January 5, 2023 • 46 mins
This week I bring on a special guest and a close friend, artist Sydney Farey, to discuss the horrors and surprises of dating in our 20’s. We discuss the psychology behind why we are attracted to the wrong people, the impact of our childhood and early relationships on our romantic lives and how to prioritise yourself whilst we date during our 20’s.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hello, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,
the podcast where we talk through some of the big
life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they
mean for our psychology. Welcome back to the show. Welcome
back to another episode. It is so great to have
(00:26):
you here. New listeners, old listeners. I am so pumped
for today's episode because we have a fantastic, amazing guest
joining us to talk about this week's topic. Hi Sydney,
Hi Gemma, how are you. I'm amazing, How are you?
I'm so good? Thank you for agreeing to come on board.
(00:47):
It's my pleasure if actually been wanting to do this
for a while, a long time. Yeah, I might just
give you a bit more of an introduction, please, sir,
because I feel like we're already just having a chit
chat away. So, Sydney is one of my one of
my closest, closest friends. You didn't know his name. It's specifrocated,
it's mutual. Yeah, thank hope. So yeah, yeah, I think
(01:08):
we're good. But Sydney, you are Do you want to
explain what you do? How we met before we jump in? Sure? Um,
my name is Sydney, like the city. Um, currently I
reside in Melbourne and I I'm a tattoo artist among
many other things. I always have different creative pursuits happening,
but predominantly I'm a tattoo riters. I run a creative
(01:29):
publication called Sweden Sour that centers around Asian Australian identities.
I also work in consulting a little bit, do some
freelance graphic design. And I'm a trained printmaker, which is
what I studied. And Gemma and I met in Canberra.
How long ago was that? Two years? Three years years ago?
(01:49):
And um we met through well we actually met like
at a party randomly before the start of COVID, and
then COVID happened. We didn't stay in touch. But Sydney,
as you could have probably heard and seen, is a
jack of many trades, jack of many trades, jacob all
all of them, well pretty much all of them, thank you.
(02:12):
Has so many different amazing things that she does. And
through her publication the Sweet and Sour zine Zione Zne
whatever you want to Yeah, both work, Yeah, both are correct.
The publication, she was running a life drawn class and
I went to it and I went up she was
like Hi, I don't know if you remember me, and
(02:32):
you were like oh, hey, like how are you? And
then the rest is really history, and we are here
today to talk about something we talk about quite a
bit long way around each other, and like not in
the way that we're like, oh like boys, boys boys, Yeah,
Oh no, no, I don't think in this like that.
And even if it was like who gives them? I
(02:56):
love boys and I hate them, and that's literally it's
about the nuances of hating and loving the opposite gender
for romantic purposes. But what we really want to talk
about is like a lot of things, why we can
really struggle with dating in our twenties, why we fall
in love with the wrong people, why we date the
(03:19):
wrong people, how we attract these like the same kind
of individuals. I feel like it's something that a lot
of us have to learn in our twenties. Um, maybe
you don't. Maybe you found your person and that's it.
In congratulations if that's you, But for most of us,
I would say, you find the people that you truly
love and the type of person you truly love through
a lot of trial and error. Would you agree, yes, yes, yes,
(03:43):
And it's hard and it's exhausting, Yeah, but I think
it's it's always worth it. Yeah, I would say so
hasn't to be honest, hasn't been worth it for me
so far? Well, I think you'll reflect back on that
in five or ten years and realize that of all
the shitty things that have happened to you in your
dating life have made it worth have you know? It worthwhile?
Worth while? Yeah? Even this year. Actually, I think that
(04:04):
I was like dating someone at the end of last year,
and the amount of like growth that came out of
that was ridiculous, Like he like completely broke my heart
and it was like terrible for some time. Yeah, and
then I was like, fuck, I just like completely became
a different person. Like with all that, I think it
(04:26):
left me feeling so insecure. I had like the lowest
self esteem I think I've ever had, and I couldn't
like jump into a new relationship to fix it, so
I had to do it all myself. And now, like
the person I was twelve months ago, I don't know.
I don't think. I don't think much of her exists anymore.
What about you learn any lessons from this year? You
(04:49):
find quite a few lessons, I feel like it's been
a busy year, a few year in terms of dating. Yeah, wait,
don't they say that your cells like not regenerate, but
like they die and then they yea regenerate every twelve
months or something like that. So so literally the person
you're a twelve years ago physically it doesn't exist anymore,
(05:11):
which I think is an interesting metaphor for what you
just said. Oh my god. Yeah, but it's so funny
because like even though those cells don't still exist, right, like,
all those memories still do. Yeah, like you can't get
rid of that. Yeah, I'm like, yeah, whoa, whoa, a
real serious science on this episode because I do not understand.
(05:31):
I don't understand that. Yeah, if the cells that hold
those memories don't exist, and how do those memories still exist?
It's fucking the demon. The demon is at work in
our mind. Damn well, I like that is actually such
a good point. I think it's also the thing with blood, right,
like all your blood. M I guess it's still the cells. Yeah,
actually I do know the answer to this. Ner neurons,
(05:52):
your sign apses. They actually the cells within them might regenerate,
but you can never have more neurons than you were
born with, which is why like doing hardcore like drugs
or like when if someone is an alcoholic can be
so especially in their infancy or not infancy, but like
in the early teens or late teens can be so
damaging because you never get more neurons than you're born with,
(06:16):
which is why I guess like our memories stay so
permanent because either you like completely damage your brain and
you get amnesia and then you can forget about whatever
it is that haunts you, or you don't and you're anyhow,
there's the science behind it. I feel like that was
kind of like a patchwork explanation. Yeah, yeah, we got further,
(06:37):
Yeah we did so lessons I should have written the list.
I have so many like TikTok saved or it's like
things I wish I knew about dating in my twenties
and things I learned from dating this year, and I
have my favorite ones. I should have written down less
of my favorite ones. Yeah, can you remember when it's
like particularly like, yeah, I think, um, I think one
(07:00):
thing that's really stuck out. Okay, two things really stick
out to me when when you ask me that question.
Two kind of statements. The first one We've heard this
a million times, and I think we all try and
convince ourselves to believe it, but a lot of us don't.
If if he wanted to, he would. And the second
statement is, um, why are we having relationship problems that
people were not in a relationship with? Oh? And I
(07:22):
feel like both of those things really encapsulate my my
dating life of twenty twenty, which is kind of sad
when those two statements aren't exactly positive, But I really, yeah,
I really think those accurately reflect reflect my life. I
think through all, I've dated a lot of men in
twenty twenty, like a lot and twenty my bad. I've
(07:43):
dated a lot of men in twenty twenty two, And
in twenty twenty twenty, I was in a relationship, so
I didn't date a lot of man. I dated a
lot of men in twenty twenty two, and I think
so many times I was willing to give them the
benefit of the doubt. I was willing to give him
a second chance. And I really believed that you know,
(08:04):
a lot of these men maybe were the one, and
that they really really cared for me and loved me
even and I saw the best in them, and I
kept giving them second chances and thinking that you know,
they would not not I didn't want them to change,
but perhaps I held on to the hope that they
would realize that, you know, I was a really good person.
Then they wanted to be, you know, have something with me.
(08:24):
And they told me they wanted in whatever. But I think, seriously,
if he wanted to, he would. I think people say
they're not ready for a relationship, but if you really
do love someone, in value someone that you want to
be in a relationship with them, you'll make it work
no matter what, no matter what. I completely agree with
that statement, Like, if they wanted to, they would. Yeah,
I did see this like turnament that was like if
(08:46):
they know, then they should, like if they know what
you expect, then they should reciprocate him, and if they don't,
well then they're definitely not the right person. But I
honestly believe this because I think about my own perspective
towards dating. When I really care about someone, like I
am willing to give them everything everything, yeah, and probably
(09:09):
more than I can give, more than they probably deserve
from me as well. And there have been times in
my life when I've been like I do not want
a relationship. I am so not in the mindset, and
then I meet someone and they are the right person
and I end up dating them for like two years,
and yeah, there is those times at the beginning where
I'm like, oh, I don't know, I don't know, but
(09:29):
not for their like, not for for my sake, for
their sakes, they don't want to hurt them when you really,
like can feel chemistry with someone and you have that
intuition like there really there's no reason why you shouldn't
be right now. Yeah. Yeah, it's a good lesson actually,
And I also just think it's something that I've learned
(09:50):
more the more men I've dated, where I'm like, do
I really want to be dragging you, kicking and screaming
into a relationship with yeah? Yeah, or like begging you
for yeah, or try and convince you or persuade you
or yeah, or do things to make you, you know,
understand that you do want a relationship with me. Yeah, No,
you should just know. Yeah. And it's also just like
(10:12):
you know what your person's probably out there, and if
it's not me, well, I don't think that love should
be made up of so much attention, so much difficulty yeah. No,
I think another lesson I learned from this year is
that things are really quite black and white. Like I
think I made up excuses for lots of people, Like,
you know, i'd see someone and be like, oh, they
(10:33):
would be in a relationship with me if they didn't
have this going on in their life, and they do
really really love me and care for me and want
to be in a relationship with me. But this is happening,
and maybe after that happens, they'll be different, or you know,
this will happen and that will happen. No, it's really
black and white. If they wanted to, they would, if
they wanted me right now, they would be with me. Yeah,
and they wouldn't make up those excuses. Well, I think
about the example, like what you went through in the
(10:54):
last two months, right with that person, and we're okay
to talk about that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I wonder
if you'll listen to the boat. No, I don't wonder
if you will maybe, but yeah, it's fine. I don't care. Well,
if you're listening, you really fumbled the fucking bag, Yeah, bitch,
like that felt so unnatural coming out of on now unnatural?
