March 11, 2025 • 58 mins
In this episode of The Professional Homegirl Podcast, Eboné sits down with the brilliant mind behind the Black Barbie documentary. Her guest shares her journey of bringing this powerful story to life, exploring the cultural impact of Black Barbie, Black representation in the toy industry, and the importance of diversity in media. From her personal connection to the story to the challenges of documentary filmmaking, Eboné's guest offers an inspiring look at how this groundbreaking film came to be. Don't miss this insightful conversation about identity, creativity, social change, and the lasting influence of Black Barbie.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome one and all to the Professional Homegirl Podcast. Before
we begin today's episode, we want to remind you that
the views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those
of the host and guests and are intended for educational
and entertaining purposes. In this safe space, no question is
off limits because you never know how someone's storyline can
be your lifeline. The Professional Homegirl Podcast is here to
(00:22):
celebrate the diverse voices, stories and experiences of women of color,
providing a platform for authentic and empowering conversations. There will
be some key king, some tears, but most importantly a
reminder that tough times don't last, but professional homegirls do
enjoy the show.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Welcome back to the Professional Homegirl Podcast. I hope all
is cute ishagara Ebina here and today I am sitting
down with an incredible storyteller and fer who spent thirteen
years bringing Black Barbie a documentary to life.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Now.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
This powerful film not only celebrates the impact of Black Barbie,
but also unpacks deeper conversations around representation, identity, and beauty standards.
My guests work has been recognized in a major way,
earning her an NAACP Award. For Outstanding Documentary, and today
she's here to share her journey with us. We'll dive
(01:25):
into what inspired this film, the legacy of her aunt, Beulah,
who worked at Mattel for forty years, and the challenges
of bringing the story to the screen, and how Black
Barbie continues to shape the way we see ourselves. So
get ready, y'all, because the history of Black Barbie starts now.
All write to my guests, thank you so much for
(01:45):
being on a show. How you doing, How you feeling?
Speaker 3 (01:49):
I'm doing great?
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Okay, Now, before we dive in, I already told you
this off the air, but I want to tell you
on the air. I want to give you your flowers
for two things. First Off, congratulations your beautiful wedding.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Thank you appreciated elected all the flowers there.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Yeah, and major congratulations on winning an NAACP Award for
our Standing Documentary. How did that feel?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Surreal? Yeah, one hundred percent surreal because when we got
to the table at the awards ceremony, we were like
in the back and so for us we were like, oh,
that's indicative of maybe not winning, right, So we were like, okay,
(02:37):
get a little bit more champagne. We gonna chill and
eat and you know, have a good time. So when you.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Know they already everything is a sign, you know, that's it.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
That's it. We're like, we're good. It was nice to
be nominated, and you know, we're gonna try to see
who we can see and have a good time tonight
at the show, at the ceremony, and so then when
they announced it, we were both just sitting there, like,
me and Aliyah the producer, were sitting there like and
(03:11):
then she starts like screaming, you know, and then Shondaland
are Alison and Ebane from Shondaland were there and they
were like, get up and go, and we were like,
oh yeah, right right yeah, So it was a moment.
You know, I don't think I'll ever forget.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
And it took you thirteen years to complete this documentary, right.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Yeah, it took thirteen years for Black Barbie the documentary
to get to Netflix and via Shondaland. You know, so
I think that's just a story and never giving up.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah, were there moments when you want to like walk
away from it, from everything?
Speaker 3 (03:57):
I mean yeah, I mean the nose just kept coming,
the you know, the thoughts about the creative kept coming,
and I remember, you know, having a conversation with someone
(04:20):
and they were not seeing how the puppet animation with
dolls and playing with dolls and the kids, how it
could all come together. And I remember just being like, well,
you lack imagination facts.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
And the funny thing about that is that goes viral
on Instagram? What goes viral the Barbie dolls? Like re
enacting certain movie scenes and stuff.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
You know, Yeah, that's it. It's definitely something that is
already and has been playing out in the zeitgeist before
our film, before the Barbie film. People are out here
doing animation that are that's fun and amazing, you know,
(05:09):
for lack of a better word, they're they're out there
doing that. So for me, it just made sense to
do it in the film, to play with the dolls,
playing with Barbies, you know, I got to do that
in the film.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Which we'll touch on later because you don't even like
Barbie dolls growing up, No, you can miss me with
all of that.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
I was not checking for it.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Right, How has this how has created a documentary changed
the way you viewed storytelling?
Speaker 3 (05:38):
You know what? I you, I just have to say kudos,
you know, I This was my first documentary. I'm primarily
a writer director, so I'm in the scripted world of things,
and so documentary is hard.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
I been hearing it a lot, a lot lately. Why
is it so hard?
Speaker 3 (06:00):
I mean, there's levels to it, right, you know, there's
levels to it. In the way of one, it's hard
to you know, get the financing you need if you're
an independent person, you spend a lot of you know,
it was a lot of unpaid time thirteen years, you know, yes,
(06:22):
just believing in the story, believing in the vision of
the story, and then having people who believe in me
and this vision of the story and the story itself,
you know, helping me to keep going, like you know,
(06:43):
it was bigger than me. And I felt like, you know,
in a world if I didn't continue to press for this,
that I'd be letting a lot of people down, from
my family to you know, my Aunt May's story, to
Kitty Stacy's. The more I kind of pushed it out
there and the responses I was getting in those rooms
(07:04):
just it made it even more obvious that the story
needed to be told, it needed to happen. So, you know,
it's challenging on that end. Of the spectrum of you know,
trying to get some form of financing to put some
production value into the project. You know, have it looked like,
(07:28):
you know, you did. You're trying to do something. You
got a visual something going on. It is visual storytelling,
you know, films in and of itself, and so you know,
you have that, and then distribution was a little challenging
as well. And then just story. You don't have a script, right,
(07:52):
and so you're you're hoping that you're asking the right questions,
you know, and you can't put words in people's mouth.
At least that's not how I operate as a documentary director.
You know. I like for it to be conversational. I
(08:13):
like for you know, people to just talk to me.
Let's let's have a conversation. And I'm listening and I
have questions. But sometimes what they're telling me, as I
hear their story, as I'm actively listening to what they're
telling me, that's more compelling than the questions that I
(08:34):
have here, you know, so I'm like, let's deep dive
talk more about that. I wasn't expecting that, you know,
so actually trying to create and so it's one of
those things. Also where story wise, beginning, middle end, what's
(08:57):
you know, the art, what's the plot, what's and how
do you get this information out and an entertaining way
hopefully you know? Yeah, So it was a challenge.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
One thing I will say that I really enjoy about
the documentary is I think you did a really good
job with navigating between the critical and the celebratory moments
of Black Barbie. Because there were times where I would say,
I am Barbie, like come on now, like y'all treat
Black Barbie like how y'all would treat black people in
life like before she became a part of the universe.
(09:32):
So was that challenging for you to be able to
like showcase both narratives.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
I mean, it was always something that I was very
you know, talking with my collaborators too. We all had
this understanding of it being a balance, right, you know,
the thematically when we're talking about representation, right, you know, identity,
(10:01):
seeing yourself in the world and what is communicated back
to us, no matter how affirmed we are, you know,
having this understanding of balancing thematically how you know, dark
if we really kind of looked at it, what story
(10:23):
we would be telling could be really dark? And bleak
about what it means to not see yourself, you know,
And we knew it was Barbie, and so on one hand,
we're anticipating people want to walk in and see something fluffy,
you know, fluffy, cute, you know. And on the other hand,
(10:49):
we knew we needed to talk about these these these
things that matter to these themes that matter to black
women and black girls. And so it's like, how do
we get this balance of darkness and light knowing that,
you know, And one of the approaches we just took
to it was thinking in terms of at least for me,
(11:11):
I thought of it as like it's life.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yeah, right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
It's life, like bad things happen, and you know, we
don't have to dwell in that space. We can acknowledge that.
Let be a witness as our you know, subject testifies
and you know, and then move on to the celebration.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah, you know. It was a scene that you did
where I think a book came out or something, and
it was like showcasing all the different things that happened
within Barbie and nowhere in the book they mentioned black Barbie.
I'm like, that was a moment.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
It was a moment I think we were all really surprised.
You know, I think it's something and it just kind
of speaks to being in a place where you're you know,
constantly told that you know, black Barbie matters to Mattel,
Black Barbie matters in general, the legacy of that, of
(12:24):
how Black Barbie came to be, the women that you know,
we're able to make that happen, all of that matters.
But then in something so you know, kind of crucial
to the history of Mattel on that time line in
the book, we see that Black Barbie's nowhere to be found.
(12:47):
And it's these competing narratives where if it is a
legacy that you acknowledge and respect, and if it is
important exactly if it is important, then why is she missing?
