May 13, 2025 • 48 mins
Have you ever opened up, shared something real, and then immediately regretted it? That post-overshare spiral—the “why did I say that?” dread—is what we call a vulnerability hangover. In this episode, we dive deep into the psychology behind why vulnerability can feel so physically and emotionally intense, even when it’s necessary, honest, and healing.
We explore:
- The two types of vulnerability hangovers (and why both are valid)
- Why alcohol, trauma dumping, and people-pleasing make it worse
- How shame and past betrayals shape our fear of being seen
- The neuroscience behind your emotional "come down"
- What to do the day after you said too much
- How to make vulnerability a tool for connection—not something to fear
Plus, we answer listener questions on post-therapy crashes, drunk confessions, and how to stay open even when it’s hard. If you’re sitting with a case of the cringe, this episode is for you.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, everybody, Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to
the podcast, new listeners, old listeners. Wherever you are in
the world, it is so great to have you here.
Back for another episode as we, of course break down
the psychology of our twenties. Let's be so real right now.
Saying what we mean and what we feel is really hard,
(00:24):
and it is certainly not helped by some of the
sensations we feel afterwards, the kind of cringiness of feeling
like we overshare that we said too much to the
wrong person. In other words, the experience a vulnerability hangover.
It's something you and I, the whole world every person
(00:45):
has most likely experienced at some stage. You know, you
confess to your romantic feelings for someone, you say the
wrong thing after a night of drinking, you share too much,
and afterwards it just feels like the world is going
to end. But vulnerability hangovers are actually remarkably and entirely normal.
(01:10):
They occur for so many reasons, the biggest one being
that in general, when we are seriously open and honest,
so many times we bring things to the surface that
usually we are not exposed to on the day to day,
and that creates a major flood, a high, a breach
(01:31):
in our walls, and then the next day we crash.
You feel everything at once when you're vulnerable with other people,
either accidentally or on purpose, and then you have to
get back to your equilibrium. Your mind and to an extent,
your body. They're just trying to adjust, and that's why
this sense of being emotionally hungover occurs. It certainly doesn't
(01:55):
help that there is an implicit stigma around over sharing.
There is shame directed towards big emotions, and that at
times you know people are going to betray our trust
and let us down, and so time and time again,
we often learn to associate vulnerability with its downsides and
(02:15):
its consequences rather than many of its implicit benefits. But today,
my lovely listeners, we are going to break down, really
break down what is going on in your body, in
your mind, in the social and emotional centers of your
brain when you are vulnerable, and in the aftermath and why.
(02:36):
So many of the current scientific findings are saying that
our lack of everyday vulnerability and the aversion and negative
reactions we have to vulnerability is what is causing rising
levels of loneliness, disconnection, mistrust and division. You know, it's
this episode when I started writing it, when I started
(02:57):
thinking about it, I was like, oh, it's this one thing,
and it actually turned into this whole other discussion around
what we need as humans, what we aren't getting as humans,
and how that is actually kind of hurting society. All
of it coming back to this one idea of vulnerability hangovers,
which kind of seem rather inconspicuous.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
But here we go.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
There is so much to cover, so much to get into.
We'll was going to talk about what you can do
if you are currently experiencing a vulnerability or an oversharing hangover,
and just so much more. So let's get into it.
Let's start with a basic history, lesson, and a basic
(03:41):
definition before we get into some of the nuances of
this emotional experience. The term vulnerability hangover comes from none
other than the brilliant author and academic Brene Brown, who
we know and love for her books What's So Big,
One Dead to Lead. I also love her book The
Gift of Imperfection. She also did an incredible TED talk
(04:04):
called The Power of Vulnerability where she essentially lays down
this core platform or idea that what gives life meaning
is connection, and what creates connection is vulnerability. And if
you take all that reasoning back to its origin, essentially
what she's saying is vulnerability is the most important emotion
(04:26):
that we have as humans now, the reason so many
of us feel so alone, especially in this generation, especially
in our twenties. She argues that it's because really what
we're struggling to do is let others see us deeply,
and we're very afraid that once they peek behind this
curtain that we're kind of keeping up, soon they may
(04:48):
see things that they didn't want to see and that
we didn't want them to see, and they will find
a reason not to love us. And so any kind
of vulnerability, you know, risks that kind of ex bosure,
so we avoid it. We keep our walls up, even
though we do truly want to be known and we
want to be seen by other people. Part of our
aversion to vulnerability includes the experience of a vulnerability hangover,
(05:13):
this feeling of regret, anxiety, shame that follows sharing something
really personal with someone else, either intentionally or accidentally. So
this is exactly what a vulnerability hangover can feel like.
You may find yourself second guessing every single thing you said,
ruminating thinking about what you could have said differently, but
(05:37):
also trying to remember exactly how the other person looked,
what they said, what you said, what their exact reaction
was to certain pieces of information or words. It's this
kind of posthumous like emotional monitoring of the situation with
the intention of almost trying to make yourself feel better
(05:59):
and self soothes, but actually picking further at the wound.
You may also experience shame spirals why did I say that?
Why did I do that? I'm a bad person. I
don't deserve to be around people like I don't deserve
to have these emotions shame, shame, shame getting you to
a very low point. There's this sudden desire to withdraw
(06:20):
or an avoidance of this person afterwards, out of fear
that maybe their behavior towards you will now be different
and that will confirm once and for all that you
did misstep and say the wrong thing. There's the urge
to fix it, to downplay what you shared, to kind
of go back on your word, and also a real
(06:40):
physical discomfort. It feels like this mixture between anxiety, the
desire to run away, but also the desire to stay
still and hope that you know, time will move on
and you won't have to think about it. There's this nausea.
It's just this complicated, complicated sense's complicated combination of sensations.
(07:02):
I should say, the best way I've actually heard it
described is like unconsciously giving yourself the ick from oversharing,
And really that's exactly what it is, right. It's really
essential to know, though, right from the beginning, that not
all vulnerability hangovers are created equal. In fact, there are
(07:24):
two distinct categories. The first is situations where we didn't
really want to reveal something but we did, you know,
for example, disclosing too much when you've been drinking, confiding
in the wrong person when your instincts were already telling
you it was a bad idea, or you know, just
accidentally letting something slip you really weren't fully prepared to
(07:45):
go in depth on. The second situation occurs when we
did feel like it was necessary to be honest and open,
but we still feel really uncomfortable after the fact, even
though we knew and we still know it was an
important thing to do so. After therapy, after a hard
chat with a friend, after breaking up with someone, maybe
(08:07):
having a deep and meaningful conversation with a parent, or
a sibling or a coworker to repair a relationship. These
are really crucial moments. They're really crucial, but they are
also really hard. So the two categories accidental and intentional.
Let's talk about that first category for a minute, the
(08:27):
unexpected disclosure and the vulnerability hangover that comes in the aftermath.
So this happens in a few situations. Firstly, you know
something has happened really quickly and unexpectedly, so quickly that
you didn't really have time to emotionally regulate, so you
automatically seek emotional catharsis with just the first person you see,
(08:51):
because they just happen to be there. You know, you
happen to come across them. You tell them everything, you
regret it. You've probably had this experience where you know
you've had a really bad argument with your friend, you've
just gotten bad news, you're really wound up, you're frustrated,
and then you kind of run into someone like you
semi no, and it just feels like you just need
(09:13):
to tell them, you just need to get it out
of your system, and so you do, perhaps against your
better judgment. So I actually have a name for this.
I call this drive by vulnerability. It's kind of like
when you get McDonald's on a road trip because it's
the only thing available even though you normally probably wouldn't
and it's probably gonna make you feel sick. Like this
(09:34):
person is your drive by, this person is your drive through.
You know you would normally tell a trusted friend you
would normally choose the nourishing option, but the urge to
share is so overwhelming, the hunger is so strong, you.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Take the drive in.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
You take the convenient option, even if it doesn't feel
as good, and you know afterwards you walk away thinking, God,
I feel really gross.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Maybe I should have waited.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
But the only reason you're thinking that is because the
urge is now gone, right, you don't remember how strong
it was beforehand.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
The second situation.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Where this is really common is when things have kind
of also been silently building up over time, and then
there's this very sudden trigger or catalyst that causes this
kind of emotional spillage with the first person in sight,
and it's basically a straw that breaks the camel's back
scenario when you least expect it. This can also be
described by the term trauma dumping.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Trauma dumping. We hear a lot about this these days.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
And it's this kind of unexplainable, instantaneous desire to make
your experience is tangible and more manageable by saying them
out loud, by saying them to someone else.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
You know.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Obviously, verbalizing our emotions is a really healthy coping mechanism.
It's an important one. It's very important. But the caveat
being is that you have to do it with someone
who you trust and who was also opted in to
having this hard conversation with you. But in these situations,
the ones we're describing, you find yourself trauma dumping to someone.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Who you have no idea if you can.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Trust, but also someone who you have no idea if
they're actually prepared to hear it. You just can't help yourself.
Trauma dumping is actually quite common amongst people with complex PTSD,
you know, especially amongst people who maybe don't yet have
the skills to cope with such a nuanced experience of trauma.
