The Real Killer Season 3: Ep. 8, What About Bob?

Byron's legal team uncovers two alternative suspects with unexplained behaviors. One, a close family friend Patrick, mysteriously changed his phone number immediately after Anastasia’s murder and the other, closer to home: her own father. Why was Bob WitbolsFeugen found at the exact location where his daughter was murdered before police had told him where her body was? Did Bob and Patrick have the means, motive or opportunity to murder Anastasia?

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
A warning.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
This episode contains depictions of violence and conversations about suicide
that may be disturbing and triggering for some listeners. If
you are struggling with suicidal thoughts, please fast forward to
the end of this episode to find out where help
is available.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Who was Byron's alibi?

Speaker 3 (00:24):
Kelly Moffitt is his alibi, Debbie Moffatt is his alibi.
Bram Nisley is his alibi. Tara McDowell is his alibi.
Evlyn Case's mom is his alibi.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Byron Case's attorney, Brian Russell, is naming all of the
people who he says can verify Byron's whereabouts after Anastasia
supposedly got out of Justin's car at Truman Road and
the I four thirty.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
Five, so Don Rand is an alibi witness, the two
undisclosed witnesses at the other gas station are his alibi witnesses,
and there his alibi be because Anastasia was alive when
she got out of that car at Truman Rode in
I four thirty five, he was somewhere else the entire

(01:11):
rest of the night and has people to place him
somewhere else the entire rest of the night. If she
got out of the car. Byron didn't do it.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
I'm Leah Rothman, this is the real killer. Episode eight?
What about Bob, Anastasia, Justin, Byron, and Kelly go out
that fateful night, Anastasia ends up dead. Justin commits suicide.

(01:52):
That leaves just Kelly and Byron. If we rule out
a stranger killing, which was what Byron's did, defense attorney
offered up as a possibility a trial, what makes the
most sense that Byron or someone else did it? Attorney
Brian Russell says he and the team believe they have

(02:13):
uncovered some information that could point to the someone else.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
The other thing about Byron's case that really made me
go I don't think Byron did it is when I
was reading a report from Deputy Eperson that he wrote
the day after Anastasia was found. And this is a
four page handwritten report, which police don't usually take the

(02:39):
time to do a four page handwritten report unless it's
something important.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Remember, Deputy David Epperson is the first person to find
Anastasia's body at Lincoln Cemetery at three forty four am
on October twenty third, nineteen ninety seven. The next day,
he comes into contact with Anastasia's dad, Bob Whitbule's Fugen,
and he writes a report about it.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
Deputy Eperson records an interaction that he had with Bob
Whipple's Fugen where at a different cemetery, a cemetery called
Highland Cemetery, and mister Whipples Fugen shows up there and
says sees them and says, oh, I'm looking for Lincoln Cemetery.
I'm the father of the victim that was found there.

(03:25):
I just want to be close to where she was found,
which makes sense if you're a grieving father. But he
keeps asking Eperson if the crime scene looked like it
was tampered with, can you show me where a body
was found so I can be close to it. Eperson
politely tells him, well, I can't share that information with you,
but you should talk to the detectives if you want

(03:46):
that information. He says, can you tell me where Lincoln
Cemetery is. I've never been to Lincoln Cemetery before you.
So Epperson gives mister Whipples Fugen directions to Lincoln Cemetery
and then he uh follows him there a couple minutes later,
and when Eperson finds mister Whipples Fugen and Lincoln Cemetery.

(04:07):
He finds mister Whipples Fugen standing in the exact spot
where Eperson found Anastasia's body without anyone telling him where
her body was. And it was in that moment there
I was just like, well, Byron didn't do this.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
I'm going to read from some of the report Deputy
Eperson wrote on October twenty fourth, at seven am, the
day after Anastasia was found murdered. He writes that he
and two other deputies were sitting at the entrance to
Highland Cemetery. Yes, there's a third cemetery in the area.

(04:41):
While sitting there, Eperson writes that Bob Whipples Fugen pulled
up in a quote blue four door Chevrolet Corsica with
damage to the front quarter panel on the driver's side.
He writes that Bob approached and said he was quote
the father of the murder victim found in Lincoln Cemetery
and he wanted to know if Highland Cemetery was Lincoln Cemetery.

(05:05):
Bob tells Eperson he's never been to Lincoln Cemetery. Eperson
tells Bob they're not the same, and he gives him
directions there. Bob then requests Eperson take him to the
place where the body of his daughter was found. Eperson
tells him he can't do that and that he should
contact the detective unit for a possible escort. Bob then

(05:28):
starts talking about the events prior to Anastasia's death. Bob
tells Eperson that his daughter had been emotionally disturbed for
the last several months and talked of suicide, but had
never acted on it. He describes his daughter as quote frisky,
and that she would never have been killed without a struggle,

(05:49):
and that she would die before ever letting anyone mess
with her. Bob states that her boyfriend was not violent
and he didn't believe he would kill her. Bob goes
on to tell Eperson that he had last spoken with
the boyfriend the night of October twenty second, around ten pm.
The boyfriend had told Bob he and Anastasia had been arguing.

(06:11):
She got out of the car at the stoplight at
Truman Road and the I four thirty five and began walking.
The boyfriend left her and went home. Epson writes that
mister Whitbeles Fuchen believed quote a stranger had picked her
up and told her that they would go to an
interesting place, a cemetery, and after getting to the cemetery,

(06:33):
the stranger shot her. Eperson notes that mister Whitbles Fugen
kept his composure through the conversation and continued making references
to the crime scene, stating quote, I hope they got
all of the evidence and did not miss something. According
to Epperson, Bob then says he's going to go to
Lincoln Cemetery and probably just quote walk the cemetery with

(06:57):
his hand on the wall, thinking about my daughter. About
two minutes after he leaves, Eperson and the other deputies
decide to go to Lincoln Cemetery to check on Bob's
well being. When they arrive, Eperson writes, quote, upon approaching
the circle drive, I observed mister Whipple's Fugen to be
standing with his hands on his hips, standing directly over

(07:19):
the exact location where I had found Anastasia's body on
ten twenty three, ninety seven. Mister whipples Fugen was looking
at the ground for approximately five seconds before turning around
and seeing me. Eperson goes on to write quote, upon
seeing me, he appeared startled and turned around, walking very

(07:41):
quickly towards my police vehicle with his left hand talked
firmly in his pocket. Mister whipples Fugen approached me and asked, quote,
am I close? Eperson writes, referring to where the body
was found. Eperson details quote I again advised mister whipples
Fugen that he should come intact the detective unit for

(08:01):
specific information, and he spontaneously stated, what are you guys
doing following me? I'm not the bad guy. You guys
should be out looking for the bad guy exclamation point.
Here's Sean O'Brien, one of Byron's attorneys, you.

