319. How does food affect our psychology?

We’ve all heard the phrase “you are what you eat,” but what if it’s more accurate to say “you feel what you eat”? Behind every meal, snack, or sugar crash is an intricate, fascinating connection between your brain and your gut - one that science is only just beginning to fully understand. In today’s episode, we explore the gut-brain axis: the real, two-way communication system that links your digestive health to your mental well-being. From serotonin production in your intestines to the surprising impact of fermented foods, we break down how what you eat influences your mood, focus, anxiety levels, and emotional regulation - and how your emotions, in turn, influence what you reach for in the fridge.

We explore:
•       The gut-brain axis
•       Why gut microbes might be responsible for your mood swings
•       Foods that support mental health - and ones that can destabilize it
•       Cycle syncing, cravings, and emotional shifts
•       The psychology of emotional eating and comfort food
•       How food morality and rigid diets can harm your mental well-being
•       How to find balance in the food noise

Whether you’re curious about how to eat for a better mood, or want to feel more connected to your body, this episode is for you.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, it's Gemma and I have something really special to
share with you. I'm hosting my first ever virtual live
video podcast. Not a pre recorded episode, not a highlight reel,
but a real time, face to face moment where we
get to connect, laugh, and kind of just reflect together
no matter where you are in the world. Plus, I'm

(00:22):
hosting a VIP after party for my inner circle. I
will be answering your questions and getting to talk to
you guys even more. It's happening August twelfth at seven
pm Pacific time, or August thirteenth at twelve pm. If
you live in my hometown of Sydney, you can grab
your ticket now at pave dot Live. I cannot wait
to see you there.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,
the podcast where we talk through some of the big
life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they
mean for our psychology.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to
the podcast. New listeners, old listeners. Wherever you are on
the world, You guys know the deal. It is so
great to have you here. Back for another episode as we,
of course break down the psychology of our twenties. Before
we get into it, I just want to let you
know that this episode does touch on disordered eating, weight loss,

(01:29):
and discussions of food and calories. I know that this
can be a sensitive topic for some people, so please
just consider whether you are ready for an episode like this,
whether it is something you need to hear today. It
will still be here in a week, in a month,
in a year when you are ready to hear it,
but until then, please take care of yourself and we

(01:51):
will have links to services and resources below. But hello, everybody, Today,
we are serving up a topic at touches literally everyone,
every single day, often without us truly grasping its real impact.
How the very food we eat directly shapes our mood,

(02:13):
mental clarity, and overall emotional wellbeing. Now, this is something
that I've been very interested in personally for a while,
but I've always kind of held off on doing an
episode about it because I'm not a nutritionist. I'm also
not a doctor, so I wanted to make sure that
we got some good researchers in and that we had

(02:33):
all the essential research together because it is kind of
a sensitive topic and one that people can very easily
become misinformed. About. But from a personal level, this is
something that I endlessly fascinated about. I have spent so
much time tracking, considering, thinking about what foods make my

(02:54):
brain feel sharper, lighter, more energized, and what makes me
feel bad in my body, what scrambles my brain, what
makes my health feel worse. I have never been one
to track calories, I probably never will, but I do
track how my mood responds to what I eat, whether

(03:15):
I feel foggy, irritable, or alive and present. And turns
out there's a lot, and I mean a lot of
science behind these reactions. That is so fascinating to dive into.
The truth is your brain is not a solo act
like we typically think that it is. It's actually in

(03:35):
constant conversation with another major organ, your gut. I think
a lot of the time we ignore the psychological role
of food. We say it's just fuel, or it's something
to restrict for weight loss, or it all comes down
to calorie content. But your breakfast, you'll launch, your dinner

(03:56):
choices subtlely impact your daily emotional land escape. There also
impacts your resilience to stress. It may even impact your
risk of anxiety and depression. This is all coming down
to a very emerging field called nutritional psychiatry, which basically
says that when we examine our food, we learn more

(04:18):
about how our brain operates the way that it does.
So in today's episode, we are going to unpack what
exactly this gut brain axis is, why your microbiome matters
way more than you think it probably does, why it's
important to take care of it, how to take care
of it, and of course, how certain foods on your

(04:39):
plate might influence your mood in ways that you've never
even noticed. We're also going to explore how mood affects food,
so things like comfort food, how community and culture play
a role, and what foods we choose to consume, and
the dangers of villainized see certain food. Labeling certain foods

(05:02):
is either good or bad, and why people may think
that that represents clean eating, healthy eating a way to
properly fuel your body, but can actually have the opposite effect.
How we talk about food, the labels we give it
impacts our psychology just as much as the nutritional content

(05:23):
of the food. So there is so much to break down,
so much to acknowledge in this episode, and I think
we clocked over like fifty research papers contributing to this
to this one episode. So you're gonna get a lot
of information all in one go, which is of course
always our intentions. So without further ado, let's get into

(05:45):
how food affects our mood. Stay with us, Okay, So
if we are going to talk about the psychology of food,
we actually we have to move away from the brain
for a second and talk about another essential organ, that

(06:05):
being the gut. Let's waste no time here. We're going
to jump straight into this thing called the gut brain axis.
So the truth is is that we often think about
our brain as the sole command center for our thoughts
and our emotions. It's kind of been how we've been
taught to see it. The truth is your brain and

(06:26):
your gut and constant communication. The gut brain axis is
basically this intricate super highway that is constantly filled with
information traveling in both directions between your digestive system and
your brain, and it involves several key players which we're

