April 29, 2025 • 48 mins
I wrote a book and it's out today! Person in Progress: The Roadmap to The Psychology of your 20s contains everything you need to know about your 20s: how to find your purpose, how to manage relationship breakdowns, fight your self doubt, break bad habits, manage your money, heal your childhood wounds, embrace your authenticity, all from a scientific place!
In this episode we break down exactly HOW I wrote my book and all the advice I would give to a new writer, including:
- How to find your big idea
- How to find a publisher
- How to write a pitch
- My 5 best tips for writing even when it's hard
- How to manage imposter syndrome and worrying 'will anyone read this'
- How to deal with writer's block + so much more
Listen now!
ORDER MY BOOK HERE: https://www.psychologyofyour20s.com/general-clean
Follow Jemma on Instagram: @jemmasbeg
Follow the podcast on Instagram: @thatpsychologypodcast
For business: psychologyofyour20s@gmail.com
The Psychology of your 20s is not a substitute for professional mental health help. If you are struggling, distressed or require personalised advice, please reach out to your doctor or a licensed psychologist.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to
the podcast, new listeners, old listeners. Wherever you are in
the world, it is so great to have you here.
Back for another episode as we, of course break down
the psychology of our twenties. Today's episode is going to
be a little bit different. We are not talking about,
(00:23):
you know, something that every twenty something is going to do,
which I typically like to center my episodes on. We're
not even talking about psychology all that much, but of
course it is still going to be an element of that.
What we are talking about is my new book, mainly
the process by which I was able to write it.
My book took me around four to six months to write,
(00:47):
to write the first draft, first draft I was really
really happy with, and then from there there were so
many extra hidden steps that I think that no one
really talks about when they say they want to write
a book, or when they're talking about authorship. I think
we have this idea in our heads of like, Okay,
I'll write a book, I'll put everything into it it. Okay,
(01:08):
it will take me a couple months and then it
will come out and as soon as I'm done writing it,
you know, the next shipment of books that are coming
in that's going to have my name on it. It's
such a secretive process, almost and I know that so
many people have on their bucket list on one of
the huge life goals is to write a novel, is
(01:30):
to write a book, and having done it, having slugged
through it, suffered through it, but also really enjoyed the process.
At times, I thought that this would be something interesting
to talk about and to also be able to answer
the questions that so many of you have been asking
me in the lead up to Person in Progress's release.
(01:50):
This is such a great opportunity when this is fresh
in my mind, to really talk about the secret ins
and outs of book writing. So I know this episode
might not necessarily appeal to everyone who is a longtime
listener of the Psychology of your twenties, but for those
of you who it does. Honestly, I find this stuff
(02:11):
so fascinating. I listened to so many podcasts when I
was writing my book about how to do this, so
I thought I'd add my own tips to the story
and to the wealth of information out there. If you've
ever wanted to write a book, if it's something on
your bucket list. If you are currently writing a book,
if you just want to understand the artistic process a
little bit more, maybe learn something, this episode is for you.
(02:34):
I am so excited. We're going to cut the intro
nice and short so we can get into the nice,
juicy stuff without further ado. Let's talk about how I
wrote my book, Person and Progress. Okay, so for the
last six months I have been writing all of my
thoughts and feelings about book writing in my notes APP.
(02:57):
I kind of always knew I wanted to document this,
which is great for me now because all of my
thoughts it's all here, It's already to be shared. Let
me start with explaining why I knew I wanted to
write a book, because I think that that why is
really really important and often neglected. I want to remind
you it's not that you want to write a book.
You should want to write the book, a specific book
(03:21):
that you know needs to be written, that you feel
called to in your heart to put out there that
you feel like it just needs to be spoken, It
needs to be written down. There is no other option
going forward that does not involve you creating this thing.
Here are some of the questions I would ask myself,
or that you can ask yourself to understand what kind
(03:44):
of book is it that you actually want to write.
The biggest thing to notice is, if you want to
write a book, what is the thing that you already
could talk about all day? What is the thing that
you think about the most? What is the topic idea
conversation that you bring up with your friends all the time.
What is the thing you feel like you can't not
(04:08):
write about. What we're really getting to hear is trying
to find the direction in which you should be placing
your efforts and trying almost to uncover the idea that
I think we all have. All of us have a
brilliant story that only we can tell. All of us
have some kind of knowledge or lived experience with the
topic that hasn't been told before. The thing is, it's
(04:30):
about identifying that now. Another element of this is that
there are some books that you might think you can
write that you just shouldn't. And it feels strange because
maybe you are sitting on a million idea and you're thinking,
oh my gosh, I should really write this book, or
someone should, but you have no motivation to begin, You
have no idea. What would happen with it, You have
(04:50):
no storyline, nothing like that. That is either the start
of a really great idea or it's a sign that
that idea actually doesn't belong to you. So I heard
this brilliant analogy by Elizabeth Gilbert, who we've interviewed on
the podcast before, and she explains how ideas we don't
necessarily own them. Before we create something, all we have
(05:13):
is an idea. But until we put that idea into
and make it into something tangible, and we put it
into fruition, anyone is welcome to come and take it.
Anyone is welcome to have DIBs to it. Essentially, what
she explains is that there are all these ideas that
are kind of existing around us and within the walls.
(05:34):
There are all these stories that the universe once told,
and they are going to find the person. The universe,
the spirits, whatever it is, the Roman gods, the Greek gods,
God in general, this force is going to find the
person who is going to be able to execute that
idea most succinctly and quickly. So, if you have an
(05:54):
idea for a book, but you really are actually just
not that committed to it, it's kater let that idea
go and leave space for a better one, or a
more fresh, personal, interesting idea to you, because perhaps that
idea doesn't really belong to you. The reason I've put
so much time into explaining this is because that happened
(06:14):
to me. The initial book that I wanted to write,
I now realize was not my book I initially wanted
to write. I had two ideas. I initially wanted to
essentially keep a journal for two years and then publish
though like certain journal entries as like an anthology or
(06:35):
a collection of like the twenty something Diaries, which if
you follow me on Instagram you'll know is something that
I do over there. But I wanted to basically give
people almost the ability to buy my diary with like
hand written entries in it, on like a mass scale.
A couple problems with that. I still think it's a
(06:56):
good idea, and if someone else wants to do it,
like it's it's not my idea anymore, like not going
to make that idea so someone else is welcome to
do it. I think the issue with that is that
it is quite vulnerable, and what it made me realize
is that I would end up writing in my journal
in my diary as if there was already an audience there,
as if someone was already perceiving everything that I'd written,
(07:19):
because I was already committed to the practice. I already
journal basically every single day. But at the point that
I decided that those journals were going to be published,
obviously that was going to completely disrupt the artistic and
also the emotional and personal process of that practice. So
that was the first idea, and I realized, like, that's
not going to work. The second idea was that I
(07:40):
wanted to write this book called The Overachiever's Guide to
Doing Less, and I wanted to talk about how, through
mistakes and errors and faults and flaws and this whole process,
I have kind of learned to put less pressure on myself.
And I know that there are so many individuals out
there who are very Type A and who were raised
(08:01):
as gifted overachievers, who to this day struggle with this
idea that their output is their entire worth. And I
really wanted to write a self help book, I guess,
debunking that idea and providing like tangible, practical ways to
re center your life on things that you actually enjoy
(08:22):
and that bring you joy rather than on what seems
impressive for other people, how hard you can work, how
much you can push yourself. So those were two ideas
that I had before I decided to write Person in Progress.
And I am fully okay with the fact that, yes,
those may have been great ideas, but that was not
the book that I was being called to write. The
(08:44):
book that I was being called to write was this
book was Person and Progress. This is how I figured
that out. I figured it out because it was what
I was already obsessed with. And I was actually already
writing about the podcast The Psychology of Your Twenties, like
those episodes could have made a novel. And something that
not many people know is that actually most of these
(09:06):
episodes are scripted, and that requires me to write, you know,
somewhere anywhere between four thousand to seven thousand words for
every single script, and I was doing that, like happily.
I was so involved in that process of writing my
scripts two a week, sometimes ten twelve, thirteen thousand words
(09:30):
that I kind of took a step back and was like, oh,
I'm already writing this book. I'm writing this book just
in a different form. So what's the challenge going to
be what's the big difference, Like, this is the book
that I'm being called to write. The other thing was
that I could not stop taking notes of everything around
me that I was almost already committed to putting in
(09:54):
the book. Let me explain that. So I remember, specifically,
there's a story in the book of one of my friends,
and she previously had like the most terrible workplace and
she had a terrible boss and it was just an
awful experience. And I remember hearing that story and talking
(10:16):
it through with her and getting really really involved, and
then a part of me was like, wow, like that
would be a great part of this book, Like someone
could even write a whole book around this. And I
wrote down her story obviously, without mission. And there were
so many other instances like that, like friends, breakups, things
I was learning in my own life, things I was
(10:36):
noticing in the news. It felt like the structure was
being built by those very ideas, and I just had
to kind of fill in the blanks and be committed
to making it coherent. So this is my first big
piece of advice. If you want to write a book,
the idea should almost feel natural to you. It should
(10:57):
feel like already in your mind already in what you
are noticing in the notes that you are jotting down,
you're already committed to writing this book, like you're already
doing research. You're already on the lookout for things that
will contribute to this story that you know needs to
be told that has not been told yet. The next
thing I want to talk about, which no one talks about,
(11:19):
is how to write a pitch. So there's kind of
two ways that you go about writing a book. Either
you write the whole book, you write the whole manuscript,
and then you start looking for a publisher, or you
have the idea and before you write it, you pitch
it to publishing houses and see if they'll give you
an advance and see if they'll find you a slot.
