May 18, 2022 • 27 mins
Welcoming Claire & Erica to The Pod Club! We make so many choices in a single day that sometimes we just want to be told what to do, what to buy, what to listen to, what to eat. But recommendations, good recommendations are both an art and a science. Claire Mazur and Erika Cerulo, the hosts of the podcast A Thing Or Two are masters of the good recommendation. These best friends turn on their mics every week to tell us, in their words, “the next big thing when it is still a small thing.” This week, they are on The Pod Club to give a recommendation or two, or actually a lot of recommendations. From gossipy chat shows to series that feature the voices of older generations, Claire & Erica are sure to show you something new that will bring comfort to your daily listening.
Claire & Erica’s Show:
A Thing or Two
Shows Mentioned:
Jam Session
Celebrity Book Club
Every Outfit
Keep It!
70 Over 70
Call Your Grandmother
Anything for Selena
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Sorry, do you guys listen to podcasts? Really? Do you
want to listen to podcasts? It depends? Okay? Can I
try to help you find a podcast you'll like? Okay? Shoot,
it's a podcast about podcast about podcast Welcome back to
(00:20):
the pod club. Now, if you're anything like me, you
just want to be told what to do. It's true.
I want someone to tell me what to buy, what
to listen to, what to watch on the television. I
just want to take all of the stress of choosing
things out of my life. But giving good recommendations is
(00:42):
an art form. You can't just take advice from anybody.
It takes skill and good taste. And They've got these
two friends who are experts at telling you all of
the things. They just know what what. They're none other
than Claire Maser and Erica Sarulo. I've known Clarin Erica forever.
The two of them are close friends and hosts of
a podcast called A Thing or Two, and A Thing
(01:05):
or Two is Hey, here's a thing or two that
you might absolutely love that will change your life. In
each episode, the two of them work their recommendation magic
by telling you what you should be consuming right now.
They give you things that will make your life easier, brighter, yummier,
and dare I say it happier now? Because Claar and
(01:26):
Erica can tell us anything to do in our lives.
They also have a ton of good podcast recommendations, and
on this particular episode, I asked them to choose their
most comforting podcasts that just make you feel good about
life again. This episode is packed with recommendations, So get
ready pay attention. We're throwing a lot of shows out there.
(01:46):
You might even want a notepad. At the end of it.
You're gonna have a lot of listening that will bring
a lot of joy to your life. You've been best
friends and business partners for so long and then you
launched a podcast. Why did you do that? So we
had We used to have this company called of a Kind.
(02:08):
It was an e commerce company, but content was a
huge part of it. We sold pieces from emerging designers
and we would tell the backstories of the designers and
storytelling was always so woven into what we did. And
we had this newsletter that had become a brand calling
card that we would send out every Monday. We still
send it out. There's just ten things that we recommended
that we loved whether it was like an app, a book,
(02:28):
a recipe, and it became this sort of like runaway
success that you know, really helped grow the audience of
the business because people were interested in our recommendations and
we liked doing it. We liked this sort of like
lifestyle driven content, and somebody had invited us to be
a guest on their podcast. Grace Bonnie of Design Spunge
used to have this podcast called After the Jump. We
(02:50):
went on and we loved the format, like we loved
just talking and ad libbing and not being on camera
and just sort of like the privacy of the podcast
record format. Like, thank god we didn't know this before,
because we totally would have tried to have a college
radio show, um and and we're so much better off
having not, you know, god, thank god we didn't truly,
(03:11):
thank god we didn't do that. Um And so we
did it, and we started the podcast at a weird
point in the business where we didn't know what was
happening with the business and there was a little bit
of like why not, let's just try this thing. So
we emailed Heritage Radio Network, which was the internet radio
station where Grace would record her podcast which was in
the trailer a trailer in the back of Relair shipping
(03:34):
contain like a shipping container, shipping container in the back
of Roberta's Pizza and Bushwick. And we were like, could
we do a podcast and they were like, sure, you
can come, like do a test episode and then like
we can decide and we were like okay, and we
started doing it basically in a format that was riffing
on the newsletter format that was just like, let's just
like deep dive into these things that we love and
(03:55):
interview people who were excited about And that was spring
of twenty or like winter maybe or like early and
we just kept doing it like we are people who commit,
and we pushed it out every single week and we've
been doing it ever since and it's you know, it
used to be called A few Things. Now it's called
a Thing or two. We sort of rebranded when we
(04:16):
shut down our business, but kept the format the same,
and it's just been really fun for us. You also
have so many good guests, but you're also you ask
the questions that no one else is asking. I think
of your guests like you're you're just good good interviews.
Do you have a favorite guest that you've had on
mm hmm. Some we had on recently that I felt
(04:38):
like I got a lot out of, or just like
think about a lot is Nora McInerney, UM, and talking
to her about just like grief and and just like
how to be a supportive friend when someone's going through stuff,
because I feel like that's the side of it. We
hear so much less about. I mean, not that we
hear enough about grief at all, um, but you know,
if there's someone in your life who's having a hard thing,
how do you be there for them? That feels like
(05:00):
such a challenge. I went back and re listened to
that episode recently because I needed the advice and I
couldn't remember everything that was said, and I was like,
I need a refresher on this in some ways, obviously
everybody feels differently right when you're going through trauma, and
everybody needs something differently. So how do you know how
(05:20):
to say the right thing to anybody? Yeah? You don't.
You don't, And I mean truly, the reason that it
feels so fraught is because it is because you will
say the wrong thing and you will do the wrong thing.
