December 26, 2024 • 47 mins
When it comes to dating in our 20s, the entire experience seems like a bit of a maze and often leaves us questioning, is there a RIGHT way to be dating in our 20s? Should I be playing it casual, and just having fun, prioritise being single and getting to know myself, only dating people we want to marry, be looking for long term compatability? And what if you know exactly what you want, but are unsure how to get it?
Today, I have on the hosts of Dateable to answer your biggest dating questions and conundrums and provide their advice from over two decades of learnings and knowledge, including:
- How to tell if someone is right for you
- How to not rush into love
- How to detach from the outcome of a first date
- How to know what you want and how to get it
- How to handle a good, not great relationship
- How to rebound from a breakup + more
Preorder How to be Dateable here: https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/166803042X?tag=simonsayscom
Follow Julie & Yue here: @dateablepodcast
PREORDER MY BOOK: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/755841/person-in-progress-by-jemma-sbeg/
Follow Jemma on Instagram: @jemmasbeg
Follow the podcast on Instagram: @thatpsychologypodcast
For business: psychologyofyour20s@gmail.com
The Psychology of your 20s is not a substitute for professional mental health help. If you are struggling, distressed or require personalised advice, please reach out to your doctor.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everybody, well, welcome back to the show. Welcome back
to the podcast, new listeners, old listeners. Wherever you are
in the world, it is so great to have you here.
Back for another episode, as we, of course break down
some of the psychology of our twenties. I'm going to
come right out and say it. The biggest questions that
(00:20):
we have in our twenties, and the questions that I
get the most of, revolve around dating, Like how exactly
are we meant to do this? How do I stop
getting attached so quickly? How do I know if this
person likes me, if I even like them, how do
I find the one and not be completely exhausted by
the process? Or the biggest question of all, is this
(00:42):
something that I should even be prioritizing during my twenties?
You know? Alternatively, could this be my decade to just
be like free and uninhibited and not worry about this process.
I think that I'm there with you, and so many
of us are. It is occasionally, you know, is more
trouble than it's worth. But I also deeply believe that
(01:03):
dating shouldn't be a chore. It should be something that's
fun and exciting and that you don't feel any pressure
towards and that there is some pretty amazing ways to
go about it that bring us to this point. The
question that that leaves us with it, I know I'm
full of a lot of questions, is how do we
get there? How do we get to that point? And
to give us the expert advice on how to date,
(01:24):
when to date, and who to date in your twenties,
we have the host of the outstanding podcast Datable, Julie
and Yue. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Thanks for having for having us.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I love your voice. I'm soon by your voice right now.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Thanks so much. Guys, you know a little bit of
ASMR to kick se out just on morning. Can you
introduce yourself and introduce Datable? Who are you guys? Who
is what is the show? O?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Yes, We're going to get right into it. We've had
this podcast for almost a decade. We were in Julie
and I were introduced by a mutual friend over a
decade ago actually, and we were just sharing what do
you call them war stories of dating, like what have
you survived? And we thought it was such a great
(02:16):
way to share what's going on in modern dating, share
our own experiences and not feel like we're alone in it,
so we decided to do a podcast out of it.
But since then, we've really evolved the way we see
modern dating. We think we are at a point where
people are very fed up with dating. It's dating is
harder than ever, but also it gives us the best
(02:38):
opportunity to date right now. And we can go into
that more later, and we go into it in our book.
But the two of us come from kind of like this.
We straddle the old and the new. So, you know,
I'm like, I'm like the first millennial, so I'm you know,
I was born in eighty one, so I'm the first millennial.
And I just remember growing up with all these rules
(03:02):
about dating, very traditional ways of looking at gender roles,
and now with modern dating, we're straddling kind of a
progressive view of dating. So I was feeling lost because
I only knew kind of the traditional ways of dating,
like who pays for what, and who should text and
who should initiate, And here I was in a world
(03:23):
where all the rules are kind of thrown out the window,
and I had to recreate a love life that worked
for me, and I didn't know where to start. So
that's where I was when I met Julie.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, and where I was. I don't think I ever
set out to be a dating expert, so it still
makes me laugh every day. But I was just as
confused as probably many people that are listening are right
this minute of just Where to Date. I got all
the old books. We were kind of talking about that
before we got on here. You know why men love
bitches and you know the rules. And I thought I
(03:56):
would approach dating like I did like schoolwork or job,
and really study up and learn all the ways to
navigate it. And I think that's why those books were
so appealing, because they gave you a framework. The problem
was I was not myself at all in the process,
and I just remember friends being like, you're so social,
you have so many friends, Like why does dating not stick?
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Ever?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
And I was just lost. And you know, I think
when I met you a, I was actually coming out
of like my first real serious relationship. And at that
point I was like, you know, I found someone, I
did it, I made it work, and then it didn't
and it wasn't because the love wasn't there. I realized,
just like not all the time things happen the way
(04:42):
like we're told they are and like in the movies,
and you know, this simplistic view of relationships, and I
think it just made us both really curious on the
topic and want to dive in even more.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
I love that this was like an accidental career feed both.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Oh hundred, Rissa, You're gravitated to things right that you
like struggle with.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Oh, you know, the psychology of your twenties. I have
no idea what I'm doing. That's the whole reason I'm
doing this.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
But you know what you do, and then you learn
all the gut along the way, right, And now.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
I just get to interview really smart experts and they
just give me all the tips, like yourself. But I
do think that you raised a really interesting point, which
is that dating in this day and age is very different,
and I think that a lot of us are bringing
very outdated ideas of what that looks like. Outdated ideas
(05:38):
of like, what are the games that we have to play,
what are the rules to follow? Blah blah blah blah blah.
Why do you think that those rules are actually you know, no,
I don't know. I don't want to say worsening our chances,
but making it so much harder for us to actually
enjoy the process.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Well, if you think about it, dating is for you.
You're not dating for other people. Yet we are restrained
by these rules that other people have created for us,
these social constructs that are not serving us for most
part and not helping us in any way. So just
(06:17):
by virtue of saying there are these rules already puts
us in a box and doesn't free us from being
our most authentic selves in dating.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yeah, I think this is kind of a weird response
as to dating experts, But one of the things we've
realized in our decade is you actually don't need to
be good at dating. Maybe it's actually hurting you because
the way dating is operates today. We're not saying to
not date. It's maybe to change how we date, but
the way it operates today, it's all centered around disconnection
(06:48):
when all we really crave is connection and the games.
Like we hear, you know, people are like, well, I'm
over the games. I don't do that, But then we
hear them say like, oh, but you know, I'm gonna
wait half an hour to text that person back because
they didn't text me back right away. That's a game,
and it's like as baked into dating culture that we
(07:09):
don't always even realize when we're playing games.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
I really like that point. It's like, is the biggest
mistake that we're making not being authentic? Like is it
just seriously back to basics? Oh my god, there we go, done?
Episode over And that was actually gonna be one of
my questions. I was going to be that you guys
are the dating experts. What's the biggest mistake that we're
(07:35):
that we're making. What's the thing we're getting wrong about dating?
Is it you know that we're not authentic? And is
it that we're trying to be someone that we're not
in the first week, month, day, year of dating someone.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
I mean, you did a recent episode about dating burnout,
and we truly believe that you feel burnt out when
you are not true to yourself because you're exerting more
energy to be something you're not. That's how you get
burned out. But if you're authentic to who you are
and your needs, then you feel energized, like dating should
feel energizing if you're doing it in a way that
(08:09):
serves you, right, So I think you're onto something there, Gemma.
Maybe the biggest issue is we're all trying to be
something we're not, and that's what's causing us to be
burnt out, to feel overwhelmed, to feel completely failed by
modern dating, when we just need to take the control
back and say, I am in the driver's seat of
(08:31):
my love life and I will make every choice, every action,
every behavior is in line with what I authentically stand for,
not with society or other people want for me.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
I also feel like when with what you were saying,
then when you put on this like false persona, right,
you end up attracting people that you don't even lie
and like you said, like it's so draining and you're
so burnt out. It's kind of like a friendship, you know,
when you just know that you want a person and
you really actually don't get along that well, Like there
(09:03):
really isn't much like chemistry completely platronically of course, and
you don't remain friends with those people, like you don't
message them, you know, text them, you don't really want
to hang out with them. But with dating, it's like
the stakes are so high that you give these people second, third,
fourth chances and then you're both exhausted during the relationship
(09:23):
and then afterwards you probably feel a sense of like,
but I did all these things, I did everything right
and it didn't work out. Like that's the whole Like,
that's the whole cycle that I think really frustrates.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
People absolutely, And we call it in our book actually
the validation trap. This is something that's getting in people's
way because dating is no longer a way to just
meet new people and have fun and see who the
right matches. It's basically measuring our self worth and that
comes from all the pressure with dating. And you know,
(09:55):
you and I really fundamentally believe We've talked to like
thousands of daters. We've seen people that you know, felt
really hopeless. So I felt like I've never had a
real relationship or I just don't know how to date.
