June 14, 2023 • 44 mins
A mother is at her wit’s end with her son, who is now lashing out at her and calling her names. Despite the caller’s best efforts to be a good mother and provide everything for her son, who she adopted and raised as her own, things in their relationship have devolved to threats of violence. Iyanla guides the caller toward letting her heart break first, and then finding a way to move forward.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I am Yamla, your host for this journey. I was
a hopeless love aholic but just could not get my
love to work. Then, after a series of heartbreaks and
deep heartache, I finally got clear about what love is
and what it is not. I want to share some
(00:22):
of what I've learned about love a holism. Welcome to
the r Spot, a production of shandaland Audio in partnership
with iHeartRadio. I used to think that one of the
(00:47):
most precious, sacred, and challenging relationships was the relationship between
a mother and a daughter, because so very often the
mother sees and the daughter things that she doesn't like
about herself, and the daughter sees in the mother things
that she never wants to be, and she ends up
being that way. I mean, I could tell you stories
(01:11):
about the beauty, the power, the value, the hardships, the challenges,
the difficulties of the relationship between a mother and a daughter. Woo,
but baby, let me tell you something. In my wisdom years,
I have discovered that one of the most precious, fragile,
(01:39):
and difficult relationships on the planet is the relationship between
a mother and a son. If you want a first
class ticket to heartbreak, and crazy. Take a look at
the relationship between the mother and the son. Because a
man is who his mother makes him. The king is
(02:04):
the king not because he sits in the throne, but
because his mother prepared him, fed him the food, called
in the right people, let him go, pulled him in,
did all of the things that prepares him to sit
in the throne as the king. The mother becomes the
template that a man uses in his relationships with women.
(02:28):
And if that template is solid and clear, if it's
laid with loving care and concern, that man is going
to have good relationships with women and himself. But when
there are cracks and tears and fragments in the template
(02:49):
that a mother uses to grow her son up, baby
is gonna be rough. And the challenge is that a
mother's intentions, her best intentions, and her way of being
is not translated with accuracy into the child's experience. The
(03:10):
mother will set up parameters and dynamics and situations that
she thinks will give the child, the son what he needs,
and he experiences it in a very different way. Why
because she's feminine and he's masculine. It can be a
hot mess. And then we think it gets easier. But
(03:34):
what happens is when that boy child becomes a man,
the mother has to learn how to parent an adult man.
And if she's got any issues with men, baby Ah,
this is the stuff that therapy is made of. So
there are some things that a mother must consider when
(03:59):
she's paring her son who is an adult. I mean
there are issues and challenges with all parents who forget
that this child has now grown up and become an adult.
But when it comes to a mother parenting and adult son,
there are just certain things that have to be taken
(04:20):
into consideration. I am so grateful for my caller today
because she's providing us with an opportunity to look at
some of those things. Here's our call. Greetings beloved, welcome
to the R spot. And what is your situation, your
(04:43):
relationship situation that we can talk about, nibbylon and explore today.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Good morning, is an honor to speak with you, ironic
with you and I both share the same birthday.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Oh well, how wonderful That means that we're crazy?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Please I hope not.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Oh yeah, we are so don't even hope that a
Virgo mother. A Virgo mother is a perfectionist, highly critical, judgmental,
and I say that because I know these things to
be true about myself. That's not our intention.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Oh that I accept everything he just said. I completely
accept that. So you are one hundred percent right. So
I have a son twenty one years old, adopted. I
was married at the time, adopted him right before he
turned three. You know, he was aware of his birth mother,
so he was no secret. We had pictures, YadA, YadA, YadA.
(05:42):
His dad and I got separated and divorced in twenty twelve,
and right after that occurred, his dad immediately moved out
of state, so that was pretty traumatic for him. But
I did make sure that they had a relationship where
I even paid for my son's flights to see his
father every summer. So again, I did all that I
(06:03):
could do to keep him tied to his dad. Right now,
we're in a very very gainful place, and I just
don't know how to process it having just this one child.
He's twenty one. I did get remarried about two and
a half years ago. The gentleman and I dated for
about six seven years. We did not move in together
(06:26):
because I wanted to make sure that my son knew
that he had my attention, but we did date and
my son was a part of that. The guy would
come over, we would do things together. My current husband
has two older sons, a little bit older than my son,
and we did do things as a group. He went
to all my son's games, He took my son to practice,
(06:47):
so he was a pretty active part of my son's life.
Once he moved in, things did kind of go south.
He moved in a year before we got married. We
moved into a brand play so he did not move
into my son's home. We moved into a brand new
place and from there it went downwards where my son
(07:10):
I think he just had trouble accepting this person in
our homes. He did have the type of father that
was very negative. Don't listen to this man. He's not
your father. So I think that played into my son's
mental capacity. And now we're at a place where he's
almost I shouldn't say almost, he's abusive toward me. I've
(07:33):
reached out my hand. He doesn't come over. I haven't
seen him in a year. Holidays come and go, Mother's Day.
I get the calls and the text of hey Mom, yeah,
I'm gonna come and see you. Yeah, you know I'll
come and see you. He completely goes ghost on me,
and his texts to go from zero to one hundred
real quick. And I'm just at the point now where
(07:56):
it's like when his name pops up, I get tense,
my stomach goes flip flop, and I just need to
figure out how do I, for lack of a better term,
I have to cut him off, just for my peace.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Talk to me about your sadness.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Mom. Oh, the sadness is immense because you know, in
this world of social media, you see all of your
friends have kids that are older and they're able to
do things. You know, Holidays are wrenching for me because,
like I said, I've got a great husband that has
two older kids, both in grad school. They call their
(08:35):
dad constantly. They make the time, they'll text him and say, hey,
we want to come and see we haven't seen you.
So it's as a mom having one child and holidays
are so painful. But you have to keep it in
because you don't want to seem like you're hating on
those that have the blessing of a kid that wants
(08:56):
to be around them.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Well not. You have to keep it in. I have
to keep it in own your pain.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, I have to keep it in because I don't
want to bring others down.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Well, that's not your responsibility, but we'll talk about that later.
Talk to me about the guilt.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
It's just the guilt of you. Always mothers are always
told that you've got to be just. I always have
felt that moms are supposed to always be there for
their kids no matter what. So it's just a sense
of guilt of how do I balance protecting myself from him, because,
(09:34):
like I said, his tech and his words are very nasty,
to the point of him calling me names every day.
He called me the inward, Inward, don't talk to me
that way, and it's it's just mind blowing that a
young man would talk to his mom that way. And
so the guilt I have is really wanting to not
(09:54):
have anything to do with him at this time. But
it's just I feel the guilt of as a mom,
you're not supposed to do that. You're supposed to just
be in there and fight for your kids.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
You know. There's an ancient African proverb that says a
mother will never eat her child. She would starve to
death before she raised her hand to harm or hurt
or eat her child. And I don't mean eat as
in you know, chewing and swallowing, but a child, if
(10:29):
they're hungry enough, will eat the mother. Wow. And the
way we see that play out sometimes is the child
will put on the mother, take from the mother, ask
of the mother, and it's almost as if you have
to continue loving me, no matter how badly I behave.
(10:49):
So the mother will never eat the child, but if
pushed to hunger, the child will eat the mother. So
that sounds like what we have going on here.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I was like, here's a for instance. You know, we
have this really bad back and forth, but as the mom,
you keep I keep trying. So for instance, a couple
of weeks ago, Mom, I need twenty dollars. So of
course I am always trying to prove myself that I
am a good mom, I am worthy. So I responded
to his text and said, you know, okay, I'll send it.
