December 23, 2025 • 34 mins
Money and love: the two things we stress about most in our twenties, and yet we rarely talk about how deeply connected they are. In this episode, I’m joined by Jack Howard, Head of Money Wellness at Ally, to unpack the psychology of money in our relationships and how it shapes who we date, how we fight, and how we build a life together.
In this episode, we explore:
- Why money and love are so deeply linked
- Spender vs. saver dynamics and why opposites so often attract
- Why we emotionally spend?
- What’s the deal with prenups?
- Is it worth having an expensive wedding?
- When to get joint bank accounts?
- How to talk about money WELL!
If you’ve ever argued about money with a partner, avoided talking about it, or worried you’re “bad” with finances, this episode will give you language, tools, and a lot of reassurance that you’re not alone.
Take the course HERE
Follow Jemma on Instagram: @jemmasbeg
Follow the podcast on Instagram: @thatpsychologypodcast
For business: psychologyofyour20s@gmail.com
The Psychology of your 20s is not a substitute for professional mental health help. If you are struggling, distressed or require personalised advice, please reach out to your doctor or a licensed psychologist.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello everybody, I'm Jemma Spake and welcome back to the
Psychology of Your Twenties, the podcast where we talk through
the biggest changes, moments, and transitions of our twenties and
what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back
(00:24):
to the show. Welcome back to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Wherever you are in the world, New.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Listeners, old listeners, it is so great to have you here,
back for another amazing guest episode. If I had to
pick two categories that I think I get the most
questions about when it comes to our twenties, it would
no doubt be love and money.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
And although we.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Might view those as separate topics, separate ideas, they are
actually deeply linked. How we think about money. It affects
how we date, who we date, how our love stories
turn out, and how we think about love will impact
what money problems, money issues, money value differences we may overlook.
(01:14):
So today let's talk about the intersection of money relationships
and psychology, everything from prenups to how much you should
spend on a wedding, if and when you should get
joint bank accounts, and why you really need to understand
your money story to really show up in your relationship.
(01:36):
Of course, I am not a financial expert, but I
do have someone joining me today who is and who
is not only a financial expert, but an expert in
love and money.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Let's get into.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
It without further ado, Jack Howard, welcome to the podcast.
Welcome to the Psychology of your twenties.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Thank you, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
We were just talking about this. Have the most disparate
time zones. You're in Detroit, I'm in Sydney, and we've
managed to make it work.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
So thank you, thank you.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
The power of technology is working for us in this moment.
It's what six o'clock, six pm here in deturating. I
know it's morning for you. So you're just getting your
day started and I'm about to wrap it up.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I know it looks pretty good. In the future, I
will say the seventh of November, which is why I'm
recording this, which is tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Thank you, it's a good day.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Before I go any further, because I'm going to just
jump into my questions and I need the listeners to
know a little bit more about you and who you
are and your amazing work.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
So I'm Jack Howard.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
I serve as head of Money wellness for Ally Bank,
and I bet you're thinking, like.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
What is that?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
What title is that? Never heard of it before?
Speaker 4 (02:46):
And it's a really amazing role that I've been in
for about two years. I've had the pleasure of working
for ally for fifteen years in various roles, everything from
our corporate giving I focused on financial education for underserved
communities and corporate giving and employee volunteerism. I did that
(03:07):
for a big chunk of my time, and then I
moved to our invest business where I did a stretch
role as chief of staff for the president there and
decided to stay and help launch our personal advice business,
where you work with a personal wealth advisor to help
you to think through retirement. And it was during that
(03:30):
piece of my career where I was introduced to money psychology.
When you're better aligned to your values, your emotions, and
really understand the behaviors that you have behind some of
your money decisions, it.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Just helps you to stick to the plan.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
And I fell in love with it so much because
one of the questions we would ask is what is
your first memory of money? And for me professionally and personally,
it was such an amazing question because it answered so
much from the work that I had done in financial
literacy to even personally the ups and downs that I've
(04:10):
had with money, of really understanding the why behind your
money decisions, the skills that you try to implement a
lot of people just have a hard time implementing the
skills even though you know the right thing to do.
So I was in that role for a bit and
again I fell in love with the money psychology so
much that I went to our leadership and said, you know,
(04:30):
I think this is really the future of how people
will talk about money. I think it's the future of
how banks will interact with customers.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
So less of the skills.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Yes, you have to know how to save, how to invest,
I can teach you how to do a budget, all
those things, but really understanding that those emotions and the
behaviors that will help you to implement the skills. Having
a better relationship with money. I think it's the future
of how we will talk about it. And they said, okay,
(05:01):
prove it, and I was given the opportunity to start
this role, and most recently we created a free financial
wellness program called Money Roots, where we teach again having
a better relationship with money with four different workshops, and
I'm sure we'll get into that more, but that's kind
of been my journey and that's my current role.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
My God, I love how you've just done so many
different things, like and how it's all just linked back
to this. What it sounds like, this like desire to
understand people better through how like money is a tool
for them, right, and it's like psychological element of it.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
And you know, I think it's stemmed from in my twenties.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
I was a horrible at money, and I graduated from
college with about thirty thousand dollars in student loan debt
and credit card that and from graduating really became passionate
about just having a better understanding of the skill based
side of money, specifically with credit cards. But as time continued,
(06:08):
I was in this hamster wheel of.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Making money, creating credit card debt, and then paying it off.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
So I did that through my thirties and it really
wasn't until this money psychology piece of my financial journey
and professional journey where I really got to the root
of why do I do this?
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Why do I do the.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Things that I do with money? And now I can
put up guardrails to you know, help me to be
more successful. So it's definitely been a journey and one
that I'm so excited to share with everybody else.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
I have a question for you about that piece you
just mentionined. You graduated college, you had this debt at
the time. What do you think your biggest money mistake was.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
I think think my biggest so mine is deeply rooted
in my money story. My biggest mistake then is just
not realizing, specifically for the credit card debt, why I
was creating credit card debt. And for me it was
grounded and a lot of emotional spending, which we're.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Seeing in young people still.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
We have this fear of missing out and social media
you want to keep up with other people. But for me,
it was emotional spending from childhood beliefs that I had
learned from society and my parents. All of those things
created this version of me where I would spend and
create debt. So I think the biggest lesson I've learned
(07:40):
that I wish I would have known then is that
there is no amount of money that can solve your
issues when you need therapy, right when you need emotional
support for things.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
No, there's no purse, there's no vacation.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
When you have some root issues that require a deal support,
you have to address that, and oftentimes, like with money
or food, we will use these things to serve as
a distraction. So I would tell myself, you know, let's
get rid of the distractions, really address some of our
root issues so that we can now show up better
(08:18):
with our relationship with money.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Speaking of relationships, what we really what I really want
to talk to you about today is the intersection between
money and relationships in our twenties, around marriage, yes, but
also just around financial compatibility and how money actually impacts
love in many many ways. Let's start with this question.
