Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to
the podcast, new listeners, old listeners. Wherever you are in
the world, it is so great to have you here,
back for another episode as we, of course break down
the psychology of our twenties. Before we get into this episode,
little disclaimer if you couldn't already tell from my voice,
(00:22):
I am indeed a little bit sick with some mystery
bug mystery illness, but of course the show must go on.
I'm in Wyoming at the moment, in the US, visiting
some friends, and as an Ossie gal, the cold weather
does not agree with me one bit, and I seriously
(00:42):
feel like I landed spent like two hours in Wyoming
and my body was like, we don't like this. Let's
bring up any dormous, dormant viruses that you may have
and bring them all to the surface. So if you
can please bear with me while I manage this cold virus,
whatever it is, I would really really appreciate it, because
(01:04):
I'm just really glad to share this episode with you.
It's one that I have wanted to do for a
long time. I feel like I say that a lot,
but it's because I always have these ideas on the
back burner today, I'm really happy to have you here
for a very in depth Dare I say, fun and
fascinating episode on the difference between introverts and extroverts? Or
(01:25):
should I maybe say what you think the differences are
but which we may have been misled to believe by
the oversimplification of human personality. Extraversion and introversion seem to
be this weird thing that divides society. Who are the
social butterflies, who are the hermits? But it is so
(01:48):
much more complex and nuanced than that. You know, I
consider myself an extrovert, but I don't really party. I
cancel plans probably way more than I should. I feel
tired a lot, So maybe I'm an introvert. You know.
There's all these like different ways of seeing it, and
I really want to explore what it actually means. And
(02:11):
you know, I also have friends who are most certainly introverts,
who really need a lot of alone time, but you know,
for the two hours that they're at the party like
they are the life of the party. Basically, what I'm
trying to say is that it's complicated, and what I
really want to do is break down the origin of
this concept, like historically in the psychology community, what the
(02:34):
research really tells us about each personality type and why
that simple version that we probably all know is is incorrect.
We're going to start at the very beginning and then
explore how levels of extraversion and introversion have maybe even
changed in recent years. More specifically, how it differs within
(02:54):
individuals based on factors like gender and culture. I also
want to discuss the myth to do with so called ambiverts.
Why do you feel that you might not be either
an introvert or extrovert? And is the term ambivert appropriate?
But ultimately what is it that makes us more like
(03:17):
one than the other scientifically? And I also want to
finish out the conversation by talking about how we can
accept the introverted or extroverted part of ourselves, especially in
a world, you know, in a career, in a friendship,
maybe even an environment where certain parts of being an
introvert or being an extrovert don't feel accepted. So there
(03:43):
is a lot to cover. If you are like me
and really fascinated by, you know, just personality in general,
this is definitely the episode to open your eyes and
give you some cool facts that you may not have known.
I hope you're ready. I am definitely ready. Without further
I'm going to give you a short break from my
(04:03):
sick voice and get into the episode, get into the
psychological differences and perhaps similarities between introverts and extroverts. Let's
get into it. I want to get straight into it
and talk about the major differences between introverts and extroverts,
(04:25):
some of which we're probably already familiar with, some others
of which you may not have heard of. But before that,
we do need to know where this idea came from.
I feel like these terms introvert extrovert have become parts
of our shared language now, like they're parts of the psychobabble.
We throw them into conversations left, right and center. But
(04:48):
I do think it's really important to also know how
they came to be. It's an important piece, you know,
even if trivia, if nothing else. So, the person you
really want to know about in order to explain these
concepts is kyl Jung. He is a legendary Swiss psychoanalyst
and psychiatrist. He is He's famous. He can be credited
(05:09):
with more concepts than I think I could even count
and extraversion, and introvert is just one of them. He
basically saw these as central traits to each of our personalities.
And you know, something that we could use to categorize
people in society and categorize their personalities. You were either
(05:32):
high in introversion or high in extroversion. Something that a
lot of us actually get wrong, though, is that you
have to be one or the other explicitly at all times.
Not true. According to Yung, we actually all have an
extroverted and introverted side. One is just more dominant more
(05:57):
of the time. And to be honest, you know, I
have never actually met somebody who is entirely one hundred
percent introverted or entirely extroverted. You know, maybe the only example,
Like I was thinking about this and I was like, no,
there must be someone. The only example I can think
(06:18):
of is like that philosopher who lived on an island
by himself for twenty years. I've completely forgotten his name.
