Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
It all starts at the grassroots level, So we need
to make an impact. And as you said, Peter, like parents,
share the content, like talk to people, get involved, you know,
don't just sit on the sidelines. That's the best way
to impact this. Do what I did and just have
a voice. And I know, for me, I can't sit
on the sidelines, so you know, I want to be
in the game.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
This is the Reform Sports Project, a podcast about restoring
healthy balance and perspective in all areas of sports through
education and advocacy.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
AI.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
This is Nick Bonacor from the Reform Sports Podcast. Last week,
Reform Sports co founder Peter Carlisle joined as the guest
host to celebrate our one hundredth episode. This week, we
continue with part two of our wide ranging conversation as
Peter and I discussed the moment I realized I was
contributing to a toxic youth sports culture. Why due diligence
is so important when making informed decisions, and the value
(00:53):
of implementing change at the grassroots level.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I think that's the void that Reform Sports Project is
trying to bill in that, you know, for parents to
do due diligence and for parents to try to make
an informed decision, where do you turn? You know, it's like,
where is that information? And I think that we have
decided that, well, there's a benefit to trying to bring
(01:15):
some of that information together, bring some of the perspectives together,
so that parents have a you know, easy place to
find the data, to find the perspectives and the information.
I mean, youth sports is also becoming a very expensive endeavor.
And when you're having to make decisions about travel teams
and different camps and that sort of thing when your
(01:38):
child's eight years old, nine years old, and it used
to be you just you know, you play Little league
and you play community rec programs and then eventually, you know,
you progress through the ranks and you know, maybe have
to spend some money. But now that starts at such
a young age that even as it relates to the
cost of youth sports participation, parents need to make an
(02:00):
formed decision about that. I mean, it never ceases to
you know, amaze me when you read about the percentage
of parents who will say that they are investing in
their child's sports with the expectation that it will pay
off in the form of a college scholarship. And while
(02:22):
that is wonderful if and when it happens, statistically, it
is against the odds. And you know, when you are
thinking about how do I best help my child get
a college degree, let's say if that's if that's what
they want. I mean you've said that's one of the
great benefits of baseball ironically unrelated to baseball, right, and
(02:43):
I think it you know, to have options when your
child gets to the age where they know what they
want to do. There's a financial you know, aspect to
that that you need to also consider. So uh and unfortunately,
now you sports is so expensive that it's not just
you know, decisions about well, is it good for my
child to specialize? Does he really love this sport? Do
(03:06):
I want to do this? But it's also what's the
financial impact in going down that road? And it's hard
to make an informed decision. So at any rate, I
think that that's another important component to reform sports project,
the effort to try to, you know, provide some of
that information just so parents can consider it when they're
making these decisions before they get too far down the road. Yeah,
(03:28):
and not to go too deep into it, but it's
like you want to talk about one of the most.
This is so wild to say, but it's like an
explosive industry. Currently, the youth sports tourism industries as upwards
of a thirty billion dollar industry. I mean, that's insane.
You know, we've had some guests on who are in
the space, who are doing phenomenal work. But I mean, yeah,
(03:50):
a venture capitalists come into private equity firms. I mean,
you have money being poured into that invested into this space.
Why because clearly there's growth to so I'm sure there'll
be a lot of good to come out of that.
But it's important for parents to understand, you know, just
like you wouldn't go and sign up for a five
hundred dollars a month car payment with it. Maybe you
(04:10):
would without doing any due diligence, but generally speaking, you're
at least going to try to make the most informed decision,
you know, before opening up your wallet like that. And
you know, it's tough, and the difference is unlike if
you buy a lemon, you know, of a car or
whatever product it is, you know it's it's kids are resilient,
but it's a little harder to undo the potential ramifications
(04:32):
of a lemon program or a Lemon coach that you
can get. So you just want to be you're dealing
with with your kid and we all only get one shot.
And I just think it's important not to get too
much into the weeds, but you know, try to make
the most informed decision you can. I feel like we're
a great asset for that. So Nick with RSP talk
to us a little bit about how you, you know,
made the decision to like, I'm going to do this.
(04:54):
You came up with the name. You sort of took
a little bit more of a of a deliberate step
in launching that. And this is this is before you know,
you and I had met. I mean, can you tell
us a little bit about that. Sure, the name reformed,
you know, at the time, it was shortly after so
I'm remarried, you know, we're a blended family. It was
(05:15):
about a year or so, maybe two or yeah, maybe
three years after I'd already been through a divorce. And
anyone who's ever been through a divorce, it's very humbling,
it's very much not pleasant, and you know all those things.