(06:46):
going to break down. The first is the vagus nerve.
This is the longest cranial nerve. It runs directly from
your brain stems, so at the bottom of your skull
down to your abdomen. You've probably seen people talking about
this more and more recently. There's been a few very
famous books on it in recent years and how learning

(07:08):
more about your vagus nerve can calm your anxiety, calm stress.
But beyond that, it's basically just a direct, high speed
information pipeline that transmits signals about gut sensations, information even
the microbial state, which in turn does end up influencing
stress response and emotional regulation. For instance, researchers just recently

(07:33):
suggested and found that disruptions in vagual tone basically that's
like the activity in the vagus nerve have been implicated
in anxiety and depression because it has such a critical
role in physiological and psychological arousal and also in our
well being. It also plays a really important role in

(07:55):
the parasympathetic nervous system, which is basically the part of
our nervous system which helps to regulate stress throughout the body,
stress and our alarm response. So if something with this
nerve isn't working, it can make it harder to bring
ourselves down from a state of alarm, from a state
of arousal or stress and meaning that our anxiety and

(08:18):
fear response lasts longer. The next key component of the
gut brain axis are neurotransmitters, the chemical messages that basically
allow for the cells and our body to communicate with
each other. You probably learn about neurotransmitters in science class,
specifically their role in the brain, but nobody probably told

(08:40):
you where they actually come from. It was like, they
exist and then this is their function. You know. For me,
that was the extent of my curriculum, even when I
studied psychology at university. Like, I don't think anyone ever
said in a lecture where neurotransmitters came from. They were
just kind of existing and we just examined what they did.
But one guess where neurotransmitters are made. Your gut. Your

(09:04):
gut produces a significant amount of the very neurotransmitters that
regulate your mood, specifically around ninety five percent of the
body's serotonin, basically our feel good hormone. This feel good
hormone is actually made in the gut by a specific

(09:24):
kind of cell called ento chromophin cells. I'm going to
say it again, enter chromophin cells, which basically secrete and
produce serotonin whilst they are in the gastrointestinal tract. Your
gut microbes also play a really vital role in producing
dopamine is another one. Gabba is another one which you've

(09:48):
probably heard about before. They're all very crucial for mood stability,
for pleasure motivation, and anxiety regulation. So if your gut
microbiome is imbalanced, neurotrans a production can suffer, and that's
what's directly impacting your mood. The third and final component
in the axis is of course the gut microbiome, which

(10:10):
we've already kind of mentioned. You may associate like the
microbiome with things like kombucher, things like Yogi probiotics. It's
always mentioned in marketing for those kind of products. Basically,
the way to describe it is that your gut microbiome
is like a bustling metropolis. It's like a big city

(10:31):
of trillions of bacteria and fungi and other microorganism in
your own testines. People always worry about bacteria and they
think that it's like this terrible thing. That's why we
use hand sanitizer, that's why we need to wash our hands. Whatever.
Bacteria is actually very important for our survivalist humans, and

(10:52):
we have millions, if not billions, of different types of
bacteria in our body at any given time, including in
our microbiome. And that's why the microbiome is called the
second brain, because it's these microbes that actively communicate with
our central nervous system. They produce various compounds as well,

(11:13):
including short chain fatty acids. You cannot live and exist
without these acids, and they also are one of the
only products that can cross out the blood brain barrier
to directly influence brain functioning and to directly help with
inflammation in the brain as well. A lot of very

(11:36):
long words, very complicated words, but when we talk about
gut health, I just basically want you to know we're
not just talking about food. We're not saying candy makes
me feel bad, and that's just because of what's in it.
It's because of the interaction it has with our gut.
This is actually a really foundational pillar of mental well being,

(11:57):
not not the only pillar, but a very foundational one.
And knowing about the gut brain link can actually fundamentally
shift how you approach meals. It's about feeding your mood
as well as your hunger. So let's explore maybe some
specific components of things to put on your mood menu.

(12:19):
What are some of those foods to really lean into
and to really consume more of. From the perspective of
providing your brain with the optimal power to support the
gut brain access, one of the most powerful sources of
fuel for your brain health is complex carbohydrates, those that

(12:39):
are found in whole grains like oats, brown rice, in legumes,
and also the most fruits and vegetables. Unlike really simple sugars,
carbs that are complex provide a really steady release of glucose.
Glucose is the brain's primary energy source, so if you
have a lot lasting source of this, it helps prevent

(13:02):
blood sugar spikes and crashes that can make us really irritable,
make you really tired, make you really anxious. Also because
they're rich in fiber, that also again is beneficial for
our gut bacteria because it acts as a prebiotic prebiotics
and probiotics. I think we should actually just take a
hot moment and give them a dedicated shoutout in this

(13:23):
episode because they are some of your biggest allies in
maintaining a really optimal, stable, healthy gut brain relationship. Probiotics
are like they are live bacteria. It's live bacteria that
is found in fermented foods like yogit, kimchi, sauer, kraut,
kom butcher. They actively replenish and diversify your gut microbiome,

(13:45):
directly supporting your help your health. So think of it
kind of like watering a plant, watering a plant, fertilizing
a plant. This is what probiotics are doing. Then, prebiotics
specific types of dietary fibers that also your gut bacteria.
It's found in things like garlic and onion leaks, asparagus,

(14:07):
unrighte bananas. You need that as well. To thrive, you
need a prebiotic. You need a probiotic, but you can
also moll often always find them in whole foods. I
feel like they're often sold to us in a tablet form.
You don't always need that. You can get it very
easily from a lot of natural sources. We also have
amiga three fatty acids. These are essential for brain structure