If you know who it is, leave a comment, because
it's it's going to annoy me. But you know, perhaps
the only people who we could accredit as being one
hundred percent one over the other people who are so
called hermits people who are socially reclusive. But again that
(06:42):
is very very rare. And you know, it's not the
case that you can only receive energy from ourselves or
you can only receive energy from others. Humans require different
different things, different sources of fuel, different sources of motivation
and energy. This here is actually the most important distinction
(07:06):
between an extrovert and an introvert. It rests on how
we each prefer to gain energy or recharge. Do we
seek inspiration and stimulation from within ourselves or out in
the world. It's a spectrum that we all sit on,
and where we sit can actually change day to day,
(07:26):
but we do tend to lean more one way than
the other. Now, people who sit right in the middle,
they're known as ambiverts. They have a perfect balance, some
would say, of extroverted and introverted traits or desires. It's
actually important to note that this idea of an ambivert
(07:48):
is actually a modern addition to the original theory. So
jung He himself did not introduce that term. He didn't
believe that ambiverts existed, so of course he wouldn't have
given it a name. He really did say, you are
you have both, but one is dominant. Therefore, no one
is an ambivert, because that would suggest a complete balance,
(08:13):
a perfect unison or blend of them both. Anyways, basically,
what makes you an introvert versus an extrovert depends on
where you primarily seek gratification or stimulation. So a primarily
extroverted person seeks it from human interaction. Hence this idea
(08:33):
that they're quite talkative, they're social butterflies, they have many friends,
they make plans, they're enthusiastic. They really thrive from the
energy of others or in a group. In contrast, people
we would consider introverts derive gratification and peace from solo activities,
(08:53):
from that alone time that they crave so much. They're
a bit more reserved, quiet, passive. Maybe if you're an introvert,
you may also find that if you have been around
people for too long, for too many days in a row,
you do get a bit irritated. You can't focus, You
want to just kind of fade into the background, and
(09:15):
you can't wait to get back to your room, get
back to your space, get back to a place where
you can just be in your own company. In comparison,
like an extrovert may never want the party to stop.
Like they're the ones who are like, okay, like we
finished the main event, come hang out at my place,
like let's go watch a movie, Let's go out for
another drink. They're people who really need multiple social touch
(09:41):
points throughout the day. So they need to see someone
in the morning, they need to have a call of
someone in the evening, and you know, they like to
have a full social calendar, and they will find that
they feel less satisfied, less purposeful, less creative, less fulfilled
when they go to many days without seeing people or
(10:02):
really like having nourishing conversations or interactions. Some introverts, though,
do have like I don't know what the term is,
but like introverted pals, let's call them that, people who
they can be around constantly and not feel the need
to have a break from in order to restore their energy.
Normally it's another introvert, right, It's someone who you can
(10:25):
do what we call parallel time with, where you're like
both sitting in the same room, but you're doing different things,
but you enjoy like the physical presence. That's a little caveat,
a little small addition to the introverted nature. Some psychologists
have suggested that introverts are people whose energy it tends
to expand through reflection and dwindled during interaction. But active
(10:52):
interaction so they can be around other people if it
is not something that is going to cost them all
their mental recas sources. They can be silent, they can
be thinking, they can be introspecting. Now, introversion is not
the same thing as being anti social or shy, or
(11:12):
even having social anxiety. It's a common misconception, but extroverts
can be just as shy and just as socially anxious
as your everyday introvert. I am somebody again who is
incredibly extroverted. In fact, you know, I was reminded of
that fact very recently. Like I spent a few days
in a row without seeing anyone, and I did feel low.
(11:34):
I felt a significant dip in my mood. But I
also have my fair share of moments of feeling awkward,
of feeling like I shouldn't go to this thing, I
don't know anyone. I am not confident all the time.
Because extraversion and social ability or perceived social acceptance are
(11:57):
not the same thing. This is a whole other facet
of personality. If we look at it another way, an
introvert can be the most confident, self assured person, you know,
counter to what people may think. They just need more
space in their day for themselves. But you could put
them in front of a big crowd, in a big
(12:17):
group and they would still feel at ease. It's just
that it's not their preferred way to seek validation, gratification
and energy. Again, it's two different dimensions. So continuing on
with this history lesson. After cal Jung first introduced this
idea and a piece of writing almost one hundred years ago,
(12:40):
it was then adopted by many others in the field.
