The Science of Inspiring Leadership w/ Dr. Adam Galinsky

This week, Scott welcomes Dr. Adam Galinsky, Professor at Columbia Business School and author of Inspire: The Universal Path for Leading Yourself and Others.

Together, they explore what makes a truly inspiring leader—and how anyone, regardless of title or position, can develop the qualities to lead with vision, courage, and impact. Dr. Galinsky shares powerful insights on the "leader amplification effect," the importance of expanding the "status pie," and how leaders can empower others while staying grounded in authenticity.

This timely and energizing conversation is packed with research-backed wisdom and practical strategies for cultivating influence and purpose in your personal and professional life.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Linda Rottenberg, CEO of company called Endeavor. You know, she's
this incredible leader, but she says she didn't really become
an inspiring leader until she started talking about her human side.
In this case, it was her husband's battle with cancer.
But I always tell people, if she exposed her vulnerability
at the beginning, no one would have taken her serious

(00:20):
as a leader. Hillary Clinton cries, and it transforms her
into a human you know. Elizabeth Dohle cries at the
beginning of her campaign, and she's done right, you know.
And so you want to establish your competence first. And
once you establish our competence allows you to be generous.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Hello and welcome to the Psychology Podcast. In each episode,
we talk with inspiring scientists, thinkers, and other self actualizing
individuals who will give you a greater understanding of yourself, others,
and the world we live in. We even hope to
give you a glimpse into human possibility. On today's episode,
we feature Columbia Business School professor Adam Glinsky, author of

(01:00):
the book Inspire, The Universal Path for Leading Yourself and Others.
In this episode, we discussed the universal characteristics of truly
inspiring leaders and how we can all become more visionary leaders.
We also discuss the importance of expanding the status PI
and what doctor Glinski calls the leader amplification effect. This
is an important discussion and very relevant to the world today.

(01:23):
So without further ado, I bring you doctor Adam Golinski. Professor,
doctor Adam Golinski. So excited to have you on the
Psychology Podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
Thank you so much, Professor doctor Scott Kaufman. It's a
pleasure to be here.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah. Man, you know I've done this podcast eleven years.
It's like about time we had you on the show.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
I've been a.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
Long time admirer of your work, as you know, did O.
Thank you, Adam, Thank you. Your new book is called
is it? How many books have you had?

Speaker 1 (01:51):
It's my second book, so my first solo author book.
I had to call author a book called Fend and
Foe before.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Oh yeah I remember that. Yeah, I actually not know
actually about I really like that book. But your second
book is called Inspire, The Universal Path for Leading yourself
and others. Why did you write this one? Why are
you like, Okay, I need to do this. I need
to go through the torture or writing a book.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah, it's a great question, you know. I you know,
I describe in the acknowledgments of the book, this book
really is my heart and soul, Like I love this
this this book, it's really everything that I There's a
lot of personal stories, but there's also just like the
core of my research and my identity. And you know,
over the last since two thousand and two, so you know,

(02:33):
over twenty years, I've been teaching leadership to NBA students,
you know, all over the world, and you know, my
class has just developed over time. And at some point
I realized that, like my class told kind of a
coherent story that I think would be just really helpful
for people. And I think, you know, one of the
core ideas of the book, right, is that we when

(02:55):
we inspire others, we make the world a better place
to be. And so I kind of call it spreading
the seeds of inspiration. And so I hope that this
book people read it and they're going to learn ways
that they can be a more inspiring person to others
in the world and make their lives better, which means
going to leave those people to make other people's lives better,

(03:15):
et cetera, et cetera. And so hopefully it spooks my
heart and soul, but hopefully it becomes the world's heart
and soul too.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
That's well, is beautiful. You talk about three characteristics of
truly inspiring leaders, visionaries, exemplars and mentors. Can you just
run through all three for us?

Speaker 1 (03:33):
Yeah, you know, and it might be really helpful if
I just also do it with like an example that
the way that I open the book, because I think
it's really powerful, and I'll just mentioned really briefly, so
you know, take a step back. You know, how did
I discover these three, these three core universal aspects of
inspiring others? Is you know, I've been asking tens of
thousands of people across the world just tell me about

(03:54):
a leader that inspire them, and events I started also
asking them talking about leader that infuriated them, and I
discovered these sort of three critical insights. The first is
the inspiring leader and the inferity leader are kind of
like on a continuum and enduring continualm you know, optimists
versus pestimists, courageous versus cowardly selfish, you know, generous versus selfish.

(04:15):
And the second thing is that there's not a single
characteristic that's mentioned in one country, that's not mentioned in
every country, so they're truly universal. And then third is
that they really comprise these three factors. And the reason
why they comprise these three factors is because they each
satisfy a fundamental human need. So visionary is sort of

(04:36):
how we see and communicate the world. Provides people meaning
and understanding. Exemplar, how we are in the world, provides
people with a sense of protection and energy, and how
we interact with other people in the world mentor that
provides people with the sense of belonging and status. And
so let me give you this example to open the book.

(04:57):
Southwest Airlines thirteen to eighty. It's flying from the to
Dallas when the left engine explodes and tears a hole
in the side of the plane. Now one of the
passengers got sucked into that hole and was fatally injured.
And now there's a massive crisis. Right there's depressurization, Hydraulic
lines are cut, fuel lines are cut. The plane needs

(05:19):
the descend. So the pilot, Tammy Joe Schultz, she starts
to descend it. And it's at this point where she
starts down the inspiring path. She recognizes immediately that for
the people in the back of the plane when there's
a hole in your plane and it's going down, and
went down twenty thousand feet in five minutes. As she said,
the plane wanted to descend, so she let it descend

(05:44):
twenty thousand feet in five minutes. But she recognized for
someone in the back of the plane, they think they're dying,
they think they're falling, they think they're crashing. So she
got on the intercom and she said ten words, and
those ten words were, we are not going down. We're
going to Philly. And everyone said like that. Just that
prevented heart attacks, right, That prevented anxiety, that prevented despair,

(06:06):
that prevented hopelessness. It created a sense of possibility. And
what she was doing there, and this is why she
was so visionary, is she was giving them an optimistic
why for their experience. She was giving them a sense
of understanding why they were descending. It wasn't a fall,
it was controlled, right, And so that really captures it.

