September 4, 2025 • 51 mins
In this episode we break down the growing conversation around the “male loneliness epidemic”: what’s true, what’s misleading, and what the research actually says. This is a complex and controversial topic, but one that deserves a clear, evidence-based perspective.
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Why has loneliness been declared a global health crisis?
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How the global loneliness epidemic differs from the male loneliness epidemic
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Are men actually the lonelier gender?
- The role of patriarchy, the manosphere, scapegoating, and in-group/out-group psychology
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The consequences for both men and women
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Healthy, proactive approaches to tackling loneliness in society
Plus, so much more! Drop your thoughts below.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,
the podcast where we talk through some of the big
life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they
mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show.
(00:26):
Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Wherever you are in the world, it is so great
to have you here. Back for another episode as we,
of course break down the psychology of our twenties. Guys,
I'm nervous for today's episode. I really am, because I
think I am tackling my most controversial topic and my
most controversial episode yet, so much so that I actually
(00:54):
kind of went back and forth as to whether I
wanted to do this episode for a few months. Do
I talk about the male loneliness epidemic as a woman,
or do I just leave it? Do I just do
I give my opinion, do I dive into the research,
or do I let someone else kind of tackle that
dumpster fire. As of about a week ago, I had
(01:16):
kind of decided that this topic was one that I
wasn't going to discuss on the podcast. But then I
had a conversation with my friend Emily. We were in
the car and we were discussing this for I would
say literally over an hour, all the different angles, the
male friendship angle, the misogyny angle, the co ed school angle,
the historical angle, and just from a purely pure fascination
(01:42):
point of view, like I could not resist doing this topic.
I feel like my favorite episodes are the ones that
are making a personal mark in my own life. This
is one of those things. So today we're gonna do it.
We're gonna talk about the male loneliness epidemic, what it is,
the ways it is very much valid, and also what
(02:04):
it is not. Of course, whilst we do that, we're
going to break it down through the lens of psychology,
and we're going to use academic research, peer reviewed studies
as well as some anecdotal evidence as well to really
understand what is going on. I feel like this phenomena
is talked about so much online at the moment, but
(02:24):
often in a very opinionated manner, in a way that
can also quickly become very divisive. And trust me, I
myself have strong opinions about this, but I also think
we need a clearer kind of bird's eye view of
what's really going on societally I will also say, if
you equally have a strong opinion about this as I do,
(02:46):
please come into this episode with an open mind. Just
put your viewpoint aside for a second, and if you
come out still firmly believing what you initially believed, share
it below in a kind constructive way.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Below.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
This episode will probably not be the last time that
I talk about this, so I'm actually very happy to
have my mind changed to hear different perspectives, especially from
my male listeners. But without further ado, let's get into
the psychology of the male loneliness epidemic. So let me
(03:25):
start off by giving a bit of an overview of
what the male loneliness epidemic actually is and more importantly,
how it differs from the general loneliness epidemic that is
afflicting many, if not all people. Firstly, loneliness is not
something that we can quickly dismiss in any form. Loneliness
(03:47):
is brutal. Not feeling supported or seen or loved can
really strip a human being of their reason for being
and a sense of meaning in the world, a sense
of a sense that they matter, which we all need
at the end of the day. And this the sense
that we don't matter. The sense that we are not
supported is becoming more common than ever, to the point
(04:09):
that loneliness has been declared an international health emergency. There
have been serious health consequences linked back to the prolonged
experience of loneliness. There is one very infamous study that
concluded that loneliness may be as bad and as dangerous
for you as smoking a pack of cigarettes a day.
I think we often think about loneliness as something that
(04:34):
creeps up the older weekend. But the worrying thing about
the current state of loneliness is that it's impacting young
people more than older generations, with around forty seven percent
of people under the age of thirty five saying they
haven't made a new friend in the past twelve months
and thirty percent of them saying that they wouldn't know
(04:55):
how to. And since we typically thought that this younger
generation was perhaps more immune to it than older generations,
this is why, and this is what has people very,
very worried. So I talked about this in my book
in my chapter on loneliness. It's actually my favorite chapter
in my book. But the biggest factors contributing to this
(05:17):
are things like technology. A study from Harvard actually found
that seventy three percent of those surveyed felt that technology,
specifically social media, was contributing to a state of loneliness
for them. Specifically, it is promoting something that we call
social snacking, where because of social media and its successibility,
(05:39):
we get these kind of like bite sized interactions with people,
none of which are truly nourishing, but they like kind
of semi sustain us until we get to a point
where we realize that we are very nutrient deficient. We
are very deficient in terms of social connectedness and a
real sense of belonging. Another factor is actually being overworked,
(06:00):
being too busy, too tired, too high functioning to socialize.
People have more to do and a greater sense of
responsibility than ever. An individualistic society was something else that
was named by about fifty eight percent of people in
this same survey. Basically they said people are becoming more selfish,
(06:21):
they're becoming more self centered, they don't want to do
stuff for others, they don't want to be around others,
and that kind of links to the final and one
of the biggest factors that people cited, which was a
lack of community spaces, a lack of community environments, a
lack of community rituals that previous generations have had, things
like church, things like dancers, like fairs, like local shops
(06:44):
that you know, everyone went to, places and events where
people could connect, and the time to connect. All of
these things, plus many other factors that we are most
certainly going to get to, they are all contributing to
the general loneliness epidemic that I think each and every
one of us has felt. And it is very indicative
(07:04):
of how disconnected we are and how isolated so many
people feel. And this, like this is a serious problem,
This is a problem that very much claims lives. So
how exactly does the male loneliness epidemic that people keep
(07:24):
talking about, how does that differ from what it seems
everyone else is experiencing. Well, the claim of the male
loneliness epidemic is that men, specifically young men, are actually
more lonely than any other group, and that the reason
this is is because they are falling behind socially, which
(07:45):
I agree with, but specifically when it comes to dating.
The thing is attention on the male loneliness epidemic, to
begin with, was actually a really positive thing. It was
seeking to make men more aware of the fact that
they could reach out, that they would be welcomed, and
(08:05):
that they would be heard. It was trying to encourage
men to become more vulnerable by seeing that not being
vulnerable was a health issue. It was asking us to
rethink why men were socially conditioned to seek less support,
to see their mates less, to have less deep relationships,
all very important questions to raise. Nowadays, though, it has
(08:29):
transformed into something that is totally different from that conversation,
and honestly, what it has transformed into from what it
was initially intended to be means that the way the
male loneliness epidemic is talked about is a huge disappointment
for straight men in particular. The claim is that because
(08:49):
they are having less sex, because they are not dating
as much, because they aren't getting married, because they're getting rejected,
they are experiencing greater rates of loneliness as a result.
And the discussions around why this is the case is
because women, well, women won't give them a chance anymore,
(09:11):
women won't date them. Rejection is to blame. That is
what is causing this male loneliness epidemic. Separate from the
society or loneliness epidemic that we know we are experiencing.
And here is the thing, I really don't think that
this framing of male loneliness is correct. First off, and
(09:35):
you know what, people might get frustrated at me for
bringing this up, but I can only speak facts. The
rates of male loneliness are no greater or bigger than
the loneliness impacting every other group on Earth. I'm going
to break down exactly the research that proves this. And secondly,
I think loneliness is actually not the issue here. It
(09:57):
is a case whereby certain group to men are learning
that their actions, their attitudes, their behaviors have consequences and
not wanting to own up to that, so blaming their
unfavorable situation on someone else, blaming it on the women
who don't want to date them, who won't sleep with them,
rather than understanding that, amongst many other factors, they also
(10:19):
have a personal responsibility to be the kind of person
who others want to be around, who others want to
have a relationship with, who others feel respected by. The
male loneliness epidemic as it is currently painted right now,
I actually, I actually think is an accountability epidemic and
let me explain why I believe this in the most
(10:42):
evidence based, nicest way possible, Because I don't think anyone
deserves to be isolated. I don't think anyone deserves to
feel lonely. But I equally think that the attention the
male loneliness epidemic is getting actually takes away from really
addressing loneliness for men, for women, for any gender at
(11:03):
its root cause. So firstly, let's return to that first
kind of statement I made, which is that men are
actually not the loneliest gender. So there is evidence that
if we were to make it a competition, as people
who like to claim a male loneliness epidemic seem to
do by prefacing it with male, if we were to
(11:23):
make it a competition, women are actually experiencing loneliness at
a greater level than men. Here's some examples of the
evidence that has been gathered around this. One such example
is from Ailing Graham. She's an associate professor of social
sciences at Northwestern University. She analyzed nine longer tuneral studies
(11:46):
of loneliness and found that women are actually the ones
that report being lonelier than men. Now, self reporting is
actually one of the only ways that we can analyze lonely.
Loneliness is one of those weird, weird emotions where it's
actually very hard to objectively analyze. It is a completely
(12:07):
subjective feeling. You could have too friends and feel like
the most supported person in the world, or you could
have a million friends and feel like the loneliness loneliest
person in the world. So it has to basically be
measured through self reporting. And across these nine studies she
looked at, there were more than one hundred and twenty
eight thousand participants from over twenty countries between the ages
(12:28):
of thirteen to one hundred and three, so not a
small sample size, and women consistently were the lonely a gender.
Another twenty twenty four study looked at gender differences in
loneliness over a fifteen year time period, a long childrenal study,
again women were lonelier. And then a new Pew Research
Center survey from January this year looked at over six
(12:51):
thousand adults in the US and it found that, once
again compared with women, men did not report being any
more lonely than their counterparts. So that's three different sources,
three different sources that say, actually, if we were going
to make it a competition. Why is the word male
(13:11):
in front of this? And I could honestly tell you
countless others that say the same thing. So why aren't
we calling it a female loneliness epidemic? You know what?
