August 19, 2020 • 43 mins
On November 13th, 2018, six members of the Wagner family were arrested in connection with the Rhoden family massacre, in Piketon, Ohio. While authorities claim that a custody dispute between Jake Wagner and Hanna Rhoden was the central motive, there are others that think that perhaps law enforcement officials may have the wrong people in custody.
Episode four explores some of the alternative theories surrounding the “Piketon Massacre.” We look into the Rhoden family’s violent altercations with other Piketon locals, a melee that ensued after a demolition derby race, and their potential involvement in the Ohio drug trade.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
How Deep does a Mother's Love Run? Now streaming only
on Hulu, experience a race against time by four mothers
who went undercover. My ex partner abducted our six year
old son and took him out of the country. This
was a mother's worst nightmare, and we'll stop at nothing.
I knew something bad at for the children they love.
I was so scared, and that's when all hell breaks loose.
(00:21):
Mother Undercover. I wanted him to know you mess with
the wrong mother. Now streaming oh Man, Hulu search Mother Undercover.
He'll forget about the video game you gave him on
his birthday. Wow, thanks Grandpa. But he'll never forget how
you invested in his future with the unstapp. Wow, thanks Grandpa.
The unstap makes it easy for grandparents and family friends
(00:43):
to give funds to a child's investment account for a
limited time. Download the unstapp and use the code I
Heart fifty aet sign up to receive a fifty dollar
bonus when you find your account. That's code I heard fifty.
When you sign up at unest dot COO for fifty
dollars bonus. See terms and conditions at Unest dots EO.
Have you cut the chord and are feeling bored with
your streaming services. Curiosity Stream can help with thousands of
(01:07):
documentary films and TV shows. Let curiosity Stream put the
science back in your screen time. Astound you with history,
come to life and wildlife that will reach out and
grab you. We've got the fix for your nonfiction fascination
with monthly, annual, and bundled plans. Find one for you
at curiosity stream dot com. Reasons to use get Around
(01:32):
the most awesomest car sharing app in the world, number sixteen,
rates as low as five bucks an hour. I rented
this car from get Around for less than the price
of that coffee you're drinking a lot say less, really,
come on, that's a softol down the middle. With get Around,
you only pay for the time you need with rates
starting at just five bucks an hour, so you can
get moving on a budget. Get Around Just book on
(01:54):
lock to drive, say twenty five dollars on your first
Get Around trip with code affordable twenty five supply. Welcome
to the piked In Massacre, a production of iHeartRadio and
Katie Studios, four members of the Wagner family are in
prison awaiting death penalty trials for the murder of eight
members of the Rodan family. Four suspense are Billy and
(02:17):
Angela Wagner and their sons George. The fourth day. These
four individuals are now in custody for alleged late committing
this heartless, ruthless, cold blooded murder. Two others have been
charged with helping to cover up the grizzly crime rider
Joe Nukam and Fredrik Kirol Wagner under house arrest connected
to the killings of eight members of the Rodan family
(02:37):
to judges said bond and one hundred thousand dollars. But
while Ohio's largest murder investigation brings the alleged killers to
stand trial, it also raises some unsettling questions about the
victims themselves. There had been reports of scuple with other
people in public. There were indications that they were involved
in some drug deals in drug trade. Law enforcements yet
(03:00):
to say if the extensive marijuana crew operation they found
is connected to the death, And now two years after
the arrests, the residents of Piked in Ohio are conflicted
about what really happened on the early morning of April
twenty sixteen. I think there's more to it, and I
don't know if we'll ever get to treat about it,
to be honest with yet. This is the Piked and
(03:25):
Massacre Episode four alternate theories. In the last episode, we
examine the motive that authorities believe lie at the center
of the brutal killings of eight members of the Roden family,
a feud between Jake Wagner and Hannah Rodin over the
(03:45):
custody of their two and a half year old daughter, Sophia.
Though it is important to remember that the Wagners are
all innocent until proven guilty, there is mounting evidence to
support the custody theory. Still, nearly two years after the arrests,
some sens of Pikes in Ohio are conflicted about their guilt.
You know the BCI, you know in the state of Ohio,
(04:07):
poor County. They're not really wanting to spend a lot
of money on it. Somebody did it, but it wasn't.
Now it just doesn't make sense to me if they
are innocent, because who else would do that. I wish
we knew exactly what happened. I knew people kill people
with her custody, but not that many people. I think
there's more to it. It's bigger than what people think
(04:27):
it is, and I don't know if we'll ever get
the truth about it. To be honest with you, that's
exactly what we're going to explore in this episode. I'm
Courtney Armstrong, a producer at Katie Studios. With Stephanie Lydecker
and Jeff Shane. We worked on a documentary about the
(04:47):
case back in twenty nineteen. One thing the three of
us know for sure is that the Rodents did not
deserve this by all accounts. They were just a loving
and caring family, and their loss is felt throughout the
entire community. And that's really why we want to bring
down only them, but the entire town of Piked injustice
and hopefully shut a light on the crime and help
(05:08):
bring everyone in some sense of closure. Following the Roden murders,
it was two and a half years before the Wagners
were arrested. In that time, many other plausible theories were
put forward, and there are those who believe that some
of them are credible possibilities. When we began researching the story,
we kept hearing rumblings about two of the victims. We
(05:29):
haven't discussed much yet. The Roden sons, Chris Junior and Frankie.
From all accounts, twenty year old Frankie was a wonderful man.
He was a devoted father and excited about his upcoming
marriage to his fiance, Hannah Gilly. Chris Junior was just
a few years younger than Frankie. Brittany, one of Chris
Junior's oldest friends, talked to Stephanie about her memories of
(05:50):
him growing up. When did you and Chris Junior meet
for the first time? How old were you? Guys? We
were young. We were either in kindergarten or first grade,
and you were friends from that day forward. Yes, we
actually dated first grade. He was the love of my life.
What did the first grade version of you love about him?
(06:12):
That he's a little bad noise and that's how he
always was, Like he was the guy that he's like,
I know, I have it all like. He was that
type of boy growing up. One of the things that
kept coming up when we talked to people around town
was the Roden Boys love of demolition derby. Frankie and
Chris Junior were very passionate about demolition derby racing. They
(06:35):
spent most of their time building and rebuilding these cars
to race in Derby's all across Ohio. We spoke to
journalist Jeff Winkler, who spent some time at Derby Races
as part of his investigation into the Roden murders. Demolition
derby is if you've seen it on TV, it's it
looks like chaos, and to a degree it is, but
it's you know, raining into people. There's a lot of
(06:56):
loud noises, and there's a lot of concrete flying, and
there's fires, smoke and dirt, and it's exciting and fun
and people who love it love it. The Rodents were
deeply involved in demolition derbies in the area. They were
very much part of that culture. But demolition derbies are
are really intense. You're smashing each other, I mean, emotions
get high. Jeff told us about one derby that Chris
(07:18):
Junior and Frankie participated in in May of twenty fifteen
that ended in a bloody altercation. Based on what's been
reported and the court documents, I think it's fair to
say that Frankie and Chris Junior, I mean definitely were
hotheads and definitely got into fights here and there. They
had an incident with a fellow named Tommy Gorman, who
(07:40):
was a rival in the demolition derbys. They got into
a bit of a sort of heated match and there
was a believe a sort of incident on the track.
They got up to stay with each other's in bad blood,
and then again it's you know, kind of picked up
speed with Facebook posts about sort of consulting each other,
and then of course Chris Junior Frankie drove over to
(08:04):
Gorman's house and proceeded to really beat on Gorman and
his father, and the fights and beatings were only really
broken up after the grandfather came out and pumped a
few shotgun shells into the air. According to reports, the
Rodents showed up with a dozen friends and proceeded to
(08:26):
brutally assault Tommy Junior and even knocked out his father,
Tommy Senior's front teeth in the aftermath of the fight.
Frankie was arrested and sentenced to less than a year's
probation for the attack. Chris Junior was a juvenile at
the time of the attack, and no court records are
available that charges made against him. Here's our producer Jeff
Shane speaking to Jeff Winkler and was Tommy and his family.