Speaker 4 (08:17):
Know, and this is like the day after all of
the you know, activity around the crime scene. The crime
scene tape is down, all that's been removed, but he's
right there on the exact spot, and so, you know,
that's really suspicious, and nobody.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
Here's Byron's attorney, Nicole Gordon. It's clear, and that report
that Eperson is suspicious Abob should have been you know,
fertile ground for kil Gore, but it just wasn't. Although
Eperson and one other deputy write reports about this interaction
with Bob, it seems Sergeant Gary Kilgore does nothing with it, okay,

(08:58):
let's first talk about Bob's Remember at the scene, investigators
discovered paint chips and broken glass on a tree not
far from where Anastasia's body was found. Here's Sean again.

Speaker 4 (09:12):
Epperson notes in his report that he saw Bob's car
had damage to the front quarter panel, so he made
a note of that, of course he's aware of. He
also worked the crime scene.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
Any broken glass on Bob's.

Speaker 4 (09:28):
He didn't make a note of broken glass, about headlight
glass or anything, so that we don't know, and nobody
ever followed up the paint chips that were on the tree.
Those have been lost we were looking for.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
Here's investigator Quinn O'Brien, also on Byron's team.

Speaker 5 (09:43):
He's at the scene. The deputies who picked up the
paint chips in the autoglass said that the damage to
the tree looked fresh because everything was on top of
the grass, and you know, the paint was still on
the tree.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
Were there any reports that noted what the paint chips were.

Speaker 5 (10:02):
We were trying to find that for some reason. I
want to say that it's blue, but I don't know.
I know that they excluded Justin's car as having contributed
to the paint ships.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
Justin's car was processed inside and out. I'm going to
read from the report written about that quote. A scrape
was present on the front passenger bumper. It was related
that this scrape occurred before this homicide. A light coating
of soil was present on the tires. This coating was
too light for collection. No accumulation of soil was observed

(10:38):
in any of the wheel wells. No obvious blood was
observed on the inside or outside of this vehicle. Luminol
was sprayed on the interior of this vehicle. No significant
activity with the luminol was observed indicative of the absence
of blood. It's noted that Sergeant Kilgore presented photographs of
tire tracks at the scene. They were compared to the

(11:00):
tires on Justin's vehicle.

Speaker 6 (11:03):
Quote.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
The tires on this vehicle did not match the tracks
in the photographs. When it comes to Byron's car, I
don't have any documentation that says it was processed and
or rolled out. Remember, there are conflicting reports of where
his car was that night. It might have been in
a shop, or it might have been parked at his mom's.

(11:24):
But because Bob took photos of Byron's car. I can
tell you it was white and it had a big
dent in the front bumper, no broken headlight glass. Though
you can see photos of Byron's car on the Real
Killer Podcast Instagram page, Bob's car was never examined. Okay,

(11:45):
going back to Deputy Eperson's report, because Bob has more
to say that day. Bob tells Eperson at eleven thirty
the night of October twenty second, while he was out
looking for Anastasia, he stopped at the gates of Mount
Washington Cemetery. Remember that's where Anastasia was dropped off to

(12:05):
meet Justin. Bob tells Eperson that the gate was locked,
and he pondered for a moment, hopping the fence to
go into the cemetery to search for his daughter because
he quote, since she was in real danger at that time.
Bob says he heard a loud gunshot, possibly from a
large caliber rifle, and he immediately turned in the direction

(12:28):
of the Cimarron apartments, believing the noise came from that direction.
Eperson writes, quote mister Whipplesfugen stated at that time he
clapped his hands together and yelled boom, there goes the neighborhood.
Mister Whipplesfugen then stated, at that time, I knew my
daughter was dead. Bob tells Eperson that he then began

(12:53):
driving back and forth on Truman Road searching for his daughter,
but never checked cemetery. Epperson continues to write, quote, I
observed mister Whipplesfugen's demeanor to change when he began talking
about the gunshot and described his actions upon hearing the gunshot.

(13:15):
He appeared to switch from grieving parent to excite it
and colorful describing in detail his emotion upon hearing the gunshot.
Here's Brian again about it.

Speaker 3 (13:27):
He talks about hearing a gunshot and thinking I just
knew my daughter was dead at that point, and the
Cimarron apartments.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
He mentions the Cimarron.

Speaker 3 (13:37):
Correct, he doesn't mention Lincoln Cemetery, but if you put so,
he was when he claims that when he heard this
thing that sounded like a gun shot, he was at
the south gate to Mount Washington Cemetery and he heard
it coming from the direction of the Cimarin apartments. So
you know, when you look at it on a map
kind of you know, if he heard a gunshot from

(13:58):
that direction. Lincoln said pemetary is fair game, and hearing that.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
I put a map of the area on the Real
Killer podcast on Instagram so you can see where Mount
Washington Cemetery is in relation to Lincoln Cemetery and the
Cimarron apartments. So Bob says, in that moment he hears
the gunshot, he feels he just heard the shot that
killed his daughter Anastasia. But that's at eleven thirty pm.

(14:27):
Kelly says Byron killed Anastasia sometime before nine PM, which
seems to check out because Kelly is home in time
for her curfew around nine nine thirty. Unfortunately, we don't
know Anastasia's time of death. I reach out to doctor
Thomas Young, the medical examiner who conducted the autopsy. First

(14:47):
he declines to be interviewed. Then I write him again
and ask if there's any way to determine even a
window of time for Anastasia's death.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
He writes back, quote.

Speaker 2 (14:58):
Time of death to terminations only work in detective fiction.
But I have a follow up question for doctor Young
because in his autopsy report he said that Anastasia's corneas
were clear, So I write asking him if her clear
corneas can tell us anything about the time of death.

(15:19):
Doctor Young never responds to that question. In my very
simple Google search of this, I find articles, including one
from the National Institutes of Health that says within two
to three hours after someone dies, the corneas start to
get cloudy. If the eyes are open, the clouding happens

(15:40):
much faster than if the eyes are closed. Based on
the crime scene photos, Anastasia's left eye was open, her
right eye was closed. So if Anastasia's corneas were clear
when the autopsy was performed, which was around nine thirty am,
then what does that mean in terms of when she

(16:01):
was killed. Could Bob have heard the shot that killed
Anastasia at eleven thirty pm or did she die sometime
before nine pm? When Bob says that he hears a gunshot,
does he go toward it?