And he said, you know, I get paid tomorrow and
(11:21):
i'll give it back. And I said, okay, you know,
you need to keep your word, even though I know
I knowelled that he won't, but in my mind I
have that glimmer of hope I send him the money
and then he goes dark on me. I don't hear
from him nothing, and it just it eats you up
because you knew what was going to happen, but in
the back of your mind you keep it.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Eats me up. It eats me up. It eats me up.
Don't externalize it, take it in. It eats me up.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
It eats me up. Yes, that I knew that that
was going to happen, and that I still did it.
And then weeks later, when we're conversating on something else,
he throws it back in my faith and you're sweating
me for that little twenty dollars and I'm thinking you
didn't have it, you came to me for it, and
now you throw it back in my face that I'm
(12:11):
sweating you to get my little twenty dollars. It's those
type of mental games that are wearing on me. And
that's why I reached out to you, because I need
to figure out what to do with what I know.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Well, this is a classic classic eraror that moms make okay,
and then you're a virgo mom, so you make it
to the tenth degree. Let me just point out a
few things for you. He's twenty one. He's living on
his own. He's acting like a man. Yeah, yes, well,
one of the hallmarks of manhood is that a man
(12:47):
keeps his word. But when he calls you acting like
a child, MA, I need twenty dollars, you give it
to him with the expectation that he won't give it back.
And then when he doesn't give it back and he
acts out like a child, you get upset because he's
not behaving like a man. Here's another possibility. When he
(13:11):
calls and asks you for twenty dollars, you simply say,
boo boo, I don't know what his name is. You've
ruined your credit with me. But see, because you're afraid
to upset him, You're afraid to let him go. You're
afraid that he'll get upset with you. You keep engaging him
like a child and expecting him to respond like a man.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
One hundred percent, you're right. It's just like you said,
I keep holding on to this hope that I'm going
to have this magical moment where all of a sudden
he's going to be who I want him to be.
And you're right, that's not going to happen.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
If he's a man. Does he call you and say, Mom,
I'm getting laid tonight. Does he call you and say
that no. Does he call you and say, Mom, buying
a bottle of wine or I'm smoking some happy flowers.
Does he call you and say that No, but he'll
call you for twenty dollars. That's called he's eating you.
He's gonna play. Listen, children know their parents triggers and
(14:11):
weak spots. They know he knows how to play you,
So he plays you like a fiddle. That's what's called
the child will eat the parent. The child will eat
the mother. See him as a man, Hold him as
a man, Expect him as a man, because you're giving
him the twenty dollars, not expecting him to give it
back to you, and then you want to challenge him
(14:33):
to give it back to you. Yes, the twenty dollars
to fifty whatever it is. No, No, you're a man.
You living on your own, cover your basics.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
No, I'm going to say, but you know what I
think a lot of it is. And I can be
completely honest with you, and I'm going to use the eyeword.
I'm living in fear of him because he talks very aggressive, like,
for instance, when we were talking about the money and
that type of thing. His text to me was, I'm
not to let you talk crazy to me. I will
(15:02):
pull up at any time. Don't forget that.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Say he's really really angry, I have a fear. No, no,
don't fear him. Take that, well, let me not say
that out loud in the public. He need to fear you.
Something happened. Something happened. I don't know where you overcompensated
or where you failed to create boundaries. My son is
(15:29):
fifty four and he's still scared of me because he
knows I will pull up on him at any moment
and it won't be pretty.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
But can I accept he's never had that fear that
I still have what my mom rests, you know, she's
not living, But he never had that, And that was one.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Of the things.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
You didn't create boundaries. You didn't create boundaries. You overcompensated.
And it probably goes back to why you adopted him
in the first place. Why did you adopt as a
to having natural children?
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Right, it's the natural way. It didn't work, And I
think in the back of my mind adoption was always
something that I had wanted to do but did try
the old fashioned way before adoption was tried.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
So as a woman, hear me. This is not a
judgment or criticism. I want to help you get to
the root and the core, and you are probably not
going to like it. Are you ready? Okay, okay, we'll
do it right after this break, welcome back to the
(16:40):
r spot. Let's pick up where we left off. As
a woman, there was some failure, inadequacy, something I don't know.
You have to give it the word because you couldn't
have your own children. Adoption wasn't your first choice, although
you made that choice, but the underlying, the underbelly in there,
(17:03):
it's like I gotta prove, I gotta prove. So maybe
perhaps I'm willing to be wrong that unconscious thought of
failure or unworthiness or inadequacy. You over indulged this child someplace.
You over indulged him. Tell me what you hear me saying.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
That I potentially created the monster that I have right now?
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Ah? Yeah, A man is who is mother makes them.
I don't care who he is.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
I was a strict mom, but not to the point
of like how my parents were where I never could
go to the dance of the party, but I always
did compare to his friend's parents who had no boundaries
and they could go wherever they wanted. And I was
one of those old school moms that whose house are
you going to? What time will you be home? So
(18:01):
he did have boundaries and that was one of the
things he hated because he was surrounded by young men
that had zero boundaries.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Okay, you call them boundaries. He calls them restriction and control.
But that's not what he's angry with you about. Absolutely not.
He's not angry with you about that. The things you
have to look at because if his texts are coming
to you like that, there's something that you did or
(18:32):
did not do at some point. And maybe it's because,
you know, again over compensation. You didn't want him to feel,
you know, any less. Because he was adopted someplace, he
was taught, trained, led to believe that he could talk
(18:52):
to you like that. Maybe around sixteen seventeen you argued
with him or allowed him to argue with you. Usually
it happens in that frame because with thinking, I got
to give him a chance to express himself. Yeah, but
here's a line, cross this and I'm gonna pop you
in your mouth.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
Right, But guess what happened though, So okay, what you
just said, I have done and said, and you know,
as a black mom, I'm going to own this.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
He has been popped. But guess what he called, I'll
protect their circuces on me place. And I had to
go through all that Rick and Moreau, you know, them
coming over being interviewed. You know this was not This
was when he was a little bit younger, like theay
twelve thirteen.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Mm hmmm mm hm and right around the time you
and your husband divorced, right, and.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
We did do therapy. We did I have therapy for him.
We tried joint the people. As he got older. When
people tend to tell him what he doesn't want to hear,
that's when he goes ghosts like he's still doing to
this day. You cannot tell him anything that he does
(20:10):
not agree with.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Is he a leo?
Speaker 2 (20:13):
No, he is a lead bruh. His birthday is October
lib Bra, October twelfth.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Couple of things, mom, And this is going to be
hard to hear. I want to acknowledge you because I
don't hear you talking about him as your adopted son,
but as your son. That's number one, which is great.
I'm glad he knows who that he has a natural
birth mother. And with all that you've done and all
(20:44):
that you've given, and I know as a Virgo mother,
all that you've done and all that you've given. Like
I said, in many cases overcompensating, you are a usual suspect.
One of the reasons he takes his anger out on
you is because he knows you're gonna love him no
matter what. So in some instances, I want you to
(21:07):
hear this, It ain't personal. He just knows that you're
gonna love him no matter what. Here's the hard part.
You gotta be willing to let him go. You've got
to be willing to let him go his anger. I
don't care who the child is. There comes a moment
when they're gonna look for the womb that they came from.
(21:30):
So while he may not voice it, he may not
acknowledge it, he may not think about it, he may
not say it. He's really angry at his mother, but
he takes it out on you because you're his mom.
