April 22, 2025 • 20 mins
Hello, Puzzlers! Puzzling with us today: podcaster and author Gretchen Rubin!
Join host A.J. Jacobs and his guests as they puzzle–and laugh–their way through new spins on old favorites, like anagrams and palindromes, as well as quirky originals such as “Ask AI” and audio rebuses.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello puzzlers. Let's start with a quick puzzle. This one
is in honor of my father. It's about one of
his favorite facts. Ever, when I was writing my book
about the Bible, my father asked me why I thought
the number forty appears so often. The rain fell for
forty days and forty nights, the Hebrews wandered in the
wilderness for forty years. King David ruled for forty years,
(00:23):
So can sound lots of forties? So is there something
special about the number forty? The answer, or at least
my dad's favorite fact. After the break, Hello puzzlers, Welcome
back to the Puzzler the life changing challenge in your
(00:46):
puzzle College Essay, I'm your host, aj Jacobs. Before the break,
we asked why does the number forty appear so often
in the Bible? Rain fell for forty days, et cetera. Well,
one theory is based on my father's favorite fact, which
is that forty does not always mean exactly forty. In
the past, the word forty was just a synonym for
(01:08):
a big number. In the Oxford English Dictionary. The second
definition of forty is large indefinite number. And so my
father told me when the Bible says it rained for forty.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Days and nights.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
It might just be saying it rained for a long time,
a whole bunch of nights. Let's not get specific. Thank
you Dad for that lesson in etymology. Now I'm interested
to know whether my guest knows why I started with that.
That's a little puzzle, and the reason is it was
an excuse to talk about forty because my guest is
(01:42):
author of, among other books, forty Ways to Look at
Winston Churchill. In your case, it really was forty. We have,
Gretchen Rubin. Did you figure out where I was going
or was that just crazy talk?
Speaker 3 (01:55):
No?
Speaker 4 (01:55):
I did, ah, Yes, and I really appreciated it. Yes,
and I wrote about that that forty just me a lot.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Oh excellent. Yes, well, I loved that book. Gretchen has
written many other books since, including The Happiness Project, Life
in Five Senses, and a new book, Secrets of Adulthood,
which contains aphorisms and wisdom about how to negotiate life.
We're going to get to some of that wisdom in
a moment, but first a puzzle, and this puzzle. This
(02:24):
puzzle is based on your last name, Ruben or b
I n now your name, you probably have thought about.
It's an interesting one word playwise. First of all, it's
got like a phrase in the rub in because are
rub You can rub something in, but you split it
up another way and it has the word bin in it.
(02:46):
Bin like trash bin. So you add two letters in
front of bin and you get ruben. Now, there are
a lot of words with this property where you take
a little word, add two letters in the front, new
word like ill, ill you add st you get still,
or ash you get crash. So in this puzzle, I'm
(03:08):
gonna give you hints to pairs of words that have
this property, a small word and then a little bigger
word made by adding two letters to the front, And
I'm gonna walk.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
You through it.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Okay, hit me up with an examp another example.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
All right, well, let me hit you up with with
one with your name. So if it were bin and rubin,
the hint might be the author of the Happiness Project
cares about the environment. No one loves a recycling blank
more than Gretchen blank. So no one loves a recycling
bin more than Gretchen rube bin.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Oh, okay, okay, So the first the first blank is
the little word and the second blank is the little
word plus the new beginning.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Okay, exactly, okay, all right, all right, I think you're
you're up for I feel confident I'm going to go
back to the Bible for the first one. Remember that
part in the Bible when that great white chased Noah's boat,
the blank was almost attacked by a blank. So Noah's
(04:12):
boat is a arc. Yeah, and a great white is
ah exactly Okay, So the arc was almost attacked by
a shark. Okay, all right, all right, My young son
is terrified of being in a play, which is not surprising.
Most people his blank have blank fright.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
Okay, I think I got I got it. Most people
his age have stage fright exactly.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
By the way, not true, as we discussed last episode,
he was he's in. He doesn't have stage right.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Poetic license, yes, puzzling license whatever it's called. Uh this uh,
this player has not hit a home run for weeks.
But it's not the fault of the official. He shouldn't
blame the blank for his blank, so he shouldn't blame
(05:07):
the offish the baseball official, then, yes, for his he
hasn't hit a home run in weeks his slump exactly.