Are now in super healthy relationships. So we really believe that,
like everyone is datable. That is a core message that
we have. But it's modern dating norms that are getting
(10:17):
in the way. So you asked earlier, like what are
some of the biggest mistakes that it's coming to modern
dating culture? Like we had one of our friends come
on the podcast and she was saying, how like in
every other part of life, she's like, go get her
she you know, makes plans proactively. If someone asks to
meet up in a business context, she's on it. A
(10:38):
friend asked to meet up, she does it. But in
dating she feels like because like everyone else is putting
in less and less effort, it makes her do the same.
So then she ghosts because they ghost and it's a cycle.
She drops to what she called the lowest common denominator
and art and her thing was, well, if someone's going
(10:59):
to give me ten percent, I'll give them nine percent.
And our take was, why not give them zero percent?
Like they're showing you what they're giving you know what
you want to give? Like, how do you rise above
dating culture? Not just do the thing because that's how
dating works.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
And this validation validation cycle of validation trap trap even better, Yeah, neither.
You don't want to be in either of them. Let's
just avoid with the validation trap. Like, how does it
keep us in those same unsustaining relationships or situationships or
(11:43):
dating the wrong people?
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Yeah, because you are constantly tying your self worth to
other people's behaviors and your perceived perception of how they
see you. That even me just saying that sentence is
so exhausting right, because you're constantly like who you are,
what your worth is a product of how someone else
(12:08):
treats you. That's not how life should be. You know
your worth and you know what you're putting out there.
You know what you bring to the table. Why have
other people dictate that? So the danger with a validation
trap is you never fully stand strong and who you are.
You're not rooted. Your branches are just tied to all
(12:29):
these other people who are moving in every which direction. Like,
imagine how weak that tree is if they have no
roots but branches tied to all the other trees. You
would end up just being like we call this a
dating chameleon, where you just, you know, pretend your other
people to try to fit into other people's lives.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
I think one of the biggest challenges I had personally
was situationships. It was like, even before the tree existed,
I was the queen of situationships, always in them all
through my twenties and even to my early thirties, and
finally I was able to crack that luckily. But I
think the biggest piece was with validation is that one
(13:14):
I think I just didn't know what love actually should
look like and what a healthy relationship was, but also
it was this cycle of wanting the approval of someone
and feeling like I could win them over, and you know,
I'd already invested so much energy the sun cost fallacy.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
I'm just going to keep going.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
And it was so tied to my ego that like
I wanted to win, but I was like winning by
settling for someone that didn't even really want to be
with me, Like that's not winning at all. And I
think rejection also ties to that. When we're so tied
to validation, we want to avoid rejection at all costs.
And then like the most recent time I was dating,
(13:56):
before I met my partner, now three years plus, I
just lost all of that. Like I got to the
point where I was just like I'm going to show
up as myself. If someone doesn't want to be with me,
then like I'm gonna move on, and they're clearing my
path to find the right person. But it took a
lot of reframing to get to that point and not
fall for validation trap anymore.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
And I'm sure like even with all the knowledge you had,
it's still very instinctive. Oh yeah, it's just you know,
it's basic human psychology, like you want what you can't have,
like you end up being led by construction. Yeah exactly,
it's fomo. Everyone else has these relationships and you're like,
if I can just make this work, like I can
(14:38):
take that off my list as well. It's so interesting
because literally this morning, I've been with my partner for
like two years now. We have the best relationship, and
this morning my ex situationship messaged me out of the
bloot right before I.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Come back back, and I was like, uh huh hi, and.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
He sent me like this meme about how you know,
as we're recording this, like the US election is going on,
and he sent me this meme about like how Kamala
Harris is like banning all situationships and like any like
anyone who's in a like who creates a situation ship
like should go straight to jail. And it was so
(15:22):
I was like, where the fuck is this coming from? Mate,
Like I haven't spoken to you in like three years,
and still thinking about me like I'm with this amazing person.
Now you know that I'm with this person. But he
messaged me, and I got this feeling in my stomach.
It like did a flip, and I was just like
oh my god, and I just felt all of these
emotions all over again. And I remember, like, like, you know,
(15:45):
three months ago, I was like why was I, you know,
for a while, and like why was I ever in
that situation? And I was like, because he knew how
to make me really anxious and he knew how to
Like I think, I say this a lot. It comes
down to like being a bit of an overachiever and
a bit of a actionist. Like everything else in my life,
much like your friend, right, I had to work hard
(16:05):
for and there was this whole sense that like what's easy,
Like if it was easy, everyone could have it. So
the relationship that was most hard to obtain, the person's
attention that was most hard to obtain, was the one
that I should focus on. And I think that made
me incredibly anxious and he really knew how to leverage that.
And it was just this wild feeling of being like wow,
I'm like straight back in this in this time for
just that second, I feel exactly how that felt, and
(16:30):
it gave me like a sense of forgiveness of like yeah, no,
no wonder, no wonder, Like I was getting so wrapped
up in this when we were in those situations you
like everything is just playing on this like instinctual anxious drive,
this sense of like I need to find stability here,
and the only way I can find stability is to
(16:53):
like reach the conclusion of this relationship and make it
into something more. I just think that, Like, I don't
know if that's been your experience, but that was the
real reason I found myself in situationships for a very
long time as well.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
One hundred percent. I can relate to everything you just said.
In our book, we actually have a quiz of like
what type of dater you are? I'm curious if you
took it, but I was an achiever dreamer, and that
combination was kind of a baby guessing that is what
you are.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Yea, yeah, it actually was.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Yeah, Okay, that's the exact notion that I had too,
of like, you know, I imagine this fantasy with this
person and like for you know, everyone can take the
quiz even if you don't have the book, and go
to our website and take the quiz.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
But like it's so fascinating because it's all about like
what are your strengths that you bring to dating, but
then also what holds you back? And I think in
that situation, it was like this getting ahead of yourself,
making something, romanticizing it. This is also natural. That's why,
like with all of this that we talk about, it's
like these are just traps that everyone's falling for because
(18:07):
it's instinctual to how dating and modern dating work, and
this deed to like win comes from this achiever's mindset
of like I still want to like get this person.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
One hundred percent. And like you said, what is bedding?
I'm the wedding is being with someone who doesn't even
want to be with me. Like that doesn't seem like
a great price. I'm sorry, Like that seems pretty crap.
How do you think how do you think we can
stop ourselves from really getting carried away in the early days,
Because sometimes I find sometimes, you know, I've now been
(18:40):
with my partner for a while, so not recently, but
when I was dating, and what a lot of people
do ask me, is I meet this person and suddenly
I'm fantasizing about the wedding that we're going to have
in three years we've been on one day. Is that
like just infatuation or is that a sign of like something?
(19:00):
How do you stop that from getting in the way
of actually getting to know each other.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Yeah, it's just such a great question because so many
of us fall into that. And I would argue that
it's very healthy to fantasize about a future with someone.
If you don't do that, then maybe you don't have
a heart right, Like it's good to feel like the
warm and fuzzies about someone and be like, oh my gosh,
maybe we could have a family together. But this sounds
(19:27):
like typical dreamer where you get so ahead of yourself
that you get wrapped and wrapped up in the story
and then you forget about the reality of what's happening.
So you know, even in the book, we always tell
everybody to just like fact check, write down all the
things that are real, all the things you are feeling,
(19:49):
and then just know that you can't observe all of
this and all of this can exist at once. Don't
feel bad for feeling this way, but also it's good
to to do a reality check every once in a while. Okay,
it's only been three days. Okay, I don't even know
their middle name, Like okay, like we have we haven't
had a conversation for longer than two hours, Like it's
(20:11):
good to just bring you back to reality. But it's
okay if you fantasize every once in a while, like
it's natural to do that.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
And in today's dating culture too, we call it the
expectation of love on demand. Another trap that gets in
our yay because in today's world, everything happens at lightning speed, right,
Like you can get an uber and you can order
a meal and all the things like at the touch
of your fingertips, and of course you expect that in
dating too. So with this, like as soon as we
(20:43):
meet someone that we like, we often get ahead of
ourselves and we start imagining this future. And also couple
in that people are really frustrated by dating and just
want to get out. So it's all this like perfect
storm of you know, maybe not giving other people that
could be potentially better partners for the long haul enough time,
(21:04):
and then focusing on people that we don't really know.
Like Ua said, I really had to get realistic because
this was a huge problem of mine. I remember even
like when I met my partner now though, like I
remember my best friend being like, so, do you think
you'll go out with him?
Speaker 4 (21:19):
Again?
Speaker 2 (21:19):
And I'm like, you know, if I do that, would
be awesome, And if I don't, that's also okay, because
I have no idea what's going on in his life
after going out with him one time, and I think
it really took conscious unlearning of those patterns.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
I guess the other thing that really factors into this
and listening to you too, you both talk about it,
is this idea that like you should have this passionate
or consuming spot your everybody's love stories, and there's this
huge idea of like you should know within the first
like five minutes, like real love won't hide and if
you have to like take time and be patient with it,
(21:56):
like obviously it's not the one for you. It is.
Also it comes down to like if you wanted to,
if she wanted to, they would yeah, which I am like, yeah, okay,
Like I get I do get it. I think it's
like a nice philosophy, but sometimes, like you said, there's
other things happening in their life. Maybe they do really
want to but they can't. But also it gives us
(22:19):
expectation of like grand gestures and huge commitment very very quickly.
