March 24, 2022 • 34 mins
Food has the power to heal us. It gives us energy. It allows our bodies to function. But many of us struggle with how to eat mindfully in a way that properly nourishes our bodies. In this episode, Alicia tackles nutrition with filmmaker, actor, and comedian Kevin Smith, and Mackie Shilstone, a fitness, wellness, and sports performance expert. Together they dig into their personal food journeys and break down the importance of maintaining a healthy diet.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
What is it really gonna take to heal ourselves, our
communities and our planet. I'm Alicia Silverstone and this is
the real heal who doesn't love food. It's delicious and
nourishes us. It brings us back to good memories. It
(00:24):
helps our bodies refuel and recover. In this episode, I
sit down with actor, director, screenwriter and film producer Kevin
Smith and Mackie Sholston, author and health, wellness and fitness
expert and Serena Williams fitness trainer. No big deal. We
get into what it means to eat consciously. We talk
about how the food we eat can save our lives. So,
(00:48):
without further ado, let's get into the real heel. Okay um, Hey,
Mackie and Kevin. I am so happy to have you
here and to talk to you about your guys relationship
with food, among other things. Mackie, can we start with you?
(01:11):
Will you introduce yourself and talk about your relationship with food.
My name is Mackie sill Stone and for the last
um or forty three years, I have made a science
of extending careers of professional, tactical and industrial athletes. An
industrial athlete would be my twenty one years with the
(01:33):
umpires of Major League Baseball. Uh Tactical athlete might be
my work with special operators out of Fort Gregg and
professional athletes have ranged now my thirteen years now with
Serena Williams to Peyton Manning to world class boxers to
NBA every sport you can think of, and food is
(01:55):
the basis or the energy you have. The food is
a critical part of my world and personally I am
basically known as Mediterranean Mackie. I follow a Mediterranean diet
o pisco Mediterranean diet. I don't eat red meat, I
don't eat fried foods, and I don't eat posture. But
(02:15):
typically if it flies or swims, I'll take a look
at it. Okay, let me ask you, Kevin. Can I
tell a little story about you before you introduced yourself,
just my experience of you. So before I met you
on the world of doing our show together, you were
legendary in my home when I was married. My ex
(02:37):
husband loved your work and I've always lived a little
bit under a rock, So I didn't know you until
he showed me you, and then I understood that everybody
knew you. So it was so fun to get to
meet you, and then at some point he tells me, oh,
Kevin's vegan, So that was another funny thing. Then you
asked me to do the show with you, your Masters
of the Universe, and you were such a great director,
(02:59):
and I thought it was such a fun experience and
I would love to do it with you in the
real world, not just in the virtual boost. But anyway,
that's my experience of you, and you were kind enough
to come on the show, and I saw your show
with your kid, who's a big girl. But I'm just
so proud of you guys for making this change and
doing what you're doing. So now you can tell me
your version of introducing yourself totally. Oh my god. First off,
(03:23):
thank you. My name is Kevin Smith. I've been a filmmaker,
I guess since uh while doing it professionally since nine
made a movie called Clerks, and I've been making it
ever again and again ever since. Um, I kind of
moved from movies and like podcasting and hosting and I
just generally smeared myself all across the pop culture landscape.
(03:46):
In case one plate stopped spinning, I could have something
else to kinda go to. So a couple of years
ago coming up in one month from today. As a
matter of fact, it'll be four years since I had
a massive heart attack. I was shooting a Showtime special,
and you shoot two shows in order to make them one.
And after the first show, I felt weird and I
(04:09):
didn't know what it was. Just couldn't catch my breath.
Thought I was too stoned. I thought I'd smoked far
too much weed before the show. Thankfully, Jason mused. His
wife Jordan, who runs our company h and Emily, who
was doing my hair and makeup. They called an ambulance,
you know, and I was like, oh my god, don't
do that, Like this is so embarrassing. I'm just too high.
And when the paramedics got there, the first responders, this
(04:32):
kids saved my life. Man. They didn't tell me what
was going on. You know. I was sitting there in
a chair with my hands over my head and they
were like, oh my god, silent Bob's celebrating a touchdown,
and so they were like, what's matter. I was like,
I can't quite breathe. I said, I can't catch my breath.
I can breathe, I can't catch my breath. And they
put leads on you and stuff, and I was heavier
(04:52):
than I was a lot heavier, and uh so they
knew something I did and they figured out right there
in the room that I was having a heart attack,
and so they played it so cool. They were just like, um,
Mr Smith, like, we know that it's a real hassle,
but will you take a ride with us to the
emergency room? Like it would make us look so good
(05:13):
with our bosses. And I was like, this is gonna
be so embarrassing when I get there and it just
turns out I'm really high. They like, it will be
embarrassing for everybody, but if you take a ride with us,
it will make us Have you ever been in an
ambulance before? And I was like, well no, never, Like, Oh,
you're gonna love it, it'scause there's such a good time.
So I was like, all right, let's go to the
hospital in front of kids. Why not? And I got
there and the doctor walked up to me and it
(05:35):
was just like, how do you feel on a pain
level zero to ten? What's your pain level? And I
said negative three, I'm not in pain, and he goes, well,
then you're doing it wrong, and I was like doing
what wrong? He goes it's supposed to be in a
lot of pain if you have a heart attack. As
I'm having an art attack, he goes, you are having
a massive heart attack right now. So my kid the
next day is just like, you know, please think about
going plant based, you know, And I was like, you
(05:57):
know what, I ain't anyway, I wanted for forties in years,
I will try your wacky thing for six months. It's
the least I could do for you. And it seemed
to cheer her up and stuff. So the very next
day I started a plant bage journey that was gonna
be four years ago, and I haven't looked back since. Man,
I've been full vegan all the way. And you are
(06:17):
somebody who I knew was in space like well before
even my kids. Like I remember, of course at leash
you're going well back to like beyond clueless and to
the aerospit videos and stuff. But when I heard about
you going vegan, it was you went like hardcore, like
raw vegan and stuff. You actually eat vegetables. I only
like a kum quad if they turned it into a meatball,
(06:38):
but you actually take things out of the earth and
put them in your body, which blows my mind. But
you were one of the first people, like in my
world kind of at least in my sphere of entertainment
or pop culture that went hardcore vegan. And I remember
at the time everyone was like, what a nutbar And
now like I am legit in that world and have
(06:59):
been for four years, but like I have, I've seen
the benefits firsthand. This is not I'm not a person
that's like I'm doing it because it's trendy. I chose
to do it because it was the option to save
my life at that time, and I've never looked back. Mackie,
(07:30):
will you tell me a little bit about My understanding
is that Serena Williams was inspired by Venus because both
of them had health problems and both of them went
vegan or tried to be plant based, or because Venus
and I did a thing in Canada together where she
was talking about her plant based inclinations, And will you
(07:51):
tell me a little bit more about that. You're right,
I've worked with Serena for thirteen years and I'm always
with Venus and they share multiple physical therapists that I've
worked with. And when Venus was diagnosed a number of
years ago with strogun syndrome, which is an autoimmune disease
(08:13):
that goes in and out of remission. Because they shared
and I've been through many many chefs, and I've actually
done some specific testing with Serena um and all my athletes,
she and Venus because there was this common bond of being.