And I have a catalog in my own brain, not
of just the things people did to me, but the
things I did to them, which is almost worse in
(05:45):
some cases, you know, almost worse to like really look
back and think of all the ways that you failed
to show up for somebody. And we don't know. And
I think part of like the reason is that we
were taught the absolute incorrect thing. I don't even know
what part of the Bible it's in, because I would
say that Catholic school served me in many different ways
(06:06):
that I've been to an alternative Catholic school, where like
we mostly just did like improvisational games, um and lip syncs,
and but there's a totally very heavily heavily okay, they
were like I could not name a book in the Bible.
But did I sometimes do interpretive dances about them? Yes,
(06:27):
absolutely so. But you know, we're taught to treat people
how we want to be treated, and that is incorrect,
because we have to treat people how they want to
be treated, all right. So the reason that I wanted
to have you guys on the pod club is because
I think that the two of you give the best
(06:47):
recommendations for life of anyone I know. I take your
recommendations for what I should read, what I should wear,
what I should put in my house, and also what
I should listen to. And I just want to hear
the two of you talk about the kinds of things
that you're listening to and what you think is awesome.
(07:09):
Right now, I think we have a lot we could
do that. Claire, I feel like you are are much
more dedicated, varied, um committed podcast listener than I am
right now. When I was putting together the list of
things I'm listening to, I was like, Oh, it's mostly
chat shows. It's like mostly two people talking to each other,
And like, I don't know, I don't know why I
(07:30):
have a lot of chat shows too. Well, I know
why because it's comforting. One. Did you see the article
in the New York Times about how the new type
of influencer is a comfort creator? And I was comfort creator.
I was like, you guys are your comfort creator? Guys
are definitely comfort creators. Yeah, I want you to have
business cards or actually, could we all get comfort creators?
(07:51):
Comfort creators. I was just so intrigued by the term.
I had no idea what it meant that I was like,
I'll read this article and then I was like, oh,
this actually makes so much sense, And I loved that
they compared it to like watching Friends for our generation
being the comfort thing that we did, and for this
new generation it's listening or for the most of the
comfort creators they were talking about were like YouTube people
who just you know, talk about their lives. I do
(08:14):
think chat shows, podcast chat shows are my comfort content,
like meat loaf. They're the meat loaf of podcasts for sure.
For sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly exactly warm soup just
exactly ficked. Like you know, nothing wrong, like really wrong
is going to happen here, and nothing hard is gonna
come up here. Like I'm not a true crime person.
Claire is not a true crime person. I don't find
(08:35):
that like kind of content satisfying. It all the steaks,
like I don't item it's so intrigued by people who
are interested in those steaks um, because I'm like, no, no,
I need like light celebrity news, light fashion news, not
even any of the complicated, like layered stuff that gets
broken apart. I want like like peak for that for
me is jam session um, which Claire and I both
(08:57):
I don't know that's in the jam Sessions One it's
on the ring Er Dish, so so it's the Ringer
has multiple podcast channels like feeds, and the Ringer Dishes
basically just entirely dedicated to celebrity gossip. And there's a
show on that feed called jam Session, But you have
to search for the Ringer Dish, like that's the feed
you want to subscribe to, which is like a bit
(09:19):
of a shame because it's a little I feel like
it buries it and it should be we should all
we should know this, we should all be listening to this.
It's hosted by Amanda Dobbins and Juliete Lihtman and they
talk about celebrity gossip in a very smart, like thoughtful way,
and they're never judging about it and they're never like
throwing anybody under a busp and they're always talking about
the things that I feel like we want to know,
(09:41):
like why not why is like nobu Malibu like back
right now? Like why is that a thing? And why
don't like noboo never Die? Um? And I'm like, yes,
like more of this content, Like where else are the
celebrities going? They love spending time on ben Affleck obviously, Um,
it's yeah, exactly. It's like exactly that you know that
if there's some celebrity news that you're interested in that week,
(10:02):
they will touch on it. They talk about the Brittaney
stuff and really like thoughtful ways. I don't know, they
just get it all right, Bill Simmons, if you're listening,
give jam Session their own feed. Do you need it.
Let's get sweat shirts for that too. We'll get a
comfort creator and then give jam Session its own feed.
I think that's perfect. Um. There are two others for
me in this like chat space that I turned to
(10:23):
with less regularity, the jam Session, but I find to
be like comforting in the same ways and like the
topic like topically just like so fulfilling. One is Every Outfit,
which is from the woman women behind Every Outfit on
Sex in the City that like Instagram account. Yes you guys,
I knew you do this, but you're recommending things I
haven't listened to. That's great, that is great. I love it.
(10:46):
I love it. Um. So it's hosted by this woman
Chelsea Farless and Lauren GARRONI and they talk about they
have been talking about Sex in the City reboot like
production stuff a little bit, but they also just talk
about fashion news and it's like they make it feel
like accessible. May they make it feel like there's like
everybody can all be in the know, of course, but
they also will make references to like a d or
(11:08):
show or whatever, but don't do it in a way
that feels pretentious. It's just like they care about this
and they have this knowledge, but like that doesn't mean
it's exclusionary, and that just feels like a fun um
way at this. And then the other is Celebrity book
Club hosted by Stephen Phillips Horst and Lily Morota Um
and they are like childhood best friends from Boston. There's
(11:28):
a lot of like they're like child like, they're like
middle school years, get surfaced in a way that's like
very compelling, and they just do extreme deep dives into
celebrity memoirs. Um and it's fantastic. Who's that knocking at
the door. It's all your friends. You're filthy horps, your
husband's gone and you've got books and on the bottle
(11:49):
of mind to kill. It's gossip. I'm sure about to
read it while it's hot. Club, tell your secrets. We
won't talk. No boys are allowed. Books celebrity club buzz
(12:16):
me and I brought the queer vote. That is something
I didn't think that I needed in my life, but
maybe I do. I've been on a real like celebrity
memoir kick in general, like an audio book kick, and
they sometimes are, you know, nine hours long, and this
is the like hour long option you know when you
(12:38):
don't when you don't like necessarily need all the nitty
gritty details of Demi Moore's life, which like I don't know,
maybe you just do um, but really quick, really quick?
