May 19, 2021 • 50 mins
Special prosecutors described the Wagners as “cult like.” In episode two, we take a deeper look at the family that’s allegedly behind the massacre, speaking with a Pike County local who has an intimate connection to them. We also dissect the prosecution's theories on the family’s complex dynamics. On the surface, the Wagners may have seemed all American but behind closed doors, they were anything but. What we found out was far darker and more disturbing than anything we ever could have imagined.
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dot com. Welcome to the Piketon Massacre, a production of
iHeartRadio and Katie Studios grown up around him. Here's such
(02:09):
a sweetheart and everything. Jake Wagner, he originally pleaded not
guilty to the murder of eight Rodent family members, saying
him say that he was guilty, I am guil It
just gives you a complete chills. Admitted to personally killing
five of the eight into trying to burn and get
rid of Avid. And he'll now avoid the death penalty
and spend the rest of his life in prison. If
(02:30):
I've done something to making that outrageously mad, he could
have killed me too. Wagners showed a little to no
emotion in cour today, just answering yes or no to
the judge. But his life was controlled all the time.
Special Prosecutor said the Wagners were a cult like family.
I think it was still Angelo behind the scene, control
(02:51):
and everything, like a little puppet master. This is the
Pikedon Massacre. Returned to Pike County season two, Episode two,
Cinnamon and hay M Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at
Katie Studios with Stephanie Ledecker and Jeff Shane. On April
(03:11):
twenty second, twenty twenty one, Jake Wagner pleaded guilty to
twenty three counts, including eight aggravated murder charges, in the
Rodin murder case. The motive behind the killings back in
twenty sixteen, according to prosecutors, was a custody dispute between
Jake and victim hannahme Rodin over their young daughter. As
it stands, the other three Wagners accused in the murders,
(03:33):
Jake's father Billy, mother Angela, and brother George, have all
pled not guilty. The day that Jake appeared in court
for his plea deal, we caught up with Christina Howard.
Her sister Tabby had a relationship with the accused eldest son,
George Wagner. The two were married and had a son together,
but eventually divorced. When you found out for a fact
(03:55):
that Jake was guilty, what was your reaction? My reaction
was like wow, in a way, kind of speechless, because
me and Hamm were friends when we were younger. You
never really think about somebody who is or once was
a friend, being able to take so many lives like that.
(04:22):
Last season, Christina told us a little bit about a
custody dispute that ensued between Tabby and George Wagner. After
the couple split up. It piqued our interest when we
heard about it, since it foreshadowed what was to come
for hannahme Roden. Christina was a little hesitant to divulge
too much last time we spoke, but in light of
Jake's please, she chose to delve into Tabby's story a
little more, and what we found is far darker and
(04:45):
much more disturbing than we could have ever imagined. What
follows is Christina's recollection of the events. Christina's relationship with
the Wagner family goes back to her childhood. Her mother
began working for grandmother of the acute used Frederica Wagner,
whom Christina affectionately refers to as Freddie. When she was
a kid, she was a grandmother too in a way.
(05:08):
I would go to work with my mother and I
would hang around Freddie a lot, and she treated my
family pretty kindly. On holidays, she would always get me
and my sister's presents, and I have Christmas dinners and
Easter dinners, and it was like, you know, us being
(05:29):
part of her family, and it was pretty nice. Eventually,
Christina and her sister Tabby met Frederica's grandsons, George and
Jake Wagner. Christina told Jeff that George and Tabby hit
it off and soon became a couple. They got together
when they were young teens. I think my sister was
like thirteen fourteen, you know, and they ended up liking
(05:50):
each other. Did you think that George was bad news?
He was a little bit of a travelmaker. Christina would
often tag along when Tabby went to visit George at
the Wagner's home. They had like this pretty little like
house up on the hill, and they had like their
own little pond up there. It was pretty isolated. They
(06:11):
had a privacy gate at the bottom that in order
to get in, somebody up at the top of the
house would have to come down and unlock it. Me, George, Jake,
and Tabby we would like go outside and you know,
do young dumb teenager kid type stuff and play tag,
(06:33):
jump on the trampoline and the treehouse and all that.
It was really fun and we could be as rowdy
as a noisy as we wanted because they didn't have
no neighbors whatsoever. While George and Tabby were hanging out,
Christina struck up a friendship with Jake Wagner. Jake was
actually a really nice kid. Me and him were kind
of friends. It was pretty cool. He was really nice,
(06:55):
kind of shy, who played video games, all that good stuff.
As a kid. Jake struck Christina as kind and almost
unusually empathetic. I remember in Jake's bedroom, you know, he
had his own little peev and video game system and
all that stuff, and he had this one stuff duck,
(07:15):
and it was like hanging on the wall or something,
and it kind of gave me the creeps whenever I'm
a little kid. And he was sweet enough to take
it off his wall and hide it in his closet
or something, because the game of the creeps. The more
time Christina spent at the home, the more familiar she
became with the boy's mother, accused murderer, Angela Wagner, she
sometimes referred to as Angie. Christina told Stephanie that on
(07:39):
the surface, everything about Angela Wagner seemed to personify the
typical all American mom. Out front was like this nice
little walk away with flowers and you know, the white
picket fence except in the country cotton deal. And then
like you go and find the house or the kitchen,
(08:00):
and then right beside the kitchen of the living room
and it's pretty big. They got like this huge section
all and a nice big TV. And the house smelled
like it kind of smelled like cinnamon mixed with hay.
I don't know if she could really imagine that, but like,
take some may got around everywhere and sprinkle some cinnamon
(08:24):
in it, and that's what it smelled. Watch Angela would
make us some snacks or some lunch or whatever. I
think even like maybe twice she made us dinner. It
was pretty good. She sounds like a homemaker, which is
again what makes it so shocking to imagine that she
had the ability to do something so horrific. Yeah, but
(08:48):
the more time Christina spent at the Wagner home, the
relationship between the Wagner boys and their mother came into focus.
They were always around their mom, no matter what their
mom said, went always. If they wanted to play outside longer,
if Angie said no, it was no. I yes, they
(09:08):
wanted to play their video games longer. If Andy said no,
it was no. Even if like they slightly disobeyed her,
she put her foot down, meaning like you better listen
to me, or I'm gonna book your butt, and they're
just like, all right, Mama, it didn't matter what Angie said.
That's what went. As the kids got older, Angela Wagner
(09:31):
seems to take more control over her boys lives, especially Jake.
We had a job somewhere and his mom like actually
made him quit the job because she said that the
job wasn't good enough for him, meaning Angela Wagner. Jake
Wagner's mom said, this job's over, it's not good enough
for you. Yeah. It's like, you know, your mom controls
(09:55):
your whole entire life. And it wasn't long before Angela
turned her controlling ways towards Christina's family. Angie made George
break up with Tabby because Angie didn't like my sister
because you know, George and Jake were Mama's boys and
ain't nothing in the world gonna be able to steal
her boys from her. She was just so controlling. Soon,
(10:19):
Angela Wagner's true colors began to shine through her all
American facade. In some photos that I've seen of Angela,
she looks smiley and she's pretty and just looks like
an all American mom. But then in other pictures like
her mugshot, for example, she's sort of grimacing and has
a scary vibe. What was she like in prison? In person,
(10:43):
she was the type you know, to talk about every
day stuff like how you do, and how's your family
and everything else like that. But it felt like whenever
she would talk to you, it felt like an act
because she was putting on like you know, she was
looking down on the kind of thing is At least
(11:04):
that's what I always picked up. She seemed like she
was put on a math makes people thank so she's
all right or whatever. But I never really did like her.
