July 3, 2024 • 33 mins
In part two of the cheating series, Iyanla and her panel of guests dive into how to move on with an unfaithful partner while asking the question, was the relationship damaged before cheating?
Iyanla also provides her guests with the principles needed to confront a cheating partner and how to rebuild trust in the relationship.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
I am a Yamla, your host for this journey. I
was a hopeless love aholic but just could not get
my love to work. Then, after a series of heartbreaks
and deep heartache, I finally got clear about what love
is and what it is not. I want to share
(00:22):
some of what I've learned about lover holism. Welcome to
the R Spot, a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
with iHeartRadio. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, This is the Spot and
(00:48):
I am a Yamla, your guide, your facilitator, some might
even say your teacher, as we delve into the sea,
the ocean of relationships, all kinds of relationships, doing our
best to learn the skills, the tools, the principles, the
practices to make those relationships more peaceful, more fulfilling. Healthy. Yeah,
(01:12):
we want to go for healthy relationships. Now, if you
were with us last week, we started talking about a
topic that you see, sense, feel, believe your partner is cheating,
but you don't have the evidence. And we covered a
lot of ground. But we're going to continue that conversation today.
(01:33):
But I want us to start right here because we
are so conditioned in, programmed, taught, educated to look outside
of ourselves for the answers, so that when we get
the answer on the inside, we don't believe it, we
don't want to hold on to it, and we'll talk
ourselves out of what we know. You know, the first GPS,
(01:58):
the first GPS any human ever had, before it was
in cars, before it was on a smartphone, the first
GPS we ever had was intuition, teaching from within. And
yet there's no place in our society and our educational system,
even in our interactions of being raised or being educated,
(02:22):
have we been taught how to tune into, how to hear,
and how to trust our intuition. So now you grow
up without the necessary skills, tools and information to grow
in your intuition. And your intuition is telling you Boo
Boo is cheating. He's a ball faced liar, and you
(02:43):
know it, and you hear that, And what you want
to do is get evidence in the external world, evidence
outside of yourself. So the question we're going to continue
to discuss my three co hosts and I is what
do you do if and when you know your partner
is cheating, but you're looking for evidence, external evidence? Can
(03:04):
you imagine external evidence? Welcome back, to this conversation. Once
you get the sense or the feeling that someone is
cheating or that's something there's a breakdown in the relationship.
(03:27):
Is the issue the cheating or is the issue the
breakdown in the relationship? I mean, do you think things
are just fine and all of a sudden you get
a sense of cheating or have there been things along
the way that maybe you ignored? What do you think?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Definitely a breakdown already.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
It is already a breakdown in the relationship. Already we
all know nothing outside of it's already happen in an inside.
It's already in the house, it's already going on.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Okay, yeah, okay, mister lewis right.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
It's just a symptom of a disease, right that has
now raised to your level of awareness. And so that
just goes to show that you weren't even even though
you're looking at your partner cheating, Not to say that
there's something that you could have done differently, It just
(04:18):
means that there was somewhere along the relationship that you
actually also checked out of the relationship as well. And
so now because of the misalignment, right now, your back
starts hurting, you know, now, you know, you don't really
wake up with a spring in your step anymore. Right,
there's something different that you can feel, But that person
(04:39):
is already light years ahead. They've already found some type
of remedy, and so they're already onto their own sort
of healing journey for that misalignment. They already felt what
was misaligned, and so they've already found their own little
thing that.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
They have going on.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
But you're just kind of dealing with the pieces of
you being able to detect it. But there was something
that happened, uh in the in the history. So that's
why when people, you know, come to me with their problems,
I'm like, well, you know, there was something that happened
way before this. You got to press the rewind you know,
on your mind and get to the bottom of what's
going on.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Really mmmm, here's a good question. How do you distinguish
or make a distinction between your partner being distracted because
they're cheating and them just being neglectful to your to
the relationship. How do you distinguish that? Ms Kira, I'm
(05:42):
coming to you.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Well, I feel like when you're lazy and neglectful to
the relationship, you'll be able to tell if that's not
cheating per se, because again, like the signs will be
there for example, you know, just like if you're going
through their their device, or you know, if they're just
moving differently, you'll be able to see, you know where
(06:07):
their time is being spent and you know what they're doing.
I feel like neglect is just like, you know, if
we're not, you know, going out on as many days,
but that could be for other reasons like financial hardship,
you know, things like that. It doesn't necessarily mean that
your part is cheating because you know, you feel like
you guys aren't you know, doing as much or they're
not putting as much into the relationship. So I feel
(06:29):
like it's kind of jumping the gun for that. I
feel like you'll have actual signs that you know your
partner is cheating, but it wouldn't be based off of
just not feeling like you're not getting what you need
in the relationship.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Okay, mispath, can you make a distinction between cheating and neglect?
Did you because you've had this experience, did you make
this I didn't make.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
A distinction in between the neglect because the neglect was
when the intimacy stopped. When that stopped? When when the
when the when the love left my house? You know
I would get up every morning, I would fixed breakfast,
and every night we ate dinner together, but you know
as a family, and when the oh, I ate already outside,
(07:18):
you know kind of thing, or I'll get up extra
early so I won't be up early enough to fix breakfast.
You know, those things started leading, Okay, so when the
love started leaving, yeah, And when the joy and the
love started leaving out your house, and you know that's
the neglect, that's the yeah. And then you know the
(07:39):
cheating is in the midst of all of that, when
those things started leaving.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Mister Luke, do you make a distinction or can you?
Should you make a distinction between neglect and cheating?
Speaker 4 (07:52):
Yeah, And that's a you know, should you can you,
you know, make the distinction. You know, it's really one
and the same. Even Miss Pat when she was sort
of explaining it, you know, when the love leaves, it's
almost as though that the cheating is the act, but
the neglect is really the purpose behind the action, right,
(08:16):
It's mostly really really you know, I am neglecting you
by cheating on you with someone else. But I am
neglectful of you is the it's really the it's really
the positionality that you've created between you and that other person.