They were living together at the same house in the
same time that they had one chef, and this was
(08:37):
a a need situation for Venus, and Serena went along
because of that's her big sister. We'll do it together,
and she stayed on it. Now, I will tell you
this because it's out there in reality. Serena is avoiding gluten,
(08:59):
which is a weak protein. There are those people that
suffer from Celiac's disease, which is a clinical condition where
gluten can create irritable bowel syndrome can create real devastation
in the body, whereas a gluten sensitivity is a milder
(09:20):
it's more like an allergy. So the vegetarian, or let's say,
to use Kevin's word, the true vegan, it was easy
to meet that challenge. Now, I will tell you, having
almost analyzed every type of diet out there in my
hospital affiliated wellness programs many of the people that we encounter,
(09:43):
especially women on vegan type diets, which is Kevin said
is wonderful for the vascular system down the line. If
you don't do things right with the average age of
menopause in this country as sift to one point four
years and periamenopause beginning at forty one, where they're significant
changes in estrogen, a woman could begin to lose bow
(10:04):
mineral density, and then by the time she's forty one,
if she does not balance the amino acid structure with
with a vegan intake, she could begin to lose lean muscle.
And that is a real critical situation for a woman
moving into the menopause because normally that woman in general
(10:26):
is at risk for increase in visual fact around the
mid section, and so that's where the vegan intake is
going to have to be much more structured the further
you go in your life cycle, especially as a woman. Well,
it's interesting you say that, because I am a woman,
and I am forty five years old, and I have
(10:46):
begun that journey, and I hear you that if we
don't eat well, if anyone doesn't eat well, because I
wouldn't trade a Kentucky fried chicken diet. I wouldn't say
that that was better because it had meat in it
for a forty year old woman than for a vegan,
but the ideas that we all have to eat well
right in order to thrive. And so when I've heard
(11:07):
people in the past when I first went vegan, people
would tell me, I mean, they tell me my kids
shouldn't be vegan because that's really bad for children. Look
what it's going to do to them. And yet I
can point to many, many, many people, even doctors, who
will show you that children thrive and when they're in
their forties they're fine and so and my son is
an example of that, having never needed medicine. I mean,
(11:28):
it's incredible. And myself, the bone density thing, I know
what you're talking about because there's this body worker man
that I know, and he always says, like, you know
that bone He's always checking the bone density. But really,
if you exercise and put muscles on your body and
strengthen yourself and just continue to eat well. And what
I meet, my eating well is my superhero diet in
(11:50):
the kind diet, and I'm sure it's how you have
your your people eat which is you're making sure that
you're having beans, you know, twice a day or tempe
or tofu whatever reform. But you're getting full protein in
your body, and you're having whole grains, not in the form.
You're not having white bread sandwiches. You're having keenoa and
brown rice, and you're eating seaweed, which gives you minerals.
(12:11):
You want minerals and calcium, and you're getting that from
your sesame seeds and your tahini and your You want
your grains, your beans and your greens. And if I'm
getting that, then I know I'm getting every mineral I need,
so I'm not lacking in anything. But you're absolutely correct
that most people don't know how to eat it all anyway,
and they're just like you know, they might go vegan
(12:32):
and just eat veggie burgers every single day. Now, if
they were eating hog and DAWs and regular burgers, I'd
still pick that diet over the other one they had personally,
So I hear you that we have to be very
careful with our diets for everyone. But I don't single
out I don't personally single out vegans is the issue.
It's it's just good food is the issue. For everyone.
In my opinion, I think you're absolutely right. I read
(12:56):
all the clinical research I see it. I read technical
journals for forty three years, five days a week from
five thirty to six thirty before I trained for an
hour and a half irrespective of athletes or whatever. And
I can tell you the clinical research is there. If
you're doing it the right way, and you've outlined the
right way, it will work extremely well for you through
(13:18):
the rest of your life. But the key is you
have to be like Alicia or you have to be
that dedicated. And you see, there's something called commitment and contribution.
You have to be committed, and Kevin is committed because
of his life challenge, and in your case, you made
a commitment to do that. So I agree with you completely.
(13:41):
That's true. I never would have chosen to go vegan
without the heart attack instigating it. So you know, I'll
meet a lot of people who I'm like, go vegan
and work for me. Whenever people like are like you,
what happened here? You lost a lot of weight, I'm
like the simple answers. I went vegan, and you know,
you get a lot of people gone like, wow, I
like meat too much and stuff like that, and I'm like, here,
(14:04):
this is what it did for me. I'm not selling
it to you. But we're Americans, and it's all about
obscene amount of choice. Um, you walk into an American
grocery store versus like a British grocery store four times
as large. Even the cereal aisle alone, the cold cereal
aisle is just like massive. It's all about choice because
(14:25):
food is the only true joy that most people have
left in this world. That's free. And it costs money
to eat. We know that, but places make it incredibly
cheap because you know, shy of you know, doing drugs.
Having a cup of coffee or eating a good meal
or even a crappy meal feels good. You know, the
endorphins get released. We feel satiety. It's a good feeling.
(14:48):
And Americans, and I I was, I'm one and I
continue to be one, and it's baked into my DNA.
We don't eat to fuel the body. We eat to entertain,
We eat to please ourselves. We eat as reward. I
had such a great day, I'm gonna I deserve this food.
I had to relearn it is not that food is
not entertainment. Food is not joy. Um, when you make
(15:11):
it that, then it becomes a destination. And I had
to learn that food was not my destination. Food was
just something that I have to do along the way
to fuel the body. And you know, I became an
intermittent faster, pretty hardcore. Um Like, basically, I'm already on
a like eighteen six diet every day in terms of
(15:32):
like the hours that I owe these six hour eating window,
and I generally increase that to a twenty and four
our eating window, and then I'll go for like three
or four day fast it's sometimes seven where it's just
water and no intake whatsoever, because I still have a
lot of Stewart energy. And I'll tell you right now,
(15:53):
like post heart attack, I was very vigilant about like
this is gonna keep me alive. But as we know,
in vegan world, they got bad food for you as well.
Just because it vegan doesn't mean it's necessarily good for you.
I mean, let's sugar. I wish sugar wasn't vegan. It is,
and so it's in everything, you know, mostly, so I
had to kind of re learn to like eat like
(16:14):
this isn't about having a good time. And then you know,
you'll do good over a long period of time and
then backslide into bad behaviors lately, Like I had a
dog that was passing away before the end of the year,
rescue dog that we've had for six years, and we
all loved her, and it was a real convalescent period. Man.
I was like, for four months straight, I spend an
(16:35):
inordinate amount of time staring at this dog's asshole because
she couldn't get up to go to the bathroom. So
I was constantly on dog duty and whatnot. And during
that time, I grief eight. I ate all my grief.
I hate my feelings and stuff like that. And I
didn't think about like you had a heart attack now,
mind you. I didn't slip. I didn't go non vegan.
But they got vegan ice cream and just because it's
(16:56):
made of cash, he's don't make it any better for you.