Why is she not included? Why is she not seen
in the Barbie movie? Why isn't she not you know,
(13:12):
her presence is And so for me, it's competing. It's
you're saying one thing, but you're showing me another.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Did you get any resistance from Mattel elementary.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
No, not at all. You know, yeah, it's not a
Mattel film, But.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
I want to eat Barbie dolls now, yeah, by.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
You know, it wasn't even something we wanted to do
in the sense of I was just like, this film
is not about Mattel. They just so happened to be
the big corporation behind this particular doll, you know, but
it is, you know, just kind of shedding the light
(13:58):
on the importance of play. Yeah, and what's at stake
for black women and black girls, you know, when they're
not really thought of in an intentional, meaningful way when
it comes to the content and the toys that they
play with. While at the same time celebrating my aunt
(14:23):
view La May, Kitty Black Perkins, and Stacey McBride Derby.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yeah, so growing up, what was it about Barbie that
didn't resonate with you because you hated Barbie dolls or
just dolls in general.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
I hated dolls in general. No, So it's funny because
I just hated dolls in general. To think in terms
of as a little girl, I didn't have the language
that I do now to kind of really put into
wards what it felt like as a little girl and
(15:00):
not really gravitating towards the things that they were telling
me I should be gravitating towards as a little girl.
If that makes sense I hate the color pink, like
I was just like, I don't. I love the color blue,
like blue, that's my favorite color, nice like deep cyan,
(15:22):
like royal blue, lake ooh that was I think, yeah exactly,
But pink, I'm kind of like, no, you can. I
don't know pink. And dolls were like that as well.
It was like, Okay, I have a baby doll to
change the diapers, to feed to cuck cuck coo, nurture, nurture,
(15:46):
and then the fashion doll came along. And I don't
really consider myself in any way, shape or form, any
kind of like fashion forward person, and so for me,
it felt very vapid, and I was like, I don't care.
As long as I'm comfortable, I don't care. And so
(16:06):
I wasn't looking into like trying to dress the doll
or marry the doll to ken or you know that
type of imagination that you know. As I made the
documentary talking to people, it was really, you know, interesting
to see how they actually played with their dolls and
imagining all kinds of different things outside of yeah, yeah,
(16:31):
outside of the things that I felt the dolls were
trying to communicate to me that I kind of rejected
as a girl. So it was just kind of rejecting
all of these things that I was told meant you know,
you were a little girl, and really trying to step
into who I was and the things that I liked
(16:53):
as a girl.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
You know, you know, it's a good point because I
have a lot of friends who didn't like Barbie, and
one of the main reason why they didn't like Barbie
is because they felt like she didn't resonate with their
own experiences or I didn'ty. So I think that what
you're saying is very valid because a lot of girls
didn't see themselves in Barbie.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Yeah, I mean I didn't, and I just you know,
I'd rather be reading a book. Yeah. I can draw,
so I did a lot of drawing. I write, So
I did a lot of writing, you know, poems and lyrics,
and you know, I was a creative person. I like
to play outside, riding bikes and skateboards and you know,
(17:35):
playing remote control cars or transformers, you know, trivia games.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Like I was interactive, yes.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
And I'm still that person. Like I like activities. I like,
you know, invite me to dinner, to sit down with
a bunch of people and I'm like, oh, can't be
go bowling? Can we?
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Like this is fun?
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Let's do something active that we can kind of eat
around mingle talk. You know. Our rehearsal dinner for the
wedding was axe thrawing. You know, we like ordered some pizzas.
It was like bring your own food. So we ordered
some pizzas, some chicken wyomi. Yeah, and they had alcohol
(18:21):
so and or no they didn't actually, so you can
bring your own alcohol. They had like beer, so be
while alcohol, order some beer and throw some axes. They
let us some knives and you know what I was like, yes, yea, yeah,
like I was thriving in that environment. You know, So
(18:44):
I really do. I like to play games. I like activities.
I like puzzles stuff like that. And for me, it
wasn't necessarily dolls weren't a puzzle. They weren't active, you know,
I didn't. What was really funny was that I did
get like a kitchen.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Like a Barbie.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Yeah, no, it wasn't Barbie. It was just like a
kitchen set, you know, where you had all these play
foods like pizza.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
And hamburgers and stuff.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Yeah, like that you could cook and it came with
like pots and pans and you had stoves and we
would play drive through window with that. And I didn't
mind that because it felt like culinary even though it
was a role that it felt like a little girl
should be in. Like as you grow up to be
a woman, you're gonna be into fashion. You're gonna like
(19:41):
have babies to nurture, and you're gonna have to cook
for the baby. Like there was something very different, I
guess for me for that toy because it did feel
active and put the latics on there.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Tomatoes, Yeah, so active.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
And I like to cook As an adult person, I
enjoy cooking and coming up with my own recipes and
baking and you know, making elaborate dinners and kind of
like hosting people. I do enjoy that. So that was
a toy that I did gravitate towards that felt kind
of like domesticating women.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
You know.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
So did you get the inspiration and to create Black
Barbie when you move into your Beulah house.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
That's exactly it. Like that's one of the themes you
know that we kind of shore up just by having
that conversation is kind of like intergenerational conversation because you know,
my great aunt if you will. You know, she's of
a certain age and much older than myself. And so
(20:47):
just sitting down to talk.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
To her, yeah, and I felt like that was so cool.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
It was really cool to think in terms of hearing
her talk about like there's something about lived history, yes,
and it's just details that you won't really find, like
details and perspectives that you really won't find in you know,
your history books, right exactly. They it's you know, And
(21:18):
so it was really fascinating to me to hear her
talk about Barbie through this lens, this you know, octogenarian
black woman's lens, you know, and who Barbie was to
her and what it would mean for you know, the
company Mattel to make an actual black Barbie and to
(21:43):
have an understanding of what it meant to then see
them not necessarily make a black Barbie, but a friend
of Barbie that was black.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Right, and she wasn't technically a Barbie.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Right, right. And so to hear you know what that
meant firsthand and into crazy and that experience, you know,
I was just sitting there listening to her being like
you were on that first Barbie line. I mean, that
was like one of the first haadcock moments like huh,
(22:16):
that's wild what And then she's like, we were like,
why not make a black barbie? Why not make a
barbie that looks like me? And that kind of is
like the light bulb moment for me where I'm like,
you know, I'm a filmmaker.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Right, she's baby.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
I don't know what that means. Right. And So through
that conversation, you know, I got the lived history from
her perspective of you know, the doll that literally put
Mattel on the map. Yeah, as a toy company, and
(22:58):
you know, she introduced me to this world of like
and I say, you know, I introduced her to my
world of filmmaking.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
You know, I really want to give your aunt her flowers,
because not only did she play a pivotal role in
representation and toys, but also in the workplace, Like she
really laid the groundwork, groundwork for Kitty and every other
black person that came afterwards. So like, how did that
How did your unexperience with them Mattel shape your understand
(23:37):
that representation.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
You know, that's the other thing I think about intergenerational
conversations is having an understand you really get an idea
for the mindset, right, and how you're different, Like you
can see how sometimes your journey intersects and can be
(24:00):
kind of parallel and similar.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Yeah, but.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
How we kind of think about it in the way
of progress, and you know, and we'll see that with
the next generation. That's you know, whereas her understanding of it,
you know, it's just that's the way it was. Yeah,
and you navigate it in a way that you know,
(24:29):
be it double state of consciousness, be it you you
find a way to navigate model minority like and back
then and you didn't say much, right, you know, you
didn't say much.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
You was saying right, right.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
And her having an understanding like for her to ask
that question of ruth for her, that didn't seem like
a little act of rebelution, right, like you know, Patricia
Turner says in the film it for her, you know,
she feels very insignificant and you know, and asking that
(25:13):
question doesn't seem revolutionary, you know. But then you take
it to me listening to that, and I'm like, hello,
where we are right now as a generation in the
sense of I'm hoping you know, that's something that you
(25:36):
know doesn't get washed away? Is that sense of vocalness
and asking I was like, that's it. Don't be afraid
to ask the question. And let's take it a step further.
Let's take it beyond the person of color at the
table asking the question. Can we get our white counterparts
to like ask that question, ask the tough question, why
(25:59):
aren't there any you know, people of color at the
freaking table, right, you know, like, don't leave it to
us to come in as the one person and being.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Like because we tired that part, Oh my god, like
come on, somebody else got to stand up like, yes, yes,
and so give me a break.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Give me a break. And so for me, you know,
she was able to for my aunt, she was able
to carve out a really an amazing living, an amazing
life for herself. You know, she's she's, you know, financially,
was able to make that work, being really smart busy
(26:42):
with her business, you know, as smart as ruthe handler
with handling the money that she was making at the company,
and which wasn't a lot. You know, she's like, I
came in making like seventeen cents, you know, and can
you imagine, you know, and then for me to come
around and I look at and you know, she retires
(27:07):
as a VIP receptionist, and I was like, and may
you hit the glass ceiling, you know, you know, and
so for me looking in at it. But then we
have a similar experience and journey because you know, times
(27:28):
are different. Yeah, and sometimes for the work that we do,
it still feels like it's seventeen cents an hour.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Times are different, but the feelings are still the same.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Okay, yeah, yes.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
That's a fact.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Yeah. So it was just me kind of really unpacking
and unraveling that that kind of you know, the sentiments
when I kind of wrote out, you know, me and
my aunt are from different generations, but we have a
similar experience, like how things change but never change right facts.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Well chow, that was a word right there. Do you
think your aunt looks back and just be like just
look at how important her role was?
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Like I said no when I because if.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
One has said nothing, we probably would never had a
black Barbie.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
I mean if she hadn't. It's like Patricia Turner said, like,
if my aunt may wasn't there at the company, would
there have been a thought for them to hire a kiddy?
Right in a leadership Roland having an understanding you know,
(28:50):
that what we are you know, charting out is it's
not enough to have people of color as your workers.
