December 14, 2022 • 33 mins
In a powerful and hopefully-enlightening episode, Iyanla speaks with a father who was former military, and is now struggling with a divorce. He’s worried that his two adult children weren’t given a good life and may end up resenting him for his choice to leave their mother, even though it was best for him. Iyanla finds the real core of the issue and helps the caller, and maybe more listeners out there, learn to understand that men can experience heartbreak too… And sometimes they need to let it happen in order to grow.
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Executive Producers: Sandie Bailey, Alex Alcheh, Lauren Hohman, Tyler Klang & Gabrielle Collins
Producer & Editor: Vince Dajani
Associate Producer: Akiya McKnight
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
I am a Yamla. I've been very open about the
fact that I was not always good at making my
relationships work. I have been divorced three times, twice from
the same person. In other words, I have seen a
lot and failed a lot in my relationships. So I
am here to share with you what I learned along
(00:23):
the way, because I did take copious notes. Welcome to
the Our Spot, a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
with our Heart Radio. You know, sometimes as women, I
(00:48):
think that we think that men don't have feelings and
they don't have hearts. Now, sometimes it's because of the
way that they behave and sometimes it's because of the
stories we make up about them. I also think that
sometimes men don't know how to say what they feel,
(01:09):
and as women, we don't know how to hear it.
Sometimes I think we're so busy trying to talk them
out of what they're thinking that we don't give honor
to their feeling. I put a call out and I
said I wanted to talk to man, because I know
the one place a man is willing to be vulnerable
(01:31):
and share his heart is when it comes to dealing
with his children. And sometimes as mothers and women. We
don't honor and respect a man's heart as a father.
So my hope is that and listening to my next
(01:52):
caller my guests for today, that women will rethink what
they think about how men bel Take a listen tweetings beloved,
welcome to the art spot. Wow, how are you? Man?
I'm blessed? How are you? I'm in r right now
(02:14):
because you're one of my favorite people and I'm just
in shock right now. So this is amazing. Well, take
a breath. I'm crying. Thank you for calling. I'm always
amazed and encouraged by the amount of courage it takes
for someone to be so vulnerable to call and talk
(02:35):
to basically a stranger. So you're in all with me.
I'm in all with you. So we're just awe struck.
How about that? And awesome? Sounds good? Man, sounds good?
So how can I support you today? Let's talk about
your relationship challenge, issue, dilemma. What's going on? So I
currently going through a divorce which is spilled over into
(02:58):
the to the children. Two children, one's about to be
twenty two and one just turned seventeen. I've been active
father in their life since birth. I've been married to
their mother since they were both born. We're going through
a separation and it it has definitely caused tormoil between
me and the children. And I get a lot of
mixed feedback from certain individuals of my circle, to include
(03:23):
you know, lawyers and things, and a lot of times
I get they're grown adults now, you know, And I
think people miss the fact that grown adult or child
is still our children. I don't think it changes the
level of effect and hurt. So I'm just looking to
find out, Hey, you know, how do I, as a
father kind of re established the relationship, you know, the
(03:45):
connection of the child and how do I put myself
in a position to be that father again or is
it that it's a new relationship mm hmm. First of all,
how beautiful is that that you have been in their
life since they were born? Yes, ma'am. How long has
(04:06):
this separation or divorce? How long has that been going on?
So the separation has been going on for close to
three years. The divorce started legally back in April. Um.
The relationship of me and my children has been tainted
for well over a year now mm hmm. The reason
(04:28):
I asked that is because your seventeen year old daughter
was fourteens when this breakdown began, and the two year
old daughter was nineteen when this breakdown began. And when
we say the breakdown, that's me physically leaving the separation.
Prior to that, there was trauma here and there with
arguments and things that they were exposed to. Nothing physical,
(04:50):
but definitely the normal yelling and screaming, which is why
the separation happened. I chose to leave because we couldn't
communicate anymore. Yeah, and the children are always collateral damage.
So are both of the daughters distant from you or
is it just one? Or where does the problem seem
(05:11):
to me? It's definitely both both, okay? And what does
that look like? What does the separation? What does this
breakdown look like? Between you? And the lack of communication?
I think there are times where they feel that my
tone loud, which affects the communication. There's also the reaching
(05:33):
out and not responding for a couple of days or
not at all m hm. And that's where I feel
the foundation is not there. It's like, how do I rebuild?
We can't get aligned on communicating just to respond to
a text or endo, a phone call to it that
you're okay or I love you mm hm. Because that
(05:54):
doesn't exist. I find myself poking to try to figure
out how do I get a response? Yeah, what is
the story they tell about why you and their mother
are divorcing? Do you know? That parton though? But I
do know that their main issue that they've expressed to
me is how I responded to their grandparents during the
(06:21):
situation where me as the father, I wanted to understand
where my kids were at the time. Like you said,
Cameron's about the team, and she would spend the night
out or be at night out and I would find
out after she came back, and that just didn't sit well.
So grandparents got involved in a conversation between me and
the spouse. You know, my tone was very aggressive. I'm
(06:46):
not gonna respect me, didn't want my children you can
leave my house at a very aggressive tone m hm.
And unfortunately, when I look at it now, I understand
why the kids are hurt because Dad was the act
of due for twenty years and the grandparents played a
very vital role, and they still played a vital role
in their lives. So I understand the hurt, but I'm
(07:09):
also believe in there's a place when adults are having
arguments children me to stay out of it. But this
you're dealing with a new kind of young person today.
