February 17, 2025 • 22 mins
Hello, Puzzlers! Puzzling with us today: the iconic director of Men in Black, Get Shorty, The Addams Family, and more, Barry Sonnenfeld!
Join host A.J. Jacobs and his guests as they puzzle–and laugh–their way through new spins on old favorites, like anagrams and palindromes, as well as quirky originals such as “Ask Chat GPT” and audio rebuses.
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"The Puzzler with A.J. Jacobs" is distributed by iHeartPodcasts and is a co-production with Neuhaus Ideas.
Our executive producers are Neely Lohmann and Adam Neuhaus of Neuhaus Ideas, and Lindsay Hoffman of iHeart Podcasts.
The show is produced by Jody Avirgan and Brittani Brown of Roulette Productions.
Our Chief Puzzle Officer is Greg Pliska. Our associate producer is Andrea Schoenberg.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello, puzzlers. Let's start with a quick puzzle. What do
these three things have in common? Scotch tape, French horn,
and Russian dressing. Scotch tape, French horn, Russian dressing. The
answer after the break, Welcome back to the puzzler. The
(00:24):
coconut pecan frosting on your German chocolate cake. I'm Aj.
Jacobs and I'm here with Chief Puzzle Officer Greg Kliscott.
Before the break, we asked, what do these three things
have in common? Scotch tape, French horn, Russian dressing.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Greg, you can eat them, you can eat No, they
all have this country adjective says they're in the front
of them. Scotch tape, French horn, Russian dressing.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I'll give you a partial credit because that is true.
But there is something more. They were named all things
not invented in that country. Scotch tape was invented in
the US, not Scotland, French horn in Germany, and Russian
dressing also in the US. I bring this up because
our guest today plays the French horn, or at least
(01:12):
he did as a youngster. Now I will say that
is not He's not famous for his French horn playing. However,
he is famous for something else, which is directing a
whole bunch of classic movies and TV shows Men in Black,
Get Shorty, The Adams Family, Schmiga Dune, which I loved.
(01:35):
In case you haven't seen it, please do. I'm talking
about Barry Sonnenfeld. Welcome Barry Sonenfeld.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Well, thank you Aj.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
By the way, my favorite Sarah Lee cake was their
German chocolate cake.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Oh see, there you go. Well now you know it
is not German. I just want to say it's a
thrill to have Barry. But to give some context, I
should mention I've known Barry for many years because in
addition to directing major motion pictures, Barry, you had a
side hustle.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
I did for ten years.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
I was the digital man for Esquire magazine and my
first editor was AJ Jacobs, and he used to have
to read all my reviews of plasma televisions and headphones
and liquored cases, all sorts of stuff we did together.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
I was a very demanding boss.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
If I recall, my memory was you were my favorite editor,
although Dave Katz will be very upset about that. But
Dave was a little bit more of a he was
a little more stringent than you.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Yeah, there you go. All right, Well, I think you'll
feel that today. There's not a lot of stringency on
the puzzler. But you did turn out to be a
great writer, not just about gadgets. But you've since written
two awesome books. And they are awesome. I mean I
love them. They are Barry Sonenfeld, Call Your Mother, and
more recently Best Possible Place, Worst Possible Time. And they
(03:09):
are hilarious, sometimes poignant, mostly hilarious but a little poignant.
And yeah, I can't recommend them highly enough, even though
I don't appear in them.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
But other than that, okay, third, you will appear in that.
How's that excellent?
Speaker 1 (03:25):
And the puzzle is about bizarro Hollywood, opposite Hollywood, So
all the answers are titles that are the exact opposite
of movies here on earth. So, for instance, if the
clue were the bizarro movie Women in White, the answer
would be men in Black. Not all of the answers
(03:47):
will be your movies, but they will all have actors
you've worked with. There are so many stories in the
book we'll never get to like five percent of them,
So you still have to buy the book, but Barry
might be nice enough to tell of some of the highlights.
All right, so are you ready, yes, sir, okay, Monday
morning hypothermia. Monday morning hypothermia.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
Right, So hypothermia. The opposite of that would be warm hot.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yes, but specifically yes, in bowl fever it would.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
So Monday morning is not the opposite of Saturday night exactly.
