May 25, 2022 • 25 mins
Welcoming Ali Wentworth to The Pod Club! The actress, comedian, and host of Go Ask Ali is an interviewer who is not afraid to ask the hard hitting questions that everyone wants to know. But now, the tables are turned and it's time for Ali to answer Jo’s questions. Whether it’s about her favorite podcast or her opinion on cancel culture, she always delivers the truth. This episode will make you laugh, teach you something new (bet you didn’t know Alan Greenspan loves jazz music and a good dirty joke), and ultimately make you feel like you are sitting there with Jo and Ali as they chat on the couch.
Ali’s Show:
Go Ask Ali
Shows Mentioned:
Fierce
Hysteria
Smartless
In Plain Sight: Lady Bird Johnson
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You know. I come from the world of television, where
if you're on a show that's doing well, you get
lots of edible bouquets, and if it's not doing well,
you know you're gonna get canceled. But in the podcast world,
I'm like, Hi, anybody, anybody out there, Here's one thing
I want to ask, and nobody can answer. What is
considered a successful podcast. No one can answer that. No
(00:24):
one knows no past podcast podcast. Hello, Hello, Hello, Welcome
back to the pod club. What you just heard was
(00:46):
me and our guest today, the actress and comedian Ali
web Work, talking shop about this crazy world of podcasts.
On Ali's show, Go Ask Ali, she brings on guests
who are experts in different aspects of modern culture, and
her interviews are a way of figuring out what's happening
in the world, and the way to do that is
just by dissecting the ship out of modern life. She
(01:08):
talks about things like aging parents, what it's like to
break up with your friends. Yeah, friend breakups real strange
thing to have to go through. I love a recent
episode that she did on how we broken up with
rom Coms? And I hope that the answer is no
She also recently talked to Michael J. Fox about optimism.
(01:29):
That episode will make you cry. I promised that it will.
I talked to Ali for way longer then you're gonna
hear on this episode. Here's the thing about Go Ask
Ali to makes you laugh, she makes you cry, she
makes you feel a little smarter. You wish she could
be your friend, and in fact, I feel like I
creepily try to make her my friend in this episode.
(02:17):
I am so excited to have Ali went with with
me on the pod Club today, mostly because I think
you are one of the most fun interviewers that I
have heard on a podcast. Oh thank you, I really do.
And I love to make these big, bold statements because
I actually mean them. I don't have the ability to
(02:38):
compliment people when I don't actually like their work. But
I think that your podcast Go Ask Ali is you
just you'll ask anyone anything, which I think makes for
a really fun interview. You just go there with your guests,
and I think that's a beautiful, really fun thing. Well,
(02:58):
thank you. I sort of there with my guests as
I would if they were sitting in my living room,
because I'm at the point in my life and I
think it's age that, like, I don't have time for
the church chat. I'm not interested in that. I'm not
interested in hearing that, you know, I want to hear
the meat. And my husband always says that my podcast
(03:18):
is like a master class where I just have people
on that I'm interested in talking to, and I think
life's too short, Like you got to ask the questions
you want to ask otherwise, you know, it's not a
podcast I would necessarily want to listen to Otherwise. I
think it's so interesting too. You know, you're married to
George Stephanopolis, incredible journalist, but he's on network television. He's
(03:41):
on Good Morning America, and I feel like he has
to ask the questions, the very serious questions, the network
television questions. And I think you actually have the more
fun job because you get to ask the questions that
you probably couldn't ask on network television. I think that's true.
I also think that early on in our marriage, when
we lived in Washington, d See, you know, we would
(04:02):
go to these dinner parties and he would be seated
next to some big muck a muck, and I always
got seated next to Alan Greenspan, and I found that
Alan Greenspan doesn't want to talk about, you know, the
deficit with it, Like he doesn't want to talk about
fiscal responsibility with me. Nor am I going to ask
him how the right way to bounce a checkbook online is?
(04:24):
And I realized we're just human beings. And I started
talking to him about jazz. He loves jazz and dirty jokes,
and then we ended up having a great time. And
my feeling was, yeah, let's just let's cut through the bullshit,
you know what I mean? Like yes, but also you know,
I remember once I was seated next to head of
the CIA, and you know, everybody was sort of polite,
(04:47):
chit chat, and I was like, are we going to war?
Like what is going on? So for me, it's like, well,
why isn't everybody asking this question? It's the question we
all want to know, you know, why is it so taboo?
And so I sort of I guess I'm like that
with my friends too, you know what I mean, Like
if somebody's feeling vulnerable, I'm like, you're gonna leave your husband,
(05:10):
aren't you? Yes? As opposed to like are you just
having a bad day? You know? Do you want to
go for a walk? I just I cut to it. Yeah. Well,
and I think that if it were acceptable, another great
name for your show instead of go ask Ali could
be cut through the bullshit with Ali with because that's
what you're doing. It does feel like a conversation between
(05:31):
two friends sitting on a couch, like hanging out, having
a drink, having some chocolate, having French fries, having a
good time. But you know, sometimes like I just had
um this billionaire Mike novograts on to talk about cryptocurrency,
I'm also not afraid to go I don't know anything
about this. Talk to me like I'm a toddler. And
(05:52):
I think it's very important too. If you don't know,
ask the questions because you don't know. Don't ask the
questions because you know, somebody ease come up with a
bunch of questions for you to ask. Totally. And I
really loved your episode with Amy Schumer talking about what
the heck is canceled culture? How did we get here?