Is there one? Is there one celebrity memoir episode that's
particularly good. We just feel really strongly about the Jessica
Simpson autobiography in general, and I think that that should
(12:59):
be surfaced and every opportunity that it can if anybody
hasn't listened to that, Like we're just gonna assume that
everyone has because it's just so good and you'd be
missing out if you hadn't read or listen to this um.
But yeah, and like specifically, maybe discussions of John Mayer
in that book, because he comes off is just completely insane.
She talks about how he would like go hang out
with her parents after they broke up. It's it's deeply crazy. Um.
(13:24):
Before we leave the celebrity gossip chat show section of
this podcast, UM, we have to talk about keep it
from Ira Madison and Wispertell and Ada Asman. It is
so good. They are like they all also work in
Hollywood and like very ways, so you feel like you're
getting a little bit of like insidery access. And they're
also have like weird uh sort of like passions and
(13:46):
interest for like throwback Broadway stuff and like show tunes
and just like not always the run of the mill
celebrity stuff that you think you're going to get, And
it is delightful. They do great celebrity interviews and they
get really good guests again because they're like in Hollywood
world and just have good chemistry. Has Gail replaced Oprah
(14:09):
the Megan A Stallion interview? Right like the Megan A
Stallion interview with Gail? I feel like I was recently
talking with people about Wendy Williams um and sort of
like her place in culture, and we don't really talk
about her and Oprah in like the same breath, even
though they sort of like are running the like the
like the daytime games for like Black women right, But
(14:31):
like I think it's because Oprah only now does like
Harry and Megan, you know, Like I think like it's
Gail the one who like people go to for that
chat because I feel like Megan A. Stallion would have
been on Oprah back in the day. I feel like
Gail has assumed the position of doing the like kind
of hard hitting revelatory interviews like the one that we
my first time really clocking her as that position is
(14:53):
a more journalistic expression was with our Kelly Robert shifted
in that moment. I think Oprah has kind of gone
into her spiritual a little bag where it's more so Mike,
how do you feel about getting shot in the foot?
And Gails like, girl, what happened? You know? Also, I
just want to say, I write you did a brief?
(15:35):
Do you have other recommendations? Um? What else? I As
we were as I was prepping for this episode, Erica
reminded me how much I loved the show seventy over seventy,
which is seventy interviews with people over seventy. It is
so good. I also just like I love older people
and it just gets me right in the heart. And
(15:56):
it is hosted by Max Lynsky, who you may recognize
from long form pot cast. He's just such a thoughtful interviewer.
The one interview that I think is like stand out
and I just think about kind of a lot, is
one with Lois Lowry, who wrote The Giver and Number
the Stars, Number Star books, who was like, I just
read so much Lois Lowry when I was a kid,
(16:16):
and I hadn't read it or thought about it in
so long, and I listened to this episode with her,
and she is unsurprisingly just so full of wisdom and
so wonderful to listen to and amazing. There's also an
interview with Susan Lucci that is delightful. I'm not even
like a Susan Lucci stand but I was like, she's
such an interesting character, let's hear what she has to say.
These people just have such like great insights on life.
And it's a nice response to all of the fetishization
(16:39):
of youth that we do in this culture. And I
feel like Eric and I have been like waiting for
somebody to do something like this where that's just like
really focused on on the older generation, and it truly delivers.
It's wonderful. In your memoir you read about being a perfectionist,
is that part of like not when in the not
(17:00):
in the emmy? Um why it didn't get to you
in the way that maybe people would. I think it
did was like you were just trying to get better
all the time. I don't know, I don't know. I
you know now, I know there's no such thing as
perfection and believe we want to let go of any
notion of that. How do you figure that out easy?
(17:24):
It seems very hard to me. Is there a point
in your life that you can point to where it
started to change for you, where you started to let
go of that? Well? I do think the rehearsals for
and to get you going, we're part of it. They
really were. I had to let go of it. I
had a lot to learn, and I realized that. I
realized it was a great opportunity, but I also wanted
(17:46):
to do it well. But doing it well didn't me
and I could do it like the first time. Plus
I was doing all my children at the same time
that I was rehearsing, And and things happened to you
in your life and you realize they were really not
in control. You're you're more fragile than that. You know,
in life's more fragile than that. When my son was born,
(18:08):
I read what I could read, and do you know,
no caffeine and no no glass of wine, and you
know the things that you were supposed to do. And
yet there was a flu epidemic that year, and the
last week I was pregnant, I called the flu. And
when he was born thirty six hours old, they took
him to nick You, which I didn't even know what
(18:29):
that was at the time, and the hospital, Thank Heavens,
was a hospital that allowed the parents of a newborn
into nic and so I could stay. I had a
c section, they allowed me to stay in the hospital
a little bit. I had an ivy, but I was
on wheels, so I could wheel down go into nikke You.
