August 15, 2025 • 30 mins
Today's special guest is Areva Martin, a Harvard-trained civil rights attorney and founder of Special Needs Network. She joins Host Ramses Ja t to discuss the topic of her new podcast and helping Black families navigate systemic barriers in special education.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Broadcasting from the Civic Ciphers Studios. Welcome to the QR Code.
We have a very special guest in the studio with
us today. We need you to stick around because we're
going to be talking to the one, the only, Arriva Martin.
She is going to be having a fantastic conversation with
us that will cover everything from disability and racial justice
(00:22):
and the intersection of those two factors. We're also going
to be talking about policy affecting disability and Black communities
and how people can create the changes that are necessary
in their communities and in this country. We're going to
talk about a new generation of black women shaping public policy.
We're also going to discuss those black women championing educational
(00:44):
equity for black and brown families. We're going to spend
some time talking about reparations. We're going to talk about
her books that she's written and who she's written them
for and what folks can learn.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
From those books.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
We're also going to be talking about diversity, equity and
inclusion and the attacks that DEI initiatives have suffered under
this administration and whether or not we pivot if we do,
how that looks, and what our path should be moving forward.
We're going to talk about many, many other things, but
we as always liked to start the show off with
(01:19):
a little bit of a feel good feature, and so
today's feel good feature, we're going to be sharing a
bit about the black women in Martha's Vineyard this week,
specifically Katanji Brown Jackson. So I'll share a bit from
the Black Information Network. Supreme Court Justice Katanji Brown Jackson
kicked off this year's annual Martha's Vineyard Black Book Festival
(01:40):
with a discussion about her new memoir on Saturday, August ninth.
Jackson was greeted by a crowd of nearly two hundred
people as she stepped into a tent at the Island
Inn in Oak Bluffs to speak about her memoir Lovely One,
at Martha's Vineyard Black Book Festival. Per Envy Times, Supreme
Court Justice was the first speaker at the festival, which
featured twenty two are authors, including Reverend Liz Walker, filmmaker
(02:02):
Malcolm D. Lee, former Secretary of Education John B. King,
and emery professor Carita L.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Brown.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Jackson read from the preface of her memoir before setting
down for a conversation with festival founder Tracy Wilkes Smith.
When asked about the title of her book, Jackson explained
that her name, Kaitanji Onika, was chosen by her mother
with help from an aunt in the Peace Corps in
West Africa, which she said meant lovely one. Jackson said
(02:31):
she was inspired to become a judge after learning at
a young age that she shared a birthday with Constance
Baker Motley, the first black woman to serve as a
federal judge.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
I always thought I wanted to be a lawyer, she said,
but then I come across this revelation and just thought,
you know, maybe I could be a judge. When you
see other people doing the kinds of things that you
were interested in, who are like you, you really start
to dream bigger. The Lovely Ones author encouraged attendees to
remain civically engaged mid challenging times.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
I don't know that I have any particular words of wisdom,
Jackson said, other than to say, we are obviously going
through pretty challenging times right now, and it's very important
that people stay tuned into what is happening in our
government and in our society, because this is your government,
this is your society. This is your life, and we
live in a democracy where the people are supposed to
be the one that decide what happens, unquote. So if
(03:27):
she has not lost hope and faith, then I think
that we can all maintain a little bit more hope
and faith in the future of this country. And again,
our guest today is actually spending time out in Martha's
vineyard with all of these fantastic folks. So without further ado,
let's get into our conversation. Arriva Martin is a Harvard
(03:50):
trained civil rights attorney, disability justice advocate, and founder of
Special Needs Network. She is on the frontline of today's
most pressing racial and social justice issues, leading the charge
in California's landmark Palm Springs reparations case, and helping black
families navigate systemic barriers in special education. And she is
(04:12):
our guest today.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
This is the.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
QR code and I am your host, Rams's job. All right,
Areva Martin? Welcome to the show. How you doing today?
Speaker 3 (04:23):
I'm doing fantastic. Thank you so much, Ramses for having me.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Absolutely so obviously I gave you a brief introduction, But
for the folks that are just coming to the table
just learning about your activism. Do us A favor of
what we typically do around here is we start all
our stories at the beginning. So give the folks a
little bit of your background, maybe where you grew up,
you know, what your passions are, those sorts of things,
(04:47):
so that we understand who it is we're having a
conversation with today.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Yes, I grew up in a housing project in North
sing leuis so at the heart of who I am.
I'm a Midwesterner. I went on to to the University
of Chicago. Then I went to Harvard Law School, then
moved to Los Angeles, where I've been practicing. Where I
started my law firm, where I started my nonprofit, where
I started my work in TV, in media and advocacy.
(05:14):
I've written four books. I started a nonprofit, as you
indicated in the opening Specialties Network. I've run a civil
rights law firm in Los Angeles. I actually have two
daughters that graduated from law school, and we've been working
kind of in an intergenerational space. They both are passionate
(05:35):
about some of the same issues I'm passionate about, which
is tearing down barriers, creating pathways for justice and equity.
For folks they look like us, whether it's in the
healthcare space, the educational space, and just using our voices,
using our platforms to really ensure that folks in underserved,
underrepresented communities have a voice. I actually wrote a book
(05:57):
called Naked Rain, and it was all about how everyone
can use their platforms, no matter how large or how small,
to be the voice for the voiceless. So super excited
about working with my daughters. One is actually working in
my law firm.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I said.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
The three of us are working collectively on a media
project and just trying to reach as many folks in
as many different generations as possible to get them excited,
to keep them excited about this thing we call justice.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yeah, And I've seen you've been widely celebrated for the
work that you do.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
You know, I was just off the top of my head.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
I saw that it wasn't too long ago, but Sherry
Shepherd ended up talking about you for some length about
the work that you've done and gave an a.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
War to you.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
And Cherry Shepherd is someone that I know from growing up.