So really, when we talk about neglectfulness, that looks like,
(08:40):
you know, do I bring you your favorite meal? Do
I stop by, you know, on the way from work
and you know, bring you something thoughtful? Which was something
that I used to do before that I stopped doing it.
And you know, I stop, you know, wearing my hair
in the way that you like to you know, you
know see me, or I stop wearing a particular perfume
(09:02):
that I know that you like. You know, these are
the little things that we do to show the other person.
Are you noticing me right now? Are you seeing me?
Are you seeing the shifts, the changes, the ebbs and
the flows, the seasons of our own relationship?
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Right?
Speaker 4 (09:16):
Because we can grow and we can grow apart. We
can grow together or we can grow apart. And so
sometimes when you have a partner that is not really
interested in the same topics that you're interested in, that's neglectful.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Right.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
If you can't sit and talk to me about my
day at work, you're not interested about, you know, the
people that I work with, my coworkers, and you may
not be interested in the nitty and the gritty, but
I think that's someone that I'm actually, you know, in
a relationship with. They should be interested in the nitty
and the gritty. That that's not, you know, a cause
for something that you can shut down or tune your
(09:51):
ears out of.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
You know, I love it, you know, for me, neglect,
even neglect is a is a form of cheating. You know,
when you're not paying attention to this union that we've
created together. Your mind is elsewhere, your soul is elsewhere,
(10:15):
your your body is elsewhere, whether you're in the bed
with somebody else or not. Sometimes that neglect is the
first sign of emotional cheating. You're you're giving your attention
and your time somewhere else. We're gonna continue the conversation
right after this. Welcome back to the R Spot. I've
(10:47):
got three co hosts on here with me today, and
we are talking about the signs and the evidence of
cheating and when you approach your partner about it, how
you approach your partner about and what do you do
if you don't have physical evidence. I think it's important
that we get clear about what cheating is. So we're
going to talk about that. Here's a question for my
(11:10):
co host. I want a yes or no answer. Okay,
just give me yes or no and I'll call you
and then we can talk about why. Okay, you suspect
your partner's cheating. You feel it, you see it, it's
in the space. Do you search their phone? Yes or no?
Mister Luke, No, Miss Pat no, Miss.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
Caira yes, okay, all right, Okay, you suspect your partner's cheating.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
You can see it, feel it. It's something going on.
Do you get into their social media? Do you do
you check that Facebook? No? Mispath says no, Miss Kira, yes,
mister Luke, yes, okay as two yes, it's in one no,
(12:16):
all right. You suspect your partner is cheating? Do you
follow them? Do you follow them? Yes or no? Miss
Pat for me, okay, mister Luke, yes, ha ha, Miss.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Kira everything follow them like on social media? Or follow
them in real life?
Speaker 1 (12:40):
No? No, follow them in real life? Do you do
you go out to see where they're going and what
they're doing?
Speaker 3 (12:46):
I will, I will?
Speaker 2 (12:49):
I would?
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Okay, yes or the that's two yeses and the no.
You suspect your partner is cheating? Uh, you feel it,
you see it, you sense it. Do you talk to
their friends about it? Yes? Or no, mister Luke, No, no,
Miss Pat no, Miss Kira. Now do you talk to
(13:13):
your friends about it? Miss Caira not friends? No, mister Luke, no,
Miss Pat.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Okay, So let me ask you this when you if
you should you suspect your partner is cheating? How much
snooping is acceptable? How much snooping? How much digging do
you do? Mister Luke? What do you think?
Speaker 4 (13:46):
Yeah? I think my answers are a little bit all
over the place, and I had a couple of surprises
in there. I think the thing that I like to
do is I see myself just a collector of data.
I'm just looking for data points. And so if I'm
just collect data, I just do it from a very
emotionless without emotion. I really don't really try to inject
(14:07):
too much emotion into it. So as long as I'm
collecting the data points, everything is cool. I'm calm, I'm cool, collected.
You won't see any difference in me. I'm just collecting
the information like a detective, you know.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Okay, so everything nothing's off the table. You're gonna look
where the data leads you. You're gonna ask what the
data leads you to. Okay, all right, miss pat When
when you suspect your partner's shooting, how much snooping is acceptable?
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Well, I'm gonna tell you from my experience. Ere My
mother used to always say, you're digging the trash team.
You come up with garbage, right, and that was her favorite.
My brother was that we should be ninety two years old,
so that was her favorite thing to say. Right. So
I never dug in the trash team. That's why I
answered no. But when in prayer, it would just show
up to me. I didn't dig I promise you, yeah,
(14:58):
it would just show up.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Yeah. But but that's why I said if I would
sort of hit you out at lunch with shaquiedah, I'm
coming over to the table because I'm collecting data. I'm
collecting that, yeah, but to.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Dig in your phone and follow you, you know. You know,
in my experience, I had two children, so it was
either I was gonna chase you or take care of them,
so I chose them.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Okay, Ms Caira, if you think your partner's cheating, how
much snooping is acceptable?
Speaker 2 (15:26):
I kind of. I kind of agree with Luke. I'm
going to have a little case folder. So I totally understand.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
You go whip out your lawyer. You're looking for the
evidence so that they're beyond a reasonable doubt. Okay, And
here's another question. How much evidence is enough either for
you to leave or do you make an allegation or
do you present the evidence? How much evidence is enough,
(16:01):
mister Luke? How much evidence?
Speaker 4 (16:02):
Yeah, how much evidence is enough? That's a very very
powerful question because if you really think about it, you know,
when we first started, there was no evidence, right, there
was no tangible evidence that the person can cling to.