(11:42):
So a slot is basically the time in the year
when your book is going to be released. So something
that no one told me before I started writing a
book is that publishers obviously cannot flood the market with
every single book that is proposed to them pitch to them,
but also with every single book that they are even
(12:04):
working on. You know, they have to kind of stagnate
what's it called, like stagger. They have to kind of
stagger their release, and so they are looking out for
books that are going to fill certain slots in their roster.
Most publishing houses they know what books they're going to
be publishing two years in advance. They know what book's
(12:27):
going to be coming out in April twenty twenty seven.
That book is already being written right now, and so
even if you haven't written the book yet, they are
constantly looking for amazing ideas and stories that could fill
those slots. So if you want to go that route,
what you need to do is write a pitch. This
is exactly what a pitch is going to involve. It's
(12:49):
going to involve a small section about you, about your experience,
about your background, about anything that you think is relevant
to why you are writing this story. Perhaps if you
are writing a scientific or a health based book, or
a self improvement book or a psychology book, you know
you want to say, I have a bit of credibility,
so I have a degree, I have worked in this space, YadA, YadA, YadA.
(13:13):
Maybe if you're writing a fiction book, you want to say, all,
this is where I've had pieces published before, that kind
of stuff, A little bit of it about me section.
Then you want a section that is about the book.
Who is the audience going to be, what is the
plotline going to be, who are the characters, what's the
story going to be based around? What are the major
(13:36):
themes going to be? Why do you think people will
read this book? Maybe noticing certain trends, like if you're
writing a romance book, saying well, look, this is the
romance industry is absolutely thriving, like this is where I
see my book fitting in here basically selling your book
and saying you're going to make money off of this
hopefully here's why. Here is exactly why, and exactly who's
(14:01):
going to buy it? Then typically you're going to want
to give kind of a section outline, a story outline.
For me, obviously, I wrote a non fiction book, so
I wrote a chapter outline that will change, but it's
basically just like I've thought about this enough to have
something that I can give you to show that I'm
prepared to put effort into this and I'm prepared to
(14:22):
watch this evolve. So I did like a I basically
just gave them my table of contents what I expected
my table of contents to be, and then I wrote
two sample chapters two sample chapters that I basically was like,
I believe these will end up in the final manuscript.
And they did end up in the final manuscript, obviously
(14:43):
deeply changed and edited, but the overall theme of them
was the same. And that's an important component of this,
because again, they want to know your tone. They also
want to know that you're a good writer. They want
to know that, yeah, you're going to be capable of
creating something that they actually think is worthy of reading,
(15:05):
worthy in their minds. Personally, I think anything that you've
written is worthy of reading and rereading and changing even
if no one else is buying it. Like, it's still
a beautiful process just to write something and create something
even if no one ends up buying it. But what
they're looking for is sometimes a specific way of writing
(15:26):
or a specific yeah, a specific tone, a specific process
that they have kind of seen work for them in
the past. I don't really know if I can give
you any further detail about that, because I think I
just went into it being like, this is what I
would want to read, this is how this is my
(15:46):
writing style. So I'm just going to write these chapters
the way that I would do it if no one
was watching and luckily for me, they really really liked them. If,
of course, perhaps you're writing a fiction book, you might like.
For me, it was very easy to do true chapters
because they were I think fifteen pages each, so thirty
pages in total of my book, and like all the
(16:10):
chapters are distinct, right, So like if I was to
show you the table of contents, if you have the book,
like you'll know that each chapter is its own packaged
kind of If you're writing a fiction book, it might
be a little bit different. You might have to flesh
out the storyline a little bit more, perhaps provide the
first few chapters, like the first you know, the first
(16:33):
critical part of the book before they say yes, we
want you to write this. That is how to write
a pitch. You are then welcome to find people's emails.
Maybe you find an agent. I had an agent, which
I was very lucky to have through like previous relationships
that I had. Basically I said to the person who
(16:54):
manages my podcast, like, I really want to write a book,
and she was like, I'll get you in touch with
a friend. His name was he works for UTA, and
he basically handled a lot of this for me. So
I can't say that I'm an expert in this part,
but essentially what I believed he did was send that
pitch to a bunch of people in the industry he knew,
(17:14):
and then there is kind of basically it's called taking
it to market, and then people bid on your book.
If you're lucky enough to have multiple people interested. Sometimes
you might just have one person interested and they go, yep,
we love this book, We'll buy the rights. This is
how much we'll offer you. Maybe they'll only offer you royalties,
whatever it is the deal that you're getting, or you
(17:38):
might have multiple people, which is just like so amazing
if you do, and so incredible. Literally, someone just reading
your manuscript is already a huge success. One person by
wanting to buy your book is an even bigger success.
Two people wanting to buy your book is just insane.
So that is something that some people encounter where they've
taken it to market. There's kind of a bidding war,
(17:59):
and the people the publishing houses will say, well, this
is what we can offer you if you publish with us.
There was also the opportunity to self publish, to say, okay,
I'm going to put a grand two grand, which is
a lot of money, but however much you're willing to
put into it, to make copies of this book myself
(18:20):
and to get them printed at a local printer, and
then to go into bookstores and say, hey, I'm a
local author, will you stop my book? And you know what,
there have been some incredible success stories from people doing this.
I don't know if anyone knows this. I guess it's
a novel. This book. It's called The Diary of an
Oxygen Thief. That book, I remember it being huge and
(18:44):
it's like a very gripping story. The anonymous author of
that book actually, you know, managed to get a full
time retailer and a full time publisher from initially pitching
it to local bookstores who were like, yeah, we'll buy
a couple of copies and we'll sell them, and then
they couldn't keep them because people were like, Wow, this
is such a good book, and we're recommending it to
(19:05):
their friends. So there are so many routes through which
you can do this that aside, let's now talk about
how to actually write a book, how to actually get
to that seventy eighty thousand, ninety thousand word limit and
enjoy the process. Because I know this is going to
(19:28):
sound dramatic. Writing a book is like birthing a child.
Quite literally, you spend more time with that book than
someone spends with a child in their womb. Like it
takes so many months. It is a labor of love.
But there are also some tips and tricks and practices
that make it a lot easier and that make it
(19:49):
something that you actually feel quite fulfilled by. So we're
going to take a short break, but when we return,
let me give you my five best tips for the
very act of writing your dream. Now. Okay, so I
have five pretty large tips, five pretty broad tips for
(20:10):
you on how to write a book. So most books
that you read are unless it's like a short story
like a Clare keyan kind of book is probably going
to be above sixty five thousand words. I think that
was my minimum word count for my book. It ended
up being I think around eighty five thousand. But by
(20:32):
that stage, like I was on a roll, like there
was no stopping me. I genuinely think at one point
my publisher was like, please please stop writing so much
like some of this is garbage. Maybe they would deny that,
but yes, there is a certain word limit that you
want to get to. In order to get to that
word limit, the first thing that you need to do
is think before you write, but not too deeply. Basically,
(20:54):
what I mean by that is have some vague idea
of where your story, your novel, where your book is
going to go. Don't just expect that you can sit
down and say, I've had this great idea. Check, I
know I need to write this book. Check I feel
like it's writing itself. Check. At some point that book
(21:14):
is going to stop writing itself and you are going
to have to push hard. Like I explained it to
a friend recently, is anyone who's ever written a book
has gotten to this like large chasm, this large like
empty space where you're on one side and where you
want to go is the other side, and you have
(21:36):
to find a way to ferry your book or get
your book over that large space in between. However you
do it, it's a metaphor. You jump, you build a bridge,
you find a detour. Like there is going to be
a difficult point. You can kind of avoid the difficulty
of that snag by having some premeditated idea of where
(21:58):
you think your story is going to go. So for me,
I like I explained, had that entire chapter outline. So
the day I started writing my book, which was January
twenty eighth, twenty twenty three. Yeah, January twenty eight, twenty
twenty three, I remember, I'd just gotten back from Japan. Like,
I knew what I had to write, and I knew
(22:20):
how much of the book I needed to write every
single week and month in order to get to my deadline.
So my publisher had set a deadline. I also set
a personal deadline. That is something I would really encourage
you to do if you were committed to writing a book.
(22:40):
You can't just say I'm going to write a book
because and not give that an end date because you
probably won't do it. It's like saying having a vague
idea of like I want to get fit, I want
to get healthy, when how with who? Whereabouts? Like you
need to create structure around what is a huge endeavor
and a huge I would say you need at least
(23:03):
four months to write a book if you have and
a lot of us have full time jobs, like I
obviously was still writing the podcast as my full time
job alongside writing the book, Like four months is a
push anywhere between four to twelve months no more than
twelve months, though, because suddenly that becomes something that you
can delay and something that you can kind of put off.
(23:24):
I think the sweet spot is around six to seven months.
That's kind of where you have enough of the urgency
to write and to be actively involved in the writing process,
but not enough urgency that you feel stressed out by
this process and you feel stressed out by the end day.