So I had there was a very strong amount of
time for me to do some reflecting, you know, and
to look at my side of things. You know, the
(05:38):
name reformed came from I just kind of inventoried where
I was in life, like how I got here? Where
am I? Where do I want to go? And this
was a piece of it. My older kids were very
much in it. It was a very big piece of
our life. And I recognized that specific moments of my
coaching my kids, I probably was unreformed. I remember when
(06:00):
I'll never forget this, dude, this is embarrassing as hell.
It's kind of funny. You probably won't laugh because I'm
setting it up around. But I remember, like I swear
to god, I was walking. I parked my car with
my kid, and I get out and I remember, you know,
I'm coaching as I'm wearing the shirt or whatever, and
I remember walking to the field being like, dude, I
am the best coach here, like like, and I'm like
(06:22):
coaching nine year olds. I was one of those knucklehead
idiots that I can't stand now who is like And
I say, I can't stand. I was just wrapped up
in it, like I was. I was getting way too
much satisfaction and negative feelings when things weren't going well,
Like I was wrapped up I was consumed by the
(06:42):
performance of the teams I coached. I was consumed by
the performance of my kids. I took that as a
reflection of me as a parent, and after going through
a divorce and kind of reflecting on my life and
seeing you know how oxick that was, it really opened
my eyes so like, oh my god. It was almost
like I put on another set of glasses and I
(07:03):
can recognize myself in the mirror, like I'm being an idiot,
and then it was almost like magnified, like oh my god,
everyone's like this. So I was blinded by it because
I felt like I was just like everybody else, even
though I had some history in sports and recognize like
I got lost in it. And then once I could
see I was the problem and I was part of
(07:24):
the problem, I couldn't none see it, and it was
almost like something in my eye I couldn't get out,
and I needed to just I used to work in finance,
and there's a dude named Downtown Josh Brown who has
a big blog. He's the Reformed Broker. I don't know,
you probably know him if you follow And I thought
the name, I'm like, god, reform reform sports, like that's
(07:45):
where that's honestly the inspiration for the name of Reform.
I just thought that was catchy and it at the time,
it just made sense, and I had absolutely no expectations
of what it was going to do. I just knew
that It's like who was seeing the movie Tombstone when
Kurt Russell's like, you know, the Hell's coming with me, right,
He's screaming like I'm gonna you know, he's going crazy.
(08:06):
I was going to take down the Cowboys. And that's
how I felt like. I felt like I'm going to
burn this freaking thing down. Like I was so pissed
about what I was seeing, what was being extracted from it,
and I felt like I needed to be a voice.
So what did you do? How did you address that?
So I just started going online like I mentioned in
the beginning, and just putting out, you know, posts on Facebook.
(08:28):
Like I remember. The first thing I did was tell
a story about how I went fourteen years old. I
went to Cuba before a was do like some church
or whatever. I freak exact. It was an all star
team that was put together in Waterbury, Connecticut, and we
went to Cuba to play baseball against Cubans for two
weeks and we went down there. And this is in
like ninety three or ninety four, and I'll never forget.
(08:52):
First of all, we got our ass pick the whole time,
and they exposed me to how you know, it's a
third world country. You know, it was just I've never
seen anything like it. And some beautiful places, I mean beautiful,
but like right next to it, like the most extreme
poverty you've ever seen. And we're playing against these kids.
And they got holes in their cleats. Their bats are
like twenty years older than what we have. They got dents,
(09:15):
they got chipped. It was like nineteen thirty highlights where
they leave their gloves out there and like they would
ship And here we are. Now. We weren't rich, like
we were just a blue cup. We just happened to
go down there on this like you know, fellowship trip
or whatever. But I felt like we were these rich Americans.
We have nice bats, we have the easton the TPX
like the newest models or whatever. And we all had
(09:37):
our own gloves. And after each game we were giving
out like you know, we'd give them like a goodie
bag that would have like hygiene things in them and
you know all these things, but they kicked the shit
out of us part of my language, but they did.
And I was catching. I'll never forget this. I was
catching and a kid hit a home lin. We're playing
on big league ballparks. I mean, there's ten thousand people
at these games. The whole city shut down, everywhere we went.
(09:57):
I mean it was unbelievable. Never experienced anything like in
my life. It hits a home run, I mean, four
hundred feet, fourteen years old, and I'm catching, and I
stand there and I pick the bat up and I'm
looking at it and it was dented, dented, chips this,
I mean it had to be like fifteen years old.
