August 18, 2025 • 28 mins
Areva Martin is a Harvard-trained Civil Rights attorney and founder of Special Needs Network. She’s on the front lines of today’s most pressing racial and social justice issues, and joins Host Ramses Ja on today's podcast for part two of her conversation.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
And now back to the second part of our conversation
with Ariva Martin, a Harbor trained civil rights attorney, disability
justice advocate, and founder of Special Needs Network, was on
the front line of today's most pressing racial and social
justice issues, leading the charge in California's landmark Palm Springs
reparations case, and helping black families navigate systemic barriers and
(00:21):
special education. In this conversation, we're discussing reparations in twenty
twenty five. We're also discussing what's next for black communities
with the twenty twenty four election behind us. We're also
going to get her thoughts on the next evolution of diversity,
equity and inclusion initiatives and how we should approach them
moving forward. This is the QR code, and I am
(00:45):
your host, ramsy Jah those of us who My forty
third birthday is coming up. So I was born in
nineteen eighty two. I'll be forty three in like two
days or something. I remember being very young and hearing
(01:05):
about affirmative action and how this was going to be
something that would be beneficial for black people, and it
would be beneficial as I came to age right and
then sort of that conversation, i'll say, sort of evolved
into diversity, equity and inclusion twenty twenty one, we'll call
(01:27):
it maybe four years ago, and there seemed to be
this kind of push to hey, let we've been very
unkind and we've been very blinded to the fact that
we're not sharing all these opportunities. And there was this
national push to include other voices, other talents from other
communities in business, economic spaces, et cetera, politics, you name it.
(01:53):
And then the right and Donald Trump kind of took
this idea during his campaign, but the right pushed back saying, hey,
this is not fair to us. They're choosing people, and
they switched the narrative they're choosing people who are not
qualified simply because they are black, instead of what we
(02:16):
were saying, which is we're qualified to please consider us.
But you know, that was the story. And now DEI
on basically every front has been rolled back from the
private sector, obviously the public sector in the past. During
Donald Trump's second administration, black women have suffered the greatest
job loss, I think, to the two of three hundred
(02:36):
thousand in the history of this country. Black people have
overall suffered job lostness, job losses or two pandemic levels.
So's there's as many jobless black people as there was
during the pandemic, and diversity, equity and inclusion being under
(02:58):
attack was one of the main reasons for that. So
we're talking about black economics here. Let's get your thoughts
on what we do with respect to our push for
DI Is there a pivot? Do we rethink this, Do
we have a different conversation with those who are still
sympathetic but have to sort of been the need to
(03:18):
keep their businesses moving forward? You know, any thoughts you
have on this one.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
I think we stayed a course.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
We cannot allow this administration to wipe away the gains
that we have made in this country over the last
fifty years. We can't run, we can't hide, we can't power,
we can't capitually, we can't kiss the ring because one
man has essentially decided that white supremacy is the order
(03:45):
of the day. And let's be real clear that DEI
and the rollbacks on DEI is all about, you know,
a white supremacy narrative that has been percolating under the scenes,
or you know, you could say slowly percolating and gaining
traction in the form of a Donald Trump administration. There
are people in this country, white people in particular, who
(04:07):
are afraid to death of the browning of this country,
that the minority, the minorities, are becoming the majority, and
that that somehow, this scarcy mentality that they have, that
somehow when black folks do well, it means they do
less well, that they suffer, that there's a detriment to them.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
And that is.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
What we are fighting against. And we see it in
this last election. We see it in elections over the
last decade or so, where you have white voters in
southern states, some of the poor states in this country,
voting for elected officials not who are improving their lives,
but who are continuing to support this hierarchy, this hierarchy
of whiteness. And they'll do that even to their own
(04:53):
economic and financial detriment. And so that is what we
are fighting against, and people won't call it out.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
And I'll give you this example.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
I've been reading all these articles about the takeover of
DC by the Donald Trump administration, the federalizing of the
police department and putting National Guard on the streets of DC,
and there were people who were challenging and saying, well,
wait a minute. First of all, crime is down in DC,
Let's get real clear about that. And what about the
fifteen hundred insurrectionists who committed more crimes in three hours
(05:27):
than we've seen, you know, in a year or more,
who were not only in some cases given light sentences,
but who were then pardoned by the very man who
says he's concerned about crime. But they challenged the hypocrisy,
but they didn't call out the racial piece. And that's
one of the things we have to continue to do.
Let's call a spade a spade. Donald Trump is going
(05:48):
into these cities that are predominantly black, that have black leadership,
whether it's DC, whether it's Los Angeles, whether it's talks
of Pokland and Chicago and Baltimore, you know, aligning the people,
talking about lawlessness and homeless people and maligning American citizens
(06:09):
and then saying he and only he, the King, can
clean it up, and I'm going to do so by
sending in the National Guard. But when it comes to
white led cities, when it comes to states in the
South that are led by white elected officials, we don't
hear the same kind of rhetoric and we don't see
the same kinds of actions. So we have to in
this moment continue to call it out. It's not just hypocrisy,
(06:32):
of course, it's rank hypocrisy. But it's more than hypocrisy.