(08:45):
How important is financial compatibility in a relationship?
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Okay, so I love this question.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
One of the classes that we teach in money Roots.
It's it's really it's called love and money where we
go deep into the very thing you just said, We
go deep into for you and your romantic partner. What
are the beliefs that you have and your partner has.
What are the things that you learned about money from
(09:15):
your family and from society?
Speaker 3 (09:19):
And then how does this show up in your relationship?
Speaker 4 (09:22):
So most people don't have compatibility, you will have, you know,
for whatever reason.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Opposite to track.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
You may have the spender and the saverer, a nurturer,
or somebody who's an avoid We all have these money personalities,
so one is important to know kind of what your
personality is. But I want everyone to avoid shame around
(09:49):
whatever your money personality is. So I'll be honest and say,
for me and my partner, who I've been with since
I graduated from college, we he is.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
More of a sp more of a saver.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
I'm more of a spender, and I think throughout my twenties,
I had so much shame around being a spender, and
I want it to be frugal like.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Him, but that's not who I am.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I'm a spender.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
I'm a spender.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
So it wasn't until I got to a place of
understanding through your money story, through really getting very aligned
with your money values. That's where having compatibility can come
into play, because you can be opposites. But when you
understand your partner's money story, you understand your partner's values,
(10:37):
it creates empathy for the differences, so it's less about
your frugal and cheap and I'm a spender and you
know you know you're overspending on everything the bumping of
heads to more of Oh I understand why she is
that way, I understand why he is that way, And
now we're able to come together as a couple and
(10:58):
create compatibility. Now we can come together without shame, with
empathy to say, knowing that you're this person, I'm this person,
how do we move forward together to create our own
value system around money? And that's actually something that we
teach in our Money Roots class, the Love and Money.
We actually take you through understanding what that personality is,
(11:21):
what your values are, and then how do we move
forward to create something together.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
When you were talking about your partner, I was like, Oh,
that's a familiar story. Me and maybe partner are the same. Yeah,
it's always been that way for me, Like money was. Again,
it's just such an emotional thing, and so of course
it's going to be like reflected and show up in
your relationship. And of course it's going to be times
when like what is it? Like money is the thing
(11:48):
that couples argue about the most. What I'm hearing you
say is like you don't necessarily have to change all
that much. You just have to understand and find the
middle ground of like what are we responsible for in
this relationship.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
Is that what you're kind of saying, Yeah, So no,
I think yeah, definitely finding the middle ground and guardrails.
So for me, knowing that I am a spender, I
have to deeply attach my spending to my values. So
I'm a huge proponent of value spased spending.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
And what that means is.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
I know my top values are really beautiful things, authenticity,
generational wealth, and really my spirituality. So when I anchor,
and that's a part of money wellness and money well being,
when you're able to anchor your spending, saving and giving
to your values, you get a higher return on what
(12:44):
I like to say, or higher return on joy. So
for me, I know that if a spending, if I'm
spending and it doesn't attach to those values, pause, let's
pause and give it forty eight hours.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
You know, is that black pair of pants beauty full enough?
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Does it meet the requirement of my value of really
beautiful things? Does it meet my requirement for generational wealth?
And that has stopped me in my tracks. I'll be honest,
that has stopped me in my tracks with buying things
because I'll give myself that pause of does this meet
my values?
Speaker 3 (13:17):
And once you start.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
Spending from a place of this has to meet my values,
it increases your well being with money. And then on
the other side from my partner, who is more frugal,
now we're looking at it like money is a tool
for enjoyment. So we got to have a splurge account.
We have a splurge account. So it forces him to
now say, yes, we're going to save, but we're also
(13:40):
going to enjoy the money. We've set money aside to
where if I want to, you know, spend one hundred
dollars on cookies because that's my latest obsession, and he
wants to spend one hundred dollars on legos because that's
his latest subception, that's okay because we both have that
wiggle room within our budget to do so. So again,
creating those structures within your relationship to make that happen,
(14:05):
and it's also known how to have the conversation. I
think that's a big piece that people are missing.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Which I feel like we can get into it in
a second. I want to ask another question on this though,
before we do, which is, how do you deal with
inequality in earnings when you're in a long term relationship
or you're in a just a relationship in your twenties
and beyond what happens when one partner makes significantly more
(14:35):
money or significantly less money. How do we kind of
handle that conversation.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Yeah, I think we have to have transparency. I've talked
to people where they'll do a split based off of
percentages and that's how what you put in. And some
people want it to make it fifty to fifty because
it makes them feel like they're showing up and it
may make you feel powerful. Again, we got to understand
the story behind that and what is preference for you
as an individual. So having the transparency one of I
(15:03):
love to say money date nights. So I'm a big
fan of less schedule money date nights where we can
meet once per week at minimum once per month to
talk about these things and create these guidelines and go
into it having topics of are we going to have
joint accounts or sweat accounts? Are we going to how
are we going to pay the bills? How are we
(15:23):
going to be compatible with our values and our beliefs.
So I think the first step is to just have
these conversations and setting time aside to do so.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Yeah, and also just being incredibly realistic about like can
you if this person has a certain lifestyle, could you
keep up, like can you keep up with what they
want to do and what they want to spend with
still doing the fifty to fifty thing or with you wanting.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
To pay your fanst sht.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Like I do feel like I have a couple of
friends who are relationships like this. Specifically, I'm thinking about
one friend who she makes a lot more and her
partner and he was always like adamant, like no, we're
going to split everything fifty to fifty. And it was like, well,
then we can't do the things that I actually want
to do in a relationship.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
So it was like this.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Real It actually got very like complex with them. It
was like ideas of masculinity and like power and equality,
but then also like enjoyment and experiences and like what
matters more to their relationship, like that they can continue
to play the role that they think they should play
in a relationship, or they can have fun with each
other with the cards the adults, So like, it does get.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
Very very complex, and I just want to call out
everything you just said has nothing to do with money exactly.
It's nothing money you talked about No, you talked about
gender roles and enjoyment and how do we want to
have experiences together? Has nothing to do with money. That's
(16:55):
a completely separate conversation. So the problem is we don't
have those conversations and then it turns into a blow
up about money. So it's so important when we think
of the money date night and how do we have
productive conversations with your partner to say, my values are
experiences and I do want to travel the world, and
so as a partnership, we should allocate our money in
(17:18):
this way to do these things. But again, it's realizing
that those conversations need to take place, and oftentimes people
just avoid it and you're ending up in an argument.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Oh yeah, again, I'm going to pull back out statistic
that we said at the Star. It's like the biggest
source of conflict in relationships is money. So it's like
when you're in your twenties and you're in your relationship,
it's like this is everybody focuses on, like, oh, let's
talk about our attachment styles and let's talk about our future, like.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Do we want kids?