(11:15):
Well he did, he did. Maybe you called me and
I was like, man, I just had the biggest l
of his life because I think, oh, he does actually
know it a little Christmas message we all see right
through that. There was literally a TikTok I sent you
about that, Yeah, the Christmas message. Yeah, and you know
(11:37):
what he really he really did And it's something that
I've realized more and I hope I think you realized
this as well. The more you mature and grow confident
in yourself and like see your value, the more you're like, wow,
totally you're loss. Yeah, because lately, most of the men
who treat us the worst, those who really have nothing
going for them, like not much. I was thinking about
(12:00):
this the other day. I was like looking at the
splattering of people that have broken my heart, and I
was like, not one of them has accomplished anything that
I could respect compared to you. Yeah, they well, I
don't know if that I think that makes me feel weird.
But without the comparison, right, if it's just not to
(12:22):
be like relative about it, but like absolute, none of
them I like have They had no ambitions, they had
no dreams. Most of them didn't even have like a job,
They didn't have anything they were passionate about and even
if they did, like, they didn't take it very seriously.
They weren't like self motivated, self starters, like none of it.
So what did you see in them? I don't know.
(12:44):
I think I saw a project to be honest, yeah,
or also I just saw what they could give me,
which was like, I want to be loved, and I
think it's a massive thing of mine where it's like
I'm very much willing to actually go against what I
truly believe in some ways to receive affection and to
receive vans something I had to unlearn this year and
(13:06):
I did, I like very actively, was like I can
see the times in the past in which I have
actually undermined my own moral compass. I've borne against my
values because I was so desperate for this person's admiration
and for their love, and the result has been me
feeling like completely distanced from my true self and why
(13:27):
for what? For what reason? Like I think about that
guy I dated at the end of last year, Oh
my god, like I did. I was like, I lost
friends because I chose to be with him. And it's
like what you said, stop having relationship problems with people.
You're not in a relationship with We weren't even like exclusive,
(13:48):
and I still was willing to make those sacrifices. It's
not his fault, definitely not. It's like all on me
for not recognizing that floor myself soon enough, I think,
Like another thing but I really want to talk about it,
is like, why do you think we do date the
wrong people and fall in love with the wrong people
given that we have all of that knowledge, Like we
(14:08):
obviously both quite successful, self starting women who have a
lot of people who love us, who create positive impact,
Like you literally put art on people's bodies that they're
going to have for the rest of their lives. How
crave like that is? Like almost that is so profound
to me when you every time I like see you
at work, so honored to be able to do that. Yeah,
(14:31):
it's incredible. And we know all this about ourselves, right,
Like we know that sometimes we just create affection, we
look past the red flags that as I think successful women,
sometimes we settle a little bit because we're worried that
someone won't ever want this kind of like I don't
know not ever want it, but like we'll feel intimidated
(14:53):
or it's like when you when you're forced to be
strong all the time. Sometimes you just want the soft yeah, yeah, yeah,
Sometimes you just want the gooyiness and like someone just
really giving you a cuddle and like caring about you.
So why do you think it is that we have
historically chosen to date the wrong people? I honestly, I
(15:15):
don't know. Maybe it comes um, maybe it comes from
I think I have a lot of insecurities. Um. I
think they probably stem from things I went through as
a child and maybe the way my parents raised me.
But um, I'm like, what did I read the other day? UM?
(15:36):
I have like I was it someone sent me many
sent me this TikTok and it was like, um, some
of you back, well I was I can't remember. Um. Yeah,
I think I think even though I think logically I
know I'm a successful, you know, businesswoman, I think I'm
(16:01):
a relatively attractive logically, I feel like I shouldn't have
as many insecurities that I do have. Like I am
so incredibly insecure, and I think maybe that plays a
big part in how I date. Because I feel so insecure.
Maybe I don't think that I deserve or have the
(16:23):
capacity to be with somebody who is at my level,
who like I would really want a date and maybe
I'm settling because I just don't believe I could find
anybody better because I am so insecure. Wow, that's sad.
It is sad, but I think it makes sense, right.
I saw I read this article the other day and
it was like a lot of the time, the reason
(16:45):
why we get like the ick from people who like
us too much just because we believe so deeply that
we are not deserving of that love that we push
them away, which is a big thing, right, Like totally
you're like I also I think similarly, like in a
very levein as people who you know, work really hard
and have pretty big dreams that we know are going
(17:07):
to require a lot of agency. We often see it
as the case of like when I have to work
harder for something, it's more valuable. Yeah. I think about
this all the time. Yeah, so it's like, Okay, I
think when the way I was raised was like if
it's easy, then everyone can do it, and you don't
want the thing that everyone has, Like you want to
(17:28):
be you know, you want to do something different and
you want to really be good at something different and
be able to touch people's lives in a way that like,
it's not everyone can do that, and you have to
work really hard. So now it's like been ingrained to me.
It's like, well, if something is easy, it's not worth having.
Like in every other facet of our lives, we have
to work really hard and put in a lot of effort.
(17:49):
So that mentality then bleeds into our dating life when
we have someone who's there who like, is really obsessed
with us, who really likes us, where like, oh, this
seems a little bit too good to be true, and
I'm not used to getting something like this for free,
and you push it away, you push it away. And
then then when there's someone that you have to work
(18:09):
when they you know you don't feel deserving of their
love because they push you away because they play hard
to get or because they're quite cold or hostile will
never give you what you want. You're like, well, this
is what I want because obviously, like the best things
in life aren't easy, so you know, this should be
something that I that I work for. I think that
(18:30):
as a mentality that we often have very unconsciously, but
we don't realize. I've I honestly think that's a big
explanation for my dating choices. Yeah, that's how we get
stuck in these situations because you're like, it's also sorry,
sunk costs as well, sunk well sunk costs. So it's like, okay, say,
(18:52):
for example, you buy like a really expensive pair of
boots and then they break. You're like, you're not just
going to throw them out because you already invested that
money in them. Yeah, so you are going to pay
that additional forty dollars to you know, get the heel fixed,
and then the typer breaks, You're not going to throw
them out. You are going to pay additional money, and
it keeps piling up because you've made that initial investment
(19:13):
that was so intense that you're like, I don't want
to I've sunk that money into this already. I don't
want to lose that initial money, but actually end up
spending more money than you probably would have if you
just bought a new pair. And that's what it's like
with relationships. For example, you're like dating someone you're like
two months in and you're like, fuck, like, I've already
told my friends about this guy. Yeah, I've wasted two
(19:34):
months on like getting to know him. Yeah, I've invested,
you know, time and energy and money into going on dates,
into doing fun things, and now he doesn't want the
same thing. But I'm not going to give up because
I've already put all of this effort. I have all
these sunk costs in this relationship, So I'm just going
to keep throwing my time and energy at it and
hoping that it turns around, when really it would be
(19:54):
better just to dump them right there and then and there.
You've lost two months of time, just move on. Yeah,
you know, it's not a great situation, Like, it's probably
not the outcome that you wanted, but you're actually going
to end up losing more if you keep going, and
it's very unlikely that you're going to get the outcome
that you want. Have you felt that way? Does that
make sense? Yeah? Yeah, the way you've explained that makes
(20:16):
so much sense. Yeah. Actually, it's like gambling. Like when
people gamble, they're like, you know, I've already like put
in two thousand dollars on the Pokeys, but if I
put ten dollars and I might be able to win
it all back. Yeah, that's mine. How do you change
that thinking? Um? I think I don't really know. I
guess it's like a conscious thing you have to be
(20:37):
really really like explicit about and very much pay attention to.
But I think your point before about like your childhood
that also plays a role in whether or not you're
going to I don't want to say like fall, but
like be vulnerable to these kind of psychological inner workings. Yeah, so, like,
what do you think it was about how your parents
(20:58):
raised you? Oh god, oh my god. We're actually sitting
on a couch right now, so it's very Freudian like back,
tell me about your childhood trauma. Um, well, I don't
really know what a successful relationship looks like or a
successful marriage. I suppose rather, my parents got divorced when
(21:20):
I was four. My entire extended family everyone's been through
a divorce, everyone's remarried. Um, nobody in my life really has.
I don't think. I I can't really think of anybody
in my um like close circle of friends and family
who isn't a successful relationship, a long term relationship. No,
(21:40):
actually that's not true. I've uncles and aunts who are
like reading right now pretty far like yeah, and also,
how often do you see your uncle's and aunts? Yeah?
Not that often? But my mom's been divorced twice and
now she's fiercely independent and single. My dad only got
remarried last year, after um twenty years of being single.
He's just been remarried again. He's been dating his whole life.
(22:03):
He seems happy now. But um, I don't know, like
my my mom, so I felt m completely unattractive and undateable,
and I guess unfuckable when I was like since I
was a teenager, since since puberty, and I didn't think
I deserved um anyone's love. I didn't think I was
(22:27):
attractive enough to like, um, be with anybody. And my
mom I always told me I was fat, and she
always criticized my physical appearance a lot, to the point
where my sister developed and eating disorder. And yeah, she
was relatively toxic when I was younger in the way
that she raised me. She's she's good now, I mean
(22:48):
somewhat good, Like we have a pretty good relationship. But
I think she didn't give me a lot of like
physical affection and didn't express her love to me in
a tangible way when I was younger, because I mostly
grew up with her from when I was twelve years
old to like twenty one, twenty two, and she never
really touched me or hugged me or told me that
(23:09):
she loved me. And so as soon as it like
the first time a man like told me that I
felt I was hot or wanted to go on a
date with me, I clung onto that like so deeply,
because then I then I realized I was lovable and
that I could receive love and affection from people. And
then I just began to crave that so much because
I never got that in my childhood from my mother.