And there was a little porthole in the side of
(18:50):
his isolate and I could put my hand in there
and he would hold onto my finger, and I could
talk to him, tell him how much I loved him,
and and so on. I feel like we're just like
in this moment where we might start getting to hear
older voices um, which feels like a real treat. Like
I feel like we've been building toward it, and maybe
(19:11):
two is the year where it's just gonna be like
all right, yes, Like let's give all these like very
um experienced, knowledgeable subagenarians the content engines they deserve. Ye,
these people who have lived a freaking life. Man. I
love that podcast because I mean, like you, I, I
really I really enjoy older people because we I mean,
we just live in this social media saturated society where
(19:33):
it's all younger people's voices all the time, and I'm like,
what the hell do you guys know? No, I want
to hear from someone who's seven years old, he's been
on this planet for seven decades, like they're the ones
who've gone through it. I saw these really good it
was just thirty just like forty list just came out
a couple of weeks ago, and I saw really good
(19:55):
posts on Twitter about basically people pulling like quotes from
the thirty under thirty UM honore Ease, and the quotes
were just like so lame and boring and depressing and
like weren't about life. They were about like just these
like you know, eighteen month old startups, um, and nothing
to take from these people. You don't know anything your
twenty six and you don't know anything. It reminds me
(20:17):
of when I had a baby, and it was like
our pr was like, there's all these press opportunities around
it for you to give quotes about being a mom,
and I was like, I've been a mom for two seconds.
Who wants to hear from me about being a mom?
I have no insights interview someone who's done this multiple
times and whose kids children are like still alive and thriving.
I have something else to recommend that is also featuring
an over seven year old that is not actually a podcast,
(20:39):
but I think it is still allowed on this radio show.
It is the audiobook Miracle and Wonder. That is Malcolm
Gladwell interviewing Paul Simon. But I'm such a Paul Simon
super fan. But I feel like even if you're not,
it's just such an interesting story to hear about his career,
and in a similar way to the lowest lowry interview,
(20:59):
where you're are like you, people maybe don't acknowledge enough
how incredibly like influential and iconic you are like. And
of course people know like Paul Simon is is a
big deal, but just to hear the stories and to
hear like the stories of what headline news Graceland was
and how controversial it was at the time, and the
fact that like people were not talking about music on
(21:20):
the front page of any newspaper at that time, but
Graceland was on the front page of stuff. It was
such a good interview for and just like a really
fun listen. I actually so I have I have a
show I want to recommend to you guys. Please, I
love recommending things. I don't know if you've heard it,
but even if even if you have, I just I
want to talk about It's called Call your Grandmother. I
(21:42):
don't know this one talking about, you know, since we're
talking about shows about advice and just like world wisdom
from people of a certain age, this is just a
group of really bad ass Jewish grandma's giving advice to
young are people, mostly millennials and millennials whoa amazing I
(22:06):
love that it was created by my friend Merril Poster
and made by a bunch of my friends at I
Heeart Radio. Truly the content we've been waiting for. I'm
doing my podcast. I'll call you back. My name is
Rita kay I am Ellen Bernstein Grodsky. This is all
(22:27):
your your grandmother. What's the matter with you, Allen? She
said to say it quickly. This is really something at
my age that I am just so excited about. It
is a podcast about the relationship between grandmothers and grandchildren.
As my mother would have said, Taka, who wouldn't have
(22:48):
wanted a Jewish grandmother? And then what else? What else
you guys got for me? Um? I have one other
that kind of like in the end a little bit
relates to Claire's Uh Paul Simon Wreck, which is anything
for Selena UM, which if you like Dolly Parton's America,
(23:12):
like this is like for you. It's it's hosted by
a woman, Maria Garcia, who grew up on the US
Mexico border and like never felt American, never felt Mexican. Um.
She didn't see herself in any culture. And then this
was a moment where she was like, oh my God,
like yes this UM. And so it follows Selena's influence
and rise and obviously fall um, but also just like
(23:34):
has those moments of you know, what it meant for
Selena to be on the cover of People magazine and
like how huge a moment that was, and and that
you know, the ways that she paved the way for
j Lo and like other actresses and musicians and artists
who came who came after her. It's really captivating and
it has a little bit of that like you're wrong
about energy, um, just in that like way of like this,
(23:56):
like you don't fully understand this story even though you
think you do, and even though used in a movie
once when when you were a school. After I listened
to Anything for Selena the podcast, which I really really enjoyed,
I went back and watched Selena the movie, and I
the podcast is so much better. I think I learned
(24:17):
so much more about what Selena meant for. Yes, the
cultural zeitgeist at the time, Yes, exactly. I feel like
that's what it is. I like didn't have an understanding
of the true cultural impact into listening to this. It's
about Selena, but it's also about Maria's journey as a
young woman, and I think that's what makes it makes
it so beautiful. Yeah, and just about identity sort of broadly,
(24:39):
to which I think is interesting. Mm hmm. I want
to play a little bit of of Anything for Selena.
This journey begins at the border, a place in the
in between where for a long time I felt divided
into Then I discovered her red lips, brown skin, big hooks.
(25:09):
She was magnetic no matter what side of the border
she was on. Who All right, I'm so glad I
got to see you, ladies. This has been amazing, how wonderful.
Rest of the day. Guys, you two bye, you too. Bye.
(25:30):
That is it for today's Pod Club. I really hope
that you found something in there that is going to
be life changing or day changing or just morning changing.
Just in case you missed something, here's a roundup of
what we recommended today Jam Session, which you can find
in the feet of the Ringer Dish, Every Outfit, Celebrity
(25:51):
book Club, keep it with an exclamation mark. Seventy over
seventy so good, so good. Listen and Malcolm Gladwell's audiobook
Miracle and Wonder, a throwback to our very first pod
Club episode. And yeah, hey, wait, wait wait wait, there
is more Call your Grandmother and anything for Selena. That
(26:12):
was a lot. I know it was a lot, but
there's got to be something in there you like. And
we'll be back next week with even more recommendations. Be
good friends. The pod Club is hosted by me Joe Piazza.