Speaker 3 (16:17):
I believe he says he drove up and down Truman
Road after hearing that, which means he would have driven
past one of the entrances to Lincoln Cemetery, the very
entrance that Kelly later says they used to go into
Lincoln Cemetery. But mister Whippleschugen says of a you know

(16:38):
everywhere I went last night. I went everywhere but Lincoln Cemetery.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
Basically, Bob says he has an alibi right that he
gets off work at six o'clock and goes to John
Fisher's house. Bob told Sergeant Kilgore after work on the
twenty second, he stopped off at his friend John Fisher's
house for a meeting because he was supposed to run

(17:01):
as a team member in a marathon in Kansas City.
How closely did investigators look into Bob's alibi.

Speaker 6 (17:10):
They didn't. There's no report of them interviewing John Fisher.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
I reach out to who I believe is the correct
John Fisher, but have yet to hear back.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
Here's Quinn.

Speaker 5 (17:23):
It has always bothered me and a lot of other
people that Bob Whitbolsphugen places himself everywhere that night except
exactly where Anastasia's body was found. It also bothered Deputy
Eperson enough that Bob was found exactly in the spot
where his daughter's body was lying the next day before

(17:46):
anyone had told him that's where Anastasia's body was. He
thought that was suspicious. I agree. Also when they ask
Bob if he keeps guns in the house or if
he has guns. He says, I don't keep guns in
the house. The next question the deputy should have asked
him was, Okay, where do you keep your guns?

Speaker 2 (18:08):
Because so I reach out to Bob via email and
he agrees to be interviewed. You should know that he
is currently in prison. I'll tell you why he's there
very soon. When we speak, Bob makes it clear he
doesn't want to talk so much about the investigation. He
really wants to keep the conversation to talking only about

(18:29):
Anastasia's life, death, and Byron's guilt. I record four calls
with him, some of which you've heard in episodes one
and two, but the connection isn't great. So I ask
if we can do a proper interview arranged by the prison,
where he can be in a quiet room on a
phone line with a cleaner connection. Bob says yes. Then

(18:51):
I write again, trying to nail down a day and time.
He offers up some options, but then also says he
no longer sees the need to talk with me. I
reach out to him a few more times, he stops
responding altogether. Obviously, I have one thousand questions for Bob.
Among them, I'd like to know what he thinks about

(19:12):
Deputy Eperson's report, and I'd like to know more about
the investigation he was conducting at the same time Kilgore
was conducting his. I hope we will be able to
connect again sometime soon.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
Here's Nicole again.

Speaker 7 (19:30):
Bob inserts himself and the investigation pretty early. I cannot
pretend to know what his motive was or why he
did that. It could be a number of reasons. He
could be trying to attaint the investigation. He could have
a personality disturbance that would cause him to do something

(19:51):
like this, or he could want the attention. Or he
could be a grieving father, or he could be a
grieving father, or he could be a suspect. You know,
there's a handful of reasons why someone would involve themselves
so heavily and an investigation, and I really don't know why.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
Here's Sean.

Speaker 4 (20:14):
Yeah, I'm not going to judge a man who just
lost his daughter. If something happened to either of my daughters,
I would probably be involved in trying to figure out
what happened. I would want answers. I don't fault them
with it all, but I don't think I would be
as weird as Bob in going about it and distrusting

(20:37):
and paranoid about the detectives and their motives, you know.
But he does have some legitimate beefs about the quality
of this investigation.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
And there is something interesting that happens in the course
of the investigation between Bob and Kelly. We mentioned this
briefly in episode five. Here's Nicole.

Speaker 7 (20:58):
Kelly reached out to Bob up through email and let
him know that she was sorry for what had happened.
Her story was the same, I mean, at this point,
according to her, Anastesia got out of the car. Everyone's
story is a line, and she just wants to tell
Bob that she's sorry for what happened.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
And she asked me, I'm going to read you.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
Kelly's email dated May twelfth, nineteen ninety eight. This is
roughly seven months after Anastasia's murder. Kelly writes, quote, dear
mister Whipples Fugen, I don't even know how to begin this.
I'm Kelly Moffatt, Byron's girlfriend. I just wanted to talk
to you about everything that has gone on. No one

(21:41):
else in my life knew Anastasia and Justin or they
don't want to talk about it. I have blocked everything
out for some time. I pretty much severed all ties
with that part of my life. I guess I was
hoping it was all a bad dream that I would
wake up from. I know now that I won't wake up,
and I need to talk to someone. I miss Anastasia

(22:02):
and Justin so much. I'm not going to try and
pretend that Anastasia and I were best friends. But I
liked her and we had fun together before her death.
I got to see what Anastasia was like on her own.
We would have girl talk on the phone and whine
about our boyfriends. She was always sarcastic and witty. I

(22:23):
think we could have been great friends. For the first time,
I feel I have really mourned her loss and am
now realizing that she is gone. It hurts a lot,
and I feel that I'm grieving alone. Byron has a
tendency to block things out. He has hardly ever spoken
of his loss of Justin, Anastasia, and his father. When

(22:45):
I bring it up, he grows quiet and upset or
ignores it. He is dealing with things in a very
unhealthy manner. But I can't make him see it. I
would appreciate it if we could get together and talk.
It would mean a lot to me if we can
swap stories and help each other through this. Sincerely, Kelly,

(23:06):
and then they continue talking right right.

Speaker 7 (23:09):
There's an exchange between she and Bob that goes on
for a couple of months. At one point they talk
about an arrangement to meet, and Bob says that he
thinks it's best for them to meet in a quiet
place that he is hard of hearing, but that he
would let Kelly decide. Does anything come of we don't know,

(23:29):
not through email, it doesn't.

Speaker 6 (23:31):
We don't know if they ever met.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
The team says, once again, it's the timeline that raises
some questions, specifically how Bob and Kelly talking might relate
to Sergeant Kilgore's letter to Bob in August of nineteen
ninety eight. Remember, kil Gore wrote basically, a stop harassing
me and don't come to me if you don't have
something new and viable.

Speaker 1 (23:55):
Letter. Here's Sean again.

Speaker 4 (23:58):
Now there is a place where Sergeant Kilgore in his
letter saying listen, I've had enough for you.

Speaker 8 (24:06):
You know.

Speaker 4 (24:07):
That's the tone of the of the letter that he
sends kill Gore says, we have exhausted our leads in
this case. We don't have anywhere else to go. I mean,
if you have something, bring it to us. And of
course it's after that that Kelly then changes her story,
and you know, by her own statement in that conversation

(24:30):
that was recorded between her and Byron, says, Anastagia's creepy
dad has been calling and emailing me and bugging me about.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
This, you know.

Speaker 4 (24:39):
So I think it's huge that he was involved in
this investigation.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
So here are the dates surrounding all of these events.
It seems Kelly's first email to Bob is on May twelfth,
nineteen ninety eight. The few emails go through May, she
writes again in early July. What happens after that?