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Like no, you need to have serious conversations about money
early on. Like, it's actually deeply important you.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
Do you know, the money, the what I love about
the work we're doing here at ally, and just this
whole movement that you're going to see within. I hope
to see more within money psychology and money wellness is
looking at money as a part of your well being.
So when you think of your social wellbeing, so your friendships,
when you think of your community, where do you live
(18:14):
and how do you support it, your career, you think
of your fitness and your health, those are all areas
of well being, and when money is off it impacts
all of that. When you are not satisfied with your money,
we're seeing through our own data that people are up
at night, they can't sleep at night. It's impacting their
romantic partnerships. So it's so important that even starting in
(18:34):
your twenties, you know not to let money be this
static thing, but it is a part of your well
being and to give it its full attention in your relationship.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
It's so important.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Okay, we're going to take a show break. Yeah, but
when we were turning, we're gonna talk about preeing. Ops,
I'm gon talk that.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Okay, let's do it.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
We're gonna talk about weddings, stay with us. Something that
I am so fascinated by is prenups. Why people get them,
what they really mean? Genuinely, I'm going to be completely transparent.
I have no idea what a prenup is. Can you
kind of give us a little bit of an explanation.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
Yeah, So, essentially, it's a legal document that outlines your
finances and your assets.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
What happens to.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
It should the marriage end so we're no longer want
to be together. What do we do with the house,
What do we do with that bank account? All of
those things helps you to think about this before.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
You get to a place of divorce.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
So I look at it as almost insurance for your love.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
So I really want people.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
To shift their perspective about prenups, and we're finding that
in some of our data that is becoming less of
a taboo topic and more of a way for couples
to be transparent.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Yeah, sir, I'm going to ask some really naive questions.
Do do you only need to print up if you
have existing wealth? No?
Speaker 3 (20:05):
And here's why. Here's why.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
So for everybody out there in your twenties, my question
is do you think you will have the same amount
of wealth in your forties and fifties that you have
in your twenties. I'm hoping for most people to answer
is going to be no. So the person that you
are in your twenties, the amount of assets that you
have in your twenties compared to when you're older, it changes.
(20:31):
So I think when you set those guidelines in the beginning,
when you get to a place of it didn't work out.
As you mentioned earlier, money is one of the highest
sources of conflicts in marriages. So if you get to
a place to where this didn't work out and we
want to go our separate ways, you're doing it in
the beginning. And I have experienced this and seen it
with friends. The person you are at the beginning of
(20:53):
your marriage, when you're in love and not emotional, is
a very very different person than who you are when
you are at the place of divorce. It's two different people.
So if you're able to do this at a place
when you're still kind to each other, where you still
have best intentions for each other and you're really I
(21:14):
want to say rational, do it then to where you
don't have to you know you're battling with someone later
when a lot of emotions are involved.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
So this is my second naive question because I totally
agree with you. I feel like i've my parents have
always said and they're still together. But like from seeing
friends of theirs get divorced, like the person you marry
is not the person you divorce and they're two different people.
Does asking you for a prenup put pressure on the relationship?
Speaker 4 (21:43):
You know?
Speaker 1 (21:43):
There's definitely like a skeptical pot in my mind, and
tell and please correct it if it's wrong that says
isn't that just saying like a pot of me doesn't
think we're gonna lost now?
Speaker 4 (21:53):
I think we need to shift that that mindset and
really look at it from we're at a place now
where people are more transparent about their finances. People have
especially in your twenties and thirties, you're coming into your
relationship with more assets, so you may have children, all
those things. So really understanding that this is again insurance
(22:14):
should things not work out, and it's a way for
us to be transparent.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
And it's also if it helps.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
I love that it creates a level set of where
are we with our finances? Because in order to have
a pre nup, you have to understand your assets and liabilities.
You have to get all these things on paper for
both you and your partner. So it allows you to
do that level set. So I don't think I want
us to shift that and look at it as less
about we're doomed and all of that, and be realistic
(22:41):
with the stats of what divorce and all those things
are and saying that while we are kind to each
other and have sound decision making and not high emotions,
let's just do this now to ensure that it's not
a problem later.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah, and I.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
Bet that you won't need it. Let's say that it's
just insurance. Yeah, I like this.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Idea insurance for your love. Like you don't buy a
house insurance thinking that you're gonna set your house on file.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
You know what, I don't buy any case, but you
still have it just in case things happen.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
So and I'm hopeful that all marriages last, but in
the event that they don't, just having that as a
backup so that you're not fighting over things later creates
And you know, I also think it creates a better
relationship post the divorce because you didn't have to fight
for all of those things.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
So definitely let's shift.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
How we think about it and allow it to be
a place to create transparency.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
A great topic for money date night.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah, very good topic. That's maybe things.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
So I have a bunch of friends who are getting married.
I'm like, I feel like you get to this point
in your twenties where it's like a wedding every weekend.
Some of them are getting a lot, some of them
are spending a lot of money on the wedding. And
I saw an article that said this has been no judgment.
I really I don't know enough, but this article that
said the more you spend on your wedding, the more
(24:05):
likely you are to get divorced. This is an entry
point for me to ask you how much do you
think couples should.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Spend on their wedding?
Speaker 1 (24:15):
And which I know you might not have an answer for,
but do you see maybe a correlation between spending more
and not putting strain on the relationship.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Let me say this, I think that.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
From my personal I'll just use my personal experience and
what I think people should do and get it. Having
this get back to your values as a couple. As
a young couple, I think it's so important to get
very aligned on what your values are individually and what
your values would be as a couple, and that includes
what do we want this wedding to be. So I'm
(24:52):
not going to shame that your values may be having
a large wedding because you have a big family and
it's celebratory and may be a part of your culture.
But for someone else it may be that they're having
a smaller wedding and more intimate ceremony. Is who they
are really honing in on what you want as a couple,
I think is so important and not getting pulled into
what you mentioned, like you know, I think a lot
(25:14):
of this is, like you know, fear of missing out.
You want to keep up with what your friends. All
of your friends are having big weddings, so you should
have a big wedding. We tend to follow what other
people do mindlessly without really understanding who we are and
what we want individually. So with that in mind, I'm
not going to say a dollar amount, but I do
(25:34):
want to say that I think it has to deeply
align to what your values are as a couple, and
when you spend from that point of view, it will
be affordable because you will not do things that are
not affordable for either of you. Who you'll do things
that are that are affordable for both of you, shall
I say?