They got vegan cheese just because may of you know,
a plant doesn't mean it's not fatty. There's still fat
in a vegan diet. And so I started grief eeding.
Then I started after the dog passed away to make
myself feel better entertainment eating where it's like, let me
find my favorite show PLoP down in front of the TV.
(17:17):
It's two hours long, and I'm gonna feed the entire time.
And you know that that way lies ruined. Man. So
even if you are vegan, if you're living strictly plant based,
consuming that many calories, that much of anything, particularly in
a in a sustained period of like non motility, is
just bad for the body. So for the last two
(17:37):
weeks now, I've been hike and running in every day,
doing the four mile that I used to do all
the time and whatnot. And now I've been um kind
of bringing my diet back in in a sensible way.
I let bread slip back in. You know, when you
mentioned gluten, I was like, I wish I was. I mean,
some people have Siliac would be like, never wish this
on yourself. But if I had, if I couldn't eat gluten,
(17:58):
that'd be better for me. Unfortunately, only you know I can.
It doesn't affect me other than just makes me happy.
And so I have to like keep an eye on
the prize, which is like food sustained you. It's not
meant to entertain you, it's not meant to reward you,
it's not meant to feel good. It's not meant to
take the place of a positive feeling. It's literally meant
(18:20):
to just give you the energy you need so that
your body can move thank do what you need to
do until you get to the next meal. Man. And
so it's it's not one could go vegan, but there's
behaviors that you have to like drop that are baked
in as as an American man. They make it so
easy to eat in this country and so cheap. But
(18:40):
none of the food is very good for you. Man,
it's just reachable. It's just there. I want to say
that I agree with you guys, and that I know
how to do. I know that I can. I'm a
foodie me too, and so I do allow myself to
be a foodie still. And I have made it so
that when I make bok CHOI drizzled with lemon and
(19:01):
flax seed oil and umaboshi plum and some toasted seeds,
it is quite delicious. Like it's just as delicious. And
I think your tongue has to change, you know, when
we're used to eating so much sugar and all that
dairy and all that salt, your body doesn't even know.
Your tongue is numb. So that when you do a
little fast or you do a little cleanse, or you've
(19:22):
started eating really clean, if you've been eating really you know,
whole grains and seaweeds, more macro. When you eat that way,
you know, like if you fast for a few days
and you have a raspberry, it's orgasmic. You're like, this
is the most incredible taste. But if you're just eating
sugar all the time, then you're not going to appreciate
that raspberry. I think you're right that you have to
change the mentality and you can't be looking for food
(19:44):
to do that. And you have to accept that food
is really specifically to make your life work. And you
want to feel good and you want to be able
to walk to the bathroom or have sex with your
wife or do whatever the things are that you want
to be able to do, and you're not gonna be
able to do them as well if you're filled with
all kinds of junk. I wanted to ask you, Kevin
(20:17):
about your wife Jen how she, long before you thought
of any of this, had the idea that you guys,
that your daughter shouldn't drink milk. This wasn't a time
when it was like it was the milk Doesn't Body
good campaign. I mean, it was like radical taboo that
you were Why did she think this? And and then
(20:39):
it's so interesting to me that your wife and your
daughter were so ahead of you with this, and then
it took it took you almost dying to get it.
Why wouldn't you listen to these brilliant women beforehand explain yourself?
They they you know, they were health nicks as far
as I was concerned, which was weird because the kid
wasn't you know, growing up the kid looked more like
(20:59):
me and not. And then as she got into like
her like early teens, uh, like Jen's jeans kind of
kicked in and stuff. So for me, like I remember
Jen early on, like as soon as the kid was
born was well, she breastfed the kid up until you know,
(21:20):
she couldn't anymore. And then after that, I assumed the
kid would drink milk, like I drank milk and everyone
in my family drank milk. And she was like, I'm
not gonna give her milk. I was like, what are
you gonna give her? She's like soy, And I was like,
a kid needs a milk. She's like, no, she doesn't like,
especially don't need an animal's milk. Kid needed my milk.
She got it, She's done. You're not supposed to be
(21:40):
given a human being like animals milk somebody else. You know,
years before my kid would quote me, not your mom,
not your milk. Jennifer was essentially saying the same thing.
She was like, why would I give my kid like
milk from some animal, Like you know, I'm gonna give
her soy. So the kid never drank milk or entire
of life growing up, So that was one less thing
(22:02):
she had to throw off when when she went vegan. Jennifer,
I remember earlier in our relationship, like probably after the
kid was born, she suddenly turned off to meat. I
think she might have seen a documentary, but she was
just like, you know, because she used to eat chicken
and hamburgers and and bacon. She wasn't a huge like
meat person, but you know, the average amount in her
(22:25):
in her American diet. And then she pulled it all out.
She was like, I'm not eating animals. And then she
had a kind of on again off again relationship with eggs,
you know, where she was like I'll eat white, and
then she was like I'm not eating any of it,
but you know, cheese, she wouldn't leave behind. That was
the one thing. So that's what kept her as a vegetarian.
So she was vegetarian long before the kid went vegan,
(22:48):
which means long before I went vegan, and was kind
of the example. And when the kid went vegan, she
did cite Jennifer. She was like, mom, my whole life
has not been eating meat, and here I am like
eating meat and we all get together on Thanksgiving here
in the house, we all eat meat. Mom doesn't like,
I'm gonna be like that. So yeah, the wife was
the example. But the example that never set in for me.
(23:11):
My wife is incredibly thin, has always been thinner than me.
So I was like, well, there it is. The lesson
is you know, you live like that and you look
like that. But I assumed it was too late. I
never figured i'd make a life change, you know that
big go vegan, drop that much weight and stuff that
that came along with fear, you know, and and so
so many people ask me about like like what did
(23:33):
you do? And I was like I got scared, Like
you need to get scared, man, You need to scare
people sometimes because it's so easy to forget. Like for
years I was very very heavy, and you know, people
would they stopped calling me like fat, and they just
start calling you big guy, hey, big guy, and like
I was like, I am the big guy and I
(23:53):
am in charge here, and you forget that big guys
like a double entendre as well. And some people just
don't to hurt your feelings so they say nothing. So
you know, in in going plant based, when the weight
it fell off, then you hear a lot of people
go like, oh man, you look great, and you're like, well,
thank you. Why didn't you intervene sooner? But I would
never have heard them. Everyone in the world could have
(24:15):
sat me down. Affleck himself could have been like, I
will work out with you and put you on my
exact diet. You will look like me, except shorter and
not as pretty. And I would never have heard that.
I wasn't ready to receive it until my back was
against the wall. So you know, you you want people
to not be in that position, but sometimes that's all
it's gonna take. That's the only thing that will make
(24:38):
them make that leath sort of healthier lifestyle. Because this
country makes it so easy to live a very unhealthy
lifestyle while still believing that you're eating three squares a
day and stuff. Alicia, there's one thing Kevin made me
think about. It's a little different. I agree with him
on the milk, I haven't had it in years, but
there's something that I think might I don't want to
(24:59):
use the word say all, but might help to convince.
