On part of today's show, Host Ramses Ja talks exclusively with Actor Michael Jai White about his new film “Trouble Man” and Black Life in Hollywood.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Michael Jay White is an American actor and martial artist
who has appeared in numerous films and television series. He
is the first African American to portray a major comic
book superhero in a major motion picture, having starred as
Al Simmons protagonist in the nineteen ninety seven film Spawn.
White portrayed Jacks Briggs in Mortal Kombat Legacy of twenty eleven.
(00:20):
White also portrayed boxer Mike Tyson in the nineteen ninety
five HBO television movie Tyson back with his film Troubleman, written, produced,
directed by, and starring Michael Ji White. This film revives
the spirit of nineteen seventies urban action comedy with a
modern twist. It premiered at the American Black Film Festival
earlier this summer and features a dynamic ensemble including method
(00:43):
Man Orlando Jones, Gillian White, Levy, Tran, Mike Epps, and
La La Anthony. Whether you're into martial arts, action, pack comedy,
or nostalgic genre storytelling, Troubleman delivers on every front. And
now to give us more on this brand new film,
we have them man himself, Michael Ji White. This is
(01:03):
the QR code with your hosts q Ward and Rams's job.
All right, mister Michael Jai White, Welcome to the show Man.
How you doing today?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Good? Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Absolutely so.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
You're someone who needs no introduction, But one of the
things that we do around here is we give every
guest a moment or so to talk about their story,
a little bit about their background, their upbringing, and what
leads them to today's conversation. Now, I know that, again,
you're a well known individual, but we'd like to extend
the same courtesy to you, just to familiarize our listeners
(01:38):
with the conversation the person we're having today's conversation with.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
Yeah, well, I'm one of those people lucky enough to
find what he's supposed to do in this world. I was,
you know, I've been on my own since I was fourteen.
I've wound up being a school teacher before as an
actor and still flirted with me this industry. I enjoyed
the act in the writing and everything that connected with it,
(02:03):
and then decided that I had to give it a shot,
and so here I am here I still sit. So yeah,
so that's a little bit of a little bit of
my background. A martial artist ever since I was seven
years old. So that's just been a main stay in
my life and it's helped me as far as discipline
in every aspect of my life.
Speaker 5 (02:23):
Sure sure, sure, Well you're a well, highly regarded individual,
well regarded martial artist as well, and obviously knowing a
little bit about that just kind of helps frame, you know,
the story, the parts that we don't know at least.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
But let's get right to the brass tacks here. First
thing I want to say, I want to make sure
we get this out of the way. I know, congratulations
are in order because gigantic studios, that's something that I
would imagine you've been working on for a long time.
So talk to us a little bit about gigantic studios
and why it was important to open your own studio
(02:58):
in your own state.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
I think it's very important, especially those of us that have, uh,
you know, specific thing to say. I'm you know there
there's a lack of certain qualities of film, uh urban films,
and I like to fill that up. I mean, like
with this movie. I was very encouraged by some of
(03:21):
the action movies that depicted strong male and female black characters.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Growing up.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
I was was very influenced by people like Jim Brown
and Fred Williamson and the movies like Uptown Saturday Night
and you know, a piece of the action, those type
of things with Portier and Cosby, and that's missing and
in movies today, uh, you know, and so and you
know in a lot of movies where you know, we
(03:48):
take part in our own narratives and so you know,
we I just like to tell my own stories. So
that's uh, that's what brings me uh to and I
feel like the necessity of starting my own sure sure.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
And I don't know if this is connected at all,
but I remember during COVID there was an interview and
I couldn't tell you which platform it was, but you
were this was around the time when all the Black
Lives Matter protests were taking place, and I'm not sure
if you were talking about a film or something. But
the way that my memory this was years ago now,
(04:23):
of course, but the way that it's coming back to
me that you really had a lot to say, and
you were really challenging Hollywood to do better in terms
of telling black stories and really capturing kind of the
plight of black folks in this country. And you were
(04:44):
what I gathered from what you were saying at the time,
and you can correct me if I'm wrong, was that
there's a lot of the way I missed opportunities and
a lot of people missing the mark in terms of
what that moment was about. And it seems as though
you've kind of taking the path of like the Tyler
Perry's and I know Kat Williams was it was in
(05:04):
the headlines recently about opening his own studio doing.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
The same thing.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
So is this kind of in that same vein where
you're just like, hey, look, these folks aren't doing what
we want them to do, so let's do it ourselves.
Is that kind of the spirit behind us?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Well?
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Yeah, definitely, Tyler Perry. I've even before I met Tyler Perry,
this was my my plan, okay. And on one level,
like I can't expect other folks to tell our stories,
you know what I mean, it just doesn't make sense,
and you know, or even identify with what interests us.
(05:38):
You know, there's certain certain level to where it just
can't be expected anymore. And so I think it's incumbent
up us to take it in our own hands. Like
I couldn't expect somebody to write black Dynamite. You know,
I mean, who's going to write black Dynamite but me?