(06:27):
The second thing, if you hear the air traffic control
her conversation with them, it sounds like she's ordering soup
out of deli, Like she's so calm, you know, she's like,
we have a hole in the plane, we're descending, we're
looking to go to Philly. You know, it's very matter
of fact. And actually, when the EMTs evaluated her in
the cockpit, one of them asked her a surprising question.
They said, how did you get through security? She said,

(06:51):
what are you talking about? She's like, how did your
nerves of steel not set off all the alarms, you
know when you went the metal detectors, because she was
so physiologically calm. And then the third thing, she was
a mentor. Before she left the plane, she went row
by row and looked every passenger and the eye and
talked to them. She told little girl how special she

(07:11):
was and how like she never had the oxygen mask
fall down, and that what a unique experience it was
for her. So she was visionary, giving people that optimistic.
Why she was an exemplar. She was calm and she
allowed everyone else to be calm. And then she was
a mentor. She made sure that everyone was taken care of.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
I mean it that what a rarity though. I mean,
if you did all, you know, I'm going all Abraham
Masil on you right now, because he's like, self actuation
is important, but only like zero point one percent of
the populace, so how many percentage of the population? And
actually have all of leaders of leaders have all three
of those characteristics? Have you ever done a.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
That's a great question. So you know, I've created like
a self assessment scale about that. And I'll say two
things about it. I think are really really important and
really really fundamental to the book, and i think why
why it matters so much. The first is this, my
book answers the question whether leaders are born or made.
And that's a kind of in you know, a subtle
ingredient of your question, which is like who has this

(08:13):
and who doesn't? And what I'll say is, yes, of course,
some people are going to be born with greater physiological calmness, right,
some people are going to be naturally able to see
the big picture, you know a little bit. But because
what I've done in my research is I've identified a
universal set of characteristics. These are essentially behaviors, and that

(08:34):
means that every single person can identify those behaviors, they
can practice those behaviors, they can nurture them, they can
develop them. But we are never fully inspiring all the time,
every single one of us, Like what I like to say,
is life slants us towards the infuriity and end of
the continuum. And so we fall down because we're hungry,

(08:56):
because we're tired, because we're under pressure, because we're in
a new situation, because as were mad at our partner,
you know, whatever reason, we fall down. And so in
some ways, you know, it's a constant practice of being inspiring.
And so one of the things I tell people is,
you know, and I've shown this in my research, is
shame is a is a destructive emotion. When we feel shame,

(09:18):
we want to hide or become a defensive monster. So
I say, look when you when you're infuriating.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
That's that's funny.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
When you're infuriating, hold yourself accountable, but don't beat yourself up, right,
move on, How are you going to be more inspiring
next time? And I think that's right. So it's a
constant thing. Now we can develop habits that allow us
to be more inspiring more of the time. And you know,
it's funny. I you know, I love your your your

(09:47):
book Rise Above. I think it's it's it's so fantastic.
And you know, I had this epiphany I was looking
at through it again last night preparing for a conversation,
and I had this epiphany, which is that you and
I are actually talking almost about the same thing, but
just from a different lens. Like you're talking about what
people can do to in some ways self regulate themselves,
to to inspire themselves, to empower themselves, like as you

(10:09):
talk about yes, and I'm talking about how we can
inspire others empower others. Now there's a link between ours, right,
which is in your last chapter you point out when
we empower ourselves, it gives us the ability to empower others.
And so that's your book is kind of like a
stepping stone towards inspiring other people, you know, you know,
maybe the critical first step in the process.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah. Great, great point and great observation. And I agree
with that. You know, you mentioned how these things can
have been flow and even the most inspiring people have
their moments. Right, So let's take you for a second.
Tell me about a time you were really sleep deprived
and you were a little bit edgy there with your

(10:53):
seven year old son, making him feel rejected. Can you
talk a little bit about that.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
Yeah, it's a great it's a great example. So one
of the things I talk about in the book is
I've coined a phrase called the leader amplification effect. And
the leader amplification effect is essentially that when we're a leader,
people are paying really close attention to our behavior and
everything we do positive negative, but also verbal and nonverbal
get amplified and because of they have a bigger impact

(11:19):
and intensify people's reactions. Right, So amplified impact, intensified reactions.
And you know a corollarya of this is the parent
amplification effect, right, our parent what we do is a
I can think of some of the thing for any
things my parents did to me when I was a kid,
But one thing, maybe the greatest joy of my life,
I'll put it out there, is one of the greatest

(11:40):
joys of my life is that, since my son's been
very very small he is now eight, he crawls in
the bed and will like just drape his body online
and fall back to sleep, and I just lie there
with him, snuggle as tightly as can be. Well, what
happened was one morning when I was writing this book,
I stayed up to like two o'clock in the morn

(12:00):
and he'd come into my bedroom much earlier than normal,
like six am or five thirty and I just couldn't
go back to sleep, so I got out of bed
and went to go sleep on the couch. Now he
interpreted my getting out of the couch is a total
rejection of him. Now I didn't realize that, but like
two days later I knowed she crawled into bed, but

(12:22):
he would go to the bottom of the bed like
where like kind of the dog sleeps. And I was like,
what's going on? I said, why don't you want to
snuggle with me? And he said, because you don't want
to snuggle with me. I was like, that's not true,
and he said, yes, it is, dad, and so I
was like, what is he talking about? And then it
was like later that afternoon I realized maybe he got
upset when I left at six five thirty in the morning.

(12:43):
So that later that night I said to him, you know, hey, Asher,
did I hurt your feelings the other day when I
got out of bed? And he said yes. And I
was like, is that why you think I don't want
to snuggle with you? And he said yes, And I said, well,
you know what happened was there's really tired and I
didn't mean to hurt your feelings. And I would love
if we could snaggle again tomorrow morning, and so we did,

(13:04):
you know, But yeah, you know, one of the key
things about inspiring is self awareness, and what that requires
is how does my behavior impact someone else. I had
this incredible experience when I was a young assistant professor
where I saw doctoral student nine in the morning and
I said, Hey, Gail'll come by my office later. I

(13:26):
need to talk to you, you know, I said, I think,
I said, come by my office at three pm. I
need to talk to you. So six hour later, she
shows up in my office and she's like scared. She
looks like a frightened dough you know. And I'm like,
I just want to go over some research materials. And
so I told her what I wanted and she is like,
she slammed her fist on table, said never do that
to me again. Like, oh my god. Do what She's like,