What is happening? Because I think we all have that question,
(06:15):
We're all curious about it, but we don't really say
it out loud. Well, I think, especially in comedy. You
know a lot of my friends who are comedians. I'm like, God,
aren't you afraid of saying the wrong thing? I mean,
obviously doing the wrong thing is a little different. But
you know, even if in our dining room table when
we're having dinner just me, my kids, and my husband,
(06:37):
I say stuff all the time, and my daughter's like, Mom,
you can't say that. You're gonna get canceled for that.
And I'm like, well, are you going to tell on
me that I said this at dinner? But everybody is
a little afraid of that. And I actually interviewed somebody
who and I won't say who it is, I'll protect
that part of it, but who had all kinds of
(06:58):
lawyers involved din Like, never in my experience of podcasting
is anyone even cared enough to, you know, get legal involved.
But they were really worried about if they said this,
is it misconstrued? Could they get canceled? And you know,
we had to send it let them hear it, which
I've never done. No one's asked to hear it beforehand,
(07:20):
you know, So it's you know, people are really nervous
about that. Oh yeah, I think I could be canceled tomorrow.
I mean I say that all the time every Almost
every time I finished an interview, I'd say to my
husband and we're like, well, I could get canceled. Let's
think of something else for me to do. What else
am I good at? And he's like, this is really it,
this is this is the only thing that you're good at.
So he's like, work hard to make the people like you.
(07:41):
I want to play a little bit of that episode
with Amy Schumer about cancel culture so our audience can
just hear a little bit of it. Aside from just
getting canceled. It's like, how can I be helpful? You know?
You know, and as somebody who's like trying to be
a good ally and advocate and whatever, I know I'm
(08:03):
going to funk up. So I'm just like, just tell
me when I sunk up. I'm gonna do my best
and try and be authentic, but you know, just just
tell me when I if I say something wrong. Occasionally
somebody will say something that I go, yeah, you're absolutely right.
I shouldn't have used that pronoun or that joke is
actually you know inflammatory. I get it, thank you. Yeah.
(08:26):
I'm trying to educate myself to be helpful in that way,
and I understand the defensive reaction to want to be like, no,
that's not what I meant, or here's why I'm not
racist or why you know, but I have like learned
my lesson enough times and it's like, actually, usually better
(08:47):
to just listen because there's probably something in what. You know,
it's like, what are you fighting for? Like any comic
who's like, I missed the days we could you could
slap a woman in public? You know, it's like are
you of this for? Do you have a favorite episode
of Go ask Allie? You know, they're all so different,
(09:08):
you know, the guests are so different. Like there Sometimes
I'll finish a podcast and I'll think, oh god, I
was so boring. But then I think, well, you know,
we were talking about health concerns when you're middle I mean,
there's some things that are just serious. Or I just
did a podcast about online hate and how we stop it,
and you know, talking about big tech companies and you know, terrorism,
(09:30):
and so there's you know, you can't really be quote
unquote entertaining, and as an entertainer first and foremost, you know,
I sort of judge on is that entertaining wasn't a
fun podcast. So we just did one on menopause. And
you know that was fun because all the podcasts you know,
or or things I've read about menopause, you know, they've
(09:53):
been and I'm not trying to make a joke very dry,
and so I was like, you know, let's let's have
some fun with it, you know what I mean, Like
menopause was always like a dirty word in my house,
you know, growing up, like masturbation. And so I was like,
all right, let's talk about menopause. Let's say it, drive vagina,
say it, you know. So it was a lot more fun,
(10:15):
and it was with two other women, so you know,
we got to have fun with it in a way
that in you know, other podcasts I've listened to that
they took it very seriously. So I tried to, you know,
make it fun. So the guests are you know, you
never know, especially if you don't know them, meaning like
you knew I could listen to your podcast, I've read
(10:35):
your articles, but somebody you don't know at all. It's
you know, it's a little nerve wracking because you don't
know are they going to get the joke if you're funny,
or are they gonna be very very serious or you know,
this incredible guy named I'm in Ahmed who I did
the how do we stop Online hate? And everything. I
didn't know anything about him and except you know, I've
(10:59):
read a lot of articles about, you know, his nonprofit
trying to stop online hate and have the big tech
companies regulated blah blah blah. And so he came on
and he was British, which of course is already like,
oh my god, yes, I could just listen to you talk.
So he was British, but also he had such a
great sense of humor. He was like, had this big
smile and he was funny. And I wouldn't have assumed
(11:22):
that my guest on that subject was going to be
that way. So it's it's always like a fun surprise. Well,
it's like you're never going to know that Alan Greenspan
likes dirty jokes until you tell Alan Greenspan a dirty joke,
So yes, and then you will see that there is
a deep love, deep love, deep love there exactly. So
if you were going to recommend a podcast to someone
(11:43):
like my mother, who has never listened to any of
my podcasts, she doesn't know, say what I do for
a living, same, yeah, like as a gateway podcast, kind
of what would you tell her to listen too. Well,
I don't know your mom, so I don't know her interests.
