July 1, 2025 • 31 mins
On Part 1 of today's podcast, Amy Owen aka "The Pineapple Lawyer" the Supreme Court's decision giving Donald Trump more power
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Broadcasting from the Civic Cipher Studios. Welcome to the QR Code,
where we share perspective, seek understanding, and shape outcomes. He
is the one and only, the incredible.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Q Ward, so he's talking about himself. I just work here,
but that's Ramsey's.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Job and we are happy to be back on your
radios again. And today's going.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
To be a special episode.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
I want you to stick around because later in the
show we are going to be having a conversation about happiness.
Does more money lead to more happiness? Well, i'll spoil
ittle bit for you, but the answer is both yes
and no, and we're going to get into those weeds.
We're also going to be talking about some more black
(00:46):
conservative type of talking points. I guess speech coming from Nelly,
the one and only rapper of Country Grammar fame. But
this part of the show, we are going to be
speaking to a dear friend of ours. She goes by
the name of Amy Owen, better known on social media
(01:07):
as Pineapple Lawyer, and she's in the studio with us today,
So welcome.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
To the show.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
Thank you so much, Ramsies.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
And for those that don't know, she has worked major
civil rights cases alongside Ben Crump, who's also a friend
of the show, and I've been texting him, so he's
gonna come on.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
He's a busy guy, busy busy guy, especially now.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
But Amy's also known for working alongside professional athletes, celebrities,
and other high profile individuals. And you can find her
online at Pineapple Lawyer. And we are going to be
having a conversation about some recent developments with the Trump
administration and some powers that are bestowed upon him by
the Supreme Court and the Supreme Courts, I guess, limiting
(01:50):
of powers elsewhere in the judicial branch, and the implications
of all that. So we have all of that and
so much more to stick around for, so we hope
that you do. But before we get too far beyond
where we need to be, it's time for a feel
good feature. So today's feel good feature comes from ABC
News and I will share a historic billion dollar donation
(02:11):
to a medical school in New York City has provided
students with free tuition moving forward. Albert Einstein College of
Medicine and the Bronx received one billion dollars in donations
from doctor Ruth Goatsman. I believe that's on Or Gotsman,
one of the two former professor and share of the
school's board of trustees. The institution announced in a press
(02:31):
release on Monday. The massive donation a transformational gift, the
school said, is among the largest ever made to a
university in the United States and seemingly the largest made
to an American medical school.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
According to the institution, the.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
One billion dollar donation will ensure that no student at
Einstein will ever have to pay tuition again. Doctor Philip Uza,
president and CEO of Montefore Einstein, the umbrella organization for
Albert Einstein College of Medicine and Montefior Health System, said
in the announcement. Sorry, these are new sounds I'm having
(03:08):
to make with my mouth. All current fourth year students
will be and reimbursed for their Spring twenty twenty four
semester tuition, and beginning at the start of the next term,
all students moving forward, we'll receive free tuition at Albert
Einstein College of Medicine.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
The school said.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Tuition and fees for one year at the medical school
total over sixty three thousand dollars, and more than half
the medical students owe upwards of two hundred thousand dollars
and student that after graduating. The Albert Einstein College of
Medicine says on its website, almost half the students are
New Yorker's and nearly sixty percent of students at the
university are women, according to the institution. So that feel
positive and we'll take positive where we can get it
(03:44):
around here. Choose the one that sent this over anything
to add here to you.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
It's good to have something good to talk about, yeah,
because it's real easy right now to get bogged down
on very stressful discouraging and just outrite negative stories. So
I'm glad that we even have a feature on some
something that's good.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Absolutely, Okay, Amy Owen, We've had many conversations, and uh,
we appreciate you taking the time to come back and
talk to us again. Usually for folks that are just
kind of coming to the table, you know, when it
comes time to kind of make heads or tails of
the judicial system or criminal proceedings or lawsuits or whatever.
(04:25):
Amy's the person that we go we talked to.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
So that is my world. Yes, it's a very convoluent changing.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Let's do this.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Introduce yourself. I know I give a brief introduction, but
introduce yourself. To our listeners. Make sure everybody knows who
you are, and remind them where to find you, because
I know that your social media is super popping right now.
On behase its Internet, as you say, but also let's
let the folks know who they're going to be hearing
from today.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Sure.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
So my real name is Amy Owen, but my nickname
is Pineapple Lawyer. I'm known in my community as Pineapple
Lawyer because it's easy to remember. I handle civil rights
and personal injury for anyone, really, but I do specialize
in celebrities, athletes, people who are a little bit more
high profile oftentimes hire me because I have some ins
(05:15):
and outs with that world based on my past, and
I love helping people in general. So people can find
me on Pineapple Lawyer, on Instagram, TikTok, all of those platforms,
it's Pineapple Lawyer. My actual website is www dot amyowenlaw
dot com, but I think if you put in Pineapple
(05:37):
Lawyer at populate that as well. But yeah, I just
love coming on here. I love talking to you and
Q about relevant issues. I love being your legal go to.
I'll get a text message from you and I'm always
like it's going to be something good from RAMSES and
Q and Civic Cipher and all the different platforms that
(05:57):
you have. So thank you so much for having me on.
I'm so proud of the work that you guys are doing.
It's so necessarily especially right now, it's like really really needed.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
So yeah, yeah, Well, speaking of which, I'll kick us
off Q.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
So over the weekend, a lot of headlines about the
latest developments with respect to the Supreme Court's decisions, and
first off it talk to us a little bit about
that and what you make of it or what you've
made of it so far.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Sure.
Speaker 5 (06:31):
So.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
In law school, one of my favorite subjects was constitutional law.
