August 30, 2023 • 43 mins
In celebration of our 100th episode, Nick turns over the mic to Peter Carlisle, Managing Director of Olympic & Action Sports at Octagon and Co-Founder of Reformed Sports, to lead the conversation about how the Reformed Sports Project came to be and their mission to help encourage families to make informed decisions. Nick and Peter discuss their commitment to advocate for a more balanced approach for kids, the pushback Nick received when he first started speaking out as a reformed sports parent, and his advice for parents feeling the pressure to conform to today’s youth sports culture.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
I'm trying through Reform Sports to help people make the
most informed decision. So you talked about bucking the system, Like,
what would give someone the confidence to feel good about
that because they're getting that pressure up and my kid
gonna miss out or you know I'm being told this. Well,
let me listen to these fifty episodes. Let me read
this newsletter. I need to have the information to be
able to know what's the best case scenario for myself
(00:25):
and my child. This is the Reform Sports Project, a
podcast about restoring healthy balance and perspective in all areas
of sports through education and advocacy. Ah this is Nick
Bonacor from the Reform Sports Podcast. Today marks are one
hundredth episode and exciting milestone for Reform Sports. I want
to thank the Reform Sports podcast team, are incredible guests
(00:46):
and all of our listeners for their continued support and
passion for helping to reform youth sports. To celebrate our
one hundred episode, we're mixing things up a little. I'm
proud to say that Peter Carlisle, Managing director of Olympics
in Action Sports for O and co founder of Reformed Sports,
is returning to the podcast. This time to interview me.
Peter and I discuss our shared commitment to advocate for
(01:08):
a better future for our kids. While the pushback I
received when I initially started speaking out about today's youth
sports culture further motivated me to start reform sports and
my advice for parents look at a buck the system
and step outside the youth sports cultural norms. Back at it.
One hundredth episode, Man, this is really special. We're kind
of flipping the script on it today. I'm going on
(01:30):
the other side of the mic. I have my man
and partner from Octagon Olympics and Action Sports, Peter Carlisle
some Meyer kind of stalked all over the country for
about three years before. I think borderlines strong army him
are guilt tripping him into getting involved. But now he's
him and his team Brooks shand Or, Drew Johnson, a
(01:50):
man of Silver, and everyone over at Octagon. Megan as Well,
thank you so much for all your help, and it's
just I'm excited to be able to kind of be
on the other side and let Peter kind of take
the reins and let's see what this looks like for
one hundredth episode. It's exciting.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Thanks Nick, Well First off, congrats on the one hundredth episode.
Come a long way over a fairly short period of
time and pretty exciting. You've grown the audience to about
five million per month, which is fantastic. And I'll tell
you I'm excited today to not just flip the roles
in terms of you being interviewed, but I think your
(02:26):
audience would love to know more about your story. You
spend one hundred episodes or ninety nine anyway getting into
their stories and sort of figuring out what makes them
tick and how that feeds into the whole youth sports
movement that you're trying to address. And you know, you're
one of the most passionate, driven people I've known, and
(02:49):
I'd like to get at what's behind that because I'm
sure it informs the work you're doing now through Performed
Sports Project. So when do you start by just, you know,
take us way back to your childhood, take us back
to your experience in youth sports.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Thank you, Peter. God. When I when I think about
and it's kind of all ties into to why I
became so passionate about, you know, youth sports and all
that is that you know, I grew up in in
a in a in a very blue collar part of
the northeast and Waterbury, Connecticut. You know, two awesome parents.
I had two older brothers. Sports was the big part
(03:23):
of our life. My wife always kids with me because
you know, she's from Ohio and you know, her parents
were very much entrenched and making sure that the foundation
in school was like, hey, let's do academics first and
and all of that. And you know, for me, it
was kind of like, uh, you know, both my parents,
God bless them, it was about being a great person
first and then sports is kind of going to be
(03:47):
the trump card and everything in our life and just
do fine in school and uh, and be a good person.
And why that's so important to me is because it
helped me get a college education. I would have never
gone to college. I hated school. I hated the academic
pece of it. Of course, I love the socialization piece
of it. But to bring it back to youth sports,
it was a big thing in my house. I have
two older brothers. One is eight years older than me,
(04:08):
one of six years older than me, so growing up
watching them play youth sports and high school sports, I
was the little kid brother, you know, the bat boy
the ball boy at all their you know, football and
baseball events, and you know, that was a big deal
in our house and in our city. They were good athletes,
and at the time, when I was seven, eight, nine, ten,
eleven years old, in my mind, I might as well
have been living with like Tom Brady and you know
(04:31):
whoever the best line back. I thought they were the
they were on the cover of the paper, they were
winning state championships. So to me, I was like, oh
my god, I live with these two superheroes, superhuman people,
and I just admired my older brothers so much. So
for me, it was a big deal. Sports was a
big part of my life. As I said, my parents
did everything they could. They didn't have a lot of means,
(04:53):
but it was a big deal for them to have
us involved being part of teams. For me, it's like
this holy grail when I look at youth sports, I
look what it provided for me and my brothers. Neither
of my parents were college educated. Me and my brothers
all have college educations. My older brother has a master's degree.
So that all was a direct result of us playing
sports growing up. None of us were, you know, big
(05:13):
time scholarship athletes. Going to Power five schools or anything.
But it helped us along the way. More importantly, it
helped us to develop the skill sets that we have
that help us in life. So for me, you know,
to bring it back my experience as I became a
parent and my kids got involved in as a lot
of the audience knows, I have six kids, sports became
(05:33):
a big part of my children's lives and my life
as a youth coach, and I started to just see
that the youth sports you know, culture that we see
today was different than what I experienced growing up. It
wasn't about the community. It wasn't about so much as
the community and the things that you extract from. It
was more about, you know, performance driven, keeping up with
(05:56):
the Joneses, early specialization, like all of these like ideology,
jeez that were never talked about, at least I never
heard growing up. And I actually got sucked into it
a little bit before you get to that, what was
it like when you were a kid?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
I mean, were you you're playing football and baseball or
were you playing other sports.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
I played organized football from the time I was seven
years old. I played organized baseball from the time I
was seven years old. Just recreation. So with seasonal of course,
I'm in the Northeast, so everything was seasonal. Basketball was
just something I played in the backyard. It was something
I played in the neighborhood at the parks. I loved basketball.
I wasn't particularly the greatest at it. Baseball, I always
knew right away was my favorite sport. I loved it.
(06:37):
I think I performed well at it. Same thing with football,
But I didn't necessarily love the physicality of football, even
though I played it all the way through high school.
I was a quarterback. I didn't particularly love getting smacked
around a little bit. So I never really had a
desire to go beyond high school basketball. While I loved
so much and I played at CYO in high school,
I think I loved it so much because there was
(06:57):
no expectations I can like go out there and be athletic,
be a rebounder and kind of facilitate and just have fun.
And I really looked forward to after football season kind
of I always looked at basketball as like this downtime.
You know, I'm gonna play, have fun, I'm gonna stay
athletic and competitive as simultaneously gear up for baseball. Was
always like this mindset of I gotta get ready for
the baseball season. So you know, looking back on it, it
(07:19):
was this free play, this recreation, this stuff. But I
also learned playing basketball as like a rec player, like
how to be a just a team guy. You know.
In football, was always the starting quarterback from the time
every team I ever played on, I was a starting quarterback.
And in baseball was always a starting catcher. So I
felt like I always had these expectations, not put on
(07:39):
me by anyone else, but intrinsically, like I wanted to
be the guy and all of that. Whereas basketball I
didn't care as much about that. It was all about
having fun. So that was my life, my entire life.
It was either I was either following my brothers around
to watch them play football and baseball, and then when
it was my time, it was like all right. And
I remember one of the biggest things is they want
(08:00):
the state championship in high school was the first one
in the city for like fifty years, and it was
like a big deal, and and and and no one
in our city had ever won a high school baseball
state championship. There was six high schools in the city.
No one ever won. So my goal was I got
a match with my brothers. By the time I graduated,
I gotta be on a team that wins the first
state championship. And I swear to god, that was like
(08:20):
something I thought about from the time I was like
in sixth grade all the way through and then we
ended up, you know, my senior high school winning one,
and that was a big deal today still to this point,
it's why I'm such a big believer in the importance
of high school and scholastic sports. It's like, those are
some of the most I shouldn't even say some there
are probably the most enjoyable moments of my athletic time.
Even though I played in college and even a year
(08:41):
overseas professionally in baseball, like that senior year in particular
of high school, I still have good friends, but yeah,
just had the bantering, the camaraderie, the relationships that I developed.
Those are so sacred to me. So all those pieces
kind of you know, really spawned my ideology once I
saw my kids getting into sports and the importance of sports.
So that's I mean, that's high level, you know, high
(09:03):
school sports for sure, and yet you had the space
to play three sports through high school, essentially including pickup.
And I think that's different than what we see now
for sure. I mean, and I'm older than you are,
I'm fifty five, and you know, every athlete played three
sports and then played other sports pick up, and there
(09:25):
was plenty of space to do that. But that's different now,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
I mean, as a parent, how do you see those differences?
And I presume that's part of why you grew frustrated
and decided, hey, I got to do something about this.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
I'm glad you brought that up. Everyone I ever competed against,
whether it was a football, baseball, or basketball, the best
of the best, you know, played other sports. I could
think of you know Tony Ortiz, guy who was the
Gatory player of the Year in football, who who went
on a play linebacker at Nebraska. He was a track
All American, played basketball, played everything. Steve Coughlin, who you
(10:01):
know a lot of people may know from you know, ESPN, Stanford, Steve.
I played against him in football and Sonia High School.
