May 5, 2023 • 44 mins
Many of us in our 20's have become disillusioned with the 9-5 lifestyle and the reality of working an office job for the rest of our lives. Psychology shows us that the 9-5 job is not only inefficient but unnatural, leaving us feeling burnt-out, unmotivated, detached from the things that matter and searching for an alternative that offers both freedom and flexibility. This week, I talk about my own journey of leaving behind my 9-5 job and pursuing the podcast full time; from why I made my decision, what the transition has been like and my advice and tips on how you can do the same. Listen now to understand why you should quit your 9-5.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,
the podcast where we talk through some of the big
life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they
mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show.
(00:27):
Welcome back to the podcast, near listeners, old listeners, wherever
you are in the world. Thank you for joining me
today for another episode, one that I am really fascinated by,
beyond excited for, and that I think is highly relevant
not only in my own life, but amongst many of
(00:48):
my fellow twenty something year olds. And that is a
life beyond the nine to five and how we can
kind of leave behind this lifestyle and this conception of
work to have more freedom and more flexibility. There has
been a lot of personal inspiration for this episode in
(01:08):
my life recently. If you listened to my episode on
taking Risks or you follow along with me on Instagram,
you will know that I have recently quit my nine
to five job to finally pursue the podcast full time,
and I'm so excited. I signed with iHeartRadio, who are
(01:31):
an incredible partner and an incredible home for this podcast.
Really believe in the ethos and the vision for the show,
and it's been something that I've wanted to do for
a while. This show, this podcast, this community is so
important to me, and it's grown from being just a
hobby to the only thing I really ever want to do.
(01:53):
I just love making content. I love being able to
have the freedom to explore different ideas, to read up
and research about all the psychology. It really is the
best job in the world. And my decision to do
this has also coincided with a lot of disillusionment I
feel that I have with the nine to five work
(02:16):
week and the nine to five lifestyle. I think a
lot of us in our twenties have become disillusioned with
this idea that our lives need to be defined by work,
particularly a nine to five office job. There has been
this massive shift where we have realized that there is
more to life than work, and there are actually alternatives
(02:40):
in which we can pursue our lives, pursue our hobbies,
enjoy what life has to offer, and also work flexibly
and be able to support ourselves. What many of us
in this generation are doing is pushing back against this
indoctrinated narrative that life needs to be this very linear
(03:02):
journey where we have to follow this very strict blueprint.
You know, we graduate high school, we go to university,
we get a nine to five job. We work this
same job until we're sixty sixty five years old, we retire,
and then we can really start to enjoy life when
our youth has already passed, when some of the best
days of our lives have actually been consumed by doing
(03:25):
all of this labor and working really hard for someone else.
But I also think we are being confronted with a
lot of seriously existential questions around job security and the
future of our planet and the world, and we're pushing
back against the narrative for more freedom, for more flexibility,
(03:46):
and for more joy. Life is so much more than work.
But sometimes we forget that because we have been in
some ways manipulated or brainwashed by generations of industrial culture
and societal pressure into thinking at work is the center
of our lives and the center of our universe. I
personally deeply disagree with that, and psychology proves this as
(04:10):
well and demonstrates to us how our lives greatly improve
in quality and our happiness improves as well when we
do have a more flexible working condition, and we have
time to pursue the things that we love, spend quality
time with family, out in nature, enjoying our hobbies, and
I think that's a life that we can all have.
(04:31):
There will be different alternatives. My path is not going
to be everyone's path, but for everyone there will be
an opportunity to create this lifestyle for yourself. This is
a generation that is going to do that. Those of
us in our twenties, I think are more acutely aware
of what else is out there, and we are willing
to explore that. And I want to encourage that today.
(04:53):
So I'm not trying to enlist you in some Ponzi
or pyramid scheme. I promise this is just my story,
and I know this is something that people are interested
in because obviously the nine to five job is no
longer attractive for many people. It's not necessarily about being
your own boss, but fitting work in around life rather
(05:16):
than life revolving around work. That's going to look different
for different people. But I do want to share my
experience today about how I have transitioned away from full
time work. I'm hoping this can provide some guidance and
also some information about how I made the choice, what
the impact has been on me, some of the psychology
(05:37):
behind why I felt my nine to five job was
not the best for my mental health or my well being,
and how you can do it too, as well as
what are some of the risks to be prepared for,
but ultimately why I think those risks are those that
you should be willing to take. So let's jump into
it and discuss why it may be time time to
(06:00):
leave the nine to five lifestyle behind for good. I
think implicittly, we know that most office jobs and nine
to fives are not very natural. We would much rather
be out in nature or creating something beautiful, spending time
(06:21):
with family and friends, or simply having the hours in
our day to actually get through our to do list
and do the things that we need to keep us alive,
like grocery shopping. The nine to five removes us from
these simple pleasures because it capitalizes on our most productive
waking hours. Nine to five jobs are a relic from
(06:44):
the past when manufacturing jobs dominated the workforce and was
a primary industry in a lot of areas and regions.
So Henry ford Ford like the car, he was the
creator of the Ford I guess he was one of
the major business owners to come up with this idea
of the standard forty hour work week, and this was
(07:07):
based on the demands he was placing on his factory
workers and his manufacturing lines to meet supply and demand
requirements for those who wanted to buy his vehicles. That
is no longer applicable in most industries. The pandemic in particular,
I think, has shown us, as well as many innovative
companies and even countries, that allowing people to have more
(07:30):
flexible hours, or work remotely, or even adopt a four
day work week not only increases productivity and innovation, but
also overall employee health. The problem with the nine to five,
as I see it, and as psychology sees it, is
that it takes up our main productive weeking hours and
(07:51):
capitalizes on this so that when we're done, we feel exhausted. Also,
it never really is a nine to five like we're sold.
It's much more like an eight to six or longer
when we account for things like overtime and our commute
as well. In my last job, I think it was
actually a rarity for me to finish at five. I
(08:11):
worked in consulting, which is infamously known for its very
long hours and high pressure environments, and my days were
always a lot longer than I had anticipated. Regular office
hours they pose a pretty serious threat to our mood
and our mental health for a couple of reasons. So,
(08:33):
according to a study conducted at Oxford, these hours are
not aligned to our circadian rhythm, which dictates when we
are going to feel the most productive, most active, and
most energized. Most of us can actually not fully focus
before ten am, according to this research, and forcing our
(08:54):
brains to jump straight into an activity straight after sleep
can just leave us feeling more exhausted. Beyond that, I
think that a lot of these jobs also encourage inactivity.
If we are sedentary, that is bad for our physical health.
Sitting down in an office chair, even if your office
encourages standing desks or something like that, you're still standing
(09:18):
still or sitting still for most of the day. That's
not great for our body. Our bodies were made to move,
they were made to be active, so encouraging a lifestyle
in which that is not always possible is going to
put our physical health at risk. They can also be
so draining, especially when you're doing something that is not
(09:39):
fulfilling when we think about it, logically, we spend like
sixty percent of our days in an office, almost eight
hours or more. And if you feel stressed, if you
feel unfulfilled, that is ultimately going to bleed into your
overall approach to life and how we're feeling. Stress in
(09:59):
particular has a long term impact on our body. It's
associated with high cordisile levels, which is the stress hormone,
and when that remains in our system for too long,
or when it's repeatedly activated, this impacts on our immune system.
It makes us more susceptible to certain illnesses and infections.
(10:19):
It also impacts how fast our body ages, and it's
linked to a number of mental health conditions. I think
stress and the stress associated with nine to five office
culture is one component of this equation, but the other
is boredom. Perhaps boredom I think is the opposite of stress.