(13:49):
never tell me you need to talk with me without
telling me why? How much work I got done in
the last six hours? Zero? Is adam out at me?
Someone else amounted me, am I going to lose a resource?
You know? And so now at first I thought Gail's
neurotic and she has a little neurotic. But later the
next day, my chair of my department said asked me
to come by their office, and I freaked out, you know,

(14:11):
And so I realized it's really about self awareness. Like
I had to recognize I'm in a position a power.
Asking someone talk to me is inherently fear and deucy,
and what I need to do is tell them why so.
And it was crazy. If I'd said to Gail, Hey, Gail,
come by my office at three pm. Let's go over
your research materials, versus come by malfic three pm. I

(14:32):
need to talk to you, same number of words, you know.
It didn't want to change anything. Someone else told me
a story recently, like their boss sent them an email
on a Thursday, Hey, come by my office at two
pm on Tuesday, I need to talk to you. She
didn't sleep for five days. She goes by the boss's
offer at two pm. She's like, Oh, I just want
to go over to the agenda for Friday's meeting. She's like,

(14:54):
I didn't sleep for five days, you know. And so
part of the awareness of the impact that we're having
on other people that I think is one of the
biggest keys. Once we become aware of that we can
harness it for good.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yeah, those are really great examples. Is it possible to
have these characteristics and to show that awareness for members
of your in group, but be really divisive to your outgroup? Like,
I mean, you know, I'm sure you've struggled with Like,
is Trump a good leader? You know? In some ways
he's kind of kind of he's kind of a good

(15:28):
leader for his people, his people, but not for all people.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
Yeah, I mean, I think let me say three things
about Trump. The first thing is that on these three dimensions,
how we communicate about the world, how we present ourselves
in the world, and how we interact in the world.
At one level, Trump's inspiring in all three. So make
America Great Again is optimistic, it's simple, it's you know,
it's it's a mantra. You know, it's it's a guiding light.

(15:55):
He presents himself as a creative genius, as a wrong
and powerful protector of people. And there's one thing, one
of the core. So the three core elements of being
kind of like an exemplar of desired behavior is being courageous.
It's being strong and powerful, and it's also being authentically

(16:16):
passionate and and and creative, you know, and he's authentically passionate.
Even his biggest attractors would say he's authentically passionate. Ye.
And then third, he's a mentor in this sense he
he's he's talking to people who feel forgotten and not
included in current America and says, you still matter, right,
the forgotten people in the Midwest, Wisconsin, Michigan, Right, you

(16:39):
know those areas that really that really you know, Pennsylvania
that really turned the Tidy election. Now there's he's very
inferreding on other dimensions, right, because he is his make
America Great Again is only for a subset of the population,
so it's non inclusive. He uh, you know, makes He's

(17:00):
very impulsive, right, so he makes very strong decisions based
on whatever he's currently experiencing. And from a day to
day level, he's one of the worst mentors in the
sense of like he throws everyone under the bus when
things go well, it's me, me, me, me me. When
things don't go I mean, he constantly says, I hardly
knew a person you know that he's known for ten years,

(17:22):
you know, like as if like, what are you talking about?
It's their fault? I don't know this person, you know,
and so so he's a complicated one, and you you
hit the nail in the head, which is that he's
in he's you know, like a messiah and inspiration to
the people within the in group because he's satisfying all
three of their needs. But he's such a pariah for
the outgroup because he's inferid in all three of those dimensions. Yeah,

(17:49):
I don't know, sayah and the pariah at the same.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
Time, I kind of want to reserve Yeah, no, absolutely,
I kind of the deforment wants to reserve the phrase
inspiring leader to those who don't have that split. Like
I mean, like Hitler was obviously an inspiring leader, but
but I don't really feel comfortable calling human an inspiring leader,
do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (18:09):
Like, yeah, yeah, And I think history changes, right, So
I think history is going to look differently at Trump
than some of the way that people currently do. Right.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
And you know, I should be clear Hiler was an
inspiring leader to the Germans, yeah, not too much, to
the Jews.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yes no, and and to probably only a subset and
the rest of the world, right, yeah, exactly right.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
So there's something I want to reserve that I feel
like there's like a moral component here that that is
not explicit in your three things, but I kind of
want to be.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
I think, let me just say, I think the single
biggest so you know, I've actually, you know, in my class,
I've shown a picture of like, you know, Martin Luther
King with his arm raised and Hitler with his arm raised,
and they're in the same posture, right, And the question is,
you know, why do we see these people so differently?
And I do think it really comes down to the

(19:04):
vision and who it's reserved for. And I think that's
exactly what you said. You know, it was reserved for
Germans and you know, not for Jews and Trump. It's
reserved for some you know, for the red states, not
the blue states. I mean, even the current budget is
designed to punish blue states, right, It's like it's it's
and I don't think we find in the long run
people who are you know, punishing, demonizing, separating, dividing people

(19:31):
as in the long run very inspiring people, even if
they might be current in the short run for a
subset of people.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yeah, we're we're on the same page in this one.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yeah, wonderful can spirits you and I Scott see it again?
Can rid spirits on the same page.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
Indeed, indeed, you coined a lot of phrases in this book.
But I don't think you just did it for this book.
You've had a long and long career where you've used
these things. So here's another phrase you throw out there,
inspiring infuriating continuum. Yeah, you know, I've never heard I've
never I've never I've never like seen that continuum before.
So can you talk to people about it?

Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yeah? I mean I think what happened was I started.
So I'll tell you this is how it all started, right,
you know. So I I was teaching the FBI after
nine to eleven. I was at Northwestern University of Callogic
School Management. So one day an FBI agent to start
talking about a leader that inspired him, and I was
so struck by how much his entire persona transformed. His

(20:31):
eyes lit up, he stood up in his chair, his
arms were animated, and like he just seemed to be
like like this, this spirit of inspiration seemed to like
you know, it was well spring of hope and possibility.
You seemed to flow through them. So I actually stopped,
and I still remember when this happened, and I just
asked everyone else in the class, could they tell me

(20:51):
about a leader that inspired them? And everyone could, And
so from that day on, I started asking everyone all
over the world tell me how to leave inspired them.
Now a year later, as teaching FBI again, and one
of the agents said, I don't want to talk about
a guy that inspired me. I want to tell you
about this guy that just pissed me off. He made
my blood boil. He infuriated me. And so then all