It is racial profiling. It's racially motivated attacks on cities
led by black people, and cities that have predominant or
majority black and brown populations. And I think in this
moment that is again one of the most important things
(06:54):
we can do, is not allow the narrative to be twisted,
to be distorted, to be chased in a way that
erasist the important element that race plays in so many
of the decisions that are being made by this administration.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yeah, And I think the sobering reality that a lot
of this country is either racist or predisposed to racism
is something that was a bit of a gut punch
for me, you know, to help you make your point.
The pushback against DEI had been percolating this whole time,
(07:30):
because it was the same pushback against affirmative action way
back in the eighties and nineties. And you know, the
voter base that elected Donald Trump, they've been primed to
receive the narrative that he gives them. You know, crime
is rampant in DC. As you mentioned, crime in DC's
(07:51):
at a thirty year low, thirty years lower than it
was in the past three decades. And Donald Trump gets
into office says crime is rampant. I'm an effect or
realize the police and his base eats it up like, yes,
he's bringing law in order to DC, ignoring the context,
the facts, the proper framing, etc. Because they're primed for
(08:11):
the racism, if not already racist themselves. Right, So either
it doesn't matter, or they don't care enough to look
because they don't question their reality, right. And so again
I appreciate this perspective. This is the sort of conversation
that our listeners come to this show to hear, and
this is the way that we push back against the
(08:32):
narrative that he is trying to chronicle in these United
States of America. So again, this information is well received.
I do want to ask a question that I think
that you're in a good position to maybe not answer,
but at least give us some perspective on talk to
us about reparations and why reparations still matter, why that
(08:56):
conversation should still be taking place given the current political climate.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yes, we made a lot of progress.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
You look at states like California and New York that
enacted legislation to create reparations committees, cities around the country,
whether it was Saint Louis, Detroit, Sacramento, I mean, so
many cities creating reparations committees to study the harmful impact
of slavery and policies enacted post slavery, the impact that
(09:30):
they had on black families, whether it was in the
healthcare system, educational system obviously, around home ownership, around generational wealth,
around building wealth, around economic advancement, and reparations. You know,
in the last ten years moved from this fringe concept
to this very mainstream concept. We had elected officials at
the national level saying, yes, we at least need to
(09:52):
study it. I mean that was huge. The study bill
that was never passed in Congress, but being talk about
in Congress HR forty to study the impact of reparation.
So the progress has been enormous. And in case I
was working on in Palm Springs, California, we reached a
(10:12):
historic settlement that included cash payments to survivors who have
been racially targeted. Community burned down upended. Also significant payments
that will be made from a programmatic standpoint to improve
the opportunities for people in Palm Springs, California to purchase homes,
(10:33):
to help them with the development of small businesses. That
historic resolution was reached on November fourteenth, twenty twenty four,
just weeks after the national election, and you know, a
couple of months before Donald Trump was you know, back
in the White House after his January you know, inauguration,
(10:55):
and then to see the complete you know, dismantling, the
going in on anything black, anything remotely black, and then
to see cities around the country who had done this work,
who were doing this work, legislative bodies who were in
the process of doing this work, start to retreat, start
to retrench.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Funders there were, there were a.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Number of philanthropic organizations who were funding organizations and individuals
like myself who were on the front lines of this
reparative justice work starting to again pull back because they're
board members, they're they're you know, their their advisory boards there,
they're boards of directors getting cold feet, not wanting to
do anything to uh, you know, end up on the
(11:37):
wrong side of Donald Trump or to in any way,
you know, inflame him.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
And so I was just having this conversation with.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Someone again, in these moments where we've had progress and
then we see this retreat, what do we do? And
again the answer is always the same.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
We keep forging.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Ahead, We keep pushing, We keep trying to push the
envelope as far as we can, because if we give
up now, all the work that was done, that historic
settlement that I reached in Palm Springs, the work that
was done in Everson, Illinois, the work done in Redondo Beach, California,
around the returning of the land owned by the Bruce
(12:18):
family to its ancestors, I mean, to its descendants, all
of that work will be for nought and we cannot
let that happen.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Now.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Does it mean that we are hopeful that we're going
to see states like New York or California past significant laws,
you know, addressing reparations. Probably not in this legislative term,
probably not in next year's legislative term. But it doesn't
mean that we don't keep pushing.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Forward, trying to hold our elected officials accountable.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Those that say they are with us in this fight,
we have to keep holding their feet to the fire
and keep getting them to push, even if it's incremental progress.
