December 15, 2021 • 27 mins
Welcoming Jamie Loftus to The Pod Club! In this week’s episode, host Jo Piazza sits down with Jamie, a hilarious comedian whose podcasts break down cultural niches in a truly unique way. From Aack Cast, all about how Cathy comics captured the zeitgeist of a generation of women, to Bechdel Cast, which deconstructs how women are portrayed in film to My Year in Mensa where she literally tests into Mensa and gives the genius club a run for their money, you can hear her genuine curiosity about every single subject. Jamie tells us about the shows she listens to to get inspired and we even get to recommend a brand new show to Jamie's line-up, Sounds Like A Cult.
We also bring on Sounds Like a Cult Amanda Montell to get to the bottom of her obsession with cultish language and behavior. After a sneak peak inside all these shows, you’re guaranteed to leave with a little curiosity of your own.
Listen to Jamie's shows:
Other shows mentioned:
Sounds Like a Cult: The Cult of Sororities and Fraternities
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
No matter how hard I try, my mother is never
gonna listen to my podcasts. She's not. And I know
that she probably doesn't even really know what a podcast is,
and she probably lies to people about what my job is.
And I just found out that I'm not alone. Before
we kick off today's episode, I have to play you
(00:23):
something that today's guest created. It is a song that
she's dubbed the show your Mom a podcast Challenge, and
I wish that I had created it. My mom was
afraid of the concept of a podcast. What is it
You get my computer virus? No, mom, it's radio on
demand from an unqualified person nobody's heard of. I can't
(00:46):
give podcast. I have an Android. It's true. My mom
has a five footok Android phone. It talked to me
when I was a child that I sent to the
link to my podcast, and she clicked it open up
right there, and then she listen to my little audio file.
Emma never looked back again. It's not happy you maam,
(01:09):
do listen to do a podcast? And she could listen
to the ages. It's a podcast about podcast about podcast
that came from the insane brain of the writer, comedian,
and obviously podcast host Jamie Loftus. If you don't know
(01:31):
her work already, you're going to be pretty psyched that
I introduced you to her. She's like that girl in
high school who's really funny and really smart and you
think is way cooler than you, but you're too scared
to go up to her. And then one day you
guys both missed the bus and so you're like, hey,
why don't we just go like drink of forty under
the bleachers and then you become best friends. Jamie came
(01:51):
on the scene five years ago with a podcast called
Bechtel Cast. It looks at popular movies through a feminist
lens and also makes it so that you can never
rewatch those movies without going ah. More recently, Jamie has
been focusing on shows that take little snippets of culture
and then totally blow up your understanding of them in
(02:13):
ways that you would never imagine, and most recently something
called ac cast a AC sorry ac sorry, Okay, I
(02:33):
want to talk to you about Kathy comics. I'm so
happy that Jamie agreed to come on our show and
drink that proverbial forty under the bleachers with me today.
Hi Jamie, Hi, how are you. I'm good. I am
so excited to talk to you because ac cast taught
me so much about Kathy, but more than that, it
(02:56):
taught me about being a woman in the world for
the past forty goddamn years. I'm glad. That's the most
I could possibly hope for. Well, it's one of the
things that I kept thinking, because it really is, Kathy
is this working girl who's just living and struggling, and
dating sucks and and work sometimes sucks. And what I
(03:19):
want to do is call up Sarah Jessica Parker and
asked her if she realizes that Carrie Bradshaw was really
just Kathy with better hair and better shoes, right there's
and I feel the same way about like it's so weird,
Like people really don't like seeing the Kathy within themselves
(03:41):
because every time you see like a famous fictional character
or even like a real person reject the Kathy like label,
it's because they're like Kathy and they're they're like in
this photo and they don't like it because it's the
same thing with like Liz Lemon. There's a couple of
Kathy references in The Dirty Rock to where it's like, yeah,
(04:01):
it's the whole premise of like upper class white lady
trying to have it all. Like that's what the Kathy
premise is. It's brilliant. You went back and you read
every single Kathy comic ever and you essentially do the
great epic Kathy narrative from start to finish. At the
(04:23):
end of it, did you love Kathy or did you
hate Kathy? I loved her. I loved her, and I
also felt like I understood her beyond what my like
preconceived notion of her, because she's really frustrating. It's not
like she's like this perfect aspirational person. But I really
(04:44):
I feel like by the end, I really appreciated where
she was coming from and just had like a greater
appreciation for characters who fail and like don't quite get
what they want. How did you get started in this
crazy podcast world? Because you've been doing it long before everyone.
(05:08):
Your barista, your cat had a podcast, like way back
in the olden days. Yeah, pre cat podcasts. Um So
I got started in sixteen where my friend Caitlin Durante
and I, who I just met doing comedy in Boston.
She was like, so, there's this thing called podcasts. There's
(05:29):
a million movie podcasts and they're all hosted by men.
Would you like to start uh podcast that is not
that doodcast? The questions asked if movies have women and
are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do
they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef in best start changing
(05:50):
it with the beck del Cast, And then a couple
of years ago, I started working on my own independent
series that tend to be kind of deep research and
picking random stuff that interests me or uh, just kind
of appears in my life and I make shows about them.