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (25:53):
And I like this idea of like, see when I
get married, I'm kin for a big wedding and I
have a huge family. I have a huge like Italian
Irish family, Like it's there's no avoiding it. And you know,
my partner also has a huge family who we love.
But yeah, it's just so interesting when you see these
(26:14):
lavish weddings and you think that you need personalized gifts
for everybody and the day and you think that you
need everybody, like the wedding becomes more about other people
than about you. That's what a lot of my friends
who have spent my time in their wedding said that
they regretted.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
And again, I like that you're bringing.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
It back to values, right, It's like this is about
you two showing your love for each other. Yes, like
your family and friends are involved, but like it's not
their wedding. Like I think, the more you can spend
on the enjoyment for yourself and the things that you like,
this is what I'm seeing for my friends who are
planning weddings, who are having a good time versus those
(26:54):
who are having like a bad time.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Yeah, and you're you're doing it for love. We got
to get back to that.
Speaker 4 (27:00):
You're doing it because you're marrying your partner who you love,
and you want to have an amazing experience with the
people who support that love. And that could be as
simple or elaborate as you want it to be. But again,
like you mentioned, understanding specifically for you, what do you
and your partner want, and not just following the crowd
(27:23):
because that becomes expensive.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Oh my god, yeah, I yes, I've seen it. It
becomes so expensive. And I was like, I had a
friend and she weren't mind me talking about this where
she was like, we spent all this money on like
extra desserts for the.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Guests and then they didn't eat them.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
They didn't eat them. Yeah, they didn't eat them.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
And she was like, oh, like this was such a
big detail that I really I was so stressed about
coordinating how these were going to get there, and like
lah lah, And she was like and I asked her,
I was like, how much, tell me, truthfully, how much
did you spend on Like I think she was like
the cocktails and the dessert and she was like over
(28:04):
three thousand dollars and I was like, that's and she's like,
I just wish we'd just like that's. That could have
been like part of our honeymoon fund, you know what
I mean. So yeah, I like that you you bring
back to values.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
I think also as brides or in life, in life,
we can get so caught up in perfect moments. Yeah,
you have this, you know, you envision what this day
will be and it should be perfect, but we all
know life is not perfect. Things, something's going to go
wrong that day, very small, you know, and just creating
(28:37):
space for that day going into it to know that
why am I here? Why am I here? And what
are my values for doing this? And it helps you
to not really sweat the small stuff of the day
because those things will come up.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
You know, you spent more on the end, Your guests
won't know. That's the other thing.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
Your guests will have no idea that you didn't buy
more desserts, you know, or you didn't have that extra decoration.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
They will never know. Again, they're there to support your love,
so let that be the focus.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Yeah. I love that.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
One final money dilemma that we see in relationships is
shared bank accounts. What do you think about people who
are in early stages of their relationship, maybe they've just
moved in together, getting a shared bank account.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Is it safer at the beginning to just.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Continue to spend separately or is it wise to kind of,
you know, get that extra interest or combine finances for convenience.
What have you seen that kind of works for couples.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
Yeah, So I'm going to give you a little bit
of data and then a little bit of just what
I'm seeing from the.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
World we live in. So I've had the pleasure.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
I did a graduate certification in Financial Health and Wellness
from Texas Tech, the Financial Planning School, and there I
learned through one of our you know, literature reviews that
technically relationships where you share bank accounts are better because
of the transparency. So you just have more transparency within
(30:10):
the relationship, you're more aligned. However, I think we also
have to take into account that people are getting married later,
they have more assets, so it's it may be difficult
to come in and share everything. So again, I think
this is a conversation to where do we have depending
(30:31):
on your assets and the level of comfort that you have,
I think you want to have.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
I think the key here is transparency. That's what I
think the key is.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
So is it that we have certain views of each
other's accounts When we have a money date night, do we.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
Talk about our accounts if they're separate.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
But I do want to take into account that some
people just come into relationships with more assets, so separating
things may be difficult.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
So keeping that in mind.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
The key again is the transparency to where we're not
hiding money when we're getting to financial infidelity things like that.
So we want to have that transparency to ensure that
we know what the assets are. We know we've agreed
upon if we're going to share or not. I personally
am a fan of I have my own account, my
(31:19):
partner has his own account, and then we have one
account where we share.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
Our expenses are shared expenses. That works for me.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
But again, have that conversation so that you can go
into it knowing what each person feels comfortable with. But
according to the academic data, when you share it, it
helps your relationship.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
I love how I love this conversation and I'm so
grateful for all the advice you're giving us on like
the well juicy controversial pots of money and relationships. I
have one final question for you. It's the question we
ask all of our guests, which is, what is one
piece of advice you have for people in the twenties
that has nothing to do with what we talked about today,
(32:00):
Nothing to do with money, nothing to do with relationships.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
Even, Oh my goodness, what would I tell twenty year
old Jacqueline life is short and enjoy the people that
you love. Life is short, and enjoy the people that
you love. Because you know, I'm forty four, I'll be
forty five in March, and over the years, I'm also
a breast cancer survivor, so there's layers to that too.
Of you get to a place of For me in
(32:26):
my twenties, a lot of my twenties was about checking boxes.
So it was graduate from college check, get married, check,
have kids check, you know, have my retirement accounts check.
And then when I was diagnosed with breast cancer at thirty,
and with that, it really reset who I was as
(32:48):
a person to really understand that I'm here to have
experiences with the people that I love, and when you
when you live life from that standpoint, a lot of
these small things like we're talking about decorations at a
wedding or did I get enough desserts. When you look
at life through that lens, it becomes so much more joyful.
(33:10):
And that's one of the reasons why I love my
work at ALLY, because I'm in a position to help
people to use money as a tool to have joy,
to have a return on joy, as a tool to
have experiences, and use it to you know, love and
enjoy the people around them. And when you look at
(33:32):
life through that lens, it becomes so much sweeter. So
stop checking boxes and enjoy life. Enjoy those experiences because
life is short.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
That's phenomenal advice.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
And if I said, probably need to take myself so definitely,
definitely a good baceet.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
I want to thank you so much for coming on
the podcast. Jack.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Honestly, you are so wise and just so lovely to
talk to. I feel like our conversation was just like
effortless and I so appreciate your time, So thank you
so much again.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
Thank you and check us out ally money roots dot com.