(14:30):
connectivity and neuroprotection against inflammation. If you don't have omiga
three fatty acids, the myelin sheaf on your neurons basically
on the axon is going to not be able to
replenish itself as easily, meaning that the connectivity between different

(14:50):
neurons gets kind of frazzled because the message kind of
gets lost along the way. So Amiga three fatty acid
are found in things like salmon, sardines, cheer seeds, walnuts,
flax seeds also super foundational to brain cell function. Twenty
twenty three study published in the Journal of Personalized Medicine

(15:14):
looked at a sample of one hundred and sixty five
patients suffering from mild to moderate depression. Participants were kind
of randomized. They either received an Amiga three supplement, an antidepressant,
or a combination of both. Participants who took both the
antidepressant and the Amiga three tablet showed a significantly higher

(15:34):
improvement in depressive symptoms compared to those who just took
either the supplement or either the antidepressant alone. Basically, it's
not about only choosing one thing. That's a really important
thing from this study that I think we can take away.
Choosing one thing is obviously better than choosing nothing, but
it's when we combine these different health interventions. It's when

(15:56):
we combine modern medicine and the ancient medicine of our food. Okay,
this next thing, I'm going to sound like such a gimbro,
but you got to lean into your proteins as well.
They are very crucial for our brain health. They feel
like protein is having such a moment at the moment,
things like chicken, eggs, tofu, lentils, beans, turkey. You guys

(16:18):
know what protein sources are. But the reason they're so
vital is because protein is broken down into amino acids,
which are the literal building blocks for your bodies neurotransmitters.
For example, trip to fan is an amino acid found
in almost every single protein. It is a direct precursor
to the creation of serotonin in your gut. You literally

(16:40):
cannot make serotonin without trip to fan. So having that
adequate protein intake really rigorously supports stable mood and cognitive function.
If you're someone like if you're a vegetarian, people are
always talking about protein in terms of iron and in
terms of energy levels, but you also need it to

(17:00):
be happy. You need it so that your mood can
properly stabilize itself. There's also the essential micronutrients, which I
feel like don't get enough attention, but are very very
vital for the biochemical reactions going on in our brain,
things like B vitamins Vitamin D often called the sunshine vitamin,
which can reduce inflammation in the brain, support brain development,

(17:22):
support neurotransmission. Without vitamin D, people sometimes suffer from what
we know is the winter blues, not just because it's
depressing when it's dark outside all the time, which is
like a natural consequence of that, but also because there
may be a serious vitamin deficiency. Think someone was telling
me the other day that in the UK, like the

(17:42):
NHS or like some health body like recommended that everyone
be taking a vitamin D supplement. I may be totally
off the mark here, but that is how crucial it is.
Magnesium as well. I take magnesium supplements for sleep. It
is like the one supplement I truly swear by. I
swear by it. When I started taking it, I've never

(18:05):
slept better and I've never looked back. It is incredible.
And also the final one for your brain health is zinc,
which is basically the one ingredient we need for synaptic plasticity.
It helps our brains adapt, it helps them connect, it
helps them learn. This sounds overwhelming. I totally get you.

(18:26):
I feel like I'm sitting in a science or a
health class and a teacher is at a whiteboard like
screaming out I don't know like the functions of different
vitamins to me, and I have to write them down
on like a que card. But when I first started
learning about this stuff, I also was like, I have
no idea what I'm doing. I have no idea how
I'm gonna remember all of this, no idea what the

(18:48):
perfect balance is gonna be. I really did think like, oh,
I need to completely overhaulm my diet, like I need
to completely change everything. But it's actually a lot less
complicated than you think. You probably are also, so unless
you're eating processed food for every single meal, you are
probably already hitting the majority of these things. It's just

(19:08):
about fine tuning things, and it's just about coming back
to these core pillars and just reminding ourselves about why
they are so important. You just basically you just have
to find the balance that works for you. Because good food,
even if it's not the best for you, is also
a source of community. It's also a source of connection
and pleasure. It can be a hobby, yes, there is

(19:29):
some science behind it that is very very important and
very crucial. The science isn't the only thing that matters,
and I don't want that to get lost in all
the scientific terms and all the definitions. So we are
going to talk about balance. We're going to talk about
how to integrate a better mixture of ingredients and things

(19:52):
with nutritional value without losing joy, and also the changes
in vilifying certain foods, because every single food, unless you
are allergic to it, does have a place in our
overall diet. So we're going to talk about all of
that and more after this short break. Hey, it's Gemma

(20:16):
and I have something really special to share. I'm hosting
my first ever virtual live video podcast. Not a pre
recorded episode, not a highlight reel, but a real time,
face to face moment where we get to connect, laugh, reflect,
and honestly just kind of be in it together. No
matter where you are in the world, if you've ever

(20:38):
hit play on an episode of the Psychology of Your
Twenties or Mantra and thought, I really wish I could
just talk to Gena about this right now, this is
your chance. We're diving into the messy, beautiful chaos of
your twenties, your thirties, of life and beyond. And yes,
you get to be right there with me. There's a
live chat so we can talk in real time, and afterwards,

(20:58):
I'm hosting a private VIP par my inner circle we
would call it, where I'll be answering your questions and
getting even more personal. It's happening August twelfth at seven
pm Pacific time, or August thirteenth at twelve pm if
you're in Sydney or Australia, so mark your calendar, tell
your friends, grab your ticket now at pave dot Live.

