December 24, 2025 • 30 mins
Part 1 - a conversation with Marc Morial—President of the National Urban League
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Broadcasting from the Civic Cipher Studios. Welcome to the QR Code,
where we share perspective, seek understanding, and shape outcomes. I
go by the name Rams's Job. Big shoutout to q
Ward and big shoutout to our upcoming guest, Mark Morial.
We have a lot to talk about today, not the
least of which is Mark Moreal himself. We're going to
(00:21):
be spending the bulk of the show interviewing with the
president of the National Urban League, and we are honored
to share time and space with him once again. Well
in this case time more than space, but in any event,
it's always a pleasure to have him on and get
his thoughts on the state of the world. We want
you to stay tuned because a little later on the show,
(00:42):
we're going to discuss the seven black women running for
Senate seats in the midterms. Q Ward is going to
talk to us again about Maga in Blackface for folks
that might have missed the conversations that we've been having
toward that end, and we are going to end the
(01:03):
show with a spirit of gratitude. My hope is that
we can discuss what Christmas was like for enslaved people
not only so that we can learn where we've come from,
but so that we can be grateful that regardless of
the erosion that we've experienced in this country politically over
(01:26):
the past you know, several months, let's call it a year,
that we still have come pretty far as a country.
And again, I don't want us to lose sight of
all the games that we have made, and so I
definitely want to spend some time talking about that before
we let you go for the holidays. But right now
(01:48):
is around the time we start talking about a feel
good feature, and today's feel good feature is going to
be a little bit more personal than you know, maybe
some of the others that we've shared. But today's feel
good feature, believe or not, I'm gonna share from Wikipedia.
I apologize, but this is more of a personal story
(02:08):
and it'll make sense in a second. So for folks
that don't know, there is a singing group called Sweet
Honey in the Rock. And if you don't know about
Sweet Honeting in the Rock, that's okay. I didn't know
about Sweet honeying in the Rock either, but I learned,
and I learned well. Thanks to Paul and Lydia Moore,
some new friends of mine that invited me and another
friend of mine out to go check out Sweet Honey
(02:29):
in the Rock. So I want to tell you a
little bit about them and what I experienced. So for
those who don't know, Sweet Honey in the Rock are
an all female African American a cappella ensemble that started
in nineteen seventy three. They are a three time Grammy
Award nominated troupe who expressed their history as black women
through song, dance, and sign language. Originally a four person
(02:50):
ensembleed the group has expanded to five part harmonies with
a six member acting as a sign language interpreter. Although
the members have changed over five decades, the group continues
to sing and perform worldwide. The short of it is
that if you have a chance to see Sweet Honey
in the Rock, I recommend that you do it. Longtime
listeners will know that I've been to countless concerts. You know,
(03:15):
when you work in radio, you get concert tickets, and
you know I have a hip hop background, so I've
been to all the biggest hip hop concerts. I've worked for,
you know, all rock stations, So I've been to the
biggest rock concerts. This was the best concert that I
had been to. It was the best one. I have
no problem saying it. I'll probably say it for the
rest of my life. It was emotional and it was beautiful.
(03:35):
And to see these women on stage, and these weren't
young dancing women. These were women that they look like
queens and princesses, and they had stories that were full
of life and full of energy, and it was emotional.
It was beautiful, and I just needed to share that
with you again, sweet honey in the rock. If they're
(03:55):
on their way to you, please make it a point
to check them out. And now't's get into this conversation
with Mark Moreal. Mark Moreal is President and CEO of
the National Urban League, the nation's largest historic civil rights
and urban advocacy organization. As Mayor of New Orleans from
nineteen ninety four to two thousand and two, Moreal led
New Orleans Renaissance and left office with a seventy percent
(04:17):
approval rating. A graduate of the University of Pennsylvania with
a degree in economics and African American studies, he also
holds a law degree from the Georgetown University. All right,
mister Morreal, welcome back to the show Man. We haven't
seen you since being on the ground in DC at
the Congressional Black Caucus. Man, So what have you been
(04:38):
up to?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Since this's do too long? We can't go this long.
I know, up and connecting and have a good conversation.
But hey, thank you for having me. Always appreciate it then,
always eager to engage with the community.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Oh, we appreciate it now, you know, we just talked
about it a bit. We're on in some new cities.
We've had a lot of gross since you've last been on.