Does that make sense to.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
You, Yes? Yes.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
We also don't know what he marinated in. We don't
know the condition of the womb that he lived in.
This may be his mom's anger. It may be his
dad's anger. It may be the environment that she was in.
Some of this is etched into his soul, so it
may not be his anger, but he gets to act
(22:10):
it out and at twenty one, and that's a whole
new breed of people. Them young ones, they are a
hot mess anyway, they really are. It's universal. Ye, it's universally.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yeah, you're right, you're right.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yeah. They have a sense of entitlement, they have a
disrespect for authority. They wanted everything their way. So some
of that is just in the planetary placement of this
new generation. What they're actually doing is they're rebelling against
the hypocrisy of the older generations. But because they don't
(22:47):
have a new template yet about how to be in,
what to do, and how to do it, it comes
out as disrespect and it comes out as rebellion and defiance.
That's generational. Seventeen to about twenty five, twenty six, that's
just generational. They are rebelling against the obsolete society of
(23:11):
the older generations, and they are it's obsolete, and they
are challenging our hypocrisy. So that's universal. He's got some
of that going on, and then the anger he may
have picked up in the womb, and the anger that
he feels about what the hell is wrong with me?
That my mother didn't want me? What's wrong with me?
(23:35):
So here you come the virgo by nature, critical, judgmental, overbearing.
And I'm not saying that to you personally. I'm talking
about myself.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
I know, I understand.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Yeah, he's angry in general. And then here you come,
like I said, the judge critical because we're perfectionists. We
want everything, the corners of the sheets and the washcloths
in the cabinet and the sweeping of the floor. I mean,
I'm the kind of virgo mother. I used to fold
my dirty clothes. That's how neurotic I was. Okay, no,
(24:15):
don't put no unfolded clothes in the clothes hemp, fold
them clothes up so that I can shake him out
and put him in the washing machine. But how he
hears that again, because we don't know the condition of
the womb, we don't know the consciousness of the birth mother,
he hears that as critical, judgmental and controlling. And then
(24:36):
a couple of pops in the mouth, pops on the behind,
taking away of privileges that his generation thinks they're entitled to.
So you're just an ogre. I don't like you and
I don't even know you, right, yeah, can you hear me?
So some of some of this, mom, he's just gonna
(24:58):
have to work out. He will work it out, and
it probably won't happen until he's about twenty seven twenty eight,
if my assessment and my observations are accurate. But what
you have to do is you have to hold the line.
First of all, as a man. He can't disrespect no
woman by talking about he gonna pull up on it.
(25:20):
No woman, but certainly not his mother. He done lost
his rabbit behind mine? Something wrong with him?
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Call me the inWORD? I mean, I got a text
last week where he called me the inward his mom.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
And what did you say in response? I don't what
did you say?
Speaker 2 (25:42):
I can't ever remember, but I'm trying to look to
see if I can find it.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
But I mean, well, please find it because I want
to know what you said in response. We'll talk more
about it when we come back. Welcome to the spot.
Let's get back to the conversation.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Oh okay, I did find it. His response to me
was we were talking about a joint account that we
have that I told him I wanted him to close
because I cannot remove my name from it, so the
account has to be closed. So there was a lot
of vacu and forth, and his response to me was,
you could have easily said, hey, I want to close
(26:26):
that account, which is, by the way, that's what I
told him. And he said, look what you Look what
you said? You just a rude inward, I hate you,
and then he said inward, that's not what you said.
Are you slow? I took a pause. I took a moment,
and I responded back, and I said, is everything okay?
(26:47):
What's wrong? Calling me names is not going to help you.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Criticism that's what he heard, criticism. Here's another possibility, again
drawed the line. Stop thinking of him as a little boy.
He's a grown man, and you have to stop parenting
a child and start dealing with a man. Another classic
problem for mothers. We don't know how to parent adults,
(27:13):
so we hold our children to the parameters of them
being children. He's a grown man. I would have here's
another possibility. I'm going to end this communication now because
I have not given you permission to talk to me
in that way, and it's unacceptable. Done you don't accept that.
(27:34):
I don't care who he is. He can't talk to
you like that. First of all, he shouldn't be texting you.
Pick up the phone and call your mother. I know
we're in the twenty first century. He doesn't do well.
That's how they get away with it. He doesn't have
to take responsibility for his behavior because he's anonymous on
(27:55):
the text, right.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
And then after all this, one day I did block him.
And then of course he went to the other people
in the village and they came at me. He went
to he called his dad. Mom blocked me. Can you
believe it? So of course his dad called me, and
then he called My husband's mother is his grandmother. She's
(28:20):
basically been calling him grandson since she met him, and
he called her. So then she called me. So then
I have the village attacking me saying he loves you.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
No, no, you tell them no, no, no, no, no,
they don't have to attack you. You tell the village. Y'all
need to get him straight, because he can't call me
the inward. He can't threaten me. He's a grown man
and I'm a woman. Let's teach him some respect. That's
what you tell the village. They can't attack you. You
have to draw the line. He's a grown man. Stop
(28:54):
looking at him as a child. Who are told him
to the same level of responsibility, accountability and integrity you
would hold it. Could any man in the street roll
up on you and call you the inward? What would
you do if you were at the gas station and
somebody rolled up on you and called you the inward
(29:14):
and told you that they would roll up on you?
What would you do?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
They would hear it for me, and I'd probably get
somebody else involved.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Law enforcements, my husband, somebody. You got a husband, Yeah,
you got two stepsons. He needs to know that they
are protecting and guarding you as a woman, because he's
not coming at you as a mother. He's coming at
you as any hoody on the street because he's angry.
And that's fine, But as twenty one, it's his responsibility
(29:45):
to handle his anger, and I would let him know
how do I.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Everything you're seeing has been scrolling around in my head.
So at this point, going into the rest of this
year and these holidays are about to come up, the
Mother's Day with you know. I just have to kind
of know that they're not going to be what I
had hoped they would be. How do I pivot moving
forward so that this is not for disruptive to my
(30:14):
daily life of Oh my god, is he going to
text today and it's going to blow up.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
First of all, go ahead and let your heart break
that your son is not the man that you wanted
him to be. Just let your heart break about that.
But he's twenty one, he's got a long way to go.
This usually happens around sixteen seventeen eighteen before they go
off to college, and sometime that first year of college.
(30:42):
This usually happens then. So he's got some arrested development,
probably because of the anger and your overcompensation. Let your
heart break, ma Oh, it's broke, but hold him higher,
see him higher. He's just working out whatever he needs
to work out right now to get himself to the
(31:07):
place he needs to be. Once you let your heart
break the sadness of it, and don't hide that from people.
Your pain needs a witness because everybody, your husband, his dad,
or his father, his mother, all of them, all of
them played a role in this. All of them play
the role in this. So don't you let them know.
(31:28):
I'm really really sad and this really really hurts me.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
And I don't do that. You're right, I don't do it.
You're right, I need to let it out. I don't.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
I did classic neurotic virgo behavior. Ask me how I know,
Ask me how I know? Go ahead, ask me how
I know?
Speaker 2 (31:51):
How do you know?