She just spooks me. After the Wagner family was arrested
in twenty eighteen, the family's unusual dynamic became a key
(11:26):
building block in the States case against Angela, Billy Jake,
and George Wagner. On August thirty first of last year,
George Wagner appeared in court for a pre trial hearing.
Special Agent Ryan Scheiterer of the Ohio Bureau of Criminal
Investigation testified that day. He provided details of what authorities
had uncovered about the Wagner's over two years of investigating.
(11:47):
Here's Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa questioning agent Scheiterer, how would you
describe the Wagner family. The Wagner family from what we
found through the investigation as well as their own admittances,
they're very close. When I say close, they lived together.
They've always lived together. There's not been a period of
time where George Wagner has not lived with his brother
(12:08):
or his mother. But their finances are intermingled. They worked together,
They've always worked together. They homeschool together, they raised their
kids together. Everything is done together. So from a birth
until the day they were arrested, they lived together. Yes.
Do you have an opinion as whether or not one
(12:28):
of them might strike out and go commit some Haynes
tiding with the out and the others knowing about it
or participating in it. No, we have an informant who
says that every decision within that family is made as
a family decision. Years after Angela Wagner forced George Wagner
and Tabby Howard's relationship to end, the couple rekindled their romance.
(12:51):
Soon after, Victim Hanname Rodins started going out with Jake
Wagner and the Rodens, Wagner's and Howard's became very close.
Hannah's brother Victim Frankie Rodin even joined the Phray. Hannah
and Tabby were best friends, and Hannah and Jake were together,
and Tabby and George were together, and Frankie would hang
out with him a lot because they were like best
(13:13):
friends with Frankie, I suppose, so they were always like
going out hunting and fishing and stuff. Then one day,
Tabby Howard came to her family with some surprising news.
She and George Wagner were getting married. We didn't know
anything about it until shortly before it, so Karen something
(13:34):
like us, like, wow, that's crazy. Instead of excitement, Christina
felt something much different based on her time spent around
the family and accused mother Angela Wagner in particular. It
just didn't feel right to me, and I thought I'd
speak my mind about it. I told her, I said, listen,
you don't want to marry him, And she said, well
(13:57):
why not? I said, because his mom is very controlling.
I said, you want to wait a few years and
see how things go before you, you know, jump into
getting married to him and stuff. And she said, well,
you're just full of it. You don't know what you're
talking about. We love each other and everything, and Angie's
(14:18):
just trying to look out for me. So towards that part,
I feel like Angie, you know, like kind of turned
her against her family a bit more of like a
I don't need you and I'm gonna spend my time
(14:40):
with my new family. I get want her to get
married because of the way I felt, but I felt
like it wasn't my place, because you know, intervene. If
she's happy, let her be. If not, she'll figure it out.
On July first, twenty twelve, all three families gathered for
(15:01):
Tabby Howard and George Wagner's wedding. That was a normal,
pretty wedding. It was kind of country because you know type.
She had a camouflage dress and George she had a
camo tugs. Everybody's camouflage crazy around here. They love it.
Hanging up, you have somebody what their favorite collars and
(15:24):
they're like, oh, it's camouflage. Me and two of my
sisters and Hannah or her bridesmaids. The bridesmaids we wore
black dresses. And Jake was George's best man. Obviously, the
Wagoners were there. There was Freddy, George and Angela and
(15:44):
Billy and then some of the other Rodents were there
and I was walking down the aisle with Frankie. They
had a smash cake I guess you'd call it, you know,
where you smashing into each other's faces. It was a
really good wedding. Talk last episode about the photo of
the Rodents and Wagner's from Tabby and George's wedding, and
(16:04):
we can't stop looking at it because it's just so chilling.
The happiness on everyone's face is palpable. But Christina now
sees details in the pictures she never saw before. In
my mind, I feel like the people in the picture
should be sorted out differently, you know, like in this placement,
(16:26):
it's like Tabby and George just sent off to Spike
because even though they're getting married, they're not the like
the main attraction. And Angie is just like top center
wearing that white dress, like laughing in their face like
ha ha, y'all are beneath me. Yeah. I was gonna
(16:46):
ask you because people have different views. But some people
think you don't wear white to anyone else's wedding. You know,
why would aye wear white to another person's wedding? I mean,
you're not supposed to do that, because that is like
supposed to be like bad juju on the married couple,
like saying that I hope that your wedding don't wind
long kind of thing. It's clear that George Wagner and
(17:11):
Tabby Howard's wedding marked an inflection point in the lives
of all three families. After that day, nothing would ever
be the same. Shortly after the wedding, we stopped hearing
from her. The last thing that we heard from Tabby
was that she was pregnant was my nephew, and she
(17:33):
was given birth to him, and that was it. We
didn't get no pictures of him, no nothing. We didn't
hear anything from Tabby, nothing from Angela or George or anybody.
They just like straight up disappeared. We're going to take
(17:56):
a quick break here. We'll be back in a moment.
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(19:02):
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(21:41):
Nobody knew where they were, nobody knew what they were
doing or anything, and it won't like that for a
couple of years. Everybody was just so concerned about my
sister because we're like, you know, we literally have not
heard a thing from her. Then one night, Tabby suddenly
(22:03):
it was a call, like a random call in the
middle of the night from a gas station, from a
number we didn't know, and she's calling us, telling us, hey,
can you come get me. I'm here at this gas station,
and you know, we're freaking out, like, what's going on.
We ain't heard nothing from you in a few years.
She said, I don't really have time to explain, can
(22:24):
come get me and all that. So we packed up
in the car. It was me, my mom and dad
to go get my sister. And then we get there
and she's bawling her eyes out. She rode there in
the middle of the night. It was raining cats and
dogs outside. She's all wet and cold. She rode there
(22:46):
on a bike, and the police showed up and put
my sister in a car in the cock car, asking
her what was going on and everything, and apparently he
and George got into a fight. Angie called the cops
on her and said that she was beating George and
(23:09):
hitting was a two boy four and everything else, and
tried to stab him with scissors and all this, And
Tabby said that that wasn't how it happened. She said
she was you know, I guess you got into a
fight with George and Angie and George wouldn't like let
(23:30):
her go and get his hands off of her. George
didn't have any marks on him to prove that Tabby
had beaten him. Tabby didn't have any marks on her
to prove that he was putting his hands on her.
So nobody got arrested, just Tabby just got questioned and
all that, and then you know, she comes home with us,
(23:52):
and you know, we're sitting there trying to catch up
on everything with Tabby. Howard told her family that it
was deeply disturbing. Here's Christina's recollection of her sister's story.
According to Tabby, Angie wouldn't let her like have a
phone nan. She always said that Tabby was crazy, and
(24:15):
she was telling us all about how she was controlling,
and Tabby said that she wasn't allowed to, you know,
do anything with her kid, and Angie always said, no,
you're not, you're crazy, You're an unfit mother. She said
that she would all the time tell George about what's
(24:35):
going on and everything, and George was like, oh, it's okay,
you're just being dramatic. Mom wouldn't do that to you,
and it's all for your own good blah blah blah.
We're just looking out for you. But why would they
do that? What would they have to gain from, you know,
(24:58):
sitting there keeping my sisters they basically a prisoner and
you know, sitting there like mentally abusing her and everything else.