(21:13):
of a sudden, I and so I started asking them,
we'll tell me about leader then inspire infuriated you. And
I realized they're all on a continuum, right, So courageous
versus cowardly come versus anxious, optimistic versus pessimistic, right, you know,
generous versus selfish, you know, sharing credit versus stealing credit, micromanaging,
you know, versus involving other people. And so I started

(21:35):
realizing they were essentially mirror images of each other. And
so I realized that this continuum, I think really matters
because I think it's like embedded in the architecture of
the human brain. We're kind of designed to process people
along these dimensions because they matter so much for fulfilling
our fundamental human needs.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
Hil I want to take a moment to make a
few important announcements that I'm really excited about. As you
all know, I'm committed to helping people self actualize. In
the service of that, I just had a new book
comount called Rise Above. Overcome a victim mindset, empower yourself
and realize your full potential. In this book, I offer
a science backed toolkit to help you overcome your living

(22:18):
beliefs and take control of your life. Are you tired
of feeling helpless? This book will offer you hope, not
by identifying with the worst things that have happened to you,
but by empowering you to tap into the best that
is within you. Rise Above is available wherever you get
your books. Are you a personal coach looking to take
your coaching to the next level. I'm also excited to
tell you there are Foundations of Self Actualization Coaching. Three

(22:41):
day immersive experience for coaches is back by popular demand.
Foundations of Self Actualization Coaching is a course offered to
enhance your coaching practice by offering you evidence based tools
and insights to equip you to more effectively help your
clients unlock their unique creative potential. You can learn more
about the course and read by going to Center for

(23:01):
Human Potential dot com slash s a C. That's Center
for Human Potential dot com slash s a C. Okay,
now back to the show. Well did you talk about language?
I love that? Yeah, yeah, can you just tell me,
tell me what needs in particular you're thinking of, yeah, yeah,
any connection.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yeah yeah yeah. So so visionary satisfies this. We have
this fundamental need for like meaning and understanding. So like
Tammy Joe Schultz, like, what's going on? Why are we
dropping right? Spriting a sense of understanding? But like you know,
you know, I talk about this in the book, but
that you know, the data are very clear and I
can attest to this that like when you have kids,

(23:43):
your life gets worse. You sleep less well, you eat
less well, you rarely shower, you barely have sex. Right,
your your house is a mess, your mind's a mess.
You know, your body's a mess. Right. But people talk
about this psychological experience of meaning. My life has a
sense of purpose. And so regardless whether you have kids

(24:05):
or not, it's not dependent on kids. But we are
biological condition to crave meaning. Right. You know, Nietzsche has
this great quote. Right, a person who has a why
to live can bear almost anyhow right, they can suffer
the slings and eras of outrageous fortune if they know
why they're doing something. And I think that's really, really,
really important, which is that's what Trump does the supportives, right,

(24:26):
he gives them that meaning and understanding what's going on
in their world and how they can be that. Now,
we also want to feel safe and protected, right, and
that's why the exemplar is so important. But we also
want to feel energized. That's why passion matters so much,
you know. And then the third set of meanings, So

(24:46):
the first set is like meaning understanding for vision. Then
it's like what I call like protection and passion for exemplar.
And then the third is these really two fundamental human
needs because we're social beings, a sense of belonging and
a sense of status. Right that I'm included, but I'm
also valued and respected, right that I matter? And so

(25:08):
I think that's why these are the three universal dimensions.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
Wait wait, wait, wait wait, it's so interesting because I've
never like in Maslow's hierarchy and in mind, I guess, well,
you know, I guess we would put status under the
esteem needs.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
Yeah, exactly, yeah, yes, okay.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
I was trying to think, like where would I put.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah, it's definitely under esteem.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
Yeah okay.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
And you know, I think that, you know, you could
look at like, you know, Trump supporters, right, they they
they were losing status and they were losing security, and
so what he was able to do was really satisfy
their security needs. I'm going to protect you and take
care of you, and you are the most important people

(25:51):
in this world, you know, And so I think those
are are really what's going on with that. I want
to go back to the inspiring for in continuum because
I think that one of the things that makes the
continuum so important is it's not just philly philosophically or
theoretically or conceptually interesting. It's also practically important because if

(26:13):
we fall to the inferitying side, we actually have a
path to the other side, right, we can you know,
like if I'm stealing credit, I can start sharing credit,
Right if I'm micromanaging, I can start giving responsibility. So
it actually gives us, you know, the counterweighting toolkit to
get off of the the inferity mat and you know,

(26:33):
and to stand up onto the inspiring side.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, I mean, can anyone learn these skills? Things are
so important? And you yeah, okay, tell yeah, tell me
more about like how can so, how can a human
like become more visionary if just by share will yeah?

Speaker 1 (26:52):
So three things I'll say about it and he probably
knows I'd love to say three things about everything. But
the first is in the book I talk about how
for each one of these we could there's a kind
of reflection task that we can engage in and that
helps us so to become more visionary. One of the
most important things we need to do is really tap

(27:13):
into our values. And so there's so much research that
shown that when we tap into our values, we can
see the big picture, we become more optimistic. It's motivating.
I'll just give you. I just published a paper a
couple of years ago in the proceedings of the National
Academy of Sciences where we worked with a Swiss employment agency.
I had a post doc from Switzerland, so that was

(27:34):
our end and in Switzerland, when you become unemployed, which
is one of the five biggest stressers anyone can experience
in their life, and I was fired from my first
post college job. After I graduate at Harvard, I got
fired from my first job, so I know how painful
that experience is. And when people go in to get
their employment benefits, they have to register in person. And
for half of the people coming in, we gave them

(27:57):
a we gave them a values reflection task. We said,
think about your values, you know, put them in a hierarchy,
like we're you know, the most important one. Why do
they matter to you? But I think this is a
key part of our manipulation. How you demonstrated your values recently.
Two months later, the people would randomly signed to reflect

(28:19):
on their values were twice as likely to have a job.
And the effect was so strong we had to stop
or study and give everybody the values intervention. And you know,
not only did we make those people's lives better by
getting them jobs and the people's lives around them, we
also saved the Swiss government put a bunch of money too,
because they had to stop paying Someone gets a job,
you know, and you're pay unemployment benefits and so there's

(28:43):
there's real value. Now. That's how we get into a
visionary state of mind. Now, to get into an exemplar
state of mind. There's two things that we can do.
One of them I've published, you know, hundreds of studies
on and thousands of studies probably around the world on
this is that thinking about a time when you had power.
And so we you know, done this in people before negotiations,