Speaker 5 (05:17):
Okay, nailed it.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
I was worried that we were in the context of baseball,
but fortunately I did not need to draw on any
baseball knowledge there.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Well, I know you are a new basketball fan.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
I am, Yes, that is so funny. How did that happen?
Speaker 5 (05:32):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (05:33):
My husband, uh like did a huge flirt with a
friend and got season tickets to the Knicks, which is
like a lifelong dream of his since he was young.
Speaker 5 (05:41):
He's a lifelong next fan.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
And I just decided I'd always been curious, like, can
you make yourself get interested in something? Can you just
decide to become interested in something? And I think it's
easier if you have somebody in your life who's already
interested that can kind of be your ambassador to something.
But it's so fun like you, at least I have
found that I absolutely can make myself interested.
Speaker 5 (06:05):
Now I'm like, I really have strong thoughts.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
About like whether they should revise the three point rule,
you know, to make them game more exciting or you know.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
How would they revise it? I don't even know.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
Well, now people are taking all these three point shots
because it's just easier, and so it's like, is it
making the game less exciting and so yeah, interesting, there's
just like some debate, so all right thoughts.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Well, I also I'm a big fan of the idea
that you can make yourself interested. And I think one
of the overlaps between our work is is we both
love curiosity.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
Yes, and an experiment.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
At an experiment, that's right, And puzzles are a lot
about curiosity. I mean, I have always a thought and
I will never do it of trying to write a
book about the most boring topic ever, something stereotypically boring
like accounting, and show how once you get into it,
it's actually quite fascinating.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
I think you should do that. I would absolutely read that.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
I would ask you reinsurance, you know, or something like that.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, reinsurance is better than a kid.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Yeah that's good. All right, Well, thank you, you're very kind.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I thank you. And and my mother.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
Okay, yeah that's two. There you go. You're off, you're off,
just strong start.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Sure, all right.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
My therapist loves ice skating. So I went to the
blank with my blank.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
I went to the rink with my shrink.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Exactly, exactly, all right, how about I want to be
buried in a casket? Made out of sturdy wood. So
make sure my coffin is blank when I eventually blank,
and it's three letters to start.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
Make sure that my coffin is oak when I eventually croak.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
That's it. That is it.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
And by the way, I'm I remember. I think that
you've written about Memento Mori's reminders of death? Have you
or did that make?
Speaker 4 (08:06):
I have?
Speaker 5 (08:06):
Yeah, good memory. It's been a while, but yes I have.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
And what's your take on them?
Speaker 5 (08:10):
I think they're very useful.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
I think something to remind you that life is short
is really really helps helps you remember not to take
anything for granted.
Speaker 5 (08:19):
And you know.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
I have.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
I am a big fan too.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
I have a little like in medieval paintings they have
skulls that I find those off puttings, so I have
I have a someone on the internet made a Hello
Kitty skull, so it's kind of cute but also reminds
you of death. Do you have any memento moriy that
you well?
Speaker 5 (08:40):
I go to the met every day.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
That's one of the things that I did as an
experiment for my book Life in Five Senses, and I
love going so much that I go all the time.
Speaker 5 (08:48):
I go every day, and there is a there are
Momento Moury. They're hanging on the wall.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
So and it's the skull and the hour glass and
the soap bubbles and the and the flowers and the
decaying fruit and everything. So I can go contemplate a
great masterpiece.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
So I do that. Yeah, but I don't. I don't have.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
I feel like having something around the house, like a
Hello Kitty skull would be that would be useful too.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Well, listen, feel free to adopt.
Speaker 5 (09:13):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Do you go to the same exhibits every day or
you mix it up?
Speaker 5 (09:16):
I mix it up. I just go wherever I feel
like that day.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Well that's a lovely, lovely ritual.
Speaker 5 (09:22):
Oh it's the greatest.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Yeah, all right, we.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Got a couple more. In the back of the boat,
there's a micro brewery. So go to the blank if
you want some blank beer. Go to the blank if
you want some blank beer?
Speaker 5 (09:38):
Is that aft?
Speaker 4 (09:39):
It is?
Speaker 5 (09:40):
Okay? Is go aft to get your draft?
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Well that's funny. That is what Julie, my wife said,
And I will accept it. I will absolutely accept okay.
Speaker 5 (09:51):
But there's another one. But there's an alternative.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Yes, it's something that you a word that has played
a large part in your life, especially before.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
For your craft exactly.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
Because it's appropriate. Yes, yes, that.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Which is a great name, because it's like a nice nown.