You're not dealing with the kind of young person that
we were or that you were. How old are you, sir,
I'm forty two years old. Man. Okay, yeah, so you
come from a different generation. You're a millennial, you're right.
(07:32):
And on top of the fact, my grandfather raised me.
So with my grandfather raised me, I know I had
some some old tendencies that may not you know, working
today's age. So you know, we try to find different
ways in different approaches. And your military yes, merrily tired.
So you're rough, I'm telling you right now, you're rough,
(07:53):
I am. You know. There are four types of parents.
There's the drill sergeant parents, there's to make them happy errant,
there's the inaccessible or unresponsive parent, and then there's the
responsible parent and all of us, you know, at some
point another cross one of those lines where the the
jill sergeant do it because I said, do it do
(08:15):
it this way, or where the okay, okay, okay, let
me just make the child happy, or we're like, look,
go somewhere and leave me alone. I don't have time
for you. And then there's the okay, wait one second,
I'll be with you. Come tell me what the problem is.
If you had to classify your entire parenting history with
(08:36):
your two daughters, what would be your top line? Jill sergeant, responsible, unavailable,
make them happy. I think I was balanced in between
make them happy, responsible and drill sey. Okay, probably responsible
was down on the bottom wrong because being military, you
(09:00):
probably weren't even aware of just your posture, how you stand,
how you speak, you know, right, So, as the drill
sergeant parent, make them happy, and that usually grows out
of guilt if you're not around. When you are around,
you want to make them happy. You want to give
them this, you want to take them Okay, okay, good.
(09:24):
So what happens in that instance when you're the drill
sergeant is you have you you're trying to make them perfect,
and then when they see your imperfections, what happens is
they call it a contradiction or they say you are hypocrite,
(09:45):
and then they're torn because here you come with the
goodies and the money and the toys and the gifts,
and let's go out and then they feel blackmailed. So
it sounds to me I could be wrong somewhere somehow
in that hypocritical perfectionists. I got goodies, I'm daddy, I'm
(10:08):
gonna take care of you. They have lost respect for you,
And I could say I definitely agree with that. Yeah,
you touched on a very you know, you'll be away
for eighteen months, you'll be away for a year, you
come back, and then I would go on overdrive. I
was coached when I was home. I was I was
my daughter's vocal coach and manager. And you go from
(10:30):
trying to do that, not you. I own it. I
want you to own it. I go, I go back
into that right. Yeah, but you're spot on as far
as the relationship, and I can definitely see, especially over time,
all that can manifest yourself into what it is right now. Yeah,
I want you to understand. That's what the ghost thing
(10:51):
or the silence is about. They're torn and they feel
in one sense that you are hypocritical, and in another sense,
because your daddy and they do have those memories and
you do have a relationship with them, their hearts are
broken because they don't want to hate you. But they're
(11:14):
really they're really kind of piste off right now, you're right,
all right, listen to me. I want you to listen
to me with your with your shoulders and your backbone.
I want you to hear this. Okay, yes, ma'am, you're
not gonna lose your daughters because your relationship with them
(11:38):
was established by the time they were five. But as
you so wisely sad, you've got to build a new
relationship with them. You have to build a new relationship
with two young women. You're no longer parenting children. You're
(12:00):
parenting two young women. Right, You're not going to lose
your daughters. You've got to get that in your body.
I know you wanted to look like this. That's the
that's the drill sergeant. Put him in the closet right now,
Send him off, deploy him somewhere, because what you're doing
(12:21):
with the calling and the poking, that's what you're triggering
up for them, the drill sergeant, and he is the hypocrite.
We do not want him participating in this healing. Okay, Yes,
and I really want you to hear that you're not
going to lose your daughters because that fear and that
belief is making you aggressive. If you just want to
(12:44):
let them know I love you, that's a card. I
love you, and I understand why we can't speak right now.
That's a card. I love you and I understand how
I messed up. That's a card. Mhm, what's the butt?
(13:05):
I hear the butt? What is it? I've heard anger
and I'm trying to push aside to why No, let's
let that out. We do not want to push that aside.
We wanted to come out. We want to give it
a voice. We want to express it because you trying
(13:25):
to hold onto it. That's what they feel, right. They
can't manage that. That's too much. And we'll talk about
that when we come back. Welcome back to the our spot.
Let's pick up where we left off. Can we go
(13:48):
a little deeper here? Okay, take a breath. Oh, let's
start here. I'm angry because I want you to repeat
that and complete it. I'm angry because I feel like
I've failed to give them a life that I wanted
(14:11):
them to have. Okay, I think it'd be happy and
just everything that they want to be for themselves. And
I always wanted to make sure that they had the
tools and resources, and that I could be there alongside
them just be that oversight. I feel like I failed
(14:31):
them because I I walked away from the marriage. I left,
but I felt it was the right thing to do
because the thing that they were seeing was just not
what they should have seen as far as communication between
someone that is supposed to be a significant other. So
(14:52):
I've never given up anything in my entire life, never
gave up. And I feel like I've given up on
them by walking away from the marriage. And unfortunately, the
painting their feelings is far greater than what I would
imagine it was. And I'm in a position I don't
not respond to it, and you feel weak. I don't
(15:15):
know how to respond, and I feel that I do.
I feel weak, depleted. Uh huh, this is the first
time I've never felt like this in my entire life.
