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May 1, 2023 42 mins

Perfectionism is on the rise amongst young people, and in this episode we break down exactly what it means to have perfectionist tendencies. We examine the theories of personality, our upbringing, links to OCD and ADHD and what it means for academic performance and anxiety. We also dive into some of the methods for minimising our perfectionism, including visualisation, the 80-20 rule, cognitive behavioural therapy and positive self talk to show how life isn't perfect, so you don't have to be either. Listen now. 

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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,
the podcast where we talk through some of the big
life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they
mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show,

(00:25):
or welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners,
wherever you are in the world, it is so great
to have you back here for another episode. This week,
I thought we'd tackle a subject that I'm sure is
really pertinent for a lot of us at the moment,
and that is the struggle with perfectionism, particularly as it

(00:48):
relates to academic anxiety, but also in so many other
realms of our lives. The interesting thing about this topic
for me is that perfectionism is often interpreted as a
good thing and an overall positive quality. How many of
us have wrote that you have strong attention to detail
on our resumes or talked about your perfectionist traits in

(01:12):
a job interview. It's widely valued and viewed in society
as a positive thing, something that we would like to have,
so we don't always second guess its use and what
it actually means for our behavior, particularly for people in
their twenties. As is obviously the whole entire purpose of

(01:32):
this show. But what does psychology actually say about this trait?
What does it actually say about perfectionism. I'm going to
spoil some of the research for you already, but if
you haven't guessed it, perfectionism can be incredibly stifling and
restrictive in the pursuit of both our short term goals
such as a finishing an assignment, getting things done, completing

(01:56):
the things on our to do list, but also our
long term goals all the way up to graduating university,
choosing a career path, and even creating successful relationships. There
are some surprising emotional and mental health consequences that I
think aren't spoken about enough when we talk about perfectionism,
and more broadly, there are a number of misconceptions about

(02:20):
this concept that I think need to be broken down
because that colocal use to describe perfectionism as positive, it
really does reinforce some pretty negative behaviors, and in reality,
there really isn't much about this quality that is healthy.
In fact, it's very much a dangerous, maladaptive coping mechanism

(02:43):
for dealing with failure and for dealing with criticism from others,
and it's on the rise, particularly amongst young people. As
far as our twenties are concerned, the presence of perfectionism
is very important to discuss as it relates to a
number of our experiences, including our body image. If you

(03:03):
listen to the episode on eating disorders or diet culture,
you'll already know that people with certain conditions like anorexia
are much more likely to be perfectionist compared to the
average individual, but also people bleazing tendencies, and the one
I really want to focus on today academic performance and

(03:24):
academic anxiety. Most of us in our twenties, I would
assume are in some kind of further study or you
have done further study. And although it is a slug
for most of us and unenjoyable at times, some of
us are particularly crippled by the need to meet an
exceptional standard of performance, to the point that it actually

(03:47):
causes paralysis. It paralyzes our ability to start things, to
finish them, to feel happy and successful. It's like our
brain is asking us for one thing, but simultaneously sabotaging
our efforts, and it's a very complicated interaction. Interestingly, students
who are perfectionists do typically do better in academic environments,

(04:11):
but add a massive expense to the overall enjoyment of
their studies and their overall wellbeing. So today we're going
to discuss everything to do with perfectionism, from the origins,
why some people have it and others don't, the links
to personality and procrastination, how it relates to academic anxiety,

(04:35):
and of course what we can do about it. I
think perfectionism sometimes feels like a bit of a mental prison.
I'm saying that as a perfectionist myself. But we can
really retrain our brains using techniques like the eighty twenty method,
visualization positive self talk to reframe the tasks on our
to do list so that they seem manageable and ultimately

(05:00):
understand that life is not about being perfect. So for
my perfectionists out there, this one is for you. Let's
ride this wave together and get to the bottom of
the psychology and the science of perfectionism. Perfectionism it's not

(05:21):
the same as having high standards for ourselves or wanting
to be the best that we can be. That's probably
the biggest misconception that I want to address straight off
the bat, because I think this misunderstanding is a massive
reason why we often think of this trait as being positive.
But in the words of possibly one of my favorite people,