To dude was he was a freak and every sport
he ever played, basketball, baseball, football, So that was just
what everyone did. And today everything's turned into year round, right,
everything's turned into year and now I can't I like
to go on the record and just say I can't
(10:22):
tell you that if I grew up in the Southeast,
I wouldn't have played fall baseball like I might have,
you know, by the time I got to high school.
I'm glad I didn't because it was just too damn
cold to play baseball up in the Northeast at that time.
But once I got to high school, I probably if
I had that option, I might have, you know, at
that point. But yeah, I mean that was the norm.
And it's tough today to navigate with your kids. And
(10:43):
my wife and I not that we buck the system,
you know, because I gotta tell you, man, initially, I
never I never felt pressure to like do that. I
took it personally, I guess, you know, when I started
hearing and this is what happened. I was coaching, you know,
my kids teams, and I was voted to be like
the all Star coach at seven, U, eight, U nine,
(11:04):
you And that was a lot of fun. But that's
when the intensity kind of picks up. It's kind of
a commitment over the summer, Like the kids get voted
to the All Star team, and the intensity is it's
about trying to compete to win at that point, and
that's what kind of everyone signs up for, Like it's
more of a commitment for All Stars, which was great,
great experience, but that's when you kind of start. I
started hearing the the chirping about, well, let's take this
(11:25):
to the next level, and let's keep this team together,
and in order to get to the next level, you
got to play one sport year round. That I would
hear parents saying that's what I'm being told, and I'd
be like, well, who the hell is telling you that?
Because I played with guys who who got to the
big leagues, who who never did that? And I started
reaching out to coaches and guys that I know from
(11:45):
my experience who still are out there right now, and
I'm like, hey, am I the only one that sees
some really interesting ideology? And it was just echoed to
me like, yeah, we're seeing it, We've been seeing it
for years, You're spot on. We're seeing at the collegiate level.
It's like transforming of like really opened my eyes to
these feelings I was having about something not being right
(12:06):
in youth sports. It validated it, and I'm the type
of person where so what ended up happening was I
wasn't really on social media at all until like twenty
fifteen or sixteen. So my wife and I, you know, Amy,
got connected and she's like, get on Facebook. I'm like,
all right, whatever, and then I started posting and I
whoever hears this, they may be like shit, I didn't
(12:28):
realize he was doing that. I intentionally posted some things
that I knew people were going to see who were
kind of close to me, that I was probably gonna
maybe piss off, you know. I started putting some opinions
out there, and it was it was intentional. I wanted
to see if I was going to get a reaction
quite frankly, but it was calculated and it got some
some people hot, and I was like, man, there's something
to this. Like I'm gonna keep pushing this, and then,
(12:50):
you know, I once I hear the pushback, that's all
I need is a little gasoline, and I'm like, well, screwed,
And this is in my head. I'm going screw you.
I'm gonna prove everyone wrong and I'm just gonna no
one's gonna stop me. And and that's kind of what happened.
And then of course, when I have those things going
on in my head, I need validation, so I reach
out to people who I know no more than me,
(13:11):
and when they validated it, it's guns blazon And that's
kind of what I did. I had no idea, So
talk about a one hundredth episode. I don't know if
I ever listened to a podcast before I started this,
So it's pretty crazy.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah, I mean, in ninety nine of them, you know,
talking to you know, real stakeholders in the sports industry,
like you know, the best of the best athletes, the
best coaches, and you know, the overwhelming majority seemed to
be agreeing with your perspective. I mean seemed to be
you know, encouraging diversified you know, sports activities, time and
(13:46):
space to play other sports and cross training and so
on and so forth, not only for you know, the
healthy balance as a person, but also because these athletes
and coaches actually think that it produces, you know, better performance.
And I think that's that's the irony, because all of
you know, these players and coaches that are at the
(14:07):
level that these parents you're describing are hoping their kids
get to. They're saying don't specialize, and yet this whole
youth sports movement is accelerating towards specialization, and there's just
this massive disconnect. And I think that's sort of what
brought us together in terms of like trying to shed
(14:27):
some light on that disconnect and trying to trying to encourage,
you know, the restoration of balance basically.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
You know, as you were just describing that, I made
me think, like, I'm not someone who played at the
highest of highest levels, right, I'd played with guys who
got to the highest level. But to me, it's almost
a common sense thing. Like I was the youngest of three.
I graduated high school when I was seventeen. I didn't
turn eighteen, so I was already a freshman, you know,
(14:56):
on campus at college. So in hindsight, I'm like, and
I wish, you know, I wish I was a year
older or whatever, But it ended up being a blessing.
I guess the reason I'm saying that is like, there's
so many people out there trying to create this narrative,
you know, this narrative of you know, one way, and
there's there's something to be said about leaving something in
(15:19):
the tank. I mean, I think everyone that listens to
this remembers, whether it's their baseball experience, the wrestling experience, basketball, football,
doesn't matter, that kid who was the best kid in
their mind in the country at ten to eleven years old,
and by the time they get to high school they
weren't even playing anymore. And I specifically remember several in
baseball who were throwing harder than everybody else, and unfortunately,
(15:40):
back in the late eighties early nineties, and you know,
there wasn't as much education on armcare, and the best
pitchers would throw like every game and their arms would
blow out, you know. So I'm glad that we've caught up,
you know, from a baseball standpoint to arm care and
monitoring pit pitch counts and all that. But everyone remembers
that kid that was the stud at that early age
(16:02):
who phased out. So to me, it was just normal
to think, like if I'm a college coach and I
never coached a day in college, but it's like, why
wouldn't I want a kid who has this broad, diversified
competitive background, who's excellent in this sport but has never
locked in on it. What happens when I get here
or she here and they do lock in on it,
(16:23):
how much? How much is still left in the tank
from an upside perspective, So to me, that just made
so much sense. And more importantly than that, I've known
kids who have burnt out, you know, who got tired
of it, who were doing it all year own, who
had external pressure, you know, who had parents that were
really bearing down on them, or you know, whoever was
bearing down on them, and they got tired of it,
(16:45):
and they were so talented. And then the more of
these conversations I had, I realized that that was a
common theme, and it was like, how is this not
common sense? But it's it's really not. I actually remember
when I first started posting the whole you know, the
importance with multi sport, and someone would always commat I
don't remember who it is, but anyway, he would always say,
(17:05):
you're just pushing the agenda, or you're you're trying to
help the multi sport you know, revenue stream, you know
you're trying to you You're wrong, You're simply pushing an agenda.
And I would go agenda like this is how. It
never dawned on me that that can actually be someone's perspective,
because to me, it just made so much sense, like balance,
and why would you want your kid? You know they
(17:28):
say early to early to ripe, early to rot, you
know what I mean. So it's like the longer the delay.
And then I found out from all these interviews like
David Epstein, all these different coaches, like there's science, there's
actually science behind like delaying gratification, like from a physical standpoint,
from a mental health standpoint, like allowing. And it's tough.
(17:48):
You know, it's tough as a parent because your kid
will say to you, I really want to do this,
But I always go back to the quote I read
about no more Garcia Para. My kids want to eat
ice cream every meal, but I have to be the
one to tell them no, you know, I can't let
him do it. And I think the same thing is
said needs to be done and approach in sports.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yeah, you see posts occasionally where you know an eight
year old has committed to a college program. I mean,
how can an eight year old know that he wants
to go to college, where he wants to go to college,
or even what sport he may want to play in college.
I find that to be unrealistic. And so to your point,
(18:26):
if you're a coach, a college coach, and you're you know,
you're valuing different approaches at the youth sports level. I
think when you get to the age of eighteen and
you know why you want to play a particular sport
and you know what drives you to get better at
that sport, then that is much more reliable than the
(18:48):
kid who has only played the one sport was told
that that's what you ought to do. And you know
you've mentioned burnout for sure, burnout, but also just in
terms of the drive that you have understanding what you're
going to get out of that sport. I think an
athlete that has come to it on his or her
own is going to be I think much better position
(19:12):
to you know, play at the collegiate level or just
to take the sport as far as they can. You know,
I think we all have seen maybe not all I
know you have because your client is Michael Phelps, but
like and I'm sure you've seen it in your own,
you know, athletic career yourself. We've all seen the outliers.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
You know, I saw and competed against kids from an
early age and now even as a father, my kids
will compete and I'm like, oh my god. We all
know when we see a kid that's different, you know
that really at like twelve, thirteen, fourteen, you're like, wow,
that just looks different, that sounds different. But those kids
are outlined my kids. You know, my son Mark's who's
going to be seven, he takes piano lessons, right, he
(19:53):
just likes it. Right, He's taking little piano lessons. You know,
he's not the next Beethoven, right. But my point is
how many parents take their kids to piano lessons or
gymnastics lessons or sign them up for baseball and get told, wow,
your kid might be special. You know your kid if
we do this at this year, you know whatever it is,
(20:14):
if we start coming in for private lessons and doing
this like there's a chance that they can go like
that's I'm sorry. But the outliers aren't that they're outliers
for reason. There's not that many kids that are the
next Michael Phelps, that are the next you know whoever,
Walker Jenkins who got just drafted down here from from
(20:36):
you know, Southport, North Carolina, who we had on the podcast,
who got drafted fifth overall in the Major League Baseball Draft.
You know, a month or two ago. Everyone knew at
twelve or thirteen, when you saw that kid, it was different.
You know, they're different. Now it's easy to sell a
parent that their kid can be different. And got I
got to tell you, man, I know a little bit
(20:57):
about selling. I know a little bit about marketing. Like
if I wanted to go into that business, that's exactly
what I would do. And so so cautionary tale parents,
like that's what I would do. Like I would tell everyone, man,
if you lock in on you know Seth Pepper, right,
he was a guest on our on our podcast. He's
my brother in law. He was, I guess a millisecond
away from being Olympian. He's a Hall of Famer University
(21:19):
of Arizona swimmer, all these things. He brings his daughter
to gymnastics, and you know, a couple of years ago
he told me, I think he mentioned on the podcast.