(06:01):
And there's a lot of things that I mean, I
can't expect people to understand, Like I can't sell it intangible,
and so if I were to even explain black Dynamite
to someone that doesn't doesn't know that, there's no way
that they're going to get the nuances. And so just
like with this movie, Uh, now you know, I've got
(06:24):
a background where you know, people kind of can can
trust that I'm going to take it into a place where, uh,
they can't fathom exactly what the tone is, but they'll
trust enough that I do know. And so like when
in this situation where I have a deal with Samuel Gowan,
there's a bit of trust that's that's involved. So you know,
(06:49):
going forward, you know, you you you know, just can
take it, take it your own direction, and people have
that trust that you know your audience and know how
to market to them.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Okay, I love that.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
All right, Well, now that we're here, let's talk about
the film trouble Man. So talk to us about the
story there, give us a bit of an overview.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
We're going to convince folks to come and check it out.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Well.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
I mean, there was a movie trouble Man back in
nineteen seventy two by Hooks was one of my favorites
of that era, and it was a you know, kind
of a badass character who was you know, kind of
like he's a fixer, but he was really all about
his community. And so I thought to revamp that that
(07:38):
title in that spirit of a character, but make it contemporary.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
And so I had that, you know, I had that.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
In mind, you know, infuse it with comedy and you know,
make it really fun and write for a contemporary audience.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
And with that.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Being influenced by the Jim Brown Fred Williamson's if I'm
the Jim Brown of this movie, I needed my Fred
Williamson and that I found that in method Man, So
you know, partnering up with him, that that created the
symbiosis I really wanted to be in this movie. Sure,
all the stuff that I looked looked up to growing up,
(08:19):
where you had you know, alpha male black role models
who you know, who were powerful and you know, had
their own swagger and uh and you know you could
look up to want to emulate, there hasn't been very many.
There haven't been very many movies that had that that
(08:41):
composition of fun, martial arts, the culture, music, all of
that since really Last Dragon, as far as I'm concerned, Like, so,
you know, that's that's a that is a combination, that
is a winning combination. It's a shame that doesn't come
but a few decades apart, but I want to do
(09:04):
something about that.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Okay, Well, so that's that's actually where I was going next,
because you know, you know, full disclosure, I haven't seen
the original Trouble Man, but I noticed that in this
film there's kind of a lighthearted, comedic approach to the
action movie genre, which is something that we're more accustomed
to seeing you in, you know, more serious, more like,
(09:27):
you know, tough guy type films. So I thought that
that felt kind of special, especially you know, Mike Apps.
You mentioned method Man, and he's great in comedic roles.
So so talk to us a little bit more about
what like life was like on the set with those guys,
and whether or not what we think of these these individuals,
(09:47):
especially these comedic actors, has translated into the film.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Oh it absolutely does.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
I mean, method Man is this He's so funny, uh,
you know, and he I feel like, you know, I
really identified with me very much like me. We've we've
traversed these really extreme cultures and we're kind of like
I kind of call it like bilingual, where folks that
are coming from the projects, that are just as comfortable
(10:16):
in the projects as the boardroom. And so I glimpse
that even in his work, and you know, he here
he is one of my favorite rapper, but I recognize
that he's quoting the Beatles and the Stills in Nash
and all of these different, uh you know, eclectic you know,
(10:40):
different music in his raps, which is like very much
kind of like a page out of like my my background. Yeah,
so you know it's it's you know, this diversity he
actually has, and you know it's like we're these you know,
cool nerds at.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
The same time.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
So you know, I we had met upon a different occasions,
and I knew he had that kind of alchemy that
that could be shared with me. So uh it turned
out way better than I even thought to be honest.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Okay, really funny. He's a really funny guy.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yeah, yeah, Like I've seen him, We've all seen him
in comedic roles over the years, and he's a home
run hitter there and so to see both of you
up there together in a action comedy genre for a
film it you know, I was I couldn't wait to
get to it. So so I'm excited that, you know,
(11:39):
we get to share this conversation with our listeners and
they have something that they can check out too. So
I want to make sure that we touch on you know,
or I guess go back to some of the stuff
we were talking about earlier too. So on a more
serious note, there's a scene in the film where you
share with the viewer, with the viewing audience the true
(12:01):
history of martial arts and its connection to the countries
of Africa and China. Right, So talk to our listeners
about that scene and why you felt it was important
to include that in the movie.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, well, because it's historical.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
I mean, as somebody who's going to China several times,
you know, from the time I was a teenager and
seeing you know, for the first time, I'm like, uh,
you know, because there's this because religion was banned for
so long in China, and you know, there would be
effigies of just three people that I'd see over and over,
(12:40):
and there's mause tongue. And then there was one that
was this, you know, clearly a black man who you know,
even statues would would receiving hairline and nappy hair. And
I'm like to learn that that's Domo, that's the father
of martial arts.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
And to know that he brought.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Buddhism and martial arts to the Chavelin Temple. That Bodhi
Dama or Domo, you know that, and he was also
nicknamed the Black Monk. That's a father of martial arts
in China. And a lot of people think that it
started with the Chamolin Temple. No, he brought it to
(13:24):
the Chaolin And so I know, you know, we we've
been denied of our history just over and over and
it's it's definitely in the news right now about that,
but but a lot of around the world we're not denied.