What would they have the game from it? Other than
you know, my nephew. Christina's story about Tabby's escape from
the Wagner household may sound outrageous. However, it was convincing
(25:20):
enough for Agent Scheiterer to testify about it in court
during George Wagner's hearing last year. Was George ever married? Yes?
Who is he married to Tabitha? And did he still
live with the family at the time during the time
he was married to Tabitha? Yes, okay, So Tabitha lived
with them? Yes, okay? And are you aware of what
(25:45):
happened that ended that relationship? Yes? What happened? She fled
the relationship. There was an incident on one particular day,
her and George had gotten into an argument. Scheiderer included
a few frightening details that Christina hadn't told us. Eventually,
(26:05):
there was a comment by Angelo that she was going
to kill Tamithas so she fled to a gas station
and ultimately never returned, And actually specifically, she first hit
on the property until nightfall and then drove to a
gas station and made her escape that way and never
went back after that. Corrupt Soon after Tabby Howard fled
(26:27):
the Wagner's household, the family became too much for victim
Hanname Rodin to bear as well. Hannah. I guess she
told my sister that that was really courageous of her.
She was proud of her. She was saying that she
was tired of it, tired of always being controlled and
told what to do and everything. So Hannah decided, you know,
(26:49):
that she was going to leave too. It seems that
Hanname Rodin left Jake Wagner due to the same reasons
Tabby Howard left George. Some of these details were illuminated
at that same he for George Wagner last year. Here's
Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa questioning agent Ryan Scheiderer about some messages
Hannah may had written. There were two other Rodent family members,
(27:10):
and where about Jake, their breakup and her relationship with
new boyfriend Charlie Gilly. Were you aware why Hannah May
left Jake domestic violence issues between Jacobs solving her okay?
And you observed specific communications about that, Yes, she made
(27:32):
it aware, she made people aware of it, yes, okay.
Did she also make comments about the Wagner family as
a whole being controlling? Yes. After she had left Jake,
she started seeing another individual and ultimately conceived a second
child with that individual, correct, yes, okay. And that was
(27:56):
who Charlie Guilley okay. And are you aware as to
whether or not Hannah told Jake that she was pregnant
and that she also told him who the father of
the child was. She told Jake as well as Angela,
that she was pregnant and it was Charlie Gilly's child, okay,
(28:17):
During that time after she was pregnant Charlie Gilly's child.
In the months leading up to the homicides, did she
make it clear to Jake that they were not getting
back together? Very clear? Okay? And had he asked her
to engage in dialogue with an attorney in order to
(28:42):
try to work out custody between them, Yes, she made
attempts to get that done, yes, okay. And what was
she interested in doing that. By the time hannahme Rodin left,
Tabby Howard was in the middle of her own custody
battle with Jake's brother, George Wagner. Well, we don't know
all the details of George Wagner and Tabby's custody case.
(29:04):
There is evidence to support Christina's account of it. It
was a preview of what would come to bear for
Hanna May in the following months. My sister was gonna
do joint custody. My mom tried to help my sister
go through court and all that, with all that, you know,
trying to help her, and my sister told my mom
she said, no, it's okay, Angie will help me out
(29:27):
with it. And why she trusted Angie with it is
beyond me. And why she's still wanted to trust her
was court. I don't know. I don't know what it
was running through tabbith head, But somehow she got Tabby
to sign some paperwork saying that George would get full
(29:47):
custody of my nephew and that Tabby would only get
visitation rights like on their terms. She wasn't allowed to
leave the property. What's my nephew, Tabby Howard's custody story
was also highlighted by Agent Scheiderer. Last year, there was
(30:10):
a divorce with some child custody issues where ultimately she
was forced to give up all control of her son
to George. So she gave up all of her parental rights. Okay,
and when you see she was forced too, did someone
who would have gone to her head? No? Okay? But
in fact, what she prosed in the custody proceedings and
(30:32):
not represented by an attorney correct? Okay? And what George
was Yes. Despite the Wagner's repeated attempts to keep Tabby
away from her son, she tried to visit him as
much as she could. Whenever she would try to reach
out to George like hey, can I come visit my son,
Angela would get on there and be like, oh, he's
(30:55):
not your son anymore. You might have gave bart to him,
but on his mother because I take care of em
and all these just nasty things. We're going to take
a quick break here. We'll be back at a moment.
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a Full House Rewatch podcast is here. Join us as
hosts Jody Sweeten and Andrea Barber look back on their
journey together as the iconic characters we all love, Stephanie
(33:59):
Tanner and Kimmy Gibbler. Here's a quick preview, brought to
you by the Hunday two Soon. We spent our entire
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but becoming besties whenever the cameras weren't rolling, and now,
thirty five years later, it's our biggest adventure yet watching
the original series together from beginning to end, seasons one
through eight, from adorable childhood to those awkward teen years
(34:20):
and beyond what awkward teen years? Ye, Geek Burger Andrea.
We are bringing back the Milkman, the Paperboy and Evening DV.
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we'll take a trip down memory lane together. You can
(34:41):
listen to how Rude Tanta Ritos on the iHeartRadio app
or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by
the Hunday two Soon it's your journey. Tabby Howard made
one last valiant effort to see her son. It was
(35:02):
an Easter because I remember my sister made her son
an Easter basket, you know, wanting to give it to
him for Easter and everything. I went there with her.
It was me her and my mom, and my mom
stayed in the car and I got out of the
(35:23):
car with Tabby and we walked up her you know,
knocker on the door because she had previously called George
j askin him if she could come see her son
and give him an Easter basket. He said, yeah, that's fine,
come on over and you can see your son and
(35:48):
give him his Easter basket. And she said all right.
So we went there, and then once we got there,
Angie answered the door, and you know, Tabby said, oh,
I'm here to see my son. Can I have a
few minutes, you know, spend a few minutes with him
for Easter? She said, let me go get George, and
(36:08):
then she slammed the door, and my sister's faith and
we're sitting out there wait in a good ten fifteen minutes,
and then George comes out. She asked George, she said,
what was that about why was your mom, you know,
being hateful. I didn't do anything. And he was like, oh,
(36:29):
she's just not in a good move today. And she said,
where's our son? You know, I'd like to see him.
You said I could come see him. He said, oh,
he's in there with a fever right now. He's sick
from staying up all night and day throwing a fit
and everything else, you know, just coming up with another excuse.
(36:51):
And then my sister started crying. She said, well, I
just wanted to see my son. You said I could.
What's the problem. Man. He was till her like, oh,
don't cry, Everything's all right. And then he like tried
to hug her, and she said, no, I don't want
to hug you know. She said, don't touch me, and
(37:12):
he's like, all right, I won't touch you. You know.
She was like wiping away her tears and stuff. She said, well,
can you at least give this to our son, and
if you have time, whenever he gets it, can you
send me a picture of him with it, Even if
it's just a picture. I'm happy to see my son.
I don't know if he ever got the Eastern basket
(37:32):
or not, or if they threw it away. I don't know,
like Tabby Howard victim, Hannim Rodin kept up the fight
for her child after she and Jake Wagner had broken up.
But the Rodents had one advantage Tabby didn't. We didn't
have money like the Roden's got money, because they had
money too, maybe not as much as the Wagner's, but
(37:54):
they still they still, you know, lived pretty damn comfortably.