I'm going to say it here. I actually don't think
we need to call it male or female. The point
I'm trying to make is that this shouldn't be a competition.
It actually doesn't matter. Prevalence to me, doesn't matter. It
(13:34):
is a societal issue. What I bring issue to is
the fact that we are trying to make it a competition,
and the fact that like this specific definition of loneliness
for men is the only one that seems to get
the attention. This kind of brings me to explaining why
this specific depiction of loneliness as a male issue, as
a young male issue, is perhaps not correct. I want
(13:58):
to say, if you're a man and you're listening to
this episode and you feel lonely, I totally feel your pain.
As a human being, socializelation is super hard. This is
not to invalidate your experiences. I just want to contextualize
this and say again that this is not a gendered
issue and it shouldn't be made to be. Let's really
quickly revisit what many people claim to be the causes
(14:22):
of the male lowniness epidemic these days. Not to sound like,
you know, like a broken record, but I just want
to make it super clear. The current explanation that I
am addressing is that men don't have girlfriends, men don't
have sex, women don't want to date men, and therefore
men don't have that same level of company that they
(14:44):
thought they would expect. This is what a lot of
people in the red pill male rights space is really
saying is causing this issue. Now, if people were to
focus on the fact that men aren't allowed to be
as vulnerable as women and that's what's causing the issue,
or if people wanted to focus on the fact that
men lack healthy male role models, or they wanted to
(15:06):
bring up the fact that male mental health, male eating disorders,
male substance abuse issues are on the rise and that's
the reason for loneliness, I would have absolutely no issue
in agreeing and completely supporting that statement. I would agree
with you entirely. This is a real problem. It's heartbreaking,
but that is not the discussion that we're having I
(15:27):
would totally agree with you. The society has failed many
men in the same ways and for the same reasons
that it has failed women and people of all genders,
by making us believe we have to fit into a pigeonhole,
by making men believe that they have to be strong
and tough and they can't whine and they have to
be brave. The patriarchy has failed men in this respect,
(15:48):
just as it has failed women in other respects in many,
many other ways as well. But that's not the focus.
The focus is on what a certain group of men
feel they should be entitled to which they are not,
which is women's bodies, women's autonomy, women's time, women's energy,
women's lives. I know this is of course a psychology podcast,
but let's do a bit of a history lesson here.
(16:08):
For a long, long time, women depended on men for
their existence, or maybe I should say, like for their
comfortable existence beyond just surviving. Mayor I remind you, like
couldn't get a credit card or a line of credit
until like nineteen eighty four in Australia. That means like
my grandmother, my mother, two people who are still very
(16:29):
much alive and kicking they weren't able to borrow money.
They had their wallets, and there was something in their wallet.
There's something in my wallet that they didn't have in
their wallet, like access to financial freedom. There was also
the case that, you know, women couldn't get a job
without their husband or father's permission. They were also socially
outcast if they weren't married at a certain age. Every
(16:53):
single part of their survival came down to marriage and
came down to partnership with the men. Even the most disrespectful,
horrible man could find someone who wanted to be with
him because he was her lifeline. He was her only
ticket in It's very simple economics around demand and supply. Right,
(17:16):
if the only way a woman can access a certain
type of lifestyle is to grab a man and hope
that he sticks or hope that he continues to love her,
the supply is going to keep meeting that demand, like
the demand is going to mean that more men are
being chosen, even if they perhaps probably didn't deserve to be.
This is known in psychology. It's known in sociology as
(17:38):
the patriarchal bargain, basically referring to the strategies and compromises
women needed to make for a greater level of security
and autonomy whilst still being under the control of men. Now,
as we know, women have worn themselves so many freedoms
over the years, and so our reliance on men has diminished,
and so that means that bargain is no longer in
(18:01):
men's favor. Now. If we don't need a man out
of necessity, we now get picky, as we should be,
as we totally should be. If you're going to choose
a live partner, you want someone who will make your
life better, especially when you've already achieved a lot yourself.
I look at my single friends and I'm like, they
have money, they have a life, they love, They're training
(18:23):
for marathons, they own their own homes, they volunteer, they
are well respected in their community. They are beautiful, they
are hot. And the kind of guy who doesn't even
respect you, or who thinks of you as only something
that could make him less lonely, or is only interested
in sex, he's just not going to cut it, like
(18:44):
the bar is too high for him. If my life
as a single woman is so amazing, why would I
want to be with someone who doesn't respect me? Why
would I want to be with someone who sees getting
your girlfriend or getting a wife, or getting a part
as something to tick off their to do list, and
I just happen to be there. It sounds harsh, but
(19:08):
I am sure there are certain men who feel the
same way about women. I saw this comment on Reddit
actually that there are certain men who will be like,
you know, girls only want a guy because of money.
Girls are so shallow, Girls like they just reject me,
you know, they their standards are too high. And then
you know, someone will say to them like, oh what
(19:29):
about Brenda. You know Brenda, she seems to really care
about you, and she's always there for you and she's amazing.
And then the guy will be like, well, she's too fat. No,
not her again. It's such a restricted approach to connection
that actually has deep roots in patriarchy, and yet some
people just don't want to acknowledge that and want to
make it a very singular, one dimensional issue. Women won't
(19:51):
date me, That's why I'm lonely. I actually read this
fascinating article about voluntary celibacy being on the rise amongst
straight women. A Psychology Today article I found said that
one in six women a voluntarily celibate, and a lot
of them say they've never been happier than ever. We've
gotten to a point where our sexuality doesn't have to
(20:14):
be a bargaining tool anymore. We can just exist as
a fully fulfilled solo woman and hopefully have a lot
of the freedoms that you know, our ancestors didn't have.
As more and more women, you know, feel that way,
certain types of men are going to become more and
more isolated, not because of a woman's discernment, but because
of their inability to adapt and grow and take personal responsibility. Okay,
(20:39):
we're going to take a short break here, but when
we return, let's dive into this even deeper as well
as some of the potential solutions stay with us. So
I think in the situation I was just describing the
explanation for male loneliness being that men aren't getting laid.
(21:02):
It's not alone in this issue. It's an entitlement issue.
I also think that it's rather sad that romantic intimacy
is one of the only forms of social connection and
contact that men are supposed to find fulfilling, and so
they prioritize seeking out someone they desire and who they
can win over, rather than focusing on healthy male friendship,
(21:23):
rather than focusing on being friends with women, on being
led by curiosity rather than desire. So when I was
researching this episode, I actually went deep diving into some
of the red pill male rights groups online and here
is a Reddit post that I came across that I
(21:45):
think captures this perfectly. This man, he was ranting about
why women don't like him, and this is the thing
he said that really caught my attention, and I think
gets to the crux of this issue. He said, I
talk to them with the intention of getting to know
them and be friendly, and then I'll show romantic interest,
(22:09):
and as soon as I do, I'm rejected. I have
a few female friends, but they treat me like a
little brother, and it's annoying that female friends won't recognize
me as a man just because they aren't sexually attracted
to me. This, to me, seems to be a huge
part of this issue. A certain type of individual like
(22:30):
this only being friendly to women so that he can
make a move on them, having female friends, but then
getting mad because they're not sexually attracted to him. It
just shows that somewhere in the back of his mind
he's always looking to date them, and he never sees
them as his equal in friendship, And so I feel
(22:51):
bad for this kind of person, Like you're completely cut
out from a whole other side of society, a whole
other group of people who are totally going to be
there for you platonic. But because you don't want something
platonic you have to make it romantic, you don't get
access to that. There is this somewhat over reliance I
think on female romantic partners to fulfill a man's every
(23:15):
social and emotional need, when as a human being you
need a network that is more broad than that. A
woman cannot be your only solution, but also you should
be able to provide that support back to your partner,
like they aren't just something to have so that you
feel less lonely. If you only want a girlfriend to
feel less lonely, or for unconditional love, get a dog.
(23:40):
Get a dog. Trust me, the pounds are full. You
will find what you are looking for there. Like women
are more complex than just something that you want to date.
This is the thing. I have such amazing male friends
who I genuinely love and admire, and I'm thinking about
them in my mind right now, and I'm just like, wow,
this are such great examples of masculinity because they for
(24:03):
many reasons, but because they see women as their equals,
sometimes even as they're superiors. They see women as people
they admire, that they want to be like and that
they don't just want to sleep with. And guess what
separate to that when they do pursue someone, they get dates,
they have partners who genuinely fulfill them. They're engaged, they're married.
(24:25):
They're not lonely because they have an attitude that makes
connecting with them possible because they are nice people. And again,
it's not just like that a man is he's lonely
because he's awful. There are a lot of men who
are lonely and the fact they can't find love is
a part of that, the same way that there are
(24:45):
a lot of women or non binary people who are
lonely because they really want a life partner but they aren't,
then blaming the person or people not picking them for
their entire circumstances and doing nothing to change it. Humans
have a natural desire for intimacy. I'm not saying that
you need to be okay with never finding love and
to get over it, and otherwise you deserve to be lonely. No,
(25:08):
it's in your DNA to want someone to love and
to love you. It's in our nature to have someone
and have a group of people who care about us.