(21:20):
I can't wait to see you there. When it comes
down to the psychology of food, people always want to
know what is the best diet to be on? What
should I be doing. I kind of hate the word
diet because it kind of suggests like a fad, crash

(21:40):
and burnout change that isn't sustainable. So let's say food lifestyle.
What food lifestyle is the best to emulate. We did
our research, We looked far and wide, and let me
tell you, the consensus time and time again is that
the Mediterranean diet is the one that stands out and
is also importantly the one that is the least restrictive

(22:01):
compared to things like quto or whatever else you're thinking of.
The Mediterranean diet emphasizes whole, unprocessed foods, plenty of fruit, vegetables, legumes, nuts, seeds, olive, oil, fish, poultry,
a little bit of red meat, also like a little
bit of added sugar. Basically, think foods from Greece, Think Italy,

(22:21):
Think Spain, including the desserts, including the tasty treats, including
the pastas and the pizzas, and the big feasts, and
you are in the right area. This diet is the
one that delivers a full spectrum of brain support of nutrients,
and it's really great, not just forell you physically, but
for you mentally. For example, a two thousand and nine

(22:43):
study from researchers at the University of Nevara looked at
the dietary patterns of over ten thousand university students ten
thousand over a period of four years, and what they
found is that students who most closely stuck to a
Mediterranean Mediterranean die pattern had a forty two percent reduced
risk of developing depression. It's not just a collection of

(23:07):
healthy foods. It is a synergistic way of eating that
can really nourish your brain and your mood. I think
also beyond just making certain dietary choices and food choices,
it's also about being more connected to our food as
a whole and noticing instead of ignoring, when you have
a certain reaction or a mood shift after a certain meal.

(23:32):
Do like your own test if you're unsure whether this
is right for you, whether this food lifestyle is right
for you. Have a Mediterranean based meal for try to
eat in a Mediterranean manner for a day, then eat
how you normally would for the next day, and then
try something completely different and just run your own experiment
on yourself. Was there a change, And if there is, surely,

(23:56):
if it's a positive change, that's something you want to
continue to do. If you have the opportunity to feel
less crap, surely that's the avenue that you want to take.
I feel like people can say all that they want,
people can make recommendations. I can make recommendations, and yet
if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you.
So if you're unsure, try it out on yourself. Just

(24:19):
see how it shifts your mood, see how it shifts
your comfort levels, your energy levels, and then you can
base your own behaviors based on the results of how
you've like conducted this on yourself. Now, we've talked a
lot about how food affects our mood and which foods
kind of do that best, But this is bidirectional, So

(24:40):
how does mood affect our food choices. We've all, I think,
found ourselves reaching for a specific food when we are stressed,
when we are sad, when we are bored, when we
are overwhelmed, not primarily because we're physically hungry, but because
we are seeking comfort or distraction. This is emotional eating.
It serves as a coping mechanism or a learned response,

(25:03):
where food becomes something that offers I don't know, I
guess emotional comfort, and it becomes a stand in for
more adaptive ways of processing difficult emotions. On a deeper level,
it actually seems that our brains and our bodies crave
certain foods more based on our emotional state. For example,

(25:25):
when we're stressed, studies have shown we have an increased
appetite for sugary and fatty foods, probably because these are
easier for our body to convert into energy, which of
course it needs. More of when it's understress. Chocolate in
particular is like the one food our brain really wants
us to eat more of, possibly because it's got fat,

(25:47):
it's got sugar, it's delicious, it's high in calories. And again, understress,
our brain requires i think about twelve percent more energy
than normal. Something that's high in fat and high in sugar,
high in high in glucose is a great source of that.
When our mood is really low and really sad, we're
also more drawn to carbs as well. There was this

(26:09):
research from twenty twenty twelve, twenty twelve, twenty twelve that
basically said things like pizza, potatoes, pasta, they're all comfort
foods and they do actually kind of improve our mood,
but only for a second. Then they can lead to
sugar spikes. They can lead to glucose spikes, which make
us more irritated or more tired. And the problem is
is that that can become a cycle. And it's this

(26:32):
weird question that a lot of people in like the
nutritional psychiatry space have, is that is it the food
affecting the mood or is it the mood affecting the food.
And it's kind of like a chicken and an egg problem.
If you're saying that someone's diet is contributing to their depression,
but their depression is contributing to their eating choices, which
is contributing to their depression. Like, firstly, where do you

(26:54):
intercept in that place? And also how do you know
where that started? Was it that the mental health disorder
already existed or was it that the diet came first?
So it's important not just to draw immediate conclusions from
this research and suggests that it's saying, yes, if I
eat processed food of I eat sugar, I am going
to be depressed or I am going to be anxious,

(27:16):
because it is again bidirectional. There's also a science as
to why we feel drawn to specific foods when we
want comfort, and why each of us kind of has
a really nice personal preference for our favorite meal and
what we want on a rainy day, and what we
want on our birthdays, and what we want when we're
going through a breakup, and it's driven by a combination

(27:38):
of factors. Firstly, obviously we really love things that are
high sugar, high fat content, but we also really like
satisfying textures, so creamy or Crunchy foods typically are those
that show up more on comfort food items, and also
foods that have a strong association with positive past memories,
particularly you know, your grandma's apple pie, your dad's spaghetti

(28:01):
bowling naize.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
They did this research I think don't remember the exact year,
but they did this research that basically said that the
comfort food we had as children typically ends up being
the same comfort food we have as an adult, which
I think is quite beautiful. A lot of the food
that we eat that we really enjoy is often deeply
tied to positive memories from our past. These conditioned kind