I want to tell our listeners about the MENSA show?
(06:12):
Who is that's more too misty? Yeah, So it wasn't
supposed to be a project. I was supposed to be
like a piece of click bait. I was writing for
(06:33):
like seventy five dollars in where I was going to
take the MENSA test and basically right about how ridiculous
I thought it was and how I don't care that
I didn't get into MENSA because they suck and their
dorks and I'm not. But then I secretly studied really
hard for the test because I was insecure and like,
(06:55):
I don't I don't know trying to prove something that
who knows what it actually was. I I need for
the test, and I passed the test, and I got in.
I did write like my goofy piece of click bait
that was just kind of like, I got in, I'm
a dork and I'm gonna destroy mental like it was
just very silly um. And then I immediately started to
receive death threats from this Facebook group and it just
(07:18):
escalated very quickly. There's just a ton of bigotry and
a lot of dark stuff going on there. So it
kind of started as a joke and then became, well,
now that I have like these people paying attention to
this group, what is it actually and trying to kind
of reverse engineer it into something more useful, And that
was sort of what the podcast was. All I can
(07:44):
see is a make America Great Again hat floating somewhere
in the crowd, attached to a petite woman's head, and
two says you know who she is already, and this
time he's right. Katie is one of the only people
in Firehouse who I am very familiar with. She of
the Firehouse community in extremely high regard, and after my
most recent piece on the group, she had commented on
(08:06):
an Instagram post of mine, saying the following, let it
be known that this comedian is a slimy fraud and
this is just the first line. Here are some select
passages from that comment, which is from February. I'm not
a fan of people throwing others under the bus to
further they're already unfruitful and destined to fail career. You
(08:29):
are the first person ever that are unmoderated group has
had to mass block because you're shady and trying to
ruin people's lives. You're probably one of the geekiest, most
unattractive people in our organization. So that's the person we're
talking about, and she's a few tables away in her
MAGA hat. You must have really good podcast recommendations, so
(08:56):
I'm dying, dying to know what you're listening to now. Yes,
it's a it's a mix. My weekly listen is always
WHO Weekly. That's my car podcast, that's my walking around podcast.
That's my unhealthy para social relationship podcast that I really love.
(09:19):
Welcome to WHO Weekly, the podcast where you learned everything
you need to know about the celebrities you don't. I'm
Bobby Finger. I'm Lindsay Wemmer and here's Audrina. This is crazy,
how all this is happening? Well, Lauren has gone. I
just started Who Weekly. I was until thank you until
about I'm it's I'm so glad to be here for
other WHO Weekly virgins, can you explain the who the
(09:43):
who universe? So I've been a hool again for about
three years now. It's just like the funniest celebrity gossip
show for people who like I feel like it's very
accessible for people who do not know anything about celebrity gossip,
which I kind have didn't, And it separates the world
of celebrity for like Who's, which are more like fame
(10:07):
chasy types or like not quite famous, definitely not a
household name but still desperately trying to remain relevant. Um.
And they only talk about the Who's the thems of
the world, Uh, like whatever you're Brad Pitts and Leo DiCaprio's,
they don't acknowledge the thems. They focused strictly on the cutthroat,
(10:29):
desperate world of the Who's. As a former gossip columnist
because that was my first job in New York City,
it reminds me of all of the people who wanted
into our gossip column so bad, which by the way,
at the time was like freaking Paris Hilton and Kim
Kardashian right, who were like I will do anything, I
will dance on the tables. They were the who's who
just wanted, they were desperate for the attention and who
(10:52):
weakly focuses on them. And they're also the hosts as
are so funny. I feel like they approached this the
topics with a lot of empathy too, or it's not
just like a beat down session, like they give people
ship when it's well deserved. I love their weekly Rita
Aura round up. She's like the clean of the who's
(11:15):
and she's always doing like five hundred sponsorships for water bottles.
And then yes, she went to Dallas for the m
Fire event, but she also did this weird wellness day
with her friends. Obviously her sister was there. Obviously at
Michael was there, but they were like doing yoga in
the backyard and instagramming it. When I saw the photos
from it, I was like, wait a second, I had
(11:36):
to like, I had to go back. I was like,
did Rita or his sister Elena have a wellness themed
birthday party. Like imagine going to a birthday party and
then being like, here, welcome. The food we're serving is
grilled vegetables, like clean grilled vegetables, and like Matcha Macha
drinks that are sponsored, and we're gonna do yoga and
like a sound bathroom. I guess now I'm saying, and
(11:59):
I'm like, these are real part is that people have,
But like, wow, what a theme? Alright, so who weekly?
And then what else? Is a near rotation whenever they
feel like dropping an episode. I really enjoy listening to
Say More with Melissa Losatta Aliva and Olivia Gatwood. We
(12:22):
didn't do any research. We are trying to obsesses same.