From a female perspective, you're you're you're you're in your
mid forties. One of the important things is reducing the
risk of breast cancer, and diet can play a significant role.
It has a lot to do with the ratio of
two to sixteen estradial and estra dial is wanted three
hormones in the female system, beside progesterone and testosterone. By
(25:23):
getting in the cruciferous vegetable which are resistant starch vegetables
that would be broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, all of those vegetables,
a woman can begin to normalize the crew to sixteen ratio,
and when that ratio gets too far out with the sixteen,
the woman's risk for breast cancer goes up. So the
(25:44):
diet can have a significant effect. On the man's side,
we're at risk of prostate cancer. Chances are those of
us that don't get that. If we're lucky enough not
to get it, we may die with it, but not
because of it. And by getting in the same type
of vegetables we will be able to reduce the issue
(26:09):
with benign prostate enlargement because in a in a man,
the die indole methane in broccoli and cabbage and the
sulforaphane in broccoli will actually reduce the risk of prostate
cancer for a man. And you can pick up your calcium.
Broccoli is one of the highest amounts of it. Forget
(26:31):
about the milk uh and fortified foods, but you can
pick that up. So the cruciferous vegetables are stars for
women in breast cancer and men with frenstion of prostate
enlargement and cancer. Mackie, why do you think so Kevin
is explaining that he's incredibly stubborn and that he would
(26:53):
not there was no nothing, even probably you telling him
that information prior to having his heart attack. He wouldn't
have heard it, right, So do you think there are
a bunch of people out there who can hear it
and can like what does it take for someone to
go I do want to feel good. I do want
(27:13):
to live my best life. I actually would like to
be able to sleep well. I would like to not
have headaches. I would not like to take medication for things.
I would like to have the life that I was
given by this magnificent experience of life. Do you think
that there are more people like Kevin who have to
be hit by a truck to get it or you know?
(27:35):
Or are there a lot of people who can find
this healing in a more gentle way? What do you think? Well,
I tell you want to know. I think COVID has
been a game changer right now what people have not done.
The thing I tell people is the title of the
book that you can give away to your of your
audience on my website's called stop renting your Health. And
right now people are renting their health. And when your
(27:56):
health owns you, that's when you're in trouble. But if
you can take ownership of your health. For instance, on
UM you asked the question I will ask someone. Did
you plan more for your wedding than you did for
your marriage? Do you have a warranty on your car
but not on your body? Do you take care of
your pet better than you take care of yourself. But
(28:17):
right now COVID has changed things. I have seen people
so afraid and are doing things to get back their immunity.
And with age we get something called imman no senescence.
Immano senescence says on the Starship Enterprise. When the Klingons
are shooting at us and our four shields are up,
(28:40):
it's protecting us. But when the four shields are up,
we cannot fire out. Well, what's happening is with age,
our four shields are coming down and we're taking too
many hits. So you have to do everything to reduce
inflammation and build your own adaptive immunity. And if you
can do that, you will take ownership of your health
(29:02):
and you will have a higher quality of life. And
Alicia Kevin, we can only save those that want to
be saved. True that it's it's yeah, you can't force
feed this to anybody pun intended. It's uh. It's a
choice that people make, not not just going plant based,
but choosing a healthier lifestyle. And and to be fair,
(29:25):
you know some people would love to do it, but
don't have the means, don't have the time. Um, there's
a myth about like, being vegan is so expensive, not necessarily,
particularly if you're cooking at home. So don't let cost
be something that kind of keeps you from looking for
better health. Uh time, Unfortunately, nobody can give you more
(29:48):
of that, So it does require, like you know, if
you want to eat healthier, don't ever eat out, don't
eat food to others. Prepare and stuff. But that means
you've got to make the time to prepare the food
you're up. In the long run, it works out. I mean,
I've got based on my job, I got a nordin
amount of free time. But lately I've started preparing my
own food. I was eating off of Postmates, it was
(30:10):
all vegan joints, but I've kind of put that to
the side and I've just been making hummus and and
beans constantly. Um, I've learned how to make hummus, and
I broke the shackles of a big corporate hummus from
my wrists so I can make my own hummus. I'm no,
I don't have to work for Somber anymore. Now I've
worked for CAD. I make my own damn hummus. And
(30:33):
like that sess to me. You know, the teeny stuff
was something I didn't even realize was so good for you,
like my you know. I started reading the back of
the jar and then I started looking up online and
I was like, there's all sorts of healthy stuff in here.
I want to thank you both so much for this conversation. Mackie,
I really really appreciate your knowledge of the human body
(30:55):
and also the disease that that is taking people over
and how much you know about that and how to
conquer it. And I really enjoyed hearing all about that.
And I love hearing all of your stories. And Kevin,
of course, you are I have so much love for you,
and I just love hearing you tell your story of
what happened to you and um, both of you have
(31:18):
been incredible to talk to. I'm really grateful. This was
a delightful conversation and I enjoyed it. I hope other
people will enjoy it. And thank you for coming and
talking to me. Well, Licia, thank you very much. You're
you're You're very kind to single me out, and Kevin
to get to know you and hear your story a commitment.
You don't hear a lot of that, and I've seen
(31:40):
enough knowing what isn't commitment. So I'm I'm honored to
have really had shared some moments with God bless you both,
and I wish only the best and keep up what
you're doing and stay strong, Mackie, do your dad proud.
Like we said before, you're fascinating man. Thank you for
sharing your story with us, and you give me hope that, uh,
(32:00):
you know, when I reach an age where the rest
of the darkness falls out of my beard and it
all goes as white as that hair, that maybe I
could still be above ground. Man, I'm gonna take a
page out of your book. Um, you, Alicia, have just
devoted your life to raising a human being, to making
(32:20):
a strong, smart human being like anybody can have a kid.
You're you're taking parenting to another place. It's so insanely admirable,
especially having raised a kid myself and knows what goes
into it. You're doing way better than I ever did,
and my kid turned out okay. But you are so
(32:41):
incredibly hands on like I. Whenever I read about your
relationship with him, it just makes me go like I
wish I could go back in time and do better
with my kid. Um, hats off man, Like we all
get to accomplish things in life, and sometimes, particularly in
our business, we forget that nothing is more important than
(33:01):
like what we're here to do, which is like, here's
another human being, and you've set up this little human
being for life. So well man, And what a beautiful
relationship you guys got. Alicia, thank you for having me
on for chit chat, for always leading, always being an example,
taking the hits when people didn't understand, when people like you, know,
like you said, man, people going like, let's do ten
(33:22):
minutes of vegan jokes because it's so wacky, people like
you and specifically you help normalize it for people like
me to jump into it years later. So thank you.
Thanks for having me up. Thank you so much, both
of you. To dig deeper into this episodes topic and resources,
(33:44):
visit The kind Life dot com. The Real Hell is
an I Heart Radio production made in partnership with Frequency Media.
I'm your host. Alicia Silverstone from I Heart Radio. Are
managing producer is Lindsay Offfman from Frequency Media. Michelle Corey
is our executive producer. Jordan's Rizzieri is our producer, and
(34:07):
Monty Leonard and Laura Boyman are our associate producers. Sydney
Evans is our dialogue editor and Claire bit Of Gary
Curtis is our mixer and sound designer. This podcast is
available on the I Heart Radio app, Spotify, Apple podcasts,
Google Podcasts, and wherever podcasts are found.