But I'm gonna go with and call me crazy here,
Saturday night fever.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
You would be correct. Yes, I know it's not tech like,
it's not Wednesday whatever, but I figured it's the most
fun time of the week allegedly is Saturday night. The
least fun Monday morning. So yes, Monday morning hypothermia is
Saturday night fever. Let me give you a couple of
more Travalta Flawed. This was a movie called Flawed with
(04:57):
g Jamie Lee Curtis, Jamie Lee Curtis in a oh
personally attired Yes, yeah, good, perfect is perfect, all right. Last,
John Travolta is high brow literature, hybrolow literature, the opposite.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Of that, oh, pulp fiction.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Pulp fiction exactly. Now, speaking of John Travolta, you writing
your book that John is a lovely lovely man, but
he did have a different working style from the other star,
Gene Hackman, his co star, So can you tell us
about that?
Speaker 3 (05:36):
John is lovely. I've never met an actor that loved
being a movie star more than John. But there's a
difference between being a movie star and being an actor.
Actors really should know their lines.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
John, he had a terrible time learning his lines, and
the first day of shooting, I stupidly decided since it
was just two guys sitting opposite each other, there's no blocking,
there's no you know, big tracking shots or having to
light for exteriors or worrying about the sun moving. It
(06:13):
was just two guys sitting opposite each other. So I
scheduled an eight page scene, which is an insane amount
of work. I will admit that. So it's the first
day of shooting. John said to Gene, Hey, Geene, what
did you do this weekend? And Jean said, with eight
freaking pages to learn, although he didn't use the word freaking,
(06:36):
I didn't do anything.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
But have you know, learn my dialogue?
Speaker 4 (06:41):
And John, God love him, said, that's a waste of
a weekend.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
So I knew I was in trouble.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
These two guys are sitting opposite each other rehearsing.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
G knows all of his lines. John is not only
reading from his grip, but not reading it well. He's
not coming in.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
And the thing about comedy is everyone should be stepping
on each other's lines. Everyone should be talking quickly. There
should be no space between one person's statement and another.
But you can't do that if the actors don't.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Know their lines. So we struggle through it. We do
a couple of takes.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Meanwhile, my wife, who is a producer on the show,
is back there. We have to reload the camera. We're
shooting on films, so she's a video village and I
go to whisper to her and I say, how great
is Hackman? And she says, oh, no, he's fantastic.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
I go back.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
We're reloaded. I say, okay, we're ready to go. Oh, Gene,
stand up one line sooner roll camera. We start to row.
Gene Hackman says, cut the camera. You don't know what
the fuck you're doing. You have no clue. You'll take
advice from anyone. Your wife tells you where I should
stand up, and you tell me this. So I say
(07:52):
to the first assistant director see if we're ready for lunch.
And the ad says, ready for lunch. We're just starting
to day. The cater wouldn't be ready for like a
minimum of three hours.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
So I say, break for lunch. So we break for lunch.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
I go up to Hackman and I say, and this
is why directing is sort of like being a parent
in many ways. I say to Hackman, Hey, Gene, I
just want you to know if you need to yell
at me for the next twelve weeks, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
It doesn't bother me at all.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
So go ahead and yell at me. And he says,
what are you talking about? I go, I know you're
not mad at me. I know you didn't think my
wife told me to tell you to stand up a
line earlier. You're furious at John for not knowing his lines,
but you can't yell at him because you've got to
deal with him for the next twelve weeks on screen.
(08:48):
But you're so enraged gott to yell at.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Someone, So yell at me. I don't care.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
And he says, all right, come to my camper. We'll
have lunch together. And that was the worst day of
my life, practically, sitting with Gene as he's telling me
all of his issues in life and how he wears
a hair shirt, and aj Jacobson tell the audience all
about hair shirts.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Well, they that was one of the craziest details from
your book. It's like what medieval monks wore to punish themselves.
It's super uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
You mean he literally wears a hairshirt metaphoric.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Metaphorically he wears a hairshirt.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Oh yeah, but it's yes, it's exactly you wear it.
It's made of like scratchy wool. I thought it was
the way that Brits used to punish people. Instead of
sending them to jail, they just made him wear hairshirts.
But I like yours better.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
But the best part is at the end. He was
cranky the whole shoot, and then at the end he
came up and said.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
He came up to me at the premiere and it
was probably the first movie he's ever seen himself in,
because he hates seeing himself in movies and he never
watches them. But he stayed at the premiere and watched
Get Shorty, and Jean took me aside and said, all right,
here's the thing.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
The movie's really good.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
And I said, well, thanks, Geene, he said, But here's
the thing. The whole time I thought I was working
with you, I didn't think you Barry had a clue.