She hear and my aunt are best friends. And so
when I saw that, I was like, oh my god,
you know, this is quite a big deal. So I see,
I see the work that you're doing.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Thank you. We had Shary and I have been friends
for a while. Her bestie Kim Whitley's also a good
friend of mine, and Sherry's son. You know, it's on
the autism spectrum. She talks about Jeffrey all the time.
Jeffrey was a camp counselor last year at a summer
camp that I run in Los Angeles, and she came
and opening they have camp, talked with all the parents.
She frequently purchased a lunch for the camp counselors, and
(07:23):
her son and Sherry have become very much a part
of our specialties family in Los Angeles. So she uses
her platform for good, obviously entertaining millions on that daytime
talk show, but also raising awareness about issues that are
important to her, like autism advocacy.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah yeah, now, speaking of autism advocacy, my listener, some
of my listeners might know that I have a cousin
who is on the spectrum, and he ended up coming
to Phoenix and there's a They don't like when we
call it a facility, but there's a building.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
I guess we'll.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Say where they work with young people who are transitioning
into adulthood on the spectrum. It's called First Place, and
they work with adults, I guess young adults prior to
them kind of setting off on their own. And I
ended up having a conversation with the CEO about the
(08:22):
intersection of.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Racial justice and.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Folks on the autism spectrum, and that intersection finds a
lot of people on the streets and homeless shelters. That
intersection finds a lot of people displaced, a lot of
families kind of break down at that critical point. Now
(08:48):
you're somebody who probably knows a much broader view of
how race and let's call it a disability intersect. So
talk to our listeners a little bit about again that
intersection of disability justice and racial justice.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Well, one of the things that's really disheartening, rams is
that the disability community historically has been very siloed from
the social justice community. And you think about some of
our legacy civil rights organizations NAACP, Urbanly, they too, and
I'm gonna give you know, chied them a little have
(09:26):
not been at the forefront of advocating for those individuals
who have disabilities. So when I came into the space
as a civil rights warrior, it just makes it was just,
you know, a natural for me to think about, how
do I break down some of those silos, how do
I partner with some of the legacy civil rights organizations,
which I've done in Los Angeles to Los Angeles Urban League,
We've worked together in a partnership on a number of
(09:49):
different projects. I'm really proud of that work and working
even with Mark Morial at the national level, but also
trying to work with some of those legacy disability rights
organizations to get them to appreciate that the disability rights
organizations in many ways exist because of pioneers in the
civil rights movement, like doctor King. So we see the
(10:11):
disparities start at a very young age, particularly when we
talked about autism. Because black and brown kids with autism
are diagnosed two to four years later than their typical peers,
they often struggle to get the kind of interventions and
support that they need, and many will go undiagnosed and
will go without interventions until they are teenagers or older.
(10:31):
And that's where you start to see because they haven't
had the diagnosis the interventions, many may end up in
the juvenile justice system. So you see that, you know,
the disparities that play, you know, black and brown people
in general having a more significant impact when you are
dealing with a disability. I have a board member on
(10:52):
my nonprofit. She's a public defender in the Los Angeles
Public Defender's Office, and we actually partnered with them some
years ago because she was seeing so many of her
juveniles that she had to defend as a public defender
who were kids who had some form of disability, not
necessarily autism, maybe it was a you know, dyslexia, some
kind of learning disability, some kind of emotional disturbance or
(11:15):
mental health issue, but it had not been diagnosed in school,
it had not been treated, and therefore they found themselves
in the juvenile justice system. So there's definitely a lot
of intersection in those two communities. And one of the
things I've been doing is trying to break down some
of those silos, particularly for black folks, and getting the
legacy organizations in those organizations that work to you know,
(11:37):
improve the lize of black people to recognize it also
in that demographic or black folks with a range of
developmental disabilities, mental health issues that will impact their quality
of life.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah, I had a guest on that too long ago,
and she briefly touched on, well, you know what you
just mentioned, but in the broader conversation, she was just
dicussing a school to prison pipeline, and she delineated delinquent
behavior from black children from other children, particularly white children,
(12:13):
saying that you know where they misbehave and have a
pattern of misbehaving. If they're diagnosed and medicated or treated
or whatever the case is, they.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Tend to.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Work their way through the traditional educational channels. But the
traditional education system often rejects black and brown pupils, and
those pupils end up at an extremely high rate if
I'm not mistaken, in the criminal justice system, either at
that point or later in their lives. And so I
think that your point is well made insofar as that's concerned. Now,
(12:54):
you know, there's a I suppose a generation of women
shaping public policy.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
You know that could be with elected officials, that could be.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
In the courtrooms, et cetera, that are championing equity for
black and brown families. And my understanding is that this
is the work that you're doing with your daughter. So
talk a little bit more about kind of the broader
scope of the work that you do in that regard.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Well, definitely, we see black women, as you said, whether
they are in elected office, if they are leading nonprofit organizations,
leading civil rights organizations, social justice organizations. You know, we
are just out there organizing on the streets, you know,
whether it's marches or protests. Black women are doing our part.