He's like, they pulled me aside and he goes, Nick,
they started telling me like, hey, she's special, and he
stopped him. He goes, hey, I know, and he said
I wasn't rude, but I let him know, like I
know what it's like to be in this arena and
to know, like, my child is going to have a childhood.
(21:42):
I know it, you know, and I appreciate what you're saying.
But he stopped because of his experience, he was able
to stop them in their tracks and kind of not
take the bait. Not to say that that person was
coming at him with bad intentions, because that's not always
the case, But how do we know who do we
have to weed people out? There are people with a
that aren't in your kid's best interest, and as a parent,
(22:03):
it's very easy to take debait. And what parent wants
to be the one to not give their kid the
best opportunity. So I think that's what people are juggling
is the bad apples, right, those who don't have their
kids or their family's best interests in mine versus those
who who really are trying to look out for the
best interest. And it's borderline like it's very easy to
pray on a parent's emotions. And that's what kind of
(22:24):
pissed me off in the very beginning. I'm like, man,
if there's one place we don't want to taint, like,
don't taint youth sports because it was so important to me.
When we return, I open up about a time I
took my son's youth baseball game a little too seriously
and reflect on what I would do differently with the
knowledge and tools I have today. Where we left off,
(22:46):
Peter and I were about to talk about empowering parents
to make informed decisions and the positive impact these choices
can have not only on your kid, but also on
your entire family.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
I mean, I think that you know, as a culture,
we don't ask ourselves frequently enough what's the point of sports?
What's the purpose? What's the value? We just assume that
if if you can, if you're if you're the parent,
and a coach comes up to you and says your
kids special, then you should throw everything aside and that
(23:17):
becomes the priority. But why, I mean the clients that
I have, these are clients that actually can make a
living by being that good at sports. But they're like,
if you look at the statistics, I mean, it's it's
not the wisest choice to take that path because so
few athletes can get a college scholarship, can be paid
(23:39):
to play that sport. And so if you think about it,
whether it's you know, gymnastics or hitting a baseball or whatever,
those skills only have you know, such a lifespan, right,
I mean, when was the last time you, you know,
derived any value out of hitting a baseball?
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Right?
Speaker 2 (23:56):
But you had an amazing experience. You learned these lessons,
you applied it to your life, and as you say,
it helped you to get an education, even though that
might not have been a scholarship situation because it was
D three. But for baseball, maybe you wouldn't have gone
to college. There are many different reasons why sports is valuable,
(24:16):
but I don't think we think about those things and
really reflect upon them. In my and this goes to
sort of how we came together. But to me, I
don't know anybody that has gotten more out of sports
than me. I'm sure that there are plenty of people
out there that would say the very same thing, which
is terrific, right, But for me, there's nothing I enjoy more.
(24:38):
I enjoyed it as I was a kid. I played
competitively all the way through college, and then I kept
on playing sports. I still play sports now and I've
made a living in sports. And so when I had kids,
what I wanted for them was a similar experience. And
so you know, that meant playing multiple sports. That meant
(24:58):
you know, exposure to all sorts of different things, and
it didn't mean, well, let's see how far you can
go in any particular sport and let's specialize. And what
I found was that you had to buck the system
in order to do that. It was very, very hard.
Up here in Maine, I played ice hockey. My kids
were into ice hockey. Had I built the rink in
(25:19):
the backyard, I mean it was it was great. And
because hockey up here is probably it dominates the schedule. Mean,
it's like nine months out of the year, and you
can you can do twelve months, but even at the
age of like seven, it's you know, it starts up
in August and you're not done until like May. And
because my kids wanted to play soccer as well, and
(25:42):
I wanted them to play soccer, like I had to
basically battle with the hockey program in order to, you know,
create space for them to play soccer. And and it
was really impossible because even if you were able to
do that, the kids were going to be disadvantaged within
the hockey program. And so so I found that to
be like completely nonsensical that like what I saw to
(26:06):
be a very healthy approach to sports, and and what
my athletes and the coaches that I work with, many
of whom you know, are at the level of the
people that you've spoken to for the ninety nine episodes
of your podcast. They would all say, yeah, that's what
you want. You want you want them to play at
that age, certainly multiple sports. And despite you know, my perspective,
(26:29):
I really was very very hard to like provide them
that experience. And in the end, because they did love
to play hockey, you know, and they played with these
other sports. What was the sport that they bailed on
in high school hockey? And when you asked why, they
were burnt out, they were over it. The fun was gone.
It was because you had to do it. Fortunately, they
(26:49):
found other sports. But I think we're doing our kids
a massive disservice in just reflexively like jumping into the
flow and saying, okay, well, they have to specialize. This
is what we're being told, this is how the system
is set up, and forcing these kids to choose between
sports at the age of seven. And unfortunately, because that
(27:09):
is the momentum of the system, we've got to advocate
for change. We've got to like change the mindset of
the parents, of the coaches, of the administrators, of the leagues,
of the schools, and it's a real uphill battle because
as I've seen it all the way through, you know,
the high school level, that imbalance is just baked into it.
(27:32):
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Oh my god, I mean absolutely, And I think it's
important to understand, like there's not one way, and that
was one of my main driving forces starting event. There's
not one way to go about this, right, Everyone's situation
is different, and we're not I'm not trying to shove
an agenda down someone's throat. However, just to your point,
and you kind of mentioned it earlier, like we're trying.
(27:56):
I'm trying, through reformed sports to help people make the
most informed decision. Right, So you talked about fucking the system,
Like what would give someone the confidence to feel good
about that, right because they're getting that pressure of and
my kid gonna miss out or you know, I'm being
told this. Well, let me listen to these fifty episodes,
let me let me, let me listen to what Nix says,
(28:16):
let me read these blocks, let me read this newsletter,
so I can make the most informed decision, Like I
don't have to listen to to Johnny uh, Johnny X
minor leaguer, Who's who's strong arm And I say strong army.
It's probably not, but he could be strong arming me
into making me feel as though I need to do
baseball year round, whatever the sport is, it's every freaking sport.
(28:37):
It's like I need to have the information to be
able to know what's the best case scenario for myself
as a parent and my child and my family. And
I know my wife and I we have six kids,
so like we are limited to what we can do
from a time management perspective. Now, our oldest, you know,
just went to college and is wrestling there, and my
others are like entrenched in youth sports. Right now, I've
(28:58):
got two again, a five and a seven year old
that are just doing little kid soccer, and then my
son's gonna my nine year old's gonna do fall baseball.
He'll he loves basketball, baseball, across everything. But like we're limited, right,
so we can't do all into one kid, and I
don't want to. The minute we start feeling like really overwhelmed,
and we're overwhelmed because we have a lot of kids
(29:20):
that should be a signal. Like I see people all
the time who once their kids get to middle school
and they can play at least down here in wimingto
North Carolina, they can start playing middle school baseball. So
now they're on this is like a normal situation. They're
on a rec baseball team, they're on a travel baseball team,
and then they start playing middle school baseball. They're on
three teams at the same that's three different schedules. That's
(29:41):
three different you know, practice schedules, game schedules, you know,
running around less than two each his own. But at
some point, if it's gonna make you miserable, make it
like you got to think about it, and that might
be okay for somebody, but it also might run someone
into the ground. So the point is is knowing that
coaches at the collegiate level, professionals have the information that
(30:03):
we've talked about in podcasts that can tell you you
don't need to feel the pressure, you don't need to
play year round, you don't have to play baseball whatever
the sport is, all year long, from the time that
you're ten pill whatever. And then there are some that
will say once you get to a certain age, once
you get into high school. Once you get into freshman's
sophomore year, as you're getting closer and you really have
a desire to playing college, that may be a time
(30:24):
to hey, I'm playing three sports, now it's time to
go down to two, you know type thing. Or maybe hey,
I might get drafted or I might have a chance,
like I'm going to start training during the year and
playing baseball year round, And there's data and science behind that.
So it's important for people to understand, like we want
you to make the most informed decision. How many times
you go buy a car and you're shopping, you're looking
(30:46):
at the fact checks and all this stuff and pricing
and do the same thing like like look up this organization,
Like look up that organization, find out what are they about?
Are the coaches about development? Like what are they about?
You know, I think it's important for people to make
an active interest and vetting the folks who are going
to be leaders of their child throughout their their sport process.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense making
an informed decision. I mean, so many parents, will you know,
complain to me about this, the pressure that they feel
to do all, you know, to play on three different
teams to spend the money to do the travel program,
and that they have no time to go on a
family vacation, let's say, and that they're afraid that if
(31:31):
they don't do that that their kid's going to be disadvantaged.
I mean, what advice do you have, you know, to
those parents, because if they're trying to make an informed decision,
that decision is like do I disadvantage my kid so
that this coach, you know, he's out of favor with
this coach that also coaches maybe the school team, or
has some other involvement in the community, and there's there
(31:54):
is a tremendous pressure. It's tough to make that decision. So,
having been through it, what's your advice to those parents?
Speaker 1 (31:59):
That's a question. But my perspective is skewed from my
personal experience. And why is that because I grew up
in the Northeast, Because I'm going to be forty four
years old in a couple of weeks. I didn't grow
up with endless amounts of time to play sport. I
wasn't on multiple teams. So for me, like I remember
(32:19):
we were on a we went to like I don't
even know where this is Hampton Beach and now we're
on this little vacation. It's like a boardwalk there or something.
That was like big living for me. But anyway we're there.