(29:05):
before interviews, and we can show before speeches. So you know,
one study that I didn't do that was done actually
in Europe by some researchers is before giving a speech
in front of an audience, very scary. They had some
people reflect on time which they had power, some people
reflect on time when they lacked power. They measured their

(29:25):
physiological arousal, and then they gave their speeches. And what
they showed in this in this research is the people
who thought about time and their power were physiologically calmer
and gave better speeches. Right. I've shown that in interviews
that people who do this power prime before an interview
are more likely to get admission to a school, for example,

(29:46):
And so it's really a powerful way to do that.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
Yeah, wow, is this is this more replicable than the
power pose.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
It's much more replical than the power post. And you know,
you know, here's what I'll say about this. There's there's
there's something called the pea curve anouts yeah, I love
me too. I hired Amy at Kellogg. I was literally
on the search committee and I was chairing, and I
was chairing the search committee and Amy didn't apply for
the job. And the day before search committe meeting, I

(30:16):
thought of her and she was at Rucker's Psyche and
I brought her CV to the to the thing and
we hired her. And look, I think the power post
is really important. But research shows that the power pose
on outcomes like interviews or negotiations or stuff shows what's
called a flat line, so it doesn't look like there's
a real effect there, whereas the power prime shows like

(30:38):
what's called the curve line, which shows like there's a
real effect there. Now, I do think though, and this
is what I'll say to people is to get yourself.
And I think you would would really resonate with given
everything you talk about in your book, is that you
got to pick the thing that works for you. Right.
You know, for some people it's going to be a
power post. For some people it's going to be thinking
about you know, you know, the time of their power

(31:02):
Ted Lasso says barbecue sauce right before he throws his darts,
you know, Kevin Costnero and Tim Cupp says dollar bills
before he swings the golf club. Like, sometimes it's the
mantra that helps you. It's something that allows you to
do that. Now, the second thing that we can do
to become a more inspiring exemplar in our presence is
to really think about our passion and what we're really

(31:23):
passionate about, and to communicate about our passions. And I've
shown this in my research, Like when you ask someone
to talk about their passion, their eyes light up, they smile,
big beaming smile, they talk faster, they use their hands
more right, and they lean in. So think about that
when you're talking about your passion, right it's in your eyes,

(31:43):
it's in your mouth, it's in your throat, it's in
your hands, it's in your body. Right now, when I
ask people what happened to you, they're like, I my
eyes lit up, I smile, like I could feel that
passion percolating in me. And the second thing I think
it's so important about that reflecting on your passion and
sharing it is that you can't fake it. Yeah, like

(32:05):
if you're trying to fake passion, like okay, I gotta
make my eyes big and I gotta smile now, I
gotta You can't listen to how you can't spontaneously and
simultaneously but authentic.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
Wait, can we can we zoom zoom in on that
for a second, because I've been thinking lately that passion
probably doesn't belong in the emotions demean of psychology. It's
been miscategorized. I feel like it's it should be characterized
as a cognitive mindset because if you just treat it
as like an emotional situation, it's of course going to

(32:36):
wane very quickly, you know. And you know, especially like
with with love love, you know, your passion for someone
you don't always feel passion for for your partner. So anyway, No,
your point is very well taking. I've just been thinking
about the whole construct of passion lately.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
No, I think it's I think what you're saying is
incredibly important point. And I do think that, you know,
passion is also linked to our values and that sense
of meaning and understanding too, you know, And I think
that's what really is is really important, and I think
that's why we infuse our vision with our passion, it
makes it even more powerful. And so I think that's

(33:17):
exactly right. And then just how do we get into
like a mentor state of mind. Well, this is what
I've studied the longest thing in my career, you know,
since nineteen ninety five. This is you know, I started
working at My dissertation is perspective taking right and really
taking other people's perspectives. And like, just to give you
one example of a study that you know, I've shown
that perspectiking helps you get better outcomes and negotiations. But

(33:41):
in one study we did is we took every third
year medical student or fourth year medical student at Howard
University an American university George Washington University, sorry, George Washing
University and Howard University, and they had to do interactions
with patients and the page rated them on like a

(34:01):
seventeen measure of like how satisfied they were, how informed
they felt, how much they trusted the doctor right, and
before they went into their patient interviews that morning, we
had the dean give half the people a manipulation because
people were separating different rooms because they couldn't all fit,
and so for one of them he said, you know,
when you go in and meet your patients, really try

(34:22):
to take their perspective. Try to think about what it's
like to be on that side of the table. And
to help you practice, think about time when you took
someone's perspective. We're going to have you. Give you five
minutes to do that. The other people, you know, no
intervention at the When we look at the patients satisfaction ratings,
the people who had a perspective taking doctor. And here's

(34:42):
the key thing. You know, the people didn't know about
the manipulation, like the patients knew nothing about it. Same
thing back when I talked about power and those interviews
and the speeches people interviewing. The people didn't know that
there had been a manipulation, right you know. So so
the receivers are blind. But the patient rated their perspectaking doctors.
They felt more satisfied, more informed. And here's I think

(35:05):
one of the things that I found most valuable is
they trusted the doctors more. And why does that matter?
Because trust is one of the best predictors of actually
complying with your treatment resurement. If you trust your doctor,
you're going to follow their advice. And then what's the
what's the correlation there? Well, you know it was experimental manipulation,

(35:28):
you know, so you know, I didn't look at exercise
that you don't have to go back is we published
paper in twenty ten, so that was fifteen years ago,
so I don't remember. You know, it was probably the
effect size probably wasn't very large. But what I'll say
to you is that, like you know, if you go
back to you know Rosno and Rosenthal's you know, binomial

(35:49):
effects dice display, right, you know, even a tiny effect,
you know, if it moves people from the failure to
success condition is a huge.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
Impact, right, Yeah, No, no, it's it's clearly very important work.
I'm I'm actually I'm just curious, you know, just how much.
It's a great question of an effect because it's not
something that doctors are trained. It's not part of the
training program, and why not.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yeah, But but I want to say one thing about this.
You know, we talked about who's inspiring who's infuriating. You know,
I think you know, as a doctor, you know, if
you wake up and you're kind of on the grumpy
side of you wake up at you know, uh, you
think your first appointments at ten at nine, but it's
really ten, and so you wake up earlier than you
wanted to, which I know happens sometimes to people. And uh,

(36:39):
and then you're a little grumpy. I think if you
just take a step back and say, okay, I got
to take the perspective of my patients, you're going to
be a more inspiring doctor that day than if you
fail to engage in that reflection.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
Yes, well, this could apply to anything. Yeah, not just doctors.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah, wow, teachers.