Sometimes like the best love comes from slowing down and
comes from taking your time. How do we do that
that's like the million dollar question, how do you like
slow down, actually enjoy dating, actually enjoy the process and
(22:40):
getting to know someone in this like love on demand environment,
in this like very urgent society that we live in.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Oh, such a beautiful observation. I will tell you I
spent my twenties being addicted to love and my thirties
chasing that high. And now being in my four I
realized that was all a ruths like that was not
that That's not what relationships are about. So I think
it's it's good to know that, you know, Oh, I
(23:12):
really chase the butterflies, or I'm chasing that grand passionate feeling,
because as long as you are observing that, you know
that's happening to you. But the second step to that
is to say, am I feeling this passion for this
person because they haven't called me back in two days
and I've now written this novel about them and I'm
(23:35):
now addicted to the story of this person Or are
they actually showing signs of being a good partner That's
why I'm feeling love and passion for them. And in
my twenties, I will tell you I was chasing after
people who were the first How I described in the
first way is they were not available, but I was
so connected to the story of who they were that
(24:00):
I began chasing, not them, with these fantasy characters. So
now I can look back on that and say, Okay,
I'm glad I went through that experience, but this is
I think this is the biggest shift for me in
how I turn that around. My friend Amy told me
this because I asked her, like, why do you want
to get married, why do you want to have kids,
(24:21):
why do you want any of this stuff in life?
And she said, it's not the achievements or the milestones,
it's I want to learn how I can expand my
heart to the fullest. And I thought that was such
a beautiful way of putting relationships and dating is it's
not about the end result or getting someone or chasing
(24:42):
this milestone. It's what can you do to love the
fullest at each opportunity, and even if that person doesn't
stay forever, you are using that opportunity to expand your heart.
And I really hope that everybody can take that expansion
in mind when they're dating, because it's it makes us
(25:04):
so much more of a beautiful enjoyable and like self
focus experience.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Absolutely, it's also this sense of like what are you
rushing towards? You know, what's the rush? And I know
people are always like, well, I just want to do
all these things with them, and I'm like, if you're
going to be with them forever, they will happen, and
you don't want to squeeze a whole relationship into like
four years and then be like, wait, we actually never
(25:31):
really like got to know each other. I always say,
it's like you've got to enjoy enjoy the waiting rooms, right.
There are periods in your life when you're in a
waiting room and it's kind of like ooh, like you know,
I'm not I'm not like coming to the destination. I'm
not at my destination. I'm just kind of in the middle.
And I do think that relationships have those rooms as well,
(25:52):
where it's like, Okay, this is the time when we
can like sit and slow down and have a chat
and like pick up a magazine and like just really
you fill out some forms, really get to know each other.
Like I really value that in my own relationship is
you know, early days, like it's only been two years
as it is it really does mean that there is
(26:13):
a trust built there and I and I know that
the bedrock of my relationship is not excitement. There is
excitement in there, but the bedrock is like true liking
and knowledge, and like you said, like my heart has
room to expand. It's like when you blow up a
balloon slily rather than just like giving one big push
(26:33):
and like it explodes everywhere.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
So I like that advice a lot. I think this
is easier sound than dumb. But we need to like
remember the long game here, like I don't. We've had
these conversations with people that you know, got married super
early and are now divorced, and they were saying how
they felt like they lacked the communication skills, the relational skills,
(26:56):
they just didn't do it because you know, they're just
every just fell into place and it worked out. And
of course it was like, I'm not saying that every
couple that gets married early this is going to happen
to And I think if you are in the situation
where you're like I've been dating for a while, it's
hard remember that it's all going to something like you're
learning at every step of the way here. And I
(27:19):
really think that like, dating is the perfect opportunity to
test out and train yourself and practice saying what you need.
And we're always so afraid to in dating because we're like,
we don't know this person well enough. I don't want
to scare them away. But if we turn it like
why not scare away the wrong people? Like that's filtering
people out for you. And then also like I mean,
(27:43):
I know, for me, a huge pivotal point was when
I was like, Okay, I'm going to date with my
own needs at the forefront. So that involved getting clear
about what those deeds even were what I wanted, because
in the past, I was like the hitchhiker along for
everyone else's ride. That's why I was in all the situationships.
But then when you are able to turn it on yourself,
(28:05):
then you're in control and you're making those decisions, and
you can also look at it like this person isn't
the right one for me, not just I need to
be saved and get done with this.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Oh my goodness, words I had wished I heard a
long time ago, three or four years ago. Those would
have been incredibly helpful, but I had to learn it
the hardway. We're going to take a short break, but
when we return, I'm going to talk more about how
to date seriously and how to know if someone is
the right one. I've got a more serious question. I
(28:41):
feel like the first half of this episode we talked
about getting to know someone, doing some of the work
in yourself around what kind of data you are, how
you canel about going slow. Say you are with someone,
it's getting serious, you are having fun, you're vibing, neither
of you are seeing other people. It's exclusive. If you
have doubts, what if you still have questions lingering in
(29:04):
the back of your mind, like three four, five months in,
is that something that you should call it quits over
or is it worth kind of giving them the grace
and gift of time to see if it works.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Yeah, And this goes back to our expectation of love
on demand too. People feel like they need to know
right away and also have no doubts in early dating,
and it's so you're gonna hopeway's gonna have doubts. That's
the reality of relationships too. Relationships evolve and you're gonna
have moments where you're like, am I with the right person?
(29:39):
So in our book, we actually make it very clear.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
We have a.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Perfect partner equation, so you can just follow that formula
and really it's a plug and chug, but also it
grounds you into what matters in choosing a partner, and
like we really bully down to like there are only
seven things that matter, and like one of them is consistency,
like as this person consistently showing up for you. But
(30:06):
here's the thing though, like with we can do all
the overthinking thinking because their thinker is one of the
dating archetypes as well. This person's going to be like
every moment, is this the right person? This is the
right person? At some point you just got to say
this is the right person until they're not the right person.
We see this with so many relationships that span years
and years. They're right until they're not, and that's okay.
(30:30):
Like they do not need to be the right person forever.
There they are right for you based on your core needs,
your values, et cetera. And that's all you really need
to hold on to. You don't have to think of
like one hundred years down the line.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
I think it's understanding why you're having the hesitation too,
Like Ua was saying, is it something that's core to
your values or the way you feel or your futures
aren't a lunch. I just gave away some of the
perfect partner equation. And or is it that like stuff
from your past is coming up that's causing you to
feel that anxiety, Because I think there's a big different
(31:08):
difference if you're with the wrong person because you're fundamentally
not aligned versus the normal anxieties that happen in relationships.
And like I know, for me, I thought like once
I met that person, it'd be all easy because the
anxiety and the difficult part was in the dating. Because
I met someone and I'm like, oh, this is like
(31:30):
the type of person I was looking for. You know,
everything on the outside is healthy, But what I've learned
is like even in the healthiest relationships, we get triggered.
Stuff comes up from our past, and there's a big
differentiator if this person is wrong for you or it's
coming from the back.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
I love the way that you put that, because I
do think that there were so many amazing people out
there for us. We will never choose just one if
we constantly think that the grass is greener. And of course,
there is an important distinction between like you said, you know,
you have this beautiful relationship equation. There is an important
(32:10):
distinction between, you know, not feeling certain because of big
questions and not feeling certain because you're like, ooh, could
I have something more exciting? You know, could I have
the butterflies again? I honestly see this a lot with
people in their twenties, where they're like, oh my god,
my relationship just feels so stable, almost so used to
(32:31):
chasing the high of early love that you know. I
had a friend who was in this gorgeous, beautiful relationship.
She left it for for similar reasons, and they are
now back together because she was like, I just realized
that actually this person was amazing. They were everything that
I wanted. I was just looking for something that actually
(32:53):
a past version of me wanted more, which was something
exhilarating and intoxicating and addictive. Is that the relationship that's
gonna take me till my thirties, to my forties to
my fifties. Is that the relationship I want to raise
children within? Probably not, probably not, But there are sometimes
those situations. And you guys have this amazing episode which
(33:15):
I'm just gonna plug here because it's so good about
whether you should leave a good relation, whether you should
leave a good not great relationship. And if that is
the case, this relationship is like it's fine, it's okay,
it's no amazing, and you do decide to leave, how
do you get over the fear of never finding someone better?
(33:38):
If this is in your stars, if this is in
your path, this relationship isn't right, how do you stop
yourself from staying for longer than you should?
Speaker 3 (33:48):
Yeah. So I was forty two years old when I
found out my partner of five years had been cheating
on me. We were making plans to start a family.
I was we were in the middle of trying to
conceive when I found all the text messages that nobody
should ever read from their partner. So here's the thing.
(34:09):
After this breakup, and it was hard, it was devastating.
I realized, if I can get through this on my own,
then I am perfectly great. Like this is If this
is the default of my life is to be strong
and independent and be like this warrior on my own,
(34:34):
then anybody who comes in my life is just additive.