You know, I talked to the legislative the black legislators
in the California State legis look at your all the
time about this issue.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
We're not likely to get cash payments, you know, in
this legislative cycle, and in fact, the efforts for.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Cash payments in California were defeated last year. But it
doesn't mean we can't get some legislation passed that advances
this work. And so that's what I tell the folks
doing this work. We're not going to get everything we want,
but it doesn't mean we can't get something. Doesn't mean
we can't make some progress in this work. And I
(13:35):
say to folks who care about reparations, and you should,
all of us should keep doing the work.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Just keep doing the work.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
I think that this helps make the point that you
were making earlier when you said that, I'm gonna paraphrase,
but you said it a lot more eloquently than I'm
going to. So forgive me an advance. But you know,
one generation will do what they can, and it's up
(14:03):
to the next generation to pick up that baton and
carry carry it forward.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
And so.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
I just want to say this real quickly, ram to
that point. When I took the case in Palm Springs,
everyone told me it was a dead loser. The statute
of limitations had run. People had been in that community
for sixty years trying to advance that work, and they
had been shot.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Down over and over again. And it was.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Channeling that thought that even if I wasn't successful, whatever
progress I could make, maybe I delayed the foundation for
some other brilliant civil rights lawyer ten years from now,
fifteen years from now, twenty years from now to pick
up that baton and to carry that work forward. I
didn't know where we would end up. I didn't know
that we would reach this historic settlement. But I hope
(14:53):
that the fact that we did encourages again that next
generation a civil rights lawyer, when they get the next
case like that that looks insurmountable, that looks impossible, that
they can look back on that work and say, well,
even if I don't cross the finish line, maybe the
progress that I can make in this work will have
a profound impact on a community of black folks.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
There's a gentleman that we've talked to a few times.
His name is doctor Marcus Anthony Hunter, and he's a
person who is a very vocal advocate for reparations. He
travels the country speaking. He works very closely with doctor
David Johns and Angela Ryan, those folks, and I think
(15:39):
that his thoughts very much. He sounds like he's learned
a lot from you. So it wouldn't surprise me if
you know the work that you've done and are doing
has reached folks like him around the country. And that's
what I want to talk to next. Or we let
(16:00):
you go. Uh, let's talk about your books, uh Awakening,
make It Rain, the everybody or sorry, the everyday advocate.
You know you said you said that you've you've written
four books. Talk to us about each book. Who you
wrote these books for, what people can expect to learn
(16:24):
from these books, and how you can create, how how
there can be more you know, doctor Marcus Anthony Hunters.
And hopefully you know, I got a trip overseas here
pretty soon I can grab one of these books and
have something to read on my flight. Talk to us
about what we can expect for the folks who haven't
read the books, and you know who you wrote these
books for.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Yeah, the first the every advocate I wrote after my
son was diagnosed with autism, and just my own frustration
with the system, the insurance system, the healthcare system, the
school system, uh the fact that there are more questions
then answers. And I took what I learned advocating for
my own son and using my civil rights background to
(17:06):
write a book that would hopefully be a guy for
parents who are navigating what to do after getting a diagnosis,
how to navigate those very complex systems of care.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
So that's that book.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
The Make It Rain Book is really about after I
started working in the media, being a legal and political
commentator on so many national shows, understanding the power of media,
really really understanding how you could shape narrative, how you
could change narrative, whether it was around I remember most
impactful work I think I did was on CNN, working
when Don Lemon still had his show, when the uprising
(17:43):
you know, is happening in Ferguson, Missouri, and trying to
help people from saying, well it is have a better
understanding about what was happening around Mike Brown and Ferguson,
and helping to reshape what was coming out of the
mainstream media about what was happening on the ground. So
that book was about helping people understand the power of
(18:05):
the media. And now the media, you know, it's not
just a cable network news show. It's what you're doing,
you know, it's what folks do on their TikTok account
and what people do on Instagram. So really getting folks
to understand that power awakening a book about breaking down
the patriarchy, understanding the lies that women have been told,
(18:27):
you know, throughout history in this country, about you know,
our power or lack of power, and really trying to
help women understand how to break through, fight through some
of those lies, and really embrace the power that we have.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
So those are the books that I've written.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
I'm you know, needling a book around this reparative justice
worth that I'm doing, thinking about how I want to
frame it, how I want to write, about how I
want to tell stories, because stories are very powerful, very
powerful in legal cases. That was so important in that
Palm Springs case was the narratives, the stories of the survivors.
(19:09):
You know, those stories helped move the needle in a
significant way. So I'm working on some projects about storytelling
in that reparative justice space.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Okay, well, it occurred to me just before you jump
to get your thoughts on one of the things that
has caused a lot of concern recently. And as someone
who has again the level of perspective that you know,
and I think that the temperament to help us make
(19:41):
heads or tails of it, if you would be so kind.
This Texas redistricting has been deeply concerning. Donald Trump's call
to redo the census ahead of the midterms so that
and jerry mandering will be a bit easier to hold
(20:03):
on to the majority. The conservative majority in the House
of Representatives is unsettling for folks that are aware that
politics works that way, right, And we got some I
guess some good news recently that that would is basically
an impossibility that that would be done prior to the
midterm elections. But still these moves that are blatant powergraph
(20:29):
they're not even hiding it anymore, have been deeply concerning
for people who feel like, let's say, the Democratic establishment
is really the only infrastructure in place to push back
against this conservative supermajority.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Talk to us.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
About kind of those goings on, maybe what the future
of the Democratic Party looks like, or if you had
a magic wand what you would see folks do, or
maybe just your thoughts, your reflections on this for a
lot of us.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Oh all of us. Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
I think the thing that is teaching us the most
is as much as we love our forever first lady,
you know, and you know her mantra of when they go,
we go high, that our mantra in this moment means
needs to change.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
And when they fight, we fight harder.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
There you go, because we cannot continue to fight a
battle with our hands tied behind our backs, you know,
with our eyes closed, with our feet feet shackled. When
we are dealing with the likes of the corruption of
someone like Donald Trump and these governors in these red
(21:42):
states who.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Are willing to do his bidding, who are willing to.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Be as corrupt and engage in the kind of corruption
that they're willing to do, we will lose this country.
