A Conversation With Tanuja Chandra

In this episode, film-maker and writer Tanuja Chandra takes Pooja through the many lives she’s lived in cinema and beyond it. From facing down a mob to creating films that broke new ground, she opens up about the making of Tamanna and Zakhm, sharing behind-the-scenes stories with MM Kreem, Anand Bakshi, and Kajol. She reflects on the lessons learned from failure, making Dushman, the quiet wisdom of Irrfan Khan, the soulful making of Sur with Lucky Ali and the learnings from Aunty Sudha Aunty Radha. Along the way, Pooja and she concur that longevity matters more than going viral and laugh over the time a bartender ducked at the sight of Sanjay Dutt.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
The year is nineteen ninety seven, and I am on
the cover of Stardus magazine, but this time not in
the way i'd like. Someone's morphed my face onto a
semi naked body, and then the circus begins. People are outraged.
A maila mandel threatens to arrive at my doorstep. The
police commissioner summons me to his office to give a statement,

(00:32):
all for a photo I never posed for. The Mayla
mandle gathers outside my building in a quiet byline of Bandra.
They are yelling slogans of pujabhat murdlah bad than even
my hash Bad Mudabad. And then something amazing happens. A
young writer filmmaker I have recently started working with, who
had come to my house to offer moral support, goes

(00:53):
downstairs and walks straight into the chaos. She faces the
mob head on, drowns out their heckles, and refuses to
back down. Unbelievably, the mob retreats. That woman is sitting
right next to me today. She's a brilliant storyteller, a
fearless feminist, and a dreamer who wants to see a

(01:16):
film end with an entirely female credit role. She's none
other than the extraordinary Tanja Chandra, Welcome to the Pucha
Art Show.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
You remember that crazy afternoon?

Speaker 3 (01:31):
Yes, I do, Actually, I do remember, and I remember
the aggression that I saw in those women. That's what
I remember, more than me fighting back their anger. I
still wonder, what is it that you might have done,
even if it was not a fake picture, what is
it that you might have done that can make someone

(01:52):
so angry that they'd want.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
To wish you dead?

Speaker 3 (01:55):
That's true, So it marvel over it, and I do
what it was because I just remember marching down.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
I remember, I remember you in my house and the
shouting and screaming started, and then it grew louder and louder,
and I could see your body get more and more agitated,
and before it knew it, you had just flung the
door open. And then I looked from my mother's window
and there you were. You entered frame. You just ran
straight into the center of them and started shrieking at them,

(02:25):
and they.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
Were quite taken aback at that time.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
They were shouting slogans in Hindi, and then they realized, hey, oh,
this is a primarily Christian neighborhood. So perhaps the neighbors
won't understand the slogans in Hindi and then quickly changed
to English. Interestingly, we had managed to contact the head
of the Mahala Mundal before that to tell her that
you're coming to protest outside somebody's house was actually the victim,
and their response was okay, in that case, join our

(02:49):
fight against Stardust, to which I said, if I have
to take on the magazine, I will do so individually.
And there you were in the middle of this screaming mob,
fighting for me, yes, but fighting for.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
What is really right.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Like you said, why does the semi naked body of
a woman offend you that much?

Speaker 2 (03:11):
And we're okay with violence.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
But you don't. Now, I remember that they were shouting
for you to come down.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yeah, they were shouting for me to come you said,
but which was bizarre.

Speaker 3 (03:25):
That was bizarre. Mean that thing that they wanted you
down there is what prompted me to go down there
and shout and fight back. What would they have done
to you? I don't have no idea.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
I think they also had photographers with them, because I mean,
we don't have mobile phones.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
With listen a picture with me.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
But I don't think they were ready for the force
that came out of Kylemore apartments in Bandra. So thank
you because I mean, besides going into the crowd and
screaming your lungs out, you also worked closely with my
father and me on Tamana, my first film as a producer.
And you were also in one of the last shots
of the film where finally the father who wants his
daughter dead when she was born, doesn't manage to do

(04:08):
so then, but then decides to kill her when she
is an adult. And there's a mob that's assembled. Replaced
you in that crowd, and you leaped out of the
crowd and onto this actner called Chopsy.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Had attacked him.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
Do you remember giving that shot. You don't remember giving
that shot. You just went for him. Chopsy's quite a
large man physically.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
I remember him.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
Being extremely startled with that reaction of yours and we've
kept that is in the film. So you've got to
go back to YouTube and watch yourself in that.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
That pretty much defines.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
Your personality, you know, when you just go for the
jugular without worrying about what the consequences are going to be.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, but Tamana, we traveled with so much.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
I remember going to the Film Festival in Kettla, Yes,
and we were trying to fit in that world where
we were looked upon as commercial filmmakers and the commercial
film industry looked at us as art filmmakers. So we
were like, when can we kind of bridge that gap.

Speaker 3 (05:10):
The amazing thing is that we were one of the
first groups of filmmakers to think of going traveling all
across India.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
We have charity previews, Yes.

Speaker 3 (05:23):
Charity previews to promote, which then became the way every
film is promoted. But we were one of the first
ones to do that.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
We didn't have a budget for marketing, and what we
did was we tied up with angios across India and
called them and said, hey, we made this movie about
female and fanticide.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
The film is yours.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
Have a charity preview in your city, and whatever you
raise through that evening, the money is yours. The media
was quite stunned that we were showing them a film
before it even went into the theater. And I remember
sitting with a long list of journalists and you told
me that listen, just pick up the phone and call
people individually.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
We shouldn't be ashamed to ask for help.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
They keep telling you to make a certain kind of film,
and when you make that film with your resources, then
it is well within your purview and right to say,
come and watch my movie. I made it with heart
and if you like it, then spread the word.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
And I remember calling every journalist in one way and
beyond and I said, just come to the screening and
watch it and if you like it, talk about it.
If you don't like it, don't talk about it. And shockingly,
every city we went to we were on the front
page of the newspaper.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yes, and you couldn't buy that kind of space.

Speaker 3 (06:39):
And not one newspaper all of them the next.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
Day and we made the film for some eighty laks,
but we raised about accrore eighty for charity.

Speaker 3 (06:49):
The fact that there was so much money raised through
these charity previews just makes the memory of a film
just have so much more value.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
To know they gave back.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah, you know that if Tamana was made and released today,
it would have done extremely well. Yes, but filling metro
cinema fifteen hundred capacity is like a stadium or Chandan
was tough.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
And then national awards were won.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
My first national award actually, and then zakkum happened. My
fear was will I be able to pull this off? Yes,
I was traumatized when I came on to set, but
you were such a great help. And that one particular
shot in Budlique Badahuka in the song when finally the
husband is dead and she picks up the pieces and
you show her for the first time praying openly, where

(07:38):
the son sees her in the hijab and he realizes, oh,
that's what she's been hiding away because she prayed behind
closed doors. And then I pick up the comb and
I go and do that gesture of you know, ki
nazardutaro and you. I remember enacting that shot for me,
and my father looked at you give that rehearsal and
he just started weeping.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
On set, Yeah, I was like, there we go again.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
First of all, I'm terrified of playing this part, and
then you have Tuja who comes and gives this brilliant.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
Short just like that. So it was a bit of
a nightmare. But you were a great help here.