And I said, oh, that's okay, Gane. He said, shut
up and let me finish. Sorry, Jeane, I just want
you to know that if I thought you knew what
you were doing, I could have been so much better. Oh,
(10:30):
I said, you were fine, Gane.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
You were fine.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Yeah, he was great. But the good lesson for all
you actors out there. Well, while we're on Gene Hackman,
let me give you a couple of his opposite movies.
Are you ready?
Speaker 3 (10:48):
It's gonna be tougher.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Yeah, mediocre woman, that's all one word. Mediocre woman, great man, Yeah,
something man. That's right, you got that. And my wife
Julie had had the saint. She went through all of
the synonyms for great until she came to this one.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Not a scarecrow. He plays the bad guy is the villa.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
In Oh Superman, Superman.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
That's a good one.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Yep. He was a great legs luthor. Actually, yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Mean he's the best.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
All right.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
This one is I'm gonna walk you through. I'll give
you a hint because it's a little tricky, the soft,
the soft. So think of the opposite of soft, but
think mattresses.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Firm.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
That's it, the firm, the firm, exactly. All right, Let's
move on to another actor in this movie. He was
in the movie the Bizarro movie. Senior is a Clue?
Is the opposite movie? Senior's the Bizarro movie. I'm not
(12:03):
telling you the actor because it'll oh, well again.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
It's not Danny DeVito and Schwarzenegger.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
And yes it is, it is, Ye, don't so Danny DeVito,
who I'll give you one more. He was in Junior
without one more. Danny de Vito was the piece of
the violets. Now that's p e a ce that that.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Yeah, yeah, that's an easy one. That's an easy one.
You're ready, ready, Okay, what are the roses exactly?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
And I have to are roses really the opposite of violets?
Speaker 1 (12:38):
That's a good question. I felt that they were opposite enough,
because roses are red, violets are blue. So that's a
big contrast. Greg's not sure he's buying it. Allow it,
I'll allow it.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
But regardless, roses a reddish, violets are bluish. If it
weren't for Christ, we'd all be jewish that.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
I did very good.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
I did not know that.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Yeah, saved by the poem. The poem.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Uh, well, you've been friends with Danny DeVito for many,
many years. He gave you a very nice compliment about
Blood Simple, which you were were the cinematographer for with
the Cohen Brothers.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
Yeah, Danny, Yeah, he told me that when he and
Rio went to see Blood Simple, she was very pregnant
and her water broke while watching Blood Simple and she
had to be rushed to the hospital to give birth
to one of their kids.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Yeah. So he Uh, and that's Rhea Perlman, his former wife.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
So that's right, former wife.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
So you helped, Yes, you helped Usher and his child.
All right, this person was not in get shorty, but
you did have a meeting with him to discuss it and.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Go on.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
All right, what's the question? What's the question?
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Hell can't go, Hell can't go.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Okay, I'm going to go with Heaven can't wait.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Heaven can wait, Hell cannot go. It is a little concerned.
I always thought it was Heaven can't wait either, but.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
Right, no, it's Kevin that makes more sense. Heavin can wait.
By the way, the reason. Danny wanted me to shoot
war the Roses, which looked great, but I couldn't shoot
it because I was about to shoot my last, second
to last movie for the Coen Brothers, which was Miller's Crossing.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Great movie. All right, well me let me just add
I did love your meeting with Warren Betty, so you
just gotta tell us about that quickly.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
So it took us, Danny, I read the book in paperback,
Get Shorty, written by m. R. Leonard, one of the
great writers and loveliest human beings, and we got the rights,
but it took us seven years, six years to get
that movie made. No one wanted to make a movie
that was inside Hollywood, and no one wants wanted to
(15:00):
make an Elmore leented movie because none of the movies
based on his books ever made money. And the reason
is none of the directors got his tone. They either
tried to be too funny or not funny enough. And
so we finally get MGM to agree to make the movie,
(15:23):
but they give us a list of movie stars that
they want in order to make the movie. So I
have to get on a plane to meet Dustin Hoffman.