We will lose the progress that we've made for women,
for gay people, for black people, for minorities, for disabled.
I mean, we will just lose everything. And they are
willing to allow this country to lose everything again to
support white supremacy. That is just that simple. To maintain
(22:07):
their hierarchy to maintain their status. They will literally let
it all burn down. So I think in this moment,
you know, kudos to those Democratic governors who stood up
and said, okay, Texas, if you change your legislative process,
if you jerry manner these five seats to create this
(22:29):
artificial map that will ensure five additional Republican seats, we
are going to wipe away five Republican seats in our state.
You know, there are some folks, you know I saw
who said, oh my god, the Democrats.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
We shouldn't be tificate. I'm sorry, it's a gunfight. Bring
a gun. Yep. It's just that simple.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
I mean, bring the biggest gun you can find, because
that is what we're dealing with in this notion that
the Democrats can sit around and be stuck in an
era where you can negotiate, you cannot negotiate. And we
see this with the universities, we see this with the
big law firms. Any of these entities that have tried
to negotiate with this administration find themselves always on the
(23:11):
losing end. No matter what you give a bullion inch,
they will take a mile. You know, you pay the
fifty million dollars. He wants fifty million more and access
to all your records you give them, you know, the
first set of records. He wants to, you know, put
a receiver in your institution to review every application that
you know gets some military institutions. So there's just no ending.
So I think this is a scary moment. We all
(23:34):
need to be very keenly aware of what's happening. And
if we live in states that are blue, where we
have governors that are Democrats, we need to be encouraging
our governors, our state legislators, our congressional leaders in these
booth states to do everything in their power to fight back.
And if that means changing our legislative maps, it means
change the maps.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Yes, absolutely, and will stop. And I want to make
a note here that, you know, since we're talking about
Gavin Newsom specifically, I really do appreciate his approach because
it looks backward and it is very present and forward
looking as well. And he said, because we just covered
this on the show, but he said that he was
going to do it on a temporary basis. Yes, respond
(24:18):
to Texas, Yes, going to do it with the consent
of the voters. Yes, and I love that because again
there is some sort of politics as usual there with
the Democrats. To be fair there, of the two parties,
they seem to be the only decent group of human
beings in this country.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
But we wiped out the power forever.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
If we don't respond, we will be forever locked out.
We're locked out at the Supreme Court. Let's we expand it.
I mean that's a whole decade or more. We're locked
out of the Congress, the Senate, and the White House,
and under the Trump plan, we will be locked out
forever ever, so we'll never have an opportunity to exercise
our power because Trump has a plan and it's like
(25:05):
the you know Party of twenty twenty five is like
the Heritage Foundation is like all of the plans that
they've had overturning Roe v. Wade just roll back all
the rights that we have in this country and basically
go back to the nineteen fifties where you're a white
male and you are in control, and if you're not,
even if you're a white woman.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
And I love the white women who are.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Very keenly aware that they also suffer under this administration
and their vision of what this country will look like
they are not spared.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Yea, and they lost d They were the biggest beneficiaries
of DI and they lost that.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
And they've lost it.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Didn't realize it.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
They've lost abortion rights. They also, you know, are also
the users of that form of healthcare for women. So
we lose they are losing as well.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Yeah, it's it's crazy, but you know, I appreciate all
that you mentioned that you're kind of kind of needling,
you said, a new book. I want to give you
a chance to, you know, shout out anything that might
be coming up for you that people should look out for.
I know you do public speaking, I know you do
(26:17):
a number of things.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Yeah, nothing that I am at liberty to share right now,
just to encourage folks to follow me on all things
social Adareva Martin, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, LinkedIn.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
I love to hear from folks.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
I'm constantly posting, you know, thought leadership type content.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Folks who aren't glued to the news. I do the
work for them.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
I read a gazillion newspapers a day and try to
post those stories, particularly those that impact the black community,
so they can follow my social feeds to feel up
to date. And get my commentary on what this administration
is doing.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Thank you, Thank you. Appreciate that just followed you. Thank you,
and I will, you know, likewise follow you back.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
But just want to be in conversation with folks and
want folks to feel like there's a trusted voice. I
have a podcast called The Special Report. You can go
to my YouTube page and subscribe. You can check out
content I post regularly. It's political, but it's also pop culture,
it's also current events. Just again trying to make sure
folks are feeling like they have some trusted source that
(27:22):
they can go to to make sense of this craziness
in this crazy world that we're in right now.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Yeah. Well, again, I appreciate you taking the time to
talk with our listeners to share some perspective, and I
appreciate your commitment to the inspired, informed future of black
(27:49):
people in this country. You're doing work that maybe you
feel like you have to do, but I'll say, you're
doing work that you don't have to do. The fact
that you're doing it is very special, So it feels
very special. One of the great north Stars of all time,
certainly the great north Star of our time. Once again,
(28:10):
Today's guest is Harvard trained civil rights attorney, author, disability
justice advocate, and founder of special needs network Ariva Martin.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
This has been a production of the bi In. Today's
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perspective right here on the QR code
And now back to the second part of our conversation
with Ariva Martin, a Harbor trained civil rights attorney, disability
justice advocate, and founder of Special Needs Network, was on
the front line of today's most pressing racial and social
justice issues, leading the charge in California's landmark Palm Springs
reparations case, and helping black families navigate systemic barriers and
(00:21):
special education. In this conversation, we're discussing reparations in twenty
twenty five. We're also discussing what's next for black communities
with the twenty twenty four election behind us. We're also
going to get her thoughts on the next evolution of diversity,
equity and inclusion initiatives and how we should approach them
moving forward. This is the QR code, and I am
(00:45):
your host, ramsy Jah those of us who My forty
third birthday is coming up. So I was born in
nineteen eighty two. I'll be forty three in like two
days or something. I remember being very young and hearing
(01:05):
about affirmative action and how this was going to be
something that would be beneficial for black people, and it
would be beneficial as I came to age right and
then sort of that conversation, i'll say, sort of evolved
into diversity, equity and inclusion twenty twenty one, we'll call
(01:27):
it maybe four years ago, and there seemed to be
this kind of push to hey, let we've been very
unkind and we've been very blinded to the fact that
we're not sharing all these opportunities. And there was this
national push to include other voices, other talents from other
communities in business, economic spaces, et cetera, politics, you name it.