My brother had you know, my brother is going to
be a senior. They were starting like spring football or
something like that or summer football whatever, and it was
important in my family. You're going home like you're going
you're going to be a captain. You're gone like you're
(32:41):
going to football. And my brother wanted to so from
for us the way I grew up, if you were
on a team. Now, well again, we didn't take vacations.
Like I said, that was like a few times in
my life. I can remember going to Hampton Beach. It
wasn't like a luxurious vacation, but we wouldn't schedule them
if there were big things from our athletic like that was.
I will tell you, Like today kids are on so
(33:03):
many teams, there's so many tournaments. Everything's watered down that
like who cares if you missed a timbucktoo local tournament,
Like it's different. It's different today than it was. It
is water down And I don't know if it's good
or bad, but I know for me, and what I
would be for my kids, Like my son's a wrestler,
My kids are older kids are wrestlers, Like, then that's
(33:23):
their sport, that's their sports that they take seriously. I
would never advocate for them to miss something for their
high school team, Like I would never know you're doing that.
So I think it's a it's a juggling act, but
I think it's finding. Like for me, it's like whatever
sport is in season, right, Let's say you play football
and baseball and you're in and it's spring, and I've
(33:44):
talked to coaches who have mentioned this. Or if you're
on a travel team and it's during high school, right,
let's say it's travel and high school baseball. Travel coaches
have told me, when it's high school season, high school's
priority and they talk to their kids about that. I
know two coaches that have told me that, who run
pretty I've interviewed, and both have had pretty nationally known organizations.
(34:04):
Andy Parton and Jeff Petty have said when it's high
school season, that takes precedence over travel, and then comes summertime,
like the flip flop is there. But it's like those
are conversations we have with the parents. So how I
navigate is is like, if you're in season. What I
mean by in season. If I'm a parent and I
pull my kid off of a tournament and it's in season,
(34:27):
this is just my perspective, right or wrong. I think
I'm screwing over the rest of the kids. That's just me.
Now again, I think that there's age appropriateness seven, eight,
nine years old, unless you're trying to get to the
Little League worldshit, whatever the hell. You know, if it's
very important and you signed up for this short timeframe,
then commit to it. But if it's if you're seven
years old and your family wants to go on a
(34:47):
vacation and you're going to miss a rec ball game,
the freaking missed a rec ball game? Does that make
any sense?
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Yeah, I think you're right. High school's kind of a
different situation. I think because to your point, I mean,
I think as you get through this, you know, you
can make an informed decision and you start to you know,
kids understand why they want to play a particular sport
over another, and you're also making a commitment to the
team in the program. But when you're ten years old,
there is like there's a tendency now for ten year
(35:15):
olds even to play year round, for ten year olds
to play on multiple teams, right, so you know, you
could be playing on a travel team, you could be playing,
you know, doing a clinic, you could be playing on
the school team, even if it's off season. And at
ten years old for a parent to be shelling out
that money and to feel as though if they don't
(35:37):
make that a priority and somehow accommodate this child's you know,
three different teams at the age of ten, that they'll
be doing their kid a disservice and that the kid
will have a disadvantage in that sport. And coaches it's
like you can say you're going to pull them from
you know, to go on vacation. Well, I can tell
you the coach won't like that, right, yeah, I mean
(35:57):
other parents won't like that, Other kids won't like that.
So there is real pressure at that level. And if
you have more than one kid, you just think about
the you know, the commitment required of a family to
accommodate that level of Frankly, it is specialization at the
age of ten. And I think that when what I
hear from parents is they take issue with that. But
(36:20):
they don't know what to do about it because they
as parents, they want to do right by their child,
and all of the signs suggests that they need to
allow for this kid to participate on three teams at
the same time and to buck that system. They're afraid
that they're pulling their kid out of the sport essentially,
(36:43):
and I guess that's where I don't know what to
tell them, because you know, in my mind, you have
to change the culture, you have to change the system
so that that that's not such a problem if your
kid doesn't play three sports. But I do think that
there's a tendency nowadays for that to be commonplace and
for parents to feel real pressure that they need to
(37:05):
allow for their kids to do that.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
So I remember, hence the name reform. So I remember
when my son Tyler was seven and it was all
he's playing wreck baseball and it's actually kind of it
doesn't bother me, but I learned from it my dad
at Stage four camp. She end up passing away like
five months later, but like he was down there, this
was a vacation my brother and my whole family would
put together go down a Myrtle, whole family together and
(37:29):
that's only an hour and a half from me. And
we had a wreck baseball game and I wasn't I
was an assistant coach, but I was like, man, this
is a great opportunity for my dad to go see
Tyler play. You know, chance Starr is going to pass
and YadA, YadA YadA, and you know, I remember my
brother being like, dude, miss the game, Like what are
you doing? Like he's seven, Like why are you going
(37:50):
to drag dad up there? I'm like, no, no, no, no,
he can't miss the game, like dad wants to see it.
And my dad, you wouldn't tell me he didn't want
to trun an hour and a half to go watch
the seven you machine pitch baseball game. But rest as shirt.
I clearly I'm talking about it because it bothers me.
But yeah I did that, you know what I mean?
And for no other reason than I thought, like you don't.
(38:12):
But like my perspective has changed. I would never do that,
not just because my dad was sick with cancer, but
because no one gives a shit about a seven U
baseball game. No one cares about an eight U baseball game.
No one cares like I have a seventeen year old. Now, yeah,
when you're in that moment, it's a little bit different,
you know, especially your first kid. I know, I made
my most mistakes with my older kids, right, think, you know,
(38:34):
in many ways, Thank god I get a chance to
write the ship a little bit in some ways. Right,
But that's a good example of me taking it a
little bit too serious. And I'm not the only one.
Like I thought I was doing the right thing, Like no, no,
we made a commitment. We got made a commitment to
a seven game. My son played like an inning, like
it wasn't even a big deal. But the point is
there has to be rational perspective. If I am jeopardizing
(38:54):
a vacation, you know, that incorporates my entire family, and
it's disruptive, Like that's probably making it more about me.
And that's what I did. Wasn't my son beaten down
the wall? Go I really want to go to this game?
No idea. So that's to me as an example of
kind of the distorted thinking that you can get wrapped
up in and kind of living vicariously through your kid.
(39:17):
You know, like my ego at one point was tied
into it, and that's a hard thing to recognize. When
you're caught up in it. But it's a stupid story.
But to give it, I would never do that again.
I'll put it do that one.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Well, when nine year olds are committing to play in college,
you know, as a parent, you've got to be able
to say, well, that's great, but I don't need to
feel as though something that my kid should be doing.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Yeah, And that's the thing. You look on social media,
it's like, well, so and so is getting offer at twelve,
like we can't miss this eight nine new game, And
you know, it sounds as we're now with my perspective,
it's like, it sounds kind of ludicrous to think that,
but it's very, very real and it's emotion that people
are feeling on a daily basis.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
So yeah, and I think that, you know, my advice
on that would be listen to reform sports podcasts. Listen
to them, listen to the coaches, listen to the athletes,
and from all of that you will understand why it's
not important for your child to commit to play a
particular sport at a particular school at the age of twelve.
(40:21):
And that's available now. I mean, it's like I think
that you know, going back to Reform Sports Project. I
think that that's the work that you've done.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
I mean, that's.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Ninety nine podcasts, ninety nine perspectives, and it's available, and
to me, that's a great service to parents, to kids,
to coaches, and you know, all you have to do
is listen to these you know, these are people that
have lived it, that understand it, and you can, I think,
derive some I don't know, some strength, and it'll empower
(40:53):
parents to make that hard decision, even though in the
moment it may feel as though you know you're sort
of disadvantaging your child because all of the other parents,
you know, are signing their kids up for three different
teams and pouring all of their time and money into
those programs. You can make an informed decision based on
(41:14):
a different perspective, and I think that's really important in
terms of what you've done through Reformed Sports Project. You know,
it's funny, this is a question I would ask to
a parent. You know, obviously we're not going to get
an answer her, but it's something to think about it. It's
like you're bringing your kids to a school. You know,
maybe you're choosing which school to you send your kids,
and maybe you have to send them to.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
A certain school. Who knows? But do you do some
due diligence? You know, do you figure out the pros
and cons of that school? You know a lot of
people are very conscientious of their diet, especially the food
they give their kids. Is that something? Do you look
up the data? Do you find out the information? Do
you try to figure out so you can make the
most informed decision? Can you make a house purchase, you
make a car purchase? You know, you make it a
(41:54):
financial decision of any sort. I would think most people
who are concerned about the result of that, or I
have a vested interest, would try to gather as much
information to make the most informed decision. Don't just sign
your kid up for a team because you know, Johnny
Appleseed's parents said, you know, oh the coach is great.
(42:14):
Like do your homework, do your due diligence. Listen to
the pod find out perspective. Because the guests that we
have on have resumes, they have legit resumes at the
highest levels. That would give you insight for free, you know,
So why wouldn't you take advantage of that? You know,
why wouldn't you want access to that information to just
(42:36):
if anything else, be able to have a perspective and
the opportunity when you get to a crossroad, you know,
to be able to know which way you should turn,
because you only get one shot. And let's face it,
it all starts at home, you know, with parents and guardians.
You know, with the influence that we have on the kids.
But what are the next people that are around it? Right,
they're teachers, their coaches. Don't ever underestimate the impact of
(42:59):
a it could make or break. I have some coaches
that have unbelievable relationships to this day twenty five thirty
years later, and I have some I wouldn't want to
be within a half a mile of And that's okay,
But don't underestimate the impact a coach can have on
a kid. Find out the information, find out the data,
and I think we have a library of content that
(43:22):
can help you do that. Thanks for joining us for
our one hundredth episode. Peter and I continue our conversation
next week, where we dive further into our goals for
reform Sports and the future of the youth sports industry.