(23:31):
And then I became like a serial dater and I
just needed to be with men. I remember the first
or second year I started dating, I was just I
needed to be with people all the time. And the
intimacy that I found through sex and through dating men, yeah,
like filled that hole metaphorically and physically, Yeah, inside me.
(23:52):
The whole left. Yeah that my mother didn't like couldn't fail.
And I think I like to send I think that's
why I date shitty men still, because it stems all
the way back from the way my mother treated me,
from me like craving that in men like now I'm
more aware of it, and I'm more conscious of it
(24:12):
and it's and I'm slowly changing and dating with more
clarity and more consciously dating. But I do think there's
still a part of me that that still craves that
love and that care that I feel like my mother
didn't adequately provide me, and that I now find in men. Wow,
pretty profound. I think that you're but I honestly think
(24:34):
you're spot on. You reckon. Yeah, I think you just
have a lot of credit as well for moving past that.
It's a pretty like. The wounds from childhood are pretty
hard to to heal on our own, they are, and
you've done a pretty amazing job. Yeah, our childhood has
such a significant impact on how we approach romantic relationships
later in life. Whatever it may be, like that that
(24:57):
instance of your sister is so hard to hear, because
I'm sure all of us, in some way or another
have some niggling little insecurity or mistreatment or trauma from
childhood that we just can't seem to shake. It's still there. Yeah, Like,
I think I had a similar thing to what you
(25:17):
were saying, where I never felt like anyone found me
attractive when I was younger, and I never felt particularly
like lovable, Like no one really ever showed interest in
me at all compared to all the other girls because
I was like pretty nerdy and I kind of like
stuck to myself a little bit, and I was like, yeah,
(25:38):
I was a bit of a nerd and I didn't
like go out and party or do anything like that.
Like I wanted to read and make art and like
you know, go to book club and play basketball. Like
I was. I was a loser. But I love that.
I love that I was a loser because look about
how it's turned out. I moved away from home when
I was eighteen and like completely created a new life
for myself that I love. But that early experience where
(26:02):
everyone else around you is dating, it's having like their
first sexual experiences, is like having these early romantic experiences.
When you feel like you're missing out on those, you
get your your you get older, and suddenly you're like, okay,
I want that now, and you begin to collect because
(26:23):
it's like every time you receive that affection that you
never got in those early like teen years, those formative
teen years, it feels initially like it's healing you, like
it's giving them either thing that you've always done it. Yeah, yeah,
it's intense. I'm sure did you find that like that first? Yeah? Yeah,
And I'm sure it didn't mean as much to the
man showing, you know, to me, it felt it was
(26:45):
much more important to me than it was to him.
But yeah, and it probably probably didn't mean anything, but
to me it meant everything. Ever, and then they clung
onto that so much more. And every time someone a
new person shows you that, it just it It kind
of not so much reaffirms, but it, I don't know,
it like pushes aside that belief that you have for like,
I'm not lovable, and every time like someone else shows
(27:08):
you that you are, someone else shows you that they
are attracted to you, that they want to have sex
with you, they want to date you, it just like
pushes that that belief. It actually never really addresses its aid. Yeah,
a band aid solution, and then it makes you more
reliant on them as well, which then makes the problem,
I guess, kind of worse. Yeah, absolutely, because you're like, shit,
(27:30):
I didn't actually work on my self esteem in other ways.
I just use this external validation to distract, to distract
me and to put a temporary band aid over this,
like very big wound that it's going to actually impact
me not only just in my dating life but everywhere
else as well. Um, that's definitely something I found. And
then I was like went through I remember in like
my second year of UNI, I was just like went
(27:51):
through like a bit of a hole phase. Yeah, it's
like I just need this, Like this is just like
the most temporarily nourishing thing I could find. It was
like it was like junk food. I was like, yeah,
it's so good and like, yeahm like this is all
I've ever wanted. And then like you wake up the
next day and you're like, oh, I feel so feel terrible.
I feel terrible, and like that insecurity is still there,
(28:13):
especially when it's like it doesn't just become about whether
they find you attractive, it's about whether they can love you.
And then then they don't love you, and then that's
an even bigger insecurity. It's like yeah, sure, I'm like
I'm fuckable and I'm attractive, but am I lovable? Yeah? No,
Like you don't feel that way, and then you end
(28:35):
up in situation ships, which is I think my bread
and butter. Honestly, I've been in like four in the
past Yeah, year and a half and all. But I'm better.
I'm getting better at them now. The last one I
was like, he was like I don't really want anything,
and I was like, great, see you later. Good for you.
I was like, I was like, not not doing this again.
(28:57):
And then it actually was really great because after like
a couple of weeks, I had that realization where I
was like, WHOA, Like this man really didn't put in
any effort. He was actually not that nice to me.
He doesn't really do anything with this life, Like I
would be like, tell me, Like I remember I asked
him on one about first dates. I was like, what's
the thing you're most passionate about? Yeah, and he couldn't
(29:17):
answer the question and he was like my family. And
I was like, yeah, everyone's passionate about their family, Like
it's called love. Yeah, Like I was like, and I
was like, oh, you know, he's still finding himself. And
then like cut to like five weeks later, and I
was like, oh my gosh, that should have given me.
That should have been the biggest indicator. Okay, so I
(29:42):
really want to talk about what we've learned. We've already
talked about that a little bit, but what are we
bringing into our dating lives in twenty twenty three? What
are our non negotiables? Didn't you make it? You made
a list this year, didn't you? For you? I made
a list? Can I read it? Yeah? So are? These
are my expectations and dating boundaries for tw twenty two.
I think they might change this year. But the first
(30:03):
one was I'm looking for a relationship. That was something
I realized. I think I always thought that I was
like the hook up, one night stand situation ship girlie,
like I could just have heaps of casual sex and
I'd be happy. And then I was like, actually, no,
I would like to be loved and cared for and supported.
So I guess set your intent, like no, way, you're
looking for and know what you want? Yeah, I feel
(30:25):
like that's the first what you don't want? What I
don't want? Yeah, yeah, which might be you know, one
night stands, casual sex, whatever it is. Here's the thing, Like,
I'm still up for that, but like, I'm looking for
a relationship. So I think if it's someone that I
could seriously see myself dating and they don't want to
date me, I've learned pretty I've learned now through trial
and error. Like we talked about, yeah, to cut that
off like as soon as possible so no one gets hurt. Yeah.
(30:49):
I also said I will only go on five casual
dates before I know what they want. It used to
be like three, but I was like, sometimes you really
do just want to get to know the person and
like have a bit of like almost a friendship there,
or liken't have enough knowledge before knowing what they want.
If they're looking for something casual, that is not for me,
So I will break things off, which I did with
(31:10):
that guy that I was saying I think things ended
in like October. I was like, Nat, not going to
work this next one I think is really important. They
need to message me to make plans. If I made
the last plan, I expect them to make the next
and I will not compromise. If they want to see me,
they will That one I broke because I think sometimes
(31:30):
like I'm the busier normally the busier party. Like I
work a full time job, I also run the show.
I also have so many other things going on in
my life, friends, other side hustles like sports, family, So
normally I'm the busier person. So it's sometimes up to
me to be like to indicate when I'm free. Yeah,
(31:51):
but most of the time I'm like, I will be like,
I'm free on Friday, would you like to do something?
And then I if I've like planned the last day,
I'm like, you expect them, yeah, um, frequent communication. I'm
not going for like, I don't know, I'm not going
like two weeks without talking to someone completely and then
they even like a week and then they like pop up.
(32:12):
I'm like, Okay, if you can go without thinking about
me for that long, then I'm not really that interested.
And I don't think it's like a great foundation if
you're someone like me who was looking for a relationship
at this point in their life. This one's kind of
like a little bit spicy. So if you're my mom
and dad, you don't have to listen to this or
someone I work with. Please after four dates where sex
(32:33):
is involved, I expect a non sexual date because I
think I fall into I fell into the trap with
oh I said his name with the guy from end
of last year, like we would have sex every single day,
and I was like, yeah, I obviously really enjoy having
sex with you, and it's like great, but also I
feel kind of like you don't really see me, and
(32:56):
it may let me feeling pretty icky. Do you add
anything to that list? I guess you're not really. I
feel like you're you're non negotiables might be a little
bit different. Yeah, And I think, um, I don't think
I'm looking for a relationship anymore currently. Yeah, especially after
what I went through, the last breakup that I had,
(33:19):
it definitely changed the way I think about how I date.
And I felt really really completely misled in that relationship.
If I can even call it a relationship, I would Yeah,
I think I would too. Um. But then again, in
saying that, if I met the right person, yeah, I
think I would make it work, even though I might
not explicitly be looking for a relationship right now. I
(33:40):
also have like a lot of travel plans next year
and I'm not willing to compromise no on that currently
for anyone. Yeah, And Vietnam, Vietnam and the UK. Maybe
I want us to go to the UK together. I'll
go to the UK with you? Oh my god, what
are you going? March? But I think that's all so
(34:00):
a really good point. When I set these like non
negotiables and these are the things that I've learned, it's
to protect myself because I realize that if this I'm
not explicit with myself, and I don't compare the behavior
of someone I'm seriously interested in with this stuff, it
can be quite detrimental and I can often get wrapped up.
I think you and I one thing we really have
(34:22):
in common. We are both incredibly sentimental romantic people. Completely.
I think it's because we're both quite creative as well,
so we want to see the beauty and the love
in so many places where other people don't. Yeah, I
feel like you're very like susceptible to love about me.
I think I'm I just I'm so willing to believe
(34:43):
like that this person wants to give me everything. I
think I am like a romantic, absolutely romantist. Romantist. I'm
a hopeless romantic. I love love. I love giving love.