This is different. A man shouldn't fel this type. This
is a different type of energy. Yet, a man shouldn't
feel that. A man is not feeling that, a father
is feeling it. M hm, give yourself permission to feel it. Mr. Military,
(15:43):
what branch were you? Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines? I
was actively Air Force man. Okay, So you really, You've
got strict regulations, because if you don't follow the strict regulations,
somebody could die when I see. Yeah, but that's not
(16:03):
what's going on here. I feel like I failed. Then
I wanted them to be happy, and I walked away.
I've never failed at anything, and now I failed at
being a father. They saw too much, they heard too much.
(16:24):
They hurt because of what I didn't do, and now
I don't know what to do. I feel weak and
depleted and I shouldn't feel this way. M hm. Did
I get it all? Man? Yeah? Yeah, be right there.
(16:47):
So I'm gonna say this to you, and you're not
going to believe me. Okay, Small, you didn't do anything,
ang and you have not failed. You may have walked
away from the marriage because you were stepping into what
(17:13):
you value and what matters for you. You're in a
state of transition because what's happening is you're stuck in
your head and all of this that I shared with you,
feeling like a fail. You're walking away that that they
saw too much. But Papa, that's all down in your
body and the reason you're in pain is because you're
(17:36):
living from the neck up. You gotta live from the
neck down. Tell me what you heard me say. You
don't have to repeat my words, but tell me what
you're hearing inside of you right now. Just want them
to be okay. They are okay, they are. It's you
(18:01):
that's not okay. Tell me what's going on in your
mind right now. I'm talking to you and I'm thinking
about the shows that I've seen, and I'm trying to
digest the vision of just the information that you've given
me so I can process it. Well, You've got to
(18:22):
surrender control. You're trying to control everything. You're trying to
control how you feel. You're trying to control what they do.
You're trying to control what this looks like. And what
you have to do is be here right now and
right now. You are broken hearted daddy. You're a broken
hearted daddy. Would that be accurate? Just say yes, definitely
(18:49):
give yourself permission to be a broken hearted daddy. Because
the military guy can't solve this. You can't. So I'm
gonna take you right down in the pit while I
got you right on the pit of your belly, right here,
right here, This is what I want you to say.
I forgive myself for what say it. I forgive myself
(19:12):
for I forgive myself for not being here when I
saw time should have been there. No story. I forgive
myself for not being there when I think I should
have been. Take a breath. What else? I forgive myself
for my tone at times? Yeah, okay, what else? Take
(19:35):
a breath, Come on, breathe. I forgive myself for forgive
myself for maybe not hearing them the way that has
heard them if I wasn't put up. We're trying to
fix everything else. Mm hmm. I forgive myself for not
(19:55):
being a good listener. Would that be accurate? Yes? Man, Okay,
come on say it. Own it. I need you to
own it. I forgive myself or not being a good
and active listener as I could have been, not as
you could have been, You could not have been. If
you could have been, you would have been. And that's
where the problem is. You're holding yourself responsible for things
(20:20):
that you didn't know how to do or that you
didn't know was necessary because you've been living a dual life.
What you had to do and live and be to
be in the military to earn the money so that
they could go to the p X and have a
home and and do those things. You had that going
on in your consciousness when Daddy needed a heart, and
(20:42):
Daddy's heart may not have been available because of what
Daddy had to do to be the man in the house.
Come on, you've given these kids a good life. Mm hmm.
Do you know how many twenty two year old and
seventeen year old young women out here don't even know
where their father is and here you are weeping and
(21:03):
balling because they won't talk to you. Come on, brother,
give yourself a break here and there snot he knows
right now, and it ain't personal personal trust me, I
had three year holes. It is not personal. Okay, what else?
(21:24):
I forgive myself for what I give myself for not
being able to say in the marriage. It's hard because
I felt like it was for them, the girls, and
I need to let that go in People change until
death do us part. But death of what what I
(21:46):
hear you saying. There was a death of communication, There
was a death of civility. There was a death of
compassion between you and their mother. That's none of their
business and they are collateral damage to that. But don't
make what happened in your marriage a part of what
you did or didn't do for your daughters? Did you
(22:10):
give them a good life? Are they living in the shelter? No?
But no means do they have food to eat and
clothes on their back? Yes? And when you were away
for the eighteen months working, were they able to go
to the p X and shop? Were they in a home? Yes? Well,
(22:30):
can you give yourself some credit? I'm trying to well,
why don't you deserve the credit for the good that
you've done. This is not the military, you haven't been
discharged from their life. Give them time to go through this,
because you know what, You're not healthy for them right now,
because you would be so busy from your guilt trying
(22:53):
to make up for buying them stuff and acquiescent to
them that and they would play you like a fiddle. Brother.
I got three of them beasts, I know what they do.
You need to get yourself whole and healed and healthy,
get yourself up. They'll be back. Trust me when I
(23:14):
tell you, they're probably have laundry and I'll be here.
How about I forgive myself for taking care of myself
in a way that has caused my daughter's hurt. You
didn't hurt your daughters, but you leaving the marriage to
(23:36):
take care of yourself cause them hurt. Can you forgive
yourself for that of that? Yes, because I can give
myself for that. I walked away because it was what
was needed for myself. For them, yeah, not for them,
not for them, Not for them. Just stay in your lane,
(23:57):
stay in your car, in your road or lane in
your world. When I walked away from the marriage because
that's what I needed for me. Because who you were
in the marriage isn't the demonstration you wanted to show
your daughters. Yes, ah good, that's not who you wanted
(24:17):
to be. But you haven't become who you want to
be yet. You're still in that process of managing your
tone and learning how to listen and giving yourself credit
and forgiving yourself. This is your process now, because even
(24:41):
if they showed up today, you'd be so busy apologizing
and bending over backwards and guilt. It wouldn't be healthy.