The sessions are all free.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Yeah, I feel I know. I was just about to
say that I feel like I need to do money
and love. I'm like gonna make Tom do it with me,
gonna make him sit down? It would be I think
it would be like super helpful for us, so I
appreciate it. I will make sure that I leave links
in the description below for where you can find Jack
and all her work and where you can do money
in Love. But if you enjoyed this episode as well,
(34:27):
make sure that you subscribe, make sure you give us
a five star review, and check us out on Instagram
at that Psychology podcast if you want to, you know,
suggest some episodes, have some feedback, have your own questions
of how money and love of intersective for you, prenup's marriage,
any of those things. I would love to hear it.
Until next time, stay safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself.
(34:49):
We will talk very very soon.
Hello everybody, I'm Jemma Spake and welcome back to the
Psychology of Your Twenties, the podcast where we talk through
the biggest changes, moments, and transitions of our twenties and
what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back
(00:24):
to the show. Welcome back to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Wherever you are in the world, New.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Listeners, old listeners, it is so great to have you here,
back for another amazing guest episode. If I had to
pick two categories that I think I get the most
questions about when it comes to our twenties, it would
no doubt be love and money.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
And although we.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Might view those as separate topics, separate ideas, they are
actually deeply linked. How we think about money. It affects
how we date, who we date, how our love stories
turn out, and how we think about love will impact
what money problems, money issues, money value differences we may overlook.
(01:14):
So today let's talk about the intersection of money relationships
and psychology, everything from prenups to how much you should
spend on a wedding, if and when you should get
joint bank accounts, and why you really need to understand
your money story to really show up in your relationship.
(01:36):
Of course, I am not a financial expert, but I
do have someone joining me today who is and who
is not only a financial expert, but an expert in
love and money.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Let's get into.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
It without further ado, Jack Howard, welcome to the podcast.
Welcome to the Psychology of your twenties.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Thank you, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
We were just talking about this. Have the most disparate
time zones. You're in Detroit, I'm in Sydney, and we've
managed to make it work.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
So thank you, thank you.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
The power of technology is working for us in this moment.
It's what six o'clock, six pm here in deturating. I
know it's morning for you. So you're just getting your
day started and I'm about to wrap it up.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I know it looks pretty good. In the future, I
will say the seventh of November, which is why I'm
recording this, which is tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Thank you, it's a good day.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Before I go any further, because I'm going to just
jump into my questions and I need the listeners to
know a little bit more about you and who you
are and your amazing work.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
So I'm Jack Howard.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
I serve as head of Money wellness for Ally Bank,
and I bet you're thinking, like.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
What is that?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
What title is that? Never heard of it before?
Speaker 4 (02:46):
And it's a really amazing role that I've been in
for about two years. I've had the pleasure of working
for ally for fifteen years in various roles, everything from
our corporate giving I focused on financial education for underserved
communities and corporate giving and employee volunteerism. I did that
(03:07):
for a big chunk of my time, and then I
moved to our invest business where I did a stretch
role as chief of staff for the president there and
decided to stay and help launch our personal advice business,
where you work with a personal wealth advisor to help
you to think through retirement. And it was during that
(03:30):
piece of my career where I was introduced to money psychology.
When you're better aligned to your values, your emotions, and
really understand the behaviors that you have behind some of
your money decisions, it.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Just helps you to stick to the plan.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
And I fell in love with it so much because
one of the questions we would ask is what is
your first memory of money? And for me professionally and personally,
it was such an amazing question because it answered so
much from the work that I had done in financial
literacy to even personally the ups and downs that I've
(04:10):
had with money, of really understanding the why behind your
money decisions, the skills that you try to implement a
lot of people just have a hard time implementing the
skills even though you know the right thing to do.
So I was in that role for a bit and
again I fell in love with the money psychology so
much that I went to our leadership and said, you know,
(04:30):
I think this is really the future of how people
will talk about money. I think it's the future of
how banks will interact with customers.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
So less of the skills.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Yes, you have to know how to save, how to invest,
I can teach you how to do a budget, all
those things, but really understanding that those emotions and the
behaviors that will help you to implement the skills. Having
a better relationship with money. I think it's the future
of how we will talk about it. And they said, okay,
(05:01):
prove it, and I was given the opportunity to start
this role, and most recently we created a free financial
wellness program called Money Roots, where we teach again having
a better relationship with money with four different workshops, and
I'm sure we'll get into that more, but that's kind
of been my journey and that's my current role.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
My God, I love how you've just done so many
different things, like and how it's all just linked back
to this. What it sounds like, this like desire to
understand people better through how like money is a tool
for them, right, and it's like psychological element of it.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
And you know, I think it's stemmed from in my twenties.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
I was a horrible at money, and I graduated from
college with about thirty thousand dollars in student loan debt
and credit card that and from graduating really became passionate
about just having a better understanding of the skill based
side of money, specifically with credit cards. But as time continued,
(06:08):
I was in this hamster wheel of.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Making money, creating credit card debt, and then paying it off.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
So I did that through my thirties and it really
wasn't until this money psychology piece of my financial journey
and professional journey where I really got to the root
of why do I do this?
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Why do I do the.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Things that I do with money? And now I can
put up guardrails to you know, help me to be
more successful. So it's definitely been a journey and one
that I'm so excited to share with everybody else.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
I have a question for you about that piece you
just mentionined. You graduated college, you had this debt at
the time. What do you think your biggest money mistake was.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
I think think my biggest so mine is deeply rooted
in my money story. My biggest mistake then is just
not realizing, specifically for the credit card debt, why I
was creating credit card debt. And for me it was
grounded and a lot of emotional spending, which we're.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Seeing in young people still.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
We have this fear of missing out and social media
you want to keep up with other people. But for me,
it was emotional spending from childhood beliefs that I had
learned from society and my parents. All of those things
created this version of me where I would spend and
create debt. So I think the biggest lesson I've learned
(07:40):
that I wish I would have known then is that
there is no amount of money that can solve your
issues when you need therapy, right when you need emotional
support for things.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
No, there's no purse, there's no vacation.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
When you have some root issues that require a deal support,
you have to address that, and oftentimes, like with money
or food, we will use these things to serve as
a distraction. So I would tell myself, you know, let's
get rid of the distractions, really address some of our
root issues so that we can now show up better
(08:18):
with our relationship with money.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Speaking of relationships, what we really what I really want
to talk to you about today is the intersection between
money and relationships in our twenties, around marriage, yes, but
also just around financial compatibility and how money actually impacts
love in many many ways. Let's start with this question.
(08:45):
How important is financial compatibility in a relationship?
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Okay, so I love this question.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
One of the classes that we teach in money Roots.
It's it's really it's called love and money where we
go deep into the very thing you just said, We
go deep into for you and your romantic partner. What
are the beliefs that you have and your partner has.