(11:35):
So they're just looking for any kind of relief that
they can get, and sometimes the only relief is to
share the burden with someone else. There's kind of this
occasional attitude amongst people who don't understand trauma dumping. They
think it's like a selfish act. They think, you know,
it's done without someone's consent or care to their feelings.
(11:55):
It's malicious. It's not malicious. Often this person just can't
help them themselves, and that side of their brain, the
part that can rationally intercept and say, wait, maybe this
person doesn't want to hear this, maybe this is kind
of heavy. That's that part of their brain is kind
of switched off by all the pain they're in. You know,
(12:16):
they've lived with this trauma as well for a lot
of years, and so they maybe also don't realize that
others don't live with it right, So there's an asymmetry
and experience that can be tricky because you know, they've
kind of adjusted to how shocking and traumatic this thing
is and you're hearing it for the first time compared
to them who's been living it for so many years,
(12:37):
Like they just perhaps don't understand that it would really
hurt you. So the best advice I have if you
mean trauma dumped too, is to just be kind, to listen,
but don't provide any advice. Don't get too involved at
that moment, and don't be afraid to intercept and go, hey,
I just really I don't think we should be talking
(12:57):
about this right now.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
I just don't have the headspace.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Can we just circle back on this later, Like, let's
set a time aside so you can really talk to
me openly about these things and I can be in
my most receptive state, the state.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
That you deserve.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
You've got to remember, sometimes it's really just the release
that they're after, nothing more, nothing less. So the final
situation where we really regret disclosure in the aftermath because
we didn't intend to share so much obviously occurs in
the presence of alcohol.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Alcohol.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
This is a big one for people in their twenties,
especially because so many social situations are alcohol based, Like
when was the last time you hung out with people
and a drink was not involved? And I mean socially,
not like at work. Hopefully you're not drinking at work
at like twelve, I mean like with your friends. Because
alcohol is so prevalent in social situations that combines true things. Firstly,
(13:57):
less inhibitions mixed with more tunity is to share. And
I find this is especially common when you've kind of
run out of things to talk about. Have you ever
found this? Recently, I was at a friend's birthday dinner,
sitting next to someone I've never met, and the conversation
was stalling, and so I just told them something vulnerable
(14:18):
about my life, just to like relieve the awkwardness. And
it wasn't something like harmful. It was just super awkward
and super personal because I just wasn't thinking clearly, because
I just was looking for this connection and I didn't
want either of us to feel weird. And later I
was like, this person now knows this thing about me
(14:40):
that most people don't know, and why did I do that?
Alcohol obviously has an inhibitory effect on our brain. It
slows everything down, including our impulse control and our ability
to make rational decisions. So in the aftermath this can,
you know, also of course, create a lot of anxiety,
and it can be hard to isolate whether that anxiety
(15:01):
is because you actually embarrassed yourself or it's just your
brain's withdrawal from alcohol, which is naturally creating and causing
your anxiety to spike. You know, that's the hard thing.
Alcohol makes you overshare and then naturally heightens your anxiety. Afterwards,
so you can't really separate the two. If it's any consolation,
(15:23):
nine out of ten times that person is not judging you,
they won't think twice about it. They'll forget it in
a few days. Like I was trying, I was doing
this thought exercise recently. I was like, when was the
last time someone told me something when they were drunk
and I judged them for it? Or I was like,
that's weird. I can't remember, Like, I just can't remember
because we are not thinking about people that deeply. And
(15:45):
in fact, study published in twenty twenty two in the
Journal of Experimental Psychology found that this is true. We
regularly overestimate how much people are thinking about us and
for how long, and actually people.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Move on pretty quick.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
But because of this phenomenon, which is called the beautiful
mess effect, we generally think that our own displays of
vulnerability are more visible and perceived negatively compared to others.
And that's totally not the case. It is totally not
the case that people are talking and gossiping about your
(16:26):
vulnerability and that it is as much of a story
in their lives as it is for you. We're going
to talk about this a little bit more later on
how to deal with the regret of oversharing. But let's
talk about that second category of vulnerability hangovers first. And
this is the category where we intentionally step into our
(16:50):
vulnerability because we know that the outcome is worth it,
but we still feel rather raw afterwards. So I've said
this before, I will say it again, say it till
the cows come home. I truly believe that relationships survive
on difficult conversations. You cannot have a healthy relationship without
having deep and hard chats at times.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
You know.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
I believe that's the case with friends, family, boyfriend's girlfriends,
even colleagues. You know. One of my real guiding philosophies
in life actually is that a friend is not a
good friend until you have had a disagreement and you've
made it through the other side, because now you understand
each other so much better because it required you to
be vulnerable, It required you to be completely exposed and
(17:38):
to say, please don't hurt me anymore, please meet me
where I'm at. And for those of the people who do,
you come out so much stronger despite that. It's it's hard,
It's really freaking hard, especially if you're quite conflict averse.
Conflict diversion essentially means you really dislike anything that could
(18:00):
lead to someone being upset at you, being disappointed in you,
or discussions that would create unease. Conflict avoidance is and
you may have already guessed this significantly more common amongst
people who are chronic people pleases. Now the people pleases
real mission is not just to make everyone like them,
(18:22):
but also to save themselves from the discomfort of disappointing others,
because that discomfort feels a lot more severe to them
than to the average person. That can mean that they
appear as others. They're very agreeable, they say yes when
they should be saying no. But it also means that
they block out uncomfortable feelings, they let resentment linger for longer.
(18:46):
And I found that sometimes it is more comfortable or
easier for them to completely avoid someone, to maybe even
ghost them and to potentially lose the relationship. That is
easier for them than having a thirty minute hard chat
that could have, you know, otherwise save the relationship. And
(19:08):
it's not to say their cutthroat or they're cold or
they're harsh. The pressure and the feeling and the thought
of someone not liking them explicitly because of something that
they've done and something that they've said is so much
more uncomfortable than the idea of, you know, just letting
someone kind of fizzle out of their life, of never
(19:29):
having to confront them for it, never having to have
a vulnerability hangover. I would really recommend reading the article
called the Complexity of People Pleasing by Psychology Today if
you want to understand this more. But here's the thing,
the longer you find ways to avoid disagreement, the harder
it gets to appreciate the benefits of pushing past the
(19:52):
discomfort of vulnerability. This experience of vulnerability, you know, it
is somewhat painful in the moment, but when you avoid it,
and when you associate it with only negative experiences and
negative internal reactions like shame, discomfort, the ick, this can
make it so much harder and harder to practice. And
(20:13):
it reinforces those same uncomfortable feelings when we do, and
they're so much more magnified because we're not accustomed to them.
Until you know, we trust very very few people to
actually share things with, and any kind of disclosure is
met with immediate withdrawal from us. Because of this long
(20:34):
term association because we aren't in the practice of being vulnerable.
And I think at its worst, our avoidance of vulnerability
it can create real barriers to intimacy and real barriers
to authenticity.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
But here's the thing.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
I think that we are judging ourselves for our oversharing
and for our vulnerability and for our disclosures way too harshly.
Shame would not be a natural reaction to vulnerability. So
we're going to take a short break. I'm going to
explain why is that we do experience so much weirdness
(21:09):
and unpleasantness around being vulnerable, and what we can do
about it. So stay with us. The reason we feel
such an emotional reaction is not because vulnerability is inherently
or morally bad. Sometimes we equate negative feelings to mean
(21:32):
that something must be naturally quite evil. That kind of
explains the reason why we feel a natural discomfort when
we lie or when we hurt others, because we know
it goes against some kind of moral code, some kind
of rule for how we treat others. The thing is
the reaction we have towards vulnerability that has been artificially
(21:55):
in stated. It's come from past experiences we have been
taught no one wants to hear your business. People are
going to use your vulnerability against you. People see this
as weakness. People are gonna judge you. Keep it to yourself.
You should be ashamed. And we learn this so so young.
Think about the first time you were told to shut
(22:17):
up when you were crying, or your very valid feelings
were discounted, or someone rolled their eyes, someone told you
to stop overreacting, someone sent you to your room for
just saying I feel sad, or I feel in pain,
or I feel uncomfortable. That shame around vulnerability starts very,
very early, and research will tell you that the experience
(22:39):
of shame as a child makes children feel as though
they are inadequate. It creates sensations of humiliation, It makes
us see ourselves in a negative light. But it also
creates a behavioral loop in which we learned, through social conditioning,
not to repeat those same actions that put us into
this place of unpleasant and shame. So we avoid vulnerability
(23:03):
because again of that artificial association with being scolded, with
being ashamed, with being told not to have big emotions.
But if you were raised in an environment where this
wasn't the case, you would not have this association, it
just wouldn't exist, because again, you're not naturally meant to
feel this way. This emotional reaction is something inflicted on
(23:27):
us by early experiences and by a toxic approach to
vulnerability that has been quite frankly, I think brewing for generations.
So shame is the first core ingredient behind vulnerability hangovers.