Speaker 1 (25:00):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
By the way, Kelly may have written Bob and wanted
to quote swap stories for a purely innocent reason because
she was hurting and simply needed to connect with someone
who was also grieving. Okay, back to the timeline, kil
Gore writes that stop harassing me letter to Bob on
August twenty first, nineteen ninety eight. The next day, on

(25:26):
August twenty second, Kelly meets with Kilgore and tells him
she thinks Byron is acting weird and he might know
more than he's saying, but she doesn't think it's a
murder type of thing. Kelly doesn't completely change her story
until two years later, on September nineteenth, two thousand and

(25:46):
she says that comment about Anastasia's creepy dad to Byron
in that June fifth, two thousand and one recorded phone call.
So did Kelly and Bob ever talk or meet up?
Is the reason she started to change her story connected
to Bob? Or Is it because she was a traumatized

(26:07):
teenage girl and the truth was starting to eat her alive.
Earlier this episode, we talked about the report Deputy David
Epperson wrote about seeing Anastasia's dad, Bob Whitblesfugen, standing at

(26:31):
the exact spot where her body was found in Lincoln
Cemetery the day before, well on October twenty second, nineteen
ninety eight, one year to the day Anastasia was killed.
Bob is back at Lincoln Cemetery, here's Attorney Nicole Gordon,
and Eperson.

Speaker 7 (26:51):
Is there's just strange and so Epson describes his encounter
with him and says that he's driving a different car.
He notes that Bob's you know, so he's taking Bob in.
He's suspicious of Bob the entire.

Speaker 6 (27:05):
Time, and I can't recall.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
Here's some of Eperson's four and a half page handwritten
report from that encounter. Eperson writes that it's nine fifty
five pm on October twenty second, nineteen ninety eight when
he first sees Bob, who was sitting in his car
near Lincoln's Cemetery with his engine and lights turned off.
Eperson asks what he was doing, and Bob says just

(27:31):
looking at the downtown skyline. A bit later, Eperson sees
Bob again and he decides to follow him. He locates
Bob at the south gate of Mount Washington Cemetery. Eperson writes, quote,
upon contacting mister Whipple's Fugen, he appeared nervous. Bob goes

(27:51):
on to talk about the caravan of cars and how
investigators haven't followed up on how he obtained some secondhand
information about the knight Anastasia was killed. Quote four parties
had been riding around with a loaded gun and that
the victim had been shot accidentally. Eperson goes on to write,

(28:11):
I'm not sure whether he speculated at this point, but
he went on to say after the accidental death, the
victim's boyfriend wanted to call the police, but he was
threatened by another member of the party, so he did not.
The boyfriend then became afraid, so the next day he
went out and bought a gun for his protection. Two
days later, he was found dead in Kansas. Eperson writes, quote,

(28:36):
mister Whipples Fugen stated he believed the boyfriend was murdered.
Bob then goes on to recount the night of October
twenty second, nineteen ninety seven, including hearing the gun shot.
This time, he says it was around midnight. Bob says
he knew it was a large caliber, not a twenty
two caliber, but not a shotgun either because he used

(28:57):
to shoot guns with his grandfather. Bob then starts asking
Eperson questions about the case. Eperson says he is unaware
of any new leads. Eperson writes quote. He then asked
if the crime scene looked like it had been set up.
Eperson tells Bob the crime scene was processed by the
investigative unit and he would have to contact them for

(29:20):
any information. Bob then states that the detective had labeled
him as a suspect, and he stated, quote, I couldn't
have did it. I didn't get off work until nine.
Eperson writes, quote. Mister whitbeles Fugen seemed upset about his
daughter's death, and it should be noted it had been
one year, almost to the hour since the homicide. I

(29:44):
ask Attorney Brian Russell if Deputy Eperson's reports about Bob
in and around Lincoln Cemetery were ever handed over to
Byron's trial attorney.

Speaker 3 (29:55):
That eperson reports were.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (29:58):
I believe hort Lance had the reports before trial.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
So Byron's defense attorney had Eperson's reports but never used
them at trial. I reach out to David Eperson, who
sounds like he's open to talking with me. He asks
me to call him back the following week, and I do.
I try him several times after that, but he hasn't
returned any of my calls. As Byron's legal team dives

(30:28):
deeper into their investigation of Bob, they say it's what
his ex wife, Anastage's mother Betsy Owens, tells Sergeant Kilgore
back on November seventh, nineteen ninety seven. That makes them
take note. Here's Nicole again.

Speaker 6 (30:45):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 7 (30:46):
After Bob and Betsy divorced, Betsy's neighbor approached Betsy and said,
I'm glad the pub doesn't live here anymore.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
Betsy tells Kilgore that her neighbor, who was the grandmother
of the child Betsy used to babysit, came over one
day and told her that Bob had done some inappropriate
things to her grandchild. To protect the identity of this
neighbor and her family, we've edited out their names to begin,
Betsy says the grandmother came to her and told her

(31:18):
that Bob had come to the door nude when this
grandchild was dropped off for babysitting. Betsy continues with.

Speaker 8 (31:25):
Another granddaughter had accused him some hoeffectual sometime. Never I
know whether was reported or whatever. She was just happy
before so getting them out of there. So I always
made sure, what you know, I never let his want
kid go over to his house. He took one of

(31:49):
my kids a couple of years ago over there in
the six weeks she wanted to come home, and I
worked at philspe I rate. I thought itself right if
he did anything that she would be the best thing
you do you know, any him ever sexually I know
who never had sexually suddenly in.

Speaker 9 (32:10):
My kids using on anything ever said? You know she
will give you any indication that it was going on.

Speaker 8 (32:19):
No, So, as far as I know, nothing hands.

Speaker 2 (32:24):
Betsy goes on to talk about one of her other daughters,
who I'm also not going to name. Betsy's particularly hard
to hear during this next part, so I will tell
you verbatim what she says, which is that one of
her daughter's preschool teachers said this daughter quote acted like
a child who had been sexually molested or abused. Betsy

(32:46):
goes on to say, quote, but I don't have any
proof one way or the other. Kilgore asks if Betsy
ever called the police about any of this. Betsy says, yes,
but she gave up calling the police after this war
time when Bob quote beat me up and threw me
out in the rain. Betsy says, police told her she

(33:07):
could leave, but she couldn't take the kids with her
without a court order, so she stayed because she couldn't
leave her kids behind. Kilgore then circles back to the
neighbor grandmother's story asking if the grandmother ever called the
police on Bob.

Speaker 8 (33:24):
From then I understood shouldn't get the place because she
didn't want to hurt play.

Speaker 9 (33:29):
Yeah, what would be Why didn't you say that the
actor did make physical compact.

Speaker 10 (33:35):
With the downtown.