Speaker 3 (08:10):
But I must point out one memory I have which
I tell people all the time, which is about you
on the sets of Zako when we were shooting a
song and that whole day was on the bed.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yes, you didn't leave the bed. You just know I
was sister.

Speaker 3 (08:30):
No, because that square, that from five feet by six
feet or whatever was the place you wanted to be
because I think something. I mean, you didn't want to
lose that character. You didn't want to I mean, I
tell this to actors who believe in bringing in a
deep sense of truth and reality to their performance, because
I think that you felt that this is if I

(08:51):
step out of this, I'll lose her. She'll go away
from me, you know.

Speaker 4 (08:55):
And you just sit there and I remember you'd just
be biting your nail and it's not like you would
be acting it out, but you just sit there and
not stop being her the whole day.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
You know how it is between shots where the set collapses, really, yes,
and then people are having Monday in conversations about whatever.
So I said, I cannot distract myself at this point.
So I sat right there and Nimal Journey was lighting
up around and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
But I just sat there and I said, I can't
lose it. I can't lose it. I must selfishly remain
in this feeling.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
Yes, And that's what saw me through and by the
end of it, I was so exhausted, but so gratified.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yes, you that feeling of knowing after a hard day's
work that.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
Something has been pulled out of you that you didn't
even think was there.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
And that's the magic of films, you know. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:47):
No, but any actor worth his sault should take that
as a lesson, because I certainly use it even till today.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
And then of course we had who happily went off
and did his start and came back and gave the
most brilliant shot.

Speaker 3 (10:01):
I remember directing him in one shot because your dad
was just getting a little late, so he said, go ahead,
shoot that shot. And I was nervous because I was like,
I don't know how he'll take me, the associate director
directing him. You know, he didn't say anything. He was
very quiet, very open, just listened to what I said
and just did a beautiful shot. And those still shots

(10:22):
are the most difficult, where you don't have to say anything.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
Sure, I realized that the most difficult thing to do
is when you're reacting to somebody else's dialogue. And then
there is urge in us as actors that hey, we're
not doing enough. Yes, And one of the common directions
used to be just count to ten in your head,
don't use your head that you don't have, But that
actually works.

Speaker 3 (10:44):
It does. I even say swallow, It felt like something happened.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
I mean, I used to scream breathe.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
When I finally became a director, some of my actors
were then accused of why.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
The deep breathing all the apion happens?

Speaker 1 (10:57):
You know, but yeah, that is actually the most difficult
how to listen, both on screen and off it.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:04):
You know, there's a great Hollywood actor who said something
of the kind that you were doing when you were
sitting in that bed. Is like he said that this
little area, this fiction is I have to absolutely believe
that this is the truth. Yeah, yeah, that there is
no other reality besides this. And then whatever I do,

(11:26):
whether I say it loudly, whether I said softly, whether
I I don't know, cry I don't cry, whatever, it
will ring true because I believe that this is where
I am. This alternative reality is the truth. Yeah, you know,
so that's what you were kind of also doing in
that bed. I mean I remember that really really clearly.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
I think we picked the unit right. You know, it
was sensibilities that were cast. It was not necessarily that
you're the most talented person in the room, but you
are somebody who's right for this.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
Film and the music.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
It was magic to see you, my dad Bushisa, yes
and mm cream. Yes, you are this really unique relationship
with Annania, who is a legend and a man.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
Of very few words, yes, and doesn't want to speak
to the average person rightfully, so has a disdain for most.

Speaker 3 (12:16):
But he loved you, yeah, he did.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
How did this friendship bloom?

Speaker 1 (12:22):
And how did you manage to worm your way, you know,
into his life and heart?

Speaker 2 (12:27):
And he wrote all your songs for one as well,
all our song brother.

Speaker 3 (12:30):
Yes. So of course I was assistant during taman and
and I used to follow your father to the sitting
and I remember of Carter Studio, Yes, his home, his
his uh like there was a mattress on the floor
where everybody used to sit.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
Whether sittings would happen, yes.

Speaker 3 (12:49):
And he had a picture of glib on the wall
behind him where he used to sit, uh. And he
he and our interactions were few at the time, I
mean your dad and he would talk more, but I
guess he could see similarly. I think Yesopra, I shot

(13:10):
an interview between Yeshoprah and your dad and it was wonderful.
One great director talking to another great director about their careers.
Then later on in the evening, I remember your dad
telling me that he says a cheety shooting oh ledd geekon.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (13:26):
Yeah. So so it was just something I mean of
my nature of you know, just sort of quietly running
around doing the things, wanting more, something making, needing to
make everything work nicely. Is Bakshisa was a very very
sensitive and smart guy, so you obviously picked up something.
But when your dad said go meet him for Dushman,
I was shit scared. I was really scared. I said,

(13:49):
oh my god, I don't know if I can do this.
So the first time actually called up Bakshishaw and I
lied on the phone. I said, so I can't make
it today. He said a chattik about Then the second
after a few days, I said, how long can I
be sick?

Speaker 1 (14:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (14:11):
To go?

Speaker 3 (14:12):
So I went to his house and he had this
large brass trae filled with medicine pills and he says,
and he said, oh, but be Marie.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
That's amazing.

Speaker 3 (14:27):
Yeah, And of course I couldn't tell him the boxes.

Speaker 2 (14:30):
That was now married. It was just the fear of
meeting you.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
Yeah, so I said that be tiku and all that.
He said, so now, so he was really warm and
then I did a long narration and you know, even then,
although my Hindi was good, but English is really the
language that I slip into to really express myself because
you think in English, English is how I expressed my soul. Actually,

(14:55):
you know, so while I'm narrating, I'm thinking he has
been thinking that, you know, what's what's this girl giving
me half an English narration and all that. And it
was like over an hour and a half. And when
I was done, then he's like ipo gi and all that.
So I said then he said, I said happy, he said,

(15:24):
so he gave me the feeling that he may or
may not write. Actually, then two days later he called
again and this became a thing between us. I mean,
I just loved that man. He would saya aja for
the first song, which is all that we had planned
to work on. He had written fifteen aras fifteen yes,

(15:45):
I mean today, if you are somebody right too, they'll
take time and they'll think he had fifteen andras and
he was just reading one after the other. Then very
very sort of full of fear, I said, she's up.
These two lines are really good. You think it's okay
if we mix, he said.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
I'm.

Speaker 3 (16:06):
And so he actually made me feel like I was
not a debutant, that I was a director whom he
valued and who had her own thoughts. I mean, he
made me feel tall, and I just will always always
be so grateful for that, because as I went along,
it's been a tough ride in the film industry and
there are many who won't do that for you, you know.