(13:39):
I think, to one we call it save our democracy
and to continue to highlight the issues, the disparities, the
equity issues that plague our community. My daughters, you know,
grew up in a household where they watch me and
their father work on these kinds of issues, through our
civil rights law practice, through the nonprofit work that we
(14:01):
got involved with, through the political activism that was so
much apart and continues to be a part of our lives. So, Uh,
they understood very early on that to who much is given,
much is expected. They worked as little kids in the
nonprofit volunteering, uh, you know, learning about how to run
a nonprofit. They worked in our law firm, learning entrepreneurship
(14:24):
and just appreciating that.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
They have a unique place uh in this world because
of the work that we have done as parents, but
that that that unique place also comes with a lot
of responsibility. And that responsibility is to you know, use
the skills, the talents, the degrees, the platforms that they have,
UH to pay it to pay it forward. And that
(14:49):
has been you know, that's my message. I mentor a
lot of women and some men, but mostly young women
who are either starting out in their careers, uh, those
who or trying to figure out what that career path
looks like for them. And one of the things I
always tell them is, you know, it's not just about
you or you know what you do to grow your
(15:10):
own assets, your own investments, you know, your own bank account,
but what are you going to do in this world
that helps someone that is less fortunate than you, or
someone that doesn't have the access and the privilege. You know,
I'm doing this interview as I am visiting friends spending
a week on the island Martha's Vineyard, and you know,
(15:32):
this is August, so you know what Martha's Vineyard looks
like in August, and so having conversations with black folks
from around the country, you know, predominantly East Coasters, New Yorkers,
folks in Washington, d C. And other parts of the
East Coast, but really talking about where we are in
this country, you know, from a political standpoint, and the
work that we have to do, and how those of
(15:55):
us who you know again have the good fortune to
be on this island at this time, you know what
our responsibility is to be at the forefront of the
movements that are going to really be consequential to black folks.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Sure, I saw some big names out there alongside your name,
so I know that you're you. You all power players
are doing what you do best, which is be our
collective north star in terms of you know, folks in
(16:29):
this country, which also brings me kounted to the second
part of what I wanted to ask you, And I
was thinking about this yesterday on this show. My co
host Q and I we both we take our activism
on the road. We travel the country. We work with
(16:50):
the legacy civil rights orgs that you mentioned.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
And more.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
You know, we were with Mark Morial in Cleveland not
too long ago, in Baltimore this was months ago, but
with the NCNW National Council for Negro Women WI shabon
our line Bradley and you know, and the whole bit.
And one of the things that we've said whenever we
(17:18):
have a microphone in an audience, particularly since the last election.
But this is a statement that we've long affirmed to
be true on this program, is that black women are
as close to God as we can be on this earth.
It's something that we believe, and we can make a
moral and a scientific argument to that end. And so
(17:41):
when I say that black women are our north star,
and I kind of give you those flowers as it were,
we really mean that, and we really kind of get
behind that effort and hopefully compel other folks to rewire
their thinking. We don't think enough folks we're able to
see during the last election exactly what we were trying
(18:02):
to say now in terms of black women sort of
leading the charge, coming up with the strategies, you know,
leading the fight, at least at present. I know that
there's a lot of things that we are still learning
from black women, and you being one of those women
(18:22):
who is leading that charge and coming up with the
policies and kind of showing us what needs to be done.
You do it from a national stage, and the rest
of us do it in our local communities. Talk to
us a bit about confronting systemic bias in other areas.
I don't want to switch gears too far, so I
still want to talk about disability policy, but also let's
(18:44):
expand a little bit to you know, housing, education, etc.
What is it that we should know about again confronting
systemic biases and systemic I guess, disenfranchisement in other areas
of our lives.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
I think the most important thing to know is that
we can never stop. We can't give up. Even in
this time that looks like all the work that we
have done, all the work that our ancestors have done,
seems to be in jeopardy. I think that should fuel us,
rather than discourage us. We should figure out ways. All
of us have an obligation to be thinking about how
(19:22):
we work harder and run faster, rather than retreating and
retrenching and allowing those that are in power, the powers
that be, to discourage us or to make us cower.
Because the systemic biases that we confront today are nothing,
nothing like that which our ancestors face, you know, thirty
(19:44):
forty fifty years ago. And think about all the tools,
all the resources, all the strategies, all that we have
at our disposal to confront those biases that it is
so much more than what they had. So you think
about the tools that they had in the nineteen fifties
and the sixties to confront those racial biases. You know,
they didn't have the benefit of podcasts and Instagram and TikTok.
(20:07):
They didn't have the benefit of being able to freely
gather in a place like Martha's vineyard and to talk openly,
and to confront openly an administration that is hostile to
African Americans. They didn't have the freedom to, you know,
raise our voices in the way that we do without
suffering repercussions, in the way that we saw, you know,
(20:30):
our ancestors, juice. I don't think we can have a
lose sight of that. We have to continue to push forward,
even though it may be uncomfortable, even though in this
moment it may feel like we're not making the kind
of progress that we would like to make. I think,
and I continue to encourage folks, don't stop doing the
work even if it looks like we're not making progress.
Incremental progress. The building, the foundation, building, the preparation, the strategizing,
(20:54):
all of that is so critical to you know, launching.
We may not be able to launch in a way
that we want to launch in this moment. But the
pendulum that has swung from George Floyd back to Donald
Trump will swing again, and the question is will we
be ready, will we be able to confront and you know,
to deliver, because ultimately, as you just said, whether it's
(21:15):
it's it's black women, black people that are going to
I believe save this country from itself, we always have.
We've always you know, answered the charge. We've always stood strong,
We've always been resilient and been ready, willing and able
to take on the fight. And so here we are again.
