November 29, 2025 • 27 mins
We can be so fixed on a job, a person, an outcome that we fuse our identity to it – and, crucially, forget that we’re okay without it. In today’s bonus episode, we unpack detachment: why we cling so tightly to people and outcomes, what over-attachment does to our mind and mood, and how to loosen the grip in a way that feels calm, kind, and clear.
We explore:
• Why we become attached to certain people or outcomes
• The impact of becoming overly attached on our behaviours, thoughts and emotions
• The Buddhist concept of ‘non-attachment’
• How detaching from the outcome can keep us grounded
• The value of the Stoic mindset
Listen now!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello everybody, I'm Jemma Spake and welcome back to the
Psychology of Your Twenties, the podcast where we talk through
the biggest changes, moments, and transitions of our twenties and
what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back
(00:26):
to the show. Welcome back to the podcast, new listeners,
old listeners. Wherever you are in the world, it is
so great to have you here back for another episode
as we of course break down the psychology of our twenties.
So today we've got another one of our little bonus episodes.
These are like shorter, more bite sized doses of our
(00:48):
usual content, something to accompany your lunch break or your
little morning walk. In these shorter chats, we just mainly
aim to tackle certain terms, theories, concepts that you may
hear in the self help or psychology space in a
more focused, compact kind of way. And in today's episode,
(01:10):
we are going to be looking at this concept of detachment,
specifically how we can truly detach from an outcome from
a person who is controlling our emotions, from a relationship,
a situation, a job application, really anything. Our attachment to
these things is deeply emotional. It shows we care a lot,
(01:32):
but sometimes our emotional investment can actually cause us to
suffer more in imagination than in reality, and get too
caught up in the what ifs than the what is
actually happening. Detachment is the psychological and emotional kind of
antidote to this that asks us to perhaps be more stoic,
(01:53):
to understand that what we think about something won't always
change what will actually happen, and just to let life
be something that happens to us naturally that flows around us,
rather than us trying to push through it or force
certain things to happen, or struggle against people who aren't
(02:15):
going to change their mind, who may not treat us
any differently, or situations that maybe aren't going to improve
just by us trying to think about them more. It
is an incredibly important skill. That being said, it's also
quite difficult to learn, so let's talk about it. Firstly,
what's the difference between attachment and attachment. It might sound simple,
(02:38):
but attachment is I always think about it as like
having a bird in the palm of your hand and
holding onto it really tightly with a closed fist, hoping
that it will stay, and that not being a comfortable
experience for anybody or anything. Detachment is the ability to
hold what you want or what you have with an
(02:59):
open hand. Sure the bird may fly away, but that
probably means it wasn't meant to be there in the
first place, didn't want to be in there in the
first place. And a new bird, a better bird, a
bird that does want to be there, is going to
fly and land on your hand. That's kind of the
metaphor I always think about. It's basically when you stop
trying to bend reality into your preferred shape, and you
(03:22):
just decide to participate in whatever is actually happening, without gripping,
without bargaining, without trying to force things into place when
they don't fit, detached from a specific outcome, detached from
a specific person and their behaviors. You are very much
in this mindset of what I can control and what
(03:42):
I can't control, and you notice the difference and you
appreciate the difference. In the literature on detachment, psychologists sometimes
basically describe it as a form of cognitive distancing or
emotional distancing, being able to turn down the emotional volume
of a situation or the or your own emotions just enough,
(04:04):
just to be able to think clearly, and just to
act in line with your values and your vision. It's
not that you are going to numb yourself to any outcome.
It's not that you're going to shut down. It's not
that you're going to stop caring. It's still about caring.
It's just about being able to operate without the outcome
(04:24):
or that other person or whatever it is, the event
being your center and being the thing that you obsessively
think about. It's basically saying, don't let the things you
can't control be the only thing that you focus on.
When we're attached, what we're actually attached to is not
(04:45):
always the outcome or the person or the situation or
whatever it is. It's often what that thing represents and
what promises us. Meaning, you're attached to this idea of
getting this job because maybe that will prove to you
that you are hard working, that you are good enough,
that you are set up for the future. You are
(05:05):
attached to receiving attention from this person, not because you
may even like them, but because you think that their
attention would give you some very serious sign that you
are lovable or you know, if they don't give you attention, well,
then that's going to prove that you aren't. We get
attached because as humans, our brains crave a feeling of safety,
(05:30):
and they crave a feeling of knowing. And when we
have certainty of a situations, that is the cheapest shortcut
to feeling okay and to feeling safe in life. It's
also not something that life has promised us. We are
not going to be certain about many many things. But
(05:52):
our brain likes to convince us that if we can
think about it a little more, if we can manipulate
the situation a little bit more, if we can want
it enough, well, then hopefully we can be in control.
And hopefully that will give us a sense of meaning,
a sense of predictability, a sense of certainty. And this
is where our ego and the idea of self concept
(06:15):
comes into this as well. We don't just want that person,
we don't just want that job. We want what it
means and what it will say about us. That we
are lovable, that we are chosen, that we are competent,
that you have a bright future, that life will be happy.
And if we don't get the certainty we want, if
we are if we don't get the outcome we want,
then none of that is, none of that feels correct.