(05:42):
Brene Brown, perfectionism is not the same thing as striving
to be your best. Perfectionism is not about healthy achievement
and growth. It's actually about shielding or protecting ourselves against blame,
against judgment or shame. That is really at the core
of what we're talking about today. But let's get our

(06:03):
basics down pat first before we jump in. Perfectionism in
psychology is essentially a personality trait in which an individual
is driven to appear, to feel, and to be perfect,
often at the expense of their self esteem. And it's
not just perfection as it relates to our grades. It's

(06:24):
perfection in all areas of life. Maybe you are a
big runner, a big athlete, you can have perfectionist qualities
and traits within that domain. Or when it comes to
our body image, or how much money we're making or
our success, it's all related to this inherent quality you
see perfectionism. It's not an encouraging voice in our head.

(06:49):
It's actually quite a negative and self critical little creature
that convinces us that if we're not achieving unattainable ideals
or unrealistic goals. We are a failure and amongst people
who have this trait, their self worth is often determined
by their capacity to reach these incredibly high personal standards,

(07:10):
and this causes us to push and push until we
either succeed, which is incredibly rare, or we quote unquote
fail and we burn out, resulting in this massive dip
in our sense of self worth and other behaviors like
procrastination and even depression and anxiety. So in this way,

(07:31):
it is highly maladaptive, maladaptive being a behavior that interferes
with our ability to perform daily activities because it encompasses
so many negative and self sabotaging aspects, like an intense
fear of failure, unrealistic standards, only focusing on results, and

(07:52):
being intensely critical of ourselves. This really fascinating article put
it in a great way. Perfections are held to this
strange double standard in our society, where they are simultaneously
admired for their achievements whilst also very much criticized, and

(08:12):
not just by external forces or other people, but by themselves.
So they receive all of this praise externally but internally
they're really struggling, and it's this double standard, especially when
it comes to something like academic achievement, which is universally
valued in our society. That creates a very difficult cycle

(08:34):
based on external reinforcement from society and then an internal
fear of failure, which just perpetuates the behavior. So if
you are listening to this, thinking, this is literally describing me.
This is me. Let's firstly dive a bit further into
some of the signs or problematic behaviors to look out for.

(08:58):
A big one is that you struggle to complete tasks
in a timely manner or when they need to be
done by. This has strong links to procrastination, which is
an aspect of perfectionism we'll touch on later, but essentially,
if you are a perfectionist, it's really hard to start something,

(09:19):
to finish something if you don't personally believe that it's perfect.
So it's a massive indicator not that you're lazy, but
that actually you set such high standards for yourself that
you can't even possibly begin to try and meet them.
You might also find it really hard to come back
from mistakes, and you ruminate on your failures rather than

(09:44):
your successes, which can create a very toxic headspace. Incredibly
toxic because if that little voice in your head is
always telling you that you've never done well enough, you've
never met your standards, it's going to be incredibly hard
to view yourself in a positive light. And you might
also have a hard time overlooking small mistakes and repeatedly

(10:07):
going over your work, redoing your task until it's perfect,
even if it takes hours and hours. Hence that maladaptive aspect.
You may also feel an immense, almost out of body
like pressure to live up to high expectations, both your

(10:28):
own and others, and additionally, you might also be hyper
sensitive to criticism or rejection. This is why perfectionism and
people pleasing go hand in hand, because perfectionists are highly
attuned to the expectations of others, and they have this

(10:51):
intense fear of upsetting or disappointing people like their parents,
people they respect society in general, meaning that they neglect
their own needs for the sake of other people. Your
identity might also be highly dependent on your accomplishments, and
you may say yourself as a really driven person, but

(11:14):
your failures mean a lot more to you in that
they are how you judge your character. So you might
admire yourself for being accomplished. Outwardly, you might seem highly driven,
but if someone was to take a look inside your brain,
it probably wouldn't be a pretty place to be, because

(11:37):
every failure to you means the world. Finally, you may
also have extremely high standards for others, which can put
a lot of pressure on your personal relationships if your
friends or your partner can never meet your unattainable expectations,
resulting in essentially relationship breakdown. These are obviously just a few,

