May 24, 2022 • 37 mins
In 2016, eight members of the Rhoden family were brutally murdered in their homes. The crimes divided the small community of Pike County and spawned a mystery that spanned five years. For two seasons, The Piketon Massacre covered the case, which included the arrests of another local family with intrinsic ties to the victims, the Wagners. The accused pleaded their innocence until last year- on the 5th anniversary of the murders- one of the defendants changed his plea to guilty. Now, as season three begins, another shocking courtroom twist and many divergent theories promise to change the course of Ohio’s largest criminal investigation and may finally help the Rhoden family see justice.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The number one podcast is back. They're my relatives. I
still love them. I pray that God forgives them. I
pray that I'll see them in heaven. But here on
earth eternity in jail is not long enough. Eight from
the same family dead in rural southern Ohio. One family
accused of killing members of another family. Just when we
(00:25):
thought we knew what happened during the piked And Massacre,
everything is turned upside down. I just feel like something
is not right. Was this truly about custody. I don't
think he would kill her, but I think he would
kill more her. Now, with childs on the horizon, new
(00:48):
theories arise. There's like a good four or five places
at Burndale. We're told he's lying because they're getting death
threats behind bars. I would sit to the jail house
in Pike County, good book, money on their book, So
it's not years ay for me. Why are we just
learning about this now? This is one of the biggest
pieces of physical evidence that we've had thus for. Just
(01:10):
when we thought it couldn't get any stranger or darker,
it has. This is the Pikes And Massacre, Season three,
Episode one. Mother May I officers wearing body armor guarded
Angela Wagner as she walked into a Pike County courtroom
(01:32):
to admit, after years of denials, that she helped plan
the murders of Hannah Roden and her family. On the
warm and heavily humid afternoon of September tenth, twenty twenty one,
in Pike County, Ohio, accused killer mother Angela Wagner, arrived
in court. She was wearing black and white striped prison garb,
and her hair, previously short and blonde, now hangs in
(01:54):
a long brown curtain. Here's Judge Randy Deering. You're admitting
for bargain? Were your wife require beyond reason? Bad? Do
you understand all of those? Right? It's hard to hear,
(02:15):
but that's Angelo Wagner admitting guilt. The mother accused in
Ohio's most complex Amazone investigation has just reached a plea deal.
As part of the deal, the aggravated murder charges against
Wagner were dropped. She also agreed to testify against her
family members. She will spend thirty years in prison and
(02:39):
cannot apply for parole. But the defendant to us understatements
were very visit to April this year in the usual
and her family member is all inspired together to committees
werenic defenses specifically the entry agent homes and for different
vacation in order to kill me that time, Yeah defendant
(03:06):
and the statement they joined recommendation to thirty years in prison.
Anguel Joe Wagoner did unlowly and was pursed to commit
everybody murder was another person who were persons, so her
specific targets of the Wagoners so sadly were killed simply
(03:27):
because they happened to be there. It's not clear which
of the eight victims were targets and which, as Angie
Kaneppa said, were killed simply because they happened to be there.
Was there a kill list and if so, were others
just caught by happenstance In the mayhem of the Wagner's
murder spree, she was aware that night they walked out
(03:50):
on the floor twenty and sixteen, who really were going
and what they were going to do? Maybe tried to
cover up their involvement in ange reference as well, Betters
tressaud Into eighty two wrestlers were found with the attracted Hilda.
In all Angela Wagner pled guilty to fourteen charges, including
(04:12):
conspiracy to commit murder, burglary, possession of firearms, tampering with evidence, forgery,
and engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity. We now
know that the Knight of the murderers, Angela Wagner, was
at home watching her two grandchildren while the others allegedly
went out on a kill Spring Courtney Armstrong a television
(04:39):
producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane.
In the three hundred and one days since our last
episode aired, there have been several significant court hearings. The
biggest yet an unexpected appearance by accused killer mother herself,
Angela Wagner. She's the second accused Wagner member to plead out.
(05:00):
You're Stephanie and Jeff speaking with forensic expert Joseph Scott
Morgan and journalist Angeanette Levy about Angela's plea deal. I
was surprised because apparently she's eligible for release after serving
thirty years. So who wouldn't take that because then she
can possibly and I say possibly, because she may not
(05:23):
live that long one day get out of prison. And
this is a huge revelation. I mean, for three years
now we've talked about the four core Wagoners being at
every Rodan home the night of the murders, all potentially
even being trigger polars, and to find out, Angela is
now kind of pulling the rug out from under that
story and saying that she was in fact actually at home,
(05:43):
presumably watching the children, as her husband and two sons
were out murdering the eight Rodan family members. Is a
big shift in how that night played out. That is
a very low sentence for somebody who, by her own admission,
is saying that she plotted plan to murder eight people.
I knew full well that they were leaving the house
(06:03):
allegedly to murder that night, so she stayed home in
babysat and just waited for them to get home. My
thought is, she doesn't have to be in the room
pulling a trigger here. There have been people that have
gotten the needle over the years for being a planner,
a facilitator, if you will, of a broader arching theme.
(06:27):
She knows what she's involved in, and she'd better be
thinking her lucky stars. You know, there's thirty years that
she's giving. Maybe she wasn't physically there. She was there though,
I mean It makes you wonder she's out going to
walmarts and by the shoes for her kids to go
do it like how a mom buys her kids shoes
for the first day of school, and now she's getting off,
(06:49):
probably with the lightest sentence. Did she have the wherewithal
to see that maybe if I stay home, my hands
are clean or much cleaner than the rest of my family.
If Angela Wagner was looking to protect her family and
her son's daughter, why would she possibly send her sons
out to commit murder, They too could possibly be killed.
(07:15):
You don't have to whitewash this in any way. She
was there, you know. We talked about the boots which
are going to come into play, I think, and we
talked about the weapons that were utilized and how the
setups on those were. She may not have had a
gun in her hand, but she was there in more
ways than one. It's very possible she is leaving one
(07:39):
of her sons her dead to take the hit for her.
That's even more demanded. She also was the shopper and
involved in a lot of the planning of this, and
I can say that now because she's admitted to it.
You know, she's not accused anymore. She's pleading guilty. Although
one interesting legal point is that Angela and Jake Wagner
(08:02):
have to testify to the satisfaction of the prosecution or
all four of their death sentences are back on the table.
That means, for an extreme example, if Angela and Jake
plead the fifth or do not testify to something that
the prosecution believes that they know according to the deal
they've made, this negates the plea deal. What a show
this court appearance will be so for the first time.