But you're also not entitled to it from an individual
just because historically it was easier to come by for
someone in your circumstances. And you can't then turn around
and make it sound like not getting a date is
(25:29):
an epidemic and everyone's problem, because let's be real, there
are a ton of lonely single women out there who
have never dated someone, who have been rejected countless times,
and I can promise you they are not on four
Chan boards spewing violence and hate and saying that all
men are the problem. So what have the consequences of
(25:55):
the male loneliness epidemic been? And let me say again,
not the gen loneliness epidemic that includes men, but the
specifically marketed loneliness epidemic of men not getting dates. What
is the harm of this bin I think a big
consequence of the publicity this is getting is that certain
men are being pushed deeper and deeper into the manisphere,
(26:21):
whereby the loudest voices and people. The people with the
biggest platforms are fellow men who are jacked and they're
really handsome, and they claim to be rich, and they're
telling you that you're not the problem. They're painting women
as villains, either explicitly or implicitly, and that is not
(26:44):
the case. I genuinely feel like a deep level of
concern and worry for young men who end up in
these spaces, because I know what's waiting for them is
more loneliness. It becomes harder and harder to find someone,
harder to connect with others meaningfully, harder to realize that
(27:06):
this person does not have your best interests at heart.
By spewing this narrative to you, the further you're undoctrinated.
It also will ironically, logically further kill your chances of
finding love, because guess what, most women don't want to
be with someone who inherently blames her for his deep issues.
According to the United Nations Convoy on Women, the Manner sphere,
(27:30):
as we call it, is actually making misogyny more mainstream.
It's making it a more widely held belief system. And
here's the kicker. Individuals who feel a sense of social
isolation are more likely to fall victim to it. If
you want an even scarier statistic that doesn't scare you enough,
about two thirds of young men regularly engage or expose
(27:54):
to these kinds of influences online. An engagement with these
kinds of individuals is linked to greater levels of digital
abuse towards women. Again, these male influencers are great at
their jobs. Let's just call it as it is. They
are great at influencing, and they are also great at
providing an echo chamber without actually helping these men and
(28:19):
without actually improving their chances of being able to positively
engage with these people. I would be more on board
with these kind of male influencers if they actually talked
about mental health, if they actually said, hey, you're lonely,
let's create like a volunteer group. If they actually were like,
(28:41):
let's actually encourage you to set a goal for yourself,
and didn't always bring it back to so that you
can be more like a man and you can get women.
It's just an authentic and this is harmful for everyone.
It's harmful for men who are looking for a lifeline
and who could really benefit from some real like some
real mental health support and positive male role models. They
(29:05):
just end up getting more isolated and lonely. It's also
harmful for women. It's harmful for women who end up
being victims of this. Women are the villain idea, this
women of the villain rhetoric that further allows people to
dehumanize them. And I can say this right now, this
type of behavior, this pipeline from lonely man into digital
(29:31):
abuse against women. It's happened to me like I've seen
this firsthand. Out of video go viral last year, a
really innocent video about how I want to date a
man who is self aware. The top three comments on
that video were three separate men calling me fat, calling
me ugly, calling me stupid, calling me a slot, saying
(29:54):
they would never date me, all because I said I
would like a man who has been to therapy. Bear
in mind, I'm going to brag. I'm gonna brag for
a bit. I have a fantastic boyfriend. He's six ft five,
he's a lawyer, he loves his mother, he has wonderful
male friends who I actually talk to for this episode.
(30:15):
And yet the biggest insult they could think of when
they didn't agree with me was that they wouldn't date
me and that I was ugly according to them, And
then they wonder why they're lonely, and they wonder why
women don't want to date them, as if it is
some big mystery. And yet I still have sympathy for them,
(30:36):
because I know, like, I saw these comments and I
was like, oh God, I want to argue with you,
I want to get mad at you, and I just
look at them, I'm like, you are just the victim
of something so much bigger than you that you are
not even aware of. And I'm so sorry. So let's
talk a bit further about the consequences of this, not
for men, but for women. Let's go further into the
(30:56):
trenches of how women are bearing the brunt of this.
The biggest thing, one of the biggest consequences of this
is that actually women are facing an increased sense of
responsibility for men's mental health and for men's needs. Yet again,
yet again, it becomes a woman's problem. This happens in relationships.
(31:18):
It happens in friendships, it happens in szibling relationships. It
happens with housemates, it happens with co workers. To quote
the writer, Romicdermott. This gap in emotional caregiving in relationships
between men and women leaves men even more unhappy because
they don't develop individual emotional regulation skills, and it yet
again leaves women with more work giving more emotional care
(31:42):
than they receive, which then in turn breeds resentments and
makes relationships fail. Feminist scholars have often labeled this emotional labor,
but the researcher Ellie Anderson She's recently identified a more
nuanced definition for this, called hermanutic labor. Hermautic labor is
the demanding, often unrecognized tasks that women face of interpreting, articulating,
(32:06):
deciphering the feelings and intentions of others, and navigating the
resulting into personal tensions. Let me get this completely straight.
Men and women. Neither of them are naturally better at this.
Women have just been conditioned to be better at it,
and they have been conditioned to be better at it
(32:27):
because they have often been again painted as the caretakers
of others around them, including men, and that mental low
takes its toll, and again, it hurts both people. It
hurts all genders. It hurts women because suddenly they're responsible
for another human's emotions and other adults emotions, and they're
(32:51):
now bearing the brunt of, perhaps like loan of an
entire gender's loneliness, which they don't deserve to. And it
hurts men because they should be better equipped with the
emotional skills that they need to decipher their own emotions.
But because again we have taught women that that's their job,
we've also taught men that they don't need to learn
(33:12):
that skill, which is ridiculous. Everyone needs to learn that skill.
Let's also talk about violence against women. Just a bit
of a trigger warning that obviously this discussion might be
a little bit heavy for some people, but we just
can't not talk about it. Obviously. I'm honestly I should
have talked about it earlier. But violence against women is
(33:32):
my biggest point to make in this whole thing. I
will say again, I asked some of my male friends
their thoughts on the male loneliness epidemic because I just
wanted to know their perspectives as men. You know, I'm
a woman. I probably could never understand. I can never
understand what they're experiencing. But I have to quote one
of my friends. Shout out to Alex who messaged me
(33:57):
this When I asked, I was like, what do you
think about the male loneliness epidemic? He said, Let's be clear,
as much as loneliness is an issue for men, it
will never compare to the epidemic of violence against women.
Violence against women is on the rise, and it is
very clearly killing women. It is a clear aid to
(34:18):
b violence against women kills women. And it's not a
coincidence that as it's increased, so is the prevalence of
these mannosphere circles. So is the prevalence of terms like
male loneliness epidemic. Why is it that the male loneliness
epidemic similarly always seems to be trending, but the names
(34:39):
of women who lost their lives to domestic violence, to
intimate partner violence, to random male violence are not. And
here's the thing. I really think that the more men
are pushed into the space of thinking that the reason
they're lonely is because women don't respect them or won't
date them, the more we will see the numbers go up,
(35:00):
more violence will increase. It's very basic social psychology. Right.
When men experience loneliness, rejections, social disconnection, there's a strong
temptation encouraged by the manosphere circles to blame women as
the cause of their suffering. This has a word. It's
called scapegoating. Rather than confronting actual structural issues like gendered expectations,
(35:22):
economic shifts, limited male socialization, the responsibility is displaced onto women.
The psychological payoff is that it gives them a clear enemy.
It's a hold accountable, even if the actual causes are
much broader and more complex. Scapegoating it doesn't only reduce
feelings of helplessness, it also fuels hostility towards the targeted group,
(35:46):
which in this case translates into violence. Social identity theory
will also tell you and tell us that people derive
self worth from belonging to a group. So when men
perceive that they are excluded by women from dating or
from socializing, they may strengthen identification with an in group
of other disaffected men. Women then become the outgroup against
(36:08):
which all their grievances are projected. Once that division is drawn,
it's very easy for stereotypes to be amplified. Women are shallow,
women are manipulative, women are rejecting. Women only want me
for my money, whilst the men in the in group
are encouraged to see themselves as misunderstood victims. That us
(36:30):
versus them dynamic. That is just like the most fertile ground,
there is the hostility. Again, no one benefits from this,
and this is why let's scrap male loneliness epidemic. Let's
scrap female loneliness epidemic. Let's talk about this not as
a gendered issue but through a lens where this is
(36:51):
a collective problem that we need to address. We're going
to take a short break here, but when we return,
I want to talk about that specifically. What are some
of the solutions. Welcome back. Let's talk about some nuanced, healthy,
proactive ways to counteract loneliness so that we can really
(37:14):
get to the root cause of this issue before it
is allowed to be further distorted and divided and twisted.
Number one, if we're going to approach the loneliness epidemic,
we need to recognize it's going to sound counterintuitive, but
we need to recognize that being lonely is actually something
that we are all going to go through. It is universal,
It is difficult, but it is not someone else's fault
(37:36):
or responsibility. It is something that every single person is
going to experience. At some stage, again, I was talking
to my boyfriend about this, about the male loneliness epidemic,
and he asked me, do you think the reason people
are so worried about this is because they see loneliness
as like a curse rather than just as a human experience.
And I was like, WHOA, wow, I totally I have
(38:00):
to agree with you there. I think we have this
tendency to villainize loneliness, and obviously prolonged exposure to loneliness
is super harmful, but it is also a sign that
something is missing. To me, loneliness is like hunger, It
is like thirst, It is like tiredness. It is a
sign that you have a very basic social need or
(38:20):
a very basic human need that is not being met.