I'm very biased because I love them both a lot,
But there are two poets that live across the country
from each other. They've been best friends for a long time,
and I feel like they just have wonderful, funny, like
(12:45):
natural rapport. And I always feel better when I'm listening
to them talk about stuff, and I feel like it's
like such a cool, valuable thing in a conversational podcast
when people are like they're so willing to admit when
they don't know things I don't know. I just think
it's really great when people that are smart and cool
(13:08):
are confident enough to be like, yeah, I guess maybe
I don't know what I'm talking about there. Let's talk
about something else. Like I I they're the best. I'm
excited to listen. So I actually I have a podcast
recommendation for you. Okay, it is called Sounds Like a
Cult from Amanda Montee. I haven't listened yet. So Amanda
(13:30):
wrote the book Cultish and also the book Words Slot,
and she gets into all of the linguistics about cults.
And in each episode they take something that you think
is not a cult and talk about why it's definitely
a cult. And I thought about it for you because
you think about mensa a so you're like, oh, it's
just a group of smart people. It's definitely a cult.
(13:51):
It's totally a wow. Wait, that sounds so extremely up
my alley. I'm really excited to listen to it. We
really love it when I get to recommend new things
to people I do. And so we are actually going
to do better than just play a little bit of
Sounds Like a Cult for Jamie. No, no, no, this
(14:12):
is the pod club. We're gonna call up Amanda Montell,
and we're going to ask her about the show, but
first a quick break podcast. Welcome back to the pod Club.
(14:37):
We will get back to our conversation with Jamie Loftus
in just a little bit, but right now we're going
to take a deep dive into the podcast. It sounds
like a cult with host Amanda Montal. Amanda Montal, Hello,
Welcome to the pod Club. It's truly my favorite place.
It's a nice place. I mean, it's like it's like
(14:58):
a cult here. We're trying to become more cult like.
So first I want to ask you what is some
culti language that we should be using in each episode
to attract, to attract and bring in our followers. I mean,
you can never go wrong with language like once in
a lifetime opportunity, you know, like this podcast is a
(15:21):
once in a lifetime podcast. This podcast is a once
in a lifetime podcast. And will will heal you of
all your troubles? Oh my gosh. I think if only
if only people would believe that, if only I could
say that without like snort laughing, this podcast will heal
you of all say, I'm gonna snort laugh. That's gonna
be hard, So your book Cultish recently came out, But
(15:43):
you also have a podcast. Sounds like a cult? Yes, well,
I write. I co host this podcast with my funny,
charming friend Issa. It's like a comedy cult podcast. It's
a zeitgeist cult podcast, is what it is. So every
week we pick a different fanatical group from the culture,
(16:04):
whether it's MLMs or people who are really into astrology,
or Tony Robbins, or fraternities and sororities, or the royal
family or the Bachelor, and we discuss it using lighthearted
banter but also legitimate research. We have guests, we have games,
(16:25):
and then that all leads to a discussion of Okay,
this thing sounds like a cult, but is it really
and if so, is it a live your life, a
watch your back or get out level cult? Because not
all cults are created equal, like some cults are good cults.
So we have this discussion how how bad of a
cult is it. I love what you guys do because
(16:47):
you talk about things that I never would have thought about,
like fraternities and sororities, and talk about whether or not
their occult. And I'm going to make a confession and
people are gonna mock me and I don't care. Um,
I was a tried dolt. I was a Delta Delta
Delta at the University of Pennsylvania. So your episode on
whether or not fraternities and sororities or cults really got me.
(17:10):
I'm actually going to play a clip from it. That's
amazing to me how robust the culture and language of
fraternities and sororities are. And you pick it up so
quickly like little and big, all of the everything has
a special term. It's kind of it's impressive. Yeah, and
it's so normalized. Yeah, I mean it's objectively not normal
(17:32):
to wear robes and say code words in Latin that
you don't even understand. I literally know guys who were
branded on their ass and it's not even like they
were like, oh no, I had to do this crazy thing,
like it was a part of belonging. I don't I
don't want to spoil anything, but at the end of
(17:54):
that episode, do you tell us whether or not fraternity
and sororities are a cult, and if are a good
cult or a bad cult? Should I give away the spoiler,
give it away, give it away, I give it away.
Now we determined it was definitely a cult. And there
have been so many more deaths attributed to fraternity hazing
(18:14):
than there have been attributed to the practices of sororities,
because like fraternities and sororities really emphasized like the worst
aspects of the gender binary, you know, and like one
of the worst aspects of like macho masculinityes like violence.
We make a final verdict according to our own personal
(18:37):
interpretation um involving the perspectives of many, and we really
try to dive as deep as we can. At the
end of the day, the tone is quite lighthearted. I
also love the fact that you got into cults and
became this guru of all things called because because your
dad was an accult. This is true. Yes, when my
(19:01):
dad was fourteen, he was forced by his father, who
was kind of a hippie card carrying communist, to join
this socialist utopia. At least that's what it was promised.
Sounds like sounds like a today area called Synnon and
it was this alternative drug rehabilitation center turned alternative lifestyle
(19:23):
commune where kids lived separate from their parents. Um. Everybody
had to go to school at the special Synanon School.
