MEN SERIES: My Journey With Cross Dressing Part 2

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome one and all to the Professional Homegirl Podcast. Before
we begin today's episode, we want to remind you that
the views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those
of the hosts and guests and are intended for educational
and entertaining purposes. In this safe space, no question is
off limits because you never know how someone's storyline can
be your lifeline. The Professional Homegirl Podcast is here to

(00:22):
celebrate the diverse voices, stories and experiences of women of color,
providing a platform for authentic and empowering conversations. There will
be some key king, some tears, but most importantly a
reminder that tough times don't last, but professional homegirls do
enjoy the show.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Hey, professional Homegirls, it'shagirl ebiney here, and how are y'all doing?
I ain't gonna hold you. I've been feeling really cute lately.
I've just been in a spirit of gratitude. You know,
I am just so thankful for life right now, and honestly,
it is really a flex to be able to do

(01:09):
what you love, okay, and to also make a little coin.
But you've already know your girl has been working harder
than a two dollars home. So I got a few
things that I would love to share with you all.
First up, I've been working on my first ever turkey
drive in Memphis. Now, for those who didn't know, even
though I was born in New York, I was raised

(01:31):
in Memphis. Yes I know, and giving back to Memphis
it's really important to me Professional Homegirls, so stay tuned
for more details. However, if you would like to donate
a turkey, please please please hit me up at Hello
at thephgpodcast dot com. Now, Spooky Series is coming up
for October and I can't even believe it's about to

(01:52):
be October, but Spooky Series is here and I am
super super excited. So for those of you that are
new to Spooky Series, for every week in October, we
share a real, true life scary story. And y'all when
I did it the last year. During this time, I
interview a vampire child, yes, a vampire, a ghostbuster, a uthologist,

(02:16):
and much more. So definitely go back and give those
episodes some love. But if you gotta spoke your story
to share, please do not hesitate to email me or
you can hit me up on social media at the
Professional Homegirl at the PHG Podcast and definitely DM me
your story now. This week's guest reached out to me

(02:37):
after listening to episode sixteen, My Journey with Cross Dressing,
and he wanted to share that the episode didn't fully
represent the experience of black heterosexual men who cross dress. Listen,
my guest was extremely nervous, and we had several conversations
about keeping his identity concealed, to the point where we

(03:00):
even change his voice because listen, I am not in
the business of messing up anybody's coins. Okay, this episode
was definitely eye opening as he takes us through a
thirty five plus your Journey of cross dressing, sharing details
about his wife, awareness, paying homage to black women, and

(03:20):
the isolation he sometimes feels. So get comfortable because My
Journey with cross Dressing, Part two starts now. All right,
to my guests, thank you so much for being on
the show. How you doing, How you feeling?

Speaker 3 (03:35):
I am well, we apprehensive but excited to be talking
with you and this particular talking.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
Why are you being apprehensist? We've been keicky in for
like what two hours now we have, but at.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
The same time, this is it's a little different, but
nonetheless I feel like I'm a good hands, So up, great.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
Conversation exactly now before we begin, because we are going
to touch on a topic that I have already discussed
with a previous guest, and they bought this to my attention,
I'm like, I don't know why I didn't think of this.
So what are your pronouns?

Speaker 4 (04:10):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (04:10):
Well, I mean this depends on as my pronouns are
as I as I appear to the world. So in
my everyday life it is E him, dude, and when
and as and when appearing as my other's self, it's she,
her and chick and chick.

Speaker 2 (04:29):
Okay, perfect, Now, how did you hear about the episode?
Like did somebody send it to you or did you know? Okay, no, and.

Speaker 3 (04:37):
Just trying to find information and listening to podcasts and
type in a search word, and there was and you
don't get a chance to hear black people talking about
this particular topic as it contains two black people, and
so immediately grabbed my attention and I immediately started to listen.

(05:00):
Popped in the air prods and start listening.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
Now, when you first listened to the episode title I
Am a Black cross Dresser, where were your initial thoughts?

Speaker 3 (05:09):
Hope, Hope, that a story would be told that would
not lend itself to stereotypes.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
Right, So, when you finished the episode, over your thoughts, I.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
Heard some I heard some good stuff, but I heard
a lot of things that were not applicable to my
situation and did not vibe with what things that with
my story, And so it forced me I would I guess,
I'm we're going so far as to say it forced
me to contact you to say, that's not that that's

(05:50):
a story, it's not the story.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
Right now, listen, y'all. My guess. He sent me a
whole thesis and he had my full attention. I was
in the meeting, I was like, what was this? And
we were just going back and forth like it felt
like we knew each other for a very long time.

Speaker 3 (06:07):
It felt that way because I think, and that's a
credit to you because of how you present yourself and
you put people in a space of place where you're
asking logical questions that aren't offensive, and so it makes
somebody want to be able to say, hey, I appreciate
the work that you did, but there's something else that

(06:30):
didn't get covered.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
Yeah. Now you mentioned in the email that my guest
representation that black cross dressers doesn't capture the full picture.
So what aspects of crossdressing cross dressing, particularly within the
Black community, do you feel are often overlooked or misunderstood.

Speaker 3 (06:48):
So I'll go in the order it was presently overlooked
is the fact that you can have people who are truly, truly,
truly heterosexual and this as a part of their personality
or a part of their identity. So I think that's overlooked.
It is not seeking sex from anybody, whether it's an

(07:13):
man or woman. It's not bodder or a porn site,
it's not anything like that. It's it's a part of
an identity, no more than somebody's left or right handed.
It's a part of an identity. And that's what I
feel needed to be highlighted. And what I got from
the initial interview was kind of I didn't really feel

(07:38):
like that was the like that got accomplished, and so
I wanted to wanted I discovered the need to reach out,
and so yeah, that was that, And so you said
that was the one thing, and then the other part
of the question was mistood misunderstood, and so I think
that those were those work hand in hand, and so

(08:03):
what I just said words hand in hand with being misunderstood,
or somebody saying, oh, you must have been in vice
as a child, No, that's that's that's not my situation,
or someone saying, uh, you must have been raised in
an all female home. No, that's not my case. I
would be I would have been classified as a job,

(08:25):
a big job back in in my in the earlier
factors of my life. So and and nobody in my
life would be able to say, oh, yeah, I always
knew you were a cross, Like hell, you do know
you don't You had no clue because and you had
no clue for two reasons, one because I never told you.

(08:47):
In two and I know this is going to sound bad.
I don't want to sound sinister, but I know how
to cover my tracks well enough that you would know,
right right, So those are the things that I would
want that that I that I took from that. And
so it was very it came across no shame or
no no distward, and that's aging myself toward anybody who

(09:13):
feels something else. But it kind of came across as
somewhat sexual, and that's just not that's not it. And
it's no sexual connotation here. So that's what that was
mind tent for reaching out, and that's what I felt
like people might not get if they listened to that.
I felt like they would walk away saying yeah, kind
of what I thought, you know, that type of thing,

(09:35):
or somebody kind of coming away saying, oh yeah, yeah,
that's what I thought. They all kind of like and
ask to use a terminology or a burbage. That might
be a little bit kind of ascending to some but
if you just kind of having a regular conversation with people,
that's something that they do is might say on another
and that's not it. I've had I've had a ton

(09:55):
of physical fights, not to not knock glorifying or a
hyper hypers social life and fighting. But I'm just saying,
you would not get us out well you know, on
the ass fuck with me, but you know that that's
that's that's I mean. I don't come from that kind
of thing where I just like and delicate. That's not it.
I don't even present it that nobody would take me
in like delicicture. I don't so I'm sixcelling. So people

(10:20):
don't think of me like that. They're like, yes, it's
like okay, there you go. Right.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
Well, you also made a good point, which I agree
with you, is when people think, uh, black cross dressers,
they are automatically associated with homosexuality. So how do you
navigate those misconceptions in your personal and social life?