Speaker 3 (31:53):
None of your business the virgo mask of perfection and
let people see the ugly sain I feel right now.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Ah, and that's when you'll get start getting in touch
with what he what he sees in you. Yeah, that's
when you'll see that.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
How will he how will he see it? Though he
won't see it.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
But don't worry about him, because what's going to solidify
your relationship with him is which is probably what he's
going through right now. He's in the stage of developing
intimacy into me C versus isolation. So if there's anything
in him that he thinks is less than unworthy, weak,
(32:49):
whatever as a man, he's going to isolate. He's going
to isolate, and he's not going to be able to
develop intimacy into me C. And the the first person
who sees into you is your mother. So if he's
angry with you, or if he doesn't trust you, or
if he doesn't feel safe with you, he's not going
(33:10):
to let you see into him, and he'll cover that
up with anger or depression or isolation or those kinds
of things. So how you see yourself and your intentions
in your mother ring, that's not what he sees. He
sees the hypocrisy, he sees the control, he sees the manipulation.
(33:36):
He sees those things, or your best intentions, his thwarted
childhood mind turns him into something else where you're trying
to keep him safe and give him, you know, good character.
He sees that as control and manipulation.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Yeah, yep.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
So at this point, let your heart break so that
you feel the sadness and b let go of the fear,
the fear that he's gonna go off and you'll never
see him again, or he's gonna hate you forever or whatever.
At this point, Mom, that's his business. That's not your business.
(34:18):
You gave him the best that you had, and surely,
like all of us, you've made mistakes. But he has
to be a man enough to talk about the mistakes
and how he feels about them. But see you as
who you are. Now. He's probably holding you and mad
at you about something you did at thirteen when he
got his first pubic hair, because once they get a
(34:39):
pubic hair, they lose they durned mind. It ain't personal, No,
it's not.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
But I try to be so different because, like I said,
you know, with my parents, you know that other generation,
they did what they did and there are no, you know,
no apologies. And with me, I tried to be different
than him. I've even tried to apologize. You know, I
told him, I know I wasn't a perfect mom, but
I told him I was a damn.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Good mone according to your standards. But this generation of
entitlement and permissiveness, breaking the rules and the boundaries, rebelling
against the hypocrisy. In your mind, you were a good mom.
In his mind, you were pain in his butt that
didn't give him what he wanted and let him do
what he wanted. That's how he sees.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
That's look at it. You're right, you're right, you're right.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
And why did he end up with you when his
birth mom didn't want him. That's a deep pain. That's
a deep pain. I've worked with a lot of adopted
people adopted adults, and it's not conscious, it's unconscious. And
the ones who do their personal work, their development work,
they get to that and they're able to move through it.
(35:46):
Obviously he has not, but he's got time. So express
the sadness, deal with the fear of losing him, be
willing to let him go, just be willing not to
see him, speak to him, have any interaction with him.
(36:09):
If it takes five, ten, fifteen years until he's willing
to treat you with decency and respect, first as a woman,
because how he treats you developed determines how he's going
to treat women in his life. But you've got to
stop dealing with him as a child and deal with
him as an adult man. You have to let him
(36:31):
know you don't have permission to speak to me in
that manner. And if that's how you want to speak
to me, we don't have to speak. You've got to
say that, and then you have to draw that line
and hold that line, so you block him. He calls
your father, you tell his father don't call me about him.
He will not disrespect me as a woman or as
(36:54):
his mother. And when his grandma calls grandma, I respect
you I love you, but I cannot allow him to
call me out of my name and make demands upon me.
That's unreasonable. Let him know that. Click and look at
where you judge, where you criticize, where you try to
control and see. Virgos don't like change. We don't like change.
(37:17):
We like things orderly and normal, and we know where
every penny is and every crumb.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yeah yeah, ask me how I know. No, it's none
of my business.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
That's right. So tell me something you know now that
you didn't know when you call Tell me something? What
is it that you know now?
Speaker 2 (37:42):
I have learned today that I need to change how
I see him. That I need to grasp that he
is a man and he's not a boy. That's something
that I have never thought about it that way. So
I need to remember that fact. I need to allow
(38:03):
myself and other people close to me to really understand
how the skills and to stop hiding it and smiling
and acting like it's okay. That's the biggest thing I
learned today. I need to let it out and I
need to share it with others so they know how
it's hurting me. And then I think the biggest thing
(38:25):
I learned is it's okay to grieve him. He has
a loss because it's not going to be like I thought.
But I need to accept it that it's not going
to be right now like I thought it was going
to be.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
And he's only twenty one, he's not married, he don't
have kids. We don't know what that's going to look like.
And pray for him, Pray that the light comes on,
Pray that he sees you, that he honors himself enough
to honor his mother. You know, I always say to moms,
you know, even if you gave your kid's garbage, if
(39:06):
you fed them garbage, I know that as a mother,
you walked uptown and get found the best bunk garbage
you could find. You walk three miles uptown, dug in
the rich people's garbage can, and walk three miles back.
So even if you gave him garbage, you gave him
the best garbage you can find. And he needs to
learn to appreciate that you can't do it for him
(39:29):
right right. And you said one line that I want
to challenge you on. You said, trying to prove I'm
a good mom. Stop it. You raise somebody else's child,
What is there for you? To prove.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Wow, I never thought about that.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Well that's why you called me.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
I never thought, Yeah, you're right at hers.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
I need to stop. I need to stop that. I
need to stop trying to prove to him that I
am ready.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
And prove to yourself that you're worthy. Because you couldn't
have your own children. I'm telling you that's the underbelly.
You haven't even tapped into that yet.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
That's a whole nother call.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
This is an important relationship in your life. You value
this relationship, you value him, and you still have the
right to create boundaries and establish how you want to
be treated in this relationship. Just be willing to let
him go. Be willing, and don't make his bad behavior
(40:42):
about anything you did or didn't do. It's about his
experience and he has to navigate that you don't.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
He has to I don't. Oh, this was really needed,
and this has been Like I said, I'm gonna when
I get off with you, I'm just gonna take someone's
to just sit in everything that we've talked.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
About good and as you're listening, any feelings that come up,
any challenges, well, no, what about this? What about that?
Write that down? Work through that. Yeah, that'll be good
for you.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Yeah, I am. This is a lesson. This is going
to be a lesson for me to just like I said,
to replay it, just to listen, to be an active
listener after the fact, and just take it all in
what you're saying. So I appreciate you and all that
you do. I appreciate today's time. I'm glad that I
woke up early and called because I'm on the West coast,
so I'm glad that I got through. Oh good, this
(41:35):
is a blessing. So thank you, Thank you, Thank you
for all that you do for everybody, not just me,
but this has been fantastic, and thank you.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
And I want to thank you because what I know
to be true about us as women, you called and
asked this question, presented this situationship. But you were the
tool the universe used to speak to hundreds of thousands
(42:04):
of mothers of sons who are exactly where you are.
You are not alone. I want you to know that,
and I want you to give yourself credit for the
courage it took for you to come and expose yourself
in this way. And as sister women, we all thank you.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
Oh well, blessing, Thank you, so much.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Okay, my love, let me know how you make out. Okay, okay,
bye bye, Mothers and sons. It can be a rough
road to travel. We have to remember that our children
(42:45):
are not our children. They are the sons and the
daughters of life, owning themselves. They come to us, but
they are not from us. Although they are with us,
they belong not to us. So as mothers of sons,
we have to give them the permission, the space to
(43:05):
grow into who it is they've come to be, and
that may not be who we want them to be.
But every soul has its assignment and as moms, we
just have to take the bitter with the sweet, and
sometimes it's more bitter than sweet. That's our show for today.
Thank you for tuning in, and I want to leave
(43:27):
you with this. No matter what it looks like, Mom,
no matter how ugly your son is behaving, stay in
peace and not in pieces. See you next time. I
hope this has been helpful to someone, And if you
have a question about this or any other relationship issue,
(43:47):
you can call me live at seven seven five three
zero seven seven seven sixty eight. Now be sure to
follow me on social media for all of the calling Times.