No one was allowed to work on the outside. At
a point, everybody had to shape their heads as a
demonstration of solidarity. Um marriages were broken up and people
were assigned new Cynanon partners. It had all the signs
(19:47):
that we now realized make a classic cult, you know.
The centerpiece of life in Cinnanon was this practice called
the Game, where every night people would be divided into
circles and four to subject their peers to vicious interpersonal criticism.
And then everybody would like jump in and start attacking you,
(20:09):
and you would just have to sit there and I
and and there was special terminology for everything. And if
someone was like calling you out in a really vicious,
unwarranted way, that was probably all projection. You had to
just take that criticism lying down, and that was called
a pull up. There was like a special euphemism or
(20:31):
buzzword or label for everything. So yeah, the language aspect
of it was always the most interesting to me, and
that's what led me to write my book Cultish. But
then there were so many aspects of cultiness that I
wasn't able to cover in the book, and that's why
I wanted to start the podcast head I usen to
you talk about cults all shreaking day. That sounds like
(20:56):
a cult. Now let's get back to our conversation with
Jamie to kick off a set man that we're calling
what's your gateway podcast? That gay podcast? What is your
go to perfect podcast that you tell someone who has
(21:19):
never listened to a podcast to listen to? If you
want them to love our world? What do you tell
them to listen? Toe like you can't go wrong with
sending people You're wrong about. So You're wrong About is
a podcast hosted by Sarah Marshall and Michael Hobbs. Basically,
one host looks into a famous pop culture event and
(21:40):
explains what was wrong or biased about the media narrative
at the time. To the other host, who knows nothing
about it. Welcome to You're Wrong About, the podcast where
we leave complicated history complicated. That's ironic that you said that,
because I was just thinking this morning as I was
listening to the Ghostbusters theme, that we are actually, in
(22:02):
a real sense Ghostbusters, because we're going around and finding
these pieces of dangerous lore and superstition and neutralizing them.
I think my first year wrong about episode I was
very um, not very, but I was like pretty late
to the party on that one. But I started by
(22:22):
listening to the Amy Fisher episode as research for something
that I was working on, and was like, wait a second,
this is like the greatest format in the world, like
because it's I don't know, like we were talking about earlier,
I guess like built in of like it's built into
the concept that of course no one is going to
(22:44):
know all these particulars about this very specific historical event.
But they do their research and they have this great rapport,
and I learned stuff in a way that doesn't feel
like I'm being like bashed over the head with a
mallet learning stuff. Yes, yeah, And that's my favorite. That's
my favorite thing when a podcast does that I'm that
(23:05):
I walk away and I know something that I'm more interesting,
that I'm funnier and more interesting at a cocktail party
that night for having listened to that podcast. But then
I don't feel preached to or bashed over the head,
because that's no fun. We listen to podcasts to have fun,
to be entertained. It should feel out of like it
feels like I like soup, so it feels like, um,
(23:26):
a cup of soup is listening to a good year,
wrong about where you're like? That was so comforting and
I feel healthier, healthier and better. Yes, that was a
weak metaphor. It was not. It was not a weak metaphor.
A great podcast should be like a cup of good soup. There.
I've been reading too many Kathy comics, is what is
clear to me based on that? Well, when I what
(23:50):
I want to what I want to close out with
um because I want to go back to the act
cast and to Kathy. Because you have the greatest theme
song in the history of podcast theme songs. Oh my gosh,
how did you come up with this incredible piece of music?
I can take very little credit for it. It is
mainly the composer, Brad Dickert. He's just like truly incredible.
(24:16):
Where we were working in a pretty tight deadline and
he was I was like, well, what do you need
from me? He's like, well, just send me some lyrics
and a few song references for what you want. So
I sent him the lyrics to the theme song, and
then the only instruction I gave him was I wanted
to start like a TV jingle and then turn into
a Lincoln Park song, and he just like executed it.
(24:39):
Flawlessly on the first try, and I'm still like, he's
just so unbelievably talented. He's great. Yeah, it's the best.
So we're gonna we are going to close out with
the act cast theme song, She Past the World nineteen six.
She's at on Dates and you Don't Lack Politics from
Mama and Irving two with Feminist Friends. She's fighting all
(25:03):
the stands it with Chocolate and heir Cathy, She's fighting
back to stressed with success. Let's call her slack Oh
Cathy ba Cathy Cathy. She's got a lot go in
all that is it for this week's pod Club, My Friends,
(25:48):
we listen to say more who weekly sounds like a cult.
The Sorority episode but also the Royal Family episode is
really great. We listened to Your Wrong About out by
the way. Fun fact, Jamie Loftus made a guest appearance
on You're Wrong About Dreams Do Come True. Her episodes
all about Ed and Lorraine Warren and you're going to
(26:10):
want to check it out. And of course, last but
not least, you should also listen to all of Jamie's shows.
They're Bechdel Cast, My Year and Mensa Lolita Podcast and
the Act Cast. We'll be back next week with so
many more recommendations, so much you can't get rid of us.