We need people of color in the board, in the
leadership position. And so that's what we see is Kitty
(29:13):
being able to come in as lead designer, a black woman,
who then hires two black designers and makes black Barbie
a reality. So you get that like understanding of representation
and the you know, and we we're seeing it now
(29:39):
play out in you know, a different way. You know,
I was just watching some news before I got here.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
But it's like, be.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Grateful that you're at the table right, you know. And
it's something we say in the movie too, in the
third act, being you know, it doesn't matter how you
show up, doesn't matter you are in the space. So
if you know you're not in the space in a
(30:10):
leadership role, just progress is slow to get there. Just
be gratful. Just be grateful though you have this opportunity
that was you know, like given to you, but not
that you have actually worked for. You know what, I'm like, No,
I've worked really hard. I just get to hear tears,
(30:34):
Yes exactly, I wasn't just sitting on the couch potato
chips and you gave me.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
A job like no right. And the fact that Black
Barbie came twenty one years after Barbie, I think that
speaks volumes within itself exactly.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
So that was the other thing that I found very Oh.
I just remember coming from a place where I didn't
understand the significance and the importance of dolls, the value
(31:12):
of them too, looking at this Black Barbie and having
an understanding like, oh wow, it took twenty one years,
and you know, in my voice in the film, I'm
just like, it's a doll. Yeah, Like so for me,
you know, what I'm communicating is having an understanding that
(31:34):
if this is what it takes for a piece of plastic,
can you imagine a pizza a plastic, a melanated piece
of plastic twenty one years to be worthy of the
Barbie brand name. Can you even imagine what it's like
to navigate this this world and the space in white
(31:56):
spaces as a black woman, human flesh and blood. I
was sitting there relating to Black Barbie's journey in a
way that it's our journey. Yeah, it's yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Go ahead, yeah, because I love how you you showcase
the different generational differences in how black Barbie is perceived
because you got the younger girls, you know, they're like, okay,
this is barbieus like she was, I love her, grand
next to play with her. But then when you got
to the older women, and like I think one of
the women she started crying and I'm just like they
(32:37):
see themselves. And when I was growing up, I wasn't
allowed to play with white dolls. So I think you
did a really good job doing that. Like, did you
notice that, like the difference between the two generations.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
I did mention, and I think, you know, coming from
this perspective, you know, my journey is not really liking
to play with dolls in general to definitely having and
you know, I have recollection of having white dolls, and
(33:17):
you know, we had a black cabbage patch. I do
remember that we had. My mom especially made some black
raggedy and Raggedy Andy from my brother, Like you know,
she spent one hundred and fifty dollars a pop on
these plushy like black versions of Raggedy Ann and Raggedy
(33:40):
Andy so that we could have them. We were not
a rich family by any means, but you know, as
I grew up and got older that had a certain
that landed on me in a way of having an
understanding that even though we were allowed to play with
white dolls, that my mom had this thought of, you know,
(34:02):
I'm going to spend this money right so that my
kids can see. You know, we from the South of
Raggedy Ann and Raggedy Andy. They're big, big players in
the toy game out there. So you know, I think
(34:22):
I wasn't surprised.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
At how deep it got.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
Yeah, Like, I wasn't surprised at how deep it got
because of the way I was feeling about Black Barbie's
twenty one year journey. And I think that you know,
between the women, the younger women and the older women,
first and foremost, it was just really important to show
(34:49):
that it's not a monolithic experience. Facts. Facts, we don't
all think the same, you know, we don't all you know,
want the same thing. We don you know, so just
so it was important to showcase that. And since my
experience was, you know, coming from a place that you know,
(35:11):
we were affirmed as black children in our home, but
we were still allowed to watch a lot of white
TV and play with white dolls, and you know, Leah
Williams came in as our producer, and she kind of
offered this other perspective of like, well, she's like you,
(35:33):
she didn't have any white dolls my parents. Her parents
was just like, no white dolls. You playing black dolls,
you know exactly. So you know, she was the one
that was kind of like, well, you're you really are
speaking from your perspective, your experience in my in you know,
(35:56):
your experience navigating in this way that brings that questions
your worst Yeah, and because of this, you know, you know,
playing with white dolls, and but there's all other you know,
(36:17):
schwatch swath of you know, black women, black girls who
are like my household. So then you know, I was like, okay,
let's you know, talk about that. And you know, that
was something we were able to actually really shore up
when Seandaman got involved and could talk more about that
(36:43):
play with intentionality. Yeah, yeah, and I think in our
third act we were able to bring it, you know,
home with the kids, with the kids, because that was
attar such an important part and have an understanding that
you know, at least from my perspective, what I was
you know, taking is that taking away from it is
(37:07):
that those kids are very affirmed and it's overwhelmingly positive
how they see themselves. Yeah, but what we were able to,
you know, do in the film was showed the cracks
that no matter how affirmed and how intentional, even with
(37:34):
my you know, my niece who's in the film.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Oh that was deep right there.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
You Yeah, Like it's hard to combat the reality, which
is the what the kids are seeing and experiencing.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
When your Na said that, I was like, Wow, that
was that was that was That was a moment.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
So and just to give you all reference if you
haven't seen Black Barbie. And I'm paraphrasing, but pretty much,
she said that she doesn't feel that Black Barbie can
make it if she wasn't beside Barbie.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Yeah, like that shit is deep, Like she couldn't be
as successful like she Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
But I also think that what I really enjoyed about
the kid part in part three was that you showcase
the study, a well known study that show young children
of color would acts choose between a white doll and
a brown doll, and often they would pick the white
doll because they associate whiteness with goodness. And that was like,
let's say, twenty thirty years ago and here we are
in current time and you show kids, and kids was like, no,
(38:45):
like this. I mean, there were a few little brownies
that was picking little white dogs, but majority of the
brownies were like no, because her hair is not like
mine or her skin is not like mine, Like she
doesn't look like me. So I thought that was important
because I'm like, look how Farbi came.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Yeah, look how far we come?
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yea, even though we gotta see the libram.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
Yes. And then I think it was really interesting to
have an understanding that when it came to who Barbie
is and was it is Mattlibu Barbie. And then one
of the things that the doll test from the nineteenth
nineteen forties, the Clark Maymie and oh my goodness, I'm
(39:29):
forgetting yea, how is that possible? Holy moly. Yeah, we
just had a screening, so you would think that information
was at the forefront of my head, my mind, and
I remember maybe, and that'll never go away because that's
(39:49):
my dad's mom's name, Grandma Maymie, So that'll always be
just like at the forefront. And I keep thinking, like,
Philip Clark, is that right? But her husband, the Clerks,
they did the test in the nineteen forties and having
an understanding that also one of the we reimagined it.
(40:10):
It was used as inspiration because you know, one of
the things that they really did that was interesting. One.
It's a forced choice test too. You know, they just
put both the black baby doll and the white baby
doll and a diaper. And so what we you know,
(40:31):
saw with our tests that doctor Amerisofia structured out for us,
which is amazing. She did such amazing work with that
is the kids referencing you know, the clothes and the
shoes and the accessories which were stripped away from the
(40:55):
baby dolls. So when they were choosing back then, that's
really all they had to focus on. And then of
course we brought in you know, a variety like of
backgrounds for the kids we brought in and a variety
(41:16):
of backgrounds for the dolls as well.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Yeah, you know, I'm just curious when creating Black Barbie
the documentary, was there anything that you learned about yourself?
Speaker 1 (41:28):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (41:28):
Yeah, I learned all kinds of things about myself. I
unpacked so much just around dolls. And hopefully you're watching
and you're pulling certain things that you can watch it
several times and have different things you can like pull
from it. You know, that was the goal hopefully to
create something so nuanced and a way that you know,
(41:51):
possibly we introduced something you hadn't considered or you know,
thought about, and you know, having an understand that I
and so many other people in the film are adults
talking about when they were kids. Yeah, and then to
sit down with the kids because those kids will grow
(42:14):
up and having none understanding that. You know, a lot
of what our researchers said in the film was, you know,
they are talking about race, they just don't have the
language that right, you know, pick up on and right,
and having an understanding that these kids are going to
(42:35):
grow up to be adults talking about when they were kids.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
The documentary started off as talking about black Barbie, but
when it shifts, oh man, it's so many different things
that we can talk about when it comes to your
document especially when it comes to race. Like just the
way how even when Barbie did the whole black Lives
Matter thing, like it was just like it was It's
just it's just so crazy, how it's a grown, real
(43:12):
person you can relate to the struggles of a dog,
like it was very emotional to watch during certain points.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Yeah, and you know, we hope there's you know, like
like I said, life, there's joy, Yeah, you know, some
tears laughter, you know, it encompasses, it'll take you on
an emotional ride.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Yeah, it definitely like life.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
So hopefully you're laughing at some point. You might be
a little weepy at some point, but hopefully when we
get towards the end, and you know, we kind of
incorporate of course, the making of Black Barbie documentary in there.