The second part is the betrayal of trust that may
have occurred when you were vulnerable in the past. You know,
telling people things hard things brings so much to the surface,
(23:52):
but sometimes people take those hidden parts of us that
take a lot of courage to reveal and use them
against her. I think about this time when I was
in I was probably twelve, and I told someone that
I really liked them, that I had a crush on them,
and he went and told everybody, and someone made like
(24:15):
all these MySpace Facebook like posts about it, and everyone
was talking about it, and it really really hurt, and
I was like, well, I'm never going to do that again. Well,
you know what about that time that you trusted somebody
with a secret and they didn't respect the sanctity of it,
and suddenly everybody knew. Everyone's had an experience where their
vulnerability was weaponized against them, and when those experiences become
(24:40):
core memories for you, what you begin to learn is
that being vulnerable is a violation of your emotional safety zone.
It's a threat in the amygdala, the part of your
brain that's responsible for fear detection. It's going to be
screaming a whole lot of message messages at you. It's
going to be telling you to run high yourself, try
(25:02):
and be cold, try and play it off, anything to
keep away the emotional danger. And that's why vulnerability hangovers
can also feel so physical, because the amigdala can't really
tell the difference between a physical and an emotional danger.
It's going to respond kind of biologically and physiologically in
the same way, leading to a crash afterwards. I think
(25:25):
you're also part of seeing vulnerability as a threat is
thinking that there is a rejection waiting for you right
around the corner. You're anticipating a change in their behavior,
You're anticipating judgment, and that vulnerability hangover is our brain
mentally preparing us for rejection and kind of exhausting itself
(25:48):
by the possibility. By overthinking the possibility. The thing is
you know, we really do have it all wrong. We
really do need to be vulnerable, despite people, yeah, maybe
using it against us, despite it kind of being painful sometimes,
despite the fact that we may be rejected. You know,
if no one has told you this before, people want
(26:11):
to be around people who are soft and open and
generous with their experiences. They want to be around people
who create an environment for others to also share and
let their guard down.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
You know, it's a.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Very heavy world right now. It genuinely feels like frickin
end time. Sometimes we all want to feel less alone.
Vulnerability is that solution. It is the birthplace of everything
we're hungry for. In fact, to quote some recent research
at you guys, we have found time and time again,
those of us who are more open about hard things
(26:46):
and honest with their feelings, they enjoy greater personal success.
They have more friends, they have more positive emotions, which
seems counterintuitive, and they have greater self esteem. So let's
talk about the secret source to doing this. How can
we be more authentic? How can we make vulnerability a
bigger part of our relationships and our lives? But also
(27:07):
what do we do when we encounter vulnerability hangover like
how do we approach that to begin with, to create
and start creating those positive associations in our mind between
being vulnerable and feeling calm, passionate, kind towards ourselves. So,
if you think you've said too much and you're kind
(27:27):
of cringing at your words, here's exactly how I want
you to manage this in a way that isn't just
going to make you feel better now, but help you
in the long term. Firstly, we are going to remind
ourselves once again, nothing is ever as serious as our
mind makes it out to be. We're just going to
mentally ground ourselves for a moment. And I'm actually going
(27:47):
to give you permission to catastrophize. I know that's probably
not what you expected me to say, but yes, really
let yourself right now, let your mind go wild. What
is the worst case scenario. You've just said something stupid,
stupid last night, you got too drunk, you confessed your feelings,
You've been way too open with someone. What's the worst
(28:09):
case scenario right now? This person doesn't like you, they
think you're weird, they don't want to be around you.
Whatever it is, push the barriers of your imagination. Now
you've got that worst case scenario in mind. Guess what
you can handle that That situation you're thinking of right now,
it's totally manageable. It's not going to kill you. You
(28:32):
would survive. And I want you to remember your brain
is in overdrive. It's in fear mode right now. When
that's the case, it's always going to make things seem
a thousand times worse because it's trying to prepare you
to practice your escape route. It's trying to test you.
This situation you're thinking of is not going to happen,
And the good news for you is that you know
(28:53):
that even if it did, you'd be fine.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Anyways.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
This is just your silly little brain. You're silly, over
protective brain. Sometimes it gets it wrong. Actually in these
cases most of the time it does. So you've got
to call it out. You've got a name exactly what
you're feeling right now, which is say it with me,
a vulnerability hangover. That simple act of labeling can really
(29:18):
reduce the grip that shame and anxiety has on us.
I also want you to choose to think differently about
your actions. So instead of asking yourself why did I
say that?
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Ask what was.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
I needing in that moment shift from criticism to curiosity.
Be curious about how your brain is firing, why it's
choosing to disclose in those moments. What was it about
that situation that really opened up your need to.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Be vulnerable with someone? You were honest for a reason.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
You were probably seeking connection, you were seeking healing. And
that's the intention that really matters. Even if the aftermath
is uncomfortable. There's real beauty in that. It's real courage
in letting like a really sensitive, gilly part.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Of yourself be seen.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
I also want you to know that, repeatedly studies have
shown us that vulnerability actually helps others trust you more.
It helps others feel less isolated, it helps others feel
more connected to someone. So you may have actually done
this person a favor by being vulnerable, either intentionally or
unintentionally by saying hey, this is an environment where you
(30:35):
can do the same by saying hey, I actually implicitly
some part of me hopefully trusts you trust me as well.
Really avoid the urge to backpedal. I've been there, I've
done that. I've texted someone in the morning after being like, hey,
you know the thing that I said, Like, can we
just keep that between us, like I'm super sorry that
I said that blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
No, because that is.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Implicitly unco anxiously sending you your brain a signal that
what you did was wrong and that you need to
apologize and you need to, you know, pull yourself back
into this invisible space where your emotions are not allowed
to be viewed. Please don't do that. Avoid the urge
to backpedal. You can message someone and say, hey, thanks
(31:22):
for listening to me last night, to reinforce that this
is actually, of course, if it's not trauma, if it
wasn't a trauma dumping situation, like it was just a
deep chat that you were both involved in, like just
to reinforce that this was okay and that you feel
comforted by them. Also, just reach out to friends and
what we call safe people afterwards, especially if you feel
(31:44):
a little bit of regret or remorse, Just go on
and tell them about how you're feeling about it, because
most of the time they'll say, oh, that's nothing, that's okay,
I've been there, I was fine, And maybe that's the
example that we kind of need. If you're really fixating,
(32:05):
if you're really struggling. There is nothing a little bit
of distraction can't fix. It's okay, it's okay to just
get out of your head and into your body and
into your environment for a little while, especially if that's
what you need to then come back and integrate the experience.
So feel free to give your brain something else to
fixate on, something else to enjoy, so that the only
(32:27):
feeling that is present in your body is not shame
and anger and stress and anxiety. We are trying to
interrupt that connection between and that immediate association I should say,
between vulnerability and discomfort. So any way of doing that
so that future vulnerability doesn't become something that's off limits
(32:48):
to you is super important. Over time as well, you know,
we do want to develop a greater emotional tolerance to
exposing ourselves to other people. That really does seem to
be the long term solution here, and especially if you're
in your twenties right now, this is an amazing time,
an amazing opportunity. We have to rewire how we think
(33:08):
about our emotions when we are still in such a
formative period. If we got this right, if we can
do this right, you can go the next sixty years
without another vulnerability hangover, only a vulnerability glow up, only
a vulnerability glow. I should say, if you can successfully
integrate this, you can go the next sixty years with
(33:28):
really powerful, meaningful relationships where people say what they mean
and they mean what they say. What a huge win
for humanity if more of us were doing that. The
thing that has made this so much easier for me
is modeling myself on authentic individuals online, or modeling myself
on a person who I really adore, who has the
(33:51):
kind of conversations I would want to have, and who
are incredibly open. I can name a few of these people.
The big one for me is, of course, Elizabeth Gilbert.
She wrote Big Magic, she wrote Eat Prey Love. She
was on the podcast recently and she has a new
book coming out where she talks about the grief of
losing the love of her life and she's just so
(34:13):
raw about it, and I just was like blown away
by that, and I was like, wow, I am so
inspired by her, and I'm so attracted to her spirit
and her energy. And so it's kind of like the
way when you were a kid you would want to
wear the same clothes or appear like you get the
(34:34):
same haircut as your favorite celebrity or pop star. You know,
the older you get now you're like emulating your like
emotional heroes and you're like spiritual heroes. But looking at
her and thinking about her. Anytime I do something vulnerable
where I'm like, ugh, was that the right decision, I'm like, well,
if she's doing it and I like her, then maybe
someone will like me for doing it as well. So really,
(34:56):
the principle behind this is just vicarious learning. Vicarious learning
was something first articulated by Albert Bondura. It's a part
of social learning theory, which basically says that the easiest,
one of the easiest ways to adopt, consciously or unconsciously
a new pattern of behavior, or to give yourself permission
to act a certain way is to view people you
(35:19):
admire doing the thing that you want to possess in yourself.