(26:32):
The Pod Club is hosted by me Jo Piazza. Our
executive producers are me and Emily Merodoff. Our producer is
Mary Do. Our associate producer is Lauren Philip. Mixing by
Emily Maronoff and Mary Do. Our theme song and additional
music were composed by Aaron Kaufman. Aaron Kaufman is also
(26:53):
our consulting producer. Special thanks to Nikki Tore and to
my husband Nick Do saying the original It's a podcast
about podcasts about podcasts. Thanks for joining the pod Club.
No matter how hard I try, my mother is never
gonna listen to my podcasts. She's not. And I know
that she probably doesn't even really know what a podcast is,
and she probably lies to people about what my job is.
And I just found out that I'm not alone. Before
we kick off today's episode, I have to play you
(00:23):
something that today's guest created. It is a song that
she's dubbed the show your Mom a podcast Challenge, and
I wish that I had created it. My mom was
afraid of the concept of a podcast. What is it
You get my computer virus? No, mom, it's radio on
demand from an unqualified person nobody's heard of. I can't
(00:46):
give podcast. I have an Android. It's true. My mom
has a five footok Android phone. It talked to me
when I was a child that I sent to the
link to my podcast, and she clicked it open up
right there, and then she listen to my little audio file.
Emma never looked back again. It's not happy you maam,
(01:09):
do listen to do a podcast? And she could listen
to the ages. It's a podcast about podcast about podcast
that came from the insane brain of the writer, comedian,
and obviously podcast host Jamie Loftus. If you don't know
(01:31):
her work already, you're going to be pretty psyched that
I introduced you to her. She's like that girl in
high school who's really funny and really smart and you
think is way cooler than you, but you're too scared
to go up to her. And then one day you
guys both missed the bus and so you're like, hey,
why don't we just go like drink of forty under
the bleachers and then you become best friends. Jamie came
(01:51):
on the scene five years ago with a podcast called
Bechtel Cast. It looks at popular movies through a feminist
lens and also makes it so that you can never
rewatch those movies without going ah. More recently, Jamie has
been focusing on shows that take little snippets of culture
and then totally blow up your understanding of them in
(02:13):
ways that you would never imagine, and most recently something
called ac cast a AC sorry ac sorry, Okay, I
(02:33):
want to talk to you about Kathy comics. I'm so
happy that Jamie agreed to come on our show and
drink that proverbial forty under the bleachers with me today.
Hi Jamie, Hi, how are you. I'm good. I am
so excited to talk to you because ac cast taught
me so much about Kathy, but more than that, it
(02:56):
taught me about being a woman in the world for
the past forty goddamn years. I'm glad. That's the most
I could possibly hope for. Well, it's one of the
things that I kept thinking, because it really is, Kathy
is this working girl who's just living and struggling, and
dating sucks and and work sometimes sucks. And what I
(03:19):
want to do is call up Sarah Jessica Parker and
asked her if she realizes that Carrie Bradshaw was really
just Kathy with better hair and better shoes, right there's
and I feel the same way about like it's so weird,
Like people really don't like seeing the Kathy within themselves
(03:41):
because every time you see like a famous fictional character
or even like a real person reject the Kathy like label,
it's because they're like Kathy and they're they're like in
this photo and they don't like it because it's the
same thing with like Liz Lemon. There's a couple of
Kathy references in The Dirty Rock to where it's like, yeah,
(04:01):
it's the whole premise of like upper class white lady
trying to have it all. Like that's what the Kathy
premise is. It's brilliant. You went back and you read
every single Kathy comic ever and you essentially do the
great epic Kathy narrative from start to finish. At the
(04:23):
end of it, did you love Kathy or did you
hate Kathy? I loved her. I loved her, and I
also felt like I understood her beyond what my like
preconceived notion of her, because she's really frustrating. It's not
like she's like this perfect aspirational person. But I really
(04:44):
I feel like by the end, I really appreciated where
she was coming from and just had like a greater
appreciation for characters who fail and like don't quite get
what they want. How did you get started in this
crazy podcast world? Because you've been doing it long before everyone.
(05:08):
Your barista, your cat had a podcast, like way back
in the olden days. Yeah, pre cat podcasts. Um So
I got started in sixteen where my friend Caitlin Durante
and I, who I just met doing comedy in Boston.
She was like, so, there's this thing called podcasts. There's
(05:29):
a million movie podcasts and they're all hosted by men.
Would you like to start uh podcast that is not
that doodcast? The questions asked if movies have women and
are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do
they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef in best start changing
(05:50):
it with the beck del Cast, And then a couple
of years ago, I started working on my own independent
series that tend to be kind of deep research and
picking random stuff that interests me or uh, just kind
of appears in my life and I make shows about them.
I want to tell our listeners about the MENSA show?
(06:12):
Who is that's more too misty? Yeah, So it wasn't
supposed to be a project. I was supposed to be
like a piece of click bait. I was writing for
(06:33):
like seventy five dollars in where I was going to
take the MENSA test and basically right about how ridiculous
I thought it was and how I don't care that
I didn't get into MENSA because they suck and their
dorks and I'm not. But then I secretly studied really
hard for the test because I was insecure and like,
(06:55):
I don't I don't know trying to prove something that
who knows what it actually was. I I need for
the test, and I passed the test, and I got in.
