October 5, 2021 • 54 mins
Only one superwoman could keep the cast of The Office on track for 9 years, script supervisor extraordinaire Veda Semarne. She explains the complex charts and graphs it took to keep every detail of the show organized (especially the Yankee Swap episode), the difficulties of being a department of one, and even sings us a lullaby.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
My name is Veda Samarne, and I was the script
supervisor on The Office. Welcome, welcome, one and all to
the Office deep Dive. It is nice to be back
with you all on this fine Tuesday or whatever day
(00:25):
you happen to be listening. I am your host, Brian Baumgartner.
Today we're wrapping up our little mini deep dive on
the women of the Office with a woman who was
truly the glue of our show. She kept everything together,
our script supervisor, Veda somarn. This is someone I respect
(00:48):
and admire so much. Okay, she was with us on
set every single day making sure that we did our
jobs and set our lines and that the director, the
editor and the writers all got what they needed to
make a great show as well. And so how was
she repaid? Well, she was repaid by the cast with
(01:11):
groans with eye rolls, because when we were having fun
shooting on set, when Veda came in, Oh, well it's
because we did something wrong. Oh that's how we repaid her.
But I really do I love her and Veda and
I we had a special connection because Kevin's car on
(01:36):
the show was actually Vedas car in real life. Yeah,
remember Kevin's fuzzy steering wheel cover. Now that that's all
Veda think of this, the simple task of keeping the
entire cast on track, helping everyone with lines, marking every take,
supporting the director, editors, actors, props, wardrobe all at the
(01:59):
same time. She even made sure all of the clocks
and watches were set to the same time. Yeah, yeah,
that was all her too. Now, when we spoke all
the way back in February, she was working on Steve
Correll and Greg Daniels show Space Force with lots of
(02:19):
other office cast and crew, so she was getting to
hang out with that crew almost every day in that moment.
Lucky her, and well, lucky you, because now you get
to listen to my conversation with the incomparable Vada Samarn
(02:44):
Bubble and Squeak. I love it, Bubble and squeakan Bubble
and Squeaker Cookie every month left over from the night before.
(03:07):
Oh my god, how are you so good to see you?
Oh my gosh, I know it's been so long. Oh
right there, right, yeah, right by that Mike, He'll come. Okay,
it's always so fun to see people from the office.
It's well, you were just working with a bunch of them. Yeah,
(03:28):
that was a really cool experience to be back with,
you know, Steve bunch of us, Dave Rogers. Yeah, it
was very cool. Yeah is that that? Wait? Who is it? Well?
Ka um, do you still have the RAB four? No?
(03:51):
Oh gosh, okay. So you know, I remember a good
story about that, you know, because the prop department always
had to change my license plate right right to make
in Pennsylvania. And I once drove home with the Pennsylvania plates,
I remember, and I got home, I thought, oh my god,
that's not good, is it? You know? And then and
then of course I didn't know how to get them off,
(04:11):
so I had to drive back the next morning with
them on. But it doesn't reflect well on the prop department,
you know, they had. But also I remember there were
all these stickers all over it that were like Pennsylvania
stickers that I had. I just left on because Kevin
was always there, so my car was always right there.
(04:32):
And it's that's that's another continuity thing that I thought of,
you know, like the car continuity. There were so many
weird kinds of continuity, right all right, So first, how
did you get hooked in? Was it through Ken Kappas.
I had done a movie with him. I did a
movie that he wrote called Sexual Life, So I knew
(04:53):
him from that, and he knew I was smart and
that you know, I could figure stuff out, and you
know that this show was going to require someone who
could figure yourself out? Right, And you came in Diversity
day right, Yes, that's the second episode. Yes, yes, yes,
they didn't do the pilot. I never met the person
who did the pilot, but no, I did every other
(05:15):
episode after that though. I just stuck with it. I mean,
why wouldn't. I mean, it's the best show to work
on the way the show was shot. Was that more
difficult for you? In other words, like there are no marks,
so much improving that would affect you a lot too. Yes,
it made my job completely different. I had to reinvent it.
(05:38):
I think everyone did, you know, in their own job,
their own department, and their own capacity. They had to
reinvent what they normally do. You have to throw it
out the window and start all over again. Because this
was really different. At the beginning, no one was allowed
on set. None of the crew members remember that. Because
(05:59):
the idea was that it was going to feel like
a real office and you guys were going to get
acquainted with the space and feel like you were home
when you were there, so that you would feel free
to do whatever. So the way that affected me was
humongous because first of all, I had to be in
the green room with the writer the entire I think
(06:23):
it was two or three seasons we did. So I
was outside the main office. I was outside the door,
and so between takes we both have to run in,
I mean literally run in to give our notes. And
the no slating meant that I had to reinvent the
way I did my notes because I had to be
(06:45):
able to signal to the editors where all the good
parts were. So I had to use time code instead
of slates to separate out each part of it. So
I had to create a new way of doing the notes.
This was at the beginning. Later on I got a
little bit more traditional, a little bit more, but at
the beginning it was totally new. Um, you would just
(07:08):
slate the scene and the camera would just keep rolling,
and a lot of what was on the camera was
just the cameras sitting on the ground and feet walking by.
So they had to use my notes literally to find
the takes. And to find the coverage. Like I'd say, here,
the camera's going wide now, so we're going to get
a three shot of the accounting department. And then now
(07:32):
and this take we got a close up of Kevin,
and this take we got a close up evangel and
this take we got a close up of Oscar. You know,
it's like every take was a different piece of coverage
or you know, a continuity there was. There was so
much continuity. But luckily everyone was on top of it,
so it wasn't just me, but I was definitely needed.
I needed to track so much because you know, the
(07:54):
episodes would take the place in the course of a day,
so it all had to make sense right right right,
like what was on even what was on people's desks
or because things would changed through the course of the day. Yeah,
and if we were going backwards or write Office Olympics,
you know, like which games had been played? You know,
(08:15):
you had to know at every moment we tried to
shoot in order. Usually we had to know which games
have been played to know what each part of the
office looked like. There was a lot too, you know,
I had to have like special charts for everything, like
what else well for example, the clock was always in
the shot and it didn't run we'd said it. But
(08:39):
when I prepped for each episode, I had to assign
a time to each scene so that the set decorator
could just take that list and set the clock, and
they had. We realized after the first couple of shows
that we had to set it for every scene, no
matter what, because you never knew what the camera was
going to capture. I remember in the the Hot Girl
(09:00):
episode when they were buying purses, you know, I had
to keep track. That's another one. I had to keep
track of what purse was on what desk at what time,
like who bought what. And I remember very distinctly this
was the moment I realized that we had to be
so careful about continuity. We had to make sure the
whole office was correct for every scene because we were
(09:26):
shooting a close up of Dwight, and I remember Randall
just suddenly went around to the other side of Dwight
so you could see Katie in the background Amy Adams,
you know, and you could suddenly see that he had
the purse that he bought later on his desk, and
so of course I had to run in No, that's
not there yet. But that's when I realized, no, we
(09:49):
can't leave anything out. You know, everything has to be
correct for every moment because I don't know where the
what the cameras are gonna see. Yes, I remember you
with the clock and with the watches on people's risk,
and I said later and I have used this sense
that the greatest decision that I ever unwittingly made was
(10:13):
that Kevin did not, Thank God, because having to adjust
that watch every scene and the clock. You're right, well,
the watches. I got a little more easy going about
the watches. I decided only if someone was going to
be camera, because that, yeah, there was enough for us
(10:35):
to worry about. There was so much, Right, who does
the script supervisor serve? Well, the script supervisor is a
department of one, so you're your own boss. Yes, it's
really hard to manage. I remember that if there was
a Kelly line about how she was, she was a
(10:56):
department of one and her department was so hard to manage.
Let's have that applied to script supervisors. Right. But in
terms of I guess, I don't know. It's so interesting
to me, like in terms of you know, you're talking
about needing to do stuff for the editors. You've got
writers chirping at you, telling you you know that they
(11:19):
want lines set a certain way. You serve them all.
I mean, you production. You keep track of a lot
of information about the scripts, and you know how much
is shot, how much remains. You keep track of all
the scenes and you know if anything's missing you tell
them right away, or you keep track of scenes and
what um the director or the writers want to include
(11:43):
in the cut. For the editor and for the For
the actors, you're helping them with lines. Sometimes they don't
treat it as help, but you basically are helping them
remember their lines. And you work for the writers in
the sense that you're trying to make sure this script
is properly shot, and then all the lines are as written,
(12:04):
especially on the office because I mean, let's face it,
it was like Shakespeare. The lines were beautiful. Yeah, they
had to be said exactly as written at least once
or twice, just because they were so beautifully written. It
just had to be that way. So I was a
real I was a real stickler for the burbage, you
know the people. Yeah, people would cower when I came
(12:28):
towards them. If they had like a whole paragraph that
they had to say. They would be so nervous that
I was going to tell them they were doing it
all wrong. But you know, for the most part, I
just wanted the comedy to be for it to be
as funny as it possibly could be. Right. I want
to talk about that a little bit, that relationship between
the actors and you on the show, Like did you
(12:51):
did you feel comfortable with everybody like Rain for example,
Like Rain would give you hell. I loved him, you know,
I loved everybody. It was everybody had a different way.