People love crafting and you craft books, right, and your
sister is still craft My sister.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
My sister has many names, Yes she has. She goes
by lyzithan Li, Lizz. She sometimes has the last name Peerau.
Sometimes she has the last name Craft. So she said
she's a she's a woman of many names. But yeah,
Elizabeth Craft is her is like her Hollywood name.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Gotcha?
Speaker 6 (10:35):
All right?
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Welle last one, You should see this movie on the
biggest screen possible because the ending is unbelievable. You need
to watch it in blank to fully appreciate the blank.
So its first is four letters. It's a little tricky
because it's I think it's oh yeah, got it wasn't tricky.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Okay, I think it's imax. But then what's the second
part of the sentence to.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Fully appreciate the ending or the blank the most exciting
moment climax climax? Okay, yes, so yes, you said that
very enthusiastically.
Speaker 5 (11:15):
Yes, I was thinking dmon no.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
New moon to Danie.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Yeah, yes, you need to watch it in imax to
fully appreciate the climax you did wonderfully.
Speaker 5 (11:27):
I'm astonished by myself.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Ah, my games now, because now I'm good at your games.
Speaker 5 (11:35):
I'm just bad at all the other games.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
No, this is your new basketball.
Speaker 6 (11:39):
This is it.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Well, I want to talk about, uh, your work a
little while we still have you. Your new book is
wonderful Secrets of Adulthood, lots of aphorisms that we discussed
last time.
Speaker 6 (11:59):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
One thing I did want to bring up about your
books is that you talk about reframing a lot. And
I am a huge fan. One of my favorite and
I've quoted you a few times, Gretchen, and my books
are just in conversation. One of my favorite things I
learned from your book. I think it was Life in
(12:22):
Five Senses. It was a story about a scientific experiment
where they took people and had them smell this sharp odor,
you remember this, And they told half the people it
was parmesan, and they told half the people it was vomit.
And the people who said it was who were told
(12:43):
it was parmesan, were like, Oh, that's a pleasant smell,
and the others were like, Oh that's gross. So such
a great metaphor for life in my opinion, Yes, same smell,
but framed differently. You can see life as parmesan as well.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Yes, it's often both.
Speaker 5 (13:02):
Right well, and it's kind of the same thing.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
I think of that with like lemon smell, because now,
like there's the beautiful, fresh, citrucy smell of lemon, but
now we often associate it with like really like the
heavy chemicals of cleaning fluid. And so now I feel
like those which one are you smelling? Like are you
smelling oh, this is like fresh squeeze lemon juice and
you're like, oh, this is delightful, or oh this is
(13:24):
you know, ah right, yeah, toilet boward cleaner.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Yeah, yeah uh.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
And by the way you used reframing in the Puzzles,
I feel that that is a very puzzly skill. Good
got to look at things from a different angle.
Speaker 5 (13:39):
That's true. I never thought of that. Now you've reframed reframing.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
There you go, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Well what the new book contains tons of wonderful aphorisms,
and I have a couple more that I want to
go deeper with you on. One is one of the
best uses of willpower is to avoid situations that require willpower.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
So tell me about that.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
Yes, Well, when scientists studied people who were highly conscientious,
they expected that they would be using tons and tons
of willpower, but they found that they didn't really use
much bullpower, and so they had a lot of reserves
of bullpower when they needed it because they just set
up situations so they didn't need to use willpower. So
this is the kind of person who, instead of trying
to resist eating potato chips, just doesn't buy potato chips.
Speaker 5 (14:29):
Or if they have a hard time, you.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
Know, buying healthy snacks from the vending machine, they're just like, okay.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
I'm just never going to shop from the vetting machine.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
I've heard of people who sleep in their gym clothes
so that they can like just roll out of bed
and go to the gym.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
They don't even need to, you know, make the effort
to get changed.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
So by finding ways to avoid needing little power, then
you don't have to use it at all.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
And I buy it one hundred percent. Setting up your
environment so you don't need And it's an age strategy,
of course, it's the Odysseus strategy.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Some people call it exactly.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
He tied himself to the mast so he wouldn't jump
in when when the sirens sang their sirens song.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
And I use it all the time. I want to
know how you use it.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Let me tell you one of mine, or well, first
I just use freedom software. There are a lot of
apps out there that cut you off from the Internet.