If they wanted to, you know, take Andye to court
and all that, and Andie would have a world problem
on her hands, especially since they had money too. And
Hannah was the mom and here and Ohias, the mom
(38:15):
has the right. And they weren't married, You're a sister,
and George were married, which immediately changes the custody discussion
from the start. So unlike with the two of you,
Kenna and Jake were unmarried, so he legally had no rights.
So that became an added trigger potentially right. And it
seems that the Wagners knew that we talked last season
(38:37):
about forged custody documents the Wagners had drawn up in
order to get sole custody of Hannahme Rodin and Jake
Wagner's young daughter, Agent Scheiderer discussed the genesis of these
custody documents, also called declaration documents, in great detail at
George Wagner's hearing last year. Here's an excerpt from that testimony.
You seize the computer from the Wagner's Is that correct?
(38:58):
Trut okay? And that computer was analyzed for evidence. Correct.
During that review of the content of the computer, you
discovered that there had been documents Googled searched for on
April thirty, twenty sixteen. Correct, declaration documents correct, okay. And
(39:22):
then do you also see that those documents were printed
out of the computer on the same day. Yes. Yeah,
the bottom corner of the pages it says April third,
twenty sixteenth. Okay, So like computers sometimes do when you
print something and it says what date you're prints act.
Did you ultimately recover those documents, the actual physical documents, yes, okay.
(39:44):
And it's your testimony that one of them was a
declaration reportedly made were apparently made by Hannah May where
it bore what was in tended to be her signature. Correct.
Did you submit all of these documents to be examined
(40:06):
by a handwriting expert within VCI, Yes, Okay. Did you
find out if in fact that was her signature. We did,
it was not her signature, okay. Additionally, you talked about
the fact that they were dated at a prior time,
and so I'm clear, are you saying that they were
(40:29):
in fact backdated? Yes, that is backdated as if it
were signed in twenty fourteen by hand and a correct. Okay.
So they print out a piece of paper on April thirty,
twenty sixteen. You see evidence of that in the computer
that it is also printed out that same day. You
(40:50):
later also recover the original documents with a raised stamp
on it. Correct, and that piece of paper in existence
twenty fourteen, correct, So it could not have been signed
on those days, correct, okay. Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa noted the
unusual settlement on the Wagner's forged custody documents. This paper says,
(41:12):
if Hannah is to meet her demise, then Sophia should
go to Jake correct. Okay. But if Jake meets his demise,
then his child goes to his mom correct, not to Hannah. Correct.
Last season, we highlighted an ominous Facebook message that hannahme
(41:34):
Rodin had written during her protracted custody battle with Jake.
It was discovered on a laptop owned by the Wagner family.
Agent Scheider spoke about that message and the warning she
received from someone who was intimately familiar with the Wagner's
nefarious ways. At the hearing, you talked about the fact
that this relationship between Jake and Hannah was not going well,
(41:56):
that he was bugging her to sign stuff giving him custom.
Obviously they forged documents that if she were to die,
Jake would get testody. Was there a specific communication that
sticks out in your mind that Hannah may made to
another person that the Wagoners became aware of. Yes, a
Facebook message? Okay, Messenger message? Okay, so a messenger message?
(42:20):
Then who was that message too, Patricia? But it would
be Tabitha's mother, Okay, Tabitha George's wife. You said it
was a private messenger, correct, Yes, And so if I'm
understanding correctly, private messenger is not something that anyone else
would be able to see except for the two people
(42:40):
that are messaging each other. Correct. Are you aware whether
or not the Wagoners became aware of that conversation? Absolutely,
we're aware of it. And how do you know that
there is a screenshot of this conversation found on the
laptop that belonged to the Wagner family. Okay, the device
was registered to Jake, but there's strong evidence that Angela
(43:04):
seemed to be the primary user of that laptop. Can
you tell us what were they discussing at the time
that she made this statement. The theme of the conversation was, basically,
Patricia was telling Hannah, you know, don't let what happened
to Tabitha happen to you. You know, don't you keep
(43:25):
fighting for your kid. Don't give up your kid, you know,
basically saying, don't don't become another Tabitha. Okay, And what
does Hannah say in a response to that? This is
the copy of the body of their text their conversation,
and her reply is, I won't sign papers. Ever, it
(43:46):
won't happen. They will have to kill me first. So
not only did was that Hannah Ma's sentiments at the
time that she would not sign papers ever, that they
would have to kill her first was her sentiments on
December tenth, twenty fifteen. And you know for a fact
that the Wagner saw it, in fact, the same day
(44:08):
as she said that. Correct, Yes, okay, and jo Oba.
Four months later, Anna and all of her family are dead. Correct.
I have another question, John. After the Rodent family was murdered,
(44:30):
Christina Howard and her family were panicked. Pretty much, a
whole bloodline gets marched off over the custody of one kid.
And you know, my sister is she's got a kid
with them too. And you know, after we heard about it,
we were like, oh shit, better up on security because
(44:51):
we ain't We ain't about to get crossed out. But
when the Wagoners were arrested in twenty eighteen, Tabby Howard's
nightmare finally came to an end. Once they were arrested.
He was in like a child protective services for a while,
and after a few months she was finally granted full
(45:13):
custody of her son. Following Jake Wagner's admission in court
just weeks ago, Christina had to come to terms with
her feelings about the one Wagner. She thought she could
always trust grandmother, the accused, Frederica, I love, but she's
very gullible. They probably told her some crazy stuff like
(45:34):
all these people are after us, they're trying to frame
us for these murders. Blah blah blah, well, of course,
if I'm gollible, I'm gonna hide them, not saying she
did or anything, but like and in that kind of situation. Yeah,
So what does the Wagner's sort did history mean? If Angela, Billy,
(45:54):
and George decide to stand trial, they all maintained their
please of not guilty, it may force Jake Wagner to
go to court and sit in front of his mother, father,
and brother and in front of a jury and spill
as guts and a lot of things we haven't known
in the last five years are going to be known.
Then you know who went into what home, who died first,
(46:18):
why they died. You've got to believe we are going
to learn things we never knew before and hear things
you would have never believed. And if the trials move forward,
the stakes for Pike County prosecutors couldn't be higher. The
case that the prosecution is building against the Wagner family.
It's not a single story of ranch. It's a freaking mansion.
(46:44):
And they're investing a lot of time, a lot of hours,
a lot of capital and this thing, and they don't
want to see it fail because if this thing fails,
can you imagine what a nightmare this is. If one
little thing goes wrong with it, the whole case can
be destroyed. But on April twenty eight, twenty twenty one,
less than one week after Jake Wagner's plea dale took place,
(47:06):
his brother George, appeared in a Pike County courtroom. Reporter
Anjeanette Leady was on the scene. George just found out
in the week prior that his brother had confessed and
implicated his whole family. His attorney had been so steadfast
in court documents and saying, you know, my guy didn't
(47:28):
do this, He wasn't involved. Well, clearly now his brother
was saying that's not the case. That George the fourth
was very much involved. I think we were all wondering,
what is this emotions hearing when of you, like, was
George Wagner going to change his plea More on that
(47:49):
next time. The Pikedon Massacre Returned to Pike County is
executive produced by Stephanie Lydecker and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing
and sound designed by executive producer Jared Aston. Additional producing
by Jeff Shane, Andrew Becker, Chris Graves, Tim Hamilton, and
Haley Nilsen Engineering by Jason Freeman. The piked In Massacre
(48:12):
Returned to Pike County is a production of iHeartRadio and
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dot com. Welcome to the Piketon Massacre, a production of
iHeartRadio and Katie Studios grown up around him. Here's such
(02:09):
a sweetheart and everything. Jake Wagner, he originally pleaded not
guilty to the murder of eight Rodent family members, saying
him say that he was guilty, I am guil It
just gives you a complete chills. Admitted to personally killing
five of the eight into trying to burn and get
rid of Avid. And he'll now avoid the death penalty
and spend the rest of his life in prison. If
(02:30):
I've done something to making that outrageously mad, he could
have killed me too. Wagners showed a little to no
emotion in cour today, just answering yes or no to
the judge. But his life was controlled all the time.