(08:49):
Were they ever looked at a suspects do you know, like,
did the sheriff ever interview them or see if they
were involved. I mean, the press had had talked to
the Gorman family after hearing about these fights, you know,
on Facebook, but far as I know, the law enforcement
never really approached them. While the Gorman's admitted to reporters
that there was some bad blood between them and the
Rodent family, it was not enough to retaliate and certainly
(09:11):
not enough to kill over. In fact, the Gorman family
were never suspects in the investigation, but there were more
people to look into as our investigation unfolded, so too
to the list of people who could have wanted payback
on the Rodents. Take Rusty Mongold, another local kid who
had gotten into an altercation with Chris Junior just two
(09:33):
weeks before the Rodents were murdered. Long gold Head posted
on Facebook that Chris Junior hid him with a car
and in his message, you know, he uses some pretty
tough language. I mean, Rusty was nineteen at the time,
and you know he's talking about I'm going to break
his fucking legs and curb stop his ass, and I
mean just sort of sort of nineteen year old bluster. Really,
(09:55):
the Rusty Mongold thing happened just two weeks before the murders,
so I mean, I think this was pretty obvious that
the investigators had to check that out. And of course
he got pulled over and was detained and even did
a DNA sample, But it was pretty clear that you'd
nothing to do with it. But you know, that kind
(10:17):
of language is certainly going to grab the attention of
the authorities, especially after something like this. But the authorities
finding no clear link between Rusty Mongold, the Gorman family,
and the road and murders, the feeling around Piketon was
still ominous. No one knew who could be responsible for
the mass murder, or even if the responsible parties lived
next door. Jeff Winkler fills us in on yet another
(10:42):
incident that happened leading up to the murders, according to
court documents, on February twenty fourth, and this was two
months before the murders, so two months before the murders.
In late February, Chris Junior was involved in a road
rage incident with a thirty three year old woman named
repect Allen. Apparents of the court records Rebecca had slapped
(11:03):
Chris Junior in the face, but she also made threats
against him and his mother, Dana, which were recorded on
a cell phone. Here's what we know about this. Dana Roden,
Chris Junior's mom, got involved as well, and Rebecca Allen
ultimately got two years probation, forty hours of community service,
and a restraining order against contacting Chris Junior and Dana Roden.
(11:26):
This was on April twentieth, twenty sixteen, one day before
the murders took place. There were definitely some scrapes, some posturing,
and yeah, some social media threats, But is that really
motive enough to murder eight people? Of course not, But
the timing of it is interesting. You know, as we
try to understand what's happened, it's important to know everything
(11:47):
this family was going through up until the murders, because
we don't know what's important until we know it's important.
But going back to Rebecca Allen and the road rage
incident for just one second. Leonard Manley, Danna's father, who
at this point was just trying to cope with the tragedy,
was quoted in the news as saying that Rebecca Allen
should be looked into with regards to the massacre Dania
(12:10):
Roden's family. The Manlies were deeply entrenched in the Rodent's
day to day lives and they were a key piece
of the investigation at first. Bobby Joe Manley, for example,
she's the one who discovered their bodies and also made
that first nine one one call. Here's investigative reporter Jodi Barr.
The days after this, the nine when one calls were
(12:30):
beginning to be produced, so then you could get a
picture of what happened that morning that you know, a
family member went into the first home and found the
first two dead, Gary and Chris Senior. Okay, that's idea. Okay,
what's your name my Bobby Stry, Yeah, what's your name? Christler?
(13:07):
That was Bobby Joe Manly. You hear about James Manley
going over to Dana's house, finding his sister, dad, his
niece and nephew. So you start getting some more pieces
to put together in this puzzle, and then you realize, well,
wait a minute, why were they there? Police want to
(13:27):
know that too. We found out from Lynn Manly that's
Dana Rodin's father, James Manley's father. That Bobby Joe and
James were both taken down into the Pike County Sheriff's
office and interrogated. So from the outset, when you look
at that and you go, well, obviously they had two
people in mind. These were the two people who made
(13:48):
the initial finds of the bodies that morning and made
those nine on one cause. And then we had gotten
word that investigators wanted to know who paid them to
murder their own family. Over the next few weeks, Bobby
Joe Manley has questioned several times these people are not
only being looked at in murder suspects, they're going through
(14:10):
the entire process. They're being interrogated, they're given polygraphs. I
can tell you I spoke with Bobby Joe Manley on
the porch of her father's home and she was She
told me that she was given three polygraph tests and
passed every one. As the suspicion surrounding Bobby Joe subsides,
(14:31):
authorities began taking a closer look at James Manley, and
it's not too long before they make a stunning discovery
about who he talked to on the night of the murders.
In the overnight hours at two am. This would have
been just for all we know, minutes before the murders
two in the morning. I mean the bodies were found,
you know, at sun up, but that at two in
the morning, James was texting with Jake Wagner. Jake obviously
(14:56):
now charged in these murders. We didn't know the context
of those texts, but we do know that happened, and
you know, just strange suspicions. And then James Manly took
a polygraph and failed that. We're going to take a
(15:18):
quick break here, we'll be back in a moment. Like
many of us, you might think identity theft will never
happen to you, but consider this. There's a new identity
theft victim every three seconds in the US. That's over
fifteen million people by the end of this year, equal
to the populations of New York, Los Angeles, and Chicago combined.
(15:41):
Even worse, identity theft victims often don't even know they're victims.
That's why LifeLock identity theft protection helps you identify threats,
even the ones that don't show up on a credit report,
like data breaches, fraudulent bank transactions, loan and credit card applications,
and crimes committed in your name. If your idea entity
is stolen, your own dedicated LifeLock US based restoration specialist
(16:04):
will work to fix it. No one can prevent all
identity theft, but LifeLock protects you in ways that you
simply can't on your own. Save up to twenty five
percent your first year at LifeLock dot com slash iHeart.
That's LifeLock dot com slash iHeart to save up to
twenty five percent. Identity theft protection starts here. He'll forget
(16:25):
about the video game you gave him on his birthday. Wow,
thanks grandpa, But he'll never forget how you invested in
his future. What the unstapp? Wow, thanks grandpa. Don't just
give them any gift, give them a gift that can
grow with them. Invite grandparents and family friends to contribute
(16:47):
to your child's future with the unstapp. Unst is an
investment account for kids that makes it easy to gift
funds that can be used for college tuition, their first home,
and more, just by sharing the link or include a
UNSQR code on party invitations for birthdays and holidays. For
a limited time, download the unst app and use the
(17:08):
code I Heart fifty at sign up to receive a
fifty dollars bonus when you fund your account. That's code
I heeart fifty when you sign up at une st
dot coo for a fifty dollars bonus. See terms and
conditions at uns dot coo. Curiosity Stream is the streaming
service for people who want to know more more about
(17:29):
our world and beyond. Curiosity Stream has the best collection
of documentary films and TV shows and now check out
Curiosity's new series, The Real Wild West. Rolling Stone magazine
says it's the history of the West. They usually don't
teach you the an mythology of the West left out
a lot of the people. American West is far more different,
(17:49):
far more diverse. Popould say they've never seen a black cowboy. Well,
we've been there, we've been doing it. I never really
learned about the Hispanic Mexican aspect of the story. This
is the history book, but did you know about these
other facts? Watch The Real Wild West now on Curiosity Stream.
Just go to curiosity stream dot com to sign up
or download the app now. With new titles dropping every week,
(18:12):
you'll never run out of things to watch, and with
monthly annual and bungled pricing plans. It's easy to find
one that works for you when your budget. Go to
curiosity stream dot com to satisfy your curiosity and sign
up today. How Deep does a Mother's Love Run? Now
streaming only on Hulu, Experience for yourself a real life
(18:33):
race against time by four mothers who went undercover. My
partner abducted our six year old son and took him
out of the country. This was a mother's worst nightmare.
I didn't know what to do, and we'll stop at nothing.
I knew something bad for the children they love. This
is the mission to get the child back. I was
so scared I would have to disguise myself to get him.
(18:55):
You're not keeping my child for incredible heart racing story.
I'm not a detective. I just wanted my family back together.
I had to live a double life to save my son.
This is the last chance to get my kids back,
and that's when I'll help breaks loose. There has to
be away, Go Go, Go. Experience the stunning new true
crime docuseries Mother Undercover. I wanted him to know you
(19:19):
mess with the wrong mother. Now streaming only on Whoever
Search Mother Undercover Here again is Jodie Barr commenting on
James Manley's failed polygraph. I don't know what to make
of that. You know what that means, failing a polygraph.
(19:41):
I have no idea because we don't know the questions
were asked without sufficient evidence to charge him. James Manley
is released, but police continue to keep an eye on him.