It's when your work is both unfulfilling and also totally
(10:43):
tedious and boring. I'm sure we have all had this
experience where we have had to do something that our
brain could probably do whilst we were asleep. And our
brain deserves stimulation, it deserves a rich environment in twenty fourteen,
these psychologists at the University of Virginia, they actually examined this,
(11:06):
but they did it by accident, so it was a
really simple experiment, and they placed subjects in a room
by themselves with no distractions for ten minutes, and what
they wanted to see was our imagination. They wanted to
see what our brains would create and give the subjects
possibilities to really engage in some of that mental creativity
(11:27):
and see what they came up with. But what they
actually found was that without stimulation, many of the participants
became incredibly uncomfortable, to the point that when they ran
this study again, they gave participants the option to self
administer electric shocks and most of them actually did it
(11:48):
just to pass the time. Boredom causes us so much
discomfort in our brains in our bodies that it can
actually increase our drive to take part in behavi we
know are harmful. In the case of this research, that
was actually self inflicting physical pain. But in the real
(12:10):
world we are also more likely to see higher rates
of risky behaviors like substance abuse, excessive drinking, gambling, and
even reckless driving amongst people who are suffering from excessive
boredom like that associated with a tedious, boring job. It
(12:30):
also increases our irritability, the number of negative emotions we experience,
and our relationships. I think that is such a compelling
argument for why we should be seeking out an alternative,
especially if you are working in a job that is
entirely unfulfilling, where you feel completely drained. You feel like
(12:50):
you are not contributing to your society and also not
even contributing to making your life better. We get one life,
why not spend it making amazing memories, spending quality time
doing the things we love, having flexibility and freedom beyond
(13:12):
the office. That brings me to my next reason. I
deeply believe that the nine to five job it causes
us to become detached or separated for what truly matters.
Work doesn't matter, work, really, it doesn't matter. It's a
paycheck in my mind. Maybe that's because I've never really
(13:34):
worked in an environment where I've been particularly motivated. You know,
my podcast doesn't actually feel like work. It's something that
I'm deeply passionate about, and maybe that's how you feel
about your job. But I think what can often happen
is we become so invested and tied up in the
goals of our company or the goals that we have
(13:55):
around work, that it causes us to forget about what
truly matters. We all have stories of people we know
who work long hours, not just because they're required to,
but because their work has become their personality, and it's
not their fault. When you are required to spend the
majority of your hours doing something, our brain is going
(14:17):
to have a cognitive dissonance, and it's going to begin
to convince us that we're actually happy in that environment
and integrate it into part of our identity. Nine to
five jobs they also just simply take us away from
nature and new experiences and time to do things that
we love. It's not just the hours, right, It's not
(14:37):
just that nine to five are our primary waking hours.
It's the fact that most of us only get four
weeks of holiday time, four weeks to actually go out
and explore our environment, to make new memories with the
people we love. That was really compelling for me when
I was making my decision. But before I get to
(14:57):
my experience, I do just want to bring up this
other theory which I really believe in, and that is
that the nine to five job and office jobs in particular,
actually separate us from our instinctial urges, and from an
evolutionary standpoint, they are highly unnatural. So our ancestors, our
(15:18):
very early ancestors, they spent their days problem solving and
roaming around, exploring new environments, foraging and hunting and being
stimulated by multiple things in their environment. They had to
use different parts of their brains, different parts of their
bodies to survive and to essentially will live and support
(15:41):
their kin and their children and their offspring. And what
that led to was a very well adapted, complex brain,
the same brain that we still have today. And our
brain wants the same things. It wants to be entertained.
It wants to problem solve, It wants to be able
to explore and use its senses and use its functions
(16:04):
to fulfill our goals and our desires and our objectives.
When we put our brain into an environment that is
not conducive to that, like a very stale office, or
into ours that don't actually fit around our circadian rhythm
and our natural urges, we cut ourselves off from those instincts,
(16:25):
from our inherent nature. Obviously, it's nice to have security.
Our priorities have obviously changed. We no longer need to
go and forage or gather or hunt our food. It's
a great, great step forward. I don't think I would
have survived in that environment. But I do also believe
(16:47):
that it's been taken too far to a point where
sometimes our jobs don't even give us the financial freedom
to afford the things that we need, and yet they
take up so much of our time. This is where
my disillusionment stemmed from, and I want to talk about
my experience just for a little bit here. I think
I have always known that the nine to five job
(17:12):
wasn't going to be for me. I always had these
dreams about starting my own business, or being an entertainer,
or doing something that gave me more flexibility and room
to explore. But I graduated from university and the next
natural step for me was to go and get a job.
(17:32):
And at the time the job that I got, I
thought that was my dream job. I genuinely was elated.
I was so excited when I knew that I was
going to be starting with this company, and they were
a great company, they were amazing. I do genuinely love
my coworkers and some of the things I was able
to work on, but a massive part of me also
(17:54):
felt really, really unfulfilled. I said it before, but I
was working in consulting and the hours they are not
nine to five, they are for me sometimes it was
like seven am to nine pm. That did not give
me time to enjoy my life, like none at all,
and I was quite frankly miserable. I was really suffering.
(18:14):
I wasn't sleeping, I never had time to exercise. I
was trying to squeeze in time to socialize with my friends.
Normally that went, you know, going out for drinks after work,
which is always fun, but I kind of wanted a
little bit more. I wanted to be able to go
to the beach with them, or go to an art gallery,
or do something a little bit more fulfilling and productive.
(18:37):
And I was finding that I did not have that opportunity.
Alongside that I was doing my podcast alongside working, and
I know that that was a self inflicted burden, but
it just ate into all of my time that I
would usually be devoting to my hobbies, and it was
a huge adjustment, one that I think I never really
(18:59):
did adjust to I said it before, but I was
genuinely miserable. I was so sad, I was depressed. I
really felt incredibly unfulfilled. I felt so unfulfilled, and I
was blessed enough to have this thing, this podcast, that
I knew I wanted to do full time because this
(19:21):
was what made me feel alive, this was what made
me feel motivated. I can spend twelve hours a day
working on this show because I feel so happy doing
that and content and I feel like I'm making a difference.
But spending twelve fourteen hours working for someone else in
an office doing tedious tasks was just it, wasn't it.
(19:43):
And the interesting thing was, whilst I was going through
this experience, I was having so many conversations with my
friends who felt the exact same way, and some of
them actually took the leap and decided to go out
on their own or do something different. I think it
was this one conversation I had with my friend where
(20:03):
I realized how quickly the last three years of my
life had gone by. And I was looking through my
camera role and yes there was a highlight reel, but
most of the time it was empty. It was empty
of experiences. It was empty of fulfillment. And so many
people in my life were saying the same thing. So
many people in their twenties were becoming so disillusioned with
(20:26):
this idea that we had been sold. It almost felt
like a bit of a trojan horse, like we had
been offered this amazing idea of security and of a
purpose and of financial freedom, and none of those things
were really coming true for us. I have friends who
were working ridiculous hours for such little pay. Like we
(20:47):
sat down and it was when you account for the
hours they work over time, compared to their base salary,
they were making less than minimum wage. That is a
hard pill to swallow. That is a hard dream to
keep persons doing if you never feel like you are
getting any reward. So I decided to quit. I decided
(21:07):
to leave it behind. And it was really terrifying. I
think that, like many of us, my family and the
culture and the society around me had never really shown
me success stories of what it would look like if
I didn't pursue this way of life, what it would
look like to exist outside the realm of the nine
(21:29):
to five. So it was terrifying. It was genuinely, really terrifying,
and I wished that I had someone who had done
it before me, who could have sat me down and
said it's all going to be okay. And now I'm
that person. I'm that person for anyone out there who
was thinking should I do this? The answer is yes.
(21:50):
The answer is yes. My whole life and my attitude
towards life has completely changed with this transition, and it
ranges from really small things like I found that I'm
eating better because I'm not constantly overworked and just looking
for something that is convenient. I have time to actually
invest in putting good food into my body. I have
(22:11):
time to exercise. The other day, I went for a
walk in the sun, and I realized that like the
last two three years, except for on the weekends, there
were so many days where I never went outdoors. And
that just felt so unnatural for me, because that is
how we are meant to exist. We are meant to
be outside, we are meant to be exploring nature, and
(22:34):
just having that opportunity to do that was such a
small joy and it was so beautiful. I will say
I'm not working less hours. I think I'm working more,
but that's just because I'm more motivated than ever to
just explore and put out amazing content and write great episodes.