And if you were thirsty, if you were hungry, if
you were tired, You're not just going to sit there
and be like, well, I'm really really hungry and I'm
really really tired, and not then try and sleep, not,
then try and find something to eat, not then try
and find something to drink. Obviously, it's a lot more
(38:42):
complex than that, and I'll talk about some of the
strategies we can use to fulfill that loneliness whole. But
we need to treat it as a sign that something
is missing. And that's not a singular thing that's missing.
It's not a boyfriend, it's not a girlfriend. It is
a larger inadequacy or to fish and see in terms
of support. That is really what's happening here. And that
(39:04):
brings me to the second thing we need to address,
which is the real structural causes of loneliness beyond a
micro individual level. Blaming one person, even blaming a group
of people like it's never going to get you anywhere.
But if we want something or someone to blame, as
we often do, let's turn our direction to a common enemy.
(39:27):
How society has been set up by people long long
gone in a terrible way for which we are now
facing the consequences. Mainly, the common enemy is the patriarchy,
which hurts both men and women. It's division between genders.
It's stigma about mental health, it's stigma around vulnerability. It's
society's obsession with productivity so that none of us have
(39:48):
time or energy to connect with others anymore. It's the
loss of community through the commercialization of previously accessible spaces.
It's the fact that we don't have livable or affordable
cities where people can and actually see each other and
hang out and meet other people. Incidentally, anything else is
It's quite frankly, it's a red herring. It's distracting us
(40:09):
from the main issue. It's distracting us from the serious
factors that are at play. Again, I went looking into
some of those bread Peel Manisphere group chats and Reddit pages,
and you know what really disappointed me was how easily
distracted they are from what is really causing their loneliness,
(40:29):
or because of women rejected them, or or because of
women was involved. They will get so close to the
truth and then they will fall short. This is an
exact comment on a post titled a men's loneliness epidemic
is real and why we shouldn't say otherwise in a
Reddit group called Men's Rights quote. I saw a news
(40:49):
article about male loneliness epidemic, and all it talked about
was how it affected women. I dislocated my knee at
work and no one messaged me or contacted me to
see if I was doing okay or anything. But when
one of the women went on leave for a sawback,
they sent her a Get World card and some cash
end quote. Do you see what I'm talking about? This,
(41:13):
to me is a prime example of this poor guy
being mad at the woman who got the card and
not at the system that meant that you didn't feel
you could reach out, or the system that made it
seem that because you were a man, you could be
strong and they didn't have to help you. What if
instead of focusing on what women could or could not
(41:35):
do for men, why does a male versus female problem,
we focused on how this is a resource issue, a
time issue, a mental health issue, a system issue. If
someone brings up the male loneliness epidemic to you, I
think it's an invitation to instead steer them towards the
bigger picture by saying, you know, yeah, it's so awful
(41:57):
that men are made to feel so limited in their
emotional capabiit that being in a relationship is their only
cue loneliness that really does suck? Or say like, yes,
it is so hard that mental health and physical health
struggles are so stigmatized that people feel isolated, or bring
up the statistics that we talked about before, Men and
(42:18):
lone Men and women are equally lonely because we are
all lacking from opportunities to meaningfully connect. That's something we
really need to fix as a collective, don't we. And
whatever gender you are, if you see an issue with
loneliness in your life or in your community, become the
person that fixes that. Be the instigator. Make a run club,
(42:42):
invite people over for dinner at your house, become the host.
Join a book club or make a book club. Get
a foster dog and walk it in the park. The
amount of people you will meet and talk to is
mind blowing. Volunteer even if it's through work like. There
are so many other options here, And if you have
other suggestions of things that you've done, please like drop
(43:04):
them below. So the number the third thing, number three.
Third thing we need to do it is we need
to not engage with manisphere influences that make men feel
more isolated and instead promote healthy male role models. If
you see someone spouting just like plain nonsense, block them,
(43:26):
press uninterested, do not comment, do not like, do not argue,
do not engage, Stop giving these people oxygen and instead
make it a point to follow, engage, comment like reshare
content from healthy male role models. Here are some examples
of people who I think are just absolutely excellent. The
(43:49):
first one is Ned Brockman. He was an electrician who
ran across Australia in a couple of years ago, and
he raised two point six million dollars for homelessness. And
he continues to share super and inspiring stuff. Super healthy
male role model. I'd be so happy if my son's
turned out like him. Hank Green another great example. He
(44:11):
was just battling cancer and he continued to share his
journey throughout that, and he continues to like inform people
about science, about news. He's great. Dak Shepherd and his
podcast Armchair Expert. He also overcame a substance abuse problem.
He talks about that very openly. Doctor J Barnett incredible man.
I love his stuff. Tom Daly as well, love him
(44:33):
as well. Like I can keep going. I can list
all these amazing men who I think are great examples
of what it means to be a man who asks
for help, who is connected, who talks about struggle, who
also does really cool stuff. You know the show that
I think every man should be required to watch at school,
It's Ted Lasso. Like that show is one of the
(44:56):
most amazing things ever made, and it talks about male
loneliness about men's mental health and masculinity and divorce and breakups.
In like the most wonderful, positive way that is actually productive.
We need more of that number four. We need to
call out the men in our lives now. This is
specifically for other men. Silence is complicity, and one of
(45:20):
the most powerful ways to shift culture is not through
big articles, outrage, Instagram posts, even podcasts like this one.
We know it's through everyday accountability. When men hear their friends, brothers, colleagues,
strangers make sexist jokes, belittle women, dismiss conversations about violence,
(45:41):
or continue to spurt toxic myths about masculinity, those moments
were really critical. Too often they slide unchallenged because it's uncomfortable.
It's uncomfortable. I've had times where I haven't spoken of
about things I really should have, but that only silently
reinforces a belief system that is hurting your fellow men.
When another man steps in, whether it's like a simple
(46:04):
like that's not funny, or like another guy saying like
cut the shit, screw your head on, it cuts through
in a way that women, unfortunately often can't. Research in
social psychology shows that in group criticism when it comes
from someone who is inside your own group, it carries
more weight. A man challenging another man doesn't just interrupt
(46:26):
the harmful cycle, it redefines the norm within that group,
and it signals that, you know, respect and equality for women.
That's the standard, not the exception, not just something that
you perform when you're actually around women. Number five, and
I think this is the most crucial one. We need
(46:47):
to stop pretending that men and women can't be friends.
And I know if you're a woman, you're probably hearing
this and being like, oh, like, I know the feeling, right,
I know why you're probably rolling your eyes. You're like, yeah,
but I try to be friends with men and they
just want to date me. No, we need to make
this completely photonic from both sides. This is bringing me
(47:08):
back to an earlier point I made about the fact
that male loneliness. Yes, it is caused by men not
having male friends. It's also caused by the fact that
when they see a woman that's either someone they want
to date or they can dismiss, or maybe a family member,
and oh my gosh, do they miss out? They miss
(47:29):
out when they have that mindset, Imagine thinking that you
can only be friends with fifty percent of the people
in the world compared to one hundred percent of people.
You're already limiting yourself here, like you're already you're already
starting from a less favorable position when it comes to
tackling loneliness. You already have less options. I did a
full episode on this a while back titled Can men
(47:50):
and women Be Friends? And I think I know the
answer is yes, they very much can, and they very
much should be. I think this would go a long
way and also humanizing women for some of these men
who have unfortunately fallen into a bit of a male
centric echo chamber. Number six. We need to continue to
encourage people to talk about their mental health and to
(48:12):
reduce stigma around to saying I'm super lonely, I'm super sad,
I'm having a rough time. As I kind of finish
up this episode, I want to reiterate, loneliness sucks, whoever
you are. The stigma we face around mental health is
actively hurting people and shaming them into becoming further isolated
and silent, not getting the support that is available to them,
(48:35):
not being open, and let's be real, it really really
hurts people. I also think a rising tide lifts all ships.
It's not a gender thing. We need to start having
conversations openly about mental health, and we need to start
by doing it ourselves. Be brave enough to just answer
(48:57):
the question how are you doing? With honesty because it
has a chain reaction. It invites people to share. For
my male listeners, even if it's just the men and
your family, your cousins, your dad, your grandfather, your brothers,
share with them, ask them how they are.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Check in.
Speaker 2 (49:15):
It might feel awkward, it might feel hard. I actually
think sometimes the best things feel uncomfortable at first, because
that discomfort is a sign that something needs to happen
and something needs to change. Alrighty, as we wrap this
episode up, I want to thank you again for coming
into this episode with an open mind. And if you're
(49:39):
going to comment somebody down below, please keep it civilized.
I will like, I don't want to see anyone being nasty.
I don't want to see anyone being mean. I definitely
don't want to see anyone calling me fat as has
happened in the past, or anyone calling anyone anything rude.
To keep it civil, but I do want to see
the conversation keep going down there, because there's definitely things
(50:01):
I've missed. There's definitely perspectives that I just haven't thought of.
So if you have a perspective or an opinion, please
please share it below. I'd love to hear from you,
and I hope that this episode has eliminated some things
for you. Share it with a friend if it has,
share it with your guy friends, your female friends, your
friends of all genders, your old friends, your new friends,
(50:22):
whoever it is, and see what their thoughts are as well.
Make sure as well that you are following us on
Instagram at that Psychology Podcast if you want to learn
more about this topic and also see more of what
we're doing on the Psychology of your twenties. I also
want to thank our researcher Libby Colbert for her contributions
to this episode and for pushing me to do this
(50:44):
episode and really really appreciate her. We wouldn't be able
to do it without her. And make sure that you're
following along wherever you're listening Spotify, Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app.