It's not even hidden. There's a lot of things that
even in samurai culture, there's there's so many things stories
(13:48):
with with African samurai. Uh just these these amazing things
that our culture is infused all over the world. But
uh as as somebody who was grown up in the
martial arts, and just to bring out that fact that
you know, these you know, these these kung fu people,
(14:10):
you know, the chauland temple that you hold in such
high regard, Well that was brought that was brought to
them by a person of color. And even in China,
in Beijing, there's paintings of Damo and there's he's brown
and he's teaching monks and there are other monks who
(14:30):
are brown, and that's that's not an accident, you know
what I mean. You know, so so to bring that
and and absolutely to be shocked by when we had
the first screening, first community screening I had was in Miami.
When I delivered that information, there was this round of
(14:54):
applause that happened, and that's happened every screening.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
I never I didn't expect this.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
But that goes to show that we are are absolutely
you know, hungry for our place in history and proud
to learn about that. And so I mean there's I
feel like any movie I do, yeah, you know, I'm
(15:25):
gonna like, if it's a martial arts movie, I want
to make sure if you took the martial arts out
of the movie, that would be a good movie by itself,
you know what I mean. And it's got something to
contribute and so while I have you and I'm going
to entertain you, why not feed you something nutritious.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Okay, yeah, yeah, I'm with that. I'm with that.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
I was. I was on a recent episode of our
radio show that we do. We dove into the roots
of yoga and indeed those have deep roots in Africa
as well. And you know, that was another thing that
was really surprising for me to learn because when you
(16:05):
think about it, it makes sense because we were in at
Homo sapien sapiens were in Africa for such a long
time that indeed these things that we consider to be
so ancient ancient, they would have roots in Africa.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
Yeah, martial arts, I mean even A and E did
a big, big expos a on the history of martial
arts and they clarified that martial artists started started in
Africa and Benni Hassan twenty five hundred BC. Wow, you know,
they were the first martial arts that they saw was
depicting on caves and Benni Hassan. So, I mean, this
(16:42):
is this, these these facts are not hidden, you.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Know, hidden from us.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
But well it's a shame that it's just that, I mean.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
You can google all of this yeah, you know, and
like I say, A and E did a special on it. Yeah,
but you know, it's just I don't know, it just
it you you have to be receptive to it, and
you know, and it didn't then I don't know. It's
it's like there's a component where those those narratives are
(17:16):
not front and center.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Sure, yeah, I think that. I think that's that's a
better way to say it too. So but while we're here,
there's another thing that that we kind of noticed about
the film. So there's a lot of scenes where your
character Jackson objects to other characters in the film using
the in word Okay. So so why was it important
(17:41):
for you to, I guess, make that statement in the film,
even though it was like in a humorous and in
a subtle way.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
And and and maybe what what what was it that
you were.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Trying to accomplish with with those scenes in particular.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
Well, one of the things is, you know, I have
the flexibility and the levity to to put some of
my own things in there. And that's the word I
do not use. You know, I do not use that word.
And I do not like creatively come up with condoning
that word, you know, just like in the movie. You know,
(18:19):
I say that the method mass character, you know where
it came from. I don't care how you want to
try to paint it. You know, we we know where
that word came from. And as long as that word
that's the same word that's used that you that you
hear before somebody takes another's life, you can't say that
that's a term of endearment.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
You know, you can't have both.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
So you know, so I know we've been you know,
you know, taking Chitling's and making a making a meal
out of it, you know what I mean. And that's
a thing of pride about taking something and reforming it.
I get that, But that's just not what it is is.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
This is not what it is.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
It's it's it's very ugly word. The connotation is clear.
I don't, I don't, shouldn't even have to talk about it. Yeah,
but you know, we have to look at the comfort
with embracing that just kind of symbolizes a comfort for
or you know, kind of like being complacent with being
(19:25):
less than you know, and finding out to be comfortable.
But you know, I have a have my reasons why
I understand why people are still doing that in this
day and age, you know, because we you know, we've
been taught to hate each other. We've been taught to
uh pull each other down. But I understand, but that
(19:45):
came out of love. Because generations are go. The old
folks kept the young folks down and say no, no,
you don't, you don't. Don't think you anything better than this,
because you know, young folks wanted to get educated, they
wanted to look that white man in the eye. They
wanted they wanted to be bold, they want to do that.
But then a lot of those young folks wound up
hanging from a tree, and so the old folks pulled
(20:08):
them back down and said no, no, no, no, you
ain't no better than anybody, you know, and it kept
them grounded, to keep them alive. Well, it came out
of love, but we tend to still do that in
a knee jerk response. Well, when the old folk folks
pass on, they don't know that you can prosper from
a good education. You can you can now stand up
(20:29):
and do these things right. They meant, well, but it's
a cultural thing that we've inherited, this, this tactic of
keeping each other down. Now, comedy has been you so
black you this, and that it's always put down yeah,
right now, and our music you know kind of you
start to resemble that and everything else. But yeah, it's
(20:51):
just a trip that you know, it really came from
love and keeping us, keeping us safe. Keeping us down
meant keeping us safe. But that's a that's a trend
with we just got to start looking at it, you know,
look at for the truth of it. Yeah that truthfully,
we had to do that to stay alive, but no longer.