(23:44):
Knowing I had a deadline in mind was really really
important for me, and it kind of leads me to
tip number two, which is to create and commit to
a routine. Commit to a routine that is X number
of chapters per day, per week, per month, maybe a
specific time in the day when you will sit down
(24:05):
and write for two hours. For me, I did three
days a week where my only job was to write.
So I would do Sundays, Mondays and Tuesdays were my
writing days, and then Wednesday's Thursday Fridays, and then the
first half of Saturday was like when I would work.
(24:25):
And I found that really really worked for me because
it allowed me to kind of compartmentalize and keep the
true distinct things that I was doing separate because they
also were kind of similar. So I just felt like
it would be very easy for having done that, to
flick from one to the other to one to the
other and feel like I was losing my mind. So
(24:46):
that's how I structured it. I know people do it differently.
There's a very famous writer called Murakami. I'm what's some
of the stuff that he's written. Oh, I cannot remember
men talking about women. I think is maybe one of them.
He just look him up. He's written some fantastic things,
like it's escaping my mind right now. But my dad
(25:10):
was telling me how when this man is committed to
writing a new novel, how he does it is that
he's really into running, right, and he uses running as
a reward. So he says, I have to write fifteen
pages before I'm allowed to run. That kind of positive
reinforcement rewards cycle is something that really works for people saying, Okay, well,
(25:33):
I'm not going to go see my friends, and until
I've done my one thousand words for the day, until
I've done my chapter for the week, I can't go
out on a Saturday unless this is done. I know
that feels quite clinical and disciplined, and maybe that's not
how you see storytelling and story writing. And obviously this
is just my perspective, so you can do it however
(25:53):
you want. But I will say having that kind of
discipline is something that maybe we're missing a little bit.
Think about the time when you were most productive in
your life. It was probably when you were in primary
school or high school or in college, when you had
structures to your day. You had timelines, you had end
dates and deadlines and goals that you had to meet.
(26:17):
You were able to manage so many things because you
provided your brain with a goal based environment and a
goal winning structure in which it can operate easier. The
other thing is that writing a book is still fun.
Right for all the discussions around creating a routine and
being disciplined in commitment and blah blah blah, it's just
(26:39):
that it's a unique kind of fun called type two fun.
So someone explained this to me the other day. There
are three different types of fun, Type one fun, Type
two fun, Type three fun. So type one fun is
stuff that's just always going to be a blast, like
a trampoline park, like a comedy show, like things that
are just innately enjoy global without requiring too much effort
(27:02):
from you. Type two fun is the kind of fun
that writing a book is or running a marathon. It's
not necessarily all that fun when you're doing it, but
it's fun at various points when you can look back
and see how far you've come, or see the outcome
of your hard work, or get to read what you've written.
(27:23):
Type three fun is just not fun at all, right.
Type three fun is the kind of fun that none
of us really want to get into. Hiking everest, like
ending up doing things that are very very dangerous or
going to actually leave you very scared, lonely and capable.
They're not even fun in hindsight, Like there was the
potential for type two fun, but that potential wasn't there.
(27:47):
Lean into the type two fun of this moment. Yes,
writing a book is hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone
would be doing it. There is a reason that not
everyone writes books. That's also a really enjoyable and romantic
part of the process. I think it is quite beautiful
that you are committing your brain and your body and
(28:09):
your mind and your soul to not a sprint, a
marathon of creativity, knowing that you're unsure of the outcome,
but knowing even more so that this is something that
you need to do. I will also say write at
your best times, not at the ideal time. So I
definitely feel that there is this pull and sense that
(28:30):
we need to do our work during business hours, even
if what your work is is completely self driven and
self motivated, Like if you're writing a novel, you need
to be writing between nine to five. That's delusional. Not everyone,
like the whole nine to five system is quite delusional.
The fact that everyone thinks our peak operating times is
(28:52):
during such a limited period of hours is ridiculous. Every
single one of us actually has our own unique circadium
and cortisol and arousal rhythm, and we also have our
peak attention and peak performance times that are going to
occur at unique points in the day that probably differ
from most other people. For me, writing at nine pm,
(29:18):
oh my god, it was like the words for fire.
It was like I could not stop these thoughts from
like pouring out of me. Writing at ten am when
everyone was suggesting I should be at my peak productivity,
it was miserable, Like I genuinely felt like I could
not keep my eyes open. I think I ended up
(29:41):
realizing that the best times for me to write were
between seven to nine am, two to five pm, and
nine to eleven PM. Obviously that's only six hours. There
were times when I did have to push myself during
those days that I was writing, But if I had
the option to do other things during that time, I'm
you best believe I was taking them because I just
(30:03):
knew that I was better well spent on doing some
of these other less intense tasks during this time than
doing them when they were perhaps more expectant, like in
the morning or the evening, when I was going to
be more primed for writing. So pay attention to when
you feel most invigorated by your book. You feel most
(30:24):
in a flow state, you feel like the whole process
is a lot more effortless. I will also say adventure
in between times where you are really committed to writing,
So whether that means taking your writing to a retreat,
going out of town for a little bit, booking is
secluded airbnb by yourself, and just committing to writing for
(30:46):
the weekend, and then in between sessions going for nature walks,
going outdoors, going to wineries, seeing friends. Our brain thrives
on novelty and newness, and especially those of our with
a creative mind. We need more of that than the
average person. That novelty and newness is how your brain
(31:07):
creates new connections. It's also how it creates new ideas,
and how it turns abstract thinking into concrete thinking into
creative thinking. You know, someone who is sitting in a
plain white room is not going to write anywhere near
a greater book as someone who is writing that same
novel in the countryside or somewhere where there is stimulation
(31:32):
and new experiences and new encounters and human interactions that
can inspire them. So make sure you do not lose
your need for novelty and freshness and adventure in the
discipline and routine of writing a book. In fact, I
think the more fun you have in between writing sessions,
the better that book is actually going to end up being.
(31:52):
This next tip is probably my favorite one, and it
is also the tip that I learnt the hardest of
all ways, and it is that sometimes you have to
kill your darlings. Sometimes you write something that you think
is really really good. Well that isn't actually that good,
but it took so much of you to write it
(32:13):
that you think it deserves a place in your final manuscript.
There was a particular chapter in Person and Progress that
did not make it to the final print edition that
I spent two weeks on, two weeks on one chapter,
and it didn't even make it. And here's the thing.
(32:35):
From the very beginning, I knew it was a bad chapter.
I knew the flow wasn't there. I knew the idea
wasn't there. I knew the commitment wasn't there. I knew
there was just nothing for me in this chapter. It
didn't belong in the book, but I was forcing it
and forcing it, and I had to write it. And
then when my editor was like, this is not a
good chapter. I'm gonna cut it, I was like, you can't,
(32:55):
because that took so much from me. Even though I
know it's not good, it took so much for me.
I don't regret writing it. I don't regret putting all
my thoughts down onto the page because maybe it could
have turned out amazing. But at some stage you will
have to kill plotlines, kill characters, change characters, kill storylines,
kill certain arcs because they just aren't working. You're gonna
(33:18):
have to kill your darlings. It is better to have
had a first draft and to have committed to a
bad idea and killed off that idea, then committed to
no idea at all. So if there is an instinct
to write something, even if it's difficult, still write it.
You can always cut it and remove it. And yes,
it might feel like a loss, but it also means
(33:38):
that the better parts of your book speak louder. So
don't be afraid to go back and say, yeah, this
probably wasn't my best work. Something better is going to
take this chapter or this sentences or this storylines place.
Here are my two final tips. This second last one
is something we've already spoken about, but I want to
(33:59):
really really nail this point home. Write this book for
you first, not for anybody else. What I mean by
that is that when you are writing your novel, your book,
there is a great deal of pressure and an instinct,
I think, to constantly be ruminating and trying to dissect
(34:22):
what you think the reader would want to read or
hear or see happen next. There is an obsession with
how this novel, this book is going to be perceived,
and that intense awareness of other people's perception can mean
that you write a book that is not actually in
(34:43):
your own voice and not actually something that you actually
wanted to write because you were so fearful of other
people's disapproval. A bad book that you enjoyed writing and
that sounds like you is better than an okay book
that sounds like anyone else could have written it. And
it's better than an okay book that everyone's like eh about.
(35:04):
Write this book in your style, even if you think
they might not like it, even if you think there
are decisions that you are making that they wouldn't make,
Like this is your book. At the end of the day,
you know you could finish writing this manuscript and only
one person could buy it, and you actually haven't written
the book that you wanted to write. And then in
the future, twenty years down the line, when you dig
(35:25):
up an old copy and you find it and you're
reading it, you're thinking, ugh, like, why did I do that?
Why did I try and sound so smart? Why did
I try and sound so pretentious? Why did I use
words I didn't know? Why did I say things I
didn't actually believe in? Oh, it's because of this arbitrary
ghost to like amalgamation of a reader who I don't
(35:47):
even know or care about, but whose fantasy opinion I
was gearing towards this is your book. The act of
writing it in itself is a healing, beautiful, sacred practice.
Who cares if no one likes it? If you like it,
if you had fun writing it, that is all that matters.
I would also call you to constantly reflect on the why.