I just can't stop myself. I'm a little bit of
(22:55):
a perfectionist and a workaholic in that way. But I
realized the hours were kind of never the problem. It
was my sense of fulfillment and it was my sense
of flexibility. And that's the most beautiful thing that I
think this lifestyle offers is that you can decide when
you wake up. You can decide how much effort you
(23:15):
really put in, which is I guess correlated with your
output in a way that you can't do when you're
working in an office and people require things from you.
But you can also set your own schedule the other day.
I know I'm giving so many examples here, but when
I moved to Sydney, the thing that was so attractive
to me was being able to go to the beach,
and I would only be able to go on the weekends,
(23:36):
and now I can go in the middle of the day.
That freedom is so beautiful. That freedom is like insanely
special to me. To be able to actually prioritize the
things in my life that I want to do. I
know it's another common experience whereby one of my friends
said this to me the other day. We make this
money at our nine to five jobs. It's a secure wage.
(23:59):
It's a secure in which I think we cannot understate.
But then we actually don't have time to spend it
because nothing's really open after five pm. The sun is set.
You can't You know, you can online shop, you can
do those things, but those are not as gratifying as
being able to go out and do things with your
friends and actually spend the money in a way that
(24:21):
you want to, rather than just on one holiday or
one trip a year. So I think the main thing,
and the main message I want to communicate is that
the risk has been worth it for me. I have
been able to transform my life in a way that
I always dreamed of, in a way that is so
much better for my lifestyle and so productive. I will say,
(24:44):
maybe none of this is aligning with your experience. Some
people love their jobs, they love their coworkers. They do
find ways to balance their work and their life in
order to prioritize the things they do enjoy doing. And
if that is you, I think that that is incredible.
But I think as well, there will be at least
(25:05):
one time or one point in our lives where that
way of living is called into question and we're going
to look for a different way forward. There's another thing
I want to say, and that is I don't want
to disregard that this is a privilege. Not everyone has
this opportunity. They need the security of full time work
(25:25):
to support children, to pay mortgages, to pay their bills,
to put food on the table. And I understand that
I also have to support myself and I have gotten
really lucky. I think that kind of goes without saying.
But what I really am trying to say is that
is the nine to five work week really the best
(25:46):
that society can come up with? And if you have
the opportunity to work more flexible hours to have that freedom,
would you take it? And I think our answer is yes,
because inherently we know that what we are put in
our brains and our minds and our bodies through is
not natural or efficient. Society isn't what it used to be,
(26:08):
and we have adapted, so our work should as well.
Even stable jobs no longer provide the security that we
are often sold or that we crave. Think about how
many news articles there are a week about people being
laid off from companies that they've worked for for years,
and even massive players like Google, they still can't provide
(26:32):
the security of full time, forever employment that's been sold
to us as part of this steal, this steal whereby
we exchange the best hours and the best years of
our life for security, and that's not even promised. The world,
I think, has also become more globalized and innovative and entrepreneurial.
The rise of the internet and social media and technology
(26:55):
means that our income is no longer tied to a
concrete office space that we have to habitually return to.
So what I want to step into next is when
we can identify that it's time to leave this routine
and break away. What the risks entails, and also what
some of my personal fears were and still are. But
(27:19):
how to be prepared to enter into that world and
that lifestyle of more freedom. When do we know that
it's time to go. That's a big question and I
don't know if I can answer it, But there are
a few telltale signs that I think it's time for
you to take the risk. The first is when your
(27:41):
job is negatively impacting your mental health. There are some
things that we're willing to tolerate, right Like there is
discreete times in our lives where we know we are
going to go through more acute levels of stress and anxiety,
or even just randomly. We all go through our own
mental health peaks and troughs. That's a part of life.
(28:03):
But when you can identify that it is your work
that is correlated to those mental health struggles, there is
nothing worth jeopardizing that for absolutely nothing. I've been there,
I've done that, and I've come out the other side.
And when I look back, all I can say is
that hindsight gives you a completely different perspective. And I
(28:24):
wish that when I was going through those periods, when
I could identify that it was my job that was
causing all of that distress, I'd made the call sooner
to walk away. Your mental health is the most important thing.
There is always another alternative, There is always another job,
There is always another opportunity that you can take. I
(28:47):
think the second reason is when you feel a calling
for something else. I know that sounds really wishy washy.
It's not incredibly tangible. We can't always tell when a
feeling is right, but you need to trust your intuition.
And intuition is basically our brain paying subconscious attention to
(29:07):
things that we don't always consciously recognize. It's the age
old saying to trust your gut, and I truly do
believe that when we have a compelling instinct to take
a risk or to do something against the grain, something different,
it is our responsibility to explore that or we risk
(29:28):
regretting it. If you listened to my episode on why
we should take risks in our twenties, you'll have heard
the study already, but it is so powerful for me.
These researchers they found that people are more likely to
regret the actions that they didn't take, or the decisions
that they walked away from or didn't make, compared to
(29:49):
those that they did. That was one of the final
straws for me, actually reading that study and realizing that
although there was a lot at stake things go wrong,
the chances that I would regret my decision were going
to be a lot higher if I passed up this
opportunity rather than if I ran towards it. It's also
(30:11):
worth acknowledging that you are an incredibly adaptive person. Generations
of your ancestors have survived and survived much worse things
to get you to this point. There is always a solution,
There is always a way forward. Even if things go wrong,
you will find a way through, and you don't want
(30:31):
to risk that idea of what if things had gone well,
what if this had worked out. Another reason it may
be time to leave your job to think about a
life beyond the nine to five is if you feel
undervalued and overlooked, that is terrible for our self esteem
and it bleeds into our well being and our health
(30:53):
and how we treat other people. If you're working in
a job where you are doing so much more, you
are putting in the hours, and you are not getting
the credit you deserve, there is no point staying there.
There is another company that will treat you with respect.
But you can also be your own boss and show
yourself the respect that you deserve because it's coming from you.
(31:16):
This next reason, I know it's not a new one
everywhere or live in my TikTok or live in my Instagram.
I see this idea of the side hustle. So essentially,
it is an activity or a kind of a job
that you work beyond your nine to five that provides
you with a second income. I've been skeptical about this.
(31:37):
I was like, some of these do not seem real.
I'm not even gonna look into this. But then I
was like, I guess my podcast was somewhat of a
side hustle, even though I really wasn't making any money
until recently. Side hustles can actually be anything. They can
be anything, and they don't even need to make you money.
But if there is a way to make money and
(31:59):
to support you yourself with that, even if it's going
to make or take more effort and time, you should
do it because you could produce a higher payoff. And
my final reason is no reason at all. If you
are just called to live differently, you should do it.
This is your life, No one owns it. You do
(32:22):
not owe anything to anyone. You are solely responsible for
what you want to do and what you want to
achieve and the kind of life that you want to live.
That is your responsibility. So if you feel called to
live differently, you don't need a reason. You may love
your workplace, you may be getting paid a lot, but
it just doesn't align with your priorities or your vision
(32:45):
for your life, it may be time to consider whether
there is another alternative. So the next stage is you've
made the decision, you're leaving the cozy nine to five
or office job life behind. What's next is what's the
next steps here. We're not going to be naive or
(33:06):
blase here. Leaving behind the security of a frequent and
consistent paycheck and full time hours is going to be scary,
and there are some factors to consider. I cannot tell
you how many hours and nights I've spent considering every
way that this could go wrong. How I could be
(33:27):
broke by thirty. I could lose my voice and no
longer work. That's like a crazy thing to me. I
could get sued, I could lose my inspiration, I could
lose my passion for this. That's probably the scariest one.
