October 20, 2021 • 19 mins
Nearly two years into the pandemic, the U.S. is seeing a sustained drop in new COVID cases. And recent forecast models by researchers advising the CDC suggest we could see a steady decline in cases throughout the winter and into spring, rather than a seasonal surge. Is the country really edging toward an end to the crisis? Two leading voices in COVID research and analysis — Dr. Bill Ku (retired scientist and a former senior lecturer and researcher at Columbia University), and Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding (epidemiologist and senior fellow at the Federation of American Scientists) join The Recount Daily Pod to catch us up on where we stand with COVID today.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
From the recount on Marina nine in and you're listening
to the Recount Daily Pod. Today's Wednesday, October kids per
week dying of COVID is not morally acceptable. We recall
millions of cribs and baby toys whenever there's any one
single death. That was Dr Eric Feigel, dang epidemiologist and
(00:27):
senior fellow at the Federation of American Scientists, talking about
how COVID affected children across the world. He and Dr
Bill Coup, retired scientist and a former senior lecturer and
researcher at Columbia University, will join me to discuss the
ongoing pandemic a little later on, but first your morning headlines.
(00:48):
A federal grand jury hasn't died in Nebraska Congressman Jeff
Forton Berry for lying to the FBI about two thousand
sixteen reelection contributions from a Lebanese Nigerian billionaire. The Republican
lawmaker is charged with one count of scheming to falsify
and conceal material facts and two counts of making false
statements to federal investigators. Those charges each carry a maximum
(01:11):
of five years in federal prison. Fort and Berry anticipated
his indictment in a YouTube video this week where he
denounced the FBI agents who visited his home in two
thousand nine. They've accused me of lying to them and
are charging me with this. We're shocked, We're stunned. I
feel so personally betrayed. We thought we were trying to help,
(01:36):
and so now we will have to fight fort and
Berry has agreed to appear in court today for his arraignment.
The kidnappers behind the abduction and Haiti of sixteen American
missionaries and one Canadian have made their ransom demand seventeen
million dollars or one million dollars per hostage. State Department
personnel and the FBI are in Haiti, but have provided
(01:57):
few details on their efforts. White House Press Sector Jerry
Jensaki had this to add, kidnapping is widespread and victims
regularly include US citizens. We know these groups target U.
S citizens who they assume have the resources and finances
to pay ransoms, even if that is not the case.
Next Facebook will pay up to fourteen point three million
(02:18):
dollars after settling with the U. S. Government over allegations
that the company discriminated against US citizens, at least when
it came to hiring applicants for over twenty six hundred jobs.
The Department Justice lawsuit last year charged the company with
saving the high paying roles for foreigners. Most of the
money will go to eligible victims of the alleged discrimination.
(02:40):
As part of the settlements, the Labor Department will get
to look into Facebook's program for foreign job applicants. And
now to our interview, nearly two years into the pandemic,
the US is seeing a big decrease in COVID cases.
Does that mean that the country is closer to coming
out of the crisis? And when can we expect our
kids under to finally get vaccinated? Today I'm joined by
(03:02):
two of the leading voices in COVID research and analysis.
Dr Bill Coup, retired scientists and former senior lecturer and
researcher at Columbia University, and Dr Eric figel Ding, epidemiologist
and senior fellow at the Federation of American Scientists. Dr
Coop and Dr figel Ding both said that I could
call them Bill and Eric. I want to thank you
(03:24):
both for joining us. I guess my first questionnaire to you,
are we finally emerging out of this pandemic? We've seen
a decline in cases is the worst behind US with COVID.