I love was living love. I just want to give
love to everyone, and so when someone wants to give
me love, of course I'm going to accept it. Why
would somebody lie about that? I do not know. Why
(35:05):
would somebody lie about that? I don't know if you
can answer that for us. I feel like we would
give you a sizeable check, a lot of money. I
can guess I think it's well, I think it stems
from a deep insecurity with him within them. You know,
they probably think they don't you know, don't deserve love
or don't have the capacity to be loved truly for
who they are. So they love bomb vulnerable, beautiful people
(35:30):
like us to make us well, to feel closer to
us than too ye, to then make us yeah. Yeah.
I also think it's because they don't know what they want. Yeah,
And also they don't and then like the start of
a relationship is like always the fun part, right, it's
super exciting, and then they often don't realize that love
(35:50):
and commitment takes more than just fun things and compliments
and sex and gifts. Yeah, Like it actually takes vulnerability
and honesty. And often they're super onboard for that first
chapter yeah, where it's just like super fun and there's
no responsibility and it's like it's just getting to know someone,
And then you get to that next stage where it
(36:11):
actually requires you to have some kind of awareness of
your emotional needs and they needs of others, and they're like, oh,
she's like I'm out, Like I can't do that. How
would you differentiate? Because I know every relationship is different
than people. People always act differently when they meet. You know,
everyone is different. How would you differentiate somebody love bombing
you with somebody who truly has fallen in love with
(36:33):
you very quickly and is showing that intensity at the
beginning of you dating them, and it's and it's true
and it's authentic and it's raw, and they have no
negative intentions towards you or no desire to manipulate you.
How do you differentiate that. I actually was thinking about
this the other day. I think it's about identifying what
it's in response to. So it's love bombing if it's
(36:54):
in response to perhaps you pulling away or them having
done something maybe a little bit wrong, yeah, or like
it's something that's upset you yea, or like as I
think it's a form love bombing would be seen as
a form of manipulation. It's the use of like love
to not coerce, but to attract you in a way
that like they can't fulfill on their end. So it's like,
(37:15):
if they're trying to win you over, that's love bombing. Yeah,
because someone who you cannot truly fall in love with
someone unless it's reciprocated, do you know what I mean?
So it's like, yeah, you could have unrequited love, but
when you think about that person who truly loves you,
it's probably because you truly love them back, and you've
both allowed yourselves to be vulnerable and to connect. So
(37:37):
when they show you love in that situation, it's not
like they're trying to win you over. They've already won
you over. They're not doing it in response to something
that they've done wrong. They're not doing it to kind
of almost coerce you. They're doing it because it's just
this general that there's like serious, like expression of a
deep emotion, whereas love bombing is a way of like
winning you over and like capturing you, bringing you in
(38:01):
and like all that excitement. Yeah. Yeah, I honestly, if
you please don't take my advice, like do your research,
because I don't know. That's just what I think, And
I think that reminds me of when I watched He's
just not that into you. Yeah, I think they said,
what do they say? Something like there is the exception?
(38:21):
You know, like there's always that one or two exceptions
for people who you know, meet someone and instantly fall
in love and it's so intense and passionate and beautiful,
and then it continues that for years. But for most
of us, whether they they say we are there were
the rule. Yeah, it's called the rule. Yeah, because it's typical. Yeah,
my grandparents are one of those exceptions. Oh my god.
(38:45):
I went out for dinner with them last night. They
are so in love. They're like ninety and eighty, like
eighty seven and eighty, I think. And my granddad's still like,
oh baby, look lovely to night and like calls her
babe and like we'll literally do anything for her. Didn't
make men like that anymore. They don't about they were
telling me. My mom was telling me when they first
(39:06):
started dating, my grandma had just come out of a
really messy divorce. Yeah, she doesn't listen to this, but
I hope she won't mind me talking about it. Um,
she came out of this really messy divorce with my
actual grandfather who we never I've never spoken to, and
he was like really awful. And she met this man
my grandfather and not my my grandfather by nature, not
(39:29):
by blood, like he is my grandfather, but he's not
my blood relative, but still like family, family thrown through
and she met him and he just like wowed her,
Like what we were talking about, that like distinction between
just doing things because you love someone and love me.
He like took her on trips, He bought her like diamonds,
(39:49):
He bought her for codes from Paris. He like he
hired her as part of his photography business and got
her to run everything, like her in charge of everything,
would take her business advice, bought her a house, moved
her to Australia, like the whole kebab. Yeah, everything if
you wanted to, he was. And I was like, and
(40:12):
literally and it's still in love with her, yeah, like
every year, like it's so so in love with her
and thinks that she is just the most amazing woman.
And I was like, fuck, m I need to go
back to whenever the nineteen sixties and pick me up
one of these guys. He's so lovely. It's honestly such
a but I feel very lucky now. You know you've
(40:32):
made me think that, like I've actually I've had those
examples and like my parents as well, like I would say, yeah,
I would say they're pretty in love. I don't know.
I don't like to think about it, but like, um,
I've had but I've had those examples of like people
stick like sticking around and yeah, really putting in the energy. Yeah. Yeah.
(40:54):
Well one final question, where do you see your love
life at the end of twenty twenty three. It's a
hard it's hard, and like I feel like my the
you know, context around of my love life has changed
so much in the last month that I'm rethinking everything.
I see you fully in love? Do you reckon? Oh? Yeah,
(41:17):
I know you say you're not looking for a relationship.
I don't think you're looking, but as your very close
friend take it a leader, I think you are someone
who who is a relationship girl. I think, yeah, I
think at the you know, I think I am as well, right,
I just I just I think I do want to
just give somebody all my love, Yeah, because you are
(41:37):
so so generous When you love someone, you love them
so deeply. You are one of the most generous, giving
people I have ever met in all my travels, my
whole life. And I think you do want to give
that to someone, do Yeah? And you have so much
of it to give, Like the amount that you're giving
people who can't even reciprocate is ridiculous, Like imagine when
(42:00):
somebody is reciprocating I'm such a good girlfriend, I think,
oh frick, yeah, I would date you. I would date
you too, should forever I see being in a relationship,
I see Honestly, I don't think I'm getting into a
relationship anytime soon. Really, Oh my gosh. Next year is
so busy for me. Yeah, you're in a relationship with
(42:22):
your work right now. Yeah, I'm obsessed, which is okay.
I think that's In fact, I think that's great. I
know I do. I do, like feel a bit self
conscious about it sometimes, like I don't know friends and
family or from like, yeah, you need to not work
all the time, and yeah, I'm just too, I'm too invested,
like this is yeah, the big like one of this
is I love doing this. It's such an investment to me.
(42:43):
I just actually really care about it and want to
do it every day, every waking minute. I'm always thinking
about it. So how can I have time to give
that to someone else? Because I think if I was
to be dating someone, it would take away from the
things that really drive me at the moment and really
feel my soul, so it wouldn't be what I would
want thank you so much for coming on Sydney. Thank you.
(43:10):
That was such a fun episode. Yeah, I felt really cathartic. Yeah,
it always is to talk to you. Yeah, it always
is to talk to you as well, you too, Oh
my gosh. I also just feel like it's such a
great kind of way to reflect on what we've wanted
this year and bring it into the new year. Any
final thoughts before we wrap up. Dating is such an
(43:31):
important and such important part of my life and it's
so fun. But I think next year it's really time
to focus on me and I think um and I
hope everyone listening also takes the time to to really
love themselves and dedicate next year to yourself. Actually, this
this this really good quote I saw. Do you mind
if I read it to you? Yeah, of course. So
(43:52):
it goes, if you spend your time chasing butterflies, they'll
fly away. If you spend your time making a beautiful garden,
the butterflies will come to you, and if they don't come,
then you still have that garden. I love that quote.
That's so beautiful. That's a great amatic. Yeah, it's a
great way to finish this episode. I think the one
thing we haven't talked about much. That is so important
(44:13):
is that the relationship you cultivate with yourself. You know,
we've talked a lot about dating, but that relationship is
the most important one you will ever have in your
entire life. Yeah, it's the only one that isn't going
to disappear. It's not going to go away. It is
essential that you spend time focused on what you mean
to yourself, how you love yourself, what you like to do,
(44:34):
and those close relationships that really bring you joy. So
to the garden, your own garden. I guess one other
thing before we go that we want to talk about
is that we have some merchandise coming out. Are you excited.
I'm so excited for it. I am as well. We're
doing a toebag and a hoodie. It's going to be
(44:54):
an exclusive launch and yeah, Sydney is actually designing, Yeah,
both of them. I thank you for asking me to
design that. Oh literally, there's no one else I would
have to do it. Of course. I trust you so
much and I love what you do. So I was like, um,
it's such an amazing thing that we can do together.
And we will release some early images and the link
(45:16):
to purchase on the podcast Instagram at that Psychology podcast
if you want to follow Sydney as well at sid
feray f r e y yeah s y d e
y sid Fairy Fairy yeah um, and we'll release some
(45:36):
pictures if you want to get your hands on some
merchandise to support the podcast, to support Sydney's amazing artwork
and amazing work as an artist, we would be very appreciative.
And also it's just going to be really sick, so yeah,
it'll be so pretty. Yeah, it will be re oh
me too. It will be released in the next two months,
so make sure you're following along to get your hands
(45:59):
on that. I'm excited. It's one of the big things
I wanted to do for twenty twenty three and it's
great being able to do it with a close friend.
So thank you again for coming on. Thank you so
much for letting me come on. Yeah, one of my
favorite episodes. I love talking to my friends on the show.
So if you enjoyed this episode, if you enjoy the podcast,
(46:20):
please make sure to leave a five star review on
Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you're listening right now if you
feel called to do so. It really helps the show
grow and reach new audiences, and make sure you are
following our Instagram. At that Psychology podcast, Like I said,
it's where you will hear the first about merchandise. We
also often do polls where you can decide what episodes
(46:43):
are coming out in the week that follows. I let
my listeners decide what I record, So if you want
to be involved in the community, please feel free to
follow us over there, and thank you so much for listening.