(08:25):
Billy Wagner, the accused father, George Wagner, the accused eldest son,
both now are moving forward with their trials, and ultimately
Jake Wagner, the youngest son, and now mom Angela Wagner,
will testify against them in front of them ida eye,
and if the stories don't add up, they all could
(08:47):
be looking at death sentences. It basically means that Angela
and Jake Wagner better bring the goods to the trial.
According to Angela Wagner's testimony, her family purchased quite a
few things to prepare for this murder. Special shoes from Walmart, ammunition,
a magazine, clip, brass, catchers and a bug detector, and
(09:10):
a bug detector is something that detects signals admitted from cameras,
which would help figure out if there were surveillance cameras.
So there was clearly a lot of thought and preparation
for this murder. This was not a crime of passion.
Here Special Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa further describing the Wagner's alleged
planning of the murders, specific purchases they made and actions
(09:32):
they took to cover up the crime. The foes retire
together any automicide and defended to a part in that
as well as making various purchases to accomplish people there
needed to phones of all victids and cameras and others
to be able to Additionally, the destroy those items before
acumis to gain after planning for mass committing automa sides
(09:55):
and be carrying the commiside out. Four defendend time tri
asking others or to be dishonest with us actually admitted
to purchasings are him relating to the events. Is that
we're meant to help the other pretty good events and
carrying out the crimes. Such a which defends people to
be able to call for help. The thought of the
(10:17):
jammers is so horrifying. I mean, the forethought that would
go into disabling the Rodents family's phones so that they
wouldn't be able to call for help as they were
being shot to death is really just a very scary visual.
Can you imagine horror hits your house. You're fighting for
(10:41):
your life, the people you love are being murdered, and
the murderers are coming for you next, and you can
finally get to the phone, and now the phones are
jammed and you can't even call nine one one. It's
anybody's worst nightmare. It's a nightmare scenario and then a
nightmare within that. We know, for example, little Chris was
(11:02):
able to hide for some time during the murders. It
makes you wonder did he have access to a cell
phone or a house phone and tried to call for
help And couldn't you get through the scariest thought imaginable.
When we first started covering this, it was like, you know,
Ninja's in the night and it was all no one
could possibly figure out who did this? They were so skilled?
(11:24):
Whoever did this murder? Now we know it's pretty sloppy.
Did they just get lucky for two years. There were
shell casings left at the scene. That's how these people
get caught. They make mistakes, they don't cover all of
their tracks. This is one of the biggest murder cases
in Ohio's history, if not the biggest. So here we
(11:44):
are two plea deals, many motions, and two remaining trials ahead.
Is it possible that Angela Wagner orchestrated the plan to
murder other mothers in front of their children? And if so,
how could a mother create a plan that would turn
her own sons into killers. Forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan
(12:05):
remembers driving past the house where the Wagner family lived.
I remember traveling out to that home that they all shared,
that farmhouse. It made me think, you know, for that
moment time when I'm you know, traveling through that little
lane in front of the home, you sit there and
you kind of consider it, you know. I remember slowing
down the car and just kind of staring at it,
(12:27):
looking at it, you know, set there and that it's
a beautiful backdrop, you know, the fence and the greenery
behind it, and you're thinking about, you know, what kind
of plannings going on around the kitchen table. They're all
party to this, and it just becomes absolutely insidious. And
it seemed impossible to imagine that they were having murderer meetings.
(12:48):
We were speculating about that and it seemed impossible. But
now we do know that to be a matter of fact,
if we believe everything that's been said so far by
Jake and Angela. Yeah, I agree. You start talking about conspiracy,
you gotta have a meeting. You know, you gotta have
a meeting. It's a collaborative effort. You know, they had meetings.
(13:11):
Trust me. I don't know if anybody get minutes, but
they had meetings. Unique to this case is that there
are so many mothers involved on all sides. Three mothers
were murdered that night, including beloved matriarch, thirty seven year
old victim Dana Roden. Dana Roden was returning home from
(13:32):
working a double shift as a nurse that faithful night.
She was shot five times in the head, four in
the side of the head, and once under her chin.
Dana Roden lived on Union Hill Road with her nineteen
year old daughter, victim Hanname Roden. Hanname Roden shared a
two and a half year old daughter with admitted murderer
(13:54):
Jake Wagner. This child is said to be at the
center of this story. Hannah may Rodin had also given
birth just five days prior and was holding her newborn
when she was shot twice in the head. We should
remind you that there are two Hannah's in this story. Admittedly,
(14:15):
we know the least about mother and victim, twenty year
old Hannah Gilly. She had long blonde hair, were dark
framed eyeglasses, and hoped to start a daycare. She and
her fiance eldest son and victim Frankie Rodin, were murdered
in their bed in front of their six month old
and Frankie's three year old son. The children were found
(14:37):
alive at the scenes. Hannah Gilly was shot five times
in the head, once through the eye. To add another
layer to that that's already complicated story, Hannah Gilly was
the sister of Charlie Gilly. Charlie Gilly was the guy
(14:59):
Hannah may Rodin started dating after her split from Jake Wagner.
So the relationship between Hannah Gilly's brother, Charlie Gilly, and
Hannah may Roden feels significant to the story because it
was the first relationship that Hannah Rodin really got into
after her split from Jake Wagner. And of course there's
(15:19):
no way to know this for sure, or at least
until the trials happened, but it makes you wonder if
Hannah Gilly was shot so many times five to be specific,
because Jake Wagner felt some type of way about her
brother's relationship with Hannah May We're going to take a break.
(15:39):
We'll be back in a moment. On May second, twenty
twenty two, a mere three weeks before this episode is airing,
there was another court appearance. This was emotions hearing between
the prosecution, an accused old son George Wagner the fourth
(16:01):
defense team. It's the latest turn in Ohio's largest homicide investigation.
Attorneys for George Wagner the Fourth say there is proof
he did not kill any of the eight victims. Attorneys
for the oldest Wagner's son are now asking for murder
charges to be dropped. The hearing revealed even more details
(16:23):
of the Wagner's time leading up to the murders, the
night itself, and the aftermath. There was a specific focus
on how the Wagner family treated women who entered their fold,
beginning with victim Hanname Rodin, Jake Wagner's former girlfriend and
mother of his child. The court lays out how Hanname
was manipulated, abused, and controlled all but Angela at the helm.
(16:51):
Thank you. This is State of Ohio playtoff versus George
Washington Wagner the fourth defender. The case number eighteen's one
fifty five. Today's May second, twenty twenty two, and this
today hearing. We'd have a hearing schedule one motions. Today
the defendant was present in court. Attorneys, the record should
(17:15):
reflect to the defendish appearing to day, and so though
you clothed in visible restraints. The five foot nine George
Wagner the Fourth is thickly built, with green eyes and
thinning brown hair. He wears the same clothes to each
court appearance, a button down with a black vest over it.