(12:05):
My mom Muffy is she? No? Wait, wait a second,
your mom's name is really Muffy. Yes it is. That's amazing.
Oh I'm that person. That is so good. I can't
even get over that. All right, tell me what Muffy
should listen to. Well, Muffy, you know she's into politics.
You know, I grew up in d C. She was
Social Secretary of the Reagan White House, so she's got
(12:29):
her finger on the political pulse. So the daily would
be her thing. She would love Like Lady Bird Johnson podcast,
Ladybird recorded her entire experience in the White House, hours
and hours of tape that almost no one has ever heard.
(12:49):
And those tapes they end up rewriting history. This is
in plain sight this season. I'm looking at the untold
story of Ladybird Johnson, a Kenny political operator, an activist,
one of the most influential members of the Johnson administration,
even if we never saw it or I haven't dealt
(13:12):
into them. But any kind of you know, history of
Reagan or history of Roosevelt, all those kind of historic podcasts.
She would be really into Jackie oh stuff. You know,
I have a podcast. She's never listened. She says, it's
really hard to find it. I've put it on her phone.
I said, all you do is just click it. Nope,
(13:32):
can't find it. Doesn't understand it. But I think the
podcast for my mother's generation is like, it's still how
she goes with the iPhone. You know, she she doesn't
push any buttons. She yells at it and then I
have to stick. Now you have styled, you have to
So the podcast thing is I think what we're going
to be like with the metaverse, like it's just a
(13:55):
whole crazy thing that we don't understand. Yeah, no, no,
no no. Once the metaverse comes around, I'm just gonna
retreat somewhere and die in a cabin upstate. For me,
it's going to be Yellow Jackets essentially, but without the
plane crash. Just going to be in the wilderness. Salon cannibalism. Cannibalism.
That's all right, welcome listen. Maybe we should get a
(14:17):
group together and we can make a podcast from there.
We'll do podcasting cannibal podcasting from way upstate. So you
(14:55):
are a human being in the world with a podcast
your husband is a journalist. Podcasts do you listen to
just for fun, like when you just want to enjoy yourself?
I listen to SmartLess MM. I also listen to smart List.
But we have not talked a lot about Smartness on
this show yet, mostly because I want to give people
(15:15):
who are not celebrities a little bit more airtime. But
I freaking love that show. I mean, celebrity aside. It
is the chemistry of these guys truly, just the friendship
chemistry stuff that I like. And I don't even care
who the guest is. I like like the chit chat
before the guest more than anything, their rapport with each other.
(15:36):
They feel like such good friends. That chemistry is so good.
And to talk to the title of the show, SmartLess.
They don't make you feel like they know more than
you or God, not at all. They just give each
other shit about how stupid they I know, which which
I find very, very enjoyable, and I like it the most.
(15:58):
I think when they have people on the show who
are not famous, I think that they're you know, famous people.
Interviews are fun because they're all friends and they have
stories that you've never heard before. But I really liked
one of the early episodes with Neil Degrass Tyson because
he just schools them in everything about the universe and
(16:19):
they're like, whoa, we bow down to you man. So like,
I think those episodes are the most fun. But even
when they have like a Stacy Abrams or I think
they had Kamala on they did have Kamala. Yeah. What's
great is that when one of them starts to like
try to sound really smart and like use a big
word or something, the other two kind of pounds and go, okay, well,
(16:43):
you know, sorry Kamala, but uh well doesn't know what
he's talking about. You know. They do kind of keep
each other and check in a fun way. Because I
think you're right. It's it's really not the celebrity stuff
at all, which is why I think that there is
lots of room for a female version of it. Oh
I'm here for that. If anyone's listening and they want
(17:05):
to do like a female version of Smart List with me,
I am all over it because there should be. There
should be because I think when women get together and
have great chemistry, it's so I love it. And I
could listen to them talk about a banana bread recipe,
you know, Yes, I can listen to them talk about banana, bread, masturbation, menopause,
(17:25):
all of the ms. Yes, absolutely, how to clean, how
to clean my counter, how to get how to get
hair out of my train? Like that's I can listen
to them do everything. Yes, But the SmartLess interview with
Kamala it was the last interview right before she was
chosen as Joe Biden's running mate. So I want to
play us just a little bit. Yeah. Absolutely. I met
(17:48):
you one time a while ago. You're so wonderful to
have like a special intimate evening at some place. I
don't know where. It was really special for you. I guess, yeah,
you don't even remember where it was. Well, it was
like hidden locations. You were so eloquent and and so
well spoken and so intelligent. It was just incredible to
hear you speak. And I walked up to you afterwards
(18:09):
and I had your like, so if anybody has any ideas,
of course, my ideas are horrible. And I walked up
to you and your assistant was like, I'm sorry, miss
Senator Harrison has she has somewhere to be right now,
so if you can make it quick, I go. No, no, no,
I'm busier. I'm gonna leave first. I have to go first.
I'm much busier than she is. As a matter of fact,
I'm gonna end this conversation and leave first. I have
to go. Yeah. Yeah, you don't want to be the
(18:30):
last one in the room ever. Ever, what was your idea, Sean?