(12:01):
but there are so many niche behaviors that are highly
correlated with individuals who are high in the perfectionist trait.
As a psychologist would say, of course, none of these
behaviors are deliberate. Perfectionism, like we mentioned at the very start,
is a personality trait, meaning that it and its associated

(12:22):
actions or habits are often innate and they have formed
unconsciously and beyond our control, which is what makes it
such a hard thing to treat. I think it's also
interesting to point out here that there is not just
one type of perfectionist, but there are three, and there

(12:44):
are two actually very important people We need to stop
and acknowledge here, and that is doctor Paul Hewitt and
doctor Gordon Flett. They are essentially the pioneers of the
large majority of research into perfectionism over the last couple
of decades, and one thing they found is that, like
most traits, perfectionism also exists on a spectrum, and it

(13:07):
can differ in presentation for different people. The three broad
categories of perfectionists that they have discovered observed, whatever world
you'd like to use for it are socially or social
prescribed perfectionists, other oriented perfectionists, and finally, self oriented perfectionist,

(13:28):
so socially prescribed perfectionism. This occurs in which someone is
incredibly self critical, They feel immense pressure to be the best,
and they worry that others are going to reject them,
particularly important respected people in their lives. I'm thinking parents,

(13:49):
I'm thinking teachers. Normally, it's perceived external standards, such as
academic expectations that can lead to this version of perfectionism
and the accompanying low confidence and anxiety that we often
associate with this characteristic perfectionists who are other oriented they

(14:10):
hold others to particularly high standards. It is very hard
to build relationships under these conditions, and it can be
really detrimental for social well being because one slight imperfection
in someone else that can cause this perfectionist this person
to completely shut them out. So it's highly detrimental. And finally,

(14:35):
we have the self oriented perfectionist. They are very organized,
they are very conscientious, they are very type A. They
set higher standards for themselves in their lives and their careers,
but they are also able to go after their goals.
So high self oriented perfectionism it's generally associated with the

(14:58):
most adaptive t correlated with things like greater productivity, success, assertiveness,
great focus. These people they show I guess, higher rates
of the positive emotions and the motivation and the successes
that we sometimes associate with perfectionism. Now, I don't personally

(15:23):
believe there is a healthy version of perfectionism, but if
there was to be one, it would be those who
are self oriented. You know, their relationships are not under scrutiny.
And most of the time, those who fall into this category,
they're not behaving in a way that's looking to fulfill
someone else's expectations but their own. However, there is a

(15:47):
caveat because regardless of what category you sit in, you're
still going to exhibit those core characteristics like a fear
of failure, placing incredible pressure on yourself or others, and
you're still at a risk of burnout and anxiety. So
now that we have a grasp on the basics, what

(16:09):
are the exact origins of perfectionism? Well, according to psychology,
the major ones are societal or familial factors, including early
childhood experiences that one always seems to be the corporate
but also things like personality and self concept, and finally

(16:31):
co morbid conditions like ADHD or OCD. First off, our upbringing,
this is going to play a large role in whether
you are someone who exhibits perfectionist traits or not, particularly
if you had parents or caregivers who had really high

(16:51):
standards for you, particularly academic standards. This has passed on
to you as you learn to internalize their expectations, especially
if their expectations were reinforced by punishment or variable reward,
because their beliefs are being reinforced by something you're either
wishing to avoid or wanting to obtain. We've spoken about

(17:15):
this before, I think many times, but we know that
young children, they have a really strong desire to please
their caregivers, because they are the source of our security,
the source of our support, and to an extent, our
self esteem. It's all drawn from our parents, as Freud

(17:37):
would say. And I think further to that children are
incredibly vulnerable, and they're also learning the ways of the world,
and their main point of reference on what is correct
is from their parents. So if your parents convince you
that perfectionism is what is expected, I have no other

(18:00):
point of reference to either confirm or deny this standard.
And if an adult tells a small child that they
are a failure, that they're not working hard enough, they're
not smart enough, they're not talented, that child will internalize
this message and they will believe that it's true and
continue to find evidence to support this point of view,

(18:23):
and continue to try and also find a way to
prove it wrong. It's this weird catch twenty two in
which we still believe that we are failures, but we
work so hard to prove ourselves wrong. An additional link
is that perfectionism can also be learned by children who
are growing up around really highly successful perfectionist parents. If

(18:48):
your parent is an incredibly successful athlete, maybe they were
really academically talented, and they tell you that they're a CEO,
they're doing great thingsing we model this behavior and this expectation,
and we implicitly look to be that way as well.