George Wagner sits flanked by his two attorneys, largely keeping
(17:38):
his eyes lowered to the desk in front of him.
Here again, Special Prosecutor Ajakanepa, I should talk about what
we believe people were arching think of this criminal enterprise.
It's kind of the all for one and one raw right,
they functioned as a family unit, so part of that
(17:58):
was control over the two grandchildren in the next the
defendant son and Jake Starr also when Jake hold would
be this unborn child at the time, so in their
reaction to when they lose control of that. There obviously
also was some financial purpose behind some of what they did. Right,
(18:19):
they were homeschooled, very insular who did not have people
going off and doing things on their own. So as
far as the defendant and the relationship with Hannah, this
involves divesting violence towards Hannah. When we look back at
Hanname Roden's social media posts in the months leading up
(18:39):
to her murder, it's clear she was crying out for help.
In one post, she states quote end domestic violence, live
a happier life here again Angie Kneppa, further outlining the
length the Wagoners went through to attempt to secure Hanname
Roden's child. We do have admissions on the part of
Jay as to pushing her up against a wall and
(19:03):
basically having his arm in a position that it was
choking her airways. We have witnesses to him chasing her
in a vehicle after getting upset with her one day,
his controlling nature towards Hannah, including but not limited to
dictating every aspect in regard to their shared child. That
continued writing up until Hannah was killed. His controlling nature
(19:30):
towards Hannah regarding the second child, including but not limited
to telling her not to disclose the child's pactual father
that it was his child. Because Hannah was very forthright
with Jake and told him that it was not his child,
he tried to get her to agree to not tell
(19:50):
the actual father that the child was that person's child,
offering to give her money to put his name on
their certificate, trying to give vince her to move to
Alaska with the whole family, and suggesting that they raise
that child offside sheer child, as if the child was
the defendant. The father of the baby, Angie Kneppa is
(20:14):
referring to as Charlie Gilly, who had just heard about
Charlie Gilly dated hannahme rodin the summer before she was murdered.
He was later proven to be the father of her
five day old. Here's Stephanie and Jeff. This is the
(20:36):
story as old as time, and we hear it a
lot Unfortunately, jealousy plus rage often equals death, and this
case seems to be no different in that regard. Honestly,
it's a young mom. How do you murder somebody in
(20:57):
that way straight to the face. It seems as though
there has to be something more personal to this, you know.
We recently came across some personal photographs that were shared
with us, one of which is particularly haunting. It shows
Hannah May rodin in the hospital right after a giving
(21:19):
birth to her baby. She's sitting on her hospital bed
next to her father, also victim, Chris Roden Senior, and
she's holding her baby and wedge between them is now
who we know to be a murderer, Jake Wagner, sitting
between them, and he is smiling ear to ear as
(21:45):
though in a family photo, as if with his father
in law and the love of his life, Hannah May.
And really the truth of this photo is that he
was going to kill Hannah May, her father, and her
entire family. And that's the part that you just can't grasp.
He had different plans for everybody involved, and the photo
(22:14):
you can see in their eyes that this is not
a genuine moment that anyone is enjoying other than Jake Wagner,
which is just very tragic knowing what we know is
to calm or this family here again Special Prosecutor Angie Kneppa.
So they had actual people that lived near her reporting
(22:36):
back is the Randian or men around or etc. And
they would be cor back to Jake again. Jake's occession
with Hannah wanting to get back with her and me
and jealous of relationship with over males, and as we
indicated to the Court and honor, this was very reminiscent
of what George did with the mother of his trild.
(22:56):
George Wagner's ex wife was a woman named Tabitha. Together,
Tabitha and George Wagner had a baby boy, Angela. Wagner
fought tooth and nail to ensure she was in charge
of the son, so much that she emotionally tormented Tabitha
until the young woman snapped and gave up custody to
the Wagner family. We first heard about this abusive relationship
(23:21):
that Tabitha had with the Wagner family when we met
her sister Christina and mother Patricia a few years ago
in a trip that we took to Pike County, Ohio.
When we were there in Pike County, it was pretty
clear this was a pattern. Tabitha was the first target,
and she was scared enough that she actually turned over
(23:43):
the rights of her son to the Wagner family, and
that perhaps the Wagners were at it again, and because
the Rodent family was fighting this custody that that's maybe
why their lives were taken. We were there shooting a
documentary for NBC's Oxygen Network called The Rodin Family Murders,
(24:07):
and when we started speaking to people who knew the
Wagner family, what we uncovered was a pattern, a pattern
of not only abuse, but a pattern of the Wagner
family being obsessed with control of custody. And so while
we all thought hannah Me Rodin was the first victim
of this, it turns out that was not the case,
and that this other family felt as if they too
(24:29):
were the victims of the Wagner's obsession with control. And
I think it's worth noting that hannah Me Rodin and
Tabitha where would be sister in laws, they were also
really close friends and allies, and ultimately they were both
alleged victims of the exact same family of abusers, the Wagners.
(24:57):
Tabitha's sister spoke to us at length last reason, and
now for the first time ever, her mother, Patricia, has
also agreed to speak on the podcast as well. And
keep in mind, we now know that Tabitha's mother, Patricia
is really at the center of the trials ahead. What
we found is that their lives also may have been
(25:18):
in jeopardy had Tabitha not signed away her rights to
the Wagner family. It seems like it might have been
possible that they too could have been murdered. It's a
very chilling thought. Again, Angie Kaneppa on the Wagner's mistreatment
of Tabitha. They would meet as a family and take
(25:39):
votes before they decided what they would do. That would
range from where they were going to live down to
the most intimate details between a husband and wife, for instance,
intimate relations between George and Tabitha. Angela involved herself in that,
so there was literally nothing that was off limits. Everything
was done as a family unit. Let sinking. Angela Wagner
(26:02):
was even involved in the most intimate details between a
husband and wife. They ultimately made the mother of George's
child signed over entire custody to George with the agreement
that Tabitha could visit the child if and when the
(26:22):
Wagner said that she could. Angela has admitted that she
was the one having in social media that the reason
she was paying so close attention to Tabitha's Facebook was
because Tabitha was making noise about taking them to court
to finally get standard visitation with her child that she
(26:46):
had never been able to receive. So that was the
reason they were doing that. But they just happened to
see the conversation between Hannah and Tabitha's mother. This is
a level of control that she has over her adult
sons that is unparalleled. In Summer two, the teens and
(27:09):
the private Facebook message to show that a person telling
them that she did overside papers and people have to
tell me nurist was first seen by Angela teaching the
Squeech later Journey to Jade and the other Handily members.