(28:24):
of associations mean that simply you know, the site, the smell,
even the thought of these foods can evoke feelings of
security and love and happiness, and they act as really
powerful emotional anchors. And this is when it's important to
acknowledge that food enjoyment, the happiness that is brought from food,

(28:46):
isn't just limited to healthy items, all those high in
a specific nutritional value. There is a lot of happiness
and joy and legitimate pleasure to be found in foods
that technically might be described vis indulgent or unhealthy, and
it would be shortsighted to ignore those foods and say

(29:06):
that someone you could have someone who eats like the
cleanest that you have ever seen, but actually maybe less
healthy in terms of their mental health than someone who
eats completely clean but then also really enjoys eating like
their mum's carbonara, or really loves to indulge in like
chocolate cake, I don't know, once a week, twice a week,

(29:27):
because that brings them happiness. Sometimes food can be nourishing,
not just because of nutritional value, is basically what I'm
trying to say. It can be nourishing because of the
memories attached to it, but also because of like the
company that you're in when you're eating it. Like it
has the power to nourish the body and the mind
and the soul. That's why it's such a beautiful, powerful
kind of medicine. I think at this point, I do think,

(29:51):
you know, we can't go any further without saying whilst
the food we eat is important, it is incredibly dangerous
to suggest or to swing to far the other way
and attribute everything about our mood or our mental health
solely to diet, and therefore feel like if we ever
touch anything with artificial sugar or anything that is processed.

(30:12):
You know, our brain is doomed. Food is medicine, but
it's not just medicine, and it's not the only medicine.
And if we believe that it is, I think we
risk really overlooking complex, underlying health issues that demand professional
medical intervention and not just dietary change. I'll say, I
think I eat very very healthy. I eat mainly hold foods.

(30:35):
I still have OCD and I still have depression, and
I take my supplements. Those things didn't like aren't going
to cure me because this is a chronic illness that
I have. And I wouldn't want anyone to take what
I'm saying here and say, well, obviously that means that
anyone who has a mental health condition could change it
and they're choosing not to. If their diet is in

(30:57):
their power, which again it sometimes is an always, well,
then what's their excuse If someone is genuinely suffering and
is told, you know, just eat clean and you'll feel better,
when they're actually grappling with a severe depressive episode or
an undiagnosed chronic illness. It's very harmful, and this oversimplification

(31:19):
can lead to I think significant delays in receiving appropriate care,
prolonged suffering, and it can potentially even worseen the conditions
trajectory and also someone's trust in the medical system. Imagine experiencing,
you know, debilitating fatigue and mood swings, and all you're
told repeatedly is just to eat more greens, cut out

(31:40):
all sugar, and then you do that, but nothing changes.
Then A sometimes you're going to have that experience where
you know a medical professional doesn't even believe that you're
doing those things, so you feel dismissed because they are
so sure that diet will change things for you. And
then when it doesn't, well, you must be the factor
that has gone wrong. In that equation. B you can

(32:02):
feel hopeless that you've done what was asked of you
and it didn't help, so there's no future hope for
you to do anything else. And see, you can also
cut too much out and end up with malnutrition or
a whole other series of problems. It kind of reminds
me of one of my friends who she was diagnosed
with chronic fatigue a few years back, and I'm sure
she doesn't mind me talking about it here, but she

(32:23):
started to go to therapy to be able to deal
with the emotional weight of it all. All the therapists
seem to be able to talk about whether or not
she was taking her vitamins, like literally every session. Not
let's talk about the huge weight of this condition and
how it's impacting you and how you feel like you're
behind and you're missing out on your twenties. Not you know,
how does this impact your relationships your social life. It

(32:45):
was just like, have you taken your vitamins? Are you
putting in like proactive steps? And it was like she was,
and they weren't helping, and she would actually just like
come away from every session feeling a lot of guilt
and a lot of shame. This feeling of being unheard
of having your suffering minimized. Like I said, it can

(33:07):
deeply erode your trust in the medical system, and it
can leave people feeling really, really isolated and really hopeless.
And if we over attribute everything to diet, this is
going to happen more. Also, we have to be careful
about talking about good versus bad foods when we talk
about the psychology of food and how it affects our mood.

(33:29):
Even when an approach with the best intentions laboring foods
is good or bad can quickly slide into a very problematic,
psychologically confusing, psychologically damaging arena where we are attaching morality
to nanimate items. When certain foods are deemed as bad
or dirty and others grouped as good, we inadvertently start

(33:53):
moralizing our eating habits, pure versus dirty, good versus bad.
This isn't just about nutritional science anymore. It's about right
and wrong. The food you eat reflects your moral character.
It reflects how sinful you are your virtue like moral decisions,
and that can really damage our psychological relationship with food,

(34:16):
and it can be really judgmental, really really judgmental. It
also might trigger avoidance of certain foods or certain of
certain social events or spaces where those foods are present,
which means that, yeah, you're gonna suffer. Even if you're
eating all these amazing whole foods that are good for

(34:36):
your brain and you're eating the quote unquote good, clean,
pure foods, your mental health could still suffer because you're
missing out on the richness of life in other areas
and you're restricting but particularly like insidious consequence of these
restrictions can include progressively more disordered eatings such as orthorexia nevosa.