(19:08):
Perfectionism is also encouraged when children are exclusively praised for
their achievements rather than for their inherent value or their
efforts or their progress. There is a scene in The Help.
I know it's a strange caveat strange tangent, but there's
this scene where abling Viola Davis's character tells this young

(19:32):
girl that she is kind, that she is smart, that
she is important. And those are incredibly powerful affirmations to
tell a child, because they're about their core inherent value
rather than about what they can achieve, rather than about
their grades or how beautiful they are or how perfect

(19:53):
they are. Our innate self concept and our personality is
of course another factor personality. It's otherwise known as temperament,
and it's something that we are born with, and perfectionism
is after all a part of that, because it's a
personality trait. Of course, there are environmental factors, but you

(20:13):
would be surprised how much of it is contained in
our DNA. It's the age old debate of nature versus nurture,
and I think or when it comes to perfectionism, it
really is a mix of both. Finally, we did discuss
this before, but there are certain mental health conditions that

(20:34):
have a really strong causal relationship with perfectionism, in particular
OCD and ADHD. Perfectionism it's actually one of the most
common cognitive distortions reported in adults with ADHD. So there
have been studies that have shown a strong correlation between
perfectionism and impulsivity, which is another symptom of ADHD, and

(20:59):
together they form somewhat of a negative feedback loop in
which someone with ADHD will set impossible standards, they will
fail to meet them and make rass decisions out of frustration,
and these decisions often further reinforce not only this pattern

(21:20):
of behavior, but this idea that they're a failure, which
is really sad. It's incredibly sad, but it shows how
much of our brain really has something to do with this.
I think the link between perfectionism and OCD is a
little bit more obvious. Research has repeatedly shown that people

(21:42):
with perfectionist tendencies are much more likely to have OCD,
and the explanation that they give is that they're probably
linked to an imbalance of certain chemicals or neurotransmitters in
the brain, like dopamine and glutenmate, which is why our
brain can't really regulate our behaviors and has all these

(22:06):
weird structures around control and needing to control an outcome
and needing the outcome to be perfect or to a
certain standard. But I'm going to stop dilly dalling. What
I really want to talk about now is how perfectionism
and academic anxiety or performance interact. There have been so

(22:30):
many studies on this. When I tell you that it's unbelievable,
and it's even coined its own term. It's called academic perfectionism.
One study via the National Institute of Health found that
people with high perfectionistic worries experienced increased feelings of hopelessness

(22:50):
and a lack of control in the face of their
almost uncontrollable pursuit of perfectionism, resulting in paralysis and lower
academic performance. Now, when I say paralysis, it's not that
they were physically paralyzed. It's that their brain almost couldn't
convince them to perform an activity unless they knew it

(23:13):
was perfect. And that makes a lot of sense, right,
If you are severely concerned with your performance, it makes
it really hard to focus because nothing can be just
good enough. Sometimes it needs to be good enough, but
you won't allow yourself to do that. You need it
to be perfect, which is quite frankly, I think impossible.

(23:36):
So what happens is they find themselves completely stuck or
redoing something over and over again until it reaches their standard,
perhaps days after the you know, if it's an essay
or if it's an activity or a task is even due.
And it's been repeatedly acknowledged in a lot of literature

(23:58):
of late that perfectism, particularly amongst fifteen to twenty four
year olds, is on the rise. And what are most
people doing between those ages, Well, they're studying. And I
think this rise in academic perfectionism and anxiety really comes
down to the immense amount of cultural and societal pressure

(24:22):
that's been placed on us to be the best. You know,
the world these days is so focused on competition and success,
and that really fuels social comparison and the pursuit of
perfect grades and academic achievement. And this has a lot
of bleed on effects to young people, particularly when they're
in their prime and formative years and also undertaking some

(24:46):
form of study. If we are only looking at grades
and grades alone, we might be confused into thinking that
perfectionism is a positive quality, which we know it's we've
debunked that already, but in some ways academic perfectionism it
is positively correlated with academic performance, but it's also negatively

(25:10):
correlated with overall wellbeing. So people with this quality, with
this trait, they may be doing well on the outside,
everything looks great, but internally the pressure they place on
themselves is an immense burden that eats into their mental health,
eats into their relationships, their free time, their overall well being.