In this moment, while illegally spying on her daughter in
law's social media, Angela Wagner intercepts a message from Hanname
(27:30):
roading to Patricia. Hanname stated that she would never sign
custody papers ever, writing quote they will have to kill
me first. Was this the moment that sealed the fate
of the eight soon to be victims? Let's stop here
for another break. Two months later, I resign yourself. Evidence
(27:57):
of the virus is homicide. In four months after design
reporter Antonette Levy a few kind of looked at the
big picture and looked at all of the details and
what we had been able to learn about. You know
(28:17):
how this whole alleged plan unfolded with Angela Wagner having
access to Hannah's Facebook account and seeing the message she
had exchanged with Tabitha's mother, you know, saying they'd have
to kill me first. And according to the prosecutors, Angela
shows that to Jake and then the whole plan unfolds
(28:38):
from there. So they're the driving forces. She's pleaded guilty
to basically hacking into these Facebook accounts and monitoring these people.
There was a lot of planning that went into this.
I mean, she was heavily involved, although she wasn't in
the room according to Jake, and according to her, somebody
had to stay home with the children. Right. This is
(29:02):
based on their collective shared suspicion of anyone outside of
their family and the safety and well being of the
children that George had and Jake had defending in his family,
preventing Tabitha from contacting her family during the time she
was I could be defending his family. She will tell
(29:22):
you that I believe she was allowed to call her
mother one day, I remember Mother's birthday or Thunder's Day.
Last season, we heard from Tabitha's sister, Christina, who explained
to us the abuse that Tabitha went through while living
with the Wagner family. This included tracking her movements, emotionally
(29:45):
abusing her, verbally assaulting her, making her feel less. Then
and ultimately, Tabitha was forced to make a dramatic escape
from the Wagner home. Even at the time, we were
not aware of quite how intertwined Tabitha and Victi hannahme
Rodan were until now, as Moore is coming out about
the months leading up to the murders, Tabitha's name is
(30:06):
really a part of this story in a big way.
Defending is mainly threatening to shoot Tabitha on the last
night she was signed with them, before fleeing for her life,
never to return to the residents. Defending and codefendants having
Tabitha's child who heard to and considered Angela as his mother,
spying on her through surreptitious means including been a limited shoe,
(30:26):
accessing both her and her mother's social media accounts, and
having mothers spy on her and get back to them.
They actually tried to enlist Hannah May while Pianamee was alive,
to get information that Tabitha might disclose to her and
report it back to them again. Paul to maintain custody
and control of the children. Defendant in this co defend
(30:48):
is taking actions to prevent Tabitha for being able to
be gained custody, including been limited to try and keep
the child from her for more than a year so
that they could claim abandonment. That was their distinct state
for doing that. As we just heard, the Wagners tried
to manipulate Hannah Me and Tabitha for their own means.
(31:11):
The two young women were both in near identical situations
and were very close. Here's Tabitha's sister, Christina. They were
best friends. Whenever Hannah was basically leaving Jake and all that,
getting out of Angela's brass, she was talking to my
(31:31):
sister about how to do it, and my sister told
her that she had just left. She got tired of
it before she had left. She asked my sister why
she had left and all that, and she was upsettor
at first because my sister had left her alone to
deal with it all by herself. But where they were
(31:55):
best friends, my sister took up for Hannah a lot
and didn't have that support anymore. Whenever Hannah finally left,
he was talking to my sister's tavvy that she was
glad that she had left, and she had tried so
(32:15):
hard for so long to work up the courage to believe,
and that she was really scared to do it, but
she was glad that she did. Stephanie and Jeff spoke
with reporter Angeanette Levy and death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan
and if you think of the details of the case,
(32:35):
they all signed the custody documents. Should Jake, Hannah or
George be killed or die, Angela gets custody of the children.
She sends them out fully knowing my boys and my
husband and may be killed and I may be taking
care and raising their children for the rest of my life.
(32:55):
To carry out this plan. I get chilled up. I
hadn't even thought of that Internet. That is even more
demented than I thought, because if she gets custody specifically
of Jake's daughter that he shared with Hannah, frankly, she
never had a daughter of her own. Speaking for Angela,
is this the granddaughter she never had? And is there
a version of this where the greatest plot is to
(33:18):
have everybody go away? I think to your point stuff
the idea that she's not there. I think that's a
more disgusting level to me that you know, here boys
go forth and do as I've said at this moment,
Tom and that that's kind of the impetus behind this.
(33:40):
And she kind of sends her minions out to do
this thing for her that she's planned. So again this
collective attempt, this strong desire con the enterprise to keep
complete custody and control the minor children. Jake threatened inn
(34:02):
a baby violence, saying that he would tell her and
her body would never be found before and again this
is a collective response. If there is nothing they do
not even there was private affairs without the consent for
willingness and participation of the other members of his family
(34:28):
speaking out for the first time on this podcast is Patricia,
mother of Tabitha, the ex wife of accused eldest son
George Wagner, the fourth Patricia's involvement is now known to
be at the center of the entire case. Yes, I
think she's guilty as being because I know the demeanor
(34:50):
of Angelis. She tries to be the loving, fearing mother.
But if you've seen the side of Angelis that I've seen,
you could doubt that she was all fake. If you
could talk to Angela and the first thing you went
through your mind as well, she's a cannoving bitch. And
if you had Tabla, that's why Tabsla limb I call
her to Dane. After Tabby watch leaves George, she couldn't
(35:11):
take Angela no more. For two years she lived with
him and was not allowed to have any contact with
me once whoever, because Angela didn't want her to. They
even went as far as taking dabs of cell phone
from her. So it's not hearsafe for me. Tabby wasn't
afraid of George, Annah wasn't afraid of Jake. They were
(35:32):
only afraid of Angela. But what we also know is
that there are new theories that dispel all of these accusations.
Everybody thinks all the bad stuff happens in the big cities,
but the devil works everywhere. Could Angela Wagner simply be lying?
And just who is she? It's impossible to imagine that
(35:54):
custody is the only thing. And in recent reports an
interview as we've done, it seems as though there may
be a larger plot in play. Stop miss a lie.
I just feel like something is not right. There's like
a good four or five places that burned out. This
is one of the biggest pieces of physical evidence that
(36:17):
we've had thus for There's a lot more secrets to
uncover in Pike County that involved the Wagner family and
the Rodent family. They drug the whole family through the mud.
Not use the mud, they drug us through. Hey, people
who could not or would not speak out before have
come out of the woodwork. We know the end. We've
(36:37):
got some idea what happened in the middle. I want
to know about the beginning. When did the switch flip
to where the only resolution was to go and kill
them all? More on that this season. If you haven't
listened to seasons one and two, last week's How We
Got Here episode, We'll Catch You Up. For more information
(36:58):
on case photos, follow us on Gram at Katie Underscore Studios.