You know. I think a lot of actors just they
wanted to be so perfect that they get frustrated and
and sometimes they take it out on me a little bit,
but I don't really take it personally, and I know
(13:13):
there's a lot of pressure on them. You were very,
very skilled at that, particularly when we were in the
conference room, and I just recall at times, you know,
being in between a take and there being a kind
of pause that when you're inside the conference room, you
(13:35):
weren't quite sure what was happening, Like it felt like
nothing was happening, and then you would turn the corner
and it would be like, oh, somebody's getting it now,
somebody is getting it from Beta. Um. But I think
it was all truly it felt like everybody was working
(13:56):
to try to make it the best show that that was.
That was so lovely and unusual about that show, Like
I mean, for nine years, I was excited to go
to work. I got up, I was happy that I
was going to see the scenes I was going to
see that day, and I was so excited to see
everybody at work, you know, every day. So and I
(14:18):
think everyone felt that way. We all loved it so much.
We wanted it to be as good as possible. So
sometimes it took, you know, a little bit of bullying,
you know, to get some Sometimes people would argue with
me about lines. Well, I would make them say, like
every article, every little word, because I could feel the
(14:39):
rhythm of the line, like I knew how the line
was supposed to sound, It was in my head. So
I just ignored when people thought I was crazy because
I knew I was right. And it quite often the
line would get a laugh after they added that tiny
little word like a just like one little word could
(15:01):
make all the difference on that show. I've never seen
that at any other show. How much after you handed
in your note, were you in dialogue with Dave Rogers
or Claire or Dean or not really like once because
you're shooting the next That absolutely was because they were
right there. They were in the next building, which is
(15:21):
such a luxury because that doesn't happen very often. So
I could go over there at lunchtime or between scenes
and say, you know, here's what's happening. A lot of
times I would have to talk to them about the director,
because we had a different director for each episode almost,
you know, and so many newcomers who were experienced directors,
but they had never worked on the show before, so
(15:43):
sometimes I thought they weren't quite getting it right. So
I'd go and talk to Dave, and what do you
think about what we shot yesterday? Does it is this
director getting it? Is there any way that I could
kind of nudge them in one direction or another? And
sometimes you'd say, you just get more reaction shots, get
tons of reactions for this episode because I'm going to
(16:04):
really need them, or or they'd say, you know, you're
not the director is not getting enough angles. I need
more angles to be able to pace the scene the
way I need to pace it because that was a
big thing for them, pacing for the comedy. I remember
some instances, but I want to talk to you about
(16:24):
how you were tracking not just continuity within an episode,
but also continuity within relationships that spanned marks. Right, I was,
and Um sometimes that was very difficult. Well, first of all,
I didn't always know what or remember like what parts
(16:47):
of the script had ended up in the final cut,
because it was half of it basically would be in
the final cut, so I didn't always remember what had
actually aired. And then if something stated in season two
and then in season five we revisited that idea, sometimes
(17:08):
I wouldn't remember that we'd already said something about that.
I'll give you an example, like um, who started at
dunder Mifflin first, Pam or Jim. That was a big
issue that the fans noticed because early on we said
it was Pham, I believe, and then later on we
said Jim had been there or the eye. I don't
(17:29):
remember which round it was. But it was years, literally
years later, that we addressed it again and contradicted ourselves.
And that was you know, I would catch those things
quite often, but I couldn't catch all of them. It
was just too hard. There were two characters and yeah,
and they all had their own stories with different relationships.
(17:52):
There was some question about like how many kids did
Meredith actually have? Was it one or two? Because she
says when she's being described to Michael when he's trying
to write a funny message on her birthday card season
the second season, for the first season, thinking they say
(18:12):
she has two kids, and then later she only had one.
So then I think it was in a webisode that
we addressed that issue and why she wouldn't talk about
the other kid, right, right, right, And I think that
was the other thing I remember Greg talking about, which was, yeah,
the webisodes. Was that a part of the history of
(18:35):
the show too, or was it just the episodes or
was it everything we shot? Like, yeah, there's a lot
to keep track of, ye, and the writers had to
try to keep it all in their heads too, you know.
So hopefully with everybody thinking about it, most of the
problems got addressed. But I'm sure, you know, I'm sure
(18:55):
there are things that the fans are still finding little nuggets.
So so you would take the script and you would
break it, So tell me, like the process of what
how you would break down a script. Well, I would
do that on the weekends. I would take the script
and um for each scene, I would you know, note
for myself the significant things that happened for each character
(19:17):
and each scene, and then what time of day that was,
so that I would be able to create like a
story flow for myself. After the first season, I believe
there was almost always a beast story as well, So
I would separate out the A the B. Sometimes there
(19:38):
was a C story, and I'd color code them so
that I'd see each story separately and how it developed
over the course of the day. So like you're tracking,
say if Michael and Carol have something this episode, and
Jim and Pam or you know, Darryl and Gim or something, right,
you're tracking all like the middle of the day, they're
(20:01):
not speaking to each other, you know, then I know that,
you know, Okay, that's that's about four hours into the day.
And then a couple of hours later something happens that
makes them bond again, and yeah, that that. I was
definitely tracking that kind of thing, and I would get
a lot of questions about that from the actors. Yes,
like when is this happening. We're shooting scenes out of order. Yeah,
(20:23):
and I when did I get angry? Yes? Right? Am
I building up to it now? Or has it already happened? Right?
So you have this chart, and I'm fascinated about this.
So are you Once actors get in wardrobe, if the
wardrobe is changing, does that get added to your chart?
I mean, every department keeps their own continuity, so I'm
(20:47):
just really checking it. Right. The Yankee swap episode must
be the most complicated and difficult. You know, when does
Phillis have the mit? She gives it to Michael and
when we're shooting scenes out of order? Who has it?
What are they doing with it? Yeah? I definitely had
to have a very clear chart of that. I remember
(21:10):
Mike Sure and I were in the green room for
that because that was when we still were not allowed
on set. And I remember he we had so many
charts on the walls, and one of the charts was
his tally of how many times he had to run
in each day. I still have that, Oh my gosh,
(21:31):
you do. I kept that document? Oh my god, like
how many times he had to run in that? It's
really funny on an episode of my episode basis, you're
(21:59):
a department of one so you serve yourself and you're
served by yourself. But are you like, who are you
working closest with on a week day? Is that the writers?
Is that the director or is it usually the director?
But I mean the director and the actors. But um,
on the office, the writer was very involved, so that
(22:22):
that was I also worked very closely with the writers.
That isn't always the case on comedies. Usually the writer
comes to set, but quite often they'll send a writer
to supervise the writing for them. You know, there will
be like a designated writer who's on set, but on
(22:43):
the office it was usually the writer of the episode
would be on set. Did you have any special secrets
or ways that you dealt with any of the particular
actors on set? I mean your relationship with each actor
is to front. Well, there were different ways I would
have to phrase things like would you try one where
(23:07):
you say it this way? Or you know, with you,
I would just say, you know, here's the line in
the script. You know, there wasn't a lot of attitude there,
so you would just you just say, okay, but I
want to say this way. You know, we would just
negotiating and it would be quick. There would be some negotiation, yes, okay,
(23:28):
but sometimes I would have to word things carefully because
and I remember once I told one of the actors, um,
it's funnier this way, and I realized, no, I can't
say it that way because he got so mad at me.
Don't tell me what's funny. Yeah. I mean that's the
thing is that I imagine on some shows there would
(23:52):
be a level of defensiveness or like, I don't feel
like we had that. I feel like every but he
was trying very hard. Yeah. Yeah, everybody wanted it to
be funny and want you know, I felt like there
was an understanding. They knew that I was saying something
because I thought it would improve their line or improve
(24:13):
the scene. Yes, it wasn't. It wasn't ever personal for me,
so I think I think for the most part, people
were really nice to me. I think people it was
more I just remember fondly. Actually, I don't know if
you felt that way, but I remember just a very
you know, almost like family like when again, like when
(24:35):
you would turn the corner, it would be like, oh no,
here's dah oh boy. Um No, it was fun. It
was frustrating to me that I couldn't prompt lines because
I just was usually too far away. My voice doesn't
care very well, and people would end up just laughing
(24:58):
when they asked for a line because they couldn't hear it.
That's exactly right, so frustrating for me. I mean, I've
always I liked prompting lines. I try to do it
in a timely fashion. But I don't know if you remember.
After a while we asked the stand ins Steven Socks
and that's right, Ray Socks, to be on lines if
it was a long scene. They would kind of crouch
(25:20):
somewhere closer and just be how was that came from me?
Because I said, you know, it's really not on this show.
I really can't be on the lines all the time.
So we set up that system where Laura and Stephen
would sit in the room and just give lines really quickly,
because that's what you need when you're an actor, right,
you need to hear the line just really quickly so
(25:41):
you can stick with the momentum of the scene, right,
so it doesn't you don't lose this scene. I do,
I do remember, though Again I don't know why every
all my memories go back to the conference room, but
just being in the conference room, someone going well, what
is it? What's the line? And you hear and then
(26:04):
everyone just laughing because there was just no embarrassed there
was no way to hear. Um. How difficult was it
to track all of the improv stuff that happened, Well,
I couldn't really track it. I mean I would just say, okay, here,
this is a big chunk of improv, and I try
(26:25):
to describe to the editor what was happening in that section,
and and I tried to make sure there were points
where they could cut in and out of the improv sections.