(06:39):
So the goal and the outcome that we get attached
to deeply that is significant to us is so significant
to us because it is fused with self worth and
self belief, and so it takes on a much deeper
level of control and weight than if it didn't mean
(06:59):
though things to us. And just to know, attachment isn't
inherently bad. It's actually quite a healthy organizing force that
can really help us prioritize what and who matters, and
helps us allocate our attention and resources towards goals and
coordinate our lives, and gives us a sense of meaning.
The issue really just comes when we are overly attached,
(07:21):
and instead of helping us organize our lives and giving
life a sense of purpose and importance and meaning and
giving us goals, it actually has the opposite effect. Firstly,
when we are overly attached to a specific thing, our
thoughts actually become a lot more narrow and they begin
to race, and it gives us a feeling that is
very similar to anxiety or to rumination. It can get
(07:46):
really obsessive. Right, we all know that our thoughts might
become more rigid and selective, and you basically start forming
a singular, preferred interpretation of events, and the only information
that you let in is information that seems relevant or
proves what you want to happen. Anything that doesn't do that,
(08:07):
that doesn't point directly towards our target, gets ignored, even
if it is super important, even if it's something like
a significant red flag in somebody's behavior, even if it
is a thing about that apartment that is actually super inconvenient,
something about that job that may actually not be great.
Because our thoughts are narrow, because they are more rigid
(08:30):
and less curious, because we are to attach to a
specific outcome, sometimes we just ignore things that would otherwise
definitely make us desire a different outcome. Secondly, our mood
definitely becomes attached to a specific outcome. If we feel
recognized by that guy, we feel amazing, but if they
don't reply to us, we just feel terrible and worthless
(08:54):
and low. If we get the job, we feel incredible,
We feel purposeful, but if we don't hear back, we
throw in the towel altogether. We swear that we're never
going to bother trying to get a new job in
that industry again. We question all these things about ourselves,
(09:14):
and essentially it's like the emotional systems in our brain
become handcuffed to something that is outside of our control.
And when that dips, when that plateaus, when that rises,
our emotions are going to follow along with it, and
we just feel completely unmoored in that way because we
(09:35):
are no longer you know, the driver, We are no
longer in the driver's seat. We are completely in the
passenger seat to whatever these you know, circumstances choose to
bring us. The thing is as well, you know, the
more we do care and the more attached we are,
which again is normal, the more we do try to push, force, fight,
hold tight, the more we try to make a situation
(09:58):
work that just isn't going to And what that does
is actually, I often think, reduces the chances of something
working out. Sure, this relationship with this person might work
out and might go well, but only if you give
it breathing room. But in our desire for predictability and control,
(10:20):
we try and speed up timelines. We try, and I
don't know, we just we become more obsessive and we
do things that we know are actually counter to our
overall goal. But because we are so attached, it just
feels like this attachment has nowhere to go unless we
take action on its behalf, and we end up ruining things.
(10:42):
We end up putting too much pressure on things, we
end up burning out, we end up feeling so exhausted
that we withdraw or that we move on, or that
we feel like we can't be around somebody or in
a situation, not necessarily even because of what they've done,
but because of how we are approaching this situation. You know,
I have this theory. It's not so much a psychological theory.
(11:04):
It's definitely more of a philosophical, spiritual theory. But I
always say, if you are overly attached to something, to
a relationship and outcome whatever, such that you imagine in
detail exactly how things are going to work out. You're
already picturing the wedding, you're already picturing the new outfits,
you're going to a weddy or new job. I often think
that's actually kind of has like a counteractive effect where
(11:27):
it makes it less likely to happen. It's like in
some universe, I eat in your mind, this situation has
already occurred, and so you know the universe isn't or
God or whatever isn't going to repeat that same event
because it doesn't want to, you know, it wants to
be creative. If you've already created this situation, it cannot
(11:48):
possibly happen again in real time because you know, yeah,
the universe, with the God whatever it is like, likes
to be cheeky and likes to be likes to keep
us on our toes, and likes to give us something different.
So actually, the more you think about things, and the
more you try and imagine picture develop this story in
your head, the less likely it's going to occur. In fact,
(12:08):
probably it's highly unlikely it's not going to occur the
way you think it is because of this principle. And
you know, there's really no evidence for that other than
my anecdotal evidence. But every time I found that I've
clinged or clung sorry I should say too tightly to
something such that I've imagined all these hypotheticals, they have
never come true, and that it's always then ended up
(12:28):
happening in a way that is completely surprising. And I
don't know, maybe that's just the explanation that my brain
has kind of gone to to maybe teach me to
stop overthinking it as much. I think as well, just
on a broader sense. It just overly obsessing about a
specific outcome. It basically reduces how open we are to
(12:49):
other outcomes and to newness, how open we are to
the unexpected, to the beautiful parts of life that really
genuinely surprise us, and the acceptance and having for those
things is really what detachment is about. Instead of being
rigid wanting certainty, wanting an outcome that you think is
best for yourself, we are more curious. We allow the
(13:12):
events around us, the world around us, to deliver the
outcome that is probably better. We are more confident in ourselves,
We trust ourselves regardless of what happens, and we're just
simply more like better able to enjoy and witness things
in our lives and experiences because we're not obsessing over
them or getting attached before they occur such that we
feel their loss much more profoundly. So we can talk
(13:34):
about this till the cows come in. What do we
actually do to get to a level of healthy detachment
so that we can observe be invested, but not emotionally
tied to this situation, so that we can really just
have some more freedom in our lives, more peace. We're
going to talk about all of that and more after
this short break. Of key principles around the art of
(14:02):
detachment actually are heavily influenced by Eastern philosophy, particularly by
Buddhist Endowist principles of non attachment. Non attachment is this
attitude of flexibility and balance towards life experiences, where we
can interact with our thoughts, our feelings, and events without
clinging so desperately to desired positive outcomes or fearing negative ones.