Thank you for having me. I think in many ways
we want to think we're over, but I don't think
we're over because we've seen waves after waves, and many
times in many countries. Delta variant also hits twice. UK
(03:47):
thought they were over delta, but now UK is having
another surge of cases, hospitalizations, and deaths. In US, we
obviously have vaccines are not being administered in off as
well as we have. Of course, with vaccine waning and
all that, as winter approaches, is gonna be kind of
(04:08):
like the perfect storm for one more big wave at least,
because I do not think we're going to be through
this until at least middle of next year. The middle
of next year. Interesting, you know, nearly two thousand Americans
are still dying daily. What's your biggest warri Aric? As
we head into cold and flue season, how do you
think the flu season will effect COVID. I think the
(04:29):
cold and flu season is going to be much much
harder than we think. In many ways. Our delta wave
that we just passed was in the middle of the
lowest part of the flu season, so August and September
are the lowest months for respiratory illness is traditionally, and
yet we still had a tremendous, tremendous death pull. So
(04:52):
as we approach the actual fold and flu respiratory virus season,
we have to come with the reality that actually being
potentially one of the bigger waves that we've seen, given
that the bearings that we now have are much more
contagious last year and much more deadly than the old
streams that we had last year. So I don't think
(05:13):
we are well prepared for that bill. You know, it's
interesting because we've heard Dr Anthony Fauci, the top medical
expert in the White House, say, if you're vaccinated, you
guys can get together this holiday season. Do you agree
with Dr Fauci? I thought everybody in the family is
uh backs and a draft of this self. But because
virus is so contellious and adulta form, that multilateral approach
(05:37):
is really appropriate for even intimate family gatherings. So masking
whenever they're not hurting is so advisable because single line
of defense is very poor against this very competitive, very
violent delta strung. I want to ask you about Cool
(05:58):
and Pal who passed away this week due to complications
from COVID. What do we know about that? Because he
was fully vaccinated. Colin Power had multiple by aloma. And
for patients and people out there who don't understand, it's
a blood cancer but which the treatments actually destroy the
plasma cells that make antibodies. So we've seen a lot
(06:22):
of evidence that people who are vaccinated but have multiple
my aloma don't respond well and make a lot of antibodies,
so their immune response is very very suppressed. Now there's
obviously T cells, but a lot of the antibodies produced
traditionally by the MR and a vaccine is much much
lower and weaker. And that's why this is even more
(06:46):
important to protect those around us who can't have a
full immune response by vaccinating by vaccine to prect our kids,
vaccinating to protect cancer patients who are aunt mounts and
antibody response as well, and again to really protect your
community is something that oftentimes is so lost in the pandemic.
(07:11):
It's not just about yourself. Oh i'm immune, I've already
had COVID. Oh i'm vaccinated. I don't need to wear
a mask. I think that kind of selfish approach has
really endangered us. And I think Colin Powell is a
perfect example. He is susceptible to COVID even after vaccine
because he has this cancer that obviously makes him very,
(07:35):
very vulnerable. And because of that, we've neglected and killed
off a lot of people that we love and value
in this world, whether it's kids or the elderly. And
I think that's the greatest shameful thing and we should
reflect on that. Are we here to only care about
ourselves in society? Are we here to also protect others
(07:56):
around us? We've got to take a quick break. We'll
be right back with Dr Bill Coup and Dr Eric
figel Ding on Recounting the pod. Welcome back to the
Recount Daily Pod, a podcast from the Recount and I
Heart Radio. I'm joined by doctor Bill Coup and Dr
Eric figel Ding, and we're talking about the latest research
(08:18):
on COVID in America. But I know a lot of
people personally who have been vaccinated and are part of
these breakthrough cases they got COVID. What do you think
it is that the CDC isn't telling us about breakthrough
cases Fifty to sixty five year old adults once a
vaccinator twenty times less likely to get COVID from lacted people.
(08:42):
That's an increadible improvement and improves the Concord trial result
that vaccines are effective in terms of preventing serious death.
But on another hand, for certain groups of people like
those over sixty five who were vast the first and
then another in Jana February, breakthroughs are service problem and
(09:06):
then now people under sextified a little bit of suffering
because vaccine a lot of thought when and for that group.