Does that make sense. We'll talk more about it when
we come back. Welcome back. I am y'm lt. This
(25:08):
is the our spot. Tell me how open you are
to getting some help and support, and I'm very open
to any resources. Hear me. You're judging yourself by military standards.
Daddy's don't live by military standards. They live by their heart.
And what you're gonna have to do is go down
(25:28):
in the basement or in the closet and let your heartbreak.
M hmm. You're fighting that tooth and nail. But until
you let your heart break, this stuff is going to
keep floating around in your head and you're just going
to whip yourself to death. I want you to get
some help because as the military guy, you know, he
(25:51):
still has a lot of dominion in your head. And
this is a daddy situation. H This is what I
can tell you as a daughter. Daughters love their daddy's.
They absolutely do. We want to be the princess and
sometimes we'll fight mommy for daddy, you know. But right now,
(26:13):
you've got a couple of things going on, baby, and
this process is gonna take some time. So you're gonna go.
You're gonna get yourself a supply of cards. I love
you cards. You're the greatest thing in the world. Card.
I just wanted to say hi, card. And you pick
a day. I don't care if it's Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday,
(26:34):
and every Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. You're sending each of them
a card. Stop calling, stop texting, don't ever change your
phone number. Yes, man, can I tell you a secret?
Of course? Okay. My daughter passed away and she had
a nine year old daughter, and I raised that nine
(26:56):
year old. I did everything her mother wants at her
to do. I sent her to private high school. I
sent her to college. I supported her all throughout her college.
She never had to work, she never had to do anything.
I wanted her to focus on her studies. M She
(27:18):
came home from college after four years, spent one night
in my house, went to her father's house, who hadn't
been involved in her life. And I haven't seen her
in six years. She doesn't answer my call, she doesn't
respond to my text. So after about a year of
(27:39):
torturing myself, and that sounds like where you're at, torture
and suffering, I had to give her permission to think
whatever she thought, felt whatever she felt, and let her go.
H I had to be willing never to see her
again if that's what would make her happy. It's been
(28:02):
six years and I still pray for her, and I
still love her, and I still know that one day
before I close my eyes for the last time, I'm
gonna see her and wrap her up in my arms.
But I have to be willing to let it be
done on her time, not mine. You just have to
be willing. But you're not gonna be willing until you
(28:23):
process yourself through some of that pain. Please don't try
to do this by yourself. The pain is too deep
and the conflict is too great. But I promise you,
when it happens, you're gonna owe me a dinner or
a pair of shoes. Those are the two things that
makes me happy. Food and shoes. Okay, when they show
(28:49):
up in your life, you're gonna owe me a meal,
and I like some really fancy places, or pair of
shoes or both. I'm not worried you, So tell me something.
You know now that you didn't know when you called something.
I know now that I didn't know I made the
quotes that I didn't fail. Oh good. If you don't
(29:14):
know nothing else, I hope you know that even though
you were away because of your children profession, you gave
them a good life. I hope you know that, and
I hope you know you need help to get through
this next stage of the process. Okay, so when they
call you, I don't care if it's next Tuesday or
two years from now. You owe me a dinner and
(29:35):
a pair of shoes because it's gonna happen. And if
that doesn't work, get back in touch with me and
let me know. And I've got some other people. I
just don't want you out there by yourself. Okay, yes, ma'am.
Can I ask you a question? Of course? Has anybody
told you they love you today? Not today? That would
(29:56):
be a no. I want you to know I love
you today. I absolutely love you today. I love your courage.
I love that you're daddy weeping for his babies. That
is just so exciting to be. In fact, if I
wasn't so old, it would be sexy than you're too much.
(30:21):
But I'm old, so I can't go there. You're not listen.
You heal your heart and go get you a girlfriend. Okay,
that's what you do. Okay, stay in touch with me,
let me know how you're doing. If you just have
to call, I want to keep up with you. Okay,
Thank you very much. I appreciate your time and energy
(30:42):
and just everything that you put on the table for
me to be able to look at and have some
options and just things too to see differently. So thank
you for your time and once again it was to
be able to talk to you. You don't even know
how many times are just shows on a little hard
drives and being deployed location and watching your show and
guys are coming like are you watching them? Like? Man
(31:03):
so well, I appreciate it and take some time. Don't
just get off this phone and go do something. Sit
with what you've heard, let it ruminate in you. I
really think it would be supportive for you to get
below your neck. Love you mean it, See you soon,
Bye bye. I want to say to all the men
(31:28):
out there who are listening, or the women who are
listening who have men in their lives that need to listen.
I want to say to you, daddy's give yourself permission
to let your heart break, because until you drop into
your heart and clear out all of those feelings of
(31:49):
guilt or sadness, or anger or fear, they will be
a barrier between you and your children and you and
their mother. Daddies have a right to experience heartbreak, and
the only thing that keeps them from doing it is
what they think other people will think about them. Daddy's
(32:15):
let your heartbreak because that's the step to your healing.