And so it's it's just really kind of you know,
(21:14):
taking our time and looking at looking at it and
just looking at it from another perspective and see and
test it. You know, I'm not going to appreciate anybody,
but I feel that that's that's one of the culprits
of us allowing ourselves to be called less than what
we are.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Yeah, I'd go with that.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
And if I may, just to kind of provide some
additional framing for I think the points that you've made,
and you feel free to jump in or correct me
if I.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Misspeak here.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
But one of the things, one of the great examples
of how our stories were written in this country. I
think you can find an example of that type of
thinking in the Willie Lynch Letter, which I know is
(22:07):
regarded in some circles as a work of fiction, but
I think the thinking really does represent the type of
thinking that was prominent during that time. And one of
the things that comes from the Willy Lynch letter is,
you know, you break the will of these people by
destroying the male figure in front of the female and
(22:28):
then she raises the children in reverse roles. Right, And
so your point about this coming from love, you're not
better than anyone else, coming from older folks to younger folks,
I think is kind of I think we see evidence
of that type of thinking being established and being implemented
into our narratives, in our minds and spirits way back
(22:50):
during slavery.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
The other thing I want to point out, too.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Is that this is just a fantastic, I guess justification
for you creating gigantic studios so that you can implement
subtle and humorous elements like this, because like I said,
it doesn't feel preachy, or like you said, it doesn't
(23:14):
feel preachy, It just feels like a subtle thing. Some
people can decide what's right for them, others can't, and
some people have to leave by example, on the scale
of a country, things tend to move a little bit
more slowly, right, So you and I can make it
live and overnight. But if we both adopt this new
way of thinking that you know what, that word doesn't
work for us, then slowly other people in theory would
(23:35):
follow suit. And the last thing I want to say
is that you know, to your point about this being
you know, a word that often people heard as the
last word in their lifetime. One of the things that
I say often on this show is that indeed it
is the last word that many people heard at the
(23:58):
end of a short, hard life life in this country only,
and the legacy of that word tastes like filth in
my mouth. So this is why for me, again not
preaching anyone just like you, let me think that your
points are well made. And the fact that you are
establishing a new uh I guess line so to speak,
(24:24):
for this protagonist in your own film where you're writing
the dialogue is something that that is to be applauded.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
So I salute you so.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Thank you for that. Thank you.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Yeah, yeah, you know, like I said, you know, we
we we must do this, especially some of us when
you know you know, there's this there's this whole thing
about you know, manhood, and you know, what's what's what's
a what's a true alpha male? What's in and there's
any masculinities seen as toxic maculinities sometimes and so you know,
(24:57):
we have a lot of work to do and we
don't have you know, and it's because commonplace too uh
not to have masculine images. You know, because when you
think about it, like really thinking about just men in general,
or just even black men. But what what out there
in the in media is geared for us? Like almost nothing, Yeah,
(25:20):
you know, there's no there's no sitcoms, there's no television shows,
there's nothing. Back in the seventies where I like it
so much, we had so many images. We had our
Jim Brown's, Fred Williamson's uh you name it, Philip Michael Thomas,
all these people that were like had the same criteria
you had the the Pam Grier's Tamil Adopson's very powerful,
(25:45):
like you know, in the same way where there's almost
every movie or television show has an alpha white male, right,
but then we've been relegated to being sidekicks or comic
you know, just kind of relief.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Yeah. Yeah, the pat on the head.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
This the the non threatening type of you know, wow,
you know I like that that non threatening guy, that
that type of thing for so long, it becomes you know,
a commonplace where we're not represented in the same way
that that white folks are, right like like it was
in the seventies because in the seventies, all our all
(26:24):
our actors they were you know, the the alpha females
and males.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
You know, we don't have very.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
Many pam Griers now, you know, and that that whole thing.
But it's I feel like with with UH, it's it's
making a it's making a step forward though, because you
know with Alvis Hodge and and uh Sterling and and
and with uh brother Ryan Coogler, they're they're they're changing it.
(26:55):
And I'm so proud of that. I'm so proud of
that upswing showing that we can have you know, uplifting,
empowering content.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
That sells worldwide.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Yeah, and so you know, it's a good time and
I'd like to be part of that trend.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Wellen, speaking of uplifting and powerful content, I want to
make sure that people do know that this is a
comedy and it is an enjoyable film and they should
definitely check it out.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
So let's let's before we let you go, let's make sure.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
That we let everybody know just the general who, what, when,
we're why, how all that about the film so that
we can get our audience to check the film out.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Okay, yeah, well it's out now.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
The movie is out now, and it's on streaming and
in certain theaters. It's definitely on Apple and Amazon Prime,
you know, and I think a few others not I
haven't been brought up to, which was streaming networks have it?
Speaker 2 (27:53):
The majors have it right now.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Okay, so before we let you go, I know that
you're always working on the next big thing.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Do me a favorite?
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Share any social media any ways that people can just
kind of create some connective tissue with you and all
that you have going on, just so let's keep up
with you.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
I'm at official Michael Jai on ig that's my main handle,
and it's just I believe I have Michael J. White
dot com on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
All right.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Well, in that case, thank you so much, not just
for this film, not just for your time, but for
a career where you've represented yourself and all of us well,
and you know, I couldn't be happier. It's an honor
to be able to talk to you, so once again
today's guest legendary actor and the star of the new
(28:44):
film Troubleman, Michael Jai White, thank you, and that's going
to do it for us here on the QR code.