Do you believe that the CDC was forthcoming in these
breakthrough vaccinations. I think the CDC was negligent and not
tracking them as diligently as other countries. The reason we
actually know waning um is a thing is because of
(09:29):
actually Israel. Histrael's Ministry of Health has nationwide surveillance of
all breakthroughs, not just hospitalizations. CEC basically back in May
said we're not going to track breakthrough cases. We're only
going to track breakthrough hospitalizations, which again was very very
poor choice, because the transmission is what actually will allow
the virus to spread to more people. That's in a
(09:52):
certain way that they're blind spot. They said, well, transmission
doesn't matter as long as hospitalization is good. Well, we
have way to many people unprotected. We of obviously anti
vactor's vaccine hesitant, and we have children who are not vaccinated.
And of course the other thing that they didn't see
around the corner was waning and that a lot of
elderly are you know, susceptible, And this waning is significant.
(10:13):
We're not talking about like, you know, five ten percent.
We're talking about like down to less than fifty percent
efficacy against infection. And I think the CDC completely dropped
the ball. And of course, all at the same time,
you may they also said vaccinate people don't need to mask,
but I may, we already saw they were breakthrough cases
and also that vaccinated breakthrough cases even happened asymptomatically and
(10:38):
just transmit onwards to vulnerable people. And I think that
was CDC's greatest mistake. Do we know what the efficacy
of the vaccine drops off after six months? Most vaccine
it's not surprising the personal flu vaccine is because they're
designed to waning after six month, like um stal vaccines.
(11:01):
I'm not even anywhere near as effective at the COVID vaccines.
They're typically only forted to six effective and the COVID
i'm a vaccines and miracles by those standards then effective
from the beginning. But all the time they're wing and
the citizen data shows that winning. And they should have
(11:23):
released that data to the public, to scientists and to
the fterday much earlier than the athlete that we're gonna pass.
Take a quick Frank Welling right back with Dr Bill
Coo and Dr Eric figel Ding on the Recount Daily Pod.
Welcome back to the Recount Daily Pod and podcast from
(11:44):
the Recount and I Heart Radio. I'm joined by Dr
Bill Coo and Dr Eric figel Ding. We're talking about
the current state of COVID in America. I want to
ask you about children under twelve. I'm a mom of
two kids under twelve. If feels like this is taken forever,
is there a hold up here? And what would you
say to parents who are worried about vaccinating their children.
(12:08):
Kids are extremely vulnerable. Kids are not protected. There's been
a lot of misinformation that kids are practically immune. Oh,
don't worry about kids. Kids death rates are so low
and we should not use the comparison that kids are
lower risk than adults or kids are died less or
(12:29):
hospitalized less than an elderly vaccinated person because kids are
not supposed to die. Kids are not supposed to be hospitalized.
You know, twenty kids per week dying of COVID is
not morally acceptable. We recall millions of cribs and baby
toys whenever there's any one single death. And for us
(12:51):
to tolerate twenty deaths a week, in addition to the
hospitalization and the long COVID risk which are substantial, it
is just morally prisible. What do we know about the
kids vaccine? Eric, They probably won't get the same amount
as the adults get in vile This is actually very
tricky because kids doses for five to eleven, the one
that's about to be authorized and approved, is one third
(13:15):
dose of adults. So instead of the thirty microgram per
dose for fiser adults, those the five to eleven page group,
why have a ten microgram? This actually creates a logistical
hurdle because you can't just divide by three. Take adult
dose divide by three. The volume is too low according
to experts. So what they're gonna do Once the vaccine
(13:38):
for kids five to eleven are authorized and approved, they're
actually going to get a specific pediatric vaccine vials, and
these vials have to be redistributed across the country because
it was a bit of a disaster Eric the first rollout,
you know, at the beginning of the year, when the
vials first came out for adults exactly, it took a
(13:59):
while to get the distribution for these vials out and
we're gonna have to potentially repeat it and hopefully we
can get kids vaccinated the day after the CDC approves it.