It sounds like it was great. It was so bad,
I can it's embarrassed only blue Eminem's well, Red, White,
and Blue. But I'm also a I dip my toe
into lots of different podcasts. Sometimes I give them like
(18:50):
ten minutes and I'm like I'm out, I'm out or uma. Yeah,
I have a lot of friends who are in the
camp of I have to commit to the whole episode.
I can't not finish an episode. I don't believe in
that if you are not enjoying yourself, you turn off
that podcast. Because life is too short to listen to
bad podcasts. Yeah, I'm the same way with television. I'm
(19:13):
the same way with parties. I have no qualms walking
into a party in ten minutes later going like, all right,
I'm out. Food doesn't look good, people are dull, music
is bad. So I do a little bit of that
with podcasts, especially because there are so many that I'll
hear about one and I'll go all right, I'll listen,
(19:34):
you know, and then I'm done, or I'll listen for
a season and then I'm like, I think I got
the most out of it. I don't like podcasts about crime,
true crime, which I know those are the most popular ones.
I'm much more visual, So if you're gonna do crime,
I want to see the re enactment, you know, the
knife with the blood on it. I need to see
(19:55):
all that. So that's not really not my thing. And
you know, there's The Daily. There's lots of news podcasts,
but I sort of read all that stuff in the morning,
so I don't need to hear it later on. I
always think it's funny when, um, somebody listens to a
podcast like The Daily, like weeks later and then they
go on like their Insta story and they're like, you, guys,
(20:19):
I just want to let you know we're like in
big trouble with Ukraine, and I'm like, what, Hi, yeah,
six weeks ago, guys. So that always makes an evergreen
podcast is not one of those that you can go
back and ben exactly. I had a friend who just
discovered the bad art friend saga on the daily. Like
six months later, she's like, did you hear this? And
(20:40):
I'm like, the world heard it last summer. It's over.
It's over now. Yeah, welcome. I do listen to my
friend Alyssa Master Monica's hysteria. Yes, I do like women
doing their thing. I really do. Alyssa she's the former
White House Deputy Chief of Staff and her host, Aaron Ryan,
(21:01):
is a political commentator and comedy writer, And they just
have such great chemistry because they're both really really smart,
brilliant women, but they talk to you like a normal person.
They're so down to earth and that you can actually
enjoy them making you feel smarter. Absolutely, they run the gamut.
They'll talk kind of current events, you know. But Alyssa
(21:24):
is so she's like everybody's girlfriend. So when you listen
to the podcast, she's like, girl wrote versus Wade is
about to be overturned. Girl, grab your ter. You know.
She's just has a way of talking that is so
informative and but but funny. You know, she'll sideline into
(21:45):
her cat and you know, you just you get the
whole picture and it's all like warm and fuzzy and
you want her to be your best friend on all
that good stuff. Oh yeah, I know so much about
Alyssa's cat now, just from listening to the show and
from following her on Instagram. Yeah, oh yes. And you know,
then they'll have like a fun guest. They'll have like
one of the actors from Succession or something with that
(22:07):
they'll interview. Yes, yes, they just had j Smith Cameron
on the show, who plays Jerry. By the way, I'm
fully team Jerry. Jerry is my favorite Jerry to run
that company. Yeah, I want to play a little bit
of the Hysteria episode with j Smith Cameron so our
audience can get it taste for it. What iconic role
(22:31):
that was written for a man? Do you think you
could knock out of the park? Oh, snap, stage or screen? Well,
you know, everyone wants to do Hamlet and I'm a
little long with tooth for that. That's such almost like
a sacred cow, like no one no one can really
check all the boxes with that party, seems in my experience,
it's so great, it's so rich, and it's really um
(22:53):
kind of gender fluid kind of part. A lot of
women have played that part and if it was written today,
he probably be non binary. I think I grew up
being a theater person. Really. I would occasionally be in
an indie film or something, but I did. All the
theater and television has in the meantime exploded open into
(23:13):
this cornucopia of choices and people being able to write
about all kinds of things for all kinds of audiences.
And it's not as dumb down, like the fact that
Succession is such a hit and it's such a smart
kind of thought e thing like you have to pay attention.
And even I who have read the scripts, if I
watch something again, I always catch something else between, say
(23:34):
Tom and Ship or something that's not in my world
that I didn't wasn't there when they shot it, And
I'm like, wow, there's so much more than what was
just on the page. I still love that your mom's
name is. I just looked around Muffy Cabin. That's my mom. Yeah,
that's been so fun. I loved it, Ali, we had
fun jo, I loved it about hit And that's all
(24:00):
we got today for the pod Club. Be sure to
listen to Ali's podcast. Go ask Ali. You might even
see me on her guest list. I was just on
talking about the power of influencers in our life. It
is good company over there. She gets the good people
she does, and there's just a ton of great stuff
to listen to. I want to remind you that Ali
(24:21):
recommended in Plain Sight, Lady Bird Johnson and SmartLess, which
we've talked about before. But it is a very good
show and it's one of my go toos, So go
listen to it. They don't need me to tell you
to listen to it because they have like a gazillion listeners.
But it's still SmartLess, It's very good. Also a great
(24:42):
one Hysteria. Yeah, get on that train. Okay, guys, go listen,
enjoy until next time. The pod Club is hosted by
me Joe Pianza. Our executive producers are Me Again and
(25:06):
Emily marinof our producers are Mary Do and Darby Masters.