Many other psychologists and psychiatrists were like, huh, he might
be right, and they wrote papers finding things that were
very very similar to what he was noting that we
could identify people in this way, and so extraversion slash
introvert became what we now know as one of the
(13:03):
defining personality traits that we use today famously. It is
now part of what we call the Big Five. Now
we've spoken about the Big five many times before, and
if you're a psychology student, I'm sure you have heard
of this before many many times. So apologies for being boring,
(13:23):
but let's just consider this a refresher if you're new
to the idea. The Big five is basically the attempt
of psychologists to categorize us as humans by categorizing our personalities.
It's basically the closest thing that we have to a
formula for describing someone based on five core traits and
(13:44):
where they sit on this spectrum of these traits. So
consider like five scales, and you can sit, you know,
in different positions on each of those scales, and where
you sit on those different positions will end up giving
you your personality type. If you've ever done, you know,
the Mayas Briggs test, like you will be very very
(14:07):
familiar with this. Let's talk about the traits though. The
first one is openness to experiences. So you can either
be someone who is very curious, very creative, is really
accepting if new things, is really hungering for new sensations,
maybe takes risks, is happy with the discomfort of experiencing
(14:31):
something new. Or you can be someone who is quite
happy in the normalcy and happy in the comfort of
their routine. Next, we have conscientiousness. This is organization, how
efficient you are your general sense of responsibility. You can
be someone who we would call quite type A who
was very efficient, very organized, very productive. Or you can
(14:54):
be someone who kind of you know, operates more by
like the seat of their pants is a little bit
more on the go. Then we have extraversion, which we've
already talked about. One side of the scale was extraversion,
the other one is introversion. Are you social, are are
you assertive? Or are you more reserved? You gain energy
from reflection. Then we have agreeableness. This is compassion, respectfulness,
(15:19):
trust in others, basically your ability to get along. We
all know there are people who like they just start fires,
they just create conflict. And then there's another set of
people who are very I don't know what the word is,
but they're just very easy to be around. They don't
really want to disagree. It's not that they don't have opinions,
(15:40):
but they'd know the time and place, like they're just
an everybody person. Then finally we have neuroticism. So this
is probably the biggest area where we would talk about
mental health. It's a very slim part of it, but
do you lean towards being quite anxious and depressed or yeah,
quite neurotic is the term they used to use for it,
(16:02):
or use someone who is not really afflicted by those things.
So individual personalities are thought to feature each of these,
like all of us sit somewhere on this scale. You
can't be like zero in any of these, Like you
sit somewhere. So you can rate high in extraversion but
low in openness to new experiences, so you like the
(16:24):
people you like, but you find it hard to open
up to new friends. You may also be low in extraversion,
so you're an introvert, but high in agreeableness and lower neuroticism,
so you come off as really friendly and open, but
that doesn't necessarily mean that you want to be around
people all the time. Basically, what I want you to
conclude from the Big five is that personality is bigger
(16:45):
than introversion versus extraversion, and it's also most certainly bigger
than the Big Five. The Big five is a great
structure to explain how someone might react in a certain situation,
why they are the way they are, But it doesn't
include fo things like interests, specific hobbies, passions, our self concept,
our self concept, how we think about ourselves. That's actually
(17:08):
a big flaw that people find with the Big Five.
It's that it doesn't really explain this. It doesn't explain,
you know, our perspective on ourselves. It just explains how
we may appear to others. But personality, you know, it
is also a requirement to describe personality that we reflect
on our own emotional patterns, our certain abilities, our behaviors,
(17:33):
our likes, our dislikes, like, the list goes on. And
that's why I really warn people against thinking about themselves
as either entirely introverted or entirely extroverted, and more than that,
wrongly assuming that it defines who you are in its entirety,
because I promise it doesn't. It's just one component. So
(17:54):
moving on from that, I want to answer a specific
question now that we have largely ignored for the first
part of this episode, what actually makes someone introverted versus extroverted? Like?
Is it something that we just pop out of the
womb being like? Is it like a weird Harry Potter
(18:14):
sorting hat? What makes us who we are? So there
are a few explanations, of course, it's never straightforward in psychology.