Speaker 3 (10:40):
Uh So, in my personal life, I mean, so I
am married, So my my spouse is abundantly clear, she
knows that is not that that's not a problem in
our household. And I don't want to say a problem,
because there's some people who have to suppress their life.
So I don't want to make it sound like that's
a that's she's the word problem. That that's not That's

(11:01):
not a thing for me. That's not a thing in
my life where I feel some sort of pool sociological
psychological pool towards saying I'm suppressing or pool toward homosexuality
pool or feel like I'm not being my true suf.
I absolutely don't have that issue. So, yeah, it's not
a sexual thing for me. It's a sense of enjoyment.

(11:25):
But it's also a sense of paying homage. And so
again it's not sexual. It's just it's a way for
me to display and a part of my personality.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
Hey, you another thing that we touched on is because
when I was doing research for this conversation with my
previous guest, you know, I told you that I felt like,
when it came to the black cross dressers, it was
very like sexual but when it comes to the white
cross dresser, it was like they just put it on
the dress. They're looking pretty and keeping it moving. So
why do you think that there is a difference between
how both This is our representatives because we.

Speaker 4 (12:02):
Live in a world that ends contradictory, and so what
I mean by that is this, black people are hyper
Black people are hyper sexualized, and on television, black people
are hyper sexual lives.

Speaker 3 (12:16):
Day to day lives, men and women. That's why I
say black people, black people, black men, black women, black
trans women, black transmit black people. Everybody falls up on that.
Black kids are considered to be hyper sexualized. And so
when you think of something that is not considered normal,
it throws it into hyperspace where people say, see, that's

(12:37):
what it is. They just know, that's how they think,
that's how they function. That's not true. Now here's the
contradictory part. But as Black folks, we don't talk about
sex and the household. We don't even educate our children
about sex. More more Black kids find out about sex
through experimentation versus being told, hey, you have a body,
there's nothing wrong with your body. Your body, it was

(12:57):
a blessing from a higher power. This is how you
share your body with somebody that you feel especially enough
that they can receive that gift. But we don't talk
about that. So then you have people that find out
real life lessons by way of things that are are
our unfortunate circumstances. And so it's frustrating because people have

(13:18):
this perception. And so if you go to the Internet
and you type in if you typed in cross stresser,
then you would likely see they're automatically going to gravitate
to it white and then you'll see explanations. Thesis essays,
you find some people who are pro, you find some
people who are con but it gives you an explanation

(13:40):
type in black cross dresser, and you are willing to
see some very some things that would they're going to
say on the mile side is provocative. On the on
the butt, it's all leading towards somebody saying, oh, let
me show your dick. Like it's not about that, that's
that you're not representing me. You're not representing me. And

(14:01):
so that's no different than somebody saying, well, hey, somebody
who does something that's wrong legally who happened to be black. Well,
that's a representation about black people. That's absolutely not true.
So when people show those images, I immediately say, that's not me.
I don't don't, I don't think like that, I don't
function like that. That's not my life, that's not my story,
And so people will try to put that on you

(14:25):
and that's not the case. So I think it's because
we live in a contradictory world and you don't find that,
you don't find somebody willing to give a logical explanation
of what it even is, but they immediately jump to
a sinister and I think that's it.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
Remember that white man, he was like wearing heels and
stuff and like he'll put on like a skirt with
a tuxedo shirt or something, and he was getting like deals.
Remember that, sure, And I was just saying to myself like, wow,
like they don't do that with black men.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
Well, be candid with you and Eddie Izard, who is
a British uh comic or pro or you're from the UK,
whatever whatever vernacular you prefer, has made a career out
of it, and and that and and and sometimes he
does his stand up dressed as his male self. Sometimes

(15:21):
he does his stand up dressed as his feminine persona,
and nobody thinks anything of it, and he has lived
a very good life. Now, on the flip side, you
have black men who will be in dresses and on
television or in movies, and it's and that's essentially condemnation.
Your career has been stereotyped. And and there are people

(15:43):
who say that if you do, you have to do
that to cross over into the thresholds or into the
glory realm of of of media. And that is sad
that that is a benchmark. But I also think that's
a way to try and take away the mass uninity
of black men. And so it's contradictory in a sense

(16:03):
that somebody can say, well, what you do adds to that,
and I would say no, because one, I'm not trying
to appear on camera. Two, I'm not trying to harm anybody.
Three I'm being my true self. If somebody does that
to be a character, then I hate that to me. Yes,
that does provide a since that does this credit somebody

(16:24):
who was saying, hey, this is just how I am.
I'm not doing anything that is trying to be offensive.
I'm not trying to be sexual, I'm not trying to
be some I'm not trying to degrade myself. I'm not
trying to provide this makes you happy commentary if it's
something that makes me happy, and now that is no,
it's something that's just in me. So no different than

(16:46):
a person who says, hey, you know what, I just realized.
I've never been attracted to people of the opposite gender.
I'm attracted to people of the same gender. And they say,
how long do you know that? I've been like this
all my life. I don't argue with people, gonna argue
with people when they said when they say that, how
am I going to tell somebody what they knew about themselves?
That sounds absolutely stupid.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
Right, That's a fact. That's a fact. So do you
think society's attitudes towards cross dressing will eventually evolve in
the next couple of years? Because I feel like this
shouldn't be taboo.

Speaker 3 (17:18):
So here's the thing. Here's where I look at young
kids now and I just want to say you know
what you are some bad ass. Because young kids now,
whether they're straight, whether they're bisexual, whether they're or asexual
or whatever, there's so many terms, so many terms now,

(17:38):
but they bond together and they almost they say, hey
this if somebody says I'm gonna wear this that they wear.
The younger kids see things as it's just clothes.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yeah, I'm expressing myself.

Speaker 3 (17:52):
I'm expressing myself. And then you will literally find them
bond together and say, I dare you to give this
person a hard time. We will gang up on you,
and then they will ostracize you on social media and
make a person's life Hell. People who are older don't
have that because we grew up saying hey, it was
what it was. Things are what they are, and don't

(18:13):
get me wrong, I have that part of my personality.
But at the same time, I firmly believe everybody's an individual.
So you should be able to have the bandwidth to
be able to be your true self and do something
that makes you happy. But everybody doesn't get that, so
do I. So to give you a hard answer, the

(18:35):
will society change for the younger people, Yes, because they're
not going to give you an option. Younger people now
don't give you an option. They tell you this is
what I'm doing and if you don't like that, that right,
and that's that on that and that's where I am.
And if you don't like that, I'll tell you what.
I will plan you for not giving me the opportunity
to be who I am, and it will make you miserable.
And older people don't get a chance to do that.

(18:58):
And when I say older, I'm not talking about elderly.
I'm talking about people and beyond don't get a chance
to do that because we were part of a different society.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, like we had the best of both worlds.

Speaker 3 (19:14):
Yeah, we do. But the thing about it is the
thing that we're more observers in this new world than.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 3 (19:23):
Now go ahead, No, no, I just just I just
come from a point.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
So how long have you been frost dressing?

Speaker 3 (19:34):
Five years? Wow?

Speaker 2 (19:36):
Does it feel like thirty five years?

Speaker 3 (19:39):
No? No, because it's like it's like asking somebody. It's
like saying asking somebody if they're black. And does it
feel like.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
That's not a good point? Come on me like that?

Speaker 3 (19:51):
No? No, no, no, no, no, no no no, And
I'm not doing that to clown you.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
Okay, okay, come on now.

Speaker 3 (19:57):
No no, no, no, no, no no, I'm not counting you.
I'm just trying to show you. What I'm saying is
it's so natural that you don't think about it. Okay,
that's the point. So when you say, does it feel
like thirty five years? Now, if you say does it
feel like it's been thirty five years since you, you know,
did something stupid in this stuff your life, and somebody said, no,
it's been feels like it's been like thirty five hundred years,

(20:18):
well yeah, because that's painful. This has been painful.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
Because I'm as come on now, we didn't have a moment.
I thought we was friends.