There's so many things that you know, you'll feel empowered
(44:06):
to see that. You know, Black Barbie, we've created space
and made space for her on the timeline. You know,
we've made her the hero of her own story and right,
you know, and so hopefully that's something that you know,
(44:27):
one of the main takeaways is is that no matter
how much they want to strip away and try to
erase our accomplishments and what our contributions are to these
United States of America, you know that we know why
the cage birds sing, and we gonna we gonna be
(44:50):
out here doing what we do. We gonna see a need,
We're gonna put some people together and we're gonna make
it together. We gonna make it happen. We tired, I'm
gonna tell you we out here exhausted, but that's not
gonna stop us. And if we can't do it, we're
(45:12):
gonna pass the torch to someone else who can. So
let's let's do it. Let's you know. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
So, now that the documentary is complete, has it changed
the way you think about legacy, both personally and culturally?
Speaker 3 (45:29):
Yeah, it's so funny because that's what I'm in the
middle of. I wouldn't say middle, but like rewriting a
script that kind of uh talks explores the legacy of
the Black Rodeo through the protagonists of a black girl
(45:50):
and a black cow girl, you know, and it is
she comes from a family of legacy, he rooted in
the rodeo and what does that mean? And so I
guess I am in a in an era of exploring legacy.
And it's funny because that wasn't a main theme really,
(46:15):
Like I didn't hear I didn't. I called it like
our hero story. So the hero story a stories my
aunt Katie and Stacy and Black Barbie. Right, that's that
a story. We're there, And it really wasn't until I'm
reading through the transcripts and the lovely, wonderful, beautiful Ashley
(46:40):
blamed Feathers and Jenkins. I'm reading through her her her transcripts,
and it's just like legacy, legacy, legacy. Sometimes I felt
like a beautiful mind with my transcripts and like trying
to put this this paper cut together, and the word
(47:01):
legacy was popping up and team and I was like,
these threads. Because we had a ten hour movie that
was not a movie, you know, that I needed to
figure out really the core, you know, of you know,
what it was that we were wanting to, you know,
(47:23):
really put out there and say, and how we were
going to get to point A to point B to
point C to the end, you know. And so she
was less like legacy, and I was like, okay, so
this is our legacy story.
Speaker 2 (47:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:44):
And then of course, once I started to really look
at it like that, I had already thought in terms
of this connection of what Black Barbie meant for my
aunt Kitty Stacey was kind of validation of being seen
and heard, her existence in a space where oftentimes you're silence,
(48:09):
like Ashley Blaine Feathers and Jenkins says in the film,
and you know, the parallel journey of you know what
it means to actually have Black Barbing the documentary out
on Netflix, out in the world, having conversations like we're
doing right now, sparking conversations hopefully traveling everywhere.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
He was at a parade you.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
Look at the state. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and you know,
hopefully that's not something that like stops because you know,
people don't feel it's relevant or needed. Conversations, have needed
documentary to be talking about these say what we woke
(48:55):
that has been weaponized and turned into something that co
and turned into something that is just not right. And
so this is the times and where we're in a
place where it feels like there is no more freedom
of speech, There is no more being able to have
these conversations. The only thing that is it's dangerous almost
(49:20):
to think in terms of not dwelling in this the
safety of you know, this administration and what they feel
they're trying to strip us of all the language of
seeing that we're here. I'm also a queer woman married
(49:40):
to a woman, so right, and so we are coming
into a space of having an understanding where for a
long time I was thinking Black Barbie is validation the
documentary is validation of me being seen and heard in
the industry that is very hard to be seen and
(50:05):
heard in of as a you know, a black queer woman, writer, director,
And these are all identities that I embrace but know
that I am more than right. That is not the
all and the whole sum of of this, but you know,
(50:28):
them passing the torch to me when it comes to
the legacy and trying to get this story out in
a mainstream way. You definitely did it, yes, and it's
not something that's even documented in textbooks. And that was
another thing that I realized that, you know, what my
(50:50):
aunt was telling me, her story was nowhere to be found,
and that seemed like something that it didn't feel right
to me.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
Yeah, but I also feel like, I don't think that
Mattel could have done what you did for Black Barbie.
Speaker 3 (51:08):
Yeah, And then I think that comes back to you know,
it's not to say that only you know, a certain
community can tell certain stories, but there is something to
that and to have an understanding that there are creatives, writers, directors,
(51:30):
filmmakers from the community. Yeah, that you know, just it's
not for lack of you know, being able to do it.
It's for lack of opportunity to actually do it. Yeah,
And so it's trying to balance those scales, like we
(51:53):
just really need to be in a place where we
can pass the torch. So if I can help someone
yet something done that's outside of my community, I'm not
trying to step in, right. And I've been using columbus
as a verb, columbus ing. I was like, it's columbus ing.
It's coming into something and taking it as yours.
Speaker 2 (52:15):
And you know, because I'm like, where's where's she going
with this columbus.
Speaker 3 (52:23):
Yeah, I'm like it's an action, it's an active.
Speaker 2 (52:26):
Verb to steal that from you. It's columbus in.
Speaker 3 (52:29):
Yeah, they out there columbus in, like you know, and
not giving the opportunity. And then you know, we can
talk about equity all day where you know, it's you know,
potentially more equitable for someone outside of the community to
tell the story. Yeah, and you can see who profits
(52:52):
from you know, if it's a uh say, a black
story that performs well and does well, you look behind
the scenes and you see who's profiting from it. And
so you know, equity is on my mind yeah as well. Yeah,
I'm like, wow, you know. Yeah, yeah, we all know.
(53:17):
We all know the systems rigged. I ain't saying nothing new.
Speaker 2 (53:20):
Right right, No, you're right, you're right. Oh man, what
this was an amazing conversation. I'm so happy that we
were able to do this, like this was this was
really good.
Speaker 3 (53:30):
But I didn't have one stand on me. Yeah about
that because my schedule was I was like, I gotta,
I can't do that. Last week I was in New York.
Speaker 2 (53:39):
Yeah, so listen, y'all, we supposed did this conversation maybe
like two three weeks ago, and then she had got married,
and then she after that you had won the NAACP Award,
and I was like, come on, now, give me my conversation.
Speaker 3 (53:51):
Please. It's even more, I will say, like timing I
is even more or you know, at the forefront of
mine because you know, since I had the project for
thirteen years, you know, I have a true understanding of
what it means to be myself as a filmmaker thirteen
(54:14):
years ago. And the filmmaker I was thirteen years ago
could not have made this film that we have on
Netflix right now. So you know, I respect the journey
and the time and then have an understanding that also
releasing it, you know, ten even ten years ago. The
(54:35):
timing time was just perfect. You know, we had what
the twenty twenty three the Year of Barbie. We you know,
dropped Black Barbie on Netflix in twenty twenty four, trying
to make it the you know, get Black Barbie out
there in a very intentional, meaningful way.
Speaker 2 (54:53):
Mom was like time, maybe you ain't leaving me out
this one. We out here, y'all right, right.
Speaker 3 (55:00):
Got something to say. And so timing is everything. So
if we would have you know, kept some of the
previously scheduled ones, you know, we wouldn't have been in
a place where you know, I could talk about having
a wife, yeah, you know, winning an NAACP award. And
(55:22):
so it's just I feel like it's enriched our conversation,
and the timing was just perfect.
Speaker 2 (55:27):
Yeah. And last and not least, if Matil was to
come to you and say they want to make you
a Barbie doll, would you do it?
Speaker 3 (55:34):
You mean, like make a Barbie doll out of me?
Speaker 2 (55:37):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (55:38):
You know, I'm gonna have to echo my aunt. You know,
she'd be like me.
Speaker 2 (55:43):
They should definitely make a Barbie doll of her.
Speaker 3 (55:46):
You know, that would be so amazing. She would love
that so much. I would love that for her, you
know something. Yeah, that would be something that I would
love to see as opposed to seeing a you know,
a black Barbie of me or just a Barbie of me.
(56:07):
What they can do, though, is if they want to
come over and collaborate and get me into some black
Barbie some kind of They making all kinds of movies
over there, and they want to be inclusive. Okay, because details.
Speaker 2 (56:24):
I shouldn't need a partnership with Barbie, like I love Barbie.
Speaker 3 (56:27):
Hit me up. Let's let's tell some stories.
Speaker 2 (56:30):
Yeah, have they have? They reached out to you just
to say congratulations on the success of your documentary.
Speaker 3 (56:36):
Oh, I you know what I don't that's is that
the job of Mattel.
Speaker 2 (56:41):
It's not the job of Mattel.
Speaker 3 (56:43):
But you know, it would be nice, but I ain't
checking for it, and that I don't sure as heck,
don't need it to validate.
Speaker 2 (56:50):
What's going on. But I think that's also very telling,
So we don't leave that there. No, thank you so much.
I really appreciate you. I think this was an amazing
conversation and I'm just so thankful that she was able
to squeeze little o me into it, so I really
appreciate it. You squeezed me into your schedule, So thank
you so much.
Speaker 3 (57:10):
Thank you, Evane. Appreciate you having.
Speaker 2 (57:13):
Me on of course, and to listeners. If you have
any questions, comments, or concerns, or you want to know
more about my guests, please make sure to hit me
up a hello at the phgpodcast dot com. And until
next time, everyone, I know niggas was like she really
had a whole conversation about black Barbie. Yes, I did,
and it was fire.
Speaker 3 (57:31):
I love it. Okay, I'm thank you for doing what
you doing.
Speaker 2 (57:35):
Okay, until next time everyone, Later you're gonna say bye.
Speaker 3 (57:41):
Yeah bye.