Be sure to follow us on all social media at
Civic Cipher and until tomorrow, y'all peace,
Michael Jay White is an American actor and martial artist
who has appeared in numerous films and television series. He
is the first African American to portray a major comic
book superhero in a major motion picture, having starred as
Al Simmons protagonist in the nineteen ninety seven film Spawn.
White portrayed Jacks Briggs in Mortal Kombat Legacy of twenty eleven.
(00:20):
White also portrayed boxer Mike Tyson in the nineteen ninety
five HBO television movie Tyson back with his film Troubleman, written, produced,
directed by, and starring Michael Ji White. This film revives
the spirit of nineteen seventies urban action comedy with a
modern twist. It premiered at the American Black Film Festival
earlier this summer and features a dynamic ensemble including method
(00:43):
Man Orlando Jones, Gillian White, Levy, Tran, Mike Epps, and
La La Anthony. Whether you're into martial arts, action, pack comedy,
or nostalgic genre storytelling, Troubleman delivers on every front. And
now to give us more on this brand new film,
we have them man himself, Michael Ji White. This is
(01:03):
the QR code with your hosts q Ward and Rams's job.
All right, mister Michael Jai White, Welcome to the show Man.
How you doing today?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Good? Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Absolutely so.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
You're someone who needs no introduction, But one of the
things that we do around here is we give every
guest a moment or so to talk about their story,
a little bit about their background, their upbringing, and what
leads them to today's conversation. Now, I know that, again,
you're a well known individual, but we'd like to extend
the same courtesy to you, just to familiarize our listeners
(01:38):
with the conversation the person we're having today's conversation with.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
Yeah, well, I'm one of those people lucky enough to
find what he's supposed to do in this world. I was,
you know, I've been on my own since I was fourteen.
I've wound up being a school teacher before as an
actor and still flirted with me this industry. I enjoyed
the act in the writing and everything that connected with it,
(02:03):
and then decided that I had to give it a shot,
and so here I am here I still sit. So yeah,
so that's a little bit of a little bit of
my background. A martial artist ever since I was seven
years old. So that's just been a main stay in
my life and it's helped me as far as discipline
in every aspect of my life.
Speaker 5 (02:23):
Sure sure, sure, Well you're a well, highly regarded individual,
well regarded martial artist as well, and obviously knowing a
little bit about that just kind of helps frame, you know,
the story, the parts that we don't know at least.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
But let's get right to the brass tacks here. First
thing I want to say, I want to make sure
we get this out of the way. I know, congratulations
are in order because gigantic studios, that's something that I
would imagine you've been working on for a long time.
So talk to us a little bit about gigantic studios
and why it was important to open your own studio
(02:58):
in your own state.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
I think it's very important, especially those of us that have, uh,
you know, specific thing to say. I'm you know there
there's a lack of certain qualities of film, uh urban films,
and I like to fill that up. I mean, like
with this movie. I was very encouraged by some of
(03:21):
the action movies that depicted strong male and female black characters.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Growing up.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
I was was very influenced by people like Jim Brown
and Fred Williamson and the movies like Uptown Saturday Night
and you know, a piece of the action, those type
of things with Portier and Cosby, and that's missing and
in movies today, uh, you know, and so and you
know in a lot of movies where you know, we
(03:48):
take part in our own narratives and so you know,
we I just like to tell my own stories. So
that's uh, that's what brings me uh to and I
feel like the necessity of starting my own sure sure.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
And I don't know if this is connected at all,
but I remember during COVID there was an interview and
I couldn't tell you which platform it was, but you
were this was around the time when all the Black
Lives Matter protests were taking place, and I'm not sure
if you were talking about a film or something. But
the way that my memory this was years ago now,
(04:23):
of course, but the way that it's coming back to
me that you really had a lot to say, and
you were really challenging Hollywood to do better in terms
of telling black stories and really capturing kind of the
plight of black folks in this country. And you were
(04:44):
what I gathered from what you were saying at the time,
and you can correct me if I'm wrong, was that
there's a lot of the way I missed opportunities and
a lot of people missing the mark in terms of
what that moment was about. And it seems as though
you've kind of taking the path of like the Tyler
Perry's and I know Kat Williams was it was in
(05:04):
the headlines recently about opening his own studio doing.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
The same thing.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
So is this kind of in that same vein where
you're just like, hey, look, these folks aren't doing what
we want them to do, so let's do it ourselves.
Is that kind of the spirit behind us?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Well?
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Yeah, definitely, Tyler Perry. I've even before I met Tyler Perry,
this was my my plan, okay. And on one level,
like I can't expect other folks to tell our stories,
you know what I mean, it just doesn't make sense,
and you know, or even identify with what interests us.
(05:38):
You know, there's certain certain level to where it just
can't be expected anymore. And so I think it's incumbent
up us to take it in our own hands. Like
I couldn't expect somebody to write black Dynamite. You know,
I mean, who's going to write black Dynamite but me?