And that was all I could really do, just make
sure that everything up to the improv matched and everything
coming out of it, man, and that there were angles
to cut two in case they needed to cut out
(26:46):
of it. So I had always encouraged that we got
reaction shots. That was a big deal to get a
reaction passed, yeah, which would give just cut natural cutaway
points through anything. Kevin, Yes, Um, in terms of unscripted
stuff or even physical gestures. I'm sure that you had
(27:09):
an instinct at least eventually like, oh, well that's going
to be in the show. The example that I'm thinking
about is gay witch hunt so Oscar or Michael going
and kissing Oscar. Yeah, that would be in the show. Yes, yeah,
How do you signal that out or does that become
(27:29):
a specific thing that you add in to the script
for the editor or my script is always the official script.
It represents what was shot. So I cross out things
that we don't shoot, and I'll add things that we
do shoot if they're not in the script. So definitely,
I'll I'll write that in. So I put this in
(27:51):
this take, Michael kisses Oscar. Every director and the writer
love that. Use it if you can, you know, oh
those things. Yeah, but yeah, I did after a while
know what which takes we're going to be in the show,
Which takes we're gonna be looked at the most closely.
And you know, I knew what Dave would choose when
(28:12):
I saw the show. You know, at the end of
the week, I would recognize the takes that he chose.
I think I I knew he was going to pick
that one after a while. Yeah, Like it's the the
family thing. I mean, you just know people's taste, you
know how they work, you know, you know you know
(28:32):
each other so well after a while. I mean, Greg
obviously you are working closely with him when he's writing
on set, when he's directing. How much communication do you
have with him about your job specifically? It was just
when he was on set, really when he was directing, particularly,
and he would interact with me a lot, and then
(28:54):
he I think that's when people find out what my
job is when they something. Were there any particular relationships
with directors that you felt like you worked really well
with and and and that working relationship maturities the show? Well,
I think well, always when the writer directed their own episode,
(29:16):
there was a real understanding because I always really appreciated
the scripts. The scripts were so good, you know, um,
and I think that they felt there was a lot
of support coming from me because I wanted the script
shot properly, and sometimes um, I could help a little
bit with the angles and the you know, the way
(29:37):
the scene was shot, because I knew what we would
traditionally do with a scene like that, you know. So
I always enjoyed working with Ken Koppas and Paul fig
and um Ken Whittingham, and there were certain directors that
would keep coming back and then I would love to
work with. It was funny on the office, particularly on
(29:59):
that show. After a few years, we felt like we
knew how to make the show, and we felt like
we didn't even need a director. So the director would
come on and they would be guided by all of us,
and sometimes, um, we would wonder about how they were
(30:23):
shooting something. I remember when time a scene was shot,
it was a scene in the parking lot. We were
shooting it from an angle that I thought wasn't that
right angle for the show, But that was just from
what was in my head when I read it. Well,
the next week we came back and reshot it from
the other angle. I didn't I hadn't said anything because
(30:47):
I felt like it wasn't really my place. I mean,
the director and that DP were were decided to shoot
it from the other side, but I thought, that's not
how this is supposed to be shot. So sometimes, you know,
there was a real feeling that the crew knew the set,
knew the characters, knew the scripts better than anyone else,
(31:08):
and so the director would just bring in a few
interesting ideas that would shake it up a little, which
was good because it never became formulaic. For that reason,
I think because we had so many new directors all
the time, Yeah, Well, here's some names. Randall Einhorn, Matt Son,
(31:29):
John Krasinski, me Um, I believe, Steve Carrell, Claire Scanlon,
Dave Rogers all directed. I'm sure I'm missing some, but
all directed on the Office for the first time. How
was that for you? Working with inexperienced people, but people
(31:54):
who knew the show so well? Did that present specific challenges? Yes?
I no, I mean it. Um. When we had a
like a famous director coming in, it was always exciting,
but it was always that was more of a challenge
because they didn't always get the show and it was
(32:16):
hard to politely steer them in the right direction. Um.
When it was somebody who was working on the show already,
that problem was already solved. They got the show, they
knew what the human they knew the humor, they knew,
they knew the characters, they knew the spaces that we
generally worked in, and they knew how to make the show. Um.
(32:40):
But sometimes they didn't know how to direct, um, just
because they hadn't done it before, and sometimes they didn't
realize all the different things that were their responsibilities. And
because we all knew how to make the show, we
would often pick up the slack and we would do
part of the director's job. And um, that was sometimes
(33:03):
difficult because we all had so much to do already.
To have to, you know, help someone out when they
don't even realize you're helping them out, that was kind
of hard. Sometimes interesting. Yeah, I mean you had all
people just trying to direct this show, but the diverse
(33:26):
range of experiences. You know, you've got editors. You've got
Dave Rogers and Claire Scanlon who presumably have never dealt
with actors before, but they knew what shots they need,
they knew what shots they needed. And then you've got
Randall and Matt who again don't really know how to
deal with actors, but they know where that camera is.
(33:49):
Whereas you know, actors, I knew how I wanted it
to look, but don't talk to me about lenses, right,
or like what lens we're going to use, you know,
So it's like coming at it from just different perspectives.
I just think it's very interesting. I mean, every director
has their strengths and weaknesses. But um, but when you'd
get someone like Ken Kappas, you know, it would go
(34:13):
really smoothly because not only did he understand the show
and know how to make the show. But he also
knew all the aspects of directing and what everyone was
expecting from him, So that was always the best for
me when it was somebody like that. But um, but
I know, I really, you know, wanted to support everybody. So,
(34:35):
you know, everybody who directed I, you know, I felt
like they were bringing a lot of new things to
the table and some things they just weren't that aware
of yet. But you know, like some directors would you know,
like an actor directing would be very aware of the acting,
would be very often very aware of what would make
the scene funny, which was great, but they might not
(34:58):
be aware of the angles and different kinds of coverage
that we needed and the lighting or something, you know,
so they wouldn't work with those departments, so that those
departments would have to jump in and pick up the slack.
(35:32):
Michael's search for family, you know, ends up being his
you know, his his major journey through the show. Do
you have any specific recollections or memories about about that?
About a man who had nobody All he wanted was
somebody He used the office as as that somebody, and
(35:55):
then eventually finding love and going away well, it was
what kept me hooked on his character the whole time.
I was always so interested to see what Steve would
do with each new situation. What I kept wanting to
find out, what I was so fascinated with every day,
(36:16):
was to see how the scenes would play out, because
I when I read the script and studied it over
the weekend, I always had very specific ideas about how
it would look. I mean I could see the whole
the whole episode in my head. So I guess what,
you know, it's just like a personal fascination with you know,
is is that the way it's going to look? Or
(36:38):
is it is there going to be something different about
it than I haven't imagined yet. It was just fascinating
see to see how the actors would play out the
scenes and how they'd say the lines, because I would
love the lines and I would want to hear them,
and I could hear like I could hear your voice
(36:59):
in my head. I could here you know, Michael's voice,
Jim's voice. You know, I knew how the how they
generally delivered their lines, but I always wanted to hear
how these specific lines were going to sound. So as
far as you know, the character arc and the journey.
I always felt like I was just an observer and
(37:19):
that you know, and the writers were always coming up
with interesting new twists. Right, here's a question. I have
been asking people, what were you afraid of missing more
Steve or Michael Scott. Oh? Well, I was afraid that
(37:40):
without Michael Scott the show wouldn't work. And it did work.
So I was proud of us that we managed to
make it work. But I knew personally that I would
miss Steve terribly, that my heart would ache, that I
wouldn't just miss seeing him. And it's hard for a crew,
(38:03):
you know, when you get close to actors, because you
can't just go over their house, you know, you can't
just call them up and say you want to have
a drink, you know, because it's a different kind of relationship,
it's a work relationship. So you know, I've I knew
I would miss him. Yeah, as a person, you know,
just miss seeing him. Well, and you this is sort
(38:26):
of occurring to me, but you know, for seven years
he had the most to say, so you were you
definitely had the bulk of your work with with him.
He had long speeches too, which he could memorize so fast.
No one's amazed me. But I would help him. Yeah.
(38:47):
He would always warn me. You know, I'm going to
be all over the place with this, you know. So um,
I would just tell him if I thought something wasn't working,
or if he was leaving something out, or you know,
he needed to say something a little differently. But for
the most part, he just let him do his thing.
(39:07):
Was he always receptive to you? Well, he was so sweet,
you know he Um, Yes, he was always receptive because
he knew I I had a concern. You know. It
wasn't just I wasn't just trying to wield my power
or something, you know. I actually it was genuine. He
knew that. So we do have a picture we took though,
(39:30):
we posed where Steve is going like this kind of
like who wants to push me away? And I'm trying
to give him a line, because that's the general feeling
when the script supervisor gives lines that you know they're
nagging you. Did you ever feel like Toby? Toby pretty
(39:52):
much always well, something I don't know, because my you know,
this was a second career for me. I was I
was an academic first and I and I was a
professor and or history right, and you know, film stuff,
film history, film studies, and so my approach was always
very sort of academic. You know, this line is you know,
(40:13):
and I think I'm might nitpick a little because I
don't always have the perspective on it. You know, maybe
this isn't that important, but you know I try to
every script sour for us tries to judge very clear
clearly in their mind. You know, is this important enough
for me to interrupt things to for me to throw
(40:34):
you know, you don't want to throw the actors off.