Our executive producers are Me Again and Emily Marinoff. Our
(26:32):
producers are Mary Do and Darby Masters. Our associate producer
is Lauren Philip. Our theme and additional music was composed
by Aaron Kaufman. Aaron Kaufman is also our consulting producer
and special thanks to Nikki Etre. It was just a
wonderful human being who I like to think at the
end of episodes st
Sorry, do you guys listen to podcasts? Really? Do you
want to listen to podcasts? It depends? Okay? Can I
try to help you find a podcast you'll like? Okay? Shoot,
it's a podcast about podcast about podcast Welcome back to
(00:20):
the pod club. Now, if you're anything like me, you
just want to be told what to do. It's true.
I want someone to tell me what to buy, what
to listen to, what to watch on the television. I
just want to take all of the stress of choosing
things out of my life. But giving good recommendations is
(00:42):
an art form. You can't just take advice from anybody.
It takes skill and good taste. And They've got these
two friends who are experts at telling you all of
the things. They just know what what. They're none other
than Claire Maser and Erica Sarulo. I've known Clarin Erica forever.
The two of them are close friends and hosts of
a podcast called A Thing or Two, and A Thing
(01:05):
or Two is Hey, here's a thing or two that
you might absolutely love that will change your life. In
each episode, the two of them work their recommendation magic
by telling you what you should be consuming right now.
They give you things that will make your life easier, brighter, yummier,
and dare I say it happier now? Because Claar and
(01:26):
Erica can tell us anything to do in our lives.
They also have a ton of good podcast recommendations, and
on this particular episode, I asked them to choose their
most comforting podcasts that just make you feel good about
life again. This episode is packed with recommendations, So get
ready pay attention. We're throwing a lot of shows out there.
(01:46):
You might even want a notepad. At the end of it.
You're gonna have a lot of listening that will bring
a lot of joy to your life. You've been best
friends and business partners for so long and then you
launched a podcast. Why did you do that? So we
had We used to have this company called of a Kind.
(02:08):
It was an e commerce company, but content was a
huge part of it. We sold pieces from emerging designers
and we would tell the backstories of the designers and
storytelling was always so woven into what we did. And
we had this newsletter that had become a brand calling
card that we would send out every Monday. We still
send it out. There's just ten things that we recommended
that we loved whether it was like an app, a book,
(02:28):
a recipe, and it became this sort of like runaway
success that you know, really helped grow the audience of
the business because people were interested in our recommendations and
we liked doing it. We liked this sort of like
lifestyle driven content, and somebody had invited us to be
a guest on their podcast. Grace Bonnie of Design Spunge
used to have this podcast called After the Jump. We
(02:50):
went on and we loved the format, like we loved
just talking and ad libbing and not being on camera
and just sort of like the privacy of the podcast
record format. Like, thank god we didn't know this before,
because we totally would have tried to have a college
radio show, um and and we're so much better off
having not, you know, god, thank god we didn't truly,
(03:11):
thank god we didn't do that. Um And so we
did it, and we started the podcast at a weird
point in the business where we didn't know what was
happening with the business and there was a little bit
of like why not, let's just try this thing. So
we emailed Heritage Radio Network, which was the internet radio
station where Grace would record her podcast which was in
the trailer a trailer in the back of Relair shipping
(03:34):
contain like a shipping container, shipping container in the back
of Roberta's Pizza and Bushwick. And we were like, could
we do a podcast and they were like, sure, you
can come, like do a test episode and then like
we can decide and we were like okay, and we
started doing it basically in a format that was riffing
on the newsletter format that was just like, let's just
like deep dive into these things that we love and
(03:55):
interview people who were excited about And that was spring
of twenty or like winter maybe or like early and
we just kept doing it like we are people who commit,
and we pushed it out every single week and we've
been doing it ever since and it's you know, it
used to be called A few Things. Now it's called
a Thing or two. We sort of rebranded when we
(04:16):
shut down our business, but kept the format the same,
and it's just been really fun for us. You also
have so many good guests, but you're also you ask
the questions that no one else is asking. I think
of your guests like you're you're just good good interviews.
Do you have a favorite guest that you've had on
mm hmm. Some we had on recently that I felt
(04:38):
like I got a lot out of, or just like
think about a lot is Nora McInerney, UM, and talking
to her about just like grief and and just like
how to be a supportive friend when someone's going through stuff,
because I feel like that's the side of it. We
hear so much less about. I mean, not that we
hear enough about grief at all, um, but you know,
if there's someone in your life who's having a hard thing,
how do you be there for them? That feels like
(05:00):
such a challenge. I went back and re listened to
that episode recently because I needed the advice and I
couldn't remember everything that was said, and I was like,
I need a refresher on this in some ways, obviously
everybody feels differently right when you're going through trauma, and
everybody needs something differently. So how do you know how
(05:20):
to say the right thing to anybody? Yeah? You don't.
You don't, And I mean truly, the reason that it
feels so fraught is because it is because you will
say the wrong thing and you will do the wrong thing.
And I have a catalog in my own brain, not
of just the things people did to me, but the
things I did to them, which is almost worse in
(05:45):
some cases, you know, almost worse to like really look
back and think of all the ways that you failed
to show up for somebody. And we don't know. And
I think part of like the reason is that we
were taught the absolute incorrect thing. I don't even know
what part of the Bible it's in, because I would
say that Catholic school served me in many different ways
(06:06):
that I've been to an alternative Catholic school, where like
we mostly just did like improvisational games, um and lip syncs,
and but there's a totally very heavily heavily okay, they
were like I could not name a book in the Bible.