Thanks for listening to the Reform Sports Podcast. If you've
enjoyed this episode, we would appreciate it if you took
a moment to rate and review our podcast. As we
work to grow our community of supporters and advocates for
(43:44):
more reform sports content, please subscribe to our newsletter and
blog at Reformsports Project dot com. You can also follow
us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn.
I'm trying through Reform Sports to help people make the
most informed decision. So you talked about bucking the system, Like,
what would give someone the confidence to feel good about
that because they're getting that pressure up and my kid
gonna miss out or you know I'm being told this. Well,
let me listen to these fifty episodes. Let me read
this newsletter. I need to have the information to be
able to know what's the best case scenario for myself
(00:25):
and my child. This is the Reform Sports Project, a
podcast about restoring healthy balance and perspective in all areas
of sports through education and advocacy. Ah this is Nick
Bonacor from the Reform Sports Podcast. Today marks are one
hundredth episode and exciting milestone for Reform Sports. I want
to thank the Reform Sports podcast team, are incredible guests
(00:46):
and all of our listeners for their continued support and
passion for helping to reform youth sports. To celebrate our
one hundred episode, we're mixing things up a little. I'm
proud to say that Peter Carlisle, Managing director of Olympics
in Action Sports for O and co founder of Reformed Sports,
is returning to the podcast. This time to interview me.
Peter and I discuss our shared commitment to advocate for
(01:08):
a better future for our kids. While the pushback I
received when I initially started speaking out about today's youth
sports culture further motivated me to start reform sports and
my advice for parents look at a buck the system
and step outside the youth sports cultural norms. Back at it.
One hundredth episode, Man, this is really special. We're kind
of flipping the script on it today. I'm going on
(01:30):
the other side of the mic. I have my man
and partner from Octagon Olympics and Action Sports, Peter Carlisle
some Meyer kind of stalked all over the country for
about three years before. I think borderlines strong army him
are guilt tripping him into getting involved. But now he's
him and his team Brooks shand Or, Drew Johnson, a
(01:50):
man of Silver, and everyone over at Octagon. Megan as Well,
thank you so much for all your help, and it's
just I'm excited to be able to kind of be
on the other side and let Peter kind of take
the reins and let's see what this looks like for
one hundredth episode. It's exciting.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Thanks Nick, Well First off, congrats on the one hundredth episode.
Come a long way over a fairly short period of
time and pretty exciting. You've grown the audience to about
five million per month, which is fantastic. And I'll tell
you I'm excited today to not just flip the roles
in terms of you being interviewed, but I think your
(02:26):
audience would love to know more about your story. You
spend one hundred episodes or ninety nine anyway getting into
their stories and sort of figuring out what makes them
tick and how that feeds into the whole youth sports
movement that you're trying to address. And you know, you're
one of the most passionate, driven people I've known, and
(02:49):
I'd like to get at what's behind that because I'm
sure it informs the work you're doing now through Performed
Sports Project. So when do you start by just, you know,
take us way back to your childhood, take us back
to your experience in youth sports.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Thank you, Peter. God. When I when I think about
and it's kind of all ties into to why I
became so passionate about, you know, youth sports and all
that is that you know, I grew up in in
a in a in a very blue collar part of
the northeast and Waterbury, Connecticut. You know, two awesome parents.
I had two older brothers. Sports was the big part
(03:23):
of our life. My wife always kids with me because
you know, she's from Ohio and you know, her parents
were very much entrenched and making sure that the foundation
in school was like, hey, let's do academics first and
and all of that. And you know, for me, it
was kind of like, uh, you know, both my parents,
God bless them, it was about being a great person
first and then sports is kind of going to be
(03:47):
the trump card and everything in our life and just
do fine in school and uh, and be a good person.
And why that's so important to me is because it
helped me get a college education. I would have never
gone to college. I hated school. I hated the academic
pece of it. Of course, I love the socialization piece
of it. But to bring it back to youth sports,
it was a big thing in my house. I have
two older brothers. One is eight years older than me,
(04:08):
one of six years older than me, so growing up
watching them play youth sports and high school sports, I
was the little kid brother, you know, the bat boy
the ball boy at all their you know, football and
baseball events, and you know, that was a big deal
in our house and in our city. They were good athletes,
and at the time, when I was seven, eight, nine, ten,
eleven years old, in my mind, I might as well
have been living with like Tom Brady and you know
(04:31):
whoever the best line back. I thought they were the
they were on the cover of the paper, they were
winning state championships. So to me, I was like, oh
my god, I live with these two superheroes, superhuman people,
and I just admired my older brothers so much. So
for me, it was a big deal. Sports was a
big part of my life. As I said, my parents
did everything they could. They didn't have a lot of means,
(04:53):
but it was a big deal for them to have
us involved being part of teams. For me, it's like
this holy grail when I look at youth sports, I
look what it provided for me and my brothers. Neither
of my parents were college educated. Me and my brothers
all have college educations. My older brother has a master's degree.
So that all was a direct result of us playing
sports growing up. None of us were, you know, big
(05:13):
time scholarship athletes. Going to Power five schools or anything.
But it helped us along the way. More importantly, it
helped us to develop the skill sets that we have
that help us in life. So for me, you know,
to bring it back my experience as I became a
parent and my kids got involved in as a lot
of the audience knows, I have six kids, sports became
(05:33):
a big part of my children's lives and my life
as a youth coach, and I started to just see
that the youth sports you know, culture that we see
today was different than what I experienced growing up. It
wasn't about the community. It wasn't about so much as
the community and the things that you extract from. It
was more about, you know, performance driven, keeping up with
(05:56):
the Joneses, early specialization, like all of these like ideology,
jeez that were never talked about, at least I never
heard growing up. And I actually got sucked into it
a little bit before you get to that, what was
it like when you were a kid?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
I mean, were you you're playing football and baseball or
were you playing other sports.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
I played organized football from the time I was seven
years old. I played organized baseball from the time I
was seven years old. Just recreation. So with seasonal of course,
I'm in the Northeast, so everything was seasonal. Basketball was
just something I played in the backyard. It was something
I played in the neighborhood at the parks. I loved basketball.
I wasn't particularly the greatest at it. Baseball, I always
knew right away was my favorite sport. I loved it.
(06:37):
I think I performed well at it. Same thing with football,
But I didn't necessarily love the physicality of football, even
though I played it all the way through high school.
I was a quarterback. I didn't particularly love getting smacked
around a little bit. So I never really had a
desire to go beyond high school basketball. While I loved
so much and I played at CYO in high school,
I think I loved it so much because there was
(06:57):
no expectations I can like go out there and be athletic,
be a rebounder and kind of facilitate and just have fun.
And I really looked forward to after football season kind
of I always looked at basketball as like this downtime.
You know, I'm gonna play, have fun, I'm gonna stay
athletic and competitive as simultaneously gear up for baseball. Was
always like this mindset of I gotta get ready for
the baseball season. So you know, looking back on it, it
(07:19):
was this free play, this recreation, this stuff. But I
also learned playing basketball as like a rec player, like
how to be a just a team guy. You know.
In football, was always the starting quarterback from the time
every team I ever played on, I was a starting quarterback.
And in baseball was always a starting catcher. So I
felt like I always had these expectations, not put on
(07:39):
me by anyone else, but intrinsically, like I wanted to
be the guy and all of that. Whereas basketball I
didn't care as much about that. It was all about
having fun. So that was my life, my entire life.
It was either I was either following my brothers around
to watch them play football and baseball, and then when
it was my time, it was like all right. And
I remember one of the biggest things is they want
(08:00):
the state championship in high school was the first one
in the city for like fifty years, and it was
like a big deal, and and and and no one
in our city had ever won a high school baseball
state championship. There was six high schools in the city.
No one ever won. So my goal was I got
a match with my brothers. By the time I graduated,
I gotta be on a team that wins the first
state championship. And I swear to god, that was like
(08:20):
something I thought about from the time I was like
in sixth grade all the way through and then we
ended up, you know, my senior high school winning one,
and that was a big deal today still to this point,
it's why I'm such a big believer in the importance
of high school and scholastic sports. It's like, those are
some of the most I shouldn't even say some there
are probably the most enjoyable moments of my athletic time.
Even though I played in college and even a year
(08:41):
overseas professionally in baseball, like that senior year in particular
of high school, I still have good friends, but yeah,
just had the bantering, the camaraderie, the relationships that I developed.
Those are so sacred to me. So all those pieces
kind of you know, really spawned my ideology once I
saw my kids getting into sports and the importance of sports.
So that's I mean, that's high level, you know, high
(09:03):
school sports for sure, and yet you had the space
to play three sports through high school, essentially including pickup.
And I think that's different than what we see now
for sure. I mean, and I'm older than you are,
I'm fifty five, and you know, every athlete played three
sports and then played other sports pick up, and there
(09:25):
was plenty of space to do that. But that's different now,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
I mean, as a parent, how do you see those differences?
And I presume that's part of why you grew frustrated
and decided, hey, I got to do something about this.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
I'm glad you brought that up. Everyone I ever competed against,
whether it was a football, baseball, or basketball, the best
of the best, you know, played other sports. I could
think of you know Tony Ortiz, guy who was the
Gatory player of the Year in football, who who went
on a play linebacker at Nebraska. He was a track
All American, played basketball, played everything. Steve Coughlin, who you
(10:01):
know a lot of people may know from you know, ESPN, Stanford, Steve.
I played against him in football and Sonia High School.
To dude was he was a freak and every sport
he ever played, basketball, baseball, football, So that was just
what everyone did. And today everything's turned into year round, right,
everything's turned into year and now I can't I like
to go on the record and just say I can't
(10:22):
tell you that if I grew up in the Southeast,
I wouldn't have played fall baseball like I might have,
you know, by the time I got to high school.