I fly out there. We meeted some Brentwood diner. He
didn't want to do the part. He just wanted to
know if the person Shorty and Get Shorty was based
(15:45):
on him, and I said I don't know. He said, look,
I'm not going to do your movie. When an actres
says I'm not going to do your movie, that means
convince me.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
To do it instead.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
I said, okay, thanks, because he was wrong for it anyway.
So I left us, and a week later, Danny calls again, Barry,
you got to go back to La You got to
meet Warren.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Baby fly out there.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Warren is staying with his wife and kid at the
Hotel bel Air because he there was recently the north
Ridge earthquake, so his house was sort of destroyed, so
he's living at.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
The bell Air.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
So I check into the bell Air on a Thursday
evening and I call his room and it goes to
boysmail and and go.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Hi, Warren, it's Barry's sun and fed. We have a meeting.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
Call me back so we know what time tomorrow we
can meet. So that first night, Thursday night, no war,
all day, Friday, no warn, all day, Saturday, no warn,
but Saturday night still no warn.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
I haven't left the bel air.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
They're running out of New York strips and Velvetdere vodka
because that's all I'm eating and drinking. So Sunday morning,
I call Warren and say get the voicemail, and I say, look,
I've got a two o'clock plane, so I like to
get to the airport. So I like to get the
(17:13):
airport three or four hours early. I'm going to leave
at ten am. If you want to meet me, let's
meet really soon because I'm going to be leaving. And
by the way, if we don't get together, it was lovely.
I had a great time at the.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Hotel right the same bes stake.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Yeah, you know again. You got to figure out who
you're dealing with. So Warren calls me back immediately and
he goes, Barry, I'm so sorry, I've been so busy.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Okay, let's meet it too. So I go. I sit
there mister Baty's table. I'm waiting.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Around two twenty five, Warren shows up with his kid.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
So that's hard to deal with.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
And Warren says to me, you know what, Barry, I
loved your script and I will do the movie as
long as you can answer just one question. And I'm
in and I said, great, what's the question. He goes, well,
the main character, this Chili Palmer guy, he's like a
(18:18):
low level mob guy. He's like a numbers runner. I said, well, yeah,
that's true. But by the end of the movie he's
a big time producer, so he has this great arc.
He says, I understand that, but at the beginning Chili
is just a low level numbers runner. I go, I
guess you could say that, and he goes, well, I
(18:40):
look like Warren Baby. Why would someone who looks like
me be such a low level guy in the mob?
Speaker 3 (18:50):
So I said, you know, you're absolutely right. And here's
the thing.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
We have a plumber in East Hampton named John Ward.
This man is gorgeous, but he's a plumber. Sometimes it
just happens that good looking guys don't become like, you know,
like major actors or presidents or anything. And Warren said,
I totally understand that, but I look like Warren Baby.
(19:19):
So I sent ahead, you are absolutely right. I was
wrong to even consider you. Thank you so much for
your time. Please put your check on my tab at
my and I have to go to the airport. I
got to the airport like six hours early. Just to
get away from being at the bel air. And then,
(19:40):
of course what happens is as soon as you say
you're right, you're.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Wrong for it.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
Now he's constantly calling me because well maybe I'm wrong.
I said, no, no, no, you're right. Let's move on,
because you know, you get stuck with those things for
months and it never happens.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
That is so crazy. I love that story. I mean,
allegedly the song You're So Vain is about Warren Baty.
Maybe maybe not, but it seems that he does have
a bit of that personality trait that is hilarious. Right,
all right, So I'm gonna do extra credits about Dustin Hoffman,
(20:18):
a man that you mentioned you did meet with him.
You called him a power whisperer in your book, which
I love. All Right, I'm going to give four and
you could do the first two Barry and then the
last two for the for the folks at home. The
Dropout starring Dustin Hoffman is the drop the dropout in
(20:42):
something in No.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
No, actually, that's a Nazi opposite of the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
The opposite in this case of the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
If you go to college, you could be a dropout
or or you could be a freshman or.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
A senior who then gets through the scene.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Geez graduate. Thanks guys.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
How about birth of a customer, Birth of a customer,
death of salesman exactly, all right? And then for the
folks at home, shine woman, shine woman, sprint woman, and
noon farmer.