Speaker 3 (20:25):
Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, we're good. Right.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
It's just but that's a good point though.

Speaker 3 (20:31):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, how it happens. What's natural to you?
Feel me? If you don't count it, you just go, okay,
it is what it is.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
So how were you introduced to it? Like, what were
some of your early experiences?

Speaker 3 (20:46):
The first was I was preschool and I saw something
that my mother had and I liked it, and I
was like, there was no there was no banned list
of items that we made you like or didn't like.
It was just you know, you saw something and you
as a kid, you're curious and you grab it. And

(21:06):
I was like, oh, this is really cool. And so
I got caught and I was swatted on the ass
for it. Uh. And then that was that, and then
a age eleven, age eleven I and then you're you're evolving,
You're starting to find out who you are because you're

(21:26):
growing up. And I was saying, you know what, I
want to wear this, and I made up my mind.
And one night I got in I'm going to have
time at home by myself because I'm an only child,
and so I.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
Was like, oh, I'm a home mama.

Speaker 3 (21:41):
F yeah. Yeah, And so you know, I have cousins,
got tons of cousins that are like like like siblings,
but now I'm an only child, and so I just
made up my mind. I was like, okay, I'm gonna
wear this, and I did. And then the thing was
to hey, don't fall asleep and get caught, and I
did it and I did not get caught. But that
is when it was set in motion, and it was

(22:03):
in my mind it was okay to like something that
was pretty, and it was okay to say, hey, you know,
why did it? And I think for those of us
who have been given this characteristic or this character, I
guess you could call it characteristic of personality trade. We
don't see it as something bad. It's something that allows

(22:26):
you to be curious. And so would that being the case, yeah,
I just and then from there it just kind of
it kind of grew. And then whenever there was time
or I could speak a moment, I did. I would
wear those things that I like to wear. And then
that was that. And it was never anything racy, It
was never suggestive. It was it was always very conservative,

(22:47):
and everything was very conservative. Even now everything for me
is very conservative. It's about an image, just about a picture.
It's about being respectful. Everything is about being respectful, and
it's all about trying to em you women that I've
always said, a very respectful kids who have like this
pristine image, and it's really trying to emulate that. And

(23:11):
that's what it grew into. From being a little kid
that said that's really pretty. I'd like to wear that,
or I like the way she shaped, I want to
emulate that, and then it was just it was a
it was a dominant was that's where people just kind
of stop off from me.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
That's one of the things that I really loved about
your story, and I told you this off the air
is like I feel like when I was reading, when
we was getting to know each other via email, one
of the things that's still at the most for me
is that it felt like you was paying homage to
black women.

Speaker 3 (23:49):
There nothing more beautiful love in this world than a
black woman, not not nothing. When I say black lord,
when I say I love me, I love that, don't
get me wrong. And I'm I'm a bar line that
that the comedian Earth usually said God never created anything
more more beautiful on this earth. And black women, I

(24:11):
mean than a woman. But when it comes to the
most beautiful one, they happen to be black.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
That's a fact. Tell these niggas again in the back now,
ain't nothing more beautiful than a black woman?

Speaker 3 (24:19):
Have a message over when Oh Lord, sisters just it's
just you can't you can't tell. I mean, don't get
me wrong. It's some sisters that do some stuff where
you go, what's on your mind, But I mean as
a whole Oh my sister, I mean, it's just it's
the swag it's sterity, it's the it's the appearance, it's

(24:42):
the skin tone, it's the difference, the different look. I mean,
just black women are just amazing women, not amazing. And
if somebody don't think that, you know what you try
to tell you all opinion, but that ain't mine right,
that ain't mind that black that somebody saying that black
women ain't in bla inside to your being. But wed
I disagree like.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
Him, I know that's real. Now when you cross dressed,
what does it feel like? Because I feel like when
we were speaking, it feels like it's just like this
this you're for feeling.

Speaker 3 (25:17):
It's your for it. But but let me explain to
you for it. For it is that you get to
go be a be a part of your personality. That
that that that doesn't it's like it's it's almost like
in Native American people sometimes refer refer to use a
term called two spirited. I think that's there's some there's

(25:41):
some connectivity there where you where you a person can say, hey,
I have another person that that I am and I
need to address that person. Uh, and I can't shut
that person out. So I think that would be the
way that I would describe it is that I get
to acknowledge another person or uh and and I know

(26:02):
somebody can say, oh you have suffering from multiple personality
or I do not know oh totally. Yeah, yeah, I
mean I know exactly who I am. It's just that
it's just like saying, hey, this is what I get
to go do. It's like you know when somebody said
you could take somebody who's a professional athlete, and it's like,
what's it like, you get to play ball. It's it's

(26:23):
what I do. It's part of who I am. That's
what It's something that I'm good at. Well, this is
something that I am.

Speaker 4 (26:28):
Right.

Speaker 3 (26:28):
I'm a firm believer that if you go if you
have a grade or you have an athletic career that
allows you to play in college, everybody raise your hand,
who did that you have? When you have that opportunity,
then there's something in you that allows you to say, hey,
I can do this a little bit better. And I
think it's part of who you are as a person.

(26:49):
I think this is a lot like that. So it's
like when you ask me what now is if you're
ask a professional ball player, even a college ball player,
and say, is that all that you are. Hopefully they
will say absolutely not. It's a part for who I am,
but it's not all that. So that's facts. I would
liken it to that.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
Now, how important is it for you to be passable?

Speaker 3 (27:12):
In your youth? You worry about things like that because
you're saying, well, I got to do this and I
got to do that. And then there is a website
that is run or I guess it belongs to a
person that is a cross dresser, and that has a
section about passability and it says, look, at the end

(27:33):
of the day, you're in the biggest hands and.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
You're the biggest like we hear now, but.

Speaker 3 (27:40):
It's like, now here's the thing you are not. You
might be able to pass seen as you are like
passing me, walking past somebody, somebody drops past you. They
might if you really know what you're doing, then somebody
could go, oh, I didn't notice that. I didn't picked
up on that. Now, if somebody were to stop, or
you're walking past the mind and somebody said you guys
as feed you have big ass hands, that might be

(28:03):
a telltale sign. Or if somebody says, I think I
see Adam's apple and you don't have on turtle neck
or something like that. I mean, hey, you can't do
anything about that, But I think so I say that
to say that it gets to the point where you
have to be respectable. Are you respecting the gender?

Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (28:20):
Are you?

Speaker 2 (28:20):
Are you being That's what I said.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
Yeah. There are some people who are staunch advocates and
they say no, the fact that you do that meets
you are disrespecting the gender. And now I think that
that's only true if you're showing body parts and you're
being trying to be provocative or you're trying to uh,
you're doing it front with sexual connotations and with the
end result being sex, then I do think that that's disrespectful.

(28:44):
But if you're doing it because you're saying no, it's
something that I feel. I'm there, I'm passionate about it,
and I do it to show us. I do and
the people that I emulate, the ladies that I emulate
are women who I honestly say, you know, I look
up to. So as my male self, I'm open and doors,
I'm opening, I'm letting them go first. I'm saying now,

(29:05):
I am being curtious, I'm pulling our chairs, I'm doing
all of that. But I do that because number one,
I have a great tremendous respect for women, all women,
but again, my favorite black But at the same time,
trying to pay and you want to pay homage to
to that person. So it's like the person who says, hey,
I'm my favorite basketball player was Michael Jordan's and I

(29:27):
only where Jordan's went on, who, Well, why are you
doing that? Because Jordan was the Jordan. My dude, I'm
a Jordan.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
Guy, right, works.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
Right, because that's my dude. Okay, So it's the same thing.
And somebody could say no that, no, there's no there's
no connectivity, and I would say that we can agree
to this, But that's exactly what it is. I'm paying
homage to those who say who, those that I saw
that I said, oh my gosh, that is just like
the hitdome of a woman. I'm trying to say, you
know what, I'm trying to complicate.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
But I also feel like if I am took all
this time and I thne got pretty input on a
damn dress, you're gonna address me as such, thank you.
I think that is so rue. And that is something
that I mentioned in the previous conversation with my last guests, like,
if the person has presenting themselves in a certain way.