And it made me think, like, it doesn't matter what
(10:19):
the equipment is, like, it has no impact. So you ask,
what did I do? I told that story on a
post how I walk around baseball fields today and ten
year olds have a backpack with like who brand of equipment,
three different bats, the four hundred dollars glove. And it
was like, man, I'm like this this sport. Baseball is
(10:41):
a country club sport. It's a rich kids sport. Now
it's what has turned into and that I started telling
those stories those little like posts on Facebook and.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
People are like, oh, you know, people got mad, you know,
people like who I'm friends with with, like they thought
I was talking to them like, you know, kids don't
need this, and they took it personally.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
That's when I knew, like I got them. I got them.
This is something like there's something here Because I'm not
even directing this anyone. I'm just speaking my mind. I'm
pissing people off, like people I know are unfriending me.
I'm like, oh man, this is great. I loved it
because it just it was almost like it like I
mentioned before, it made me feel like these feelings I'm
(11:19):
having are real and I recognized them, and I was
going to be unrelenting with pursuing whatever it was. But
I'm going to keep You're not going to shut me up.
That was what it was. So you know, as you
progress beyond that, you started to talk to athletes and coaches. Right,
I mean this is pre podcast, cause I think you
and I were connected after you've spoken to Bob Bowman. Maybe,
(11:42):
is that right? Correct? How did you get from posting
your own experiences and pissing people off to then getting
the perspective and actually connecting with these world class coaches
and athletes. So I have a background in sales and marketing,
you know, so I've learned a lot of things through that,
and I like to think I'm pretty good at certain things.
(12:03):
So I knew, like I need to strike where I
know I can speak. First of all, let's cut the shit,
like everyone, I don't care who you are. People want
to hear how great they were, especially if it's twenty
years ago. They want to know like, oh, this person
thinks I'm great. So I was like, all right, I'm
just going to talk to people I know who are
very good athletes, who people in this certain circle know
are good. And I'm going to just get them to
talk to me because they're a friend, and I'm gonna
(12:25):
I'm gonna make sure that they share it on their
platform too. That was my thought. And then I'm going
to leverage every single one of these conversations I have
and get them to open me up to their network.
That was my thought. I'm like, I'm going to talk
to this one and I'm going to so to me.
It was like and I wouldn't say this, I'm going
to say it to you, but it was almost like Okay,
I'm going to tell your story. I'm going to stroke
your ego, which is legitimate, but in return, and I'm
(12:45):
gonna blast it out there on this minuscule platform I have,
but in return, I'm gonna also pepper you to open
up your network. Right, And I knew it was a
topic that they felt comfortable. So I started with people
that I knew intimately. Mike Fox, who you know, coached
at North Carolina for twenty plushys. He was my coach
in North Carolina. Wesleyan great guy, but I mean he's
a legend, right, And you know, so I was able
(13:06):
to leverage some relationships that I have and use their
names because they knew me, they trusted me, and they
were supporting me, and that really helped it. So I
connected with you through Seth Pepper, my brother in law. Right.
He swam for Frank Bush at University of Arizona. Right,
So Frank, uh, you know, Seth talked to him about
what I was, you know, doing, and Fank's like, oh,
(13:28):
you know USA swimming, and you know, he advocated. I
got to speak with him, and then you know, I
wanted to My whole thing was I thought this was
a mental health issue. I thought what was going on
was a mental health issue. And all I did was
see because my kids were really young, my younger ones
were really young at that time, and on this kids show,
there would always be a commercial of Michael Phelps sitting
(13:48):
in this pool talking about mental health. And I was like,
this is a mental health issue. I gotta talk to him.
I gotta get Phelps to come on. He's this is
He'll get it. He'll get it, He'll get it. Anyway,
So Steth talked to Frank. I talked to Frank and
then I said, I want to talk to Phelps, and
he goes, well, let's start with coach Bowman. And I
had no idea who Bob Bowman. Was never heard of
(14:09):
in my life. I never followed swimming outside of Michael
Phelps in my life. I'd sent Bob Bowman a message
on Twitter. Yeah, I love to talk, I said. I
interviewed Frank Bush, I'd love to Oh, I'd love to
talk to you. Next thing I know, I'm interviewing you know,
Bob Bowman, which you know is funny because I say
this now. He's a freaking legend too. But at the time,
I had actually no I it's almost like that saying
ignorance is bliss. I didn't know who the hell he was,
(14:31):
and he couldn't have been more awesome. And then all
of a sudden, I'm talking and I said, all right,
coach Bowman, I got to talk to I want to
talk to Phelps Man. Give me his number. He's the
only way you could talk to him is through Peter Carlisle.