I was very disturbed because I figured out how to
get back on the internet freedom. But I willfully made
myself forget that. But it is unfortunate because I do
(15:36):
like having no choice. I can't go on the internet
otherwise that is a true siren song.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
How about you? What if you you don't sleep in
your gym clothes.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
Well, one thing is I have this insanely strong, sweet
tooth and it was just very hard to manage because
I was always like now later, more, two, three, you know,
I deserve it whatever, And so I just thought, well,
what if I just gave up sugar.
Speaker 5 (16:01):
What if I just stopped eating sugar altogether?
Speaker 4 (16:03):
And then I wouldn't have to decide and the fact
and I did that years ago now I don't know,
like twelve years ago. And what I found is like,
and I'm not saying this would work for everybody, because
it absolutely would not work for everybody, but for me,
it's just like it used to be really hard for
me to be around, Like if there was a plate
of cookies on a like a conference room table during
(16:24):
a meeting or something like.
Speaker 5 (16:25):
That, it would be really like on my mind. And
now I don't even notice it.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
You know, so you have not eaten sugar in twelve years,
So I mean I will have like it, like I
had a bite of my you know, my sister's wedding cake,
or like if somebody has a kind of interesting ice
cream flavor, I'll have a bite of it.
Speaker 5 (16:43):
But I don't like sit down and eat.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
I wouldn't like get a chocolate chip cookie out of
bakery and eat it, or I wouldn't eat.
Speaker 5 (16:51):
But I really like I I carry it pretty far,
like it's kind of a hobby.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
For me, So I don't eat things like flour or
rice or starchy vegetables. Pretty I take it pretty far,
which works for me. Again, I'm not saying this is
what is the healthier right choice for everybody else, but
for me, it's just incredibly freeing because I don't have
to I don't have to think about what kind of
choices that I make.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Sure yeah, Well, two things on that. First of all,
my strategy is no sugar on weekdays. Weekends is sugar time.
Of course, then I'm convinced myself EL Friday is essentially
a weekend.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
But you know, it's not flawless.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
But the other metapoint I want to make is you
said that this doesn't work for everyone, And I think
that's great because, to quote a great aphorism from Breton Rubin,
the bird, the bee and the bat all fly, but
they use different kinds of wings. So one tool may
(17:55):
work for some people, but it doesn't work for others.
And I think that is such great advice.
Speaker 5 (18:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
I mean, one thing that has really been striking to me,
just sort of as I've studied happiness and habits and
human nature is everybody sort of wants to know the
right way or the best way or the most efficient way,
and there just isn't a best way or right way
or most efficient way because we're all so different from
each other, and so what works really well for one
person just might not work for someone else, and vice versa.
(18:22):
And so I've become when I started, when I read
the Happiness Project, I was very confident in everything that
I suggested that people do.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
And now I'm sort of like.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
Well, you know, this is what works for me, or
maybe you want to try this because people just you know,
they're just wild.
Speaker 5 (18:37):
We're just wildly different from each other.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
That I think that is great to use another aphorism,
one man's spam is another man's important emails.
Speaker 5 (18:47):
Yes, one person, good callback, good call.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Back, Thank you well.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
It has been a joy having you on, Gretchen, And
congratulations on the new book, Secrets of Adulthood.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Which is out now.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Everyone check it out and check out You've got You've
got tons like, you've got podcasts, You've got website. Whe
where should people find more information about Gretchen Ruben.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Gretchenruben dot com is sort of the clearinghouse for everything, yep.
Speaker 5 (19:14):
And then Happier with Gretchen Rubin is the podcast.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Wonderful, So we were, of course happier to have you
on the show. Before we wrap up, as always, I
have an extra credit for the folks at home. The
plot is complicated. You need to blank the book carefully
or you will lose the blank. You need to blank
the book carefully or you will lose the blank. Thank you, Gretchen.
(19:40):
Thank you everyone for listening. If you have thirty seconds,
please go to your favorite podcast platform and give us
a little review or ranking or rating. It does make
a huge difference in helping people find us because our lives,
sadly are ruled by algorithm. So that's my play and well,
(20:03):
of course we'll see you here tomorrow for more puzzling
puzzles that will puzzle you puzzlingly.
Speaker 6 (20:13):
Hey, puzzlers, it's Greg Pliska here with the extra credit
answer from our previous show. AJ did some proverbs with
Gretchen Rubin where he updated classic proverbs and you have
to guess what the original form was. The extra credit
one he gave you is this, to air is human.