(25:35):
And what's really interesting about some of these studies is
that most students who had perfectionism were actually telling the
researchers that they were performing really poorly, or that they
weren't getting good grades, or that they weren't academically gifted,
when objectively they were. When they were asked to rate

(25:55):
that quality or their performance themselves, they still didn't see
them is good enough. And that's the catch twenty two
of academic perfectionism and perfectionism in general, nothing is ever
going to be good enough. Our status quo is to
view ourselves by our failures. Now, I promised i'd talk

(26:17):
about procrastination, because it is an essential component of perfectionism,
especially as it relates to academic anxiety. Procrastination, really it's
about putting things off, not because we're not capable, but
because we don't feel mentally prepared to perform or complete
the task. And what this sometimes comes down to is

(26:39):
self criticism, and of course the main culprit perfectionism. We
become overwhelmed by the idea that what we produce won't
be perfect, and therefore we habitually avoid even starting it
or doing it. The mentality is basically, I'm not going
to do something unless it's perfect, so I cannot even start.

(27:04):
And I remember a discussion I had with a friend
of mine back when we were university together. She was
one of these people who would leave essays to the
last minute. She would always be requesting extensions. I'd sit
down in the library with her for hours and then
realized by the time we'd left that she hadn't even
begun the essay we were planning to finish that day.

(27:26):
And God love her. She is one of the sweetest
people on this planet. But she said something to me
that really made me rethink what I now know were
her perfectionist tendencies, and that is that if she never tried,
she couldn't fail. She was so absorbed in being perfect,
and her self esteem was already weakened by this habit

(27:49):
that she became paralyzed by her standards and she couldn't
even attempt the thing that she was fearing. It's not
just our grades and our academic performance where this is
a problem, but a lot of other areas that are
pertinent to our twenties, like applying for graduate jobs, making
life choices such as or where to go to university,

(28:12):
where to live, even super minor questions and decisions, because
we get so caught up in this idea of this
needs to be perfect, this needs to be the right decision.
I cannot make a mistake, I cannot somehow put myself
on a path towards failure. And when you are in
this mentality, when you are stuck in a rut, it

(28:33):
can be so crushing. The truth is you can never
be perfect. Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's just
I guess reality and something I think we all learn
as we get older. But how can we integrate this
understanding into our everyday behavior and move past our perfectionist tendencies.

(28:57):
It's not a death sentence, it's not a life center.
There are things that we can do so all of
that and more In just a second. I've said it once,
I'm going to say it again. Life is not about
being perfect, and if you go through life believing that

(29:20):
it is, your happiness is always going to rest on
your next failure. And I can assure you that there
will be many, many in our twenties, many in our thirties,
many in our entire lives. So we need to learn
how to either live with that reality or manage our
perfectionism in a sustainable manner, and I personally would choose

(29:43):
the latter. There is a hard truth to swallow, though.
This isn't going to be easy. If our assumptions about
the origins of perfectionism are correct in that it is
derived from our upbringing and internal, unconscious elements of our
personality and character, these are hard things to change. You
cannot go back to your childhood and change how your

(30:05):
parents spoke to you. You cannot reach into your brain
and rearrange what it looks like in there, but it's
not impossible, and I do think the benefits definitely definitely
outweigh the effort imagine what it's going to be like
to do something and just be happy with it, rather
than fighting the urge to repeatedly go back and fix

(30:29):
things or stress for days about whether what you did
was perfect. It's really liberating to let go of some
of that anxiety and some of that stress. And there
are a few incredible methods that I would personally use
for this. I do use for this. I'm definitely someone
with perfectionist tendencies even when making these episodes. I'm just