Speaker 3 (30:13):
Be respectful, whether you understand it or not. Or you
can even be respectful by not saying any anything a pronoun,
don't do, don't say something that you know is de progatory.
That is a I'm a firm believer. I believe this.
You can have people who don't like one another and
they can show respect. They could be ready if it
doesn't take but a word, and they can be They

(30:34):
could be at odds, they could be fighting, they can describe,
and they could be cut some one another. But not
saying anything is as respectful as it is to say yes, no, no,
thank you, excuse me, I apologize, pardon me. It's just
as respectful. You can be respectful by not saying anything.
And so to your point, if you see somebody that
is dressed as a and they're trying to emulate something,

(30:57):
don't go and say the opposite.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
Yeah, because you well you see now you're being an ass.

Speaker 3 (31:04):
But I'm finding no dress. But I tell you what.
I run it. Look you already know I write a
hell of a letter, though, and I rename tax i'mnna
call your gas out.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
Right right right? Has your relationship with cross dress and
changed as you age?

Speaker 3 (31:20):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (31:21):
In what way?

Speaker 3 (31:24):
The time, the times that I get to do it
are are more special when I was, when I was younger,
when you and that's that's just, that's just, that's becoming,
that's maturity. When you're immature and younger, you don't appreciate time.
You don't think about the value of twenty four hours.
You don't think about the value of one foundred and

(31:45):
forty minutes, which is a day. You don't think about it.
Then you get to the point where you start saying, okay,
wait a minute, Hey, I got twenty minutes to spend
with so and so who needs to be mentored professionally,
I got twenty minutes to be to talk to so
and so who needs to be mentored as they grow
as a person. And then you start figuring out, okay,

(32:06):
what what how much time do I have? And so
I say that to say that, yeah, those I appreciate
it as I get older because I don't have time.
I don't have to do a lot. I really don't.
I'm by got a busy schedule, and I'm not saying
that we ragnocious. That's not what I'm saying. But like
all people, I don't care what your job is. You
don't have a lot of time to do the things

(32:27):
that you want to do. So when you get a
chance to do it, hey, it means something. So I
think that's that's the biggest difference, and then wanting to
put respect behind it so that even I would love
to be able if I were ever given the opportunity
to talk to a younger person who says, hey, I've
been sitting on this part of my personality for years

(32:52):
and I feel like I'm kind of strange or I
feel I feel guilty. I think people get to some
point at more guilt, not strange, because I don't think people.
I think they quickly get out of the strange part
because there's enough things that you can find to let
you know, hey, I'm not strange. But when if they say, hey,
I feel guilty because I can't shut it off, and

(33:16):
I would tell them you're not You're not going to
shut it off. You can't You're not going to shut
it off. It doesn't work like that. No more than
a person can say, hey, now you could teach yourself.
And I was going to say being left handed, right,
and you could teach yourself how to be ambidextrous. You can,
But at the same time, you're in your moment of truth,

(33:36):
You're going to go to your dominant and so in
your moment of truth when you have to talk to
yourself and you say, hey, I don't do that anymore,
you got to look yourself in the mirror, say but
I know that I really want to. So I'm lying
to myself now.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
Right right. Have your perspectives on masculinity and femininity change
since you started cross stressing, and if so, how do
you now define those concepts in your own life?

Speaker 3 (34:01):
Uh? So, okay, So have they changed? Well, I guess
I guess it's slightly. And what I'm here's what I
mean by this.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
So I feel like you have such a like you
you hold women, especially black women, to such a high regard.
So the fact that you paid this how much to
them and you dressed like them, like, I feel like
in some type of way, you're tapping into your feeline side.

Speaker 3 (34:23):
Right, I guess you know, I guess I have to
answer to that question, would have to just be an
outright yes. But has it changed? I guess I never
thought here's where and this is gonna sound crazy. When
I was a kid, I was I was watching the
fastest girl in our school was raising the fastest guy
and she dusted his ass. That was the day where

(34:46):
I was like, girls can do it, empthy him if
they really want then and from that point on, I
was like, you know, so you know, having a uh
student body president, that was that was a lady or
a young lady that bother me. Having a principal high
school principal, which I did, that was that was a
lady that didn't bother me because it was it was

(35:08):
the same. It was simply saying, hey, you can do that.
When you see politicians, you know, shout out to to
what's going on politically. Now when you see politicians, you say, no, no, no, no,
that's that's a good person for the job. That's the
right person for the job. Or at least from my perspective.
Uh So, I never thought that women couldn't do anything.

(35:29):
I think that what I wish I could see more
is that more of our especially our young ladies, embraced
being lady. What we call people I'm not, I guess
almost old school, but what we call lady like and
truly exhibiting what's lady like and not having to take
on that persona. But now if I can be there,

(35:52):
A lot of a lot of dads and a lot
of dudes did not do what they needed to do
to put women in a position where they could be
lady like. So they had to say, hey, I got
to do everything, and for that, I tip my hat
and I put and I pay respect. But I think
that's in terms of femininity, that's what I think about.
In terms of masculinity, I think more dudes, the dudes.

(36:13):
Us dudes, whether you cross us or not, we catch
We catch a lot of hell. But as dudes, it's
kind of like the like they teach you, you know,
through athletics and and and through some other things that
you can be part of, be a part of it, life,
be silent as you're enduring. And so we take that
on as men, and so we catch a lot of hell.

(36:34):
And I think that you see that now when you
see hear about brothers and and and guys as well.
I don't want to limit in the black people, but
when you see here with guys being suicidal and taking
their lives, I think that's people. That's when when you
have men that are saying, hey man, it's enough, it's enough.
I'm like a powder keg over here, please do not

(36:55):
strike a match. And so I say that to say that,
I think that more men need to be able to
talk to their boys and say, Dawn, man, you know
and you know, I love you, man, you know anything
you need and I let your boy let me know
I'm here for you, or or or just being able
to say, you know, hey man, I'm hurt, you know,

(37:16):
whether you know I'm hurt because I didn't get a promotion.
I'm hurt because we don't get a chance to be that.
And so I think that that's when you say, what
I changed some things in regard to masculinity. Yes, I
would change that to say good men. Women don't look
down on men that are trying to express their vulnerability.
Now there is a fine line because you can get

(37:38):
down right bitchy and no or as they call him,
if they call him when they call him. And I
was like, I asked somebody, they said, he's say. I
was like, what they did? You just say? He's like
he's Sassin. I was like that shit is And so
you know, I don't. So it's a fine line. But

(38:00):
at the same time, I think I think men get
stronger if they're able to to purge. And what I
mean by that is, if you are carrying a heavy
ass low, you can't carry it with so much weight
facts and then you're gonna fall. But if you take
some of that weight off, You're not saying that you're
getting rid of all the weight, but if you're able
to get some of that ship to the side and

(38:22):
say I put that to the side. Now I can
take a little more, but I put some of that.
For everything that I pick up, I put something, I
put a few things down. I don't fall down like heavy.
That's just life. I can't do nothing about that. But
it's not to the point where you're gonna fall over.
And I think that if that could change for men,
then I would I would love to see that change.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
Because I can't take no nigga complaining every single day.

Speaker 3 (38:44):
It's like what now, No, No, I can't, it can't,
it can't. I just it just I just don't think
that it can be that. I think that you you are.

Speaker 2 (38:55):
Just like yeah, oh yeah, for sure, for sure.