So having that kind of reset going back into dating,
it was so refreshing because I didn't feel like I
needed to hold on to people. I knew that whoever
was meant for me will be in my life, and
whoever was not meant for me will naturally filter themselves out.
(34:56):
I did not need to force people to be in
my life. I did not need to force people to
be in relationship with me, and that allowed me to
attract the right people because these were people like, oh,
her life is great. I want to add to it.
I want to be a better part of this life,
like rate come along. But I don't need a relationship.
(35:17):
I don't need a partner. When we see when we
have the scarcity mindset, we feel like we need someone
to save us, like a relationship is going to bring
us to this island where everybody's safe and fed and roofed,
And that's like, that's not how it works, right, Like
it just relationships won't save you if you can't save yourself.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
I think, though it's natural what you were saying, like,
especially like we tie in like a present bias, right
we look at what's in front of us currently as
like having more weight than what could be in the future,
and it's really hard to see that something better could
be around the quarter, Like looking at uas situation. I
feel like you're in a much better or a relationship
(36:01):
now at place now, but in the thick of that breakup,
you could not see that. You could not know that.
So it's a really hard situation that makes us often
overstay things that aren't working. I think the hardest one too,
is like when it's a good relationship, like nothing's wrong,
but you're just like, is there something more fulfilling for me?
(36:23):
And of course we recommend you know, having all the conversations,
doing the work, going to couple's therapy, not just throwing
in the towel at one feeling of that. But if
you keep feeling that and you're like, fundamentally I know
this person isn't right for me, you also have to
honor that too, and honor that and trust that something
will be out there that is better serve for you,
(36:46):
because if you're fundamentally feeling that way, then like you
do deserve something more, and so does the person you're with.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
I was gonna say, yeah, so does the person you're
a Wait, I imagine if you were with a pot
and who was looking you right, I just don't like,
I'm not going to leave them because you know they're
good not great? Right? That would that would break my
heart if my boyfriend or my partner was like, yeah
she's she's okay, but I'm too scared to leave her. Yeah,
and that's going to be the rest of my life.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Like absolutely not saw it to that person took and to.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Yourself, like, yes, you owe it to yourself as well,
because that's still your reality. And I love what you
said of like, Okay, you might not find a better relationship,
but you'll find yourself. And isn't that just as valuable
because there are people who go through their entire lives
who do not find that. And I say that with
the most serious level of gravity having seen it and
(37:45):
in family members of mine actually who I'm like, you know,
you married like the first person you met and now
you're like seventy eighty, and like, I can just see that,
only now you're figuring yourself out, as you know, as
a someone who's older. And it's beautiful that they're getting
that opportunity, but it is something that you need to
take seriously. You can't like there's never going to be
(38:08):
a good time to end a relationship ever, and there's
never gonna be like the final, you know, especially if
you're with someone who's like really great and like kind
and happy, like if you're waiting for them to like
screw up as an excuse to like break up with them,
I honestly think that's a little bit manipulative as well,
because you're going to push them into those situations where
they're gonna have to take, like take the reins like
(38:32):
I love the I think the overarching theme of everything
you guys say is like being the driver's seat of
your love life, and that also means having Like, if
you're gonna be in the driver's seat, you've also got
to make some hard calls that might include, you know,
leaving someone who is good not great.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
But we are saying actually inspired. Something that we talk
Julie and I talk about all the time is sometimes
we evaluate our relationships on the wrong things, like, oh,
this person's so nice and faithful and kind, like I
should stay with them because they are a good person. Well,
(39:11):
you like, just being with someone because they're a good
person doesn't actually do anything for anybody. You want to
be with a partner who is committed to growing with you,
who's committed to expanding the relationship with you. The minute
your partner shuts down or you shut down from that growth,
that relationship is over because you can no longer evolve
(39:34):
that relationship no matter how kind or nice or great
this person is. So instead of like us being like, oh,
I can't leave a person who's so nice and great,
I would have just challenged people to say, have you
set up your partner for success in terms of how
we've had discussions about growing together and where can we
expand more into where can we be better at in
(39:57):
our relationship and see if partners receptive to that. Just
like hanging your hat on someone being a good person
or nice, it's just not enough, simply not enough for
a relationship.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
So this is an interesting tidbit. But like when we
did that episode, there was a specific couple that had
come to us that was in mind, and they actually
stayed together and years later they are super happy and
the doubts are gone, which is fascinating because your instinct
is to be like leave, go find someone else. But
(40:33):
I think that actually goes back to like some of
the challenges with modern dating, that's always the instinct, and
that's why we're kind of in or headed towards what
we're calling the love crisis where dating is so hard
that people don't want to do it anymore, or the
mental health aspect is getting so out of control that
you wonder like is it even worth it? And if
(40:54):
we're always onto the decks, we can never develop the relationship.
So I like that example because it's like what you
were saying, you a of like when you look at
what's missing, how are you looking at it? And can
you have that like come to conversation of like how
do we move that barrier? And then if you've done
(41:15):
all the work and you're still not there, at least
you know you did it instead of just moving on.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
I love that, and I like, I really like this
realistic approach of like look at the right things and
the order I've gotten that saying of like relationships or work.
I used to be so scared of that saying. We
used to be like no, no, no, no, it should
be easy. Yes, but like you go to the gym
(41:42):
when you want to, like you look after your body,
that's hard work, but you still enjoy it and everything
is worked exactly. Anything that's good is work and is
a choice. I actually think that like the easiest things
in life aren't always worth having. You know, it's easy
to like be passive in your life. It's easy to
sit on the couch and it's easy to like eat
(42:04):
the food that's like on your way home, and it's
easy to do X y Z. Is that going to
put you in the best place? Probably not. Same goes
for a relationship at times, especially like I don't know,
especially when there is just so much about them that
you do really like and that is important. I know
we're giving like conflicting advice here, guys, but I think
(42:26):
the basis of what we're saying is if you have
an instinct that maybe this relationship isn't right for you,
investigate it further. Is it for a reason that is
something that you can work on, or is it something
fundamental about your character and your plans and your visions.
The first step is definitely to really test that out
with your partner and really do the work and the interrogation.
(42:48):
If they are someone who is genuinely a great person
for you, and then it's kind of up to you. Like,
maybe the reason our advice is like this way and
that way is because there is no one answer. But
I love the analogy that that couple, it's hot warming.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
I think the question too, is like what's hard, because like,
if you're like constantly trying to get attention from a
situationship that is telling you outright that they don't want
to commit to you, that's not the right relationship for you.
But if it's hard because it's actually making you confront
parts of yourself and you know, feelings that are coming
(43:23):
up or emotions that you've stuffed away, that's like the
right type of heart that's challenging you to be a
better person. So again, I think it is conflicting, but
we have to come back to like what the root
is of like what is actually the hard mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
I love that. Now we have to wrap up because
I've just gone completely.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
I've got a complete It's.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Like I was going to ask you every single dating
question I've ever had. I think to finish the episode,
and I ask a lot of my guests this, what
would each of you pick one thing the best piece
of advice that you would give you a twenty something
your old self around dating. What do you wish that
you had known back then that the listeners can know now?
Speaker 2 (44:12):
I think for me, it's trust in your timing, especially
in your twenties, there's so much pressure to you know,
meet these artificial milestones, and it's so much better to
take your time and be with the right person. Again,
it goes back to the long game, and you know,
getting into this mindset to of I'm the one in control,
(44:35):
I'm figuring this out. It's not the apps, it's not
my city, it's not all other people, like I'm the
one leading is so empowering too. So if you can
combine those two mindsets of like, you know, things will
work out for me, Especially if I make this a
priority with I'm in the driver's seat, then I think
that really sets you up for a lot more success.
Speaker 3 (44:59):
I think been asking the question you just asked, it's
a really good way to think about dating. The question is,
if you're, let's say, in your thirties or forties, what
did you learn in your twenties about dating? Ask yourself
that question in your twenties, you know, ask yourself, like,
in this situation I'm in right now, ten years down
(45:20):
the line, what would I tell that person that I
learned from it. I think in the twenties, you don't
need to be like I have to figure it all out,
and I have to get it all right because you'll
never get it all right or figure it all out.
But it's such a great place with so much freedom
to play and to experiment and discover. Just know that
(45:42):
you are intentional about the discovery process. You're not repeating
the same patterns of behavior that every moment is teaching
you something so that when you do reach thirty, you
go yep. In my twenties, I learned all of this,
Like I have a whole list of things I learned.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
And also, like your dating life and life doesn't end
at thirty, there is such a pressure to hy make
sure that you've like picked up a partner along the way.
Oh my god, absolutely not good. No, you have so
much time. You have so much time. So I want
to thank you both for coming on to the show.
I also really want to plug your book How to
(46:20):
Be Datable by the time it comes out on January
twenty eighth, correct.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Yeah, yeah, And it's incredible.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
It's a really good book and it's practical and it's helpful,
and it's modern and there's just so many nuggets of
wisdom in it. So I'll leave a link to pre
order the book in the description of this episode. Where
can the listeners find your podcast? Where can they find you? Both?