I did write like my goofy piece of click bait
that was just kind of like, I got in, I'm
a dork and I'm gonna destroy mental like it was
just very silly um. And then I immediately started to
receive death threats from this Facebook group and it just
(07:18):
escalated very quickly. There's just a ton of bigotry and
a lot of dark stuff going on there. So it
kind of started as a joke and then became, well,
now that I have like these people paying attention to
this group, what is it actually and trying to kind
of reverse engineer it into something more useful, And that
was sort of what the podcast was. All I can
(07:44):
see is a make America Great Again hat floating somewhere
in the crowd, attached to a petite woman's head, and
two says you know who she is already, and this
time he's right. Katie is one of the only people
in Firehouse who I am very familiar with. She of
the Firehouse community in extremely high regard, and after my
most recent piece on the group, she had commented on
(08:06):
an Instagram post of mine, saying the following, let it
be known that this comedian is a slimy fraud and
this is just the first line. Here are some select
passages from that comment, which is from February. I'm not
a fan of people throwing others under the bus to
further they're already unfruitful and destined to fail career. You
(08:29):
are the first person ever that are unmoderated group has
had to mass block because you're shady and trying to
ruin people's lives. You're probably one of the geekiest, most
unattractive people in our organization. So that's the person we're
talking about, and she's a few tables away in her
MAGA hat. You must have really good podcast recommendations, so
(08:56):
I'm dying, dying to know what you're listening to now. Yes,
it's a it's a mix. My weekly listen is always
WHO Weekly. That's my car podcast, that's my walking around podcast.
That's my unhealthy para social relationship podcast that I really love.
(09:19):
Welcome to WHO Weekly, the podcast where you learned everything
you need to know about the celebrities you don't. I'm
Bobby Finger. I'm Lindsay Wemmer and here's Audrina. This is crazy,
how all this is happening? Well, Lauren has gone. I
just started Who Weekly. I was until thank you until
about I'm it's I'm so glad to be here for
other WHO Weekly virgins, can you explain the who the
(09:43):
who universe? So I've been a hool again for about
three years now. It's just like the funniest celebrity gossip
show for people who like I feel like it's very
accessible for people who do not know anything about celebrity gossip,
which I kind have didn't, And it separates the world
of celebrity for like Who's, which are more like fame
(10:07):
chasy types or like not quite famous, definitely not a
household name but still desperately trying to remain relevant. Um.
And they only talk about the Who's the thems of
the world, Uh, like whatever you're Brad Pitts and Leo DiCaprio's,
they don't acknowledge the thems. They focused strictly on the cutthroat,
(10:29):
desperate world of the Who's. As a former gossip columnist
because that was my first job in New York City,
it reminds me of all of the people who wanted
into our gossip column so bad, which by the way,
at the time was like freaking Paris Hilton and Kim
Kardashian right, who were like I will do anything, I
will dance on the tables. They were the who's who
just wanted, they were desperate for the attention and who
(10:52):
weakly focuses on them. And they're also the hosts as
are so funny. I feel like they approached this the
topics with a lot of empathy too, or it's not
just like a beat down session, like they give people
ship when it's well deserved. I love their weekly Rita
Aura round up. She's like the clean of the who's
(11:15):
and she's always doing like five hundred sponsorships for water bottles.
And then yes, she went to Dallas for the m
Fire event, but she also did this weird wellness day
with her friends. Obviously her sister was there. Obviously at
Michael was there, but they were like doing yoga in
the backyard and instagramming it. When I saw the photos
from it, I was like, wait a second, I had
(11:36):
to like, I had to go back. I was like,
did Rita or his sister Elena have a wellness themed
birthday party. Like imagine going to a birthday party and
then being like, here, welcome. The food we're serving is
grilled vegetables, like clean grilled vegetables, and like Matcha Macha
drinks that are sponsored, and we're gonna do yoga and
like a sound bathroom. I guess now I'm saying, and
(11:59):
I'm like, these are real part is that people have,
But like, wow, what a theme? Alright, so who weekly?
And then what else? Is a near rotation whenever they
feel like dropping an episode. I really enjoy listening to
Say More with Melissa Losatta Aliva and Olivia Gatwood. We
(12:22):
didn't do any research. We are trying to obsesses same.
I'm very biased because I love them both a lot,
But there are two poets that live across the country
from each other. They've been best friends for a long time,
and I feel like they just have wonderful, funny, like
(12:45):
natural rapport. And I always feel better when I'm listening
to them talk about stuff, and I feel like it's
like such a cool, valuable thing in a conversational podcast
when people are like they're so willing to admit when
they don't know things I don't know. I just think
it's really great when people that are smart and cool
(13:08):
are confident enough to be like, yeah, I guess maybe
I don't know what I'm talking about there. Let's talk
about something else. Like I I they're the best. I'm
excited to listen. So I actually I have a podcast
recommendation for you. Okay, it is called Sounds Like a
Cult from Amanda Montee. I haven't listened yet. So Amanda
(13:30):
wrote the book Cultish and also the book Words Slot,
and she gets into all of the linguistics about cults.