Special Prosecutor said the Wagners were a cult like family.
I think it was still Angelo behind the scene, control
(02:51):
and everything, like a little puppet master. This is the
Pikedon Massacre. Returned to Pike County season two, Episode two,
Cinnamon and hay M Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at
Katie Studios with Stephanie Ledecker and Jeff Shane. On April
(03:11):
twenty second, twenty twenty one, Jake Wagner pleaded guilty to
twenty three counts, including eight aggravated murder charges, in the
Rodin murder case. The motive behind the killings back in
twenty sixteen, according to prosecutors, was a custody dispute between
Jake and victim hannahme Rodin over their young daughter. As
it stands, the other three Wagners accused in the murders,
(03:33):
Jake's father Billy, mother Angela, and brother George, have all
pled not guilty. The day that Jake appeared in court
for his plea deal, we caught up with Christina Howard.
Her sister Tabby had a relationship with the accused eldest son,
George Wagner. The two were married and had a son together,
but eventually divorced. When you found out for a fact
(03:55):
that Jake was guilty, what was your reaction? My reaction
was like wow, in a way, kind of speechless, because
me and Hamm were friends when we were younger. You
never really think about somebody who is or once was
a friend, being able to take so many lives like that.
(04:22):
Last season, Christina told us a little bit about a
custody dispute that ensued between Tabby and George Wagner. After
the couple split up. It piqued our interest when we
heard about it, since it foreshadowed what was to come
for hannahme Roden. Christina was a little hesitant to divulge
too much last time we spoke, but in light of
Jake's please, she chose to delve into Tabby's story a
little more, and what we found is far darker and
(04:45):
much more disturbing than we could have ever imagined. What
follows is Christina's recollection of the events. Christina's relationship with
the Wagner family goes back to her childhood. Her mother
began working for grandmother of the acute used Frederica Wagner,
whom Christina affectionately refers to as Freddie. When she was
a kid, she was a grandmother too in a way.
(05:08):
I would go to work with my mother and I
would hang around Freddie a lot, and she treated my
family pretty kindly. On holidays, she would always get me
and my sister's presents, and I have Christmas dinners and
Easter dinners, and it was like, you know, us being
(05:29):
part of her family, and it was pretty nice. Eventually,
Christina and her sister Tabby met Frederica's grandsons, George and
Jake Wagner. Christina told Jeff that George and Tabby hit
it off and soon became a couple. They got together
when they were young teens. I think my sister was
like thirteen fourteen, you know, and they ended up liking
(05:50):
each other. Did you think that George was bad news?
He was a little bit of a travelmaker. Christina would
often tag along when Tabby went to visit George at
the Wagner's home. They had like this pretty little like
house up on the hill, and they had like their
own little pond up there. It was pretty isolated. They
(06:11):
had a privacy gate at the bottom that in order
to get in, somebody up at the top of the
house would have to come down and unlock it. Me, George, Jake,
and Tabby we would like go outside and you know,
do young dumb teenager kid type stuff and play tag,
(06:33):
jump on the trampoline and the treehouse and all that.
It was really fun and we could be as rowdy
as a noisy as we wanted because they didn't have
no neighbors whatsoever. While George and Tabby were hanging out,
Christina struck up a friendship with Jake Wagner. Jake was
actually a really nice kid. Me and him were kind
of friends. It was pretty cool. He was really nice,
(06:55):
kind of shy, who played video games, all that good stuff.
As a kid. Jake struck Christina as kind and almost
unusually empathetic. I remember in Jake's bedroom, you know, he
had his own little peev and video game system and
all that stuff, and he had this one stuff duck,
(07:15):
and it was like hanging on the wall or something,
and it kind of gave me the creeps whenever I'm
a little kid. And he was sweet enough to take
it off his wall and hide it in his closet
or something, because the game of the creeps. The more
time Christina spent at the home, the more familiar she
became with the boy's mother, accused murderer, Angela Wagner, she
sometimes referred to as Angie. Christina told Stephanie that on
(07:39):
the surface, everything about Angela Wagner seemed to personify the
typical all American mom. Out front was like this nice
little walk away with flowers and you know, the white
picket fence except in the country cotton deal. And then
like you go and find the house or the kitchen,
(08:00):
and then right beside the kitchen of the living room
and it's pretty big. They got like this huge section
all and a nice big TV. And the house smelled
like it kind of smelled like cinnamon mixed with hay.
I don't know if she could really imagine that, but like,
take some may got around everywhere and sprinkle some cinnamon
(08:24):
in it, and that's what it smelled. Watch Angela would
make us some snacks or some lunch or whatever. I
think even like maybe twice she made us dinner. It
was pretty good. She sounds like a homemaker, which is
again what makes it so shocking to imagine that she
had the ability to do something so horrific. Yeah, but
(08:48):
the more time Christina spent at the Wagner home, the
relationship between the Wagner boys and their mother came into focus.
They were always around their mom, no matter what their
mom said, went always. If they wanted to play outside longer,
if Angie said no, it was no. I yes, they
(09:08):
wanted to play their video games longer. If Andy said no,
it was no. Even if like they slightly disobeyed her,
she put her foot down, meaning like you better listen
to me, or I'm gonna book your butt, and they're
just like, all right, Mama, it didn't matter what Angie said.
That's what went. As the kids got older, Angela Wagner
(09:31):
seems to take more control over her boys lives, especially Jake.
We had a job somewhere and his mom like actually
made him quit the job because she said that the
job wasn't good enough for him, meaning Angela Wagner. Jake
Wagner's mom said, this job's over, it's not good enough
for you. Yeah. It's like, you know, your mom controls
(09:55):
your whole entire life. And it wasn't long before Angela
turned her controlling ways towards Christina's family. Angie made George
break up with Tabby because Angie didn't like my sister
because you know, George and Jake were Mama's boys and
ain't nothing in the world gonna be able to steal
her boys from her. She was just so controlling. Soon,
(10:19):
Angela Wagner's true colors began to shine through her all
American facade. In some photos that I've seen of Angela,
she looks smiley and she's pretty and just looks like
an all American mom. But then in other pictures like
her mugshot, for example, she's sort of grimacing and has
a scary vibe. What was she like in prison? In person,
(10:43):
she was the type you know, to talk about every
day stuff like how you do, and how's your family
and everything else like that. But it felt like whenever
she would talk to you, it felt like an act
because she was putting on like you know, she was
looking down on the kind of thing is At least
(11:04):
that's what I always picked up. She seemed like she
was put on a math makes people thank so she's
all right or whatever. But I never really did like her.
She just spooks me. After the Wagner family was arrested
in twenty eighteen, the family's unusual dynamic became a key
(11:26):
building block in the States case against Angela, Billy Jake,
and George Wagner. On August thirty first of last year,
George Wagner appeared in court for a pre trial hearing.
Special Agent Ryan Scheiterer of the Ohio Bureau of Criminal
Investigation testified that day. He provided details of what authorities
had uncovered about the Wagner's over two years of investigating.