But I hope that the logistical supply chain and delivery
system is up to part when kids can get these vaccines.
(14:20):
I want to ask you about monoclonal antibodies that have
been used as a treatment for COVID patients. It was
used on President Trump when he was infected in October.
How much is the treatment? Does it really work? Is
it effective in treating COVID? I think monoclo antibody is
a very effective treatment for people as a second line defense.
(14:41):
That's show not be used as a substitute for vaccines.
That's much more expensive thunder accidents, at least a hundred
times more costly for those the vaccines, which does amount
for the people it's uh, you know, one hit wonder
in many ways, and it can also lead to a
lot of mutations. So long term monoclonal antibodies, it may
(15:05):
not work months or a year from now because of
the nature that the virus will adapt to them antibody.
And so this is why vaccines are better. Because vaccines
are polyclone. It designs many attack patterns against the virus. Well,
the monoclonal antibody is only a single strike approach. Eric,
I want to ask you also about Mark's anti viral
(15:27):
oral drug. It's supposed to reduce the risk of becoming
sick or ending up in the hospital. At least three
other oral seed COVID nineteen pills are also expected to
have clinical data by the end of the year. What
are your thoughts on oral pills. I think the most
of monopayer of her um antiviral drug is very good
uh potential. It's the first dry pill anti viral that
(15:48):
actually reduces mortality. There is a slight concern though that
it's mutagenic, that it's designed to cause mutations in the
coronavirus so that it can't replicate, But I think overall
it's incredibly even more powerful than I think mon fly
anybodies because you can take this well immediately after you're infected,
(16:10):
you know, reduce hospitalization. But DONA still must one that
should not be used as a frontline replacement for vaccines.
Vaccine it's a nine percent effect of UM. The antiviral
pels are fifty percent effective. I mean it's ten times
less effective in terms of preventing death or hospitalizers and vaccines.
(16:33):
When do you think that people under sixty five will
be able in this country? In the United States to
qualify for a booster. Boosters are already quite widely available
if you are in a high risk risk factory group
under sixty five, or if you work in an occupational
setting with high exposures such as teachers or public transit
or first responders. But I think it should be much
(16:57):
more widely declared because in Israel not fully backs until
your triple backs. And I think that this weird information
approach of well, depending on your high exposure, it leaves
a lot of confusion. It's again, we're not taking the
precautionary approach to protect their young people and protecting those
(17:17):
around us who are you know, compromised. Dr Eric figel
Ding and Dr Bill Coup. I want to thank you
both so much for sharing your insights on COVID with us,
and now let's look ahead. What else is happening today?
The Senate is expected to hold a procedural vote on
the Freedom to Vote Act. The bill would set standards
(17:39):
for same day and even automatic voter registration. It would
also make Election Day, which falls on Tuesday, a public holiday.
The bill is said to have the support of fifties
Senate Democrats, but would need another ten from Republicans to
pass over filibuster by the GOP. California Representative Rocana and
celebrity Paris Hilton will hold a press conference on institutional
(18:02):
child abuse in d C this morning. The event is
a push for a federal bill of rights for children
in places like group homes and treatment facilities. Employees and
Netflix will be holding a walk out this morning to
protest the company's handling of a comedy special by Dave
Chappelle that they call transphobic. Several entertainers will appear in
(18:23):
a video p s A in support of the rally
that includes Jonathan van Ness, who appears in Netflix's Queer
I Reboot. A group of trans employees at The company
released a list of demands ahead of the walkout, which
includes investing in trans creators and an acknowledgement of Netflix's
responsibility of the harm caused by transphobic content, a point
(18:45):
that Netflix co CEO Ted Serrando's rejected in a company
wide memo last week. This is the Recount Daily Pod
podcast from the Recount Our Thanks to Dr Bill couber
To hired scientists and a former senior lecturer and researcher
at Columbia University, and Dr Eric Feigelding, epidemiologist and Senior
(19:07):
Fellow at the Federation of American Scientists, for being on
the show. And if you like this episode, I hope
you'll subscribe to the Recount Daily Pod and leave us
a rating on the Apple podcast app. I'm your Host,
Rena Ninan
From the recount on Marina nine in and you're listening
to the Recount Daily Pod. Today's Wednesday, October kids per
week dying of COVID is not morally acceptable. We recall
millions of cribs and baby toys whenever there's any one
single death. That was Dr Eric Feigel, dang epidemiologist and
(00:27):
senior fellow at the Federation of American Scientists, talking about
how COVID affected children across the world. He and Dr
Bill Coup, retired scientist and a former senior lecturer and
researcher at Columbia University, will join me to discuss the
ongoing pandemic a little later on, but first your morning headlines.