And I was like, all right, give me that dude's number.
So he sent me your email or whatever, and I
remember I emailed you and text you. You didn't respond
to my text. I remember this shit like it was yesterday.
(14:51):
And then after like three or four emails, you finally
responded to me. I swear to God, don't take this
the wrong way. And as soon as you responded to
me instead to me, I see it too. All I
remember saying is I have seen this as well. I
have kids, and Yahdiah, I was like, oh, I got this, dude,
I got them. And of course I still have an
interview with Michael Phelpschez, so I don't know how much
I've got them. But after about three years of having
(15:14):
multiple conversations, and I'm glad that you didn't have me arrested.
Several times, you did threaten to block me. To be clear,
I threatened you with a temporary restraining order. Yeah, probably,
yes you should have. But either way that would make
me stop harassing you for like a day or two,
and then I would come back and I'd apologize, I'm
(15:36):
very sorry, I'm emotional about this. And then but finally,
then we had a few calls and finally, you know
you guys were like, man, you know you're in. So
the point is this only happens if I'm an athlete.
I learned how to compete. I learned how to not
take no for an answer. I have relationships with people,
and you know, here we are when we come back.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Peter and I discussed the importance of forming youth sports
at the youth level. Where we left off, Peter and
I were about to talk about the value of sharing
reform sports resources with your local communities and the importance
of parents and coaches understanding their power to implement positive change.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
I think we've made great progress over the past couple
of years, but I mean, so far to go, and
the reality is, like, we really can't change much unless
you have that mentality and so at any rate, I
I your persistence and drive and salesmanship certainly convinced me
(16:43):
and my team that, like, okay, we can make a difference.
And you know, and I think I think we have.
And you know now, of course, Reform Sports Project. It's
a podcast, it's a blog, it's a newsletter. I mean
talk about you know, how it's expanded and where it's
going and some of the things that you're most excited
(17:05):
about in terms of the coming year. Well, I'm really excited.
I mean, first of all, like you said, we have
the podcast, the blog, which we're I think we're coming
up on like one hundred blogs, which is amazing. The newsletter.
You know, I encourage everyone to go out there and
sign up for the newsletter. We do a great job
and it's just keeping people informed, building this network. And
then we also have other things coming on the pipeline.
(17:25):
I mean, we have long format tie blogs coming out.
I don't know how much in the weeds I can
get into this, but there's a lot of other pieces,
many other pieces of content that are coming. The most
exciting piece for me is how new the space is,
how unorganized this industry, how in my opinion, we are
(17:46):
the leader in the space, and we're certainly coming to
be the leader. I think this industry and people are
in desperate need of high quality content, of high quality
information and direction to help them make the most informed decision.
And what I see as doing is being the place
that people go, parents, coaches, at wherever for an all
(18:08):
encompassing If I need to hear what Dabo Sweeney says
about this, if I need to hear what whoever says
about this, I need some perspective on, you know, mental health.
I'm a coach and I'm having a kid come to
me with this problem. Well, let me click on the
Reform Sports Mental health piece and let me hear feedback
from XYZ coaches, oh, so and so athlete who has
(18:30):
been there before. I'm a parent. I don't know how
to navigate this. I got to buck the trend. And
my kid wants to play basketball, but he's being pressured
to do this year round. Well, let me go to
the Reform Sports website and click on the multi sport
piece and let me listen to what these experts have
to say and why it's so important too. And again
it's arming them. Right, You're not going to show up
to a fight with no weapons, So you want to
(18:51):
show up with as many tools as in your tool belt.
And what I see for Reform Sports Project Reform Sports
is I want to be the entire freaking tool like
we are everything, and I think that we do it
in the most unique way. I think that we have
the most enthusiasm. I think we have the best team,
and you know, I think there's a there's certainly a need,
(19:11):
and we have unbelievable listeners and readers and advocates. It's
like a small army being. But I can't tell you
how many messages I get every day from all over
the country thank you for what you're doing. You know,
we try to get back to everybody, but just keep
aligning with us, because I could promise you that the
impacts being made and it's going to continue to grow. Yeah,
(19:32):
I think you've said it a few times. You know,
it's about making an informed decision. And while it may
have started with parents, it's all part of this really
large system and with a lot of commercial interest, and
it's very difficult, you know, to get the information and
to make those good decisions. And I think that much
of the first phase of RSP was highlighting the problem,
(19:56):
and you've talked a lot about it, and you've done
an amazing job doing that, and I feel that now
people are talking more about it. I mean, I know
that I have I have parents and coaches that are
expressing frustration. But you know, what's the solution, what's the guidance? Right?