(11:47):
Here's Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa questioning agent Scheiterer, how would you
describe the Wagner family. The Wagner family from what we
found through the investigation as well as their own admittances,
they're very close. When I say close, they lived together.
They've always lived together. There's not been a period of
time where George Wagner has not lived with his brother
(12:08):
or his mother. But their finances are intermingled. They worked together,
They've always worked together. They homeschool together, they raised their
kids together. Everything is done together. So from a birth
until the day they were arrested, they lived together. Yes.
Do you have an opinion as whether or not one
(12:28):
of them might strike out and go commit some Haynes
tiding with the out and the others knowing about it
or participating in it. No, we have an informant who
says that every decision within that family is made as
a family decision. Years after Angela Wagner forced George Wagner
and Tabby Howard's relationship to end, the couple rekindled their romance.
(12:51):
Soon after, Victim Hanname Rodins started going out with Jake
Wagner and the Rodens, Wagner's and Howard's became very close.
Hannah's brother Victim Frankie Rodin even joined the Phray. Hannah
and Tabby were best friends, and Hannah and Jake were together,
and Tabby and George were together, and Frankie would hang
out with him a lot because they were like best
(13:13):
friends with Frankie, I suppose, so they were always like
going out hunting and fishing and stuff. Then one day,
Tabby Howard came to her family with some surprising news.
She and George Wagner were getting married. We didn't know
anything about it until shortly before it, so Karen something
(13:34):
like us, like, wow, that's crazy. Instead of excitement, Christina
felt something much different based on her time spent around
the family and accused mother Angela Wagner in particular. It
just didn't feel right to me, and I thought I'd
speak my mind about it. I told her, I said, listen,
you don't want to marry him, And she said, well
(13:57):
why not? I said, because his mom is very controlling.
I said, you want to wait a few years and
see how things go before you, you know, jump into
getting married to him and stuff. And she said, well,
you're just full of it. You don't know what you're
talking about. We love each other and everything, and Angie's
(14:18):
just trying to look out for me. So towards that part,
I feel like Angie, you know, like kind of turned
her against her family a bit more of like a
I don't need you and I'm gonna spend my time
(14:40):
with my new family. I get want her to get
married because of the way I felt, but I felt
like it wasn't my place, because you know, intervene. If
she's happy, let her be. If not, she'll figure it out.
On July first, twenty twelve, all three families gathered for
(15:01):
Tabby Howard and George Wagner's wedding. That was a normal,
pretty wedding. It was kind of country because you know type.
She had a camouflage dress and George she had a
camo tugs. Everybody's camouflage crazy around here. They love it.
Hanging up, you have somebody what their favorite collars and
(15:24):
they're like, oh, it's camouflage. Me and two of my
sisters and Hannah or her bridesmaids. The bridesmaids we wore
black dresses. And Jake was George's best man. Obviously, the
Wagoners were there. There was Freddy, George and Angela and
(15:44):
Billy and then some of the other Rodents were there
and I was walking down the aisle with Frankie. They
had a smash cake I guess you'd call it, you know,
where you smashing into each other's faces. It was a
really good wedding. Talk last episode about the photo of
the Rodents and Wagner's from Tabby and George's wedding, and
(16:04):
we can't stop looking at it because it's just so chilling.
The happiness on everyone's face is palpable. But Christina now
sees details in the pictures she never saw before. In
my mind, I feel like the people in the picture
should be sorted out differently, you know, like in this placement,
(16:26):
it's like Tabby and George just sent off to Spike
because even though they're getting married, they're not the like
the main attraction. And Angie is just like top center
wearing that white dress, like laughing in their face like
ha ha, y'all are beneath me. Yeah. I was gonna
(16:46):
ask you because people have different views. But some people
think you don't wear white to anyone else's wedding. You know,
why would aye wear white to another person's wedding? I mean,
you're not supposed to do that, because that is like
supposed to be like bad juju on the married couple,
like saying that I hope that your wedding don't wind
long kind of thing. It's clear that George Wagner and
(17:11):
Tabby Howard's wedding marked an inflection point in the lives
of all three families. After that day, nothing would ever
be the same. Shortly after the wedding, we stopped hearing
from her. The last thing that we heard from Tabby
was that she was pregnant was my nephew, and she
(17:33):
was given birth to him, and that was it. We
didn't get no pictures of him, no nothing. We didn't
hear anything from Tabby, nothing from Angela or George or anybody.
They just like straight up disappeared. We're going to take
(17:56):
a quick break here. We'll be back in a moment.
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(19:02):
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(19:24):
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(21:41):
Nobody knew where they were, nobody knew what they were
doing or anything, and it won't like that for a
couple of years. Everybody was just so concerned about my
sister because we're like, you know, we literally have not
heard a thing from her. Then one night, Tabby suddenly
(22:03):
it was a call, like a random call in the
middle of the night from a gas station, from a
number we didn't know, and she's calling us, telling us, hey,
can you come get me. I'm here at this gas station,
and you know, we're freaking out, like, what's going on.
We ain't heard nothing from you in a few years.
She said, I don't really have time to explain, can
(22:24):
come get me and all that. So we packed up
in the car. It was me, my mom and dad
to go get my sister. And then we get there
and she's bawling her eyes out. She rode there in
the middle of the night. It was raining cats and
dogs outside. She's all wet and cold. She rode there
(22:46):
on a bike, and the police showed up and put
my sister in a car in the cock car, asking
her what was going on and everything, and apparently he
and George got into a fight. Angie called the cops
on her and said that she was beating George and
(23:09):
hitting was a two boy four and everything else, and
tried to stab him with scissors and all this, And
Tabby said that that wasn't how it happened. She said
she was you know, I guess you got into a
fight with George and Angie and George wouldn't like let
(23:30):
her go and get his hands off of her. George
didn't have any marks on him to prove that Tabby
had beaten him. Tabby didn't have any marks on her
to prove that he was putting his hands on her.
So nobody got arrested, just Tabby just got questioned and
all that, and then you know, she comes home with us,
(23:52):
and you know, we're sitting there trying to catch up
on everything with Tabby. Howard told her family that it
was deeply disturbing. Here's Christina's recollection of her sister's story.
According to Tabby, Angie wouldn't let her like have a
phone nan. She always said that Tabby was crazy, and
(24:15):
she was telling us all about how she was controlling,
and Tabby said that she wasn't allowed to, you know,
do anything with her kid, and Angie always said, no,
you're not, you're crazy, You're an unfit mother. She said
that she would all the time tell George about what's
(24:35):
going on and everything, and George was like, oh, it's okay,
you're just being dramatic. Mom wouldn't do that to you,
and it's all for your own good blah blah blah.
We're just looking out for you. But why would they
do that? What would they have to gain from, you know,
(24:58):
sitting there keeping my sisters they basically a prisoner and
you know, sitting there like mentally abusing her and everything else.
What would they have the game from it? Other than
you know, my nephew. Christina's story about Tabby's escape from
the Wagner household may sound outrageous. However, it was convincing
(25:20):
enough for Agent Scheiterer to testify about it in court
during George Wagner's hearing last year. Was George ever married? Yes?