Speaker 8 (33:38):
Possibly can slay or something. I was laying down, rusting,
and I could hear him on the bedroom.

Speaker 11 (33:46):
They were up on a point of video games and
he was up on the top.

Speaker 9 (33:51):
By the.

Speaker 8 (33:54):
Like, and I could hear on that thanky to go
downstairs or basebook to get something. And after a few
minutes a dole this was re quite, I'm gonna get
out for me got up and the little girl had
gone home. And so I didn't think anything. You know,
you know, I want to hear your own she left

(34:15):
Jamie Loft when things that came back up, students or
what so, I don't know what happened, but ever done
anything it scared to girl of a look or she
left them at home and told her her family and died.
And why away do you recall what it was that
she she said? Wether he was exposing in himself to home.

Speaker 7 (34:39):
Or what.

Speaker 8 (34:39):
I'm not sure. I don't know alight, you'd have to
die better. I'm sure they got a better the home.
Sometimes over everything that's happened on a book goes though.
Uh And.

Speaker 10 (34:53):
Do you don't believe he was in one of you
in dating?

Speaker 8 (34:58):
I don't think.

Speaker 10 (34:59):
I don't think she.

Speaker 8 (35:02):
Yeah, I love see and trying something back when she know,
you know, because she you know, suddenly ended up over
a jumping that she didn't want to to go back.

Speaker 11 (35:11):
Kind of relationships she had had with them, with their father.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
She did not want to live back there.

Speaker 8 (35:17):
If she had had felt like she had any other options,
she would have chose her And the way she moved
into justice that she had no place really to go.
And I thought that was surprised that she moved back
after that, you know, why did he didn't add the
place off to go.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
Betsy says things were complicated at her house with her
current husband, who was a recovering drug addict. It got
to the point where Anastasia didn't want to be at
her house either. Betsy goes on to tell Kilgore more
about how Bob had been physically abusive during their marriage.
Betsy says that Bob would beat on her and that

(35:58):
Bob's mother would tell her to keep her mouth shut
or she'll get beaten even harder.

Speaker 10 (36:04):
I mean because of UH getting beat up too many
times that type of thing. Yeah, I wasn't going to
subject to kids too big violent arguments, and and they
were pretty violent, bloodsy physically abusing and dating station.

Speaker 8 (36:25):
As a pit or whatever wance or why is to
get her to Iron left or world or to all
of them, you know, no bruthals. You know, he didn't
realize I don't think the power that he had or whatever.
But I tried to protect the kids as much as
possible too, and eventually got them out of there.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
In one of Anastasia's journal entries, dated March eighteenth, nineteen
ninety seven, about seven months before she was killed, she
writes this about Bob wanting her to get off the phone. Quote,
my dad just started going off on me for speaking logically,
and finally I couldn't take it anymore. The night before,
my dad slapped me twice when I talked back to him.

(37:07):
All I did was tell him to ask me to
turn down the stereo instead of stomping in my room
and doing it. I thought about taking a razor to
my wrist, but then decided I liked my wrists too much.
Back to Betsy and Sergeant Kilgore.

Speaker 9 (37:23):
Would you be shocked or surprised if if I had
been amazing his gildn Im'd be disappointed with the kids.

Speaker 8 (37:31):
That will tell me about the kids that the fall
well educated in school? That rit you or shocked would be.

Speaker 11 (37:40):
Based on what you've sild me to them.

Speaker 8 (37:43):
I don't know, surprisingly shocking, thanking the advocate that higher
degree of emotion. Part of me wonder for where was people?
They have not looked at a for stage. But you
know she's ben being to death.

Speaker 11 (38:01):
I might have thought, you know, he might.

Speaker 8 (38:03):
Have had something to do with him, because he could
get really angry at it.

Speaker 11 (38:08):
But you know, as far as I long, he hasn't
had any.

Speaker 9 (38:13):
Weapons before we were married, or acts to him interest
over the entirety, just because I'd never allow Weathers in
top the drama him.

Speaker 11 (38:28):
I mean, I got a good temper on me and
you know, but what starts coming after me?

Speaker 8 (38:33):
You know our dad I didn't have any Well, we
get back to me.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
So Betsy says a lot during her interview with Kilgore.
She says Bob used to physically abuse her, and although
she doesn't believe Bob was abusing Anastasia or any of
her other daughters. She does wonder where Bob was and
what went on the night he was out searching for Anastasia.
The only thing I'm thinking is why didn't Kilgore ask

(39:01):
Bob about what Betsy said about him? These are some
explosive allegations. Why were they not followed up on?

Speaker 7 (39:10):
Here's Nicole so in that same report, in the interview,
the eleven seven, ninety seven interview with Betsy, she tells
Kilgore that Bob worked at a children's home in Illinois,
which whoa and he was a social worker, and so
looking further into that, there's a lot of issues with

(39:31):
this children's home, and in fact with a lot of
children's home funded by Catholic charities.

Speaker 6 (39:37):
And it was in the paper.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
According to Betsy, she met Bob while he was working
as a social worker at the Covenant Children's Home in Princeton, Illinois,
back in the late seventies. There were some serious issues
while she and Bob were there, which had absolutely nothing
to do with either of them. A counselor pled guilty
to sex assault charges involved two teenage boys. There was

(40:02):
a sixteen year old boy who raped and murdered a
ten year old girl. Betsy actually testified at that trial.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
Bob did not.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
This may be a good time to point out that
Bob didn't testify at Byron's trial either. Why didn't either
the prosecution or the defense call Bob? Did prosecutors view
Bob as a liability to their case? Could some of
his actions have caused reasonable doubt in the minds of
the jurors, or did prosecutors not want to further traumatize

(40:33):
a grieving father. Either way, I find it very strange.
Something Brian Russell finds strange is how Bob handled or
mishandled Anastasia's cries for help, considering he had worked as
a youth counselor Here's Brian, I.

Speaker 3 (40:52):
Found it really interesting in the context of mister Whipple's
fe game, especially because when his daughter keeps talking about
suicide or being depressed, and how he just seems to
have such a flippant attitude about it when he should
know or should have known that, you know, my daughter's
in crisis and needs help, and he just buried his head,

(41:15):
buried his.

Speaker 6 (41:16):
Head in the sand.

Speaker 3 (41:18):
I mean, he also took out a second life insurance
policy on her, so maybe he was taking it serious.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
Yes, you heard Brian correctly. According to police reports, it
seems Bob had two life insurance policies on Anastasia. The
first one he took out in February of nineteen ninety
two for twenty thousand dollars.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
Bob was the beneficiary.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
That was paid out May nineteen ninety eight, so about
seven months after Anastasia's death. The other policy was taken
out on October twentieth, nineteen ninety seven, two days before Anastasia.
That policy was for twelve thousand dollars and Bob again

(42:06):
was the beneficiary. It should be known that Bob didn't
seek this policy out. It was basically a solicitation call
from J. C. Penny because he had a JC Penny
credit card. I don't know if this policy was ever
paid out. Did Bob have policies on all of his kids?