So for folks that are just coming to the conversation,
just becoming familiar with your work nationally, do us a favor,
just a little bit.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
I want everyone to know.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
I'm proud to lead the National Urban League, a one
hundred and fifteen year old national historic, civil rights and
urban advocacy ORBAN station. We're headquartered in New York City
in Harlem on one hundred and twenty fifth Street at
the Urban League Empowerment Center. But we have a network
of ninety three Urban League affiliates, maybe in your hometown,
(05:35):
across the nation, through which we serve three hundred communities
in thirty six states. So we are an advocate for
civil rights and economic opportunity. And we are a direct
program provider after school, home buyer education, job training, small
business assistance, health equity.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
We do that work in local communities.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
And I'm proud now to be serving in my second
decade as president of the National Urban League. But I'm
a bit of a recovering politician, having served in the
Louisiana Legislature and served eight years as mayor.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Of the great City of New Orleans, my beloved hometown.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
So you know, I bring, I think to this conversation
years of involvement, years of experience, but also a real
sense of where we are vis a vis the future.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Fantastic.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
So obviously this time of year, we're taking inventory of
where we are, where we've been, where we're going. So,
being in your position and at the helm of one
of the great civil rights organizations in this country, what
would you say is maybe one of the biggest lessons
(06:49):
that we've learned in twenty twenty five that will fortify
us moving forward.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
We better understand that who wins the elections matters, and
making excuses about not voting is committing suicide, you know,
refusing to vote, making excuses about voting is suicide because
this country respects political power and economic power open and shot,
(07:23):
and we need to always think about how to maximize
our political power. And that is not to necessarily have
to I don't vote because I'm in love with anybody.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
That's not my condition.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
I vote because my agenda aligns with them mostly.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
May not adjoint completely.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
And the agenda aligned with mostly may be in opposition
to an agenda that doesn't align with me at all
or very little. Sure, we got to be intelligent voters.
We need to understand that all of what we see
the doage cuts, the layoffs of black women, the attacks
(08:06):
on diversity, equity and inclusion, the militarization of American cities,
stems from the outcome of the election, and so we
gotta centralize that lesson. It was good that in the
fall of twenty four we had high turnout in Virginia,
high turnout in New Jersey, and the highest turnout in
(08:30):
a mayor's race in New York City since nineteen sixty nine.
Those are good signs if we can sustain and increase
that across the nation. So I'm the first one to say, Hey,
voting is not an elixir, not a panacea, not a
magic wand not a super powerful pill. But it is
(08:53):
a lever of power that we have and it has
to be individuals.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Aligned together collectively to make impact.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
So I say we should learn that we should also
learn that in twenty twenty five. I've been very clear
from the very beginning that the National Urban League and
other civil rights organizations, we will continue to stand against
policies that hurt America, while always demonstrating a willingness to
(09:22):
work with anyone that wants to benefit our community. And
so I've been somewhat Not only have we seen the
federal administration take steps that are damaging, we've also seen
many many corporations that rely heavily on African American consumers
step off, step away, step to the side when it
(09:45):
comes to a commitment of fairness and a commitment of
equal opportunity. That's what DNI is. It's a synonym D
and I is fairness and equal opportunity. Let's understand what
it is. And they've sought to smell and smear the
term in enough to make people fearful that diversity equity
(10:07):
inclusion is a preference program for black people and women.
It is not it is not, and we've got to
continue to stand up for a balanced, fair playing field
when it comes to jobs, contracts, home ownership, and opportunity.
This is where we are in America today. It's been
a state of emergency, but our community is strong. We're resilient,
(10:29):
we have resources. I was just in Biloxi, Mississippi, with
hundreds of African American legislators, and I found the energy
and the commitment strong. We got to build it, we
got to sustain it. We have to push back, and
we have to offer an alternative vision.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
I love that well, just to make that live a
little bit more. It's funny because Q and I were
having a conversation recently where we talked about doctor Umar
Johnson saying something effectually what he communicated this was been
back in twenty twenty four, was that black people should
not vote for the Democrat Kamala Harris until we get something,
(11:07):
which in Q's estimation was sort of putting the cart
before the horse. And I think that your words, in
terms of the reflection on the lessons that we learned
in twenty twenty five, really help make that stand out,
because the truth is that there were a lot of
people who were dissenting.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
People understand that sentiment, but it's political suicide, right right
withhold your vote?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
What did that get us?
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Exactly what he was saying?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yeah, on man, that's like saying, I'm not going to
breathe the air until it's clean, but he promised me
their airs clean, then I'll breathe it.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
That's what it's like.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah, you know, respect the sentiment, but I'm not going
to participate in political suicide.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yes, well, I'm glad that that's a lesson that we've
learned because that means that, you know, it wasn't a
total loss. But in that same vein, I want to ask,
you know, and I think I spec I got an
idea of what your answer might be, But what do
you think that we should collectively be looking forward to
in twenty twenty six?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
So for twenty twenty six, I think it's a year
when we have to sharpen what our agenda for America
is and for the national urbanly, it revolves around.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
What we call the D three imperative.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Okay, defend democracy, which is a defense and a promotion
of voting rights and civic participation and all of the
principles of democracy.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Not because democracy is perfect, but.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Because it's better than autocracy, sure better than a monarchy.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Number two, we have to demand diversity. By demanding diversity,
we're demanding equal participation in the economics of this country.
We've never had it, but we got to continue to
fight for it. And the third is defeat poverty. Why
does the richest nation on our thirty trillion in GDP
(13:03):
still tolerate Americans that can't pay their bills? Don't we
have the wherewithal? Don't we have the smarts?
Speaker 2 (13:11):
And what we've done is we've created a gilded class
of billionaires, about a million of them right, no, no, no,
about a thousand of them. And too many Americans, even
those that thought of themselves as being middle class or
working class, are being left behind. They work on jobs,
they work two jobs. Rents too high, mortgage is too high.