Our associate producer is Lauren Philip. Our theme and additional
music was composed by Aaron Kaufman. Aaron Kaufman is also
our consulting producer and special thanks to Nikki Etre he
was just a wonderful human being who I like to
think at the end of episodes,
You know. I come from the world of television, where
if you're on a show that's doing well, you get
lots of edible bouquets, and if it's not doing well,
you know you're gonna get canceled. But in the podcast world,
I'm like, Hi, anybody, anybody out there, Here's one thing
I want to ask, and nobody can answer. What is
considered a successful podcast. No one can answer that. No
(00:24):
one knows no past podcast podcast. Hello, Hello, Hello, Welcome
back to the pod club. What you just heard was
(00:46):
me and our guest today, the actress and comedian Ali
web Work, talking shop about this crazy world of podcasts.
On Ali's show, Go Ask Ali, she brings on guests
who are experts in different aspects of modern culture, and
her interviews are a way of figuring out what's happening
in the world, and the way to do that is
just by dissecting the ship out of modern life. She
(01:08):
talks about things like aging parents, what it's like to
break up with your friends. Yeah, friend breakups real strange
thing to have to go through. I love a recent
episode that she did on how we broken up with
rom Coms? And I hope that the answer is no
She also recently talked to Michael J. Fox about optimism.
(01:29):
That episode will make you cry. I promised that it will.
I talked to Ali for way longer then you're gonna
hear on this episode. Here's the thing about Go Ask
Ali to makes you laugh, she makes you cry, she
makes you feel a little smarter. You wish she could
be your friend, and in fact, I feel like I
creepily try to make her my friend in this episode.
(02:17):
I am so excited to have Ali went with with
me on the pod Club today, mostly because I think
you are one of the most fun interviewers that I
have heard on a podcast. Oh thank you, I really do.
And I love to make these big, bold statements because
I actually mean them. I don't have the ability to
(02:38):
compliment people when I don't actually like their work. But
I think that your podcast Go Ask Ali is you
just you'll ask anyone anything, which I think makes for
a really fun interview. You just go there with your guests,
and I think that's a beautiful, really fun thing. Well,
(02:58):
thank you. I sort of there with my guests as
I would if they were sitting in my living room,
because I'm at the point in my life and I
think it's age that, like, I don't have time for
the church chat. I'm not interested in that. I'm not
interested in hearing that, you know, I want to hear
the meat. And my husband always says that my podcast
(03:18):
is like a master class where I just have people
on that I'm interested in talking to, and I think
life's too short, Like you got to ask the questions
you want to ask otherwise, you know, it's not a
podcast I would necessarily want to listen to Otherwise. I
think it's so interesting too. You know, you're married to
George Stephanopolis, incredible journalist, but he's on network television. He's
(03:41):
on Good Morning America, and I feel like he has
to ask the questions, the very serious questions, the network
television questions. And I think you actually have the more
fun job because you get to ask the questions that
you probably couldn't ask on network television. I think that's true.
I also think that early on in our marriage, when
we lived in Washington, d See, you know, we would
(04:02):
go to these dinner parties and he would be seated
next to some big muck a muck, and I always
got seated next to Alan Greenspan, and I found that
Alan Greenspan doesn't want to talk about, you know, the
deficit with it, Like he doesn't want to talk about
fiscal responsibility with me. Nor am I going to ask
him how the right way to bounce a checkbook online is?
(04:24):
And I realized we're just human beings. And I started
talking to him about jazz. He loves jazz and dirty jokes,
and then we ended up having a great time. And
my feeling was, yeah, let's just let's cut through the bullshit,
you know what I mean? Like yes, but also you know,
I remember once I was seated next to head of
the CIA, and you know, everybody was sort of polite,
(04:47):
chit chat, and I was like, are we going to war?
Like what is going on? So for me, it's like, well,
why isn't everybody asking this question? It's the question we
all want to know, you know, why is it so taboo?
And so I sort of I guess I'm like that
with my friends too, you know what I mean, Like
if somebody's feeling vulnerable, I'm like, you're gonna leave your husband,
(05:10):
aren't you? Yes? As opposed to like are you just
having a bad day? You know? Do you want to
go for a walk? I just I cut to it. Yeah. Well,
and I think that if it were acceptable, another great
name for your show instead of go ask Ali could
be cut through the bullshit with Ali with because that's
what you're doing. It does feel like a conversation between
(05:31):
two friends sitting on a couch, like hanging out, having
a drink, having some chocolate, having French fries, having a
good time. But you know, sometimes like I just had
um this billionaire Mike novograts on to talk about cryptocurrency,
I'm also not afraid to go I don't know anything
about this. Talk to me like I'm a toddler. And
(05:52):
I think it's very important too. If you don't know,
ask the questions because you don't know. Don't ask the
questions because you know, somebody ease come up with a
bunch of questions for you to ask. Totally. And I
really loved your episode with Amy Schumer talking about what
the heck is canceled culture? How did we get here?