You don't want to give them stuff to think about.
You want them to do their thing. But um, I
mean as far as continuity goes, or lines or any
of any of that, it's it's never perfect. There's always
something you can correct, but you have to try to
be smart about what to correct and what to just leave.
(40:57):
Because you don't want people to feel like they have
to pay attention to the lines. You want them to
pay attention to the acting or there. You don't want
them to suddenly start paying attention to like where their
arms are, you know, So I'd really try to correct
people to add to a minimum. I try to keep
it to a minimum because in my job there is
(41:19):
a certain nerdiness. You know, you tend to be very
attuned to the details, and you don't always see the
big picture. So, you know, I try to pay attention
to the directors and to you know, how they're dealing
with the actors. If they're not giving notes, I'm not
going to go in and give a note because there's
a reason they're not giving them yet. They're trying to
(41:40):
let the actor find something. And over the years, I
think I've gotten more and more sensitive to that. What
was it like working with Steve as a director? The
last episode he directed is the one he proposes to Holly.
What was it like working so smart? You know? It
made it pretty easy because he was so nice, so smart,
(42:02):
so savvy about the show. He was a great director
to have. Yeah, Towards the end, he had this idea
that he wanted Threat Level Midnight to be seen on
the show. Talk to me a little bit about the
challenge of attempting to piece together and and find the
(42:24):
continuity of this movie that was possibly shot. Well, the
thing about that was that it was supposed to be goofy.
We were doing contnuity for Threat Little Lettle Midnight, there
was going to be something that didn't have continuity. But
that's a tricky thing because I remember when I first
got hired to do the show. I remember Ken Quaba saying,
(42:45):
we're you know, we're not going to worry about continuity
because it's a documentary. The documentarians can make mistakes, but
that only works on certain levels. That works on the
level of on the cutting level, Like if if the
documentarian cut in two different pieces of a take cut
them together in an awkward way, that would be okay.
(43:08):
But you can't cut together two takes that don't match,
because then you're implying that this thing happened twice and
it only happened once, you know what I mean. So
if there has to be a reality to it that
you know, um, so that conuity is actually very important
(43:28):
in the end and not something I could ignore. And
you didn't want to imply that The documentarians were saying, Okay,
do this again, you know, but do it a little differently,
because they were just supposed to be shooting discreetly, you know,
and not controlling what was happening. They were all kinds
(43:49):
of new, new kinds of continuity that I hadn't really
thought about before, Like if somebody was out of the office,
their jacket couldn't be on their chair because they were
wearing it, right, So you'd have to, you know, look
at sort of the the opposite side of the community.
What what shouldn't be there? Right in the parking lot,
(44:11):
it was the same way, what cars should be there
and what cars shouldn't be there. We have to always
think about that. Well, the most important car was your
actual yes, right, that was Kevin's Carns car for a
long time. Do you remember when it first got established?
It was right away it was like, yeah, yeah, the
(44:33):
first season. Yeah, I drove it quite a few times
in the end, Yes, in front of Holloway when she's
impressed with me sort of most notably, um, yeah, I
remember thinking, you know, she's so impressed that I'm driving
the car. And I remember having this idea of just
(44:57):
driving it straight over the curve just like and just
plowing right. And then I thought, the greatest car. I
think I won't I think I won't do that. Yeah,
but I I always remember Rap four. Oh it wasn't
the Rap four. It was CRVRV. First I forgot, yes,
(45:20):
but now it was do you remember there was like
this fuzzy tiger striped cover over the wheel, over the wheel. Yeah,
after a couple of years, my husband bought that for
me because steering wheill get cold. But I remember at
the production meeting, John was directing the episode where you
(45:40):
were driving the car, and I asked him I should
should I take off the fuzzy steering wheel cover, and
he said, I would never ask you to do that.
I would never ask you to take off something like that. No,
that if that's on your car, you leave that. That's
so great. And we all got a little bump on
our paycheck if we have are I think it was
like five dollars that you got if your car was
(46:02):
in a scene, and they just kept a tally of
how many times your car was in a scene, and
you'd get a little bumped for that. Really do you
get residuals? Get residuals. But the car was in a
lot of shots, a lot of shots. No, it was
(46:39):
was the office. Um, your acting debut. Well I was
only in that last Yeah, I was in that last episode.
And yes, that was your acting debut. Any memories about
being on set in front of the camera. I was
always so nervous. I'm really shy, so that was not
comfortable for me. But I like that we were all
(47:01):
you know that a lot of us were in that
final episode, but it was I didn't want to have
a line or anything. What do you remember going into
the finale? Did you feel like it was time for
it to be over. I didn't want it to be
over personally. I would have liked to just work on
(47:21):
that show for the rest of my career. But um,
I felt like it was smart to decide when your
show is going to end and wrap it up beautifully
instead of just ending it suddenly. But it was so sad.
It was just hard for all of us. I think, Yeah,
(47:42):
what was it do you think about the show that?
I mean, obviously, it's a job, and in our industry,
like having a job and a good job is is
a blessing. But it felt different. There was something about it.
It felt special. Yes, definitely. There was a lot of love.
You know, there was a lot of um caring for
(48:04):
the show, caring for each other. It was a good
environment and you know, even though it was very tiring,
we were all exhausted, it felt good to do that
job and to be there every day. It was hard
to imagine not having that, and I really never have
found a show where I feel that way. So I
(48:26):
was right to be sad because it really was something
that I was losing. I mean, I've enjoyed shows I've
worked on since then, but never I never felt that
warmth and that camaraderie in anything else. We were all
we all laughed so much that sometimes it was hard
to finish a scene. And I had to put that
(48:49):
in my notes because you know, I'd say this scene
was great up until they all broke. That was something
the editors would mention to me sometimes, you know, I
can't cut this, it's like somebody's breaking in every take.
But then also the crew we had to you know,
we couldn't laugh out loud, and that is hard to
do sometimes, especially if you're in that little talking head
(49:12):
room and you're sitting right in front of the actor.
There were times when I had to actually leave the room.
But that was one thing that made it great to
be there every day, because you would there was so
much that was so funny. There was so much laughter. Um,
talk to me about this German lullaby oh that appeared
(49:34):
in the show that was in Mindy's something, Mindy road right,
Mindy Kaylenk. The episode was Night Out Dwight. It was
Dwight Dwight sings Ryan to sleep. Yeah, my mother was Viennese,
so her first language was German, and when growing up
in Vienna, they spoke German and so her mother would
(49:58):
sing her German lullaby. So when I was a child,
she sang German lullabies to me when I was falling asleep.
So I knew a couple of German lullabies. And so
I just piped up and said, you know, I because
I guess she wanted him to sing something to her. Yeah,
I said, well he could sing what my mother sang
(50:21):
to me, and I sang it for was it schlofkin
lynchlough schlaf kin lynch law mm hmm, yeah, I think
that was that. Yeah, And um, I always found it
very soothing. So so yeah, well I don't remember the
(50:41):
words right now, but I know because it starts schlaf
kin lynch lav mm hmmmmmm. I don't remember the words
at the time, I still I remembered the words where
I looked them up. Slow kin lynch law. That's very funny. Um,
(51:03):
the guys, is there anything else that I've missed here? Right? Yeah,
look at your list. I actually hear all this stuff.
Do you ever say that's what she said? I say it,
I say it. I say it around friends. I tend
(51:24):
to not draw attention to that fact, but yes, do
you say that's what she said? My husband and I
say it all the time at home. Yeah, but I
try not to say it on set anymore because I
think people do get maybe offended by it, and you know,
sets are so sensitive now about harassment and saying things
(51:46):
like that. So I don't say it on set anymore.
Just sometimes I have to say it, so I say
it to myself really quietly. Do you do you think
that this show could be made now? In this question
woke PC environment, I think it was, you know, a
(52:10):
perfect storm. It's like, you know, everything came together at
that moment, all the people involved, all the ideas, all
the um you know, the crew, that talent, it all
came together in a way that made it all work.
And I don't know if we could ever happen exactly
(52:30):
that way again. Yeah, I don't know if it has
to do with the time period or it's just the
miracle of all those personalities coming together at that moment. Yeah, Veda,
thank you so much for coming, and yeah for coming
to talk to me and your your perspective having watched
(52:52):
it all as it happened, is really delight to watch. Well, Vada,
what a delight you are. And thank you for speaking
(53:15):
with me. What a true pleasure to have you in.
That's what she said. Uh, and thank you listeners for
joining in. Join us again next week please for another
riveting conversation, and don't forget to subscribe and leave us
comments on on whatever podcast platform you see fit. Have
(53:38):
a great week. The Office Deep Dive is hosted and
executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer, Langlee.
Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer. Our producers are Emily
(53:58):
Carr and Diego Tapia. Our social media producer is Liz Hayes.