Speaker 4 (21:23):
And you're saying that a farmer is the opposite of
a cowboy if I'm not mistaken, exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
The farmer and the cowman can't be friends nicely.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
So that's three for the audience.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
That's right. You can cast me and shmake of Dune
three if you want, with my singing voice. All right, Well,
that was awesome, so thank you Barry for coming, and
folks at home, if you like the show, please check
out our Instagram feed at Hello Puzzlers, where we post
original puzzles and other fun stuff. And we'll meet you
here tomorrow for more puzzling puzzles. It will puzzle you puzzlingly.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
B
Hello, puzzlers. Let's start with a quick puzzle. What do
these three things have in common? Scotch tape, French horn,
and Russian dressing. Scotch tape, French horn, Russian dressing. The
answer after the break, Welcome back to the puzzler. The
(00:24):
coconut pecan frosting on your German chocolate cake. I'm Aj.
Jacobs and I'm here with Chief Puzzle Officer Greg Kliscott.
Before the break, we asked, what do these three things
have in common? Scotch tape, French horn, Russian dressing.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Greg, you can eat them, you can eat No, they
all have this country adjective says they're in the front
of them. Scotch tape, French horn, Russian dressing.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I'll give you a partial credit because that is true.
But there is something more. They were named all things
not invented in that country. Scotch tape was invented in
the US, not Scotland, French horn in Germany, and Russian
dressing also in the US. I bring this up because
our guest today plays the French horn, or at least
(01:12):
he did as a youngster. Now I will say that
is not He's not famous for his French horn playing. However,
he is famous for something else, which is directing a
whole bunch of classic movies and TV shows Men in Black,
Get Shorty, The Adams Family, Schmiga Dune, which I loved.
(01:35):
In case you haven't seen it, please do. I'm talking
about Barry Sonnenfeld. Welcome Barry Sonenfeld.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Well, thank you Aj.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
By the way, my favorite Sarah Lee cake was their
German chocolate cake.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Oh see, there you go. Well now you know it
is not German. I just want to say it's a
thrill to have Barry. But to give some context, I
should mention I've known Barry for many years because in
addition to directing major motion pictures, Barry, you had a
side hustle.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
I did for ten years.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
I was the digital man for Esquire magazine and my
first editor was AJ Jacobs, and he used to have
to read all my reviews of plasma televisions and headphones
and liquored cases, all sorts of stuff we did together.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
I was a very demanding boss.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
If I recall, my memory was you were my favorite editor,
although Dave Katz will be very upset about that. But
Dave was a little bit more of a he was
a little more stringent than you.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Yeah, there you go. All right, Well, I think you'll
feel that today. There's not a lot of stringency on
the puzzler. But you did turn out to be a
great writer, not just about gadgets. But you've since written
two awesome books. And they are awesome. I mean I
love them. They are Barry Sonenfeld, Call Your Mother, and
more recently Best Possible Place, Worst Possible Time. And they
(03:09):
are hilarious, sometimes poignant, mostly hilarious but a little poignant.
And yeah, I can't recommend them highly enough, even though
I don't appear in them.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
But other than that, okay, third, you will appear in that.
How's that excellent?
Speaker 1 (03:25):
And the puzzle is about bizarro Hollywood, opposite Hollywood, So
all the answers are titles that are the exact opposite
of movies here on earth. So, for instance, if the
clue were the bizarro movie Women in White, the answer
would be men in Black. Not all of the answers
(03:47):
will be your movies, but they will all have actors
you've worked with. There are so many stories in the
book we'll never get to like five percent of them,
So you still have to buy the book, but Barry
might be nice enough to tell of some of the highlights.
All right, so are you ready, yes, sir, okay, Monday
morning hypothermia. Monday morning hypothermia.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
Right, So hypothermia. The opposite of that would be warm hot.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yes, but specifically yes, in bowl fever it would.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
So Monday morning is not the opposite of Saturday night exactly.
But I'm gonna go with and call me crazy here,
Saturday night fever.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
You would be correct. Yes, I know it's not tech like,
it's not Wednesday whatever, but I figured it's the most
fun time of the week allegedly is Saturday night. The
least fun Monday morning. So yes, Monday morning hypothermia is
Saturday night fever. Let me give you a couple of
more Travalta Flawed. This was a movie called Flawed with
(04:57):
g Jamie Lee Curtis, Jamie Lee Curtis in a oh
personally attired Yes, yeah, good, perfect is perfect, all right. Last,
John Travolta is high brow literature, hybrolow literature, the opposite.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Of that, oh, pulp fiction.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Pulp fiction exactly. Now, speaking of John Travolta, you writing
your book that John is a lovely lovely man, but
he did have a different working style from the other star,
Gene Hackman, his co star, So can you tell us
about that?