Only your soul felt that coldness, right, And so really
I would say that that feeling you felt is enough
(16:25):
from the beginning. And so we can go to miss
pat route, which is saying that you know, what's done
in the dark will will surely come to the light,
and if I ask for the clarity, the clarity will
be presented, or you know, we can fill it up
to the brim and then you can just you know,
have to deal with that, you know, and just kind
of present it in a way where it's like, Okay,
enough is enough, I've seen enough and I've you know,
(16:48):
confirmed that deep pitted feeling, you know, so I think
enough is really just that feeling that you felt from
the beginning.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Okay, miss pat How much evidence is enough to either
leave or make the allegation?
Speaker 3 (17:06):
How much evidence does it have to be?
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Yeah, does it have to be tangible or or could
it be like you said, the love left, We don't
eat together, we're not sleeping together. You forgot my birthday,
you don't show up for me in any kind of way.
How much evidence is enough?
Speaker 3 (17:23):
All of that, all of that, it was enough for
me when it stops showing up. When when the when
you know, when the you know, it's like a house
when you don't you know, if you got a house,
and you had your house for twenty thirty years, if
you didn't start, if you didn't keep working on your house,
your house going to fall apart. So when you wasn't
long to continue working on this house and it all
(17:45):
started to fall apart, and the joy and the love
and the peace and harmony started to leave, and that
was enough to me, That was enough to me.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Okay, ms Kira, you're young, so let me ask you
this way. How many receipts do you need I think
how many.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
I think I would Yeah, I kind of I feel
like I would need as many as I could get.
But you know, if I if I collect as many
as I could get, and that's like a lot, you know,
a little is a lot to me. So it's just
like the fact that I even have all this information
is just like that's enough. Like I feel like you,
you know, you violated my trust at this point, and
(18:26):
it's just something that I don't feel like I would
be able to, you know, come back from. So just
I feel like I don't know. One receipt is enough
for me if I if I suspect it, that's what
it is, you know, like if I see something that's.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Enough for me.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
That's a very good point. Because some relationships have survived cheating,
some have survived. What do you think is required for
a relationship? Well, let me ask you this. Let me
ask you this before I go there. Once you get
your case file, your receipts, your evidence, because all of
(19:06):
y'all have fled and something different, do you pressent the
evidence to the person or do you just hold on
to it until you figure out what you want to do?
What do you do? What do you do, mister Luke,
Do you present the evidence or do you just hold
on to it until you're clear about what you're doing.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
You should definitely hold on to it until you're clear,
because you don't want to move from a place of emotion.
You want to move from a place of I've meditated
on this, I've really done a lot of soul searching,
and now what the ball is in my court? You know,
the train has already left the station, and so now
(19:46):
it's about what are you going to do? And so
even you presenting the evidence is mostly just you know,
you're telling the person this is where you you did.
The person knows what they did at that point, right,
it's just saying that I know what you did. So
it's really just about do you want to stand this
relationship or do you want to mend the relationship from
this point?
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Okay, miss pat what do you do? Do you present
the evidence once you get it, once your case files
is closed, or do you hold on to it until
you're clear about what you're doing?
Speaker 3 (20:19):
You hold on I hold I held on to it
till I was clear, and I was you know, like
I said, did some lot of introspection and had a
lot of self awareness, because I want to say, is
that I, when I did digging within myself, I cheated
on me. First m making like I didn't know what
(20:40):
I knew.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Okay, okay, okay, you violated yourself, You betrayed your own trust.
Yes by staying okay, good good mss caira. Do you
present your receipts I've got receipts right here, or do
you hold on? Do you hold on two her until
(21:03):
you are clear about what you're gonna do?
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Well?
Speaker 2 (21:06):
I feel like with me, Missianla, I have to be
smooth with it. So I can't just present it writ
then and there. I have to because the thing is like,
it doesn't make sense to present that information to them
as soon as you get it if you are going
to just end up, you know, deciding to be with them,
and if you tell them, then they're just gonna feel
(21:27):
like okay, Like she knows that I cheated on her
and so we might get back together. Like she's basically
saying that that's okay, I know what you did, but
we're gonna still be together. So what's the point if
you're gonna get back to that person. That's kind of
how I feel.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
I think that that's an important point because some relationships
have survived cheating. Some relationships have survived. What would be
required for you to survive beyond cheating? And we'll talk
about that when we come back. Welcome back to the
(22:12):
R spot. Let's talk to you, miss Pat, because I'm
hearing I could be wrong that your relationship didn't survive
beyond the cheating. What would be required for you to
survive beyond cheating?
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Well, it didn't survive, of course, it did not survive.
I just I really just had to go to work.
I had to go to work on me. That's all.
That's No, it survived. How I survived, I should say
I had to go. I had to go to work
on myro. I had to go to work, and so
(22:51):
we're en doing that work. It helped me to really
just come into a lot of self awareness and how
I had a nick in that quarter. So that's what tell.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Me more about that. What does that mean? I had
a nickel in that quarter? Can tell me what that means?
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Because I allowed it. I allowed so much to happen.
I accommodated it, I tolerated it.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Okay, So I.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Had a nickel on that quarter if I had fifteen cent.
Speaker 6 (23:22):
But yeah, okay, mister Luke, what would be required to
survive beyond cheating?
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Because we've already established that there were holes or breakdowns
in the relationship anyway, So what would be required to
survive beyond cheating?