(21:37):
So as difficult as it may seem, I'm encouraged. I'm
encouraged by the voices that I see around the country
who are standing strong and who are fighting.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Yeah. Yeah, and I appreciate that I am. We have different.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Folks on the show with different ideas of what the
present holds and what the future might hold. And had
a recent conversation with a brilliant economic mind who is
you know, widely celebrated in this country, and he had
a perspective that felt a little bleak, and he was saying, Hey,
(22:22):
you know what, nobody's coming to save us we need
to focus on getting our money together right. And I
understand the point that he was trying to make, but
for a lot of people that is easier said than done,
and for a lot of people, I think it misses
the nature of.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
You know, their nature.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
You know, some people pursue happiness, some people pursue spiritual fulfillment,
some people pursue other things besides money. Money is absolutely important,
and I think that what you're saying today really speaks
to more humans, more homo sapien safepions than those who
are purely motivated by fiscal interests. Another thing that I
(23:06):
say often, and I'd love your thoughts here, is that
on the scale of a country, things move very slowly.
So it is very easy for people to become disheartened
when they look back at the past four years, or
when they look ahead at the next four years, or
(23:27):
become disheartened if they see kind of on the scale
of a lifetime where things started versus where things are,
and project out into the future where things might be.
But when you take a step further back and you
look at the timeline of a country, which exists a
lot longer than a lifetime, in most cases, you do
(23:48):
see progress. You see two steps forward, you see one
step back. And the two steps forward might be one
hundred years worth of steps forward and the step back
might be fifty years right, But overall, think that further
makes your point. So again, I wanted to get your
thoughts there, because these are just things that I share
with my listeners, but obviously we want to get your
insight someone who has so much additional perspective to add.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Well, I'm glad you brought off the issue of money,
because you know, different folks have different relationships with money,
and obviously money is important. And obviously, whether you're running
a political campaign or a nonprofit organization or think tank,
at the end of the day, you need money to
build infrastructure, to you know, launch a campaign. So I
(24:37):
don't want to minimize the importance of money. But obviously
everybody is not going to be in the pursuit of money,
as you just said, the way some folks are. And
I think when we look about when we look at
what we have to do, the task is so enormous
and the need for everybody to be a part and
to have all hands on deck is so great. Everybody
(24:59):
plays a role. Not everybody is going to be an investor.
Not everybody's going to be an entrepreneur. They're going to
be academics, they're going to be scholars, they're going to
be folks that work in the media. They're going to
be anthropologists, sociologists, lawyers, you know, scientists. So I don't
think we should be minimizing the importance of the roles
that all of us have to play and respect the
(25:21):
different lanes that everyone is in now. You know, one
of the critiques we often hear of the civil rights
movement is that there wasn't enough emphasis on economic empowerment,
on you know, on finances and on building generational wealth.
And there are folks, you know, economists, investors, finance folks,
banking folks, a lot of them on the island this week,
(25:42):
this month who are doing just that, having conversations about
the state of Black America from a financial standpoint. How
do we increase home ownership amongst black folks? How do we,
you know, get more blacks to start businesses? How do
we get more blacks to think about you know, generational
wealth once those businesses are built, you know, transferring those
(26:04):
businesses to the next generation. How do we get more
blacks investing in tech in you know, the AI Revolution.
So those kinds of conversations are happening, and there are
people obviously not enough, but you know, the conversations to
encourage more black folks to be in those spaces are happening.
But you know, we can walk and chew gum at
(26:24):
the same time. So as those conversations are happening, you
know other conversations policy conversations. So Kimberly Crenshaw, you know,
noted academic scholar, she convened attorneys general from around the country.
She had about four or five in a conversation about
their role, how they were using the legal process filing
lawsuits against the current administration to challenge some of these
(26:50):
cool and harsh policies that we see, particularly around immigration,
we see around education and healthcare. So I just think
we're a great, big ten and everybody can play a
role as we try to advance you know, the causes
of black people.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Sure, sure, And if I may, I want to add
a note here for folks that might take that to
heart that during the Civil rights movement, you know, we
weren't paying enough attention to economics. My understanding of that
moment in time.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Is that.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
It was there was a sort of critical process in place.
We had to deal with the social issues in order
to deal with the economic issues. And it was right
around the time when doctor King's focus started to shift.
You'd accomplished some great things and this focus started to
shift to money. And when you have a money conversation,
you have a lot of poor people that can come
to the table and have that conversation. And indeed, that
(27:52):
was why he was in Memphis, and that was around
the time when he was or that was the time
when he was assassinated. And so I don't want to
knock our ancestors having led the charge. I think they
just had a critical process and by the time they
got to the point to have a conversation about money,
there were enough people that were You know, it's one
(28:15):
thing to share a water fountain with you and to
sit down and across the diner and you can eat
at the same diners. Me it's another thing to come
for my money, to come for the war that was
taking place at the time. So I just I don't
I don't want to. I want to make sure that
people have a little bit more context there. But yes,
indeed there were some people that you know and duly
noted that the economics of that time weren't yet a
(28:35):
part of the conversation.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
I think that's probably the best way to frame that.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
So no, I mean, I just want to say this,
and what I say to those folks who are critical
of the civil rights leaders who believe that, you know,
they kind of dropped the ball when it came to
the issue of money and finances is, you know, justice
and equality were never going to be one in one generation,
so they could not do everything thing. They paid the
(29:00):
way they opened the door, and then each successive uh,
you know generation has an obligation to take the baton
and move it forward. So I'm not about critiquing what
those leaders did, because it's nothing short of miraculous what
they did. And now the question we should all be
asking ourselves is what are we doing to move the
(29:21):
baton further? So if we believe that there was something
left out of that process in the fifties or sixties,
the question should be, how are we making sure that
we are stepping in that gap, filling that void and
moving the you know, the conversation the issue of justice
and equality, you know, further to the you know that
we are doing our part in terms of advancing this work,
(29:45):
because it's easy to critique and point the fingers at
what someone else didn't do, but it's a whole lot
harder to roll up your sleeves and make the kind
of sacrifices that we know that those leaders may uh
to continue to do this work.