(14:26):
What this concept is based on is this idea that
the nature of our experiences and our mental representations are
actually constructed. They're not permanent, so they can't hurt us
unless we let them, because we can always just allow
them to move on, and we can always just let
them go. I know that sounds very silly and like
(14:46):
a very simple explanation, but people for thousands and thousands
of years have been adopting this way of approaching life.
The simplest way to maybe get into this mindset, the
simplest reset is before before you trying to fix anything,
just giving yourself a literal physical space to see things clearly.
The fastest way is by you know, physically distancing yourself,
(15:09):
getting out of a room, getting out of a conversation,
getting out into the world. So your attention isn't trapped
into this tiny loop of whatever it is you're obsessing over.
You need to be in a different environment or situation
from the one that is causing you stress. When we
feel overly attached to something, I really just think we
can't see the woods from the trees. We become so
(15:31):
overly focused on specific, tiny, minuscule details that we lose
the perspective on the rest of our lives. We lose
the ability to understand the larger overall situation. We lose
the ability to you know, realize that other people are
alive at the same time as us, and to just
put our problems into perspective. This version of detachment is
(15:52):
just the simplest form. Go outside, move your body, do
some kind of intense exercise, let your senses re that
put time and space between the stimulus and your response.
Also a part of this is just to start really
paying attention to the ordinary world, the sounds, temperature, people
walking their dogs, look at other people just living their lives,
(16:15):
and that will allow you to realize that this might
feel incredibly serious and life defying for you, but it
doesn't take up the whole universe, and one day it
won't be at your epicenter anymore. As well, we often
feel like if we focus on the issue or the
goal just a little bit longer, if we work just
a little bit harder, if we analyze their response just
(16:38):
once more, you know we will have control. We will
be able to put you know, problem, solve this situation.
But this never happens. This is a classic thought spiral.
There are limitless things and ways to see this situation,
limitless things to think about, limitless possibilities. You thinking about
(17:00):
the more is just adding fuel to the fire and
just further convincing your brain in your mind that one
more second to think about it, one more second of rumination,
one more moment to attach even further, is somehow going
to get you an answer or some are going to
give you certainty. By gaining literal distance, you are widening
(17:21):
your frame of reference so that you are allowed to
choose how to respond rather than just having to react,
and you are able to really identify this problem or
this situation for what it actually is, rather than what
your mind is making it out to be. So the
next move is to refill yourself so that you're worth
(17:42):
isn't hanging on one reply, one meeting, one person, one
thing going right. As we saw earlier, one of the
key aspects of being overly attached to something or someone
is that our sense of self worth often begins to
be contingent on that thing happening. So it's really, I'm
cru sure that we start to recenter this back onto ourselves,
(18:03):
re anchor ourselves back into us. Just really practice the
opposite of humility and the opposite of being attached or
devoted to something or someone else. Stroke your own ego,
Celebrate how freaking amazing you are. Reinforce that you will
be fine without this thing for the next day or two.
(18:26):
Flood your schedule with proof that you exist well beyond
this goal or this person or whatever it is you
have in mind. Go out for dinner, Create something by yourself,
like a really hot new outfit, get a haircut, Do
anything that makes you feel novel, makes you feel confident,
makes you feel in your energy and your power. Make
as many plans as possible that don't include the person,
(18:50):
the thing, the event, the situation, the place that you're
attaching to. If you're dating, make sure you're also dating
your friends, exploring your city, having evening plans, building out
the world beyond this thing that has taken your focus,
making sure that there are all these other things that
you're excited by and investigating and curious and you know,
(19:14):
just motivated to see, so that your whole world isn't
just whatever it is you're obsessing over. Detaching, you know,
it isn't about not caring. It's about ensuring that your
world and your life is big enough that no singular
thing could come in and suffocate everything else out. You
(19:39):
can be engaged in the parts of your life or
in the people in your life that you do feel
attached to. You just can't be fused. You just can't
have an emotional over alliance on something going right or
somebody liking you, or a situation working in your favor.
To determine whether you're going to be happy for that day,
the next thing, or the next is to really ask yourself,
(20:02):
does this fit? Or am I standing the edges of
myself or of my life to make it fit? Now?
I think we have a little bit of a gut
reaction when I mention this or when I talk about this.
When something fits, you know that it fits, like there
is ease there. It's like the perfect pair of genes,
(20:25):
Like imagine your most perfect, comfortable pair of genes. It's
no friction, no tension. They're always going to be amazing.
When you try on a bad pair of genes, it's
pretty noticeable, and you can convince yourself that you'll change
for the genes, that the genes will stretch whatever. They
never do, and you end up throwing them out, you
end up donating them, you end up having to sell
them anyways. Like you know, and you know about certain relationships,
(20:48):
You know about certain situations as well. When something fits,
plans get made, Replies don't need decoding. Your life doesn't
necessarily feel like you're spinning plates to stay afloat. You
feel steady without constantly needing to be fixing things or
tending to the situation, feeling burnt out, feeling awfully terribly stressed.