I hope this has been helpful to someone, and if
you have a question about this or any other relationship issue,
you can call me live at seven seven five three
zero seven seven seven six eight. Now be sure to
follow me on social media for all of the calling times,
(32:37):
and until then, stay in peace and not pieces. The
Our Spot is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio,
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
(33:01):
you listen to your favorite shows.
I am a Yamla. I've been very open about the
fact that I was not always good at making my
relationships work. I have been divorced three times, twice from
the same person. In other words, I have seen a
lot and failed a lot in my relationships. So I
am here to share with you what I learned along
(00:23):
the way, because I did take copious notes. Welcome to
the Our Spot, a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
with our Heart Radio. You know, sometimes as women, I
(00:48):
think that we think that men don't have feelings and
they don't have hearts. Now, sometimes it's because of the
way that they behave and sometimes it's because of the
stories we make up about them. I also think that
sometimes men don't know how to say what they feel,
(01:09):
and as women, we don't know how to hear it.
Sometimes I think we're so busy trying to talk them
out of what they're thinking that we don't give honor
to their feeling. I put a call out and I
said I wanted to talk to man, because I know
the one place a man is willing to be vulnerable
(01:31):
and share his heart is when it comes to dealing
with his children. And sometimes as mothers and women. We
don't honor and respect a man's heart as a father.
So my hope is that and listening to my next
(01:52):
caller my guests for today, that women will rethink what
they think about how men bel Take a listen tweetings beloved,
welcome to the art spot. Wow, how are you? Man?
I'm blessed? How are you? I'm in r right now
(02:14):
because you're one of my favorite people and I'm just
in shock right now. So this is amazing. Well, take
a breath. I'm crying. Thank you for calling. I'm always
amazed and encouraged by the amount of courage it takes
for someone to be so vulnerable to call and talk
(02:35):
to basically a stranger. So you're in all with me.
I'm in all with you. So we're just awe struck.
How about that? And awesome? Sounds good? Man, sounds good?
So how can I support you today? Let's talk about
your relationship challenge, issue, dilemma. What's going on? So I
currently going through a divorce which is spilled over into
(02:58):
the to the children. Two children, one's about to be
twenty two and one just turned seventeen. I've been active
father in their life since birth. I've been married to
their mother since they were both born. We're going through
a separation and it it has definitely caused tormoil between
me and the children. And I get a lot of
mixed feedback from certain individuals of my circle, to include
(03:23):
you know, lawyers and things, and a lot of times
I get they're grown adults now, you know, And I
think people miss the fact that grown adult or child
is still our children. I don't think it changes the
level of effect and hurt. So I'm just looking to
find out, Hey, you know, how do I, as a
father kind of re established the relationship, you know, the
(03:45):
connection of the child and how do I put myself
in a position to be that father again or is
it that it's a new relationship mm hmm. First of all,
how beautiful is that that you have been in their
life since they were born? Yes, ma'am. How long has
(04:06):
this separation or divorce? How long has that been going on?
So the separation has been going on for close to
three years. The divorce started legally back in April. Um.
The relationship of me and my children has been tainted
for well over a year now mm hmm. The reason
(04:28):
I asked that is because your seventeen year old daughter
was fourteens when this breakdown began, and the two year
old daughter was nineteen when this breakdown began. And when
we say the breakdown, that's me physically leaving the separation.
Prior to that, there was trauma here and there with
arguments and things that they were exposed to. Nothing physical,
(04:50):
but definitely the normal yelling and screaming, which is why
the separation happened. I chose to leave because we couldn't
communicate anymore. Yeah, and the children are always collateral damage.
So are both of the daughters distant from you or
is it just one? Or where does the problem seem
(05:11):
to me? It's definitely both both, okay? And what does
that look like? What does the separation? What does this
breakdown look like? Between you? And the lack of communication?
I think there are times where they feel that my
tone loud, which affects the communication. There's also the reaching
(05:33):
out and not responding for a couple of days or
not at all m hm. And that's where I feel
the foundation is not there. It's like, how do I rebuild?
We can't get aligned on communicating just to respond to
a text or endo, a phone call to it that
you're okay or I love you mm hm. Because that
(05:54):
doesn't exist. I find myself poking to try to figure
out how do I get a response? Yeah, what is
the story they tell about why you and their mother
are divorcing? Do you know? That parton though? But I
do know that their main issue that they've expressed to
me is how I responded to their grandparents during the
(06:21):
situation where me as the father, I wanted to understand
where my kids were at the time. Like you said,
Cameron's about the team, and she would spend the night
out or be at night out and I would find
out after she came back, and that just didn't sit well.
So grandparents got involved in a conversation between me and
the spouse. You know, my tone was very aggressive. I'm
(06:46):
not gonna respect me, didn't want my children you can
leave my house at a very aggressive tone m hm.
And unfortunately, when I look at it now, I understand
why the kids are hurt because Dad was the act
of due for twenty years and the grandparents played a
very vital role, and they still played a vital role
in their lives. So I understand the hurt, but I'm
(07:09):
also believe in there's a place when adults are having
arguments children me to stay out of it. But this
you're dealing with a new kind of young person today.
You're not dealing with the kind of young person that
we were or that you were. How old are you, sir,
I'm forty two years old. Man. Okay, yeah, so you
come from a different generation. You're a millennial, you're right.
(07:32):
And on top of the fact, my grandfather raised me.