Or you know, one day people just aren't interested anymore.
But the thing that I think of when I'm thinking
(33:49):
these things and when I'm finding myself in a spiral
or really ruminating, is that even when I this wasn't
my job, even when I was making no money, I
was still doing this because I loved it. And if
I'm doing something I love, maybe it's naive, but I
do think that nothing can go wrong. There will always
be a way. When there's a will, there's a way.
(34:10):
But I also chose to be realistic. There is you know, daydreaming,
and there is fantasy thinking, and sometimes that naivety can
get us in trouble. So I put some things in
place before I took the leap. This is just my perspective,
this is what I chose to do. You can take
my advice or leave it, as is always the case.
But if you are serious about leaving the nine to
(34:33):
five and corporate lifestyle behind, these are some tangible and
valuable steps that I think you can take to ensure
yourself more long term security. The first one is to
do with money. You need to have at least three
to six months of money saved up to cover your
expenses or some fall back or some form of financial
(34:54):
security that you can fall back on. It's a sad
reality that we need money to live, but it is reality.
You need to be able to take care of your health,
of your dependence. Maybe you have a mortgage or just
your bills. So you don't want to be in a
situation in which you're really desperate or in which you
are forced to go back on your desires or go
(35:17):
back on your goal or your intentions. So an easy
way to do that is to make sure that you
have enough money to saved up if things go wrong,
and it will also just provide you with a greater
sense of security so that you feel you can take
the risk. This may take time. It took me, I
think just under like eight months to get to this point,
(35:38):
so I really wouldn't advise listening to this episode and
going and giving your four weeks tomorrow. I think it
is important to be realistic, but this really helped me
to know that even if everything went wrong, I still
would have a bit of a buffer to get back
on my feet and to pay my rent and do
all the things that I needed to do. I also
(35:58):
think this grows hand in and with having a good
look at what you are spending your money on. This
is advice for any transition, but especially one that comes
with financial risk. I sat down, I went through all
my bank statements, and oh my goodness, I spent money
on so many ridiculous things. I found like a forty
(36:19):
dollars order for slime, and I distinctly remember buying this
slime like a few like a few months back. But
I was like, that is I do not need that slime.
There are things that I can cut out of my
daily expenses, of my luxury purchases. I don't think slime
is a luxury, but whatever that means for you, that
is going to make me feel more secure and more
(36:39):
able to provide myself with financial security. So have a
good look at what you can maybe cut out, what
maybe you will have to give up, and if you're
willing to give those things up or if you I
guess what state you need to be and to not
have to do those things and have a game plan.
There is nothing worse than stepping into a new and
novel situation and having no idea of your way forward.
(37:04):
There is a healthy level of risk, and then there
is an unhealthy level of risk, and I think the
distinction there is having somewhat of an idea of where
you're going to next. So I made sure that I
had written up a game plan. I had an idea
of what I was going to do on even in
my day to day, what my priorities and my focus was,
(37:27):
and what my long term goals were, and making sure
that I was oriented towards that and making sure that
my decision was actually aligned with this vision I had
for my life and my game plan. The other thing
to do, especially if you're leaving a big company or
a corporate job, is to end on good terms. Worst
(37:48):
case scenario, you can go back to that job, and
you can go back to that security if you leave
on bad terms. If you leave on bad terms, I
think you're just a eleminate, a bit of a security blanket.
You eliminate something that could catch you if you fall.
So most companies would love to have you back. They
don't want to invest, however much money it costs to
(38:11):
train someone new. So make sure that you have that
backup plan and leave on good terms. In the back
of your mind. It will also make you feel a
lot more secure and stable in your decision. Understand how
you're going to create routine and a support network or
community around this new path. I'm not going to sugarcoat this.
(38:34):
It can be really lonely, especially in this industry and
with my job. It's like this is a solo enterprise,
This is a solo pursuit. There is not much of
a community around podcasting, at least in Australia. I have
had the benefit and the pleasure of being able to
meet some other people who are doing this as their work,
(38:56):
but that was intentional. I knew that I was someone
who needed community around me. I am an extrovert. I
need people who are who I can complain about my
work problems to who are going to be there for me.
So that was one of the biggest challenges moving away
from the solid structure of a nine to five job,
(39:17):
was knowing that I would have to say goodbye to
that in build community and wanting to find an alternative.
I think also, this is another financial one. Maybe I
should have said this earlier. First, we have a realistic
expectation of if this is a side hustle or a
business that you're starting, what that's going to cost. There
(39:38):
are some upfront costs of some long term costs that
I didn't expect. But also, don't stop putting money towards
your superannuation or your retirement. This was advice that my
mom gave me. Shout out to my mom. She's an economist,
she provides great financial advice. But in Australia we have
this thing called superannuation and your employer immediately has to
(40:01):
put money into that fund for you. I didn't think
about this, but when I stopped working a nine to
five job, I'm my employer. Now I have to put
money towards that. So that's a big thing to consider. Obviously,
there are financial considerations. There are a lot of other considerations.
If you have children, consider the impact on them. If
(40:22):
you have a mortgage, consider whether you can pay your mortgage,
or whether this might be too much of a risk.
But risks are always going to be there. They are
inherent in every part of our life, every single facet
and element. So it's about what level of risk you're
willing to tolerate for a greater reward. And this is
(40:44):
just one woman's opinion, but I do think that this
is one of the greatest choices you can make us
twenty year olds, us in this generation. I think we
know that nine to five work is not the fantasy,
it's not the dream that was sold to us. So
we're looking for something else, and it's possible. We want
(41:07):
to enjoy our lives. You only have one of them,
and being able to work flexibly, work remotely, be your
own boss is such a rewarding alternative and I said
it before, but I just really want to say it again,
regardless of if you're listening to this and being like, actually,
you know, I don't think I'm willing to take this risk.
(41:28):
I'm going to stay in my job. It doesn't matter.
Life is not work. Your life should not have to
exist in the corners around your work hours. Life is
the thing that happens to you every day. It's the
thing that is made up of beautiful joys and beautiful
memories and incredible connections. That is the most valuable thing
(41:51):
to me. And at the end of the day, regardless
of the financial risks, regardless of my fears, that was
something that I was really looking forward to, and that
was something that was really compelling and motivating for me
that I would be able to enjoy my life. So
I hope that leaves you with a little bit of
(42:11):
wisdom and something to contemplate. I will say it one
more time. I think it's worth saying. It's worth acknowledging.
I am coming from a place of extreme privilege, and
I just want to say I am so grateful. I'm
so grateful. Every day I wake up and I just
cannot believe that this is my reality from a small
idea I had back when I was at UNI to
(42:34):
having so many of you who listen every week. You
have really changed my life. You have like this would
not be possible without the people who show their support
and who listen to my show and who encourage me
so Thank you so much. It means the world. I
really don't think I could really ever thank you enough.
(42:54):
And I hope that I can continue to just put
out even better content, make even more episodes, connect with
more of you, and just see what's out there, what
science and psychology is doing, how it applies to our twenties,
and keep building up this guidebook for people all over
the world. So I think that's all we have time
for today. Sorry I went on a bit of an
(43:15):
emotional rant, but I think it needed to be said.
I am very grateful. If you did enjoy this episode,
feel free to share it along to a friend who
might need to hear it, And if you do feel
cool to do so, please feel free to leave a
five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you are
listening right now. It helps this show to grow and
(43:38):
I really appreciate it. I read all of your reviews
every single one of them, and they are just so
personal and beautiful to me, so thank you for that support.
If you have an episode suggestion, if you have questions,
if you just want to give some feedback, please feel
free to follow me at that Psychology Podcast on Instagram.
I post a lot of behind this scenes content over there,
(44:01):
and I'm always looking for new ideas for what you
want me to cover. So thank you so much for
listening to this episode. And here's your daily reminder to
quit your job. And I'll be back next week with
another episode.
Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,
the podcast where we talk through some of the big
life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they
mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show.
(00:27):
Welcome back to the podcast, near listeners, old listeners, wherever
you are in the world. Thank you for joining me
today for another episode, one that I am really fascinated by,
beyond excited for, and that I think is highly relevant
not only in my own life, but amongst many of
(00:48):
my fellow twenty something year olds. And that is a
life beyond the nine to five and how we can
kind of leave behind this lifestyle and this conception of
work to have more freedom and more flexibility. There has
been a lot of personal inspiration for this episode in
(01:08):
my life recently. If you listened to my episode on
taking Risks or you follow along with me on Instagram,
you will know that I have recently quit my nine
to five job to finally pursue the podcast full time,
and I'm so excited. I signed with iHeartRadio, who are
(01:31):
an incredible partner and an incredible home for this podcast.
Really believe in the ethos and the vision for the show,
and it's been something that I've wanted to do for
a while. This show, this podcast, this community is so
important to me, and it's grown from being just a
hobby to the only thing I really ever want to do.
(01:53):
I just love making content. I love being able to
have the freedom to explore different ideas, to read up
and research about all the psychology. It really is the
best job in the world. And my decision to do
this has also coincided with a lot of disillusionment I
feel that I have with the nine to five work
(02:16):
week and the nine to five lifestyle. I think a
lot of us in our twenties have become disillusioned with
this idea that our lives need to be defined by work,
particularly a nine to five office job. There has been
this massive shift where we have realized that there is
more to life than work, and there are actually alternatives
(02:40):
in which we can pursue our lives, pursue our hobbies,
enjoy what life has to offer, and also work flexibly
and be able to support ourselves. What many of us
in this generation are doing is pushing back against this
indoctrinated narrative that life needs to be this very linear
(03:02):
journey where we have to follow this very strict blueprint.
You know, we graduate high school, we go to university,
we get a nine to five job. We work this
same job until we're sixty sixty five years old, we retire,
and then we can really start to enjoy life when
our youth has already passed, when some of the best
days of our lives have actually been consumed by doing
(03:25):
all of this labor and working really hard for someone else.
But I also think we are being confronted with a
lot of seriously existential questions around job security and the
future of our planet and the world, and we're pushing
back against the narrative for more freedom, for more flexibility,
(03:46):
and for more joy. Life is so much more than work.
But sometimes we forget that because we have been in
some ways manipulated or brainwashed by generations of industrial culture
and societal pressure into thinking at work is the center
of our lives and the center of our universe. I
personally deeply disagree with that, and psychology proves this as
(04:10):
well and demonstrates to us how our lives greatly improve
in quality and our happiness improves as well when we
do have a more flexible working condition, and we have
time to pursue the things that we love, spend quality
time with family, out in nature, enjoying our hobbies, and
I think that's a life that we can all have.
(04:31):
There will be different alternatives. My path is not going
to be everyone's path, but for everyone there will be
an opportunity to create this lifestyle for yourself. This is
a generation that is going to do that. Those of
us in our twenties, I think are more acutely aware
of what else is out there, and we are willing
to explore that. And I want to encourage that today.
(04:53):
So I'm not trying to enlist you in some Ponzi
or pyramid scheme. I promise this is just my story,
and I know this is something that people are interested
in because obviously the nine to five job is no
longer attractive for many people. It's not necessarily about being
your own boss, but fitting work in around life rather
(05:16):
than life revolving around work. That's going to look different
for different people. But I do want to share my
experience today about how I have transitioned away from full
time work. I'm hoping this can provide some guidance and
also some information about how I made the choice, what
the impact has been on me, some of the psychology
(05:37):
behind why I felt my nine to five job was
not the best for my mental health or my well being,
and how you can do it too, as well as
what are some of the risks to be prepared for,
but ultimately why I think those risks are those that
you should be willing to take. So let's jump into
it and discuss why it may be time time to
(06:00):
leave the nine to five lifestyle behind for good. I
think implicittly, we know that most office jobs and nine
to fives are not very natural. We would much rather
be out in nature or creating something beautiful, spending time
(06:21):
with family and friends, or simply having the hours in
our day to actually get through our to do list
and do the things that we need to keep us alive,
like grocery shopping. The nine to five removes us from
these simple pleasures because it capitalizes on our most productive
waking hours. Nine to five jobs are a relic from
(06:44):
the past when manufacturing jobs dominated the workforce and was
a primary industry in a lot of areas and regions.
So Henry ford Ford like the car, he was the
creator of the Ford I guess he was one of
the major business owners to come up with this idea
of the standard forty hour work week, and this was
(07:07):
based on the demands he was placing on his factory
workers and his manufacturing lines to meet supply and demand
requirements for those who wanted to buy his vehicles. That
is no longer applicable in most industries. The pandemic in particular,
I think, has shown us, as well as many innovative
companies and even countries, that allowing people to have more
(07:30):
flexible hours, or work remotely, or even adopt a four
day work week not only increases productivity and innovation, but
also overall employee health. The problem with the nine to five,
as I see it, and as psychology sees it, is
that it takes up our main productive weeking hours and
(07:51):
capitalizes on this so that when we're done, we feel exhausted. Also,
it never really is a nine to five like we're sold.
It's much more like an eight to six or longer
when we account for things like overtime and our commute
as well. In my last job, I think it was
actually a rarity for me to finish at five. I
(08:11):
worked in consulting, which is infamously known for its very
long hours and high pressure environments, and my days were
always a lot longer than I had anticipated. Regular office
hours they pose a pretty serious threat to our mood
and our mental health for a couple of reasons. So,
(08:33):
according to a study conducted at Oxford, these hours are
not aligned to our circadian rhythm, which dictates when we
are going to feel the most productive, most active, and
most energized. Most of us can actually not fully focus
before ten am, according to this research, and forcing our
(08:54):
brains to jump straight into an activity straight after sleep
can just leave us feeling more exhausted. Beyond that, I
think that a lot of these jobs also encourage inactivity.
If we are sedentary, that is bad for our physical health.
Sitting down in an office chair, even if your office
encourages standing desks or something like that, you're still standing
(09:18):
still or sitting still for most of the day. That's
not great for our body. Our bodies were made to move,
they were made to be active, so encouraging a lifestyle
in which that is not always possible is going to
put our physical health at risk. They can also be
so draining, especially when you're doing something that is not
(09:39):
fulfilling when we think about it, logically, we spend like
sixty percent of our days in an office, almost eight
hours or more. And if you feel stressed, if you
feel unfulfilled, that is ultimately going to bleed into your
overall approach to life and how we're feeling. Stress in
(09:59):
particular has a long term impact on our body. It's
associated with high cordisile levels, which is the stress hormone,
and when that remains in our system for too long,
or when it's repeatedly activated, this impacts on our immune system.
It makes us more susceptible to certain illnesses and infections.
(10:19):
It also impacts how fast our body ages, and it's
linked to a number of mental health conditions. I think
stress and the stress associated with nine to five office
culture is one component of this equation, but the other
is boredom. Perhaps boredom I think is the opposite of stress.