That's where you learn about the different branches of government,
the presidential branch, the Congress, and the judicial branch of course,
the Supreme Court. And what's really interesting is the interplay
between those three branches of government. So it's very important
(06:55):
to know that the Supreme Court is probably the most
powerful aspect of the government because they're the ones who
make sure that the Constitution is read, interpreted, and followed
by the courts of law, by the States, or by
the country in general as a whole. Right, So this
(07:18):
decision coming down that kind of takes away some of
the power of the Supreme Court is very frightening, and
it's frightening especially to I think people who are involved
in the legal profession, like myself, because we want the
consistency of having checks and balances in place for the
(07:38):
different branches of government, and I think this is eroding
that and it's scary, Like, we don't want it to
turn into a dictatorship. We don't want one branch of
the government to be so omnipotent that it can squash
the jobs of the other parts of the government. And
I feel like this is inching towards that, and it's
(07:59):
very scary.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Cute your thoughts.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
You know, a lot of people, when we kind of
saw what was coming and started to try to ring
the alarm bills, always assumed that checks and balances would
save us.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Like, yeah, sure, the.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Dude is, you know, a bully, and you know there's
all these red flags about him and all the things
that he's promising that he's going to do to harm people.
But there's checks and balances in this country, and one
person can't just decide to do whatever they want to do, right,
there's guardrails, there's these systems in place, these age old
systems that have always been in place. And what you
(08:38):
and I recognize and try to explain to people is
this is not politics as usual. And as we see
this guy rigging everything and really setting things up so
that he controls every lever of government, you kind of
saw these things coming and even before he was re elected,
you know, conversations about immunity to the president by justices
(09:02):
that he put in place or that were pro him.
We saw that those things were being put in place
for times like this so that eventually all power would
be consolidated to the executive branch. It's a terrifying reality
for me. I'm giving you guys the most calm version
of myself. You know, there's nice where I don't sleep
(09:22):
because I know what people that look like us are
going through. I've been very very outspoken about what life
is like for my family personally. Now, Rams and I
have a video of having that conversation that has gone
viral a lot of support, but also a lot of
people who are like, you know, you guys should have
done it the right way. Those people assuming that me
(09:44):
and my family are not citizens is the funny part.
It was never about legality or documentation. It was that
when you look like us and you speak the language
that my children speak, you become a target for an
administration that does not care about legality or documents or paperwork.
This is a really hate forward administration. And as you
(10:05):
would notice if you're watching the news or reading the headlines,
they're not cracking down on criminal enterprises. They're showing up
at immigration hearings and showing up at you know, people's
workplaces and hospitals and courthouses and terrorizing people, and knowing
that the protections that have always existed to stand in
(10:26):
the way of people like this doing very unlawful and
unconstitutional things to people, that those protections are just kind
of melting away. It's a really, really uncomfortable and scary
time for our country right now.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
I agree with you, Q, it's awful.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Well, so let's talk about the actual Supreme Court decision.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
So, the outcome in short from the most recent Supreme
Court session, I guess is what they would call it.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
I'm not so familiar with the language that they use.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
But the outcome in short states that federal judges lack
the authority to grant nationwide injunctions and so so correct
me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
But there are federal.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Judges in the states, right, But they're federal judges, So
there'll be federal judges in Colorado or Connecticut or whatever.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Correct their district they're they're disfigured out by they're by
regions and things like that.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
So these judges have been are their courtrooms, I guess,
is where a lot of lawsuits have been filed. Two
stop the Trump administrations many endeavors into fundamentally changing the
culture of the United States of America with his what
(11:54):
are those things that you sign on the first day
of office? What are they called?
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Or I'm the new president executive orders? Right, So.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
People would file lawsuits in these lower courts in Colorado
and Connecticut those places, and it would prevent Donald Trump
from implementing his executive vorders because they would halt his proceedings.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
While it was tied up in the court. Right. That's
my understanding so far.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
And the Supreme Court says that those federal judges now
lack the authority to grant nationwide injunctions, meaning that that
is no longer a viable I guess course of action
for guming up the Trump administration for folks that feel
(12:45):
like this is a hostile government. So, first question is
do I have that right? And second question is how
scary is that? Is there any other recourse beyond that?
Is there any legal mechanism that still exists to push
back against that.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Well, the way that the court systems are designed is
that states still have their sovereign immunity, right or they're
a state has their ability to make laws, and then
the federal judges in the federal system is over the
whole country and then it trickles into the states.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
So now with the recent Supreme Court ruling, it's saying
that these federal judges can't make decisions that would affect
the nation as a whole.
Speaker 5 (13:31):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
As far as the injunctions, an injunction is just a
fancy word for stopping something, for forcing the Trump administration
not to do certain things.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
So Donald Trump is really really happy about this ruling
because it gives him a lot more power. He doesn't
have judges now checking him on the lower levels, right,
because he's got the Supreme Court pretty much in his
pocket because there's so many conservatives that he appointed. As
said earlier, but in the federal judge bench, there's you know,
(14:05):
a lot more diversity. There's a harder path for him
to just take over. So with this ruling, it makes
it impossible for the I won't say impossible, nothing's ever impossible,
but it makes it harder for these federal judges to
make decisions that would affect the country as a whole.
So it's yet to be seen exactly how this is
(14:27):
going to play out. It's still a little murky. I
think that these rulings come down and even as a lawyer,
I read some of these articles because I haven't seen
the actual court decision in full yet, and I say,
where are they coming up with this stuff? And I
feel like the justices are so hell bent on getting
(14:50):
their agenda across that they kind of, in my opinion,
just go along with whatever Trump is kind of pushing
or whatever they think is leaning towards their political viewpoint,
instead of actually looking at the constitution, looking at what
is best for the country and what is actually legal
(15:11):
and correct. They're just popping off in a way. And
it's amazing that people in such a high office would
even take the Constitution so lightly and just bend at
the whim of what I think is kind of a
dictatorship in the making. So did that answer your question?