And the reason he says this works is because it
lowers the perceived risk, it reduces your sense of self doubt,
and it activates these things called mirror neurons. So these
are cells in our brain that fire both when we
act and when we observe someone else acting the way
(35:41):
that we want to, so they really help us simulate
the emotional and social experience of people we admire, so
it reinforces that behavior. This is who I am. I
am someone who is vulnerable. I'm someone who is okay
being vulnerable by allowing us to identify with someone else
who we also admire for doing these things, and I
think it's a beautiful thing because then you can slowly
(36:03):
become one of those people. And again I want to
remind you people want people in their lives who are
vulnerable and messy. I have a thought experiment for you
on this one. Quickly, are you ready? Would you rather
be friends with a someone who is perfect constantly? This
(36:27):
person makes no mistakes, This person is always happy, this
person is always fun to be around. Or would you
rather be friends with someone who is imperfect, has stories
for you of when they screw up, who feels big emotions,
who isn't constantly on, who is willing to have hard chats,
and who was also equally fun to be around. I
think the answer is obvious. People aren't cardboard. They're not
(36:50):
cardboard cutouts. We want to mention, we want depth. People
are craving that right now with so much freakin' AI
and you know whatever fake news going around. So, vulnerability
is actually a real human asset, something that you know,
a robot artificial intelligence can never emulate. It's a real
(37:10):
gateway to becoming closer with people, to seeing their souls,
to getting to hear the words you know, me too
come back to you after sharing and feeling so much
less alone. Some final tips on accepting and embracing vulnerability.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Make sure that the people you.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Initially are vulnerable with are safe witnesses who are going
to show you empathy and emotional maturity. Don't expect certain
outcomes from your vulnerability. Life is still unpredictable. Your vulnerability
does not promise you anything. And really practice the principles
of gradual exposure, incrementally exposing yourself to more and more
(37:52):
vulnerability over time so that you can kind of rewire
your fear response. Okay, those are my tips for a
more vulner generation and for not just dealing with a
vulnerability hangover in the moment, but as a long term
part of who you are. We are going to take
a short break, but when we return, we have four
fabulous listener questions, So stay tuned. Alrighty, so I keep
(38:21):
introducing this segment, but I feel like people are used
to it by now. I'll probably only do this one
more time if you haven't heard this segment yet. What
we've been doing is inviting you, guys, the listeners, to
ask some of your more niche questions about each topic
that we're doing, so that we don't miss anything, so
that we cover everything. So every week I ask for
(38:41):
your questions on our upcoming episodes, your dilemmas, queries, qualms, questions,
whatever it is. And here are the ones we got
for the idea of vulnerability hangovers. This first one I love.
Why does this happen post therapy? Every time I go
to therapy, I find that for the rest of the day,
I am super sensitive, I'm irritable, I cry more, and
(39:01):
I always end up crashing. Is that a vulnerability hangover? Yes,
it totally is, And oh my goodness, I've never related more.
I'm the same. I always have to schedule therapy in
the afternoon or even the evenings, otherwise like the whole
day is out of whack. When I was working corporate,
I used to like just take the whole day off
(39:24):
because I'm just like I just can't. I was only
doing it like twice a month, but I was like,
I just can't do this. I would just take my
sick leave because I would come in and someone would
be like, oh, did you see that email?
Speaker 2 (39:34):
And I'd be like what email?
Speaker 1 (39:35):
And I'd be like, I don't know, I have a
pin here this morning, and I'd be crying. Therapy is
the intentional vulnerability hangover we were talking about before, even
though we know we can trust this person, even though
even though we are opting into this experience and we
know it's safe so much as coming to the surface.
The really good thing about therapy and why it really
(39:58):
works is that it it makes so many of our
feelings and our emotions and our thoughts visible that we
typically would ignore throughout our day, and we typically ignore
them for general functionality and survival purposes. You know, there's
a lot of big thoughts and feelings in our bodies
and in our brains, and if we were constantly thinking
(40:18):
about them, we wouldn't get much done. Therapy gives us
the space to think about them, and that can actually
be both very well warding and very raw, very revealing.
So that is exactly why you are feeling the way afterwards,
the way that you do everything's come to the surface,
it's going to sit there for a while and then
(40:39):
it will settle. So my biggest hip do therapy in
the evening, go home and just do something you really
want to do that's cozy, comforting and calm to kind
of ride that wave. This next question, can extreme vulnerability
be maladaptive? Now, I'm assuming we're not talking about trauma dumping,
(41:00):
because yes, that can be very maladaptive if you don't
find ways to manage your vulnerability and your desire to
express vulnerability in a way that doesn't harm others. I
also think that vulnerability can be maladaptive if we're doing
it artificially, in the sense that you're doing it just
(41:20):
to force an early or an unnatural connection with someone
by using experiences that you typically would tell someone about
to fast track a connection. I see there's a lot
in dating, especially if the person you're dating is somewhat
emotionally unavailable or not committing. Sometimes unconsciously we're like, well,
(41:44):
if they know more about me, if I share more,
they will feel more connected to me, and so I'll
kind of trick them into being with me, not to
trick them but essentially be like, oh, look, I've made it,
so we are much closer than we are perhaps on
an natural timeline. So I don't think that happens a lot,
but I do think that can be maladaptive. The second
(42:05):
way I think it can be maladaptive is if you
aren't thinking about the other person and if you aren't
noticing if it's triggering or upsetting them, and you know,
sometimes that's something that you do need to be looking
out for, especially if this is a stranger, someone you
don't know as well. It's why I always say go
to those trusted, safe individuals first. It can be maladaptive
(42:27):
and harmful if you are accidentally exposing people to things
that maybe they're not entirely comfortable with for their own
past history reasons. Whatever it is, This next question I
love could do a whole episode on it.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
Is it true?
Speaker 1 (42:45):
Drunk words are sober thoughts in regards to vulnerability hangovers
post drinking. Okay, I had to go and do some
research on this. My perspective has always been yes, I yes,
no ifs or butts. I think that if someone says
something when they're drunk, perhaps they wouldn't have said it
(43:07):
the same way when they were somer, but they were
definitely thinking about it. I think the confessions, the emotional
expressions that you make when your impulses are lessened are
often things that you have previously guarded and that you
couldn't find the right time to talk about. The reason
(43:28):
I say this is because I know how alcohol works
on our brains. I know that alcohol is not a hallucinogen.
It's not a psychedelic. It's not going to create new scenarios.
It's not going to suddenly make you this creative person
who is like, oh, I'm going to come up with
a grievance like that grievance had to have had some
(43:50):
kind of inspiration from something previously. What I do know
about alcohol is that it's a relaxant, it's a depressant.
It is going to really lower those social inhibitions. So
I will say be gracious sometimes someone they probably regret
it a lot, and sometimes they just say it.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
In the wrong way.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Look for the deeper meaning in it. Be open and
have a chat with it. And if you're the one
who said the thing, the naughty thing, that's when you've
been drunk own up to it, like you just got
to fess up and say, hey, I didn't say that
in the best way, but I did mean something deeper,
and this is what I meant, and I should have
said it to you when I was sober, and I'm sorry.
We have time for one final question. I wasn't sure
(44:34):
if I wanted to answer this question, but I talk
about this a lot with my friends, so I was like,
I'll talk about it with you guys as well as
a public figure and someone who talks a lot about
their emotions and mental health online, how do you cope
with being vulnerable? Have you found it difficult? Other things
you just can't share for that reason. So I posted
(44:56):
an episode last year about my mental breakdown that was
probably the most vulnerable I've ever been on the internet,
and probably the most vulnerable I've ever been ever to
some people.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
You know it kind of it shocks me.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
That I decided to do that, even though it was
you know fully, it was a choice I made very
pragmatically and with a clear head. It is hard being
vulnerable sometimes, I'll be honest, I do feel like parts
of my life have to be commodified. As an example,
in order to provide advice right stories about my love life,
(45:36):
or my friendship breakups or my mistakes. I'm like, oh, yeah,
that sucks, but now I have a good story out
of it, which is sometimes hard because it does occasionally
feel like there are things I need to keep sacred,
there are things that I can't share. I think being
vulnerable about my relationships is something that I don't necessarily
(45:58):
do because that's not just me, that's someone else I
don't know, even if no one knew who they were.
Just the idea that they they would have to hear
my opinion on something first through this and not through
an honest conversation just feels kind of strange. But I
find it's easier to be vulnerable online and just in
(46:22):
my life because deep down, implicitly, I know that it
is probably helpful to someone, even if it's not completely
entirely visible. And I know that changing the culture that
we have towards our emotions and our feelings is sometimes
big moments. And sometimes you think about when Prince Harry
(46:45):
talked about mental health, that was like a huge moment
I think in our pop culture history, that just one
that I can think of that change things.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Not overnight but pretty rapidly.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
And then there's just little moments and little things for
people hear someone talking about something and they go, oh,
maybe I should talk about that more. Maybe I should
ask more questions about that, Maybe I should listen more
when someone else talks about it in my real life.
So I find it hard sometimes, but I definitely think
have better boundaries and it always feels like there's more
reward that comes from being vulnerable than any kind of
(47:20):
consequence imaginable. So thank you so much for your very beautiful,
very well thought out questions. This is quickly becoming my
favorite segment. But hey, if you've made it this far,
you're privy to our emoji of this episode, which is
a bubble a bubble or a bubble buff or something
soft and vulnerable and I don't know, something soft and cozy.
(47:42):
That's going to be our emoji for the day. If
you have listened to.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
This point, thank you for joining us.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
As always, if you have questions about this episode, if
you want to give feedback, if you have thoughts things
that have come up for you, follow me on Instagram
at that Psychology podcast, or you can follow me at
jemasbeg with a j to see more personal behind the
scenes stuff. That's going on with the show. Make sure
that you are following along. Leave a comment, not just
(48:11):
our bubble emoji, but any other thought that you have.