My main man in the booth is Alec Moore. Our
theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by my great friend
Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed by Seth Oladsky
My name is Veda Samarne, and I was the script
supervisor on The Office. Welcome, welcome, one and all to
the Office deep Dive. It is nice to be back
with you all on this fine Tuesday or whatever day
(00:25):
you happen to be listening. I am your host, Brian Baumgartner.
Today we're wrapping up our little mini deep dive on
the women of the Office with a woman who was
truly the glue of our show. She kept everything together,
our script supervisor, Veda somarn. This is someone I respect
(00:48):
and admire so much. Okay, she was with us on
set every single day making sure that we did our
jobs and set our lines and that the director, the
editor and the writers all got what they needed to
make a great show as well. And so how was
she repaid? Well, she was repaid by the cast with
(01:11):
groans with eye rolls, because when we were having fun
shooting on set, when Veda came in, Oh, well it's
because we did something wrong. Oh that's how we repaid her.
But I really do I love her and Veda and
I we had a special connection because Kevin's car on
(01:36):
the show was actually Vedas car in real life. Yeah,
remember Kevin's fuzzy steering wheel cover. Now that that's all
Veda think of this, the simple task of keeping the
entire cast on track, helping everyone with lines, marking every take,
supporting the director, editors, actors, props, wardrobe all at the
(01:59):
same time. She even made sure all of the clocks
and watches were set to the same time. Yeah, yeah,
that was all her too. Now, when we spoke all
the way back in February, she was working on Steve
Correll and Greg Daniels show Space Force with lots of
(02:19):
other office cast and crew, so she was getting to
hang out with that crew almost every day in that moment.
Lucky her, and well, lucky you, because now you get
to listen to my conversation with the incomparable Vada Samarn
(02:44):
Bubble and Squeak. I love it, Bubble and squeakan Bubble
and Squeaker Cookie every month left over from the night before.
(03:07):
Oh my god, how are you so good to see you?
Oh my gosh, I know it's been so long. Oh
right there, right, yeah, right by that Mike, He'll come. Okay,
it's always so fun to see people from the office.
It's well, you were just working with a bunch of them. Yeah,
(03:28):
that was a really cool experience to be back with,
you know, Steve bunch of us, Dave Rogers. Yeah, it
was very cool. Yeah is that that? Wait? Who is it? Well?
Ka um, do you still have the RAB four? No?
(03:51):
Oh gosh, okay. So you know, I remember a good
story about that, you know, because the prop department always
had to change my license plate right right to make
in Pennsylvania. And I once drove home with the Pennsylvania plates,
I remember, and I got home, I thought, oh my god,
that's not good, is it? You know? And then and
then of course I didn't know how to get them off,
(04:11):
so I had to drive back the next morning with
them on. But it doesn't reflect well on the prop department,
you know, they had. But also I remember there were
all these stickers all over it that were like Pennsylvania
stickers that I had. I just left on because Kevin
was always there, so my car was always right there.
(04:32):
And it's that's that's another continuity thing that I thought of,
you know, like the car continuity. There were so many
weird kinds of continuity, right all right, So first, how
did you get hooked in? Was it through Ken Kappas.
I had done a movie with him. I did a
movie that he wrote called Sexual Life, So I knew
(04:53):
him from that, and he knew I was smart and
that you know, I could figure stuff out, and you
know that this show was going to require someone who
could figure yourself out? Right, And you came in Diversity
day right, Yes, that's the second episode. Yes, yes, yes,
they didn't do the pilot. I never met the person
who did the pilot, but no, I did every other
(05:15):
episode after that though. I just stuck with it. I mean,
why wouldn't. I mean, it's the best show to work
on the way the show was shot. Was that more
difficult for you? In other words, like there are no marks,
so much improving that would affect you a lot too. Yes,
it made my job completely different. I had to reinvent it.
(05:38):
I think everyone did, you know, in their own job,
their own department, and their own capacity. They had to
reinvent what they normally do. You have to throw it
out the window and start all over again. Because this
was really different. At the beginning, no one was allowed
on set. None of the crew members remember that. Because
(05:59):
the idea was that it was going to feel like
a real office and you guys were going to get
acquainted with the space and feel like you were home
when you were there, so that you would feel free
to do whatever. So the way that affected me was
humongous because first of all, I had to be in
the green room with the writer the entire I think
(06:23):
it was two or three seasons we did. So I
was outside the main office. I was outside the door,
and so between takes we both have to run in,
I mean literally run in to give our notes. And
the no slating meant that I had to reinvent the
way I did my notes because I had to be
(06:45):
able to signal to the editors where all the good
parts were. So I had to use time code instead
of slates to separate out each part of it. So
I had to create a new way of doing the notes.
This was at the beginning. Later on I got a
little bit more traditional, a little bit more, but at
the beginning it was totally new. Um, you would just
(07:08):
slate the scene and the camera would just keep rolling,
and a lot of what was on the camera was
just the cameras sitting on the ground and feet walking by.
So they had to use my notes literally to find
the takes. And to find the coverage. Like I'd say, here,
the camera's going wide now, so we're going to get
a three shot of the accounting department. And then now
(07:32):
and this take we got a close up of Kevin,
and this take we got a close up evangel and
this take we got a close up of Oscar. You know,
it's like every take was a different piece of coverage
or you know, a continuity there was. There was so
much continuity. But luckily everyone was on top of it,
so it wasn't just me, but I was definitely needed.
I needed to track so much because you know, the
(07:54):
episodes would take the place in the course of a day,
so it all had to make sense right right right,
like what was on even what was on people's desks
or because things would changed through the course of the day. Yeah,
and if we were going backwards or write Office Olympics,
you know, like which games had been played? You know,
(08:15):
you had to know at every moment we tried to
shoot in order. Usually we had to know which games
have been played to know what each part of the
office looked like. There was a lot too, you know,
I had to have like special charts for everything, like
what else well for example, the clock was always in
the shot and it didn't run we'd said it. But
(08:39):
when I prepped for each episode, I had to assign
a time to each scene so that the set decorator
could just take that list and set the clock, and
they had. We realized after the first couple of shows
that we had to set it for every scene, no
matter what, because you never knew what the camera was
going to capture. I remember in the the Hot Girl
(09:00):
episode when they were buying purses, you know, I had
to keep track. That's another one. I had to keep
track of what purse was on what desk at what time,
like who bought what. And I remember very distinctly this
was the moment I realized that we had to be
so careful about continuity. We had to make sure the
whole office was correct for every scene because we were
(09:26):
shooting a close up of Dwight, and I remember Randall
just suddenly went around to the other side of Dwight
so you could see Katie in the background Amy Adams,
you know, and you could suddenly see that he had
the purse that he bought later on his desk, and
so of course I had to run in No, that's
not there yet. But that's when I realized, no, we
(09:49):
can't leave anything out. You know, everything has to be
correct for every moment because I don't know where the
what the cameras are gonna see. Yes, I remember you
with the clock and with the watches on people's risk,
and I said later and I have used this sense
that the greatest decision that I ever unwittingly made was
(10:13):
that Kevin did not, Thank God, because having to adjust
that watch every scene and the clock. You're right, well,
the watches. I got a little more easy going about
the watches. I decided only if someone was going to
be camera, because that, yeah, there was enough for us
(10:35):
to worry about. There was so much, Right, who does
the script supervisor serve? Well, the script supervisor is a
department of one, so you're your own boss. Yes, it's
really hard to manage. I remember that if there was
a Kelly line about how she was, she was a
(10:56):
department of one and her department was so hard to manage.
Let's have that applied to script supervisors. Right. But in
terms of I guess, I don't know. It's so interesting
to me, like in terms of you know, you're talking
about needing to do stuff for the editors. You've got
writers chirping at you, telling you you know that they
(11:19):
want lines set a certain way. You serve them all.
I mean, you production. You keep track of a lot
of information about the scripts, and you know how much
is shot, how much remains. You keep track of all
the scenes and you know if anything's missing you tell
them right away, or you keep track of scenes and
what um the director or the writers want to include
(11:43):
in the cut. For the editor and for the For
the actors, you're helping them with lines. Sometimes they don't
treat it as help, but you basically are helping them
remember their lines. And you work for the writers in
the sense that you're trying to make sure this script
is properly shot, and then all the lines are as written,
(12:04):
especially on the office because I mean, let's face it,
it was like Shakespeare. The lines were beautiful. Yeah, they
had to be said exactly as written at least once
or twice, just because they were so beautifully written. It
just had to be that way. So I was a
real I was a real stickler for the burbage, you
know the people. Yeah, people would cower when I came
(12:28):
towards them. If they had like a whole paragraph that
they had to say. They would be so nervous that
I was going to tell them they were doing it
all wrong. But you know, for the most part, I
just wanted the comedy to be for it to be
as funny as it possibly could be. Right. I want
to talk about that a little bit, that relationship between
the actors and you on the show, Like did you
(12:51):
did you feel comfortable with everybody like Rain for example,
Like Rain would give you hell. I loved him, you know,
I loved everybody. It was everybody had a different way.