It's when your work is both unfulfilling and also totally
(10:43):
tedious and boring. I'm sure we have all had this
experience where we have had to do something that our
brain could probably do whilst we were asleep. And our
brain deserves stimulation, it deserves a rich environment in twenty fourteen,
these psychologists at the University of Virginia, they actually examined this,
(11:06):
but they did it by accident, so it was a
really simple experiment, and they placed subjects in a room
by themselves with no distractions for ten minutes, and what
they wanted to see was our imagination. They wanted to
see what our brains would create and give the subjects
possibilities to really engage in some of that mental creativity
(11:27):
and see what they came up with. But what they
actually found was that without stimulation, many of the participants
became incredibly uncomfortable, to the point that when they ran
this study again, they gave participants the option to self
administer electric shocks and most of them actually did it
(11:48):
just to pass the time. Boredom causes us so much
discomfort in our brains in our bodies that it can
actually increase our drive to take part in behavi we
know are harmful. In the case of this research, that
was actually self inflicting physical pain. But in the real
(12:10):
world we are also more likely to see higher rates
of risky behaviors like substance abuse, excessive drinking, gambling, and
even reckless driving amongst people who are suffering from excessive
boredom like that associated with a tedious, boring job. It
(12:30):
also increases our irritability, the number of negative emotions we experience,
and our relationships. I think that is such a compelling
argument for why we should be seeking out an alternative,
especially if you are working in a job that is
entirely unfulfilling, where you feel completely drained. You feel like
(12:50):
you are not contributing to your society and also not
even contributing to making your life better. We get one life,
why not spend it making amazing memories, spending quality time
doing the things we love, having flexibility and freedom beyond
(13:12):
the office. That brings me to my next reason. I
deeply believe that the nine to five job it causes
us to become detached or separated for what truly matters.
Work doesn't matter, work, really, it doesn't matter. It's a
paycheck in my mind. Maybe that's because I've never really
(13:34):
worked in an environment where I've been particularly motivated. You know,
my podcast doesn't actually feel like work. It's something that
I'm deeply passionate about, and maybe that's how you feel
about your job. But I think what can often happen
is we become so invested and tied up in the
goals of our company or the goals that we have
(13:55):
around work, that it causes us to forget about what
truly matters. We all have stories of people we know
who work long hours, not just because they're required to,
but because their work has become their personality, and it's
not their fault. When you are required to spend the
majority of your hours doing something, our brain is going
(14:17):
to have a cognitive dissonance, and it's going to begin
to convince us that we're actually happy in that environment
and integrate it into part of our identity. Nine to
five jobs they also just simply take us away from
nature and new experiences and time to do things that
we love. It's not just the hours, right, It's not
(14:37):
just that nine to five are our primary waking hours.
It's the fact that most of us only get four
weeks of holiday time, four weeks to actually go out
and explore our environment, to make new memories with the
people we love. That was really compelling for me when
I was making my decision. But before I get to
(14:57):
my experience, I do just want to bring up this
other theory which I really believe in, and that is
that the nine to five job and office jobs in particular,
actually separate us from our instinctial urges, and from an
evolutionary standpoint, they are highly unnatural. So our ancestors, our
(15:18):
very early ancestors, they spent their days problem solving and
roaming around, exploring new environments, foraging and hunting and being
stimulated by multiple things in their environment. They had to
use different parts of their brains, different parts of their
bodies to survive and to essentially will live and support
(15:41):
their kin and their children and their offspring. And what
that led to was a very well adapted, complex brain,
the same brain that we still have today. And our
brain wants the same things. It wants to be entertained.
It wants to problem solve, It wants to be able
to explore and use its senses and use its functions
(16:04):
to fulfill our goals and our desires and our objectives.
When we put our brain into an environment that is
not conducive to that, like a very stale office, or
into ours that don't actually fit around our circadian rhythm
and our natural urges, we cut ourselves off from those instincts,
(16:25):
from our inherent nature. Obviously, it's nice to have security.
Our priorities have obviously changed. We no longer need to
go and forage or gather or hunt our food. It's
a great, great step forward. I don't think I would
have survived in that environment. But I do also believe
(16:47):
that it's been taken too far to a point where
sometimes our jobs don't even give us the financial freedom
to afford the things that we need, and yet they
take up so much of our time. This is where
my disillusionment stemmed from, and I want to talk about
my experience just for a little bit here. I think
I have always known that the nine to five job
(17:12):
wasn't going to be for me. I always had these
dreams about starting my own business, or being an entertainer,
or doing something that gave me more flexibility and room
to explore. But I graduated from university and the next
natural step for me was to go and get a job.
(17:32):
And at the time the job that I got, I
thought that was my dream job. I genuinely was elated.
I was so excited when I knew that I was
going to be starting with this company, and they were
a great company, they were amazing. I do genuinely love
my coworkers and some of the things I was able
to work on, but a massive part of me also
(17:54):
felt really, really unfulfilled. I said it before, but I
was working in consulting and the hours they are not
nine to five, they are for me sometimes it was
like seven am to nine pm. That did not give
me time to enjoy my life, like none at all,
and I was quite frankly miserable. I was really suffering.
(18:14):
I wasn't sleeping, I never had time to exercise. I
was trying to squeeze in time to socialize with my friends.
Normally that went, you know, going out for drinks after work,
which is always fun, but I kind of wanted a
little bit more. I wanted to be able to go
to the beach with them, or go to an art gallery,
or do something a little bit more fulfilling and productive.
(18:37):
And I was finding that I did not have that opportunity.
Alongside that I was doing my podcast alongside working, and
I know that that was a self inflicted burden, but
it just ate into all of my time that I
would usually be devoting to my hobbies, and it was
a huge adjustment, one that I think I never really
(18:59):
did adjust to I said it before, but I was
genuinely miserable. I was so sad, I was depressed. I
really felt incredibly unfulfilled. I felt so unfulfilled, and I
was blessed enough to have this thing, this podcast, that
I knew I wanted to do full time because this
(19:21):
was what made me feel alive, this was what made
me feel motivated. I can spend twelve hours a day
working on this show because I feel so happy doing
that and content and I feel like I'm making a difference.
But spending twelve fourteen hours working for someone else in
an office doing tedious tasks was just it, wasn't it.
(19:43):
And the interesting thing was, whilst I was going through
this experience, I was having so many conversations with my
friends who felt the exact same way, and some of
them actually took the leap and decided to go out
on their own or do something different. I think it
was this one conversation I had with my friend where
(20:03):
I realized how quickly the last three years of my
life had gone by. And I was looking through my
camera role and yes there was a highlight reel, but
most of the time it was empty. It was empty
of experiences. It was empty of fulfillment. And so many
people in my life were saying the same thing. So
many people in their twenties were becoming so disillusioned with
(20:26):
this idea that we had been sold. It almost felt
like a bit of a trojan horse, like we had
been offered this amazing idea of security and of a
purpose and of financial freedom, and none of those things
were really coming true for us. I have friends who
were working ridiculous hours for such little pay. Like we
(20:47):
sat down and it was when you account for the
hours they work over time, compared to their base salary,
they were making less than minimum wage. That is a
hard pill to swallow. That is a hard dream to
keep persons doing if you never feel like you are
getting any reward. So I decided to quit. I decided
(21:07):
to leave it behind. And it was really terrifying. I
think that, like many of us, my family and the
culture and the society around me had never really shown
me success stories of what it would look like if
I didn't pursue this way of life, what it would
look like to exist outside the realm of the nine
(21:29):
to five. So it was terrifying. It was genuinely, really terrifying,
and I wished that I had someone who had done
it before me, who could have sat me down and
said it's all going to be okay. And now I'm
that person. I'm that person for anyone out there who
was thinking should I do this? The answer is yes.
(21:50):
The answer is yes. My whole life and my attitude
towards life has completely changed with this transition, and it
ranges from really small things like I found that I'm
eating better because I'm not constantly overworked and just looking
for something that is convenient. I have time to actually
invest in putting good food into my body. I have
(22:11):
time to exercise. The other day, I went for a
walk in the sun, and I realized that like the
last two three years, except for on the weekends, there
were so many days where I never went outdoors. And
that just felt so unnatural for me, because that is
how we are meant to exist. We are meant to
be outside, we are meant to be exploring nature, and
(22:34):
just having that opportunity to do that was such a
small joy and it was so beautiful. I will say
I'm not working less hours. I think I'm working more,
but that's just because I'm more motivated than ever to
just explore and put out amazing content and write great episodes.
I just can't stop myself. I'm a little bit of
(22:55):
a perfectionist and a workaholic in that way. But I
realized the hours were kind of never the problem. It
was my sense of fulfillment and it was my sense
of flexibility. And that's the most beautiful thing that I
think this lifestyle offers is that you can decide when
you wake up. You can decide how much effort you
(23:15):
really put in, which is I guess correlated with your
output in a way that you can't do when you're
working in an office and people require things from you.