To have existentially threatening misaligned objectives is AI. Of course,
(20:36):
the original is to air is human, to forgive divine. Well,
here on the puzzler, we forgive your errors because you
are human and we love playing with you. So come
back and play with us some more next time.
Hello puzzlers. Let's start with a quick puzzle. This one
is in honor of my father. It's about one of
his favorite facts. Ever, when I was writing my book
about the Bible, my father asked me why I thought
the number forty appears so often. The rain fell for
forty days and forty nights, the Hebrews wandered in the
wilderness for forty years. King David ruled for forty years,
(00:23):
So can sound lots of forties? So is there something
special about the number forty? The answer, or at least
my dad's favorite fact. After the break, Hello puzzlers, Welcome
back to the Puzzler the life changing challenge in your
(00:46):
puzzle College Essay, I'm your host, aj Jacobs. Before the break,
we asked why does the number forty appear so often
in the Bible? Rain fell for forty days, et cetera. Well,
one theory is based on my father's favorite fact, which
is that forty does not always mean exactly forty. In
the past, the word forty was just a synonym for
(01:08):
a big number. In the Oxford English Dictionary. The second
definition of forty is large indefinite number. And so my
father told me when the Bible says it rained for forty.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Days and nights.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
It might just be saying it rained for a long time,
a whole bunch of nights. Let's not get specific. Thank
you Dad for that lesson in etymology. Now I'm interested
to know whether my guest knows why I started with that.
That's a little puzzle, and the reason is it was
an excuse to talk about forty because my guest is
(01:42):
author of, among other books, forty Ways to Look at
Winston Churchill. In your case, it really was forty. We have,
Gretchen Rubin. Did you figure out where I was going
or was that just crazy talk?
Speaker 3 (01:55):
No?
Speaker 4 (01:55):
I did, ah, Yes, and I really appreciated it. Yes,
and I wrote about that that forty just me a lot.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Oh excellent. Yes, well, I loved that book. Gretchen has
written many other books since, including The Happiness Project, Life
in Five Senses, and a new book, Secrets of Adulthood,
which contains aphorisms and wisdom about how to negotiate life.
We're going to get to some of that wisdom in
a moment, but first a puzzle, and this puzzle. This
(02:24):
puzzle is based on your last name, Ruben or b
I n now your name, you probably have thought about.
It's an interesting one word playwise. First of all, it's
got like a phrase in the rub in because are
rub You can rub something in, but you split it
up another way and it has the word bin in it.
(02:46):
Bin like trash bin. So you add two letters in
front of bin and you get ruben. Now, there are
a lot of words with this property where you take
a little word, add two letters in the front, new
word like ill, ill you add st you get still,
or ash you get crash. So in this puzzle, I'm
(03:08):
gonna give you hints to pairs of words that have
this property, a small word and then a little bigger
word made by adding two letters to the front, And
I'm gonna walk.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
You through it.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Okay, hit me up with an examp another example.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
All right, well, let me hit you up with with
one with your name. So if it were bin and rubin,
the hint might be the author of the Happiness Project
cares about the environment. No one loves a recycling blank
more than Gretchen blank. So no one loves a recycling
bin more than Gretchen rube bin.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Oh, okay, okay, So the first the first blank is
the little word and the second blank is the little
word plus the new beginning.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Okay, exactly, okay, all right, all right, I think you're
you're up for I feel confident I'm going to go
back to the Bible for the first one. Remember that
part in the Bible when that great white chased Noah's boat,
the blank was almost attacked by a blank. So Noah's
(04:12):
boat is a arc. Yeah, and a great white is
ah exactly Okay, So the arc was almost attacked by
a shark. Okay, all right, all right, My young son
is terrified of being in a play, which is not surprising.
Most people his blank have blank fright.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
Okay, I think I got I got it. Most people
his age have stage fright exactly.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
By the way, not true, as we discussed last episode,
he was he's in. He doesn't have stage right.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Poetic license, yes, puzzling license whatever it's called. Uh this uh,
this player has not hit a home run for weeks.
But it's not the fault of the official. He shouldn't
blame the blank for his blank, so he shouldn't blame
(05:07):
the offish the baseball official, then, yes, for his he
hasn't hit a home run in weeks his slump exactly.
Speaker 5 (05:17):
Okay, nailed it.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
I was worried that we were in the context of baseball,
but fortunately I did not need to draw on any
baseball knowledge there.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Well, I know you are a new basketball fan.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
I am, Yes, that is so funny. How did that happen?