(00:48):
A federal grand jury hasn't died in Nebraska Congressman Jeff
Forton Berry for lying to the FBI about two thousand
sixteen reelection contributions from a Lebanese Nigerian billionaire. The Republican
lawmaker is charged with one count of scheming to falsify
and conceal material facts and two counts of making false
statements to federal investigators. Those charges each carry a maximum
(01:11):
of five years in federal prison. Fort and Berry anticipated
his indictment in a YouTube video this week where he
denounced the FBI agents who visited his home in two
thousand nine. They've accused me of lying to them and
are charging me with this. We're shocked, We're stunned. I
feel so personally betrayed. We thought we were trying to help,
(01:36):
and so now we will have to fight fort and
Berry has agreed to appear in court today for his arraignment.
The kidnappers behind the abduction and Haiti of sixteen American
missionaries and one Canadian have made their ransom demand seventeen
million dollars or one million dollars per hostage. State Department
personnel and the FBI are in Haiti, but have provided
(01:57):
few details on their efforts. White House Press Sector Jerry
Jensaki had this to add, kidnapping is widespread and victims
regularly include US citizens. We know these groups target U.
S citizens who they assume have the resources and finances
to pay ransoms, even if that is not the case.
Next Facebook will pay up to fourteen point three million
(02:18):
dollars after settling with the U. S. Government over allegations
that the company discriminated against US citizens, at least when
it came to hiring applicants for over twenty six hundred jobs.
The Department Justice lawsuit last year charged the company with
saving the high paying roles for foreigners. Most of the
money will go to eligible victims of the alleged discrimination.
(02:40):
As part of the settlements, the Labor Department will get
to look into Facebook's program for foreign job applicants. And
now to our interview, nearly two years into the pandemic,
the US is seeing a big decrease in COVID cases.
Does that mean that the country is closer to coming
out of the crisis? And when can we expect our
kids under to finally get vaccinated? Today I'm joined by
(03:02):
two of the leading voices in COVID research and analysis.
Dr Bill Coup, retired scientists and former senior lecturer and
researcher at Columbia University, and Dr Eric figel Ding, epidemiologist
and senior fellow at the Federation of American Scientists. Dr
Coop and Dr figel Ding both said that I could
call them Bill and Eric. I want to thank you
(03:24):
both for joining us. I guess my first questionnaire to you,
are we finally emerging out of this pandemic? We've seen
a decline in cases is the worst behind US with COVID.