So with my grandfather raised me, I know I had
some some old tendencies that may not you know, working
today's age. So you know, we try to find different
ways in different approaches. And your military yes, merrily tired.
So you're rough, I'm telling you right now, you're rough,
(07:53):
I am. You know. There are four types of parents.
There's the drill sergeant parents, there's to make them happy errant,
there's the inaccessible or unresponsive parent, and then there's the
responsible parent and all of us, you know, at some
point another cross one of those lines where the the
jill sergeant do it because I said, do it do
(08:15):
it this way, or where the okay, okay, okay, let
me just make the child happy, or we're like, look,
go somewhere and leave me alone. I don't have time
for you. And then there's the okay, wait one second,
I'll be with you. Come tell me what the problem is.
If you had to classify your entire parenting history with
(08:36):
your two daughters, what would be your top line? Jill sergeant, responsible, unavailable,
make them happy. I think I was balanced in between
make them happy, responsible and drill sey. Okay, probably responsible
was down on the bottom wrong because being military, you
(09:00):
probably weren't even aware of just your posture, how you stand,
how you speak, you know, right, So, as the drill
sergeant parent, make them happy, and that usually grows out
of guilt if you're not around. When you are around,
you want to make them happy. You want to give
them this, you want to take them Okay, okay, good.
(09:24):
So what happens in that instance when you're the drill
sergeant is you have you you're trying to make them perfect,
and then when they see your imperfections, what happens is
they call it a contradiction or they say you are hypocrite,
(09:45):
and then they're torn because here you come with the
goodies and the money and the toys and the gifts,
and let's go out and then they feel blackmailed. So
it sounds to me I could be wrong somewhere somehow
in that hypocritical perfectionists. I got goodies, I'm daddy, I'm
(10:08):
gonna take care of you. They have lost respect for you,
And I could say I definitely agree with that. Yeah,
you touched on a very you know, you'll be away
for eighteen months, you'll be away for a year, you
come back, and then I would go on overdrive. I
was coached when I was home. I was I was
my daughter's vocal coach and manager. And you go from
(10:30):
trying to do that, not you. I own it. I
want you to own it. I go, I go back
into that right. Yeah, but you're spot on as far
as the relationship, and I can definitely see, especially over time,
all that can manifest yourself into what it is right now. Yeah,
I want you to understand. That's what the ghost thing
(10:51):
or the silence is about. They're torn and they feel
in one sense that you are hypocritical, and in another sense,
because your daddy and they do have those memories and
you do have a relationship with them, their hearts are
broken because they don't want to hate you. But they're
(11:14):
really they're really kind of piste off right now, you're right,
all right, listen to me. I want you to listen
to me with your with your shoulders and your backbone.
I want you to hear this. Okay, yes, ma'am, you're
not gonna lose your daughters because your relationship with them
(11:38):
was established by the time they were five. But as
you so wisely sad, you've got to build a new
relationship with them. You have to build a new relationship
with two young women. You're no longer parenting children. You're
(12:00):
parenting two young women. Right, You're not going to lose
your daughters. You've got to get that in your body.
I know you wanted to look like this. That's the
that's the drill sergeant. Put him in the closet right now,
Send him off, deploy him somewhere, because what you're doing
(12:21):
with the calling and the poking, that's what you're triggering
up for them, the drill sergeant, and he is the hypocrite.
We do not want him participating in this healing. Okay, Yes,
and I really want you to hear that you're not
going to lose your daughters because that fear and that
belief is making you aggressive. If you just want to
(12:44):
let them know I love you, that's a card. I
love you, and I understand why we can't speak right now.
That's a card. I love you and I understand how
I messed up. That's a card. Mhm, what's the butt?
(13:05):
I hear the butt? What is it? I've heard anger
and I'm trying to push aside to why No, let's
let that out. We do not want to push that aside.
We wanted to come out. We want to give it
a voice. We want to express it because you trying
(13:25):
to hold onto it. That's what they feel, right. They
can't manage that. That's too much. And we'll talk about
that when we come back. Welcome back to the our spot.
Let's pick up where we left off. Can we go
(13:48):
a little deeper here? Okay, take a breath. Oh, let's
start here. I'm angry because I want you to repeat
that and complete it. I'm angry because I feel like
I've failed to give them a life that I wanted
(14:11):
them to have. Okay, I think it'd be happy and
just everything that they want to be for themselves. And
I always wanted to make sure that they had the
tools and resources, and that I could be there alongside
them just be that oversight. I feel like I failed
(14:31):
them because I I walked away from the marriage. I left,
but I felt it was the right thing to do
because the thing that they were seeing was just not
what they should have seen as far as communication between
someone that is supposed to be a significant other. So
(14:52):
I've never given up anything in my entire life, never
gave up. And I feel like I've given up on
them by walking away from the marriage. And unfortunately, the
painting their feelings is far greater than what I would
imagine it was. And I'm in a position I don't
not respond to it, and you feel weak. I don't
(15:15):
know how to respond, and I feel that I do.
I feel weak, depleted. Uh huh, this is the first
time I've never felt like this in my entire life.
This is different. A man shouldn't fel this type. This
is a different type of energy. Yet, a man shouldn't
feel that. A man is not feeling that, a father
is feeling it. M hm, give yourself permission to feel it. Mr. Military,
(15:43):
what branch were you? Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines? I
was actively Air Force man. Okay, So you really, You've
got strict regulations, because if you don't follow the strict regulations,
somebody could die when I see. Yeah, but that's not
(16:03):
what's going on here. I feel like I failed. Then
I wanted them to be happy, and I walked away.