Speaker 2 (57:50):
The Professional Homegirl Podcast is a production of the Black
Effect Podcast Network. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the
iHeartRadio app Apple podcast Overhever you listen to your favorite shows,
don't forget to subscribe and rate the show, and you
can connect with me on social media at the PG
podcast
Welcome one and all to the Professional Homegirl Podcast. Before
we begin today's episode, we want to remind you that
the views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those
of the host and guests and are intended for educational
and entertaining purposes. In this safe space, no question is
off limits because you never know how someone's storyline can
be your lifeline. The Professional Homegirl Podcast is here to
(00:22):
celebrate the diverse voices, stories and experiences of women of color,
providing a platform for authentic and empowering conversations. There will
be some key king, some tears, but most importantly a
reminder that tough times don't last, but professional homegirls do
enjoy the show.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Welcome back to the Professional Homegirl Podcast. I hope all
is cute ishagara Ebina here and today I am sitting
down with an incredible storyteller and fer who spent thirteen
years bringing Black Barbie a documentary to life.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Now.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
This powerful film not only celebrates the impact of Black Barbie,
but also unpacks deeper conversations around representation, identity, and beauty standards.
My guests work has been recognized in a major way,
earning her an NAACP Award. For Outstanding Documentary, and today
she's here to share her journey with us. We'll dive
(01:25):
into what inspired this film, the legacy of her aunt, Beulah,
who worked at Mattel for forty years, and the challenges
of bringing the story to the screen, and how Black
Barbie continues to shape the way we see ourselves. So
get ready, y'all, because the history of Black Barbie starts now.
All write to my guests, thank you so much for
(01:45):
being on a show. How you doing, How you feeling?
Speaker 3 (01:49):
I'm doing great?
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Okay, Now, before we dive in, I already told you
this off the air, but I want to tell you
on the air. I want to give you your flowers
for two things. First Off, congratulations your beautiful wedding.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Thank you appreciated elected all the flowers there.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Yeah, and major congratulations on winning an NAACP Award for
our Standing Documentary. How did that feel?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Surreal? Yeah, one hundred percent surreal because when we got
to the table at the awards ceremony, we were like
in the back and so for us we were like, oh,
that's indicative of maybe not winning, right, So we were like, okay,
(02:37):
get a little bit more champagne. We gonna chill and
eat and you know, have a good time. So when you.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Know they already everything is a sign, you know, that's it.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
That's it. We're like, we're good. It was nice to
be nominated, and you know, we're gonna try to see
who we can see and have a good time tonight
at the show, at the ceremony, and so then when
they announced it, we were both just sitting there, like,
me and Aliyah the producer, were sitting there like and
(03:11):
then she starts like screaming, you know, and then Shondaland
are Alison and Ebane from Shondaland were there and they
were like, get up and go, and we were like,
oh yeah, right right yeah, So it was a moment.
You know, I don't think I'll ever forget.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
And it took you thirteen years to complete this documentary, right.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Yeah, it took thirteen years for Black Barbie the documentary
to get to Netflix and via Shondaland. You know, so
I think that's just a story and never giving up.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah, were there moments when you want to like walk
away from it, from everything?
Speaker 3 (03:57):
I mean yeah, I mean the nose just kept coming,
the you know, the thoughts about the creative kept coming,
and I remember, you know, having a conversation with someone
(04:20):
and they were not seeing how the puppet animation with
dolls and playing with dolls and the kids, how it
could all come together. And I remember just being like, well,
you lack imagination facts.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
And the funny thing about that is that goes viral
on Instagram? What goes viral the Barbie dolls? Like re
enacting certain movie scenes and stuff.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
You know, Yeah, that's it. It's definitely something that is
already and has been playing out in the zeitgeist before
our film, before the Barbie film. People are out here
doing animation that are that's fun and amazing, you know,
(05:09):
for lack of a better word, they're they're out there
doing that. So for me, it just made sense to
do it in the film, to play with the dolls,
playing with Barbies, you know, I got to do that
in the film.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Which we'll touch on later because you don't even like
Barbie dolls growing up, No, you can miss me with
all of that.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
I was not checking for it.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Right, How has this how has created a documentary changed
the way you viewed storytelling?
Speaker 3 (05:38):
You know what? I you, I just have to say kudos,
you know, I This was my first documentary. I'm primarily
a writer director, so I'm in the scripted world of things,
and so documentary is hard.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
I been hearing it a lot, a lot lately. Why
is it so hard?
Speaker 3 (06:00):
I mean, there's levels to it, right, you know, there's
levels to it. In the way of one, it's hard
to you know, get the financing you need if you're
an independent person, you spend a lot of you know,
it was a lot of unpaid time thirteen years, you know, yes,
(06:22):
just believing in the story, believing in the vision of
the story, and then having people who believe in me
and this vision of the story and the story itself,
you know, helping me to keep going, like you know,
(06:43):
it was bigger than me. And I felt like, you know,
in a world if I didn't continue to press for this,
that I'd be letting a lot of people down, from
my family to you know, my Aunt May's story, to
Kitty Stacy's. The more I kind of pushed it out
there and the responses I was getting in those rooms
(07:04):
just it made it even more obvious that the story
needed to be told, it needed to happen. So, you know,
it's challenging on that end. Of the spectrum of you know,
trying to get some form of financing to put some
production value into the project. You know, have it looked like,
(07:28):
you know, you did. You're trying to do something. You
got a visual something going on. It is visual storytelling,
you know, films in and of itself, and so you know,
you have that, and then distribution was a little challenging
as well. And then just story. You don't have a script, right,
(07:52):
and so you're you're hoping that you're asking the right questions,
you know, and you can't put words in people's mouth.
At least that's not how I operate as a documentary director.
You know. I like for it to be conversational. I
(08:13):
like for you know, people to just talk to me.
Let's let's have a conversation. And I'm listening and I
have questions. But sometimes what they're telling me, as I
hear their story, as I'm actively listening to what they're
telling me, that's more compelling than the questions that I
(08:34):
have here, you know, so I'm like, let's deep dive
talk more about that. I wasn't expecting that, you know,
so actually trying to create and so it's one of
those things. Also where story wise, beginning, middle end, what's
(08:57):
you know, the art, what's the plot, what's and how
do you get this information out and an entertaining way
hopefully you know? Yeah, So it was a challenge.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
One thing I will say that I really enjoy about
the documentary is I think you did a really good
job with navigating between the critical and the celebratory moments
of Black Barbie. Because there were times where I would say,
I am Barbie, like come on now, like y'all treat
Black Barbie like how y'all would treat black people in
life like before she became a part of the universe.
(09:32):
So was that challenging for you to be able to
like showcase both narratives.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
I mean, it was always something that I was very
you know, talking with my collaborators too. We all had
this understanding of it being a balance, right, you know,
the thematically when we're talking about representation, right, you know, identity,
(10:01):
seeing yourself in the world and what is communicated back
to us, no matter how affirmed we are, you know,
having this understanding of balancing thematically how you know, dark
if we really kind of looked at it, what story
(10:23):
we would be telling could be really dark? And bleak
about what it means to not see yourself, you know,
And we knew it was Barbie, and so on one hand,
we're anticipating people want to walk in and see something fluffy,
you know, fluffy, cute, you know. And on the other hand,
(10:49):
we knew we needed to talk about these these these
things that matter to these themes that matter to black
women and black girls. And so it's like, how do
we get this balance of darkness and light knowing that,
you know, And one of the approaches we just took
to it was thinking in terms of at least for me,
(11:11):
I thought of it as like it's life.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yeah, right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
It's life, like bad things happen, and you know, we
don't have to dwell in that space. We can acknowledge that.
Let be a witness as our you know, subject testifies
and you know, and then move on to the celebration.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah, you know. It was a scene that you did
where I think a book came out or something, and
it was like showcasing all the different things that happened
within Barbie and nowhere in the book they mentioned black Barbie.
I'm like, that was a moment.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
It was a moment I think we were all really surprised.
You know, I think it's something and it just kind
of speaks to being in a place where you're you know,
constantly told that you know, black Barbie matters to Mattel,
Black Barbie matters in general, the legacy of that, of
(12:24):
how Black Barbie came to be, the women that you know,
we're able to make that happen, all of that matters.
But then in something so you know, kind of crucial
to the history of Mattel on that time line in
the book, we see that Black Barbie's nowhere to be found.
(12:47):
And it's these competing narratives where if it is a
legacy that you acknowledge and respect, and if it is
important exactly if it is important, then why is she missing?
Why is she not included? Why is she not seen
in the Barbie movie? Why isn't she not you know,
(13:12):
her presence is And so for me, it's competing. It's
you're saying one thing, but you're showing me another.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Did you get any resistance from Mattel elementary.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
No, not at all. You know, yeah, it's not a
Mattel film, But.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
I want to eat Barbie dolls now, yeah, by.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
You know, it wasn't even something we wanted to do
in the sense of I was just like, this film
is not about Mattel. They just so happened to be
the big corporation behind this particular doll, you know, but
it is, you know, just kind of shedding the light
(13:58):
on the importance of play. Yeah, and what's at stake
for black women and black girls, you know, when they're
not really thought of in an intentional, meaningful way when
it comes to the content and the toys that they
play with. While at the same time celebrating my aunt
(14:23):
view La May, Kitty Black Perkins, and Stacey McBride Derby.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yeah, so growing up, what was it about Barbie that
didn't resonate with you because you hated Barbie dolls or
just dolls in general.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
I hated dolls in general. No, So it's funny because
I just hated dolls in general. To think in terms
of as a little girl, I didn't have the language
that I do now to kind of really put into
wards what it felt like as a little girl and
(15:00):
not really gravitating towards the things that they were telling
me I should be gravitating towards as a little girl.