(21:12):
You know when it isn't a fit like you do
feel that there's lots of persuading, lots of justifying, lots
of what if we just try this or this or
this kind of energy, and it's a very desperate feeling,
which we don't like. We don't like feeling that. To
give you another metaphor, like think of it as like
a jigsaw piece. The wrong decision, something that we're overly
attached to that isn't right. Is like trying to force
(21:36):
the wrong jigsaw puzzle piece into a picture that's already
been made. You have one piece left, and you're so tired,
you're so exhausted. You think that this last piece is
going to be this last couple of pieces is going
to be right, and it just it's not working. You
press harder, you cut off a corner and you can
just visually see it doesn't fit, and you will always
(21:58):
know that it's wrong, and the whole picture becomes warped
around it. It just doesn't look okay. And I think
relationships and goals act in the same way. If it
only fits when you're shrinking, over explaining, carrying eighty percent
of the load, you're forcing it. And there is another
puzzle piece somewhere in that box. There is another puzzle
(22:21):
piece that maybe somebody else needs to find and give
to you that will fit better, and you just have
to wait. And I know that can be frustrating advice,
But I can think of all these times where I
just release the need to know, and I release the
need for a specific outcome, and each time I was
deeply rewarded, and it was much much better than what
(22:41):
I initially wanted. Two great examples of this are like
the last place that I lived, like the first place
I ever lived alone. This my beautiful, little dingy one
bedroom house. That house was perfect for me. And before
that house, I actually applied for another apartment and it
was like the first or second one that I seen,
and I just got myself convinced that this was the
(23:03):
right one, and I was so anxious and stressed about it.
And the thing was is that that apartment would have
been terrible to live in. It was like on the
bottom floor, there was no light, there was no public transport,
there was no parking, like, but my mind had just
convinced me like that's the one, and I was clinging
onto it, clinging on to it, and when I didn't
(23:24):
get it, it was actually quite relieving, and I'm glad I
didn't because then I got the thing that was better
for me. It's the same with my last corporate job.
I applied. I didn't hear anything for months. I detached.
I basically told everyone like, oh, I'm not going to
get it. I didn't get it, Like I basically gave
everybody else, like I told them what the outcome was
without knowing, and like I genuinely think, like a week later,
(23:46):
I got like a call about that job, and you know,
these are just stories. Detaching doesn't necessarily increase the chance
of an outcome happening, but I think it just lets
you suffer less, enjoy life more, and have a more
positive open outlook to other things that are coming your way.
My last tip is to just really try and adopt
(24:06):
this stoic mentality we've been discussing throughout this episode. Focus
as much as you can list in your notes, app
in your journal, as much as you can what you
can control and what you cannot. That is detachment in
the most grounded sense, recognizing that life is not going
to arrange itself around your preferences, and knowing ahead of
(24:28):
time that you're going to be okay with that. Anyways,
you can want something and you can still refuse to
make your well being hostage to it. Bad things might happen,
plans might change, you might not get what you really desired.
You trust yourself enough to know that you're going to
be okay. And we talk about self trust so much
on this podcast. But it is the opposite of anxiety.
(24:49):
It is the opposite of anxious attachment. It is the
opposite of panic, it's the opposite of rumination. Is just
I trust myself. I know that, yes, these things could happen,
Yes things could not work out. I'll still be all right.
I will still be able to be tested and come
(25:10):
through this. And I think that that really is like
the most positive way to think about anything that is
out of your control is like, yeah, try me, like
I'm ready my self. Trust in myself is deep. I'm
unshakable based on whatever is going on around me. And
just think about how different your day feels when you
have that mentality. The thing is, you're still going to
(25:33):
show up, You're still going to ask what you want,
You're still going to prepare, You're still going to have
an open heart. Nothing about the effort you put in changes,
but the meaning you assign to the result softens. Yes,
becomes an opportunity and know it's just information that you
use for next time. Neither is a measure of your worth,
(25:53):
which is so important. It's just a refusal to confuse
your preference and a certain outcome with happiness and with necessity,
like you're gonna be okay no matter what. I know
this episode has been more of a pep talk than
maybe like specific tips, But I really do feel like
(26:14):
this is an energy. This is a real mindset that
you float into and once you're in you really understand
how much more peace comes with it. And it takes time.
I'm definitely not the best at it. But when I
do actively try and force myself to just consider other outcomes,
(26:35):
to just really relax into whatever's going to happen, will happen,
whatever will be will be, I genuinely feel the tension
shift out of my body, and I find my approach
to things changes and people notice that and they respond
back to me in a way that is honestly, surprisingly
more positive. So I hope that this is convincing. I
hope this episode was helpful. I hope you can apply
(26:57):
it in your own life, whether it is with a situationship,
a job, an apartment, a friend, just the life in general. Yeah,
I hope it goes. I hope it goes far for you.
I want to thank our research assistantly Bi Culbert for
her help on this special bonus episode. Make sure that
you are following us on Instagram at that Psychology podcast.