(06:01):
And there's a lot of things that I mean, I
can't expect people to understand, Like I can't sell it intangible,
and so if I were to even explain black Dynamite
to someone that doesn't doesn't know that, there's no way
that they're going to get the nuances. And so just
like with this movie, Uh, now you know, I've got
(06:24):
a background where you know, people kind of can can
trust that I'm going to take it into a place where, uh,
they can't fathom exactly what the tone is, but they'll
trust enough that I do know. And so like when
in this situation where I have a deal with Samuel Gowan,
there's a bit of trust that's that's involved. So you know,
(06:49):
going forward, you know, you you you know, just can
take it, take it your own direction, and people have
that trust that you know your audience and know how
to market to them.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Okay, I love that.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
All right, Well, now that we're here, let's talk about
the film trouble Man. So talk to us about the
story there, give us a bit of an overview.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
We're going to convince folks to come and check it out.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Well.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
I mean, there was a movie trouble Man back in
nineteen seventy two by Hooks was one of my favorites
of that era, and it was a you know, kind
of a badass character who was you know, kind of
like he's a fixer, but he was really all about
his community. And so I thought to revamp that that
(07:38):
title in that spirit of a character, but make it contemporary.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
And so I had that, you know, I had that.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
In mind, you know, infuse it with comedy and you know,
make it really fun and write for a contemporary audience.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
And with that.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Being influenced by the Jim Brown Fred Williamson's if I'm
the Jim Brown of this movie, I needed my Fred
Williamson and that I found that in method Man, So
you know, partnering up with him, that that created the
symbiosis I really wanted to be in this movie. Sure,
all the stuff that I looked looked up to growing up,
(08:19):
where you had you know, alpha male black role models
who you know, who were powerful and you know, had
their own swagger and uh and you know you could
look up to want to emulate, there hasn't been very many.
There haven't been very many movies that had that that
(08:41):
composition of fun, martial arts, the culture, music, all of
that since really Last Dragon, as far as I'm concerned, Like, so,
you know, that's that's a that is a combination, that
is a winning combination. It's a shame that doesn't come
but a few decades apart, but I want to do
(09:04):
something about that.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Okay, Well, so that's that's actually where I was going next,
because you know, you know, full disclosure, I haven't seen
the original Trouble Man, but I noticed that in this
film there's kind of a lighthearted, comedic approach to the
action movie genre, which is something that we're more accustomed
to seeing you in, you know, more serious, more like,
(09:27):
you know, tough guy type films. So I thought that
that felt kind of special, especially you know, Mike Apps.
You mentioned method Man, and he's great in comedic roles.
So so talk to us a little bit more about
what like life was like on the set with those guys,
and whether or not what we think of these these individuals,
(09:47):
especially these comedic actors, has translated into the film.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Oh it absolutely does.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
I mean, method Man is this He's so funny, uh,
you know, and he I feel like, you know, I
really identified with me very much like me. We've we've
traversed these really extreme cultures and we're kind of like
I kind of call it like bilingual, where folks that
are coming from the projects, that are just as comfortable
(10:16):
in the projects as the boardroom. And so I glimpse
that even in his work, and you know, he here
he is one of my favorite rapper, but I recognize
that he's quoting the Beatles and the Stills in Nash
and all of these different, uh you know, eclectic you know,
(10:40):
different music in his raps, which is like very much
kind of like a page out of like my my background. Yeah,
so you know it's it's you know, this diversity he
actually has, and you know it's like we're these you know,
cool nerds at.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
The same time.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
So you know, I we had met upon a different occasions,
and I knew he had that kind of alchemy that
that could be shared with me. So uh it turned
out way better than I even thought to be honest.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Okay, really funny. He's a really funny guy.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yeah, yeah, Like I've seen him, We've all seen him
in comedic roles over the years, and he's a home
run hitter there and so to see both of you
up there together in a action comedy genre for a
film it you know, I was I couldn't wait to
get to it. So so I'm excited that, you know,
(11:39):
we get to share this conversation with our listeners and
they have something that they can check out too. So
I want to make sure that we touch on you know,
or I guess go back to some of the stuff
we were talking about earlier too. So on a more
serious note, there's a scene in the film where you
share with the viewer, with the viewing audience the true
(12:01):
history of martial arts and its connection to the countries
of Africa and China. Right, So talk to our listeners
about that scene and why you felt it was important
to include that in the movie.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, well, because it's historical.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
I mean, as somebody who's going to China several times,
you know, from the time I was a teenager and
seeing you know, for the first time, I'm like, uh,
you know, because there's this because religion was banned for
so long in China, and you know, there would be
effigies of just three people that I'd see over and over,
(12:40):
and there's mause tongue. And then there was one that
was this, you know, clearly a black man who you know,
even statues would would receiving hairline and nappy hair. And
I'm like to learn that that's Domo, that's the father
of martial arts.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
And to know that he brought.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Buddhism and martial arts to the Chavelin Temple. That Bodhi
Dama or Domo, you know that, and he was also
nicknamed the Black Monk. That's a father of martial arts
in China. And a lot of people think that it
started with the Chamolin Temple. No, he brought it to
(13:24):
the Chaolin And so I know, you know, we we've
been denied of our history just over and over and
it's it's definitely in the news right now about that,
but but a lot of around the world we're not denied.