The Piked and Massacre is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane,
Chris Graves and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed
by Jeff Tis, music by Jared Aston, audio mixing by
Ken Novak. The Piked and Massacre is a production of
(37:19):
Katie Studios and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
The number one podcast is back. They're my relatives. I
still love them. I pray that God forgives them. I
pray that I'll see them in heaven. But here on
earth eternity in jail is not long enough. Eight from
the same family dead in rural southern Ohio. One family
accused of killing members of another family. Just when we
(00:25):
thought we knew what happened during the piked And Massacre,
everything is turned upside down. I just feel like something
is not right. Was this truly about custody. I don't
think he would kill her, but I think he would
kill more her. Now, with childs on the horizon, new
(00:48):
theories arise. There's like a good four or five places
at Burndale. We're told he's lying because they're getting death
threats behind bars. I would sit to the jail house
in Pike County, good book, money on their book, So
it's not years ay for me. Why are we just
learning about this now? This is one of the biggest
pieces of physical evidence that we've had thus for. Just
(01:10):
when we thought it couldn't get any stranger or darker,
it has. This is the Pikes And Massacre, Season three,
Episode one. Mother May I officers wearing body armor guarded
Angela Wagner as she walked into a Pike County courtroom
(01:32):
to admit, after years of denials, that she helped plan
the murders of Hannah Roden and her family. On the
warm and heavily humid afternoon of September tenth, twenty twenty one,
in Pike County, Ohio, accused killer mother Angela Wagner, arrived
in court. She was wearing black and white striped prison garb,
and her hair, previously short and blonde, now hangs in
(01:54):
a long brown curtain. Here's Judge Randy Deering. You're admitting
for bargain? Were your wife require beyond reason? Bad? Do
you understand all of those? Right? It's hard to hear,
(02:15):
but that's Angelo Wagner admitting guilt. The mother accused in
Ohio's most complex Amazone investigation has just reached a plea deal.
As part of the deal, the aggravated murder charges against
Wagner were dropped. She also agreed to testify against her
family members. She will spend thirty years in prison and
(02:39):
cannot apply for parole. But the defendant to us understatements
were very visit to April this year in the usual
and her family member is all inspired together to committees
werenic defenses specifically the entry agent homes and for different
vacation in order to kill me that time, Yeah defendant
(03:06):
and the statement they joined recommendation to thirty years in prison.
Anguel Joe Wagoner did unlowly and was pursed to commit
everybody murder was another person who were persons, so her
specific targets of the Wagoners so sadly were killed simply
(03:27):
because they happened to be there. It's not clear which
of the eight victims were targets and which, as Angie
Kaneppa said, were killed simply because they happened to be there.
Was there a kill list and if so, were others
just caught by happenstance In the mayhem of the Wagner's
murder spree, she was aware that night they walked out
(03:50):
on the floor twenty and sixteen, who really were going
and what they were going to do? Maybe tried to
cover up their involvement in ange reference as well, Betters
tressaud Into eighty two wrestlers were found with the attracted Hilda.
In all Angela Wagner pled guilty to fourteen charges, including
(04:12):
conspiracy to commit murder, burglary, possession of firearms, tampering with evidence, forgery,
and engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity. We now
know that the Knight of the murderers, Angela Wagner, was
at home watching her two grandchildren while the others allegedly
went out on a kill Spring Courtney Armstrong a television
(04:39):
producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane.
In the three hundred and one days since our last
episode aired, there have been several significant court hearings. The
biggest yet an unexpected appearance by accused killer mother herself,
Angela Wagner. She's the second accused Wagner member to plead out.
(05:00):
You're Stephanie and Jeff speaking with forensic expert Joseph Scott
Morgan and journalist Angeanette Levy about Angela's plea deal. I
was surprised because apparently she's eligible for release after serving
thirty years. So who wouldn't take that because then she
can possibly and I say possibly, because she may not
(05:23):
live that long one day get out of prison. And
this is a huge revelation. I mean, for three years
now we've talked about the four core Wagoners being at
every Rodan home the night of the murders, all potentially
even being trigger polars, and to find out, Angela is
now kind of pulling the rug out from under that
story and saying that she was in fact actually at home,
(05:43):
presumably watching the children, as her husband and two sons
were out murdering the eight Rodan family members. Is a
big shift in how that night played out. That is
a very low sentence for somebody who, by her own admission,
is saying that she plotted plan to murder eight people.
I knew full well that they were leaving the house
(06:03):
allegedly to murder that night, so she stayed home in
babysat and just waited for them to get home. My
thought is, she doesn't have to be in the room
pulling a trigger here. There have been people that have
gotten the needle over the years for being a planner,
a facilitator, if you will, of a broader arching theme.
(06:27):
She knows what she's involved in, and she'd better be
thinking her lucky stars. You know, there's thirty years that
she's giving. Maybe she wasn't physically there. She was there though,
I mean It makes you wonder she's out going to
walmarts and by the shoes for her kids to go
do it like how a mom buys her kids shoes
for the first day of school, and now she's getting off,
(06:49):
probably with the lightest sentence. Did she have the wherewithal
to see that maybe if I stay home, my hands
are clean or much cleaner than the rest of my family.
If Angela Wagner was looking to protect her family and
her son's daughter, why would she possibly send her sons
out to commit murder, They too could possibly be killed.
(07:15):
You don't have to whitewash this in any way. She
was there, you know. We talked about the boots which
are going to come into play, I think, and we
talked about the weapons that were utilized and how the
setups on those were. She may not have had a
gun in her hand, but she was there in more
ways than one. It's very possible she is leaving one
(07:39):
of her sons her dead to take the hit for her.
That's even more demanded. She also was the shopper and
involved in a lot of the planning of this, and
I can say that now because she's admitted to it.
You know, she's not accused anymore. She's pleading guilty. Although
one interesting legal point is that Angela and Jake Wagner
(08:02):
have to testify to the satisfaction of the prosecution or
all four of their death sentences are back on the table.
That means, for an extreme example, if Angela and Jake
plead the fifth or do not testify to something that
the prosecution believes that they know according to the deal
they've made, this negates the plea deal. What a show
this court appearance will be so for the first time.
(08:25):
Billy Wagner, the accused father, George Wagner, the accused eldest son,
both now are moving forward with their trials, and ultimately
Jake Wagner, the youngest son, and now mom Angela Wagner,
will testify against them in front of them ida eye,
and if the stories don't add up, they all could
(08:47):
be looking at death sentences. It basically means that Angela
and Jake Wagner better bring the goods to the trial.