Speaker 2 (36:59):
You know, well, we're we're a little bit all over
the place. But I'm okay with that because this is
all it's.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
All going towards one final point. It's all. It's like
the end of the Loki the first season. You all good.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
There's a telios to this conversation. So I want to
call back something you talked about a little bit earlier.
We talked. We just so briefly touched on the word
status and esteem. But I think it's such an important
one because you talk about expanding the status pie.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
That's another phrase I love.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
Yeah. Well, no, I mean you have your book is
full of Adam Golinski originals.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
Yeah, yeah, you know, expendence that is pie. You know
what I really so I kind of coined this phrase,
but it's because I've been teaching negotiations for twenty five
years and we talked about expanding the pie, the negotiating pie.
And then one day I realized most people think about
the and the big problem negotiations is most people think
about the pie is fixed, but it's actually oftentimes spable.

(38:00):
And I have this epiphany. It was literally just like
four years ago, you know, it was in sometime in
the you know, some reason past that, like most people
think about, status is fixed. If I give you credit,
I lose credit, right, you know. But then I realized that,
you know, the status pize expandable. If I give you credit,
you gain in status. But so do I because people

(38:20):
really like the person that shares credit, you know. And
now it doesn't mean it works in every possible situation.
Sometimes we've got to own our own, you know, contributions.
But the idea is that when you can recognize other people,
that fills them right with an empowering sense of respect.

(38:40):
But people also see you as a good guy, as
a good person right, as as the right type of person,
the person they would want to leave them and so
you know, sharing credit is actually, to use another negotiation term,
preredo optimal, right, it's going to make the world a
better place.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
Well that's really interesting because of course you know about
the two dimensioned warmth and warmth and competent.

Speaker 3 (39:07):
Can you.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
Be a certain kind of inspiring leader where you demonstrate both.
I mean, you know, I think of that whenever every
time someone tells me about the worth comp mentions, I
think about that meme why not both? You know with
the girl? You know, so can you yeah, tell me
your thoughts about connecting this to that continue those continuums.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
Well, you know, one of the things that I mentioned
this in the book, but you know, I really like
this might be another you know, Glinskyism. But like I say,
to be superhuman not human super And what I mean
by that is that, like there's so many evident like
Linda Rottenberg, CEO of company called Endeavor. You know, she's

(39:50):
this incredible leader, but she says she didn't really become
an inspiring leader until she started talking about her human side,
in this case, her husband's battle with cancer. But I
always tell people, like, if she exposed her vulnerability at
the beginning, no one would have taken her serious as
a leader. It's like, you know, Hillary Clinton cries and

(40:12):
it transforms her into a human you know, Elizabeth Dole
cries at the beginning of her campaign and she's done right,
you know. And so you want to establish your competence first.
And once you establish her confidence, competence allows you to
be generous. And I'll just say, like, I honestly think
the one thing that I most enjoy about having status

(40:33):
in the world is it gives me the opportunity to
be generous to other people, right, you know, And I
love being generous. In fact, I have a values card.
It's in my wallet right here, and my number one
value is generosity. That's what I believe is the most
important thing. Yeah, exactly. But but but I think that

(40:53):
you know, we can expand the test pie And I'll
give you one example that I love. I was got
invited to speak before the top hundred executives at Fox
and Rupert Burdock and along with a guy named Sir
David Brailsford, and Sir Dave Brailsford was knighted by the
Queen because he took British cycling from a doormat to

(41:16):
the top of the Olympic Mountain. They hadn't won a
gold medal, I think on one hundred years, and then suddenly,
within you know, six years, he's taken them to you know,
the most medals at the Olympics. And then he conquered
the Tour Defronce. He created a brand new team called
Team Sky and they won five of six Tour de Frances.
How did they do this? Well, this is what he said.

(41:38):
I thought, this is one of the most important things
I've ever heard. He said. Cycling is a team sport.
We are a team, but there's an inherent problem. One
person gets all the glory, right. It's you know, the
lands of Armstrong, right, you know, the person who everyone
sees that the top writer, right, you know, but everyone's
working help the person. He said, So I have a

(41:59):
job to do as a leader, which is to acknowledge
the contributions that each person made that day to the
team's success, which, of course one person's getting most of
the credit. So I'm like, you know, Scott, he wouldn't
have won this, you know, leg today if and if
you hadn't chased that breakaway down, you know, and Mike,
you know, if you hadn't you know, taken the lead

(42:21):
and drafted like he would have been too tired to
make that climb up the hill. And you know, Bob
over here, you know, it was so great that you
were able to keep everyone you know on that curveent,
you know, whatever it was. And He's like, every single day,
I'm thinking about what did each person do that was
really helpful and acknowledging them. And I think that's one
of the most important things that we can do as
a leader, is to recognize people. When people feel seen,

(42:46):
it's transformative. I mean, everybody wants to be seen. Everyone's
to be recognized. It's true. You know, I've been teaching.
I teach for a group of high potential women in
the wine and spirits industry, and one of them gave
me a handwritten card recently and it was the I

(43:06):
think the most like I've never felt more seen in
my life. She said, you know, the you know, the
child in me, you know, was moved by your visual language.
You know, the you know, the actor in me was
moved by your practical tips. The human in me was
moved by your the way you created so much interaction
among the classmates, you know, and the scientist and me

(43:30):
was moved by your research findings. And if you had
asked me what I want to do as a teacher,
I would say I want to take scientifically validated ideas,
present them in an engaging way while people get to
interact with each other and learn from each other, and
then give them ways to demonstrate that practically in their
own lives. And she like recognized all four of those things.
And I've never felt more seen. I mean, leaders, you know,

(43:54):
want to be seen. Right So when we you know,
I you know, you know, praised my Dean recently and
someone asked me, like, who's the most you know, inspiring
person in my life right now? And I said my Dean.
And part of it is because he's he's strategically brilliant,
he is deep humanity and empathy others. But he also
listens to feedback and I can go to him, I

(44:16):
can say you could do this one thing better, and
he's like, you're right, you know, and and you know,
But then I sent my Dean, you know, the article
when it when it came out with me talking about him,
I was like, you know, I just want you know,
like like you inspire me.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
Oh, this is such a sweet conversation.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
I mean you you talked about passion before you know,
and I really you know, and I mentioned earlier in
this book is my heart and soul Like I really
I think you can see my infectious, youthful, authentic passion.
I love this material. I really think it makes the
world a better place.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
Oh absolutely, yeah. Do you think inspirations infectious?