(13:36):
Taking care of parents, so many people are taking care
of parents, right, they may be taking parents and children simultaneously,
so economically, there were more middle class Americans in nineteen
seventy than there are today. The things are relative. You know,
in nineteen seventy you could be middle class. You didn't
(13:57):
have three devices. You know, you you live by the
standard of the times, and so I think it's unacceptable.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
I mean, Congress just passed one big ugly bill.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
It gave massive benefits to wealthy people.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
And now when you score it fiscally, the person.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Making fifty thousand dollars a year is going to be
paid seven hundred dollars more taxes a year. The billionaire
got a cut, the multimillionaire got a cut, major companies
got cuts. Why do politicians even embrace policies that put pain.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
On working, middle and poor Americans.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Well, you know, the point that you made about our
economic vitality in the seventies is something that I was
studying recently, because between the fifties and the seventies, that
was the only time time in history, it was in
this country too, the only time in history where a
person could work a normal job and become rich based
(15:09):
on simply their labor alone. And it hasn't been It
wasn't that way before, it hasn't been that way since.
And it is philosophies like trickle down economics from the
Reagan administration. And then we see that again in the
big ugly Bill, where these tax benefits go to the
wealthiest faction of the country with the expectation that they're
(15:30):
going to create jobs or drive innovation, and seldom does
that innovation or work jobs, et cetera trickle down to
the working class in a way that's meaningful. And this
is why we see us lagging behind the wealthiest group
of individuals in this country who are concentrating and hoarding
(15:51):
the wealth. I think it's forty percent of all the
wealth generated in last year of this country went to
just a handful of billionaires and the rest of us
are left to deal with the rest of the economy,
which is really crazy.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
When you think about one thousand billionaires in America, there
you go, Okay, this is a very small group of people.
It wouldn't fill Madison Square Garden, you know, it wouldn't.
It wouldn't fill the law an average high school in America.
I think it's eight hundred and thirteen fourteen fifteen building this. Look,
(16:26):
I'm not bashing a billionaire, but I am bashing systems, programs,
and policies which allows such an enormous creation of wealth
without a progressive tax code that compels them to put
back into the country that helped make them rich and great.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Sure, you don't get there by yourself. You don't become
rich on your own. You know.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
The taxpayers have built a first class interstate highway system
so e commerce trucks can traverse right. The taxpayers have
supported the building of a healthcare system, imperfect as it will,
which has allowed people to live much longer lives. The
(17:16):
taxpayers fund a civil aviation system, in part that creates
an opportunity for people to fly in commercial jets and
private planes to get from city to city in less
than a few hours. The taxpayers have funded a public
education system, albeit not perfect, and in many respects investments
(17:39):
in college education that helped produce a highly talented class
of people.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
We got to.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Understand that the taxpayers' investments enable.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
The creation.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Of wealth in America and continue this rhetoric that every
public school is a failure. Know that the that's the
healthcare system is an abject failure. It doesn't work for
people who don't have any money. And many, many schools
(18:14):
in suburban and rural America work very well and produced
a lot of presidential scholars.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
May not work well.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
In urban communities, in under resource communities, but we got
to understand you don't get to that enormity of wealth
without help from others.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
You know, look Musk, people talk about Musk. Musk is
a government contractor.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
You know, he has been chosen to commercialize technologies that
were created with government research. See what we don't have
going on in the public square enough to day is
truth telling, fact telling. You know, I'm saying this not
the bad, but to take some of these guys off
(19:04):
their thrones, some of these guys on it.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
I'm so brilliant. I'm the smartest guy in the world. Man.
Anybody that says that, I question their judgment, and rightfully so.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
I feel like this is a good sort of segue
into asking your thoughts about the election of Mom Donnie
in New York and really democratic socialism in general, because
it's kind of at a point where people are investigating
(19:44):
and I would imagine seeing it. I think I mentioned that.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
The democratic socialism.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
To be honest, I'm not clear what it always means
in terms of policy beyond a brand. Right, But let
me say this, Zorai Mandami ran a brilliant campaign, And
let me tell you why he ran a brilliant campaign.
He did something that Barack Obama did on the left
(20:12):
center left. What Donald Trump did on the center right,
and what all of my campaigns were mad or were
predicated on, and that is to expand the electorate, to
go after people who historically don't vote. And in my
Dommi's case, he did that in the primary and got
a voter pool where thirty percent of the voters were
(20:34):
first time voters. So what he did was able to
enthuse and stimulate a set of voters that historically.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Have not voted.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Now, to his credit, mister Trump did that on the right.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
He got rural voters. He got rural conservative leaning voters
to turn out in higher numbers in twenty sixteen, twenty
twenty four. So, Madami, I think, you know, I think
what I say about him is this great hope, a
lot of enthusiasm in many many places, some concerns and
(21:13):
fears in other places.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Let me tell how mayors are judge. Mayors are judged
by results, you know. Mayors are not judged by ideas.