The first is that it's largely but not entirely inherited,
So there's a huge genetic component and we can see
that in twin studies. In one series of twin studies
(18:35):
conducted in twenty twenty, researchers looked at more than six
hundred different genes and found that blueprint genetic blueprint contributed
somewhere between thirty to sixty percent to whether you were
extroverted or introverted. So basically, if you had an extroverted
parent or you had an extroverted twin, there was around
(18:58):
a thirty to sixty percent chance that you would also
be extroverted, not introverted. So that is like heritability. What's
the likelihood that if we took a million people, how
many of them in the same circumstances would end up
as extroverts, how many of them would go the other
way and as introverts. Honestly, you know, if it's at
(19:20):
the low end of like thirty percent, that's actually pretty
minimal in my eyes, But you know, it's bigger than nothing,
and it still does point to the fact that who
your parents are really does influence who you will be.
So the reason that genetics has an influence is because
of how genetics can influence how certain systems in our
(19:44):
brain work. So we all know that when we get
a genetic blueprint. That genetic blueprint influences a lot of things.
One of the things that influences is cerebral or brain development,
and that's what makes the next two theories important. A
big thing. The theory is that whether you are an
extrovert or an introvert comes down to arousal. And we're
(20:06):
not talking about sexual arousal, but the extent to which
our bodies and our minds are alert and ready to stimulation.
So this explanation was first proposed way back in the
nineteen sixties, and basically it suggested that the brains of
extroverts are chronically under aroused, leading them to seek out
(20:30):
stimulation from the environment. Extroverts need to basically work harder
to get themselves up to the level that others find
normal and pleasant. Hence why they really like novel social experiences,
They like being around people. They may even be more
(20:51):
boisterous and risk taking. In contrast, introverts already have a
naturally lower threshold. It takes less for them to feel
kind of over stimulated. You know, a really good book,
a movie night that provides just as much stimulation and
(21:11):
fun to them as a club. Because they don't need
as much to bring about enjoyment, and too much stimulation
actually makes them quite overwhelmed, whereas for extroverts sometimes the
limit doesn't exist. So really, what this all comes down
to this is a suggestion is our brains and their
(21:31):
inner workings, specifically the activity of neurotransmitters like dopamine, serotonin, adrenaline,
or noropdephrin. Now, this theory of arousal was presented almost
sixty years ago, and since then we have obviously become
a lot more advanced in our scientific technologies, so we've
(21:54):
been able to test what was once a bit of
a wild guess. Turns out it was a pretty good guess.
In two thousand and five, researchers from the University of
Amsterdam set out to test this theory specifically by looking
at whether extraversion versus introversion is really determined by how
active our dopamine systems are. Now a lot of us
(22:14):
think if dopamine as the happy chemical. That's true, but
it's also responsible for motivation, learning, concentration, social ability, so
it's going to play a role in this personality trait.
They got a huge sample of people and they grouped
them based on a simple personality test, and then they
got them to participate in a game of sorts where
(22:37):
they had to place bets and they had to be
it was in like a social environment, and they were
either rewarded for their gamble or not. Here's what they saw.
The reward centers of the brain displayed a lot more
activity when the individual was an extrovert. They also paid
attention to the game for longer, They seemed more key
(23:00):
to keep engaging in the game, maybe because of that
social element, but all of this this equal experience. They
were receiving a more positive, more rewarding reaction from it.
The introverts, on the other hand, or who who the
scientists imagined were introverts based on this personality test, they
(23:21):
displayed a whole lot less activity in those same areas,
suggesting that extroverts are the way they are because they
just have a heightened sensitivity to reward highly reactive dopamine systems,
and they already receive a baseline of reward just from
being around people that introverts don't get. So it makes
(23:43):
sense that these people would be happier in big social
situations or taking social risks or even personal risks because
of what happens deep in their brains. That's one side
of the coin, but it also comes down to environments,
specifically culture, socialization, how we were raised, and that's one
(24:04):
further piece of the puzzle that we were going to
explore after this short break. Looking at the origin behind
introversion and extraversion specifically, Like the biological underpinnings is one thing,
but humans I don't think can be reduced to chemical
(24:26):
messages in their brain. I think doing so this is
a really important part of the picture, and that part
we miss comes down to social influence and environment. It
seems that where you were born and where you grow
up will also determine whether you are more extroverted versus introverted.