(36:08):
Like I said, there will come a point where there
is a chasm, there is a drop off, there is
a space that you have to bridge to get to
the other side of writing this piece of work. The
thing that will actually really help you get there is
why do I actually want to write this? What is
my intrinsic motivation for producing this piece of work. I
(36:29):
can't give you that motivation. I can't give you the
answer to that question. There are a few different whys.
Maybe you're wise that this is a story that you
feel needs to be on a page for you to
have closure. Maybe you're wise that this is the book
that you wish that you had and you wish that
you would read. Maybe your why is that you're just
(36:49):
so endlessly fascinated by the story, or that you've always
wanted to be a writer and this feels part of
your destiny. We're all going to have a different motivation.
Make sure you are clear on what yours is and
make sure you continuously reflect on it. For me, my
why was this is the book that I really needed,
and I wish that people had been more honest about
(37:10):
certain topics that went into the book. I didn't really
find that honesty and anything else I was reading. My
other why was that I was doing it for my
future self. You know, since I was a child, I
really wanted to be a writer, and I really wanted
to be an author. But I also knew that my
older self really would have wanted to know what I
was thinking and feeling at this point in my life.
(37:32):
And although I didn't end up using that diary idea
I was talking about at the beginning, person in Progress
is it's not biographical, but there definitely are biographical elements
to it and stories that I think my future self
would really get a kick out of reading. And I
think that this was an endeavor that I knew was
always going to be worthwhile even if no one bought it,
(37:54):
because I would have the opportunity to say I did that.
I did the hard thing. I wrote a book. At
some stage my life, I had enough good thoughts, or
at least what I thought were good thoughts to put
eighty five thousand words down on a page and print
it off and if nothing else, give it to family
and friends. So that was my long standing motivation. Okay,
(38:14):
we are going to take a short break, but when
we return, I want to answer some of the questions
you guys asked me over on Instagram about how to
write a book. Very very simple question, the one we've
been talking about this entire time. But I wanted to
hear from you guys and your specific questions, so stay tuned. Okay,
(38:38):
so you guys know, this is a new thing that
we're doing where I get you guys to ask your
questions about any episodes or ideas that we are discussing.
And today the questions had to do with the act
and the process of writing. This first question comes from Lauren.
How do you know where to start? Now? I think
(38:59):
for me that was quite I did initially start with
the first chapter. However, as I went along, I started
jumping between sections. So Person and Progress has four sections.
Each of them are very different from the last. One
of them is about work, one of them is about relationships,
one of them is about healing. One of them is
about everyday twenty something experiences. I would just choose the
(39:21):
chapter that I felt I most wanted to write that day,
until I ended up at the chapter at the very
end that I at least wanted to write, which ended
up being the one on heartbreak. But how I would
answer this question is that where you need to start
is where you feel most called to start and most
passionate to write about. What is the chapter, the section,
the component of the book that you feel most exhilarated by.
(39:44):
You know. I heard about this author through my friend
Alex actually, who runs Basic Bitch book Club, and she
was telling me how one of these authors, and she
was telling me that one of the authors of her
favorite book actually started writing the book at the end,
like in the last three chapters. So the last chapters
(40:07):
that we read when we read that book were the
first chapters she wrote because the story she was telling,
the reason she wanted to tell it was because it
had a specific ending that she really wanted to capture,
and then she worked backwards from there. Some people like
to begin at the very beginning. I don't think that's
necessarily always the best way for everyone. Start where you
(40:30):
feel most called to begin, And if you don't know
where to start, start by just fleshing out some key ideas.
Start by maybe even writing a mini chapter from someone
else's perspective on the main character and what they look like.
Someone once gave me this brilliant writing exercise. If you
want to flesh out your main character or a character
(40:51):
in your book more, imagine what someone would see or
know about them from encountering them in a coffee shop.
So write a minich from the perspective of a third
party watching, learning looking at your main character. It might
not end up in the book. It probably won't end
up in the book, but it will give you more
of an idea of where to go from there and
(41:13):
more of an inspiration. This next question, I love. How
to finish a draft. I just keep rewriting the first
three chapters. I totally get this. If you're a bit
of a perfectionist like myself, it can feel like you
cannot move on from a chapter unless it is up
to your incredibly high standards. I don't think that's necessarily
(41:36):
a bad thing. I think it shows care and love
and appreciation for your work. However, I do understand that
it's frustrating, and that if you have a book that's
going to end up being thirty chapters and you've only
written three, you kind of want to get the ball rolling.
My biggest tip for this is to put those three
chapters aside, put them in one document, start chapter four
in a new document, so that there is not the
(41:58):
pressure or the kind of urge to go back and
scroll up a little bit and just start changing words
here and there, or you know, finding synonyms or antonyms
for this word or that word, or changing very very
minor things. Pretend that you are starting the book from
chapter four and start writing it from there. Another great
way to basically force yourself to write is to put
(42:22):
on a fifteen minute timer or a twenty minute timer
and say this does not have to be good, this
doesn't have to even be comprehensible. I'm just going to
write for fifteen minutes and see what comes up and
see what flows through me. I think the roadblock that
you are facing is one of perfectionism, and I also
think it's one of a fear of failure, which often
(42:43):
they go hand in hand. Giving yourself space and room
for whatever you're writing to be imperfect. Maybe not that
great will also provide you with a lot of freedom
to just make mistakes and to make creative errors that
actually end up being creative doorways. Here's our next question.
I've always wanted to write, but I feel like no
(43:04):
one cares about what I have to say. This is
kind of similar to this question from Ella, how do
you push through imposter syndrome? Will anyone read this? Maybe
no one will read it. I do think people will
read it. Firstly, I will say that, but maybe they won't.
My question is why is that a bad thing? Why
is it that every single form of creation has to
(43:27):
receive outside acknowledgment and can't just be for our own
for you know, the sake of it, for our own
internal pleasure and enjoyment of the activity that aside, Because
I know that's quite a nihilistic view of things and
quite a pessimistic view, and maybe not for everyone. If
you are thinking, why should I write a book? No
(43:48):
one cares what I have to say. No one cares
what anyone has to say until they say it. The
question I always like to ask people is why not you?
Genuinely why not you? And you might come up with
a couple of reasons. All of those reasons are your
self doubt trying to sabotage you. And when self doubt
(44:09):
tries to sabotage you, it's actually trying to protect you.
It doesn't want you to get hurt. It doesn't want
you to feel embarrassed, it doesn't want you to feel rejected,
and so it will keep you in the safest place,
which is the place where you were doing nothing. Every
single person I think who has written a book has thought,
and I've definitely thought this, like why am I doing this?
No one cares what I have to say, No one's
(44:32):
going to buy a copy, Everyone's going to hate it.
And then I just remind myself that if that's the case,
I still got so much out of it up up
until this point. And everyone had to write their first draft,
everyone had to put out their first book. Every single person,
every single author that you admire, has had those same thoughts,
and they still were committed to writing it when they
(44:54):
were or nobody, when no one knew who they were,
and their novels, their books, their manuscripts ended up changing lives.
So I hope that helps you feel better about either alternative.
So this final question is was actually a really really
common one. How do you go about getting a publisher
slash agent? What's the process like and what are the
chances of being rejected? All right, I'm not gonna lie.
(45:18):
The chances of being rejected are quite high. However, rejection
is a doorway, rejection is redirection, rejection is a mirror
rejection as a motivator. Rejection is not something to be
afraid of. Here's the other thing. You can get rejected
by the same publishing house like six or seven times,
Like they might say, go away, fix this, bring it back.
(45:40):
We still don't like it. Go away, fix this, bring
it back. Just because something was rejected in its current
form doesn't mean it's going to be rejected again, doesn't
mean it's going to be rejected by someone else. There
have been so many examples of authors who have gone
on to write incredible books who have been rejected many,
many times, and I'm sure those publishing houses were sitting
(46:01):
there being like, oh, we really screwed up, We really
dropped the ball on that one. As long as you
believe in yourself, I know that you are going to
work hard and you are going to find new avenues
to get your work out there. When it comes to
finding a publisher. A couple of tips that I would
(46:23):
give is go to heaps of industry events, cold email,
ask other established authors or people that you know who
have written books to read your manuscript. Try not to
focus on needing a publisher to write. Just write the thing.
I do feel like having a book that's already written
is perhaps a selling point because they can tell if
(46:45):
they like it or not, and they can kind of
get a sense of where they might want to take
that initial draft. And remember, there are so many ways
to be published. I'd also say start submitting chapters to magazines,
to journals, to literary magazines as well. Just try and
get your work out there and know that the right
(47:06):
people will find it. It might just not be your
time now. It doesn't mean that your time isn't going
to come. I think that's all we have time for today.
Thank you so much, all of you for being so
invested as to make it this far into the episode.
If you did make it this far, I want you
to leave the name of the book that has changed
(47:26):
your life. What is the book that you are so
glad someone wrote and then it feels like they wrote
it just for you because Honestly, I need some reading recommendations.
I am so sick of reading my own book. It
feels like all I do is read my own book,
Like I read it at events, and I read it online,
and I read it out loud, and I read it
from the audiobook, and I'm like, I'm sick of you.
(47:48):
I don't want to look at you anymore. Just kidding.