What is happening? Because I think we all have that question,
(06:15):
We're all curious about it, but we don't really say
it out loud. Well, I think, especially in comedy. You
know a lot of my friends who are comedians. I'm like, God,
aren't you afraid of saying the wrong thing? I mean,
obviously doing the wrong thing is a little different. But
you know, even if in our dining room table when
we're having dinner just me, my kids, and my husband,
(06:37):
I say stuff all the time, and my daughter's like, Mom,
you can't say that. You're gonna get canceled for that.
And I'm like, well, are you going to tell on
me that I said this at dinner? But everybody is
a little afraid of that. And I actually interviewed somebody
who and I won't say who it is, I'll protect
that part of it, but who had all kinds of
(06:58):
lawyers involved din Like, never in my experience of podcasting
is anyone even cared enough to, you know, get legal involved.
But they were really worried about if they said this,
is it misconstrued? Could they get canceled? And you know,
we had to send it let them hear it, which
I've never done. No one's asked to hear it beforehand,
(07:20):
you know, So it's you know, people are really nervous
about that. Oh yeah, I think I could be canceled tomorrow.
I mean I say that all the time every Almost
every time I finished an interview, I'd say to my
husband and we're like, well, I could get canceled. Let's
think of something else for me to do. What else
am I good at? And he's like, this is really it,
this is this is the only thing that you're good at.
So he's like, work hard to make the people like you.
(07:41):
I want to play a little bit of that episode
with Amy Schumer about cancel culture so our audience can
just hear a little bit of it. Aside from just
getting canceled. It's like, how can I be helpful? You know?
You know, and as somebody who's like trying to be
a good ally and advocate and whatever, I know I'm
(08:03):
going to funk up. So I'm just like, just tell
me when I sunk up. I'm gonna do my best
and try and be authentic, but you know, just just
tell me when I if I say something wrong. Occasionally
somebody will say something that I go, yeah, you're absolutely right.
I shouldn't have used that pronoun or that joke is
actually you know inflammatory. I get it, thank you. Yeah.
(08:26):
I'm trying to educate myself to be helpful in that way,
and I understand the defensive reaction to want to be like, no,
that's not what I meant, or here's why I'm not
racist or why you know, but I have like learned
my lesson enough times and it's like, actually, usually better
(08:47):
to just listen because there's probably something in what. You know,
it's like, what are you fighting for? Like any comic
who's like, I missed the days we could you could
slap a woman in public? You know, it's like are
you of this for? Do you have a favorite episode
of Go ask Allie? You know, they're all so different,
(09:08):
you know, the guests are so different. Like there Sometimes
I'll finish a podcast and I'll think, oh god, I
was so boring. But then I think, well, you know,
we were talking about health concerns when you're middle I mean,
there's some things that are just serious. Or I just
did a podcast about online hate and how we stop it,
and you know, talking about big tech companies and you know, terrorism,
(09:30):
and so there's you know, you can't really be quote
unquote entertaining, and as an entertainer first and foremost, you know,
I sort of judge on is that entertaining wasn't a
fun podcast. So we just did one on menopause. And
you know that was fun because all the podcasts you know,
or or things I've read about menopause, you know, they've
(09:53):
been and I'm not trying to make a joke very dry,
and so I was like, you know, let's let's have
some fun with it, you know what I mean, Like
menopause was always like a dirty word in my house,
you know, growing up, like masturbation. And so I was like,
all right, let's talk about menopause. Let's say it, drive vagina,
say it, you know. So it was a lot more fun,
(10:15):
and it was with two other women, so you know,
we got to have fun with it in a way
that in you know, other podcasts I've listened to that
they took it very seriously. So I tried to, you know,
make it fun. So the guests are you know, you
never know, especially if you don't know them, meaning like
you knew I could listen to your podcast, I've read
(10:35):
your articles, but somebody you don't know at all. It's
you know, it's a little nerve wracking because you don't
know are they going to get the joke if you're funny,
or are they gonna be very very serious or you know,
this incredible guy named I'm in Ahmed who I did
the how do we stop Online hate? And everything. I
didn't know anything about him and except you know, I've
(10:59):
read a lot of articles about, you know, his nonprofit
trying to stop online hate and have the big tech
companies regulated blah blah blah. And so he came on
and he was British, which of course is already like,
oh my god, yes, I could just listen to you talk.
So he was British, but also he had such a
great sense of humor. He was like, had this big
smile and he was funny. And I wouldn't have assumed
(11:22):
that my guest on that subject was going to be
that way. So it's it's always like a fun surprise. Well,
it's like you're never going to know that Alan Greenspan
likes dirty jokes until you tell Alan Greenspan a dirty joke,
So yes, and then you will see that there is
a deep love, deep love, deep love there exactly. So
if you were going to recommend a podcast to someone
(11:43):
like my mother, who has never listened to any of
my podcasts, she doesn't know, say what I do for
a living, same, yeah, like as a gateway podcast, kind
of what would you tell her to listen too. Well,
I don't know your mom, so I don't know her interests.
(12:05):
My mom Muffy is she? No? Wait, wait a second,
your mom's name is really Muffy. Yes it is. That's amazing.
Oh I'm that person. That is so good. I can't
even get over that. All right, tell me what Muffy
should listen to. Well, Muffy, you know she's into politics.