Speaker 1 (42:26):
I also don't know that.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
Here's Anastasia's mom, Betsy, talking to Sergeant Kilgore about one
of the insurance policies.

Speaker 11 (42:35):
Where Robert was kind of pissy. He got an art
why he just got more one.

Speaker 12 (42:42):
Thousand dollar accidental death and insurance policy on her but
then he found out that it wasn't going to cover
because she was eighteen in that full time student.

Speaker 10 (42:55):
So he's loll pissed off about that way.

Speaker 8 (42:58):
At least his expenses got paid for where ye I
guess he had two thousand at work on her. So
we split the funeral bell.

Speaker 10 (43:05):
And a half and my my stuffs paid it because.

Speaker 11 (43:08):
They didn't have and.

Speaker 9 (43:12):
So I don't know his his robber been pretty ubserve overall.

Speaker 11 (43:18):
Yeah, he even went to the well. At first it
was like we're gonna have you know, we're gonna bury her.
And the next day it's like, well.

Speaker 10 (43:27):
We got a crematory, you know.

Speaker 11 (43:30):
I well, I said, well, well, I asked him, well,
don't they need to keep the body, you know, can
stay after I ever have to exu it, you know,
instead of having a crewmated, and uh, all of a
sudden it was he wanted to have a crewmated. Why
and well, that's what she would want, That's what her
friends say that she would want. You know, she and

(43:52):
I talked about her being in a casket, and you
usually don't have a casket on a cremation, so him
and she didn't carry you know, she started that bar.
I don't care what you do with the just put
me in the box and down stainly. I can be
taken a quide aways, but he wanted to ClearMate it,
and I wasn't going to hide.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
I asked Nicole her take on the insurance policies. It
was weird because I was suspicious of the insurance policies,
but then in the reports it says it was like
a mat and I don't think it matters whether it
was a solicitor call or Bob sat. You don't want
it to get a policy because I just think that

(44:31):
it's hard to look at this case and not consider
that fact, which was totally not considered by either side
of trial. So I mentioned earlier that Bob is in prison.
Now you're going to hear why.

Speaker 3 (44:47):
Bob is currently residing with the Missouri Department of Corrections
serving a seven year sentence for statutory a sodomy of
a minor.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
Anastasia's father, Bob Whitbolsfugen, is currently in a Missouri prison
serving a seven year sentence for statutory sodomy. The case
originates in twenty sixteen. There's a lot of back and
forth in the courts than in twenty nineteen. Bob pleads
guilty and is sentenced to seven years with five years

(45:30):
of SES, which is a suspended executed sentence. This essentially
gives Bob supervised probation for five years. If he doesn't
meet all of the conditions of his probation, then the
court will revoke his probation and give him prison time.
He also has to register as a sex offender. Here's

(45:50):
attorney Nicole Gordon.

Speaker 7 (45:51):
So, I think that was an issue at one time.
You know, when he was first placed on probation, he
was allowed to have access to the young children in
his FAEM family with supervision, so he could be around
the younger kids with their parents around.

Speaker 6 (46:05):
And then something happened and they said no.

Speaker 7 (46:09):
They took that away specifically, And so I went to
a violation hearing and they had talked about previous violations
where drinking was an issue, and I believe pornography was
also an issue. But in this particular hearing, he had
dumped shovels in the victim's yard.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
What does a mean no dumped shovels.

Speaker 6 (46:32):
I don't know. It was just a weird thing that
he did that the court didn't like.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
Multiple shovels.

Speaker 6 (46:38):
Yes, the court said shovels.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
Now this weird shovels thing is hearsay, right. But Nicole
sent me the notes she took and emailed to Byron's
other lawyers after attending Bob's probation violation hearing on the
morning of September thirtieth, twenty twenty one, and it's in
her notes, writes prosecutor accused Bob of quote very disturbing behaviors,

(47:05):
saying that Bob dropped off a quote pile of shovels
in the victim's yard. It seems after violating his probation
six times from twenty twenty to twenty twenty two. In
November of twenty twenty two, Bob's probation is finally revoked
and he's sentenced to the seven years. Here's investigator Quinn

(47:29):
O'Brien talking about that hearing where it all went down.

Speaker 5 (47:34):
Like, I don't know much about the victim. I just
went to the probation revocation hearing and Bob's attorney put
him on the stand. This just I mean, when we
talk about getting chills, Bob was on the stand and
his attorney is giving him a direct examination, and the
attorney is asking Bob if he feels any remorse or

(47:55):
if he understands that what he did to this young
woman was wrong. And bob answer is that this young
woman isn't directly related to him. He tried to treat
her like one of his daughters, but he understands now
that because she's not his daughter, there are certain boundaries
that he could not cross with her. There were certain

(48:18):
things that he should not do with her in the
home because this young woman isn't his daughter. And I'm
sitting here thinking that's a confession.

Speaker 6 (48:28):
Oh my god.

Speaker 5 (48:29):
I had always thought, given Anastasia's desperation not to move
back with back with her father, she clearly has some trauma.

Speaker 6 (48:40):
She's suicidal.

Speaker 5 (48:42):
I can't I just can't even speak it into existence.
It's just when Bob said on the stand that he
treated the young woman that he raped like he would
have treated his own daughters, I was horrified. I mean,
that's it's no I know what he did, I know
what he prefered to you. I know what he did,

(49:07):
and I don't think I don't think I could even
say it out loud. It's it's disturbing, and I know
that it happened more than once because who reported it?
She reported to her mother, and eventually her mother was
the one who called it in because the young girl
was able to identify a birthmark in a private area

(49:29):
on Bob's body that she would not have seen unless
Bob had his pants off in her presence. And when
this young person's mother heard that, it finally clicked and
she believed her daughter and reported it. And it's unspeakable.
But even during the probation revocation hearing, the prosecutor brought

(49:50):
up like this isn't the first time that you've even
been charged with something like this, And I was a
little stunned. But in Missouri, if you're not convicted of
a crime, if you're only charged with a crime once
that once you're acquitted, or if the charges are dropped,
that record becomes sealed, Like I can't get it. So
if Bob has been charged with, or been investigated for,

(50:13):
or even arrested for molesting children before this, those records
are going to be sealed in Missouri because he wasn't
convicted of them.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
Okay, I don't have a transcript of what was set
in court at Bob's final probation revocation hearing, Quinn is
telling me what she says she heard, Like Nicole Quinn
sent me her notes from that hearing. I don't see
anything in there about Bob saying he didn't know he
couldn't treat the victim as one of his daughters. Doesn't
mean it wasn't said. It's just not in Quinn's notes.