I've never failed at anything, and now I failed at
being a father. They saw too much, they heard too much.
(16:24):
They hurt because of what I didn't do, and now
I don't know what to do. I feel weak and
depleted and I shouldn't feel this way. M hm. Did
I get it all? Man? Yeah? Yeah, be right there.
(16:47):
So I'm gonna say this to you, and you're not
going to believe me. Okay, Small, you didn't do anything,
ang and you have not failed. You may have walked
away from the marriage because you were stepping into what
(17:13):
you value and what matters for you. You're in a
state of transition because what's happening is you're stuck in
your head and all of this that I shared with you,
feeling like a fail. You're walking away that that they
saw too much. But Papa, that's all down in your
body and the reason you're in pain is because you're
(17:36):
living from the neck up. You gotta live from the
neck down. Tell me what you heard me say. You
don't have to repeat my words, but tell me what
you're hearing inside of you right now. Just want them
to be okay. They are okay, they are. It's you
(18:01):
that's not okay. Tell me what's going on in your
mind right now. I'm talking to you and I'm thinking
about the shows that I've seen, and I'm trying to
digest the vision of just the information that you've given
me so I can process it. Well, You've got to
(18:22):
surrender control. You're trying to control everything. You're trying to
control how you feel. You're trying to control what they do.
You're trying to control what this looks like. And what
you have to do is be here right now and
right now. You are broken hearted daddy. You're a broken
hearted daddy. Would that be accurate? Just say yes, definitely
(18:49):
give yourself permission to be a broken hearted daddy. Because
the military guy can't solve this. You can't. So I'm
gonna take you right down in the pit while I
got you right on the pit of your belly, right here,
right here, This is what I want you to say.
I forgive myself for what say it. I forgive myself
(19:12):
for I forgive myself for not being here when I
saw time should have been there. No story. I forgive
myself for not being there when I think I should
have been. Take a breath. What else? I forgive myself
for my tone at times? Yeah, okay, what else? Take
(19:35):
a breath, Come on, breathe. I forgive myself for forgive
myself for maybe not hearing them the way that has
heard them if I wasn't put up. We're trying to
fix everything else. Mm hmm. I forgive myself for not
(19:55):
being a good listener. Would that be accurate? Yes? Man, Okay,
come on say it. Own it. I need you to
own it. I forgive myself or not being a good
and active listener as I could have been, not as
you could have been, You could not have been. If
you could have been, you would have been. And that's
where the problem is. You're holding yourself responsible for things
(20:20):
that you didn't know how to do or that you
didn't know was necessary because you've been living a dual life.
What you had to do and live and be to
be in the military to earn the money so that
they could go to the p X and have a
home and and do those things. You had that going
on in your consciousness when Daddy needed a heart, and
(20:42):
Daddy's heart may not have been available because of what
Daddy had to do to be the man in the house.
Come on, you've given these kids a good life. Mm hmm.
Do you know how many twenty two year old and
seventeen year old young women out here don't even know
where their father is and here you are weeping and
(21:03):
balling because they won't talk to you. Come on, brother,
give yourself a break here and there snot he knows
right now, and it ain't personal personal trust me, I
had three year holes. It is not personal. Okay, what else?
(21:24):
I forgive myself for what I give myself for not
being able to say in the marriage. It's hard because
I felt like it was for them, the girls, and
I need to let that go in People change until
death do us part. But death of what what I
(21:46):
hear you saying. There was a death of communication, There
was a death of civility. There was a death of
compassion between you and their mother. That's none of their
business and they are collateral damage to that. But don't
make what happened in your marriage a part of what
you did or didn't do for your daughters? Did you
(22:10):
give them a good life? Are they living in the shelter? No?
But no means do they have food to eat and
clothes on their back? Yes? And when you were away
for the eighteen months working, were they able to go
to the p X and shop? Were they in a home? Yes? Well,
(22:30):
can you give yourself some credit? I'm trying to well,
why don't you deserve the credit for the good that
you've done. This is not the military, you haven't been
discharged from their life. Give them time to go through this,
because you know what, You're not healthy for them right now,
because you would be so busy from your guilt trying
(22:53):
to make up for buying them stuff and acquiescent to
them that and they would play you like a fiddle. Brother.
I got three of them beasts, I know what they do.
You need to get yourself whole and healed and healthy,
get yourself up. They'll be back. Trust me when I
(23:14):
tell you, they're probably have laundry and I'll be here.
How about I forgive myself for taking care of myself
in a way that has caused my daughter's hurt. You
didn't hurt your daughters, but you leaving the marriage to
(23:36):
take care of yourself cause them hurt. Can you forgive
yourself for that of that? Yes, because I can give
myself for that. I walked away because it was what
was needed for myself. For them, yeah, not for them,
not for them, Not for them. Just stay in your lane,
(23:57):
stay in your car, in your road or lane in
your world. When I walked away from the marriage because
that's what I needed for me. Because who you were
in the marriage isn't the demonstration you wanted to show
your daughters. Yes, ah good, that's not who you wanted
(24:17):
to be. But you haven't become who you want to
be yet. You're still in that process of managing your
tone and learning how to listen and giving yourself credit
and forgiving yourself. This is your process now, because even
(24:41):
if they showed up today, you'd be so busy apologizing
and bending over backwards and guilt. It wouldn't be healthy.