(16:28):
So he's won a treasure just for that. And the
second time, of course I called him for sugars and
for the songs. He said, but I said, why, he's
a bookish but both compasses, and so I couldn't hold

(16:49):
that against him, possibly right, because yeah, I was so
dear to me. But but yeah, you were talking about
the journey that I had with him, which of course
thankfully started through your dad with Tamana and then Zakkam
and then Dushman, and I stayed in touch with him

(17:10):
over the years.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
But what you said is so important is that the
greats of this business are people who make you feel tall,
make you feel worthy. Otherwise, at this point of time,
I think what we're lacking is grace and generosity, and
what we finally work for is for someone to acknowledge
us and more than the audience. I mean, the audience
is very generous, yes, even when they hate your film,

(17:33):
they're generous with their you know, criticism. But when your
when your own brethren, when people from within the community
notice and acknowledge the journey, that really means so much more.

Speaker 3 (17:46):
And really that's all you need one of people holding
your hand, because because it's an absolute unknown that you're
entering into, you do not know in fact, but she's
not told me, you know you because you just don't
know know what will work, what will touch people, what
to make them laugh. It's a business that has absolutely

(18:06):
no like all the mathematical calculations can fail and something
that you made that you never thought will work and
work and it will touch people in some odd ways.
It's unpredictable in that kind of atmosphere where there's no
for which there's no blueprint, because because it's people's opinions,
after all their feelings, there's no way to measure that.

Speaker 1 (18:27):
Stories that you tell with your heart, where you put
everything that you've got on the table. At that point
it might not make you that cash, but then it
sustains and feeds you in the long run, that longer
shelf life is something that we were always committed to
as opposed to the virale mindset that you know, like

(18:48):
soda water, because what you remember is not how well
it did or did not do with the box office.
What you remember is the way the film made you feel.
And even with Sore yes so at that time didn't
do too let the box office, but the music was outstanding.

Speaker 3 (19:03):
Music was hit on day one.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
Yeah, you came to me with Sore and you said that, hey,
I have a producer, P and C preditioner on this company.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
And I said, but then how do I figure And
you said, no, they want to work the studio system
where they will then give the film to a company
like yours to put together and bring in within that budget.
And that was actually the first time in India that
somebody had actually worked in that manner because otherwise we
work traditionally were okay, you know who owns the IPR

(19:34):
and it's all about the IPA. But yeah, Fish, I
network my company making the film for them with our
skill and then delivering to them and then they in
turn would then release it. So you gave me my
first job actually with Fishie, and we had a blast
making that film.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yeah, such a good time.

Speaker 3 (19:51):
Oh my god, every bit of that I remember so
dearly with such fondness, of course, starting with kir king
such beautiful music in that room of yours, which had
yellow walls and those black and white large photographs.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
It was a very colorful office. And then we decided
to cast Lucky Ali. Yes, I think it was my
dad's suggestion, but he said, why didn't you look it Lucky,
And both of us look at each other and we
were like, yes, who what.

Speaker 2 (20:16):
A gorgeous man wouldn't be open doing it?

Speaker 1 (20:18):
And then we called him and he was quite amused,
and he said, yes, I remember you just saying that
nobody else in the world but m Cream could do this.
And he just gave us the most outstanding soundtrack and
abi Jar my favorite song, which was meant to be
the song because the story was such that finally the

(20:40):
teacher steal from his student. Yes, and we kept wondering that,
oh my god, we've got one two three, four, five, six, seven,
great songs?

Speaker 2 (20:48):
How are we going to better these? And we were
in oot shooting.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
You were already left for location, and I was waiting
for Lucky to come downstairs, and I got into the
car with him, and at the time Marika came running
and said.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
The tape has arrived.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
So we played the tape in Lucky's car, and that's
the first time I heard abi Ja.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
I remember this, that moment, remember.

Speaker 1 (21:12):
And I'll never forget that drive from our hotel, I
remember this.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
Shooting and there.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
Was Luckily behind the wheel, there was Abija on the stereo,
and there was Luckily also singing along to you know,
to Abija. And I looked at Marika and I said,
this is definitely one of life's finest moments.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yes, it was just.

Speaker 3 (21:33):
You know, it was I remember Kivan in your office.
He just sang it. I would never attemp to sing it,
of course, but but Ki's voice, oh my god, just
just utter beauty. And he sang this, just this for refrain.
And Nidasa, who wrote our lovely lyrics, he was there.

(21:54):
He just said abi Jar, he just said that. He
just said those words. And when saying sang Avija, they
just sat so beautifully, you know, on that on that tune.
It's so sad that back in the day we didn't
have camera phones, you know, or.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
Maybe that we remember them so vividly. Sometimes I feel
that you know, what you do not manage to capture
on camera. That's why you remember like that, this moment
with Lucky, it's just I can I can smell the air.

Speaker 3 (22:26):
Lucky's raspy voice is just a joy to listen to
in all the songs, and especially Avija.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
And not to forget that gory Karnik. She actually trained
with the violent teeth.

Speaker 3 (22:39):
That's why you know, I was remembering you especially for
this reason today, that you made that happen. It didn't
come to my mind at all.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
Actually, because I had a lot of musician friends who
would tell me that, listen, guys, you'll spend so much
of money on films.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
It's appalling when.

Speaker 1 (22:57):
You have a hero or a heroin with a guitar
in there hand or a musical instrument and they're playing
the absolute wrong chord. And I was like, oh my god,
this is about a music teacher and about a music's
children who then out distances him. And there was that
entire sequence where they have that jugal bandhi and that
face off with the violin. And of course you picked
the easiest instrument in the world, I must say, And.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
I said, through job, what is she going to play?

Speaker 1 (23:23):
And she would come to my office I remember, every
evening and she would rehearse for hours and hours.

Speaker 3 (23:27):
No very important because she was mimicking it, and that's
essential that it looks like it looks like she's playing it.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
And the teacher came with us to the outdoor. He
was there watching every shot to make sure that nothing.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
Was out of singing.

Speaker 1 (23:39):
So a lot of professionals actually noticed that and said,
you know, thank you for getting it spot on in
that sense. You know, I think you've worked with some
people who are not exactly the easiest people.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
I mean they've thought of prose.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
When I say not the easiest people in terms of
they have their bullshit meter and they can see through
a lot of the crap. So when you did Bushman
with Kajal and Sanja Dat together, it's quite a feat
the Nuja when we decided that no, we want Karjol
for it and narrate it to her and she was on.

(24:14):
Then the nightmare Beganie who was going to play this
character of the colonel. And we met a lot of
big stars, but Sanjo was the only one who just
without even hearing the script in detail, just said.