Speaker 4 (23:44):
Yeah, I think that the key thing to survive beyond
this cheating is a nakedness. I think that to really
look at someone, look look into their eyes, you know,
gaze into their soul. You know, that's what's really required
to survive beyond the cheatingess. I have to see you
(24:05):
in the way that you want to be seen, and
you have to see me in the way that I
want to be seen. You know, we have to be
naked unto one another. And so what that means is
bearing our truths to one another. There's something in this
relationship that needs air. It's crying out for space, it's
(24:26):
crying out for breath, and so I have to breathe
life into whatever it is, the cracks, the crevices of
your soul that you're not allowing to bring to light,
and so I want to. And I think that that's
what is required if we want to you know, in
the same way that we accommodate the cheating, we have
to also accommodate, you know, the love the light and
(24:48):
bring that forward.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Ms caira Young What would be what would be required
to survive cheating and the the seats that you got.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
I think for me, it would just a big turning
point for me would be like are you taking accountability
for your actions? Like that would be a major thing
just me feeling like, you know, he fully understands the
error and the mistake you know that he made, and
that would be very like detrimental for me. And if
(25:24):
you kind of feel like if you cheat in the relationship,
I feel like it's something internally, you know, like what
we've been talking about that you kind of need to
work on. So if that means like you know, therapy,
I feel like that's really frowned upon, especially like in
the black community as well, then maybe you need to
take that route because those things can also be something
that came from like your childhood or things that you've
(25:47):
seen as well. So it's just we would really have
to like figure out why you did that if we
are going to stay in the relationship. If not, then
it wouldn't work for me.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
When I summarize because I'm a teacher. Teacher when I
summarize everything that we've kind of gathered today, you think
your partnershiating, you believe it, you sense it, you feel it.
Step one, have the conversation and share your experience. This
(26:24):
is what I'm seeing, this is what I'm feeling, this
is what I've noticed. Is there something we need to do?
Can my co hosts agree on that?
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Agreed?
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Okay? Step number two ask the questions, ask what you
want to know? Are you seeing somebody? Are you are
you cheating? Are you happy in this relationship? Is there
something that's missing? Is there something we need to do?
Are you willing to do what needs to be done?
Can my co hosts agree on that?
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Agree?
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Okay? Step number three, seek evidence and collect that get
them receipts, Get them receipts. Okay? Can my co hosts
agree on that? Okay? Step number four trust your intuition,
(27:19):
with or without evidence. Trust your intuition, honor what you know,
and recognize that you may be wrong, you may be off,
but at least begin to trust your intuition. Can we
agree on that? Are okay? Step number five employ the
(27:40):
sacred geometry of choice. Choose based on what you're experiencing,
what you're seeing, what you're feeling, what you're hearing. Choose
whether or not this is the relationship and the conditions
of this relationship or what you want for yourself. Can
we agree you on that? All right? Well, we've got
(28:03):
a clear roadmap about what to do. What to do
five steps. I want to have the conversation, share your experience,
ask questions about what you want to know, seek evidence,
trust your intuition, and then make a choice. Anything else
you want to add, mister.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
Luke, I just want to say that, you know, like
you said, the sacred geometry of choice is your power
right and so you can choose to act within that power,
choose to act from a place of you know, emotionless,
or you can choose today what you want and what
you will allow and disallow that can really build you
(28:43):
up or break you down. Ms.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Kira, our baby and the group. Anything else you want
to add.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yeah, definitely, because this is something I've been practicing, just
like you know before anything else. You know, you love yourself.
I feel like that's something that we need to really
like implement in our brains a little bit more like
it's okay, to take care of yourself and you know,
love on yourself before, because you can't love anybody else
(29:13):
if you don't, you know, love yourself. So I feel
like that's very important, you know, for everybody, you know,
because I'm going through I just had you know, well
not just had her, but my daughter. She's two years old,
and it was really hard for me after having her.
So I'm trying to, you know, come back to loving myself.
And it's a journey, but I feel like that's the
(29:35):
first step before you can get into any relationship, is
just focusing on yourself.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
All right, miss pat You've been there, done that. Anything
else you want to add about knowing and your partner's
cheating is.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
To be self aware and always check in with you first,
because before because nothing outside of us is happening, So
always check in first with you. That's, you know, that
was something that I had to develop, is learn how
to check in with me.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
First, because what is it in me that.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Allowing you know, accommodating, And it's not just in relationships,
it's in all relationships, especially the one I'm having with myself.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
So let me ask you this was he was he
was he cheating?
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Yes he was.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Okay, okay, And is that what caused the relationship, I mean,
caused you to finally step out of the relationship, Yes.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Ma'am, it was It was the cheating and yeah he
went and he's currently with cursing now. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
M You know, for the past few weeks, I've been
working on this concept of is your hair on fire?
Is your hair off? And those principles. While I apply them,
I'm offering people to apply them to yourself first. As
(31:05):
Miss pat said, to be self aware. I think there
are also principles that we can apply to a relationship
and when there's a suspicion of cheating. Number one honesty,
Are you being honest with your partner? And can you
trust that your partner is being honest with you just
about where they are in the relationship, where they are
(31:28):
in their life, Because if you don't have honesty, your
hair will eventually burn off your head. The second one
is accountability. Is your partner accountable to you? Are they
accountable for their selves? Are they willing to be accountable
for their behavior their presence in the relationship? Because without accountability,
(31:50):
you will begin to accommodate, tolerate, diminished denied, dismiss those
things that don't honor who you are and that don't bring,
as mister Luke said, fresh air to the relationship. Integrity.
Is this a person who has values that they live by?
Do they have values that they live for? Is this
(32:12):
a person who honors their word? They do what they
say they're gonna do when they and are you a
person of integrity both internal and external? Can I trust
that you will do the right thing even when I'm
not looking? That for me is about integrity and finally, responsibility.
(32:33):
Are we both taking responsibility for the health and the vibrancy,
the air, the life, the nurturing, the nourishment of this relationship.
Because if you don't have those four things honesty, accountability, integrity,
and responsibility by both partners that relationship not only the
(32:55):
hair on the people's head, but that relationship, it's gonna
burn down to the ground. So I want to thank
you for being my very first co host. I think
this was an exciting, exciting conversation, and I'm sure that
there are those of our listeners who are going to
be able to tune right into what you would saying.
(33:17):
I thank you so much for being with me today
and I thank you for listening to The R Spot.