Speaker 5 (05:32):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (05:33):
My husband, uh like did a huge flirt with a
friend and got season tickets to the Knicks, which is
like a lifelong dream of his since he was young.
Speaker 5 (05:41):
He's a lifelong next fan.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
And I just decided I'd always been curious, like, can
you make yourself get interested in something? Can you just
decide to become interested in something? And I think it's
easier if you have somebody in your life who's already
interested that can kind of be your ambassador to something.
But it's so fun like you, at least I have
found that I absolutely can make myself interested.
Speaker 5 (06:05):
Now I'm like, I really have strong thoughts.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
About like whether they should revise the three point rule,
you know, to make them game more exciting or you know.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
How would they revise it? I don't even know.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
Well, now people are taking all these three point shots
because it's just easier, and so it's like, is it
making the game less exciting and so yeah, interesting, there's
just like some debate, so all right thoughts.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Well, I also I'm a big fan of the idea
that you can make yourself interested. And I think one
of the overlaps between our work is is we both
love curiosity.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
Yes, and an experiment.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
At an experiment, that's right, And puzzles are a lot
about curiosity. I mean, I have always a thought and
I will never do it of trying to write a
book about the most boring topic ever, something stereotypically boring
like accounting, and show how once you get into it,
it's actually quite fascinating.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
I think you should do that. I would absolutely read that.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
I would ask you reinsurance, you know, or something like that.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, reinsurance is better than a kid.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Yeah that's good. All right, Well, thank you, you're very kind.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I thank you. And and my mother.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
Okay, yeah that's two. There you go. You're off, you're off,
just strong start.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Sure, all right.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
My therapist loves ice skating. So I went to the
blank with my blank.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
I went to the rink with my shrink.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Exactly, exactly, all right, how about I want to be
buried in a casket? Made out of sturdy wood. So
make sure my coffin is blank when I eventually blank,
and it's three letters to start.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
Make sure that my coffin is oak when I eventually croak.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
That's it. That is it.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
And by the way, I'm I remember. I think that
you've written about Memento Mori's reminders of death? Have you
or did that make?
Speaker 4 (08:06):
I have?
Speaker 5 (08:06):
Yeah, good memory. It's been a while, but yes I have.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
And what's your take on them?
Speaker 5 (08:10):
I think they're very useful.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
I think something to remind you that life is short
is really really helps helps you remember not to take
anything for granted.
Speaker 5 (08:19):
And you know.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
I have.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
I am a big fan too.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
I have a little like in medieval paintings they have
skulls that I find those off puttings, so I have
I have a someone on the internet made a Hello
Kitty skull, so it's kind of cute but also reminds
you of death. Do you have any memento moriy that
you well?
Speaker 5 (08:40):
I go to the met every day.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
That's one of the things that I did as an
experiment for my book Life in Five Senses, and I
love going so much that I go all the time.
Speaker 5 (08:48):
I go every day, and there is a there are
Momento Moury. They're hanging on the wall.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
So and it's the skull and the hour glass and
the soap bubbles and the and the flowers and the
decaying fruit and everything. So I can go contemplate a
great masterpiece.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
So I do that. Yeah, but I don't. I don't have.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
I feel like having something around the house, like a
Hello Kitty skull would be that would be useful too.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Well, listen, feel free to adopt.
Speaker 5 (09:13):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Do you go to the same exhibits every day or
you mix it up?
Speaker 5 (09:16):
I mix it up. I just go wherever I feel
like that day.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Well that's a lovely, lovely ritual.
Speaker 5 (09:22):
Oh it's the greatest.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Yeah, all right, we.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Got a couple more. In the back of the boat,
there's a micro brewery. So go to the blank if
you want some blank beer. Go to the blank if
you want some blank beer?
Speaker 5 (09:38):
Is that aft?
Speaker 4 (09:39):
It is?
Speaker 5 (09:40):
Okay? Is go aft to get your draft?
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Well that's funny. That is what Julie, my wife said,
And I will accept it. I will absolutely accept okay.
Speaker 5 (09:51):
But there's another one. But there's an alternative.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Yes, it's something that you a word that has played
a large part in your life, especially before.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
For your craft exactly.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
Because it's appropriate. Yes, yes, that.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Which is a great name, because it's like a nice nown.
People love crafting and you craft books, right, and your
sister is still craft My sister.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
My sister has many names, Yes she has. She goes
by lyzithan Li, Lizz. She sometimes has the last name Peerau.