(30:54):
going to break the fourth wall here, but I find
it so hard to relinquish control. And if something isn't
exactly how I want it to be, if someone says
something about how my voice was annoying or I pronounced
something wrong, I spend like days thinking over it and
wanting to change like this one small thing that like

(31:16):
either no one notices or like one to two people.
But I think it got a lot easier for me
when I realized that that it's just how my brain operates.
But also that I can control my cognitions and my
interpretation and my perspective of these events. A practice that
I've adopted is the eighty twenty rule. Now I don't

(31:38):
know where I heard this for the first time, but
since hearing about it, it is a massive part of
my life. And I googled it because I was like,
is this a big thing that I just have never like,
I've heard of it once and I've never gone back.
But no. It actually typically refers to the idea that
eighty percent of our results come from only twenty percent

(31:59):
of our efforts. I think it's called like the Parado
rule or something like that. But how I like to
think of it is that an outcome in which eighty
percent is perfect and the other twenty percent is okay
or average is still a good outcome If it saves
me time and it saves me anxiety. Striving for eighty
percent on a test or getting eighty percent of your

(32:22):
daily task done, it's better than zero percent. If we
let ourselves be paralyzed and that other twenty percent is negligent,
it doesn't matter. And I think this idea allows our
brain to compromise with itself. We don't need to know
entirely give up our standards. But when they are coming
at the expense of important things in life, like balance,

(32:45):
like friendship, and the time to actually enjoy the good,
joyful things, we should be okay with adjusting our expectations slightly.
So I always say to myself, eighty twenty rule, eighty
twenty rule. It's okay if eighty percent of it is
perfect and twenty percent of it is not exactly how
you would like it, but it's still got done. Another

(33:06):
defining feature of perfectionism, particularly when it comes to academic
perfectionism and academic anxiety, is this unhealthy focus on our
failures compared to our successes. This is what we call
a compulsive preoccupation, and when we only think about the
times that we haven't met alcohols or we have quote

(33:29):
unquote failed, it can really lead to a distorted self image.
A friend of mine told me about an incredible strategy
the other day called grab the bullet visualization. I don't
know if this is a real thing, but the way
she explained it to me was so powerful that I
had to share it. I was sitting down with her,
I was just talking about something that happened was this

(33:52):
tiny mistake, and I was obsessing over it. I had
this compulsive preoccupation and I couldn't get over it. And
she said to me, the idea that you need to
think of the visualization that you need to have is
that life is going to throw us a lot of
obstacles or so called bullets, and bullets are fast, but

(34:13):
when we slow down, we can effortlessly grab the bullet,
grab the failure and throw it aside. Failure is the bullet.
Slow down, take it in, learn the lesson, and imagine
yourself picking this tiny bullet from the air, not letting
it hit you, and throwing it away. You don't need

(34:36):
to keep it. That's what we need to do with failure.
Imagine yourself grabbing failure, in this case a bullet, so
that we can visualize it in the air, examining it
for a second, learning the lesson, and then being done
with it. And visualization, not just this exercise, but many
other types, is a fantastic psychological technique for refocusing our

(35:01):
thoughts to be productive by imagining them in a new
context or as manageable. So if you are a perfectionist,
it can be really good to visualize your problem, especially
as something that's a little bit ridiculous or imaginative. Positive
self talk is also such an important part of our toolkit,

(35:23):
and this really goes for everyone, even those who aren't
struggling with perfectionism or academic anxiety. It's essential, i think,
for successfully managing failure and minimizing the impact that our
unattainable standards have on our self respect, have on our
self esteem, have on our wellbeing. We are no strangers

(35:46):
to this idea on the podcast we talked about it recently,
actually in our episode on the psychology of Lucky Girl syndrome.
If you listen to that, you'll be familiar. But positive
self talk it comes from this discipline subdiscipline of psychology
called positive psychology, and it involves cultivating an internal dialogue

(36:07):
that makes you feel good about yourself, using phrases like
I am more than my accomplishments, I am an interesting person,
I am valuable, I am confident my future is not
defined by my failures. And treating these mantras that you
repeat every day or when you know when things get
tough or you face a setback can be life changing.