You know. I think a lot of actors just they
wanted to be so perfect that they get frustrated and
and sometimes they take it out on me a little bit,
but I don't really take it personally, and I know
(13:13):
there's a lot of pressure on them. You were very,
very skilled at that, particularly when we were in the
conference room, and I just recall at times, you know,
being in between a take and there being a kind
of pause that when you're inside the conference room, you
(13:35):
weren't quite sure what was happening, Like it felt like
nothing was happening, and then you would turn the corner
and it would be like, oh, somebody's getting it now,
somebody is getting it from Beta. Um. But I think
it was all truly it felt like everybody was working
(13:56):
to try to make it the best show that that was.
That was so lovely and unusual about that show, Like
I mean, for nine years, I was excited to go
to work. I got up, I was happy that I
was going to see the scenes I was going to
see that day, and I was so excited to see
everybody at work, you know, every day. So and I
(14:18):
think everyone felt that way. We all loved it so much.
We wanted it to be as good as possible. So
sometimes it took, you know, a little bit of bullying,
you know, to get some Sometimes people would argue with
me about lines. Well, I would make them say, like
every article, every little word, because I could feel the
(14:39):
rhythm of the line, like I knew how the line
was supposed to sound, It was in my head. So
I just ignored when people thought I was crazy because
I knew I was right. And it quite often the
line would get a laugh after they added that tiny
little word like a just like one little word could
(15:01):
make all the difference on that show. I've never seen
that at any other show. How much after you handed
in your note, were you in dialogue with Dave Rogers
or Claire or Dean or not really like once because
you're shooting the next That absolutely was because they were
right there. They were in the next building, which is
(15:21):
such a luxury because that doesn't happen very often. So
I could go over there at lunchtime or between scenes
and say, you know, here's what's happening. A lot of
times I would have to talk to them about the director,
because we had a different director for each episode almost,
you know, and so many newcomers who were experienced directors,
but they had never worked on the show before, so
(15:43):
sometimes I thought they weren't quite getting it right. So
I'd go and talk to Dave, and what do you
think about what we shot yesterday? Does it is this
director getting it? Is there any way that I could
kind of nudge them in one direction or another? And
sometimes you'd say, you just get more reaction shots, get
tons of reactions for this episode because I'm going to
(16:04):
really need them, or or they'd say, you know, you're
not the director is not getting enough angles. I need
more angles to be able to pace the scene the
way I need to pace it because that was a
big thing for them, pacing for the comedy. I remember
some instances, but I want to talk to you about
(16:24):
how you were tracking not just continuity within an episode,
but also continuity within relationships that spanned marks. Right, I was,
and Um sometimes that was very difficult. Well, first of all,
I didn't always know what or remember like what parts
(16:47):
of the script had ended up in the final cut,
because it was half of it basically would be in
the final cut, so I didn't always remember what had
actually aired. And then if something stated in season two
and then in season five we revisited that idea, sometimes
(17:08):
I wouldn't remember that we'd already said something about that.
I'll give you an example, like um, who started at
dunder Mifflin first, Pam or Jim. That was a big
issue that the fans noticed because early on we said
it was Pham, I believe, and then later on we
said Jim had been there or the eye. I don't
(17:29):
remember which round it was. But it was years, literally
years later, that we addressed it again and contradicted ourselves.
And that was you know, I would catch those things
quite often, but I couldn't catch all of them. It
was just too hard. There were two characters and yeah,
and they all had their own stories with different relationships.
(17:52):
There was some question about like how many kids did
Meredith actually have? Was it one or two? Because she
says when she's being described to Michael when he's trying
to write a funny message on her birthday card season
the second season, for the first season, thinking they say
(18:12):
she has two kids, and then later she only had one.
So then I think it was in a webisode that
we addressed that issue and why she wouldn't talk about
the other kid, right, right, right, And I think that
was the other thing I remember Greg talking about, which was, yeah,
the webisodes. Was that a part of the history of
(18:35):
the show too, or was it just the episodes or
was it everything we shot? Like, yeah, there's a lot
to keep track of, ye, and the writers had to
try to keep it all in their heads too, you know.
So hopefully with everybody thinking about it, most of the
problems got addressed. But I'm sure, you know, I'm sure
(18:55):
there are things that the fans are still finding little nuggets.
So so you would take the script and you would
break it, So tell me, like the process of what
how you would break down a script. Well, I would
do that on the weekends. I would take the script
and um for each scene, I would you know, note
for myself the significant things that happened for each character
(19:17):
and each scene, and then what time of day that was,
so that I would be able to create like a
story flow for myself. After the first season, I believe
there was almost always a beast story as well, So
I would separate out the A the B. Sometimes there
(19:38):
was a C story, and I'd color code them so
that I'd see each story separately and how it developed
over the course of the day. So like you're tracking,
say if Michael and Carol have something this episode, and
Jim and Pam or you know, Darryl and Gim or something, right,
you're tracking all like the middle of the day, they're
(20:01):
not speaking to each other, you know, then I know that,
you know, Okay, that's that's about four hours into the day.
And then a couple of hours later something happens that
makes them bond again, and yeah, that that. I was
definitely tracking that kind of thing, and I would get
a lot of questions about that from the actors. Yes,
like when is this happening. We're shooting scenes out of order. Yeah,
(20:23):
and I when did I get angry? Yes? Right? Am
I building up to it now? Or has it already happened? Right?
So you have this chart, and I'm fascinated about this.
So are you Once actors get in wardrobe, if the
wardrobe is changing, does that get added to your chart?
I mean, every department keeps their own continuity, so I'm
(20:47):
just really checking it. Right. The Yankee swap episode must
be the most complicated and difficult. You know, when does
Phillis have the mit? She gives it to Michael and
when we're shooting scenes out of order? Who has it?
What are they doing with it? Yeah? I definitely had
to have a very clear chart of that. I remember
(21:10):
Mike Sure and I were in the green room for
that because that was when we still were not allowed
on set. And I remember he we had so many
charts on the walls, and one of the charts was
his tally of how many times he had to run
in each day. I still have that, Oh my gosh,
(21:31):
you do. I kept that document? Oh my god, like
how many times he had to run in that? It's
really funny on an episode of my episode basis, you're
(21:59):
a department of one so you serve yourself and you're
served by yourself. But are you like, who are you
working closest with on a week day? Is that the writers?
Is that the director or is it usually the director?
But I mean the director and the actors. But um,
on the office, the writer was very involved, so that
(22:22):
that was I also worked very closely with the writers.
That isn't always the case on comedies. Usually the writer
comes to set, but quite often they'll send a writer
to supervise the writing for them. You know, there will
be like a designated writer who's on set, but on
(22:43):
the office it was usually the writer of the episode
would be on set. Did you have any special secrets
or ways that you dealt with any of the particular
actors on set? I mean your relationship with each actor
is to front. Well, there were different ways I would
have to phrase things like would you try one where
(23:07):
you say it this way? Or you know, with you,
I would just say, you know, here's the line in
the script. You know, there wasn't a lot of attitude there,
so you would just you just say, okay, but I
want to say this way. You know, we would just
negotiating and it would be quick. There would be some negotiation, yes, okay,
(23:28):
but sometimes I would have to word things carefully because
and I remember once I told one of the actors, um,
it's funnier this way, and I realized, no, I can't
say it that way because he got so mad at me.
Don't tell me what's funny. Yeah. I mean that's the
thing is that I imagine on some shows there would
(23:52):
be a level of defensiveness or like, I don't feel
like we had that. I feel like every but he
was trying very hard. Yeah. Yeah, everybody wanted it to
be funny and want you know, I felt like there
was an understanding. They knew that I was saying something
because I thought it would improve their line or improve
(24:13):
the scene. Yes, it wasn't. It wasn't ever personal for me,
so I think I think for the most part, people
were really nice to me. I think people it was
more I just remember fondly. Actually, I don't know if
you felt that way, but I remember just a very
you know, almost like family like when again, like when
(24:35):
you would turn the corner, it would be like, oh no,
here's dah oh boy. Um No, it was fun. It
was frustrating to me that I couldn't prompt lines because
I just was usually too far away. My voice doesn't
care very well, and people would end up just laughing
(24:58):
when they asked for a line because they couldn't hear it.
That's exactly right, so frustrating for me. I mean, I've
always I liked prompting lines. I try to do it
in a timely fashion. But I don't know if you remember.
After a while we asked the stand ins Steven Socks
and that's right, Ray Socks, to be on lines if
it was a long scene. They would kind of crouch
(25:20):
somewhere closer and just be how was that came from me?
Because I said, you know, it's really not on this show.
I really can't be on the lines all the time.
So we set up that system where Laura and Stephen
would sit in the room and just give lines really quickly,
because that's what you need when you're an actor, right,
you need to hear the line just really quickly so
(25:41):
you can stick with the momentum of the scene, right,
so it doesn't you don't lose this scene. I do,
I do remember, though Again I don't know why every
all my memories go back to the conference room, but
just being in the conference room, someone going well, what
is it? What's the line? And you hear and then
(26:04):
everyone just laughing because there was just no embarrassed there
was no way to hear. Um. How difficult was it
to track all of the improv stuff that happened, Well,
I couldn't really track it. I mean I would just say, okay, here,
this is a big chunk of improv, and I try
(26:25):
to describe to the editor what was happening in that section,
and and I tried to make sure there were points
where they could cut in and out of the improv sections.