Speaker 3 (15:33):
I think so. I was looking for a modicum of
hope there, but.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
Not something I guess a little bit of hope is that,
you know, it's yet to be seen exactly what will happen,
And the Supreme Court does hold a lot of power,
so for them to say, you know, it's kind of
like slapping down the power of the other federal judges
in the system, because you know, it's a tiered system.
Of course, the Supreme Court is the highest, and then
(15:59):
the federal system is right under that, and then the
state system is under that. So it's not necessarily looking
great for us to come out as not conservative, right
wing people with things that are making sense or going
(16:21):
to help, like what Q was talking about his family
and their situation and living in this country. It's kind
of going to start moving towards Trump getting to do
what he wants to do. But I have faith in
the fact that there are still good people who hopefully
will stand up if it gets to that point. Every
(16:44):
so often we do see every Republican leader come forward
and say, hey, that's not right. Let's just hope and
pray that that happens here. I guess sure, sure.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Okay, that's not nothing. Que I know you had a
few questions.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Well, I don't have a few questions. Actually my problem
is I think we're all kind of looking for hope,
and I feel dishonest and trying to give that to people.
It doesn't feel very hopeful.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
I don't. I don't.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
I think we've always had this resiliency collectively, you know,
even the nature of our relationship with you know, our
favorite lawyer in the world who helped us establish a
nonprofit and helped us, helped us contribute defeating two and
a half million people with hashtag lunchbag with living through
giving shout out to aj I love that, you know,
(17:37):
in eighty cities around the world, all at the same time.
We all got out of bed on Sunday mornings. Some
of us missed church, A lot of people missed America's
real religion, which is football, and we got food together
and water and toiletries and things for people who are
less fortunate. And we did that as a collective around
the world, you know, even having involvement from the United Nations.
(18:01):
So the nature of our relationship has always been trying
to find that light and share it with people, people
who might have lost hope or who might be living
in conditions that seem like there's no repair, or like
there's no coming back, or like things won't get better.
We've kind of perpetually been those people to remind people, hey,
everything's going to be okay, and not thinking about trying
(18:23):
to change the world holistically all at once, but changing
the world for individual people one at a time. We
were committed to that, and we have been for a
long time, so we've always been able to, without even hesitating,
remind people that, hey, where we're at right now is
not where we'll always be, and things can and will
get better. Except I don't feel that way, so I
(18:44):
can't pretend to. It's really hard to talk about these
things because on election Day, as soon as it was
very very clear to me, and it was very early
in the evening when I realized we're not.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Going to win this thing.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
And I still have my opinions on how or why
that's the case, because not winning. When we were there,
we were outside, we were at the rallies, we were
all around the country, and we saw the excitement, we
saw the momentum. I still don't think things were above
board with that, but that's another show. In another conversation.
The reason why I was so sad as I watched
what I knew was going to be the result play
(19:18):
out is because I foresaw all these things that are happening.
Like It's not like we weren't sure they were going
to happen. Every negative, hateful promise that was made as
being upheld. And he started from day one, as Ramsess
would say, with muscle velocity, executive order after executive order
and not even pretending because right now on this big
beautiful bill, they're trying to hide bad things in the
(19:40):
bill but pretending that they're to the benefit of someone.
That first week of executive orders, they didn't even hide
anything and anything good. They didn't pretend they were doing
anything for anyone. Every order was taking something away from someone,
some protection, some right, some social benefits, some piece of
health care adminis, some access to education, some access to
(20:02):
capital funding. Like, all they've done is strip things away.
And what we've noticed is there are no roadblocks, there's
no emergency break, there are no systems in place to
protect us. No one's coming to help us. It sounds
like doom and gloom until you realize its reality, like
what we're seeing happen on video, on TV, on social
media every day to people who don't have anybody that
(20:23):
can stand up for them, who can't stop what's happening,
And you're there essentially empowering regular people to show up
and pretend to be there on behalf of the government
and just seeing essentially how long will people let us
do what we want? You know, the only positive possibility
I see is mass uprising by people who are just
(20:46):
tired of being bullied around and keep about taking away.
But short of that, like what do I can't even
pretend to have any hope. And I'm listening to my
sister over there, who is well versed in law, who
has helped us so many different ways, not just you know,
her areas of expertise, but she's helped us partner with
people to learn more about things that she's not an
(21:07):
expert on because she knows who to put us in
the same room with her, who in a text thread
or an email chain. So she's always been that legal
voice for us. And I know that the work that
she does right now is incredibly frustrating because the entire
career that she's built has been on the basis of
protecting these documents that they're shredding up and throwing in
the trash. So it's very difficult for me to have
(21:28):
that glimmer of hope or to even ask questions because
I'm at this point now it's like, for so long
as what can we do? And I'm like, day by day,
day by day realizing nothing. Well, that the worst things
don't happen is what it feels like.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
But maybe the glimmer of hope could be always keep
your cell phone record. They have the new meta glasses
that are sunglasses and you can with the click of
a button, you can start recording record people doing these things,
record people doing horrific racist things, and hope that you
can get a hold of someone who can hold their
(22:08):
feet to the fire. Everything's not stripped away. I tell
everyone use the technology that we have to call out people,
because even if it's the court of public opinion that counts,
that counts, Like if we can't win against a company
for being racist or something, we can still boycott. Right,
(22:32):
We've shown that we have the power to boycott certain businesses.
Look at Target, they're taking massive hits to their profits,
and so you always have to have your technology in
your hand or accessible so that if something awful starts happening,
you hit that record button and then you can share
(22:54):
it on your social media. You can make things go viral.
Like Q said, he had a video that went viral
that is still available to every single person, and most
people do have access to a cell phone with a camera.
So I know it's bleak, but I think that is
the biggest tool that.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
We have right now.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
And while we're here, just I'm gonna share a piece
of advice that you shared with me with our listeners,
you know, for folks that do end up you know,
because you know, I think that a lot of our
work started out just being very anti We were anti
the way policing was done. I don't want to say
we're anti police. I don't think we're ever anti police,
(23:34):
but not a big fans of the way policing was done.