Speaker 3 (24:28):
Yes, he did it, of course out of affection, but
then he was really happy he did it. We had
such a wonderful time, had a crazy time.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
And then we went to South Africa where we were
staying at that Victoria hotel in Cape Town, and I
think Sanjo was there before that shooting for Carthus with
my father. We already stayed there.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
And when we walked into the lobby, the bartender saw
us entering the hotel and ducked. So I was intrigued.
I said, why are you hiding from us here? He said,
last time we had to order extra cases of Bacardi
because we ran out of it.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
Oh and I remember one evening we had an early
morning shoot and you kept saying, come on, everyone, go
to bed, because we've got to wake up early and leave.
And Sanju didn't want to end the evening, and of
course I had other plans. I had already made a
plan to go to a rave which was happening close by,
and me and Mitika were sharing a room right next
to your room, with his door separating us. You went

(25:24):
up and Sanju was also loitering in the corridor, and
you said, Sancha, that got to sleep. So he came
into your room and he was talking to you, and
I was in the next room trying to overhear okay,
saying okay, has he left her room as he gone
up or was he still there? And I went to
the door and I put my ear on the door
to hear your conversation, and suddenly the door was flung open,

(25:47):
and I fell into your room and you were screaming
at him before that. You just burst out laughing, and
he said, oh.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
You're sneaking. You're you're kind of sloping and you're trying
to hear.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
And I said no, And then you told me what
happened inside. He was sitting there and talking to you,
and thatnany he said, pooji, And he just had this
sixth sense and just got up and went to the
door and through the door open.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
That was the end of my rave. I couldn't go
nowhere to go to bed.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
You guys are badasses, and you guys were terrible.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
We were.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
But then if you're bad, you should be bad properly now, yes,
and now one is you know, attained sainthood and you
can see the halo around my head now nine years
souber and all of that hold of thoughts.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
He was crazy.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
Yeah, But talking about Dushman, I think one of the
most outstanding performances was ashdos Rana. And interestingly, we had
cast another actor for that role, and then we saw
him in Gulam in that one scene, and then we
just mutually decided that, no, we need an actor of

(26:51):
his caliber to pull off this part. And you created
one of the most creepy, frightening villains of all time.
And he swept every award that year was his. He
just surrendered to you completely and was so unafraid to

(27:12):
be wild.

Speaker 3 (27:14):
Was just a pleasure to work with because sometimes I
had to actually tell him that hold back a bit,
you know, because he was so free with his with
giving himself out in the shot. You know, for me,
it was actually very clear and simple. As a director
and as a woman, I can't stand this character.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
I hate him.

Speaker 3 (27:34):
There is nothing in him that is salvagible or redeemable.
And this is the way I look at him, and
this is the way movie looks the movie looks at him,
which is to say that we didn't romanticize him at all.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
Absolutely, you know.

Speaker 3 (27:46):
I mean, there's one passing shot I remember and I
think I should those. Rana was such a fine actor
that he did it perfectly. Was that he's just walking,
you know, like a subsequent market kind of thing, and
he just walks past a tailor where he just picks
one tomato from there, walks with it and starts eating it.

(28:08):
He doesn't feel the need.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
To pay for it or.

Speaker 3 (28:12):
The knowledge that he needs to pay for it, right right,
that's what his entitlement is. What he wants, he gets
and he's very hard working, tireless, and you know, he's
quite courageous physically. Also, I remember making him run after
when the police are chasing him, dogs are after him,
and I remember making him run on in one of

(28:32):
the Kamalistan studio on the roof. He just ran.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
No harness to harness.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
In those days, hardly. And then I remember, which is
a really funny memory, suddenly when I mentioned dogs, that
when I had to frighten Vanni for a shot and
she just wasn't getting frightened enough, and then I was
barking like one of the dogs, because just to tell
her that there are dogs barking didn't do it. He's

(29:02):
literally barking, And that was a frightening that I got
the show.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
Yeah, because I think what I can vouch for though,
is that you have a gentle voice, and I know
how high that voice can actually go when you need
to pull an emotion.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
Out of an actor. I don't know where that energy
comes from. It's quite nut sexually.

Speaker 3 (29:25):
Yeah, it's the hunger is feeding itself in terms of
how much I'm enjoying it and loving it and I
want to do more and more and more and more.
That's where the energy is coming from. Because it's like
a a trick I learned from your dad, which I'm
so happy I observed him, is to say action in
the tone of the scene.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
That's so true.

Speaker 3 (29:42):
It's a gentle scene. Say action, don't be don't have
this unconnected action, you know, action, and then when the
person's far away, then lead it out just below the action.
So I used to show it where, you know, like
half a kilometer away.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
They would hear because you've given me the cue with
your tone and when you say action.

Speaker 3 (30:04):
Yes, if a person's like running or chasing or chason action.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
That's so true.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
But we were talking about Cajole and you, and when
she felt that she didn't need to actually express that
much or breakdown. And then she said, I'm not convinced,
and you said, no, I need you to do this,
and she said show me for me.

Speaker 3 (30:23):
It was obvious she had to just weep. It was
a moment of grieving what you've lost. So she just
said that feels too much. She did say all right,
you reminded me. Now she said I'm not convinced. It
feels a bit too much, So she said, you do it,
thinking that I'll probably back down.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
Little did she know.

Speaker 3 (30:46):
What I do with the next second. I mean, I
think that also shot. Very next second, I had thrown
myself onto the floor and let out a wail that
kind I don't think many people have heard. Everybody just
stopped where they were. They looked at me.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
To see the director collapse of the floor, wheeling.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
And they knew that I was acting for Kajub because
she was watching and I didn't stop. I kept going.
Nobody moved. They just stood there and watched till I
had finished with the last few shorter sobs even and
then I got up and she just tapped my shoulders,
she says, And that tap was actually a tap of appreciation,

(31:32):
of saying thank you, you know, and she said, I'll
do it.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
But that's why you're so good with actors, because you
just do the job with your full body.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
You know, you're not somebody who intellectualizes and sits back
because I worked with a lot of people to Nujah
who will explain what they want, but they don't connect
with you. So when you have a director who's so
generous with the emotion and he's going through every emotion
with you, it allows you to then fly. So you've
always had that, whether you were an associate director, whether

(32:06):
you were a director, you just gave it all with
your entire being.

Speaker 3 (32:10):
Actually acting is not easy. It takes a lot. But
my mantra is on the set is feel feel feel Yes,
And one actor actually turned and said, I'm feeling, I'm feeling.
I can't feel anymore.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
And very often you might be feeling, but it's not showing.

Speaker 3 (32:30):
What do you do?

Speaker 1 (32:31):
If I had to use glycerine, I felt I was
cheating and not giving enough. But then I remember care
telling me he said, pusha. You're feeling a lot. It
is not being communicated, and very often you need that
kick start, you know, so don't feel like you're cheating.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
In those days, a woman director, yes, was in itself
exotic and the zoo.

Speaker 1 (32:59):
So when you look back, do you think that there
was this attempt to tell the marketplace that, hey, just
because I'm a woman, it doesn't mean I can't give
you the blood and the gore and the highes that
you probably expect and get from every male director out there.
I'm as capable of giving you something that's commercial, and
commercial meant heightened senses and heightened emotion.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
I was, of course a lover of thrillers, and to
be able to tell a story with a female protagonist
but it be a thriller, it was a very exciting
prospect to me. I did want to, you know, not
have the hero come in at the end. Actually, my

(33:43):
original idea was that he was there in spirit, but
it was her fight to fight alone, and I think
that bringing him there, even though of course he's blind.