I love her so much, but I'm ready to read
something else inspiring. I'm ready for a palette cleanser. I'm
ready just to you, you know, I'm ready just to
see what was going on in other people's brains, as
delivered through their words. So leave a comment below and
(48:08):
share this episode with someone who you believe might need it,
might enjoy it, might love it, might appreciate these tips.
Make sure you're following me on Instagram at that Psychology
Podcast to ask future questions for future episodes. Finally, I
can't leave without saying this. If you have the means,
please consider buying a copy of Person and Progress. It
(48:30):
would be greatly appreciated. Until next time, stay safe, be kind,
be gentle with yourself, and we will talk very very soon.
Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to
the podcast, new listeners, old listeners. Wherever you are in
the world, it is so great to have you here.
Back for another episode as we, of course break down
the psychology of our twenties. Today's episode is going to
be a little bit different. We are not talking about,
(00:23):
you know, something that every twenty something is going to do,
which I typically like to center my episodes on. We're
not even talking about psychology all that much, but of
course it is still going to be an element of that.
What we are talking about is my new book, mainly
the process by which I was able to write it.
My book took me around four to six months to write,
(00:47):
to write the first draft, first draft I was really
really happy with, and then from there there were so
many extra hidden steps that I think that no one
really talks about when they say they want to write
a book, or when they're talking about authorship. I think
we have this idea in our heads of like, Okay,
I'll write a book, I'll put everything into it it. Okay,
(01:08):
it will take me a couple months and then it
will come out and as soon as I'm done writing it,
you know, the next shipment of books that are coming
in that's going to have my name on it. It's
such a secretive process, almost and I know that so
many people have on their bucket list on one of
the huge life goals is to write a novel, is
(01:30):
to write a book, and having done it, having slugged
through it, suffered through it, but also really enjoyed the process.
At times, I thought that this would be something interesting
to talk about and to also be able to answer
the questions that so many of you have been asking
me in the lead up to Person in Progress's release.
(01:50):
This is such a great opportunity when this is fresh
in my mind, to really talk about the secret ins
and outs of book writing. So I know this episode
might not necessarily appeal to everyone who is a longtime
listener of the Psychology of your twenties, but for those
of you who it does. Honestly, I find this stuff
(02:11):
so fascinating. I listened to so many podcasts when I
was writing my book about how to do this, so
I thought I'd add my own tips to the story
and to the wealth of information out there. If you've
ever wanted to write a book, if it's something on
your bucket list. If you are currently writing a book,
if you just want to understand the artistic process a
little bit more, maybe learn something, this episode is for you.
(02:34):
I am so excited. We're going to cut the intro
nice and short so we can get into the nice,
juicy stuff without further ado. Let's talk about how I
wrote my book, Person and Progress. Okay, so for the
last six months I have been writing all of my
thoughts and feelings about book writing in my notes APP.
(02:57):
I kind of always knew I wanted to document this,
which is great for me now because all of my
thoughts it's all here, It's already to be shared. Let
me start with explaining why I knew I wanted to
write a book, because I think that that why is
really really important and often neglected. I want to remind
you it's not that you want to write a book.
You should want to write the book, a specific book
(03:21):
that you know needs to be written, that you feel
called to in your heart to put out there that
you feel like it just needs to be spoken, It
needs to be written down. There is no other option
going forward that does not involve you creating this thing.
Here are some of the questions I would ask myself,
or that you can ask yourself to understand what kind
(03:44):
of book is it that you actually want to write.
The biggest thing to notice is, if you want to
write a book, what is the thing that you already
could talk about all day? What is the thing that
you think about the most? What is the topic idea
conversation that you bring up with your friends all the time.
What is the thing you feel like you can't not
(04:08):
write about. What we're really getting to hear is trying
to find the direction in which you should be placing
your efforts and trying almost to uncover the idea that
I think we all have. All of us have a
brilliant story that only we can tell. All of us
have some kind of knowledge or lived experience with the
topic that hasn't been told before. The thing is, it's
(04:30):
about identifying that now. Another element of this is that
there are some books that you might think you can
write that you just shouldn't. And it feels strange because
maybe you are sitting on a million idea and you're thinking,
oh my gosh, I should really write this book, or
someone should, but you have no motivation to begin, You
have no idea. What would happen with it, You have
(04:50):
no storyline, nothing like that. That is either the start
of a really great idea or it's a sign that
that idea actually doesn't belong to you. So I heard
this brilliant analogy by Elizabeth Gilbert, who we've interviewed on
the podcast before, and she explains how ideas we don't
necessarily own them. Before we create something, all we have
(05:13):
is an idea. But until we put that idea into
and make it into something tangible, and we put it
into fruition, anyone is welcome to come and take it.
Anyone is welcome to have DIBs to it. Essentially, what
she explains is that there are all these ideas that
are kind of existing around us and within the walls.
(05:34):
There are all these stories that the universe once told,
and they are going to find the person. The universe,
the spirits, whatever it is, the Roman gods, the Greek gods,
God in general, this force is going to find the
person who is going to be able to execute that
idea most succinctly and quickly. So, if you have an
(05:54):
idea for a book, but you really are actually just
not that committed to it, it's kater let that idea
go and leave space for a better one, or a
more fresh, personal, interesting idea to you, because perhaps that
idea doesn't really belong to you. The reason I've put
so much time into explaining this is because that happened
(06:14):
to me. The initial book that I wanted to write,
I now realize was not my book I initially wanted
to write. I had two ideas. I initially wanted to
essentially keep a journal for two years and then publish
though like certain journal entries as like an anthology or
(06:35):
a collection of like the twenty something Diaries, which if
you follow me on Instagram you'll know is something that
I do over there. But I wanted to basically give
people almost the ability to buy my diary with like
hand written entries in it, on like a mass scale.
A couple problems with that. I still think it's a
(06:56):
good idea, and if someone else wants to do it,
like it's it's not my idea anymore, like not going
to make that idea so someone else is welcome to
do it. I think the issue with that is that
it is quite vulnerable, and what it made me realize
is that I would end up writing in my journal
in my diary as if there was already an audience there,
as if someone was already perceiving everything that I'd written,
(07:19):
because I was already committed to the practice. I already
journal basically every single day. But at the point that
I decided that those journals were going to be published,
obviously that was going to completely disrupt the artistic and
also the emotional and personal process of that practice. So
that was the first idea, and I realized, like, that's
not going to work. The second idea was that I
(07:40):
wanted to write this book called The Overachiever's Guide to
Doing Less, and I wanted to talk about how, through
mistakes and errors and faults and flaws and this whole process,
I have kind of learned to put less pressure on myself.
And I know that there are so many individuals out
there who are very Type A and who were raised
(08:01):
as gifted overachievers, who to this day struggle with this
idea that their output is their entire worth. And I
really wanted to write a self help book, I guess,
debunking that idea and providing like tangible, practical ways to
re center your life on things that you actually enjoy
(08:22):
and that bring you joy rather than on what seems
impressive for other people, how hard you can work, how
much you can push yourself. So those were two ideas
that I had before I decided to write Person in Progress.
And I am fully okay with the fact that, yes,
those may have been great ideas, but that was not
the book that I was being called to write. The
(08:44):
book that I was being called to write was this
book was Person and Progress. This is how I figured
that out. I figured it out because it was what
I was already obsessed with. And I was actually already
writing about the podcast The Psychology of Your Twenties, like
those episodes could have made a novel. And something that
not many people know is that actually most of these
(09:06):
episodes are scripted, and that requires me to write, you know,
somewhere anywhere between four thousand to seven thousand words for
every single script, and I was doing that, like happily.
I was so involved in that process of writing my
scripts two a week, sometimes ten twelve, thirteen thousand words
(09:30):
that I kind of took a step back and was like, oh,
I'm already writing this book. I'm writing this book just
in a different form. So what's the challenge going to
be what's the big difference, Like, this is the book
that I'm being called to write. The other thing was
that I could not stop taking notes of everything around
me that I was almost already committed to putting in
(09:54):
the book. Let me explain that. So I remember, specifically,
there's a story in the book of one of my friends,
and she previously had like the most terrible workplace and
she had a terrible boss and it was just an
awful experience. And I remember hearing that story and talking
(10:16):
it through with her and getting really really involved, and
then a part of me was like, wow, like that
would be a great part of this book, Like someone
could even write a whole book around this. And I
wrote down her story obviously, without mission. And there were
so many other instances like that, like friends, breakups, things
I was learning in my own life, things I was
(10:36):
noticing in the news. It felt like the structure was
being built by those very ideas, and I just had
to kind of fill in the blanks and be committed
to making it coherent. So this is my first big
piece of advice. If you want to write a book,
the idea should almost feel natural to you. It should
(10:57):
feel like already in your mind already in what you
are noticing in the notes that you are jotting down,
you're already committed to writing this book, like you're already
doing research. You're already on the lookout for things that
will contribute to this story that you know needs to
be told that has not been told yet. The next
thing I want to talk about, which no one talks about,
(11:19):
is how to write a pitch. So there's kind of
two ways that you go about writing a book. Either
you write the whole book, you write the whole manuscript,
and then you start looking for a publisher, or you
have the idea and before you write it, you pitch
it to publishing houses and see if they'll give you
an advance and see if they'll find you a slot.