If that makes sense I hate the color pink, like
I was just like, I don't. I love the color blue,
like blue, that's my favorite color, nice like deep cyan,
(15:22):
like royal blue, lake ooh that was I think, yeah exactly,
But pink, I'm kind of like, no, you can. I
don't know pink. And dolls were like that as well.
It was like, Okay, I have a baby doll to
change the diapers, to feed to cuck cuck coo, nurture, nurture,
(15:46):
and then the fashion doll came along. And I don't
really consider myself in any way, shape or form, any
kind of like fashion forward person, and so for me,
it felt very vapid, and I was like, I don't care.
As long as I'm comfortable, I don't care. And so
(16:06):
I wasn't looking into like trying to dress the doll
or marry the doll to ken or you know that
type of imagination that you know. As I made the
documentary talking to people, it was really, you know, interesting
to see how they actually played with their dolls and
imagining all kinds of different things outside of yeah, yeah,
(16:31):
outside of the things that I felt the dolls were
trying to communicate to me that I kind of rejected
as a girl. So it was just kind of rejecting
all of these things that I was told meant you know,
you were a little girl, and really trying to step
into who I was and the things that I liked
(16:53):
as a girl.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
You know, you know, it's a good point because I
have a lot of friends who didn't like Barbie, and
one of the main reason why they didn't like Barbie
is because they felt like she didn't resonate with their
own experiences or I didn'ty. So I think that what
you're saying is very valid because a lot of girls
didn't see themselves in Barbie.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Yeah, I mean I didn't, and I just you know,
I'd rather be reading a book. Yeah. I can draw,
so I did a lot of drawing. I write, So
I did a lot of writing, you know, poems and lyrics,
and you know, I was a creative person. I like
to play outside, riding bikes and skateboards and you know,
(17:35):
playing remote control cars or transformers, you know, trivia games.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Like I was interactive, yes.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
And I'm still that person. Like I like activities. I like,
you know, invite me to dinner, to sit down with
a bunch of people and I'm like, oh, can't be
go bowling? Can we?
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Like this is fun?
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Let's do something active that we can kind of eat
around mingle talk. You know. Our rehearsal dinner for the
wedding was axe thrawing. You know, we like ordered some pizzas.
It was like bring your own food. So we ordered
some pizzas, some chicken wyomi. Yeah, and they had alcohol
(18:21):
so and or no they didn't actually, so you can
bring your own alcohol. They had like beer, so be
while alcohol, order some beer and throw some axes. They
let us some knives and you know what I was like, yes, yea, yeah,
like I was thriving in that environment. You know, So
(18:44):
I really do. I like to play games. I like activities.
I like puzzles stuff like that. And for me, it
wasn't necessarily dolls weren't a puzzle. They weren't active, you know,
I didn't. What was really funny was that I did
get like a kitchen.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Like a Barbie.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Yeah, no, it wasn't Barbie. It was just like a
kitchen set, you know, where you had all these play
foods like pizza.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
And hamburgers and stuff.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Yeah, like that you could cook and it came with
like pots and pans and you had stoves and we
would play drive through window with that. And I didn't
mind that because it felt like culinary even though it
was a role that it felt like a little girl
should be in. Like as you grow up to be
a woman, you're gonna be into fashion. You're gonna like
(19:41):
have babies to nurture, and you're gonna have to cook
for the baby. Like there was something very different, I
guess for me for that toy because it did feel
active and put the latics on there.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Tomatoes, Yeah, so active.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
And I like to cook As an adult person, I
enjoy cooking and coming up with my own recipes and
baking and you know, making elaborate dinners and kind of
like hosting people. I do enjoy that. So that was
a toy that I did gravitate towards that felt kind
of like domesticating women.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
You know.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
So did you get the inspiration and to create Black
Barbie when you move into your Beulah house.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
That's exactly it. Like that's one of the themes you
know that we kind of shore up just by having
that conversation is kind of like intergenerational conversation because you know,
my great aunt if you will. You know, she's of
a certain age and much older than myself. And so
(20:47):
just sitting down to talk.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
To her, yeah, and I felt like that was so cool.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
It was really cool to think in terms of hearing
her talk about like there's something about lived history, yes,
and it's just details that you won't really find, like
details and perspectives that you really won't find in you know,
your history books, right exactly. They it's you know, And
(21:18):
so it was really fascinating to me to hear her
talk about Barbie through this lens, this you know, octogenarian
black woman's lens, you know, and who Barbie was to
her and what it would mean for you know, the
company Mattel to make an actual black Barbie and to
(21:43):
have an understanding of what it meant to then see
them not necessarily make a black Barbie, but a friend
of Barbie that was black.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Right, and she wasn't technically a Barbie.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Right, right. And so to hear you know what that
meant firsthand and into crazy and that experience, you know,
I was just sitting there listening to her being like
you were on that first Barbie line. I mean, that
was like one of the first haadcock moments like huh,
(22:16):
that's wild what And then she's like, we were like,
why not make a black barbie? Why not make a
barbie that looks like me? And that kind of is
like the light bulb moment for me where I'm like,
you know, I'm a filmmaker.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Right, she's baby.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
I don't know what that means. Right. And So through
that conversation, you know, I got the lived history from
her perspective of you know, the doll that literally put
Mattel on the map. Yeah, as a toy company, and
(22:58):
you know, she introduced me to this world of like
and I say, you know, I introduced her to my
world of filmmaking.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
You know, I really want to give your aunt her flowers,
because not only did she play a pivotal role in
representation and toys, but also in the workplace, Like she
really laid the groundwork, groundwork for Kitty and every other
black person that came afterwards. So like, how did that
How did your unexperience with them Mattel shape your understand
(23:37):
that representation.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
You know, that's the other thing I think about intergenerational
conversations is having an understand you really get an idea
for the mindset, right, and how you're different, Like you
can see how sometimes your journey intersects and can be
(24:00):
kind of parallel and similar.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Yeah, but.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
How we kind of think about it in the way
of progress, and you know, and we'll see that with
the next generation. That's you know, whereas her understanding of it,
you know, it's just that's the way it was. Yeah,
and you navigate it in a way that you know,
(24:29):
be it double state of consciousness, be it you you
find a way to navigate model minority like and back
then and you didn't say much, right, you know, you
didn't say much.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
You was saying right, right.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
And her having an understanding like for her to ask
that question of ruth for her, that didn't seem like
a little act of rebelution, right, like you know, Patricia
Turner says in the film it for her, you know,
she feels very insignificant and you know, and asking that
(25:13):
question doesn't seem revolutionary, you know. But then you take
it to me listening to that, and I'm like, hello,
where we are right now as a generation in the
sense of I'm hoping you know, that's something that you
(25:36):
know doesn't get washed away? Is that sense of vocalness
and asking I was like, that's it. Don't be afraid
to ask the question. And let's take it a step further.
Let's take it beyond the person of color at the
table asking the question. Can we get our white counterparts
to like ask that question, ask the tough question, why
(25:59):
aren't there any you know, people of color at the
freaking table, right, you know, like, don't leave it to
us to come in as the one person and being.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Like because we tired that part, Oh my god, like
come on, somebody else got to stand up like, yes, yes,
and so give me a break.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Give me a break. And so for me, you know,
she was able to for my aunt, she was able
to carve out a really an amazing living, an amazing
life for herself. You know, she's she's, you know, financially,
was able to make that work, being really smart busy
(26:42):
with her business, you know, as smart as ruthe handler
with handling the money that she was making at the company,
and which wasn't a lot. You know, she's like, I
came in making like seventeen cents, you know, and can
you imagine, you know, and then for me to come
around and I look at and you know, she retires
(27:07):
as a VIP receptionist, and I was like, and may
you hit the glass ceiling, you know, you know, and
so for me looking in at it. But then we
have a similar experience and journey because you know, times
(27:28):
are different. Yeah, and sometimes for the work that we do,
it still feels like it's seventeen cents an hour.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Times are different, but the feelings are still the same.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Okay, yeah, yes.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
That's a fact.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Yeah. So it was just me kind of really unpacking
and unraveling that that kind of you know, the sentiments
when I kind of wrote out, you know, me and
my aunt are from different generations, but we have a
similar experience, like how things change but never change right facts.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Well chow, that was a word right there. Do you
think your aunt looks back and just be like just
look at how important her role was?
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Like I said no when I because if.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
One has said nothing, we probably would never had a
black Barbie.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
I mean if she hadn't. It's like Patricia Turner said, like,
if my aunt may wasn't there at the company, would
there have been a thought for them to hire a kiddy?
Right in a leadership Roland having an understanding you know,
(28:50):
that what we are you know, charting out is it's
not enough to have people of color as your workers.