Speaker 2 (33:53):
Do you remember when we were cutting the promos to Dushman.

Speaker 1 (33:56):
Traditionally it was always the music promos that were cut
because the song had to release weeks before the film
was releasing, so you started off with song promotes, which
is the worst thing to do because it's not really
telling people what their film is, and people don't want
you to tell people what the film is. So I
remember cutting the thirties sixty with Amid Sixna and we
were all very happy with it. And then was the

(34:19):
executive producer, so in said a very good, very good,
but only one thing. Don't show him as blind. So
I said, my club, I said, film.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
The guy.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
So he said, now you blur out the walking stick
and all the shots where he's looking obviously blind should
be replaced at that How do you do this?

Speaker 3 (34:40):
Cr And I think that's exactly what caused in the
theater when we can find out.

Speaker 5 (34:48):
That you choose very wonderful people earlier.

Speaker 3 (34:59):
What I say, I say now, and I don't know
if I'm right. I say, give them what the film
is about.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
Yeah, absolutely absolutely, But I guess that was then, yes,
And you know it was so important to appease the
marketplace first where they wanted the movie within our world
first game.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
Yeah, yeah, that kind of feeling.

Speaker 3 (35:24):
But you know, both the fish one and sangas had
really good openings. And I remember at the time, again
thanks to your dad, my habit was, which he inculcated
in me, the ritual of calling theaters directly and asking
them how the film is doing. It's a scary thing
to do, but it's a very good thing to do.
So you know, you'd call the manager, how's the collection? Guess?

(35:46):
I public response guess, because you know, even if the
collection is low, if if people are liking it and
responding well, it'll grow. I remember, by the way, I
don't know if he remembers one of his films, not
one that I directed.

Speaker 2 (35:59):
He called.

Speaker 3 (36:02):
And he said, Aji Surgery. He knew them by their name.
Keep public response. So that guy said public response.

Speaker 6 (36:14):
I never forgotten that how gutsy and courageous a director
needs to be, you know, to make a movie and
then to deal with the aftermath.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
Absolutely, And I remember my father telling me this.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
He said, if there's a death in your home, are
you going to ask the neighbors to come and pick
up the cops? So he said, if your film is
not doing well or it's a flop. Everyone hates that
dreaded word flop, but flop it's inevitable. He said, you
have to look it in the eye and pick up
the corps and give it a dignified burial then, which

(36:51):
is what I also embraced. I mean, I never hesitated
to say that, hey, the movie is not doing well,
or it's not being accepted or it's not liked.

Speaker 3 (36:58):
But I must say, when you say that, you know
you've also been the type to accept when a film
doesn't do well. I thought I was that, but the
failure of sur really deeply hurt me, you know, yeah,
And I didn't talk about it, and I didn't, I mean,
I cried a lot, and then I got into this

(37:18):
kind of habit, which is not a healthy thing, of
pretending like it's not bothering you. So you come across
as somebody who's very strong and good with accepting what
works what doesn't work. But actually I wasn't. I was
just hiding it. And over the years and I realized

(37:39):
that that's actually not very ill and that's not the
right thing to do. You should talk about it, that
you know that I'm really sad it didn't work. But
if you just kind of walk like as if you
know your cat's whiskers doesn't affect you, then it's gonna
create a sense of shame inside and that's bringing me
a long time to shed. You know, It's taken me
a long time, so which is why I also say

(38:00):
that it's a difficult place the entertainment industry, and people
do tend to walk away when you're not successful, you know,
and they and I've seen this physically where they'll physically
come to you to talk to you when you are,
you know, when your film is doing well, and then
and then start creating a distance between you and them

(38:22):
when things are not working. So then that shame increases.
You feel really bad, and then you know you're left
to your own devices or how to come out of it.
And I think the one good thing is that you
keep the love for storytelling going and hope that something
will touch people again.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
You know, your mother is one of the most prolific
writers and Tramrogan CHANDONI I think two of my favorite films.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
Is that what drew you to also want to tell
your own stories.

Speaker 3 (38:51):
I'm sure we are all inspired by it because all
three of us, my brother and my sister, we're all
in the arts. My brother is a novelist. My sister
also loves movies and works in the movie. My dad
is the only one who is this sort of the
science science end of it. What he used to do
when we were young, and you know, it was a
middle class family, but he would make sure that he
always bought really high quality encyclopedias. So even till today,

(39:16):
our bookshelves I just aligned with books and encyclopedias and
reading material because he thought this is really important to
inculcate in his children, despite the fact that he is
not much of a lover of movies, you know, but
my mother was. She's the kind of person who will
just go anywhere and ask any producer to listen to

(39:39):
her because she has That's what her story is. Raj
kapur Is. I mean, it's amazing that she just called
up Rap's office at Urquide Studios and said that I
have a story. So his first she called up the assist,
his assistant, and the assistant said that will you come
and narrate it to me? So she said, no, hell,

(40:01):
love this. She said, it's only Raji that I will
tell the story. Wonderful and so call credit to the
assistant who's who told Ratsab and okay, let her come.
Then when she went there to our kid studios. He said,
it's amazing to me. I mean, these are the great directors.
He said to his secretary that amid disturbedment. Khana ya ya.

(40:28):
That was otherwise, don't disturb it. At the end of
the three hours, I'm going to make prim broke.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
What a great story this is.

Speaker 3 (40:36):
She's something else actually, and the same thing with Chani
and Yes.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
Brabb single was based on your mother's the radio play
which she'd.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
Written working with it fun and Parvati, who was brilliant.

Speaker 3 (40:51):
Yes, from the very first like five page synopsis, it
was always in fun in my mind, it was in fun.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
Yah.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
Yeah, he was Yogi. And then of course my very
dear friend who was also my co writer on that
she and I started working on the screenplay. I used
to message him I had, by the way, before this,
tried to make a couple of films with him which
didn't work out. Okay, he saidis beach though, So I said,

(41:24):
I wasn't too hopeful. I wanted to meet him, so
I sent him the synopsis. So then he made Shutapa.
His wife called me and called me for a meeting
with and they said that if fans told me that Okay, let's.

Speaker 2 (41:38):
Do this together.