Broadcasting from the Civic Ciphers Studios. Welcome to the QR Code.
We have a very special guest in the studio with
us today. We need you to stick around because we're
going to be talking to the one, the only, Arriva Martin.
She is going to be having a fantastic conversation with
us that will cover everything from disability and racial justice
(00:22):
and the intersection of those two factors. We're also going
to be talking about policy affecting disability and Black communities
and how people can create the changes that are necessary
in their communities and in this country. We're going to
talk about a new generation of black women shaping public policy.
We're also going to discuss those black women championing educational
(00:44):
equity for black and brown families. We're going to spend
some time talking about reparations. We're going to talk about
her books that she's written and who she's written them
for and what folks can learn.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
From those books.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
We're also going to be talking about diversity, equity and
inclusion and the attacks that DEI initiatives have suffered under
this administration and whether or not we pivot if we do,
how that looks, and what our path should be moving forward.
We're going to talk about many, many other things, but
we as always liked to start the show off with
(01:19):
a little bit of a feel good feature, and so
today's feel good feature, we're going to be sharing a
bit about the black women in Martha's Vineyard this week,
specifically Katanji Brown Jackson. So I'll share a bit from
the Black Information Network. Supreme Court Justice Katanji Brown Jackson
kicked off this year's annual Martha's Vineyard Black Book Festival
(01:40):
with a discussion about her new memoir on Saturday, August ninth.
Jackson was greeted by a crowd of nearly two hundred
people as she stepped into a tent at the Island
Inn in Oak Bluffs to speak about her memoir Lovely One,
at Martha's Vineyard Black Book Festival. Per Envy Times, Supreme
Court Justice was the first speaker at the festival, which
featured twenty two are authors, including Reverend Liz Walker, filmmaker
(02:02):
Malcolm D. Lee, former Secretary of Education John B. King,
and emery professor Carita L.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Brown.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Jackson read from the preface of her memoir before setting
down for a conversation with festival founder Tracy Wilkes Smith.
When asked about the title of her book, Jackson explained
that her name, Kaitanji Onika, was chosen by her mother
with help from an aunt in the Peace Corps in
West Africa, which she said meant lovely one. Jackson said
(02:31):
she was inspired to become a judge after learning at
a young age that she shared a birthday with Constance
Baker Motley, the first black woman to serve as a
federal judge.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
I always thought I wanted to be a lawyer, she said,
but then I come across this revelation and just thought,
you know, maybe I could be a judge. When you
see other people doing the kinds of things that you
were interested in, who are like you, you really start
to dream bigger. The Lovely Ones author encouraged attendees to
remain civically engaged mid challenging times.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
I don't know that I have any particular words of wisdom,
Jackson said, other than to say, we are obviously going
through pretty challenging times right now, and it's very important
that people stay tuned into what is happening in our
government and in our society, because this is your government,
this is your society. This is your life, and we
live in a democracy where the people are supposed to
be the one that decide what happens, unquote. So if
(03:27):
she has not lost hope and faith, then I think
that we can all maintain a little bit more hope
and faith in the future of this country. And again,
our guest today is actually spending time out in Martha's
vineyard with all of these fantastic folks. So without further ado,
let's get into our conversation. Arriva Martin is a Harvard
(03:50):
trained civil rights attorney, disability justice advocate, and founder of
Special Needs Network. She is on the frontline of today's
most pressing racial and social justice issues, leading the charge
in California's landmark Palm Springs reparations case, and helping black
families navigate systemic barriers in special education. And she is
(04:12):
our guest today.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
This is the.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
QR code and I am your host, Rams's job. All right,
Areva Martin? Welcome to the show. How you doing today?
Speaker 3 (04:23):
I'm doing fantastic. Thank you so much, Ramses for having me.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Absolutely so obviously I gave you a brief introduction, But
for the folks that are just coming to the table
just learning about your activism. Do us A favor of
what we typically do around here is we start all
our stories at the beginning. So give the folks a
little bit of your background, maybe where you grew up,
you know, what your passions are, those sorts of things,
(04:47):
so that we understand who it is we're having a
conversation with today.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Yes, I grew up in a housing project in North
sing leuis so at the heart of who I am.
I'm a Midwesterner. I went on to to the University
of Chicago. Then I went to Harvard Law School, then
moved to Los Angeles, where I've been practicing. Where I
started my law firm, where I started my nonprofit, where
I started my work in TV, in media and advocacy.
(05:14):
I've written four books. I started a nonprofit, as you
indicated in the opening Specialties Network. I've run a civil
rights law firm in Los Angeles. I actually have two
daughters that graduated from law school, and we've been working
kind of in an intergenerational space. They both are passionate
(05:35):
about some of the same issues I'm passionate about, which
is tearing down barriers, creating pathways for justice and equity.
For folks they look like us, whether it's in the
healthcare space, the educational space, and just using our voices,
using our platforms to really ensure that folks in underserved,
underrepresented communities have a voice. I actually wrote a book
(05:57):
called Naked Rain, and it was all about how everyone
can use their platforms, no matter how large or how small,
to be the voice for the voiceless. So super excited
about working with my daughters. One is actually working in
my law firm.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I said.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
The three of us are working collectively on a media
project and just trying to reach as many folks in
as many different generations as possible to get them excited,
to keep them excited about this thing we call justice.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yeah, And I've seen you've been widely celebrated for the
work that you do.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
You know, I was just off the top of my head.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
I saw that it wasn't too long ago, but Sherry
Shepherd ended up talking about you for some length about
the work that you've done and gave an a.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
War to you.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
And Cherry Shepherd is someone that I know from growing up.