Speaker 2 (46:45):
So many pleasers, We're all over the internet, but really,
wherever podcasts are? Apple Podcasts, Spotify and yeah, datablepodcast dot
com or how toobe datable dot com.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
Brilliant Again, thank you so much for coming on and
for your beautiful advice for us twenty somethings. I hope
that you, guys the listeners enjoyed this episode. Everything else
that you need will be in the link your own
the description of this episode. Make sure that you leave
a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you
are listening. Give us a follow so you know when
(47:21):
new episodes are coming up, especially with twelve months of
guests happening. At the moment, we have some more amazing
guests on their way. And until next time, stay safe,
be kind, to be gentle to yourself. We will talk soon.
Hello everybody, well, welcome back to the show. Welcome back
to the podcast, new listeners, old listeners. Wherever you are
in the world, it is so great to have you here.
Back for another episode, as we, of course break down
some of the psychology of our twenties. I'm going to
come right out and say it. The biggest questions that
(00:20):
we have in our twenties, and the questions that I
get the most of, revolve around dating, Like how exactly
are we meant to do this? How do I stop
getting attached so quickly? How do I know if this
person likes me, if I even like them, how do
I find the one and not be completely exhausted by
the process? Or the biggest question of all, is this
(00:42):
something that I should even be prioritizing during my twenties?
You know? Alternatively, could this be my decade to just
be like free and uninhibited and not worry about this process.
I think that I'm there with you, and so many
of us are. It is occasionally, you know, is more
trouble than it's worth. But I also deeply believe that
(01:03):
dating shouldn't be a chore. It should be something that's
fun and exciting and that you don't feel any pressure
towards and that there is some pretty amazing ways to
go about it that bring us to this point. The
question that that leaves us with it, I know I'm
full of a lot of questions, is how do we
get there? How do we get to that point? And
to give us the expert advice on how to date,
(01:24):
when to date, and who to date in your twenties,
we have the host of the outstanding podcast Datable, Julie
and Yue. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Thanks for having for having us.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I love your voice. I'm soon by your voice right now.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Thanks so much. Guys, you know a little bit of
ASMR to kick se out just on morning. Can you
introduce yourself and introduce Datable? Who are you guys? Who
is what is the show? O?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Yes, We're going to get right into it. We've had
this podcast for almost a decade. We were in Julie
and I were introduced by a mutual friend over a
decade ago actually, and we were just sharing what do
you call them war stories of dating, like what have
you survived? And we thought it was such a great
(02:16):
way to share what's going on in modern dating, share
our own experiences and not feel like we're alone in it,
so we decided to do a podcast out of it.
But since then, we've really evolved the way we see
modern dating. We think we are at a point where
people are very fed up with dating. It's dating is
harder than ever, but also it gives us the best
(02:38):
opportunity to date right now. And we can go into
that more later, and we go into it in our book.
But the two of us come from kind of like this.
We straddle the old and the new. So, you know,
I'm like, I'm like the first millennial, so I'm you know,
I was born in eighty one, so I'm the first millennial.
And I just remember growing up with all these rules
(03:02):
about dating, very traditional ways of looking at gender roles,
and now with modern dating, we're straddling kind of a
progressive view of dating. So I was feeling lost because
I only knew kind of the traditional ways of dating,
like who pays for what, and who should text and
who should initiate, And here I was in a world
(03:23):
where all the rules are kind of thrown out the window,
and I had to recreate a love life that worked
for me, and I didn't know where to start. So
that's where I was when I met Julie.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, and where I was. I don't think I ever
set out to be a dating expert, so it still
makes me laugh every day. But I was just as
confused as probably many people that are listening are right
this minute of just Where to Date. I got all
the old books. We were kind of talking about that
before we got on here. You know why men love
bitches and you know the rules. And I thought I
(03:56):
would approach dating like I did like schoolwork or job,
and really study up and learn all the ways to
navigate it. And I think that's why those books were
so appealing, because they gave you a framework. The problem
was I was not myself at all in the process,
and I just remember friends being like, you're so social,
you have so many friends, Like why does dating not stick?
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Ever?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
And I was just lost. And you know, I think
when I met you a, I was actually coming out
of like my first real serious relationship. And at that
point I was like, you know, I found someone, I
did it, I made it work, and then it didn't
and it wasn't because the love wasn't there. I realized,
just like not all the time things happen the way
(04:42):
like we're told they are and like in the movies,
and you know, this simplistic view of relationships, and I
think it just made us both really curious on the
topic and want to dive in even more.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
I love that this was like an accidental career feed both.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Oh hundred, Rissa, You're gravitated to things right that you
like struggle with.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Oh, you know, the psychology of your twenties. I have
no idea what I'm doing. That's the whole reason I'm
doing this.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
But you know what you do, and then you learn
all the gut along the way, right, And now.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
I just get to interview really smart experts and they
just give me all the tips, like yourself. But I
do think that you raised a really interesting point, which
is that dating in this day and age is very different,
and I think that a lot of us are bringing
very outdated ideas of what that looks like. Outdated ideas
(05:38):
of like, what are the games that we have to play,
what are the rules to follow? Blah blah blah blah blah.
Why do you think that those rules are actually you know, no,
I don't know. I don't want to say worsening our chances,
but making it so much harder for us to actually
enjoy the process.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Well, if you think about it, dating is for you.
You're not dating for other people. Yet we are restrained
by these rules that other people have created for us,
these social constructs that are not serving us for most
part and not helping us in any way. So just
(06:17):
by virtue of saying there are these rules already puts
us in a box and doesn't free us from being
our most authentic selves in dating.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yeah, I think this is kind of a weird response
as to dating experts, But one of the things we've
realized in our decade is you actually don't need to
be good at dating. Maybe it's actually hurting you because
the way dating is operates today. We're not saying to
not date. It's maybe to change how we date, but
the way it operates today, it's all centered around disconnection
(06:48):
when all we really crave is connection and the games.
Like we hear, you know, people are like, well, I'm
over the games. I don't do that, But then we
hear them say like, oh, but you know, I'm gonna
wait half an hour to text that person back because
they didn't text me back right away. That's a game,
and it's like as baked into dating culture that we
(07:09):
don't always even realize when we're playing games.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
I really like that point. It's like, is the biggest
mistake that we're making not being authentic? Like is it
just seriously back to basics? Oh my god, there we go, done?
Episode over And that was actually gonna be one of
my questions. I was going to be that you guys
are the dating experts. What's the biggest mistake that we're
(07:35):
that we're making. What's the thing we're getting wrong about dating?
Is it you know that we're not authentic? And is
it that we're trying to be someone that we're not
in the first week, month, day, year of dating someone.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
I mean, you did a recent episode about dating burnout,
and we truly believe that you feel burnt out when
you are not true to yourself because you're exerting more
energy to be something you're not. That's how you get
burned out. But if you're authentic to who you are
and your needs, then you feel energized, like dating should
feel energizing if you're doing it in a way that
(08:09):
serves you, right, So I think you're onto something there, Gemma.
Maybe the biggest issue is we're all trying to be
something we're not, and that's what's causing us to be
burnt out, to feel overwhelmed, to feel completely failed by
modern dating, when we just need to take the control
back and say, I am in the driver's seat of
(08:31):
my love life and I will make every choice, every action,
every behavior is in line with what I authentically stand for,
not with society or other people want for me.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
I also feel like when with what you were saying,
then when you put on this like false persona, right,
you end up attracting people that you don't even lie
and like you said, like it's so draining and you're
so burnt out. It's kind of like a friendship, you know,
when you just know that you want a person and
you really actually don't get along that well, Like there
(09:03):
really isn't much like chemistry completely platronically of course, and
you don't remain friends with those people, like you don't
message them, you know, text them, you don't really want
to hang out with them. But with dating, it's like
the stakes are so high that you give these people second, third,
fourth chances and then you're both exhausted during the relationship
(09:23):
and then afterwards you probably feel a sense of like,
but I did all these things, I did everything right
and it didn't work out. Like that's the whole Like,
that's the whole cycle that I think really frustrates.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
People absolutely, And we call it in our book actually
the validation trap. This is something that's getting in people's
way because dating is no longer a way to just
meet new people and have fun and see who the
right matches. It's basically measuring our self worth and that
comes from all the pressure with dating. And you know,
(09:55):
you and I really fundamentally believe We've talked to like
thousands of daters. We've seen people that you know, felt
really hopeless. So I felt like I've never had a
real relationship or I just don't know how to date.
Are now in super healthy relationships. So we really believe that,
like everyone is datable. That is a core message that
we have. But it's modern dating norms that are getting
(10:17):
in the way. So you asked earlier, like what are
some of the biggest mistakes that it's coming to modern
dating culture? Like we had one of our friends come
on the podcast and she was saying, how like in
every other part of life, she's like, go get her
she you know, makes plans proactively. If someone asks to
meet up in a business context, she's on it. A
(10:38):
friend asked to meet up, she does it. But in
dating she feels like because like everyone else is putting
in less and less effort, it makes her do the same.
So then she ghosts because they ghost and it's a cycle.
She drops to what she called the lowest common denominator
and art and her thing was, well, if someone's going
(10:59):
to give me ten percent, I'll give them nine percent.