Speaker 3 (38:58):
I mean I'm like, look, if you don't like to
do something about.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
It exactly like listen, it's hard for all of us,
so like, just do what you gotta do. Yeah, Now,
speaking of friends, does your family and friends know about
this about your crossdressing? And if so, what were their responses?

Speaker 3 (39:15):
No, nobody, nobody, nobody knows except for I felt like
I needed to be cool and clear with my wife
and say, hey, you know it's a sweetheart, and you
know this is something that that that's a part of me.
And after having some conversations, it was like, Okay, I
got it. You know, I understand. I understand that that's you.

(39:37):
I don't know. I don't understand where it came from. Yeah,
and that's a that's a fair statement to make because
I can't give a definitive explanation of where it came from.
Because if I knew, I would love to be able
to say, Okay, I know where it is. I don't.
I really don't, But that's it.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
Have you ever seen a meaning a cross dressing before
when you was a kid?

Speaker 3 (39:58):
That is No, I haven't, and I'll be honest with you,
and this is really crazy. And I've never seen one
in person.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
You never seen one in person?

Speaker 3 (40:07):
Never. Wow, never, never, if it weren't look if it
weren't for television shows and like in old talk shows
or hell the internet. That's the thing that I think
is one of the most painful things is you go
through this for a long time, especially not in that

(40:27):
part where you're saying I'm the only person in the world.
Yeah wow, You think about what happens with us and
how we are as a people, and you say, oh, man,
there's no black folks do there's no brothers to do this,
and it's like, man, that's a lie.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
Yeah, okay, So before we go down that rabbit hole,
because I have questions about that, what is your advice
that you would give to others in similar situations who
might be struggling with how to communicate their identity with
their partners.

Speaker 3 (41:03):
Be candid when at the same time you could do it.
And here's the thing, I don't think and if there's
some people who subscribe to the belief that you just
you say, it's no different than somebody sitting down saying, hey,
my name is Joe, I'm from Minneapolis, Minnesota. I'm you know,
I'm a Christian. I went to school at the University

(41:28):
of Southern California and Amacrossch. I would not view that
there say just smack them in them out, because I
think that's a lot. I think that if you have
conversations with people and then you start talking about likes
and dislikes, I think that there's a way to be subtle,
but at the same time start dropping little nuggets. You

(41:48):
got to be able to read a room. And because
if you hit somebody, it's no different than somebody hitting
you with with with some really game changing information up front,
you like, damn, can you provide a little bit of
a pushing because I want to ready for that ship,
you know, so you got to prepare me. And so
I think it's it's you kind of kind of lead
people to it gradually or leader. It's a guy being

(42:10):
a lady leader to graduate and you talk about lives
and this life. It's like the young lady says, oh
I watch Project Runway. Oh for real? Oh yeah, I
check that out, and so and and then, and I
think that this is one of the easiest ways to
do this is you start because Project Runway is nothing
but a critique. It's it's two hours of critique. You
start saying, oh, that's that's the ugly till that they

(42:31):
ain't gonna win, that you ain't and you could that
ship all wrong. And then what happens is one a
little how do you know that?

Speaker 2 (42:39):
Right?

Speaker 3 (42:39):
And then you can say, oh, well, you know, hey,
I'm I'm a fan and a fan of what you
fan close, and then that you can slowly but surely
kind of start to walk your way into a conversation.
I think you can do that. I think you can
go to places where you have to give or put
people in whether you're reading a book, you go to
a show, you to television show, a movie or something

(43:02):
like that, and you can kind of talk about things
and put people in the position where they ask you questions. Yeah,
and then if they ask you questions, then it it
invokes a response, and then somebody can start You can
kind of gage from people's body language. Hey, you know
when somebody's uncomfortable, You know, when you said something that
might have set somebody back. But then you also know

(43:24):
if somebody took some information, they go oh okay, okay,
now we can take the next step, and then you
can kind of just go through it that way. And
so I think that that helps. But just to smack
somebody in the face with it. Yeah, I don't really think.
I don't think that's the route to take because you,
I mean, be gradual, I mean you, and I always

(43:44):
say flip it around and say okay, now, how would
I want somebody to hit me with that. It's like
if somebody if somebody turned around and told you, you
know what, hey, take this out. I used to you know,
I used to be whatever. I used to do whatever
out or you could say I have really yeah check please,
I'm out. No, don't worry about the meals on me.
I'm out of here, right. Give people an opportunity to

(44:07):
adapt to a situation and engauge how they're responding to.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
You, but don't force their hand.

Speaker 3 (44:13):
No that, I don't think that's fair.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
That's your hand for exactly exactly. Now, Being that you
haven't seen a cross dresser in person in damn near
thirty five years, how do you navigate the balance between
wanting to be visible but also maintaining your privacy.

Speaker 3 (44:35):
You learn a lot of things. You learn to be very,
very servant, like I pride myself to notice and think
that other people do not notice, and so you clearly
realize like like for me, if you're trying to say
if you have a need to say, hey, I need
to get out of these four walls of this house

(44:56):
or this apartment or whatever, then you've got to be
really a you have to be able to say, okay, well,
if you want to be out that you don't want
to be seen. Then here's the thing. Back to school,
Christmas care times to go out the stories, yes, because
you're going to be seen. You pick up on one
daylight savings is you say hey, you know if it

(45:18):
gets darker around five thirty, then you would say, hey,
that's some time for me to be someplace. Now, there
are people who would say the opposite. They say, do
not go out at night, because you put yourself in
out you can put yourself in harms away. Now, I'm
not saying go to walk down a dark alley. That's
not what I'm saying. I want to be someplace that's
well lit. But you want to be someplace that's well lit.
But at the same time, there are not a lot
of people, so you can pick and choose your moments.

(45:40):
Don't go walk through the park at eight o'clock and say, oh,
I'm just I'm expressing myself. No, you're setting yourself up
for potential harm. And then the other thing about it,
you got to be careful because you also yeah, I mean, hey,
at the end of the day, you've got people who
have a certain mindset and you don't. It would be
bad for somebody to say, oh, you're soliciting, and they think, oh,

(46:01):
wait a minute, you're doing something sinister. No, no, no, I'm
not doing anything business. I'm just trying to have a
good time on my business and and walk a couple
of blocks. But yeah, but you got to I mean,
don't go in the park at night and say, oh,
I'm just I'm just saying, no, you look suspicious, you
look like you have to know good. But you become
you can figure things out. You can figure out places.

(46:22):
You can figure out certain places to go, certain places
that certain times that places are open and hey it's
the back end of the day. Okay, well hey they
close at ten. You know you would depending on what
kind of what kind of establishment is eight to ten
or downtimes, you can go and you feel I need
to be out. Partially, it's a challenge. It's a challenge

(46:48):
because it's a challenge because you still I.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
Feel like you're still isolating yourself.

Speaker 3 (46:55):
You are, you are isolating yourself, and so that's one
of the things you gotta This is where you got
to gotta say. It's like, it's like if somebody wants
to play, if somebody wants to gamble, you gotta know, Okay, well,
how much can I can I Do I gamble a
little bit? Or do I gamble a lot? You gamble
a little bit, and you say, hey, I don't get
a chance to do everything that I'd like to do,
but hey, if I like to play a little you know,

(47:17):
black jagg, I like to play a little Roulette. I'm
sitting inside of this amount to be able to say
and if I this is all I can wager, then
that's all I can wager. Now, if you've got if
you throw cass into the winner, you have a certain
type of career or you live a life that'say, if
I do what the hell I want, that you can.
It's not a gamble. You do what you want. So
even if you are spotted by somebody, or some people

(47:40):
call it if you're clocked by somebody, it doesn't matter
to you. So you have more to proverbially gamble, But yeah,
is it free? No, it's it's it's not because you
can't know, because you have to make sacrifices.

Speaker 2 (47:55):
That you find time to fit it in when you
can fit it in, right, But because of the isolation,
has this impact that you're mental health?