What is it really gonna take to heal ourselves, our
communities and our planet. I'm Alicia Silverstone and this is
the real heal who doesn't love food. It's delicious and
nourishes us. It brings us back to good memories. It
(00:24):
helps our bodies refuel and recover. In this episode, I
sit down with actor, director, screenwriter and film producer Kevin
Smith and Mackie Sholston, author and health, wellness and fitness
expert and Serena Williams fitness trainer. No big deal. We
get into what it means to eat consciously. We talk
about how the food we eat can save our lives. So,
(00:48):
without further ado, let's get into the real heel. Okay um, Hey,
Mackie and Kevin. I am so happy to have you
here and to talk to you about your guys relationship
with food, among other things. Mackie, can we start with you?
(01:11):
Will you introduce yourself and talk about your relationship with food.
My name is Mackie sill Stone and for the last
um or forty three years, I have made a science
of extending careers of professional, tactical and industrial athletes. An
industrial athlete would be my twenty one years with the
(01:33):
umpires of Major League Baseball. Uh Tactical athlete might be
my work with special operators out of Fort Gregg and
professional athletes have ranged now my thirteen years now with
Serena Williams to Peyton Manning to world class boxers to
NBA every sport you can think of, and food is
(01:55):
the basis or the energy you have. The food is
a critical part of my world and personally I am
basically known as Mediterranean Mackie. I follow a Mediterranean diet
o pisco Mediterranean diet. I don't eat red meat, I
don't eat fried foods, and I don't eat posture. But
(02:15):
typically if it flies or swims, I'll take a look
at it. Okay, let me ask you, Kevin. Can I
tell a little story about you before you introduced yourself,
just my experience of you. So before I met you
on the world of doing our show together, you were
legendary in my home when I was married. My ex
(02:37):
husband loved your work and I've always lived a little
bit under a rock, So I didn't know you until
he showed me you, and then I understood that everybody
knew you. So it was so fun to get to
meet you, and then at some point he tells me, oh,
Kevin's vegan, So that was another funny thing. Then you
asked me to do the show with you, your Masters
of the Universe, and you were such a great director,
(02:59):
and I thought it was such a fun experience and
I would love to do it with you in the
real world, not just in the virtual boost. But anyway,
that's my experience of you, and you were kind enough
to come on the show, and I saw your show
with your kid, who's a big girl. But I'm just
so proud of you guys for making this change and
doing what you're doing. So now you can tell me
your version of introducing yourself totally. Oh my god. First off,
(03:23):
thank you. My name is Kevin Smith. I've been a filmmaker,
I guess since uh while doing it professionally since nine
made a movie called Clerks, and I've been making it
ever again and again ever since. Um, I kind of
moved from movies and like podcasting and hosting and I
just generally smeared myself all across the pop culture landscape.
(03:46):
In case one plate stopped spinning, I could have something
else to kinda go to. So a couple of years
ago coming up in one month from today. As a
matter of fact, it'll be four years since I had
a massive heart attack. I was shooting a Showtime special,
and you shoot two shows in order to make them one.
And after the first show, I felt weird and I
(04:09):
didn't know what it was. Just couldn't catch my breath.
Thought I was too stoned. I thought I'd smoked far
too much weed before the show. Thankfully, Jason mused. His
wife Jordan, who runs our company h and Emily, who
was doing my hair and makeup. They called an ambulance,
you know, and I was like, oh my god, don't
do that, Like this is so embarrassing. I'm just too high.
And when the paramedics got there, the first responders, this
(04:32):
kids saved my life. Man. They didn't tell me what
was going on. You know. I was sitting there in
a chair with my hands over my head and they
were like, oh my god, silent Bob's celebrating a touchdown,
and so they were like, what's matter. I was like,
I can't quite breathe. I said, I can't catch my breath.
I can breathe, I can't catch my breath. And they
put leads on you and stuff, and I was heavier
(04:52):
than I was a lot heavier, and uh so they
knew something I did and they figured out right there
in the room that I was having a heart attack,
and so they played it so cool. They were just like, um,
Mr Smith, like, we know that it's a real hassle,
but will you take a ride with us to the
emergency room? Like it would make us look so good
(05:13):
with our bosses. And I was like, this is gonna
be so embarrassing when I get there and it just
turns out I'm really high. They like, it will be
embarrassing for everybody, but if you take a ride with us,
it will make us Have you ever been in an
ambulance before? And I was like, well no, never, Like, Oh,
you're gonna love it, it'scause there's such a good time.
So I was like, all right, let's go to the
hospital in front of kids. Why not? And I got
there and the doctor walked up to me and it
(05:35):
was just like, how do you feel on a pain
level zero to ten? What's your pain level? And I
said negative three, I'm not in pain, and he goes, well,
then you're doing it wrong, and I was like doing
what wrong? He goes it's supposed to be in a
lot of pain if you have a heart attack. As
I'm having an art attack, he goes, you are having
a massive heart attack right now. So my kid the
next day is just like, you know, please think about
going plant based, you know, And I was like, you
(05:57):
know what, I ain't anyway, I wanted for forties in years,
I will try your wacky thing for six months. It's
the least I could do for you. And it seemed
to cheer her up and stuff. So the very next
day I started a plant bage journey that was gonna
be four years ago, and I haven't looked back since. Man,
I've been full vegan all the way. And you are
(06:17):
somebody who I knew was in space like well before
even my kids. Like I remember, of course at leash
you're going well back to like beyond clueless and to
the aerospit videos and stuff. But when I heard about
you going vegan, it was you went like hardcore, like
raw vegan and stuff. You actually eat vegetables. I only
like a kum quad if they turned it into a meatball,
(06:38):
but you actually take things out of the earth and
put them in your body, which blows my mind. But
you were one of the first people, like in my
world kind of at least in my sphere of entertainment
or pop culture that went hardcore vegan. And I remember
at the time everyone was like, what a nutbar And
now like I am legit in that world and have
(06:59):
been for four years, but like I have, I've seen
the benefits firsthand. This is not I'm not a person
that's like I'm doing it because it's trendy. I chose
to do it because it was the option to save
my life at that time, and I've never looked back. Mackie,
(07:30):
will you tell me a little bit about My understanding
is that Serena Williams was inspired by Venus because both
of them had health problems and both of them went
vegan or tried to be plant based, or because Venus
and I did a thing in Canada together where she
was talking about her plant based inclinations, And will you
(07:51):
tell me a little bit more about that. You're right,
I've worked with Serena for thirteen years and I'm always
with Venus and they share multiple physical therapists that I've
worked with. And when Venus was diagnosed a number of
years ago with strogun syndrome, which is an autoimmune disease
(08:13):
that goes in and out of remission. Because they shared
and I've been through many many chefs, and I've actually
done some specific testing with Serena um and all my athletes,
she and Venus because there was this common bond of being.