Legislators sometimes are judge by ideas. Executives are judge by results.
So for my Dami, the question is a year from now,
twenty four months from now, how will the City of
New York be performing on his watch, but I think
(21:37):
he surprised some people. I've had an opportunity to have
several conversations with him, and I find him to be
quite thoughtful. I find him to be I think, committed
to his philosophy. But I think he's got a pragmatic
side to him. And I think that's important for a mayor, right.
A mayor has to have a pragmatic side, because you
(21:58):
get you're going to be judging whether you get things done,
not because you can flow big ideas the weather, you
can take those ideas and shape them and execute them.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
I love that. Yeah, I've been kind of peeking behind
the curtain there, just following those campaigns as they were
coming together, and I know that that you're absolutely right
that not only was it true of Mom Donnie, but
you're right about Donald Trump as well and Barack Obama
(22:31):
taking these non traditional avenues to get to voters that
feel like they've been disenfranchised, whether they be first time
voters or historically Democratic or Republican voters, and they feel
left behind by their party. And so all three of
these names have been able to galvanize these different groups.
And so my hope is because we covered a story
(22:54):
where there are seven black women running for Senate seats
in twenty twenty six. And hope is that these things
are well learned by politicians that we want to see,
you know, shape the future, especially after having what many
of us consider to be a political more than the
political setback with the re election of Donald Trump, those
(23:16):
of us that espouse more progressive agenda. Now, speaking of Trump,
I know Q wanted to drop a few bars about
black celebrities in the MAGA movement because they borrow from
our struggle only to betray us in the end. Q.
Speaker 5 (23:32):
Black celebrities, black billionaires, black multimillionaires, black taste makers, black
culture creators who came from these communities anchored and struggle,
suddenly standing arm in arm with MAGA, a movement that
(23:55):
has repeatedly championed policies, rhetoric, violence, and systems that specifically
harm Black people, suddenly telling the rest of us stop complaining,
stop playing the victim, just work harder. Both sides are
(24:20):
the same, that's my favorite. Meanwhile, they're smiling next to
people who have openly legislated against our humanity. And this
is not a coincidence, this is design. MAGA doesn't use
politics to convert or recruit. It's something that happens psychologically.
(24:47):
Maga has learned something powerful. If you want political loyalty
from black celebrity, don't even talk about policy. Start with
their pain. Start with you've been misunderstood. They try to
silence you. You're too powerful. That's why they attack you.
(25:13):
You're brave for standing alone. You're not a follower, you're
not a sheep. You're an independent thinker. They very subtly
and sometimes aggressively lean into ego, resentment, isolation, even insecurity,
(25:36):
and the universal human desire to feel seen and understood.
They speak to the wound and not to the mind.
Because once you can win someone over emotionally, well, their
politics follow. Once the ego is flattered, here comes the poison.
(26:00):
You didn't succeed because of opportunity. You succeed it because
you're better. You didn't make it because the community supported you.
You made it because you were above them. You don't
need that ladder anymore, so why not kick it down.
They turned their success into superiority. They turned privilege into
(26:25):
proof of exceptionalism. They turned distance from struggle into identity elevation.
And once someone believes that we collectively watch as their
empathy shrinks, community feels optional, solidarity with anyone feels beneath them,
(26:50):
And then MAGA looks at each other and smiles. Mission accomplished.
They rebrand that betrayal as courage. You're brave for thinking different.
You're such a strong freethinker. You're standing up against the mob.
(27:11):
You're not like other black people. Notice the language. They
don't say you are one of us, They just say
you're not one of them. Psychological warfare rewriting what it
means to belong. It relocates identity. It isolates them from us,
(27:36):
while giving them applause as a substitute for connection. They
offer something dangerous to rams protection the mainstream world. Like us,
we demand accountability that makes people feel attacked. Sometimes mac
(27:58):
is no such thing. They celebrate recklessness, They defend misinformation,
They protect ego. They don't even bother to question morality anymore.
Will never turn on you, they say, will protect you
(28:19):
and stand by you no matter what you say, no
matter what you do. You're safe with us. But blind
loyalty is not love, and with MAGA, it's more like
a lease than any sense of ownership, and the payment
political allegiance. MAGA does not chase black celebrities because they
support black advancement. They chase them because they need the
(28:43):
cultural credibility that comes with it, confusion inside black communities,
division where unity once existed, proof that they aren't racists. See,
we got one shit with us. See, so racism must
not be real.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Right.
Speaker 5 (29:04):
They don't want black voices, they want black shields. This
is the playbook. Validate pain, inflate ego, promise protection, provides spotlight,
separate from community, and then hand them a microphone to
punch down at their own people. So let's call it
(29:26):
what it is. It is not independent thinking, it's not bravery,
it's not enlightenment. This is a co op ego manipulation,
exploitation of trauma and using black pain as a recruitment tool,
convincing people who made it up the ladder to pull
it up behind them and then call it strength. MAGA
(29:48):
doesn't love these celebrities, Ramses. They just love what these
celebrities can do for them. And when they're done, as
we see, they will drop them just as fast as
they embrace them.