Hopefully you got something that you can use in your
life and we'll be back real soon. In the meantime,
stay in peace and not in peace. It bye. The
R Spot is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
(33:40):
with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite show.
I am a Yamla, your host for this journey. I
was a hopeless love aholic but just could not get
my love to work. Then, after a series of heartbreaks
and deep heartache, I finally got clear about what love
is and what it is not. I want to share
(00:22):
some of what I've learned about lover holism. Welcome to
the R Spot, a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
with iHeartRadio. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, This is the Spot and
(00:48):
I am a Yamla, your guide, your facilitator, some might
even say your teacher, as we delve into the sea,
the ocean of relationships, all kinds of relationships, doing our
best to learn the skills, the tools, the principles, the
practices to make those relationships more peaceful, more fulfilling. Healthy. Yeah,
(01:12):
we want to go for healthy relationships. Now, if you
were with us last week, we started talking about a
topic that you see, sense, feel, believe your partner is cheating,
but you don't have the evidence. And we covered a
lot of ground. But we're going to continue that conversation today.
(01:33):
But I want us to start right here because we
are so conditioned in, programmed, taught, educated to look outside
of ourselves for the answers, so that when we get
the answer on the inside, we don't believe it, we
don't want to hold on to it, and we'll talk
ourselves out of what we know. You know, the first GPS,
(01:58):
the first GPS any human ever had, before it was
in cars, before it was on a smartphone, the first
GPS we ever had was intuition, teaching from within. And
yet there's no place in our society and our educational system,
even in our interactions of being raised or being educated,
(02:22):
have we been taught how to tune into, how to hear,
and how to trust our intuition. So now you grow
up without the necessary skills, tools and information to grow
in your intuition. And your intuition is telling you Boo
Boo is cheating. He's a ball faced liar, and you
(02:43):
know it, and you hear that, And what you want
to do is get evidence in the external world, evidence
outside of yourself. So the question we're going to continue
to discuss my three co hosts and I is what
do you do if and when you know your partner
is cheating, but you're looking for evidence, external evidence? Can
(03:04):
you imagine external evidence? Welcome back, to this conversation. Once
you get the sense or the feeling that someone is
cheating or that's something there's a breakdown in the relationship.
(03:27):
Is the issue the cheating or is the issue the
breakdown in the relationship? I mean, do you think things
are just fine and all of a sudden you get
a sense of cheating or have there been things along
the way that maybe you ignored? What do you think?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Definitely a breakdown already.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
It is already a breakdown in the relationship. Already we
all know nothing outside of it's already happen in an inside.
It's already in the house, it's already going on.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Okay, yeah, okay, mister lewis right.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
It's just a symptom of a disease, right that has
now raised to your level of awareness. And so that
just goes to show that you weren't even even though
you're looking at your partner cheating, Not to say that
there's something that you could have done differently, It just
(04:18):
means that there was somewhere along the relationship that you
actually also checked out of the relationship as well. And
so now because of the misalignment, right now, your back
starts hurting, you know, now, you know, you don't really
wake up with a spring in your step anymore. Right,
there's something different that you can feel, But that person
(04:39):
is already light years ahead. They've already found some type
of remedy, and so they're already onto their own sort
of healing journey for that misalignment. They already felt what
was misaligned, and so they've already found their own little
thing that.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
They have going on.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
But you're just kind of dealing with the pieces of
you being able to detect it. But there was something
that happened, uh in the in the history. So that's
why when people, you know, come to me with their problems,
I'm like, well, you know, there was something that happened
way before this. You got to press the rewind you know,
on your mind and get to the bottom of what's
going on.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Really mmmm, here's a good question. How do you distinguish
or make a distinction between your partner being distracted because
they're cheating and them just being neglectful to your to
the relationship. How do you distinguish that? Ms Kira, I'm
(05:42):
coming to you.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Well, I feel like when you're lazy and neglectful to
the relationship, you'll be able to tell if that's not
cheating per se, because again, like the signs will be
there for example, you know, just like if you're going
through their their device, or you know, if they're just
moving differently, you'll be able to see, you know where
(06:07):
their time is being spent and you know what they're doing.
I feel like neglect is just like, you know, if
we're not, you know, going out on as many days,
but that could be for other reasons like financial hardship,
you know, things like that. It doesn't necessarily mean that
your part is cheating because you know, you feel like
you guys aren't you know, doing as much or they're
not putting as much into the relationship. So I feel
(06:29):
like it's kind of jumping the gun for that. I
feel like you'll have actual signs that you know your
partner is cheating, but it wouldn't be based off of
just not feeling like you're not getting what you need
in the relationship.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Okay, mispath, can you make a distinction between cheating and neglect?
Did you because you've had this experience, did you make
this I didn't make.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
A distinction in between the neglect because the neglect was
when the intimacy stopped. When that stopped? When when the
when the when the love left my house? You know
I would get up every morning, I would fixed breakfast,
and every night we ate dinner together, but you know
as a family, and when the oh, I ate already outside,
(07:18):
you know kind of thing, or I'll get up extra
early so I won't be up early enough to fix breakfast.
You know, those things started leading, Okay, so when the
love started leaving, yeah, And when the joy and the
love started leaving out your house, and you know that's
the neglect, that's the yeah. And then you know the
(07:39):
cheating is in the midst of all of that, when
those things started leaving.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Mister Luke, do you make a distinction or can you?
Should you make a distinction between neglect and cheating?
Speaker 4 (07:52):
Yeah, And that's a you know, should you can you,
you know, make the distinction. You know, it's really one
and the same. Even Miss Pat when she was sort
of explaining it, you know, when the love leaves, it's
almost as though that the cheating is the act, but
the neglect is really the purpose behind the action, right,
(08:16):
It's mostly really really you know, I am neglecting you
by cheating on you with someone else. But I am
neglectful of you is the it's really the it's really
the positionality that you've created between you and that other person.