According to Angela Wagner's testimony, her family purchased quite a
few things to prepare for this murder. Special shoes from Walmart, ammunition,
a magazine, clip, brass, catchers and a bug detector, and
(09:10):
a bug detector is something that detects signals admitted from cameras,
which would help figure out if there were surveillance cameras.
So there was clearly a lot of thought and preparation
for this murder. This was not a crime of passion.
Here Special Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa further describing the Wagner's alleged
planning of the murders, specific purchases they made and actions
(09:32):
they took to cover up the crime. The foes retire
together any automicide and defended to a part in that
as well as making various purchases to accomplish people there
needed to phones of all victids and cameras and others
to be able to Additionally, the destroy those items before
acumis to gain after planning for mass committing automa sides
(09:55):
and be carrying the commiside out. Four defendend time tri
asking others or to be dishonest with us actually admitted
to purchasings are him relating to the events. Is that
we're meant to help the other pretty good events and
carrying out the crimes. Such a which defends people to
be able to call for help. The thought of the
(10:17):
jammers is so horrifying. I mean, the forethought that would
go into disabling the Rodents family's phones so that they
wouldn't be able to call for help as they were
being shot to death is really just a very scary visual.
Can you imagine horror hits your house. You're fighting for
(10:41):
your life, the people you love are being murdered, and
the murderers are coming for you next, and you can
finally get to the phone, and now the phones are
jammed and you can't even call nine one one. It's
anybody's worst nightmare. It's a nightmare scenario and then a
nightmare within that. We know, for example, little Chris was
(11:02):
able to hide for some time during the murders. It
makes you wonder did he have access to a cell
phone or a house phone and tried to call for
help And couldn't you get through the scariest thought imaginable.
When we first started covering this, it was like, you know,
Ninja's in the night and it was all no one
could possibly figure out who did this? They were so skilled?
(11:24):
Whoever did this murder? Now we know it's pretty sloppy.
Did they just get lucky for two years. There were
shell casings left at the scene. That's how these people
get caught. They make mistakes, they don't cover all of
their tracks. This is one of the biggest murder cases
in Ohio's history, if not the biggest. So here we
(11:44):
are two plea deals, many motions, and two remaining trials ahead.
Is it possible that Angela Wagner orchestrated the plan to
murder other mothers in front of their children? And if so,
how could a mother create a plan that would turn
her own sons into killers. Forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan
(12:05):
remembers driving past the house where the Wagner family lived.
I remember traveling out to that home that they all shared,
that farmhouse. It made me think, you know, for that
moment time when I'm you know, traveling through that little
lane in front of the home, you sit there and
you kind of consider it, you know. I remember slowing
down the car and just kind of staring at it,
(12:27):
looking at it, you know, set there and that it's
a beautiful backdrop, you know, the fence and the greenery
behind it, and you're thinking about, you know, what kind
of plannings going on around the kitchen table. They're all
party to this, and it just becomes absolutely insidious. And
it seemed impossible to imagine that they were having murderer meetings.
(12:48):
We were speculating about that and it seemed impossible. But
now we do know that to be a matter of fact,
if we believe everything that's been said so far by
Jake and Angela. Yeah, I agree. You start talking about conspiracy,
you gotta have a meeting. You know, you gotta have
a meeting. It's a collaborative effort. You know, they had meetings.
(13:11):
Trust me. I don't know if anybody get minutes, but
they had meetings. Unique to this case is that there
are so many mothers involved on all sides. Three mothers
were murdered that night, including beloved matriarch, thirty seven year
old victim Dana Roden. Dana Roden was returning home from
(13:32):
working a double shift as a nurse that faithful night.
She was shot five times in the head, four in
the side of the head, and once under her chin.
Dana Roden lived on Union Hill Road with her nineteen
year old daughter, victim Hanname Roden. Hanname Roden shared a
two and a half year old daughter with admitted murderer
(13:54):
Jake Wagner. This child is said to be at the
center of this story. Hannah may Rodin had also given
birth just five days prior and was holding her newborn
when she was shot twice in the head. We should
remind you that there are two Hannah's in this story. Admittedly,
(14:15):
we know the least about mother and victim, twenty year
old Hannah Gilly. She had long blonde hair, were dark
framed eyeglasses, and hoped to start a daycare. She and
her fiance eldest son and victim Frankie Rodin, were murdered
in their bed in front of their six month old
and Frankie's three year old son. The children were found
(14:37):
alive at the scenes. Hannah Gilly was shot five times
in the head, once through the eye. To add another
layer to that that's already complicated story, Hannah Gilly was
the sister of Charlie Gilly. Charlie Gilly was the guy
(14:59):
Hannah may Rodin started dating after her split from Jake Wagner.
So the relationship between Hannah Gilly's brother, Charlie Gilly, and
Hannah may Roden feels significant to the story because it
was the first relationship that Hannah Rodin really got into
after her split from Jake Wagner. And of course there's
(15:19):
no way to know this for sure, or at least
until the trials happened, but it makes you wonder if
Hannah Gilly was shot so many times five to be specific,
because Jake Wagner felt some type of way about her
brother's relationship with Hannah May We're going to take a break.
(15:39):
We'll be back in a moment. On May second, twenty
twenty two, a mere three weeks before this episode is airing,
there was another court appearance. This was emotions hearing between
the prosecution, an accused old son George Wagner the fourth
(16:01):
defense team. It's the latest turn in Ohio's largest homicide investigation.
Attorneys for George Wagner the Fourth say there is proof
he did not kill any of the eight victims. Attorneys
for the oldest Wagner's son are now asking for murder
charges to be dropped. The hearing revealed even more details
(16:23):
of the Wagner's time leading up to the murders, the
night itself, and the aftermath. There was a specific focus
on how the Wagner family treated women who entered their fold,
beginning with victim Hanname Rodin, Jake Wagner's former girlfriend and
mother of his child. The court lays out how Hanname
was manipulated, abused, and controlled all but Angela at the helm.
(16:51):
Thank you. This is State of Ohio playtoff versus George
Washington Wagner the fourth defender. The case number eighteen's one
fifty five. Today's May second, twenty twenty two, and this
today hearing. We'd have a hearing schedule one motions. Today
the defendant was present in court. Attorneys, the record should
(17:15):
reflect to the defendish appearing to day, and so though
you clothed in visible restraints. The five foot nine George
Wagner the Fourth is thickly built, with green eyes and
thinning brown hair. He wears the same clothes to each
court appearance, a button down with a black vest over it.
George Wagner sits flanked by his two attorneys, largely keeping
(17:38):
his eyes lowered to the desk in front of him.
Here again, Special Prosecutor Ajakanepa, I should talk about what
we believe people were arching think of this criminal enterprise.