Give us a five star review if you feel called
to do so. This won't be the last time we
talk about this, so I can't wait to keep the
conversation going. But until next time, until our next episode,
(51:04):
stay safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself, take care
of yourself as well, talk about your mental health as well.
That's my final, my final reminder, and we will talk
very very soon,
Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,
the podcast where we talk through some of the big
life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they
mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show.
(00:26):
Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Wherever you are in the world, it is so great
to have you here. Back for another episode as we,
of course break down the psychology of our twenties. Guys,
I'm nervous for today's episode. I really am, because I
think I am tackling my most controversial topic and my
most controversial episode yet, so much so that I actually
(00:54):
kind of went back and forth as to whether I
wanted to do this episode for a few months. Do
I talk about the male loneliness epidemic as a woman,
or do I just leave it? Do I just do
I give my opinion, do I dive into the research,
or do I let someone else kind of tackle that
dumpster fire. As of about a week ago, I had
(01:16):
kind of decided that this topic was one that I
wasn't going to discuss on the podcast. But then I
had a conversation with my friend Emily. We were in
the car and we were discussing this for I would
say literally over an hour, all the different angles, the
male friendship angle, the misogyny angle, the co ed school angle,
the historical angle, and just from a purely pure fascination
(01:42):
point of view, like I could not resist doing this topic.
I feel like my favorite episodes are the ones that
are making a personal mark in my own life. This
is one of those things. So today we're gonna do it.
We're gonna talk about the male loneliness epidemic, what it is,
the ways it is very much valid, and also what
(02:04):
it is not. Of course, whilst we do that, we're
going to break it down through the lens of psychology,
and we're going to use academic research, peer reviewed studies
as well as some anecdotal evidence as well to really
understand what is going on. I feel like this phenomena
is talked about so much online at the moment, but
(02:24):
often in a very opinionated manner, in a way that
can also quickly become very divisive. And trust me, I
myself have strong opinions about this, but I also think
we need a clearer kind of bird's eye view of
what's really going on societally I will also say, if
you equally have a strong opinion about this as I do,
(02:46):
please come into this episode with an open mind. Just
put your viewpoint aside for a second, and if you
come out still firmly believing what you initially believed, share
it below in a kind constructive way.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Below.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
This episode will probably not be the last time that
I talk about this, so I'm actually very happy to
have my mind changed to hear different perspectives, especially from
my male listeners. But without further ado, let's get into
the psychology of the male loneliness epidemic. So let me
(03:25):
start off by giving a bit of an overview of
what the male loneliness epidemic actually is and more importantly,
how it differs from the general loneliness epidemic that is
afflicting many, if not all people. Firstly, loneliness is not
something that we can quickly dismiss in any form. Loneliness
(03:47):
is brutal. Not feeling supported or seen or loved can
really strip a human being of their reason for being
and a sense of meaning in the world, a sense
of a sense that they matter, which we all need
at the end of the day. And this the sense
that we don't matter. The sense that we are not
supported is becoming more common than ever, to the point
(04:09):
that loneliness has been declared an international health emergency. There
have been serious health consequences linked back to the prolonged
experience of loneliness. There is one very infamous study that
concluded that loneliness may be as bad and as dangerous
for you as smoking a pack of cigarettes a day.
I think we often think about loneliness as something that
(04:34):
creeps up the older weekend. But the worrying thing about
the current state of loneliness is that it's impacting young
people more than older generations, with around forty seven percent
of people under the age of thirty five saying they
haven't made a new friend in the past twelve months
and thirty percent of them saying that they wouldn't know
(04:55):
how to. And since we typically thought that this younger
generation was perhaps more immune to it than older generations,
this is why, and this is what has people very,
very worried. So I talked about this in my book
in my chapter on loneliness. It's actually my favorite chapter
in my book. But the biggest factors contributing to this
(05:17):
are things like technology. A study from Harvard actually found
that seventy three percent of those surveyed felt that technology,
specifically social media, was contributing to a state of loneliness
for them. Specifically, it is promoting something that we call
social snacking, where because of social media and its successibility,
(05:39):
we get these kind of like bite sized interactions with people,
none of which are truly nourishing, but they like kind
of semi sustain us until we get to a point
where we realize that we are very nutrient deficient. We
are very deficient in terms of social connectedness and a
real sense of belonging. Another factor is actually being overworked,
(06:00):
being too busy, too tired, too high functioning to socialize.
People have more to do and a greater sense of
responsibility than ever. An individualistic society was something else that
was named by about fifty eight percent of people in
this same survey. Basically they said people are becoming more selfish,
(06:21):
they're becoming more self centered, they don't want to do
stuff for others, they don't want to be around others,
and that kind of links to the final and one
of the biggest factors that people cited, which was a
lack of community spaces, a lack of community environments, a
lack of community rituals that previous generations have had, things
like church, things like dancers, like fairs, like local shops
(06:44):
that you know, everyone went to, places and events where
people could connect, and the time to connect. All of
these things, plus many other factors that we are most
certainly going to get to, they are all contributing to
the general loneliness epidemic that I think each and every
one of us has felt. And it is very indicative
(07:04):
of how disconnected we are and how isolated so many
people feel. And this, like this is a serious problem,
This is a problem that very much claims lives. So
how exactly does the male loneliness epidemic that people keep
(07:24):
talking about, how does that differ from what it seems
everyone else is experiencing. Well, the claim of the male
loneliness epidemic is that men, specifically young men, are actually
more lonely than any other group, and that the reason
this is is because they are falling behind socially, which
(07:45):
I agree with, but specifically when it comes to dating.
The thing is attention on the male loneliness epidemic, to
begin with, was actually a really positive thing. It was
seeking to make men more aware of the fact that
they could reach out, that they would be welcomed, and
(08:05):
that they would be heard. It was trying to encourage
men to become more vulnerable by seeing that not being
vulnerable was a health issue. It was asking us to
rethink why men were socially conditioned to seek less support,
to see their mates less, to have less deep relationships,
all very important questions to raise. Nowadays, though, it has
(08:29):
transformed into something that is totally different from that conversation,
and honestly, what it has transformed into from what it
was initially intended to be means that the way the
male loneliness epidemic is talked about is a huge disappointment
for straight men in particular. The claim is that because
(08:49):
they are having less sex, because they are not dating
as much, because they aren't getting married, because they're getting rejected,
they are experiencing greater rates of loneliness as a result.
And the discussions around why this is the case is
because women, well, women won't give them a chance anymore,
(09:11):
women won't date them. Rejection is to blame. That is
what is causing this male loneliness epidemic. Separate from the
society or loneliness epidemic that we know we are experiencing.
And here is the thing, I really don't think that
this framing of male loneliness is correct. First off, and
(09:35):
you know what, people might get frustrated at me for
bringing this up, but I can only speak facts. The
rates of male loneliness are no greater or bigger than
the loneliness impacting every other group on Earth. I'm going
to break down exactly the research that proves this. And secondly,
I think loneliness is actually not the issue here. It
(09:57):
is a case whereby certain group to men are learning
that their actions, their attitudes, their behaviors have consequences and
not wanting to own up to that, so blaming their
unfavorable situation on someone else, blaming it on the women
who don't want to date them, who won't sleep with them,
rather than understanding that, amongst many other factors, they also
(10:19):
have a personal responsibility to be the kind of person
who others want to be around, who others want to
have a relationship with, who others feel respected by. The
male loneliness epidemic as it is currently painted right now,
I actually, I actually think is an accountability epidemic and
let me explain why I believe this in the most
(10:42):
evidence based, nicest way possible, Because I don't think anyone
deserves to be isolated. I don't think anyone deserves to
feel lonely. But I equally think that the attention the
male loneliness epidemic is getting actually takes away from really
addressing loneliness for men, for women, for any gender at
(11:03):
its root cause. So firstly, let's return to that first
kind of statement I made, which is that men are
actually not the loneliest gender. So there is evidence that
if we were to make it a competition, as people
who like to claim a male loneliness epidemic seem to
do by prefacing it with male, if we were to
(11:23):
make it a competition, women are actually experiencing loneliness at
a greater level than men. Here's some examples of the
evidence that has been gathered around this. One such example
is from Ailing Graham. She's an associate professor of social
sciences at Northwestern University. She analyzed nine longer tuneral studies
(11:46):
of loneliness and found that women are actually the ones
that report being lonelier than men. Now, self reporting is
actually one of the only ways that we can analyze lonely.
Loneliness is one of those weird, weird emotions where it's
actually very hard to objectively analyze. It is a completely
(12:07):
subjective feeling. You could have too friends and feel like
the most supported person in the world, or you could
have a million friends and feel like the loneliness loneliest
person in the world. So it has to basically be
measured through self reporting. And across these nine studies she
looked at, there were more than one hundred and twenty
eight thousand participants from over twenty countries between the ages
(12:28):
of thirteen to one hundred and three, so not a
small sample size, and women consistently were the lonely a gender.
Another twenty twenty four study looked at gender differences in
loneliness over a fifteen year time period, a long childrenal study,
again women were lonelier. And then a new Pew Research
Center survey from January this year looked at over six
(12:51):
thousand adults in the US and it found that, once
again compared with women, men did not report being any
more lonely than their counterparts. So that's three different sources,
three different sources that say, actually, if we were going
to make it a competition. Why is the word male
(13:11):
in front of this? And I could honestly tell you
countless others that say the same thing. So why aren't
we calling it a female loneliness epidemic? You know what?
I'm going to say it here. I actually don't think
we need to call it male or female. The point
I'm trying to make is that this shouldn't be a competition.