Speaker 3 (48:04):
It's it's it's a lonely it can be a lonely existence.
So has an impact of my mental health? I would
say no, but it is a lonely existence because again,
you don't it's not like you can you know, somebody
you can say, hey, I'm going to hoop today at
two from two to five, can you go?

Speaker 4 (48:19):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (48:19):
I can go? Okay, I meet your depart I meet
you to the gym, or I'm going to work out today.
Can you go? Yeah, I can go. It's not you
don't have that. So it is a very lonely existence.
And especially if you don't have someone in your life
who can say, oh, okay, hey, you make an agreement
with them and they say, hey, you know three for
from from three to six, you can you can you

(48:41):
can dress as your other self, okay, cool, and I'll
be here and you know that's your agreement and it's
so fine. Then that's not that's not that's helpful, because
I think that you're a person who have who have
a situation like that and say, hey, I got the
best of both worlds because I get a chance to
do what i'd like to do. But I within reason,
and I think you may if we all make deals,

(49:03):
and you make deals to say, hey, I can have
three hours on Saturday. Okay, cool, I think three hours
on Saturday. But that's that's that's not my story. So
I think it's I I often think that it's a
lonely existence. But I'd rather be lonely in my truth
than than than to be around a lot of people

(49:25):
and live a lot and live a complete and total lot.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
That's a fact. That was a bar right there. But
because it's so, it can be lonely at times. Have
you ever tried to fight it?

Speaker 3 (49:36):
I have, I have and and and there is a
common term in anybody that's that's that's cross stressor. And
if they've been uh, if it's been a part of
the left for a lot has done something with it's
called purging. That's where you take all your ship and
throw it away. You said, I'm never doing the skin.
I pray to the good lord, Lord, take this from me.
I don't want to do this. Please and thank you,

(49:56):
thank you very much. I am done. And you might
be for You might make it a month, you might
make it a year, you might make it two years.
It's gonna call you back. And when it calls you back,
and it ain't gonna be gentle, it's gonna be schul stirring,
where you're gonna say, Okay, I've got I need to
I need I need some time, I need some time

(50:18):
to spend where I can indulge in this space. And yeah,
and and that call is not it's rough. It's rough
because you didn't have to say, oh yeah, it's it's brutal,
it's good, you know it's it's brutal. And so you
just you have times that you say, no, I need,
I need to do this, and you have to make
time for it. And so yeah, yeah, so I've done

(50:42):
that and I think I've had four purchase and you
don't forget. I can tell you I can measure it's
for because I can tell you every place, every every
dumpster I took my stuff to.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
Wow there one it was the one particular person that
was like painful for you.

Speaker 3 (51:03):
All of them. They all steam. They all steam because
and imagine if a person said, a person where a
sneaker hitd Yeah, and they said, look, I love sneakers.
This is what I do. And then they got to
a point, let's say that they were they collect a
sneaker since they were eighteen nineteen years old, and then
they get to thirty five and they feel like, well,

(51:25):
this is silly. I don't know why I do this.
I got that makes sense to have all these sneakers.
It's just stupid. I should get rid of them. And
then they said I'm just gonna sell them, or I'm
just gonna give them away, or I'm just gonna donate them.
And then they look up and they see and they realized,
you know what, I was really passionate about my sneakers. Yeah,
my sneakers meant something to me. And then you realize

(51:46):
you gave away some pairs that you can't even get anymore. Yeah,
that's when it sets in and you go, I'm starting
to lose things that are near and dear to me,
and I can't find it. I can't find this anymore.
This isn't made. This may in fact sure to put
the store to make this anymore. I had one of
the last ones. Uh, yeah, it doesn't come in this

(52:06):
color anymore. You yet it's painful to damn.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
I can't even imagine because if I'm thrown away something
that's my favorite, something that I cherish like that, I
would be crying.

Speaker 3 (52:18):
Yeah, exactly. And I've never never cried, but I have had.
This is painful, like it's samed. It really really stings.
It's yeah, it's think that's that's the one said.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
Yeah, Now, I know you mentioned that you haven't seen
a cross dresser in person, but do you connect with
anybody online from the community I have?

Speaker 3 (52:41):
I have, and and so it's and it's been interesting
because I've met some really some really cool people. And
the thing about it is, this is one of the
I've met people from all walks of life. Right, I've
met doctor's attorneys and ineers, teachers, uh, professors at universities,

(53:05):
a person who's a television reporter. A matter of fact,
crazy part about it, I grew up. I grew up
in the side of the person a television reporter for
And I've seen this person traveled to this particular city,
and have seen this person on television, and you would
never know. And that's the thing you you don't know,
You literally don't know.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
But do you think you can spot them out?

Speaker 3 (53:25):
Though?

Speaker 4 (53:28):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (53:28):
Spot them out? You mean in terms of what.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
Like you think you can spot out another cross dresser?

Speaker 3 (53:33):
Absolutely not, m absolutely not, absolutely not. Sure can't because
and the thing of now, and if you're leaving trails,
then then I might get I might have an inclination
just to say, yeah, if you're dropping clues, then I'll
catch on. I'll catch on. But if you're if you can,
if you can mask it like most of us masters can't,

(53:56):
you wouldn't have a clue. You you wouldn't have a clue.
And I think, and I'll be honest with you, I
think I would have I'm willing to bet you a
chrisp Bill see that. Brothers probably hide at the best.
M hm ya wow, Yeah, for sure, for sure. Because

(54:18):
we have to be a bunch of things. Let me
think about it. We gotta be we gotta be strong,
we gotta be upstanding, we gotta be this, we gotta
be hard. You know. We the same people that's bobbing
our heads. They can recite the damn the every song
from every every every hit jay Z ever made, every hit,
every hit Killer Mike ever made, every hit t I

(54:41):
ever made, every hit podcast can recite them all. Live it,
walk it, do it. But happen to have this little
part of that personality that you would never know about
and hide they do. I can hide it like nobody's business.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
So that's why I wanted to do this conversation with
you and also just do the Men series because I
just want black men to just feel comfortable and just be.
And I think that because of so many different factors,
including our own people, they make it. We make it
very hard for black men just to be a man,
just to be wherever you want to be in that moment.
And I think that's very unfortunate.

Speaker 3 (55:25):
Well, yeah, because we because I think that, And I
appreciate yourself first and foremost me let me do I
appreciate you saying what you just said. Uh, And and
I'll add to that by saying, because we have to
be so many things, and then the media portrays us
as being something, and then you fact you have some
sensors who'll say things that aren't the best. And then,

(55:49):
let's be honest, then you got some brothers that actually,
it's like you brought that shit to life because you're
you're doing everything that they said, so you're not helping
those that are trying to say, hey, let me be,
let me be all the things that I need to
be and then some. But we don't. And it doesn't
allow for flexibility. It's a very rigid a good let

(56:10):
me say that's a good black man or or or
they call a BMW a black man, a good black
man working, a gb the a g BMW have a
very good black man working has a very rigid expectation.
It doesn't have any flexibility. It is it is expected you,
so you should be this. It is cookie cutter as hell. Yeah,

(56:33):
and it doesn't allow room for brothers to breathe. And
so I think that being under that, it's like it's
it's like it's a science experiment that if you put
you put a magnifying glass, how's it going to put
a magnifying glass on something and basically riot because it
gets so hot. That's what it's like to have that

(56:53):
magnifying glass on you and sitting up under that, up
under this proverbial sun as you are just getting I'm cooked.
And it's like but hey, and you can't say anything
that's considered to be outside the norm or else the
labels and the tag start coming, and then it's like, well, hey,
I might as wenna shut up, And so you look

(57:15):
around and it's like, well, damn, I really can't say anything.
And the crazy part about it is that studies actually
show that the older men get men start to talk less.
So imagine if you've already been told be silent, be strong, walk,
do this, which all things. I got no problem with that. Again,
I'm not trying to be bitch you, but I'm just
saying you can do all these things, and then you