But you can also set your own schedule the other day.
I know I'm giving so many examples here, but when
I moved to Sydney, the thing that was so attractive
to me was being able to go to the beach,
and I would only be able to go on the weekends,
(23:36):
and now I can go in the middle of the day.
That freedom is so beautiful. That freedom is like insanely
special to me. To be able to actually prioritize the
things in my life that I want to do. I
know it's another common experience whereby one of my friends
said this to me the other day. We make this
money at our nine to five jobs. It's a secure wage.
(23:59):
It's a secure in which I think we cannot understate.
But then we actually don't have time to spend it
because nothing's really open after five pm. The sun is set.
You can't You know, you can online shop, you can
do those things, but those are not as gratifying as
being able to go out and do things with your
friends and actually spend the money in a way that
(24:21):
you want to, rather than just on one holiday or
one trip a year. So I think the main thing,
and the main message I want to communicate is that
the risk has been worth it for me. I have
been able to transform my life in a way that
I always dreamed of, in a way that is so
much better for my lifestyle and so productive. I will say,
(24:44):
maybe none of this is aligning with your experience. Some
people love their jobs, they love their coworkers. They do
find ways to balance their work and their life in
order to prioritize the things they do enjoy doing. And
if that is you, I think that that is incredible.
But I think as well, there will be at least
(25:05):
one time or one point in our lives where that
way of living is called into question and we're going
to look for a different way forward. There's another thing
I want to say, and that is I don't want
to disregard that this is a privilege. Not everyone has
this opportunity. They need the security of full time work
(25:25):
to support children, to pay mortgages, to pay their bills,
to put food on the table. And I understand that
I also have to support myself and I have gotten
really lucky. I think that kind of goes without saying.
But what I really am trying to say is that
is the nine to five work week really the best
(25:46):
that society can come up with? And if you have
the opportunity to work more flexible hours to have that freedom,
would you take it? And I think our answer is yes,
because inherently we know that what we are put in
our brains and our minds and our bodies through is
not natural or efficient. Society isn't what it used to be,
(26:08):
and we have adapted, so our work should as well.
Even stable jobs no longer provide the security that we
are often sold or that we crave. Think about how
many news articles there are a week about people being
laid off from companies that they've worked for for years,
and even massive players like Google, they still can't provide
(26:32):
the security of full time, forever employment that's been sold
to us as part of this steal, this steal whereby
we exchange the best hours and the best years of
our life for security, and that's not even promised. The world,
I think, has also become more globalized and innovative and entrepreneurial.
The rise of the internet and social media and technology
(26:55):
means that our income is no longer tied to a
concrete office space that we have to habitually return to.
So what I want to step into next is when
we can identify that it's time to leave this routine
and break away. What the risks entails, and also what
some of my personal fears were and still are. But
(27:19):
how to be prepared to enter into that world and
that lifestyle of more freedom. When do we know that
it's time to go. That's a big question and I
don't know if I can answer it, But there are
a few telltale signs that I think it's time for
you to take the risk. The first is when your
(27:41):
job is negatively impacting your mental health. There are some
things that we're willing to tolerate, right Like there is
discreete times in our lives where we know we are
going to go through more acute levels of stress and anxiety,
or even just randomly. We all go through our own
mental health peaks and troughs. That's a part of life.
(28:03):
But when you can identify that it is your work
that is correlated to those mental health struggles, there is
nothing worth jeopardizing that for absolutely nothing. I've been there,
I've done that, and I've come out the other side.
And when I look back, all I can say is
that hindsight gives you a completely different perspective. And I
(28:24):
wish that when I was going through those periods, when
I could identify that it was my job that was
causing all of that distress, I'd made the call sooner
to walk away. Your mental health is the most important thing.
There is always another alternative, There is always another job,
There is always another opportunity that you can take. I
(28:47):
think the second reason is when you feel a calling
for something else. I know that sounds really wishy washy.
It's not incredibly tangible. We can't always tell when a
feeling is right, but you need to trust your intuition.
And intuition is basically our brain paying subconscious attention to
(29:07):
things that we don't always consciously recognize. It's the age
old saying to trust your gut, and I truly do
believe that when we have a compelling instinct to take
a risk or to do something against the grain, something different,
it is our responsibility to explore that or we risk
(29:28):
regretting it. If you listened to my episode on why
we should take risks in our twenties, you'll have heard
the study already, but it is so powerful for me.
These researchers they found that people are more likely to
regret the actions that they didn't take, or the decisions
that they walked away from or didn't make, compared to
(29:49):
those that they did. That was one of the final
straws for me, actually reading that study and realizing that
although there was a lot at stake things go wrong,
the chances that I would regret my decision were going
to be a lot higher if I passed up this
opportunity rather than if I ran towards it. It's also
(30:11):
worth acknowledging that you are an incredibly adaptive person. Generations
of your ancestors have survived and survived much worse things
to get you to this point. There is always a solution,
There is always a way forward. Even if things go wrong,
you will find a way through, and you don't want
(30:31):
to risk that idea of what if things had gone well,
what if this had worked out. Another reason it may
be time to leave your job to think about a
life beyond the nine to five is if you feel
undervalued and overlooked, that is terrible for our self esteem
and it bleeds into our well being and our health
(30:53):
and how we treat other people. If you're working in
a job where you are doing so much more, you
are putting in the hours, and you are not getting
the credit you deserve, there is no point staying there.
There is another company that will treat you with respect.
But you can also be your own boss and show
yourself the respect that you deserve because it's coming from you.
(31:16):
This next reason, I know it's not a new one
everywhere or live in my TikTok or live in my Instagram.
I see this idea of the side hustle. So essentially,
it is an activity or a kind of a job
that you work beyond your nine to five that provides
you with a second income. I've been skeptical about this.
(31:37):
I was like, some of these do not seem real.
I'm not even gonna look into this. But then I
was like, I guess my podcast was somewhat of a
side hustle, even though I really wasn't making any money
until recently. Side hustles can actually be anything. They can
be anything, and they don't even need to make you money.
But if there is a way to make money and
(31:59):
to support you yourself with that, even if it's going
to make or take more effort and time, you should
do it because you could produce a higher payoff. And
my final reason is no reason at all. If you
are just called to live differently, you should do it.
This is your life, No one owns it. You do
(32:22):
not owe anything to anyone. You are solely responsible for
what you want to do and what you want to
achieve and the kind of life that you want to live.
That is your responsibility. So if you feel called to
live differently, you don't need a reason. You may love
your workplace, you may be getting paid a lot, but
it just doesn't align with your priorities or your vision
(32:45):
for your life, it may be time to consider whether
there is another alternative. So the next stage is you've
made the decision, you're leaving the cozy nine to five
or office job life behind. What's next is what's the
next steps here. We're not going to be naive or
(33:06):
blase here. Leaving behind the security of a frequent and
consistent paycheck and full time hours is going to be scary,
and there are some factors to consider. I cannot tell
you how many hours and nights I've spent considering every
way that this could go wrong. How I could be
(33:27):
broke by thirty. I could lose my voice and no
longer work. That's like a crazy thing to me. I
could get sued, I could lose my inspiration, I could
lose my passion for this. That's probably the scariest one.
Or you know, one day people just aren't interested anymore.
But the thing that I think of when I'm thinking
(33:49):
these things and when I'm finding myself in a spiral
or really ruminating, is that even when I this wasn't
my job, even when I was making no money, I
was still doing this because I loved it. And if
I'm doing something I love, maybe it's naive, but I
do think that nothing can go wrong. There will always
be a way. When there's a will, there's a way.
(34:10):
But I also chose to be realistic. There is you know, daydreaming,
and there is fantasy thinking, and sometimes that naivety can
get us in trouble. So I put some things in
place before I took the leap. This is just my perspective,
this is what I chose to do. You can take
my advice or leave it, as is always the case.