I'm glad I didn't because it was just too damn
cold to play baseball up in the Northeast at that time.
But once I got to high school, I probably if
I had that option, I might have, you know, at
that point. But yeah, I mean that was the norm.
And it's tough today to navigate with your kids. And
(10:43):
my wife and I not that we buck the system,
you know, because I gotta tell you, man, initially, I
never I never felt pressure to like do that. I
took it personally, I guess, you know, when I started
hearing and this is what happened. I was coaching, you know,
my kids teams, and I was voted to be like
the all Star coach at seven, U, eight, U nine,
(11:04):
you And that was a lot of fun. But that's
when the intensity kind of picks up. It's kind of
a commitment over the summer, Like the kids get voted
to the All Star team, and the intensity is it's
about trying to compete to win at that point, and
that's what kind of everyone signs up for, Like it's
more of a commitment for All Stars, which was great,
great experience, but that's when you kind of start. I
started hearing the the chirping about, well, let's take this
(11:25):
to the next level, and let's keep this team together,
and in order to get to the next level, you
got to play one sport year round. That I would
hear parents saying that's what I'm being told, and I'd
be like, well, who the hell is telling you that?
Because I played with guys who who got to the
big leagues, who who never did that? And I started
reaching out to coaches and guys that I know from
(11:45):
my experience who still are out there right now, and
I'm like, hey, am I the only one that sees
some really interesting ideology? And it was just echoed to
me like, yeah, we're seeing it, We've been seeing it
for years, You're spot on. We're seeing at the collegiate level.
It's like transforming of like really opened my eyes to
these feelings I was having about something not being right
(12:06):
in youth sports. It validated it, and I'm the type
of person where so what ended up happening was I
wasn't really on social media at all until like twenty
fifteen or sixteen. So my wife and I, you know, Amy,
got connected and she's like, get on Facebook. I'm like,
all right, whatever, and then I started posting and I
whoever hears this, they may be like shit, I didn't
(12:28):
realize he was doing that. I intentionally posted some things
that I knew people were going to see who were
kind of close to me, that I was probably gonna
maybe piss off, you know. I started putting some opinions
out there, and it was it was intentional. I wanted
to see if I was going to get a reaction
quite frankly, but it was calculated and it got some
some people hot, and I was like, man, there's something
to this. Like I'm gonna keep pushing this, and then,
(12:50):
you know, I once I hear the pushback, that's all
I need is a little gasoline, and I'm like, well, screwed,
And this is in my head. I'm going screw you.
I'm gonna prove everyone wrong and I'm just gonna no
one's gonna stop me. And and that's kind of what happened.
And then of course, when I have those things going
on in my head, I need validation, so I reach
out to people who I know no more than me,
(13:11):
and when they validated it, it's guns blazon And that's
kind of what I did. I had no idea, So
talk about a one hundredth episode. I don't know if
I ever listened to a podcast before I started this,
So it's pretty crazy.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah, I mean, in ninety nine of them, you know,
talking to you know, real stakeholders in the sports industry,
like you know, the best of the best athletes, the
best coaches, and you know, the overwhelming majority seemed to
be agreeing with your perspective. I mean seemed to be
you know, encouraging diversified you know, sports activities, time and
(13:46):
space to play other sports and cross training and so
on and so forth, not only for you know, the
healthy balance as a person, but also because these athletes
and coaches actually think that it produces, you know, better performance.
And I think that's that's the irony, because all of
you know, these players and coaches that are at the
(14:07):
level that these parents you're describing are hoping their kids
get to. They're saying don't specialize, and yet this whole
youth sports movement is accelerating towards specialization, and there's just
this massive disconnect. And I think that's sort of what
brought us together in terms of like trying to shed
(14:27):
some light on that disconnect and trying to trying to encourage,
you know, the restoration of balance basically.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
You know, as you were just describing that, I made
me think, like, I'm not someone who played at the
highest of highest levels, right, I'd played with guys who
got to the highest level. But to me, it's almost
a common sense thing. Like I was the youngest of three.
I graduated high school when I was seventeen. I didn't
turn eighteen, so I was already a freshman, you know,
(14:56):
on campus at college. So in hindsight, I'm like, and
I wish, you know, I wish I was a year
older or whatever, But it ended up being a blessing.
I guess the reason I'm saying that is like, there's
so many people out there trying to create this narrative,
you know, this narrative of you know, one way, and
there's there's something to be said about leaving something in
(15:19):
the tank. I mean, I think everyone that listens to
this remembers, whether it's their baseball experience, the wrestling experience, basketball, football,
doesn't matter, that kid who was the best kid in
their mind in the country at ten to eleven years old,
and by the time they get to high school they
weren't even playing anymore. And I specifically remember several in
baseball who were throwing harder than everybody else, and unfortunately,
(15:40):
back in the late eighties early nineties, and you know,
there wasn't as much education on armcare, and the best
pitchers would throw like every game and their arms would
blow out, you know. So I'm glad that we've caught up,
you know, from a baseball standpoint to arm care and
monitoring pit pitch counts and all that. But everyone remembers
that kid that was the stud at that early age
(16:02):
who phased out. So to me, it was just normal
to think, like if I'm a college coach and I
never coached a day in college, but it's like, why
wouldn't I want a kid who has this broad, diversified
competitive background, who's excellent in this sport but has never
locked in on it. What happens when I get here
or she here and they do lock in on it,
(16:23):
how much? How much is still left in the tank
from an upside perspective, So to me, that just made
so much sense. And more importantly than that, I've known
kids who have burnt out, you know, who got tired
of it, who were doing it all year own, who
had external pressure, you know, who had parents that were
really bearing down on them, or you know, whoever was
bearing down on them, and they got tired of it,
(16:45):
and they were so talented. And then the more of
these conversations I had, I realized that that was a
common theme, and it was like, how is this not
common sense? But it's it's really not. I actually remember
when I first started posting the whole you know, the
importance with multi sport, and someone would always commat I
don't remember who it is, but anyway, he would always say,
(17:05):
you're just pushing the agenda, or you're you're trying to
help the multi sport you know, revenue stream, you know
you're trying to you You're wrong, You're simply pushing an agenda.
And I would go agenda like this is how. It
never dawned on me that that can actually be someone's perspective,
because to me, it just made so much sense, like balance,
and why would you want your kid? You know they
(17:28):
say early to early to ripe, early to rot, you
know what I mean. So it's like the longer the delay.
And then I found out from all these interviews like
David Epstein, all these different coaches, like there's science, there's
actually science behind like delaying gratification, like from a physical standpoint,
from a mental health standpoint, like allowing. And it's tough.
(17:48):
You know, it's tough as a parent because your kid
will say to you, I really want to do this,
But I always go back to the quote I read
about no more Garcia Para. My kids want to eat
ice cream every meal, but I have to be the
one to tell them no, you know, I can't let
him do it. And I think the same thing is
said needs to be done and approach in sports.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yeah, you see posts occasionally where you know an eight
year old has committed to a college program. I mean,
how can an eight year old know that he wants
to go to college, where he wants to go to college,
or even what sport he may want to play in college.
I find that to be unrealistic. And so to your point,
(18:26):
if you're a coach, a college coach, and you're you know,
you're valuing different approaches at the youth sports level. I
think when you get to the age of eighteen and
you know why you want to play a particular sport
and you know what drives you to get better at
that sport, then that is much more reliable than the
(18:48):
kid who has only played the one sport was told
that that's what you ought to do. And you know
you've mentioned burnout for sure, burnout, but also just in
terms of the drive that you have understanding what you're
going to get out of that sport. I think an
athlete that has come to it on his or her
own is going to be I think much better position
(19:12):
to you know, play at the collegiate level or just
to take the sport as far as they can. You know,
I think we all have seen maybe not all I
know you have because your client is Michael Phelps, but
like and I'm sure you've seen it in your own,
you know, athletic career yourself. We've all seen the outliers.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
You know, I saw and competed against kids from an
early age and now even as a father, my kids
will compete and I'm like, oh my god. We all
know when we see a kid that's different, you know
that really at like twelve, thirteen, fourteen, you're like, wow,
that just looks different, that sounds different. But those kids
are outlined my kids. You know, my son Mark's who's
going to be seven, he takes piano lessons, right, he
(19:53):
just likes it. Right, He's taking little piano lessons. You know,
he's not the next Beethoven, right. But my point is
how many parents take their kids to piano lessons or
gymnastics lessons or sign them up for baseball and get told, wow,
your kid might be special. You know your kid if
we do this at this year, you know whatever it is,
(20:14):
if we start coming in for private lessons and doing
this like there's a chance that they can go like
that's I'm sorry. But the outliers aren't that they're outliers
for reason. There's not that many kids that are the
next Michael Phelps, that are the next you know whoever,
Walker Jenkins who got just drafted down here from from
(20:36):
you know, Southport, North Carolina, who we had on the podcast,
who got drafted fifth overall in the Major League Baseball Draft.
You know, a month or two ago. Everyone knew at
twelve or thirteen, when you saw that kid, it was different.
You know, they're different. Now it's easy to sell a
parent that their kid can be different. And got I
got to tell you, man, I know a little bit
(20:57):
about selling. I know a little bit about marketing. Like
if I wanted to go into that business, that's exactly
what I would do. And so so cautionary tale parents,
like that's what I would do. Like I would tell everyone, man,
if you lock in on you know Seth Pepper, right,
he was a guest on our on our podcast. He's
my brother in law. He was, I guess a millisecond
away from being Olympian. He's a Hall of Famer University
(21:19):
of Arizona swimmer, all these things. He brings his daughter
to gymnastics, and you know, a couple of years ago
he told me, I think he mentioned on the podcast.