(27:17):
Our December Guest Month starts in a couple of days
and we have some amazing gues for you guys, so
I'd love for you to be I'd love for you
to know when the episode's ith. Make sure you're also
subscribed following whatever it is, whatever app you're listening on
to the podcast as well, so that you also get
those notifications, and leave a comment in the description. If
(27:38):
you have made it this far, what are you trying
to detach from right now? What is this episode hopefully
helping you move on from trend more lightly with? I'd
love to hear it. But until next time, stay safe,
be kind, be gentle to yourself. We will talk very
very soon.
Hello everybody, I'm Jemma Spake and welcome back to the
Psychology of Your Twenties, the podcast where we talk through
the biggest changes, moments, and transitions of our twenties and
what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back
(00:26):
to the show. Welcome back to the podcast, new listeners,
old listeners. Wherever you are in the world, it is
so great to have you here back for another episode
as we of course break down the psychology of our twenties.
So today we've got another one of our little bonus episodes.
These are like shorter, more bite sized doses of our
(00:48):
usual content, something to accompany your lunch break or your
little morning walk. In these shorter chats, we just mainly
aim to tackle certain terms, theories, concepts that you may
hear in the self help or psychology space in a
more focused, compact kind of way. And in today's episode,
(01:10):
we are going to be looking at this concept of detachment,
specifically how we can truly detach from an outcome from
a person who is controlling our emotions, from a relationship,
a situation, a job application, really anything. Our attachment to
these things is deeply emotional. It shows we care a lot,
(01:32):
but sometimes our emotional investment can actually cause us to
suffer more in imagination than in reality, and get too
caught up in the what ifs than the what is
actually happening. Detachment is the psychological and emotional kind of
antidote to this that asks us to perhaps be more stoic,
(01:53):
to understand that what we think about something won't always
change what will actually happen, and just to let life
be something that happens to us naturally that flows around us,
rather than us trying to push through it or force
certain things to happen, or struggle against people who aren't
(02:15):
going to change their mind, who may not treat us
any differently, or situations that maybe aren't going to improve
just by us trying to think about them more. It
is an incredibly important skill. That being said, it's also
quite difficult to learn, so let's talk about it. Firstly,
what's the difference between attachment and attachment. It might sound simple,
(02:38):
but attachment is I always think about it as like
having a bird in the palm of your hand and
holding onto it really tightly with a closed fist, hoping
that it will stay, and that not being a comfortable
experience for anybody or anything. Detachment is the ability to
hold what you want or what you have with an
(02:59):
open hand. Sure the bird may fly away, but that
probably means it wasn't meant to be there in the
first place, didn't want to be in there in the
first place. And a new bird, a better bird, a
bird that does want to be there, is going to
fly and land on your hand. That's kind of the
metaphor I always think about. It's basically when you stop
trying to bend reality into your preferred shape, and you
(03:22):
just decide to participate in whatever is actually happening, without gripping,
without bargaining, without trying to force things into place when
they don't fit, detached from a specific outcome, detached from
a specific person and their behaviors. You are very much
in this mindset of what I can control and what
(03:42):
I can't control, and you notice the difference and you
appreciate the difference. In the literature on detachment, psychologists sometimes
basically describe it as a form of cognitive distancing or
emotional distancing, being able to turn down the emotional volume
of a situation or the or your own emotions just enough,
(04:04):
just to be able to think clearly, and just to
act in line with your values and your vision. It's
not that you are going to numb yourself to any outcome.
It's not that you're going to shut down. It's not
that you're going to stop caring. It's still about caring.
It's just about being able to operate without the outcome
(04:24):
or that other person or whatever it is, the event
being your center and being the thing that you obsessively
think about. It's basically saying, don't let the things you
can't control be the only thing that you focus on.
When we're attached, what we're actually attached to is not
(04:45):
always the outcome or the person or the situation or
whatever it is. It's often what that thing represents and
what promises us. Meaning, you're attached to this idea of
getting this job because maybe that will prove to you
that you are hard working, that you are good enough,
that you are set up for the future. You are
(05:05):
attached to receiving attention from this person, not because you
may even like them, but because you think that their
attention would give you some very serious sign that you
are lovable or you know, if they don't give you attention, well,
then that's going to prove that you aren't. We get
attached because as humans, our brains crave a feeling of safety,
(05:30):
and they crave a feeling of knowing. And when we
have certainty of a situations, that is the cheapest shortcut
to feeling okay and to feeling safe in life. It's
also not something that life has promised us. We are
not going to be certain about many many things. But
(05:52):
our brain likes to convince us that if we can
think about it a little more, if we can manipulate
the situation a little bit more, if we can want
it enough, well, then hopefully we can be in control.
And hopefully that will give us a sense of meaning,
a sense of predictability, a sense of certainty. And this
is where our ego and the idea of self concept
(06:15):
comes into this as well. We don't just want that person,
we don't just want that job. We want what it
means and what it will say about us. That we
are lovable, that we are chosen, that we are competent,
that you have a bright future, that life will be happy.
And if we don't get the certainty we want, if
we are if we don't get the outcome we want,
then none of that is, none of that feels correct.
(06:39):
So the goal and the outcome that we get attached
to deeply that is significant to us is so significant
to us because it is fused with self worth and
self belief, and so it takes on a much deeper
level of control and weight than if it didn't mean
(06:59):
though things to us. And just to know, attachment isn't
inherently bad. It's actually quite a healthy organizing force that
can really help us prioritize what and who matters, and
helps us allocate our attention and resources towards goals and
coordinate our lives, and gives us a sense of meaning.