Speaker 3 (05:36):
John is lovely. I've never met an actor that loved
being a movie star more than John. But there's a
difference between being a movie star and being an actor.
Actors really should know their lines.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
John, he had a terrible time learning his lines, and
the first day of shooting, I stupidly decided since it
was just two guys sitting opposite each other, there's no blocking,
there's no you know, big tracking shots or having to
light for exteriors or worrying about the sun moving. It
(06:13):
was just two guys sitting opposite each other. So I
scheduled an eight page scene, which is an insane amount
of work. I will admit that. So it's the first
day of shooting. John said to Gene, Hey, Geene, what
did you do this weekend? And Jean said, with eight
freaking pages to learn, although he didn't use the word freaking,
(06:36):
I didn't do anything.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
But have you know, learn my dialogue?
Speaker 4 (06:41):
And John, God love him, said, that's a waste of
a weekend.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
So I knew I was in trouble.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
These two guys are sitting opposite each other rehearsing.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
G knows all of his lines. John is not only
reading from his grip, but not reading it well. He's
not coming in.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
And the thing about comedy is everyone should be stepping
on each other's lines. Everyone should be talking quickly. There
should be no space between one person's statement and another.
But you can't do that if the actors don't.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Know their lines. So we struggle through it. We do
a couple of takes.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Meanwhile, my wife, who is a producer on the show,
is back there. We have to reload the camera. We're
shooting on films, so she's a video village and I
go to whisper to her and I say, how great
is Hackman? And she says, oh, no, he's fantastic.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
I go back.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
We're reloaded. I say, okay, we're ready to go. Oh, Gene,
stand up one line sooner roll camera. We start to row.
Gene Hackman says, cut the camera. You don't know what
the fuck you're doing. You have no clue. You'll take
advice from anyone. Your wife tells you where I should
stand up, and you tell me this. So I say
(07:52):
to the first assistant director see if we're ready for lunch.
And the ad says, ready for lunch. We're just starting
to day. The cater wouldn't be ready for like a
minimum of three hours.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
So I say, break for lunch. So we break for lunch.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
I go up to Hackman and I say, and this
is why directing is sort of like being a parent
in many ways. I say to Hackman, Hey, Gene, I
just want you to know if you need to yell
at me for the next twelve weeks, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
It doesn't bother me at all.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
So go ahead and yell at me. And he says,
what are you talking about? I go, I know you're
not mad at me. I know you didn't think my
wife told me to tell you to stand up a
line earlier. You're furious at John for not knowing his lines,
but you can't yell at him because you've got to
deal with him for the next twelve weeks on screen.
(08:48):
But you're so enraged gott to yell at.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Someone, So yell at me. I don't care.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
And he says, all right, come to my camper. We'll
have lunch together. And that was the worst day of
my life, practically, sitting with Gene as he's telling me
all of his issues in life and how he wears
a hair shirt, and aj Jacobson tell the audience all
about hair shirts.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Well, they that was one of the craziest details from
your book. It's like what medieval monks wore to punish themselves.
It's super uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
You mean he literally wears a hairshirt metaphoric.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Metaphorically he wears a hairshirt.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Oh yeah, but it's yes, it's exactly you wear it.
It's made of like scratchy wool. I thought it was
the way that Brits used to punish people. Instead of
sending them to jail, they just made him wear hairshirts.
But I like yours better.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
But the best part is at the end. He was
cranky the whole shoot, and then at the end he
came up and said.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
He came up to me at the premiere and it
was probably the first movie he's ever seen himself in,
because he hates seeing himself in movies and he never
watches them. But he stayed at the premiere and watched
Get Shorty, and Jean took me aside and said, all right,
here's the thing.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
The movie's really good.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
And I said, well, thanks, Geene, he said, But here's
the thing. The whole time I thought I was working
with you, I didn't think you Barry had a clue.
And I said, oh, that's okay, Gane. He said, shut
up and let me finish. Sorry, Jeane, I just want
you to know that if I thought you knew what
you were doing, I could have been so much better. Oh,
(10:30):
I said, you were fine, Gane.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
You were fine.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Yeah, he was great. But the good lesson for all
you actors out there. Well, while we're on Gene Hackman,
let me give you a couple of his opposite movies.