And that was all I could really do, just make
sure that everything up to the improv matched and everything
coming out of it, man, and that there were angles
to cut two in case they needed to cut out
(26:46):
of it. So I had always encouraged that we got
reaction shots. That was a big deal to get a
reaction passed, yeah, which would give just cut natural cutaway
points through anything. Kevin, Yes, Um, in terms of unscripted
stuff or even physical gestures. I'm sure that you had
(27:09):
an instinct at least eventually like, oh, well that's going
to be in the show. The example that I'm thinking
about is gay witch hunt so Oscar or Michael going
and kissing Oscar. Yeah, that would be in the show. Yes, yeah,
How do you signal that out or does that become
(27:29):
a specific thing that you add in to the script
for the editor or my script is always the official script.
It represents what was shot. So I cross out things
that we don't shoot, and I'll add things that we
do shoot if they're not in the script. So definitely,
I'll I'll write that in. So I put this in
(27:51):
this take, Michael kisses Oscar. Every director and the writer
love that. Use it if you can, you know, oh
those things. Yeah, but yeah, I did after a while
know what which takes we're going to be in the show,
Which takes we're gonna be looked at the most closely.
And you know, I knew what Dave would choose when
(28:12):
I saw the show. You know, at the end of
the week, I would recognize the takes that he chose.
I think I I knew he was going to pick
that one after a while. Yeah, Like it's the the
family thing. I mean, you just know people's taste, you
know how they work, you know, you know you know
(28:32):
each other so well after a while. I mean, Greg
obviously you are working closely with him when he's writing
on set, when he's directing. How much communication do you
have with him about your job specifically? It was just
when he was on set, really when he was directing, particularly,
and he would interact with me a lot, and then
(28:54):
he I think that's when people find out what my
job is when they something. Were there any particular relationships
with directors that you felt like you worked really well
with and and and that working relationship maturities the show? Well,
I think well, always when the writer directed their own episode,
(29:16):
there was a real understanding because I always really appreciated
the scripts. The scripts were so good, you know, um,
and I think that they felt there was a lot
of support coming from me because I wanted the script
shot properly, and sometimes um, I could help a little
bit with the angles and the you know, the way
(29:37):
the scene was shot, because I knew what we would
traditionally do with a scene like that, you know. So
I always enjoyed working with Ken Koppas and Paul fig
and um Ken Whittingham, and there were certain directors that
would keep coming back and then I would love to
work with. It was funny on the office, particularly on
(29:59):
that show. After a few years, we felt like we
knew how to make the show, and we felt like
we didn't even need a director. So the director would
come on and they would be guided by all of us,
and sometimes, um, we would wonder about how they were
(30:23):
shooting something. I remember when time a scene was shot,
it was a scene in the parking lot. We were
shooting it from an angle that I thought wasn't that
right angle for the show, But that was just from
what was in my head when I read it. Well,
the next week we came back and reshot it from
the other angle. I didn't I hadn't said anything because
(30:47):
I felt like it wasn't really my place. I mean,
the director and that DP were were decided to shoot
it from the other side, but I thought, that's not
how this is supposed to be shot. So sometimes, you know,
there was a real feeling that the crew knew the set,
knew the characters, knew the scripts better than anyone else,
(31:08):
and so the director would just bring in a few
interesting ideas that would shake it up a little, which
was good because it never became formulaic. For that reason,
I think because we had so many new directors all
the time, Yeah, Well, here's some names. Randall Einhorn, Matt Son,
(31:29):
John Krasinski, me Um, I believe, Steve Carrell, Claire Scanlon,
Dave Rogers all directed. I'm sure I'm missing some, but
all directed on the Office for the first time. How
was that for you? Working with inexperienced people, but people
(31:54):
who knew the show so well? Did that present specific challenges? Yes?
I no, I mean it. Um. When we had a
like a famous director coming in, it was always exciting,
but it was always that was more of a challenge
because they didn't always get the show and it was
(32:16):
hard to politely steer them in the right direction. Um.
When it was somebody who was working on the show already,
that problem was already solved. They got the show, they
knew what the human they knew the humor, they knew,
they knew the characters, they knew the spaces that we
generally worked in, and they knew how to make the show. Um.
(32:40):
But sometimes they didn't know how to direct, um, just
because they hadn't done it before, and sometimes they didn't
realize all the different things that were their responsibilities. And
because we all knew how to make the show, we
would often pick up the slack and we would do
part of the director's job. And um, that was sometimes
(33:03):
difficult because we all had so much to do already.
To have to, you know, help someone out when they
don't even realize you're helping them out, that was kind
of hard. Sometimes interesting. Yeah, I mean you had all
people just trying to direct this show, but the diverse
(33:26):
range of experiences. You know, you've got editors. You've got
Dave Rogers and Claire Scanlon who presumably have never dealt
with actors before, but they knew what shots they need,
they knew what shots they needed. And then you've got
Randall and Matt who again don't really know how to
deal with actors, but they know where that camera is.
(33:49):
Whereas you know, actors, I knew how I wanted it
to look, but don't talk to me about lenses, right,
or like what lens we're going to use, you know,
So it's like coming at it from just different perspectives.
I just think it's very interesting. I mean, every director
has their strengths and weaknesses. But um, but when you'd
get someone like Ken Kappas, you know, it would go
(34:13):
really smoothly because not only did he understand the show
and know how to make the show. But he also
knew all the aspects of directing and what everyone was
expecting from him, So that was always the best for
me when it was somebody like that. But um, but
I know, I really, you know, wanted to support everybody. So,
(34:35):
you know, everybody who directed I, you know, I felt
like they were bringing a lot of new things to
the table and some things they just weren't that aware
of yet. But you know, like some directors would you know,
like an actor directing would be very aware of the acting,
would be very often very aware of what would make
the scene funny, which was great, but they might not
(34:58):
be aware of the angles and different kinds of coverage
that we needed and the lighting or something, you know,
so they wouldn't work with those departments, so that those
departments would have to jump in and pick up the slack.
(35:32):
Michael's search for family, you know, ends up being his
you know, his his major journey through the show. Do
you have any specific recollections or memories about about that?
About a man who had nobody All he wanted was
somebody He used the office as as that somebody, and
(35:55):
then eventually finding love and going away well, it was
what kept me hooked on his character the whole time.
I was always so interested to see what Steve would
do with each new situation. What I kept wanting to
find out, what I was so fascinated with every day,
(36:16):
was to see how the scenes would play out, because
I when I read the script and studied it over
the weekend, I always had very specific ideas about how
it would look. I mean I could see the whole
the whole episode in my head. So I guess what,
you know, it's just like a personal fascination with you know,
is is that the way it's going to look? Or
(36:38):
is it is there going to be something different about
it than I haven't imagined yet. It was just fascinating
see to see how the actors would play out the
scenes and how they'd say the lines, because I would
love the lines and I would want to hear them,
and I could hear like I could hear your voice
(36:59):
in my head. I could here you know, Michael's voice,
Jim's voice. You know, I knew how the how they
generally delivered their lines, but I always wanted to hear
how these specific lines were going to sound. So as
far as you know, the character arc and the journey.
I always felt like I was just an observer and
(37:19):
that you know, and the writers were always coming up
with interesting new twists. Right, here's a question. I have
been asking people, what were you afraid of missing more
Steve or Michael Scott. Oh? Well, I was afraid that
(37:40):
without Michael Scott the show wouldn't work. And it did work.
So I was proud of us that we managed to
make it work. But I knew personally that I would
miss Steve terribly, that my heart would ache, that I
wouldn't just miss seeing him. And it's hard for a crew,
(38:03):
you know, when you get close to actors, because you
can't just go over their house, you know, you can't
just call them up and say you want to have
a drink, you know, because it's a different kind of relationship,
it's a work relationship. So you know, I've I knew
I would miss him. Yeah, as a person, you know,
just miss seeing him. Well, and you this is sort
(38:26):
of occurring to me, but you know, for seven years
he had the most to say, so you were you
definitely had the bulk of your work with with him.
He had long speeches too, which he could memorize so fast.
No one's amazed me. But I would help him. Yeah.
(38:47):
He would always warn me. You know, I'm going to
be all over the place with this, you know. So um,
I would just tell him if I thought something wasn't working,
or if he was leaving something out, or you know,
he needed to say something a little differently. But for
the most part, he just let him do his thing.
(39:07):
Was he always receptive to you? Well, he was so sweet,
you know he Um, Yes, he was always receptive because
he knew I I had a concern. You know. It
wasn't just I wasn't just trying to wield my power
or something, you know. I actually it was genuine. He
knew that. So we do have a picture we took though,
(39:30):
we posed where Steve is going like this kind of
like who wants to push me away? And I'm trying
to give him a line, because that's the general feeling
when the script supervisor gives lines that you know they're
nagging you. Did you ever feel like Toby? Toby pretty
(39:52):
much always well, something I don't know, because my you know,
this was a second career for me. I was I
was an academic first and I and I was a
professor and or history right, and you know, film stuff,
film history, film studies, and so my approach was always
very sort of academic. You know, this line is you know,
(40:13):
and I think I'm might nitpick a little because I
don't always have the perspective on it. You know, maybe
this isn't that important, but you know I try to
every script sour for us tries to judge very clear
clearly in their mind. You know, is this important enough
for me to interrupt things to for me to throw
(40:34):
you know, you don't want to throw the actors off.