And our take was, why not give them zero percent?
Like they're showing you what they're giving you know what
you want to give? Like, how do you rise above
dating culture? Not just do the thing because that's how
dating works.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
And this validation validation cycle of validation trap trap even better, Yeah, neither.
You don't want to be in either of them. Let's
just avoid with the validation trap. Like, how does it
keep us in those same unsustaining relationships or situationships or
(11:43):
dating the wrong people?
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Yeah, because you are constantly tying your self worth to
other people's behaviors and your perceived perception of how they
see you. That even me just saying that sentence is
so exhausting right, because you're constantly like who you are,
what your worth is a product of how someone else
(12:08):
treats you. That's not how life should be. You know
your worth and you know what you're putting out there.
You know what you bring to the table. Why have
other people dictate that? So the danger with a validation
trap is you never fully stand strong and who you are.
You're not rooted. Your branches are just tied to all
(12:29):
these other people who are moving in every which direction. Like,
imagine how weak that tree is if they have no
roots but branches tied to all the other trees. You
would end up just being like we call this a
dating chameleon, where you just, you know, pretend your other
people to try to fit into other people's lives.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
I think one of the biggest challenges I had personally
was situationships. It was like, even before the tree existed,
I was the queen of situationships, always in them all
through my twenties and even to my early thirties, and
finally I was able to crack that luckily. But I
think the biggest piece was with validation is that one
(13:14):
I think I just didn't know what love actually should
look like and what a healthy relationship was, but also
it was this cycle of wanting the approval of someone
and feeling like I could win them over, and you know,
I'd already invested so much energy the sun cost fallacy.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
I'm just going to keep going.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
And it was so tied to my ego that like
I wanted to win, but I was like winning by
settling for someone that didn't even really want to be
with me, Like that's not winning at all. And I
think rejection also ties to that. When we're so tied
to validation, we want to avoid rejection at all costs.
And then like the most recent time I was dating,
(13:56):
before I met my partner, now three years plus, I
just lost all of that. Like I got to the
point where I was just like I'm going to show
up as myself. If someone doesn't want to be with me,
then like I'm gonna move on, and they're clearing my
path to find the right person. But it took a
lot of reframing to get to that point and not
fall for validation trap anymore.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
And I'm sure like even with all the knowledge you had,
it's still very instinctive. Oh yeah, it's just you know,
it's basic human psychology, like you want what you can't have,
like you end up being led by construction. Yeah exactly,
it's fomo. Everyone else has these relationships and you're like,
if I can just make this work, like I can
(14:38):
take that off my list as well. It's so interesting
because literally this morning, I've been with my partner for
like two years now. We have the best relationship, and
this morning my ex situationship messaged me out of the
bloot right before I.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Come back back, and I was like, uh huh hi, and.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
He sent me like this meme about how you know,
as we're recording this, like the US election is going on,
and he sent me this meme about like how Kamala
Harris is like banning all situationships and like any like
anyone who's in a like who creates a situation ship
like should go straight to jail. And it was so
(15:22):
I was like, where the fuck is this coming from? Mate,
Like I haven't spoken to you in like three years,
and still thinking about me like I'm with this amazing person.
Now you know that I'm with this person. But he
messaged me, and I got this feeling in my stomach.
It like did a flip, and I was just like
oh my god, and I just felt all of these
emotions all over again. And I remember, like, like, you know,
(15:45):
three months ago, I was like why was I, you know,
for a while, and like why was I ever in
that situation? And I was like, because he knew how
to make me really anxious and he knew how to
Like I think, I say this a lot. It comes
down to like being a bit of an overachiever and
a bit of a actionist. Like everything else in my life,
much like your friend, right, I had to work hard
(16:05):
for and there was this whole sense that like what's easy,
Like if it was easy, everyone could have it. So
the relationship that was most hard to obtain, the person's
attention that was most hard to obtain, was the one
that I should focus on. And I think that made
me incredibly anxious and he really knew how to leverage that.
And it was just this wild feeling of being like wow,
I'm like straight back in this in this time for
just that second, I feel exactly how that felt, and
(16:30):
it gave me like a sense of forgiveness of like yeah, no,
no wonder, no wonder, Like I was getting so wrapped
up in this when we were in those situations you
like everything is just playing on this like instinctual anxious drive,
this sense of like I need to find stability here,
and the only way I can find stability is to
(16:53):
like reach the conclusion of this relationship and make it
into something more. I just think that, Like, I don't
know if that's been your experience, but that was the
real reason I found myself in situationships for a very
long time as well.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
One hundred percent. I can relate to everything you just said.
In our book, we actually have a quiz of like
what type of dater you are? I'm curious if you
took it, but I was an achiever dreamer, and that
combination was kind of a baby guessing that is what
you are.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Yea, yeah, it actually was.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Yeah, Okay, that's the exact notion that I had too,
of like, you know, I imagine this fantasy with this
person and like for you know, everyone can take the
quiz even if you don't have the book, and go
to our website and take the quiz.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
But like it's so fascinating because it's all about like
what are your strengths that you bring to dating, but
then also what holds you back? And I think in
that situation, it was like this getting ahead of yourself,
making something, romanticizing it. This is also natural. That's why,
like with all of this that we talk about, it's
like these are just traps that everyone's falling for because
(18:07):
it's instinctual to how dating and modern dating work, and
this deed to like win comes from this achiever's mindset
of like I still want to like get this person.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
One hundred percent. And like you said, what is bedding?
I'm the wedding is being with someone who doesn't even
want to be with me. Like that doesn't seem like
a great price. I'm sorry, Like that seems pretty crap.
How do you think how do you think we can
stop ourselves from really getting carried away in the early days,
Because sometimes I find sometimes, you know, I've now been
(18:40):
with my partner for a while, so not recently, but
when I was dating, and what a lot of people
do ask me, is I meet this person and suddenly
I'm fantasizing about the wedding that we're going to have
in three years we've been on one day. Is that
like just infatuation or is that a sign of like something?
(19:00):
How do you stop that from getting in the way
of actually getting to know each other.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Yeah, it's just such a great question because so many
of us fall into that. And I would argue that
it's very healthy to fantasize about a future with someone.
If you don't do that, then maybe you don't have
a heart right, Like it's good to feel like the
warm and fuzzies about someone and be like, oh my gosh,
maybe we could have a family together. But this sounds
(19:27):
like typical dreamer where you get so ahead of yourself
that you get wrapped and wrapped up in the story
and then you forget about the reality of what's happening.
So you know, even in the book, we always tell
everybody to just like fact check, write down all the
things that are real, all the things you are feeling,
(19:49):
and then just know that you can't observe all of
this and all of this can exist at once. Don't
feel bad for feeling this way, but also it's good
to to do a reality check every once in a while. Okay,
it's only been three days. Okay, I don't even know
their middle name, Like okay, like we have we haven't
had a conversation for longer than two hours, Like it's
(20:11):
good to just bring you back to reality. But it's
okay if you fantasize every once in a while, like
it's natural to do that.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
And in today's dating culture too, we call it the
expectation of love on demand. Another trap that gets in
our yay because in today's world, everything happens at lightning speed, right,
Like you can get an uber and you can order
a meal and all the things like at the touch
of your fingertips, and of course you expect that in
dating too. So with this, like as soon as we
(20:43):
meet someone that we like, we often get ahead of
ourselves and we start imagining this future. And also couple
in that people are really frustrated by dating and just
want to get out. So it's all this like perfect
storm of you know, maybe not giving other people that
could be potentially better partners for the long haul enough time,
(21:04):
and then focusing on people that we don't really know.
Like Ua said, I really had to get realistic because
this was a huge problem of mine. I remember even
like when I met my partner now though, like I
remember my best friend being like, so, do you think
you'll go out with him?
Speaker 4 (21:19):
Again?
Speaker 2 (21:19):
And I'm like, you know, if I do that, would
be awesome, And if I don't, that's also okay, because
I have no idea what's going on in his life
after going out with him one time, and I think
it really took conscious unlearning of those patterns.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
I guess the other thing that really factors into this
and listening to you too, you both talk about it,
is this idea that like you should have this passionate
or consuming spot your everybody's love stories, and there's this
huge idea of like you should know within the first
like five minutes, like real love won't hide and if
you have to like take time and be patient with it,
(21:56):
like obviously it's not the one for you. It is.
Also it comes down to like if you wanted to,
if she wanted to, they would yeah, which I am like, yeah, okay,
Like I get I do get it. I think it's
like a nice philosophy, but sometimes, like you said, there's
other things happening in their life. Maybe they do really
want to but they can't. But also it gives us
(22:19):
expectation of like grand gestures and huge commitment very very quickly.