But did I sometimes do interpretive dances about them? Yes,
(06:27):
absolutely so. But you know, we're taught to treat people
how we want to be treated, and that is incorrect,
because we have to treat people how they want to
be treated, all right. So the reason that I wanted
to have you guys on the pod club is because
I think that the two of you give the best
(06:47):
recommendations for life of anyone I know. I take your
recommendations for what I should read, what I should wear,
what I should put in my house, and also what
I should listen to. And I just want to hear
the two of you talk about the kinds of things
that you're listening to and what you think is awesome.
(07:09):
Right now, I think we have a lot we could
do that. Claire, I feel like you are are much
more dedicated, varied, um committed podcast listener than I am
right now. When I was putting together the list of
things I'm listening to, I was like, Oh, it's mostly
chat shows. It's like mostly two people talking to each other,
And like, I don't know, I don't know why I
(07:30):
have a lot of chat shows too. Well, I know
why because it's comforting. One. Did you see the article
in the New York Times about how the new type
of influencer is a comfort creator? And I was comfort creator.
I was like, you guys are your comfort creator? Guys
are definitely comfort creators. Yeah, I want you to have
business cards or actually, could we all get comfort creators?
(07:51):
Comfort creators. I was just so intrigued by the term.
I had no idea what it meant that I was like,
I'll read this article and then I was like, oh,
this actually makes so much sense, And I loved that
they compared it to like watching Friends for our generation
being the comfort thing that we did, and for this
new generation it's listening or for the most of the
comfort creators they were talking about were like YouTube people
who just you know, talk about their lives. I do
(08:14):
think chat shows, podcast chat shows are my comfort content,
like meat loaf. They're the meat loaf of podcasts for sure.
For sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly exactly warm soup just
exactly ficked. Like you know, nothing wrong, like really wrong
is going to happen here, and nothing hard is gonna
come up here. Like I'm not a true crime person.
Claire is not a true crime person. I don't find
(08:35):
that like kind of content satisfying. It all the steaks,
like I don't item it's so intrigued by people who
are interested in those steaks um, because I'm like, no, no,
I need like light celebrity news, light fashion news, not
even any of the complicated, like layered stuff that gets
broken apart. I want like like peak for that for
me is jam session um, which Claire and I both
(08:57):
I don't know that's in the jam Sessions One it's
on the ring Er Dish, so so it's the Ringer
has multiple podcast channels like feeds, and the Ringer Dishes
basically just entirely dedicated to celebrity gossip. And there's a
show on that feed called jam Session, But you have
to search for the Ringer Dish, like that's the feed
you want to subscribe to, which is like a bit
(09:19):
of a shame because it's a little I feel like
it buries it and it should be we should all
we should know this, we should all be listening to this.
It's hosted by Amanda Dobbins and Juliete Lihtman and they
talk about celebrity gossip in a very smart, like thoughtful way,
and they're never judging about it and they're never like
throwing anybody under a busp and they're always talking about
the things that I feel like we want to know,
(09:41):
like why not why is like nobu Malibu like back
right now? Like why is that a thing? And why
don't like noboo never Die? Um? And I'm like, yes,
like more of this content, Like where else are the
celebrities going? They love spending time on ben Affleck obviously, Um,
it's yeah, exactly. It's like exactly that you know that
if there's some celebrity news that you're interested in that week,
(10:02):
they will touch on it. They talk about the Brittaney
stuff and really like thoughtful ways. I don't know, they
just get it all right, Bill Simmons, if you're listening,
give jam Session their own feed. Do you need it.
Let's get sweat shirts for that too. We'll get a
comfort creator and then give jam Session its own feed.
I think that's perfect. Um. There are two others for
me in this like chat space that I turned to
(10:23):
with less regularity, the jam Session, but I find to
be like comforting in the same ways and like the
topic like topically just like so fulfilling. One is Every Outfit,
which is from the woman women behind Every Outfit on
Sex in the City that like Instagram account. Yes you guys,
I knew you do this, but you're recommending things I
haven't listened to. That's great, that is great. I love it.
(10:46):
I love it. Um. So it's hosted by this woman
Chelsea Farless and Lauren GARRONI and they talk about they
have been talking about Sex in the City reboot like
production stuff a little bit, but they also just talk
about fashion news and it's like they make it feel
like accessible. May they make it feel like there's like
everybody can all be in the know, of course, but
they also will make references to like a d or
(11:08):
show or whatever, but don't do it in a way
that feels pretentious. It's just like they care about this
and they have this knowledge, but like that doesn't mean
it's exclusionary, and that just feels like a fun um
way at this. And then the other is Celebrity book
Club hosted by Stephen Phillips Horst and Lily Morota Um
and they are like childhood best friends from Boston. There's
(11:28):
a lot of like they're like child like, they're like
middle school years, get surfaced in a way that's like
very compelling, and they just do extreme deep dives into
celebrity memoirs. Um and it's fantastic. Who's that knocking at
the door. It's all your friends. You're filthy horps, your
husband's gone and you've got books and on the bottle
(11:49):
of mind to kill. It's gossip. I'm sure about to
read it while it's hot. Club, tell your secrets. We
won't talk. No boys are allowed. Books celebrity club buzz
(12:16):
me and I brought the queer vote. That is something
I didn't think that I needed in my life, but
maybe I do. I've been on a real like celebrity
memoir kick in general, like an audio book kick, and
they sometimes are, you know, nine hours long, and this
is the like hour long option you know when you
(12:38):
don't when you don't like necessarily need all the nitty
gritty details of Demi Moore's life, which like I don't know,
maybe you just do um, but really quick, really quick?