And you know a piece of advice that once upon
a time you shared with me that recently I posted
on my social media and I saw you in the comments,
was that if you end up in trouble with the police,
you don't have to talk to them, and it's probably
smarter that you don't, so a couple things to keep
in mind, of course, Amy, We're going to keep this
(23:55):
conversation going as things continue to develop.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
Mark Morio here, CEO of the National Urban League, And
on Thursday, July seventeenth, I'll be live in Cleveland at
our national conference with Tony Coles, president of the Black
Information Network. It's called Black America Speaks, and it's exactly
what it sounds like. We'll tackle pressing issues economic inequality,
health disparities, voter suppression, and dismanling of our democratic institutions.
(24:20):
You must be a part of this conversation. Join us
in Cleveland. To register, go to NUF conference dot on.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Hey, what's up.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
This is Ramsy's job and I am q Ward and
we're inviting you to subscribe to Civic Cipher, our weekly
social justice podcast right here in the app.
Speaker 6 (24:37):
We pride ourselves on creating a show that fusters allyship,
empathy and understanding, all the while conducting journalistically credible research
featuring influential, noteworthy guests, and empowering historically marginalized communities.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
The African proverb breeds if you want to go far,
go together. So we are asking you to search for
and subscribe to Civic Cipher. That's Civic cip h e
er right here.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
In the app.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Now it is time for us to shift gears, and
we're gonna talk about folks who better do better. This
from the Black Information Network. Texas Representative Jasmin Crockett question
first Lady Malania Trump receiving an Einstein visa, saying the
math ain't math in on how she was eligible for
a visa meant for those who are extraordinary in academics, athletics,
(25:21):
and other fields. Crockett issued her critique of Trump's Einstein
visa during a house hearing on Wednesday. Quote, let me
remind y'all that Milania the first lady a model. And
when I say model, I'm not talking about Tyra Banks,
Cindy Crawford, or Naomi Campbell level applied for and was
given an eb one visa. And what that stands for
(25:43):
is an Einstein visa. Now, y'all that don't know, let
me tell you how to receive an Einstein visa. You're
supposed to have some sort of significant achievement, like being
awarded a Nobel Peace Pride or a Pulitzer, or being
an Olympic medallist, or having other sustained extraordinary abilities and
success in sciences, arts, education, business, or athletics. Last time
(26:06):
I checked, the first lady had none of these accolades
under her belt. It doesn't take in Einstein to see
that the math ain't math in here. Crockett's comments come
amid the administration's immigration crackdown. According to the Washington Post,
Trump was given a green card through the EB one
program in two thousand and one. The program has been
(26:27):
used by academic researchers and multinational business executives, along with
those who have demonstrated quote sustained national and international acclaim.
According to the Post, Okay, so I think that, you know,
as we're talking about sort of who better do better
(26:48):
really the entirety of the immigration system. I mean, it's
fair to say that we know that money makes the
world go around. People that have money, people that have
access to powerful friends, all that sort of can grease
the gears and get through society and navigate the stratification
of a society or the societal framework or whatever. So
(27:11):
I don't think that the issue here is that Milania
Trump had access to citizenship or legal status in this country.
I think the issue is that many people don't. So
it's not like we're necessarily or Jasmine I don't want
to speak for Jazmin Crockett, but it doesn't feel like
(27:32):
Jasmincrocket is mad at Milania. Rather she's calling out the
privilege that Milania has. But there are other people who
actually do contribute to society in meaningful ways, well beyond
Milania Trump, that might not even qualify for a Einstein visa,
but they qualify for a normal visa, and when their
(27:53):
visa expires or whatever their story is, there's just no
mechanism in place. No one sings their success stories. Rather,
they've been villainized by indeed Mlania's husband's administration. And many
of these people are decent folks, well meaning folks. Most
(28:14):
of the people that have been rounded up in the
iceraates had no criminal record or anything like that. And
I'm sure Q you can speak more to this, but
I know that this is something that is a little
bit more consuming in your world than for most folks.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Well, I have direct experience with applying for and receiving
the what used to be referred to as the alien
with extraordinary ability visa the EB one or the O one,
which you know my ex wife was granted because she
was a billboard topping artist. I don't think Malania has
done such a thing. I think that's kind of the point.
(28:49):
It's not beef with her, just like it's not beef
with white people. When we call out the way law
enforcement unfairly treats black people, we're not saying treat them
worse or deny Milania access.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Is treat us better and give us access.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Like sitting on top of a throne of privilege, pointing
out all the things that you think are wrong as
you benefit from that same privilege. The hypocrisy is very
very loud. You know, you Chung Wan getting rid of
birthright citizenship for a person whose parents were immigrants, whose
wives are immigrants, and whose children are anchor babies, Like
the hypocrisy is so loud, like you want to get
(29:26):
rid of all these protections that you also benefit from
because you know you don't need them, because you're circumventing law,
circumventing due process, and circumventing the constitution. So that party
has kind of adopted that position that things are only
good if they benefit us. If anybody else benefits from them,
then they're no good at all.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
And I think there's something to be said too about
Elon Musk.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Now I'm not going to pretend to know his like
immigration status or his immigration story than one of his parents,
but I do recall there being some chatter about Elon
Musk's citizenship and his story as he came to this country.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
And again, it's one of those things where.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
You know, nobody's saying that these exceptional individuals, or these
connected individuals or people with money should not have access to,
you know, a legal path to citizenship or to you know,
documentation or whatever. But I think that the fact that
it's so hard for so many people, it's such a long,
(30:33):
tedious process, and then the process switches every four years
because there's a new administration, which causes all these people
are trying to do it the right way to start
back at zero. To then have these people who are
indeed trying to do this the right way under an
administration where hypocrisy kind of seems to be central to
it all, to then go into judicial hearings and snatch
(30:57):
people who are not yet citizens but working on it
feels and those people better, do better,
Broadcasting from the Civic Cipher Studios. Welcome to the QR Code,
where we share perspective, seek understanding, and shape outcomes. He
is the one and only, the incredible.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Q Ward, so he's talking about himself. I just work here,
but that's Ramsey's.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Job and we are happy to be back on your
radios again. And today's going.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
To be a special episode.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
I want you to stick around because later in the
show we are going to be having a conversation about happiness.