Sometimes she has the last name Craft. So she said
she's a she's a woman of many names. But yeah,
Elizabeth Craft is her is like her Hollywood name.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Gotcha?
Speaker 6 (10:35):
All right?
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Welle last one, You should see this movie on the
biggest screen possible because the ending is unbelievable. You need
to watch it in blank to fully appreciate the blank.
So its first is four letters. It's a little tricky
because it's I think it's oh yeah, got it wasn't tricky.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Okay, I think it's imax. But then what's the second
part of the sentence to.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Fully appreciate the ending or the blank the most exciting
moment climax climax? Okay, yes, so yes, you said that
very enthusiastically.
Speaker 5 (11:15):
Yes, I was thinking dmon no.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
New moon to Danie.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Yeah, yes, you need to watch it in imax to
fully appreciate the climax you did wonderfully.
Speaker 5 (11:27):
I'm astonished by myself.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Ah, my games now, because now I'm good at your games.
Speaker 5 (11:35):
I'm just bad at all the other games.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
No, this is your new basketball.
Speaker 6 (11:39):
This is it.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Well, I want to talk about, uh, your work a
little while we still have you. Your new book is
wonderful Secrets of Adulthood, lots of aphorisms that we discussed
last time.
Speaker 6 (11:59):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
One thing I did want to bring up about your
books is that you talk about reframing a lot. And
I am a huge fan. One of my favorite and
I've quoted you a few times, Gretchen, and my books
are just in conversation. One of my favorite things I
learned from your book. I think it was Life in
(12:22):
Five Senses. It was a story about a scientific experiment
where they took people and had them smell this sharp odor,
you remember this, And they told half the people it
was parmesan, and they told half the people it was vomit.
And the people who said it was who were told
(12:43):
it was parmesan, were like, Oh, that's a pleasant smell,
and the others were like, Oh that's gross. So such
a great metaphor for life in my opinion, Yes, same smell,
but framed differently. You can see life as parmesan as well.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Yes, it's often both.
Speaker 5 (13:02):
Right well, and it's kind of the same thing.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
I think of that with like lemon smell, because now,
like there's the beautiful, fresh, citrucy smell of lemon, but
now we often associate it with like really like the
heavy chemicals of cleaning fluid. And so now I feel
like those which one are you smelling? Like are you
smelling oh, this is like fresh squeeze lemon juice and
you're like, oh, this is delightful, or oh this is
(13:24):
you know, ah right, yeah, toilet boward cleaner.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Yeah, yeah uh.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
And by the way you used reframing in the Puzzles,
I feel that that is a very puzzly skill. Good
got to look at things from a different angle.
Speaker 5 (13:39):
That's true. I never thought of that. Now you've reframed reframing.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
There you go, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Well what the new book contains tons of wonderful aphorisms,
and I have a couple more that I want to
go deeper with you on. One is one of the
best uses of willpower is to avoid situations that require willpower.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
So tell me about that.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
Yes, Well, when scientists studied people who were highly conscientious,
they expected that they would be using tons and tons
of willpower, but they found that they didn't really use
much bullpower, and so they had a lot of reserves
of bullpower when they needed it because they just set
up situations so they didn't need to use willpower. So
this is the kind of person who, instead of trying
to resist eating potato chips, just doesn't buy potato chips.
Speaker 5 (14:29):
Or if they have a hard time, you.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
Know, buying healthy snacks from the vending machine, they're just like, okay.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
I'm just never going to shop from the vetting machine.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
I've heard of people who sleep in their gym clothes
so that they can like just roll out of bed
and go to the gym.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
They don't even need to, you know, make the effort
to get changed.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
So by finding ways to avoid needing little power, then
you don't have to use it at all.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
And I buy it one hundred percent. Setting up your
environment so you don't need And it's an age strategy,
of course, it's the Odysseus strategy.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Some people call it exactly.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
He tied himself to the mast so he wouldn't jump
in when when the sirens sang their sirens song.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
And I use it all the time. I want to
know how you use it.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Let me tell you one of mine, or well, first
I just use freedom software. There are a lot of
apps out there that cut you off from the Internet.
I was very disturbed because I figured out how to
get back on the internet freedom. But I willfully made
myself forget that. But it is unfortunate because I do
(15:36):
like having no choice. I can't go on the internet
otherwise that is a true siren song.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
How about you? What if you you don't sleep in
your gym clothes.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
Well, one thing is I have this insanely strong, sweet
tooth and it was just very hard to manage because
I was always like now later, more, two, three, you know,
I deserve it whatever, And so I just thought, well,
what if I just gave up sugar.