Speaker 3 (41:39):
But after that he took one year to say yes.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
He took a year yes.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
He did not say yes right away till I finally
actually said that, you know, if if it's not gonna happen,
you know, maybe another time. So his wife said, let's
make it with someone else if one said, and you know,

(42:03):
he said that there's something that I need that will
just make me fall in love in such a way
that then I can't look back. So I said, how
long do I have to wait for that luck to happen?
Of course, in that one year, Gazilla and I revised
the script and we made it better. Then what told
me was that in the night he used to at
three am four am walk around their house sometimes speak

(42:26):
the lines out loud. And then he said the thing
that turned it around for him, which was that Yogi
loves his driver, and he says that he's not his driver,
he's his companion, he's a partner in his life. And
he said, that's the thing that made me want to
do it. Actually, we had another actor for the female role,

(42:47):
which didn't work out, so and I met quite a
few for that as well. By the way, I've actually
met a lot of actors, actresses and actors, and Howard
knows a lot of them. So part of the it
was so amazing because I didn't think the producers would
say yes because of such a she'd never done she's
a south actress who's never done Hindi film. But again

(43:10):
all credit to Z Studio for that. They said, yeah, interesting,
let's do it, and so we went to Kerla, met her.
She liked it. And what was interesting was that not
only are these two people sort of different whatever physically
they look different, but they're also from two completely different
parts of the country, and they speak different languages, they're

(43:32):
different in their culture. That difference is actually true difference
rather than what rom com often pretends to be the
true two very different characters. Absolutely yere, it's actual my
Dphit Narayan, who's also a dear friend. He had shot
national geographic documentaries and so that's the vibe I wanted,
like a travelogue. Practically all of it is handheld and

(43:55):
because of the feeling of you know, journeying, moving and
then of course locations, but really good fun and this
the kind of stuff I love. Now again, this is
something and producers tell me even now that even the
producer of Carey single, so much of it could have
been done on a set. You would have been cheaper.
We were to save money. But you know, I'm telling
you and this you might feel this too, that this

(44:17):
sounds a little too romanticized. But the air of way
you are it affects the actors, it affects the scene.
It is not the same as being in a set,
something not located different, but it's different, and of course
the light falls differently and the sounds are different, you know.
So I'll say that working with it Fan was beautiful, difficult.

(44:39):
He's not easy. He wouldn't like to do too many
takes because you used to think that the spontaneity will
go away. And then at the time of dubbing. I
remember my poor sound designer. He'd say, if a loud
bullyin Q too sore because he's But you know what

(45:03):
the great thing was that because of his mumbling, he
used to change the entire dialogue in dumbing and you
couldn't make out the bloody because of his mouth is
doing whatever it's doing, it's doing one on one. It's
on unique dance, you know. So I think that to
me the most. The biggest revelation about what I think
is great acting and which I saw in Irvan, was

(45:26):
that there was always something new each time I saw it.
The shot is the same, but there's a dynamism in
her Fan's performance which always makes it like grow. It's inexplicable,
it's magical, but it's a hallmark I think of great actors.
You know, I'm so glad he said yes to do

(45:49):
Yogi because today I know that again. Crib Crib Single
did decently when it was released, people liked it, but
it's over the last seven eight years again become something
of a cultur film where people have just fallen in
love with the characters in the movie.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
Somehow, I can't adjust to the fact that we're living
in a world in which Ifan does not walked all anymore,
it would be fair to say that he's left a
huge void.

Speaker 3 (46:19):
Don't you think he had twenty years of amazing work
that he would have done had he lived. But of
course it's hypothetical what I'm saying, but there would have
been outstanding cinema that would have come out of his performances.
I think singlely said that feminist fantasies dal the picture.

(46:41):
So I said, listen, if you don't do it in movies,
where else will we do that? You know. I remember
when we had our preview when there's an interview going on,
and he's a tall guy. I'm short. You know, it's
difficult to compose both of us together in one frame.
So I was like, oh, I'm so short. You know,
this frame is getting ruined. He says after this film,
I feel that you're really tall. So it's fine, you know.

(47:05):
And so that was really good to hear from him,
and I do think I appreciate greatly that he spoke
up for equality. He spoke up, you know, for justice. Yeah,
spoke up very fearlessly about what's wrong in our country
and any kind of bigotry, any kind of injustice against
a community.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
He was really In fact, you are somebody who has
fearlessly and without any hesitation, spoken up, especially in recent times,
about the genocide that is playing itself out while the
world just watches.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:38):
So actually it makes me think maybe that's why I
also I weird in the direction of your dad so naturally,
because you know, he stands for the same things that
I stand for, and right from childhood. I mean, this
is an absolute I don't even know how to describe
it that it pains me when when there's racism and bigotry,

(48:02):
and I cannot bear it that you should look down
on someone, hate someone because of the color of their
skin or because of their religion. What has happened in
the last two years has actually made me do a
deep dive into studying some histories, and I do feel

(48:24):
that we've all been misled in a very big way
where so many cultures, Brown cultures, black cultures, Arab cultures
have been made to feel like they're uncivilized. For me,
it's now a drive to appreciate all those cultures that
have been stamped upon, cultures which are considered, you know,

(48:46):
key to jungle game. There's something they know primitive, but
there's something they know about the.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
Earth absolutely, you know absolutely.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
I mean I have a home right next to Nadivasi village,
and they're unders standing of the world that we inhabit
is far greater than most people who've gone and got
master's degrees, because that's what they live by. I mean,
they see God in every leaf and there is no
distinction between them. Their slogan is ache the ache command,

(49:18):
Sari Avai ache Saman. The day the average Hindustani starts
believing that Sari Hindustani ache Saman, then.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
We will be the.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
Heaven that our forefathers wished, who hope that India would be.
So I agree with you, I mean this, you know
who decides?

Speaker 3 (49:37):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely what is beautiful and what is.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
You're a savage and we are the ones who are
the guardians of culture.

Speaker 3 (49:46):
Just because we're in I don't know, pants and a
shirt and you're wearing a loin cloth, you know, so
that has been happening for centuries and it's time to
turn that around, you know. For example, cotton hand loom.
These are the things that one should say where because
they're they're also environment friendly rather than say polyester and

(50:06):
all the stuff that has been made in factories.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
Absolutely, I mean even me as a rule, I try
and purchased from artisans within India where the craft is
actually dying, because I feel that somewhere you're keeping an
artist alive. Yes, and that's so important. As one artist
to another, we need to support each other.

Speaker 3 (50:24):
And we discover the beauty that has been there, which
we were told is not beautiful. Say, for example, the
Paisley design, it was taken over by the British exactly,
absolutely so, so we thought, oh now it's now very recently.
Oh my god. And I've always loved.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
Me too, that's true. Yeah, it's I think we may
rediscovering our roots. I want to talk about your most
glorious film, the documentary you made on your Aunts. You know,
to go into that documentary stream when you've been a
filmmaker and you've written fiction, it's a whole different way

(51:05):
of looking at the world and telling a story. But
I just was stunned by these two women and how
you were to fly on the wall. But yet part
of that tape history. You know, we talk about feminism
and we talk about being independent women, and we you know,
our idea of what an independent woman is is very
different from the reality. And hear with these women, how

(51:27):
old were they when you shot with them.

Speaker 3 (51:28):
Eighty six and ninety three.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
For eighty six and ninety three, they were living a
life that women who are I think half our age
can't imagine because they were just living it on their terms.
And those shots of them just sitting in the sun
and deciding what should be cooked for food, and then
that whole motley crew of their staff that they have,

(51:53):
some of who were probably.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
As old even older than them. It was the most
fascinating film.