Hello, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,
the podcast where we talk through some of the big
life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they
mean for our psychology. Welcome back to the show. Welcome
back to another episode. It is so great to have
(00:26):
you here. New listeners, old listeners. I am so pumped
for today's episode because we have a fantastic, amazing guest
joining us to talk about this week's topic. Hi Sydney,
Hi Gemma, how are you. I'm amazing, How are you?
I'm so good? Thank you for agreeing to come on board.
(00:47):
It's my pleasure if actually been wanting to do this
for a while, a long time. Yeah, I might just
give you a bit more of an introduction, please, sir,
because I feel like we're already just having a chit
chat away. So, Sydney is one of my one of
my closest, closest friends. You didn't know his name. It's specifrocated,
it's mutual. Yeah, thank hope. So yeah, yeah, I think
(01:08):
we're good. But Sydney, you are Do you want to
explain what you do? How we met before we jump in? Sure? Um,
my name is Sydney, like the city. Um, currently I
reside in Melbourne and I I'm a tattoo artist among
many other things. I always have different creative pursuits happening,
but predominantly I'm a tattoo riters. I run a creative
(01:29):
publication called Sweden Sour that centers around Asian Australian identities.
I also work in consulting a little bit, do some
freelance graphic design. And I'm a trained printmaker, which is
what I studied. And Gemma and I met in Canberra.
How long ago was that? Two years? Three years years ago?
(01:49):
And um we met through well we actually met like
at a party randomly before the start of COVID, and
then COVID happened. We didn't stay in touch. But Sydney,
as you could have probably heard and seen, is a
jack of many trades, jack of many trades, jacob all
all of them, well pretty much all of them, thank you.
(02:12):
Has so many different amazing things that she does. And
through her publication the Sweet and Sour zine Zione Zne
whatever you want to Yeah, both work, Yeah, both are correct.
The publication, she was running a life drawn class and
I went to it and I went up she was
like Hi, I don't know if you remember me, and
(02:32):
you were like oh, hey, like how are you? And
then the rest is really history, and we are here
today to talk about something we talk about quite a
bit long way around each other, and like not in
the way that we're like, oh like boys, boys boys, Yeah,
Oh no, no, I don't think in this like that.
And even if it was like who gives them? I
(02:56):
love boys and I hate them, and that's literally it's
about the nuances of hating and loving the opposite gender
for romantic purposes. But what we really want to talk
about is like a lot of things, why we can
really struggle with dating in our twenties, why we fall
in love with the wrong people, why we date the
(03:19):
wrong people, how we attract these like the same kind
of individuals. I feel like it's something that a lot
of us have to learn in our twenties. Um, maybe
you don't. Maybe you found your person and that's it.
In congratulations if that's you, But for most of us,
I would say, you find the people that you truly
love and the type of person you truly love through
a lot of trial and error. Would you agree, yes, yes, yes,
(03:43):
And it's hard and it's exhausting, Yeah, but I think
it's it's always worth it. Yeah, I would say so
hasn't to be honest, hasn't been worth it for me
so far? Well, I think you'll reflect back on that
in five or ten years and realize that of all
the shitty things that have happened to you in your
dating life have made it worth have you know? It worthwhile?
Worth while? Yeah? Even this year. Actually, I think that
(04:04):
I was like dating someone at the end of last year,
and the amount of like growth that came out of
that was ridiculous, Like he like completely broke my heart
and it was like terrible for some time. Yeah, and
then I was like, fuck, I just like completely became
a different person. Like with all that, I think it
(04:26):
left me feeling so insecure. I had like the lowest
self esteem I think I've ever had, and I couldn't
like jump into a new relationship to fix it, so
I had to do it all myself. And now, like
the person I was twelve months ago, I don't know.
I don't think. I don't think much of her exists anymore.
What about you learn any lessons from this year? You
(04:49):
find quite a few lessons, I feel like it's been
a busy year, a few year in terms of dating. Yeah, wait,
don't they say that your cells like not regenerate, but
like they die and then they yea regenerate every twelve
months or something like that. So so literally the person
you're a twelve years ago physically it doesn't exist anymore,
(05:11):
which I think is an interesting metaphor for what you
just said. Oh my god. Yeah, but it's so funny
because like even though those cells don't still exist, right, like,
all those memories still do. Yeah, like you can't get
rid of that. Yeah, I'm like, yeah, whoa, whoa, a
real serious science on this episode because I do not understand.
(05:31):
I don't understand that. Yeah, if the cells that hold
those memories don't exist, and how do those memories still exist?
It's fucking the demon. The demon is at work in
our mind. Damn well, I like that is actually such
a good point. I think it's also the thing with blood, right,
like all your blood. M I guess it's still the cells. Yeah,
actually I do know the answer to this. Ner neurons,
(05:52):
your sign apses. They actually the cells within them might regenerate,
but you can never have more neurons than you were
born with, which is why like doing hardcore like drugs
or like when if someone is an alcoholic can be
so especially in their infancy or not infancy, but like
in the early teens or late teens can be so
damaging because you never get more neurons than you're born with,
(06:16):
which is why I guess like our memories stay so
permanent because either you like completely damage your brain and
you get amnesia and then you can forget about whatever
it is that haunts you, or you don't and you're anyhow,
there's the science behind it. I feel like that was
kind of like a patchwork explanation. Yeah, yeah, we got further,
(06:37):
Yeah we did so lessons I should have written the list.
I have so many like TikTok saved or it's like
things I wish I knew about dating in my twenties
and things I learned from dating this year, and I
have my favorite ones. I should have written down less
of my favorite ones. Yeah, can you remember when it's
like particularly like, yeah, I think, um, I think one
(07:00):
thing that's really stuck out. Okay, two things really stick
out to me when when you ask me that question.
Two kind of statements. The first one We've heard this
a million times, and I think we all try and
convince ourselves to believe it, but a lot of us don't.
If if he wanted to, he would. And the second
statement is, um, why are we having relationship problems that
people were not in a relationship with? Oh? And I
(07:22):
feel like both of those things really encapsulate my my
dating life of twenty twenty, which is kind of sad
when those two statements aren't exactly positive, But I really, yeah,
I really think those accurately reflect reflect my life. I
think through all, I've dated a lot of men in
twenty twenty, like a lot and twenty my bad. I've
(07:43):
dated a lot of men in twenty twenty two, And
in twenty twenty twenty, I was in a relationship, so
I didn't date a lot of man. I dated a
lot of men in twenty twenty two, and I think
so many times I was willing to give them the
benefit of the doubt. I was willing to give him
a second chance. And I really believed that you know,
(08:04):
a lot of these men maybe were the one, and
that they really really cared for me and loved me
even and I saw the best in them, and I
kept giving them second chances and thinking that you know,
they would not not I didn't want them to change,
but perhaps I held on to the hope that they
would realize that, you know, I was a really good person.
Then they wanted to be, you know, have something with me.
(08:24):
And they told me they wanted in whatever. But I think, seriously,
if he wanted to, he would. I think people say
they're not ready for a relationship, but if you really
do love someone, in value someone that you want to
be in a relationship with them, you'll make it work
no matter what, no matter what. I completely agree with
that statement, Like, if they wanted to, they would. Yeah,
I did see this like turnament that was like if
(08:46):
they know, then they should, like if they know what
you expect, then they should reciprocate him, and if they don't,
well then they're definitely not the right person. But I
honestly believe this because I think about my own perspective
towards dating. When I really care about someone, like I
am willing to give them everything everything, yeah, and probably
(09:09):
more than I can give, more than they probably deserve
from me as well. And there have been times in
my life when I've been like I do not want
a relationship. I am so not in the mindset, and
then I meet someone and they are the right person
and I end up dating them for like two years,
and yeah, there is those times at the beginning where
I'm like, oh, I don't know, I don't know, but
(09:29):
not for their like, not for for my sake, for
their sakes, they don't want to hurt them when you really,
like can feel chemistry with someone and you have that
intuition like there really there's no reason why you shouldn't
be right now. Yeah. Yeah, it's a good lesson actually,
And I also just think it's something that I've learned
(09:50):
more the more men I've dated, where I'm like, do
I really want to be dragging you, kicking and screaming
into a relationship with yeah? Yeah, or like begging you
for yeah, or try and convince you or persuade you
or yeah, or do things to make you, you know,
understand that you do want a relationship with me. Yeah, No,
you should just know. Yeah. And it's also just like
(10:12):
you know what your person's probably out there, and if
it's not me, well, I don't think that love should
be made up of so much attention, so much difficulty yeah. No,
I think another lesson I learned from this year is
that things are really quite black and white. Like I
think I made up excuses for lots of people, Like,
you know, i'd see someone and be like, oh, they
(10:33):
would be in a relationship with me if they didn't
have this going on in their life, and they do
really really love me and care for me and want
to be in a relationship with me. But this is happening,
and maybe after that happens, they'll be different, or you know,
this will happen and that will happen. No, it's really
black and white. If they wanted to, they would, if
they wanted me right now, they would be with me. Yeah,
and they wouldn't make up those excuses. Well, I think
about the example, like what you went through in the
(10:54):
last two months, right with that person, and we're okay
to talk about that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I wonder
if you'll listen to the boat. No, I don't wonder
if you will maybe, but yeah, it's fine. I don't care. Well,
if you're listening, you really fumbled the fucking bag, Yeah, bitch,
like that felt so unnatural coming out of on now unnatural?