Share it with a friend if you feel coold to
do so, and remember to stay safe, be kind, be
gentle to yourself, be vulnerable, and we will talk very
very soon.
Hello, everybody, Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to
the podcast, new listeners, old listeners. Wherever you are in
the world, it is so great to have you here.
Back for another episode as we, of course break down
the psychology of our twenties. Let's be so real right now.
Saying what we mean and what we feel is really hard,
(00:24):
and it is certainly not helped by some of the
sensations we feel afterwards, the kind of cringiness of feeling
like we overshare that we said too much to the
wrong person. In other words, the experience a vulnerability hangover.
It's something you and I, the whole world every person
(00:45):
has most likely experienced at some stage. You know, you
confess to your romantic feelings for someone, you say the
wrong thing after a night of drinking, you share too much,
and afterwards it just feels like the world is going
to end. But vulnerability hangovers are actually remarkably and entirely normal.
(01:10):
They occur for so many reasons, the biggest one being
that in general, when we are seriously open and honest,
so many times we bring things to the surface that
usually we are not exposed to on the day to day,
and that creates a major flood, a high, a breach
(01:31):
in our walls, and then the next day we crash.
You feel everything at once when you're vulnerable with other people,
either accidentally or on purpose, and then you have to
get back to your equilibrium. Your mind and to an extent,
your body. They're just trying to adjust, and that's why
this sense of being emotionally hungover occurs. It certainly doesn't
(01:55):
help that there is an implicit stigma around over sharing.
There is shame directed towards big emotions, and that at
times you know people are going to betray our trust
and let us down, and so time and time again,
we often learn to associate vulnerability with its downsides and
(02:15):
its consequences rather than many of its implicit benefits. But today,
my lovely listeners, we are going to break down, really
break down what is going on in your body, in
your mind, in the social and emotional centers of your
brain when you are vulnerable, and in the aftermath and why.
(02:36):
So many of the current scientific findings are saying that
our lack of everyday vulnerability and the aversion and negative
reactions we have to vulnerability is what is causing rising
levels of loneliness, disconnection, mistrust and division. You know, it's
this episode when I started writing it, when I started
(02:57):
thinking about it, I was like, oh, it's this one thing,
and it actually turned into this whole other discussion around
what we need as humans, what we aren't getting as humans,
and how that is actually kind of hurting society. All
of it coming back to this one idea of vulnerability hangovers,
which kind of seem rather inconspicuous.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
But here we go.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
There is so much to cover, so much to get into.
We'll was going to talk about what you can do
if you are currently experiencing a vulnerability or an oversharing hangover,
and just so much more. So let's get into it.
Let's start with a basic history, lesson, and a basic
(03:41):
definition before we get into some of the nuances of
this emotional experience. The term vulnerability hangover comes from none
other than the brilliant author and academic Brene Brown, who
we know and love for her books What's So Big,
One Dead to Lead. I also love her book The
Gift of Imperfection. She also did an incredible TED talk
(04:04):
called The Power of Vulnerability where she essentially lays down
this core platform or idea that what gives life meaning
is connection, and what creates connection is vulnerability. And if
you take all that reasoning back to its origin, essentially
what she's saying is vulnerability is the most important emotion
(04:26):
that we have as humans now, the reason so many
of us feel so alone, especially in this generation, especially
in our twenties. She argues that it's because really what
we're struggling to do is let others see us deeply,
and we're very afraid that once they peek behind this
curtain that we're kind of keeping up, soon they may
(04:48):
see things that they didn't want to see and that
we didn't want them to see, and they will find
a reason not to love us. And so any kind
of vulnerability, you know, risks that kind of ex bosure,
so we avoid it. We keep our walls up, even
though we do truly want to be known and we
want to be seen by other people. Part of our
aversion to vulnerability includes the experience of a vulnerability hangover,
(05:13):
this feeling of regret, anxiety, shame that follows sharing something
really personal with someone else, either intentionally or accidentally. So
this is exactly what a vulnerability hangover can feel like.
You may find yourself second guessing every single thing you said,
ruminating thinking about what you could have said differently, but
(05:37):
also trying to remember exactly how the other person looked,
what they said, what you said, what their exact reaction
was to certain pieces of information or words. It's this
kind of posthumous like emotional monitoring of the situation with
the intention of almost trying to make yourself feel better
(05:59):
and self soothes, but actually picking further at the wound.
You may also experience shame spirals why did I say that?
Why did I do that? I'm a bad person. I
don't deserve to be around people like I don't deserve
to have these emotions shame, shame, shame getting you to
a very low point. There's this sudden desire to withdraw
(06:20):
or an avoidance of this person afterwards, out of fear
that maybe their behavior towards you will now be different
and that will confirm once and for all that you
did misstep and say the wrong thing. There's the urge
to fix it, to downplay what you shared, to kind
of go back on your word, and also a real
(06:40):
physical discomfort. It feels like this mixture between anxiety, the
desire to run away, but also the desire to stay
still and hope that you know, time will move on
and you won't have to think about it. There's this nausea.
It's just this complicated, complicated sense's complicated combination of sensations.
(07:02):
I should say, the best way I've actually heard it
described is like unconsciously giving yourself the ick from oversharing,
And really that's exactly what it is, right. It's really
essential to know, though, right from the beginning, that not
all vulnerability hangovers are created equal. In fact, there are
(07:24):
two distinct categories. The first is situations where we didn't
really want to reveal something but we did, you know,
for example, disclosing too much when you've been drinking, confiding
in the wrong person when your instincts were already telling
you it was a bad idea, or you know, just
accidentally letting something slip you really weren't fully prepared to
(07:45):
go in depth on. The second situation occurs when we
did feel like it was necessary to be honest and open,
but we still feel really uncomfortable after the fact, even
though we knew and we still know it was an
important thing to do so. After therapy, after a hard
chat with a friend, after breaking up with someone, maybe
(08:07):
having a deep and meaningful conversation with a parent, or
a sibling or a coworker to repair a relationship. These
are really crucial moments. They're really crucial, but they are
also really hard. So the two categories accidental and intentional.
Let's talk about that first category for a minute, the
(08:27):
unexpected disclosure and the vulnerability hangover that comes in the aftermath.
So this happens in a few situations. Firstly, you know
something has happened really quickly and unexpectedly, so quickly that
you didn't really have time to emotionally regulate, so you
automatically seek emotional catharsis with just the first person you see,
(08:51):
because they just happen to be there. You know, you
happen to come across them. You tell them everything, you
regret it. You've probably had this experience where you know
you've had a really bad argument with your friend, you've
just gotten bad news, you're really wound up, you're frustrated,
and then you kind of run into someone like you
semi no, and it just feels like you just need
(09:13):
to tell them, you just need to get it out
of your system, and so you do, perhaps against your
better judgment. So I actually have a name for this.
I call this drive by vulnerability. It's kind of like
when you get McDonald's on a road trip because it's
the only thing available even though you normally probably wouldn't
and it's probably gonna make you feel sick. Like this
(09:34):
person is your drive by, this person is your drive through.
You know you would normally tell a trusted friend you
would normally choose the nourishing option, but the urge to
share is so overwhelming, the hunger is so strong, you.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Take the drive in.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
You take the convenient option, even if it doesn't feel
as good, and you know afterwards you walk away thinking, God,
I feel really gross.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Maybe I should have waited.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
But the only reason you're thinking that is because the
urge is now gone, right, you don't remember how strong
it was beforehand.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
The second situation.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Where this is really common is when things have kind
of also been silently building up over time, and then
there's this very sudden trigger or catalyst that causes this
kind of emotional spillage with the first person in sight,
and it's basically a straw that breaks the camel's back
scenario when you least expect it. This can also be
described by the term trauma dumping.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Trauma dumping. We hear a lot about this these days.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
And it's this kind of unexplainable, instantaneous desire to make
your experience is tangible and more manageable by saying them
out loud, by saying them to someone else.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
You know.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Obviously, verbalizing our emotions is a really healthy coping mechanism.
It's an important one. It's very important. But the caveat
being is that you have to do it with someone
who you trust and who was also opted in to
having this hard conversation with you. But in these situations,
the ones we're describing, you find yourself trauma dumping to someone.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Who you have no idea if you can.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Trust, but also someone who you have no idea if
they're actually prepared to hear it. You just can't help yourself.
Trauma dumping is actually quite common amongst people with complex PTSD,
you know, especially amongst people who maybe don't yet have
the skills to cope with such a nuanced experience of trauma.
(11:35):
So they're just looking for any kind of relief that
they can get, and sometimes the only relief is to
share the burden with someone else. There's kind of this
occasional attitude amongst people who don't understand trauma dumping. They
think it's like a selfish act. They think, you know,
it's done without someone's consent or care to their feelings.
