September 13, 2023 • 26 mins
Tom Crean is a College Basketball Analyst for ESPN and former Division I head coach. Prior to rejoining ESPN in 2022, he served as the Head Men's Basketball Coach at Georgia, Indiana, and Marquette, winning over 400 games throughout his 20-plus year coaching career. Coach Crean joins Nick to discuss what it means to be a good teammate, the value of teaching kids how to advocate for themselves and make their own decisions, and why it’s important for kids to grow out of looking at their parents for validation while playing.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
You've got to have expectations for how they train, how
they work, how they treat others, because if you don't
build those then you're really negating their ability to do
what I think is getting harder and harder all the time,
which is to solve your own problems. Because the way
the world continues to evolve, it becomes so easy to
(00:23):
not have to be verbal.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
This is the Reform Sports Project, a podcast about restoring
healthy balance and perspective in all areas of sports through
education and advocacy. Hi, this is Nick Bonacor from the
Reform Sports Podcast. Today, I'm speaking with Tom Crane, college
basketball analyst for ESPN and former Division I head coach.
Prior to rejoining ESPN in twenty twenty two, Tom served
(00:48):
as a head men's basketball coach at Georgia, Indiana and Marquette,
winning over four hundred games throughout his twenty plus coaching career.
Coach Crean and I discuss what it means to be
a good teammate, teaching kids how to advocate for themselves,
elves and make their own decisions, and why it's important
for kids to grow out of looking at their parents
for validation while playing coach Tom Creane, Man, I am
(01:08):
freaking fired up. I'm excited to have you coach. Thanks
so much for joining.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Well, thanks for asking me that I appreciate it, and
then I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Well, I appreciate you. I know that we're we're talking
about something that you're not only experienced with, but it's
certainly passionate with. And where I want to start with you, coaches,
is I talked to several and had several guests on
you know, high level coaches like yourself, and you know,
especially in the college basketball arena. And you know, I'm
turning forty four soon, and you know, I grew up
in a different era. I have six kids who are
(01:35):
growing up in this time and playing sports, and man,
even as a parent, it's sometimes challenging. And I want
to ask you as far as the landscape of coaching
is concerned. You know, it seems like the word discipline
and accountability at times gets a bad rap. I feel
like people tied discipline with like extreme cases. And you know,
(01:56):
but then I look at some of the most successful coaches,
whether it be in college basketball or any sport for
that matter, and it seems like there's always accountability there's
always energy, there's always passion. How does discipline, accountability and
those things get misconstrued with kind of people talk about abuse.
I mean to me, it seems like it's pretty easy
to separate, but at times there's a fine line. And
can you kind of get into that a little bit
(02:17):
where we went wrong and how that took place?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yeah, absolutely, because I think discipline is like sacrifice. Those
words so many times are looked at as four letter words,
you're not the good ones, and it's and they're so
far from that. I mean, there's no question that you
take those words and right away, and so many people
there's a negative connotation that just it almost puts a
(02:40):
period at the end of the sentence before you can
ever get anywhere else, or an exclamation point, And there's
so many different ways to get it across. And I
think it's like anything else in this world, You've got
to continue to find words that register. You got to
find phrases after you teach something. It's so much about reminders.
And I think when you look at discipline, when you
look at sacrifice, when you look at accountability, I think
(03:03):
you got to look at standards. Hey, it's a really
cool word right. Standards is a cool word, but it's
not something it just comes to mind that people just automatically.
It just registers on what that means. So you have
to give people, give young people what those standards are.
And so much of it is the discipline that you
need to be successful. It is like you mentioned your energy,
(03:25):
it's your enthusiasm, it's your attention to the things that
the details in what you're doing. Okay, that inches matter,
you know, feet matter, whatever it is, you know, body angles,
all those different things matter, and those become part of
the standards. And then I think the other thing. It's
(03:47):
so big. And this is one thing that's really hard
for coaches at times, it's hard for parents that it's
okay to have expectations. And it's not expectations of Okay,
you've got to score twenty, you've got to hit x
amount of home runs, you've got to be able to
pass for X amount of yards, you've got to get
x amount of touches or targets or catches. No, no,
(04:07):
it's not that. It's the expectation for how you should
handle things. And to me, the personal part of it
starts so much, okay, with how you are as a teammate,
and the expectation that you have or your child or
your player as a teammate, as somebody then that is coachable,
as somebody that has the right type of body language,
(04:31):
the right type of eye contact, you know, all those things.
Those become expectations that can then lead into Okay, here's
the amount of work that you have to put in.
Here's the amount of time you have to spend on this,
here's the type of things you have to work on,
and the standards become. Okay, if you're going to get
better and be a complete basketball player, you can't only
(04:52):
work on what you're good at. You've got to do
x amounts maybe with your left hand if you're a
right handed player, or you've got to do x amount
shooting free throws, or you've got to do x amount
when it comes to one on one defense, whatever it is,
whatever sport is. And you help chet those standards because
you have expectations of your child or your player to
(05:16):
do certain things well and right and consistently, and that
in time turns into being where the production comes from.
And I think so many times people see expectations as
X amount of wins, the X amount of results for
their individual sport, and that, to me is not what
it is. It's all the things that lead into that
(05:37):
that then give you a fighting chance or a better
chance to achieve those results of those individual accolades that
people like to see you get in your own life.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I love that word standards, and it's funny. I've never
really dug into that word, but you know words are
so powerful. And to take it a step further, sure,
there's certain standards that you have when you get to college.