Speaker 3 (51:59):
Actually, with Antisu anti Rada, we've traveled the world over
to festivals and it's been beautiful because actually everybody just says, oh,
this is like my Nanni, this is like my aunt,
like my you know, there's just absolute relatability because relationships
are basically the same with the with elders and you
love them. And in fact, one after seeing the film

(52:20):
said I'm going to go see my grandmother. I haven't
seen her in a long time. In the very next day,
she went to visit her grandmother because she felt that,
you know, which we all do. We tend to just
neglect people. And my boys used to call me all
that every year, come see us, come see as I
never did. Yeah, you know, so I feel absolutely privileged
that I got the chance to make this film.

Speaker 2 (52:40):
You shure to know how long I mean.

Speaker 3 (52:42):
We were there ten days, not very long, but we shot.
We had about twenty hours of footage because morning tonight
we'd shoot there with two cameras and I was nervous
because I had not made a documentary before, and very naturally,
I kind of just eased into the frame. I didn't
want to be a part of it, but it just
and I was talking to them and it made sense
because I'm their niece, so they would talk to me.

(53:05):
So it's not like I'm the director planted there, you know.
So I was just chatting with them, and the chatting
kind of atmosphere just grew. And they have no pretense.
They'll just say whatever comes to their mind. Then they
don't care how they look. They don't. They're no longer
conscious of their wrinkles or of you know, anything. It's
a It's a really liberating experience when you are not

(53:27):
bothered about how you look or what you say, yeah,
and surrounded by help that is your extended family. The
extended family cares for you, and you care for them.
To me, it was the perfect, perfect sort of symbol
of what this world is capable of. If why can't
we live with each other without bigotry and hate? You know,

(53:51):
That's what it meant to me. It became a film
to me. Although I'd found my aunt's always to be
very interesting and funny, but it became a film when
my parents who used to go there every winter for holidays,
told me about the help. They said that there are
two of them, and then there's five people who look
after them, Two old Muslim guys, one dullth woman, you know,

(54:13):
one chatty young thing who's come from Bengal, and a
fifth women who cleans the house. And they give them
plots of farmland and whatever is grown there. So it's
it's this mutual sort of loving system, or even not
even if it's not even loving, it's functional. It's beautiful.

(54:35):
We can just be with each other. We don't have
to kill each other, and we don't have to want
more if you're comfortable. Absolutely so I think that that's
also something which without waving a flag about it in
a simple manner put forth in the story.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
What was the reaction when they saw themselves in this
movie where they were they amused?

Speaker 3 (54:56):
So the reaction was absolutely average. There was this this
is shrugged. They couldn't see the point of making a
movie on them to start with. And after they heard
also there's like they're like, okay, it's okay. Well they
didn't care much. But my the younger Booa did say that.

(55:19):
She said yeah, and I did tell her that that woa,
my name is always going to be on that film.
Who's the one who's made the other person immortal? You
immortalize me, not the other way around.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
You know, if I can have water of this gumption
when I am even close to that age and lived
life on my term, that my form this way, yes,
then it's a full life. Yes, it's a life that
has been lived really well.

Speaker 3 (55:47):
Because you know, they were bitched about also by by others,
you know, yeah, saying that why not, why not? Why
shouldn't they save it for you? Why so? So they
lived at least at the ends of their lives the
way they wanted.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
Amazing.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
You wrote a very moving post when you went to Busan.
I remember you were there with wedding dot Com.

Speaker 2 (56:11):
Yes, there was something about the country and the culture
that left mark on you.

Speaker 3 (56:15):
I absolutely loved it and I can't wait to go back.
The thing that really deeply touched me was that this
is a country that has seen so much pain and
war and loss. I mean, just a few miles away
are their own relatives in North Korea, home they can
never meet. I think that they truly understand loss, and

(56:36):
they have been one of the first countries to stand
up for Gaza and Palestine. There were protesters would speak
up for them and say that this apatheid needs to end.
So I think that it came from their own lives,
and it's so great. My personal theory is that if
you go through unspeakable grief and pain, then something changes

(56:59):
in you. There is something that happens that you can't
come back from. And in the case of South Korea,
they've turned it around. They've not let hatred be harbored
in their hearts and souls and be able to speak
up for some distant country because at human level it's important.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
Though.

Speaker 3 (57:21):
You know, I've read books by great South Korean writers
and I remember a line that broke my heart was
that this female character wrote about her mother in the
twenties or thirties, they were very poor, wretchedly poor, and
she said that I don't think I've ever seen my
mother sit down even once. You know, I think in

(57:44):
India one has also seen that. You know, there are
women who.

Speaker 2 (57:47):
Just work, work, work.

Speaker 3 (57:48):
All the time, and we must appreciate that there needs
to be some you know, love given and some regard
for that.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
When I saw you wedding Dot com was heartbreaking, is
that these women who have worked so hard and then
are told by society that you're not complete until you'd
find a suitable groom, and then fall for that and
are exploited at their most vulnerable state, and then the

(58:21):
men get away with it.

Speaker 3 (58:23):
And the women are called stupid.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
Yeah, so you know, couldn't you see it earlier?

Speaker 3 (58:28):
Yes, all of them felt very stupid, so they actually
feel it.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
It's not all right women.

Speaker 3 (58:33):
I mean, fraud can only happen to write professional women
because they've got money. And the youngest was twenty seven,
and she was already considered past the marriageable at twenty seven, Yes,
twenty seven, so she's already desperate.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
Aren't the people still wanting to get us married at
this age? I mean, you know, I'm still told that, hey,
when are you getting married again?

Speaker 3 (58:53):
And tells me all the time. But she's like Nina,
I said, mother, I'm okay, I'm fine, I don't have
to be married, and I'm nothing. Yes, marriage, might font
have to be married. So you know, one day I
stumbled upon her on the phone. She's talking to somebody else. Nahiki,

(59:19):
I what is this tone? This bazarre tone?

Speaker 1 (59:25):
Oh my God, I have a plaque in my bathroom
and it says a woman who is looking for a
husband never had one.

Speaker 2 (59:32):
So that's right there. But coming back to wedding dot
Com and at twenty seven, she's told that she's over
the hill.

Speaker 3 (59:39):
Yes, so you can imagine her desperation, and in that
desperation believing a man. I mean, where is the stupidity
in that? It makes perfect sense to me that she
would because she her need is so high. And then
you know, you make mistakes because banking digital the sort
of technology it's easy make mistakes. I still make mistakes

(01:00:01):
of you know, you can go wrong. Then you end up,
you know, sending money somewhere and then it goes somewhere irretrievable.
Then you find out, then you feel shame. Then you
have to hide it. Then the family says to hide it,
so then you can't go to the police. The first
thing that must be done to catch the perpetrator is
to go to the police, you know. So that's what
I told them. I said, I'm not someone judging you
in the least. I'm a fan of you. I think

(01:00:23):
you're a hero to come and talk to me on
the show. I'm holding your hand and walking with you.
So never think that you have to feel that you
were idiotic or stupid. You know you won't at all.
The blame actually the lens of looking at it has
to shift. We have to say how could he do this?