It actually doesn't matter. Prevalence to me, doesn't matter. It
(13:34):
is a societal issue. What I bring issue to is
the fact that we are trying to make it a competition,
and the fact that like this specific definition of loneliness
for men is the only one that seems to get
the attention. This kind of brings me to explaining why
this specific depiction of loneliness as a male issue, as
a young male issue, is perhaps not correct. I want
(13:58):
to say, if you're a man and you're listening to
this episode and you feel lonely, I totally feel your pain.
As a human being, socializelation is super hard. This is
not to invalidate your experiences. I just want to contextualize
this and say again that this is not a gendered
issue and it shouldn't be made to be. Let's really
quickly revisit what many people claim to be the causes
(14:22):
of the male lowniness epidemic these days. Not to sound like,
you know, like a broken record, but I just want
to make it super clear. The current explanation that I
am addressing is that men don't have girlfriends, men don't
have sex, women don't want to date men, and therefore
men don't have that same level of company that they
(14:44):
thought they would expect. This is what a lot of
people in the red pill male rights space is really
saying is causing this issue. Now, if people were to
focus on the fact that men aren't allowed to be
as vulnerable as women and that's what's causing the issue,
or if people wanted to focus on the fact that
men lack healthy male role models, or they wanted to
(15:06):
bring up the fact that male mental health, male eating disorders,
male substance abuse issues are on the rise and that's
the reason for loneliness, I would have absolutely no issue
in agreeing and completely supporting that statement. I would agree
with you entirely. This is a real problem. It's heartbreaking,
but that is not the discussion that we're having I
(15:27):
would totally agree with you. The society has failed many
men in the same ways and for the same reasons
that it has failed women and people of all genders,
by making us believe we have to fit into a pigeonhole,
by making men believe that they have to be strong
and tough and they can't whine and they have to
be brave. The patriarchy has failed men in this respect,
(15:48):
just as it has failed women in other respects in many,
many other ways as well. But that's not the focus.
The focus is on what a certain group of men
feel they should be entitled to which they are not,
which is women's bodies, women's autonomy, women's time, women's energy,
women's lives. I know this is of course a psychology podcast,
but let's do a bit of a history lesson here.
(16:08):
For a long, long time, women depended on men for
their existence, or maybe I should say, like for their
comfortable existence beyond just surviving. Mayor I remind you, like
couldn't get a credit card or a line of credit
until like nineteen eighty four in Australia. That means like
my grandmother, my mother, two people who are still very
(16:29):
much alive and kicking they weren't able to borrow money.
They had their wallets, and there was something in their wallet.
There's something in my wallet that they didn't have in
their wallet, like access to financial freedom. There was also
the case that, you know, women couldn't get a job
without their husband or father's permission. They were also socially
outcast if they weren't married at a certain age. Every
(16:53):
single part of their survival came down to marriage and
came down to partnership with the men. Even the most disrespectful,
horrible man could find someone who wanted to be with
him because he was her lifeline. He was her only
ticket in It's very simple economics around demand and supply. Right,
(17:16):
if the only way a woman can access a certain
type of lifestyle is to grab a man and hope
that he sticks or hope that he continues to love her,
the supply is going to keep meeting that demand, like
the demand is going to mean that more men are
being chosen, even if they perhaps probably didn't deserve to be.
This is known in psychology. It's known in sociology as
(17:38):
the patriarchal bargain, basically referring to the strategies and compromises
women needed to make for a greater level of security
and autonomy whilst still being under the control of men. Now,
as we know, women have worn themselves so many freedoms
over the years, and so our reliance on men has diminished,
and so that means that bargain is no longer in
(18:01):
men's favor. Now. If we don't need a man out
of necessity, we now get picky, as we should be,
as we totally should be. If you're going to choose
a live partner, you want someone who will make your
life better, especially when you've already achieved a lot yourself.
I look at my single friends and I'm like, they
have money, they have a life, they love, They're training
(18:23):
for marathons, they own their own homes, they volunteer, they
are well respected in their community. They are beautiful, they
are hot. And the kind of guy who doesn't even
respect you, or who thinks of you as only something
that could make him less lonely, or is only interested
in sex, he's just not going to cut it, like
(18:44):
the bar is too high for him. If my life
as a single woman is so amazing, why would I
want to be with someone who doesn't respect me? Why
would I want to be with someone who sees getting
your girlfriend or getting a wife, or getting a part
as something to tick off their to do list, and
I just happen to be there. It sounds harsh, but
(19:08):
I am sure there are certain men who feel the
same way about women. I saw this comment on Reddit
actually that there are certain men who will be like,
you know, girls only want a guy because of money.
Girls are so shallow, Girls like they just reject me,
you know, they their standards are too high. And then
you know, someone will say to them like, oh what
(19:29):
about Brenda. You know Brenda, she seems to really care
about you, and she's always there for you and she's amazing.
And then the guy will be like, well, she's too fat. No,
not her again. It's such a restricted approach to connection
that actually has deep roots in patriarchy, and yet some
people just don't want to acknowledge that and want to
make it a very singular, one dimensional issue. Women won't
(19:51):
date me, That's why I'm lonely. I actually read this
fascinating article about voluntary celibacy being on the rise amongst
straight women. A Psychology Today article I found said that
one in six women a voluntarily celibate, and a lot
of them say they've never been happier than ever. We've
gotten to a point where our sexuality doesn't have to
(20:14):
be a bargaining tool anymore. We can just exist as
a fully fulfilled solo woman and hopefully have a lot
of the freedoms that you know, our ancestors didn't have.
As more and more women, you know, feel that way,
certain types of men are going to become more and
more isolated, not because of a woman's discernment, but because
of their inability to adapt and grow and take personal responsibility. Okay,
(20:39):
we're going to take a short break here, but when
we return, let's dive into this even deeper as well
as some of the potential solutions stay with us. So
I think in the situation I was just describing the
explanation for male loneliness being that men aren't getting laid.
(21:02):
It's not alone in this issue. It's an entitlement issue.
I also think that it's rather sad that romantic intimacy
is one of the only forms of social connection and
contact that men are supposed to find fulfilling, and so
they prioritize seeking out someone they desire and who they
can win over, rather than focusing on healthy male friendship,
(21:23):
rather than focusing on being friends with women, on being
led by curiosity rather than desire. So when I was
researching this episode, I actually went deep diving into some
of the red pill male rights groups online and here
is a Reddit post that I came across that I
(21:45):
think captures this perfectly. This man, he was ranting about
why women don't like him, and this is the thing
he said that really caught my attention, and I think
gets to the crux of this issue. He said, I
talk to them with the intention of getting to know
them and be friendly, and then I'll show romantic interest,
(22:09):
and as soon as I do, I'm rejected. I have
a few female friends, but they treat me like a
little brother, and it's annoying that female friends won't recognize
me as a man just because they aren't sexually attracted
to me. This, to me, seems to be a huge
part of this issue. A certain type of individual like
(22:30):
this only being friendly to women so that he can
make a move on them, having female friends, but then
getting mad because they're not sexually attracted to him. It
just shows that somewhere in the back of his mind
he's always looking to date them, and he never sees
them as his equal in friendship, And so I feel
(22:51):
bad for this kind of person, Like you're completely cut
out from a whole other side of society, a whole
other group of people who are totally going to be
there for you platonic. But because you don't want something
platonic you have to make it romantic, you don't get
access to that. There is this somewhat over reliance I
think on female romantic partners to fulfill a man's every
(23:15):
social and emotional need, when as a human being you
need a network that is more broad than that. A
woman cannot be your only solution, but also you should
be able to provide that support back to your partner,
like they aren't just something to have so that you
feel less lonely. If you only want a girlfriend to
feel less lonely, or for unconditional love, get a dog.
(23:40):
Get a dog. Trust me, the pounds are full. You
will find what you are looking for there. Like women
are more complex than just something that you want to date.
This is the thing. I have such amazing male friends
who I genuinely love and admire, and I'm thinking about
them in my mind right now, and I'm just like, wow,
this are such great examples of masculinity because they for
(24:03):
many reasons, but because they see women as their equals,
sometimes even as they're superiors. They see women as people
they admire, that they want to be like and that
they don't just want to sleep with. And guess what
separate to that when they do pursue someone, they get dates,
they have partners who genuinely fulfill them. They're engaged, they're married.
(24:25):
They're not lonely because they have an attitude that makes
connecting with them possible because they are nice people. And again,
it's not just like that a man is he's lonely
because he's awful. There are a lot of men who
are lonely and the fact they can't find love is
a part of that, the same way that there are
(24:45):
a lot of women or non binary people who are
lonely because they really want a life partner but they aren't,
then blaming the person or people not picking them for
their entire circumstances and doing nothing to change it. Humans
have a natural desire for intimacy. I'm not saying that
you need to be okay with never finding love and
to get over it, and otherwise you deserve to be lonely. No,
(25:08):
it's in your DNA to want someone to love and
to love you. It's in our nature to have someone
and have a group of people who care about us.