The R Spot is a production of Shondaland Audio in
partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit
(44:11):
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
I am Yamla, your host for this journey. I was
a hopeless love aholic but just could not get my
love to work. Then, after a series of heartbreaks and
deep heartache, I finally got clear about what love is
and what it is not. I want to share some
(00:22):
of what I've learned about love a holism. Welcome to
the r Spot, a production of shandaland Audio in partnership
with iHeartRadio. I used to think that one of the
(00:47):
most precious, sacred, and challenging relationships was the relationship between
a mother and a daughter, because so very often the
mother sees and the daughter things that she doesn't like
about herself, and the daughter sees in the mother things
that she never wants to be, and she ends up
being that way. I mean, I could tell you stories
(01:11):
about the beauty, the power, the value, the hardships, the challenges,
the difficulties of the relationship between a mother and a daughter. Woo,
but baby, let me tell you something. In my wisdom years,
I have discovered that one of the most precious, fragile,
(01:39):
and difficult relationships on the planet is the relationship between
a mother and a son. If you want a first
class ticket to heartbreak, and crazy. Take a look at
the relationship between the mother and the son. Because a
man is who his mother makes him. The king is
(02:04):
the king not because he sits in the throne, but
because his mother prepared him, fed him the food, called
in the right people, let him go, pulled him in,
did all of the things that prepares him to sit
in the throne as the king. The mother becomes the
template that a man uses in his relationships with women.
(02:28):
And if that template is solid and clear, if it's
laid with loving care and concern, that man is going
to have good relationships with women and himself. But when
there are cracks and tears and fragments in the template
(02:49):
that a mother uses to grow her son up, baby
is gonna be rough. And the challenge is that a
mother's intentions, her best intentions, and her way of being
is not translated with accuracy into the child's experience. The
(03:10):
mother will set up parameters and dynamics and situations that
she thinks will give the child, the son what he needs,
and he experiences it in a very different way. Why
because she's feminine and he's masculine. It can be a
hot mess. And then we think it gets easier. But
(03:34):
what happens is when that boy child becomes a man,
the mother has to learn how to parent an adult man.
And if she's got any issues with men, baby Ah,
this is the stuff that therapy is made of. So
there are some things that a mother must consider when
(03:59):
she's paring her son who is an adult. I mean
there are issues and challenges with all parents who forget
that this child has now grown up and become an adult.
But when it comes to a mother parenting and adult son,
there are just certain things that have to be taken
(04:20):
into consideration. I am so grateful for my caller today
because she's providing us with an opportunity to look at
some of those things. Here's our call. Greetings beloved, welcome
to the R spot. And what is your situation, your
(04:43):
relationship situation that we can talk about, nibbylon and explore today.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Good morning, is an honor to speak with you, ironic
with you and I both share the same birthday.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Oh well, how wonderful That means that we're crazy?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Please I hope not.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Oh yeah, we are so don't even hope that a
Virgo mother. A Virgo mother is a perfectionist, highly critical, judgmental,
and I say that because I know these things to
be true about myself. That's not our intention.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Oh that I accept everything he just said. I completely
accept that. So you are one hundred percent right. So
I have a son twenty one years old, adopted. I
was married at the time, adopted him right before he
turned three. You know, he was aware of his birth mother,
so he was no secret. We had pictures, YadA, YadA, YadA.
(05:42):
His dad and I got separated and divorced in twenty twelve,
and right after that occurred, his dad immediately moved out
of state, so that was pretty traumatic for him. But
I did make sure that they had a relationship where
I even paid for my son's flights to see his
father every summer. So again, I did all that I
(06:03):
could do to keep him tied to his dad. Right now,
we're in a very very gainful place, and I just
don't know how to process it having just this one child.
He's twenty one. I did get remarried about two and
a half years ago. The gentleman and I dated for
about six seven years. We did not move in together
(06:26):
because I wanted to make sure that my son knew
that he had my attention, but we did date and
my son was a part of that. The guy would
come over, we would do things together. My current husband
has two older sons, a little bit older than my son,
and we did do things as a group. He went
to all my son's games, He took my son to practice,
(06:47):
so he was a pretty active part of my son's life.
Once he moved in, things did kind of go south.
He moved in a year before we got married. We
moved into a brand play so he did not move
into my son's home. We moved into a brand new
place and from there it went downwards where my son
(07:10):
I think he just had trouble accepting this person in
our homes. He did have the type of father that
was very negative. Don't listen to this man. He's not
your father. So I think that played into my son's
mental capacity. And now we're at a place where he's
almost I shouldn't say almost, he's abusive toward me. I've
(07:33):
reached out my hand. He doesn't come over. I haven't
seen him in a year. Holidays come and go, Mother's Day.
I get the calls and the text of hey Mom, yeah,
I'm gonna come and see you. Yeah, you know I'll
come and see you. He completely goes ghost on me,
and his texts to go from zero to one hundred
real quick. And I'm just at the point now where
(07:56):
it's like when his name pops up, I get tense,
my stomach goes flip flop, and I just need to
figure out how do I, for lack of a better term,
I have to cut him off, just for my peace.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Talk to me about your sadness.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Mom. Oh, the sadness is immense because you know, in
this world of social media, you see all of your
friends have kids that are older and they're able to
do things. You know, Holidays are wrenching for me because,
like I said, I've got a great husband that has
two older kids, both in grad school. They call their
(08:35):
dad constantly. They make the time, they'll text him and say, hey,
we want to come and see we haven't seen you.
So it's as a mom having one child and holidays
are so painful. But you have to keep it in
because you don't want to seem like you're hating on
those that have the blessing of a kid that wants
(08:56):
to be around them.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Well not. You have to keep it in. I have
to keep it in own your pain.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, I have to keep it in because I don't
want to bring others down.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Well, that's not your responsibility, but we'll talk about that later.
Talk to me about the guilt.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
It's just the guilt of you. Always mothers are always
told that you've got to be just. I always have
felt that moms are supposed to always be there for
their kids no matter what. So it's just a sense
of guilt of how do I balance protecting myself from him, because,
(09:34):
like I said, his tech and his words are very nasty,
to the point of him calling me names every day.
He called me the inward, Inward, don't talk to me
that way, and it's it's just mind blowing that a
young man would talk to his mom that way. And
so the guilt I have is really wanting to not
(09:54):
have anything to do with him at this time. But
it's just I feel the guilt of as a mom,
you're not supposed to do that. You're supposed to just
be in there and fight for your kids.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
You know. There's an ancient African proverb that says a
mother will never eat her child. She would starve to
death before she raised her hand to harm or hurt
or eat her child. And I don't mean eat as
in you know, chewing and swallowing, but a child, if
(10:29):
they're hungry enough, will eat the mother. Wow. And the
way we see that play out sometimes is the child
will put on the mother, take from the mother, ask
of the mother, and it's almost as if you have
to continue loving me, no matter how badly I behave.
(10:49):
So the mother will never eat the child, but if
pushed to hunger, the child will eat the mother. So
that sounds like what we have going on here.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I was like, here's a for instance. You know, we
have this really bad back and forth, but as the mom,
you keep I keep trying. So for instance, a couple
of weeks ago, Mom, I need twenty dollars. So of
course I am always trying to prove myself that I
am a good mom, I am worthy. So I responded
to his text and said, you know, okay, I'll send it.