(01:53):
And then the right and Donald Trump kind of took
this idea during his campaign, but the right pushed back saying, hey,
this is not fair to us. They're choosing people, and
they switched the narrative they're choosing people who are not
qualified simply because they are black, instead of what we
(02:16):
were saying, which is we're qualified to please consider us.
But you know, that was the story. And now DEI
on basically every front has been rolled back from the
private sector, obviously the public sector in the past. During
Donald Trump's second administration, black women have suffered the greatest
job loss, I think, to the two of three hundred
(02:36):
thousand in the history of this country. Black people have
overall suffered job lostness, job losses or two pandemic levels.
So's there's as many jobless black people as there was
during the pandemic, and diversity, equity and inclusion being under
(02:58):
attack was one of the main reasons for that. So
we're talking about black economics here. Let's get your thoughts
on what we do with respect to our push for
DI Is there a pivot? Do we rethink this, Do
we have a different conversation with those who are still
sympathetic but have to sort of been the need to
(03:18):
keep their businesses moving forward? You know, any thoughts you
have on this one.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
I think we stayed a course.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
We cannot allow this administration to wipe away the gains
that we have made in this country over the last
fifty years. We can't run, we can't hide, we can't power,
we can't capitually, we can't kiss the ring because one
man has essentially decided that white supremacy is the order
(03:45):
of the day. And let's be real clear that DEI
and the rollbacks on DEI is all about, you know,
a white supremacy narrative that has been percolating under the scenes,
or you know, you could say slowly percolating and gaining
traction in the form of a Donald Trump administration. There
are people in this country, white people in particular, who
(04:07):
are afraid to death of the browning of this country,
that the minority, the minorities, are becoming the majority, and
that that somehow, this scarcy mentality that they have, that
somehow when black folks do well, it means they do
less well, that they suffer, that there's a detriment to them.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
And that is.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
What we are fighting against. And we see it in
this last election. We see it in elections over the
last decade or so, where you have white voters in
southern states, some of the poor states in this country,
voting for elected officials not who are improving their lives,
but who are continuing to support this hierarchy, this hierarchy
of whiteness. And they'll do that even to their own
(04:53):
economic and financial detriment. And so that is what we
are fighting against, and people won't call it out.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
And I'll give you this example.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
I've been reading all these articles about the takeover of
DC by the Donald Trump administration, the federalizing of the
police department and putting National Guard on the streets of DC,
and there were people who were challenging and saying, well,
wait a minute. First of all, crime is down in DC,
Let's get real clear about that. And what about the
fifteen hundred insurrectionists who committed more crimes in three hours
(05:27):
than we've seen, you know, in a year or more,
who were not only in some cases given light sentences,
but who were then pardoned by the very man who
says he's concerned about crime. But they challenged the hypocrisy,
but they didn't call out the racial piece. And that's
one of the things we have to continue to do.
Let's call a spade a spade. Donald Trump is going
(05:48):
into these cities that are predominantly black, that have black leadership,
whether it's DC, whether it's Los Angeles, whether it's talks
of Pokland and Chicago and Baltimore, you know, aligning the people,
talking about lawlessness and homeless people and maligning American citizens
(06:09):
and then saying he and only he, the King, can
clean it up, and I'm going to do so by
sending in the National Guard. But when it comes to
white led cities, when it comes to states in the
South that are led by white elected officials, we don't
hear the same kind of rhetoric and we don't see
the same kinds of actions. So we have to in
this moment continue to call it out. It's not just hypocrisy,
(06:32):
of course, it's rank hypocrisy. But it's more than hypocrisy.
It is racial profiling. It's racially motivated attacks on cities
led by black people, and cities that have predominant or
majority black and brown populations. And I think in this
moment that is again one of the most important things
(06:54):
we can do, is not allow the narrative to be twisted,
to be distorted, to be chased in a way that
erasist the important element that race plays in so many
of the decisions that are being made by this administration.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yeah, And I think the sobering reality that a lot
of this country is either racist or predisposed to racism
is something that was a bit of a gut punch
for me, you know, to help you make your point.