Something to think about is that no arrests were made
after this questioning or the alleged polygraph failure, So it's
not like the police found some sort of smoking gun
(20:01):
that implicated him in the crimes. Furthermore, in the state
of Ohio, polygraphic examinations are admitted under limited circumstances in
the court of law. In the state. Only if all parties,
including the defendant, defense attorney, and the prosecutor, agree in
advance to the admissibility of the results, will the court
be inclined to admit them. Plus, it's really not uncommon
(20:22):
for immediate family members, particularly those who have discovered bodies,
to be considered air quotes suspects at first. It's just
a natural place for most investigations to begin. All that's said,
I can only imagine how difficult that must have been
for the manlies. We found out later that you know,
he was. It was some respects a potential target of
(20:42):
the investigation because we know that investigators put a GPS
device underneath James Manley's pickup truck and for whatever reasons
they follow need to track him. And then James many
finds that this GPS tracker attached to the underside of
his pickup truck, he rips that off, and then he's
(21:03):
arrested for doing that. This all happens in May of
twenty seventeen, three hundred and ninety days after James Manley's
sister and her family were murdered. He's charged with two felonies,
tampering with evidence and vandalism, both counts for removing the
tracking device on his car. I can remember, you know,
(21:23):
getting that news late late in the day and driving
straight to Ross County, Ohio to the jail where James
Manley was booked and you know, being held overnight or
waiting a bond hearing. But on the way there, you're
trying to replay these conversations in your mind that you know,
what were the scenarios that involved James. Why is there
a GPS tracker on the brother of the a dead family.
(21:48):
I mean, this was hitting really close to home. So again,
every trip to Pike County was this cloud of suspicion
and confusion. You wonder if they arrested him on those
charges to try to just bring him in and hopes
that they would then question him and he would admit
to something murder related. You know, that was a suspicion.
You know, it's like, man, where is this going to
(22:10):
end up? You know, because the story is horrible and
horrific enough. But six days after his arrest, the charges
against James Manley are dismissed. It's another dead end for investigators.
Another leading theory at the time was the involvement with
the drug cartel. The Rodents did have marijuana growing on
(22:32):
their property, and it was not just a few plants
here and there in the window. It was a lot.
A law enforcement source has confirmed that investigators found some
two hundred marijuana plants on all of the properties. The
same source said that the size of the operation indicates
it was being grown for sale and not for personal use.
And just to put that into perspective, each plant could
(22:52):
produce around one pound of marijuana and a pound of
high grade quality marijuana had a street value of around
two thousand dollars at the time, meaning that the Rodents
had in their possession four hundred thousand dollars worth of marijuana.
I think it's worth noting also that the unemployment rate
and PIKED in Ohio is one hundred and fifteen percent
higher than the national average, and I share that simply
(23:12):
to say, by all accounts, the Rodents were very hard
working people, and the fact that there was this marijuana
grow operation in their backyard kind of erased the entire investigation,
as if the Rodent family was just a bunch of
drug dealers who had it coming, and based on our research,
that really doesn't add up. It should be noted that
around the same time as the murders, marijuana was being
(23:35):
legalized for medicinal use in the state of Ohio, So
in theory, the Rodents could have been growing the crop
to be distributed for people who were prescribed marijuana legally
to treat things like cancer and Alzheimer's. Also, when Jeff
and I were in Piked in the last time, somebody
said something to us in passing, and it's always sort
of stuck with me regarding the marijuana grow operation. On
(23:55):
the one hand, if it was a small operation, how
would that possibly come institute a drug cartel hit of
this size? Four different locations. It felt very personal. Each
crime scene seemed to tell a story of sorts, not
totally the moo of the drug cartel. In our research
on the flip, if it was a large scale operation,
they would have needed a lot of equipment, specialized lighting,
(24:17):
and that lighting likely would have caused a bit of
a surge in electricity that would have been noticeable by
the electric company number one and number two. It also
would have been very bright. Where they lived was a
very rural road. It's dark, there's no street lights. How
would a grow operation of that size go unnoticed? Yeah,
(24:37):
and based on all of our research, if it really
was the drug cartel, they would have killed the dogs
and the kids. They leave no one behind. I think
it's okay for us to confirm that we did find
marijuana in three locations. There's a grow operations. Our producer
(25:00):
Jeff Shane spoke to investigative journalist James Pilcher, who was
in piked in just after the announcement was made. That
obviously feeled even more speculation that these were outside operators.
Possibly was as a drug deal gone bad, or was
somebody trying to take over their turf. All kinds of
rumors started to slow after that disclosure. So this idea
(25:21):
that like a drug cartel being a potential culprit, it
does sound crazy. The small town infiltrated by you know,
international drug dealers in the middle of Appalachian in southern Ohio.
You know, but if it turned out to be that,
we would not have been suppressed because Mexican drug cartels
had done a lot of activity in southern Ohio, in
(25:41):
Pike County, in Siotta County, and in Ross County. In fact,
in August twenty twelve, law enforcement officers found a major
marijuana grow site in Pike County. It had suspected ties
to a Mexican drug cartel. During that raid, officials destroyed
about twelve hundred marijuana plants and found two abandoned campsites
(26:02):
that they believe belonged to Mexican nationals. The main route
from southern Ohio to Columbus, which is the next biggest
city next to Cincinnati, cuts right all through there, So
you have those people coming in and out. Now, were
the rodents involved directly in the narcotics business. There were
(26:24):
indications that they were involved in some drug deals and
drug trade with marijuana. The Rods had attack dogs, which
again belies that all American image, which means what did
they have to hide? They had attack dogs, the security cameras,
there was a lot of security at that place. They
wanted to protect what they had. Now does that mean
(26:46):
that they were doing anything wrong? Not necessarily, but it
certainly raised a lot of questions. Journalist Jodie Barr walked
off through the logic of the drug cartel theory. As
the months war on, no one has been arrested, no
one charged, no people named as persons of interest. You
really started to wonder, you know, maybe this drug cartel
(27:10):
things there was something too that they definitely knew how
to kill people. You know, you're looking for signs of
the drug cartel, and then you find Kenneth Rowden with
what appeared to be a gunshot in the head, but
that there were dollar bills or some sort of paper
(27:30):
money spread around the body. Was that a sign? What
did that mean? You know, as you know a reporter,
you're steadying back trying to draw conclusion or at least
a lead from what this meant? I mean, what does
that mean? There's a body lying there with money on it, so,
of course a drug cartel. At that point in time,
you couple with the Attorney General announcing that they found
(27:52):
commercial grow operations, it made sense. Let's stop here for
another quick break. We'll be back in a moment. He'll
forget about the video game you gave him on his birthday. Wow,
(28:13):
thanks grandpa, but he'll never forget how you invested in
his future with the unst app. Wow, thanks grandpa. Don't
just give them any gift, give them a gift that
can grow with them. Invite grandparents and family friends to
contribute to your child's future with the unst app. Unst
(28:33):
is an investment account for kids that makes it easy
to gift funds that can be used for college tuition,
their first home, and more. Just by sharing the link
or include a UNQR code on party invitations for birthdays
and holidays. For a limited time, download the unst stapp
and use the code I Heart fifty at sign up
to receive a fifty dollars bonus when you fund your account.
(28:56):
That's code I Heart fifty when you sign up at
une sto for a fifty dollars bonus. See terms and
conditions at unest dot coo. Curiosity Stream is the streaming
service built by and for people who want to know
more more about our world and beyond. Curiosity Stream has
(29:17):
the best collection of documentary films and TV shows about
everything from the history of human migration to the future
of space travel. With thousands of titles, curiosity has something
for everyone science, wildlife, travel, human stories, culture, and pretty
much anything you're curious about. Watch Curiosity Stream on your
(29:39):
TV or any digital device all around the world. Just
go to curiosity stream dot com to sign up or
download the app. Now you'll have access to brand new
titles dropping every week, filled with new discoveries and new
stories that will open your eyes to the world around us.
And with monthly, annual, and bundled pricing plans, it's easy
to find one that works for you and your budget.
(30:00):
Go to curiosity stream dot com to satisfy your curiosity
and sign up today. How Deep does a Mother's Love Run?
Now streaming only on Hulu. Experience for yourself a real
life race against time by four mothers who went undercover.
My ex partner abducted our six year old son and
(30:20):
took him out of the country. This was a mother's
worst nightmare. I didn't know what to do, and we'll
stop at nothing. I knew something better for the children
they love. This is the mission to get the child back.
I was so scared I would have to disguise myself
to get him. You're not keeping my child for incredible
heart racing stories. I'm not a detective. I just wanted
(30:43):
my family back together. I had to live a double
life to save my son. This is the last chance
to get my kids back, and that's when all help
breaks loose. It has to be away. Go Go, Go.