Thank you for having me. I think in many ways
we want to think we're over, but I don't think
we're over because we've seen waves after waves, and many
times in many countries. Delta variant also hits twice. UK
(03:47):
thought they were over delta, but now UK is having
another surge of cases, hospitalizations, and deaths. In US, we
obviously have vaccines are not being administered in off as
well as we have. Of course, with vaccine waning and
all that, as winter approaches, is gonna be kind of
(04:08):
like the perfect storm for one more big wave at least,
because I do not think we're going to be through
this until at least middle of next year. The middle
of next year. Interesting, you know, nearly two thousand Americans
are still dying daily. What's your biggest warri Aric? As
we head into cold and flue season, how do you
think the flu season will effect COVID. I think the
(04:29):
cold and flu season is going to be much much
harder than we think. In many ways. Our delta wave
that we just passed was in the middle of the
lowest part of the flu season, so August and September
are the lowest months for respiratory illness is traditionally, and
yet we still had a tremendous, tremendous death pull. So
(04:52):
as we approach the actual fold and flu respiratory virus season,
we have to come with the reality that actually being
potentially one of the bigger waves that we've seen, given
that the bearings that we now have are much more
contagious last year and much more deadly than the old
streams that we had last year. So I don't think
(05:13):
we are well prepared for that bill. You know, it's
interesting because we've heard Dr Anthony Fauci, the top medical
expert in the White House, say, if you're vaccinated, you
guys can get together this holiday season. Do you agree
with Dr Fauci? I thought everybody in the family is
uh backs and a draft of this self. But because
virus is so contellious and adulta form, that multilateral approach
(05:37):
is really appropriate for even intimate family gatherings. So masking
whenever they're not hurting is so advisable because single line
of defense is very poor against this very competitive, very
violent delta strung. I want to ask you about Cool
(05:58):
and Pal who passed away this week due to complications
from COVID. What do we know about that? Because he
was fully vaccinated. Colin Power had multiple by aloma. And
for patients and people out there who don't understand, it's
a blood cancer but which the treatments actually destroy the
plasma cells that make antibodies. So we've seen a lot
(06:22):
of evidence that people who are vaccinated but have multiple
my aloma don't respond well and make a lot of antibodies,
so their immune response is very very suppressed. Now there's
obviously T cells, but a lot of the antibodies produced
traditionally by the MR and a vaccine is much much
lower and weaker. And that's why this is even more
(06:46):
important to protect those around us who can't have a
full immune response by vaccinating by vaccine to prect our kids,
vaccinating to protect cancer patients who are aunt mounts and
antibody response as well, and again to really protect your
community is something that oftentimes is so lost in the pandemic.
(07:11):
It's not just about yourself. Oh i'm immune, I've already
had COVID. Oh i'm vaccinated. I don't need to wear
a mask. I think that kind of selfish approach has
really endangered us. And I think Colin Powell is a
perfect example. He is susceptible to COVID even after vaccine
because he has this cancer that obviously makes him very,
(07:35):
very vulnerable. And because of that, we've neglected and killed
off a lot of people that we love and value
in this world, whether it's kids or the elderly. And
I think that's the greatest shameful thing and we should
reflect on that. Are we here to only care about
ourselves in society? Are we here to also protect others
(07:56):
around us? We've got to take a quick break. We'll
be right back with Dr Bill Coup and Dr Eric
figel Ding on Recounting the pod. Welcome back to the
Recount Daily Pod, a podcast from the Recount and I
Heart Radio. I'm joined by doctor Bill Coup and Dr
Eric figel Ding, and we're talking about the latest research
(08:18):
on COVID in America. But I know a lot of
people personally who have been vaccinated and are part of
these breakthrough cases they got COVID. What do you think
it is that the CDC isn't telling us about breakthrough
cases Fifty to sixty five year old adults once a
vaccinator twenty times less likely to get COVID from lacted people.
(08:42):
That's an increadible improvement and improves the Concord trial result
that vaccines are effective in terms of preventing serious death.
But on another hand, for certain groups of people like
those over sixty five who were vast the first and
then another in Jana February, breakthroughs are service problem and
(09:06):
then now people under sextified a little bit of suffering
because vaccine a lot of thought when and for that group.