She hear and my aunt are best friends. And so
when I saw that, I was like, oh my god,
you know, this is quite a big deal. So I see,
I see the work that you're doing.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Thank you. We had Shary and I have been friends
for a while. Her bestie Kim Whitley's also a good
friend of mine, and Sherry's son. You know, it's on
the autism spectrum. She talks about Jeffrey all the time.
Jeffrey was a camp counselor last year at a summer
camp that I run in Los Angeles, and she came
and opening they have camp, talked with all the parents.
She frequently purchased a lunch for the camp counselors, and
(07:23):
her son and Sherry have become very much a part
of our specialties family in Los Angeles. So she uses
her platform for good, obviously entertaining millions on that daytime
talk show, but also raising awareness about issues that are
important to her, like autism advocacy.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah yeah, now, speaking of autism advocacy, my listener, some
of my listeners might know that I have a cousin
who is on the spectrum, and he ended up coming
to Phoenix and there's a They don't like when we
call it a facility, but there's a building.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
I guess we'll.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Say where they work with young people who are transitioning
into adulthood on the spectrum. It's called First Place, and
they work with adults, I guess young adults prior to
them kind of setting off on their own. And I
ended up having a conversation with the CEO about the
(08:22):
intersection of.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Racial justice and.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Folks on the autism spectrum, and that intersection finds a
lot of people on the streets and homeless shelters. That
intersection finds a lot of people displaced, a lot of
families kind of break down at that critical point. Now
(08:48):
you're somebody who probably knows a much broader view of
how race and let's call it a disability intersect. So
talk to our listeners a little bit about again that
intersection of disability justice and racial justice.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Well, one of the things that's really disheartening, rams is
that the disability community historically has been very siloed from
the social justice community. And you think about some of
our legacy civil rights organizations NAACP, Urbanly, they too, and
I'm gonna give you know, chied them a little have
(09:26):
not been at the forefront of advocating for those individuals
who have disabilities. So when I came into the space
as a civil rights warrior, it just makes it was just,
you know, a natural for me to think about, how
do I break down some of those silos, how do
I partner with some of the legacy civil rights organizations,
which I've done in Los Angeles to Los Angeles Urban League,
We've worked together in a partnership on a number of
(09:49):
different projects. I'm really proud of that work and working
even with Mark Morial at the national level, but also
trying to work with some of those legacy disability rights
organizations to get them to appreciate that the disability rights
organizations in many ways exist because of pioneers in the
civil rights movement, like doctor King. So we see the
(10:11):
disparities start at a very young age, particularly when we
talked about autism. Because black and brown kids with autism
are diagnosed two to four years later than their typical peers,
they often struggle to get the kind of interventions and
support that they need, and many will go undiagnosed and
will go without interventions until they are teenagers or older.
(10:31):
And that's where you start to see because they haven't
had the diagnosis the interventions, many may end up in
the juvenile justice system. So you see that, you know,
the disparities that play, you know, black and brown people
in general having a more significant impact when you are
dealing with a disability. I have a board member on
(10:52):
my nonprofit. She's a public defender in the Los Angeles
Public Defender's Office, and we actually partnered with them some
years ago because she was seeing so many of her
juveniles that she had to defend as a public defender
who were kids who had some form of disability, not
necessarily autism, maybe it was a you know, dyslexia, some
kind of learning disability, some kind of emotional disturbance or
(11:15):
mental health issue, but it had not been diagnosed in school,
it had not been treated, and therefore they found themselves
in the juvenile justice system. So there's definitely a lot
of intersection in those two communities. And one of the
things I've been doing is trying to break down some
of those silos, particularly for black folks, and getting the
legacy organizations in those organizations that work to you know,
(11:37):
improve the lize of black people to recognize it also
in that demographic or black folks with a range of
developmental disabilities, mental health issues that will impact their quality
of life.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah, I had a guest on that too long ago,
and she briefly touched on, well, you know what you
just mentioned, but in the broader conversation, she was just
dicussing a school to prison pipeline, and she delineated delinquent
behavior from black children from other children, particularly white children,
(12:13):
saying that you know where they misbehave and have a
pattern of misbehaving. If they're diagnosed and medicated or treated
or whatever the case is, they.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Tend to.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Work their way through the traditional educational channels. But the
traditional education system often rejects black and brown pupils, and
those pupils end up at an extremely high rate if
I'm not mistaken, in the criminal justice system, either at
that point or later in their lives. And so I
think that your point is well made insofar as that's concerned. Now,
(12:54):
you know, there's a I suppose a generation of women
shaping public policy.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
You know that could be with elected officials, that could be.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
In the courtrooms, et cetera, that are championing equity for
black and brown families. And my understanding is that this
is the work that you're doing with your daughter. So
talk a little bit more about kind of the broader
scope of the work that you do in that regard.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Well, definitely, we see black women, as you said, whether
they are in elected office, if they are leading nonprofit organizations,
leading civil rights organizations, social justice organizations. You know, we
are just out there organizing on the streets, you know,
whether it's marches or protests. Black women are doing our part.