Speaker 1 (44:58):
I do, I do you know? And I think it's reciprocal,
and so I have I don't have this in the book.
I created SAFF for the book. Another glinskyism. I call
it reput you so and REEF comes from the Bible,
which is that like the energy we put out, the
energy we get back, you put out inspiration again, inspiration back.
But my REAP is r E I P because it's

(45:19):
an acronym for reflect on your experience, emulate inspiring leaders
in your life, form an intention to be more inspiring,
and then practice it r E. I yes, good you
and yeah, and so let me just give you. You know,
I don't know how much time we have left, but

(45:40):
I want to. I think this is one of the
great practical tips that I could give people, which is
how and this is I think gets back this idea
about like expanding the inspiring pie right and inspiring energy
in the world. But getting back to that reap, So
I talked about a guy named Joseph Stigliano in my book.
He's president of a bank. He's got twelve hundred employees,

(46:02):
and he sends a birthday note to every one of
his employees. Now, he's got to be pretty organized to
do this right. And he showed me the note. The
note is one line and he does about five of
these a day over his cup of coffee. And line
might be like, you know, hey, Scott, happy birthday. How
was you know bullying? You know, this person went bullying.

(46:22):
And then you know, the person write backs a novel like,
oh my god, bolliing was amazing, blah blah blah blah,
you know, or bowling was tough this weekend, you know,
whatever it was. And you know, so I share that story,
you know, around the world. And then I got a
call from a CEO and he said, I got to
tell you I adapted what Joseph Stigliano did. Every morning,

(46:43):
over my cup of coffee, I send out either a
compliment or an expression of gratitude to someone in my orbit.
And I might say Hey, Scott, I was just thinking
about just what a great conversation you led last week
on your podcast, or it might be Hey, you know,
I couldn't have gotten that idea out without you know,

(47:05):
your help. Thanks so much for you know, assisting me.
And he said three things to me that I think
were really interesting. The first thing he said was, you know,
when you give someone a compliment in person, they get embarrassed,
you know, they're like, oh, you know, he said, but
when you give it over writing, they get to savor it,
they get to share it, and they feel more comfortable responding,

(47:30):
you know, with a lot of enthusiasm back to you, right,
you know, and whereas in person, I think he gets muted,
you know. And he said. The second thing he said
is I did this to put a skip in their step,
but I got these incredible responses back. Oh my god,
thank you so much. I'm finally going to take, you know,
my spouse out to that incredible restaurant they wanted to

(47:51):
go to because you're a compliment. Today, I feel so,
you know, I'm on top of the world. He said,
it put a skip in his step, knowing that he'd
put a skip in their step, you know, because of
their responses back. So you said so by sending it
by by text. You know, someone told me I read
your text five times over the weekend. Right, they got
to savor it. You know. I shared it with my spouse,

(48:12):
you know, my mom, you know, and then you know
they also get you get this expression back. So if
I was going to say anything to your listeners, your
your you know incredible listeners out there, I would say,
at least once a day, go out of your way
to try to compliment someone or express gratitude towards someone.
And if you make that a daily habit. The CEO

(48:33):
does it over his cup of coffee, Joseph stigand who
does it over his cup of coffee? Right, if we
build it in a practice that you know, we don't
have to think about it, it happens automatically, you're going to
make their world better, You're going to make your world better,
and you're going to spread the seats of inspiration.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
I really like that. That's us in positive psychology as well. Yeah,
I really like that. Do you teach positive psychology in
any reclasses?

Speaker 1 (49:01):
I mean a little bit. I mean, you know, I
certainly teach about the role of optimism as a leader, right,
and how important it is to help people see. You know,
I love this line from George W. Bush's two thousand
convention speech, which is the last paragraph that says Americans
live on the sunrise side of the mountain and just

(49:22):
that idea, right that we're like we're on the dawn
of a better tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
I love it. I love it. Well. Along these lines,
a lot of people are talking about DEI and all that,
and people on the right like bashing in and put
all that aside. I think we all can agree that
fairness is important, you know, Like, no matter what your
political views are, I hope we all can agree that
fairness is win. And so I really appreciate the use

(49:50):
that word in your book to kind of try to
sidestep a lot of this. And so how can you
inspire fairness in organizations?

Speaker 1 (49:58):
It's funny, right because I I very purposely use the
word inspiring fairness rather than inspiring equity to get about.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
What I'm saying. I see you, I see I.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
Did. Yeah, you know, And I'll just say, you know,
the one Achilles heel like I'm the viceting of di I.
I've been the vice dean of the and so like. Obviously,
I'm a strong proponent of having a diverse, inclusive, and
fair place, but diversities one Achilles heel is that when

(50:36):
you create preferential pathways for some groups, the groups that
are those pathways are going to feel it's unfair, right,
And so I think Trump tapped into a justifiable sense
of resentment, right, that that people experienced, you know, white resentment,
and so I do think that, you know, it's I

(50:59):
think it tells us a larger story that if we're
unfair today, people are going to want it compensation tomorrow,
but the people tomorrow who aren't being contemplated are going
to think it's unfair. So if we're unfair today, we
just create cycles of unfairness for the future, right. And
so that's one of the reasons why it's so important
to be as fair as possible. And I think that's
where we start with values. You articulate the values and

(51:21):
the system, and if everyone understands it, then it's fair.
I tell a story in the book about how when
I was at Northwestern, we used to fight about hiring
every single year, and we would argue about the rules
and everyone's trying to manipulate the rules to try to
fit their preferred candidate, and I this is the honest truth.

(51:44):
I think the only time in my life I've actually
felt homicidal was during these faculty meetings, like for people manipulating,
and then so one had a great idea. They're like,
let's meet in the summer when we don't have any
candidates on the table and come up with the rules
that we're going to use, and we're going to write
them down. We're going to create a constitution and these
are going to be the rules. And after that I

(52:04):
want a lot of times, but I also lost some times.
And when I lost, I was sad but not angry, right,
you know, because because the rules were fair, we'd set
them up in advance. So I think that's really important.
Thing is the thing very carefully at the very beginning
of what's going to be a fair procedure, because if
you start off with unfairness, you're just creating an infuriating cycle.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
Wait wait, wait, this is so important, This is so important.
I don't want to gloss over this. So fairness for everyone. Yeah,
And I think being minded about that, I really appreciate
the way you're thinking about this.