It's not even hidden. There's a lot of things that
even in samurai culture, there's there's so many things stories
(13:48):
with with African samurai. Uh just these these amazing things
that our culture is infused all over the world. But
uh as as somebody who was grown up in the
martial arts, and just to bring out that fact that
you know, these you know, these these kung fu people,
(14:10):
you know, the chauland temple that you hold in such
high regard, Well that was brought that was brought to
them by a person of color. And even in China,
in Beijing, there's paintings of Damo and there's he's brown
and he's teaching monks and there are other monks who
(14:30):
are brown, and that's that's not an accident, you know
what I mean. You know, so so to bring that
and and absolutely to be shocked by when we had
the first screening, first community screening I had was in Miami.
When I delivered that information, there was this round of
(14:54):
applause that happened, and that's happened every screening.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
I never I didn't expect this.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
But that goes to show that we are are absolutely
you know, hungry for our place in history and proud
to learn about that. And so I mean there's I
feel like any movie I do, yeah, you know, I'm
(15:25):
gonna like, if it's a martial arts movie, I want
to make sure if you took the martial arts out
of the movie, that would be a good movie by itself,
you know what I mean. And it's got something to
contribute and so while I have you and I'm going
to entertain you, why not feed you something nutritious.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Okay, yeah, yeah, I'm with that. I'm with that.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
I was. I was on a recent episode of our
radio show that we do. We dove into the roots
of yoga and indeed those have deep roots in Africa
as well. And you know, that was another thing that
was really surprising for me to learn because when you
(16:05):
think about it, it makes sense because we were in at
Homo sapien sapiens were in Africa for such a long
time that indeed these things that we consider to be
so ancient ancient, they would have roots in Africa.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
Yeah, martial arts, I mean even A and E did
a big, big expos a on the history of martial
arts and they clarified that martial artists started started in
Africa and Benni Hassan twenty five hundred BC. Wow, you know,
they were the first martial arts that they saw was
depicting on caves and Benni Hassan. So, I mean, this
(16:42):
is this, these these facts are not hidden, you.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Know, hidden from us.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
But well it's a shame that it's just that, I mean.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
You can google all of this yeah, you know, and
like I say, A and E did a special on it. Yeah,
but you know, it's just I don't know, it just
it you you have to be receptive to it, and
you know, and it didn't then I don't know. It's
it's like there's a component where those those narratives are
(17:16):
not front and center.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Sure, yeah, I think that. I think that's that's a
better way to say it too. So but while we're here,
there's another thing that that we kind of noticed about
the film. So there's a lot of scenes where your
character Jackson objects to other characters in the film using
the in word Okay. So so why was it important
(17:41):
for you to, I guess, make that statement in the film,
even though it was like in a humorous and in
a subtle way.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
And and and maybe what what what was it that
you were.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Trying to accomplish with with those scenes in particular.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
Well, one of the things is, you know, I have
the flexibility and the levity to to put some of
my own things in there. And that's the word I
do not use. You know, I do not use that word.
And I do not like creatively come up with condoning
that word, you know, just like in the movie. You know,
(18:19):
I say that the method mass character, you know where
it came from. I don't care how you want to
try to paint it. You know, we we know where
that word came from. And as long as that word
that's the same word that's used that you that you
hear before somebody takes another's life, you can't say that
that's a term of endearment.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
You know, you can't have both.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
So you know, so I know we've been you know,
you know, taking Chitling's and making a making a meal
out of it, you know what I mean. And that's
a thing of pride about taking something and reforming it.
I get that, But that's just not what it is is.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
This is not what it is.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
It's it's it's very ugly word. The connotation is clear.
I don't, I don't, shouldn't even have to talk about it. Yeah,
but you know, we have to look at the comfort
with embracing that just kind of symbolizes a comfort for
or you know, kind of like being complacent with being
(19:25):
less than you know, and finding out to be comfortable.
But you know, I have a have my reasons why
I understand why people are still doing that in this
day and age, you know, because we you know, we've
been taught to hate each other. We've been taught to
uh pull each other down. But I understand, but that
(19:45):
came out of love. Because generations are go. The old
folks kept the young folks down and say no, no,
you don't, you don't. Don't think you anything better than this,
because you know, young folks wanted to get educated, they
wanted to look that white man in the eye. They
wanted they wanted to be bold, they want to do that.
But then a lot of those young folks wound up
hanging from a tree, and so the old folks pulled
(20:08):
them back down and said no, no, no, no, you
ain't no better than anybody, you know, and it kept
them grounded, to keep them alive. Well, it came out
of love, but we tend to still do that in
a knee jerk response. Well, when the old folk folks
pass on, they don't know that you can prosper from
a good education. You can you can now stand up
(20:29):
and do these things right. They meant, well, but it's
a cultural thing that we've inherited, this, this tactic of
keeping each other down. Now, comedy has been you so
black you this, and that it's always put down yeah,
right now, and our music you know kind of you
start to resemble that and everything else. But yeah, it's
(20:51):
just a trip that you know, it really came from
love and keeping us, keeping us safe. Keeping us down
meant keeping us safe. But that's a that's a trend
with we just got to start looking at it, you know,
look at for the truth of it. Yeah that truthfully,
we had to do that to stay alive, but no longer.