(34:59):
Orthorexia it's not yet a formal diagnosis in the DSM five,
but it is a proposed eating disorder that is characterized
by unhealthy, obsessive preoccupation with healthy or pure eating and often.
I was reading this account from someone who works in
eating disorder woods in the UK. She says a lot

(35:21):
of people who have anorexia nervosa or bolimia nervosa end
up developing orthorexia nervosa as they slowly exit that previous
disorder because orthorexia is kind of easier to disguise and
more socially acceptable. It's just replacing one type of restriction

(35:42):
for another. But because we've attached all these moral ideas
to what kind of foods we should eat and we
shouldn't eat, sometimes people don't notice that being obsessed with
clean eating is just as sometimes problematic as being obsessed
with not eating at all, or being a sessed with
food in any kind of psychologically damaging way. So if

(36:06):
diet advice is absolutely everywhere, and sometimes even unhelpful or harmful,
how do we effectively deal with people who seemingly think
they know what's best for us, when it comes to
our diet, it can feel incredibly invalidating, It can feel intrusive,
It can frankly feel pretty annoying if you have an

(36:28):
invited commentary on it. Now, if you're at your doctor's
office and you're saying, I want to make changes, or
can you make suggestions for areas where I may have
nutritional deficits or may need to increase the intake of
certain things, Obviously that's not going to be harmful. Not
every mention of diet or food is going to harm

(36:48):
every single person. We're talking about strangers, we're talking about
family members, we're talking about friends who just kind of
can't keep their mouths shut when it comes to what
you're putting inside your body. When someone comments directly on
what you're eating or takes like a bit of a
superiority stance on how their diet is so much healthier
than yours, it just you've got to know that it

(37:10):
comes from a place of insecurity and potentially over monitoring
from them. If they're commenting and trying to control what
you're consuming, you can only imagine how much they're controlling
and restricting their own diet, Because, honestly, who really cares
enough to outwardly comment on what other people's eating behaviors reflect,

(37:31):
unless they are the ones who are consumed by it
in their personal lives. Providing someone with unsolicited advice is
everything about them, about their beliefs about food, about their
consumption of diet, culture, about what others have maybe said
to them in the past, and very little to do
with you, because also they don't have the full picture.

(37:53):
We are all so incredibly unique. We all have different
deficiencies and nutrition levels and underling health differences or in tolerances,
underlying relationships with food, either positive or negative. It is
no one's business to give you advice on something you
never asked for, especially not something as emotionally charged as food.

(38:14):
If someone offers you this kind of interjection, it might
be worth responding something like, that's an interesting perspective for
me personally, I'm just focused on what makes my body
feel good these days, or saying something like, oh, I
know you mean well, but comments about eating on my
body aren't particularly helpful for me, so could we change
the topic. You don't owe anyone an elaborate explanation on

(38:36):
your food choices, your body, your choices, your health journey.
The most powerful tool is often to just really set
a clear, kind but firm boundary that allows you to
reclaim autonomy over your personal health narrative. Same goes for
commentary on the internet. So how can we translate all
of this knowledge into actionable steps? How do we continue

(38:58):
to build a relationship with food that truly supports our
mental well being from our gut to our culture to
our personal choices. I think it's about moving away from
rigid rules more towards a place of intuition, respect, information, education,
and just like holistic balance. The more you know about this,

(39:20):
starting with resources like this podcast, starting with books from
health professionals, starting with reading the academic research yourself, the
more you're able to make informed choices, the more you
actually just notice your own body as well. That's like
your biggest source of data, that's your biggest the best
research that you can kind of perform is on yourself.

(39:42):
I think a great way to embrace this is through
mindful eating, through just slowing down, not restricting, not cutting
anything out, just paying attention to your body's signals of hunger,
signals of fullness, signals of energy, signals of sluggishness, savor
the textures, savor the smells, savor the taste. Put away

(40:06):
distractions like your phone or your TV. Do not eat
watching YouTube. I'm sorry, but it is so such an
easy way to disconnect you from the natural feelings and
relationship we have with our food. Same with eating in
front of a TV. I've been trying so hard to
do this. I also have this practice that I've been
trying recently where every time I take the first bite

(40:28):
of my food, I try and imagine what it would
taste like, Like I try and imagine this is the
first ever food I've tried, Like this is the first
time I'm experiencing any of these new flavors, any of
these new sensations, Like I'm an alien who is trying
their first ever like human earth meal, And it kind
of like it's strange, it's fun, which is also always

(40:52):
good to bring some fun into any thing in your life.
And it really reconnects me with like my body's wisdom
and like it's natural enjoyment and curiosity around food and
what it wants to enjoy, what it wants to eat,
what it wants to feel me and what it doesn't. Also,
let's just really try to consciously change the language we

(41:12):
use to describe food. I need to do this as well.
I'm sure I've slipped up during this episode. But just
actively identify and question any things that you call good
versus bad, pure versus evil, clean versus dirty, any of
the labels that you've assigned to food. All foods can

(41:33):
fit into a balanced diet. Releasing those moral judgments about
eating will also significantly reduce feelings of guilt and shame
really foster and more peaceful, sustainable relationship with food. They say,
the easiest way to let something control you is to
try not to think about it and to try and
avoid it. So if you're constantly trying to avoid a

(41:56):
food you deem as bad as bad, or I don't know,
dirt or not clean, like, it's gonna constantly be popping
up in your mind and it's actually going to control
you more compared to if you just freely let it
be part of your life and just enjoyed it every
now and again. Okay, we are going to take another
short break, but when we return, we have some very

(42:18):
interesting listener questions, including where the men and women should
approach their diets slash food lifestyles. Differently, whether there are
certain foods that make our mood worse, and where alcohol
kind of plays a role in this equation. So stay
with us for more after this short break, welcome back.