Speaker 1 (52:41):
I really do what we want and I think everyone
agreed to this is we want fairness and opportunity, right,
and so if everyone has fair opportunity and we want
to eliminate bias, right, I mean, there's some ways we
can do this, right, Like this is probably the greatest example.
In fact, the person did this research one then Nobel
Prize in economics the best way to create gender diversity

(53:06):
in symphony orchestras blind auditions. Yeah. Right, that's not giving
anyone an advantage, right, It's not giving women an advantage
because they've been unfairly treating in the past. It's that
women were being unfairly treated because people saw they were
women and then judge them differently. My favorite part of
the story is that they they realized they had to

(53:26):
either put down carpet or have people take off their
shoes because you'd hear the click click click of heels
and know as a woman, and so obviously putting down carpet.
Some people don't like to take off their shoes. But like,
you know, the idea of like you had to eliminate
different footwear from hearing the different footwear. But that's a
good example of that, right, you know, Another example would

(53:47):
be like, look, we know the sets are the single
most important, one of the single most important things for
getting people into schools. Some people are hiring tutors, right
and working really hard, you know, and they have money
to do that. And but are there other ways that
we can help people get the same type of tutory right,
great opportunities even within schools, right, so that we're giving

(54:08):
everyone the opportunity to be better and do better.

Speaker 2 (54:11):
I love it, you know. I have a section in
my new book called in Power DEI And I mean
that's really what I'm talking about.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
Yes, absolutely, it should be.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
Inspiring two people to feel as though they belong and
to feel is not just that they belong, but that
they have that they're valued. Yeah, and you were talking
earlier about the importance of being seen. There's something very
inspiring about feeling like you're seen for not just your belonging,

(54:41):
but also for your positive contribution you can make to
the group. I don't see them as exactly the same thing. Yeah,
but they're both important, you know.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
Yeah, And I think you know, I'll tell a story
about it. This is a former student of mind, a
black man. He told me this great story in class
he told it in class, you know, but we had
a huge discussion around it. Like he you know, got
hired right out of college and he was in a band.
He was a drummer in a band. He loved playing
in this band, but he was so worried that his

(55:12):
colleagues would look down on him for being in a band.
So his colleagues would say to him, what are you
doing this weekend? And he would deflect because he didn't
want to reveal the truth, and so everyone's like, who,
this guy's kind of weird, you know, And then you know,
one day he finally opened up to one of his
friends that said, oh, you know, I'm in this band.
He's like, oh, I'd love to come see you play,

(55:33):
And then he did, and then the friend told other
people that he had seen it, and then he played
a show and there were like twenty people from the
firm there, and you know, he ended up getting you know, sponsored,
which is a big deal in a consulting company where
you get sponsored and now you are you know, you
have to pay for business gool, which is you know,
hundreds of thousands of dollars these days. And one of

(55:55):
the partners said to him, he's like, if you hadn't
shared that life aspect of you, we never would have
sponsored you because we didn't know you, you know. And everyone
was better off because he shared who he was. Like,
he was better off because he had to be more authentic.
He was also better off because he was more valued
by other people. They were better off because they felt

(56:16):
more connected to him and felt he was a better,
you know, more important part of the team. And so
I think there's also a sense of, like with DEI,
of helping people be more authentic. I just published a
paper in organization science showing that in organizations that have
really preached bringing your your full self to work, it

(56:38):
actually is a DEI positive effect, meaning that like black
individuals feel more comfortable bringing their full self to work.
And what I love about that that's an inclusive policy,
affair policy. It's not saying women should bring their self
to work or underrepresented more. Everyone should bring them self
to work, and that includes people who are underrepresented.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
I love that. Can you please send it to me.
There's someone I have a colleague of mine, she's really
into this and I would love to send her. Yeah,
just to end, is there what would be the absolute
tippy top message you'd want to give people from this book.
If someone said, you can totally give me one message
about this book, you know it's.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
Interesting, I would say two things. I would say, I
want to say three things. I want titles, So back
to your book too. The first thing I would say
is that each and every one of us can be
more inspiring. We can do it by engaging in the
right reflections, right the right emulations, creating the writing tangents,
and practicing right that are I p the reap. But

(57:43):
the second thing is that when we're more inspiring, we
are creating a better world. And it's especially true when
we're a leader because of the leader amplification effect. We
have a responsibility duty to be inspiring because otherwise we're
going to spread ires of infuriation. And I think, you know,

(58:03):
your last chapter of your book talks about like when
you empower yourself, you can empower others. But I also
think that when we inspire others, we also inspire ourselves,
you know, So tell the story of the CEO that, like,
you know, when he sent out his compliments and gratitude,
he got wonderful things back, and then that inspired him

(58:25):
to do that even more so in some ways, you know,
you know, we maybe we should write a paper, right,
you know, empower yourself to empower others, but inspire others
to inspire yourself. Right, it's like this reciprocal coin.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
I love that, Adam. It's a great fusion integration of
both of our passions. And although I am very very
passionate about that too as well, what you do. And
I wonder if there's some sort of acronym we can
come up.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
That's catchier than than that saying thing. I you're so
good at coming up.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
I love acronyms. I'll just tell you one to you know,
trying to understand what is inequality, I came up with
the road to inequality. It's differences and resources, opportunities, appraisals,
and deference. And if you think about all of those, right,
Like people who are advantage, they have more resources, more
opportunities are appraised or evaluated more positively, and people defer

(59:22):
to them. So it's the road to inequality.

Speaker 2 (59:26):
Oh, that's so cool. And then and then just returned
to the EII academic what does that stand for?

Speaker 1 (59:31):
Oh? I was just like trying to make a oh,
empowered to empower, inspire to.

Speaker 3 (59:35):
Inspire, got it? Yeah, yeah, no, I was just trying
to come up with some but you did it. Okay, Well,
what do we call them the glinskyisms? I guess so yeah, yeah, yeah, Hey,
thank you so much for coming on my podcast.

Speaker 2 (59:47):
It was long overdue, but I can't wait to shine
the spotlight on your amazing and really important work in
the world today.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
So well, you know, I've probably done fifty podcasts and
I can honestly say that this was my favorite conversation
so far.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
W thank you, Adam, thank you, thank you.