(13:39):
I think, to one we call it save our democracy
and to continue to highlight the issues, the disparities, the
equity issues that plague our community. My daughters, you know,
grew up in a household where they watch me and
their father work on these kinds of issues, through our
civil rights law practice, through the nonprofit work that we
(14:01):
got involved with, through the political activism that was so
much apart and continues to be a part of our lives. So, Uh,
they understood very early on that to who much is given,
much is expected. They worked as little kids in the
nonprofit volunteering, uh, you know, learning about how to run
a nonprofit. They worked in our law firm, learning entrepreneurship
(14:24):
and just appreciating that.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
They have a unique place uh in this world because
of the work that we have done as parents, but
that that that unique place also comes with a lot
of responsibility. And that responsibility is to you know, use
the skills, the talents, the degrees, the platforms that they have,
UH to pay it to pay it forward. And that
(14:49):
has been you know, that's my message. I mentor a
lot of women and some men, but mostly young women
who are either starting out in their careers, uh, those
who or trying to figure out what that career path
looks like for them. And one of the things I
always tell them is, you know, it's not just about
you or you know what you do to grow your
(15:10):
own assets, your own investments, you know, your own bank account,
but what are you going to do in this world
that helps someone that is less fortunate than you, or
someone that doesn't have the access and the privilege. You know,
I'm doing this interview as I am visiting friends spending
a week on the island Martha's Vineyard, and you know,
(15:32):
this is August, so you know what Martha's Vineyard looks
like in August, and so having conversations with black folks
from around the country, you know, predominantly East Coasters, New Yorkers,
folks in Washington, d C. And other parts of the
East Coast, but really talking about where we are in
this country, you know, from a political standpoint, and the
work that we have to do, and how those of
(15:55):
us who you know again have the good fortune to
be on this island at this time, you know what
our responsibility is to be at the forefront of the
movements that are going to really be consequential to black folks.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Sure, I saw some big names out there alongside your name,
so I know that you're you. You all power players
are doing what you do best, which is be our
collective north star in terms of you know, folks in
(16:29):
this country, which also brings me kounted to the second
part of what I wanted to ask you, And I
was thinking about this yesterday on this show. My co
host Q and I we both we take our activism
on the road. We travel the country. We work with
(16:50):
the legacy civil rights orgs that you mentioned.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
And more.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
You know, we were with Mark Morial in Cleveland not
too long ago, in Baltimore this was months ago, but
with the NCNW National Council for Negro Women WI shabon
our line Bradley and you know, and the whole bit.
And one of the things that we've said whenever we
(17:18):
have a microphone in an audience, particularly since the last election.
But this is a statement that we've long affirmed to
be true on this program, is that black women are
as close to God as we can be on this earth.
It's something that we believe, and we can make a
moral and a scientific argument to that end. And so
(17:41):
when I say that black women are our north star,
and I kind of give you those flowers as it were,
we really mean that, and we really kind of get
behind that effort and hopefully compel other folks to rewire
their thinking. We don't think enough folks we're able to
see during the last election exactly what we were trying
(18:02):
to say now in terms of black women sort of
leading the charge, coming up with the strategies, you know,
leading the fight, at least at present. I know that
there's a lot of things that we are still learning
from black women, and you being one of those women
(18:22):
who is leading that charge and coming up with the
policies and kind of showing us what needs to be done.
You do it from a national stage, and the rest
of us do it in our local communities. Talk to
us a bit about confronting systemic bias in other areas.
I don't want to switch gears too far, so I
still want to talk about disability policy, but also let's
(18:44):
expand a little bit to you know, housing, education, etc.
What is it that we should know about again confronting
systemic biases and systemic I guess, disenfranchisement in other areas
of our lives.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
I think the most important thing to know is that
we can never stop. We can't give up. Even in
this time that looks like all the work that we
have done, all the work that our ancestors have done,
seems to be in jeopardy. I think that should fuel us,
rather than discourage us. We should figure out ways. All
of us have an obligation to be thinking about how
(19:22):
we work harder and run faster, rather than retreating and
retrenching and allowing those that are in power, the powers
that be, to discourage us or to make us cower.
Because the systemic biases that we confront today are nothing,
nothing like that which our ancestors face, you know, thirty
(19:44):
forty fifty years ago. And think about all the tools,
all the resources, all the strategies, all that we have
at our disposal to confront those biases that it is
so much more than what they had. So you think
about the tools that they had in the nineteen fifties
and the sixties to confront those racial biases. You know,
they didn't have the benefit of podcasts and Instagram and TikTok.
(20:07):
They didn't have the benefit of being able to freely
gather in a place like Martha's vineyard and to talk openly,
and to confront openly an administration that is hostile to
African Americans. They didn't have the freedom to, you know,
raise our voices in the way that we do without
suffering repercussions, in the way that we saw, you know,
(20:30):
our ancestors, juice. I don't think we can have a
lose sight of that. We have to continue to push forward,
even though it may be uncomfortable, even though in this
moment it may feel like we're not making the kind
of progress that we would like to make. I think,
and I continue to encourage folks, don't stop doing the
work even if it looks like we're not making progress.
Incremental progress. The building, the foundation, building, the preparation, the strategizing,
(20:54):
all of that is so critical to you know, launching.
We may not be able to launch in a way
that we want to launch in this moment. But the
pendulum that has swung from George Floyd back to Donald
Trump will swing again, and the question is will we
be ready, will we be able to confront and you know,
to deliver, because ultimately, as you just said, whether it's
(21:15):
it's it's black women, black people that are going to
I believe save this country from itself, we always have.
We've always you know, answered the charge. We've always stood strong,
We've always been resilient and been ready, willing and able
to take on the fight. And so here we are again.