Speaker 5 (16:01):
What if I just stopped eating sugar altogether?
Speaker 4 (16:03):
And then I wouldn't have to decide and the fact
and I did that years ago now I don't know,
like twelve years ago. And what I found is like,
and I'm not saying this would work for everybody, because
it absolutely would not work for everybody, but for me,
it's just like it used to be really hard for
me to be around, Like if there was a plate
of cookies on a like a conference room table during
(16:24):
a meeting or something like.
Speaker 5 (16:25):
That, it would be really like on my mind. And
now I don't even notice it.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
You know, so you have not eaten sugar in twelve years,
So I mean I will have like it, like I
had a bite of my you know, my sister's wedding cake,
or like if somebody has a kind of interesting ice
cream flavor, I'll have a bite of it.
Speaker 5 (16:43):
But I don't like sit down and eat.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
I wouldn't like get a chocolate chip cookie out of
bakery and eat it, or I wouldn't eat.
Speaker 5 (16:51):
But I really like I I carry it pretty far,
like it's kind of a hobby.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
For me, So I don't eat things like flour or
rice or starchy vegetables. Pretty I take it pretty far,
which works for me. Again, I'm not saying this is
what is the healthier right choice for everybody else, but
for me, it's just incredibly freeing because I don't have
to I don't have to think about what kind of
choices that I make.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Sure yeah, Well, two things on that. First of all,
my strategy is no sugar on weekdays. Weekends is sugar time.
Of course, then I'm convinced myself EL Friday is essentially
a weekend.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
But you know, it's not flawless.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
But the other metapoint I want to make is you
said that this doesn't work for everyone, And I think
that's great because, to quote a great aphorism from Breton Rubin,
the bird, the bee and the bat all fly, but
they use different kinds of wings. So one tool may
(17:55):
work for some people, but it doesn't work for others.
And I think that is such great advice.
Speaker 5 (18:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
I mean, one thing that has really been striking to me,
just sort of as I've studied happiness and habits and
human nature is everybody sort of wants to know the
right way or the best way or the most efficient way,
and there just isn't a best way or right way
or most efficient way because we're all so different from
each other, and so what works really well for one
person just might not work for someone else, and vice versa.
(18:22):
And so I've become when I started, when I read
the Happiness Project, I was very confident in everything that
I suggested that people do.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
And now I'm sort of like.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
Well, you know, this is what works for me, or
maybe you want to try this because people just you know,
they're just wild.
Speaker 5 (18:37):
We're just wildly different from each other.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
That I think that is great to use another aphorism,
one man's spam is another man's important emails.
Speaker 5 (18:47):
Yes, one person, good callback, good call.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Back, Thank you well.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
It has been a joy having you on, Gretchen, And
congratulations on the new book, Secrets of Adulthood.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Which is out now.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Everyone check it out and check out You've got You've
got tons like, you've got podcasts, You've got website. Whe
where should people find more information about Gretchen Ruben.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Gretchenruben dot com is sort of the clearinghouse for everything, yep.
Speaker 5 (19:14):
And then Happier with Gretchen Rubin is the podcast.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Wonderful, So we were, of course happier to have you
on the show. Before we wrap up, as always, I
have an extra credit for the folks at home. The
plot is complicated. You need to blank the book carefully
or you will lose the blank. You need to blank
the book carefully or you will lose the blank. Thank you, Gretchen.
(19:40):
Thank you everyone for listening. If you have thirty seconds,
please go to your favorite podcast platform and give us
a little review or ranking or rating. It does make
a huge difference in helping people find us because our lives,
sadly are ruled by algorithm. So that's my play and well,
(20:03):
of course we'll see you here tomorrow for more puzzling
puzzles that will puzzle you puzzlingly.
Speaker 6 (20:13):
Hey, puzzlers, it's Greg Pliska here with the extra credit
answer from our previous show. AJ did some proverbs with
Gretchen Rubin where he updated classic proverbs and you have
to guess what the original form was. The extra credit
one he gave you is this, to air is human.
To have existentially threatening misaligned objectives is AI. Of course,
(20:36):
the original is to air is human, to forgive divine. Well,
here on the puzzler, we forgive your errors because you
are human and we love playing with you. So come
back and play with us some more next time.
Hosts And Creators
Greg Pliska
A.J. Jacobs
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