Who is he married to Tabitha? And did he still
live with the family at the time during the time
he was married to Tabitha? Yes, okay, So Tabitha lived
with them? Yes, okay? And are you aware of what
(25:45):
happened that ended that relationship? Yes? What happened? She fled
the relationship. There was an incident on one particular day,
her and George had gotten into an argument. Scheiderer included
a few frightening details that Christina hadn't told us. Eventually,
(26:05):
there was a comment by Angelo that she was going
to kill Tamithas so she fled to a gas station
and ultimately never returned, And actually specifically, she first hit
on the property until nightfall and then drove to a
gas station and made her escape that way and never
went back after that. Corrupt Soon after Tabby Howard fled
(26:27):
the Wagner's household, the family became too much for victim
Hanname Rodin to bear as well. Hannah. I guess she
told my sister that that was really courageous of her.
She was proud of her. She was saying that she
was tired of it, tired of always being controlled and
told what to do and everything. So Hannah decided, you know,
(26:49):
that she was going to leave too. It seems that
Hanname Rodin left Jake Wagner due to the same reasons
Tabby Howard left George. Some of these details were illuminated
at that same he for George Wagner last year. Here's
Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa questioning agent Ryan Scheiderer about some messages
Hannah may had written. There were two other Rodent family members,
(27:10):
and where about Jake, their breakup and her relationship with
new boyfriend Charlie Gilly. Were you aware why Hannah May
left Jake domestic violence issues between Jacobs solving her okay?
And you observed specific communications about that, Yes, she made
(27:32):
it aware, she made people aware of it, yes, okay.
Did she also make comments about the Wagner family as
a whole being controlling? Yes. After she had left Jake,
she started seeing another individual and ultimately conceived a second
child with that individual, correct, yes, okay. And that was
(27:56):
who Charlie Guilley okay. And are you aware as to
whether or not Hannah told Jake that she was pregnant
and that she also told him who the father of
the child was. She told Jake as well as Angela,
that she was pregnant and it was Charlie Gilly's child, okay,
(28:17):
During that time after she was pregnant Charlie Gilly's child.
In the months leading up to the homicides, did she
make it clear to Jake that they were not getting
back together? Very clear? Okay? And had he asked her
to engage in dialogue with an attorney in order to
(28:42):
try to work out custody between them, Yes, she made
attempts to get that done, yes, okay. And what was
she interested in doing that. By the time hannahme Rodin left,
Tabby Howard was in the middle of her own custody
battle with Jake's brother, George Wagner. Well, we don't know
all the details of George Wagner and Tabby's custody case.
(29:04):
There is evidence to support Christina's account of it. It
was a preview of what would come to bear for
Hanna May in the following months. My sister was gonna
do joint custody. My mom tried to help my sister
go through court and all that, with all that, you know,
trying to help her, and my sister told my mom
she said, no, it's okay, Angie will help me out
(29:27):
with it. And why she trusted Angie with it is
beyond me. And why she's still wanted to trust her
was court. I don't know. I don't know what it
was running through tabbith head, But somehow she got Tabby
to sign some paperwork saying that George would get full
(29:47):
custody of my nephew and that Tabby would only get
visitation rights like on their terms. She wasn't allowed to
leave the property. What's my nephew, Tabby Howard's custody story
was also highlighted by Agent Scheiderer. Last year, there was
(30:10):
a divorce with some child custody issues where ultimately she
was forced to give up all control of her son
to George. So she gave up all of her parental rights. Okay,
and when you see she was forced too, did someone
who would have gone to her head? No? Okay? But
in fact, what she prosed in the custody proceedings and
(30:32):
not represented by an attorney correct? Okay? And what George
was Yes. Despite the Wagner's repeated attempts to keep Tabby
away from her son, she tried to visit him as
much as she could. Whenever she would try to reach
out to George like hey, can I come visit my son,
Angela would get on there and be like, oh, he's
(30:55):
not your son anymore. You might have gave bart to him,
but on his mother because I take care of em
and all these just nasty things. We're going to take
a quick break here. We'll be back at a moment.
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(31:39):
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or include a UNSQR code on party invitations for birthdays
(32:26):
and holidays. For a limited time, download the unstap and
use the code I Heart fifty at sign up to
receive a fifty dollar bonus when you fund your account.
That's code I Heart fifty when you sign up at
une st dot coo for a fifty dollar bonus. See
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your curiosity and sign up today. How A Rude Tantarino's
a Full House Rewatch podcast is here. Join us as
hosts Jody Sweeten and Andrea Barber look back on their
journey together as the iconic characters we all love, Stephanie
(33:59):
Tanner and Kimmy Gibbler. Here's a quick preview, brought to
you by the Hunday two Soon. We spent our entire
childhoods on a little show called Full House, playing frenemies
but becoming besties whenever the cameras weren't rolling, and now,
thirty five years later, it's our biggest adventure yet watching
the original series together from beginning to end, seasons one
through eight, from adorable childhood to those awkward teen years
(34:20):
and beyond what awkward teen years? Ye, Geek Burger Andrea.
We are bringing back the Milkman, the Paperboy and Evening DV.
We'll be reliving every moment with you, and we'll be
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we'll take a trip down memory lane together. You can
(34:41):
listen to how Rude Tanta Ritos on the iHeartRadio app
or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by
the Hunday two Soon it's your journey. Tabby Howard made
one last valiant effort to see her son. It was
(35:02):
an Easter because I remember my sister made her son
an Easter basket, you know, wanting to give it to
him for Easter and everything. I went there with her.
It was me her and my mom, and my mom
stayed in the car and I got out of the
(35:23):
car with Tabby and we walked up her you know,
knocker on the door because she had previously called George
j askin him if she could come see her son
and give him an Easter basket. He said, yeah, that's fine,
come on over and you can see your son and
(35:48):
give him his Easter basket. And she said all right.
So we went there, and then once we got there,
Angie answered the door, and you know, Tabby said, oh,
I'm here to see my son. Can I have a
few minutes, you know, spend a few minutes with him
for Easter? She said, let me go get George, and
(36:08):
then she slammed the door, and my sister's faith and
we're sitting out there wait in a good ten fifteen minutes,
and then George comes out. She asked George, she said,
what was that about why was your mom, you know,
being hateful. I didn't do anything. And he was like, oh,
(36:29):
she's just not in a good move today. And she said,
where's our son? You know, I'd like to see him.
You said I could come see him. He said, oh,
he's in there with a fever right now. He's sick
from staying up all night and day throwing a fit
and everything else, you know, just coming up with another excuse.
(36:51):
And then my sister started crying. She said, well, I
just wanted to see my son. You said I could.
What's the problem. Man. He was till her like, oh,
don't cry, Everything's all right. And then he like tried
to hug her, and she said, no, I don't want
to hug you know. She said, don't touch me, and
(37:12):
he's like, all right, I won't touch you. You know.
She was like wiping away her tears and stuff. She said, well,
can you at least give this to our son, and
if you have time, whenever he gets it, can you
send me a picture of him with it, Even if
it's just a picture. I'm happy to see my son.
I don't know if he ever got the Eastern basket
(37:32):
or not, or if they threw it away. I don't know,
like Tabby Howard victim, Hannim Rodin kept up the fight
for her child after she and Jake Wagner had broken up.
But the Rodents had one advantage Tabby didn't. We didn't
have money like the Roden's got money, because they had
money too, maybe not as much as the Wagner's, but
(37:54):
they still they still, you know, lived pretty damn comfortably.
If they wanted to, you know, take Andye to court
and all that, and Andie would have a world problem
on her hands, especially since they had money too. And
Hannah was the mom and here and Ohias, the mom
(38:15):
has the right. And they weren't married, You're a sister,
and George were married, which immediately changes the custody discussion
from the start. So unlike with the two of you,
Kenna and Jake were unmarried, so he legally had no rights.