But you're also not entitled to it from an individual
just because historically it was easier to come by for
someone in your circumstances. And you can't then turn around
and make it sound like not getting a date is
(25:29):
an epidemic and everyone's problem, because let's be real, there
are a ton of lonely single women out there who
have never dated someone, who have been rejected countless times,
and I can promise you they are not on four
Chan boards spewing violence and hate and saying that all
men are the problem. So what have the consequences of
(25:55):
the male loneliness epidemic been? And let me say again,
not the gen loneliness epidemic that includes men, but the
specifically marketed loneliness epidemic of men not getting dates. What
is the harm of this bin I think a big
consequence of the publicity this is getting is that certain
men are being pushed deeper and deeper into the manisphere,
(26:21):
whereby the loudest voices and people. The people with the
biggest platforms are fellow men who are jacked and they're
really handsome, and they claim to be rich, and they're
telling you that you're not the problem. They're painting women
as villains, either explicitly or implicitly, and that is not
(26:44):
the case. I genuinely feel like a deep level of
concern and worry for young men who end up in
these spaces, because I know what's waiting for them is
more loneliness. It becomes harder and harder to find someone,
harder to connect with others meaningfully, harder to realize that
(27:06):
this person does not have your best interests at heart.
By spewing this narrative to you, the further you're undoctrinated.
It also will ironically, logically further kill your chances of
finding love, because guess what, most women don't want to
be with someone who inherently blames her for his deep issues.
According to the United Nations Convoy on Women, the Manner sphere,
(27:30):
as we call it, is actually making misogyny more mainstream.
It's making it a more widely held belief system. And
here's the kicker. Individuals who feel a sense of social
isolation are more likely to fall victim to it. If
you want an even scarier statistic that doesn't scare you enough,
about two thirds of young men regularly engage or expose
(27:54):
to these kinds of influences online. An engagement with these
kinds of individuals is linked to greater levels of digital
abuse towards women. Again, these male influencers are great at
their jobs. Let's just call it as it is. They
are great at influencing, and they are also great at
providing an echo chamber without actually helping these men and
(28:19):
without actually improving their chances of being able to positively
engage with these people. I would be more on board
with these kind of male influencers if they actually talked
about mental health, if they actually said, hey, you're lonely,
let's create like a volunteer group. If they actually were like,
(28:41):
let's actually encourage you to set a goal for yourself,
and didn't always bring it back to so that you
can be more like a man and you can get women.
It's just an authentic and this is harmful for everyone.
It's harmful for men who are looking for a lifeline
and who could really benefit from some real like some
real mental health support and positive male role models. They
(29:05):
just end up getting more isolated and lonely. It's also
harmful for women. It's harmful for women who end up
being victims of this. Women are the villain idea, this
women of the villain rhetoric that further allows people to
dehumanize them. And I can say this right now, this
type of behavior, this pipeline from lonely man into digital
(29:31):
abuse against women. It's happened to me like I've seen
this firsthand. Out of video go viral last year, a
really innocent video about how I want to date a
man who is self aware. The top three comments on
that video were three separate men calling me fat, calling
me ugly, calling me stupid, calling me a slot, saying
(29:54):
they would never date me, all because I said I
would like a man who has been to therapy. Bear
in mind, I'm going to brag. I'm gonna brag for
a bit. I have a fantastic boyfriend. He's six ft five,
he's a lawyer, he loves his mother, he has wonderful
male friends who I actually talk to for this episode.
(30:15):
And yet the biggest insult they could think of when
they didn't agree with me was that they wouldn't date
me and that I was ugly according to them, And
then they wonder why they're lonely, and they wonder why
women don't want to date them, as if it is
some big mystery. And yet I still have sympathy for them,
(30:36):
because I know, like, I saw these comments and I
was like, oh God, I want to argue with you,
I want to get mad at you, and I just
look at them, I'm like, you are just the victim
of something so much bigger than you that you are
not even aware of. And I'm so sorry. So let's
talk a bit further about the consequences of this, not
for men, but for women. Let's go further into the
(30:56):
trenches of how women are bearing the brunt of this.
The biggest thing, one of the biggest consequences of this
is that actually women are facing an increased sense of
responsibility for men's mental health and for men's needs. Yet again,
yet again, it becomes a woman's problem. This happens in relationships.
(31:18):
It happens in friendships, it happens in szibling relationships. It
happens with housemates, it happens with co workers. To quote
the writer, Romicdermott. This gap in emotional caregiving in relationships
between men and women leaves men even more unhappy because
they don't develop individual emotional regulation skills, and it yet
again leaves women with more work giving more emotional care
(31:42):
than they receive, which then in turn breeds resentments and
makes relationships fail. Feminist scholars have often labeled this emotional labor,
but the researcher Ellie Anderson She's recently identified a more
nuanced definition for this, called hermanutic labor. Hermautic labor is
the demanding, often unrecognized tasks that women face of interpreting, articulating,
(32:06):
deciphering the feelings and intentions of others, and navigating the
resulting into personal tensions. Let me get this completely straight.
Men and women. Neither of them are naturally better at this.
Women have just been conditioned to be better at it,
and they have been conditioned to be better at it
(32:27):
because they have often been again painted as the caretakers
of others around them, including men, and that mental low
takes its toll, and again, it hurts both people. It
hurts all genders. It hurts women because suddenly they're responsible
for another human's emotions and other adults emotions, and they're
(32:51):
now bearing the brunt of, perhaps like loan of an
entire gender's loneliness, which they don't deserve to. And it
hurts men because they should be better equipped with the
emotional skills that they need to decipher their own emotions.
But because again we have taught women that that's their job,
we've also taught men that they don't need to learn
(33:12):
that skill, which is ridiculous. Everyone needs to learn that skill.
Let's also talk about violence against women. Just a bit
of a trigger warning that obviously this discussion might be
a little bit heavy for some people, but we just
can't not talk about it. Obviously. I'm honestly I should
have talked about it earlier. But violence against women is
(33:32):
my biggest point to make in this whole thing. I
will say again, I asked some of my male friends
their thoughts on the male loneliness epidemic because I just
wanted to know their perspectives as men. You know, I'm
a woman. I probably could never understand. I can never
understand what they're experiencing. But I have to quote one
of my friends. Shout out to Alex who messaged me
(33:57):
this When I asked, I was like, what do you
think about the male loneliness epidemic? He said, Let's be clear,
as much as loneliness is an issue for men, it
will never compare to the epidemic of violence against women.
Violence against women is on the rise, and it is
very clearly killing women. It is a clear aid to
(34:18):
b violence against women kills women. And it's not a
coincidence that as it's increased, so is the prevalence of
these mannosphere circles. So is the prevalence of terms like
male loneliness epidemic. Why is it that the male loneliness
epidemic similarly always seems to be trending, but the names
(34:39):
of women who lost their lives to domestic violence, to
intimate partner violence, to random male violence are not. And
here's the thing. I really think that the more men
are pushed into the space of thinking that the reason
they're lonely is because women don't respect them or won't
date them, the more we will see the numbers go up,
(35:00):
more violence will increase. It's very basic social psychology. Right.
When men experience loneliness, rejections, social disconnection, there's a strong
temptation encouraged by the manosphere circles to blame women as
the cause of their suffering. This has a word. It's
called scapegoating. Rather than confronting actual structural issues like gendered expectations,
(35:22):
economic shifts, limited male socialization, the responsibility is displaced onto women.
The psychological payoff is that it gives them a clear enemy.
It's a hold accountable, even if the actual causes are
much broader and more complex. Scapegoating it doesn't only reduce
feelings of helplessness, it also fuels hostility towards the targeted group,
(35:46):
which in this case translates into violence. Social identity theory
will also tell you and tell us that people derive
self worth from belonging to a group. So when men
perceive that they are excluded by women from dating or
from socializing, they may strengthen identification with an in group
of other disaffected men. Women then become the outgroup against
(36:08):
which all their grievances are projected. Once that division is drawn,
it's very easy for stereotypes to be amplified. Women are shallow,
women are manipulative, women are rejecting. Women only want me
for my money, whilst the men in the in group
are encouraged to see themselves as misunderstood victims. That us
(36:30):
versus them dynamic. That is just like the most fertile ground,
there is the hostility. Again, no one benefits from this,
and this is why let's scrap male loneliness epidemic. Let's
scrap female loneliness epidemic. Let's talk about this not as
a gendered issue but through a lens where this is
(36:51):
a collective problem that we need to address. We're going
to take a short break here, but when we return,
I want to talk about that specifically. What are some
of the solutions. Welcome back. Let's talk about some nuanced, healthy,
proactive ways to counteract loneliness so that we can really
(37:14):
get to the root cause of this issue before it
is allowed to be further distorted and divided and twisted.
Number one, if we're going to approach the loneliness epidemic,
we need to recognize it's going to sound counterintuitive, but
we need to recognize that being lonely is actually something
that we are all going to go through. It is universal,
It is difficult, but it is not someone else's fault
(37:36):
or responsibility. It is something that every single person is
going to experience. At some stage, again, I was talking
to my boyfriend about this, about the male loneliness epidemic,
and he asked me, do you think the reason people
are so worried about this is because they see loneliness
as like a curse rather than just as a human experience.
And I was like, WHOA, wow, I totally I have
(38:00):
to agree with you there. I think we have this
tendency to villainize loneliness, and obviously prolonged exposure to loneliness
is super harmful, but it is also a sign that
something is missing. To me, loneliness is like hunger, It
is like thirst, It is like tiredness. It is a
sign that you have a very basic social need or
(38:20):
a very basic human need that is not being met.
And if you were thirsty, if you were hungry, if
you were tired, You're not just going to sit there
and be like, well, I'm really really hungry and I'm
really really tired, and not then try and sleep, not,
then try and find something to eat, not then try
and find something to drink. Obviously, it's a lot more
(38:42):
complex than that, and I'll talk about some of the
strategies we can use to fulfill that loneliness whole. But
we need to treat it as a sign that something
is missing. And that's not a singular thing that's missing.