(57:36):
start to get the facets of your life. When you
stop this, it's natural to stop communicating verbally as much.
So now you have gone through life with all this
stuff in your shoulders. So going back to metaphorically what
I was saying before, if you keep taking on burden
and taking on weight and taking on weight and taking
on weight and you don't shed or have a place
to talk about the things that you're carrying, you off

(57:58):
right in the ground. And so that's why I think
you see a lot of a lot of black men. Basically,
I mean, look at look at the look at the
mortality race for black men. Yeah, I average average black
man is supposed to live like seventy to seventy two
everyge white man just being.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
Yeah, damnar ninety. Yeah, you know, you make a good point.
I want I don't want to give too much away,
but I feel like I have an older person in
my life that I just recently met, and this older
person doesn't know that I know that they are gay.
And where this person is from, being that he's an

(58:32):
older black man. You know how men can be now
with their sexuality. That was an absolute no when this
person was growing up. And you know, I'll call this
person and check up on him, make sure they're good
and stuff, and you know, it just pains me that,
like I know that he's masking right like, because I
know what masking feels like, and I just sometimes I

(58:53):
just think I think of him when I have conversations
with men like yourself or just men in general, and
it's just like, damn, like it really sucks when you
just cannot be yourself sure true, and it makes me sad.

Speaker 3 (59:07):
It is sad because what the very it now becomes
very likely that this person who you obviously have a
fondness for right will will will leave this earth not
having in his true self and which ultimately makes that
person unhappy.

Speaker 4 (59:22):
Right.

Speaker 2 (59:23):
And as I speak more and more to him, I
can hear him getting sicker and stuff, and I'm just like,
and I'm pretty sure to have something that has to
do with his old age. But it's just like, damn like,
I just want you to be able to just fully
be able to be yourself when you feel like at
all times.

Speaker 3 (59:37):
You know. But and the sad part about that is
that the best years that that person would have had
to be his true self, let's be honest, are gone. Yeah.
And it's not me, I'm not being morbid. It's just
saying it is person that's older and they're getting sicker
than your best years to be your true self gone.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
Your best years are behind you exactly.

Speaker 3 (59:59):
Yeah. So you got you got, You got more stories
to tell about a life that you about a false
life than you do stories about your truth.

Speaker 4 (01:00:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
Yeah. So with that being said, what advice would you
give to younger black men who are just beginning to
explore cross dressing.

Speaker 3 (01:00:19):
Be be honest, be respectful, be respectful of yourself, of
your race, of your women, of the of of the
concept of women h b B. Be safe, Be be
mindful of where you go and what you're doing, and

(01:00:42):
who you share this with. You cannot tell everybody, and
somebody can say, well, look at what you're doing. It's like, yeah,
but I got some things in place that allow people
not to know. Yeah, who who I, who I am
to to to to a t do you know things
about my personality? Yes, by way of this discussion, yes,

(01:01:02):
but nobody's gonna walk on me and be like it
was you.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
And I'm like, oh no, listen, we had a nice,
thorough conversation.

Speaker 3 (01:01:09):
Yeah, so we had a conversation. No, you don't so,
I but you. And that being said, there was, and
if I could be candid and be truthful to kind
of give everybody some insight about the person leading this conversation,
You're talking about an amazing lady who said, you know what,
I'm trying to find out something about my people, and

(01:01:31):
I'm trying to expose my people to some to a
greater portion of us and things and topics that we
don't get to talk about. So I say that to
say that there was no way that I was going
to share this and be candid with somebody who was
not going to take my situation into consideration to say, hey,
you know, I'm going to put this in a perspective

(01:01:52):
and in a way that it will keep you safe.
But at the same time, together we can we can
get some information to people that lets them know what
there is a there is a strong, strong, strong level
of normalcy. Yes, there's no nothing sinister. This is not
some I don't even when people say, oh, you have

(01:02:13):
a like if somebody were to say you have an
alternative lifestyle, I don't, I don't and I don't even know.
And then I think the bigger question than to be
asked is well, what exactly is that? Because you could
be putting in some people who who live very normal
and and in a buck and a bucket that they
would say, I don't think that's appropriate or applicable, because
my life is not. We all have alternatives. We have

(01:02:35):
an alternative to be a bunch of stuff, you know.
So every if that's the case that everybody truly lives
an alternative life style, there's no alternatives. Do something opposite of what.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
You do, Yes, that's just that you choose not to
do it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:45):
So let's if you take words it words mean. With
words mean, you try to bend them and make them
mean something else. But at the end of the day,
words right. So if that's the case, then that's then
you know, some people need to go back and do
some self checking. But getting back to the point, you
got this amazing young lady who said, Hey, I want
to talk about some things that are relevant to people,

(01:03:08):
and when and wherever possible relevant to my people and
get people's minds open. And so that is why I
felt comfortable enough to have this conversation with this young
lady that that's talking with me. So she's amazing, and
quite honestly, if she weren't, then I would say, you
know what, let me just shut up and keep my
keep my little story mind.

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
Now I appreciate you because I told you off the
air that initially, when I was looking for I was
doing research on this topic. Your story was something that
I was looking forward to because I felt like more
men can probably relate to it because of the stigma
that comes with it. And when we was going back
and forth for your emails, I'm like, damn it, fee
like I've been knowing this man for like a long
time because it just felt so casual. And I am

(01:03:54):
thankful for my previous guest because I do feel like
even though it's the same storyline, you know, it can
happen in different ways. So I like the fact that
you did email me and you know you want you
want to share your perspective because I believe that people
can be able to relate to both. So I really
appreciate you for reaching out.

Speaker 3 (01:04:13):
Yeah. Absolutely, And the previous guests, you know, there's no
there's no shade, there's there's being thrown or anything like that.
It's just I wanted to be able to say that
the topic is, they're so little on the topic. I
didn't want some I wouldn't want somebody to listen to
that particular episode of your show and say, oh, yeah,

(01:04:34):
that's what I thought. Yeah it's so it's because it's
not that and I think that it's and so to
the greatest extent to say, I don't want to use
the word normalcy because that that particularly individual's life is normal.
That's their normal. Absolutely with this particular concept, but from
a more I know the word that I use from

(01:04:55):
a more conservative perspective, it does exist, and that level
of that level of conservativeness does exist, and there are
people who say, hey, this is not something that I've
blocked to everybody, but it is something that I have
to do to make me feel whole. So yeah, yeah,

(01:05:18):
again it's it's a different perspective, but it's a more
conservative perspective.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
Yeah, no, I agree, I totally agree. And last, but
not least, what would you have wanted to hear when
you were younger?

Speaker 4 (01:05:33):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (01:05:33):
That I wasn't by myself. Hmm, that wasn't by myself.
I would have I would have. I think it's interesting
you asked that question. I think about that with some
sort of regularity and say how or or asked the question.
How helpful would it have been to be able to
have somebody that I could say, hey, can I tell

(01:05:56):
you something? Hey me, I like to do that too,
And not not I mean somebody that now not appear.
It's somebody that could have been older, somebody who could
have said hey, like a mentor it's just somebody to say, hey, well,
when you want to talk about that, then we can
talk about that. That way, I don't go through this

(01:06:18):
psychological roller coaster where I'm saying, oh, it's okay, No,
it's not okay. Oh it's okay. No, it's not okay.
Oh it's not And you go through that, and then
you have to and and and prayer for me. I
hope that that people get to the point where they
realize they can end up on a high and say hey,
it is okay and there's no there's no there's no

(01:06:40):
pitfall as long as you're not doing anything that puts
you in harm's way. It's now you have to figure
out how to navigate your way through that quote end quote.
It's okay. Portion of whatever you deem is okay, however
you deem it to be okay. But it's it's one
of those things you got to have to figure out
because it can be. It's rough. And I you know

(01:07:02):
a boy about the grace of God. There there go
on to be able to get to this point and say,
all right, I got this thing figured out. Are there
are there more things I'd like to do? Sure? There
are are there experiences that I'd like to have. Absolutely
would it be cool if I could say, hey, I
can go to a mall if you will, and and

(01:07:23):
just have a day where I shop and say hey,
I was put together so well that I was able
to experience this and excuse me that I'm I had
a day or I had a few days to be
able to get sure. I'd love to do that, but
that's probably the likelihood that happens is probably slim. But

(01:07:44):
just to be able to have had that, O Gena
could say, sorry, you feel no problem, okay, wey, we
talked about this. It's all right by yourself. You're not
the only one. And I hope you feel that would
have been that would have been amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
I'm just curious what would you What would you do
if any try to hit on you?