It's kind of the all for one and one raw right,
they functioned as a family unit, so part of that
(17:58):
was control over the two grandchildren in the next the
defendant son and Jake Starr also when Jake hold would
be this unborn child at the time, so in their
reaction to when they lose control of that. There obviously
also was some financial purpose behind some of what they did. Right,
(18:19):
they were homeschooled, very insular who did not have people
going off and doing things on their own. So as
far as the defendant and the relationship with Hannah, this
involves divesting violence towards Hannah. When we look back at
Hanname Roden's social media posts in the months leading up
(18:39):
to her murder, it's clear she was crying out for help.
In one post, she states quote end domestic violence, live
a happier life here again Angie Kneppa, further outlining the
length the Wagoners went through to attempt to secure Hanname
Roden's child. We do have admissions on the part of
Jay as to pushing her up against a wall and
(19:03):
basically having his arm in a position that it was
choking her airways. We have witnesses to him chasing her
in a vehicle after getting upset with her one day,
his controlling nature towards Hannah, including but not limited to
dictating every aspect in regard to their shared child. That
continued writing up until Hannah was killed. His controlling nature
(19:30):
towards Hannah regarding the second child, including but not limited
to telling her not to disclose the child's pactual father
that it was his child. Because Hannah was very forthright
with Jake and told him that it was not his child,
he tried to get her to agree to not tell
(19:50):
the actual father that the child was that person's child,
offering to give her money to put his name on
their certificate, trying to give vince her to move to
Alaska with the whole family, and suggesting that they raise
that child offside sheer child, as if the child was
the defendant. The father of the baby, Angie Kneppa is
(20:14):
referring to as Charlie Gilly, who had just heard about
Charlie Gilly dated hannahme rodin the summer before she was murdered.
He was later proven to be the father of her
five day old. Here's Stephanie and Jeff. This is the
(20:36):
story as old as time, and we hear it a
lot Unfortunately, jealousy plus rage often equals death, and this
case seems to be no different in that regard. Honestly,
it's a young mom. How do you murder somebody in
(20:57):
that way straight to the face. It seems as though
there has to be something more personal to this, you know.
We recently came across some personal photographs that were shared
with us, one of which is particularly haunting. It shows
Hannah May rodin in the hospital right after a giving
(21:19):
birth to her baby. She's sitting on her hospital bed
next to her father, also victim, Chris Roden Senior, and
she's holding her baby and wedge between them is now
who we know to be a murderer, Jake Wagner, sitting
between them, and he is smiling ear to ear as
(21:45):
though in a family photo, as if with his father
in law and the love of his life, Hannah May.
And really the truth of this photo is that he
was going to kill Hannah May, her father, and her
entire family. And that's the part that you just can't grasp.
He had different plans for everybody involved, and the photo
(22:14):
you can see in their eyes that this is not
a genuine moment that anyone is enjoying other than Jake Wagner,
which is just very tragic knowing what we know is
to calm or this family here again Special Prosecutor Angie Kneppa.
So they had actual people that lived near her reporting
(22:36):
back is the Randian or men around or etc. And
they would be cor back to Jake again. Jake's occession
with Hannah wanting to get back with her and me
and jealous of relationship with over males, and as we
indicated to the Court and honor, this was very reminiscent
of what George did with the mother of his trild.
(22:56):
George Wagner's ex wife was a woman named Tabitha. Together,
Tabitha and George Wagner had a baby boy, Angela. Wagner
fought tooth and nail to ensure she was in charge
of the son, so much that she emotionally tormented Tabitha
until the young woman snapped and gave up custody to
the Wagner family. We first heard about this abusive relationship
(23:21):
that Tabitha had with the Wagner family when we met
her sister Christina and mother Patricia a few years ago
in a trip that we took to Pike County, Ohio.
When we were there in Pike County, it was pretty
clear this was a pattern. Tabitha was the first target,
and she was scared enough that she actually turned over
(23:43):
the rights of her son to the Wagner family, and
that perhaps the Wagners were at it again, and because
the Rodent family was fighting this custody that that's maybe
why their lives were taken. We were there shooting a
documentary for NBC's Oxygen Network called The Rodin Family Murders,
(24:07):
and when we started speaking to people who knew the
Wagner family, what we uncovered was a pattern, a pattern
of not only abuse, but a pattern of the Wagner
family being obsessed with control of custody. And so while
we all thought hannah Me Rodin was the first victim
of this, it turns out that was not the case,
and that this other family felt as if they too
(24:29):
were the victims of the Wagner's obsession with control. And
I think it's worth noting that hannah Me Rodin and
Tabitha where would be sister in laws, they were also
really close friends and allies, and ultimately they were both
alleged victims of the exact same family of abusers, the Wagners.
(24:57):
Tabitha's sister spoke to us at length last reason, and
now for the first time ever, her mother, Patricia, has
also agreed to speak on the podcast as well. And
keep in mind, we now know that Tabitha's mother, Patricia
is really at the center of the trials ahead. What
we found is that their lives also may have been
(25:18):
in jeopardy had Tabitha not signed away her rights to
the Wagner family. It seems like it might have been
possible that they too could have been murdered. It's a
very chilling thought. Again, Angie Kaneppa on the Wagner's mistreatment
of Tabitha. They would meet as a family and take
(25:39):
votes before they decided what they would do. That would
range from where they were going to live down to
the most intimate details between a husband and wife, for instance,
intimate relations between George and Tabitha. Angela involved herself in that,
so there was literally nothing that was off limits. Everything
was done as a family unit. Let sinking. Angela Wagner
(26:02):
was even involved in the most intimate details between a
husband and wife. They ultimately made the mother of George's
child signed over entire custody to George with the agreement
that Tabitha could visit the child if and when the
(26:22):
Wagner said that she could. Angela has admitted that she
was the one having in social media that the reason
she was paying so close attention to Tabitha's Facebook was
because Tabitha was making noise about taking them to court
to finally get standard visitation with her child that she
(26:46):
had never been able to receive. So that was the
reason they were doing that. But they just happened to
see the conversation between Hannah and Tabitha's mother. This is
a level of control that she has over her adult
sons that is unparalleled. In Summer two, the teens and
(27:09):
the private Facebook message to show that a person telling
them that she did overside papers and people have to
tell me nurist was first seen by Angela teaching the
Squeech later Journey to Jade and the other Handily members.