Experience the stunning new true crime docuseries Mother Undercover. I
wanted him to know, you mess with the wrong mother,
now streaming only on whoever search Mother Undercover up. You
(31:08):
will fail. So what everybody does, but your jim your watch,
your yoga pants, They pretend you won't. So when you
miss a day, eat the pancakes, give up on a workout,
you failed. Seriously, What the hell we're body? We've been
a part of that too, but not anymore at body
(31:31):
or rejecting perfection, an embracing reality, not in a pizza
Monday kind of way, in a loving your whole life
kind of way. In this workout is fun and it's
okay if I take a week off kind of way,
in an I'm eating healthy and it's okay if I
indulge kind of way, in a I like myself. No
matter what kind of way. Yeah, you will fail, we
(31:55):
all will. But we're not going to let that be
the end. And see that we're already making progress. So
let's keep going. We are Body. Start your free trial
at body dot com. That's Bodi dot com. The discovery
(32:15):
of the Rodents grow operation didn't just complicate the case
and who might be responsible. It forced the residence of
Pyton to reconsider their feelings for the family. As soon
as Dwine and Reader made that announcement of the commercial
grow operations that appeared to change the entire public perception
of these murders. The empathy for this family, and even
(32:37):
the monetary donations that were coming in to help bury
these people, all of that stopped. There was a large
reward put up by Jeff Ruby, a restaurant owner in Cincinnati,
that was rescinded that day. The public support they were
getting almost vanished that day. I mean, these were eight
innocent people, and then sort of flifted on his head
(33:00):
that you know, these were eight people potentially involved in
some large drug operation and the people seemingly just instantly
stopped caring. And you know, all that momentum the family
had of you know, the public being interested in this
by trying to solve it, taking care of this, you know,
these kids who were left trying to bury these eight people.
(33:21):
I mean, that's a large expense that vanished that day,
and that was over as soon as that announcement was made. However,
those closest to the family never believed that Cartel was
behind the murders. Is Kenneth Roden's daughter. Kenneth was that
eighth victim, the final victim found. I worked out an
interview with Kendred and her mother at their home, and
(33:43):
I mean, through that interview we finally got to look
at how close his family really was. Kendred just going
through her phone with her She had pictures with Hannah,
she had pictures with Chris Junior, she had pictures with Dana,
her father obviously was a large part of the photos
stored on her phone. I mean, they looked like a
normal family. I mean there was nothing in those pictures
(34:07):
that would indicate that, you know, a week later, eight
of these people in these pictures would no longer draw
the breath of life. Man. You just it was nothing
to indicate that. And you're looking at these pictures and
you're looking for some clue, You're looking for that sign
from Kendrem when you're invited into her home. You saw
none of that. I mean, it was almost like, That's
(34:31):
why it's almost unbelievable that it even happened, because when
you look at these photographs and you talk to these people,
they're just like anybody else you'd ever talk to, a
typical rural American family who rose to this notorious, you know,
platform through the nightly news coming out and telling the
(34:52):
world about their darkest hour. Eight people murdered in their
homes while they slept, children spared covered with blood. And
it's like you try to reconcile what you saw on
those photographs and the story that Kendra Roden was telling
about this family to the picture that you now have
of them murdered in these homes, apparently involved in some
(35:14):
sort of commercial drug industry, and then you try to
put all that together. I mean, I don't know how
the hell you figure that out. It was so confusing.
So if it wasn't a drug cartel, who was it.
Let's shift our focus back to the Wagners for a minute.
Could there be other motives aside from the custs dispute
(35:36):
between Jake Wagner and Hannah Rodin. As we found out
from speaking to journalist Jeff Winkler, there were more connections
between the Rodens and the Wagners than just Hannah and Jake. Obviously,
the families shared a grandchild together, so there was just
a lot of interaction between the families. But as the
investigation went on, you know, there was a clear sort
(35:57):
of trail between Christopher Roden Senior and Bill Wagner. They
had been long time acquaintances, possibly friends, and also business partners.
They were just you know, some little boy entrepreneurs. These
are multi generational families in the same area, so yeah,
they just again that sort of mix of family and
(36:20):
friends and neighbors, business partners. It all sorts of blends
in together. Angela Wagner even had said to the press
that her and her husband and Chris Senior were longtime
friends like they were. The Wagners. Were presenting them as
close allies, and I think some of that was, of course,
is trying to, you know, sort of trade the family
as not adversarial to the Rodents. But they had something
(36:43):
to have fallen out before the murders. Attorney and legal
commentator Mike Allen philed us in back in mid April
two thousand and sixteen. Supposedly there was a fight between
Chris Senior and Billy Wagner. Witnesses say ended with Billy
threatening to quote come back and finish them all. Nobody
(37:11):
seems to know what the fight was about or what
caused it. But you know, these two families, from everything
that I've seen, were probably not shy about taking care
of business if they felt somebody abused them or their family.
So could this all have stemmed from some kind of
(37:32):
business arrangement gone wrong? Though we can't be positive. One
thing we do know is that the detail of Christinior's
autopsy seems to indicate that his death was much different
than the other seven victims. Here's James Pilcher speaking to
Jeff again. Of all the crimeses that day, like his
was known to be the worst. Yeah, he was shot
the most first of all, he was shot nine times,
(37:52):
possibly because he was trying to fight back, but possibly
because you know, the vendetta was mostly against him, or
that he was the primary target, I should say. And
then they positioned his body in a certain way and
actually drug his body away from where he had originally fallen,
so that gave investigators even more of an indication that
(38:14):
this was personal. An anonymous Wagner family relative told Jeff
that the situation between the Wagners and the Rodents was
reaching a boiling point. This was just before the Rodents
were found dead. I knew that they were the families Hanness,
the Rodents and you know my family. They were fighting.
There was a lot of tension there, bad blood there,
(38:36):
but I never thought in a million years that they
had anything to do with that. To me, it's just
it's so overwhelming. It's there's a feeling that is almost indescribable.
It's kind of like, you know, you don't know how
to react, so you're constantly at least I am at this,
like it said, like it does a war with my emotions,
my feelings because I beloved him so much. She know
(38:58):
when I care about him, and they our family, that's
your family, So it's hard to just turn your back
and be like, Okay, well you're a freaking monster, so
I want nothing to do with you, and I don't
love you no more, I don't care about you no more.
So it seems like your relationship with Angela and her
family really changed and never really was the same. Yep,
(39:20):
it did. It was absolutely mind blowing. I just couldn't
I couldn't picture it because I knew them completely different people,
you know what I mean, Like I would have never
pictured Angela being capable, or or the boys of any
of that. When we first heard about the road and murders,
(39:45):
we were shocked at the brutality of it all. And
when we first got to piked In, we couldn't believe
that these murders took place in this community. But upon
speaking to residents and learning more about the town, we
discovered that the Rodents were not the first murder victims
who called piked In home. You know, if you look
back through the history of piked and there's quite a
(40:07):
bit of things that just happened that, you know, there's
no explanation for get swept under the rug. I don't know.
I think there's just more evil there than than just
what happened to those eight. Pike County is beautiful. It's
a beautiful place, but there's a lot of dirty people
here too. For the town that we you know the
(40:31):
size of our town, there's been a lot of murders
here that have not been solved. More on that next week.
Piked and Massacre is executive produced by Stephanie Lydecker and
me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by executive producer
(40:54):
Jared Aston. Additional producing by Jeff Shane and Andrew Becker.
The Piked in Massacre is a production of iHeartRadio and
Katie Studios. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. How long was Neil Armstrong actually on
(41:16):
the Moon? When did Europe start speaking English? Did Marco
Polo really go to China? Curiosity Stream is the streaming
service for all things history, plus science, wildlife and more.
What's the real story behind the Mona, Lisa? We've got that?
What caused the collapse of Rome? We know? Where? Did
we find Mankind's earliest ancestor? Come find out? From Egypt
to Weinstein Curiosity Stream is the place for history with monthly, annual,
(41:41):
and bundled plans. Find one for you at curiosity stream
dot com. How Deep does a Mother's Love Run? Now
streaming only on Hulu. Experience a race against time by
four mothers who went undercover. My ex partner abducted our
six year old son and took him out of the country.
This was a mother's worst nightmare, and we'll stop at nothing.
I knew something better for the children they love. I
(42:03):
was so scared, and that's when all hell breaks loose.
Mother Undercover. I wanted him to know you mess with
the wrong mother. Now streaming only and Hulu search Mother Undercover.
When we protect the ocean, we protect the creatures we
love and ourselves, from sea otters to penguins to the
always grumpy looking giant sea bass. These animals need a
(42:24):
healthy ocean to thrive, and so do we. It takes
a community dedicated to nurturing our favorite places to ensure
these animals big too small, as well as other crucial
sea life like help anemones and jellies can flourish, and
a healthy ocean helps us all join our mission to
inspire conservation of the Ocean by visiting us at Monterey
Bay Aquarium dot org, slash share your voice. Since her
(42:46):
role as White House correspondent, Caitlyn Collins has never been
afraid to dict deep. She's a reliable, deeply sourced reporter
and is always willing to hold the powerful accountable. On
her new CNN show, The Source with Caitlyn Collins, Caitlyn
is bringing that to acious spirit to prime time. She's
chasing the facts, connecting with her rolodex of sources, and
pulling the threads of a story together right up to
(43:07):
the minute she goes live, so viewers are getting the
very latest. The Source with Caitlin Collins weeknights at nine
pm Eastern only on CNN
How Deep does a Mother's Love Run? Now streaming only
on Hulu, experience a race against time by four mothers
who went undercover. My ex partner abducted our six year
old son and took him out of the country. This
was a mother's worst nightmare, and we'll stop at nothing.