(11:15):
Well he did, he did. Maybe you called me and
I was like, man, I just had the biggest l
of his life because I think, oh, he does actually
know it a little Christmas message we all see right
through that. There was literally a TikTok I sent you
about that, Yeah, the Christmas message. Yeah, and you know
(11:37):
what he really he really did And it's something that
I've realized more and I hope I think you realized
this as well. The more you mature and grow confident
in yourself and like see your value, the more you're like, wow,
totally you're loss. Yeah, because lately, most of the men
who treat us the worst, those who really have nothing
going for them, like not much. I was thinking about
(12:00):
this the other day. I was like looking at the
splattering of people that have broken my heart, and I
was like, not one of them has accomplished anything that
I could respect compared to you. Yeah, they well, I
don't know if that I think that makes me feel weird.
But without the comparison, right, if it's just not to
(12:22):
be like relative about it, but like absolute, none of
them I like have They had no ambitions, they had
no dreams. Most of them didn't even have like a job,
They didn't have anything they were passionate about and even
if they did, like, they didn't take it very seriously.
They weren't like self motivated, self starters, like none of it.
So what did you see in them? I don't know.
(12:44):
I think I saw a project to be honest, yeah,
or also I just saw what they could give me,
which was like, I want to be loved, and I
think it's a massive thing of mine where it's like
I'm very much willing to actually go against what I
truly believe in some ways to receive affection and to
receive vans something I had to unlearn this year and
(13:06):
I did, I like very actively, was like I can
see the times in the past in which I have
actually undermined my own moral compass. I've borne against my
values because I was so desperate for this person's admiration
and for their love, and the result has been me
feeling like completely distanced from my true self and why
(13:27):
for what? For what reason? Like I think about that
guy I dated at the end of last year, Oh
my god, like I did. I was like, I lost
friends because I chose to be with him. And it's
like what you said, stop having relationship problems with people.
You're not in a relationship with We weren't even like exclusive,
(13:48):
and I still was willing to make those sacrifices. It's
not his fault, definitely not. It's like all on me
for not recognizing that floor myself soon enough, I think,
Like another thing but I really want to talk about it,
is like, why do you think we do date the
wrong people and fall in love with the wrong people
given that we have all of that knowledge, Like we
(14:08):
obviously both quite successful, self starting women who have a
lot of people who love us, who create positive impact,
Like you literally put art on people's bodies that they're
going to have for the rest of their lives. How
crave like that is? Like almost that is so profound
to me when you every time I like see you
at work, so honored to be able to do that. Yeah,
(14:31):
it's incredible. And we know all this about ourselves, right,
Like we know that sometimes we just create affection, we
look past the red flags that as I think successful women,
sometimes we settle a little bit because we're worried that
someone won't ever want this kind of like I don't
know not ever want it, but like we'll feel intimidated
(14:53):
or it's like when you when you're forced to be
strong all the time. Sometimes you just want the soft yeah, yeah, yeah,
Sometimes you just want the gooyiness and like someone just
really giving you a cuddle and like caring about you.
So why do you think it is that we have
historically chosen to date the wrong people? I honestly, I
(15:15):
don't know. Maybe it comes um, maybe it comes from
I think I have a lot of insecurities. Um. I
think they probably stem from things I went through as
a child and maybe the way my parents raised me.
But um, I'm like, what did I read the other day? UM?
(15:36):
I have like I was it someone sent me many
sent me this TikTok and it was like, um, some
of you back, well I was I can't remember. Um. Yeah,
I think I think even though I think logically I
know I'm a successful, you know, businesswoman, I think I'm
(16:01):
a relatively attractive logically, I feel like I shouldn't have
as many insecurities that I do have. Like I am
so incredibly insecure, and I think maybe that plays a
big part in how I date. Because I feel so insecure.
Maybe I don't think that I deserve or have the
(16:23):
capacity to be with somebody who is at my level,
who like I would really want a date and maybe
I'm settling because I just don't believe I could find
anybody better because I am so insecure. Wow, that's sad.
It is sad, but I think it makes sense, right.
I saw I read this article the other day and
it was like a lot of the time, the reason
(16:45):
why we get like the ick from people who like
us too much just because we believe so deeply that
we are not deserving of that love that we push
them away, which is a big thing, right, Like totally
you're like I also I think similarly, like in a
very levein as people who you know, work really hard
and have pretty big dreams that we know are going
(17:07):
to require a lot of agency. We often see it
as the case of like when I have to work
harder for something, it's more valuable. Yeah. I think about
this all the time. Yeah, so it's like, Okay, I
think when the way I was raised was like if
it's easy, then everyone can do it, and you don't
want the thing that everyone has, Like you want to
(17:28):
be you know, you want to do something different and
you want to really be good at something different and
be able to touch people's lives in a way that like,
it's not everyone can do that, and you have to
work really hard. So now it's like been ingrained to me.
It's like, well, if something is easy, it's not worth having.
Like in every other facet of our lives, we have
to work really hard and put in a lot of effort.
(17:49):
So that mentality then bleeds into our dating life when
we have someone who's there who like, is really obsessed
with us, who really likes us, where like, oh, this
seems a little bit too good to be true, and
I'm not used to getting something like this for free,
and you push it away, you push it away. And
then then when there's someone that you have to work
(18:09):
when they you know you don't feel deserving of their
love because they push you away because they play hard
to get or because they're quite cold or hostile will
never give you what you want. You're like, well, this
is what I want because obviously, like the best things
in life aren't easy, so you know, this should be
something that I that I work for. I think that
(18:30):
as a mentality that we often have very unconsciously, but
we don't realize. I've I honestly think that's a big
explanation for my dating choices. Yeah, that's how we get
stuck in these situations because you're like, it's also sorry,
sunk costs as well, sunk well sunk costs. So it's like, okay, say,
(18:52):
for example, you buy like a really expensive pair of
boots and then they break. You're like, you're not just
going to throw them out because you already invested that
money in them. Yeah, so you are going to pay
that additional forty dollars to you know, get the heel fixed,
and then the typer breaks, You're not going to throw
them out. You are going to pay additional money, and
it keeps piling up because you've made that initial investment
(19:13):
that was so intense that you're like, I don't want
to I've sunk that money into this already. I don't
want to lose that initial money, but actually end up
spending more money than you probably would have if you
just bought a new pair. And that's what it's like
with relationships. For example, you're like dating someone you're like
two months in and you're like, fuck, like, I've already
told my friends about this guy. Yeah, I've wasted two
(19:34):
months on like getting to know him. Yeah, I've invested,
you know, time and energy and money into going on dates,
into doing fun things, and now he doesn't want the
same thing. But I'm not going to give up because
I've already put all of this effort. I have all
these sunk costs in this relationship, So I'm just going
to keep throwing my time and energy at it and
hoping that it turns around, when really it would be
(19:54):
better just to dump them right there and then and there.
You've lost two months of time, just move on. Yeah,
you know, it's not a great situation, Like, it's probably
not the outcome that you wanted, but you're actually going
to end up losing more if you keep going, and
it's very unlikely that you're going to get the outcome
that you want. Have you felt that way? Does that
make sense? Yeah? Yeah, the way you've explained that makes
(20:16):
so much sense. Yeah. Actually, it's like gambling. Like when
people gamble, they're like, you know, I've already like put
in two thousand dollars on the Pokeys, but if I
put ten dollars and I might be able to win
it all back. Yeah, that's mine. How do you change
that thinking? Um? I think I don't really know. I
guess it's like a conscious thing you have to be
(20:37):
really really like explicit about and very much pay attention to.
But I think your point before about like your childhood
that also plays a role in whether or not you're
going to I don't want to say like fall, but
like be vulnerable to these kind of psychological inner workings. Yeah, so, like,
what do you think it was about how your parents
(20:58):
raised you? Oh god, oh my god. We're actually sitting
on a couch right now, so it's very Freudian like back,
tell me about your childhood trauma. Um, well, I don't
really know what a successful relationship looks like or a
successful marriage. I suppose rather, my parents got divorced when
(21:20):
I was four. My entire extended family everyone's been through
a divorce, everyone's remarried. Um, nobody in my life really has.
I don't think. I I can't really think of anybody
in my um like close circle of friends and family
who isn't a successful relationship, a long term relationship. No,
(21:40):
actually that's not true. I've uncles and aunts who are
like reading right now pretty far like yeah, and also,
how often do you see your uncle's and aunts? Yeah?
Not that often? But my mom's been divorced twice and
now she's fiercely independent and single. My dad only got
remarried last year, after um twenty years of being single.
He's just been remarried again. He's been dating his whole life.
(22:03):
He seems happy now. But um, I don't know, like
my my mom, so I felt m completely unattractive and undateable,
and I guess unfuckable when I was like since I
was a teenager, since since puberty, and I didn't think
I deserved um anyone's love. I didn't think I was
(22:27):
attractive enough to like, um, be with anybody. And my
mom I always told me I was fat, and she
always criticized my physical appearance a lot, to the point
where my sister developed and eating disorder. And yeah, she
was relatively toxic when I was younger in the way
that she raised me. She's she's good now, I mean
(22:48):
somewhat good, Like we have a pretty good relationship. But
I think she didn't give me a lot of like
physical affection and didn't express her love to me in
a tangible way when I was younger, because I mostly
grew up with her from when I was twelve years
old to like twenty one, twenty two, and she never
really touched me or hugged me or told me that
(23:09):
she loved me. And so as soon as it like
the first time a man like told me that I
felt I was hot or wanted to go on a
date with me, I clung onto that like so deeply,
because then I then I realized I was lovable and
that I could receive love and affection from people. And
then I just began to crave that so much because
I never got that in my childhood from my mother.
(23:31):
And then I became like a serial dater and I
just needed to be with men. I remember the first
or second year I started dating, I was just I
needed to be with people all the time. And the
intimacy that I found through sex and through dating men, yeah,
like filled that hole metaphorically and physically, Yeah, inside me.