Broadcasting from the Civic Cipher Studios. Welcome to the QR Code,
where we share perspective, seek understanding, and shape outcomes. I
go by the name Rams's Job. Big shoutout to q
Ward and big shoutout to our upcoming guest, Mark Morial.
We have a lot to talk about today, not the
least of which is Mark Moreal himself. We're going to
(00:21):
be spending the bulk of the show interviewing with the
president of the National Urban League, and we are honored
to share time and space with him once again. Well
in this case time more than space, but in any event,
it's always a pleasure to have him on and get
his thoughts on the state of the world. We want
you to stay tuned because a little later on the show,
(00:42):
we're going to discuss the seven black women running for
Senate seats in the midterms. Q Ward is going to
talk to us again about Maga in Blackface for folks
that might have missed the conversations that we've been having
toward that end, and we are going to end the
(01:03):
show with a spirit of gratitude. My hope is that
we can discuss what Christmas was like for enslaved people
not only so that we can learn where we've come from,
but so that we can be grateful that regardless of
the erosion that we've experienced in this country politically over
(01:26):
the past you know, several months, let's call it a year,
that we still have come pretty far as a country.
And again, I don't want us to lose sight of
all the games that we have made, and so I
definitely want to spend some time talking about that before
we let you go for the holidays. But right now
(01:48):
is around the time we start talking about a feel
good feature, and today's feel good feature is going to
be a little bit more personal than you know, maybe
some of the others that we've shared. But today's feel
good feature, believe or not, I'm gonna share from Wikipedia.
I apologize, but this is more of a personal story
(02:08):
and it'll make sense in a second. So for folks
that don't know, there is a singing group called Sweet
Honey in the Rock. And if you don't know about
Sweet Honeting in the Rock, that's okay. I didn't know
about Sweet honeying in the Rock either, but I learned,
and I learned well. Thanks to Paul and Lydia Moore,
some new friends of mine that invited me and another
friend of mine out to go check out Sweet Honey
(02:29):
in the Rock. So I want to tell you a
little bit about them and what I experienced. So for
those who don't know, Sweet Honey in the Rock are
an all female African American a cappella ensemble that started
in nineteen seventy three. They are a three time Grammy
Award nominated troupe who expressed their history as black women
through song, dance, and sign language. Originally a four person
(02:50):
ensembleed the group has expanded to five part harmonies with
a six member acting as a sign language interpreter. Although
the members have changed over five decades, the group continues
to sing and perform worldwide. The short of it is
that if you have a chance to see Sweet Honey
in the Rock, I recommend that you do it. Longtime
listeners will know that I've been to countless concerts. You know,
(03:15):
when you work in radio, you get concert tickets, and
you know I have a hip hop background, so I've
been to all the biggest hip hop concerts. I've worked for,
you know, all rock stations, So I've been to the
biggest rock concerts. This was the best concert that I
had been to. It was the best one. I have
no problem saying it. I'll probably say it for the
rest of my life. It was emotional and it was beautiful.
(03:35):
And to see these women on stage, and these weren't
young dancing women. These were women that they look like
queens and princesses, and they had stories that were full
of life and full of energy, and it was emotional.
It was beautiful, and I just needed to share that
with you again, sweet honey in the rock. If they're
(03:55):
on their way to you, please make it a point
to check them out. And now't's get into this conversation
with Mark Moreal. Mark Moreal is President and CEO of
the National Urban League, the nation's largest historic civil rights
and urban advocacy organization. As Mayor of New Orleans from
nineteen ninety four to two thousand and two, Moreal led
New Orleans Renaissance and left office with a seventy percent
(04:17):
approval rating. A graduate of the University of Pennsylvania with
a degree in economics and African American studies, he also
holds a law degree from the Georgetown University. All right,
mister Morreal, welcome back to the show Man. We haven't
seen you since being on the ground in DC at
the Congressional Black Caucus. Man, So what have you been
(04:38):
up to?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Since this's do too long? We can't go this long.
I know, up and connecting and have a good conversation.
But hey, thank you for having me. Always appreciate it then,
always eager to engage with the community.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Oh, we appreciate it now, you know, we just talked
about it a bit. We're on in some new cities.
We've had a lot of gross since you've last been on.