I knew something bad at for the children they love.
I was so scared, and that's when all hell breaks loose.
(00:21):
Mother Undercover. I wanted him to know you mess with
the wrong mother. Now streaming oh Man, Hulu search Mother Undercover.
He'll forget about the video game you gave him on
his birthday. Wow, thanks Grandpa. But he'll never forget how
you invested in his future with the unstapp. Wow, thanks Grandpa.
The unstap makes it easy for grandparents and family friends
(00:43):
to give funds to a child's investment account for a
limited time. Download the unstapp and use the code I
Heart fifty aet sign up to receive a fifty dollar
bonus when you find your account. That's code I heard fifty.
When you sign up at unest dot COO for fifty
dollars bonus. See terms and conditions at Unest dots EO.
Have you cut the chord and are feeling bored with
your streaming services. Curiosity Stream can help with thousands of
(01:07):
documentary films and TV shows. Let curiosity Stream put the
science back in your screen time. Astound you with history,
come to life and wildlife that will reach out and
grab you. We've got the fix for your nonfiction fascination
with monthly, annual, and bundled plans. Find one for you
at curiosity stream dot com. Reasons to use get Around
(01:32):
the most awesomest car sharing app in the world, number sixteen,
rates as low as five bucks an hour. I rented
this car from get Around for less than the price
of that coffee you're drinking a lot say less, really,
come on, that's a softol down the middle. With get Around,
you only pay for the time you need with rates
starting at just five bucks an hour, so you can
get moving on a budget. Get Around Just book on
(01:54):
lock to drive, say twenty five dollars on your first
Get Around trip with code affordable twenty five supply. Welcome
to the piked In Massacre, a production of iHeartRadio and
Katie Studios, four members of the Wagner family are in
prison awaiting death penalty trials for the murder of eight
members of the Rodan family. Four suspense are Billy and
(02:17):
Angela Wagner and their sons George. The fourth day. These
four individuals are now in custody for alleged late committing
this heartless, ruthless, cold blooded murder. Two others have been
charged with helping to cover up the grizzly crime rider
Joe Nukam and Fredrik Kirol Wagner under house arrest connected
to the killings of eight members of the Rodan family
(02:37):
to judges said bond and one hundred thousand dollars. But
while Ohio's largest murder investigation brings the alleged killers to
stand trial, it also raises some unsettling questions about the
victims themselves. There had been reports of scuple with other
people in public. There were indications that they were involved
in some drug deals in drug trade. Law enforcements yet
(03:00):
to say if the extensive marijuana crew operation they found
is connected to the death, And now two years after
the arrests, the residents of Piked in Ohio are conflicted
about what really happened on the early morning of April
twenty sixteen. I think there's more to it, and I
don't know if we'll ever get to treat about it,
to be honest with yet. This is the Piked and
(03:25):
Massacre Episode four alternate theories. In the last episode, we
examine the motive that authorities believe lie at the center
of the brutal killings of eight members of the Roden family,
a feud between Jake Wagner and Hannah Rodin over the
(03:45):
custody of their two and a half year old daughter, Sophia.
Though it is important to remember that the Wagners are
all innocent until proven guilty, there is mounting evidence to
support the custody theory. Still, nearly two years after the arrests,
some sens of Pikes in Ohio are conflicted about their guilt.
You know the BCI, you know in the state of Ohio,
(04:07):
poor County. They're not really wanting to spend a lot
of money on it. Somebody did it, but it wasn't.
Now it just doesn't make sense to me if they
are innocent, because who else would do that. I wish
we knew exactly what happened. I knew people kill people
with her custody, but not that many people. I think
there's more to it. It's bigger than what people think
(04:27):
it is, and I don't know if we'll ever get
the truth about it. To be honest with you, that's
exactly what we're going to explore in this episode. I'm
Courtney Armstrong, a producer at Katie Studios. With Stephanie Lydecker
and Jeff Shane. We worked on a documentary about the
(04:47):
case back in twenty nineteen. One thing the three of
us know for sure is that the Rodents did not
deserve this by all accounts. They were just a loving
and caring family, and their loss is felt throughout the
entire community. And that's really why we want to bring
down only them, but the entire town of Piked injustice
and hopefully shut a light on the crime and help
(05:08):
bring everyone in some sense of closure. Following the Roden murders,
it was two and a half years before the Wagners
were arrested. In that time, many other plausible theories were
put forward, and there are those who believe that some
of them are credible possibilities. When we began researching the story,
we kept hearing rumblings about two of the victims. We
(05:29):
haven't discussed much yet. The Roden sons, Chris Junior and Frankie.
From all accounts, twenty year old Frankie was a wonderful man.
He was a devoted father and excited about his upcoming
marriage to his fiance, Hannah Gilly. Chris Junior was just
a few years younger than Frankie. Brittany, one of Chris
Junior's oldest friends, talked to Stephanie about her memories of
(05:50):
him growing up. When did you and Chris Junior meet
for the first time? How old were you? Guys? We
were young. We were either in kindergarten or first grade,
and you were friends from that day forward. Yes, we
actually dated first grade. He was the love of my life.
What did the first grade version of you love about him?
(06:12):
That he's a little bad noise and that's how he
always was, Like he was the guy that he's like,
I know, I have it all like. He was that
type of boy growing up. One of the things that
kept coming up when we talked to people around town
was the Roden Boys love of demolition derby. Frankie and
Chris Junior were very passionate about demolition derby racing. They
(06:35):
spent most of their time building and rebuilding these cars
to race in Derby's all across Ohio. We spoke to
journalist Jeff Winkler, who spent some time at Derby Races
as part of his investigation into the Roden murders. Demolition
derby is if you've seen it on TV, it's it
looks like chaos, and to a degree it is, but
it's you know, raining into people. There's a lot of
(06:56):
loud noises, and there's a lot of concrete flying, and
there's fires, smoke and dirt, and it's exciting and fun
and people who love it love it. The Rodents were
deeply involved in demolition derbies in the area. They were
very much part of that culture. But demolition derbies are
are really intense. You're smashing each other, I mean, emotions
get high. Jeff told us about one derby that Chris
(07:18):
Junior and Frankie participated in in May of twenty fifteen
that ended in a bloody altercation. Based on what's been
reported and the court documents, I think it's fair to
say that Frankie and Chris Junior, I mean definitely were
hotheads and definitely got into fights here and there. They
had an incident with a fellow named Tommy Gorman, who
(07:40):
was a rival in the demolition derbys. They got into
a bit of a sort of heated match and there
was a believe a sort of incident on the track.
They got up to stay with each other's in bad blood,
and then again it's you know, kind of picked up
speed with Facebook posts about sort of consulting each other,
and then of course Chris Junior Frankie drove over to
(08:04):
Gorman's house and proceeded to really beat on Gorman and
his father, and the fights and beatings were only really
broken up after the grandfather came out and pumped a
few shotgun shells into the air. According to reports, the
Rodents showed up with a dozen friends and proceeded to
(08:26):
brutally assault Tommy Junior and even knocked out his father,
Tommy Senior's front teeth in the aftermath of the fight.
Frankie was arrested and sentenced to less than a year's
probation for the attack. Chris Junior was a juvenile at
the time of the attack, and no court records are
available that charges made against him. Here's our producer Jeff
Shane speaking to Jeff Winkler and was Tommy and his family.
(08:49):
Were they ever looked at a suspects do you know, like,
did the sheriff ever interview them or see if they
were involved. I mean, the press had had talked to
the Gorman family after hearing about these fights, you know,
on Facebook, but far as I know, the law enforcement
never really approached them. While the Gorman's admitted to reporters
that there was some bad blood between them and the
Rodent family, it was not enough to retaliate and certainly
(09:11):
not enough to kill over. In fact, the Gorman family
were never suspects in the investigation, but there were more
people to look into as our investigation unfolded, so too
to the list of people who could have wanted payback
on the Rodents. Take Rusty Mongold, another local kid who
had gotten into an altercation with Chris Junior just two
(09:33):
weeks before the Rodents were murdered. Long gold Head posted
on Facebook that Chris Junior hid him with a car
and in his message, you know, he uses some pretty
tough language. I mean, Rusty was nineteen at the time,
and you know he's talking about I'm going to break
his fucking legs and curb stop his ass, and I
mean just sort of sort of nineteen year old bluster. Really,
(09:55):
the Rusty Mongold thing happened just two weeks before the murders,
so I mean, I think this was pretty obvious that
the investigators had to check that out. And of course
he got pulled over and was detained and even did
a DNA sample, But it was pretty clear that you'd
nothing to do with it. But you know, that kind
(10:17):
of language is certainly going to grab the attention of
the authorities, especially after something like this. But the authorities
finding no clear link between Rusty Mongold, the Gorman family,
and the road and murders, the feeling around Piketon was
still ominous. No one knew who could be responsible for
the mass murder, or even if the responsible parties lived
next door. Jeff Winkler fills us in on yet another
(10:42):
incident that happened leading up to the murders, according to
court documents, on February twenty fourth, and this was two
months before the murders, so two months before the murders.