Does more money lead to more happiness? Well, i'll spoil
ittle bit for you, but the answer is both yes
and no, and we're going to get into those weeds.
We're also going to be talking about some more black
(00:46):
conservative type of talking points. I guess speech coming from Nelly,
the one and only rapper of Country Grammar fame. But
this part of the show, we are going to be
speaking to a dear friend of ours. She goes by
the name of Amy Owen, better known on social media
(01:07):
as Pineapple Lawyer, and she's in the studio with us today,
So welcome.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
To the show.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
Thank you so much, Ramsies.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
And for those that don't know, she has worked major
civil rights cases alongside Ben Crump, who's also a friend
of the show, and I've been texting him, so he's
gonna come on.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
He's a busy guy, busy busy guy, especially now.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
But Amy's also known for working alongside professional athletes, celebrities,
and other high profile individuals. And you can find her
online at Pineapple Lawyer. And we are going to be
having a conversation about some recent developments with the Trump
administration and some powers that are bestowed upon him by
the Supreme Court and the Supreme Courts, I guess, limiting
(01:50):
of powers elsewhere in the judicial branch, and the implications
of all that. So we have all of that and
so much more to stick around for, so we hope
that you do. But before we get too far beyond
where we need to be, it's time for a feel
good feature. So today's feel good feature comes from ABC
News and I will share a historic billion dollar donation
(02:11):
to a medical school in New York City has provided
students with free tuition moving forward. Albert Einstein College of
Medicine and the Bronx received one billion dollars in donations
from doctor Ruth Goatsman. I believe that's on Or Gotsman,
one of the two former professor and share of the
school's board of trustees. The institution announced in a press
(02:31):
release on Monday. The massive donation a transformational gift, the
school said, is among the largest ever made to a
university in the United States and seemingly the largest made
to an American medical school.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
According to the institution, the.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
One billion dollar donation will ensure that no student at
Einstein will ever have to pay tuition again. Doctor Philip Uza,
president and CEO of Montefore Einstein, the umbrella organization for
Albert Einstein College of Medicine and Montefior Health System, said
in the announcement. Sorry, these are new sounds I'm having
(03:08):
to make with my mouth. All current fourth year students
will be and reimbursed for their Spring twenty twenty four
semester tuition, and beginning at the start of the next term,
all students moving forward, we'll receive free tuition at Albert
Einstein College of Medicine.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
The school said.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Tuition and fees for one year at the medical school
total over sixty three thousand dollars, and more than half
the medical students owe upwards of two hundred thousand dollars
and student that after graduating. The Albert Einstein College of
Medicine says on its website, almost half the students are
New Yorker's and nearly sixty percent of students at the
university are women, according to the institution. So that feel
positive and we'll take positive where we can get it
(03:44):
around here. Choose the one that sent this over anything
to add here to you.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
It's good to have something good to talk about, yeah,
because it's real easy right now to get bogged down
on very stressful discouraging and just outrite negative stories. So
I'm glad that we even have a feature on some
something that's good.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Absolutely, Okay, Amy Owen, We've had many conversations, and uh,
we appreciate you taking the time to come back and
talk to us again. Usually for folks that are just
kind of coming to the table, you know, when it
comes time to kind of make heads or tails of
the judicial system or criminal proceedings or lawsuits or whatever.
(04:25):
Amy's the person that we go we talked to.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
So that is my world. Yes, it's a very convoluent changing.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Let's do this.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Introduce yourself. I know I give a brief introduction, but
introduce yourself. To our listeners. Make sure everybody knows who
you are, and remind them where to find you, because
I know that your social media is super popping right now.
On behase its Internet, as you say, but also let's
let the folks know who they're going to be hearing
from today.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Sure.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
So my real name is Amy Owen, but my nickname
is Pineapple Lawyer. I'm known in my community as Pineapple
Lawyer because it's easy to remember. I handle civil rights
and personal injury for anyone, really, but I do specialize
in celebrities, athletes, people who are a little bit more
high profile oftentimes hire me because I have some ins
(05:15):
and outs with that world based on my past, and
I love helping people in general. So people can find
me on Pineapple Lawyer, on Instagram, TikTok, all of those platforms,
it's Pineapple Lawyer. My actual website is www dot amyowenlaw
dot com, but I think if you put in Pineapple
(05:37):
Lawyer at populate that as well. But yeah, I just
love coming on here. I love talking to you and
Q about relevant issues. I love being your legal go to.
I'll get a text message from you and I'm always
like it's going to be something good from RAMSES and
Q and Civic Cipher and all the different platforms that
(05:57):
you have. So thank you so much for having me on.
I'm so proud of the work that you guys are doing.
It's so necessarily especially right now, it's like really really needed.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
So yeah, yeah, Well, speaking of which, I'll kick us
off Q.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
So over the weekend, a lot of headlines about the
latest developments with respect to the Supreme Court's decisions, and
first off it talk to us a little bit about
that and what you make of it or what you've
made of it so far.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Sure.
Speaker 5 (06:31):
So.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
In law school, one of my favorite subjects was constitutional law.