You know, I grew up in d C. She was
Social Secretary of the Reagan White House, so she's got
(12:29):
her finger on the political pulse. So the daily would
be her thing. She would love Like Lady Bird Johnson podcast,
Ladybird recorded her entire experience in the White House, hours
and hours of tape that almost no one has ever heard.
(12:49):
And those tapes they end up rewriting history. This is
in plain sight this season. I'm looking at the untold
story of Ladybird Johnson, a Kenny political operator, an activist,
one of the most influential members of the Johnson administration,
even if we never saw it or I haven't dealt
(13:12):
into them. But any kind of you know, history of
Reagan or history of Roosevelt, all those kind of historic podcasts.
She would be really into Jackie oh stuff. You know,
I have a podcast. She's never listened. She says, it's
really hard to find it. I've put it on her phone.
I said, all you do is just click it. Nope,
(13:32):
can't find it. Doesn't understand it. But I think the
podcast for my mother's generation is like, it's still how
she goes with the iPhone. You know, she she doesn't
push any buttons. She yells at it and then I
have to stick. Now you have styled, you have to
So the podcast thing is I think what we're going
to be like with the metaverse, like it's just a
(13:55):
whole crazy thing that we don't understand. Yeah, no, no,
no no. Once the metaverse comes around, I'm just gonna
retreat somewhere and die in a cabin upstate. For me,
it's going to be Yellow Jackets essentially, but without the
plane crash. Just going to be in the wilderness. Salon cannibalism. Cannibalism.
That's all right, welcome listen. Maybe we should get a
(14:17):
group together and we can make a podcast from there.
We'll do podcasting cannibal podcasting from way upstate. So you
(14:55):
are a human being in the world with a podcast
your husband is a journalist. Podcasts do you listen to
just for fun, like when you just want to enjoy yourself?
I listen to SmartLess MM. I also listen to smart List.
But we have not talked a lot about Smartness on
this show yet, mostly because I want to give people
(15:15):
who are not celebrities a little bit more airtime. But
I freaking love that show. I mean, celebrity aside. It
is the chemistry of these guys truly, just the friendship
chemistry stuff that I like. And I don't even care
who the guest is. I like like the chit chat
before the guest more than anything, their rapport with each other.
(15:36):
They feel like such good friends. That chemistry is so good.
And to talk to the title of the show, SmartLess.
They don't make you feel like they know more than
you or God, not at all. They just give each
other shit about how stupid they I know, which which
I find very, very enjoyable, and I like it the most.
(15:58):
I think when they have people on the show who
are not famous, I think that they're you know, famous people.
Interviews are fun because they're all friends and they have
stories that you've never heard before. But I really liked
one of the early episodes with Neil Degrass Tyson because
he just schools them in everything about the universe and
(16:19):
they're like, whoa, we bow down to you man. So like,
I think those episodes are the most fun. But even
when they have like a Stacy Abrams or I think
they had Kamala on they did have Kamala. Yeah. What's
great is that when one of them starts to like
try to sound really smart and like use a big
word or something, the other two kind of pounds and go, okay, well,
(16:43):
you know, sorry Kamala, but uh well doesn't know what
he's talking about. You know. They do kind of keep
each other and check in a fun way. Because I
think you're right. It's it's really not the celebrity stuff
at all, which is why I think that there is
lots of room for a female version of it. Oh
I'm here for that. If anyone's listening and they want
(17:05):
to do like a female version of Smart List with me,
I am all over it because there should be. There
should be because I think when women get together and
have great chemistry, it's so I love it. And I
could listen to them talk about a banana bread recipe,
you know, Yes, I can listen to them talk about banana, bread, masturbation, menopause,
(17:25):
all of the ms. Yes, absolutely, how to clean, how
to clean my counter, how to get how to get
hair out of my train? Like that's I can listen
to them do everything. Yes, But the SmartLess interview with
Kamala it was the last interview right before she was
chosen as Joe Biden's running mate. So I want to
play us just a little bit. Yeah. Absolutely. I met
(17:48):
you one time a while ago. You're so wonderful to
have like a special intimate evening at some place. I
don't know where. It was really special for you. I guess, yeah,
you don't even remember where it was. Well, it was
like hidden locations. You were so eloquent and and so
well spoken and so intelligent. It was just incredible to
hear you speak. And I walked up to you afterwards
(18:09):
and I had your like, so if anybody has any ideas,
of course, my ideas are horrible. And I walked up
to you and your assistant was like, I'm sorry, miss
Senator Harrison has she has somewhere to be right now,
so if you can make it quick, I go. No, no, no,
I'm busier. I'm gonna leave first. I have to go first.
I'm much busier than she is. As a matter of fact,
I'm gonna end this conversation and leave first. I have
to go. Yeah. Yeah, you don't want to be the
(18:30):
last one in the room ever. Ever, what was your idea, Sean?
It sounds like it was great. It was so bad,
I can it's embarrassed only blue Eminem's well, Red, White,
and Blue. But I'm also a I dip my toe
into lots of different podcasts. Sometimes I give them like
(18:50):
ten minutes and I'm like I'm out, I'm out or uma. Yeah,
I have a lot of friends who are in the
camp of I have to commit to the whole episode.