So for folks that are just coming to the conversation,
just becoming familiar with your work nationally, do us a favor,
just a little bit.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
I want everyone to know.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
I'm proud to lead the National Urban League, a one
hundred and fifteen year old national historic, civil rights and
urban advocacy ORBAN station. We're headquartered in New York City
in Harlem on one hundred and twenty fifth Street at
the Urban League Empowerment Center. But we have a network
of ninety three Urban League affiliates, maybe in your hometown,
(05:35):
across the nation, through which we serve three hundred communities
in thirty six states. So we are an advocate for
civil rights and economic opportunity. And we are a direct
program provider after school, home buyer education, job training, small
business assistance, health equity.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
We do that work in local communities.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
And I'm proud now to be serving in my second
decade as president of the National Urban League. But I'm
a bit of a recovering politician, having served in the
Louisiana Legislature and served eight years as mayor.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Of the great City of New Orleans, my beloved hometown.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
So you know, I bring, I think to this conversation
years of involvement, years of experience, but also a real
sense of where we are vis a vis the future.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Fantastic.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
So obviously this time of year, we're taking inventory of
where we are, where we've been, where we're going. So,
being in your position and at the helm of one
of the great civil rights organizations in this country, what
would you say is maybe one of the biggest lessons
(06:49):
that we've learned in twenty twenty five that will fortify
us moving forward.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
We better understand that who wins the elections matters, and
making excuses about not voting is committing suicide, you know,
refusing to vote, making excuses about voting is suicide because
this country respects political power and economic power open and shot,
(07:23):
and we need to always think about how to maximize
our political power. And that is not to necessarily have
to I don't vote because I'm in love with anybody.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
That's not my condition.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
I vote because my agenda aligns with them mostly.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
May not adjoint completely.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
And the agenda aligned with mostly may be in opposition
to an agenda that doesn't align with me at all
or very little. Sure, we got to be intelligent voters.
We need to understand that all of what we see
the doage cuts, the layoffs of black women, the attacks
(08:06):
on diversity, equity and inclusion, the militarization of American cities,
stems from the outcome of the election, and so we
gotta centralize that lesson. It was good that in the
fall of twenty four we had high turnout in Virginia,
high turnout in New Jersey, and the highest turnout in
(08:30):
a mayor's race in New York City since nineteen sixty nine.
Those are good signs if we can sustain and increase
that across the nation. So I'm the first one to say, Hey,
voting is not an elixir, not a panacea, not a
magic wand not a super powerful pill. But it is
(08:53):
a lever of power that we have and it has
to be individuals.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Aligned together collectively to make impact.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
So I say we should learn that we should also
learn that in twenty twenty five. I've been very clear
from the very beginning that the National Urban League and
other civil rights organizations, we will continue to stand against
policies that hurt America, while always demonstrating a willingness to
(09:22):
work with anyone that wants to benefit our community. And
so I've been somewhat Not only have we seen the
federal administration take steps that are damaging, we've also seen
many many corporations that rely heavily on African American consumers
step off, step away, step to the side when it
(09:45):
comes to a commitment of fairness and a commitment of
equal opportunity. That's what DNI is. It's a synonym D
and I is fairness and equal opportunity. Let's understand what
it is. And they've sought to smell and smear the
term in enough to make people fearful that diversity equity
(10:07):
inclusion is a preference program for black people and women.
It is not it is not, and we've got to
continue to stand up for a balanced, fair playing field
when it comes to jobs, contracts, home ownership, and opportunity.
This is where we are in America today. It's been
a state of emergency, but our community is strong. We're resilient,
(10:29):
we have resources. I was just in Biloxi, Mississippi, with
hundreds of African American legislators, and I found the energy
and the commitment strong. We got to build it, we
got to sustain it. We have to push back, and
we have to offer an alternative vision.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
I love that well, just to make that live a
little bit more. It's funny because Q and I were
having a conversation recently where we talked about doctor Umar
Johnson saying something effectually what he communicated this was been
back in twenty twenty four, was that black people should
not vote for the Democrat Kamala Harris until we get something,
(11:07):
which in Q's estimation was sort of putting the cart
before the horse. And I think that your words, in
terms of the reflection on the lessons that we learned
in twenty twenty five, really help make that stand out,
because the truth is that there were a lot of
people who were dissenting.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
People understand that sentiment, but it's political suicide, right right
withhold your vote?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
What did that get us?
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Exactly what he was saying?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yeah, on man, that's like saying, I'm not going to
breathe the air until it's clean, but he promised me
their airs clean, then I'll breathe it.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
That's what it's like.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah, you know, respect the sentiment, but I'm not going
to participate in political suicide.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yes, well, I'm glad that that's a lesson that we've
learned because that means that, you know, it wasn't a
total loss. But in that same vein, I want to ask,
you know, and I think I spec I got an
idea of what your answer might be, But what do
you think that we should collectively be looking forward to
in twenty twenty six?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
So for twenty twenty six, I think it's a year
when we have to sharpen what our agenda for America
is and for the national urbanly, it revolves around.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
What we call the D three imperative.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Okay, defend democracy, which is a defense and a promotion
of voting rights and civic participation and all of the
principles of democracy.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Not because democracy is perfect, but.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Because it's better than autocracy, sure better than a monarchy.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Number two, we have to demand diversity. By demanding diversity,
we're demanding equal participation in the economics of this country.
We've never had it, but we got to continue to
fight for it. And the third is defeat poverty. Why
does the richest nation on our thirty trillion in GDP
(13:03):
still tolerate Americans that can't pay their bills? Don't we
have the wherewithal? Don't we have the smarts?
Speaker 2 (13:11):
And what we've done is we've created a gilded class
of billionaires, about a million of them right, no, no, no,
about a thousand of them. And too many Americans, even
those that thought of themselves as being middle class or
working class, are being left behind. They work on jobs,
they work two jobs. Rents too high, mortgage is too high.