(36:30):
Remember the way that we speak to ourselves will impact
our behavior and will impact our perspective. I think it
also goes without saying this is a psychology podcast, after all,
But therapy can do wonders, especially if you get a
psychologist that specializes in cognitive behavioral therapy otherwise known as CBT.

(36:54):
Perfectionism is, after all, a thought pattern. It's a trait
that in influences our behaviors, our thought patterns, and therefore
how we view our problems and our failures and our successes.
But if you go back to the root cause, that
being our cognitions, and alter it to something more positive,

(37:16):
the flow on effects can be really powerful. So the
whole premise of CBT is that our behaviors influenced by
our thoughts. If we change our thoughts, if we break
them down, if we rationalize them, then our behavior will
change and we will get the positive outcomes that we want.
So I would really recommend it, especially if you are

(37:38):
a perfectionist who is particularly worried about academic anxiety or
anxiety really in any part of your life. Try and
find a therapist who specializes in CBT. It will take time,
but like I said before, you will begin to feel
so liberated these problems will not be problems for you anymore.

(38:00):
You won't feel that pressure to be perfect, and I
think the world just becomes a lot more enjoyable. Here
is your final reminder of the day. You do not
need to be perfect. We are facing this changing society
in which everyone is so concerned with success, with wealth,

(38:20):
with perfect grades, with impressive resumes, and it doesn't have
to be that way. You're allowed to sometimes fail. Nothing
in life is perfect. Love isn't perfect. Nature isn't perfect,
music isn't perfect, Art isn't perfect. And you are just
as beautiful and complex as those things. So you're allowed

(38:43):
to have some flaws. It just brings texture to your life.
It makes us much more interesting. I think also mistakes
and failures and flaws they build character. They teach us
incredible lessons. And it's about really thinking about is my
life life worth completely killing myself for an academic outcome,

(39:07):
for a particular grade, for something to be flawless. I
don't think it is. Life is not made up of
those things, you know, especially if you're someone in university
or even high school right now. I know there's a
lot of people under the age of twenty who listen
to this. I promise you that your grades are not

(39:27):
going to matter in five years, probably not even two.
Like I do not remember what I got on any
of my courses when I was at university. I don't remember,
you know, a test result that was only worth twenty
percent of one of my subjects. Like those things don't
matter to me anymore when I think back to that time.
What I do remember is the amazing friends that I met.

(39:51):
I do remember all the cool opportunities that I had
to do, exciting things to do, things that had nothing
to do with academic results. And I do just think
that's a worthwhile remind us sometimes we need to hear it.
I know that if you are a perfectionist, it's a
lot harder because it can be so innate. But I
would really encourage you to think about some of the

(40:13):
other options, think about how you can overcome this obstacle
and view life as imperfect. Thank you so much for
listening to today's episode. I hope you enjoyed it. I
hope you learned something. For all of my people out
there who are currently still in UNI, still in school,
still slugging your way, big congratulations. I do not think

(40:37):
I could go back and do another exam or write
another essay, it would just be oh my god awful. So,
especially if you're dealing with a bit of academic anxiety,
hopefully this provided you with an explanation as to why
and some of the next steps, or if you are
procrastinating a lot. Perfectionism is one explanation, so I hope

(40:59):
it can. I gave you something to think about. I
really enjoyed making this episode. If there is a particular
subject or idea or topic that you would like me
to cover, please follow me at that Psychology podcast on Instagram.
I love taking episode suggestions. I love when you guys
do my job for me and give me my ideas,

(41:20):
So please follow me over there. If you would like
to do so, send me a message. I would love
to hear from you. And as always, if you enjoyed
this episode, if you think that you have a friend,
or a family member, or a work colleague, anyone in
your life who needs to hear this, share it with them.
You could change their day, you could change their month,

(41:42):
you could change their life. Maybe not, but share it
along and as always, if you feel cold to do so,
leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever
you're listening right now. It helps the show to grow,
it helps to reach new people, and it also just
makes my day. Make me so happy to hear your
incredibly positive reviews. I do read them all, and sometimes

(42:05):
I get a little bit tiary. So if you want
to see me cry, that's the easiest way to do so.
As always, we will be back on Friday for another episode.
See you then.
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Host

Jemma Sbeghen

Jemma Sbeghen

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