But if you are serious about leaving the nine to
(34:33):
five and corporate lifestyle behind, these are some tangible and
valuable steps that I think you can take to ensure
yourself more long term security. The first one is to
do with money. You need to have at least three
to six months of money saved up to cover your
expenses or some fall back or some form of financial
(34:54):
security that you can fall back on. It's a sad
reality that we need money to live, but it is reality.
You need to be able to take care of your health,
of your dependence. Maybe you have a mortgage or just
your bills. So you don't want to be in a
situation in which you're really desperate or in which you
are forced to go back on your desires or go
(35:17):
back on your goal or your intentions. So an easy
way to do that is to make sure that you
have enough money to saved up if things go wrong,
and it will also just provide you with a greater
sense of security so that you feel you can take
the risk. This may take time. It took me, I
think just under like eight months to get to this point,
(35:38):
so I really wouldn't advise listening to this episode and
going and giving your four weeks tomorrow. I think it
is important to be realistic, but this really helped me
to know that even if everything went wrong, I still
would have a bit of a buffer to get back
on my feet and to pay my rent and do
all the things that I needed to do. I also
(35:58):
think this grows hand in and with having a good
look at what you are spending your money on. This
is advice for any transition, but especially one that comes
with financial risk. I sat down, I went through all
my bank statements, and oh my goodness, I spent money
on so many ridiculous things. I found like a forty
(36:19):
dollars order for slime, and I distinctly remember buying this
slime like a few like a few months back. But
I was like, that is I do not need that slime.
There are things that I can cut out of my
daily expenses, of my luxury purchases. I don't think slime
is a luxury, but whatever that means for you, that
is going to make me feel more secure and more
(36:39):
able to provide myself with financial security. So have a
good look at what you can maybe cut out, what
maybe you will have to give up, and if you're
willing to give those things up or if you I
guess what state you need to be and to not
have to do those things and have a game plan.
There is nothing worse than stepping into a new and
novel situation and having no idea of your way forward.
(37:04):
There is a healthy level of risk, and then there
is an unhealthy level of risk, and I think the
distinction there is having somewhat of an idea of where
you're going to next. So I made sure that I
had written up a game plan. I had an idea
of what I was going to do on even in
my day to day, what my priorities and my focus was,
(37:27):
and what my long term goals were, and making sure
that I was oriented towards that and making sure that
my decision was actually aligned with this vision I had
for my life and my game plan. The other thing
to do, especially if you're leaving a big company or
a corporate job, is to end on good terms. Worst
(37:48):
case scenario, you can go back to that job, and
you can go back to that security if you leave
on bad terms. If you leave on bad terms, I
think you're just a eleminate, a bit of a security blanket.
You eliminate something that could catch you if you fall.
So most companies would love to have you back. They
don't want to invest, however much money it costs to
(38:11):
train someone new. So make sure that you have that
backup plan and leave on good terms. In the back
of your mind. It will also make you feel a
lot more secure and stable in your decision. Understand how
you're going to create routine and a support network or
community around this new path. I'm not going to sugarcoat this.
(38:34):
It can be really lonely, especially in this industry and
with my job. It's like this is a solo enterprise,
This is a solo pursuit. There is not much of
a community around podcasting, at least in Australia. I have
had the benefit and the pleasure of being able to
meet some other people who are doing this as their work,
(38:56):
but that was intentional. I knew that I was someone
who needed community around me. I am an extrovert. I
need people who are who I can complain about my
work problems to who are going to be there for me.
So that was one of the biggest challenges moving away
from the solid structure of a nine to five job,
(39:17):
was knowing that I would have to say goodbye to
that in build community and wanting to find an alternative.
I think also, this is another financial one. Maybe I
should have said this earlier. First, we have a realistic
expectation of if this is a side hustle or a
business that you're starting, what that's going to cost. There
(39:38):
are some upfront costs of some long term costs that
I didn't expect. But also, don't stop putting money towards
your superannuation or your retirement. This was advice that my
mom gave me. Shout out to my mom. She's an economist,
she provides great financial advice. But in Australia we have
this thing called superannuation and your employer immediately has to
(40:01):
put money into that fund for you. I didn't think
about this, but when I stopped working a nine to
five job, I'm my employer. Now I have to put
money towards that. So that's a big thing to consider. Obviously,
there are financial considerations. There are a lot of other considerations.
If you have children, consider the impact on them. If
(40:22):
you have a mortgage, consider whether you can pay your mortgage,
or whether this might be too much of a risk.
But risks are always going to be there. They are
inherent in every part of our life, every single facet
and element. So it's about what level of risk you're
willing to tolerate for a greater reward. And this is
(40:44):
just one woman's opinion, but I do think that this
is one of the greatest choices you can make us
twenty year olds, us in this generation. I think we
know that nine to five work is not the fantasy,
it's not the dream that was sold to us. So
we're looking for something else, and it's possible. We want
(41:07):
to enjoy our lives. You only have one of them,
and being able to work flexibly, work remotely, be your
own boss is such a rewarding alternative and I said
it before, but I just really want to say it again,
regardless of if you're listening to this and being like, actually,
you know, I don't think I'm willing to take this risk.
(41:28):
I'm going to stay in my job. It doesn't matter.
Life is not work. Your life should not have to
exist in the corners around your work hours. Life is
the thing that happens to you every day. It's the
thing that is made up of beautiful joys and beautiful
memories and incredible connections. That is the most valuable thing
(41:51):
to me. And at the end of the day, regardless
of the financial risks, regardless of my fears, that was
something that I was really looking forward to, and that
was something that was really compelling and motivating for me
that I would be able to enjoy my life. So
I hope that leaves you with a little bit of
(42:11):
wisdom and something to contemplate. I will say it one
more time. I think it's worth saying. It's worth acknowledging.
I am coming from a place of extreme privilege, and
I just want to say I am so grateful. I'm
so grateful. Every day I wake up and I just
cannot believe that this is my reality from a small
idea I had back when I was at UNI to
(42:34):
having so many of you who listen every week. You
have really changed my life. You have like this would
not be possible without the people who show their support
and who listen to my show and who encourage me
so Thank you so much. It means the world. I
really don't think I could really ever thank you enough.
(42:54):
And I hope that I can continue to just put
out even better content, make even more episodes, connect with
more of you, and just see what's out there, what
science and psychology is doing, how it applies to our twenties,
and keep building up this guidebook for people all over
the world. So I think that's all we have time
for today. Sorry I went on a bit of an
(43:15):
emotional rant, but I think it needed to be said.
I am very grateful. If you did enjoy this episode,
feel free to share it along to a friend who
might need to hear it, And if you do feel
cool to do so, please feel free to leave a
five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you are
listening right now. It helps this show to grow and
(43:38):
I really appreciate it. I read all of your reviews
every single one of them, and they are just so
personal and beautiful to me, so thank you for that support.
If you have an episode suggestion, if you have questions,
if you just want to give some feedback, please feel
free to follow me at that Psychology Podcast on Instagram.
I post a lot of behind this scenes content over there,
(44:01):
and I'm always looking for new ideas for what you
want me to cover. So thank you so much for
listening to this episode. And here's your daily reminder to
quit your job. And I'll be back next week with
another episode.
Host
Jemma Sbeghen
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Two Guys, Five Rings: Matt, Bowen & The Olympics
Two Guys (Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers). Five Rings (you know, from the Olympics logo). One essential podcast for the 2026 Milan-Cortina Winter Olympics. Bowen Yang (SNL, Wicked) and Matt Rogers (Palm Royale, No Good Deed) of Las Culturistas are back for a second season of Two Guys, Five Rings, a collaboration with NBC Sports and iHeartRadio. In this 15-episode event, Bowen and Matt discuss the top storylines, obsess over Italian culture, and find out what really goes on in the Olympic Village.