(24:48):
If you grew up within a culture that values outward
social engagement and being outgoing and loud and very forward,
extraversion rates will seemingly be higher because more more people
learn that this is what's kind of expected of them.
They're also kind of raised to adapt to these environments.
They mimic the behaviors of those around them, so they
(25:11):
may appear to be more extroverted when we compare that
to quite reflective, peaceful societies where children are taught and
raised to be quiet, to be reserved, to be introspective,
We're definitely going to see a difference in overall rates.
Consider the difference, for example, between individuals from a country
(25:33):
like Japan versus the United States. Obviously, not everyone within
those countries are going to be the same. You know,
no one group is completely homogeneous. But if we took
the median of each I would expect the US to
be higher in extraversion and the Japanese people hire in introversion.
(25:57):
So the research shows that levels of exsion seem to
be divided by whether a country or a culture is
actually individualistic or collectivist. So individualistic cultures like the United States,
they prioritize individual expression and outward displays of confidence that's
(26:19):
linked to extraversion. Collectivist cultures, on the other hand, they
value harmony, They value group cohesion that might lead to
more introverted behaviors. You know, I would love to see, like,
at what point being removed from that culture in place
in the other one would maybe change who you are.
(26:40):
Like if you grew up in the United States until
you were six, and then you moved to a place
like Japan, would that change who you are or like,
would it have to be when you were three? Could
it be you know, as late as fifteen. It would
just be very very cool, Like whether it would be
a really great way to see whether it's something you're
born with or something that you learn, Like if there's
(27:01):
a certain direction you're going that's then like completely turned
around by primarily exposure to a different culture. Long ramble, apologies,
I'm just very interested in that, Like, it would be
cool research project. Gender also influences us a whole lot
because it impacts how people choose to see us and
(27:22):
how we are raised. I feel like I don't have
to do a whole revision or history lesson, but you know,
there's this real sense that loudness in young girls is
definitely policed. It isn't seen as attractive, whereas for young boys,
like it's totally acceptable. They are raised to be boisterous, loud,
a lot more social, So there are actually higher rates
(27:45):
of introversion amongst women compared to men. It also kind
of brings me to a crucial question of this episode,
maybe one that you are asking yourself at this point.
You know, if you were raised in a specific culture,
if you raised as a woman to be quite timid,
to be quite shy, to be quite silent. Can we
(28:07):
change that the older we get. Is there an opportunity
at some point to become more extroverted or is it
forever more a permanent part of our identity. I think
from my research and also experiences, it is really possible
for us to obviously momentarily slip into an introverted or
extroverted state if our environment requires it, sometimes even for
(28:32):
more than a moment. Obviously, we were discussing before Jung's
theory that actually it's just that one is more dominant,
but you do still have introverted and extroverted parts, and
when it's appropriate that part of you might switch on.
I've heard stories from friends, but also in case studies
of people who after trauma, especially a social kind of trauma,
(28:55):
they were extroverts and they become introverted. They no longer
get the same energy. Also see people who are quite
introverted who enter a new environment, perhaps a new workplace
or a new relationship, and become quite extroverted. But if
you do believe the psychology and the personality theories, what
they say is that you should always return back to
(29:18):
the state that is natural for you, even when the
trauma has hopefully been addressed, even when you're in that
workplace that demands this from you. At some point, your
true nature is going to come out and you're going
to return to what we call like emotional or I
guess even social homeostasis. I think beyond that, though, people
(29:41):
do change as they get older and as their situation
changes as well. So yes, it might be a momentary
lapse into introversion or extraversion, but over time, if a
situation demands it, or if you just change as you grow,
you will see that you're stewing perhaps more towards the
other direct You know, consider someone who was really isolated
(30:04):
in a retirement home. Maybe they become more introverted out
of necessity. You know, it's quite a sad example. But
in the state, like, it's harder for them to change
their nature entirely, so maybe this part of them just
becomes more present. It means that they are forced to
(30:26):
be okay with being alone because of their situation, and
so maybe some small part of them adapts to that.