(11:55):
It's malicious. It's not malicious. Often this person just can't
help them themselves, and that side of their brain, the
part that can rationally intercept and say, wait, maybe this
person doesn't want to hear this, maybe this is kind
of heavy. That's that part of their brain is kind
of switched off by all the pain they're in. You know,
(12:16):
they've lived with this trauma as well for a lot
of years, and so they maybe also don't realize that
others don't live with it right, So there's an asymmetry
and experience that can be tricky because you know, they've
kind of adjusted to how shocking and traumatic this thing
is and you're hearing it for the first time compared
to them who's been living it for so many years,
(12:37):
Like they just perhaps don't understand that it would really
hurt you. So the best advice I have if you
mean trauma dumped too, is to just be kind, to listen,
but don't provide any advice. Don't get too involved at
that moment, and don't be afraid to intercept and go, hey,
I just really I don't think we should be talking
(12:57):
about this right now.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
I just don't have the headspace.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Can we just circle back on this later, Like, let's
set a time aside so you can really talk to
me openly about these things and I can be in
my most receptive state, the state.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
That you deserve.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
You've got to remember, sometimes it's really just the release
that they're after, nothing more, nothing less. So the final
situation where we really regret disclosure in the aftermath because
we didn't intend to share so much obviously occurs in
the presence of alcohol.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Alcohol.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
This is a big one for people in their twenties,
especially because so many social situations are alcohol based, Like
when was the last time you hung out with people
and a drink was not involved? And I mean socially,
not like at work. Hopefully you're not drinking at work
at like twelve, I mean like with your friends. Because
alcohol is so prevalent in social situations that combines true things. Firstly,
(13:57):
less inhibitions mixed with more tunity is to share. And
I find this is especially common when you've kind of
run out of things to talk about. Have you ever
found this? Recently, I was at a friend's birthday dinner,
sitting next to someone I've never met, and the conversation
was stalling, and so I just told them something vulnerable
(14:18):
about my life, just to like relieve the awkwardness. And
it wasn't something like harmful. It was just super awkward
and super personal because I just wasn't thinking clearly, because
I just was looking for this connection and I didn't
want either of us to feel weird. And later I
was like, this person now knows this thing about me
(14:40):
that most people don't know, and why did I do that?
Alcohol obviously has an inhibitory effect on our brain. It
slows everything down, including our impulse control and our ability
to make rational decisions. So in the aftermath this can,
you know, also of course, create a lot of anxiety,
and it can be hard to isolate whether that anxiety
(15:01):
is because you actually embarrassed yourself or it's just your
brain's withdrawal from alcohol, which is naturally creating and causing
your anxiety to spike. You know, that's the hard thing.
Alcohol makes you overshare and then naturally heightens your anxiety. Afterwards,
so you can't really separate the two. If it's any consolation,
(15:23):
nine out of ten times that person is not judging you,
they won't think twice about it. They'll forget it in
a few days. Like I was trying, I was doing
this thought exercise recently. I was like, when was the
last time someone told me something when they were drunk
and I judged them for it? Or I was like,
that's weird. I can't remember, Like, I just can't remember
because we are not thinking about people that deeply. And
(15:45):
in fact, study published in twenty twenty two in the
Journal of Experimental Psychology found that this is true. We
regularly overestimate how much people are thinking about us and
for how long, and actually people.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Move on pretty quick.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
But because of this phenomenon, which is called the beautiful
mess effect, we generally think that our own displays of
vulnerability are more visible and perceived negatively compared to others.
And that's totally not the case. It is totally not
the case that people are talking and gossiping about your
(16:26):
vulnerability and that it is as much of a story
in their lives as it is for you. We're going
to talk about this a little bit more later on
how to deal with the regret of oversharing. But let's
talk about that second category of vulnerability hangovers first. And
this is the category where we intentionally step into our
(16:50):
vulnerability because we know that the outcome is worth it,
but we still feel rather raw afterwards. So I've said
this before, I will say it again, say it till
the cows come home. I truly believe that relationships survive
on difficult conversations. You cannot have a healthy relationship without
having deep and hard chats at times.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
You know.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
I believe that's the case with friends, family, boyfriend's girlfriends,
even colleagues. You know. One of my real guiding philosophies
in life actually is that a friend is not a
good friend until you have had a disagreement and you've
made it through the other side, because now you understand
each other so much better because it required you to
be vulnerable, It required you to be completely exposed and
(17:38):
to say, please don't hurt me anymore, please meet me
where I'm at. And for those of the people who do,
you come out so much stronger despite that. It's it's hard,
It's really freaking hard, especially if you're quite conflict averse.
Conflict diversion essentially means you really dislike anything that could
(18:00):
lead to someone being upset at you, being disappointed in you,
or discussions that would create unease. Conflict avoidance is and
you may have already guessed this significantly more common amongst
people who are chronic people pleases. Now the people pleases
real mission is not just to make everyone like them,
(18:22):
but also to save themselves from the discomfort of disappointing others,
because that discomfort feels a lot more severe to them
than to the average person. That can mean that they
appear as others. They're very agreeable, they say yes when
they should be saying no. But it also means that
they block out uncomfortable feelings, they let resentment linger for longer.
(18:46):
And I found that sometimes it is more comfortable or
easier for them to completely avoid someone, to maybe even
ghost them and to potentially lose the relationship. That is
easier for them than having a thirty minute hard chat
that could have, you know, otherwise save the relationship. And
(19:08):
it's not to say their cutthroat or they're cold or
they're harsh. The pressure and the feeling and the thought
of someone not liking them explicitly because of something that
they've done and something that they've said is so much
more uncomfortable than the idea of, you know, just letting
someone kind of fizzle out of their life, of never
(19:29):
having to confront them for it, never having to have
a vulnerability hangover. I would really recommend reading the article
called the Complexity of People Pleasing by Psychology Today if
you want to understand this more. But here's the thing,
the longer you find ways to avoid disagreement, the harder
it gets to appreciate the benefits of pushing past the
(19:52):
discomfort of vulnerability. This experience of vulnerability, you know, it
is somewhat painful in the moment, but when you avoid it,
and when you associate it with only negative experiences and
negative internal reactions like shame, discomfort, the ick, this can
make it so much harder and harder to practice. And
(20:13):
it reinforces those same uncomfortable feelings when we do, and
they're so much more magnified because we're not accustomed to them.
Until you know, we trust very very few people to
actually share things with, and any kind of disclosure is
met with immediate withdrawal from us. Because of this long
(20:34):
term association because we aren't in the practice of being vulnerable.
And I think at its worst, our avoidance of vulnerability
it can create real barriers to intimacy and real barriers
to authenticity.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
But here's the thing.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
I think that we are judging ourselves for our oversharing
and for our vulnerability and for our disclosures way too harshly.
Shame would not be a natural reaction to vulnerability. So
we're going to take a short break. I'm going to
explain why is that we do experience so much weirdness
(21:09):
and unpleasantness around being vulnerable, and what we can do
about it. So stay with us. The reason we feel
such an emotional reaction is not because vulnerability is inherently
or morally bad. Sometimes we equate negative feelings to mean
(21:32):
that something must be naturally quite evil. That kind of
explains the reason why we feel a natural discomfort when
we lie or when we hurt others, because we know
it goes against some kind of moral code, some kind
of rule for how we treat others. The thing is
the reaction we have towards vulnerability that has been artificially
(21:55):
in stated. It's come from past experiences we have been
taught no one wants to hear your business. People are
going to use your vulnerability against you. People see this
as weakness. People are gonna judge you. Keep it to yourself.
You should be ashamed. And we learn this so so young.
Think about the first time you were told to shut
(22:17):
up when you were crying, or your very valid feelings
were discounted, or someone rolled their eyes, someone told you
to stop overreacting, someone sent you to your room for
just saying I feel sad, or I feel in pain,
or I feel uncomfortable. That shame around vulnerability starts very,
very early, and research will tell you that the experience
(22:39):
of shame as a child makes children feel as though
they are inadequate. It creates sensations of humiliation, It makes
us see ourselves in a negative light. But it also
creates a behavioral loop in which we learned, through social conditioning,
not to repeat those same actions that put us into
this place of unpleasant and shame. So we avoid vulnerability
(23:03):
because again of that artificial association with being scolded, with
being ashamed, with being told not to have big emotions.
But if you were raised in an environment where this
wasn't the case, you would not have this association, it
just wouldn't exist, because again, you're not naturally meant to
feel this way. This emotional reaction is something inflicted on
(23:27):
us by early experiences and by a toxic approach to
vulnerability that has been quite frankly, I think brewing for generations.
So shame is the first core ingredient behind vulnerability hangovers.
The second part is the betrayal of trust that may
have occurred when you were vulnerable in the past. You know,
telling people things hard things brings so much to the surface,
(23:52):
but sometimes people take those hidden parts of us that
take a lot of courage to reveal and use them
against her. I think about this time when I was
in I was probably twelve, and I told someone that
I really liked them, that I had a crush on them,
and he went and told everybody, and someone made like
(24:15):
all these MySpace Facebook like posts about it, and everyone
was talking about it, and it really really hurt, and
I was like, well, I'm never going to do that again. Well,
you know what about that time that you trusted somebody
with a secret and they didn't respect the sanctity of it,
and suddenly everybody knew. Everyone's had an experience where their
vulnerability was weaponized against them, and when those experiences become
(24:40):
core memories for you, what you begin to learn is
that being vulnerable is a violation of your emotional safety zone.