In late February, Chris Junior was involved in a road
rage incident with a thirty three year old woman named
repect Allen. Apparents of the court records Rebecca had slapped
(11:03):
Chris Junior in the face, but she also made threats
against him and his mother, Dana, which were recorded on
a cell phone. Here's what we know about this. Dana Roden,
Chris Junior's mom, got involved as well, and Rebecca Allen
ultimately got two years probation, forty hours of community service,
and a restraining order against contacting Chris Junior and Dana Roden.
(11:26):
This was on April twentieth, twenty sixteen, one day before
the murders took place. There were definitely some scrapes, some posturing,
and yeah, some social media threats, But is that really
motive enough to murder eight people? Of course not, But
the timing of it is interesting. You know, as we
try to understand what's happened, it's important to know everything
(11:47):
this family was going through up until the murders, because
we don't know what's important until we know it's important.
But going back to Rebecca Allen and the road rage
incident for just one second. Leonard Manley, Danna's father, who
at this point was just trying to cope with the tragedy,
was quoted in the news as saying that Rebecca Allen
should be looked into with regards to the massacre Dania
(12:10):
Roden's family. The Manlies were deeply entrenched in the Rodent's
day to day lives and they were a key piece
of the investigation at first. Bobby Joe Manley, for example,
she's the one who discovered their bodies and also made
that first nine one one call. Here's investigative reporter Jodi Barr.
The days after this, the nine when one calls were
(12:30):
beginning to be produced, so then you could get a
picture of what happened that morning that you know, a
family member went into the first home and found the
first two dead, Gary and Chris Senior. Okay, that's idea. Okay,
what's your name my Bobby Stry, Yeah, what's your name? Christler?
(13:07):
That was Bobby Joe Manly. You hear about James Manley
going over to Dana's house, finding his sister, dad, his
niece and nephew. So you start getting some more pieces
to put together in this puzzle, and then you realize, well,
wait a minute, why were they there? Police want to
(13:27):
know that too. We found out from Lynn Manly that's
Dana Rodin's father, James Manley's father. That Bobby Joe and
James were both taken down into the Pike County Sheriff's
office and interrogated. So from the outset, when you look
at that and you go, well, obviously they had two
people in mind. These were the two people who made
(13:48):
the initial finds of the bodies that morning and made
those nine on one cause. And then we had gotten
word that investigators wanted to know who paid them to
murder their own family. Over the next few weeks, Bobby
Joe Manley has questioned several times these people are not
only being looked at in murder suspects, they're going through
(14:10):
the entire process. They're being interrogated, they're given polygraphs. I
can tell you I spoke with Bobby Joe Manley on
the porch of her father's home and she was She
told me that she was given three polygraph tests and
passed every one. As the suspicion surrounding Bobby Joe subsides,
(14:31):
authorities began taking a closer look at James Manley, and
it's not too long before they make a stunning discovery
about who he talked to on the night of the murders.
In the overnight hours at two am. This would have
been just for all we know, minutes before the murders
two in the morning. I mean the bodies were found,
you know, at sun up, but that at two in
the morning, James was texting with Jake Wagner. Jake obviously
(14:56):
now charged in these murders. We didn't know the context
of those texts, but we do know that happened, and
you know, just strange suspicions. And then James Manly took
a polygraph and failed that. We're going to take a
(15:18):
quick break here, we'll be back in a moment. Like
many of us, you might think identity theft will never
happen to you, but consider this. There's a new identity
theft victim every three seconds in the US. That's over
fifteen million people by the end of this year, equal
to the populations of New York, Los Angeles, and Chicago combined.
(15:41):
Even worse, identity theft victims often don't even know they're victims.
That's why LifeLock identity theft protection helps you identify threats,
even the ones that don't show up on a credit report,
like data breaches, fraudulent bank transactions, loan and credit card applications,
and crimes committed in your name. If your idea entity
is stolen, your own dedicated LifeLock US based restoration specialist
(16:04):
will work to fix it. No one can prevent all
identity theft, but LifeLock protects you in ways that you
simply can't on your own. Save up to twenty five
percent your first year at LifeLock dot com slash iHeart.
That's LifeLock dot com slash iHeart to save up to
twenty five percent. Identity theft protection starts here. He'll forget
(16:25):
about the video game you gave him on his birthday. Wow,
thanks grandpa, But he'll never forget how you invested in
his future. What the unstapp? Wow, thanks grandpa. Don't just
give them any gift, give them a gift that can
grow with them. Invite grandparents and family friends to contribute
(16:47):
to your child's future with the unstapp. Unst is an
investment account for kids that makes it easy to gift
funds that can be used for college tuition, their first home,
and more, just by sharing the link or include a
UNSQR code on party invitations for birthdays and holidays. For
a limited time, download the unst app and use the
(17:08):
code I Heart fifty at sign up to receive a
fifty dollars bonus when you fund your account. That's code
I heeart fifty when you sign up at une st
dot coo for a fifty dollars bonus. See terms and
conditions at uns dot coo. Curiosity Stream is the streaming
service for people who want to know more more about
(17:29):
our world and beyond. Curiosity Stream has the best collection
of documentary films and TV shows and now check out
Curiosity's new series, The Real Wild West. Rolling Stone magazine
says it's the history of the West. They usually don't
teach you the an mythology of the West left out
a lot of the people. American West is far more different,
(17:49):
far more diverse. Popould say they've never seen a black cowboy. Well,
we've been there, we've been doing it. I never really
learned about the Hispanic Mexican aspect of the story. This
is the history book, but did you know about these
other facts? Watch The Real Wild West now on Curiosity Stream.
Just go to curiosity stream dot com to sign up
or download the app now. With new titles dropping every week,
(18:12):
you'll never run out of things to watch, and with
monthly annual and bungled pricing plans. It's easy to find
one that works for you when your budget. Go to
curiosity stream dot com to satisfy your curiosity and sign
up today. How Deep does a Mother's Love Run? Now
streaming only on Hulu, Experience for yourself a real life
(18:33):
race against time by four mothers who went undercover. My
partner abducted our six year old son and took him
out of the country. This was a mother's worst nightmare.
I didn't know what to do, and we'll stop at nothing.
I knew something bad for the children they love. This
is the mission to get the child back. I was
so scared I would have to disguise myself to get him.
(18:55):
You're not keeping my child for incredible heart racing story.
I'm not a detective. I just wanted my family back together.
I had to live a double life to save my son.
This is the last chance to get my kids back,
and that's when I'll help breaks loose. There has to
be away, Go Go, Go. Experience the stunning new true
crime docuseries Mother Undercover. I wanted him to know you
(19:19):
mess with the wrong mother. Now streaming only on Whoever
Search Mother Undercover Here again is Jodie Barr commenting on
James Manley's failed polygraph. I don't know what to make
of that. You know what that means, failing a polygraph.
(19:41):
I have no idea because we don't know the questions
were asked without sufficient evidence to charge him. James Manley
is released, but police continue to keep an eye on him.
Something to think about is that no arrests were made
after this questioning or the alleged polygraph failure, So it's
not like the police found some sort of smoking gun
(20:01):
that implicated him in the crimes. Furthermore, in the state
of Ohio, polygraphic examinations are admitted under limited circumstances in
the court of law. In the state. Only if all parties,
including the defendant, defense attorney, and the prosecutor, agree in
advance to the admissibility of the results, will the court
be inclined to admit them. Plus, it's really not uncommon
(20:22):
for immediate family members, particularly those who have discovered bodies,
to be considered air quotes suspects at first. It's just
a natural place for most investigations to begin. All that's said,
I can only imagine how difficult that must have been
for the manlies. We found out later that you know,
he was. It was some respects a potential target of
(20:42):
the investigation because we know that investigators put a GPS
device underneath James Manley's pickup truck and for whatever reasons
they follow need to track him. And then James many
finds that this GPS tracker attached to the underside of
his pickup truck, he rips that off, and then he's
(21:03):
arrested for doing that. This all happens in May of
twenty seventeen, three hundred and ninety days after James Manley's
sister and her family were murdered. He's charged with two felonies,
tampering with evidence and vandalism, both counts for removing the
tracking device on his car. I can remember, you know,
(21:23):
getting that news late late in the day and driving
straight to Ross County, Ohio to the jail where James
Manley was booked and you know, being held overnight or
waiting a bond hearing. But on the way there, you're
trying to replay these conversations in your mind that you know,
what were the scenarios that involved James. Why is there
a GPS tracker on the brother of the a dead family.