And he said, you know, I get paid tomorrow and
(11:21):
i'll give it back. And I said, okay, you know,
you need to keep your word, even though I know
I knowelled that he won't, but in my mind I
have that glimmer of hope I send him the money
and then he goes dark on me. I don't hear
from him nothing, and it just it eats you up
because you knew what was going to happen, but in
the back of your mind you keep it.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Eats me up. It eats me up. It eats me up.
Don't externalize it, take it in. It eats me up.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
It eats me up. Yes, that I knew that that
was going to happen, and that I still did it.
And then weeks later, when we're conversating on something else,
he throws it back in my faith and you're sweating
me for that little twenty dollars and I'm thinking you
didn't have it, you came to me for it, and
now you throw it back in my face that I'm
(12:11):
sweating you to get my little twenty dollars. It's those
type of mental games that are wearing on me. And
that's why I reached out to you, because I need
to figure out what to do with what I know.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Well, this is a classic classic eraror that moms make okay,
and then you're a virgo mom, so you make it
to the tenth degree. Let me just point out a
few things for you. He's twenty one. He's living on
his own. He's acting like a man. Yeah, yes, well,
one of the hallmarks of manhood is that a man
(12:47):
keeps his word. But when he calls you acting like
a child, MA, I need twenty dollars, you give it
to him with the expectation that he won't give it back.
And then when he doesn't give it back and he
acts out like a child, you get upset because he's
not behaving like a man. Here's another possibility. When he
(13:11):
calls and asks you for twenty dollars, you simply say,
boo boo, I don't know what his name is. You've
ruined your credit with me. But see, because you're afraid
to upset him, You're afraid to let him go. You're
afraid that he'll get upset with you. You keep engaging him
like a child and expecting him to respond like a man.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
One hundred percent, you're right. It's just like you said,
I keep holding on to this hope that I'm going
to have this magical moment where all of a sudden
he's going to be who I want him to be.
And you're right, that's not going to happen.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
If he's a man. Does he call you and say, Mom,
I'm getting laid tonight. Does he call you and say
that no. Does he call you and say, Mom, buying
a bottle of wine or I'm smoking some happy flowers.
Does he call you and say that No, but he'll
call you for twenty dollars. That's called he's eating you.
He's gonna play. Listen, children know their parents triggers and
(14:11):
weak spots. They know he knows how to play you,
So he plays you like a fiddle. That's what's called
the child will eat the parent. The child will eat
the mother. See him as a man, Hold him as
a man, Expect him as a man, because you're giving
him the twenty dollars, not expecting him to give it
back to you, and then you want to challenge him
(14:33):
to give it back to you. Yes, the twenty dollars
to fifty whatever it is. No, No, you're a man.
You living on your own, cover your basics.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
No, I'm going to say, but you know what I
think a lot of it is. And I can be
completely honest with you, and I'm going to use the eyeword.
I'm living in fear of him because he talks very aggressive, like,
for instance, when we were talking about the money and
that type of thing. His text to me was, I'm
not to let you talk crazy to me. I will
(15:02):
pull up at any time. Don't forget that.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Say he's really really angry, I have a fear. No, no,
don't fear him. Take that, well, let me not say
that out loud in the public. He need to fear you.
Something happened. Something happened. I don't know where you overcompensated
or where you failed to create boundaries. My son is
(15:29):
fifty four and he's still scared of me because he
knows I will pull up on him at any moment
and it won't be pretty.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
But can I accept he's never had that fear that
I still have what my mom rests, you know, she's
not living, But he never had that, And that was one.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Of the things.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
You didn't create boundaries. You didn't create boundaries. You overcompensated.
And it probably goes back to why you adopted him
in the first place. Why did you adopt as a
to having natural children?
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Right, it's the natural way. It didn't work, And I
think in the back of my mind adoption was always
something that I had wanted to do but did try
the old fashioned way before adoption was tried.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
So as a woman, hear me. This is not a
judgment or criticism. I want to help you get to
the root and the core, and you are probably not
going to like it. Are you ready? Okay, okay, we'll
do it right after this break, welcome back to the
(16:40):
r spot. Let's pick up where we left off. As
a woman, there was some failure, inadequacy, something I don't know.
You have to give it the word because you couldn't
have your own children. Adoption wasn't your first choice, although
you made that choice, but the underlying, the underbelly in there,
(17:03):
it's like I gotta prove, I gotta prove. So maybe
perhaps I'm willing to be wrong that unconscious thought of
failure or unworthiness or inadequacy. You over indulged this child someplace.
You over indulged him. Tell me what you hear me saying.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
That I potentially created the monster that I have right now?
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Ah? Yeah, A man is who is mother makes them.
I don't care who he is.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
I was a strict mom, but not to the point
of like how my parents were where I never could
go to the dance of the party, but I always
did compare to his friend's parents who had no boundaries
and they could go wherever they wanted. And I was
one of those old school moms that whose house are
you going to? What time will you be home? So
(18:01):
he did have boundaries and that was one of the
things he hated because he was surrounded by young men
that had zero boundaries.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Okay, you call them boundaries. He calls them restriction and control.
But that's not what he's angry with you about. Absolutely not.
He's not angry with you about that. The things you
have to look at because if his texts are coming
to you like that, there's something that you did or
(18:32):
did not do at some point. And maybe it's because,
you know, again over compensation. You didn't want him to feel,
you know, any less. Because he was adopted someplace, he
was taught, trained, led to believe that he could talk
(18:52):
to you like that. Maybe around sixteen seventeen you argued
with him or allowed him to argue with you. Usually
it happens in that frame because with thinking, I got
to give him a chance to express himself. Yeah, but
here's a line, cross this and I'm gonna pop you
in your mouth.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
Right, But guess what happened though, So okay, what you
just said, I have done and said, and you know,
as a black mom, I'm going to own this.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
He has been popped. But guess what he called, I'll
protect their circuces on me place. And I had to
go through all that Rick and Moreau, you know, them
coming over being interviewed. You know this was not This
was when he was a little bit younger, like theay
twelve thirteen.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Mm hmmm mm hm and right around the time you
and your husband divorced, right, and.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
We did do therapy. We did I have therapy for him.
We tried joint the people. As he got older. When
people tend to tell him what he doesn't want to hear,
that's when he goes ghosts like he's still doing to
this day. You cannot tell him anything that he does
(20:10):
not agree with.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Is he a leo?
Speaker 2 (20:13):
No, he is a lead bruh. His birthday is October
lib Bra, October twelfth.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Couple of things, mom, And this is going to be
hard to hear. I want to acknowledge you because I
don't hear you talking about him as your adopted son,
but as your son. That's number one, which is great.
I'm glad he knows who that he has a natural
birth mother. And with all that you've done and all
(20:44):
that you've given, and I know as a Virgo mother,
all that you've done and all that you've given. Like
I said, in many cases overcompensating, you are a usual suspect.
One of the reasons he takes his anger out on
you is because he knows you're gonna love him no
matter what. So in some instances, I want you to
(21:07):
hear this, It ain't personal. He just knows that you're
gonna love him no matter what. Here's the hard part.
You gotta be willing to let him go. You've got
to be willing to let him go his anger. I
don't care who the child is. There comes a moment
when they're gonna look for the womb that they came from.
(21:30):
So while he may not voice it, he may not
acknowledge it, he may not think about it, he may
not say it. He's really angry at his mother, but
he takes it out on you because you're his mom.
Does that make sense to.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
You, Yes? Yes.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
We also don't know what he marinated in. We don't
know the condition of the womb that he lived in.
This may be his mom's anger. It may be his
dad's anger. It may be the environment that she was in.