And in each episode they take something that you think
is not a cult and talk about why it's definitely
a cult. And I thought about it for you because
you think about mensa a so you're like, oh, it's
just a group of smart people. It's definitely a cult.
(13:51):
It's totally a wow. Wait, that sounds so extremely up
my alley. I'm really excited to listen to it. We
really love it when I get to recommend new things
to people I do. And so we are actually going
to do better than just play a little bit of
Sounds Like a Cult for Jamie. No, no, no, this
(14:12):
is the pod club. We're gonna call up Amanda Montell,
and we're going to ask her about the show, but
first a quick break podcast. Welcome back to the pod Club.
(14:37):
We will get back to our conversation with Jamie Loftus
in just a little bit, but right now we're going
to take a deep dive into the podcast. It sounds
like a cult with host Amanda Montal. Amanda Montal, Hello,
Welcome to the pod Club. It's truly my favorite place.
It's a nice place. I mean, it's like it's like
(14:58):
a cult here. We're trying to become more cult like.
So first I want to ask you what is some
culti language that we should be using in each episode
to attract, to attract and bring in our followers. I mean,
you can never go wrong with language like once in
a lifetime opportunity, you know, like this podcast is a
(15:21):
once in a lifetime podcast. This podcast is a once
in a lifetime podcast. And will will heal you of
all your troubles? Oh my gosh. I think if only
if only people would believe that, if only I could
say that without like snort laughing, this podcast will heal
you of all say, I'm gonna snort laugh. That's gonna
be hard, So your book Cultish recently came out, But
(15:43):
you also have a podcast. Sounds like a cult? Yes, well,
I write. I co host this podcast with my funny,
charming friend Issa. It's like a comedy cult podcast. It's
a zeitgeist cult podcast, is what it is. So every
week we pick a different fanatical group from the culture,
(16:04):
whether it's MLMs or people who are really into astrology,
or Tony Robbins, or fraternities and sororities, or the royal
family or the Bachelor, and we discuss it using lighthearted
banter but also legitimate research. We have guests, we have games,
(16:25):
and then that all leads to a discussion of Okay,
this thing sounds like a cult, but is it really
and if so, is it a live your life, a
watch your back or get out level cult? Because not
all cults are created equal, like some cults are good cults.
So we have this discussion how how bad of a
cult is it. I love what you guys do because
(16:47):
you talk about things that I never would have thought about,
like fraternities and sororities, and talk about whether or not
their occult. And I'm going to make a confession and
people are gonna mock me and I don't care. Um,
I was a tried dolt. I was a Delta Delta
Delta at the University of Pennsylvania. So your episode on
whether or not fraternities and sororities or cults really got me.
(17:10):
I'm actually going to play a clip from it. That's
amazing to me how robust the culture and language of
fraternities and sororities are. And you pick it up so
quickly like little and big, all of the everything has
a special term. It's kind of it's impressive. Yeah, and
it's so normalized. Yeah, I mean it's objectively not normal
(17:32):
to wear robes and say code words in Latin that
you don't even understand. I literally know guys who were
branded on their ass and it's not even like they
were like, oh no, I had to do this crazy thing,
like it was a part of belonging. I don't I
don't want to spoil anything, but at the end of
(17:54):
that episode, do you tell us whether or not fraternity
and sororities are a cult, and if are a good
cult or a bad cult? Should I give away the spoiler,
give it away, give it away, I give it away.
Now we determined it was definitely a cult. And there
have been so many more deaths attributed to fraternity hazing
(18:14):
than there have been attributed to the practices of sororities,
because like fraternities and sororities really emphasized like the worst
aspects of the gender binary, you know, and like one
of the worst aspects of like macho masculinityes like violence.
We make a final verdict according to our own personal
(18:37):
interpretation um involving the perspectives of many, and we really
try to dive as deep as we can. At the
end of the day, the tone is quite lighthearted. I
also love the fact that you got into cults and
became this guru of all things called because because your
dad was an accult. This is true. Yes, when my
(19:01):
dad was fourteen, he was forced by his father, who
was kind of a hippie card carrying communist, to join
this socialist utopia. At least that's what it was promised.
Sounds like sounds like a today area called Synnon and
it was this alternative drug rehabilitation center turned alternative lifestyle
(19:23):
commune where kids lived separate from their parents. Um. Everybody
had to go to school at the special Synanon School.
No one was allowed to work on the outside. At
a point, everybody had to shape their heads as a
demonstration of solidarity. Um marriages were broken up and people
were assigned new Cynanon partners. It had all the signs
(19:47):
that we now realized make a classic cult, you know.
The centerpiece of life in Cinnanon was this practice called
the Game, where every night people would be divided into
circles and four to subject their peers to vicious interpersonal criticism.