It's not a boyfriend, it's not a girlfriend. It is
a larger inadequacy or to fish and see in terms
of support. That is really what's happening here. And that
(39:04):
brings me to the second thing we need to address,
which is the real structural causes of loneliness beyond a
micro individual level. Blaming one person, even blaming a group
of people like it's never going to get you anywhere.
But if we want something or someone to blame, as
we often do, let's turn our direction to a common enemy.
(39:27):
How society has been set up by people long long
gone in a terrible way for which we are now
facing the consequences. Mainly, the common enemy is the patriarchy,
which hurts both men and women. It's division between genders.
It's stigma about mental health, it's stigma around vulnerability. It's
society's obsession with productivity so that none of us have
(39:48):
time or energy to connect with others anymore. It's the
loss of community through the commercialization of previously accessible spaces.
It's the fact that we don't have livable or affordable
cities where people can and actually see each other and
hang out and meet other people. Incidentally, anything else is
It's quite frankly, it's a red herring. It's distracting us
(40:09):
from the main issue. It's distracting us from the serious
factors that are at play. Again, I went looking into
some of those bread Peel Manisphere group chats and Reddit pages,
and you know what really disappointed me was how easily
distracted they are from what is really causing their loneliness,
(40:29):
or because of women rejected them, or or because of
women was involved. They will get so close to the
truth and then they will fall short. This is an
exact comment on a post titled a men's loneliness epidemic
is real and why we shouldn't say otherwise in a
Reddit group called Men's Rights quote. I saw a news
(40:49):
article about male loneliness epidemic, and all it talked about
was how it affected women. I dislocated my knee at
work and no one messaged me or contacted me to
see if I was doing okay or anything. But when
one of the women went on leave for a sawback,
they sent her a Get World card and some cash
end quote. Do you see what I'm talking about? This,
(41:13):
to me is a prime example of this poor guy
being mad at the woman who got the card and
not at the system that meant that you didn't feel
you could reach out, or the system that made it
seem that because you were a man, you could be
strong and they didn't have to help you. What if
instead of focusing on what women could or could not
(41:35):
do for men, why does a male versus female problem,
we focused on how this is a resource issue, a
time issue, a mental health issue, a system issue. If
someone brings up the male loneliness epidemic to you, I
think it's an invitation to instead steer them towards the
bigger picture by saying, you know, yeah, it's so awful
(41:57):
that men are made to feel so limited in their
emotional capabiit that being in a relationship is their only
cue loneliness that really does suck? Or say like, yes,
it is so hard that mental health and physical health
struggles are so stigmatized that people feel isolated, or bring
up the statistics that we talked about before, Men and
(42:18):
lone Men and women are equally lonely because we are
all lacking from opportunities to meaningfully connect. That's something we
really need to fix as a collective, don't we. And
whatever gender you are, if you see an issue with
loneliness in your life or in your community, become the
person that fixes that. Be the instigator. Make a run club,
(42:42):
invite people over for dinner at your house, become the host.
Join a book club or make a book club. Get
a foster dog and walk it in the park. The
amount of people you will meet and talk to is
mind blowing. Volunteer even if it's through work like. There
are so many other options here, And if you have
other suggestions of things that you've done, please like drop
(43:04):
them below. So the number the third thing, number three.
Third thing we need to do it is we need
to not engage with manisphere influences that make men feel
more isolated and instead promote healthy male role models. If
you see someone spouting just like plain nonsense, block them,
(43:26):
press uninterested, do not comment, do not like, do not argue,
do not engage, Stop giving these people oxygen and instead
make it a point to follow, engage, comment like reshare
content from healthy male role models. Here are some examples
of people who I think are just absolutely excellent. The
(43:49):
first one is Ned Brockman. He was an electrician who
ran across Australia in a couple of years ago, and
he raised two point six million dollars for homelessness. And
he continues to share super and inspiring stuff. Super healthy
male role model. I'd be so happy if my son's
turned out like him. Hank Green another great example. He
(44:11):
was just battling cancer and he continued to share his
journey throughout that, and he continues to like inform people
about science, about news. He's great. Dak Shepherd and his
podcast Armchair Expert. He also overcame a substance abuse problem.
He talks about that very openly. Doctor J Barnett incredible man.
I love his stuff. Tom Daly as well, love him
(44:33):
as well. Like I can keep going. I can list
all these amazing men who I think are great examples
of what it means to be a man who asks
for help, who is connected, who talks about struggle, who
also does really cool stuff. You know the show that
I think every man should be required to watch at school,
It's Ted Lasso. Like that show is one of the
(44:56):
most amazing things ever made, and it talks about male
loneliness about men's mental health and masculinity and divorce and breakups.
In like the most wonderful, positive way that is actually productive.
We need more of that number four. We need to
call out the men in our lives now. This is
specifically for other men. Silence is complicity, and one of
(45:20):
the most powerful ways to shift culture is not through
big articles, outrage, Instagram posts, even podcasts like this one.
We know it's through everyday accountability. When men hear their friends, brothers, colleagues,
strangers make sexist jokes, belittle women, dismiss conversations about violence,
(45:41):
or continue to spurt toxic myths about masculinity, those moments
were really critical. Too often they slide unchallenged because it's uncomfortable.
It's uncomfortable. I've had times where I haven't spoken of
about things I really should have, but that only silently
reinforces a belief system that is hurting your fellow men.
When another man steps in, whether it's like a simple
(46:04):
like that's not funny, or like another guy saying like
cut the shit, screw your head on, it cuts through
in a way that women, unfortunately often can't. Research in
social psychology shows that in group criticism when it comes
from someone who is inside your own group, it carries
more weight. A man challenging another man doesn't just interrupt
(46:26):
the harmful cycle, it redefines the norm within that group,
and it signals that, you know, respect and equality for women.
That's the standard, not the exception, not just something that
you perform when you're actually around women. Number five, and
I think this is the most crucial one. We need
(46:47):
to stop pretending that men and women can't be friends.
And I know if you're a woman, you're probably hearing
this and being like, oh, like, I know the feeling, right,
I know why you're probably rolling your eyes. You're like, yeah,
but I try to be friends with men and they
just want to date me. No, we need to make
this completely photonic from both sides. This is bringing me
(47:08):
back to an earlier point I made about the fact
that male loneliness. Yes, it is caused by men not
having male friends. It's also caused by the fact that
when they see a woman that's either someone they want
to date or they can dismiss, or maybe a family member,
and oh my gosh, do they miss out? They miss
(47:29):
out when they have that mindset, Imagine thinking that you
can only be friends with fifty percent of the people
in the world compared to one hundred percent of people.
You're already limiting yourself here, like you're already you're already
starting from a less favorable position when it comes to
tackling loneliness. You already have less options. I did a
full episode on this a while back titled Can men
(47:50):
and women Be Friends? And I think I know the
answer is yes, they very much can, and they very
much should be. I think this would go a long
way and also humanizing women for some of these men
who have unfortunately fallen into a bit of a male
centric echo chamber. Number six. We need to continue to
encourage people to talk about their mental health and to
(48:12):
reduce stigma around to saying I'm super lonely, I'm super sad,
I'm having a rough time. As I kind of finish
up this episode, I want to reiterate, loneliness sucks, whoever
you are. The stigma we face around mental health is
actively hurting people and shaming them into becoming further isolated
and silent, not getting the support that is available to them,
(48:35):
not being open, and let's be real, it really really
hurts people. I also think a rising tide lifts all ships.
It's not a gender thing. We need to start having
conversations openly about mental health, and we need to start
by doing it ourselves. Be brave enough to just answer
(48:57):
the question how are you doing? With honesty because it
has a chain reaction. It invites people to share. For
my male listeners, even if it's just the men and
your family, your cousins, your dad, your grandfather, your brothers,
share with them, ask them how they are.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Check in.
Speaker 2 (49:15):
It might feel awkward, it might feel hard. I actually
think sometimes the best things feel uncomfortable at first, because
that discomfort is a sign that something needs to happen
and something needs to change. Alrighty, as we wrap this
episode up, I want to thank you again for coming
into this episode with an open mind. And if you're
(49:39):
going to comment somebody down below, please keep it civilized.
I will like, I don't want to see anyone being nasty.
I don't want to see anyone being mean. I definitely
don't want to see anyone calling me fat as has
happened in the past, or anyone calling anyone anything rude.
To keep it civil, but I do want to see
the conversation keep going down there, because there's definitely things
(50:01):
I've missed. There's definitely perspectives that I just haven't thought of.
So if you have a perspective or an opinion, please
please share it below. I'd love to hear from you,
and I hope that this episode has eliminated some things
for you. Share it with a friend if it has,
share it with your guy friends, your female friends, your
friends of all genders, your old friends, your new friends,
(50:22):
whoever it is, and see what their thoughts are as well.
Make sure as well that you are following us on
Instagram at that Psychology Podcast if you want to learn
more about this topic and also see more of what
we're doing on the Psychology of your twenties. I also
want to thank our researcher Libby Colbert for her contributions
to this episode and for pushing me to do this
(50:44):
episode and really really appreciate her. We wouldn't be able
to do it without her. And make sure that you're
following along wherever you're listening Spotify, Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app.
Give us a five star review if you feel called
to do so. This won't be the last time we
talk about this, so I can't wait to keep the
conversation going. But until next time, until our next episode,
(51:04):
stay safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself, take care
of yourself as well, talk about your mental health as well.
That's my final, my final reminder, and we will talk
very very soon,
Host
Jemma Sbeghen
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