(21:48):
I mean, this was hitting really close to home. So again,
every trip to Pike County was this cloud of suspicion
and confusion. You wonder if they arrested him on those
charges to try to just bring him in and hopes
that they would then question him and he would admit
to something murder related. You know, that was a suspicion.
You know, it's like, man, where is this going to
(22:10):
end up? You know, because the story is horrible and
horrific enough. But six days after his arrest, the charges
against James Manley are dismissed. It's another dead end for investigators.
Another leading theory at the time was the involvement with
the drug cartel. The Rodents did have marijuana growing on
(22:32):
their property, and it was not just a few plants
here and there in the window. It was a lot.
A law enforcement source has confirmed that investigators found some
two hundred marijuana plants on all of the properties. The
same source said that the size of the operation indicates
it was being grown for sale and not for personal use.
And just to put that into perspective, each plant could
(22:52):
produce around one pound of marijuana and a pound of
high grade quality marijuana had a street value of around
two thousand dollars at the time, meaning that the Rodents
had in their possession four hundred thousand dollars worth of marijuana.
I think it's worth noting also that the unemployment rate
and PIKED in Ohio is one hundred and fifteen percent
higher than the national average, and I share that simply
(23:12):
to say, by all accounts, the Rodents were very hard
working people, and the fact that there was this marijuana
grow operation in their backyard kind of erased the entire investigation,
as if the Rodent family was just a bunch of
drug dealers who had it coming, and based on our research,
that really doesn't add up. It should be noted that
around the same time as the murders, marijuana was being
(23:35):
legalized for medicinal use in the state of Ohio, So
in theory, the Rodents could have been growing the crop
to be distributed for people who were prescribed marijuana legally
to treat things like cancer and Alzheimer's. Also, when Jeff
and I were in Piked in the last time, somebody
said something to us in passing, and it's always sort
of stuck with me regarding the marijuana grow operation. On
(23:55):
the one hand, if it was a small operation, how
would that possibly come institute a drug cartel hit of
this size? Four different locations. It felt very personal. Each
crime scene seemed to tell a story of sorts, not
totally the moo of the drug cartel. In our research
on the flip, if it was a large scale operation,
they would have needed a lot of equipment, specialized lighting,
(24:17):
and that lighting likely would have caused a bit of
a surge in electricity that would have been noticeable by
the electric company number one and number two. It also
would have been very bright. Where they lived was a
very rural road. It's dark, there's no street lights. How
would a grow operation of that size go unnoticed? Yeah,
(24:37):
and based on all of our research, if it really
was the drug cartel, they would have killed the dogs
and the kids. They leave no one behind. I think
it's okay for us to confirm that we did find
marijuana in three locations. There's a grow operations. Our producer
(25:00):
Jeff Shane spoke to investigative journalist James Pilcher, who was
in piked in just after the announcement was made. That
obviously feeled even more speculation that these were outside operators.
Possibly was as a drug deal gone bad, or was
somebody trying to take over their turf. All kinds of
rumors started to slow after that disclosure. So this idea
(25:21):
that like a drug cartel being a potential culprit, it
does sound crazy. The small town infiltrated by you know,
international drug dealers in the middle of Appalachian in southern Ohio.
You know, but if it turned out to be that,
we would not have been suppressed because Mexican drug cartels
had done a lot of activity in southern Ohio, in
(25:41):
Pike County, in Siotta County, and in Ross County. In fact,
in August twenty twelve, law enforcement officers found a major
marijuana grow site in Pike County. It had suspected ties
to a Mexican drug cartel. During that raid, officials destroyed
about twelve hundred marijuana plants and found two abandoned campsites
(26:02):
that they believe belonged to Mexican nationals. The main route
from southern Ohio to Columbus, which is the next biggest
city next to Cincinnati, cuts right all through there, So
you have those people coming in and out. Now, were
the rodents involved directly in the narcotics business. There were
(26:24):
indications that they were involved in some drug deals and
drug trade with marijuana. The Rods had attack dogs, which
again belies that all American image, which means what did
they have to hide? They had attack dogs, the security cameras,
there was a lot of security at that place. They
wanted to protect what they had. Now does that mean
(26:46):
that they were doing anything wrong? Not necessarily, but it
certainly raised a lot of questions. Journalist Jodie Barr walked
off through the logic of the drug cartel theory. As
the months war on, no one has been arrested, no
one charged, no people named as persons of interest. You
really started to wonder, you know, maybe this drug cartel
(27:10):
things there was something too that they definitely knew how
to kill people. You know, you're looking for signs of
the drug cartel, and then you find Kenneth Rowden with
what appeared to be a gunshot in the head, but
that there were dollar bills or some sort of paper
(27:30):
money spread around the body. Was that a sign? What
did that mean? You know, as you know a reporter,
you're steadying back trying to draw conclusion or at least
a lead from what this meant? I mean, what does
that mean? There's a body lying there with money on it, so,
of course a drug cartel. At that point in time,
you couple with the Attorney General announcing that they found
(27:52):
commercial grow operations, it made sense. Let's stop here for
another quick break. We'll be back in a moment. He'll
forget about the video game you gave him on his birthday. Wow,
(28:13):
thanks grandpa, but he'll never forget how you invested in
his future with the unst app. Wow, thanks grandpa. Don't
just give them any gift, give them a gift that
can grow with them. Invite grandparents and family friends to
contribute to your child's future with the unst app. Unst
(28:33):
is an investment account for kids that makes it easy
to gift funds that can be used for college tuition,
their first home, and more. Just by sharing the link
or include a UNQR code on party invitations for birthdays
and holidays. For a limited time, download the unst stapp
and use the code I Heart fifty at sign up
to receive a fifty dollars bonus when you fund your account.
(28:56):
That's code I Heart fifty when you sign up at
une sto for a fifty dollars bonus. See terms and
conditions at unest dot coo. Curiosity Stream is the streaming
service built by and for people who want to know
more more about our world and beyond. Curiosity Stream has
(29:17):
the best collection of documentary films and TV shows about
everything from the history of human migration to the future
of space travel. With thousands of titles, curiosity has something
for everyone science, wildlife, travel, human stories, culture, and pretty
much anything you're curious about. Watch Curiosity Stream on your
(29:39):
TV or any digital device all around the world. Just
go to curiosity stream dot com to sign up or
download the app. Now you'll have access to brand new
titles dropping every week, filled with new discoveries and new
stories that will open your eyes to the world around us.
And with monthly, annual, and bundled pricing plans, it's easy
to find one that works for you and your budget.
(30:00):
Go to curiosity stream dot com to satisfy your curiosity
and sign up today. How Deep does a Mother's Love Run?
Now streaming only on Hulu. Experience for yourself a real
life race against time by four mothers who went undercover.
My ex partner abducted our six year old son and
(30:20):
took him out of the country. This was a mother's
worst nightmare. I didn't know what to do, and we'll
stop at nothing. I knew something better for the children
they love. This is the mission to get the child back.
I was so scared I would have to disguise myself
to get him. You're not keeping my child for incredible
heart racing stories. I'm not a detective. I just wanted
(30:43):
my family back together. I had to live a double
life to save my son. This is the last chance
to get my kids back, and that's when all help
breaks loose. It has to be away. Go Go, Go.