Are you ready?
Speaker 3 (10:48):
It's gonna be tougher.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Yeah, mediocre woman, that's all one word. Mediocre woman, great man, Yeah,
something man. That's right, you got that. And my wife
Julie had had the saint. She went through all of
the synonyms for great until she came to this one.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Not a scarecrow. He plays the bad guy is the villa.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
In Oh Superman, Superman.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
That's a good one.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Yep. He was a great legs luthor. Actually, yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Mean he's the best.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
All right.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
This one is I'm gonna walk you through. I'll give
you a hint because it's a little tricky, the soft,
the soft. So think of the opposite of soft, but
think mattresses.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Firm.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
That's it, the firm, the firm, exactly. All right, Let's
move on to another actor in this movie. He was
in the movie the Bizarro movie. Senior is a Clue?
Is the opposite movie? Senior's the Bizarro movie. I'm not
(12:03):
telling you the actor because it'll oh, well again.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
It's not Danny DeVito and Schwarzenegger.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
And yes it is, it is, Ye, don't so Danny DeVito,
who I'll give you one more. He was in Junior
without one more. Danny de Vito was the piece of
the violets. Now that's p e a ce that that.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Yeah, yeah, that's an easy one. That's an easy one.
You're ready, ready, Okay, what are the roses exactly?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
And I have to are roses really the opposite of violets?
Speaker 1 (12:38):
That's a good question. I felt that they were opposite enough,
because roses are red, violets are blue. So that's a
big contrast. Greg's not sure he's buying it. Allow it,
I'll allow it.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
But regardless, roses a reddish, violets are bluish. If it
weren't for Christ, we'd all be jewish that.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
I did very good.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
I did not know that.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Yeah, saved by the poem. The poem.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Uh, well, you've been friends with Danny DeVito for many,
many years. He gave you a very nice compliment about
Blood Simple, which you were were the cinematographer for with
the Cohen Brothers.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
Yeah, Danny, Yeah, he told me that when he and
Rio went to see Blood Simple, she was very pregnant
and her water broke while watching Blood Simple and she
had to be rushed to the hospital to give birth
to one of their kids.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Yeah. So he Uh, and that's Rhea Perlman, his former wife.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
So that's right, former wife.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
So you helped, Yes, you helped Usher and his child.
All right, this person was not in get shorty, but
you did have a meeting with him to discuss it and.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Go on.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
All right, what's the question? What's the question?
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Hell can't go, Hell can't go.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Okay, I'm going to go with Heaven can't wait.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Heaven can wait, Hell cannot go. It is a little concerned.
I always thought it was Heaven can't wait either, but.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
Right, no, it's Kevin that makes more sense. Heavin can wait.
By the way, the reason. Danny wanted me to shoot
war the Roses, which looked great, but I couldn't shoot
it because I was about to shoot my last, second
to last movie for the Coen Brothers, which was Miller's Crossing.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Great movie. All right, well me let me just add
I did love your meeting with Warren Betty, so you
just gotta tell us about that quickly.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
So it took us, Danny, I read the book in paperback,
Get Shorty, written by m. R. Leonard, one of the
great writers and loveliest human beings, and we got the rights,
but it took us seven years, six years to get
that movie made. No one wanted to make a movie
that was inside Hollywood, and no one wants wanted to
(15:00):
make an Elmore leented movie because none of the movies
based on his books ever made money. And the reason
is none of the directors got his tone. They either
tried to be too funny or not funny enough. And
so we finally get MGM to agree to make the movie,
(15:23):
but they give us a list of movie stars that
they want in order to make the movie. So I
have to get on a plane to meet Dustin Hoffman.
I fly out there. We meeted some Brentwood diner. He
didn't want to do the part. He just wanted to
know if the person Shorty and Get Shorty was based
(15:45):
on him, and I said I don't know. He said, look,
I'm not going to do your movie. When an actres
says I'm not going to do your movie, that means
convince me.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
To do it instead.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
I said, okay, thanks, because he was wrong for it anyway.