And then everybody would like jump in and start attacking you,
(20:09):
and you would just have to sit there and I
and and there was special terminology for everything. And if
someone was like calling you out in a really vicious,
unwarranted way, that was probably all projection. You had to
just take that criticism lying down, and that was called
a pull up. There was like a special euphemism or
(20:31):
buzzword or label for everything. So yeah, the language aspect
of it was always the most interesting to me, and
that's what led me to write my book Cultish. But
then there were so many aspects of cultiness that I
wasn't able to cover in the book, and that's why
I wanted to start the podcast head I usen to
you talk about cults all shreaking day. That sounds like
(20:56):
a cult. Now let's get back to our conversation with
Jamie to kick off a set man that we're calling
what's your gateway podcast? That gay podcast? What is your
go to perfect podcast that you tell someone who has
(21:19):
never listened to a podcast to listen to? If you
want them to love our world? What do you tell
them to listen? Toe like you can't go wrong with
sending people You're wrong about. So You're wrong About is
a podcast hosted by Sarah Marshall and Michael Hobbs. Basically,
one host looks into a famous pop culture event and
(21:40):
explains what was wrong or biased about the media narrative
at the time. To the other host, who knows nothing
about it. Welcome to You're Wrong About, the podcast where
we leave complicated history complicated. That's ironic that you said that,
because I was just thinking this morning as I was
listening to the Ghostbusters theme, that we are actually, in
(22:02):
a real sense Ghostbusters, because we're going around and finding
these pieces of dangerous lore and superstition and neutralizing them.
I think my first year wrong about episode I was
very um, not very, but I was like pretty late
to the party on that one. But I started by
(22:22):
listening to the Amy Fisher episode as research for something
that I was working on, and was like, wait a second,
this is like the greatest format in the world, like
because it's I don't know, like we were talking about earlier,
I guess like built in of like it's built into
the concept that of course no one is going to
(22:44):
know all these particulars about this very specific historical event.
But they do their research and they have this great rapport,
and I learned stuff in a way that doesn't feel
like I'm being like bashed over the head with a
mallet learning stuff. Yes, yeah, And that's my favorite. That's
my favorite thing when a podcast does that I'm that
(23:05):
I walk away and I know something that I'm more interesting,
that I'm funnier and more interesting at a cocktail party
that night for having listened to that podcast. But then
I don't feel preached to or bashed over the head,
because that's no fun. We listen to podcasts to have fun,
to be entertained. It should feel out of like it
feels like I like soup, so it feels like, um,
(23:26):
a cup of soup is listening to a good year,
wrong about where you're like? That was so comforting and
I feel healthier, healthier and better. Yes, that was a
weak metaphor. It was not. It was not a weak metaphor.
A great podcast should be like a cup of good soup. There.
I've been reading too many Kathy comics, is what is
clear to me based on that? Well, when I what
(23:50):
I want to what I want to close out with
um because I want to go back to the act
cast and to Kathy. Because you have the greatest theme
song in the history of podcast theme songs. Oh my gosh,
how did you come up with this incredible piece of music?
I can take very little credit for it. It is
mainly the composer, Brad Dickert. He's just like truly incredible.
(24:16):
Where we were working in a pretty tight deadline and
he was I was like, well, what do you need
from me? He's like, well, just send me some lyrics
and a few song references for what you want. So
I sent him the lyrics to the theme song, and
then the only instruction I gave him was I wanted
to start like a TV jingle and then turn into
a Lincoln Park song, and he just like executed it.
(24:39):
Flawlessly on the first try, and I'm still like, he's
just so unbelievably talented. He's great. Yeah, it's the best.
So we're gonna we are going to close out with
the act cast theme song, She Past the World nineteen six.
She's at on Dates and you Don't Lack Politics from
Mama and Irving two with Feminist Friends. She's fighting all
(25:03):
the stands it with Chocolate and heir Cathy, She's fighting
back to stressed with success. Let's call her slack Oh
Cathy ba Cathy Cathy. She's got a lot go in
all that is it for this week's pod Club, My Friends,
(25:48):
we listen to say more who weekly sounds like a cult.
The Sorority episode but also the Royal Family episode is
really great. We listened to Your Wrong About out by
the way. Fun fact, Jamie Loftus made a guest appearance
on You're Wrong About Dreams Do Come True. Her episodes
all about Ed and Lorraine Warren and you're going to
(26:10):
want to check it out. And of course, last but
not least, you should also listen to all of Jamie's shows.
They're Bechdel Cast, My Year and Mensa Lolita Podcast and
the Act Cast. We'll be back next week with so
many more recommendations, so much you can't get rid of us.
(26:32):
The Pod Club is hosted by me Jo Piazza. Our
executive producers are me and Emily Merodoff. Our producer is
Mary Do. Our associate producer is Lauren Philip. Mixing by
Emily Maronoff and Mary Do. Our theme song and additional
music were composed by Aaron Kaufman. Aaron Kaufman is also
(26:53):
our consulting producer. Special thanks to Nikki Tore and to
my husband Nick Do saying the original It's a podcast
about podcasts about podcasts. Thanks for joining the pod Club.
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