Is there one? Is there one celebrity memoir episode that's
particularly good. We just feel really strongly about the Jessica
Simpson autobiography in general, and I think that that should
(12:59):
be surfaced and every opportunity that it can if anybody
hasn't listened to that, Like we're just gonna assume that
everyone has because it's just so good and you'd be
missing out if you hadn't read or listen to this um.
But yeah, and like specifically, maybe discussions of John Mayer
in that book, because he comes off is just completely insane.
She talks about how he would like go hang out
with her parents after they broke up. It's it's deeply crazy. Um.
(13:24):
Before we leave the celebrity gossip chat show section of
this podcast, UM, we have to talk about keep it
from Ira Madison and Wispertell and Ada Asman. It is
so good. They are like they all also work in
Hollywood and like very ways, so you feel like you're
getting a little bit of like insidery access. And they're
also have like weird uh sort of like passions and
(13:46):
interest for like throwback Broadway stuff and like show tunes
and just like not always the run of the mill
celebrity stuff that you think you're going to get, And
it is delightful. They do great celebrity interviews and they
get really good guests again because they're like in Hollywood
world and just have good chemistry. Has Gail replaced Oprah
(14:09):
the Megan A Stallion interview? Right like the Megan A
Stallion interview with Gail? I feel like I was recently
talking with people about Wendy Williams um and sort of
like her place in culture, and we don't really talk
about her and Oprah in like the same breath, even
though they sort of like are running the like the
like the daytime games for like Black women right, But
(14:31):
like I think it's because Oprah only now does like
Harry and Megan, you know, Like I think like it's
Gail the one who like people go to for that
chat because I feel like Megan A. Stallion would have
been on Oprah back in the day. I feel like
Gail has assumed the position of doing the like kind
of hard hitting revelatory interviews like the one that we
my first time really clocking her as that position is
(14:53):
a more journalistic expression was with our Kelly Robert shifted
in that moment. I think Oprah has kind of gone
into her spiritual a little bag where it's more so Mike,
how do you feel about getting shot in the foot?
And Gails like, girl, what happened? You know? Also, I
just want to say, I write you did a brief?
(15:35):
Do you have other recommendations? Um? What else? I As
we were as I was prepping for this episode, Erica
reminded me how much I loved the show seventy over seventy,
which is seventy interviews with people over seventy. It is
so good. I also just like I love older people
and it just gets me right in the heart. And
(15:56):
it is hosted by Max Lynsky, who you may recognize
from long form pot cast. He's just such a thoughtful interviewer.
The one interview that I think is like stand out
and I just think about kind of a lot, is
one with Lois Lowry, who wrote The Giver and Number
the Stars, Number Star books, who was like, I just
read so much Lois Lowry when I was a kid,
(16:16):
and I hadn't read it or thought about it in
so long, and I listened to this episode with her,
and she is unsurprisingly just so full of wisdom and
so wonderful to listen to and amazing. There's also an
interview with Susan Lucci that is delightful. I'm not even
like a Susan Lucci stand but I was like, she's
such an interesting character, let's hear what she has to say.
These people just have such like great insights on life.
And it's a nice response to all of the fetishization
(16:39):
of youth that we do in this culture. And I
feel like Eric and I have been like waiting for
somebody to do something like this where that's just like
really focused on on the older generation, and it truly delivers.
It's wonderful. In your memoir you read about being a perfectionist,
is that part of like not when in the not
(17:00):
in the emmy? Um why it didn't get to you
in the way that maybe people would. I think it
did was like you were just trying to get better
all the time. I don't know, I don't know. I
you know now, I know there's no such thing as
perfection and believe we want to let go of any
notion of that. How do you figure that out easy?
(17:24):
It seems very hard to me. Is there a point
in your life that you can point to where it
started to change for you, where you started to let
go of that? Well? I do think the rehearsals for
and to get you going, we're part of it. They
really were. I had to let go of it. I
had a lot to learn, and I realized that. I
realized it was a great opportunity, but I also wanted
(17:46):
to do it well. But doing it well didn't me
and I could do it like the first time. Plus
I was doing all my children at the same time
that I was rehearsing, And and things happened to you
in your life and you realize they were really not
in control. You're you're more fragile than that. You know,
in life's more fragile than that. When my son was born,
(18:08):
I read what I could read, and do you know,
no caffeine and no no glass of wine, and you
know the things that you were supposed to do. And
yet there was a flu epidemic that year, and the
last week I was pregnant, I called the flu. And
when he was born thirty six hours old, they took
him to nick You, which I didn't even know what
(18:29):
that was at the time, and the hospital, Thank Heavens,
was a hospital that allowed the parents of a newborn
into nic and so I could stay. I had a
c section, they allowed me to stay in the hospital
a little bit. I had an ivy, but I was
on wheels, so I could wheel down go into nikke You.
And there was a little porthole in the side of
(18:50):
his isolate and I could put my hand in there
and he would hold onto my finger, and I could
talk to him, tell him how much I loved him,
and and so on. I feel like we're just like
in this moment where we might start getting to hear
older voices um, which feels like a real treat. Like
I feel like we've been building toward it, and maybe
(19:11):
two is the year where it's just gonna be like
all right, yes, Like let's give all these like very
um experienced, knowledgeable subagenarians the content engines they deserve. Ye,
these people who have lived a freaking life. Man. I
love that podcast because I mean, like you, I, I
really I really enjoy older people because we I mean,
we just live in this social media saturated society where
(19:33):
it's all younger people's voices all the time, and I'm like,
what the hell do you guys know? No, I want
to hear from someone who's seven years old, he's been
on this planet for seven decades, like they're the ones
who've gone through it. I saw these really good it
was just thirty just like forty list just came out
a couple of weeks ago, and I saw really good
(19:55):
posts on Twitter about basically people pulling like quotes from
the thirty under thirty UM honore Ease, and the quotes
were just like so lame and boring and depressing and
like weren't about life. They were about like just these
like you know, eighteen month old startups, um, and nothing
to take from these people. You don't know anything your
twenty six and you don't know anything. It reminds me
(20:17):
of when I had a baby, and it was like
our pr was like, there's all these press opportunities around
it for you to give quotes about being a mom,
and I was like, I've been a mom for two seconds.