That's where you learn about the different branches of government,
the presidential branch, the Congress, and the judicial branch of course,
the Supreme Court. And what's really interesting is the interplay
between those three branches of government. So it's very important
(06:55):
to know that the Supreme Court is probably the most
powerful aspect of the government because they're the ones who
make sure that the Constitution is read, interpreted, and followed
by the courts of law, by the States, or by
the country in general as a whole. Right, So this
(07:18):
decision coming down that kind of takes away some of
the power of the Supreme Court is very frightening, and
it's frightening especially to I think people who are involved
in the legal profession, like myself, because we want the
consistency of having checks and balances in place for the
(07:38):
different branches of government, and I think this is eroding
that and it's scary, Like, we don't want it to
turn into a dictatorship. We don't want one branch of
the government to be so omnipotent that it can squash
the jobs of the other parts of the government. And
I feel like this is inching towards that, and it's
(07:59):
very scary.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Cute your thoughts.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
You know, a lot of people, when we kind of
saw what was coming and started to try to ring
the alarm bills, always assumed that checks and balances would
save us.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Like, yeah, sure, the.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Dude is, you know, a bully, and you know there's
all these red flags about him and all the things
that he's promising that he's going to do to harm people.
But there's checks and balances in this country, and one
person can't just decide to do whatever they want to do, right,
there's guardrails, there's these systems in place, these age old
systems that have always been in place. And what you
(08:38):
and I recognize and try to explain to people is
this is not politics as usual. And as we see
this guy rigging everything and really setting things up so
that he controls every lever of government, you kind of
saw these things coming and even before he was re elected,
you know, conversations about immunity to the president by justices
(09:02):
that he put in place or that were pro him.
We saw that those things were being put in place
for times like this so that eventually all power would
be consolidated to the executive branch. It's a terrifying reality
for me. I'm giving you guys the most calm version
of myself. You know, there's nice where I don't sleep
(09:22):
because I know what people that look like us are
going through. I've been very very outspoken about what life
is like for my family personally. Now, Rams and I
have a video of having that conversation that has gone
viral a lot of support, but also a lot of
people who are like, you know, you guys should have
done it the right way. Those people assuming that me
(09:44):
and my family are not citizens is the funny part.
It was never about legality or documentation. It was that
when you look like us and you speak the language
that my children speak, you become a target for an
administration that does not care about legality or documents or paperwork.
This is a really hate forward administration. And as you
(10:05):
would notice if you're watching the news or reading the headlines,
they're not cracking down on criminal enterprises. They're showing up
at immigration hearings and showing up at you know, people's
workplaces and hospitals and courthouses and terrorizing people, and knowing
that the protections that have always existed to stand in
(10:26):
the way of people like this doing very unlawful and
unconstitutional things to people, that those protections are just kind
of melting away. It's a really, really uncomfortable and scary
time for our country right now.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
I agree with you, Q, it's awful.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Well, so let's talk about the actual Supreme Court decision.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
So, the outcome in short from the most recent Supreme
Court session, I guess is what they would call it.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
I'm not so familiar with the language that they use.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
But the outcome in short states that federal judges lack
the authority to grant nationwide injunctions and so so correct
me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
But there are federal.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Judges in the states, right, But they're federal judges, So
there'll be federal judges in Colorado or Connecticut or whatever.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Correct their district they're they're disfigured out by they're by
regions and things like that.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
So these judges have been are their courtrooms, I guess,
is where a lot of lawsuits have been filed. Two
stop the Trump administrations many endeavors into fundamentally changing the
culture of the United States of America with his what
(11:54):
are those things that you sign on the first day
of office? What are they called?
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Or I'm the new president executive orders? Right, So.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
People would file lawsuits in these lower courts in Colorado
and Connecticut those places, and it would prevent Donald Trump
from implementing his executive vorders because they would halt his proceedings.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
While it was tied up in the court. Right. That's
my understanding so far.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
And the Supreme Court says that those federal judges now
lack the authority to grant nationwide injunctions, meaning that that
is no longer a viable I guess course of action
for guming up the Trump administration for folks that feel
(12:45):
like this is a hostile government. So, first question is
do I have that right? And second question is how
scary is that? Is there any other recourse beyond that?
Is there any legal mechanism that still exists to push
back against that.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Well, the way that the court systems are designed is
that states still have their sovereign immunity, right or they're
a state has their ability to make laws, and then
the federal judges in the federal system is over the
whole country and then it trickles into the states.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
So now with the recent Supreme Court ruling, it's saying
that these federal judges can't make decisions that would affect
the nation as a whole.
Speaker 5 (13:31):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
As far as the injunctions, an injunction is just a
fancy word for stopping something, for forcing the Trump administration
not to do certain things.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
So Donald Trump is really really happy about this ruling
because it gives him a lot more power. He doesn't
have judges now checking him on the lower levels, right,
because he's got the Supreme Court pretty much in his
pocket because there's so many conservatives that he appointed. As
said earlier, but in the federal judge bench, there's you know,
(14:05):
a lot more diversity. There's a harder path for him
to just take over. So with this ruling, it makes
it impossible for the I won't say impossible, nothing's ever impossible,
but it makes it harder for these federal judges to
make decisions that would affect the country as a whole.
So it's yet to be seen exactly how this is
(14:27):
going to play out. It's still a little murky. I
think that these rulings come down and even as a lawyer,
I read some of these articles because I haven't seen
the actual court decision in full yet, and I say,
where are they coming up with this stuff? And I
feel like the justices are so hell bent on getting
(14:50):
their agenda across that they kind of, in my opinion,
just go along with whatever Trump is kind of pushing
or whatever they think is leaning towards their political viewpoint,
instead of actually looking at the constitution, looking at what
is best for the country and what is actually legal
(15:11):
and correct. They're just popping off in a way. And
it's amazing that people in such a high office would
even take the Constitution so lightly and just bend at
the whim of what I think is kind of a
dictatorship in the making. So did that answer your question?
Speaker 3 (15:33):
I think so. I was looking for a modicum of
hope there, but.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
Not something I guess a little bit of hope is that,
you know, it's yet to be seen exactly what will happen,
And the Supreme Court does hold a lot of power,
so for them to say, you know, it's kind of
like slapping down the power of the other federal judges
in the system, because you know, it's a tiered system.