Some of this is etched into his soul, so it
may not be his anger, but he gets to act
(22:10):
it out and at twenty one, and that's a whole
new breed of people. Them young ones, they are a
hot mess anyway, they really are. It's universal. Ye, it's universally.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yeah, you're right, you're right.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yeah. They have a sense of entitlement, they have a
disrespect for authority. They wanted everything their way. So some
of that is just in the planetary placement of this
new generation. What they're actually doing is they're rebelling against
the hypocrisy of the older generations. But because they don't
(22:47):
have a new template yet about how to be in,
what to do, and how to do it, it comes
out as disrespect and it comes out as rebellion and defiance.
That's generational. Seventeen to about twenty five, twenty six, that's
just generational. They are rebelling against the obsolete society of
(23:11):
the older generations, and they are it's obsolete, and they
are challenging our hypocrisy. So that's universal. He's got some
of that going on, and then the anger he may
have picked up in the womb, and the anger that
he feels about what the hell is wrong with me?
That my mother didn't want me? What's wrong with me?
(23:35):
So here you come the virgo by nature, critical, judgmental, overbearing.
And I'm not saying that to you personally. I'm talking
about myself.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
I know, I understand.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Yeah, he's angry in general. And then here you come,
like I said, the judge critical because we're perfectionists. We
want everything, the corners of the sheets and the washcloths
in the cabinet and the sweeping of the floor. I mean,
I'm the kind of virgo mother. I used to fold
my dirty clothes. That's how neurotic I was. Okay, no,
(24:15):
don't put no unfolded clothes in the clothes hemp, fold
them clothes up so that I can shake him out
and put him in the washing machine. But how he
hears that again, because we don't know the condition of
the womb, we don't know the consciousness of the birth mother,
he hears that as critical, judgmental and controlling. And then
(24:36):
a couple of pops in the mouth, pops on the behind,
taking away of privileges that his generation thinks they're entitled to.
So you're just an ogre. I don't like you and
I don't even know you, right, yeah, can you hear me?
So some of some of this, mom, he's just gonna
(24:58):
have to work out. He will work it out, and
it probably won't happen until he's about twenty seven twenty eight,
if my assessment and my observations are accurate. But what
you have to do is you have to hold the line.
First of all, as a man. He can't disrespect no
woman by talking about he gonna pull up on it.
(25:20):
No woman, but certainly not his mother. He done lost
his rabbit behind mine? Something wrong with him?
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Call me the inWORD? I mean, I got a text
last week where he called me the inward his mom.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
And what did you say in response? I don't what
did you say?
Speaker 2 (25:42):
I can't ever remember, but I'm trying to look to
see if I can find it.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
But I mean, well, please find it because I want
to know what you said in response. We'll talk more
about it when we come back. Welcome to the spot.
Let's get back to the conversation.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Oh okay, I did find it. His response to me
was we were talking about a joint account that we
have that I told him I wanted him to close
because I cannot remove my name from it, so the
account has to be closed. So there was a lot
of vacu and forth, and his response to me was,
you could have easily said, hey, I want to close
(26:26):
that account, which is, by the way, that's what I
told him. And he said, look what you Look what
you said? You just a rude inward, I hate you,
and then he said inward, that's not what you said.
Are you slow? I took a pause. I took a moment,
and I responded back, and I said, is everything okay?
(26:47):
What's wrong? Calling me names is not going to help you.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Criticism that's what he heard, criticism. Here's another possibility, again
drawed the line. Stop thinking of him as a little boy.
He's a grown man, and you have to stop parenting
a child and start dealing with a man. Another classic
problem for mothers. We don't know how to parent adults,
(27:13):
so we hold our children to the parameters of them
being children. He's a grown man. I would have here's
another possibility. I'm going to end this communication now because
I have not given you permission to talk to me
in that way, and it's unacceptable. Done you don't accept that.
(27:34):
I don't care who he is. He can't talk to
you like that. First of all, he shouldn't be texting you.
Pick up the phone and call your mother. I know
we're in the twenty first century. He doesn't do well.
That's how they get away with it. He doesn't have
to take responsibility for his behavior because he's anonymous on
(27:55):
the text, right.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
And then after all this, one day I did block him.
And then of course he went to the other people
in the village and they came at me. He went
to he called his dad. Mom blocked me. Can you
believe it? So of course his dad called me, and
then he called My husband's mother is his grandmother. She's
(28:20):
basically been calling him grandson since she met him, and
he called her. So then she called me. So then
I have the village attacking me saying he loves you.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
No, no, you tell them no, no, no, no, no,
they don't have to attack you. You tell the village. Y'all
need to get him straight, because he can't call me
the inward. He can't threaten me. He's a grown man
and I'm a woman. Let's teach him some respect. That's
what you tell the village. They can't attack you. You
have to draw the line. He's a grown man. Stop
(28:54):
looking at him as a child. Who are told him
to the same level of responsibility, accountability and integrity you
would hold it. Could any man in the street roll
up on you and call you the inward? What would
you do if you were at the gas station and
somebody rolled up on you and called you the inward
(29:14):
and told you that they would roll up on you?
What would you do?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
They would hear it for me, and I'd probably get
somebody else involved.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Law enforcements, my husband, somebody. You got a husband, Yeah,
you got two stepsons. He needs to know that they
are protecting and guarding you as a woman, because he's
not coming at you as a mother. He's coming at
you as any hoody on the street because he's angry.
And that's fine, But as twenty one, it's his responsibility
(29:45):
to handle his anger, and I would let him know
how do I.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Everything you're seeing has been scrolling around in my head.
So at this point, going into the rest of this
year and these holidays are about to come up, the
Mother's Day with you know. I just have to kind
of know that they're not going to be what I
had hoped they would be. How do I pivot moving
forward so that this is not for disruptive to my
(30:14):
daily life of Oh my god, is he going to
text today and it's going to blow up.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
First of all, go ahead and let your heart break
that your son is not the man that you wanted
him to be. Just let your heart break about that.
But he's twenty one, he's got a long way to go.
This usually happens around sixteen seventeen eighteen before they go
off to college, and sometime that first year of college.
(30:42):
This usually happens then. So he's got some arrested development,
probably because of the anger and your overcompensation. Let your
heart break, ma Oh, it's broke, but hold him higher,
see him higher. He's just working out whatever he needs
to work out right now to get himself to the
(31:07):
place he needs to be. Once you let your heart
break the sadness of it, and don't hide that from people.
Your pain needs a witness because everybody, your husband, his dad,
or his father, his mother, all of them, all of
them played a role in this. All of them play
the role in this. So don't you let them know.
(31:28):
I'm really really sad and this really really hurts me.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
And I don't do that. You're right, I don't do it.
You're right, I need to let it out. I don't.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
I did classic neurotic virgo behavior. Ask me how I know,
Ask me how I know? Go ahead, ask me how
I know?
Speaker 2 (31:51):
How do you know?
Speaker 3 (31:53):
None of your business the virgo mask of perfection and
let people see the ugly sain I feel right now.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Ah, and that's when you'll get start getting in touch
with what he what he sees in you. Yeah, that's
when you'll see that.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
How will he how will he see it? Though he
won't see it.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
But don't worry about him, because what's going to solidify
your relationship with him is which is probably what he's
going through right now. He's in the stage of developing
intimacy into me C versus isolation. So if there's anything
in him that he thinks is less than unworthy, weak,
(32:49):
whatever as a man, he's going to isolate. He's going
to isolate, and he's not going to be able to
develop intimacy into me C. And the the first person
who sees into you is your mother. So if he's
angry with you, or if he doesn't trust you, or
if he doesn't feel safe with you, he's not going
(33:10):
to let you see into him, and he'll cover that
up with anger or depression or isolation or those kinds
of things. So how you see yourself and your intentions
in your mother ring, that's not what he sees. He
sees the hypocrisy, he sees the control, he sees the manipulation.