What are the things that you learned about money from
(09:15):
your family and from society?
Speaker 3 (09:19):
And then how does this show up in your relationship?
Speaker 4 (09:22):
So most people don't have compatibility, you will have, you know,
for whatever reason.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Opposite to track.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
You may have the spender and the saverer, a nurturer,
or somebody who's an avoid We all have these money personalities,
so one is important to know kind of what your
personality is. But I want everyone to avoid shame around
(09:49):
whatever your money personality is. So I'll be honest and say,
for me and my partner, who I've been with since
I graduated from college, we he is.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
More of a sp more of a saver.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
I'm more of a spender, and I think throughout my twenties,
I had so much shame around being a spender, and
I want it to be frugal like.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Him, but that's not who I am.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I'm a spender.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
I'm a spender.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
So it wasn't until I got to a place of
understanding through your money story, through really getting very aligned
with your money values. That's where having compatibility can come
into play, because you can be opposites. But when you
understand your partner's money story, you understand your partner's values,
(10:37):
it creates empathy for the differences, so it's less about
your frugal and cheap and I'm a spender and you
know you know you're overspending on everything the bumping of
heads to more of Oh I understand why she is
that way, I understand why he is that way, And
now we're able to come together as a couple and
(10:58):
create compatibility. Now we can come together without shame, with
empathy to say, knowing that you're this person, I'm this person,
how do we move forward together to create our own
value system around money? And that's actually something that we
teach in our Money Roots class, the Love and Money.
We actually take you through understanding what that personality is,
(11:21):
what your values are, and then how do we move
forward to create something together.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
When you were talking about your partner, I was like, Oh,
that's a familiar story. Me and maybe partner are the same. Yeah,
it's always been that way for me, Like money was. Again,
it's just such an emotional thing, and so of course
it's going to be like reflected and show up in
your relationship. And of course it's going to be times
when like what is it? Like money is the thing
(11:48):
that couples argue about the most. What I'm hearing you
say is like you don't necessarily have to change all
that much. You just have to understand and find the
middle ground of like what are we responsible for in
this relationship.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
Is that what you're kind of saying, Yeah, So no,
I think yeah, definitely finding the middle ground and guardrails.
So for me, knowing that I am a spender, I
have to deeply attach my spending to my values. So
I'm a huge proponent of value spased spending.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
And what that means is.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
I know my top values are really beautiful things, authenticity,
generational wealth, and really my spirituality. So when I anchor,
and that's a part of money wellness and money well being,
when you're able to anchor your spending, saving and giving
to your values, you get a higher return on what
(12:44):
I like to say, or higher return on joy. So
for me, I know that if a spending, if I'm
spending and it doesn't attach to those values, pause, let's
pause and give it forty eight hours.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
You know, is that black pair of pants beauty full enough?
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Does it meet the requirement of my value of really
beautiful things? Does it meet my requirement for generational wealth?
And that has stopped me in my tracks. I'll be honest,
that has stopped me in my tracks with buying things
because I'll give myself that pause of does this meet
my values?
Speaker 3 (13:17):
And once you start.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
Spending from a place of this has to meet my values,
it increases your well being with money. And then on
the other side from my partner, who is more frugal,
now we're looking at it like money is a tool
for enjoyment. So we got to have a splurge account.
We have a splurge account. So it forces him to
now say, yes, we're going to save, but we're also
(13:40):
going to enjoy the money. We've set money aside to
where if I want to, you know, spend one hundred
dollars on cookies because that's my latest obsession, and he
wants to spend one hundred dollars on legos because that's
his latest subception, that's okay because we both have that
wiggle room within our budget to do so. So again,
creating those structures within your relationship to make that happen,
(14:05):
and it's also known how to have the conversation. I
think that's a big piece that people are missing.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Which I feel like we can get into it in
a second. I want to ask another question on this though,
before we do, which is, how do you deal with
inequality in earnings when you're in a long term relationship
or you're in a just a relationship in your twenties
and beyond what happens when one partner makes significantly more
(14:35):
money or significantly less money. How do we kind of
handle that conversation.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Yeah, I think we have to have transparency. I've talked
to people where they'll do a split based off of
percentages and that's how what you put in. And some
people want it to make it fifty to fifty because
it makes them feel like they're showing up and it
may make you feel powerful. Again, we got to understand
the story behind that and what is preference for you
as an individual. So having the transparency one of I
(15:03):
love to say money date nights. So I'm a big
fan of less schedule money date nights where we can
meet once per week at minimum once per month to
talk about these things and create these guidelines and go
into it having topics of are we going to have
joint accounts or sweat accounts? Are we going to how
are we going to pay the bills? How are we
(15:23):
going to be compatible with our values and our beliefs.
So I think the first step is to just have
these conversations and setting time aside to do so.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Yeah, and also just being incredibly realistic about like can
you if this person has a certain lifestyle, could you
keep up, like can you keep up with what they
want to do and what they want to spend with
still doing the fifty to fifty thing or with you wanting.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
To pay your fanst sht.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Like I do feel like I have a couple of
friends who are relationships like this. Specifically, I'm thinking about
one friend who she makes a lot more and her
partner and he was always like adamant, like no, we're
going to split everything fifty to fifty. And it was like, well,
then we can't do the things that I actually want
to do in a relationship.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
So it was like this.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Real It actually got very like complex with them. It
was like ideas of masculinity and like power and equality,
but then also like enjoyment and experiences and like what
matters more to their relationship, like that they can continue
to play the role that they think they should play
in a relationship, or they can have fun with each
other with the cards the adults, So like, it does get.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
Very very complex, and I just want to call out
everything you just said has nothing to do with money exactly.
It's nothing money you talked about No, you talked about
gender roles and enjoyment and how do we want to
have experiences together? Has nothing to do with money. That's
(16:55):
a completely separate conversation. So the problem is we don't
have those conversations and then it turns into a blow
up about money. So it's so important when we think
of the money date night and how do we have
productive conversations with your partner to say, my values are
experiences and I do want to travel the world, and
so as a partnership, we should allocate our money in
(17:18):
this way to do these things. But again, it's realizing
that those conversations need to take place, and oftentimes people
just avoid it and you're ending up in an argument.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Oh yeah, again, I'm going to pull back out statistic
that we said at the Star. It's like the biggest
source of conflict in relationships is money. So it's like
when you're in your twenties and you're in your relationship,
it's like this is everybody focuses on, like, oh, let's
talk about our attachment styles and let's talk about our future, like.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Do we want kids?
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Like no, you need to have serious conversations about money
early on. Like, it's actually deeply important you.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
Do you know, the money, the what I love about
the work we're doing here at ally, and just this
whole movement that you're going to see within. I hope
to see more within money psychology and money wellness is
looking at money as a part of your well being.