Do you believe that the CDC was forthcoming in these
breakthrough vaccinations. I think the CDC was negligent and not
tracking them as diligently as other countries. The reason we
actually know waning um is a thing is because of
(09:29):
actually Israel. Histrael's Ministry of Health has nationwide surveillance of
all breakthroughs, not just hospitalizations. CEC basically back in May
said we're not going to track breakthrough cases. We're only
going to track breakthrough hospitalizations, which again was very very
poor choice, because the transmission is what actually will allow
the virus to spread to more people. That's in a
(09:52):
certain way that they're blind spot. They said, well, transmission
doesn't matter as long as hospitalization is good. Well, we
have way to many people unprotected. We of obviously anti
vactor's vaccine hesitant, and we have children who are not vaccinated.
And of course the other thing that they didn't see
around the corner was waning and that a lot of
elderly are you know, susceptible, And this waning is significant.
(10:13):
We're not talking about like, you know, five ten percent.
We're talking about like down to less than fifty percent
efficacy against infection. And I think the CDC completely dropped
the ball. And of course, all at the same time,
you may they also said vaccinate people don't need to mask,
but I may, we already saw they were breakthrough cases
and also that vaccinated breakthrough cases even happened asymptomatically and
(10:38):
just transmit onwards to vulnerable people. And I think that
was CDC's greatest mistake. Do we know what the efficacy
of the vaccine drops off after six months? Most vaccine
it's not surprising the personal flu vaccine is because they're
designed to waning after six month, like um stal vaccines.
(11:01):
I'm not even anywhere near as effective at the COVID vaccines.
They're typically only forted to six effective and the COVID
i'm a vaccines and miracles by those standards then effective
from the beginning. But all the time they're wing and
the citizen data shows that winning. And they should have
(11:23):
released that data to the public, to scientists and to
the fterday much earlier than the athlete that we're gonna pass.
Take a quick Frank Welling right back with Dr Bill
Coo and Dr Eric figel Ding on the Recount Daily Pod.
Welcome back to the Recount Daily Pod and podcast from
(11:44):
the Recount and I Heart Radio. I'm joined by Dr
Bill Coo and Dr Eric figel Ding. We're talking about
the current state of COVID in America. I want to
ask you about children under twelve. I'm a mom of
two kids under twelve. If feels like this is taken forever,
is there a hold up here? And what would you
say to parents who are worried about vaccinating their children.
(12:08):
Kids are extremely vulnerable. Kids are not protected. There's been
a lot of misinformation that kids are practically immune. Oh,
don't worry about kids. Kids death rates are so low
and we should not use the comparison that kids are
lower risk than adults or kids are died less or
(12:29):
hospitalized less than an elderly vaccinated person because kids are
not supposed to die. Kids are not supposed to be hospitalized.
You know, twenty kids per week dying of COVID is
not morally acceptable. We recall millions of cribs and baby
toys whenever there's any one single death. And for us
(12:51):
to tolerate twenty deaths a week, in addition to the
hospitalization and the long COVID risk which are substantial, it
is just morally prisible. What do we know about the
kids vaccine? Eric, They probably won't get the same amount
as the adults get in vile This is actually very
tricky because kids doses for five to eleven, the one
that's about to be authorized and approved, is one third
(13:15):
dose of adults. So instead of the thirty microgram per
dose for fiser adults, those the five to eleven page group,
why have a ten microgram? This actually creates a logistical
hurdle because you can't just divide by three. Take adult
dose divide by three. The volume is too low according
to experts. So what they're gonna do Once the vaccine
(13:38):
for kids five to eleven are authorized and approved, they're
actually going to get a specific pediatric vaccine vials, and
these vials have to be redistributed across the country because
it was a bit of a disaster Eric the first rollout,
you know, at the beginning of the year, when the
vials first came out for adults exactly, it took a
(13:59):
while to get the distribution for these vials out and
we're gonna have to potentially repeat it and hopefully we
can get kids vaccinated the day after the CDC approves it.
But I hope that the logistical supply chain and delivery
system is up to part when kids can get these vaccines.
(14:20):
I want to ask you about monoclonal antibodies that have
been used as a treatment for COVID patients. It was
used on President Trump when he was infected in October.