(21:37):
So as difficult as it may seem, I'm encouraged. I'm
encouraged by the voices that I see around the country
who are standing strong and who are fighting.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Yeah. Yeah, and I appreciate that I am. We have different.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Folks on the show with different ideas of what the
present holds and what the future might hold. And had
a recent conversation with a brilliant economic mind who is
you know, widely celebrated in this country, and he had
a perspective that felt a little bleak, and he was saying, Hey,
(22:22):
you know what, nobody's coming to save us we need
to focus on getting our money together right. And I
understand the point that he was trying to make, but
for a lot of people that is easier said than done,
and for a lot of people, I think it misses
the nature of.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
You know, their nature.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
You know, some people pursue happiness, some people pursue spiritual fulfillment,
some people pursue other things besides money. Money is absolutely important,
and I think that what you're saying today really speaks
to more humans, more homo sapien safepions than those who
are purely motivated by fiscal interests. Another thing that I
(23:06):
say often, and I'd love your thoughts here, is that
on the scale of a country, things move very slowly.
So it is very easy for people to become disheartened
when they look back at the past four years, or
when they look ahead at the next four years, or
(23:27):
become disheartened if they see kind of on the scale
of a lifetime where things started versus where things are,
and project out into the future where things might be.
But when you take a step further back and you
look at the timeline of a country, which exists a
lot longer than a lifetime, in most cases, you do
(23:48):
see progress. You see two steps forward, you see one
step back. And the two steps forward might be one
hundred years worth of steps forward and the step back
might be fifty years right, But overall, think that further
makes your point. So again, I wanted to get your
thoughts there, because these are just things that I share
with my listeners, but obviously we want to get your
insight someone who has so much additional perspective to add.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Well, I'm glad you brought off the issue of money,
because you know, different folks have different relationships with money,
and obviously money is important. And obviously, whether you're running
a political campaign or a nonprofit organization or think tank,
at the end of the day, you need money to
build infrastructure, to you know, launch a campaign. So I
(24:37):
don't want to minimize the importance of money. But obviously
everybody is not going to be in the pursuit of money,
as you just said, the way some folks are. And
I think when we look about when we look at
what we have to do, the task is so enormous
and the need for everybody to be a part and
to have all hands on deck is so great. Everybody
(24:59):
plays a role. Not everybody is going to be an investor.
Not everybody's going to be an entrepreneur. They're going to
be academics, they're going to be scholars, they're going to
be folks that work in the media. They're going to
be anthropologists, sociologists, lawyers, you know, scientists. So I don't
think we should be minimizing the importance of the roles
that all of us have to play and respect the
(25:21):
different lanes that everyone is in now. You know, one
of the critiques we often hear of the civil rights
movement is that there wasn't enough emphasis on economic empowerment,
on you know, on finances and on building generational wealth.
And there are folks, you know, economists, investors, finance folks,
banking folks, a lot of them on the island this week,
(25:42):
this month who are doing just that, having conversations about
the state of Black America from a financial standpoint. How
do we increase home ownership amongst black folks? How do we,
you know, get more blacks to start businesses? How do
we get more blacks to think about you know, generational
wealth once those businesses are built, you know, transferring those
(26:04):
businesses to the next generation. How do we get more
blacks investing in tech in you know, the AI Revolution.
So those kinds of conversations are happening, and there are
people obviously not enough, but you know, the conversations to
encourage more black folks to be in those spaces are happening.
But you know, we can walk and chew gum at
(26:24):
the same time. So as those conversations are happening, you
know other conversations policy conversations. So Kimberly Crenshaw, you know,
noted academic scholar, she convened attorneys general from around the country.
She had about four or five in a conversation about
their role, how they were using the legal process filing
lawsuits against the current administration to challenge some of these
(26:50):
cool and harsh policies that we see, particularly around immigration,
we see around education and healthcare. So I just think
we're a great, big ten and everybody can play a
role as we try to advance you know, the causes
of black people.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Sure, sure, And if I may, I want to add
a note here for folks that might take that to
heart that during the Civil rights movement, you know, we
weren't paying enough attention to economics. My understanding of that
moment in time.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Is that.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
It was there was a sort of critical process in place.
We had to deal with the social issues in order
to deal with the economic issues. And it was right
around the time when doctor King's focus started to shift.
You'd accomplished some great things and this focus started to
shift to money. And when you have a money conversation,
you have a lot of poor people that can come
to the table and have that conversation. And indeed, that
(27:52):
was why he was in Memphis, and that was around
the time when he was or that was the time
when he was assassinated. And so I don't want to
knock our ancestors having led the charge. I think they
just had a critical process and by the time they
got to the point to have a conversation about money,
there were enough people that were You know, it's one
(28:15):
thing to share a water fountain with you and to
sit down and across the diner and you can eat
at the same diners. Me it's another thing to come
for my money, to come for the war that was
taking place at the time. So I just I don't
I don't want to. I want to make sure that
people have a little bit more context there. But yes,
indeed there were some people that you know and duly
noted that the economics of that time weren't yet a
(28:35):
part of the conversation.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
I think that's probably the best way to frame that.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
So no, I mean, I just want to say this,
and what I say to those folks who are critical
of the civil rights leaders who believe that, you know,
they kind of dropped the ball when it came to
the issue of money and finances is, you know, justice
and equality were never going to be one in one generation,
so they could not do everything thing. They paid the
(29:00):
way they opened the door, and then each successive uh,
you know generation has an obligation to take the baton
and move it forward. So I'm not about critiquing what
those leaders did, because it's nothing short of miraculous what
they did. And now the question we should all be
asking ourselves is what are we doing to move the
(29:21):
baton further? So if we believe that there was something
left out of that process in the fifties or sixties,
the question should be, how are we making sure that
we are stepping in that gap, filling that void and
moving the you know, the conversation the issue of justice
and equality, you know, further to the you know that
we are doing our part in terms of advancing this work,
(29:45):
because it's easy to critique and point the fingers at
what someone else didn't do, but it's a whole lot
harder to roll up your sleeves and make the kind
of sacrifices that we know that those leaders may uh
to continue to do this work.
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New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!