They were living together at the same house in the
same time that they had one chef, and this was
(08:37):
a a need situation for Venus, and Serena went along
because of that's her big sister. We'll do it together,
and she stayed on it. Now, I will tell you
this because it's out there in reality. Serena is avoiding gluten,
(08:59):
which is a weak protein. There are those people that
suffer from Celiac's disease, which is a clinical condition where
gluten can create irritable bowel syndrome can create real devastation
in the body, whereas a gluten sensitivity is a milder
(09:20):
it's more like an allergy. So the vegetarian, or let's say,
to use Kevin's word, the true vegan, it was easy
to meet that challenge. Now, I will tell you, having
almost analyzed every type of diet out there in my
hospital affiliated wellness programs many of the people that we encounter,
(09:43):
especially women on vegan type diets, which is Kevin said
is wonderful for the vascular system down the line. If
you don't do things right with the average age of
menopause in this country as sift to one point four
years and periamenopause beginning at forty one, where they're significant
changes in estrogen, a woman could begin to lose bow
(10:04):
mineral density, and then by the time she's forty one,
if she does not balance the amino acid structure with
with a vegan intake, she could begin to lose lean muscle.
And that is a real critical situation for a woman
moving into the menopause because normally that woman in general
(10:26):
is at risk for increase in visual fact around the
mid section, and so that's where the vegan intake is
going to have to be much more structured the further
you go in your life cycle, especially as a woman. Well,
it's interesting you say that, because I am a woman,
and I am forty five years old, and I have
(10:46):
begun that journey, and I hear you that if we
don't eat well, if anyone doesn't eat well, because I
wouldn't trade a Kentucky fried chicken diet. I wouldn't say
that that was better because it had meat in it
for a forty year old woman than for a vegan,
but the ideas that we all have to eat well
right in order to thrive. And so when I've heard
(11:07):
people in the past when I first went vegan, people
would tell me, I mean, they tell me my kids
shouldn't be vegan because that's really bad for children. Look
what it's going to do to them. And yet I
can point to many, many, many people, even doctors, who
will show you that children thrive and when they're in
their forties they're fine and so and my son is
an example of that, having never needed medicine. I mean,
(11:28):
it's incredible. And myself, the bone density thing, I know
what you're talking about because there's this body worker man
that I know, and he always says, like, you know
that bone He's always checking the bone density. But really,
if you exercise and put muscles on your body and
strengthen yourself and just continue to eat well. And what
I meet, my eating well is my superhero diet in
(11:50):
the kind diet, and I'm sure it's how you have
your your people eat which is you're making sure that
you're having beans, you know, twice a day or tempe
or tofu whatever reform. But you're getting full protein in
your body, and you're having whole grains, not in the form.
You're not having white bread sandwiches. You're having keenoa and
brown rice, and you're eating seaweed, which gives you minerals.
(12:11):
You want minerals and calcium, and you're getting that from
your sesame seeds and your tahini and your You want
your grains, your beans and your greens. And if I'm
getting that, then I know I'm getting every mineral I need,
so I'm not lacking in anything. But you're absolutely correct
that most people don't know how to eat it all anyway,
and they're just like you know, they might go vegan
(12:32):
and just eat veggie burgers every single day. Now, if
they were eating hog and DAWs and regular burgers, I'd
still pick that diet over the other one they had personally,
So I hear you that we have to be very
careful with our diets for everyone. But I don't single
out I don't personally single out vegans is the issue.
It's it's just good food is the issue. For everyone.
In my opinion, I think you're absolutely right. I read
(12:56):
all the clinical research I see it. I read technical
journals for forty three years, five days a week from
five thirty to six thirty before I trained for an
hour and a half irrespective of athletes or whatever. And
I can tell you the clinical research is there. If
you're doing it the right way, and you've outlined the
right way, it will work extremely well for you through
(13:18):
the rest of your life. But the key is you
have to be like Alicia or you have to be
that dedicated. And you see, there's something called commitment and contribution.
You have to be committed, and Kevin is committed because
of his life challenge, and in your case, you made
a commitment to do that. So I agree with you completely.
(13:41):
That's true. I never would have chosen to go vegan
without the heart attack instigating it. So you know, I'll
meet a lot of people who I'm like, go vegan
and work for me. Whenever people like are like you,
what happened here? You lost a lot of weight, I'm
like the simple answers. I went vegan, and you know,
you get a lot of people gone like, wow, I
like meat too much and stuff like that, and I'm like, here,
(14:04):
this is what it did for me. I'm not selling
it to you. But we're Americans, and it's all about
obscene amount of choice. Um, you walk into an American
grocery store versus like a British grocery store four times
as large. Even the cereal aisle alone, the cold cereal
aisle is just like massive. It's all about choice because
(14:25):
food is the only true joy that most people have
left in this world. That's free. And it costs money
to eat. We know that, but places make it incredibly
cheap because you know, shy of you know, doing drugs.
Having a cup of coffee or eating a good meal
or even a crappy meal feels good. You know, the
endorphins get released. We feel satiety. It's a good feeling.
(14:48):
And Americans, and I I was, I'm one and I
continue to be one, and it's baked into my DNA.
We don't eat to fuel the body. We eat to entertain,
We eat to please ourselves. We eat as reward. I
had such a great day, I'm gonna I deserve this food.
I had to relearn it is not that food is
not entertainment. Food is not joy. Um, when you make
(15:11):
it that, then it becomes a destination. And I had
to learn that food was not my destination. Food was
just something that I have to do along the way
to fuel the body. And you know, I became an
intermittent faster, pretty hardcore. Um Like, basically, I'm already on
a like eighteen six diet every day in terms of
(15:32):
like the hours that I owe these six hour eating window,
and I generally increase that to a twenty and four
our eating window, and then I'll go for like three
or four day fast it's sometimes seven where it's just
water and no intake whatsoever, because I still have a
lot of Stewart energy. And I'll tell you right now,
(15:53):
like post heart attack, I was very vigilant about like
this is gonna keep me alive. But as we know,
in vegan world, they got bad food for you as well.
Just because it vegan doesn't mean it's necessarily good for you.
I mean, let's sugar. I wish sugar wasn't vegan. It is,
and so it's in everything, you know, mostly, so I
had to kind of re learn to like eat like
(16:14):
this isn't about having a good time. And then you know,
you'll do good over a long period of time and
then backslide into bad behaviors lately, Like I had a
dog that was passing away before the end of the year,
rescue dog that we've had for six years, and we
all loved her, and it was a real convalescent period. Man.
I was like, for four months straight, I spend an
(16:35):
inordinate amount of time staring at this dog's asshole because
she couldn't get up to go to the bathroom. So
I was constantly on dog duty and whatnot. And during
that time, I grief eight. I ate all my grief.
I hate my feelings and stuff like that. And I
didn't think about like you had a heart attack now,
mind you. I didn't slip. I didn't go non vegan.
But they got vegan ice cream and just because it's
(16:56):
made of cash, he's don't make it any better for you.
They got vegan cheese just because may of you know,
a plant doesn't mean it's not fatty. There's still fat
in a vegan diet. And so I started grief eeding.
Then I started after the dog passed away to make
myself feel better entertainment eating where it's like, let me
find my favorite show PLoP down in front of the TV.