In this moment, while illegally spying on her daughter in
law's social media, Angela Wagner intercepts a message from Hanname
(27:30):
roading to Patricia. Hanname stated that she would never sign
custody papers ever, writing quote they will have to kill
me first. Was this the moment that sealed the fate
of the eight soon to be victims? Let's stop here
for another break. Two months later, I resign yourself. Evidence
(27:57):
of the virus is homicide. In four months after design
reporter Antonette Levy a few kind of looked at the
big picture and looked at all of the details and
what we had been able to learn about. You know
(28:17):
how this whole alleged plan unfolded with Angela Wagner having
access to Hannah's Facebook account and seeing the message she
had exchanged with Tabitha's mother, you know, saying they'd have
to kill me first. And according to the prosecutors, Angela
shows that to Jake and then the whole plan unfolds
(28:38):
from there. So they're the driving forces. She's pleaded guilty
to basically hacking into these Facebook accounts and monitoring these people.
There was a lot of planning that went into this.
I mean, she was heavily involved, although she wasn't in
the room according to Jake, and according to her, somebody
had to stay home with the children. Right. This is
(29:02):
based on their collective shared suspicion of anyone outside of
their family and the safety and well being of the
children that George had and Jake had defending in his family,
preventing Tabitha from contacting her family during the time she
was I could be defending his family. She will tell
(29:22):
you that I believe she was allowed to call her
mother one day, I remember Mother's birthday or Thunder's Day.
Last season, we heard from Tabitha's sister, Christina, who explained
to us the abuse that Tabitha went through while living
with the Wagner family. This included tracking her movements, emotionally
(29:45):
abusing her, verbally assaulting her, making her feel less. Then
and ultimately, Tabitha was forced to make a dramatic escape
from the Wagner home. Even at the time, we were
not aware of quite how intertwined Tabitha and Victi hannahme
Rodan were until now, as Moore is coming out about
the months leading up to the murders, Tabitha's name is
(30:06):
really a part of this story in a big way.
Defending is mainly threatening to shoot Tabitha on the last
night she was signed with them, before fleeing for her life,
never to return to the residents. Defending and codefendants having
Tabitha's child who heard to and considered Angela as his mother,
spying on her through surreptitious means including been a limited shoe,
(30:26):
accessing both her and her mother's social media accounts, and
having mothers spy on her and get back to them.
They actually tried to enlist Hannah May while Pianamee was alive,
to get information that Tabitha might disclose to her and
report it back to them again. Paul to maintain custody
and control of the children. Defendant in this co defend
(30:48):
is taking actions to prevent Tabitha for being able to
be gained custody, including been limited to try and keep
the child from her for more than a year so
that they could claim abandonment. That was their distinct state
for doing that. As we just heard, the Wagners tried
to manipulate Hannah Me and Tabitha for their own means.
(31:11):
The two young women were both in near identical situations
and were very close. Here's Tabitha's sister, Christina. They were
best friends. Whenever Hannah was basically leaving Jake and all that,
getting out of Angela's brass, she was talking to my
(31:31):
sister about how to do it, and my sister told
her that she had just left. She got tired of
it before she had left. She asked my sister why
she had left and all that, and she was upsettor
at first because my sister had left her alone to
deal with it all by herself. But where they were
(31:55):
best friends, my sister took up for Hannah a lot
and didn't have that support anymore. Whenever Hannah finally left,
he was talking to my sister's tavvy that she was
glad that she had left, and she had tried so
(32:15):
hard for so long to work up the courage to believe,
and that she was really scared to do it, but
she was glad that she did. Stephanie and Jeff spoke
with reporter Angeanette Levy and death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan
and if you think of the details of the case,
(32:35):
they all signed the custody documents. Should Jake, Hannah or
George be killed or die, Angela gets custody of the children.
She sends them out fully knowing my boys and my
husband and may be killed and I may be taking
care and raising their children for the rest of my life.
(32:55):
To carry out this plan. I get chilled up. I
hadn't even thought of that Internet. That is even more
demented than I thought, because if she gets custody specifically
of Jake's daughter that he shared with Hannah, frankly, she
never had a daughter of her own. Speaking for Angela,
is this the granddaughter she never had? And is there
a version of this where the greatest plot is to
(33:18):
have everybody go away? I think to your point stuff
the idea that she's not there. I think that's a
more disgusting level to me that you know, here boys
go forth and do as I've said at this moment,
Tom and that that's kind of the impetus behind this.
(33:40):
And she kind of sends her minions out to do
this thing for her that she's planned. So again this
collective attempt, this strong desire con the enterprise to keep
complete custody and control the minor children. Jake threatened inn
(34:02):
a baby violence, saying that he would tell her and
her body would never be found before and again this
is a collective response. If there is nothing they do
not even there was private affairs without the consent for
willingness and participation of the other members of his family
(34:28):
speaking out for the first time on this podcast is Patricia,
mother of Tabitha, the ex wife of accused eldest son
George Wagner, the fourth Patricia's involvement is now known to
be at the center of the entire case. Yes, I
think she's guilty as being because I know the demeanor
(34:50):
of Angelis. She tries to be the loving, fearing mother.
But if you've seen the side of Angelis that I've seen,
you could doubt that she was all fake. If you
could talk to Angela and the first thing you went
through your mind as well, she's a cannoving bitch. And
if you had Tabla, that's why Tabsla limb I call
her to Dane. After Tabby watch leaves George, she couldn't
(35:11):
take Angela no more. For two years she lived with
him and was not allowed to have any contact with
me once whoever, because Angela didn't want her to. They
even went as far as taking dabs of cell phone
from her. So it's not hearsafe for me. Tabby wasn't
afraid of George, Annah wasn't afraid of Jake. They were
(35:32):
only afraid of Angela. But what we also know is
that there are new theories that dispel all of these accusations.
Everybody thinks all the bad stuff happens in the big cities,
but the devil works everywhere. Could Angela Wagner simply be lying?
And just who is she? It's impossible to imagine that
(35:54):
custody is the only thing. And in recent reports an
interview as we've done, it seems as though there may
be a larger plot in play. Stop miss a lie.
I just feel like something is not right. There's like
a good four or five places that burned out. This
is one of the biggest pieces of physical evidence that
(36:17):
we've had thus for There's a lot more secrets to
uncover in Pike County that involved the Wagner family and
the Rodent family. They drug the whole family through the mud.
Not use the mud, they drug us through. Hey, people
who could not or would not speak out before have
come out of the woodwork. We know the end. We've
(36:37):
got some idea what happened in the middle. I want
to know about the beginning. When did the switch flip
to where the only resolution was to go and kill
them all? More on that this season. If you haven't
listened to seasons one and two, last week's How We
Got Here episode, We'll Catch You Up. For more information
(36:58):
on case photos, follow us on Gram at Katie Underscore Studios.
The Piked and Massacre is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane,
Chris Graves and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed
by Jeff Tis, music by Jared Aston, audio mixing by
Ken Novak. The Piked and Massacre is a production of
(37:19):
Katie Studios and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Hosts And Creators
Stephanie Lydecker
Courtney Armstrong
Jeff Shane
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