Of course, the Supreme Court is the highest, and then
(15:59):
the federal system is right under that, and then the
state system is under that. So it's not necessarily looking
great for us to come out as not conservative, right
wing people with things that are making sense or going
(16:21):
to help, like what Q was talking about his family
and their situation and living in this country. It's kind
of going to start moving towards Trump getting to do
what he wants to do. But I have faith in
the fact that there are still good people who hopefully
will stand up if it gets to that point. Every
(16:44):
so often we do see every Republican leader come forward
and say, hey, that's not right. Let's just hope and
pray that that happens here. I guess sure, sure.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Okay, that's not nothing. Que I know you had a
few questions.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Well, I don't have a few questions. Actually my problem
is I think we're all kind of looking for hope,
and I feel dishonest and trying to give that to people.
It doesn't feel very hopeful.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
I don't. I don't.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
I think we've always had this resiliency collectively, you know,
even the nature of our relationship with you know, our
favorite lawyer in the world who helped us establish a
nonprofit and helped us, helped us contribute defeating two and
a half million people with hashtag lunchbag with living through
giving shout out to aj I love that, you know,
(17:37):
in eighty cities around the world, all at the same time.
We all got out of bed on Sunday mornings. Some
of us missed church, A lot of people missed America's
real religion, which is football, and we got food together
and water and toiletries and things for people who are
less fortunate. And we did that as a collective around
the world, you know, even having involvement from the United Nations.
(18:01):
So the nature of our relationship has always been trying
to find that light and share it with people, people
who might have lost hope or who might be living
in conditions that seem like there's no repair, or like
there's no coming back, or like things won't get better.
We've kind of perpetually been those people to remind people, hey,
everything's going to be okay, and not thinking about trying
(18:23):
to change the world holistically all at once, but changing
the world for individual people one at a time. We
were committed to that, and we have been for a
long time, so we've always been able to, without even hesitating,
remind people that, hey, where we're at right now is
not where we'll always be, and things can and will
get better. Except I don't feel that way, so I
(18:44):
can't pretend to. It's really hard to talk about these
things because on election Day, as soon as it was
very very clear to me, and it was very early
in the evening when I realized we're not.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Going to win this thing.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
And I still have my opinions on how or why
that's the case, because not winning. When we were there,
we were outside, we were at the rallies, we were
all around the country, and we saw the excitement, we
saw the momentum. I still don't think things were above
board with that, but that's another show. In another conversation.
The reason why I was so sad as I watched
what I knew was going to be the result play
(19:18):
out is because I foresaw all these things that are happening.
Like It's not like we weren't sure they were going
to happen. Every negative, hateful promise that was made as
being upheld. And he started from day one, as Ramsess
would say, with muscle velocity, executive order after executive order
and not even pretending because right now on this big
beautiful bill, they're trying to hide bad things in the
(19:40):
bill but pretending that they're to the benefit of someone.
That first week of executive orders, they didn't even hide
anything and anything good. They didn't pretend they were doing
anything for anyone. Every order was taking something away from someone,
some protection, some right, some social benefits, some piece of
health care adminis, some access to education, some access to
(20:02):
capital funding. Like, all they've done is strip things away.
And what we've noticed is there are no roadblocks, there's
no emergency break, there are no systems in place to
protect us. No one's coming to help us. It sounds
like doom and gloom until you realize its reality, like
what we're seeing happen on video, on TV, on social
media every day to people who don't have anybody that
(20:23):
can stand up for them, who can't stop what's happening,
And you're there essentially empowering regular people to show up
and pretend to be there on behalf of the government
and just seeing essentially how long will people let us
do what we want? You know, the only positive possibility
I see is mass uprising by people who are just
(20:46):
tired of being bullied around and keep about taking away.
But short of that, like what do I can't even
pretend to have any hope. And I'm listening to my
sister over there, who is well versed in law, who
has helped us so many different ways, not just you know,
her areas of expertise, but she's helped us partner with
people to learn more about things that she's not an
(21:07):
expert on because she knows who to put us in
the same room with her, who in a text thread
or an email chain. So she's always been that legal
voice for us. And I know that the work that
she does right now is incredibly frustrating because the entire
career that she's built has been on the basis of
protecting these documents that they're shredding up and throwing in
the trash. So it's very difficult for me to have
(21:28):
that glimmer of hope or to even ask questions because
I'm at this point now it's like, for so long
as what can we do? And I'm like, day by day,
day by day realizing nothing. Well, that the worst things
don't happen is what it feels like.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
But maybe the glimmer of hope could be always keep
your cell phone record. They have the new meta glasses
that are sunglasses and you can with the click of
a button, you can start recording record people doing these things,
record people doing horrific racist things, and hope that you
can get a hold of someone who can hold their
(22:08):
feet to the fire. Everything's not stripped away. I tell
everyone use the technology that we have to call out people,
because even if it's the court of public opinion that counts,
that counts, Like if we can't win against a company
for being racist or something, we can still boycott. Right,
(22:32):
We've shown that we have the power to boycott certain businesses.
Look at Target, they're taking massive hits to their profits,
and so you always have to have your technology in
your hand or accessible so that if something awful starts happening,
you hit that record button and then you can share
(22:54):
it on your social media. You can make things go viral.
Like Q said, he had a video that went viral
that is still available to every single person, and most
people do have access to a cell phone with a camera.
So I know it's bleak, but I think that is
the biggest tool that.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
We have right now.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
And while we're here, just I'm gonna share a piece
of advice that you shared with me with our listeners,
you know, for folks that do end up you know,
because you know, I think that a lot of our
work started out just being very anti We were anti
the way policing was done. I don't want to say
we're anti police. I don't think we're ever anti police,
(23:34):
but not a big fans of the way policing was done.