(17:17):
It's two hours long, and I'm gonna feed the entire time.
And you know that that way lies ruined. Man. So
even if you are vegan, if you're living strictly plant based,
consuming that many calories, that much of anything, particularly in
a in a sustained period of like non motility, is
just bad for the body. So for the last two
(17:37):
weeks now, I've been hike and running in every day,
doing the four mile that I used to do all
the time and whatnot. And now I've been um kind
of bringing my diet back in in a sensible way.
I let bread slip back in. You know, when you
mentioned gluten, I was like, I wish I was. I mean,
some people have Siliac would be like, never wish this
on yourself. But if I had, if I couldn't eat gluten,
(17:58):
that'd be better for me. Unfortunately, only you know I can.
It doesn't affect me other than just makes me happy.
And so I have to like keep an eye on
the prize, which is like food sustained you. It's not
meant to entertain you, it's not meant to reward you,
it's not meant to feel good. It's not meant to
take the place of a positive feeling. It's literally meant
(18:20):
to just give you the energy you need so that
your body can move thank do what you need to
do until you get to the next meal. Man. And
so it's it's not one could go vegan, but there's
behaviors that you have to like drop that are baked
in as as an American man. They make it so
easy to eat in this country and so cheap. But
(18:40):
none of the food is very good for you. Man,
it's just reachable. It's just there. I want to say
that I agree with you guys, and that I know
how to do. I know that I can. I'm a
foodie me too, and so I do allow myself to
be a foodie still. And I have made it so
that when I make bok CHOI drizzled with lemon and
(19:01):
flax seed oil and umaboshi plum and some toasted seeds,
it is quite delicious. Like it's just as delicious. And
I think your tongue has to change, you know, when
we're used to eating so much sugar and all that
dairy and all that salt, your body doesn't even know.
Your tongue is numb. So that when you do a
little fast or you do a little cleanse, or you've
(19:22):
started eating really clean, if you've been eating really you know,
whole grains and seaweeds, more macro. When you eat that way,
you know, like if you fast for a few days
and you have a raspberry, it's orgasmic. You're like, this
is the most incredible taste. But if you're just eating
sugar all the time, then you're not going to appreciate
that raspberry. I think you're right that you have to
change the mentality and you can't be looking for food
(19:44):
to do that. And you have to accept that food
is really specifically to make your life work. And you
want to feel good and you want to be able
to walk to the bathroom or have sex with your
wife or do whatever the things are that you want
to be able to do, and you're not gonna be
able to do them as well if you're filled with
all kinds of junk. I wanted to ask you, Kevin
(20:17):
about your wife Jen how she, long before you thought
of any of this, had the idea that you guys,
that your daughter shouldn't drink milk. This wasn't a time
when it was like it was the milk Doesn't Body
good campaign. I mean, it was like radical taboo that
you were Why did she think this? And and then
(20:39):
it's so interesting to me that your wife and your
daughter were so ahead of you with this, and then
it took it took you almost dying to get it.
Why wouldn't you listen to these brilliant women beforehand explain yourself?
They they you know, they were health nicks as far
as I was concerned, which was weird because the kid
wasn't you know, growing up the kid looked more like
(20:59):
me and not. And then as she got into like
her like early teens, uh, like Jen's jeans kind of
kicked in and stuff. So for me, like I remember
Jen early on, like as soon as the kid was
born was well, she breastfed the kid up until you know,
(21:20):
she couldn't anymore. And then after that, I assumed the
kid would drink milk, like I drank milk and everyone
in my family drank milk. And she was like, I'm
not gonna give her milk. I was like, what are
you gonna give her? She's like soy, And I was like,
a kid needs a milk. She's like, no, she doesn't like,
especially don't need an animal's milk. Kid needed my milk.
She got it, She's done. You're not supposed to be
(21:40):
given a human being like animals milk somebody else. You know,
years before my kid would quote me, not your mom,
not your milk. Jennifer was essentially saying the same thing.
She was like, why would I give my kid like
milk from some animal, Like you know, I'm gonna give
her soy. So the kid never drank milk or entire
of life growing up, So that was one less thing
(22:02):
she had to throw off when when she went vegan. Jennifer,
I remember earlier in our relationship, like probably after the
kid was born, she suddenly turned off to meat. I
think she might have seen a documentary, but she was
just like, you know, because she used to eat chicken
and hamburgers and and bacon. She wasn't a huge like
meat person, but you know, the average amount in her
(22:25):
in her American diet. And then she pulled it all out.
She was like, I'm not eating animals. And then she
had a kind of on again off again relationship with eggs,
you know, where she was like I'll eat white, and
then she was like I'm not eating any of it,
but you know, cheese, she wouldn't leave behind. That was
the one thing. So that's what kept her as a vegetarian.
So she was vegetarian long before the kid went vegan,
(22:48):
which means long before I went vegan, and was kind
of the example. And when the kid went vegan, she
did cite Jennifer. She was like, mom, my whole life
has not been eating meat, and here I am like
eating meat and we all get together on Thanksgiving here
in the house, we all eat meat. Mom doesn't like,
I'm gonna be like that. So yeah, the wife was
the example. But the example that never set in for me.
(23:11):
My wife is incredibly thin, has always been thinner than me.
So I was like, well, there it is. The lesson
is you know, you live like that and you look
like that. But I assumed it was too late. I
never figured i'd make a life change, you know that
big go vegan, drop that much weight and stuff that
that came along with fear, you know, and and so
so many people ask me about like like what did
(23:33):
you do? And I was like I got scared, Like
you need to get scared, man, You need to scare
people sometimes because it's so easy to forget. Like for
years I was very very heavy, and you know, people
would they stopped calling me like fat, and they just
start calling you big guy, hey, big guy, and like
I was like, I am the big guy and I
(23:53):
am in charge here, and you forget that big guys
like a double entendre as well. And some people just
don't to hurt your feelings so they say nothing. So
you know, in in going plant based, when the weight
it fell off, then you hear a lot of people
go like, oh man, you look great, and you're like, well,
thank you. Why didn't you intervene sooner? But I would
never have heard them. Everyone in the world could have
(24:15):
sat me down. Affleck himself could have been like, I
will work out with you and put you on my
exact diet. You will look like me, except shorter and
not as pretty. And I would never have heard that.
I wasn't ready to receive it until my back was
against the wall. So you know, you you want people
to not be in that position, but sometimes that's all
it's gonna take. That's the only thing that will make
(24:38):
them make that leath sort of healthier lifestyle. Because this
country makes it so easy to live a very unhealthy
lifestyle while still believing that you're eating three squares a
day and stuff. Alicia, there's one thing Kevin made me
think about. It's a little different. I agree with him
on the milk, I haven't had it in years, but
there's something that I think might I don't want to
(24:59):
use the word say all, but might help to convince.
From a female perspective, you're you're you're you're in your
mid forties. One of the important things is reducing the
risk of breast cancer, and diet can play a significant role.