And there are you know, there are policy changes that
(20:18):
ought to be considered. And I think that when we're
talking about informed decisions, we're now talking not just to parents,
but to coaches, to the folks that are running the
private teams, to school administrators, to city government. I mean,
these are the stakeholders in youth sports and I think that,
(20:39):
you know, our hope is that we can provide some perspectives,
some tools, some data for them to use, and that
that will change things, even at a grassroots level. And
I would just say that to encourage your audience, Nick
and the RSP community to lean on Reform Sports for
that information, to let us know what would be helpful
(21:01):
to them, and then also to try to promote the
movement within their communities right at the local level, because
so many of the decisions and so many of the
pressures that kids, parents, coaches, administrators are under they happen
at the grassroots level, and so you know, if we
assemble all of this information and these resources, we need
(21:23):
your audience's help to implement them and distribute them to
the local community. So hopefully that network really continues to strengthen.
Don't ever underestimate parents, especially, like I always say, like
we parents, we control the whole thing. You know, we're
the consumers. You know, our children are the business. You
know what I mean, Like it's a thirty billion dollar industry. Well,
(21:45):
like it's built off of the backs of kids. And
I think it's important for people to understand, like there's
a lot of responsibility as businesses when you are dealing
with the physical and emotional well being of kids. So
you talk about what's the solution, you know, I used
to say, and I still kind of lead it. I
don't know if there is a all in one like
(22:05):
Hill that is going to clean it up. You're dealing
with kids and I have six kids, right, Each one
of them is different. They ying here, they yang here,
they have different buttons. They got to be pushed to
get them to respond. So on a grand scale, what
does that look like? You know, Coaches don't ever underestimate
the impact you have. You know, more importantly, the responsibility.
And that's what parents need to understand. Like it's not
(22:25):
just sign my kids up for sports, it signed my
kids up. I'm committing to this agreement. There's contracts written up,
You're paying fees, like your traveling commitments, uniform commitments, whatever
it is. It's like arm yourself with the information. And
you know, at the end of the day, it sounds
so cliche, but like I think it's all about just
making sure you're trying to look out. It's tough think
(22:48):
about it. I mean, as an adult, you're trying to
make a living, but sometimes the best way to make
a living is to always look out for the best
interests of your of your customers, of your consumers. So
you know, don't put your own wellbeing as an organization
to first put your kids that you coach interest first,
and that's probably the best way to get the best results.
(23:10):
And does that mean legislation? Does that mean governance from
you know, the government. I have no idea, but that
stuff's being talked about. I don't know if that's right, wrong,
or indifferent, But I think the more money that continues
to be poured into it. There's probably going to be
more regulation of some sort trickling down. It seems to be,
you know, from the college ranks and coming down nil
(23:30):
and all these things. There's like a trickle down effect.
But like you mentioned, the grassroots piece of it, it
all starts there. It all starts at the grassroots level.
So we need to make an impact. And as you said, Peter,
like parents, share the content, like talk to people, get involved,
you know, don't just sit on the sidelines. That's the
best way to impact is do what I did and
just have a voice. And you know, I know for me,
(23:53):
I can't sit on the sidelines, so you know, I
want to be in the game. Well, I think that's
why it's important to hear your storing it because if
you look at what RSP has become just because of
your efforts to get the message out. If you now
look at your your community that you've built, this audience
of yours, if that audience starts to do what you've done,
then this thing can really make a difference. And that's
(24:15):
how you're going to change the system. That's how you're
going to improve the culture and and restore sports. So
You're doing great work, Nick, keep it up. Thanks so
much for taking the time to chat with us about
your background today, and again, congrats on the one hundredth episode,
and a big thanks to your audience and the whole
(24:36):
Reform Sports community. Well, I appreciate it and thank you.
I want to give not only a shout out to
the audience and everyone listens, but also to to you,
Peter and Brooke and you know, Megan and Drew and
Ben and everyone at Octagon, Amanda, Jason, everyone that's that's
partnered up and helped listen. One hundred episodes is amazing.
But you know certainly wouldn't be here without without all
(24:58):
of you and and uh supporting and so thank you
very much too. Thanks for joining us for part two
of our one hundredth episode. In case you missed it,
check out part one where Peter and I dive further
into our advice for parents feeling the pressure to conform
today's youth sports culture.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Thanks for listening to the Reform Sports Podcast. If you've
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