What we're really wanting to discuss here is can we
change our personality like That's the real key question of
the hour, and I actually have an interview coming out
with someone in two weeks and it's this amazing author
(30:46):
from the Atlantic, and she tried to change her personality
over the span of a year and she was really,
really diligent. She enacted all of these lifestyle changes and
habits and she did find like some great success. So
I'm not going to spoil that episode, but yeah, I
do think that persistent intervention or major lifestyle events can
(31:08):
permanently shift you, even though like there is a theory
that you'll always come back. I think depending on the
magnitude of the event or how intense and diligent you
are with your exercises to become more introverted or more extroverted,
I do think it can work. But what I would
ask is why would you want to You know, if
(31:32):
I'm talking about this and you're really paying attention, why
is it that you feel like it's so necessary for
you to change who you may fundamentally be. If this
is who you are and where your energy levels, your
socialization levels, your stimulation levels naturally sit, what would push
(31:52):
you to try and strongly change that part of you?
I think I have an answer, right, I think it
really does come down to the fact that it often
feels like society is made for a very specific type
or level of extrovert, not someone who was introverted, and
definitely not someone who is too extroverted. And I actually
(32:15):
received a message from a listener about this which really
inspired me to do this topic, where she was talking
about how difficult it is to feel like you'll be
successful when you are naturally quieter, or naturally less assertive,
or naturally less interested in networking in a world where
all our depictions of CEOs are quite brash, bold, loud
(32:37):
leaders with big personalities, or you know, every job in
the spotlight seems to involve a great level of socializing.
You know that doesn't look appealing if you are an introvert.
I will say introverts aren't often in the spotlight because
you know, typically they're going to keep away from it
because it's very exhausting. That doesn't mean that don't exist
(33:01):
and that there isn't representation, recognition, great appreciation for the
introverts in our society, even if they're not the front runners,
even if they're not the people that are put on
the main stage, they are still there are still Sorry,
so many examples of people who are incredibly successful. Barack
(33:21):
Obama famously has talked about how he is an introvert.
Albert Einstein was an introvert. Bill Gates introvert. Steven Spielberg
also an introvert. Eleanor Roosevelt was apparently quite introverted as well.
Warren Buffett. Marissa Mayer, she was the founder of Yahoo. Like,
there are so many examples, don't let you know, modern
(33:43):
media and our very individualistic depictions of success make it
seem like you are either too quiet or too too
loud to find what you really want. I want to
talk about how we can actually manage our natural state,
or our natural level of energy and desire for socialization
(34:06):
in a world that really favors extraversion, and even better,
how to balance friendships and relationships when personalities differ, how
to network, how to be socially active and do what's
socially necessary without being, you know, drowned out by that
constant like noise in your brain and that constant like
(34:27):
perhaps tiredness. I think if you're an introvert and you're
struggling with this, the first thing I want you to
do is really devote your energy to those and what
matters most. Try and figure out how many hours is
your maximum amount for socializing before you become perhaps you know,
not someone who's that fun to be around, you know,
(34:48):
someone who you don't really like. When you start to
hit a wall, take notice how many hours have you
been in this situation? How many days in a row
have you felt like you've made to do things? Really
trust your intuition and trust your body when it is
asking for refueling time and almost figure out, Okay, is
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it five hours a day that I can socialize? Is
it two? I'm going to use those hours as best
as possible and not try and go over them. I
think this obviously takes some trial and error, but I've
had people tell me how keeping a journal for three
weeks where they track hours around others, hours socializing versus
(35:32):
their mood was very very helpful for them to identify
their specific cutoff. Basically, you want to follow the very
simple principle of make time for what matters and don't
feel like you're selfish. Don't feel guilty for saying you know,
I don't have space for this on my plate right now,
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especially when it's things that you know perhaps are a
little bit unnecessary or perhaps is leaning or into a
people pleasing territory. But you're only doing it to make
somebody else happy, if you're only at the social event,
if you're only in the meeting that was voluntary because
you think it's going to make someone else happy. Making
yourself miserable is not going to make that person happy.
(36:16):
Like making yourself miserable as well is going to bite
you in the tush. So have strong boundaries around that.