So when you think of your social wellbeing, so your friendships,
when you think of your community, where do you live
(18:14):
and how do you support it, your career, you think
of your fitness and your health, those are all areas
of well being, and when money is off it impacts
all of that. When you are not satisfied with your money,
we're seeing through our own data that people are up
at night, they can't sleep at night. It's impacting their
romantic partnerships. So it's so important that even starting in
(18:34):
your twenties, you know not to let money be this
static thing, but it is a part of your well
being and to give it its full attention in your relationship.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
It's so important.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Okay, we're going to take a show break. Yeah, but
when we were turning, we're gonna talk about preeing. Ops,
I'm gon talk that.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Okay, let's do it.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
We're gonna talk about weddings, stay with us. Something that
I am so fascinated by is prenups. Why people get them,
what they really mean? Genuinely, I'm going to be completely transparent.
I have no idea what a prenup is. Can you
kind of give us a little bit of an explanation.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
Yeah, So, essentially, it's a legal document that outlines your
finances and your assets.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
What happens to.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
It should the marriage end so we're no longer want
to be together. What do we do with the house,
What do we do with that bank account? All of
those things helps you to think about this before.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
You get to a place of divorce.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
So I look at it as almost insurance for your love.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
So I really want people.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
To shift their perspective about prenups, and we're finding that
in some of our data that is becoming less of
a taboo topic and more of a way for couples
to be transparent.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Yeah, sir, I'm going to ask some really naive questions.
Do do you only need to print up if you
have existing wealth? No?
Speaker 3 (20:05):
And here's why. Here's why.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
So for everybody out there in your twenties, my question
is do you think you will have the same amount
of wealth in your forties and fifties that you have
in your twenties. I'm hoping for most people to answer
is going to be no. So the person that you
are in your twenties, the amount of assets that you
have in your twenties compared to when you're older, it changes.
(20:31):
So I think when you set those guidelines in the beginning,
when you get to a place of it didn't work out.
As you mentioned earlier, money is one of the highest
sources of conflicts in marriages. So if you get to
a place to where this didn't work out and we
want to go our separate ways, you're doing it in
the beginning. And I have experienced this and seen it
with friends. The person you are at the beginning of
(20:53):
your marriage, when you're in love and not emotional, is
a very very different person than who you are when
you are at the place of divorce. It's two different people.
So if you're able to do this at a place
when you're still kind to each other, where you still
have best intentions for each other and you're really I
(21:14):
want to say rational, do it then to where you
don't have to you know you're battling with someone later
when a lot of emotions are involved.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
So this is my second naive question because I totally
agree with you. I feel like i've my parents have
always said and they're still together. But like from seeing
friends of theirs get divorced, like the person you marry
is not the person you divorce and they're two different people.
Does asking you for a prenup put pressure on the relationship?
Speaker 4 (21:43):
You know?
Speaker 1 (21:43):
There's definitely like a skeptical pot in my mind, and
tell and please correct it if it's wrong that says
isn't that just saying like a pot of me doesn't
think we're gonna lost now?
Speaker 4 (21:53):
I think we need to shift that that mindset and
really look at it from we're at a place now
where people are more transparent about their finances. People have
especially in your twenties and thirties, you're coming into your
relationship with more assets, so you may have children, all
those things. So really understanding that this is again insurance
(22:14):
should things not work out, and it's a way for
us to be transparent.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
And it's also if it helps.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
I love that it creates a level set of where
are we with our finances? Because in order to have
a pre nup, you have to understand your assets and liabilities.
You have to get all these things on paper for
both you and your partner. So it allows you to
do that level set. So I don't think I want
us to shift that and look at it as less
about we're doomed and all of that, and be realistic
(22:41):
with the stats of what divorce and all those things
are and saying that while we are kind to each
other and have sound decision making and not high emotions,
let's just do this now to ensure that it's not
a problem later.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah, and I.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
Bet that you won't need it. Let's say that it's
just insurance. Yeah, I like this.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Idea insurance for your love. Like you don't buy a
house insurance thinking that you're gonna set your house on file.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
You know what, I don't buy any case, but you
still have it just in case things happen.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
So and I'm hopeful that all marriages last, but in
the event that they don't, just having that as a
backup so that you're not fighting over things later creates
And you know, I also think it creates a better
relationship post the divorce because you didn't have to fight
for all of those things.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
So definitely let's shift.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
How we think about it and allow it to be
a place to create transparency.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
A great topic for money date night.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah, very good topic. That's maybe things.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
So I have a bunch of friends who are getting married.
I'm like, I feel like you get to this point
in your twenties where it's like a wedding every weekend.
Some of them are getting a lot, some of them
are spending a lot of money on the wedding. And
I saw an article that said this has been no judgment.
I really I don't know enough, but this article that
said the more you spend on your wedding, the more
(24:05):
likely you are to get divorced. This is an entry
point for me to ask you how much do you
think couples should.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Spend on their wedding?
Speaker 1 (24:15):
And which I know you might not have an answer for,
but do you see maybe a correlation between spending more
and not putting strain on the relationship.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Let me say this, I think that.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
From my personal I'll just use my personal experience and
what I think people should do and get it. Having
this get back to your values as a couple. As
a young couple, I think it's so important to get
very aligned on what your values are individually and what
your values would be as a couple, and that includes
what do we want this wedding to be. So I'm
(24:52):
not going to shame that your values may be having
a large wedding because you have a big family and
it's celebratory and may be a part of your culture.
But for someone else it may be that they're having
a smaller wedding and more intimate ceremony. Is who they
are really honing in on what you want as a couple,
I think is so important and not getting pulled into
what you mentioned, like you know, I think a lot
(25:14):
of this is, like you know, fear of missing out.
You want to keep up with what your friends. All
of your friends are having big weddings, so you should
have a big wedding. We tend to follow what other
people do mindlessly without really understanding who we are and
what we want individually. So with that in mind, I'm
not going to say a dollar amount, but I do
(25:34):
want to say that I think it has to deeply
align to what your values are as a couple, and
when you spend from that point of view, it will
be affordable because you will not do things that are
not affordable for either of you. Who you'll do things
that are that are affordable for both of you, shall
I say?
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (25:53):
And I like this idea of like, see when I
get married, I'm kin for a big wedding and I
have a huge family. I have a huge like Italian
Irish family, Like it's there's no avoiding it. And you know,
my partner also has a huge family who we love.