He's like, they pulled me aside and he goes, Nick,
they started telling me like, hey, she's special, and he
stopped him. He goes, hey, I know, and he said
I wasn't rude, but I let him know, like I
know what it's like to be in this arena and
to know, like, my child is going to have a childhood.
(21:42):
I know it, you know, and I appreciate what you're saying.
But he stopped because of his experience, he was able
to stop them in their tracks and kind of not
take the bait. Not to say that that person was
coming at him with bad intentions, because that's not always
the case, But how do we know who do we
have to weed people out? There are people with a
that aren't in your kid's best interest, and as a parent,
(22:03):
it's very easy to take debait. And what parent wants
to be the one to not give their kid the
best opportunity. So I think that's what people are juggling
is the bad apples, right, those who don't have their
kids or their family's best interests in mine versus those
who who really are trying to look out for the
best interest. And it's borderline like it's very easy to
pray on a parent's emotions. And that's what kind of
(22:24):
pissed me off in the very beginning. I'm like, man,
if there's one place we don't want to taint, like,
don't taint youth sports because it was so important to me.
When we return, I open up about a time I
took my son's youth baseball game a little too seriously
and reflect on what I would do differently with the
knowledge and tools I have today. Where we left off,
(22:46):
Peter and I were about to talk about empowering parents
to make informed decisions and the positive impact these choices
can have not only on your kid, but also on
your entire family.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
I mean, I think that you know, as a culture,
we don't ask ourselves frequently enough what's the point of sports?
What's the purpose? What's the value? We just assume that
if if you can, if you're if you're the parent,
and a coach comes up to you and says your
kids special, then you should throw everything aside and that
(23:17):
becomes the priority. But why, I mean the clients that
I have, these are clients that actually can make a
living by being that good at sports. But they're like,
if you look at the statistics, I mean, it's it's
not the wisest choice to take that path because so
few athletes can get a college scholarship, can be paid
(23:39):
to play that sport. And so if you think about it,
whether it's you know, gymnastics or hitting a baseball or whatever,
those skills only have you know, such a lifespan, right,
I mean, when was the last time you, you know,
derived any value out of hitting a baseball?
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Right?
Speaker 2 (23:56):
But you had an amazing experience. You learned these lessons,
you applied it to your life, and as you say,
it helped you to get an education, even though that
might not have been a scholarship situation because it was
D three. But for baseball, maybe you wouldn't have gone
to college. There are many different reasons why sports is valuable,
(24:16):
but I don't think we think about those things and
really reflect upon them. In my and this goes to
sort of how we came together. But to me, I
don't know anybody that has gotten more out of sports
than me. I'm sure that there are plenty of people
out there that would say the very same thing, which
is terrific, right, But for me, there's nothing I enjoy more.
(24:38):
I enjoyed it as I was a kid. I played
competitively all the way through college, and then I kept
on playing sports. I still play sports now and I've
made a living in sports. And so when I had kids,
what I wanted for them was a similar experience. And
so you know, that meant playing multiple sports. That meant
(24:58):
you know, exposure to all sorts of different things, and
it didn't mean, well, let's see how far you can
go in any particular sport and let's specialize. And what
I found was that you had to buck the system
in order to do that. It was very, very hard.
Up here in Maine, I played ice hockey. My kids
were into ice hockey. Had I built the rink in
(25:19):
the backyard, I mean it was it was great. And
because hockey up here is probably it dominates the schedule. Mean,
it's like nine months out of the year, and you
can you can do twelve months, but even at the
age of like seven, it's you know, it starts up
in August and you're not done until like May. And
because my kids wanted to play soccer as well, and
(25:42):
I wanted them to play soccer, like I had to
basically battle with the hockey program in order to, you know,
create space for them to play soccer. And and it
was really impossible because even if you were able to
do that, the kids were going to be disadvantaged within
the hockey program. And so so I found that to
be like completely nonsensical that like what I saw to
(26:06):
be a very healthy approach to sports, and and what
my athletes and the coaches that I work with, many
of whom you know, are at the level of the
people that you've spoken to for the ninety nine episodes
of your podcast. They would all say, yeah, that's what
you want. You want you want them to play at
that age, certainly multiple sports. And despite you know, my perspective,
(26:29):
I really was very very hard to like provide them
that experience. And in the end, because they did love
to play hockey, you know, and they played with these
other sports. What was the sport that they bailed on
in high school hockey? And when you asked why, they
were burnt out, they were over it. The fun was gone.
It was because you had to do it. Fortunately, they
(26:49):
found other sports. But I think we're doing our kids
a massive disservice in just reflexively like jumping into the
flow and saying, okay, well, they have to specialize. This
is what we're being told, this is how the system
is set up, and forcing these kids to choose between
sports at the age of seven. And unfortunately, because that
(27:09):
is the momentum of the system, we've got to advocate
for change. We've got to like change the mindset of
the parents, of the coaches, of the administrators, of the leagues,
of the schools, and it's a real uphill battle because
as I've seen it all the way through, you know,
the high school level, that imbalance is just baked into it.
(27:32):
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Oh my god, I mean absolutely, And I think it's
important to understand, like there's not one way, and that
was one of my main driving forces starting event. There's
not one way to go about this, right, Everyone's situation
is different, and we're not I'm not trying to shove
an agenda down someone's throat. However, just to your point,
and you kind of mentioned it earlier, like we're trying.
(27:56):
I'm trying, through reformed sports to help people make the
most informed decision. Right, So you talked about fucking the system,
Like what would give someone the confidence to feel good
about that, right because they're getting that pressure of and
my kid gonna miss out or you know, I'm being
told this. Well, let me listen to these fifty episodes,
let me let me, let me listen to what Nix says,
(28:16):
let me read these blocks, let me read this newsletter,
so I can make the most informed decision, Like I
don't have to listen to to Johnny uh, Johnny X
minor leaguer, Who's who's strong arm And I say strong army.
It's probably not, but he could be strong arming me
into making me feel as though I need to do
baseball year round, whatever the sport is, it's every freaking sport.
(28:37):
It's like I need to have the information to be
able to know what's the best case scenario for myself
as a parent and my child and my family. And
I know my wife and I we have six kids,
so like we are limited to what we can do
from a time management perspective. Now, our oldest, you know,
just went to college and is wrestling there, and my
others are like entrenched in youth sports. Right now, I've
(28:58):
got two again, a five and a seven year old
that are just doing little kid soccer, and then my
son's gonna my nine year old's gonna do fall baseball.
He'll he loves basketball, baseball, across everything. But like we're limited, right,
so we can't do all into one kid, and I
don't want to. The minute we start feeling like really overwhelmed,
and we're overwhelmed because we have a lot of kids
(29:20):
that should be a signal. Like I see people all
the time who once their kids get to middle school
and they can play at least down here in wimingto
North Carolina, they can start playing middle school baseball. So
now they're on this is like a normal situation. They're
on a rec baseball team, they're on a travel baseball team,
and then they start playing middle school baseball. They're on
three teams at the same that's three different schedules. That's
(29:41):
three different you know, practice schedules, game schedules, you know,
running around less than two each his own. But at
some point, if it's gonna make you miserable, make it
like you got to think about it, and that might
be okay for somebody, but it also might run someone
into the ground. So the point is is knowing that
coaches at the collegiate level, professionals have the information that
(30:03):
we've talked about in podcasts that can tell you you
don't need to feel the pressure, you don't need to
play year round, you don't have to play baseball whatever
the sport is, all year long, from the time that
you're ten pill whatever. And then there are some that
will say once you get to a certain age, once
you get into high school. Once you get into freshman's
sophomore year, as you're getting closer and you really have
a desire to playing college, that may be a time
(30:24):
to hey, I'm playing three sports, now it's time to
go down to two, you know type thing. Or maybe hey,
I might get drafted or I might have a chance,
like I'm going to start training during the year and
playing baseball year round, And there's data and science behind that.
So it's important for people to understand, like we want
you to make the most informed decision. How many times
you go buy a car and you're shopping, you're looking
(30:46):
at the fact checks and all this stuff and pricing
and do the same thing like like look up this organization,
Like look up that organization, find out what are they about?
Are the coaches about development? Like what are they about?
You know, I think it's important for people to make
an active interest and vetting the folks who are going
to be leaders of their child throughout their their sport process.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense making
an informed decision. I mean, so many parents, will you know,
complain to me about this, the pressure that they feel
to do all, you know, to play on three different
teams to spend the money to do the travel program,
and that they have no time to go on a
family vacation, let's say, and that they're afraid that if
(31:31):
they don't do that that their kid's going to be disadvantaged.
I mean, what advice do you have, you know, to
those parents, because if they're trying to make an informed decision,
that decision is like do I disadvantage my kid so
that this coach, you know, he's out of favor with
this coach that also coaches maybe the school team, or
has some other involvement in the community, and there's there
(31:54):
is a tremendous pressure. It's tough to make that decision. So,
having been through it, what's your advice to those parents?
Speaker 1 (31:59):
That's a question. But my perspective is skewed from my
personal experience. And why is that because I grew up
in the Northeast, Because I'm going to be forty four
years old in a couple of weeks. I didn't grow
up with endless amounts of time to play sport. I
wasn't on multiple teams. So for me, like I remember
(32:19):
we were on a we went to like I don't
even know where this is Hampton Beach and now we're
on this little vacation. It's like a boardwalk there or something.
That was like big living for me. But anyway we're there.
My brother had you know, my brother is going to
be a senior. They were starting like spring football or
something like that or summer football whatever, and it was
important in my family. You're going home like you're going
you're going to be a captain. You're gone like you're
(32:41):
going to football. And my brother wanted to so from
for us the way I grew up, if you were
on a team. Now, well again, we didn't take vacations.