Does that make sense. We'll talk more about it when
we come back. Welcome back. I am y'm lt. This
(25:08):
is the our spot. Tell me how open you are
to getting some help and support, and I'm very open
to any resources. Hear me. You're judging yourself by military standards.
Daddy's don't live by military standards. They live by their heart.
And what you're gonna have to do is go down
(25:28):
in the basement or in the closet and let your heartbreak.
M hmm. You're fighting that tooth and nail. But until
you let your heart break, this stuff is going to
keep floating around in your head and you're just going
to whip yourself to death. I want you to get
some help because as the military guy, you know, he
(25:51):
still has a lot of dominion in your head. And
this is a daddy situation. H This is what I
can tell you as a daughter. Daughters love their daddy's.
They absolutely do. We want to be the princess and
sometimes we'll fight mommy for daddy, you know. But right now,
(26:13):
you've got a couple of things going on, baby, and
this process is gonna take some time. So you're gonna go.
You're gonna get yourself a supply of cards. I love
you cards. You're the greatest thing in the world. Card.
I just wanted to say hi, card. And you pick
a day. I don't care if it's Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday,
(26:34):
and every Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. You're sending each of them
a card. Stop calling, stop texting, don't ever change your
phone number. Yes, man, can I tell you a secret?
Of course? Okay. My daughter passed away and she had
a nine year old daughter, and I raised that nine
(26:56):
year old. I did everything her mother wants at her
to do. I sent her to private high school. I
sent her to college. I supported her all throughout her college.
She never had to work, she never had to do anything.
I wanted her to focus on her studies. M She
(27:18):
came home from college after four years, spent one night
in my house, went to her father's house, who hadn't
been involved in her life. And I haven't seen her
in six years. She doesn't answer my call, she doesn't
respond to my text. So after about a year of
(27:39):
torturing myself, and that sounds like where you're at, torture
and suffering, I had to give her permission to think
whatever she thought, felt whatever she felt, and let her go.
H I had to be willing never to see her
again if that's what would make her happy. It's been
(28:02):
six years and I still pray for her, and I
still love her, and I still know that one day
before I close my eyes for the last time, I'm
gonna see her and wrap her up in my arms.
But I have to be willing to let it be
done on her time, not mine. You just have to
be willing. But you're not gonna be willing until you
(28:23):
process yourself through some of that pain. Please don't try
to do this by yourself. The pain is too deep
and the conflict is too great. But I promise you,
when it happens, you're gonna owe me a dinner or
a pair of shoes. Those are the two things that
makes me happy. Food and shoes. Okay, when they show
(28:49):
up in your life, you're gonna owe me a meal,
and I like some really fancy places, or pair of
shoes or both. I'm not worried you, So tell me something.
You know now that you didn't know when you called something.
I know now that I didn't know I made the
quotes that I didn't fail. Oh good. If you don't
(29:14):
know nothing else, I hope you know that even though
you were away because of your children profession, you gave
them a good life. I hope you know that, and
I hope you know you need help to get through
this next stage of the process. Okay, so when they
call you, I don't care if it's next Tuesday or
two years from now. You owe me a dinner and
(29:35):
a pair of shoes because it's gonna happen. And if
that doesn't work, get back in touch with me and
let me know. And I've got some other people. I
just don't want you out there by yourself. Okay, yes, ma'am.
Can I ask you a question? Of course? Has anybody
told you they love you today? Not today? That would
(29:56):
be a no. I want you to know I love
you today. I absolutely love you today. I love your courage.
I love that you're daddy weeping for his babies. That
is just so exciting to be. In fact, if I
wasn't so old, it would be sexy than you're too much.
(30:21):
But I'm old, so I can't go there. You're not listen.
You heal your heart and go get you a girlfriend. Okay,
that's what you do. Okay, stay in touch with me,
let me know how you're doing. If you just have
to call, I want to keep up with you. Okay,
Thank you very much. I appreciate your time and energy
(30:42):
and just everything that you put on the table for
me to be able to look at and have some
options and just things too to see differently. So thank
you for your time and once again it was to
be able to talk to you. You don't even know
how many times are just shows on a little hard
drives and being deployed location and watching your show and
guys are coming like are you watching them? Like? Man
(31:03):
so well, I appreciate it and take some time. Don't
just get off this phone and go do something. Sit
with what you've heard, let it ruminate in you. I
really think it would be supportive for you to get
below your neck. Love you mean it, See you soon,
Bye bye. I want to say to all the men
(31:28):
out there who are listening, or the women who are
listening who have men in their lives that need to listen.
I want to say to you, daddy's give yourself permission
to let your heart break, because until you drop into
your heart and clear out all of those feelings of
(31:49):
guilt or sadness, or anger or fear, they will be
a barrier between you and your children and you and
their mother. Daddies have a right to experience heartbreak, and
the only thing that keeps them from doing it is
what they think other people will think about them. Daddy's
(32:15):
let your heartbreak because that's the step to your healing.
I hope this has been helpful to someone, and if
you have a question about this or any other relationship issue,
you can call me live at seven seven five three
zero seven seven seven six eight. Now be sure to
follow me on social media for all of the calling times,
(32:37):
and until then, stay in peace and not pieces. The
Our Spot is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio,
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
(33:01):
you listen to your favorite shows.
Host
Iyanla Vanzant
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