(13:36):
Taking care of parents, so many people are taking care
of parents, right, they may be taking parents and children simultaneously,
so economically, there were more middle class Americans in nineteen
seventy than there are today. The things are relative. You know,
in nineteen seventy you could be middle class. You didn't
(13:57):
have three devices. You know, you you live by the
standard of the times, and so I think it's unacceptable.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
I mean, Congress just passed one big ugly bill.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
It gave massive benefits to wealthy people.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
And now when you score it fiscally, the person.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Making fifty thousand dollars a year is going to be
paid seven hundred dollars more taxes a year. The billionaire
got a cut, the multimillionaire got a cut, major companies
got cuts. Why do politicians even embrace policies that put pain.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
On working, middle and poor Americans.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Well, you know, the point that you made about our
economic vitality in the seventies is something that I was
studying recently, because between the fifties and the seventies, that
was the only time time in history, it was in
this country too, the only time in history where a
person could work a normal job and become rich based
(15:09):
on simply their labor alone. And it hasn't been It
wasn't that way before, it hasn't been that way since.
And it is philosophies like trickle down economics from the
Reagan administration. And then we see that again in the
big ugly Bill, where these tax benefits go to the
wealthiest faction of the country with the expectation that they're
(15:30):
going to create jobs or drive innovation, and seldom does
that innovation or work jobs, et cetera trickle down to
the working class in a way that's meaningful. And this
is why we see us lagging behind the wealthiest group
of individuals in this country who are concentrating and hoarding
(15:51):
the wealth. I think it's forty percent of all the
wealth generated in last year of this country went to
just a handful of billionaires and the rest of us
are left to deal with the rest of the economy,
which is really crazy.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
When you think about one thousand billionaires in America, there
you go, Okay, this is a very small group of people.
It wouldn't fill Madison Square Garden, you know, it wouldn't.
It wouldn't fill the law an average high school in America.
I think it's eight hundred and thirteen fourteen fifteen building this. Look,
(16:26):
I'm not bashing a billionaire, but I am bashing systems, programs,
and policies which allows such an enormous creation of wealth
without a progressive tax code that compels them to put
back into the country that helped make them rich and great.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Sure, you don't get there by yourself. You don't become
rich on your own. You know.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
The taxpayers have built a first class interstate highway system
so e commerce trucks can traverse right. The taxpayers have
supported the building of a healthcare system, imperfect as it will,
which has allowed people to live much longer lives. The
(17:16):
taxpayers fund a civil aviation system, in part that creates
an opportunity for people to fly in commercial jets and
private planes to get from city to city in less
than a few hours. The taxpayers have funded a public
education system, albeit not perfect, and in many respects investments
(17:39):
in college education that helped produce a highly talented class
of people.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
We got to.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Understand that the taxpayers' investments enable.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
The creation.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Of wealth in America and continue this rhetoric that every
public school is a failure. Know that the that's the
healthcare system is an abject failure. It doesn't work for
people who don't have any money. And many, many schools
(18:14):
in suburban and rural America work very well and produced
a lot of presidential scholars.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
May not work well.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
In urban communities, in under resource communities, but we got
to understand you don't get to that enormity of wealth
without help from others.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
You know, look Musk, people talk about Musk. Musk is
a government contractor.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
You know, he has been chosen to commercialize technologies that
were created with government research. See what we don't have
going on in the public square enough to day is
truth telling, fact telling. You know, I'm saying this not
the bad, but to take some of these guys off
(19:04):
their thrones, some of these guys on it.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
I'm so brilliant. I'm the smartest guy in the world. Man.
Anybody that says that, I question their judgment, and rightfully so.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
I feel like this is a good sort of segue
into asking your thoughts about the election of Mom Donnie
in New York and really democratic socialism in general, because
it's kind of at a point where people are investigating
(19:44):
and I would imagine seeing it. I think I mentioned that.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
The democratic socialism.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
To be honest, I'm not clear what it always means
in terms of policy beyond a brand. Right, But let
me say this, Zorai Mandami ran a brilliant campaign, And
let me tell you why he ran a brilliant campaign.
He did something that Barack Obama did on the left
(20:12):
center left. What Donald Trump did on the center right,
and what all of my campaigns were mad or were
predicated on, and that is to expand the electorate, to
go after people who historically don't vote. And in my
Dommi's case, he did that in the primary and got
a voter pool where thirty percent of the voters were
(20:34):
first time voters. So what he did was able to
enthuse and stimulate a set of voters that historically.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Have not voted.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Now, to his credit, mister Trump did that on the right.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
He got rural voters. He got rural conservative leaning voters
to turn out in higher numbers in twenty sixteen, twenty
twenty four. So, Madami, I think, you know, I think
what I say about him is this great hope, a
lot of enthusiasm in many many places, some concerns and
(21:13):
fears in other places.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Let me tell how mayors are judge. Mayors are judged
by results, you know. Mayors are not judged by ideas.
Legislators sometimes are judge by ideas. Executives are judge by results.