Like I said, that was like a few times in
my life. I can remember going to Hampton Beach. It
wasn't like a luxurious vacation, but we wouldn't schedule them
if there were big things from our athletic like that was.
I will tell you, Like today kids are on so
(33:03):
many teams, there's so many tournaments. Everything's watered down that
like who cares if you missed a timbucktoo local tournament,
Like it's different. It's different today than it was. It
is water down And I don't know if it's good
or bad, but I know for me, and what I
would be for my kids, Like my son's a wrestler,
My kids are older kids are wrestlers, Like, then that's
(33:23):
their sport, that's their sports that they take seriously. I
would never advocate for them to miss something for their
high school team, Like I would never know you're doing that.
So I think it's a it's a juggling act, but
I think it's finding. Like for me, it's like whatever
sport is in season, right, Let's say you play football
and baseball and you're in and it's spring, and I've
(33:44):
talked to coaches who have mentioned this. Or if you're
on a travel team and it's during high school, right,
let's say it's travel and high school baseball. Travel coaches
have told me, when it's high school season, high school's
priority and they talk to their kids about that. I
know two coaches that have told me that, who run
pretty I've interviewed, and both have had pretty nationally known organizations.
(34:04):
Andy Parton and Jeff Petty have said when it's high
school season, that takes precedence over travel, and then comes summertime,
like the flip flop is there. But it's like those
are conversations we have with the parents. So how I
navigate is is like, if you're in season. What I
mean by in season. If I'm a parent and I
pull my kid off of a tournament and it's in season,
(34:27):
this is just my perspective, right or wrong. I think
I'm screwing over the rest of the kids. That's just me.
Now again, I think that there's age appropriateness seven, eight,
nine years old, unless you're trying to get to the
Little League worldshit, whatever the hell. You know, if it's
very important and you signed up for this short timeframe,
then commit to it. But if it's if you're seven
years old and your family wants to go on a
(34:47):
vacation and you're going to miss a rec ball game,
the freaking missed a rec ball game? Does that make
any sense?
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Yeah, I think you're right. High school's kind of a
different situation. I think because to your point, I mean,
I think as you get through this, you know, you
can make an informed decision and you start to you know,
kids understand why they want to play a particular sport
over another, and you're also making a commitment to the
team in the program. But when you're ten years old,
there is like there's a tendency now for ten year
(35:15):
olds even to play year round, for ten year olds
to play on multiple teams, right, so you know, you
could be playing on a travel team, you could be playing,
you know, doing a clinic, you could be playing on
the school team, even if it's off season. And at
ten years old for a parent to be shelling out
that money and to feel as though if they don't
(35:37):
make that a priority and somehow accommodate this child's you know,
three different teams at the age of ten, that they'll
be doing their kid a disservice and that the kid
will have a disadvantage in that sport. And coaches it's
like you can say you're going to pull them from
you know, to go on vacation. Well, I can tell
you the coach won't like that, right, yeah, I mean
(35:57):
other parents won't like that, Other kids won't like that.
So there is real pressure at that level. And if
you have more than one kid, you just think about
the you know, the commitment required of a family to
accommodate that level of Frankly, it is specialization at the
age of ten. And I think that when what I
hear from parents is they take issue with that. But
(36:20):
they don't know what to do about it because they
as parents, they want to do right by their child,
and all of the signs suggests that they need to
allow for this kid to participate on three teams at
the same time and to buck that system. They're afraid
that they're pulling their kid out of the sport essentially,
(36:43):
and I guess that's where I don't know what to
tell them, because you know, in my mind, you have
to change the culture, you have to change the system
so that that that's not such a problem if your
kid doesn't play three sports. But I do think that
there's a tendency nowadays for that to be commonplace and
for parents to feel real pressure that they need to
(37:05):
allow for their kids to do that.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
So I remember, hence the name reform. So I remember
when my son Tyler was seven and it was all
he's playing wreck baseball and it's actually kind of it
doesn't bother me, but I learned from it my dad
at Stage four camp. She end up passing away like
five months later, but like he was down there, this
was a vacation my brother and my whole family would
put together go down a Myrtle, whole family together and
(37:29):
that's only an hour and a half from me. And
we had a wreck baseball game and I wasn't I
was an assistant coach, but I was like, man, this
is a great opportunity for my dad to go see
Tyler play. You know, chance Starr is going to pass
and YadA, YadA YadA, and you know, I remember my
brother being like, dude, miss the game, Like what are
you doing? Like he's seven, Like why are you going
(37:50):
to drag dad up there? I'm like, no, no, no, no,
he can't miss the game, like dad wants to see it.
And my dad, you wouldn't tell me he didn't want
to trun an hour and a half to go watch
the seven you machine pitch baseball game. But rest as shirt.
I clearly I'm talking about it because it bothers me.
But yeah I did that, you know what I mean?
And for no other reason than I thought, like you don't.
(38:12):
But like my perspective has changed. I would never do that,
not just because my dad was sick with cancer, but
because no one gives a shit about a seven U
baseball game. No one cares about an eight U baseball game.
No one cares like I have a seventeen year old. Now, yeah,
when you're in that moment, it's a little bit different,
you know, especially your first kid. I know, I made
my most mistakes with my older kids, right, think, you know,
(38:34):
in many ways, Thank god I get a chance to
write the ship a little bit in some ways. Right,
But that's a good example of me taking it a
little bit too serious. And I'm not the only one.
Like I thought I was doing the right thing, Like no, no,
we made a commitment. We got made a commitment to
a seven game. My son played like an inning, like
it wasn't even a big deal. But the point is
there has to be rational perspective. If I am jeopardizing
(38:54):
a vacation, you know, that incorporates my entire family, and
it's disruptive, Like that's probably making it more about me.
And that's what I did. Wasn't my son beaten down
the wall? Go I really want to go to this game?
No idea. So that's to me as an example of
kind of the distorted thinking that you can get wrapped
up in and kind of living vicariously through your kid.
(39:17):
You know, like my ego at one point was tied
into it, and that's a hard thing to recognize. When
you're caught up in it. But it's a stupid story.
But to give it, I would never do that again.
I'll put it do that one.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Well, when nine year olds are committing to play in college,
you know, as a parent, you've got to be able
to say, well, that's great, but I don't need to
feel as though something that my kid should be doing.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Yeah, And that's the thing. You look on social media,
it's like, well, so and so is getting offer at twelve,
like we can't miss this eight nine new game, And
you know, it sounds as we're now with my perspective,
it's like, it sounds kind of ludicrous to think that,
but it's very, very real and it's emotion that people
are feeling on a daily basis.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
So yeah, and I think that, you know, my advice
on that would be listen to reform sports podcasts. Listen
to them, listen to the coaches, listen to the athletes,
and from all of that you will understand why it's
not important for your child to commit to play a
particular sport at a particular school at the age of twelve.
(40:21):
And that's available now. I mean, it's like I think
that you know, going back to Reform Sports Project. I
think that that's the work that you've done.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
I mean, that's.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Ninety nine podcasts, ninety nine perspectives, and it's available, and
to me, that's a great service to parents, to kids,
to coaches, and you know, all you have to do
is listen to these you know, these are people that
have lived it, that understand it, and you can, I think,
derive some I don't know, some strength, and it'll empower
(40:53):
parents to make that hard decision, even though in the
moment it may feel as though you know you're sort
of disadvantaging your child because all of the other parents,
you know, are signing their kids up for three different
teams and pouring all of their time and money into
those programs. You can make an informed decision based on
(41:14):
a different perspective, and I think that's really important in
terms of what you've done through Reformed Sports Project. You know,
it's funny, this is a question I would ask to
a parent. You know, obviously we're not going to get
an answer her, but it's something to think about it. It's
like you're bringing your kids to a school. You know,
maybe you're choosing which school to you send your kids,
and maybe you have to send them to.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
A certain school. Who knows? But do you do some
due diligence? You know, do you figure out the pros
and cons of that school? You know a lot of
people are very conscientious of their diet, especially the food
they give their kids. Is that something? Do you look
up the data? Do you find out the information? Do
you try to figure out so you can make the
most informed decision? Can you make a house purchase, you
make a car purchase? You know, you make it a
(41:54):
financial decision of any sort. I would think most people
who are concerned about the result of that, or I
have a vested interest, would try to gather as much
information to make the most informed decision. Don't just sign
your kid up for a team because you know, Johnny
Appleseed's parents said, you know, oh the coach is great.
(42:14):
Like do your homework, do your due diligence. Listen to
the pod find out perspective. Because the guests that we
have on have resumes, they have legit resumes at the
highest levels. That would give you insight for free, you know,
So why wouldn't you take advantage of that? You know,
why wouldn't you want access to that information to just
(42:36):
if anything else, be able to have a perspective and
the opportunity when you get to a crossroad, you know,
to be able to know which way you should turn,
because you only get one shot. And let's face it,
it all starts at home, you know, with parents and guardians.
You know, with the influence that we have on the kids.
But what are the next people that are around it? Right,
they're teachers, their coaches. Don't ever underestimate the impact of
(42:59):
a it could make or break. I have some coaches
that have unbelievable relationships to this day twenty five thirty
years later, and I have some I wouldn't want to
be within a half a mile of And that's okay,
But don't underestimate the impact a coach can have on
a kid. Find out the information, find out the data,
and I think we have a library of content that
(43:22):
can help you do that. Thanks for joining us for
our one hundredth episode. Peter and I continue our conversation
next week, where we dive further into our goals for
reform Sports and the future of the youth sports industry.
Thanks for listening to the Reform Sports Podcast. If you've
enjoyed this episode, we would appreciate it if you took
a moment to rate and review our podcast. As we
work to grow our community of supporters and advocates for
(43:44):
more reform sports content, please subscribe to our newsletter and
blog at Reformsports Project dot com. You can also follow
us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn.
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