The pushback against DEI had been percolating this whole time,
(07:30):
because it was the same pushback against affirmative action way
back in the eighties and nineties. And you know, the
voter base that elected Donald Trump, they've been primed to
receive the narrative that he gives them. You know, crime
is rampant in DC. As you mentioned, crime in DC's
(07:51):
at a thirty year low, thirty years lower than it
was in the past three decades. And Donald Trump gets
into office says crime is rampant. I'm an effect or
realize the police and his base eats it up like, yes,
he's bringing law in order to DC, ignoring the context,
the facts, the proper framing, etc. Because they're primed for
(08:11):
the racism, if not already racist themselves. Right, So either
it doesn't matter, or they don't care enough to look
because they don't question their reality, right. And so again
I appreciate this perspective. This is the sort of conversation
that our listeners come to this show to hear, and
this is the way that we push back against the
(08:32):
narrative that he is trying to chronicle in these United
States of America. So again, this information is well received.
I do want to ask a question that I think
that you're in a good position to maybe not answer,
but at least give us some perspective on talk to
us about reparations and why reparations still matter, why that
(08:56):
conversation should still be taking place given the current political climate.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yes, we made a lot of progress.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
You look at states like California and New York that
enacted legislation to create reparations committees, cities around the country,
whether it was Saint Louis, Detroit, Sacramento, I mean, so
many cities creating reparations committees to study the harmful impact
of slavery and policies enacted post slavery, the impact that
(09:30):
they had on black families, whether it was in the
healthcare system, educational system obviously, around home ownership, around generational wealth,
around building wealth, around economic advancement, and reparations. You know,
in the last ten years moved from this fringe concept
to this very mainstream concept. We had elected officials at
the national level saying, yes, we at least need to
(09:52):
study it. I mean that was huge. The study bill
that was never passed in Congress, but being talk about
in Congress HR forty to study the impact of reparation.
So the progress has been enormous. And in case I
was working on in Palm Springs, California, we reached a
(10:12):
historic settlement that included cash payments to survivors who have
been racially targeted. Community burned down upended. Also significant payments
that will be made from a programmatic standpoint to improve
the opportunities for people in Palm Springs, California to purchase homes,
(10:33):
to help them with the development of small businesses. That
historic resolution was reached on November fourteenth, twenty twenty four,
just weeks after the national election, and you know, a
couple of months before Donald Trump was you know, back
in the White House after his January you know, inauguration,
(10:55):
and then to see the complete you know, dismantling, the
going in on anything black, anything remotely black, and then
to see cities around the country who had done this work,
who were doing this work, legislative bodies who were in
the process of doing this work, start to retreat, start
to retrench.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Funders there were, there were a.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Number of philanthropic organizations who were funding organizations and individuals
like myself who were on the front lines of this
reparative justice work starting to again pull back because they're
board members, they're they're you know, their their advisory boards there,
they're boards of directors getting cold feet, not wanting to
do anything to uh, you know, end up on the
(11:37):
wrong side of Donald Trump or to in any way,
you know, inflame him.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
And so I was just having this conversation with.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Someone again, in these moments where we've had progress and
then we see this retreat, what do we do? And
again the answer is always the same.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
We keep forging.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Ahead, We keep pushing, We keep trying to push the
envelope as far as we can, because if we give
up now, all the work that was done, that historic
settlement that I reached in Palm Springs, the work that
was done in Everson, Illinois, the work done in Redondo Beach, California,
around the returning of the land owned by the Bruce
(12:18):
family to its ancestors, I mean, to its descendants, all
of that work will be for nought and we cannot
let that happen.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Now.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Does it mean that we are hopeful that we're going
to see states like New York or California past significant laws,
you know, addressing reparations. Probably not in this legislative term,
probably not in next year's legislative term. But it doesn't
mean that we don't keep pushing.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Forward, trying to hold our elected officials accountable.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Those that say they are with us in this fight,
we have to keep holding their feet to the fire
and keep getting them to push, even if it's incremental progress.
You know, I talked to the legislative the black legislators
in the California State legis look at your all the
time about this issue.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
We're not likely to get cash payments, you know, in
this legislative cycle, and in fact, the efforts for.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Cash payments in California were defeated last year. But it
doesn't mean we can't get some legislation passed that advances
this work. And so that's what I tell the folks
doing this work. We're not going to get everything we want,
but it doesn't mean we can't get something. Doesn't mean
we can't make some progress in this work. And I
(13:35):
say to folks who care about reparations, and you should,
all of us should keep doing the work.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Just keep doing the work.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
I think that this helps make the point that you
were making earlier when you said that, I'm gonna paraphrase,
but you said it a lot more eloquently than I'm
going to. So forgive me an advance. But you know,
one generation will do what they can, and it's up
(14:03):
to the next generation to pick up that baton and
carry carry it forward.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
And so.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
I just want to say this real quickly, ram to
that point. When I took the case in Palm Springs,
everyone told me it was a dead loser. The statute
of limitations had run. People had been in that community
for sixty years trying to advance that work, and they
had been shot.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Down over and over again. And it was.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Channeling that thought that even if I wasn't successful, whatever
progress I could make, maybe I delayed the foundation for
some other brilliant civil rights lawyer ten years from now,
fifteen years from now, twenty years from now to pick
up that baton and to carry that work forward. I
didn't know where we would end up. I didn't know
that we would reach this historic settlement. But I hope
(14:53):
that the fact that we did encourages again that next
generation a civil rights lawyer, when they get the next
case like that that looks insurmountable, that looks impossible, that
they can look back on that work and say, well,
even if I don't cross the finish line, maybe the
progress that I can make in this work will have
a profound impact on a community of black folks.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
There's a gentleman that we've talked to a few times.