(42:44):
We have three really great listener questions today to finish
off our episode on the psychology of food and how
it affects our mood, questions that cover topics and cover
kind of avenues of this topic that we have not
even discussed yet. So this is a whole you, whole
new level to this topic. Beginning with this first question
from Isabelle in Vancouver. There is so much noise online

(43:07):
about the harms of ultraprocessed food, food, diyes, sodas, etc.
And I was wondering is there actually science to whether
this food makes our mental health worse? Or is it
just classic online fear mongering. I know you'll get to
the bottom of it. Love the podcast, Thank you, Thank you, Isabelle.
Let's break this question down, like you said, based on
the evidence, based on the science. Firstly, when we're talking

(43:30):
ultraprocessed food, think packaged candy, instant noodle's, fast food. These
have been linked in multiple studies to poor mental health outcomes.
We're just going to start from there. Now we know
that correlation doesn't mean causation, and so to blame mental
health issues squarely on ultraprocessed foods is probably not correct,

(43:53):
but there have been a few studies which do say
it increases the risk, including a twenty twenty two study
published in Public Health Nutrition that found that people who
consumed the highest amounts of ultra processed foods had a
significantly higher rate of experiencing depression and anxiety symptoms. They
kind of linked that mechanism to blood sugar spikes and crashes,

(44:15):
to clock chronic inflammation, and of course disruptions in the
gut microbiome. That's what they were saying. The food was,
that was what it was responsible for creating, which then
created the depression or the anxiety. So it's a mediating factor. Basically.
You know, our guts are these very ancient systems and
they aren't meant to process strange chemicals that don't exist

(44:37):
in the real world, and so when our guts, you know,
encounter these chemicals, they kind of don't really know what
to do with it, and they can become a little
bit confused. That is what causes like the uproar in
the stomach and that is what causes What this study
suggested is the issues later on with psychological symptoms and
psychological arousal. Another study from twenty twenty three, This study,

(45:01):
I think is more rigorous. It had about twenty three
thousand participants and it did also find that a diet
high in ultraprocessed food elevated psychological distress in participants, which,
as a result, is a precursor to depression. So again
it's not a direct factor. It's a mediating or moderating factor,
primarily because of what they said was increased inflammation in

(45:22):
the brain. But it's also hard to rule out other factors,
like is it because people who are living in poverty objectively,
you know, don't have as much money for whole foods
and for fresh fruits and vegetables, so they rely more
on ultra processed foods. But also because they're living in poverty,
they're also more likely to have higher rates of mental

(45:43):
health disorders. So it's not the food that's causing the depression,
it's the poverty that's creating both the depression and the
food choices. Or is it because people with depression find
it easier to rely on ultraprocessed food because it requires
less effort when everything else in they're life feels very
hard to accomplish. So again, it's not that the food

(46:05):
is creating the depression or the food is creating the anxiety,
but other factors. I also think with all the stuff
online that we hear about ultra processed foods, obviously it's
important to consider the science and the fact that there
is evidence to suggest that ultra process food doesn't exactly
help us. But at what level does it start to

(46:27):
harm us? That's another question that researchers haven't really been
able to answer. Is it any process food? Is it
once a week? Is it twice a week? The fact
that there isn't like a specific level upon which ultraprocessed
food and its contribution to your diet becomes dangerous and
people haven't been able to target that shows that this
is still very much based on so many other individual factors.

(46:51):
So my advice would be to consult a dietitian. If
you think ultra process food is an issue for you,
consult a registered dietitian as well. But otherwise, take what
you read online with a large pinch of salt, especially
if people are only talking about their own experience, because
as we can see, it is going to differ from
person to person. And ask people their sources. If they're

(47:13):
gonna make large scale claims, make sure they have evidence
to back it up, and investigate the evidence as well,
and just do what's best for you. You know, a candy
bar isn't gonna kill you unless you choke on the wrapper.
A can of Coke zero or sprite or whatever it
is isn't gonna kill you. I know it's gonna sound
so cliche, but again, it's all about balance. Next question

(47:37):
comes from David. If our brains and stomachs are connected,
surely when we get drunk, digesting alcohol the next morning
also contributes to us feeling bad. What's the impact of
booze in this situation? You know what, David, great question.
I had. Honestly never thought about this. I kind of
always just thought of alcohol as influencing the mind only,

(47:58):
But I went searching for an X one A. So alcohol,
as you may know, increases intestinal permeability. Basically, it's you
might know it as leaky gut. Leaky gut is what
allows toxins and inflammatory molecules to enter the bloodstream into
kind of trigger a systemic inflammatory response. This inflammation is

(48:21):
what affects the brain via the gut brain axis, and
it can worsen symptoms like anxiety, like fatigue and brain fog.
Studies have also shown the alcohol can alter the gut
microbiome and damages the gut lining. Alcohol is also quite acidic,
so when it sits in the stomach, not that it

(48:43):
can damage it, but it is a little bit harder
to process. Think about how our body process is something
that's acidic, it has to find another an equally kind
of counterbalancing like chemical with inscidity in it, or acid
or bile, and so it can kind of just lead
to an imbalance of a lot of different things in

(49:03):
your stomach. It's probably one of the major reasons why
hangovers feel so physically and mentally brutal. I feel like
also TMI, but if you get really drunk, like you
can kind of notice that in terms of your bow movements,
movements like the next day, so there's obviously something going on.
And if you're throwing up, if you're feeling really ill

(49:23):
the next morning, if you're nauseous, like, all of those
are signals from your gut to your brain like something
is wrong. And so if you can consciously tell something
is wrong, that means your brain is seriously like in
over drape up there trying to control whatever's going on
in your stomach. So a paper I did read, though,