But yeah, it's just so interesting when you see these
(26:14):
lavish weddings and you think that you need personalized gifts
for everybody and the day and you think that you
need everybody, like the wedding becomes more about other people
than about you. That's what a lot of my friends
who have spent my time in their wedding said that
they regretted.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
And again, I like that you're bringing.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
It back to values, right, It's like this is about
you two showing your love for each other. Yes, like
your family and friends are involved, but like it's not
their wedding. Like I think, the more you can spend
on the enjoyment for yourself and the things that you like,
this is what I'm seeing for my friends who are
planning weddings, who are having a good time versus those
(26:54):
who are having like a bad time.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Yeah, and you're you're doing it for love. We got
to get back to that.
Speaker 4 (27:00):
You're doing it because you're marrying your partner who you love,
and you want to have an amazing experience with the
people who support that love. And that could be as
simple or elaborate as you want it to be. But again,
like you mentioned, understanding specifically for you, what do you
and your partner want, and not just following the crowd
(27:23):
because that becomes expensive.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Oh my god, yeah, I yes, I've seen it. It
becomes so expensive. And I was like, I had a
friend and she weren't mind me talking about this where
she was like, we spent all this money on like
extra desserts for the.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Guests and then they didn't eat them.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
They didn't eat them. Yeah, they didn't eat them.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
And she was like, oh, like this was such a
big detail that I really I was so stressed about
coordinating how these were going to get there, and like
lah lah, And she was like and I asked her,
I was like, how much, tell me, truthfully, how much
did you spend on Like I think she was like
the cocktails and the dessert and she was like over
(28:04):
three thousand dollars and I was like, that's and she's like,
I just wish we'd just like that's. That could have
been like part of our honeymoon fund, you know what
I mean. So yeah, I like that you you bring
back to values.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
I think also as brides or in life, in life,
we can get so caught up in perfect moments. Yeah,
you have this, you know, you envision what this day
will be and it should be perfect, but we all
know life is not perfect. Things, something's going to go
wrong that day, very small, you know, and just creating
(28:37):
space for that day going into it to know that
why am I here? Why am I here? And what
are my values for doing this? And it helps you
to not really sweat the small stuff of the day
because those things will come up.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
You know, you spent more on the end, Your guests
won't know. That's the other thing.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
Your guests will have no idea that you didn't buy
more desserts, you know, or you didn't have that extra decoration.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
They will never know. Again, they're there to support your love,
so let that be the focus.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Yeah. I love that.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
One final money dilemma that we see in relationships is
shared bank accounts. What do you think about people who
are in early stages of their relationship, maybe they've just
moved in together, getting a shared bank account.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Is it safer at the beginning to just.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Continue to spend separately or is it wise to kind of,
you know, get that extra interest or combine finances for convenience.
What have you seen that kind of works for couples.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
Yeah, So I'm going to give you a little bit
of data and then a little bit of just what
I'm seeing from the.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
World we live in. So I've had the pleasure.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
I did a graduate certification in Financial Health and Wellness
from Texas Tech, the Financial Planning School, and there I
learned through one of our you know, literature reviews that
technically relationships where you share bank accounts are better because
of the transparency. So you just have more transparency within
(30:10):
the relationship, you're more aligned. However, I think we also
have to take into account that people are getting married later,
they have more assets, so it's it may be difficult
to come in and share everything. So again, I think
this is a conversation to where do we have depending
(30:31):
on your assets and the level of comfort that you have,
I think you want to have.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
I think the key here is transparency. That's what I
think the key is.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
So is it that we have certain views of each
other's accounts When we have a money date night, do we.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
Talk about our accounts if they're separate.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
But I do want to take into account that some
people just come into relationships with more assets, so separating
things may be difficult.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
So keeping that in mind.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
The key again is the transparency to where we're not
hiding money when we're getting to financial infidelity things like that.
So we want to have that transparency to ensure that
we know what the assets are. We know we've agreed
upon if we're going to share or not. I personally
am a fan of I have my own account, my
(31:19):
partner has his own account, and then we have one
account where we share.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
Our expenses are shared expenses. That works for me.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
But again, have that conversation so that you can go
into it knowing what each person feels comfortable with. But
according to the academic data, when you share it, it
helps your relationship.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
I love how I love this conversation and I'm so
grateful for all the advice you're giving us on like
the well juicy controversial pots of money and relationships. I
have one final question for you. It's the question we
ask all of our guests, which is, what is one
piece of advice you have for people in the twenties
that has nothing to do with what we talked about today,
(32:00):
Nothing to do with money, nothing to do with relationships.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
Even, Oh my goodness, what would I tell twenty year
old Jacqueline life is short and enjoy the people that
you love. Life is short, and enjoy the people that
you love. Because you know, I'm forty four, I'll be
forty five in March, and over the years, I'm also
a breast cancer survivor, so there's layers to that too.
Of you get to a place of For me in
(32:26):
my twenties, a lot of my twenties was about checking boxes.
So it was graduate from college check, get married, check,
have kids check, you know, have my retirement accounts check.
And then when I was diagnosed with breast cancer at thirty,
and with that, it really reset who I was as
(32:48):
a person to really understand that I'm here to have
experiences with the people that I love, and when you
when you live life from that standpoint, a lot of
these small things like we're talking about decorations at a
wedding or did I get enough desserts. When you look
at life through that lens, it becomes so much more joyful.
(33:10):
And that's one of the reasons why I love my
work at ALLY, because I'm in a position to help
people to use money as a tool to have joy,
to have a return on joy, as a tool to
have experiences, and use it to you know, love and
enjoy the people around them. And when you look at
(33:32):
life through that lens, it becomes so much sweeter. So
stop checking boxes and enjoy life. Enjoy those experiences because
life is short.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
That's phenomenal advice.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
And if I said, probably need to take myself so definitely,
definitely a good baceet.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
I want to thank you so much for coming on
the podcast. Jack.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Honestly, you are so wise and just so lovely to
talk to. I feel like our conversation was just like
effortless and I so appreciate your time, So thank you
so much again.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
Thank you and check us out ally money roots dot com.
The sessions are all free.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Yeah, I feel I know. I was just about to
say that I feel like I need to do money
and love. I'm like gonna make Tom do it with me,
gonna make him sit down? It would be I think
it would be like super helpful for us, so I
appreciate it. I will make sure that I leave links
in the description below for where you can find Jack
and all her work and where you can do money
in Love. But if you enjoyed this episode as well,
(34:27):
make sure that you subscribe, make sure you give us
a five star review, and check us out on Instagram
at that Psychology podcast if you want to, you know,
suggest some episodes, have some feedback, have your own questions
of how money and love of intersective for you, prenup's marriage,
any of those things. I would love to hear it.
Until next time, stay safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself.
(34:49):
We will talk very very soon.
Host
Jemma Sbeghen
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