Sometimes like the best love comes from slowing down and
comes from taking your time. How do we do that
that's like the million dollar question, how do you like
slow down, actually enjoy dating, actually enjoy the process and
(22:40):
getting to know someone in this like love on demand environment,
in this like very urgent society that we live in.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Oh, such a beautiful observation. I will tell you I
spent my twenties being addicted to love and my thirties
chasing that high. And now being in my four I
realized that was all a ruths like that was not
that That's not what relationships are about. So I think
it's it's good to know that, you know, Oh, I
(23:12):
really chase the butterflies, or I'm chasing that grand passionate feeling,
because as long as you are observing that, you know
that's happening to you. But the second step to that
is to say, am I feeling this passion for this
person because they haven't called me back in two days
and I've now written this novel about them and I'm
(23:35):
now addicted to the story of this person Or are
they actually showing signs of being a good partner That's
why I'm feeling love and passion for them. And in
my twenties, I will tell you I was chasing after
people who were the first How I described in the
first way is they were not available, but I was
so connected to the story of who they were that
(24:00):
I began chasing, not them, with these fantasy characters. So
now I can look back on that and say, Okay,
I'm glad I went through that experience, but this is
I think this is the biggest shift for me in
how I turn that around. My friend Amy told me
this because I asked her, like, why do you want
to get married, why do you want to have kids,
(24:21):
why do you want any of this stuff in life?
And she said, it's not the achievements or the milestones,
it's I want to learn how I can expand my
heart to the fullest. And I thought that was such
a beautiful way of putting relationships and dating is it's
not about the end result or getting someone or chasing
(24:42):
this milestone. It's what can you do to love the
fullest at each opportunity, and even if that person doesn't
stay forever, you are using that opportunity to expand your heart.
And I really hope that everybody can take that expansion
in mind when they're dating, because it's it makes us
(25:04):
so much more of a beautiful enjoyable and like self
focus experience.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Absolutely, it's also this sense of like what are you
rushing towards? You know, what's the rush? And I know
people are always like, well, I just want to do
all these things with them, and I'm like, if you're
going to be with them forever, they will happen, and
you don't want to squeeze a whole relationship into like
four years and then be like, wait, we actually never
(25:31):
really like got to know each other. I always say,
it's like you've got to enjoy enjoy the waiting rooms, right.
There are periods in your life when you're in a
waiting room and it's kind of like ooh, like you know,
I'm not I'm not like coming to the destination. I'm
not at my destination. I'm just kind of in the middle.
And I do think that relationships have those rooms as well,
(25:52):
where it's like, Okay, this is the time when we
can like sit and slow down and have a chat
and like pick up a magazine and like just really
you fill out some forms, really get to know each other.
Like I really value that in my own relationship is
you know, early days, like it's only been two years
as it is it really does mean that there is
(26:13):
a trust built there and I and I know that
the bedrock of my relationship is not excitement. There is
excitement in there, but the bedrock is like true liking
and knowledge, and like you said, like my heart has
room to expand. It's like when you blow up a
balloon slily rather than just like giving one big push
(26:33):
and like it explodes everywhere.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
So I like that advice a lot. I think this
is easier sound than dumb. But we need to like
remember the long game here, like I don't. We've had
these conversations with people that you know, got married super
early and are now divorced, and they were saying how
they felt like they lacked the communication skills, the relational skills,
(26:56):
they just didn't do it because you know, they're just
every just fell into place and it worked out. And
of course it was like, I'm not saying that every
couple that gets married early this is going to happen
to And I think if you are in the situation
where you're like I've been dating for a while, it's
hard remember that it's all going to something like you're
learning at every step of the way here. And I
(27:19):
really think that like, dating is the perfect opportunity to
test out and train yourself and practice saying what you need.
And we're always so afraid to in dating because we're like,
we don't know this person well enough. I don't want
to scare them away. But if we turn it like
why not scare away the wrong people? Like that's filtering
people out for you. And then also like I mean,
(27:43):
I know, for me, a huge pivotal point was when
I was like, Okay, I'm going to date with my
own needs at the forefront. So that involved getting clear
about what those deeds even were what I wanted, because
in the past, I was like the hitchhiker along for
everyone else's ride. That's why I was in all the situationships.
But then when you are able to turn it on yourself,
(28:05):
then you're in control and you're making those decisions, and
you can also look at it like this person isn't
the right one for me, not just I need to
be saved and get done with this.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Oh my goodness, words I had wished I heard a
long time ago, three or four years ago. Those would
have been incredibly helpful, but I had to learn it
the hardway. We're going to take a short break, but
when we return, I'm going to talk more about how
to date seriously and how to know if someone is
the right one. I've got a more serious question. I
(28:41):
feel like the first half of this episode we talked
about getting to know someone, doing some of the work
in yourself around what kind of data you are, how
you canel about going slow. Say you are with someone,
it's getting serious, you are having fun, you're vibing, neither
of you are seeing other people. It's exclusive. If you
have doubts, what if you still have questions lingering in
(29:04):
the back of your mind, like three four, five months in,
is that something that you should call it quits over
or is it worth kind of giving them the grace
and gift of time to see if it works.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Yeah, And this goes back to our expectation of love
on demand too. People feel like they need to know
right away and also have no doubts in early dating,
and it's so you're gonna hopeway's gonna have doubts. That's
the reality of relationships too. Relationships evolve and you're gonna
have moments where you're like, am I with the right person?
(29:39):
So in our book, we actually make it very clear.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
We have a.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Perfect partner equation, so you can just follow that formula
and really it's a plug and chug, but also it
grounds you into what matters in choosing a partner, and
like we really bully down to like there are only
seven things that matter, and like one of them is consistency,
like as this person consistently showing up for you. But
(30:06):
here's the thing though, like with we can do all
the overthinking thinking because their thinker is one of the
dating archetypes as well. This person's going to be like
every moment, is this the right person? This is the
right person? At some point you just got to say
this is the right person until they're not the right person.
We see this with so many relationships that span years
and years. They're right until they're not, and that's okay.
(30:30):
Like they do not need to be the right person forever.
There they are right for you based on your core needs,
your values, et cetera. And that's all you really need
to hold on to. You don't have to think of
like one hundred years down the line.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
I think it's understanding why you're having the hesitation too,
Like Ua was saying, is it something that's core to
your values or the way you feel or your futures
aren't a lunch. I just gave away some of the
perfect partner equation. And or is it that like stuff
from your past is coming up that's causing you to
feel that anxiety, Because I think there's a big different
(31:08):
difference if you're with the wrong person because you're fundamentally
not aligned versus the normal anxieties that happen in relationships.
And like I know, for me, I thought like once
I met that person, it'd be all easy because the
anxiety and the difficult part was in the dating. Because
I met someone and I'm like, oh, this is like
(31:30):
the type of person I was looking for. You know,
everything on the outside is healthy, But what I've learned
is like even in the healthiest relationships, we get triggered.
Stuff comes up from our past, and there's a big
differentiator if this person is wrong for you or it's
coming from the back.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
I love the way that you put that, because I
do think that there were so many amazing people out
there for us. We will never choose just one if
we constantly think that the grass is greener. And of course,
there is an important distinction between like you said, you know,
you have this beautiful relationship equation. There is an important
(32:10):
distinction between, you know, not feeling certain because of big
questions and not feeling certain because you're like, ooh, could
I have something more exciting? You know, could I have
the butterflies again? I honestly see this a lot with
people in their twenties, where they're like, oh my god,
my relationship just feels so stable, almost so used to
(32:31):
chasing the high of early love that you know. I
had a friend who was in this gorgeous, beautiful relationship.
She left it for for similar reasons, and they are
now back together because she was like, I just realized
that actually this person was amazing. They were everything that
I wanted. I was just looking for something that actually
(32:53):
a past version of me wanted more, which was something
exhilarating and intoxicating and addictive. Is that the relationship that's
gonna take me till my thirties, to my forties to
my fifties. Is that the relationship I want to raise
children within? Probably not, probably not, But there are sometimes
those situations. And you guys have this amazing episode which
(33:15):
I'm just gonna plug here because it's so good about
whether you should leave a good relation, whether you should
leave a good not great relationship. And if that is
the case, this relationship is like it's fine, it's okay,
it's no amazing, and you do decide to leave, how
do you get over the fear of never finding someone better?
(33:38):
If this is in your stars, if this is in
your path, this relationship isn't right, how do you stop
yourself from staying for longer than you should?
Speaker 3 (33:48):
Yeah. So I was forty two years old when I
found out my partner of five years had been cheating
on me. We were making plans to start a family.
I was we were in the middle of trying to
conceive when I found all the text messages that nobody
should ever read from their partner. So here's the thing.
(34:09):
After this breakup, and it was hard, it was devastating.
I realized, if I can get through this on my own,
then I am perfectly great. Like this is If this
is the default of my life is to be strong
and independent and be like this warrior on my own,
(34:34):
then anybody who comes in my life is just additive.
So having that kind of reset going back into dating,
it was so refreshing because I didn't feel like I
needed to hold on to people. I knew that whoever
was meant for me will be in my life, and
whoever was not meant for me will naturally filter themselves out.
(34:56):
I did not need to force people to be in
my life. I did not need to force people to
be in relationship with me, and that allowed me to
attract the right people because these were people like, oh,
her life is great. I want to add to it.
I want to be a better part of this life,
like rate come along. But I don't need a relationship.