(49:43):
said this is not pleasant and it's not comfortable. In
the short term, it might contribute to why you feel
terrible the day after you drink, but it does take
a lot of drinking for this to become severe, and
for alcohol to truly damage your your intestinal track and
your stomach and your gut. You have to be engaging

(50:05):
in some pretty significant alcohol consumption over a number of
years to really mess up the gut brain access. But
it does still happen, and especially with the amount of
like binge drinking that goes on in our twenties. If
you're worried about it, trust your intuition there and maybe
pull back. But yeah, great question. And we have one
final question actually from an anonymous listener. I feel like

(50:28):
different food affects me at different times based on where
I am in my menstrual cycle, especially since I have
pretty bad PMS. Is there any research on what foods
to eat depending on which phase you're in? Just had
to sneak this one in here because I feel like
this is a really great example of a question that
combines food, combines hormones, and combines our mind and the brain.

(50:49):
And the answer is that, yes, the foods you meet
at different phases does impact how you're going to feel.
This is where the concept of cycle sinking with your
food comes in. Some people do it with their exercise,
but basically, cycle sinking is where you change your daily
routines and your daily behaviors based on kind of which
phase you're in, because often our moods and how our

(51:12):
body feels can be a great indicator of what our
body actually needs from us in terms of fuel. In
the mental phase, when you're on your period, estrogen and
progesterone at their lowest, and that often leads to lower energy, fatigue,
potential mood dips. That's why we really crave things like
chocolate and fatty foods and sugary foods. As we said before,

(51:34):
they have a natural comfort element to them. But of course,
because blood is also being lost around this time, our
levels of iron are also depleted, so you want foods
rich and iron like red meat, lentils, spinach. They're really recommended,
and also foods rich in magnesium can actually support muscle
relaxation reduce cramping, so think dark leafy greens and nuts,

(51:59):
but also things that are high in natural sugar so
fructose or just the occasional treat because it's going to
make it feel a little bit easier and make it
more enjoyable for you. As you move to the follicular
phase after your period and until ovulation, estrogen slowly rises again,
bringing with it increased mental clarity. You're in a better mood,

(52:22):
probably feeling pretty sexy, feeling pretty I don't know, feeling
pretty romantic. Here. Your body is in need of lighter
and vibrant, more vibrant foods, so broccoli, cauliflower, hail berries,
which can help with hormone regulation and metabolism. Also lean
into your proteins, lean into your complex carbs. They're really

(52:44):
key for supporting rising energy levels for the ovulation phase
when obviously estrogen and energy levels peak you It's really
important to feed your body easily digestible foods like fresh
fruit and vegetables. The key here is really colorful produce
to help support your cells and to support the growth
of new cells as you finally move into your luteal phase,

(53:07):
where progesterone is dominant estrogen dips. This is obviously the
phase that is most commonly associated with PMS symptoms like
mood swings, irritability, anxiety, fatigue. Within this phase, research shows
us that you're really gonna want something salty, You're really
gonna want complex carbs, things like oats, things like sweet potatoes,

(53:31):
things like dark chocolate. They are all recommended to help
support the production of serotonin and prevent rapid sugar dips
that could just make your irritability and just all those
emotions that you're feeling worse. I think it's just really
empowering to know how to work with our bodies and
adapting our nutrition to our personal needs and what could

(53:53):
nourish us without being restrictive. So as we finish up
this episode, I just want to make it very clear.
Food and moved are linked through the gut brain access.
We know that it's very complex. It is not the
only thing going on. Our brain is also an organ
that has things going on separate to the stomach that
can impact the mental health issues that we're facing and

(54:14):
the mood and stabilities that are afflicting us. So if
anyone ever says you can change your entire brain and
your whole life just with food, unless you have a
severe allergy, that's probably not the case. Make sure that
this is part of a very holistic and diverse, nuanced

(54:36):
perspective on this. Don't let people shame you for your
food choices. As much as we've had very in depth
discussion here, none of this is prescriptive. If it doesn't
work for you, it doesn't work for you. And that
doing what's best for you is always going to be
better than any recommendation that someone might give you that
isn't individualized and isn't personalized. So just keep that in mind.

(54:57):
But I do hope this episode at least gave you
some to think about, gave you some more information. I
want to thank Elizabeth Colbert, our research assistant, for her
contributions to this episode and all the papers and all
the research that she looked into to make this as
comprehensive as possible. If you did enjoy the episode, make
sure to share it with a friend, share it online

(55:18):
on Instagram, I don't know, on LinkedIn, Pinterest, wherever you
share the things that have inspired you recently, so that
we can bring some new listeners to the show. Make
sure you get your tickets for my virtual live show,
which is happening next week. I literally cannot wait. I
could meet as many of you as I possibly can
in that virtual room, and so I hope to see

(55:40):
as many of you there as possible, and ensure that
you are following me on Instagram at that Psychology podcast.
If you want a summary of this episode, if you
want to be able to contribute a listener question, or
for whatever reason, if you've made it this far, I
want you to leave a broccoli emoji down below. Actually no,
we did that one the other day. Guys, I'm losing track.

(56:00):
What's another food that we talked about here? Leave a
little dark chocolate emoji down below. I feel like dark
chocolate was the star of this episode. And until next time,
stay safe, be kind, be gentle with yourself. Don't let
anyone tell you what to eat or when to eat
it unless they are a very qualified doctor or a
very qualified individual. And we will talk very very soon.