Experience the stunning new true crime docuseries Mother Undercover. I
wanted him to know, you mess with the wrong mother,
now streaming only on whoever search Mother Undercover up. You
(31:08):
will fail. So what everybody does, but your jim your watch,
your yoga pants, They pretend you won't. So when you
miss a day, eat the pancakes, give up on a workout,
you failed. Seriously, What the hell we're body? We've been
a part of that too, but not anymore at body
(31:31):
or rejecting perfection, an embracing reality, not in a pizza
Monday kind of way, in a loving your whole life
kind of way. In this workout is fun and it's
okay if I take a week off kind of way,
in an I'm eating healthy and it's okay if I
indulge kind of way, in a I like myself. No
matter what kind of way. Yeah, you will fail, we
(31:55):
all will. But we're not going to let that be
the end. And see that we're already making progress. So
let's keep going. We are Body. Start your free trial
at body dot com. That's Bodi dot com. The discovery
(32:15):
of the Rodents grow operation didn't just complicate the case
and who might be responsible. It forced the residence of
Pyton to reconsider their feelings for the family. As soon
as Dwine and Reader made that announcement of the commercial
grow operations that appeared to change the entire public perception
of these murders. The empathy for this family, and even
(32:37):
the monetary donations that were coming in to help bury
these people, all of that stopped. There was a large
reward put up by Jeff Ruby, a restaurant owner in Cincinnati,
that was rescinded that day. The public support they were
getting almost vanished that day. I mean, these were eight
innocent people, and then sort of flifted on his head
(33:00):
that you know, these were eight people potentially involved in
some large drug operation and the people seemingly just instantly
stopped caring. And you know, all that momentum the family
had of you know, the public being interested in this
by trying to solve it, taking care of this, you know,
these kids who were left trying to bury these eight people.
(33:21):
I mean, that's a large expense that vanished that day,
and that was over as soon as that announcement was made. However,
those closest to the family never believed that Cartel was
behind the murders. Is Kenneth Roden's daughter. Kenneth was that
eighth victim, the final victim found. I worked out an
interview with Kendred and her mother at their home, and
(33:43):
I mean, through that interview we finally got to look
at how close his family really was. Kendred just going
through her phone with her She had pictures with Hannah,
she had pictures with Chris Junior, she had pictures with Dana,
her father obviously was a large part of the photos
stored on her phone. I mean, they looked like a
normal family. I mean there was nothing in those pictures
(34:07):
that would indicate that, you know, a week later, eight
of these people in these pictures would no longer draw
the breath of life. Man. You just it was nothing
to indicate that. And you're looking at these pictures and
you're looking for some clue, You're looking for that sign
from Kendrem when you're invited into her home. You saw
none of that. I mean, it was almost like, That's
(34:31):
why it's almost unbelievable that it even happened, because when
you look at these photographs and you talk to these people,
they're just like anybody else you'd ever talk to, a
typical rural American family who rose to this notorious, you know,
platform through the nightly news coming out and telling the
(34:52):
world about their darkest hour. Eight people murdered in their
homes while they slept, children spared covered with blood. And
it's like you try to reconcile what you saw on
those photographs and the story that Kendra Roden was telling
about this family to the picture that you now have
of them murdered in these homes, apparently involved in some
(35:14):
sort of commercial drug industry, and then you try to
put all that together. I mean, I don't know how
the hell you figure that out. It was so confusing.
So if it wasn't a drug cartel, who was it.
Let's shift our focus back to the Wagners for a minute.
Could there be other motives aside from the custs dispute
(35:36):
between Jake Wagner and Hannah Rodin. As we found out
from speaking to journalist Jeff Winkler, there were more connections
between the Rodens and the Wagners than just Hannah and Jake. Obviously,
the families shared a grandchild together, so there was just
a lot of interaction between the families. But as the
investigation went on, you know, there was a clear sort
(35:57):
of trail between Christopher Roden Senior and Bill Wagner. They
had been long time acquaintances, possibly friends, and also business partners.
They were just you know, some little boy entrepreneurs. These
are multi generational families in the same area, so yeah,
they just again that sort of mix of family and
(36:20):
friends and neighbors, business partners. It all sorts of blends
in together. Angela Wagner even had said to the press
that her and her husband and Chris Senior were longtime
friends like they were. The Wagners. Were presenting them as
close allies, and I think some of that was, of course,
is trying to, you know, sort of trade the family
as not adversarial to the Rodents. But they had something
(36:43):
to have fallen out before the murders. Attorney and legal
commentator Mike Allen philed us in back in mid April
two thousand and sixteen. Supposedly there was a fight between
Chris Senior and Billy Wagner. Witnesses say ended with Billy
threatening to quote come back and finish them all. Nobody
(37:11):
seems to know what the fight was about or what
caused it. But you know, these two families, from everything
that I've seen, were probably not shy about taking care
of business if they felt somebody abused them or their family.
So could this all have stemmed from some kind of
(37:32):
business arrangement gone wrong? Though we can't be positive. One
thing we do know is that the detail of Christinior's
autopsy seems to indicate that his death was much different
than the other seven victims. Here's James Pilcher speaking to
Jeff again. Of all the crimeses that day, like his
was known to be the worst. Yeah, he was shot
the most first of all, he was shot nine times,
(37:52):
possibly because he was trying to fight back, but possibly
because you know, the vendetta was mostly against him, or
that he was the primary target, I should say. And
then they positioned his body in a certain way and
actually drug his body away from where he had originally fallen,
so that gave investigators even more of an indication that
(38:14):
this was personal. An anonymous Wagner family relative told Jeff
that the situation between the Wagners and the Rodents was
reaching a boiling point. This was just before the Rodents
were found dead. I knew that they were the families Hanness,
the Rodents and you know my family. They were fighting.
There was a lot of tension there, bad blood there,
(38:36):
but I never thought in a million years that they
had anything to do with that. To me, it's just
it's so overwhelming. It's there's a feeling that is almost indescribable.
It's kind of like, you know, you don't know how
to react, so you're constantly at least I am at this,
like it said, like it does a war with my emotions,
my feelings because I beloved him so much. She know
(38:58):
when I care about him, and they our family, that's
your family, So it's hard to just turn your back
and be like, Okay, well you're a freaking monster, so
I want nothing to do with you, and I don't
love you no more, I don't care about you no more.
So it seems like your relationship with Angela and her
family really changed and never really was the same. Yep,
(39:20):
it did. It was absolutely mind blowing. I just couldn't
I couldn't picture it because I knew them completely different people,
you know what I mean, Like I would have never
pictured Angela being capable, or or the boys of any
of that. When we first heard about the road and murders,
(39:45):
we were shocked at the brutality of it all. And
when we first got to piked In, we couldn't believe
that these murders took place in this community. But upon
speaking to residents and learning more about the town, we
discovered that the Rodents were not the first murder victims
who called piked In home. You know, if you look
back through the history of piked and there's quite a
(40:07):
bit of things that just happened that, you know, there's
no explanation for get swept under the rug. I don't know.
I think there's just more evil there than than just
what happened to those eight. Pike County is beautiful. It's
a beautiful place, but there's a lot of dirty people
here too. For the town that we you know the
(40:31):
size of our town, there's been a lot of murders
here that have not been solved. More on that next week.
Piked and Massacre is executive produced by Stephanie Lydecker and
me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by executive producer
(40:54):
Jared Aston. Additional producing by Jeff Shane and Andrew Becker.
The Piked in Massacre is a production of iHeartRadio and
Katie Studios. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. How long was Neil Armstrong actually on
(41:16):
the Moon? When did Europe start speaking English? Did Marco
Polo really go to China? Curiosity Stream is the streaming
service for all things history, plus science, wildlife and more.
What's the real story behind the Mona, Lisa? We've got that?
What caused the collapse of Rome? We know? Where? Did
we find Mankind's earliest ancestor? Come find out? From Egypt
to Weinstein Curiosity Stream is the place for history with monthly, annual,
(41:41):
and bundled plans. Find one for you at curiosity stream
dot com. How Deep does a Mother's Love Run? Now
streaming only on Hulu. Experience a race against time by
four mothers who went undercover. My ex partner abducted our
six year old son and took him out of the country.
This was a mother's worst nightmare, and we'll stop at nothing.
I knew something better for the children they love. I
(42:03):
was so scared, and that's when all hell breaks loose.
Mother Undercover. I wanted him to know you mess with
the wrong mother. Now streaming only and Hulu search Mother Undercover.
When we protect the ocean, we protect the creatures we
love and ourselves, from sea otters to penguins to the
always grumpy looking giant sea bass. These animals need a
(42:24):
healthy ocean to thrive, and so do we. It takes
a community dedicated to nurturing our favorite places to ensure
these animals big too small, as well as other crucial
sea life like help anemones and jellies can flourish, and
a healthy ocean helps us all join our mission to
inspire conservation of the Ocean by visiting us at Monterey
Bay Aquarium dot org, slash share your voice. Since her
(42:46):
role as White House correspondent, Caitlyn Collins has never been
afraid to dict deep. She's a reliable, deeply sourced reporter
and is always willing to hold the powerful accountable. On
her new CNN show, The Source with Caitlyn Collins, Caitlyn
is bringing that to acious spirit to prime time. She's
chasing the facts, connecting with her rolodex of sources, and
pulling the threads of a story together right up to
(43:07):
the minute she goes live, so viewers are getting the
very latest. The Source with Caitlin Collins weeknights at nine
pm Eastern only on CNN
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.