So really, when we talk about neglectfulness, that looks like,
(08:40):
you know, do I bring you your favorite meal? Do
I stop by, you know, on the way from work
and you know, bring you something thoughtful? Which was something
that I used to do before that I stopped doing it.
And you know, I stop, you know, wearing my hair
in the way that you like to you know, you
know see me, or I stop wearing a particular perfume
(09:02):
that I know that you like. You know, these are
the little things that we do to show the other person.
Are you noticing me right now? Are you seeing me?
Are you seeing the shifts, the changes, the ebbs and
the flows, the seasons of our own relationship?
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Right?
Speaker 4 (09:16):
Because we can grow and we can grow apart. We
can grow together or we can grow apart. And so
sometimes when you have a partner that is not really
interested in the same topics that you're interested in, that's neglectful.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Right.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
If you can't sit and talk to me about my
day at work, you're not interested about, you know, the
people that I work with, my coworkers, and you may
not be interested in the nitty and the gritty, but
I think that's someone that I'm actually, you know, in
a relationship with. They should be interested in the nitty
and the gritty. That that's not, you know, a cause
for something that you can shut down or tune your
(09:51):
ears out of.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
You know, I love it, you know, for me, neglect,
even neglect is a is a form of cheating. You know,
when you're not paying attention to this union that we've
created together. Your mind is elsewhere, your soul is elsewhere,
(10:15):
your your body is elsewhere, whether you're in the bed
with somebody else or not. Sometimes that neglect is the
first sign of emotional cheating. You're you're giving your attention
and your time somewhere else. We're gonna continue the conversation
right after this. Welcome back to the R Spot. I've
(10:47):
got three co hosts on here with me today, and
we are talking about the signs and the evidence of
cheating and when you approach your partner about it, how
you approach your partner about and what do you do
if you don't have physical evidence. I think it's important
that we get clear about what cheating is. So we're
going to talk about that. Here's a question for my
(11:10):
co host. I want a yes or no answer. Okay,
just give me yes or no and I'll call you
and then we can talk about why. Okay, you suspect
your partner's cheating. You feel it, you see it, it's
in the space. Do you search their phone? Yes or no?
Mister Luke, No, Miss Pat no, Miss.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
Caira yes, okay, all right, Okay, you suspect your partner's cheating.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
You can see it, feel it. It's something going on.
Do you get into their social media? Do you do
you check that Facebook? No? Mispath says no, Miss Kira, yes,
mister Luke, yes, okay as two yes, it's in one no,
(12:16):
all right. You suspect your partner is cheating? Do you
follow them? Do you follow them? Yes or no? Miss
Pat for me, okay, mister Luke, yes, ha ha, Miss.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Kira everything follow them like on social media? Or follow
them in real life?
Speaker 1 (12:40):
No? No, follow them in real life? Do you do
you go out to see where they're going and what
they're doing?
Speaker 3 (12:46):
I will, I will?
Speaker 2 (12:49):
I would?
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Okay, yes or the that's two yeses and the no.
You suspect your partner is cheating? Uh, you feel it,
you see it, you sense it. Do you talk to
their friends about it? Yes? Or no, mister Luke, No, no,
Miss Pat no, Miss Kira. Now do you talk to
(13:13):
your friends about it? Miss Caira not friends? No, mister Luke, no,
Miss Pat.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Okay, So let me ask you this when you if
you should you suspect your partner is cheating? How much
snooping is acceptable? How much snooping? How much digging do
you do? Mister Luke? What do you think?
Speaker 4 (13:46):
Yeah? I think my answers are a little bit all
over the place, and I had a couple of surprises
in there. I think the thing that I like to
do is I see myself just a collector of data.
I'm just looking for data points. And so if I'm
just collect data, I just do it from a very
emotionless without emotion. I really don't really try to inject
(14:07):
too much emotion into it. So as long as I'm
collecting the data points, everything is cool. I'm calm, I'm cool, collected.
You won't see any difference in me. I'm just collecting
the information like a detective, you know.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Okay, so everything nothing's off the table. You're gonna look
where the data leads you. You're gonna ask what the
data leads you to. Okay, all right, miss pat When
when you suspect your partner's shooting, how much snooping is acceptable?
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Well, I'm gonna tell you from my experience. Ere My
mother used to always say, you're digging the trash team.
You come up with garbage, right, and that was her favorite.
My brother was that we should be ninety two years old,
so that was her favorite thing to say. Right. So
I never dug in the trash team. That's why I
answered no. But when in prayer, it would just show
up to me. I didn't dig I promise you, yeah,
(14:58):
it would just show up.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Yeah. But but that's why I said if I would
sort of hit you out at lunch with shaquiedah, I'm
coming over to the table because I'm collecting data. I'm
collecting that, yeah, but to.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Dig in your phone and follow you, you know. You know,
in my experience, I had two children, so it was
either I was gonna chase you or take care of them,
so I chose them.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Okay, Ms Caira, if you think your partner's cheating, how
much snooping is acceptable?
Speaker 2 (15:26):
I kind of. I kind of agree with Luke. I'm
going to have a little case folder. So I totally understand.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
You go whip out your lawyer. You're looking for the
evidence so that they're beyond a reasonable doubt. Okay, And
here's another question. How much evidence is enough either for
you to leave or do you make an allegation or
do you present the evidence? How much evidence is enough,
(16:01):
mister Luke? How much evidence?
Speaker 4 (16:02):
Yeah, how much evidence is enough? That's a very very
powerful question because if you really think about it, you know,
when we first started, there was no evidence, right, there
was no tangible evidence that the person can cling to.