You don't want to give them stuff to think about.
You want them to do their thing. But um, I
mean as far as continuity goes, or lines or any
of any of that, it's it's never perfect. There's always
something you can correct, but you have to try to
be smart about what to correct and what to just leave.
(40:57):
Because you don't want people to feel like they have
to pay attention to the lines. You want them to
pay attention to the acting or there. You don't want
them to suddenly start paying attention to like where their
arms are, you know, So I'd really try to correct
people to add to a minimum. I try to keep
it to a minimum because in my job there is
(41:19):
a certain nerdiness. You know, you tend to be very
attuned to the details, and you don't always see the
big picture. So, you know, I try to pay attention
to the directors and to you know, how they're dealing
with the actors. If they're not giving notes, I'm not
going to go in and give a note because there's
a reason they're not giving them yet. They're trying to
(41:40):
let the actor find something. And over the years, I
think I've gotten more and more sensitive to that. What
was it like working with Steve as a director? The
last episode he directed is the one he proposes to Holly.
What was it like working so smart? You know? It
made it pretty easy because he was so nice, so smart,
(42:02):
so savvy about the show. He was a great director
to have. Yeah, Towards the end, he had this idea
that he wanted Threat Level Midnight to be seen on
the show. Talk to me a little bit about the
challenge of attempting to piece together and and find the
(42:24):
continuity of this movie that was possibly shot. Well, the
thing about that was that it was supposed to be goofy.
We were doing contnuity for Threat Little Lettle Midnight, there
was going to be something that didn't have continuity. But
that's a tricky thing because I remember when I first
got hired to do the show. I remember Ken Quaba saying,
(42:45):
we're you know, we're not going to worry about continuity
because it's a documentary. The documentarians can make mistakes, but
that only works on certain levels. That works on the
level of on the cutting level, Like if if the
documentarian cut in two different pieces of a take cut
them together in an awkward way, that would be okay.
(43:08):
But you can't cut together two takes that don't match,
because then you're implying that this thing happened twice and
it only happened once, you know what I mean. So
if there has to be a reality to it that
you know, um, so that conuity is actually very important
(43:28):
in the end and not something I could ignore. And
you didn't want to imply that The documentarians were saying, Okay,
do this again, you know, but do it a little differently,
because they were just supposed to be shooting discreetly, you know,
and not controlling what was happening. They were all kinds
(43:49):
of new, new kinds of continuity that I hadn't really
thought about before, Like if somebody was out of the office,
their jacket couldn't be on their chair because they were
wearing it, right, So you'd have to, you know, look
at sort of the the opposite side of the community.
What what shouldn't be there? Right in the parking lot,
(44:11):
it was the same way, what cars should be there
and what cars shouldn't be there. We have to always
think about that. Well, the most important car was your
actual yes, right, that was Kevin's Carns car for a
long time. Do you remember when it first got established?
It was right away it was like, yeah, yeah, the
(44:33):
first season. Yeah, I drove it quite a few times
in the end, Yes, in front of Holloway when she's
impressed with me sort of most notably, um, yeah, I
remember thinking, you know, she's so impressed that I'm driving
the car. And I remember having this idea of just
(44:57):
driving it straight over the curve just like and just
plowing right. And then I thought, the greatest car. I
think I won't I think I won't do that. Yeah,
but I I always remember Rap four. Oh it wasn't
the Rap four. It was CRVRV. First I forgot, yes,
(45:20):
but now it was do you remember there was like
this fuzzy tiger striped cover over the wheel, over the wheel. Yeah,
after a couple of years, my husband bought that for
me because steering wheill get cold. But I remember at
the production meeting, John was directing the episode where you
(45:40):
were driving the car, and I asked him I should
should I take off the fuzzy steering wheel cover, and
he said, I would never ask you to do that.
I would never ask you to take off something like that. No,
that if that's on your car, you leave that. That's
so great. And we all got a little bump on
our paycheck if we have are I think it was
like five dollars that you got if your car was
(46:02):
in a scene, and they just kept a tally of
how many times your car was in a scene, and
you'd get a little bumped for that. Really do you
get residuals? Get residuals. But the car was in a
lot of shots, a lot of shots. No, it was
(46:39):
was the office. Um, your acting debut. Well I was
only in that last Yeah, I was in that last episode.
And yes, that was your acting debut. Any memories about
being on set in front of the camera. I was
always so nervous. I'm really shy, so that was not
comfortable for me. But I like that we were all
(47:01):
you know that a lot of us were in that
final episode, but it was I didn't want to have
a line or anything. What do you remember going into
the finale? Did you feel like it was time for
it to be over. I didn't want it to be
over personally. I would have liked to just work on
(47:21):
that show for the rest of my career. But um,
I felt like it was smart to decide when your
show is going to end and wrap it up beautifully
instead of just ending it suddenly. But it was so sad.
It was just hard for all of us. I think, Yeah,
(47:42):
what was it do you think about the show that?
I mean, obviously, it's a job, and in our industry,
like having a job and a good job is is
a blessing. But it felt different. There was something about it.
It felt special. Yes, definitely. There was a lot of love.
You know, there was a lot of um caring for
(48:04):
the show, caring for each other. It was a good
environment and you know, even though it was very tiring,
we were all exhausted, it felt good to do that
job and to be there every day. It was hard
to imagine not having that, and I really never have
found a show where I feel that way. So I
(48:26):
was right to be sad because it really was something
that I was losing. I mean, I've enjoyed shows I've
worked on since then, but never I never felt that
warmth and that camaraderie in anything else. We were all
we all laughed so much that sometimes it was hard
to finish a scene. And I had to put that
(48:49):
in my notes because you know, I'd say this scene
was great up until they all broke. That was something
the editors would mention to me sometimes, you know, I
can't cut this, it's like somebody's breaking in every take.
But then also the crew we had to you know,
we couldn't laugh out loud, and that is hard to
do sometimes, especially if you're in that little talking head
(49:12):
room and you're sitting right in front of the actor.
There were times when I had to actually leave the room.
But that was one thing that made it great to
be there every day, because you would there was so
much that was so funny. There was so much laughter. Um,
talk to me about this German lullaby oh that appeared
(49:34):
in the show that was in Mindy's something, Mindy road right,
Mindy Kaylenk. The episode was Night Out Dwight. It was
Dwight Dwight sings Ryan to sleep. Yeah, my mother was Viennese,
so her first language was German, and when growing up
in Vienna, they spoke German and so her mother would
(49:58):
sing her German lullaby. So when I was a child,
she sang German lullabies to me when I was falling asleep.
So I knew a couple of German lullabies. And so
I just piped up and said, you know, I because
I guess she wanted him to sing something to her. Yeah,
I said, well he could sing what my mother sang
(50:21):
to me, and I sang it for was it schlofkin
lynchlough schlaf kin lynch law mm hmm, yeah, I think
that was that. Yeah, And um, I always found it
very soothing. So so yeah, well I don't remember the
(50:41):
words right now, but I know because it starts schlaf
kin lynch lav mm hmmmmmm. I don't remember the words
at the time, I still I remembered the words where
I looked them up. Slow kin lynch law. That's very funny. Um,
(51:03):
the guys, is there anything else that I've missed here? Right? Yeah,
look at your list. I actually hear all this stuff.
Do you ever say that's what she said? I say it,
I say it. I say it around friends. I tend
(51:24):
to not draw attention to that fact, but yes, do
you say that's what she said? My husband and I
say it all the time at home. Yeah, but I
try not to say it on set anymore because I
think people do get maybe offended by it, and you know,
sets are so sensitive now about harassment and saying things
(51:46):
like that. So I don't say it on set anymore.
Just sometimes I have to say it, so I say
it to myself really quietly. Do you do you think
that this show could be made now? In this question
woke PC environment, I think it was, you know, a
(52:10):
perfect storm. It's like, you know, everything came together at
that moment, all the people involved, all the ideas, all
the um you know, the crew, that talent, it all
came together in a way that made it all work.
And I don't know if we could ever happen exactly
(52:30):
that way again. Yeah, I don't know if it has
to do with the time period or it's just the
miracle of all those personalities coming together at that moment. Yeah, Veda,
thank you so much for coming, and yeah for coming
to talk to me and your your perspective having watched
(52:52):
it all as it happened, is really delight to watch. Well, Vada,
what a delight you are. And thank you for speaking
(53:15):
with me. What a true pleasure to have you in.
That's what she said. Uh, and thank you listeners for
joining in. Join us again next week please for another
riveting conversation, and don't forget to subscribe and leave us
comments on on whatever podcast platform you see fit. Have
(53:38):
a great week. The Office Deep Dive is hosted and
executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer, Langlee.
Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer. Our producers are Emily
(53:58):
Carr and Diego Tapia. Our social media producer is Liz Hayes.
My main man in the booth is Alec Moore. Our
theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by my great friend
Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed by Seth Oladsky
Host
Brian Baumgartner
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com