I can't not finish an episode. I don't believe in
that if you are not enjoying yourself, you turn off
that podcast. Because life is too short to listen to
bad podcasts. Yeah, I'm the same way with television. I'm
(19:13):
the same way with parties. I have no qualms walking
into a party in ten minutes later going like, all right,
I'm out. Food doesn't look good, people are dull, music
is bad. So I do a little bit of that
with podcasts, especially because there are so many that I'll
hear about one and I'll go all right, I'll listen,
(19:34):
you know, and then I'm done, or I'll listen for
a season and then I'm like, I think I got
the most out of it. I don't like podcasts about crime,
true crime, which I know those are the most popular ones.
I'm much more visual, So if you're gonna do crime,
I want to see the re enactment, you know, the
knife with the blood on it. I need to see
(19:55):
all that. So that's not really not my thing. And
you know, there's The Daily. There's lots of news podcasts,
but I sort of read all that stuff in the morning,
so I don't need to hear it later on. I
always think it's funny when, um, somebody listens to a
podcast like The Daily, like weeks later and then they
go on like their Insta story and they're like, you, guys,
(20:19):
I just want to let you know we're like in
big trouble with Ukraine, and I'm like, what, Hi, yeah,
six weeks ago, guys. So that always makes an evergreen
podcast is not one of those that you can go
back and ben exactly. I had a friend who just
discovered the bad art friend saga on the daily. Like
six months later, she's like, did you hear this? And
(20:40):
I'm like, the world heard it last summer. It's over.
It's over now. Yeah, welcome. I do listen to my
friend Alyssa Master Monica's hysteria. Yes, I do like women
doing their thing. I really do. Alyssa she's the former
White House Deputy Chief of Staff and her host, Aaron Ryan,
(21:01):
is a political commentator and comedy writer, And they just
have such great chemistry because they're both really really smart,
brilliant women, but they talk to you like a normal person.
They're so down to earth and that you can actually
enjoy them making you feel smarter. Absolutely, they run the gamut.
They'll talk kind of current events, you know. But Alyssa
(21:24):
is so she's like everybody's girlfriend. So when you listen
to the podcast, she's like, girl wrote versus Wade is
about to be overturned. Girl, grab your ter. You know.
She's just has a way of talking that is so
informative and but but funny. You know, she'll sideline into
(21:45):
her cat and you know, you just you get the
whole picture and it's all like warm and fuzzy and
you want her to be your best friend on all
that good stuff. Oh yeah, I know so much about
Alyssa's cat now, just from listening to the show and
from following her on Instagram. Yeah, oh yes. And you know,
then they'll have like a fun guest. They'll have like
one of the actors from Succession or something with that
(22:07):
they'll interview. Yes, yes, they just had j Smith Cameron
on the show, who plays Jerry. By the way, I'm
fully team Jerry. Jerry is my favorite Jerry to run
that company. Yeah, I want to play a little bit
of the Hysteria episode with j Smith Cameron so our
audience can get it taste for it. What iconic role
(22:31):
that was written for a man? Do you think you
could knock out of the park? Oh, snap, stage or screen? Well,
you know, everyone wants to do Hamlet and I'm a
little long with tooth for that. That's such almost like
a sacred cow, like no one no one can really
check all the boxes with that party, seems in my experience,
it's so great, it's so rich, and it's really um
(22:53):
kind of gender fluid kind of part. A lot of
women have played that part and if it was written today,
he probably be non binary. I think I grew up
being a theater person. Really. I would occasionally be in
an indie film or something, but I did. All the
theater and television has in the meantime exploded open into
(23:13):
this cornucopia of choices and people being able to write
about all kinds of things for all kinds of audiences.
And it's not as dumb down, like the fact that
Succession is such a hit and it's such a smart
kind of thought e thing like you have to pay attention.
And even I who have read the scripts, if I
watch something again, I always catch something else between, say
(23:34):
Tom and Ship or something that's not in my world
that I didn't wasn't there when they shot it, And
I'm like, wow, there's so much more than what was
just on the page. I still love that your mom's
name is. I just looked around Muffy Cabin. That's my mom. Yeah,
that's been so fun. I loved it, Ali, we had
fun jo, I loved it about hit And that's all
(24:00):
we got today for the pod Club. Be sure to
listen to Ali's podcast. Go ask Ali. You might even
see me on her guest list. I was just on
talking about the power of influencers in our life. It
is good company over there. She gets the good people
she does, and there's just a ton of great stuff
to listen to. I want to remind you that Ali
(24:21):
recommended in Plain Sight, Lady Bird Johnson and SmartLess, which
we've talked about before. But it is a very good
show and it's one of my go toos, So go
listen to it. They don't need me to tell you
to listen to it because they have like a gazillion listeners.
But it's still SmartLess, It's very good. Also a great
(24:42):
one Hysteria. Yeah, get on that train. Okay, guys, go listen,
enjoy until next time. The pod Club is hosted by
me Joe Pianza. Our executive producers are Me Again and
(25:06):
Emily marinof our producers are Mary Do and Darby Masters.
Our associate producer is Lauren Philip. Our theme and additional
music was composed by Aaron Kaufman. Aaron Kaufman is also
our consulting producer and special thanks to Nikki Etre he
was just a wonderful human being who I like to
think at the end of episodes,
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