We need people of color in the board, in the
leadership position. And so that's what we see is Kitty
(29:13):
being able to come in as lead designer, a black woman,
who then hires two black designers and makes black Barbie
a reality. So you get that like understanding of representation
and the you know, and we we're seeing it now
(29:39):
play out in you know, a different way. You know,
I was just watching some news before I got here.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
But it's like, be.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Grateful that you're at the table right, you know. And
it's something we say in the movie too, in the
third act, being you know, it doesn't matter how you
show up, doesn't matter you are in the space. So
if you know you're not in the space in a
(30:10):
leadership role, just progress is slow to get there. Just
be gratful. Just be grateful though you have this opportunity
that was you know, like given to you, but not
that you have actually worked for. You know what, I'm like, No,
I've worked really hard. I just get to hear tears,
(30:34):
Yes exactly, I wasn't just sitting on the couch potato
chips and you gave me.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
A job like no right. And the fact that Black
Barbie came twenty one years after Barbie, I think that
speaks volumes within itself exactly.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
So that was the other thing that I found very Oh.
I just remember coming from a place where I didn't
understand the significance and the importance of dolls, the value
(31:12):
of them too, looking at this Black Barbie and having
an understanding like, oh wow, it took twenty one years,
and you know, in my voice in the film, I'm
just like, it's a doll. Yeah, Like so for me,
you know, what I'm communicating is having an understanding that
(31:34):
if this is what it takes for a piece of plastic,
can you imagine a pizza a plastic, a melanated piece
of plastic twenty one years to be worthy of the
Barbie brand name. Can you even imagine what it's like
to navigate this this world and the space in white
(31:56):
spaces as a black woman, human flesh and blood. I
was sitting there relating to Black Barbie's journey in a
way that it's our journey. Yeah, it's yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Go ahead, yeah, because I love how you you showcase
the different generational differences in how black Barbie is perceived
because you got the younger girls, you know, they're like, okay,
this is barbieus like she was, I love her, grand
next to play with her. But then when you got
to the older women, and like I think one of
the women she started crying and I'm just like they
(32:37):
see themselves. And when I was growing up, I wasn't
allowed to play with white dolls. So I think you
did a really good job doing that. Like, did you
notice that, like the difference between the two generations.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
I did mention, and I think, you know, coming from
this perspective, you know, my journey is not really liking
to play with dolls in general to definitely having and
you know, I have recollection of having white dolls, and
(33:17):
you know, we had a black cabbage patch. I do
remember that we had. My mom especially made some black
raggedy and Raggedy Andy from my brother, Like you know,
she spent one hundred and fifty dollars a pop on
these plushy like black versions of Raggedy Ann and Raggedy
(33:40):
Andy so that we could have them. We were not
a rich family by any means, but you know, as
I grew up and got older that had a certain
that landed on me in a way of having an
understanding that even though we were allowed to play with
white dolls, that my mom had this thought of, you know,
(34:02):
I'm going to spend this money right so that my
kids can see. You know, we from the South of
Raggedy Ann and Raggedy Andy. They're big, big players in
the toy game out there. So you know, I think
(34:22):
I wasn't surprised.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
At how deep it got.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
Yeah, Like, I wasn't surprised at how deep it got
because of the way I was feeling about Black Barbie's
twenty one year journey. And I think that you know,
between the women, the younger women and the older women,
first and foremost, it was just really important to show
(34:49):
that it's not a monolithic experience. Facts. Facts, we don't
all think the same, you know, we don't all you know,
want the same thing. We don you know, so just
so it was important to showcase that. And since my
experience was, you know, coming from a place that you know,
(35:11):
we were affirmed as black children in our home, but
we were still allowed to watch a lot of white
TV and play with white dolls, and you know, Leah
Williams came in as our producer, and she kind of
offered this other perspective of like, well, she's like you,
(35:33):
she didn't have any white dolls my parents. Her parents
was just like, no white dolls. You playing black dolls,
you know exactly. So you know, she was the one
that was kind of like, well, you're you really are
speaking from your perspective, your experience in my in you know,
(35:56):
your experience navigating in this way that brings that questions
your worst Yeah, and because of this, you know, you know,
playing with white dolls, and but there's all other you know,
(36:17):
schwatch swath of you know, black women, black girls who
are like my household. So then you know, I was like, okay,
let's you know, talk about that. And you know, that
was something we were able to actually really shore up
when Seandaman got involved and could talk more about that
(36:43):
play with intentionality. Yeah, yeah, and I think in our
third act we were able to bring it, you know,
home with the kids, with the kids, because that was
attar such an important part and have an understanding that
you know, at least from my perspective, what I was
you know, taking is that taking away from it is
(37:07):
that those kids are very affirmed and it's overwhelmingly positive
how they see themselves. Yeah, but what we were able to,
you know, do in the film was showed the cracks
that no matter how affirmed and how intentional, even with
(37:34):
my you know, my niece who's in the film.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Oh that was deep right there.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
You Yeah, Like it's hard to combat the reality, which
is the what the kids are seeing and experiencing.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
When your Na said that, I was like, Wow, that
was that was that was That was a moment.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
So and just to give you all reference if you
haven't seen Black Barbie. And I'm paraphrasing, but pretty much,
she said that she doesn't feel that Black Barbie can
make it if she wasn't beside Barbie.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Yeah, like that shit is deep, Like she couldn't be
as successful like she Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
But I also think that what I really enjoyed about
the kid part in part three was that you showcase
the study, a well known study that show young children
of color would acts choose between a white doll and
a brown doll, and often they would pick the white
doll because they associate whiteness with goodness. And that was like,
let's say, twenty thirty years ago and here we are
in current time and you show kids, and kids was like, no,
(38:45):
like this. I mean, there were a few little brownies
that was picking little white dogs, but majority of the
brownies were like no, because her hair is not like
mine or her skin is not like mine, Like she
doesn't look like me. So I thought that was important
because I'm like, look how Farbi came.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Yeah, look how far we come?
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yea, even though we gotta see the libram.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
Yes. And then I think it was really interesting to
have an understanding that when it came to who Barbie
is and was it is Mattlibu Barbie. And then one
of the things that the doll test from the nineteenth
nineteen forties, the Clark Maymie and oh my goodness, I'm
(39:29):
forgetting yea, how is that possible? Holy moly. Yeah, we
just had a screening, so you would think that information
was at the forefront of my head, my mind, and
I remember maybe, and that'll never go away because that's
(39:49):
my dad's mom's name, Grandma Maymie, So that'll always be
just like at the forefront. And I keep thinking, like,
Philip Clark, is that right? But her husband, the Clerks,
they did the test in the nineteen forties and having
an understanding that also one of the we reimagined it.
(40:10):
It was used as inspiration because you know, one of
the things that they really did that was interesting. One.
It's a forced choice test too. You know, they just
put both the black baby doll and the white baby
doll and a diaper. And so what we you know,
(40:31):
saw with our tests that doctor Amerisofia structured out for us,
which is amazing. She did such amazing work with that
is the kids referencing you know, the clothes and the
shoes and the accessories which were stripped away from the
(40:55):
baby dolls. So when they were choosing back then, that's
really all they had to focus on. And then of
course we brought in you know, a variety like of
backgrounds for the kids we brought in and a variety
(41:16):
of backgrounds for the dolls as well.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Yeah, you know, I'm just curious when creating Black Barbie
the documentary, was there anything that you learned about yourself?
Speaker 1 (41:28):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (41:28):
Yeah, I learned all kinds of things about myself. I
unpacked so much just around dolls. And hopefully you're watching
and you're pulling certain things that you can watch it
several times and have different things you can like pull
from it. You know, that was the goal hopefully to
create something so nuanced and a way that you know,
(41:51):
possibly we introduced something you hadn't considered or you know,
thought about, and you know, having an understand that I
and so many other people in the film are adults
talking about when they were kids. Yeah, and then to
sit down with the kids because those kids will grow
(42:14):
up and having none understanding that. You know, a lot
of what our researchers said in the film was, you know,
they are talking about race, they just don't have the
language that right, you know, pick up on and right,
and having an understanding that these kids are going to
(42:35):
grow up to be adults talking about when they were kids.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
The documentary started off as talking about black Barbie, but
when it shifts, oh man, it's so many different things
that we can talk about when it comes to your
document especially when it comes to race. Like just the
way how even when Barbie did the whole black Lives
Matter thing, like it was just like it was It's
just it's just so crazy, how it's a grown, real
(43:12):
person you can relate to the struggles of a dog,
like it was very emotional to watch during certain points.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Yeah, and you know, we hope there's you know, like
like I said, life, there's joy, Yeah, you know, some
tears laughter, you know, it encompasses, it'll take you on
an emotional ride.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Yeah, it definitely like life.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
So hopefully you're laughing at some point. You might be
a little weepy at some point, but hopefully when we
get towards the end, and you know, we kind of
incorporate of course, the making of Black Barbie documentary in there.
There's so many things that you know, you'll feel empowered
(44:06):
to see that. You know, Black Barbie, we've created space
and made space for her on the timeline. You know,
we've made her the hero of her own story and right,
you know, and so hopefully that's something that you know,
(44:27):
one of the main takeaways is is that no matter
how much they want to strip away and try to
erase our accomplishments and what our contributions are to these
United States of America, you know that we know why
the cage birds sing, and we gonna we gonna be
(44:50):
out here doing what we do. We gonna see a need,
We're gonna put some people together and we're gonna make
it together. We gonna make it happen. We tired, I'm
gonna tell you we out here exhausted, but that's not
gonna stop us. And if we can't do it, we're
(45:12):
gonna pass the torch to someone else who can. So
let's let's do it. Let's you know. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
So, now that the documentary is complete, has it changed
the way you think about legacy, both personally and culturally?