(33:36):
He sees those things, or your best intentions, his thwarted
childhood mind turns him into something else where you're trying
to keep him safe and give him, you know, good character.
He sees that as control and manipulation.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Yeah, yep.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
So at this point, let your heart break so that
you feel the sadness and b let go of the fear,
the fear that he's gonna go off and you'll never
see him again, or he's gonna hate you forever or whatever.
At this point, Mom, that's his business. That's not your business.
(34:18):
You gave him the best that you had, and surely,
like all of us, you've made mistakes. But he has
to be a man enough to talk about the mistakes
and how he feels about them. But see you as
who you are. Now. He's probably holding you and mad
at you about something you did at thirteen when he
got his first pubic hair, because once they get a
(34:39):
pubic hair, they lose they durned mind. It ain't personal, No,
it's not.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
But I try to be so different because, like I said,
you know, with my parents, you know that other generation,
they did what they did and there are no, you know,
no apologies. And with me, I tried to be different
than him. I've even tried to apologize. You know, I
told him, I know I wasn't a perfect mom, but
I told him I was a damn.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Good mone according to your standards. But this generation of
entitlement and permissiveness, breaking the rules and the boundaries, rebelling
against the hypocrisy. In your mind, you were a good mom.
In his mind, you were pain in his butt that
didn't give him what he wanted and let him do
what he wanted. That's how he sees.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
That's look at it. You're right, you're right, you're right.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
And why did he end up with you when his
birth mom didn't want him. That's a deep pain. That's
a deep pain. I've worked with a lot of adopted
people adopted adults, and it's not conscious, it's unconscious. And
the ones who do their personal work, their development work,
they get to that and they're able to move through it.
(35:46):
Obviously he has not, but he's got time. So express
the sadness, deal with the fear of losing him, be
willing to let him go, just be willing not to
see him, speak to him, have any interaction with him.
(36:09):
If it takes five, ten, fifteen years until he's willing
to treat you with decency and respect, first as a woman,
because how he treats you developed determines how he's going
to treat women in his life. But you've got to
stop dealing with him as a child and deal with
him as an adult man. You have to let him
(36:31):
know you don't have permission to speak to me in
that manner. And if that's how you want to speak
to me, we don't have to speak. You've got to
say that, and then you have to draw that line
and hold that line, so you block him. He calls
your father, you tell his father don't call me about him.
He will not disrespect me as a woman or as
(36:54):
his mother. And when his grandma calls grandma, I respect
you I love you, but I cannot allow him to
call me out of my name and make demands upon me.
That's unreasonable. Let him know that. Click and look at
where you judge, where you criticize, where you try to
control and see. Virgos don't like change. We don't like change.
(37:17):
We like things orderly and normal, and we know where
every penny is and every crumb.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yeah yeah, ask me how I know. No, it's none
of my business.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
That's right. So tell me something you know now that
you didn't know when you call Tell me something? What
is it that you know now?
Speaker 2 (37:42):
I have learned today that I need to change how
I see him. That I need to grasp that he
is a man and he's not a boy. That's something
that I have never thought about it that way. So
I need to remember that fact. I need to allow
(38:03):
myself and other people close to me to really understand
how the skills and to stop hiding it and smiling
and acting like it's okay. That's the biggest thing I
learned today. I need to let it out and I
need to share it with others so they know how
it's hurting me. And then I think the biggest thing
(38:25):
I learned is it's okay to grieve him. He has
a loss because it's not going to be like I thought.
But I need to accept it that it's not going
to be right now like I thought it was going
to be.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
And he's only twenty one, he's not married, he don't
have kids. We don't know what that's going to look like.
And pray for him, Pray that the light comes on,
Pray that he sees you, that he honors himself enough
to honor his mother. You know, I always say to moms,
you know, even if you gave your kid's garbage, if
(39:06):
you fed them garbage, I know that as a mother,
you walked uptown and get found the best bunk garbage
you could find. You walk three miles uptown, dug in
the rich people's garbage can, and walk three miles back.
So even if you gave him garbage, you gave him
the best garbage you can find. And he needs to
learn to appreciate that you can't do it for him
(39:29):
right right. And you said one line that I want
to challenge you on. You said, trying to prove I'm
a good mom. Stop it. You raise somebody else's child,
What is there for you? To prove.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Wow, I never thought about that.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Well that's why you called me.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
I never thought, Yeah, you're right at hers.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
I need to stop. I need to stop that. I
need to stop trying to prove to him that I
am ready.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
And prove to yourself that you're worthy. Because you couldn't
have your own children. I'm telling you that's the underbelly.
You haven't even tapped into that yet.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
That's a whole nother call.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
This is an important relationship in your life. You value
this relationship, you value him, and you still have the
right to create boundaries and establish how you want to
be treated in this relationship. Just be willing to let
him go. Be willing, and don't make his bad behavior
(40:42):
about anything you did or didn't do. It's about his
experience and he has to navigate that you don't.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
He has to I don't. Oh, this was really needed,
and this has been Like I said, I'm gonna when
I get off with you, I'm just gonna take someone's
to just sit in everything that we've talked.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
About good and as you're listening, any feelings that come up,
any challenges, well, no, what about this? What about that?
Write that down? Work through that. Yeah, that'll be good
for you.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Yeah, I am. This is a lesson. This is going
to be a lesson for me to just like I said,
to replay it, just to listen, to be an active
listener after the fact, and just take it all in
what you're saying. So I appreciate you and all that
you do. I appreciate today's time. I'm glad that I
woke up early and called because I'm on the West coast,
so I'm glad that I got through. Oh good, this
(41:35):
is a blessing. So thank you, Thank you, Thank you
for all that you do for everybody, not just me,
but this has been fantastic, and thank you.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
And I want to thank you because what I know
to be true about us as women, you called and
asked this question, presented this situationship. But you were the
tool the universe used to speak to hundreds of thousands
(42:04):
of mothers of sons who are exactly where you are.
You are not alone. I want you to know that,
and I want you to give yourself credit for the
courage it took for you to come and expose yourself
in this way. And as sister women, we all thank you.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
Oh well, blessing, Thank you, so much.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Okay, my love, let me know how you make out. Okay, okay,
bye bye, Mothers and sons. It can be a rough
road to travel. We have to remember that our children
(42:45):
are not our children. They are the sons and the
daughters of life, owning themselves. They come to us, but
they are not from us. Although they are with us,
they belong not to us. So as mothers of sons,
we have to give them the permission, the space to
(43:05):
grow into who it is they've come to be, and
that may not be who we want them to be.
But every soul has its assignment and as moms, we
just have to take the bitter with the sweet, and
sometimes it's more bitter than sweet. That's our show for today.
Thank you for tuning in, and I want to leave
(43:27):
you with this. No matter what it looks like, Mom,
no matter how ugly your son is behaving, stay in
peace and not in pieces. See you next time. I
hope this has been helpful to someone, And if you
have a question about this or any other relationship issue,
(43:47):
you can call me live at seven seven five three
zero seven seven seven sixty eight. Now be sure to
follow me on social media for all of the calling Times.
The R Spot is a production of Shondaland Audio in
partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit
(44:11):
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Host
Iyanla Vanzant
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