It's a threat in the amygdala, the part of your
brain that's responsible for fear detection. It's going to be
screaming a whole lot of message messages at you. It's
going to be telling you to run high yourself, try
(25:02):
and be cold, try and play it off, anything to
keep away the emotional danger. And that's why vulnerability hangovers
can also feel so physical, because the amigdala can't really
tell the difference between a physical and an emotional danger.
It's going to respond kind of biologically and physiologically in
the same way, leading to a crash afterwards. I think
(25:25):
you're also part of seeing vulnerability as a threat is
thinking that there is a rejection waiting for you right
around the corner. You're anticipating a change in their behavior,
You're anticipating judgment, and that vulnerability hangover is our brain
mentally preparing us for rejection and kind of exhausting itself
(25:48):
by the possibility. By overthinking the possibility. The thing is
you know, we really do have it all wrong. We
really do need to be vulnerable, despite people, yeah, maybe
using it against us, despite it kind of being painful sometimes,
despite the fact that we may be rejected. You know,
if no one has told you this before, people want
(26:11):
to be around people who are soft and open and
generous with their experiences. They want to be around people
who create an environment for others to also share and
let their guard down.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
You know, it's a.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Very heavy world right now. It genuinely feels like frickin
end time. Sometimes we all want to feel less alone.
Vulnerability is that solution. It is the birthplace of everything
we're hungry for. In fact, to quote some recent research
at you guys, we have found time and time again,
those of us who are more open about hard things
(26:46):
and honest with their feelings, they enjoy greater personal success.
They have more friends, they have more positive emotions, which
seems counterintuitive, and they have greater self esteem. So let's
talk about the secret source to doing this. How can
we be more authentic? How can we make vulnerability a
bigger part of our relationships and our lives? But also
(27:07):
what do we do when we encounter vulnerability hangover like
how do we approach that to begin with, to create
and start creating those positive associations in our mind between
being vulnerable and feeling calm, passionate, kind towards ourselves. So,
if you think you've said too much and you're kind
(27:27):
of cringing at your words, here's exactly how I want
you to manage this in a way that isn't just
going to make you feel better now, but help you
in the long term. Firstly, we are going to remind
ourselves once again, nothing is ever as serious as our
mind makes it out to be. We're just going to
mentally ground ourselves for a moment. And I'm actually going
(27:47):
to give you permission to catastrophize. I know that's probably
not what you expected me to say, but yes, really
let yourself right now, let your mind go wild. What
is the worst case scenario. You've just said something stupid,
stupid last night, you got too drunk, you confessed your feelings,
You've been way too open with someone. What's the worst
(28:09):
case scenario right now? This person doesn't like you, they
think you're weird, they don't want to be around you.
Whatever it is, push the barriers of your imagination. Now
you've got that worst case scenario in mind. Guess what
you can handle that That situation you're thinking of right now,
it's totally manageable. It's not going to kill you. You
(28:32):
would survive. And I want you to remember your brain
is in overdrive. It's in fear mode right now. When
that's the case, it's always going to make things seem
a thousand times worse because it's trying to prepare you
to practice your escape route. It's trying to test you.
This situation you're thinking of is not going to happen,
And the good news for you is that you know
(28:53):
that even if it did, you'd be fine.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Anyways.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
This is just your silly little brain. You're silly, over
protective brain. Sometimes it gets it wrong. Actually in these
cases most of the time it does. So you've got
to call it out. You've got a name exactly what
you're feeling right now, which is say it with me,
a vulnerability hangover. That simple act of labeling can really
(29:18):
reduce the grip that shame and anxiety has on us.
I also want you to choose to think differently about
your actions. So instead of asking yourself why did I
say that?
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Ask what was.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
I needing in that moment shift from criticism to curiosity.
Be curious about how your brain is firing, why it's
choosing to disclose in those moments. What was it about
that situation that really opened up your need to.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Be vulnerable with someone? You were honest for a reason.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
You were probably seeking connection, you were seeking healing. And
that's the intention that really matters. Even if the aftermath
is uncomfortable. There's real beauty in that. It's real courage
in letting like a really sensitive, gilly part.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Of yourself be seen.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
I also want you to know that, repeatedly studies have
shown us that vulnerability actually helps others trust you more.
It helps others feel less isolated, it helps others feel
more connected to someone. So you may have actually done
this person a favor by being vulnerable, either intentionally or
unintentionally by saying hey, this is an environment where you
(30:35):
can do the same by saying hey, I actually implicitly
some part of me hopefully trusts you trust me as well.
Really avoid the urge to backpedal. I've been there, I've
done that. I've texted someone in the morning after being like, hey,
you know the thing that I said, Like, can we
just keep that between us, like I'm super sorry that
I said that blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
No, because that is.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Implicitly unco anxiously sending you your brain a signal that
what you did was wrong and that you need to
apologize and you need to, you know, pull yourself back
into this invisible space where your emotions are not allowed
to be viewed. Please don't do that. Avoid the urge
to backpedal. You can message someone and say, hey, thanks
(31:22):
for listening to me last night, to reinforce that this
is actually, of course, if it's not trauma, if it
wasn't a trauma dumping situation, like it was just a
deep chat that you were both involved in, like just
to reinforce that this was okay and that you feel
comforted by them. Also, just reach out to friends and
what we call safe people afterwards, especially if you feel
(31:44):
a little bit of regret or remorse, Just go on
and tell them about how you're feeling about it, because
most of the time they'll say, oh, that's nothing, that's okay,
I've been there, I was fine, And maybe that's the
example that we kind of need. If you're really fixating,
(32:05):
if you're really struggling. There is nothing a little bit
of distraction can't fix. It's okay, it's okay to just
get out of your head and into your body and
into your environment for a little while, especially if that's
what you need to then come back and integrate the experience.
So feel free to give your brain something else to
fixate on, something else to enjoy, so that the only
(32:27):
feeling that is present in your body is not shame
and anger and stress and anxiety. We are trying to
interrupt that connection between and that immediate association I should say,
between vulnerability and discomfort. So any way of doing that
so that future vulnerability doesn't become something that's off limits
(32:48):
to you is super important. Over time as well, you know,
we do want to develop a greater emotional tolerance to
exposing ourselves to other people. That really does seem to
be the long term solution here, and especially if you're
in your twenties right now, this is an amazing time,
an amazing opportunity. We have to rewire how we think
(33:08):
about our emotions when we are still in such a
formative period. If we got this right, if we can
do this right, you can go the next sixty years
without another vulnerability hangover, only a vulnerability glow up, only
a vulnerability glow. I should say, if you can successfully
integrate this, you can go the next sixty years with
(33:28):
really powerful, meaningful relationships where people say what they mean
and they mean what they say. What a huge win
for humanity if more of us were doing that. The
thing that has made this so much easier for me
is modeling myself on authentic individuals online, or modeling myself
on a person who I really adore, who has the
(33:51):
kind of conversations I would want to have, and who
are incredibly open. I can name a few of these people.
The big one for me is, of course, Elizabeth Gilbert.
She wrote Big Magic, she wrote Eat Prey Love. She
was on the podcast recently and she has a new
book coming out where she talks about the grief of
losing the love of her life and she's just so
(34:13):
raw about it, and I just was like blown away
by that, and I was like, wow, I am so
inspired by her, and I'm so attracted to her spirit
and her energy. And so it's kind of like the
way when you were a kid you would want to
wear the same clothes or appear like you get the
(34:34):
same haircut as your favorite celebrity or pop star. You know,
the older you get now you're like emulating your like
emotional heroes and you're like spiritual heroes. But looking at
her and thinking about her. Anytime I do something vulnerable
where I'm like, ugh, was that the right decision, I'm like, well,
if she's doing it and I like her, then maybe
someone will like me for doing it as well. So really,
(34:56):
the principle behind this is just vicarious learning. Vicarious learning
was something first articulated by Albert Bondura. It's a part
of social learning theory, which basically says that the easiest,
one of the easiest ways to adopt, consciously or unconsciously
a new pattern of behavior, or to give yourself permission
to act a certain way is to view people you
(35:19):
admire doing the thing that you want to possess in yourself.