(23:52):
The whole left. Yeah that my mother didn't like couldn't fail.
And I think I like to send I think that's
why I date shitty men still, because it stems all
the way back from the way my mother treated me,
from me like craving that in men like now I'm
more aware of it, and I'm more conscious of it
(24:12):
and it's and I'm slowly changing and dating with more
clarity and more consciously dating. But I do think there's
still a part of me that that still craves that
love and that care that I feel like my mother
didn't adequately provide me, and that I now find in men. Wow,
pretty profound. I think that you're but I honestly think
(24:34):
you're spot on. You reckon. Yeah, I think you just
have a lot of credit as well for moving past that.
It's a pretty like. The wounds from childhood are pretty
hard to to heal on our own, they are, and
you've done a pretty amazing job. Yeah, our childhood has
such a significant impact on how we approach romantic relationships
later in life. Whatever it may be, like that that
(24:57):
instance of your sister is so hard to hear, because
I'm sure all of us, in some way or another
have some niggling little insecurity or mistreatment or trauma from
childhood that we just can't seem to shake. It's still there. Yeah, Like,
I think I had a similar thing to what you
(25:17):
were saying, where I never felt like anyone found me
attractive when I was younger, and I never felt particularly
like lovable, Like no one really ever showed interest in
me at all compared to all the other girls because
I was like pretty nerdy and I kind of like
stuck to myself a little bit, and I was like, yeah,
(25:38):
I was a bit of a nerd and I didn't
like go out and party or do anything like that.
Like I wanted to read and make art and like
you know, go to book club and play basketball. Like
I was. I was a loser. But I love that.
I love that I was a loser because look about
how it's turned out. I moved away from home when
I was eighteen and like completely created a new life
for myself that I love. But that early experience where
(26:02):
everyone else around you is dating, it's having like their
first sexual experiences, is like having these early romantic experiences.
When you feel like you're missing out on those, you
get your your you get older, and suddenly you're like, okay,
I want that now, and you begin to collect because
(26:23):
it's like every time you receive that affection that you
never got in those early like teen years, those formative
teen years, it feels initially like it's healing you, like
it's giving them either thing that you've always done it. Yeah, yeah,
it's intense. I'm sure did you find that like that first? Yeah? Yeah,
And I'm sure it didn't mean as much to the
man showing, you know, to me, it felt it was
(26:45):
much more important to me than it was to him.
But yeah, and it probably probably didn't mean anything, but
to me it meant everything. Ever, and then they clung
onto that so much more. And every time someone a
new person shows you that, it just it It kind
of not so much reaffirms, but it, I don't know,
it like pushes aside that belief that you have for like,
I'm not lovable, and every time like someone else shows
(27:08):
you that you are, someone else shows you that they
are attracted to you, that they want to have sex
with you, they want to date you, it just like
pushes that that belief. It actually never really addresses its aid. Yeah,
a band aid solution, and then it makes you more
reliant on them as well, which then makes the problem,
I guess, kind of worse. Yeah, absolutely, because you're like, shit,
(27:30):
I didn't actually work on my self esteem in other ways.
I just use this external validation to distract, to distract
me and to put a temporary band aid over this,
like very big wound that it's going to actually impact
me not only just in my dating life but everywhere
else as well. Um, that's definitely something I found. And
then I was like went through I remember in like
my second year of UNI, I was just like went
(27:51):
through like a bit of a hole phase. Yeah, it's
like I just need this, Like this is just like
the most temporarily nourishing thing I could find. It was
like it was like junk food. I was like, yeah,
it's so good and like, yeahm like this is all
I've ever wanted. And then like you wake up the
next day and you're like, oh, I feel so feel terrible.
I feel terrible, and like that insecurity is still there,
(28:13):
especially when it's like it doesn't just become about whether
they find you attractive, it's about whether they can love you.
And then then they don't love you, and then that's
an even bigger insecurity. It's like yeah, sure, I'm like
I'm fuckable and I'm attractive, but am I lovable? Yeah? No,
Like you don't feel that way, and then you end
(28:35):
up in situation ships, which is I think my bread
and butter. Honestly, I've been in like four in the
past Yeah, year and a half and all. But I'm better.
I'm getting better at them now. The last one I
was like, he was like I don't really want anything,
and I was like, great, see you later. Good for you.
I was like, I was like, not not doing this again.
(28:57):
And then it actually was really great because after like
a couple of weeks, I had that realization where I
was like, WHOA, Like this man really didn't put in
any effort. He was actually not that nice to me.
He doesn't really do anything with this life, Like I
would be like, tell me, Like I remember I asked
him on one about first dates. I was like, what's
the thing you're most passionate about? Yeah, and he couldn't
(29:17):
answer the question and he was like my family. And
I was like, yeah, everyone's passionate about their family, Like
it's called love. Yeah, Like I was like, and I
was like, oh, you know, he's still finding himself. And
then like cut to like five weeks later, and I
was like, oh my gosh, that should have given me.
That should have been the biggest indicator. Okay, so I
(29:42):
really want to talk about what we've learned. We've already
talked about that a little bit, but what are we
bringing into our dating lives in twenty twenty three? What
are our non negotiables? Didn't you make it? You made
a list this year, didn't you? For you? I made
a list? Can I read it? Yeah? So are? These
are my expectations and dating boundaries for tw twenty two.
I think they might change this year. But the first
(30:03):
one was I'm looking for a relationship. That was something
I realized. I think I always thought that I was
like the hook up, one night stand situation ship girlie,
like I could just have heaps of casual sex and
I'd be happy. And then I was like, actually, no,
I would like to be loved and cared for and supported.
So I guess set your intent, like no, way, you're
looking for and know what you want? Yeah, I feel
(30:25):
like that's the first what you don't want? What I
don't want? Yeah, yeah, which might be you know, one
night stands, casual sex, whatever it is. Here's the thing, Like,
I'm still up for that, but like, I'm looking for
a relationship. So I think if it's someone that I
could seriously see myself dating and they don't want to
date me, I've learned pretty I've learned now through trial
and error. Like we talked about, yeah, to cut that
off like as soon as possible so no one gets hurt. Yeah.
(30:49):
I also said I will only go on five casual
dates before I know what they want. It used to
be like three, but I was like, sometimes you really
do just want to get to know the person and
like have a bit of like almost a friendship there,
or liken't have enough knowledge before knowing what they want.
If they're looking for something casual, that is not for me,
So I will break things off, which I did with
(31:10):
that guy that I was saying I think things ended
in like October. I was like, Nat, not going to
work this next one I think is really important. They
need to message me to make plans. If I made
the last plan, I expect them to make the next
and I will not compromise. If they want to see me,
they will That one I broke because I think sometimes
(31:30):
like I'm the busier normally the busier party. Like I
work a full time job, I also run the show.
I also have so many other things going on in
my life, friends, other side hustles like sports, family, So
normally I'm the busier person. So it's sometimes up to
me to be like to indicate when I'm free. Yeah,
(31:51):
but most of the time I'm like, I will be like,
I'm free on Friday, would you like to do something?
And then I if I've like planned the last day,
I'm like, you expect them, yeah, um, frequent communication. I'm
not going for like, I don't know, I'm not going
like two weeks without talking to someone completely and then
they even like a week and then they like pop up.
(32:12):
I'm like, Okay, if you can go without thinking about
me for that long, then I'm not really that interested.
And I don't think it's like a great foundation if
you're someone like me who was looking for a relationship
at this point in their life. This one's kind of
like a little bit spicy. So if you're my mom
and dad, you don't have to listen to this or
someone I work with. Please after four dates where sex
(32:33):
is involved, I expect a non sexual date because I
think I fall into I fell into the trap with
oh I said his name with the guy from end
of last year, like we would have sex every single day,
and I was like, yeah, I obviously really enjoy having
sex with you, and it's like great, but also I
feel kind of like you don't really see me, and
(32:56):
it may let me feeling pretty icky. Do you add
anything to that list? I guess you're not really. I
feel like you're you're non negotiables might be a little
bit different. Yeah, And I think, um, I don't think
I'm looking for a relationship anymore currently. Yeah, especially after
what I went through, the last breakup that I had,
(33:19):
it definitely changed the way I think about how I date.
And I felt really really completely misled in that relationship.
If I can even call it a relationship, I would Yeah,
I think I would too. Um. But then again, in
saying that, if I met the right person, yeah, I
think I would make it work, even though I might
not explicitly be looking for a relationship right now. I
(33:40):
also have like a lot of travel plans next year
and I'm not willing to compromise no on that currently
for anyone. Yeah, And Vietnam, Vietnam and the UK. Maybe
I want us to go to the UK together. I'll
go to the UK with you? Oh my god, what
are you going? March? But I think that's all so
(34:00):
a really good point. When I set these like non
negotiables and these are the things that I've learned, it's
to protect myself because I realize that if this I'm
not explicit with myself, and I don't compare the behavior
of someone I'm seriously interested in with this stuff, it
can be quite detrimental and I can often get wrapped up.
I think you and I one thing we really have
(34:22):
in common. We are both incredibly sentimental romantic people. Completely.
I think it's because we're both quite creative as well,
so we want to see the beauty and the love
in so many places where other people don't. Yeah, I
feel like you're very like susceptible to love about me.
I think I'm I just I'm so willing to believe
(34:43):
like that this person wants to give me everything. I
think I am like a romantic, absolutely romantist. Romantist. I'm
a hopeless romantic. I love love. I love giving love.
I love was living love. I just want to give
love to everyone, and so when someone wants to give
me love, of course I'm going to accept it. Why
would somebody lie about that? I do not know. Why
(35:05):
would somebody lie about that? I don't know if you
can answer that for us. I feel like we would
give you a sizeable check, a lot of money. I
can guess I think it's well, I think it stems
from a deep insecurity with him within them. You know,
they probably think they don't you know, don't deserve love
or don't have the capacity to be loved truly for
who they are. So they love bomb vulnerable, beautiful people
(35:30):
like us to make us well, to feel closer to
us than too ye, to then make us yeah. Yeah.