(35:17):
I don't need a partner. When we see when we
have the scarcity mindset, we feel like we need someone
to save us, like a relationship is going to bring
us to this island where everybody's safe and fed and roofed,
And that's like, that's not how it works, right, Like
it just relationships won't save you if you can't save yourself.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
I think, though it's natural what you were saying, like,
especially like we tie in like a present bias, right
we look at what's in front of us currently as
like having more weight than what could be in the future,
and it's really hard to see that something better could
be around the quarter, Like looking at uas situation. I
feel like you're in a much better or a relationship
(36:01):
now at place now, but in the thick of that breakup,
you could not see that. You could not know that.
So it's a really hard situation that makes us often
overstay things that aren't working. I think the hardest one too,
is like when it's a good relationship, like nothing's wrong,
but you're just like, is there something more fulfilling for me?
(36:23):
And of course we recommend you know, having all the conversations,
doing the work, going to couple's therapy, not just throwing
in the towel at one feeling of that. But if
you keep feeling that and you're like, fundamentally I know
this person isn't right for me, you also have to
honor that too, and honor that and trust that something
will be out there that is better serve for you,
(36:46):
because if you're fundamentally feeling that way, then like you
do deserve something more, and so does the person you're with.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
I was gonna say, yeah, so does the person you're
a Wait, I imagine if you were with a pot
and who was looking you right, I just don't like,
I'm not going to leave them because you know they're
good not great? Right? That would that would break my
heart if my boyfriend or my partner was like, yeah
she's she's okay, but I'm too scared to leave her. Yeah,
and that's going to be the rest of my life.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Like absolutely not saw it to that person took and to.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Yourself, like, yes, you owe it to yourself as well,
because that's still your reality. And I love what you
said of like, Okay, you might not find a better relationship,
but you'll find yourself. And isn't that just as valuable
because there are people who go through their entire lives
who do not find that. And I say that with
the most serious level of gravity having seen it and
(37:45):
in family members of mine actually who I'm like, you know,
you married like the first person you met and now
you're like seventy eighty, and like, I can just see that,
only now you're figuring yourself out, as you know, as
a someone who's older. And it's beautiful that they're getting
that opportunity, but it is something that you need to
take seriously. You can't like there's never going to be
(38:08):
a good time to end a relationship ever, and there's
never gonna be like the final, you know, especially if
you're with someone who's like really great and like kind
and happy, like if you're waiting for them to like
screw up as an excuse to like break up with them,
I honestly think that's a little bit manipulative as well,
because you're going to push them into those situations where
they're gonna have to take, like take the reins like
(38:32):
I love the I think the overarching theme of everything
you guys say is like being the driver's seat of
your love life, and that also means having Like, if
you're gonna be in the driver's seat, you've also got
to make some hard calls that might include, you know,
leaving someone who is good not great.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
But we are saying actually inspired. Something that we talk
Julie and I talk about all the time is sometimes
we evaluate our relationships on the wrong things, like, oh,
this person's so nice and faithful and kind, like I
should stay with them because they are a good person. Well,
(39:11):
you like, just being with someone because they're a good
person doesn't actually do anything for anybody. You want to
be with a partner who is committed to growing with you,
who's committed to expanding the relationship with you. The minute
your partner shuts down or you shut down from that growth,
that relationship is over because you can no longer evolve
(39:34):
that relationship no matter how kind or nice or great
this person is. So instead of like us being like, oh,
I can't leave a person who's so nice and great,
I would have just challenged people to say, have you
set up your partner for success in terms of how
we've had discussions about growing together and where can we
expand more into where can we be better at in
(39:57):
our relationship and see if partners receptive to that. Just
like hanging your hat on someone being a good person
or nice, it's just not enough, simply not enough for
a relationship.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
So this is an interesting tidbit. But like when we
did that episode, there was a specific couple that had
come to us that was in mind, and they actually
stayed together and years later they are super happy and
the doubts are gone, which is fascinating because your instinct
is to be like leave, go find someone else. But
(40:33):
I think that actually goes back to like some of
the challenges with modern dating, that's always the instinct, and
that's why we're kind of in or headed towards what
we're calling the love crisis where dating is so hard
that people don't want to do it anymore, or the
mental health aspect is getting so out of control that
you wonder like is it even worth it? And if
(40:54):
we're always onto the decks, we can never develop the relationship.
So I like that example because it's like what you
were saying, you a of like when you look at
what's missing, how are you looking at it? And can
you have that like come to conversation of like how
do we move that barrier? And then if you've done
(41:15):
all the work and you're still not there, at least
you know you did it instead of just moving on.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
I love that, and I like, I really like this
realistic approach of like look at the right things and
the order I've gotten that saying of like relationships or work.
I used to be so scared of that saying. We
used to be like no, no, no, no, it should
be easy. Yes, but like you go to the gym
(41:42):
when you want to, like you look after your body,
that's hard work, but you still enjoy it and everything
is worked exactly. Anything that's good is work and is
a choice. I actually think that like the easiest things
in life aren't always worth having. You know, it's easy
to like be passive in your life. It's easy to
sit on the couch and it's easy to like eat
(42:04):
the food that's like on your way home, and it's
easy to do X y Z. Is that going to
put you in the best place? Probably not. Same goes
for a relationship at times, especially like I don't know,
especially when there is just so much about them that
you do really like and that is important. I know
we're giving like conflicting advice here, guys, but I think
(42:26):
the basis of what we're saying is if you have
an instinct that maybe this relationship isn't right for you,
investigate it further. Is it for a reason that is
something that you can work on, or is it something
fundamental about your character and your plans and your visions.
The first step is definitely to really test that out
with your partner and really do the work and the interrogation.
(42:48):
If they are someone who is genuinely a great person
for you, and then it's kind of up to you. Like,
maybe the reason our advice is like this way and
that way is because there is no one answer. But
I love the analogy that that couple, it's hot warming.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
I think the question too, is like what's hard, because like,
if you're like constantly trying to get attention from a
situationship that is telling you outright that they don't want
to commit to you, that's not the right relationship for you.
But if it's hard because it's actually making you confront
parts of yourself and you know, feelings that are coming
(43:23):
up or emotions that you've stuffed away, that's like the
right type of heart that's challenging you to be a
better person. So again, I think it is conflicting, but
we have to come back to like what the root
is of like what is actually the hard mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
I love that. Now we have to wrap up because
I've just gone completely.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
I've got a complete It's.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Like I was going to ask you every single dating
question I've ever had. I think to finish the episode,
and I ask a lot of my guests this, what
would each of you pick one thing the best piece
of advice that you would give you a twenty something
your old self around dating. What do you wish that
you had known back then that the listeners can know now?
Speaker 2 (44:12):
I think for me, it's trust in your timing, especially
in your twenties, there's so much pressure to you know,
meet these artificial milestones, and it's so much better to
take your time and be with the right person. Again,
it goes back to the long game, and you know,
getting into this mindset to of I'm the one in control,
(44:35):
I'm figuring this out. It's not the apps, it's not
my city, it's not all other people, like I'm the
one leading is so empowering too. So if you can
combine those two mindsets of like, you know, things will
work out for me, Especially if I make this a
priority with I'm in the driver's seat, then I think
that really sets you up for a lot more success.
Speaker 3 (44:59):
I think been asking the question you just asked, it's
a really good way to think about dating. The question is,
if you're, let's say, in your thirties or forties, what
did you learn in your twenties about dating? Ask yourself
that question in your twenties, you know, ask yourself, like,
in this situation I'm in right now, ten years down
(45:20):
the line, what would I tell that person that I
learned from it. I think in the twenties, you don't
need to be like I have to figure it all out,
and I have to get it all right because you'll
never get it all right or figure it all out.
But it's such a great place with so much freedom
to play and to experiment and discover. Just know that
(45:42):
you are intentional about the discovery process. You're not repeating
the same patterns of behavior that every moment is teaching
you something so that when you do reach thirty, you
go yep. In my twenties, I learned all of this,
Like I have a whole list of things I learned.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
And also, like your dating life and life doesn't end
at thirty, there is such a pressure to hy make
sure that you've like picked up a partner along the way.
Oh my god, absolutely not good. No, you have so
much time. You have so much time. So I want
to thank you both for coming on to the show.
I also really want to plug your book How to
(46:20):
Be Datable by the time it comes out on January
twenty eighth, correct.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Yeah, yeah, And it's incredible.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
It's a really good book and it's practical and it's helpful,
and it's modern and there's just so many nuggets of
wisdom in it. So I'll leave a link to pre
order the book in the description of this episode. Where
can the listeners find your podcast? Where can they find you? Both?
Speaker 2 (46:45):
So many pleasers, We're all over the internet, but really,
wherever podcasts are? Apple Podcasts, Spotify and yeah, datablepodcast dot
com or how toobe datable dot com.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
Brilliant Again, thank you so much for coming on and
for your beautiful advice for us twenty somethings. I hope
that you, guys the listeners enjoyed this episode. Everything else
that you need will be in the link your own
the description of this episode. Make sure that you leave
a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you
are listening. Give us a follow so you know when
(47:21):
new episodes are coming up, especially with twelve months of
guests happening. At the moment, we have some more amazing
guests on their way. And until next time, stay safe,
be kind, to be gentle to yourself. We will talk soon.
Host
Jemma Sbeghen
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!