And the reason he says this works is because it
lowers the perceived risk, it reduces your sense of self doubt,
and it activates these things called mirror neurons. So these
are cells in our brain that fire both when we
act and when we observe someone else acting the way
(35:41):
that we want to, so they really help us simulate
the emotional and social experience of people we admire, so
it reinforces that behavior. This is who I am. I
am someone who is vulnerable. I'm someone who is okay
being vulnerable by allowing us to identify with someone else
who we also admire for doing these things, and I
think it's a beautiful thing because then you can slowly
(36:03):
become one of those people. And again I want to
remind you people want people in their lives who are
vulnerable and messy. I have a thought experiment for you
on this one. Quickly, are you ready? Would you rather
be friends with a someone who is perfect constantly? This
(36:27):
person makes no mistakes, This person is always happy, this
person is always fun to be around. Or would you
rather be friends with someone who is imperfect, has stories
for you of when they screw up, who feels big emotions,
who isn't constantly on, who is willing to have hard chats,
and who was also equally fun to be around. I
think the answer is obvious. People aren't cardboard. They're not
(36:50):
cardboard cutouts. We want to mention, we want depth. People
are craving that right now with so much freakin' AI
and you know whatever fake news going around. So, vulnerability
is actually a real human asset, something that you know,
a robot artificial intelligence can never emulate. It's a real
(37:10):
gateway to becoming closer with people, to seeing their souls,
to getting to hear the words you know, me too
come back to you after sharing and feeling so much
less alone. Some final tips on accepting and embracing vulnerability.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Make sure that the people you.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Initially are vulnerable with are safe witnesses who are going
to show you empathy and emotional maturity. Don't expect certain
outcomes from your vulnerability. Life is still unpredictable. Your vulnerability
does not promise you anything. And really practice the principles
of gradual exposure, incrementally exposing yourself to more and more
(37:52):
vulnerability over time so that you can kind of rewire
your fear response. Okay, those are my tips for a
more vulner generation and for not just dealing with a
vulnerability hangover in the moment, but as a long term
part of who you are. We are going to take
a short break, but when we return, we have four
fabulous listener questions, So stay tuned. Alrighty, so I keep
(38:21):
introducing this segment, but I feel like people are used
to it by now. I'll probably only do this one
more time if you haven't heard this segment yet. What
we've been doing is inviting you, guys, the listeners, to
ask some of your more niche questions about each topic
that we're doing, so that we don't miss anything, so
that we cover everything. So every week I ask for
(38:41):
your questions on our upcoming episodes, your dilemmas, queries, qualms, questions,
whatever it is. And here are the ones we got
for the idea of vulnerability hangovers. This first one I love.
Why does this happen post therapy? Every time I go
to therapy, I find that for the rest of the day,
I am super sensitive, I'm irritable, I cry more, and
(39:01):
I always end up crashing. Is that a vulnerability hangover? Yes,
it totally is, And oh my goodness, I've never related more.
I'm the same. I always have to schedule therapy in
the afternoon or even the evenings, otherwise like the whole
day is out of whack. When I was working corporate,
I used to like just take the whole day off
(39:24):
because I'm just like I just can't. I was only
doing it like twice a month, but I was like,
I just can't do this. I would just take my
sick leave because I would come in and someone would
be like, oh, did you see that email?
Speaker 2 (39:34):
And I'd be like what email?
Speaker 1 (39:35):
And I'd be like, I don't know, I have a
pin here this morning, and I'd be crying. Therapy is
the intentional vulnerability hangover we were talking about before, even
though we know we can trust this person, even though
even though we are opting into this experience and we
know it's safe so much as coming to the surface.
The really good thing about therapy and why it really
(39:58):
works is that it it makes so many of our
feelings and our emotions and our thoughts visible that we
typically would ignore throughout our day, and we typically ignore
them for general functionality and survival purposes. You know, there's
a lot of big thoughts and feelings in our bodies
and in our brains, and if we were constantly thinking
(40:18):
about them, we wouldn't get much done. Therapy gives us
the space to think about them, and that can actually
be both very well warding and very raw, very revealing.
So that is exactly why you are feeling the way afterwards,
the way that you do everything's come to the surface,
it's going to sit there for a while and then
(40:39):
it will settle. So my biggest hip do therapy in
the evening, go home and just do something you really
want to do that's cozy, comforting and calm to kind
of ride that wave. This next question, can extreme vulnerability
be maladaptive? Now, I'm assuming we're not talking about trauma dumping,
(41:00):
because yes, that can be very maladaptive if you don't
find ways to manage your vulnerability and your desire to
express vulnerability in a way that doesn't harm others. I
also think that vulnerability can be maladaptive if we're doing
it artificially, in the sense that you're doing it just
(41:20):
to force an early or an unnatural connection with someone
by using experiences that you typically would tell someone about
to fast track a connection. I see there's a lot
in dating, especially if the person you're dating is somewhat
emotionally unavailable or not committing. Sometimes unconsciously we're like, well,
(41:44):
if they know more about me, if I share more,
they will feel more connected to me, and so I'll
kind of trick them into being with me, not to
trick them but essentially be like, oh, look, I've made it,
so we are much closer than we are perhaps on
an natural timeline. So I don't think that happens a lot,
but I do think that can be maladaptive. The second
(42:05):
way I think it can be maladaptive is if you
aren't thinking about the other person and if you aren't
noticing if it's triggering or upsetting them, and you know,
sometimes that's something that you do need to be looking
out for, especially if this is a stranger, someone you
don't know as well. It's why I always say go
to those trusted, safe individuals first. It can be maladaptive
(42:27):
and harmful if you are accidentally exposing people to things
that maybe they're not entirely comfortable with for their own
past history reasons. Whatever it is, This next question I
love could do a whole episode on it.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
Is it true?
Speaker 1 (42:45):
Drunk words are sober thoughts in regards to vulnerability hangovers
post drinking. Okay, I had to go and do some
research on this. My perspective has always been yes, I yes,
no ifs or butts. I think that if someone says
something when they're drunk, perhaps they wouldn't have said it
(43:07):
the same way when they were somer, but they were
definitely thinking about it. I think the confessions, the emotional
expressions that you make when your impulses are lessened are
often things that you have previously guarded and that you
couldn't find the right time to talk about. The reason
(43:28):
I say this is because I know how alcohol works
on our brains. I know that alcohol is not a hallucinogen.
It's not a psychedelic. It's not going to create new scenarios.
It's not going to suddenly make you this creative person
who is like, oh, I'm going to come up with
a grievance like that grievance had to have had some
(43:50):
kind of inspiration from something previously. What I do know
about alcohol is that it's a relaxant, it's a depressant.
It is going to really lower those social inhibitions. So
I will say be gracious sometimes someone they probably regret
it a lot, and sometimes they just say it.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
In the wrong way.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Look for the deeper meaning in it. Be open and
have a chat with it. And if you're the one
who said the thing, the naughty thing, that's when you've
been drunk own up to it, like you just got
to fess up and say, hey, I didn't say that
in the best way, but I did mean something deeper,
and this is what I meant, and I should have
said it to you when I was sober, and I'm sorry.
We have time for one final question. I wasn't sure
(44:34):
if I wanted to answer this question, but I talk
about this a lot with my friends, so I was like,
I'll talk about it with you guys as well as
a public figure and someone who talks a lot about
their emotions and mental health online, how do you cope
with being vulnerable? Have you found it difficult? Other things
you just can't share for that reason. So I posted
(44:56):
an episode last year about my mental breakdown that was
probably the most vulnerable I've ever been on the internet,
and probably the most vulnerable I've ever been ever to
some people.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
You know it kind of it shocks me.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
That I decided to do that, even though it was
you know fully, it was a choice I made very
pragmatically and with a clear head. It is hard being
vulnerable sometimes, I'll be honest, I do feel like parts
of my life have to be commodified. As an example,
in order to provide advice right stories about my love life,
(45:36):
or my friendship breakups or my mistakes. I'm like, oh, yeah,
that sucks, but now I have a good story out
of it, which is sometimes hard because it does occasionally
feel like there are things I need to keep sacred,
there are things that I can't share. I think being
vulnerable about my relationships is something that I don't necessarily
(45:58):
do because that's not just me, that's someone else I
don't know, even if no one knew who they were.
Just the idea that they they would have to hear
my opinion on something first through this and not through
an honest conversation just feels kind of strange. But I
find it's easier to be vulnerable online and just in
(46:22):
my life because deep down, implicitly, I know that it
is probably helpful to someone, even if it's not completely
entirely visible. And I know that changing the culture that
we have towards our emotions and our feelings is sometimes
big moments. And sometimes you think about when Prince Harry
(46:45):
talked about mental health, that was like a huge moment
I think in our pop culture history, that just one
that I can think of that change things.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Not overnight but pretty rapidly.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
And then there's just little moments and little things for
people hear someone talking about something and they go, oh,
maybe I should talk about that more. Maybe I should
ask more questions about that, Maybe I should listen more
when someone else talks about it in my real life.
So I find it hard sometimes, but I definitely think
have better boundaries and it always feels like there's more
reward that comes from being vulnerable than any kind of
(47:20):
consequence imaginable. So thank you so much for your very beautiful,
very well thought out questions. This is quickly becoming my
favorite segment. But hey, if you've made it this far,
you're privy to our emoji of this episode, which is
a bubble a bubble or a bubble buff or something
soft and vulnerable and I don't know, something soft and cozy.
(47:42):
That's going to be our emoji for the day. If
you have listened to.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
This point, thank you for joining us.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
As always, if you have questions about this episode, if
you want to give feedback, if you have thoughts things
that have come up for you, follow me on Instagram
at that Psychology podcast, or you can follow me at
jemasbeg with a j to see more personal behind the
scenes stuff. That's going on with the show. Make sure
that you are following along. Leave a comment, not just
(48:11):
our bubble emoji, but any other thought that you have.
Share it with a friend if you feel coold to
do so, and remember to stay safe, be kind, be
gentle to yourself, be vulnerable, and we will talk very
very soon.
Host
Jemma Sbeghen
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