(01:00:45):
Instead of saying how could you fall for this?

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
I blame society's pressure on women that no matter.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
What we achieve, we're told that if you don't take
that box, is something wrong with you. There's something that
is incomplete. Where does the platform come in? Are they
supposed to take some responsibility?

Speaker 3 (01:01:04):
They absolutely should. I think there's some few vague lines
that say we have vetted, but it's not actual wetting
of the people who become members on a wedding app.
First of all, they pay money, I mean, so obviously
it's a business, correct, and so nobody wants to come
in the way of money that they're running. And they'll
have some few lines that we've done our best. You know,

(01:01:25):
you are doing it at your own risk. So it
completely puts you in the dock that you're responsible for
all the fraud that happens, and they are free of blame,
so which is terrible.

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
Yeah, it's it's extremely unfair.

Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
Because a lot of them, more than half are fake profiles.
So you can.

Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
Imagine, Wow, we live in time, the fake profiles, fake followers, fake.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
Tickets being sold in cinema halls.

Speaker 3 (01:01:54):
Yeah, I mean who are.

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
We lying to eventually? Ourselves? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:01:58):
No, I mean, you know too late in life, I've
discovered that perception does affect what you say earn in
life in terms of money, not reputation, but perception does.
I used to in younger days say that, oh, it's
all crap. I don't want to promote myself. But now
I've come to see that if you promote yourself, then

(01:02:21):
people will believe that that's what you deserve, much more
than what you make it out to a certain extent.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
But don't you think that eventually, if it's all built
on lies, then it falls like a pack of cards.

Speaker 3 (01:02:32):
Although fraud in this year, just this last year has
gone up, I don't know many many.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
Fold economies are down while we scream that they're actually
right up there. And I think that people get desperate
and then desperate people do desperate things.

Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
Yes, yes, absolutely. On Instagram, I got a message from
a doctor Andrew Sharma. If you believe he's wearing a
he had the scope in the display picture, Like really,
He's like, hello, dear, I would get to love to
get to know you.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
Oh my god. No one makes the conversation with you
like that.

Speaker 3 (01:03:07):
But then I mean, in my head, I'm thinking, I've
just made the series. I know about you, you asshole.
I just deleted that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
I have a simple rule.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
If you want to say something to me, you say
to me on my timeline so that the whole world
can read what you're saying to me.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
And I respond, can you check your d M please?
Doesn't work with me?

Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
Which doctor wears sethoscope? Actual doctor. It's like in the
movie you want to make doctors walk around, you have.

Speaker 2 (01:03:32):
To have that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
I know, I like every Christian character and Hindi movie
had to wear across this big but this space of
the documentary, the docu series.

Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
Is something you just eased in two and you did
with such flourish.

Speaker 3 (01:03:47):
I mean there was a slur earlier on that aray.
If you if you if your film, if your script
reads slow, or if your film is slow the documentary.

Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
That's true. That's true.

Speaker 3 (01:03:58):
So, which is terrible because documentary is a great format
and the world over it's revered and the world over.
Such a fantastic work is being done in it. So
I love it. It's what aligns with what I feel
is my calling as an artist, which is to just
put stories out there that speak about, you know, in
some way, a better.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
World, wonderful and lots of stories being written.

Speaker 3 (01:04:20):
Fiction, Yes, yes, fiction is written, one of which, of
course I want to have you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:23):
I cannot wait in it. I cannot wait. I truly
mean that the it would be after Za.

Speaker 1 (01:04:29):
Absolutely, I've always maintained this to my father and now
to the world again, my performance would not have been
the same if you were not on that set, and
I mean that from the bottom of my heart.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
So I must say thank you to you to that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
So I can't wait to be back on a set
with you, to just be completely deconstructed.

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
So I think this is the right time.

Speaker 3 (01:04:49):
That's fantastic because what you say is music to my ears.
Also because I do think, and I'm putting this on record,
that you're a marvelous actor, just a mark fector, and
so I will that's the I want to do this
with you. So yes, we're in the midst of writing
that script and almost done with another one. But after
which begins a struggle, which is to go find funding

(01:05:10):
for yes, yes, and then the funder says actor gone.
So then you go to the actor. Then I hear
the nose. Then eventually it reaches a yes, and so
then we make it. Then after the difficulty of making
it is the difficulty of releasing it, and then after
that the reviews.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
Everybody is a critic today with that phone yes, So
how do you then plod on?

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
I think by knowing inherently who you are. If not,
the world will tell you who you are.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
What shall remain with me is that just tell stories,
to show the world as a better place and to
dream that it could someday be a better place. And
I think that's what our jobs really are as women
and as artists. Tough, because sometimes our bank balances don't
correspond with our dreams and our hopes and.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
Our kind of vision.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
But you know, eventually your caliber shows in how you
endure the lows.

Speaker 3 (01:06:02):
No. And I've been through a long, really difficult period
and I'm happy to report that I've come out of
it wonderful. And this is my having come out phase,
and I only expect it to get better and better lovely.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
So now we're going to turn the tables. So if
there's anything you want to ask me that most people
would not dare, now see time to do.

Speaker 3 (01:06:27):
That well, as it's been more of a conversation, which
is why it's been lovely actually, So question, do you
feel lonely?

Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
No? I used to feel very lonely in my marriage.
I used to feel lonely sometimes in a crowd. But
I think with giving up alcohol my neediness as a woman,
as human being, where I felt that unless I'm not
reflected back in somebody's eyes, do not exist. That automatically

(01:07:03):
went away. And I love to see people in love
when I thrive on all of that, but I just
don't feel the need to be fused with somebody to
feel alive anymore. So today I'm enjoying single blessedness for
the first time, you know, at fifty three, I'm single
because I wish to be anti Sudha and anti Radha.

(01:07:25):
Oh my, you know, theyre my aspirational icons in that sense.
And if I can be like that sitting at my
farm at ninety two, if I make it in the
sun enjoying the pleasures of al Khanakabanana then I think
it's a life that would be full.

Speaker 3 (01:07:43):
Sure, yeah, I relate to that in so many ways.

Speaker 2 (01:07:47):
But thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:07:48):
It's my privilege, absolutely absolutely, and I can't wait to
see more of your work and I can't wait to
be on set with you.

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
That's importantly.

Speaker 3 (01:07:57):
Thank you for both, and yes to both, and rage on.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
Please please continue to just leap on to people and
to collapse on the floor and inspire actors.

Speaker 2 (01:08:06):
To do what they do. You're a wonderful woman. You
call a chick. I must say I told you that
on the phone. I mean it. So it's an honor
and a privilege, and.

Speaker 3 (01:08:13):
Thank you, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
The Pooja Part Show is produced by Mammoth Media Asia
and Epilogue Entertainment and distributed by iHeart Podcasts.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
The executive producer is Jonathan Strickland.