Know your limits. I also think in terms of keeping
up conversations or giving the appearance of meeting energy levels,
especially when you know you pit your wall but like
there's no way out. Here. Are some tips I use
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as like primarily as an extrovert, that I think you're
a small lift in those situations, so that you can
still be present, you don't feel like you're being rude,
but also maintain some sense of peace, like when you
don't want to be in that situation, or when you
do but you are like getting quite tired. Firstly, I
would say, ask people about themselves. People love that. A
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recent study I was reading said that most people spend
the majority of their days thinking about themselves. So if
they can bring that to a conversation and talk about
themselves even better. Like literally, my secret is just to
be like why to everything they say, but with a
few more words. Like if you ask someone what their
job is at a party and they say, oh, I'm
(37:22):
an accountant. Sometimes that can really stump people because you're like,
you know, what do I talk about with that? But
you can ask the why question, Okay, why they account
Why are they an accountant? And then be like, oh,
what made you want to do that? And then say
they say what it is and you know it's because
my parents did that and blah blah blah blah blah.
Oh and why did your parents inspire you so much?
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Why did maths seem like so much fun? Literally, embody
a four year old who just has endless curiosity and
ask why, but just with a few more words and
ask open questions, Smile, nod, make eye contact. You don't
have to do even half of the talking if you
engage in active listening. So it might save you a
(38:08):
lot of energy resources. And I promise you, like someone
will leave that interaction with you and be like, Wow,
they were so interesting because they just found themselves interesting.
That's the whole secret. I will also say, kind of
on a different note, but quality over quantity is something
that I think we extroverts could learn to do better
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when it comes to saying yes yes to friendships, to
plans and whatever it is. And my introverted friends are
definitely experts at this. So if you've found your balance,
keep doing it. Don't think that just because someone else's
life looks different to yours, that it's any better than yours.
That is a fallacy that we very much love to
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lean into as humans. We think everyone is happier than
us just because they do it differently, or just because
they present as being happier, not realizing that I think
happiness deeply individualistic and personal. If you know that you're
an introvert, don't try and fit into an extrovert skin.
If you know you're an extrovert, don't try and shut
yourself down to be more like an introvert because you
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think it's going to be more appealing to people. Both
individuals are going to end up unhappy. The thing is,
when we talk about extroverts and introverts, at whatever point
on the spectrum you sit in the moment or across
your life, each of us contributes a perfect amount to humanity,
and each of us, in whatever form we come, I
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think is balanced by someone else out there who was
hopefully being their most authentic self. And who is you
don't filling the bit that we don't feel. So if
you're an extrovert, you have your introverted balancing act, Like
there's someone else in the world who provides what the
world needs in an opposition to you. Basically, like we
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need everyone. You play a role, even if you think
that you're too much or you're too little, I truly
believe in like the harmony and the balance of this
world and maybe even the universe at large. And this
is one aspect of it, a tiny, tiny micro aspect
of it, but it's an important one. You know. I
hate ending on something as cliche as like be yourself,
(40:21):
but this is so so true. Like I hope you
take away from this episode how much value we each bring,
How we need extroverts, we need introverts, whatever you are.
We need everyone to make the world go around. So
if you are questioning can I change myself? Can I
be happier? Can I be more like that person? Please
(40:42):
really contemplate whether being more like that person a person
who you were not born to be is going to
make you any happier, or whether really leaning in to
the strengths of your introversion or the strengths of your extroversion,
what it makes you amazing at, what it makes you
so talented, at what it brings to society, whether that
(41:04):
is actually going to make you happier, Like a real
sense of a stubbornness to yourself, a sense of surrender,
a sense of complete acceptance. I think that's all we
have for this episode. Thank you so much for bearing
with my sick, gross voice for this many minutes. I
appreciate it. If you've made it this far, in the
comments below, I want you to leave your mayers, Briggs,
(41:29):
or your big five personality kind of traits, whether you
are an extrovert or an introvert. I really want to
hear whether people in my audience lean more one towards
the other. Maybe I'll even pop a pole down there,
because I would be very, very fascinated by that information.
I hope you learn more about yourself from this episode.
(41:50):
If you feel like there's someone else in your life
who could get something out of this, feel free to
share it with them. Start a conversation, share it to
your Instagram story and see what people think. It's also
really a great way for me to reach new people
and to hopefully build this community which we always love.
Make sure that you are following along. You leave a
(42:11):
five star review only if you feel called to do so,
and you can also follow me on Instagram at that
Psychology Podcast If you have questions, queries, qualms, conundrums, further comments,
or even episode suggestions, My dms are always open and
as always, until next time, stay safe, be kind, be
(42:31):
gentle to yourself, and we will talk very very soon.