I also think it's because they don't know what they want. Yeah,
And also they don't and then like the start of
a relationship is like always the fun part, right, it's
super exciting, and then they often don't realize that love
(35:50):
and commitment takes more than just fun things and compliments
and sex and gifts. Yeah, Like it actually takes vulnerability
and honesty. And often they're super onboard for that first
chapter yeah, where it's just like super fun and there's
no responsibility and it's like it's just getting to know someone,
And then you get to that next stage where it
(36:11):
actually requires you to have some kind of awareness of
your emotional needs and they needs of others, and they're like, oh,
she's like I'm out, Like I can't do that. How
would you differentiate? Because I know every relationship is different
than people. People always act differently when they meet. You know,
everyone is different. How would you differentiate somebody love bombing
you with somebody who truly has fallen in love with
(36:33):
you very quickly and is showing that intensity at the
beginning of you dating them, and it's and it's true
and it's authentic and it's raw, and they have no
negative intentions towards you or no desire to manipulate you.
How do you differentiate that. I actually was thinking about
this the other day. I think it's about identifying what
it's in response to. So it's love bombing if it's
(36:54):
in response to perhaps you pulling away or them having
done something maybe a little bit wrong, yeah, or like
it's something that's upset you yea, or like as I
think it's a form love bombing would be seen as
a form of manipulation. It's the use of like love
to not coerce, but to attract you in a way
that like they can't fulfill on their end. So it's like,
(37:15):
if they're trying to win you over, that's love bombing. Yeah,
because someone who you cannot truly fall in love with
someone unless it's reciprocated, do you know what I mean?
So it's like, yeah, you could have unrequited love, but
when you think about that person who truly loves you,
it's probably because you truly love them back, and you've
both allowed yourselves to be vulnerable and to connect. So
(37:37):
when they show you love in that situation, it's not
like they're trying to win you over. They've already won
you over. They're not doing it in response to something
that they've done wrong. They're not doing it to kind
of almost coerce you. They're doing it because it's just
this general that there's like serious, like expression of a
deep emotion, whereas love bombing is a way of like
winning you over and like capturing you, bringing you in
(38:01):
and like all that excitement. Yeah. Yeah, I honestly, if
you please don't take my advice, like do your research,
because I don't know. That's just what I think, And
I think that reminds me of when I watched He's
just not that into you. Yeah, I think they said,
what do they say? Something like there is the exception?
(38:21):
You know, like there's always that one or two exceptions
for people who you know, meet someone and instantly fall
in love and it's so intense and passionate and beautiful,
and then it continues that for years. But for most
of us, whether they they say we are there were
the rule. Yeah, it's called the rule. Yeah, because it's typical. Yeah,
my grandparents are one of those exceptions. Oh my god.
(38:45):
I went out for dinner with them last night. They
are so in love. They're like ninety and eighty, like
eighty seven and eighty, I think. And my granddad's still like,
oh baby, look lovely to night and like calls her
babe and like we'll literally do anything for her. Didn't
make men like that anymore. They don't about they were
telling me. My mom was telling me when they first
(39:06):
started dating, my grandma had just come out of a
really messy divorce. Yeah, she doesn't listen to this, but
I hope she won't mind me talking about it. Um,
she came out of this really messy divorce with my
actual grandfather who we never I've never spoken to, and
he was like really awful. And she met this man
my grandfather and not my my grandfather by nature, not
(39:29):
by blood, like he is my grandfather, but he's not
my blood relative, but still like family, family thrown through
and she met him and he just like wowed her,
Like what we were talking about, that like distinction between
just doing things because you love someone and love me.
He like took her on trips, He bought her like diamonds,
(39:49):
He bought her for codes from Paris. He like he
hired her as part of his photography business and got
her to run everything, like her in charge of everything,
would take her business advice, bought her a house, moved
her to Australia, like the whole kebab. Yeah, everything if
you wanted to, he was. And I was like, and
(40:12):
literally and it's still in love with her, yeah, like
every year, like it's so so in love with her
and thinks that she is just the most amazing woman.
And I was like, fuck, m I need to go
back to whenever the nineteen sixties and pick me up
one of these guys. He's so lovely. It's honestly such
a but I feel very lucky now. You know you've
(40:32):
made me think that, like I've actually I've had those
examples and like my parents as well, like I would say, yeah,
I would say they're pretty in love. I don't know.
I don't like to think about it, but like, um,
I've had but I've had those examples of like people
stick like sticking around and yeah, really putting in the energy. Yeah. Yeah.
(40:54):
Well one final question, where do you see your love
life at the end of twenty twenty three. It's a
hard it's hard, and like I feel like my the
you know, context around of my love life has changed
so much in the last month that I'm rethinking everything.
I see you fully in love? Do you reckon? Oh? Yeah,
(41:17):
I know you say you're not looking for a relationship.
I don't think you're looking, but as your very close
friend take it a leader, I think you are someone
who who is a relationship girl. I think, yeah, I
think at the you know, I think I am as well, right,
I just I just I think I do want to
just give somebody all my love, Yeah, because you are
(41:37):
so so generous When you love someone, you love them
so deeply. You are one of the most generous, giving
people I have ever met in all my travels, my
whole life. And I think you do want to give
that to someone, do Yeah? And you have so much
of it to give, Like the amount that you're giving
people who can't even reciprocate is ridiculous, Like imagine when
(42:00):
somebody is reciprocating I'm such a good girlfriend, I think,
oh frick, yeah, I would date you. I would date
you too, should forever I see being in a relationship,
I see Honestly, I don't think I'm getting into a
relationship anytime soon. Really, Oh my gosh. Next year is
so busy for me. Yeah, you're in a relationship with
(42:22):
your work right now. Yeah, I'm obsessed, which is okay.
I think that's In fact, I think that's great. I
know I do. I do, like feel a bit self
conscious about it sometimes, like I don't know friends and
family or from like, yeah, you need to not work
all the time, and yeah, I'm just too, I'm too invested,
like this is yeah, the big like one of this
is I love doing this. It's such an investment to me.
(42:43):
I just actually really care about it and want to
do it every day, every waking minute. I'm always thinking
about it. So how can I have time to give
that to someone else? Because I think if I was
to be dating someone, it would take away from the
things that really drive me at the moment and really
feel my soul, so it wouldn't be what I would
want thank you so much for coming on Sydney. Thank you.
(43:10):
That was such a fun episode. Yeah, I felt really cathartic. Yeah,
it always is to talk to you. Yeah, it always
is to talk to you as well, you too, Oh
my gosh. I also just feel like it's such a
great kind of way to reflect on what we've wanted
this year and bring it into the new year. Any
final thoughts before we wrap up. Dating is such an
(43:31):
important and such important part of my life and it's
so fun. But I think next year it's really time
to focus on me and I think um and I
hope everyone listening also takes the time to to really
love themselves and dedicate next year to yourself. Actually, this
this this really good quote I saw. Do you mind
if I read it to you? Yeah, of course. So
(43:52):
it goes, if you spend your time chasing butterflies, they'll
fly away. If you spend your time making a beautiful garden,
the butterflies will come to you, and if they don't come,
then you still have that garden. I love that quote.
That's so beautiful. That's a great amatic. Yeah, it's a
great way to finish this episode. I think the one
thing we haven't talked about much. That is so important
(44:13):
is that the relationship you cultivate with yourself. You know,
we've talked a lot about dating, but that relationship is
the most important one you will ever have in your
entire life. Yeah, it's the only one that isn't going
to disappear. It's not going to go away. It is
essential that you spend time focused on what you mean
to yourself, how you love yourself, what you like to do,
(44:34):
and those close relationships that really bring you joy. So
to the garden, your own garden. I guess one other
thing before we go that we want to talk about
is that we have some merchandise coming out. Are you excited.
I'm so excited for it. I am as well. We're
doing a toebag and a hoodie. It's going to be
(44:54):
an exclusive launch and yeah, Sydney is actually designing, Yeah,
both of them. I thank you for asking me to
design that. Oh literally, there's no one else I would
have to do it. Of course. I trust you so
much and I love what you do. So I was like, um,
it's such an amazing thing that we can do together.
And we will release some early images and the link
(45:16):
to purchase on the podcast Instagram at that Psychology podcast
if you want to follow Sydney as well at sid
feray f r e y yeah s y d e
y sid Fairy Fairy yeah um, and we'll release some
(45:36):
pictures if you want to get your hands on some
merchandise to support the podcast, to support Sydney's amazing artwork
and amazing work as an artist, we would be very appreciative.
And also it's just going to be really sick, so yeah,
it'll be so pretty. Yeah, it will be re oh
me too. It will be released in the next two months,
so make sure you're following along to get your hands
(45:59):
on that. I'm excited. It's one of the big things
I wanted to do for twenty twenty three and it's
great being able to do it with a close friend.
So thank you again for coming on. Thank you so
much for letting me come on. Yeah, one of my
favorite episodes. I love talking to my friends on the show.
So if you enjoyed this episode, if you enjoy the podcast,
(46:20):
please make sure to leave a five star review on
Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you're listening right now if you
feel called to do so. It really helps the show
grow and reach new audiences, and make sure you are
following our Instagram. At that Psychology podcast, Like I said,
it's where you will hear the first about merchandise. We
also often do polls where you can decide what episodes
(46:43):
are coming out in the week that follows. I let
my listeners decide what I record, So if you want
to be involved in the community, please feel free to
follow us over there, and thank you so much for listening.
Host
Jemma Sbeghen
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