(50:44):
What is in Quinn's notes is that Bob blames this
situation on his daughter's death, and that Bob says, quote,
I am the problem. He says, even his daughters point
out to him, he is the problem. One interesting detail
that may mean absolutely nothing is that the attorney who

(51:06):
represented Bob at these hearings is the same attorney who
represented Kelly when she came forward. Anyway, just because Bob
is in prison for doing what he pled guilty to doing,
which sounds like it was pretty awful, doesn't mean he
has done anything else to anyone else, and it especially

(51:29):
doesn't mean he did anything to Anastasia. But Byron's team says,
although there are several things that make them suspicious of Bob,
like Deputy Eperson's reports, the stories Betsy shared, and why
he is currently incarcerated. There is also someone else who
is on their radar, Patrick Rock. We talked about Patrick

(51:54):
Rock in episode three. He is a close family friend
and has referred to himself as at times as Anastasia's
godfather and adoptive uncle. He started and still maintains the
Anastasia Memorial website. He also emailed several times with Byron
on behalf of himself and Bob. Here's Nicole again.

Speaker 6 (52:16):
Pet Rock is a family friend.

Speaker 7 (52:19):
He inserted himself in the investigation, primarily with about the
reward and starting the website. Managing the website, he would
call and ask Kilgore, Hey, I'm going to post this information.
I'm going to post this article. And I think that
there was tension there, but not like it was with Bob.
Can I also add something?

Speaker 3 (52:39):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (52:40):
Bob asked Sergeant Kilgore whether pat had an alibi and
told him that if she had made it to a pavement,
she knew his number by heart and she would have
called him.

Speaker 6 (52:51):
We know that they spoke often.

Speaker 7 (52:54):
Pat Rock said that he spoke with Anastasia the monday
before she died. She had called him in the evening
to confide in him about what was going on. And
so Pat Rock is at someone that kill or would
want to talk to and officially get on the record.
But that doesn't happen.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
Were phone records Were their phone records ever pulled in
this case? No, that's right.

Speaker 2 (53:19):
No phone records were pulled in this case at all.
Not Justin's phone records, Byron's phone records, Kelly's phone records,
or Bob's phone records. Not the dairy Queen's payphone records,
the records for the payphone at the gas station where
two people allegedly said they saw a young woman use

(53:41):
the phone, Not the phone records from the Phillips sixty
sixth station in Kansas where Justin called Anastasia's house, the
same gas station where Kelly said she called Anastasia. They
also didn't pull Byron's beeper records. Sergeant Kilgore never had
any of those records pulled. Okay, Back to Patrick Rock,

(54:09):
Anastasia's mom, Betsy Owens, talks about him in that interview
with Kilgore on November seventh, nineteen ninety seven. Here she
is talking about some of her conversations with Anastasia in
the three days leading up to her death, which included
how Anastasia didn't want to talk about God.

Speaker 8 (54:29):
And we believe that I attributed to this one thing.
Pat Rock. I checked his name on there, who has
an atheist and has been kind of an usual friend
with the family.

Speaker 10 (54:42):
I did not approve of him. I've been keeping.

Speaker 8 (54:44):
Kids away from when Bob had it been it's like
one of the kid's birthdays this weekend, and his brother
calm and keep this guy away for the kids.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
That's he just said.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
At one of the kid's birthdays that week, Bob's brother
told him to keep Patrick away from the kids, but
Bob was going to let them see him over at
his house. Betsy then says she told one of her
brothers she thought Patrick was quote a latent pedophile. Here's Nicole, but.

Speaker 6 (55:13):
She's suspicious, she says.

Speaker 7 (55:15):
Betsy tells Detective Kilgore that her Bob's brother, Hugo, is
also suspicious that Pat Rock had approached Bob at a
party that they were all at and told Bob to
keep the girls away from Pat Rock.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
Although Betsy and perhaps Bob's brother are suspicious of Patrick Rock,
there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Patrick Rock
is or ever was, a pedophile. Attorney Brian Russell says,
but wait, there may be two more reasons why Kilgore
should have paid more attention to him during the investigation.

Speaker 3 (55:51):
Family had said Anastasia's family had said at the time
that if she called for a ride, she would have
called Pat Rock. Pat Rock changed his phone number the
day after her body was found. We also know that
he was involved in the Negro Leagues. In Kansas City,
there's a Negro League's museum and he was kind of

(56:11):
an amateur historian for that, and one of the things
we found in our investigation is that he liked to
go try to find graves of Negro League players and
Lincoln Cemetery is a historically black cemetery. Charlie Parker is
buried there and four Negro League players are buried in

(56:32):
Lincoln Cemetery. There's a working theory that he could have
been familiar with the cemetery, and when we went out
there one day to see if we could locate some
of those headstones for those players, we spent a significant
amount of time wandering around looking at greystones. And it's
hard to do in that cemetery because so because the

(56:54):
gravestones are all flat, dirt has gathered on a lot
of them, and there's even grass growing on a lot
of them, so sometimes you could step on a headstone
and not even realize you're on a headstone and you
have to clear it off. And we were doing that
for a decent amount of time before we were like, okay,
this is kind of pointless. Literally, as we were about
to give up, I looked down and found one of

(57:16):
them right there, and we measured it off and it
was like about sixty feet away from where Anastasia's body
was found. Maybe another coincidence of the many that are
in this case.

Speaker 1 (57:42):
Where is Pat Rock today?

Speaker 7 (57:45):
Pat Rock lives in Ukraine, moved there six months ago
with his girlfriend possibly wife, who's from Ukraine.

Speaker 1 (57:56):
I write to.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
Patrick Rock in Ukraine requesting an interview. He responds and
declines to talk on the phone or over zoom, but
says he might be willing to answer my questions via email,
but because he is skeptical and cynical about my intent,
he first gives me homework.

Speaker 1 (58:14):
He wants me to review.

Speaker 2 (58:15):
All of the evidence on the stasia dot org website
that he says proves Byron is guilty. Here is some
of his first email to me, we've hired an actor
to read it.

Speaker 13 (58:29):
Please be assured that we all firmly believe in the
jury's final verdict. I established the case against case webpage
to answer many of the half truths and misinformation provided
by supporters. I would hope you have already viewed it
before having contacted any of us.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
Patrick goes on to talk about Justin Bruton's death, saying
it wasn't fully investigated and there might be evidence that
contradicts or clouds the ruling of a probable suicide.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
Patrick says, the.