The issue really just comes when we are overly attached,
(07:21):
and instead of helping us organize our lives and giving
life a sense of purpose and importance and meaning and
giving us goals, it actually has the opposite effect. Firstly,
when we are overly attached to a specific thing, our
thoughts actually become a lot more narrow and they begin
to race, and it gives us a feeling that is
very similar to anxiety or to rumination. It can get
(07:46):
really obsessive. Right, we all know that our thoughts might
become more rigid and selective, and you basically start forming
a singular, preferred interpretation of events, and the only information
that you let in is information that seems relevant or
proves what you want to happen. Anything that doesn't do that,
(08:07):
that doesn't point directly towards our target, gets ignored, even
if it is super important, even if it's something like
a significant red flag in somebody's behavior, even if it
is a thing about that apartment that is actually super inconvenient,
something about that job that may actually not be great.
Because our thoughts are narrow, because they are more rigid
(08:30):
and less curious, because we are to attach to a
specific outcome, sometimes we just ignore things that would otherwise
definitely make us desire a different outcome. Secondly, our mood
definitely becomes attached to a specific outcome. If we feel
recognized by that guy, we feel amazing, but if they
don't reply to us, we just feel terrible and worthless
(08:54):
and low. If we get the job, we feel incredible,
We feel purposeful, but if we don't hear back, we
throw in the towel altogether. We swear that we're never
going to bother trying to get a new job in
that industry again. We question all these things about ourselves,
(09:14):
and essentially it's like the emotional systems in our brain
become handcuffed to something that is outside of our control.
And when that dips, when that plateaus, when that rises,
our emotions are going to follow along with it, and
we just feel completely unmoored in that way because we
(09:35):
are no longer you know, the driver, We are no
longer in the driver's seat. We are completely in the
passenger seat to whatever these you know, circumstances choose to
bring us. The thing is as well, you know, the
more we do care and the more attached we are,
which again is normal, the more we do try to push, force, fight,
hold tight, the more we try to make a situation
(09:58):
work that just isn't going to And what that does
is actually, I often think, reduces the chances of something
working out. Sure, this relationship with this person might work
out and might go well, but only if you give
it breathing room. But in our desire for predictability and control,
(10:20):
we try and speed up timelines. We try, and I
don't know, we just we become more obsessive and we
do things that we know are actually counter to our
overall goal. But because we are so attached, it just
feels like this attachment has nowhere to go unless we
take action on its behalf, and we end up ruining things.
(10:42):
We end up putting too much pressure on things, we
end up burning out, we end up feeling so exhausted
that we withdraw or that we move on, or that
we feel like we can't be around somebody or in
a situation, not necessarily even because of what they've done,
but because of how we are approaching this situation. You know,
I have this theory. It's not so much a psychological theory.
(11:04):
It's definitely more of a philosophical, spiritual theory. But I
always say, if you are overly attached to something, to
a relationship and outcome whatever, such that you imagine in
detail exactly how things are going to work out. You're
already picturing the wedding, you're already picturing the new outfits,
you're going to a weddy or new job. I often think
that's actually kind of has like a counteractive effect where
(11:27):
it makes it less likely to happen. It's like in
some universe, I eat in your mind, this situation has
already occurred, and so you know the universe isn't or
God or whatever isn't going to repeat that same event
because it doesn't want to, you know, it wants to
be creative. If you've already created this situation, it cannot
(11:48):
possibly happen again in real time because you know, yeah,
the universe, with the God whatever it is like, likes
to be cheeky and likes to be likes to keep
us on our toes, and likes to give us something different.
So actually, the more you think about things, and the
more you try and imagine picture develop this story in
your head, the less likely it's going to occur. In fact,
(12:08):
probably it's highly unlikely it's not going to occur the
way you think it is because of this principle. And
you know, there's really no evidence for that other than
my anecdotal evidence. But every time I found that I've
clinged or clung sorry I should say too tightly to
something such that I've imagined all these hypotheticals, they have
never come true, and that it's always then ended up
(12:28):
happening in a way that is completely surprising. And I
don't know, maybe that's just the explanation that my brain
has kind of gone to to maybe teach me to
stop overthinking it as much. I think as well, just
on a broader sense. It just overly obsessing about a
specific outcome. It basically reduces how open we are to
(12:49):
other outcomes and to newness, how open we are to
the unexpected, to the beautiful parts of life that really
genuinely surprise us, and the acceptance and having for those
things is really what detachment is about. Instead of being
rigid wanting certainty, wanting an outcome that you think is
best for yourself, we are more curious. We allow the
(13:12):
events around us, the world around us, to deliver the
outcome that is probably better. We are more confident in ourselves,
We trust ourselves regardless of what happens, and we're just
simply more like better able to enjoy and witness things
in our lives and experiences because we're not obsessing over
them or getting attached before they occur such that we
feel their loss much more profoundly. So we can talk
(13:34):
about this till the cows come in. What do we
actually do to get to a level of healthy detachment
so that we can observe be invested, but not emotionally
tied to this situation, so that we can really just
have some more freedom in our lives, more peace. We're
going to talk about all of that and more after
this short break. Of key principles around the art of
(14:02):
detachment actually are heavily influenced by Eastern philosophy, particularly by
Buddhist Endowist principles of non attachment. Non attachment is this
attitude of flexibility and balance towards life experiences, where we
can interact with our thoughts, our feelings, and events without
clinging so desperately to desired positive outcomes or fearing negative ones.