And you know a piece of advice that once upon
a time you shared with me that recently I posted
on my social media and I saw you in the comments,
was that if you end up in trouble with the police,
you don't have to talk to them, and it's probably
smarter that you don't, so a couple things to keep
in mind, of course, Amy, We're going to keep this
(23:55):
conversation going as things continue to develop.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
Mark Morio here, CEO of the National Urban League, And
on Thursday, July seventeenth, I'll be live in Cleveland at
our national conference with Tony Coles, president of the Black
Information Network. It's called Black America Speaks, and it's exactly
what it sounds like. We'll tackle pressing issues economic inequality,
health disparities, voter suppression, and dismanling of our democratic institutions.
(24:20):
You must be a part of this conversation. Join us
in Cleveland. To register, go to NUF conference dot on.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Hey, what's up.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
This is Ramsy's job and I am q Ward and
we're inviting you to subscribe to Civic Cipher, our weekly
social justice podcast right here in the app.
Speaker 6 (24:37):
We pride ourselves on creating a show that fusters allyship,
empathy and understanding, all the while conducting journalistically credible research
featuring influential, noteworthy guests, and empowering historically marginalized communities.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
The African proverb breeds if you want to go far,
go together. So we are asking you to search for
and subscribe to Civic Cipher. That's Civic cip h e
er right here.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
In the app.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Now it is time for us to shift gears, and
we're gonna talk about folks who better do better. This
from the Black Information Network. Texas Representative Jasmin Crockett question
first Lady Malania Trump receiving an Einstein visa, saying the
math ain't math in on how she was eligible for
a visa meant for those who are extraordinary in academics, athletics,
(25:21):
and other fields. Crockett issued her critique of Trump's Einstein
visa during a house hearing on Wednesday. Quote, let me
remind y'all that Milania the first lady a model. And
when I say model, I'm not talking about Tyra Banks,
Cindy Crawford, or Naomi Campbell level applied for and was
given an eb one visa. And what that stands for
(25:43):
is an Einstein visa. Now, y'all that don't know, let
me tell you how to receive an Einstein visa. You're
supposed to have some sort of significant achievement, like being
awarded a Nobel Peace Pride or a Pulitzer, or being
an Olympic medallist, or having other sustained extraordinary abilities and
success in sciences, arts, education, business, or athletics. Last time
(26:06):
I checked, the first lady had none of these accolades
under her belt. It doesn't take in Einstein to see
that the math ain't math in here. Crockett's comments come
amid the administration's immigration crackdown. According to the Washington Post,
Trump was given a green card through the EB one
program in two thousand and one. The program has been
(26:27):
used by academic researchers and multinational business executives, along with
those who have demonstrated quote sustained national and international acclaim.
According to the Post, Okay, so I think that, you know,
as we're talking about sort of who better do better
(26:48):
really the entirety of the immigration system. I mean, it's
fair to say that we know that money makes the
world go around. People that have money, people that have
access to powerful friends, all that sort of can grease
the gears and get through society and navigate the stratification
of a society or the societal framework or whatever. So
(27:11):
I don't think that the issue here is that Milania
Trump had access to citizenship or legal status in this country.
I think the issue is that many people don't. So
it's not like we're necessarily or Jasmine I don't want
to speak for Jazmin Crockett, but it doesn't feel like
(27:32):
Jasmincrocket is mad at Milania. Rather she's calling out the
privilege that Milania has. But there are other people who
actually do contribute to society in meaningful ways, well beyond
Milania Trump, that might not even qualify for a Einstein visa,
but they qualify for a normal visa, and when their
(27:53):
visa expires or whatever their story is, there's just no
mechanism in place. No one sings their success stories. Rather,
they've been villainized by indeed Mlania's husband's administration. And many
of these people are decent folks, well meaning folks. Most
(28:14):
of the people that have been rounded up in the
iceraates had no criminal record or anything like that. And
I'm sure Q you can speak more to this, but
I know that this is something that is a little
bit more consuming in your world than for most folks.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Well, I have direct experience with applying for and receiving
the what used to be referred to as the alien
with extraordinary ability visa the EB one or the O one,
which you know my ex wife was granted because she
was a billboard topping artist. I don't think Malania has
done such a thing. I think that's kind of the point.
(28:49):
It's not beef with her, just like it's not beef
with white people. When we call out the way law
enforcement unfairly treats black people, we're not saying treat them
worse or deny Milania access.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Is treat us better and give us access.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Like sitting on top of a throne of privilege, pointing
out all the things that you think are wrong as
you benefit from that same privilege. The hypocrisy is very
very loud. You know, you Chung Wan getting rid of
birthright citizenship for a person whose parents were immigrants, whose
wives are immigrants, and whose children are anchor babies, Like
the hypocrisy is so loud, like you want to get
(29:26):
rid of all these protections that you also benefit from
because you know you don't need them, because you're circumventing law,
circumventing due process, and circumventing the constitution. So that party
has kind of adopted that position that things are only
good if they benefit us. If anybody else benefits from them,
then they're no good at all.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
And I think there's something to be said too about
Elon Musk.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Now I'm not going to pretend to know his like
immigration status or his immigration story than one of his parents,
but I do recall there being some chatter about Elon
Musk's citizenship and his story as he came to this country.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
And again, it's one of those things where.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
You know, nobody's saying that these exceptional individuals, or these
connected individuals or people with money should not have access to,
you know, a legal path to citizenship or to you know,
documentation or whatever. But I think that the fact that
it's so hard for so many people, it's such a long,
(30:33):
tedious process, and then the process switches every four years
because there's a new administration, which causes all these people
are trying to do it the right way to start
back at zero. To then have these people who are
indeed trying to do this the right way under an
administration where hypocrisy kind of seems to be central to
it all, to then go into judicial hearings and snatch
(30:57):
people who are not yet citizens but working on it
feels and those people better, do better,
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