Speaker 13 (59:00):
Truth is that the investigation into his death was ruined
by the first officer who found his body. Body and
the weapon were moved, the grass around the scene was trampled.
The entire crime scene was absolutely tainted.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
I read the link Patrick sent me about Justin's death.
To me, there's nothing that seems to point to anything
other than suicide. In fact, the coroner said the manner
of death was suicide, not probable suicide, like Patrick states.
Then mister Rock mentions something that Byron wrote.

Speaker 13 (59:34):
A bizarre short fiction he wrote and placed on his
website between the time of the murder and his arrest,
in which he told his own fictionalized version of the
murder placed one hundred years in the past.

Speaker 1 (59:47):
Now this is true.

Speaker 2 (59:49):
It seems Byron wrote letters to a fictitious mister White
in sort of a Charles Dickens's voice and old fashioned font.
There are also the faces of Justin Kelly in Anastasia
photoshopped onto Victorian era clothed bodies. The letters are dated
with various months and days, but no years. Patrick says

(01:00:10):
they were written between the time of the murder and
Byron's arrest. I don't know when Byron actually wrote them, anyway.
In these letters, Byron writes about a lot of things,
including introducing Anastasia and Justin being enamored with Kelly, Kelly's
alleged infidelity, working at a restaurant, and the deaths of Anastasia,

(01:00:31):
Justin and his dad. Basically, he tells the same story
he always has, just set in another time.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
But in one letter he.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
Writes he is quote quite adept at excuses, and that
quote this shall no doubt be my undoing. Someday I
email Byron about this, and he writes, in part quote
what have come to be called mister White letters, which
I always considered the Gray letters, actually were all written
for my personal website.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
It was partly a.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
Way for me to put the past in its place,
describing different periods of my life in three distinct shades,
each of which represented a particular era. Black represented my
dark history, specific with drug use. Gray represented the more
recent past and explored the pain of loss. White represented
the present and an overcoming of all that came before.

(01:01:25):
It was all very cathartic and clearly beyond anyone's ability
to comprehend outside of the light cast on it by
the guilty verdict at my trial. Back to Patrick Rock's
email to me, he goes on to say, quote.

Speaker 13 (01:01:42):
I met Byron Case while Anastasia was alive. I knew
the details of their relationship with each other, going back
to their high school days, and I communicated with him
sporadically in an adversarial manner at his instigation following her murder.
Until I attended his trial and heard the evidence myself,
I did not know whether he was guilty or not.

(01:02:04):
Sitting and listening for those four days convinced me of
his guilt. Patrick continues, as much as I love Denistasia,
I see my duty these days as to protect society
by working to count of the misinformation or kill her
support or spread. I cannot bring her back. He killed
her more than a quarter century ago. He killed her yesterday,

(01:02:25):
he will kill her tomorrow. It is a sorrow and
loss with which I live every day. I do not
receive any joy from his suffering. But I believe he
would have killed again by now, perhaps more than just
a second time, had he not been put safely away
twenty three years ago. But having personally been slandered and
cyberstock more than once by a number of his friends

(01:02:47):
and family. I hope you understand my reluctance to get
more involved in your project without some better idea of
its intent.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
After that email, I get another one from Patrick. He
says he's writing because he's heard that I went to
Kelly's mom's house and harassed her. Patrick says the FBC
Free Byron Case group has been harassing all of them,
especially Kelly, for years. In fact, Kelly also emails accusing

(01:03:16):
me of harassing her mother. In one email, Kelly writes, quote,
when you were a little girl, is this how you
pictured your career as a journalist? Harassing the family and
friends of an eighteen year old girl who was gunned
down by people she trusted.

Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
You must be so.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
Proud, I assure Patrick and Kelly in multiple emails, they
are mistaken.

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
It wasn't me.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
I have never been to Debera Moffatt's house. I've never
spoken with her. That's not how I operate. I'm an
independent journalist and aligned with no one. Eventually, Kelly believes
me and apologizes. Still, I was quite upset by the
whole thing, so I asked Byron's legal team if they

(01:04:03):
went to Deborah Moffatt's house, and to my surprise, they
say yes they did. They send me a statement which
explains that they went there looking for Kelly, but there
was no harassment or intimidation. They said they talked to
Deborah and the exchange lasted about three minutes and was conversational.

Speaker 6 (01:04:26):
They said they left their.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
Business card so it was clear who they were and
why they were there. Then they said, quote, the evidence
is very clear that Byron Case is innocent of the
crime for which he has spent more than twenty years
in prison. We will continue working on his case, and
we will continue to act ethically and with integrity within
the legal system to correct this injustice. Sean and Quin O'Brien.

(01:04:54):
Needless to say, this whole alleged harassing of Deborah Moffatt
thing gets in the way of me asking Patrick some
very important things. I eventually send him my list of questions.
I hope he will respond. In the meantime, this needs
to be said and heard loud and clear. Neither Bob Whitbulesfugen,

(01:05:16):
nor Patrick Rock have ever been charged or convicted of
anything related to Anastasia's death.

Speaker 5 (01:05:25):
Even if Bob Whitble's Fugen is a child molester, I
don't know if he's a murderer and to have murdered
his daughter, and I just can't fathom that a father
would do that to his daughter.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
Next time on the Real Killer.

Speaker 7 (01:05:44):
We know from what Don Wright told us that Anasasia
was wearing socks, Birkenstock like styled sandals and baggy blue jeans.
Those aren't the clothes she was found in.

Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
The sixty four thousand dollars. Question is this did Anastasia
go home that.

Speaker 3 (01:06:03):
Night where Bob says I found her blue jeans in
the washing machine. I found a pair of her underwear
soaking in the utilities sink.

Speaker 6 (01:06:12):
That's what she was.

Speaker 3 (01:06:13):
Wearing at Dairy Queen and if those made at home,
that means she went home, and if she went home,
Byron didn't do it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely
those of the individuals participating in the podcast. If you,
or someone you know is experiencing suicidal thoughts or a crisis,
please no help is available. Call or text nine to
eight eight, or chat online at the Suicide and Crisis

(01:06:44):
Lifelines website at nine eight eight lifeline dot org. To
see photos, maps and documents related to this season's story,
follow The Real Killer podcast on Instagram and at TRK
podcast on TikTok. The Real Killer is a production of

(01:07:05):
AYR Media and iHeartMedia, hosted by me Leah Rothman. Executive
producers Leah Rothman and Elisa Rosen for AYR Media. Written
by Leah Rothman, editing and sound design by Cameron Taggy,
mixed and mastered by Cameron Taggi. Production coordinator Andy Levine,

(01:07:28):
Audio engineer Justin Longerbeam studio engineer Graham Gibson. Voice acting
by Art Garza. Legal council for AYR Media, Johnny Douglas,
Executive producer for iHeartMedia.

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
Maya Howard