(11:42):
So a slot is basically the time in the year
when your book is going to be released. So something
that no one told me before I started writing a
book is that publishers obviously cannot flood the market with
every single book that is proposed to them pitch to them,
but also with every single book that they are even
(12:04):
working on. You know, they have to kind of stagnate
what's it called, like stagger. They have to kind of
stagger their release, and so they are looking out for
books that are going to fill certain slots in their roster.
Most publishing houses they know what books they're going to
be publishing two years in advance. They know what book's
(12:27):
going to be coming out in April twenty twenty seven.
That book is already being written right now, and so
even if you haven't written the book yet, they are
constantly looking for amazing ideas and stories that could fill
those slots. So if you want to go that route,
what you need to do is write a pitch. This
is exactly what a pitch is going to involve. It's
(12:49):
going to involve a small section about you, about your experience,
about your background, about anything that you think is relevant
to why you are writing this story. Perhaps if you
are writing a scientific or a health based book, or
a self improvement book or a psychology book, you know
you want to say, I have a bit of credibility,
so I have a degree, I have worked in this space, YadA, YadA, YadA.
(13:13):
Maybe if you're writing a fiction book, you want to say, all,
this is where I've had pieces published before, that kind
of stuff, A little bit of it about me section.
Then you want a section that is about the book.
Who is the audience going to be, what is the
plotline going to be, who are the characters, what's the
story going to be based around? What are the major
(13:36):
themes going to be? Why do you think people will
read this book? Maybe noticing certain trends, like if you're
writing a romance book, saying well, look, this is the
romance industry is absolutely thriving, like this is where I
see my book fitting in here basically selling your book
and saying you're going to make money off of this
hopefully here's why. Here is exactly why, and exactly who's
(14:01):
going to buy it? Then typically you're going to want
to give kind of a section outline, a story outline.
For me, obviously, I wrote a non fiction book, so
I wrote a chapter outline that will change, but it's
basically just like I've thought about this enough to have
something that I can give you to show that I'm
prepared to put effort into this and I'm prepared to
(14:22):
watch this evolve. So I did like a I basically
just gave them my table of contents what I expected
my table of contents to be, and then I wrote
two sample chapters two sample chapters that I basically was like,
I believe these will end up in the final manuscript.
And they did end up in the final manuscript, obviously
(14:43):
deeply changed and edited, but the overall theme of them
was the same. And that's an important component of this,
because again, they want to know your tone. They also
want to know that you're a good writer. They want
to know that, yeah, you're going to be capable of
creating something that they actually think is worthy of reading,
(15:05):
worthy in their minds. Personally, I think anything that you've
written is worthy of reading and rereading and changing even
if no one else is buying it. Like, it's still
a beautiful process just to write something and create something
even if no one ends up buying it. But what
they're looking for is sometimes a specific way of writing
(15:26):
or a specific yeah, a specific tone, a specific process
that they have kind of seen work for them in
the past. I don't really know if I can give
you any further detail about that, because I think I
just went into it being like, this is what I
would want to read, this is how this is my
(15:46):
writing style. So I'm just going to write these chapters
the way that I would do it if no one
was watching and luckily for me, they really really liked them. If,
of course, perhaps you're writing a fiction book, you might like.
For me, it was very easy to do true chapters
because they were I think fifteen pages each, so thirty
pages in total of my book, and like all the
(16:10):
chapters are distinct, right, So like if I was to
show you the table of contents, if you have the book,
like you'll know that each chapter is its own packaged
kind of If you're writing a fiction book, it might
be a little bit different. You might have to flesh
out the storyline a little bit more, perhaps provide the
first few chapters, like the first you know, the first
(16:33):
critical part of the book before they say yes, we
want you to write this. That is how to write
a pitch. You are then welcome to find people's emails.
Maybe you find an agent. I had an agent, which
I was very lucky to have through like previous relationships
that I had. Basically I said to the person who
(16:54):
manages my podcast, like, I really want to write a book,
and she was like, I'll get you in touch with
a friend. His name was he works for UTA, and
he basically handled a lot of this for me. So
I can't say that I'm an expert in this part,
but essentially what I believed he did was send that
pitch to a bunch of people in the industry he knew,
(17:14):
and then there is kind of basically it's called taking
it to market, and then people bid on your book.
If you're lucky enough to have multiple people interested. Sometimes
you might just have one person interested and they go, yep,
we love this book, We'll buy the rights. This is
how much we'll offer you. Maybe they'll only offer you royalties,
whatever it is the deal that you're getting, or you
(17:38):
might have multiple people, which is just like so amazing
if you do, and so incredible. Literally, someone just reading
your manuscript is already a huge success. One person by
wanting to buy your book is an even bigger success.
Two people wanting to buy your book is just insane.
So that is something that some people encounter where they've
taken it to market. There's kind of a bidding war,
(17:59):
and the people the publishing houses will say, well, this
is what we can offer you if you publish with us.
There was also the opportunity to self publish, to say, okay,
I'm going to put a grand two grand, which is
a lot of money, but however much you're willing to
put into it, to make copies of this book myself
(18:20):
and to get them printed at a local printer, and
then to go into bookstores and say, hey, I'm a
local author, will you stop my book? And you know what,
there have been some incredible success stories from people doing this.
I don't know if anyone knows this. I guess it's
a novel. This book. It's called The Diary of an
Oxygen Thief. That book, I remember it being huge and
(18:44):
it's like a very gripping story. The anonymous author of
that book actually, you know, managed to get a full
time retailer and a full time publisher from initially pitching
it to local bookstores who were like, yeah, we'll buy
a couple of copies and we'll sell them, and then
they couldn't keep them because people were like, Wow, this
is such a good book, and we're recommending it to
(19:05):
their friends. So there are so many routes through which
you can do this that aside, let's now talk about
how to actually write a book, how to actually get
to that seventy eighty thousand, ninety thousand word limit and
enjoy the process. Because I know this is going to
(19:28):
sound dramatic. Writing a book is like birthing a child.
Quite literally, you spend more time with that book than
someone spends with a child in their womb. Like it
takes so many months. It is a labor of love.
But there are also some tips and tricks and practices
that make it a lot easier and that make it
(19:49):
something that you actually feel quite fulfilled by. So we're
going to take a short break, but when we return,
let me give you my five best tips for the
very act of writing your dream. Now. Okay, so I
have five pretty large tips, five pretty broad tips for
(20:10):
you on how to write a book. So most books
that you read are unless it's like a short story
like a Clare keyan kind of book is probably going
to be above sixty five thousand words. I think that
was my minimum word count for my book. It ended
up being I think around eighty five thousand. But by
(20:32):
that stage, like I was on a roll, like there
was no stopping me. I genuinely think at one point
my publisher was like, please please stop writing so much
like some of this is garbage. Maybe they would deny that,
but yes, there is a certain word limit that you
want to get to. In order to get to that
word limit, the first thing that you need to do
is think before you write, but not too deeply. Basically,
(20:54):
what I mean by that is have some vague idea
of where your story, your novel, where your book is
going to go. Don't just expect that you can sit
down and say, I've had this great idea. Check, I
know I need to write this book. Check I feel
like it's writing itself. Check. At some point that book
(21:14):
is going to stop writing itself and you are going
to have to push hard. Like I explained it to
a friend recently, is anyone who's ever written a book
has gotten to this like large chasm, this large like
empty space where you're on one side and where you
want to go is the other side, and you have
(21:36):
to find a way to ferry your book or get
your book over that large space in between. However you
do it, it's a metaphor. You jump, you build a bridge,
you find a detour. Like there is going to be
a difficult point. You can kind of avoid the difficulty
of that snag by having some premeditated idea of where
(21:58):
you think your story is going to go. So for me,
I like I explained, had that entire chapter outline. So
the day I started writing my book, which was January
twenty eighth, twenty twenty three. Yeah, January twenty eight, twenty
twenty three, I remember, I'd just gotten back from Japan. Like,
I knew what I had to write, and I knew
(22:20):
how much of the book I needed to write every
single week and month in order to get to my deadline.
So my publisher had set a deadline. I also set
a personal deadline. That is something I would really encourage
you to do if you were committed to writing a book.
(22:40):
You can't just say I'm going to write a book
because and not give that an end date because you
probably won't do it. It's like saying having a vague
idea of like I want to get fit, I want
to get healthy, when how with who? Whereabouts? Like you
need to create structure around what is a huge endeavor
and a huge I would say you need at least
(23:03):
four months to write a book if you have and
a lot of us have full time jobs, like I
obviously was still writing the podcast as my full time
job alongside writing the book, Like four months is a
push anywhere between four to twelve months no more than
twelve months, though, because suddenly that becomes something that you
can delay and something that you can kind of put off.
(23:24):
I think the sweet spot is around six to seven months.
That's kind of where you have enough of the urgency
to write and to be actively involved in the writing process,
but not enough urgency that you feel stressed out by
this process and you feel stressed out by the end day.
(23:44):
Knowing I had a deadline in mind was really really
important for me, and it kind of leads me to
tip number two, which is to create and commit to
a routine. Commit to a routine that is X number
of chapters per day, per week, per month, maybe a
specific time in the day when you will sit down
(24:05):
and write for two hours. For me, I did three
days a week where my only job was to write.
So I would do Sundays, Mondays and Tuesdays were my
writing days, and then Wednesday's Thursday Fridays, and then the
first half of Saturday was like when I would work.