So for my Dami, the question is a year from now,
twenty four months from now, how will the City of
New York be performing on his watch, but I think
(21:37):
he surprised some people. I've had an opportunity to have
several conversations with him, and I find him to be
quite thoughtful. I find him to be I think, committed
to his philosophy. But I think he's got a pragmatic
side to him. And I think that's important for a mayor, right.
A mayor has to have a pragmatic side, because you
(21:58):
get you're going to be judging whether you get things done,
not because you can flow big ideas the weather, you
can take those ideas and shape them and execute them.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
I love that. Yeah, I've been kind of peeking behind
the curtain there, just following those campaigns as they were
coming together, and I know that that you're absolutely right
that not only was it true of Mom Donnie, but
you're right about Donald Trump as well and Barack Obama
(22:31):
taking these non traditional avenues to get to voters that
feel like they've been disenfranchised, whether they be first time
voters or historically Democratic or Republican voters, and they feel
left behind by their party. And so all three of
these names have been able to galvanize these different groups.
And so my hope is because we covered a story
(22:54):
where there are seven black women running for Senate seats
in twenty twenty six. And hope is that these things
are well learned by politicians that we want to see,
you know, shape the future, especially after having what many
of us consider to be a political more than the
political setback with the re election of Donald Trump, those
(23:16):
of us that espouse more progressive agenda. Now, speaking of Trump,
I know Q wanted to drop a few bars about
black celebrities in the MAGA movement because they borrow from
our struggle only to betray us in the end. Q.
Speaker 5 (23:32):
Black celebrities, black billionaires, black multimillionaires, black taste makers, black
culture creators who came from these communities anchored and struggle,
suddenly standing arm in arm with MAGA, a movement that
(23:55):
has repeatedly championed policies, rhetoric, violence, and systems that specifically
harm Black people, suddenly telling the rest of us stop complaining,
stop playing the victim, just work harder. Both sides are
(24:20):
the same, that's my favorite. Meanwhile, they're smiling next to
people who have openly legislated against our humanity. And this
is not a coincidence, this is design. MAGA doesn't use
politics to convert or recruit. It's something that happens psychologically.
(24:47):
Maga has learned something powerful. If you want political loyalty
from black celebrity, don't even talk about policy. Start with
their pain. Start with you've been misunderstood. They try to
silence you. You're too powerful. That's why they attack you.
(25:13):
You're brave for standing alone. You're not a follower, you're
not a sheep. You're an independent thinker. They very subtly
and sometimes aggressively lean into ego, resentment, isolation, even insecurity,
(25:36):
and the universal human desire to feel seen and understood.
They speak to the wound and not to the mind.
Because once you can win someone over emotionally, well, their
politics follow. Once the ego is flattered, here comes the poison.
(26:00):
You didn't succeed because of opportunity. You succeed it because
you're better. You didn't make it because the community supported you.
You made it because you were above them. You don't
need that ladder anymore, so why not kick it down.
They turned their success into superiority. They turned privilege into
(26:25):
proof of exceptionalism. They turned distance from struggle into identity elevation.
And once someone believes that we collectively watch as their
empathy shrinks, community feels optional, solidarity with anyone feels beneath them,
(26:50):
And then MAGA looks at each other and smiles. Mission accomplished.
They rebrand that betrayal as courage. You're brave for thinking different.
You're such a strong freethinker. You're standing up against the mob.
(27:11):
You're not like other black people. Notice the language. They
don't say you are one of us, They just say
you're not one of them. Psychological warfare rewriting what it
means to belong. It relocates identity. It isolates them from us,
(27:36):
while giving them applause as a substitute for connection. They
offer something dangerous to rams protection the mainstream world. Like us,
we demand accountability that makes people feel attacked. Sometimes mac
(27:58):
is no such thing. They celebrate recklessness, They defend misinformation,
They protect ego. They don't even bother to question morality anymore.
Will never turn on you, they say, will protect you
(28:19):
and stand by you no matter what you say, no
matter what you do. You're safe with us. But blind
loyalty is not love, and with MAGA, it's more like
a lease than any sense of ownership, and the payment
political allegiance. MAGA does not chase black celebrities because they
support black advancement. They chase them because they need the
(28:43):
cultural credibility that comes with it, confusion inside black communities,
division where unity once existed, proof that they aren't racists. See,
we got one shit with us. See, so racism must
not be real.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Right.
Speaker 5 (29:04):
They don't want black voices, they want black shields. This
is the playbook. Validate pain, inflate ego, promise protection, provides spotlight,
separate from community, and then hand them a microphone to
punch down at their own people. So let's call it
(29:26):
what it is. It is not independent thinking, it's not bravery,
it's not enlightenment. This is a co op ego manipulation,
exploitation of trauma and using black pain as a recruitment tool,
convincing people who made it up the ladder to pull
it up behind them and then call it strength. MAGA
(29:48):
doesn't love these celebrities, Ramses. They just love what these
celebrities can do for them. And when they're done, as
we see, they will drop them just as fast as
they embrace them.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!