Who wants to hear from me about being a mom?
I have no insights interview someone who's done this multiple
times and whose kids children are like still alive and thriving.
I have something else to recommend that is also featuring
an over seven year old that is not actually a podcast,
(20:39):
but I think it is still allowed on this radio show.
It is the audiobook Miracle and Wonder. That is Malcolm
Gladwell interviewing Paul Simon. But I'm such a Paul Simon
super fan. But I feel like even if you're not,
it's just such an interesting story to hear about his career,
and in a similar way to the lowest lowry interview,
(20:59):
where you're are like you, people maybe don't acknowledge enough
how incredibly like influential and iconic you are like. And
of course people know like Paul Simon is is a
big deal, but just to hear the stories and to
hear like the stories of what headline news Graceland was
and how controversial it was at the time, and the
fact that like people were not talking about music on
(21:20):
the front page of any newspaper at that time, but
Graceland was on the front page of stuff. It was
such a good interview for and just like a really
fun listen. I actually so I have I have a
show I want to recommend to you guys. Please, I
love recommending things. I don't know if you've heard it,
but even if even if you have, I just I
want to talk about It's called Call your Grandmother. I
(21:42):
don't know this one talking about, you know, since we're
talking about shows about advice and just like world wisdom
from people of a certain age, this is just a
group of really bad ass Jewish grandma's giving advice to
young are people, mostly millennials and millennials whoa amazing I
(22:06):
love that it was created by my friend Merril Poster
and made by a bunch of my friends at I
Heeart Radio. Truly the content we've been waiting for. I'm
doing my podcast. I'll call you back. My name is
Rita kay I am Ellen Bernstein Grodsky. This is all
(22:27):
your your grandmother. What's the matter with you, Allen? She
said to say it quickly. This is really something at
my age that I am just so excited about. It
is a podcast about the relationship between grandmothers and grandchildren.
As my mother would have said, Taka, who wouldn't have
(22:48):
wanted a Jewish grandmother? And then what else? What else
you guys got for me? Um? I have one other
that kind of like in the end a little bit
relates to Claire's Uh Paul Simon Wreck, which is anything
for Selena UM, which if you like Dolly Parton's America,
(23:12):
like this is like for you. It's it's hosted by
a woman, Maria Garcia, who grew up on the US
Mexico border and like never felt American, never felt Mexican. Um.
She didn't see herself in any culture. And then this
was a moment where she was like, oh my God,
like yes this UM. And so it follows Selena's influence
and rise and obviously fall um, but also just like
(23:34):
has those moments of you know, what it meant for
Selena to be on the cover of People magazine and
like how huge a moment that was, and and that
you know, the ways that she paved the way for
j Lo and like other actresses and musicians and artists
who came who came after her. It's really captivating and
it has a little bit of that like you're wrong
about energy, um, just in that like way of like this,
(23:56):
like you don't fully understand this story even though you
think you do, and even though used in a movie
once when when you were a school. After I listened
to Anything for Selena the podcast, which I really really enjoyed,
I went back and watched Selena the movie, and I
the podcast is so much better. I think I learned
(24:17):
so much more about what Selena meant for. Yes, the
cultural zeitgeist at the time, Yes, exactly. I feel like
that's what it is. I like didn't have an understanding
of the true cultural impact into listening to this. It's
about Selena, but it's also about Maria's journey as a
young woman, and I think that's what makes it makes
it so beautiful. Yeah, and just about identity sort of broadly,
(24:39):
to which I think is interesting. Mm hmm. I want
to play a little bit of of Anything for Selena.
This journey begins at the border, a place in the
in between where for a long time I felt divided
into Then I discovered her red lips, brown skin, big hooks.
(25:09):
She was magnetic no matter what side of the border
she was on. Who All right, I'm so glad I
got to see you, ladies. This has been amazing, how wonderful.
Rest of the day. Guys, you two bye, you too. Bye.
(25:30):
That is it for today's Pod Club. I really hope
that you found something in there that is going to
be life changing or day changing or just morning changing.
Just in case you missed something, here's a roundup of
what we recommended today Jam Session, which you can find
in the feet of the Ringer Dish, Every Outfit, Celebrity
(25:51):
book Club, keep it with an exclamation mark. Seventy over
seventy so good, so good. Listen and Malcolm Gladwell's audiobook
Miracle and Wonder, a throwback to our very first pod
Club episode. And yeah, hey, wait, wait wait wait, there
is more Call your Grandmother and anything for Selena. That
(26:12):
was a lot. I know it was a lot, but
there's got to be something in there you like. And
we'll be back next week with even more recommendations. Be
good friends. The pod Club is hosted by me Joe Piazza.
Our executive producers are Me Again and Emily Marinoff. Our
(26:32):
producers are Mary Do and Darby Masters. Our associate producer
is Lauren Philip. Our theme and additional music was composed
by Aaron Kaufman. Aaron Kaufman is also our consulting producer
and special thanks to Nikki Etre. It was just a
wonderful human being who I like to think at the
end of episodes st
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