Speaker 3 (45:29):
Yeah, it's so funny because that's what I'm in the
middle of. I wouldn't say middle, but like rewriting a
script that kind of uh talks explores the legacy of
the Black Rodeo through the protagonists of a black girl
(45:50):
and a black cow girl, you know, and it is
she comes from a family of legacy, he rooted in
the rodeo and what does that mean? And so I
guess I am in a in an era of exploring legacy.
And it's funny because that wasn't a main theme really,
(46:15):
Like I didn't hear I didn't. I called it like
our hero story. So the hero story a stories my
aunt Katie and Stacy and Black Barbie. Right, that's that
a story. We're there, And it really wasn't until I'm
reading through the transcripts and the lovely, wonderful, beautiful Ashley
(46:40):
blamed Feathers and Jenkins. I'm reading through her her her transcripts,
and it's just like legacy, legacy, legacy. Sometimes I felt
like a beautiful mind with my transcripts and like trying
to put this this paper cut together, and the word
(47:01):
legacy was popping up and team and I was like,
these threads. Because we had a ten hour movie that
was not a movie, you know, that I needed to
figure out really the core, you know, of you know,
what it was that we were wanting to, you know,
(47:23):
really put out there and say, and how we were
going to get to point A to point B to
point C to the end, you know. And so she
was less like legacy, and I was like, okay, so
this is our legacy story.
Speaker 2 (47:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:44):
And then of course, once I started to really look
at it like that, I had already thought in terms
of this connection of what Black Barbie meant for my
aunt Kitty Stacey was kind of validation of being seen
and heard, her existence in a space where oftentimes you're silence,
(48:09):
like Ashley Blaine Feathers and Jenkins says in the film,
and you know, the parallel journey of you know what
it means to actually have Black Barbing the documentary out
on Netflix, out in the world, having conversations like we're
doing right now, sparking conversations hopefully traveling everywhere.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
He was at a parade you.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
Look at the state. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and you know,
hopefully that's not something that like stops because you know,
people don't feel it's relevant or needed. Conversations, have needed
documentary to be talking about these say what we woke
(48:55):
that has been weaponized and turned into something that co
and turned into something that is just not right. And
so this is the times and where we're in a
place where it feels like there is no more freedom
of speech, There is no more being able to have
these conversations. The only thing that is it's dangerous almost
(49:20):
to think in terms of not dwelling in this the
safety of you know, this administration and what they feel
they're trying to strip us of all the language of
seeing that we're here. I'm also a queer woman married
(49:40):
to a woman, so right, and so we are coming
into a space of having an understanding where for a
long time I was thinking Black Barbie is validation the
documentary is validation of me being seen and heard in
the industry that is very hard to be seen and
(50:05):
heard in of as a you know, a black queer woman, writer, director,
And these are all identities that I embrace but know
that I am more than right. That is not the
all and the whole sum of of this, but you know,
(50:28):
them passing the torch to me when it comes to
the legacy and trying to get this story out in
a mainstream way. You definitely did it, yes, and it's
not something that's even documented in textbooks. And that was
another thing that I realized that, you know, what my
(50:50):
aunt was telling me, her story was nowhere to be found,
and that seemed like something that it didn't feel right
to me.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
Yeah, but I also feel like, I don't think that
Mattel could have done what you did for Black Barbie.
Speaker 3 (51:08):
Yeah, And then I think that comes back to you know,
it's not to say that only you know, a certain
community can tell certain stories, but there is something to
that and to have an understanding that there are creatives, writers, directors,
(51:30):
filmmakers from the community. Yeah, that you know, just it's
not for lack of you know, being able to do it.
It's for lack of opportunity to actually do it. Yeah,
And so it's trying to balance those scales, like we
(51:53):
just really need to be in a place where we
can pass the torch. So if I can help someone
yet something done that's outside of my community, I'm not
trying to step in, right. And I've been using columbus
as a verb, columbus ing. I was like, it's columbus ing.
It's coming into something and taking it as yours.
Speaker 2 (52:15):
And you know, because I'm like, where's where's she going
with this columbus.
Speaker 3 (52:23):
Yeah, I'm like it's an action, it's an active.
Speaker 2 (52:26):
Verb to steal that from you. It's columbus in.
Speaker 3 (52:29):
Yeah, they out there columbus in, like you know, and
not giving the opportunity. And then you know, we can
talk about equity all day where you know, it's you know,
potentially more equitable for someone outside of the community to
tell the story. Yeah, and you can see who profits
(52:52):
from you know, if it's a uh say, a black
story that performs well and does well, you look behind
the scenes and you see who's profiting from it. And
so you know, equity is on my mind yeah as well. Yeah,
I'm like, wow, you know. Yeah, yeah, we all know.
(53:17):
We all know the systems rigged. I ain't saying nothing new.
Speaker 2 (53:20):
Right right, No, you're right, you're right. Oh man, what
this was an amazing conversation. I'm so happy that we
were able to do this, like this was this was
really good.
Speaker 3 (53:30):
But I didn't have one stand on me. Yeah about
that because my schedule was I was like, I gotta,
I can't do that. Last week I was in New York.
Speaker 2 (53:39):
Yeah, so listen, y'all, we supposed did this conversation maybe
like two three weeks ago, and then she had got married,
and then she after that you had won the NAACP Award,
and I was like, come on, now, give me my conversation.
Speaker 3 (53:51):
Please. It's even more, I will say, like timing I
is even more or you know, at the forefront of
mine because you know, since I had the project for
thirteen years, you know, I have a true understanding of
what it means to be myself as a filmmaker thirteen
(54:14):
years ago. And the filmmaker I was thirteen years ago
could not have made this film that we have on
Netflix right now. So you know, I respect the journey
and the time and then have an understanding that also
releasing it, you know, ten even ten years ago. The
(54:35):
timing time was just perfect. You know, we had what
the twenty twenty three the Year of Barbie. We you know,
dropped Black Barbie on Netflix in twenty twenty four, trying
to make it the you know, get Black Barbie out
there in a very intentional, meaningful way.
Speaker 2 (54:53):
Mom was like time, maybe you ain't leaving me out
this one. We out here, y'all right, right.
Speaker 3 (55:00):
Got something to say. And so timing is everything. So
if we would have you know, kept some of the
previously scheduled ones, you know, we wouldn't have been in
a place where you know, I could talk about having
a wife, yeah, you know, winning an NAACP award. And
(55:22):
so it's just I feel like it's enriched our conversation,
and the timing was just perfect.
Speaker 2 (55:27):
Yeah. And last and not least, if Matil was to
come to you and say they want to make you
a Barbie doll, would you do it?
Speaker 3 (55:34):
You mean, like make a Barbie doll out of me?
Speaker 2 (55:37):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (55:38):
You know, I'm gonna have to echo my aunt. You know,
she'd be like me.
Speaker 2 (55:43):
They should definitely make a Barbie doll of her.
Speaker 3 (55:46):
You know, that would be so amazing. She would love
that so much. I would love that for her, you
know something. Yeah, that would be something that I would
love to see as opposed to seeing a you know,
a black Barbie of me or just a Barbie of me.
(56:07):
What they can do, though, is if they want to
come over and collaborate and get me into some black
Barbie some kind of They making all kinds of movies
over there, and they want to be inclusive. Okay, because details.
Speaker 2 (56:24):
I shouldn't need a partnership with Barbie, like I love Barbie.
Speaker 3 (56:27):
Hit me up. Let's let's tell some stories.
Speaker 2 (56:30):
Yeah, have they have? They reached out to you just
to say congratulations on the success of your documentary.
Speaker 3 (56:36):
Oh, I you know what I don't that's is that
the job of Mattel.
Speaker 2 (56:41):
It's not the job of Mattel.
Speaker 3 (56:43):
But you know, it would be nice, but I ain't
checking for it, and that I don't sure as heck,
don't need it to validate.
Speaker 2 (56:50):
What's going on. But I think that's also very telling,
So we don't leave that there. No, thank you so much.
I really appreciate you. I think this was an amazing
conversation and I'm just so thankful that she was able
to squeeze little o me into it, so I really
appreciate it. You squeezed me into your schedule, So thank
you so much.
Speaker 3 (57:10):
Thank you, Evane. Appreciate you having.
Speaker 2 (57:13):
Me on of course, and to listeners. If you have
any questions, comments, or concerns, or you want to know
more about my guests, please make sure to hit me
up a hello at the phgpodcast dot com. And until
next time, everyone, I know niggas was like she really
had a whole conversation about black Barbie. Yes, I did,
and it was fire.
Speaker 3 (57:31):
I love it. Okay, I'm thank you for doing what
you doing.
Speaker 2 (57:35):
Okay, until next time everyone, Later you're gonna say bye.
Speaker 3 (57:41):
Yeah bye.
Speaker 2 (57:50):
The Professional Homegirl Podcast is a production of the Black
Effect Podcast Network. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the
iHeartRadio app Apple podcast Overhever you listen to your favorite shows,
don't forget to subscribe and rate the show, and you
can connect with me on social media at the PG
podcast
Host
Eboné Almon
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