His name is doctor Marcus Anthony Hunter, and he's a
person who is a very vocal advocate for reparations. He
travels the country speaking. He works very closely with doctor
David Johns and Angela Ryan, those folks, and I think
(15:39):
that his thoughts very much. He sounds like he's learned
a lot from you. So it wouldn't surprise me if
you know the work that you've done and are doing
has reached folks like him around the country. And that's
what I want to talk to next. Or we let
(16:00):
you go. Uh, let's talk about your books, uh Awakening,
make It Rain, the everybody or sorry, the everyday advocate.
You know you said you said that you've you've written
four books. Talk to us about each book. Who you
wrote these books for, what people can expect to learn
(16:24):
from these books, and how you can create, how how
there can be more you know, doctor Marcus Anthony Hunters.
And hopefully you know, I got a trip overseas here
pretty soon I can grab one of these books and
have something to read on my flight. Talk to us
about what we can expect for the folks who haven't
read the books, and you know who you wrote these
books for.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Yeah, the first the every advocate I wrote after my
son was diagnosed with autism, and just my own frustration
with the system, the insurance system, the healthcare system, the
school system, uh the fact that there are more questions
then answers. And I took what I learned advocating for
my own son and using my civil rights background to
(17:06):
write a book that would hopefully be a guy for
parents who are navigating what to do after getting a diagnosis,
how to navigate those very complex systems of care.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
So that's that book.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
The Make It Rain Book is really about after I
started working in the media, being a legal and political
commentator on so many national shows, understanding the power of media,
really really understanding how you could shape narrative, how you
could change narrative, whether it was around I remember most
impactful work I think I did was on CNN, working
when Don Lemon still had his show, when the uprising
(17:43):
you know, is happening in Ferguson, Missouri, and trying to
help people from saying, well it is have a better
understanding about what was happening around Mike Brown and Ferguson,
and helping to reshape what was coming out of the
mainstream media about what was happening on the ground. So
that book was about helping people understand the power of
(18:05):
the media. And now the media, you know, it's not
just a cable network news show. It's what you're doing,
you know, it's what folks do on their TikTok account
and what people do on Instagram. So really getting folks
to understand that power awakening a book about breaking down
the patriarchy, understanding the lies that women have been told,
(18:27):
you know, throughout history in this country, about you know,
our power or lack of power, and really trying to
help women understand how to break through, fight through some
of those lies, and really embrace the power that we have.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
So those are the books that I've written.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
I'm you know, needling a book around this reparative justice
worth that I'm doing, thinking about how I want to
frame it, how I want to write, about how I
want to tell stories, because stories are very powerful, very
powerful in legal cases. That was so important in that
Palm Springs case was the narratives, the stories of the survivors.
(19:09):
You know, those stories helped move the needle in a
significant way. So I'm working on some projects about storytelling
in that reparative justice space.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Okay, well, it occurred to me just before you jump
to get your thoughts on one of the things that
has caused a lot of concern recently. And as someone
who has again the level of perspective that you know,
and I think that the temperament to help us make
(19:41):
heads or tails of it, if you would be so kind.
This Texas redistricting has been deeply concerning. Donald Trump's call
to redo the census ahead of the midterms so that
and jerry mandering will be a bit easier to hold
(20:03):
on to the majority. The conservative majority in the House
of Representatives is unsettling for folks that are aware that
politics works that way, right, And we got some I
guess some good news recently that that would is basically
an impossibility that that would be done prior to the
midterm elections. But still these moves that are blatant powergraph
(20:29):
they're not even hiding it anymore, have been deeply concerning
for people who feel like, let's say, the Democratic establishment
is really the only infrastructure in place to push back
against this conservative supermajority.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Talk to us.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
About kind of those goings on, maybe what the future
of the Democratic Party looks like, or if you had
a magic wand what you would see folks do, or
maybe just your thoughts, your reflections on this for a
lot of us.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Oh all of us. Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
I think the thing that is teaching us the most
is as much as we love our forever first lady,
you know, and you know her mantra of when they go,
we go high, that our mantra in this moment means
needs to change.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
And when they fight, we fight harder.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
There you go, because we cannot continue to fight a
battle with our hands tied behind our backs, you know,
with our eyes closed, with our feet feet shackled. When
we are dealing with the likes of the corruption of
someone like Donald Trump and these governors in these red
(21:42):
states who.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Are willing to do his bidding, who are willing to.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Be as corrupt and engage in the kind of corruption
that they're willing to do, we will lose this country.