(24:25):
And I found that really really worked for me because
it allowed me to kind of compartmentalize and keep the
true distinct things that I was doing separate because they
also were kind of similar. So I just felt like
it would be very easy for having done that, to
flick from one to the other to one to the
other and feel like I was losing my mind. So
(24:46):
that's how I structured it. I know people do it differently.
There's a very famous writer called Murakami. I'm what's some
of the stuff that he's written. Oh, I cannot remember
men talking about women. I think is maybe one of them.
He just look him up. He's written some fantastic things,
like it's escaping my mind right now. But my dad
(25:10):
was telling me how when this man is committed to
writing a new novel, how he does it is that
he's really into running, right, and he uses running as
a reward. So he says, I have to write fifteen
pages before I'm allowed to run. That kind of positive
reinforcement rewards cycle is something that really works for people saying, Okay, well,
(25:33):
I'm not going to go see my friends, and until
I've done my one thousand words for the day, until
I've done my chapter for the week, I can't go
out on a Saturday unless this is done. I know
that feels quite clinical and disciplined, and maybe that's not
how you see storytelling and story writing. And obviously this
is just my perspective, so you can do it however
(25:53):
you want. But I will say having that kind of
discipline is something that maybe we're missing a little bit.
Think about the time when you were most productive in
your life. It was probably when you were in primary
school or high school or in college, when you had
structures to your day. You had timelines, you had end
dates and deadlines and goals that you had to meet.
(26:17):
You were able to manage so many things because you
provided your brain with a goal based environment and a
goal winning structure in which it can operate easier. The
other thing is that writing a book is still fun.
Right for all the discussions around creating a routine and
being disciplined in commitment and blah blah blah, it's just
(26:39):
that it's a unique kind of fun called type two fun.
So someone explained this to me the other day. There
are three different types of fun, Type one fun, Type
two fun, Type three fun. So type one fun is
stuff that's just always going to be a blast, like
a trampoline park, like a comedy show, like things that
are just innately enjoy global without requiring too much effort
(27:02):
from you. Type two fun is the kind of fun
that writing a book is or running a marathon. It's
not necessarily all that fun when you're doing it, but
it's fun at various points when you can look back
and see how far you've come, or see the outcome
of your hard work, or get to read what you've written.
(27:23):
Type three fun is just not fun at all, right.
Type three fun is the kind of fun that none
of us really want to get into. Hiking everest, like
ending up doing things that are very very dangerous or
going to actually leave you very scared, lonely and capable.
They're not even fun in hindsight, Like there was the
potential for type two fun, but that potential wasn't there.
(27:47):
Lean into the type two fun of this moment. Yes,
writing a book is hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone
would be doing it. There is a reason that not
everyone writes books. That's also a really enjoyable and romantic
part of the process. I think it is quite beautiful
that you are committing your brain and your body and
(28:09):
your mind and your soul to not a sprint, a
marathon of creativity, knowing that you're unsure of the outcome,
but knowing even more so that this is something that
you need to do. I will also say write at
your best times, not at the ideal time. So I
definitely feel that there is this pull and sense that
(28:30):
we need to do our work during business hours, even
if what your work is is completely self driven and
self motivated, Like if you're writing a novel, you need
to be writing between nine to five. That's delusional. Not everyone,
like the whole nine to five system is quite delusional.
The fact that everyone thinks our peak operating times is
(28:52):
during such a limited period of hours is ridiculous. Every
single one of us actually has our own unique circadium
and cortisol and arousal rhythm, and we also have our
peak attention and peak performance times that are going to
occur at unique points in the day that probably differ
from most other people. For me, writing at nine pm,
(29:18):
oh my god, it was like the words for fire.
It was like I could not stop these thoughts from
like pouring out of me. Writing at ten am when
everyone was suggesting I should be at my peak productivity,
it was miserable, Like I genuinely felt like I could
not keep my eyes open. I think I ended up
(29:41):
realizing that the best times for me to write were
between seven to nine am, two to five pm, and
nine to eleven PM. Obviously that's only six hours. There
were times when I did have to push myself during
those days that I was writing, But if I had
the option to do other things during that time, I'm
you best believe I was taking them because I just
(30:03):
knew that I was better well spent on doing some
of these other less intense tasks during this time than
doing them when they were perhaps more expectant, like in
the morning or the evening, when I was going to
be more primed for writing. So pay attention to when
you feel most invigorated by your book. You feel most
(30:24):
in a flow state, you feel like the whole process
is a lot more effortless. I will also say adventure
in between times where you are really committed to writing,
So whether that means taking your writing to a retreat,
going out of town for a little bit, booking is
secluded airbnb by yourself, and just committing to writing for
(30:46):
the weekend, and then in between sessions going for nature walks,
going outdoors, going to wineries, seeing friends. Our brain thrives
on novelty and newness, and especially those of our with
a creative mind. We need more of that than the
average person. That novelty and newness is how your brain
(31:07):
creates new connections. It's also how it creates new ideas,
and how it turns abstract thinking into concrete thinking into
creative thinking. You know, someone who is sitting in a
plain white room is not going to write anywhere near
a greater book as someone who is writing that same
novel in the countryside or somewhere where there is stimulation
(31:32):
and new experiences and new encounters and human interactions that
can inspire them. So make sure you do not lose
your need for novelty and freshness and adventure in the
discipline and routine of writing a book. In fact, I
think the more fun you have in between writing sessions,
the better that book is actually going to end up being.
(31:52):
This next tip is probably my favorite one, and it
is also the tip that I learnt the hardest of
all ways, and it is that sometimes you have to
kill your darlings. Sometimes you write something that you think
is really really good. Well that isn't actually that good,
but it took so much of you to write it
(32:13):
that you think it deserves a place in your final manuscript.
There was a particular chapter in Person and Progress that
did not make it to the final print edition that
I spent two weeks on, two weeks on one chapter,
and it didn't even make it. And here's the thing.
(32:35):
From the very beginning, I knew it was a bad chapter.
I knew the flow wasn't there. I knew the idea
wasn't there. I knew the commitment wasn't there. I knew
there was just nothing for me in this chapter. It
didn't belong in the book, but I was forcing it
and forcing it, and I had to write it. And
then when my editor was like, this is not a
good chapter. I'm gonna cut it, I was like, you can't,
(32:55):
because that took so much from me. Even though I
know it's not good, it took so much for me.
I don't regret writing it. I don't regret putting all
my thoughts down onto the page because maybe it could
have turned out amazing. But at some stage you will
have to kill plotlines, kill characters, change characters, kill storylines,
kill certain arcs because they just aren't working. You're gonna
(33:18):
have to kill your darlings. It is better to have
had a first draft and to have committed to a
bad idea and killed off that idea, then committed to
no idea at all. So if there is an instinct
to write something, even if it's difficult, still write it.
You can always cut it and remove it. And yes,
it might feel like a loss, but it also means
(33:38):
that the better parts of your book speak louder. So
don't be afraid to go back and say, yeah, this
probably wasn't my best work. Something better is going to
take this chapter or this sentences or this storylines place.
Here are my two final tips. This second last one
is something we've already spoken about, but I want to
(33:59):
really really nail this point home. Write this book for
you first, not for anybody else. What I mean by
that is that when you are writing your novel, your book,
there is a great deal of pressure and an instinct,
I think, to constantly be ruminating and trying to dissect
(34:22):
what you think the reader would want to read or
hear or see happen next. There is an obsession with
how this novel, this book is going to be perceived,
and that intense awareness of other people's perception can mean
that you write a book that is not actually in
(34:43):
your own voice and not actually something that you actually
wanted to write because you were so fearful of other
people's disapproval. A bad book that you enjoyed writing and
that sounds like you is better than an okay book
that sounds like anyone else could have written it. And
it's better than an okay book that everyone's like eh about.
(35:04):
Write this book in your style, even if you think
they might not like it, even if you think there
are decisions that you are making that they wouldn't make,
Like this is your book. At the end of the day,
you know you could finish writing this manuscript and only
one person could buy it, and you actually haven't written
the book that you wanted to write. And then in
the future, twenty years down the line, when you dig
(35:25):
up an old copy and you find it and you're
reading it, you're thinking, ugh, like, why did I do that?
Why did I try and sound so smart? Why did
I try and sound so pretentious? Why did I use
words I didn't know? Why did I say things I
didn't actually believe in? Oh, it's because of this arbitrary
ghost to like amalgamation of a reader who I don't
(35:47):
even know or care about, but whose fantasy opinion I
was gearing towards this is your book. The act of
writing it in itself is a healing, beautiful, sacred practice.
Who cares if no one likes it? If you like it,
if you had fun writing it, that is all that matters.
I would also call you to constantly reflect on the why.
(36:08):
Like I said, there will come a point where there
is a chasm, there is a drop off, there is
a space that you have to bridge to get to
the other side of writing this piece of work. The
thing that will actually really help you get there is
why do I actually want to write this? What is
my intrinsic motivation for producing this piece of work. I
(36:29):
can't give you that motivation. I can't give you the
answer to that question. There are a few different whys.
Maybe you're wise that this is a story that you
feel needs to be on a page for you to
have closure. Maybe you're wise that this is the book
that you wish that you had and you wish that
you would read. Maybe your why is that you're just
(36:49):
so endlessly fascinated by the story, or that you've always
wanted to be a writer and this feels part of
your destiny. We're all going to have a different motivation.