Only your soul felt that coldness, right, And so really
I would say that that feeling you felt is enough
(16:25):
from the beginning. And so we can go to miss
pat route, which is saying that you know, what's done
in the dark will will surely come to the light,
and if I ask for the clarity, the clarity will
be presented, or you know, we can fill it up
to the brim and then you can just you know,
have to deal with that, you know, and just kind
of present it in a way where it's like, Okay,
enough is enough, I've seen enough and I've you know,
(16:48):
confirmed that deep pitted feeling, you know, so I think
enough is really just that feeling that you felt from
the beginning.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Okay, miss pat How much evidence is enough to either
leave or make the allegation?
Speaker 3 (17:06):
How much evidence does it have to be?
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Yeah, does it have to be tangible or or could
it be like you said, the love left, We don't
eat together, we're not sleeping together. You forgot my birthday,
you don't show up for me in any kind of way.
How much evidence is enough?
Speaker 3 (17:23):
All of that, all of that, it was enough for
me when it stops showing up. When when the when
you know, when the you know, it's like a house
when you don't you know, if you got a house,
and you had your house for twenty thirty years, if
you didn't start, if you didn't keep working on your house,
your house going to fall apart. So when you wasn't
long to continue working on this house and it all
(17:45):
started to fall apart, and the joy and the love
and the peace and harmony started to leave, and that
was enough to me, That was enough to me.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Okay, ms Kira, you're young, so let me ask you
this way. How many receipts do you need I think
how many.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
I think I would Yeah, I kind of I feel
like I would need as many as I could get.
But you know, if I if I collect as many
as I could get, and that's like a lot, you know,
a little is a lot to me. So it's just
like the fact that I even have all this information
is just like that's enough. Like I feel like you,
you know, you violated my trust at this point, and
(18:26):
it's just something that I don't feel like I would
be able to, you know, come back from. So just
I feel like I don't know. One receipt is enough
for me if I if I suspect it, that's what
it is, you know, like if I see something that's.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Enough for me.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
That's a very good point. Because some relationships have survived cheating,
some have survived. What do you think is required for
a relationship? Well, let me ask you this. Let me
ask you this before I go there. Once you get
your case file, your receipts, your evidence, because all of
(19:06):
y'all have fled and something different, do you pressent the
evidence to the person or do you just hold on
to it until you figure out what you want to do?
What do you do? What do you do, mister Luke,
Do you present the evidence or do you just hold
on to it until you're clear about what you're doing.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
You should definitely hold on to it until you're clear,
because you don't want to move from a place of emotion.
You want to move from a place of I've meditated
on this, I've really done a lot of soul searching,
and now what the ball is in my court? You know,
the train has already left the station, and so now
(19:46):
it's about what are you going to do? And so
even you presenting the evidence is mostly just you know,
you're telling the person this is where you you did.
The person knows what they did at that point, right,
it's just saying that I know what you did. So
it's really just about do you want to stand this
relationship or do you want to mend the relationship from
this point?
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Okay, miss pat what do you do? Do you present
the evidence once you get it, once your case files
is closed, or do you hold on to it until
you're clear about what you're doing?
Speaker 3 (20:19):
You hold on I hold I held on to it
till I was clear, and I was you know, like
I said, did some lot of introspection and had a
lot of self awareness, because I want to say, is
that I, when I did digging within myself, I cheated
on me. First m making like I didn't know what
(20:40):
I knew.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Okay, okay, okay, you violated yourself, You betrayed your own trust.
Yes by staying okay, good good mss caira. Do you
present your receipts I've got receipts right here, or do
you hold on? Do you hold on two her until
(21:03):
you are clear about what you're gonna do?
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Well?
Speaker 2 (21:06):
I feel like with me, Missianla, I have to be
smooth with it. So I can't just present it writ
then and there. I have to because the thing is like,
it doesn't make sense to present that information to them
as soon as you get it if you are going
to just end up, you know, deciding to be with them,
and if you tell them, then they're just gonna feel
(21:27):
like okay, Like she knows that I cheated on her
and so we might get back together. Like she's basically
saying that that's okay, I know what you did, but
we're gonna still be together. So what's the point if
you're gonna get back to that person. That's kind of
how I feel.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
I think that that's an important point because some relationships
have survived cheating. Some relationships have survived. What would be
required for you to survive beyond cheating? And we'll talk
about that when we come back. Welcome back to the
(22:12):
R spot. Let's talk to you, miss Pat, because I'm
hearing I could be wrong that your relationship didn't survive
beyond the cheating. What would be required for you to
survive beyond cheating?
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Well, it didn't survive, of course, it did not survive.
I just I really just had to go to work.
I had to go to work on me. That's all.
That's No, it survived. How I survived, I should say
I had to go. I had to go to work
on myro. I had to go to work, and so
(22:51):
we're en doing that work. It helped me to really
just come into a lot of self awareness and how
I had a nick in that quarter. So that's what tell.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Me more about that. What does that mean? I had
a nickel in that quarter? Can tell me what that means?
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Because I allowed it. I allowed so much to happen.
I accommodated it, I tolerated it.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Okay, So I.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Had a nickel on that quarter if I had fifteen cent.
Speaker 6 (23:22):
But yeah, okay, mister Luke, what would be required to
survive beyond cheating?
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Because we've already established that there were holes or breakdowns
in the relationship anyway, So what would be required to
survive beyond cheating?