So that became an added trigger potentially right. And it
seems that the Wagners knew that we talked last season
(38:37):
about forged custody documents the Wagners had drawn up in
order to get sole custody of Hannahme Rodin and Jake
Wagner's young daughter, Agent Scheiderer discussed the genesis of these
custody documents, also called declaration documents, in great detail at
George Wagner's hearing last year. Here's an excerpt from that testimony.
You seize the computer from the Wagner's Is that correct?
(38:58):
Trut okay? And that computer was analyzed for evidence. Correct.
During that review of the content of the computer, you
discovered that there had been documents Googled searched for on
April thirty, twenty sixteen. Correct, declaration documents correct, okay. And
(39:22):
then do you also see that those documents were printed
out of the computer on the same day. Yes. Yeah,
the bottom corner of the pages it says April third,
twenty sixteenth. Okay, So like computers sometimes do when you
print something and it says what date you're prints act.
Did you ultimately recover those documents, the actual physical documents, yes, okay.
(39:44):
And it's your testimony that one of them was a
declaration reportedly made were apparently made by Hannah May where
it bore what was in tended to be her signature. Correct.
Did you submit all of these documents to be examined
(40:06):
by a handwriting expert within VCI, Yes, Okay. Did you
find out if in fact that was her signature. We did,
it was not her signature, okay. Additionally, you talked about
the fact that they were dated at a prior time,
and so I'm clear, are you saying that they were
(40:29):
in fact backdated? Yes, that is backdated as if it
were signed in twenty fourteen by hand and a correct. Okay.
So they print out a piece of paper on April thirty,
twenty sixteen. You see evidence of that in the computer
that it is also printed out that same day. You
(40:50):
later also recover the original documents with a raised stamp
on it. Correct, and that piece of paper in existence
twenty fourteen, correct, So it could not have been signed
on those days, correct, okay. Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa noted the
unusual settlement on the Wagner's forged custody documents. This paper says,
(41:12):
if Hannah is to meet her demise, then Sophia should
go to Jake correct. Okay. But if Jake meets his demise,
then his child goes to his mom correct, not to Hannah. Correct.
Last season, we highlighted an ominous Facebook message that hannahme
(41:34):
Rodin had written during her protracted custody battle with Jake.
It was discovered on a laptop owned by the Wagner family.
Agent Scheider spoke about that message and the warning she
received from someone who was intimately familiar with the Wagner's
nefarious ways. At the hearing, you talked about the fact
that this relationship between Jake and Hannah was not going well,
(41:56):
that he was bugging her to sign stuff giving him custom.
Obviously they forged documents that if she were to die,
Jake would get testody. Was there a specific communication that
sticks out in your mind that Hannah may made to
another person that the Wagoners became aware of. Yes, a
Facebook message? Okay, Messenger message? Okay, so a messenger message?
(42:20):
Then who was that message too, Patricia? But it would
be Tabitha's mother, Okay, Tabitha George's wife. You said it
was a private messenger, correct, Yes, And so if I'm
understanding correctly, private messenger is not something that anyone else
would be able to see except for the two people
(42:40):
that are messaging each other. Correct. Are you aware whether
or not the Wagoners became aware of that conversation? Absolutely,
we're aware of it. And how do you know that
there is a screenshot of this conversation found on the
laptop that belonged to the Wagner family. Okay, the device
was registered to Jake, but there's strong evidence that Angela
(43:04):
seemed to be the primary user of that laptop. Can
you tell us what were they discussing at the time
that she made this statement. The theme of the conversation was, basically,
Patricia was telling Hannah, you know, don't let what happened
to Tabitha happen to you. You know, don't you keep
(43:25):
fighting for your kid. Don't give up your kid, you know,
basically saying, don't don't become another Tabitha. Okay, And what
does Hannah say in a response to that? This is
the copy of the body of their text their conversation,
and her reply is, I won't sign papers. Ever, it
(43:46):
won't happen. They will have to kill me first. So
not only did was that Hannah Ma's sentiments at the
time that she would not sign papers ever, that they
would have to kill her first was her sentiments on
December tenth, twenty fifteen. And you know for a fact
that the Wagner saw it, in fact, the same day
(44:08):
as she said that. Correct, Yes, okay, and jo Oba.
Four months later, Anna and all of her family are dead. Correct.
I have another question, John. After the Rodent family was murdered,
(44:30):
Christina Howard and her family were panicked. Pretty much, a
whole bloodline gets marched off over the custody of one kid.
And you know, my sister is she's got a kid
with them too. And you know, after we heard about it,
we were like, oh shit, better up on security because
(44:51):
we ain't We ain't about to get crossed out. But
when the Wagoners were arrested in twenty eighteen, Tabby Howard's
nightmare finally came to an end. Once they were arrested.
He was in like a child protective services for a while,
and after a few months she was finally granted full
(45:13):
custody of her son. Following Jake Wagner's admission in court
just weeks ago, Christina had to come to terms with
her feelings about the one Wagner. She thought she could
always trust grandmother, the accused, Frederica, I love, but she's
very gullible. They probably told her some crazy stuff like
(45:34):
all these people are after us, they're trying to frame
us for these murders. Blah blah blah, well, of course,
if I'm gollible, I'm gonna hide them, not saying she
did or anything, but like and in that kind of situation. Yeah,
So what does the Wagner's sort did history mean? If Angela, Billy,
(45:54):
and George decide to stand trial, they all maintained their
please of not guilty, it may force Jake Wagner to
go to court and sit in front of his mother, father,
and brother and in front of a jury and spill
as guts and a lot of things we haven't known
in the last five years are going to be known.
Then you know who went into what home, who died first,
(46:18):
why they died. You've got to believe we are going
to learn things we never knew before and hear things
you would have never believed. And if the trials move forward,
the stakes for Pike County prosecutors couldn't be higher. The
case that the prosecution is building against the Wagner family.
It's not a single story of ranch. It's a freaking mansion.
(46:44):
And they're investing a lot of time, a lot of hours,
a lot of capital and this thing, and they don't
want to see it fail because if this thing fails,
can you imagine what a nightmare this is. If one
little thing goes wrong with it, the whole case can
be destroyed. But on April twenty eight, twenty twenty one,
less than one week after Jake Wagner's plea dale took place,
(47:06):
his brother George, appeared in a Pike County courtroom. Reporter
Anjeanette Leady was on the scene. George just found out
in the week prior that his brother had confessed and
implicated his whole family. His attorney had been so steadfast
in court documents and saying, you know, my guy didn't
(47:28):
do this, He wasn't involved. Well, clearly now his brother
was saying that's not the case. That George the fourth
was very much involved. I think we were all wondering,
what is this emotions hearing when of you, like, was
George Wagner going to change his plea More on that
(47:49):
next time. The Pikedon Massacre Returned to Pike County is
executive produced by Stephanie Lydecker and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing
and sound designed by executive producer Jared Aston. Additional producing
by Jeff Shane, Andrew Becker, Chris Graves, Tim Hamilton, and
Haley Nilsen Engineering by Jason Freeman. The piked In Massacre
(48:12):
Returned to Pike County is a production of iHeartRadio and
Katie Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
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Since her role as White House correspondent, Caitlyn Collins has
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On her new CNN show The Source with Caitlyn Collins,
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