Speaker 3 (01:08:05):
You know, you just kind of say thank you and
move on.

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
But to think about it, because I feel like you
would be like, nah, nigga, this ain't that.

Speaker 3 (01:08:14):
You don't see the thing about it? No, Okay, So
now it's great, Okay, great, great, great segue, A great statement.
You gotta be mindful now because you remember, you can't
act out because if you act out, you could get
a situation that you really don't want you could be
it could get really ugly really fast. You just kind

(01:08:37):
of have to say, you know, thank you, or you
have to politely ignore and you have to move on.
But it's not a thing of like, don't push up
with me, and why why why would you get into that.
There are times where you gotta let it go. Yeah,
that's in life. So the times where you gotta let
some shit go where you gotta I'm not getting into
that with you, but you gotta just kind of move on.

(01:08:59):
It has as I'll say this, I've been funked at before,
and I have had I've had some what women might
refer to as cat call because and I say and
I say this because when I say that, there is
a transformation that happens, there's a transformation that happened. I

(01:09:21):
look nothing like my I look nothing like my male self, nothing, nothing,
it actually yeah, it's it totally changes. And so it's
kind of funny because a friend of mine, that a
near and dear friend of mine who is also a

(01:09:42):
gross stresser, and in a picture exchange, said Okay, now
send me the picture of you, and I said that's me,
and I was like, no, no, no, seriously, send me
the picture of you. He said that's me. And it
was funny because he's like, Okay, that's kind of scary
because I would like I might try to ho and
I was like, man, that's blannering. And he's like wow.

(01:10:03):
He said no, he said, you see since you and
I said and he says that, he said, you put
together really well. And I was like, well, you observed nothing.
You kind of figure out what the sentuating you know,
we're putting place, and you kind of you got kind of.

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
On and listen, y'all. This is probably the first guest
and like I want to say, ever, I do not
know what this person looks like.

Speaker 3 (01:10:28):
For now. For now, we cut a side deal.

Speaker 2 (01:10:34):
We cut a side deal, but I just want to
put it out there so he might run up on
me and be like, this is.

Speaker 3 (01:10:41):
So and so right right, but but the side but
the side deal has been cut and will be offered.

Speaker 2 (01:10:47):
Yes, okay, perfect, and the.

Speaker 3 (01:10:50):
Side deal side deal is private, but the side private.

Speaker 2 (01:10:53):
Yes, yes, Well, I think this was an amazing conversation.
I'm really happy that we were able.

Speaker 3 (01:10:59):
To do this well. I certainly appreciate it. And I
hope that that anyone that chooses to listen. Uh, if
you are a cross dresser, I hope that you realize
that you're not on, You're not by yourself, especially for
black when I hope you realize that you're not by yourself,
that there is a lot of decency and in what
we do, and then there's nothing bad. You're not less than,

(01:11:23):
you're not demented, you're not sick. It's just being honest
with yourself and saying, hey, so this is something that's
the part of me. If you're not, if you're a
young lady who is it's in a relationship with somebody
you think might be or or could I guess, or
anybody that could possibly be in a relationship and you

(01:11:45):
ultimately find out that they are a cross dresser. I
would just hope that you would have some compassion and
realize that if you met a really great guy, if
you met a really great guy and that guy stole
your heart, and that guy was every thing that you
ever thought that you would want a partner or a
spouse and you and he hit you with this, my

(01:12:09):
request is that you remember that guy, because that guy
will be even better knowing that he can. And even
if it's something you say, hey, I don't want to
see it, but I accept this about you, but I
just don't want to participate. I don't want to see it,
that guy will literally feel like he owes you life

(01:12:32):
because he knows what it's like to walk around and here,
he knows what it's like to walk around interpretation and
not be able to say, I can't be my whole self.
So quite honestly, I think a woman that gets a
cross dress a heteroscial cross stress. I want to play
emphasis on that. Somebody says, hey, no, my my social
preferences women, I have no desire to be with anybody

(01:12:55):
else but you. Or but a woman gets a really
great mate because suddenly you start to realize, wait a minute,
we can talk about shootings, we can talk about dresses,
we talk about perfume. Now the request becomes okay, now
let it be full circle. So if I start talking
about the basketball and football, don't trip right right it
be open to it. So it's it's you know, it's

(01:13:17):
it's give and take. And I think that women who
have mates that are cross dresses, and you can look
this up, this is, this is this has written in
a lot of places. They say that they realize that
they have they have great spouses because those men are
sensitive to things that women experience, because they have a
part of them that allows them to say, you know what,

(01:13:37):
I get that. That makes sense to me. I understand
that there's a running joke that some women say. They
say that women will say that, hey, we run home
to take off our braws and and shape where and
yet my husband finds a relaxed the wrong and put
his on.

Speaker 2 (01:13:52):
Right right right.

Speaker 3 (01:13:54):
So it's I think that that's one of the things
that that if the women run into that you haven't
you might say, hey, that wasn't ideal. I didn't expect this, Okay,
I get that that's fair. Nobody says, oh, I'm looking
for a guy who's this, this, this, this, this, and
across theirs. That's probably not on a lot of women's list.
But if you find out that that guy is my

(01:14:15):
my hope is that a woman would say, Okay, talk
to me about this and let me, let me get
an opportunity to decide, uh, if this clicks, but not
to forget. If this dude was amazing and he was like,
oh your girlfriend's oh girl, he's this nicely and he's
putting it down and opening doors and he's this and that.

(01:14:38):
Oh I just never met a gentleman like this, and
he's so caring and he's doing well, and you know
he and take care of these kids, and he's just
say he's really compassiony, he's great with kids, and he
wants to have kids. And then you happen to find
out that that that he has been across this. I hope,
especially with the day, that with the way things are

(01:15:00):
in this day and age, as hard as it is
for women, are women to say, hey, we're meeting good mate.
I hope that a woman will say, you know what,
this does not cancel this deal. I just learned something
that I need to be open to and it's okay,
it's cool, and and protect this privacy. That's what I
would saying.

Speaker 1 (01:15:19):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:15:20):
Well, like I said, thank you so much, I really
appreciate this conversation. And I know I always tell my
listeners that make sure you share your storyline because you
never know how it can be someone else's lifeline. So
I really do appreciate you trusting me, yeah, trusting me
and allowing me to be a part of your journey
because I know this will resonate with a lot of
our listeners.

Speaker 3 (01:15:41):
Thank you so much. I appreciate you again and your
team and being able to get a message out about
a number of topics that will really resonate.

Speaker 2 (01:15:52):
With people, yes and to the listeners. If you have
any questions, comments or concerns, please make sure to email
me a hello at the psgpodcast dot com. And until
next time, everyone, Later you're gonna say.

Speaker 3 (01:16:05):
Bye, oh bye. Everybody. Take care.

Speaker 2 (01:16:18):
The Professional Homegirl Podcast is a production of the Black
Effect Podcast Network. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the
iHeartRadio app, app a podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show,
and you can connect with me on social media at
the PHG podcast

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}MEN SERIES: My Journey With Cross Dressing Part 2