(14:26):
What this concept is based on is this idea that
the nature of our experiences and our mental representations are
actually constructed. They're not permanent, so they can't hurt us
unless we let them, because we can always just allow
them to move on, and we can always just let
them go. I know that sounds very silly and like
(14:46):
a very simple explanation, but people for thousands and thousands
of years have been adopting this way of approaching life.
The simplest way to maybe get into this mindset, the
simplest reset is before before you trying to fix anything,
just giving yourself a literal physical space to see things clearly.
The fastest way is by you know, physically distancing yourself,
(15:09):
getting out of a room, getting out of a conversation,
getting out into the world. So your attention isn't trapped
into this tiny loop of whatever it is you're obsessing over.
You need to be in a different environment or situation
from the one that is causing you stress. When we
feel overly attached to something, I really just think we
can't see the woods from the trees. We become so
(15:31):
overly focused on specific, tiny, minuscule details that we lose
the perspective on the rest of our lives. We lose
the ability to understand the larger overall situation. We lose
the ability to you know, realize that other people are
alive at the same time as us, and to just
put our problems into perspective. This version of detachment is
(15:52):
just the simplest form. Go outside, move your body, do
some kind of intense exercise, let your senses re that
put time and space between the stimulus and your response.
Also a part of this is just to start really
paying attention to the ordinary world, the sounds, temperature, people
walking their dogs, look at other people just living their lives,
(16:15):
and that will allow you to realize that this might
feel incredibly serious and life defying for you, but it
doesn't take up the whole universe, and one day it
won't be at your epicenter anymore. As well, we often
feel like if we focus on the issue or the
goal just a little bit longer, if we work just
a little bit harder, if we analyze their response just
(16:38):
once more, you know we will have control. We will
be able to put you know, problem, solve this situation.
But this never happens. This is a classic thought spiral.
There are limitless things and ways to see this situation,
limitless things to think about, limitless possibilities. You thinking about
(17:00):
the more is just adding fuel to the fire and
just further convincing your brain in your mind that one
more second to think about it, one more second of rumination,
one more moment to attach even further, is somehow going
to get you an answer or some are going to
give you certainty. By gaining literal distance, you are widening
(17:21):
your frame of reference so that you are allowed to
choose how to respond rather than just having to react,
and you are able to really identify this problem or
this situation for what it actually is, rather than what
your mind is making it out to be. So the
next move is to refill yourself so that you're worth
(17:42):
isn't hanging on one reply, one meeting, one person, one
thing going right. As we saw earlier, one of the
key aspects of being overly attached to something or someone
is that our sense of self worth often begins to
be contingent on that thing happening. So it's really, I'm
cru sure that we start to recenter this back onto ourselves,
(18:03):
re anchor ourselves back into us. Just really practice the
opposite of humility and the opposite of being attached or
devoted to something or someone else. Stroke your own ego,
Celebrate how freaking amazing you are. Reinforce that you will
be fine without this thing for the next day or two.
(18:26):
Flood your schedule with proof that you exist well beyond
this goal or this person or whatever it is you
have in mind. Go out for dinner, Create something by yourself,
like a really hot new outfit, get a haircut, Do
anything that makes you feel novel, makes you feel confident,
makes you feel in your energy and your power. Make
as many plans as possible that don't include the person,
(18:50):
the thing, the event, the situation, the place that you're
attaching to. If you're dating, make sure you're also dating
your friends, exploring your city, having evening plans, building out
the world beyond this thing that has taken your focus,
making sure that there are all these other things that
you're excited by and investigating and curious and you know,
(19:14):
just motivated to see, so that your whole world isn't
just whatever it is you're obsessing over. Detaching, you know,
it isn't about not caring. It's about ensuring that your
world and your life is big enough that no singular
thing could come in and suffocate everything else out. You
(19:39):
can be engaged in the parts of your life or
in the people in your life that you do feel
attached to. You just can't be fused. You just can't
have an emotional over alliance on something going right or
somebody liking you, or a situation working in your favor.
To determine whether you're going to be happy for that day,
the next thing, or the next is to really ask yourself,
(20:02):
does this fit? Or am I standing the edges of
myself or of my life to make it fit? Now?
I think we have a little bit of a gut
reaction when I mention this or when I talk about this.
When something fits, you know that it fits, like there
is ease there. It's like the perfect pair of genes,
(20:25):
Like imagine your most perfect, comfortable pair of genes. It's
no friction, no tension. They're always going to be amazing.
When you try on a bad pair of genes, it's
pretty noticeable, and you can convince yourself that you'll change
for the genes, that the genes will stretch whatever. They
never do, and you end up throwing them out, you
end up donating them, you end up having to sell
them anyways. Like you know, and you know about certain relationships,
(20:48):
You know about certain situations as well. When something fits,
plans get made, Replies don't need decoding. Your life doesn't
necessarily feel like you're spinning plates to stay afloat. You
feel steady without constantly needing to be fixing things or
tending to the situation, feeling burnt out, feeling awfully terribly stressed.