We will lose the progress that we've made for women,
for gay people, for black people, for minorities, for disabled.
I mean, we will just lose everything. And they are
willing to allow this country to lose everything again to
support white supremacy. That is just that simple. To maintain
(22:07):
their hierarchy to maintain their status. They will literally let
it all burn down. So I think in this moment,
you know, kudos to those Democratic governors who stood up
and said, okay, Texas, if you change your legislative process,
if you jerry manner these five seats to create this
(22:29):
artificial map that will ensure five additional Republican seats, we
are going to wipe away five Republican seats in our state.
You know, there are some folks, you know I saw
who said, oh my god, the Democrats.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
We shouldn't be tificate. I'm sorry, it's a gunfight. Bring
a gun. Yep. It's just that simple.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
I mean, bring the biggest gun you can find, because
that is what we're dealing with in this notion that
the Democrats can sit around and be stuck in an
era where you can negotiate, you cannot negotiate. And we
see this with the universities, we see this with the
big law firms. Any of these entities that have tried
to negotiate with this administration find themselves always on the
(23:11):
losing end. No matter what you give a bullion inch,
they will take a mile. You know, you pay the
fifty million dollars. He wants fifty million more and access
to all your records you give them, you know, the
first set of records. He wants to, you know, put
a receiver in your institution to review every application that
you know gets some military institutions. So there's just no ending.
So I think this is a scary moment. We all
(23:34):
need to be very keenly aware of what's happening. And
if we live in states that are blue, where we
have governors that are Democrats, we need to be encouraging
our governors, our state legislators, our congressional leaders in these
booth states to do everything in their power to fight back.
And if that means changing our legislative maps, it means
change the maps.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Yes, absolutely, and will stop. And I want to make
a note here that, you know, since we're talking about
Gavin Newsom specifically, I really do appreciate his approach because
it looks backward and it is very present and forward
looking as well. And he said, because we just covered
this on the show, but he said that he was
going to do it on a temporary basis. Yes, respond
(24:18):
to Texas, Yes, going to do it with the consent
of the voters. Yes, and I love that because again
there is some sort of politics as usual there with
the Democrats. To be fair there, of the two parties,
they seem to be the only decent group of human
beings in this country.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
But we wiped out the power forever.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
If we don't respond, we will be forever locked out.
We're locked out at the Supreme Court. Let's we expand it.
I mean that's a whole decade or more. We're locked
out of the Congress, the Senate, and the White House,
and under the Trump plan, we will be locked out
forever ever, so we'll never have an opportunity to exercise
our power because Trump has a plan and it's like
(25:05):
the you know Party of twenty twenty five is like
the Heritage Foundation is like all of the plans that
they've had overturning Roe v. Wade just roll back all
the rights that we have in this country and basically
go back to the nineteen fifties where you're a white
male and you are in control, and if you're not,
even if you're a white woman.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
And I love the white women who are.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Very keenly aware that they also suffer under this administration
and their vision of what this country will look like
they are not spared.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Yea, and they lost d They were the biggest beneficiaries
of DI and they lost that.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
And they've lost it.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Didn't realize it.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
They've lost abortion rights. They also, you know, are also
the users of that form of healthcare for women. So
we lose they are losing as well.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Yeah, it's it's crazy, but you know, I appreciate all
that you mentioned that you're kind of kind of needling,
you said, a new book. I want to give you
a chance to, you know, shout out anything that might
be coming up for you that people should look out for.
I know you do public speaking, I know you do
(26:17):
a number of things.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Yeah, nothing that I am at liberty to share right now,
just to encourage folks to follow me on all things
social Adareva Martin, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, LinkedIn.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
I love to hear from folks.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
I'm constantly posting, you know, thought leadership type content.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Folks who aren't glued to the news. I do the
work for them.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
I read a gazillion newspapers a day and try to
post those stories, particularly those that impact the black community,
so they can follow my social feeds to feel up
to date. And get my commentary on what this administration
is doing.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Thank you, Thank you. Appreciate that just followed you. Thank you,
and I will, you know, likewise follow you back.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
But just want to be in conversation with folks and
want folks to feel like there's a trusted voice. I
have a podcast called The Special Report. You can go
to my YouTube page and subscribe. You can check out
content I post regularly. It's political, but it's also pop culture,
it's also current events. Just again trying to make sure
folks are feeling like they have some trusted source that
(27:22):
they can go to to make sense of this craziness
in this crazy world that we're in right now.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Yeah. Well, again, I appreciate you taking the time to
talk with our listeners to share some perspective, and I
appreciate your commitment to the inspired, informed future of black
(27:49):
people in this country. You're doing work that maybe you
feel like you have to do, but I'll say, you're
doing work that you don't have to do. The fact
that you're doing it is very special, So it feels
very special. One of the great north Stars of all time,
certainly the great north Star of our time. Once again,
(28:10):
Today's guest is Harvard trained civil rights attorney, author, disability
justice advocate, and founder of special needs network Ariva Martin.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
This has been a production of the bi In. Today's
show was produced by Chris Thompson. Have some thoughts you'd
like to share, use the red microphone talkback feature on
the iHeartRadio app. While you're there, be sure to hit
subscribe and download all of our episodes. I'm your host,
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as we share our news with our voice from our
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