How much is the treatment? Does it really work? Is
it effective in treating COVID? I think monoclo antibody is
a very effective treatment for people as a second line defense.
(14:41):
That's show not be used as a substitute for vaccines.
That's much more expensive thunder accidents, at least a hundred
times more costly for those the vaccines, which does amount
for the people it's uh, you know, one hit wonder
in many ways, and it can also lead to a
lot of mutations. So long term monoclonal antibodies, it may
(15:05):
not work months or a year from now because of
the nature that the virus will adapt to them antibody.
And so this is why vaccines are better. Because vaccines
are polyclone. It designs many attack patterns against the virus. Well,
the monoclonal antibody is only a single strike approach. Eric,
I want to ask you also about Mark's anti viral
(15:27):
oral drug. It's supposed to reduce the risk of becoming
sick or ending up in the hospital. At least three
other oral seed COVID nineteen pills are also expected to
have clinical data by the end of the year. What
are your thoughts on oral pills. I think the most
of monopayer of her um antiviral drug is very good
uh potential. It's the first dry pill anti viral that
(15:48):
actually reduces mortality. There is a slight concern though that
it's mutagenic, that it's designed to cause mutations in the
coronavirus so that it can't replicate, But I think overall
it's incredibly even more powerful than I think mon fly
anybodies because you can take this well immediately after you're infected,
(16:10):
you know, reduce hospitalization. But DONA still must one that
should not be used as a frontline replacement for vaccines.
Vaccine it's a nine percent effect of UM. The antiviral
pels are fifty percent effective. I mean it's ten times
less effective in terms of preventing death or hospitalizers and vaccines.
(16:33):
When do you think that people under sixty five will
be able in this country? In the United States to
qualify for a booster. Boosters are already quite widely available
if you are in a high risk risk factory group
under sixty five, or if you work in an occupational
setting with high exposures such as teachers or public transit
or first responders. But I think it should be much
(16:57):
more widely declared because in Israel not fully backs until
your triple backs. And I think that this weird information
approach of well, depending on your high exposure, it leaves
a lot of confusion. It's again, we're not taking the
precautionary approach to protect their young people and protecting those
(17:17):
around us who are you know, compromised. Dr Eric figel
Ding and Dr Bill Coup. I want to thank you
both so much for sharing your insights on COVID with us,
and now let's look ahead. What else is happening today?
The Senate is expected to hold a procedural vote on
the Freedom to Vote Act. The bill would set standards
(17:39):
for same day and even automatic voter registration. It would
also make Election Day, which falls on Tuesday, a public holiday.
The bill is said to have the support of fifties
Senate Democrats, but would need another ten from Republicans to
pass over filibuster by the GOP. California Representative Rocana and
celebrity Paris Hilton will hold a press conference on institutional
(18:02):
child abuse in d C this morning. The event is
a push for a federal bill of rights for children
in places like group homes and treatment facilities. Employees and
Netflix will be holding a walk out this morning to
protest the company's handling of a comedy special by Dave
Chappelle that they call transphobic. Several entertainers will appear in
(18:23):
a video p s A in support of the rally
that includes Jonathan van Ness, who appears in Netflix's Queer
I Reboot. A group of trans employees at The company
released a list of demands ahead of the walkout, which
includes investing in trans creators and an acknowledgement of Netflix's
responsibility of the harm caused by transphobic content, a point
(18:45):
that Netflix co CEO Ted Serrando's rejected in a company
wide memo last week. This is the Recount Daily Pod
podcast from the Recount Our Thanks to Dr Bill couber
To hired scientists and a former senior lecturer and researcher
at Columbia University, and Dr Eric Feigelding, epidemiologist and Senior
(19:07):
Fellow at the Federation of American Scientists, for being on
the show. And if you like this episode, I hope
you'll subscribe to the Recount Daily Pod and leave us
a rating on the Apple podcast app. I'm your Host,
Rena Ninan
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