And so it's it's just really kind of you know,
(21:14):
taking our time and looking at looking at it and
just looking at it from another perspective and see and
test it. You know, I'm not going to appreciate anybody,
but I feel that that's that's one of the culprits
of us allowing ourselves to be called less than what
we are.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Yeah, I'd go with that.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
And if I may, just to kind of provide some
additional framing for I think the points that you've made,
and you feel free to jump in or correct me
if I.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Misspeak here.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
But one of the things, one of the great examples
of how our stories were written in this country. I
think you can find an example of that type of
thinking in the Willie Lynch Letter, which I know is
(22:07):
regarded in some circles as a work of fiction, but
I think the thinking really does represent the type of
thinking that was prominent during that time. And one of
the things that comes from the Willy Lynch letter is,
you know, you break the will of these people by
destroying the male figure in front of the female and
(22:28):
then she raises the children in reverse roles. Right, And
so your point about this coming from love, you're not
better than anyone else, coming from older folks to younger folks,
I think is kind of I think we see evidence
of that type of thinking being established and being implemented
into our narratives, in our minds and spirits way back
(22:50):
during slavery.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
The other thing I want to point out, too.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Is that this is just a fantastic, I guess justification
for you creating gigantic studios so that you can implement
subtle and humorous elements like this, because like I said,
it doesn't feel preachy, or like you said, it doesn't
(23:14):
feel preachy, It just feels like a subtle thing. Some
people can decide what's right for them, others can't, and
some people have to leave by example, on the scale
of a country, things tend to move a little bit
more slowly, right, So you and I can make it
live and overnight. But if we both adopt this new
way of thinking that you know what, that word doesn't
work for us, then slowly other people in theory would
(23:35):
follow suit. And the last thing I want to say
is that you know, to your point about this being
you know, a word that often people heard as the
last word in their lifetime. One of the things that
I say often on this show is that indeed it
is the last word that many people heard at the
(23:58):
end of a short, hard life life in this country only,
and the legacy of that word tastes like filth in
my mouth. So this is why for me, again not
preaching anyone just like you, let me think that your
points are well made. And the fact that you are
establishing a new uh I guess line so to speak,
(24:24):
for this protagonist in your own film where you're writing
the dialogue is something that that is to be applauded.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
So I salute you so.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Thank you for that. Thank you.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Yeah, yeah, you know, like I said, you know, we
we we must do this, especially some of us when
you know you know, there's this there's this whole thing
about you know, manhood, and you know, what's what's what's
a what's a true alpha male? What's in and there's
any masculinities seen as toxic maculinities sometimes and so you know,
(24:57):
we have a lot of work to do and we
don't have you know, and it's because commonplace too uh
not to have masculine images. You know, because when you
think about it, like really thinking about just men in general,
or just even black men. But what what out there
in the in media is geared for us? Like almost nothing, Yeah,
(25:20):
you know, there's no there's no sitcoms, there's no television shows,
there's nothing. Back in the seventies where I like it
so much, we had so many images. We had our
Jim Brown's, Fred Williamson's uh you name it, Philip Michael Thomas,
all these people that were like had the same criteria
you had the the Pam Grier's Tamil Adopson's very powerful,
(25:45):
like you know, in the same way where there's almost
every movie or television show has an alpha white male, right,
but then we've been relegated to being sidekicks or comic
you know, just kind of relief.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Yeah. Yeah, the pat on the head.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
This the the non threatening type of you know, wow,
you know I like that that non threatening guy, that
that type of thing for so long, it becomes you know,
a commonplace where we're not represented in the same way
that that white folks are, right like like it was
in the seventies because in the seventies, all our all
(26:24):
our actors they were you know, the the alpha females
and males.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
You know, we don't have very.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
Many pam Griers now, you know, and that that whole thing.
But it's I feel like with with UH, it's it's
making a it's making a step forward though, because you
know with Alvis Hodge and and uh Sterling and and
and with uh brother Ryan Coogler, they're they're they're changing it.
(26:55):
And I'm so proud of that. I'm so proud of
that upswing showing that we can have you know, uplifting,
empowering content.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
That sells worldwide.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Yeah, and so you know, it's a good time and
I'd like to be part of that trend.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Wellen, speaking of uplifting and powerful content, I want to
make sure that people do know that this is a
comedy and it is an enjoyable film and they should
definitely check it out.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
So let's let's before we let you go, let's make sure.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
That we let everybody know just the general who, what, when,
we're why, how all that about the film so that
we can get our audience to check the film out.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Okay, yeah, well it's out now.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
The movie is out now, and it's on streaming and
in certain theaters. It's definitely on Apple and Amazon Prime,
you know, and I think a few others not I
haven't been brought up to, which was streaming networks have it?
Speaker 2 (27:53):
The majors have it right now.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Okay, so before we let you go, I know that
you're always working on the next big thing.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Do me a favorite?
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Share any social media any ways that people can just
kind of create some connective tissue with you and all
that you have going on, just so let's keep up
with you.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
I'm at official Michael Jai on ig that's my main handle,
and it's just I believe I have Michael J. White
dot com on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
All right.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Well, in that case, thank you so much, not just
for this film, not just for your time, but for
a career where you've represented yourself and all of us well,
and you know, I couldn't be happier. It's an honor
to be able to talk to you, so once again
today's guest legendary actor and the star of the new
(28:44):
film Troubleman, Michael Jai White, thank you, and that's going
to do it for us here on the QR code.
Be sure to follow us on all social media at
Civic Cipher and until tomorrow, y'all peace,
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