(21:12):
You know when it isn't a fit like you do
feel that there's lots of persuading, lots of justifying, lots
of what if we just try this or this or
this kind of energy, and it's a very desperate feeling,
which we don't like. We don't like feeling that. To
give you another metaphor, like think of it as like
a jigsaw piece. The wrong decision, something that we're overly
attached to that isn't right. Is like trying to force
(21:36):
the wrong jigsaw puzzle piece into a picture that's already
been made. You have one piece left, and you're so tired,
you're so exhausted. You think that this last piece is
going to be this last couple of pieces is going
to be right, and it just it's not working. You
press harder, you cut off a corner and you can
just visually see it doesn't fit, and you will always
(21:58):
know that it's wrong, and the whole picture becomes warped
around it. It just doesn't look okay. And I think
relationships and goals act in the same way. If it
only fits when you're shrinking, over explaining, carrying eighty percent
of the load, you're forcing it. And there is another
puzzle piece somewhere in that box. There is another puzzle
(22:21):
piece that maybe somebody else needs to find and give
to you that will fit better, and you just have
to wait. And I know that can be frustrating advice,
But I can think of all these times where I
just release the need to know, and I release the
need for a specific outcome, and each time I was
deeply rewarded, and it was much much better than what
(22:41):
I initially wanted. Two great examples of this are like
the last place that I lived, like the first place
I ever lived alone. This my beautiful, little dingy one
bedroom house. That house was perfect for me. And before
that house, I actually applied for another apartment and it
was like the first or second one that I seen,
and I just got myself convinced that this was the
(23:03):
right one, and I was so anxious and stressed about it.
And the thing was is that that apartment would have
been terrible to live in. It was like on the
bottom floor, there was no light, there was no public transport,
there was no parking, like, but my mind had just
convinced me like that's the one, and I was clinging
onto it, clinging on to it, and when I didn't
(23:24):
get it, it was actually quite relieving, and I'm glad I
didn't because then I got the thing that was better
for me. It's the same with my last corporate job.
I applied. I didn't hear anything for months. I detached.
I basically told everyone like, oh, I'm not going to
get it. I didn't get it, Like I basically gave
everybody else, like I told them what the outcome was
without knowing, and like I genuinely think, like a week later,
(23:46):
I got like a call about that job, and you know,
these are just stories. Detaching doesn't necessarily increase the chance
of an outcome happening, but I think it just lets
you suffer less, enjoy life more, and have a more
positive open outlook to other things that are coming your way.
My last tip is to just really try and adopt
(24:06):
this stoic mentality we've been discussing throughout this episode. Focus
as much as you can list in your notes, app
in your journal, as much as you can what you
can control and what you cannot. That is detachment in
the most grounded sense, recognizing that life is not going
to arrange itself around your preferences, and knowing ahead of
(24:28):
time that you're going to be okay with that. Anyways,
you can want something and you can still refuse to
make your well being hostage to it. Bad things might happen,
plans might change, you might not get what you really desired.
You trust yourself enough to know that you're going to
be okay. And we talk about self trust so much
on this podcast. But it is the opposite of anxiety.
(24:49):
It is the opposite of anxious attachment. It is the
opposite of panic, it's the opposite of rumination. Is just
I trust myself. I know that, yes, these things could happen,
Yes things could not work out. I'll still be all right.
I will still be able to be tested and come
(25:10):
through this. And I think that that really is like
the most positive way to think about anything that is
out of your control is like, yeah, try me, like
I'm ready my self. Trust in myself is deep. I'm
unshakable based on whatever is going on around me. And
just think about how different your day feels when you
have that mentality. The thing is, you're still going to
(25:33):
show up, You're still going to ask what you want,
You're still going to prepare, You're still going to have
an open heart. Nothing about the effort you put in changes,
but the meaning you assign to the result softens. Yes,
becomes an opportunity and know it's just information that you
use for next time. Neither is a measure of your worth,
(25:53):
which is so important. It's just a refusal to confuse
your preference and a certain outcome with happiness and with necessity,
like you're gonna be okay no matter what. I know
this episode has been more of a pep talk than
maybe like specific tips, But I really do feel like
(26:14):
this is an energy. This is a real mindset that
you float into and once you're in you really understand
how much more peace comes with it. And it takes time.
I'm definitely not the best at it. But when I
do actively try and force myself to just consider other outcomes,
(26:35):
to just really relax into whatever's going to happen, will happen,
whatever will be will be, I genuinely feel the tension
shift out of my body, and I find my approach
to things changes and people notice that and they respond
back to me in a way that is honestly, surprisingly
more positive. So I hope that this is convincing. I
hope this episode was helpful. I hope you can apply
(26:57):
it in your own life, whether it is with a situationship,
a job, an apartment, a friend, just the life in general. Yeah,
I hope it goes. I hope it goes far for you.
I want to thank our research assistantly Bi Culbert for
her help on this special bonus episode. Make sure that
you are following us on Instagram at that Psychology podcast.
(27:17):
Our December Guest Month starts in a couple of days
and we have some amazing gues for you guys, so
I'd love for you to be I'd love for you
to know when the episode's ith. Make sure you're also
subscribed following whatever it is, whatever app you're listening on
to the podcast as well, so that you also get
those notifications, and leave a comment in the description. If
(27:38):
you have made it this far, what are you trying
to detach from right now? What is this episode hopefully
helping you move on from trend more lightly with? I'd
love to hear it. But until next time, stay safe,
be kind, be gentle to yourself. We will talk very
very soon.
Host
Jemma Sbeghen
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