Make sure you are clear on what yours is and
make sure you continuously reflect on it. For me, my
why was this is the book that I really needed,
and I wish that people had been more honest about
(37:10):
certain topics that went into the book. I didn't really
find that honesty and anything else I was reading. My
other why was that I was doing it for my
future self. You know, since I was a child, I
really wanted to be a writer, and I really wanted
to be an author. But I also knew that my
older self really would have wanted to know what I
was thinking and feeling at this point in my life.
(37:32):
And although I didn't end up using that diary idea
I was talking about at the beginning, person in Progress
is it's not biographical, but there definitely are biographical elements
to it and stories that I think my future self
would really get a kick out of reading. And I
think that this was an endeavor that I knew was
always going to be worthwhile even if no one bought it,
(37:54):
because I would have the opportunity to say I did that.
I did the hard thing. I wrote a book. At
some stage my life, I had enough good thoughts, or
at least what I thought were good thoughts to put
eighty five thousand words down on a page and print
it off and if nothing else, give it to family
and friends. So that was my long standing motivation. Okay,
(38:14):
we are going to take a short break, but when
we return, I want to answer some of the questions
you guys asked me over on Instagram about how to
write a book. Very very simple question, the one we've
been talking about this entire time. But I wanted to
hear from you guys and your specific questions, so stay tuned. Okay,
(38:38):
so you guys know, this is a new thing that
we're doing where I get you guys to ask your
questions about any episodes or ideas that we are discussing.
And today the questions had to do with the act
and the process of writing. This first question comes from Lauren.
How do you know where to start? Now? I think
(38:59):
for me that was quite I did initially start with
the first chapter. However, as I went along, I started
jumping between sections. So Person and Progress has four sections.
Each of them are very different from the last. One
of them is about work, one of them is about relationships,
one of them is about healing. One of them is
about everyday twenty something experiences. I would just choose the
(39:21):
chapter that I felt I most wanted to write that day,
until I ended up at the chapter at the very
end that I at least wanted to write, which ended
up being the one on heartbreak. But how I would
answer this question is that where you need to start
is where you feel most called to start and most
passionate to write about. What is the chapter, the section,
the component of the book that you feel most exhilarated by.
(39:44):
You know. I heard about this author through my friend
Alex actually, who runs Basic Bitch book Club, and she
was telling me how one of these authors, and she
was telling me that one of the authors of her
favorite book actually started writing the book at the end,
like in the last three chapters. So the last chapters
(40:07):
that we read when we read that book were the
first chapters she wrote because the story she was telling,
the reason she wanted to tell it was because it
had a specific ending that she really wanted to capture,
and then she worked backwards from there. Some people like
to begin at the very beginning. I don't think that's
necessarily always the best way for everyone. Start where you
(40:30):
feel most called to begin, And if you don't know
where to start, start by just fleshing out some key ideas.
Start by maybe even writing a mini chapter from someone
else's perspective on the main character and what they look like.
Someone once gave me this brilliant writing exercise. If you
want to flesh out your main character or a character
(40:51):
in your book more, imagine what someone would see or
know about them from encountering them in a coffee shop.
So write a minich from the perspective of a third
party watching, learning looking at your main character. It might
not end up in the book. It probably won't end
up in the book, but it will give you more
of an idea of where to go from there and
(41:13):
more of an inspiration. This next question, I love. How
to finish a draft. I just keep rewriting the first
three chapters. I totally get this. If you're a bit
of a perfectionist like myself, it can feel like you
cannot move on from a chapter unless it is up
to your incredibly high standards. I don't think that's necessarily
(41:36):
a bad thing. I think it shows care and love
and appreciation for your work. However, I do understand that
it's frustrating, and that if you have a book that's
going to end up being thirty chapters and you've only
written three, you kind of want to get the ball rolling.
My biggest tip for this is to put those three
chapters aside, put them in one document, start chapter four
in a new document, so that there is not the
(41:58):
pressure or the kind of urge to go back and
scroll up a little bit and just start changing words
here and there, or you know, finding synonyms or antonyms
for this word or that word, or changing very very
minor things. Pretend that you are starting the book from
chapter four and start writing it from there. Another great
way to basically force yourself to write is to put
(42:22):
on a fifteen minute timer or a twenty minute timer
and say this does not have to be good, this
doesn't have to even be comprehensible. I'm just going to
write for fifteen minutes and see what comes up and
see what flows through me. I think the roadblock that
you are facing is one of perfectionism, and I also
think it's one of a fear of failure, which often
(42:43):
they go hand in hand. Giving yourself space and room
for whatever you're writing to be imperfect. Maybe not that
great will also provide you with a lot of freedom
to just make mistakes and to make creative errors that
actually end up being creative doorways. Here's our next question.
I've always wanted to write, but I feel like no
(43:04):
one cares about what I have to say. This is
kind of similar to this question from Ella, how do
you push through imposter syndrome? Will anyone read this? Maybe
no one will read it. I do think people will
read it. Firstly, I will say that, but maybe they won't.
My question is why is that a bad thing? Why
is it that every single form of creation has to
(43:27):
receive outside acknowledgment and can't just be for our own
for you know, the sake of it, for our own
internal pleasure and enjoyment of the activity that aside, Because
I know that's quite a nihilistic view of things and
quite a pessimistic view, and maybe not for everyone. If
you are thinking, why should I write a book? No
(43:48):
one cares what I have to say. No one cares
what anyone has to say until they say it. The
question I always like to ask people is why not you?
Genuinely why not you? And you might come up with
a couple of reasons. All of those reasons are your
self doubt trying to sabotage you. And when self doubt
(44:09):
tries to sabotage you, it's actually trying to protect you.
It doesn't want you to get hurt. It doesn't want
you to feel embarrassed, it doesn't want you to feel rejected,
and so it will keep you in the safest place,
which is the place where you were doing nothing. Every
single person I think who has written a book has thought,
and I've definitely thought this, like why am I doing this?
No one cares what I have to say, No one's
(44:32):
going to buy a copy, Everyone's going to hate it.
And then I just remind myself that if that's the case,
I still got so much out of it up up
until this point. And everyone had to write their first draft,
everyone had to put out their first book. Every single person,
every single author that you admire, has had those same thoughts,
and they still were committed to writing it when they
(44:54):
were or nobody, when no one knew who they were,
and their novels, their books, their manuscripts ended up changing lives.
So I hope that helps you feel better about either alternative.
So this final question is was actually a really really
common one. How do you go about getting a publisher
slash agent? What's the process like and what are the
chances of being rejected? All right, I'm not gonna lie.
(45:18):
The chances of being rejected are quite high. However, rejection
is a doorway, rejection is redirection, rejection is a mirror
rejection as a motivator. Rejection is not something to be
afraid of. Here's the other thing. You can get rejected
by the same publishing house like six or seven times,
Like they might say, go away, fix this, bring it back.
(45:40):
We still don't like it. Go away, fix this, bring
it back. Just because something was rejected in its current
form doesn't mean it's going to be rejected again, doesn't
mean it's going to be rejected by someone else. There
have been so many examples of authors who have gone
on to write incredible books who have been rejected many,
many times, and I'm sure those publishing houses were sitting
(46:01):
there being like, oh, we really screwed up, We really
dropped the ball on that one. As long as you
believe in yourself, I know that you are going to
work hard and you are going to find new avenues
to get your work out there. When it comes to
finding a publisher. A couple of tips that I would
(46:23):
give is go to heaps of industry events, cold email,
ask other established authors or people that you know who
have written books to read your manuscript. Try not to
focus on needing a publisher to write. Just write the thing.
I do feel like having a book that's already written
is perhaps a selling point because they can tell if
(46:45):
they like it or not, and they can kind of
get a sense of where they might want to take
that initial draft. And remember, there are so many ways
to be published. I'd also say start submitting chapters to magazines,
to journals, to literary magazines as well. Just try and
get your work out there and know that the right
(47:06):
people will find it. It might just not be your
time now. It doesn't mean that your time isn't going
to come. I think that's all we have time for today.
Thank you so much, all of you for being so
invested as to make it this far into the episode.
If you did make it this far, I want you
to leave the name of the book that has changed
(47:26):
your life. What is the book that you are so
glad someone wrote and then it feels like they wrote
it just for you because Honestly, I need some reading recommendations.
I am so sick of reading my own book. It
feels like all I do is read my own book,
Like I read it at events, and I read it online,
and I read it out loud, and I read it
from the audiobook, and I'm like, I'm sick of you.
(47:48):
I don't want to look at you anymore. Just kidding.
I love her so much, but I'm ready to read
something else inspiring. I'm ready for a palette cleanser. I'm
ready just to you, you know, I'm ready just to
see what was going on in other people's brains, as
delivered through their words. So leave a comment below and
(48:08):
share this episode with someone who you believe might need it,
might enjoy it, might love it, might appreciate these tips.
Make sure you're following me on Instagram at that Psychology
Podcast to ask future questions for future episodes. Finally, I
can't leave without saying this. If you have the means,
please consider buying a copy of Person and Progress. It
(48:30):
would be greatly appreciated. Until next time, stay safe, be kind,
be gentle with yourself, and we will talk very very soon.
Host
Jemma Sbeghen
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