It has a lot to do with the ratio of
two to sixteen estradial and estra dial is wanted three
hormones in the female system, beside progesterone and testosterone. By
(25:23):
getting in the cruciferous vegetable which are resistant starch vegetables
that would be broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, all of those vegetables,
a woman can begin to normalize the crew to sixteen ratio,
and when that ratio gets too far out with the sixteen,
the woman's risk for breast cancer goes up. So the
(25:44):
diet can have a significant effect. On the man's side,
we're at risk of prostate cancer. Chances are those of
us that don't get that. If we're lucky enough not
to get it, we may die with it, but not
because of it. And by getting in the same type
of vegetables we will be able to reduce the issue
(26:09):
with benign prostate enlargement because in a in a man,
the die indole methane in broccoli and cabbage and the
sulforaphane in broccoli will actually reduce the risk of prostate
cancer for a man. And you can pick up your calcium.
Broccoli is one of the highest amounts of it. Forget
(26:31):
about the milk uh and fortified foods, but you can
pick that up. So the cruciferous vegetables are stars for
women in breast cancer and men with frenstion of prostate
enlargement and cancer. Mackie, why do you think so Kevin
is explaining that he's incredibly stubborn and that he would
(26:53):
not there was no nothing, even probably you telling him
that information prior to having his heart attack. He wouldn't
have heard it, right, So do you think there are
a bunch of people out there who can hear it
and can like what does it take for someone to
go I do want to feel good. I do want
(27:13):
to live my best life. I actually would like to
be able to sleep well. I would like to not
have headaches. I would not like to take medication for things.
I would like to have the life that I was
given by this magnificent experience of life. Do you think
that there are more people like Kevin who have to
be hit by a truck to get it or you know?
(27:35):
Or are there a lot of people who can find
this healing in a more gentle way? What do you think? Well,
I tell you want to know. I think COVID has
been a game changer right now what people have not done.
The thing I tell people is the title of the
book that you can give away to your of your
audience on my website's called stop renting your Health. And
right now people are renting their health. And when your
(27:56):
health owns you, that's when you're in trouble. But if
you can take ownership of your health. For instance, on
UM you asked the question I will ask someone. Did
you plan more for your wedding than you did for
your marriage? Do you have a warranty on your car
but not on your body? Do you take care of
your pet better than you take care of yourself. But
(28:17):
right now COVID has changed things. I have seen people
so afraid and are doing things to get back their immunity.
And with age we get something called imman no senescence.
Immano senescence says on the Starship Enterprise. When the Klingons
are shooting at us and our four shields are up,
(28:40):
it's protecting us. But when the four shields are up,
we cannot fire out. Well, what's happening is with age,
our four shields are coming down and we're taking too
many hits. So you have to do everything to reduce
inflammation and build your own adaptive immunity. And if you
can do that, you will take ownership of your health
(29:02):
and you will have a higher quality of life. And
Alicia Kevin, we can only save those that want to
be saved. True that it's it's yeah, you can't force
feed this to anybody pun intended. It's uh. It's a
choice that people make, not not just going plant based,
but choosing a healthier lifestyle. And and to be fair,
(29:25):
you know some people would love to do it, but
don't have the means, don't have the time. Um, there's
a myth about like, being vegan is so expensive, not necessarily,
particularly if you're cooking at home. So don't let cost
be something that kind of keeps you from looking for
better health. Uh time, Unfortunately, nobody can give you more
(29:48):
of that, So it does require, like you know, if
you want to eat healthier, don't ever eat out, don't
eat food to others. Prepare and stuff. But that means
you've got to make the time to prepare the food
you're up. In the long run, it works out. I mean,
I've got based on my job, I got a nordin
amount of free time. But lately I've started preparing my
own food. I was eating off of Postmates, it was
(30:10):
all vegan joints, but I've kind of put that to
the side and I've just been making hummus and and
beans constantly. Um, I've learned how to make hummus, and
I broke the shackles of a big corporate hummus from
my wrists so I can make my own hummus. I'm no,
I don't have to work for Somber anymore. Now I've
worked for CAD. I make my own damn hummus. And
(30:33):
like that sess to me. You know, the teeny stuff
was something I didn't even realize was so good for you,
like my you know. I started reading the back of
the jar and then I started looking up online and
I was like, there's all sorts of healthy stuff in here.
I want to thank you both so much for this conversation. Mackie,
I really really appreciate your knowledge of the human body
(30:55):
and also the disease that that is taking people over
and how much you know about that and how to
conquer it. And I really enjoyed hearing all about that.
And I love hearing all of your stories. And Kevin,
of course, you are I have so much love for you,
and I just love hearing you tell your story of
what happened to you and um, both of you have
(31:18):
been incredible to talk to. I'm really grateful. This was
a delightful conversation and I enjoyed it. I hope other
people will enjoy it. And thank you for coming and
talking to me. Well, Licia, thank you very much. You're
you're You're very kind to single me out, and Kevin
to get to know you and hear your story a commitment.
You don't hear a lot of that, and I've seen
(31:40):
enough knowing what isn't commitment. So I'm I'm honored to
have really had shared some moments with God bless you both,
and I wish only the best and keep up what
you're doing and stay strong, Mackie, do your dad proud.
Like we said before, you're fascinating man. Thank you for
sharing your story with us, and you give me hope that, uh,
(32:00):
you know, when I reach an age where the rest
of the darkness falls out of my beard and it
all goes as white as that hair, that maybe I
could still be above ground. Man, I'm gonna take a
page out of your book. Um, you, Alicia, have just
devoted your life to raising a human being, to making
(32:20):
a strong, smart human being like anybody can have a kid.
You're you're taking parenting to another place. It's so insanely admirable,
especially having raised a kid myself and knows what goes
into it. You're doing way better than I ever did,
and my kid turned out okay. But you are so
(32:41):
incredibly hands on like I. Whenever I read about your
relationship with him, it just makes me go like I
wish I could go back in time and do better
with my kid. Um, hats off man, Like we all
get to accomplish things in life, and sometimes, particularly in
our business, we forget that nothing is more important than
(33:01):
like what we're here to do, which is like, here's
another human being, and you've set up this little human
being for life. So well man, And what a beautiful
relationship you guys got. Alicia, thank you for having me
on for chit chat, for always leading, always being an example,
taking the hits when people didn't understand, when people like you, know,
like you said, man, people going like, let's do ten
(33:22):
minutes of vegan jokes because it's so wacky, people like
you and specifically you help normalize it for people like
me to jump into it years later. So thank you.
Thanks for having me up. Thank you so much, both
of you. To dig deeper into this episodes topic and resources,
(33:44):
visit The kind Life dot com. The Real Hell is
an I Heart Radio production made in partnership with Frequency Media.
I'm your host. Alicia Silverstone from I Heart Radio. Are
managing producer is Lindsay Offfman from Frequency Media. Michelle Corey
is our executive producer. Jordan's Rizzieri is our producer, and
(34:07):
Monty Leonard and Laura Boyman are our associate producers. Sydney
Evans is our dialogue editor and Claire bit Of Gary
Curtis is our mixer and sound designer. This podcast is
available on the I Heart Radio app, Spotify, Apple podcasts,
Google Podcasts, and wherever podcasts are found.
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