So I left us, and a week later, Danny calls again, Barry,
you got to go back to La You got to
meet Warren.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Baby fly out there.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Warren is staying with his wife and kid at the
Hotel bel Air because he there was recently the north
Ridge earthquake, so his house was sort of destroyed, so
he's living at.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
The bell Air.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
So I check into the bell Air on a Thursday
evening and I call his room and it goes to
boysmail and and go.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Hi, Warren, it's Barry's sun and fed. We have a meeting.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
Call me back so we know what time tomorrow we
can meet. So that first night, Thursday night, no war,
all day, Friday, no warn, all day, Saturday, no warn,
but Saturday night still no warn.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
I haven't left the bel air.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
They're running out of New York strips and Velvetdere vodka
because that's all I'm eating and drinking. So Sunday morning,
I call Warren and say get the voicemail, and I say, look,
I've got a two o'clock plane, so I like to
get to the airport. So I like to get the
(17:13):
airport three or four hours early. I'm going to leave
at ten am. If you want to meet me, let's
meet really soon because I'm going to be leaving. And
by the way, if we don't get together, it was lovely.
I had a great time at the.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Hotel right the same bes stake.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Yeah, you know again. You got to figure out who
you're dealing with. So Warren calls me back immediately and
he goes, Barry, I'm so sorry, I've been so busy.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Okay, let's meet it too. So I go. I sit
there mister Baty's table. I'm waiting.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Around two twenty five, Warren shows up with his kid.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
So that's hard to deal with.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
And Warren says to me, you know what, Barry, I
loved your script and I will do the movie as
long as you can answer just one question. And I'm
in and I said, great, what's the question. He goes, well,
the main character, this Chili Palmer guy, he's like a
(18:18):
low level mob guy. He's like a numbers runner. I said, well, yeah,
that's true. But by the end of the movie he's
a big time producer, so he has this great arc.
He says, I understand that, but at the beginning Chili
is just a low level numbers runner. I go, I
guess you could say that, and he goes, well, I
(18:40):
look like Warren Baby. Why would someone who looks like
me be such a low level guy in the mob?
Speaker 3 (18:50):
So I said, you know, you're absolutely right. And here's
the thing.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
We have a plumber in East Hampton named John Ward.
This man is gorgeous, but he's a plumber. Sometimes it
just happens that good looking guys don't become like, you know,
like major actors or presidents or anything. And Warren said,
I totally understand that, but I look like Warren Baby.
(19:19):
So I sent ahead, you are absolutely right. I was
wrong to even consider you. Thank you so much for
your time. Please put your check on my tab at
my and I have to go to the airport. I
got to the airport like six hours early. Just to
get away from being at the bel air. And then,
(19:40):
of course what happens is as soon as you say
you're right, you're.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Wrong for it.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
Now he's constantly calling me because well maybe I'm wrong.
I said, no, no, no, you're right. Let's move on,
because you know, you get stuck with those things for
months and it never happens.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
That is so crazy. I love that story. I mean,
allegedly the song You're So Vain is about Warren Baty.
Maybe maybe not, but it seems that he does have
a bit of that personality trait that is hilarious. Right,
all right, So I'm gonna do extra credits about Dustin Hoffman,
(20:18):
a man that you mentioned you did meet with him.
You called him a power whisperer in your book, which
I love. All Right, I'm going to give four and
you could do the first two Barry and then the
last two for the for the folks at home. The
Dropout starring Dustin Hoffman is the drop the dropout in
(20:42):
something in No.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
No, actually, that's a Nazi opposite of the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
The opposite in this case of the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
If you go to college, you could be a dropout
or or you could be a freshman or.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
A senior who then gets through the scene.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Geez graduate. Thanks guys.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
How about birth of a customer, Birth of a customer,
death of salesman exactly, all right? And then for the
folks at home, shine woman, shine woman, sprint woman, and
noon farmer.
Speaker 4 (21:23):
And you're saying that a farmer is the opposite of
a cowboy if I'm not mistaken, exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
The farmer and the cowman can't be friends nicely.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
So that's three for the audience.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
That's right. You can cast me and shmake of Dune
three if you want, with my singing voice. All right, Well,
that was awesome, so thank you Barry for coming, and
folks at home, if you like the show, please check
out our Instagram feed at Hello Puzzlers, where we post
original puzzles and other fun stuff. And we'll meet you
here tomorrow for more puzzling puzzles. It will puzzle you puzzlingly.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
B
Hosts And Creators
Greg Pliska
A.J. Jacobs
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