Speaker 4 (23:44):
Yeah, I think that the key thing to survive beyond
this cheating is a nakedness. I think that to really
look at someone, look look into their eyes, you know,
gaze into their soul. You know, that's what's really required
to survive beyond the cheatingess. I have to see you
(24:05):
in the way that you want to be seen, and
you have to see me in the way that I
want to be seen. You know, we have to be
naked unto one another. And so what that means is
bearing our truths to one another. There's something in this
relationship that needs air. It's crying out for space, it's
(24:26):
crying out for breath, and so I have to breathe
life into whatever it is, the cracks, the crevices of
your soul that you're not allowing to bring to light,
and so I want to. And I think that that's
what is required if we want to you know, in
the same way that we accommodate the cheating, we have
to also accommodate, you know, the love the light and
(24:48):
bring that forward.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Ms caira Young What would be what would be required
to survive cheating and the the seats that you got.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
I think for me, it would just a big turning
point for me would be like are you taking accountability
for your actions? Like that would be a major thing
just me feeling like, you know, he fully understands the
error and the mistake you know that he made, and
that would be very like detrimental for me. And if
(25:24):
you kind of feel like if you cheat in the relationship,
I feel like it's something internally, you know, like what
we've been talking about that you kind of need to
work on. So if that means like you know, therapy,
I feel like that's really frowned upon, especially like in
the black community as well, then maybe you need to
take that route because those things can also be something
that came from like your childhood or things that you've
(25:47):
seen as well. So it's just we would really have
to like figure out why you did that if we
are going to stay in the relationship. If not, then
it wouldn't work for me.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
When I summarize because I'm a teacher. Teacher when I
summarize everything that we've kind of gathered today, you think
your partnershiating, you believe it, you sense it, you feel it.
Step one, have the conversation and share your experience. This
(26:24):
is what I'm seeing, this is what I'm feeling, this
is what I've noticed. Is there something we need to do?
Can my co hosts agree on that?
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Agreed?
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Okay? Step number two ask the questions, ask what you
want to know? Are you seeing somebody? Are you are
you cheating? Are you happy in this relationship? Is there
something that's missing? Is there something we need to do?
Are you willing to do what needs to be done?
Can my co hosts agree on that?
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Agree?
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Okay? Step number three, seek evidence and collect that get
them receipts, Get them receipts. Okay? Can my co hosts
agree on that? Okay? Step number four trust your intuition,
(27:19):
with or without evidence. Trust your intuition, honor what you know,
and recognize that you may be wrong, you may be off,
but at least begin to trust your intuition. Can we
agree on that? Are okay? Step number five employ the
(27:40):
sacred geometry of choice. Choose based on what you're experiencing,
what you're seeing, what you're feeling, what you're hearing. Choose
whether or not this is the relationship and the conditions
of this relationship or what you want for yourself. Can
we agree you on that? All right? Well, we've got
(28:03):
a clear roadmap about what to do. What to do
five steps. I want to have the conversation, share your experience,
ask questions about what you want to know, seek evidence,
trust your intuition, and then make a choice. Anything else
you want to add, mister.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
Luke, I just want to say that, you know, like
you said, the sacred geometry of choice is your power
right and so you can choose to act within that power,
choose to act from a place of you know, emotionless,
or you can choose today what you want and what
you will allow and disallow that can really build you
(28:43):
up or break you down. Ms.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Kira, our baby and the group. Anything else you want
to add.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yeah, definitely, because this is something I've been practicing, just
like you know before anything else. You know, you love yourself.
I feel like that's something that we need to really
like implement in our brains a little bit more like
it's okay, to take care of yourself and you know,
love on yourself before, because you can't love anybody else
(29:13):
if you don't, you know, love yourself. So I feel
like that's very important, you know, for everybody, you know,
because I'm going through I just had you know, well
not just had her, but my daughter. She's two years old,
and it was really hard for me after having her.
So I'm trying to, you know, come back to loving myself.
And it's a journey, but I feel like that's the
(29:35):
first step before you can get into any relationship, is
just focusing on yourself.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
All right, miss pat You've been there, done that. Anything
else you want to add about knowing and your partner's
cheating is.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
To be self aware and always check in with you first,
because before because nothing outside of us is happening, So
always check in first with you. That's, you know, that
was something that I had to develop, is learn how
to check in with me.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
First, because what is it in me that.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Allowing you know, accommodating, And it's not just in relationships,
it's in all relationships, especially the one I'm having with myself.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
So let me ask you this was he was he
was he cheating?
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Yes he was.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Okay, okay, And is that what caused the relationship, I mean,
caused you to finally step out of the relationship, Yes.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Ma'am, it was It was the cheating and yeah he
went and he's currently with cursing now. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
M You know, for the past few weeks, I've been
working on this concept of is your hair on fire?
Is your hair off? And those principles. While I apply them,
I'm offering people to apply them to yourself first. As
(31:05):
Miss pat said, to be self aware. I think there
are also principles that we can apply to a relationship
and when there's a suspicion of cheating. Number one honesty,
Are you being honest with your partner? And can you
trust that your partner is being honest with you just
about where they are in the relationship, where they are
(31:28):
in their life, Because if you don't have honesty, your
hair will eventually burn off your head. The second one
is accountability. Is your partner accountable to you? Are they
accountable for their selves? Are they willing to be accountable
for their behavior their presence in the relationship? Because without accountability,
(31:50):
you will begin to accommodate, tolerate, diminished denied, dismiss those
things that don't honor who you are and that don't bring,
as mister Luke said, fresh air to the relationship. Integrity.
Is this a person who has values that they live by?
Do they have values that they live for? Is this
(32:12):
a person who honors their word? They do what they
say they're gonna do when they and are you a
person of integrity both internal and external? Can I trust
that you will do the right thing even when I'm
not looking? That for me is about integrity and finally, responsibility.
(32:33):
Are we both taking responsibility for the health and the vibrancy,
the air, the life, the nurturing, the nourishment of this relationship.
Because if you don't have those four things honesty, accountability, integrity,
and responsibility by both partners that relationship not only the
(32:55):
hair on the people's head, but that relationship, it's gonna
burn down to the ground. So I want to thank
you for being my very first co host. I think
this was an exciting, exciting conversation, and I'm sure that
there are those of our listeners who are going to
be able to tune right into what you would saying.
(33:17):
I thank you so much for being with me today
and I thank you for listening to The R Spot.
Hopefully you got something that you can use in your
life and we'll be back real soon. In the meantime,
stay in peace and not in peace. It bye. The
R Spot is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
(33:40):
with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite show.
Host
Iyanla Vanzant
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