You know, when you're becoming a college athlete, then there's
certain stands a high school. Is there such thing as
age appropriate? And I love you to get into that
because you know, my oldest is eighteen. He's getting ready
(06:06):
to go wrestle in college. And I also have a
five year old almost five year old, and I got
four others in between. And I don't parent my eighteen
year old the same as I do my five year old.
Right now, I have standards for all of them, but
how much does age? Because I want you know, parents
who may not have a college or or you know,
high level playing sport experience themselves, are really walking around
(06:28):
this culture. Coach, like, what do I do you know what,
I got this at this ex pro who's running this club,
who's telling me I got to specialize all year long
at nine in order for my kid to have a shot.
And then I got this other guy telling me it's okay,
play everything. And you know, people are confused, their kids
are gonna miss out, they're afraid.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
How do they.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Manage being pushed and pulled? And also I would love
for you to not only speak to the parents of
how they navigate that, but also to the coaches what
is age appropriate? Is there a difference how you should
coach your seventeen U Premier team versus your seven U
Miss Machene pitch team. For lack of a better express.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Absolutely, absolutely there's a difference. And that's where standards are different.
Fundamental standards are different, All those things are different. Here's
three things that I think are relevant to age, and
especially when when you just said between eighteen and five,
and I think obviously it's different how you get them across.
But I think these three things are absolutely crucial no
(07:26):
matter what age. And first and foremost, okay, from the
side of being on a team or learning skills, you've
got to be a teammate you've got to keep teaching
ways to be a better teammate, and so many times
being a better teammate, especially when they're younger, is how
you react. And that's where number two comes in, which
(07:48):
is incredibly important. What leads into the coachability part of it,
and that's your body language. There have got to be
standards and expectations for young people three team teen, high teen,
college age, whatever it is, especially in pro level, but
there's got to be You've got to have expectations in demands.
(08:09):
You've got to be able to make those corrections, make
those renders, make those adjustments, show it. And so many
times there's parents they're filming every move their kids make,
which is not totally wrong. I'm not saying that's negative
at all, But when's the last time somebody filmed them
having an interaction with a referee or a teammate or
on the bench, or showing frustration at a call or
(08:32):
a non call or something with the homeplate, umpire or
the referee. Showing those things, you know, the visual tool
and coaching, and I've coached in college for so long
that the visual tool of showing somebody not only what
they're doing well, not only what they're doing right when
it comes to the actual game, but showing them on
a bench, showing their reaction to a teammate, showing their
(08:55):
reaction to a referee, and at times it's private and
at times it's in front of everybody else because you
really have to and this is a strong word, but
it's a very important word. You have to be able
to pierce people and children and your players at times
with them really getting the message. And I don't mean
piercing in a negative, physical nasty at all, but you've
(09:18):
got to be able to get their attention. They got
to absorb it, right, because the only way they're going
to apply it is if they've absorbed it. And what
you and I absorb as adults, or what you and
I absorb as coaches, is a lot different than what
our players absorb. And that's where the age part gets
so crazy, right, because eighteen to five is a huge difference,
(09:41):
which you still have to get their attention. So I
think when you look at being a teammate and all
the different ways you can build that, when you look
at your body language, which leads to your coachability, because
eye contact, how you listen, how you respond, how you talk.
That's all part of the body language. And then third,
and this is where I think when it's parents, if
(10:03):
they're doing it themselves, but when they are studying people
that are going to be with their children, okay, are
they helping build them athletically? And in so many cases
the younger they are, it's flexibility, it's stuability, right, it's
making sure they're able to function in so many different
(10:23):
ways athletically. It could be sprints, it could be all
these different things that are so important to help your
kids build their athleticism. The strength is a different component,
and I think so many times people see strength and conditioning,
is it all encompassing things? No, it's really not training
ripe speed training, endurance training, flexibility, building your hands, building
(10:49):
your feet, ankle and foot stability all right, and being
able to make sure that as you go up the
ladder that your feet and your ankles are in the
shape and that you're building those type of things. And
that's why for me, I've never been caught up with
our own children, especially my son who played more sports,
(11:10):
or in recruiting, to have to find a specialist, to
have to find somebody that will year round with a
sport because I think that can create a lot if
you want to do it, it's great, but at some
point in time throughout that you've got to put the
fact are they truly having fun with this training? Are
they truly having fun with the games, or is it
(11:33):
becoming something that becomes so stressful because that's all they're
doing that they're not really challenging their mind. And a
good book to read on that is Ranged by David Epstein.
It's really really good. It's out in paperback now. There's
so many books that hit that, but books for me
and I know you didn't ask this, but I think
(11:53):
this is really good for parents. Read a book called
The Talent Code by Daniel Coyle that teaches you so
much about out people that are in all these different
places that they might have been specialists, they might not
have been, but they had the right training. There's a
book called The gold Mine by Rasmus Ankerson who's from
(12:13):
the Netherlands. I believe, or I believe it's another those
but it's a great book where these people they went
and they dove into why people were successful from certain areas,
how they trained, and what you find out is it's
a lot about what we're talking about. It's okay to
have expectations for your kids. It's okay to have standards
for your kids. It's how you go about it that's
(12:34):
the trick, and that's the key.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
David Epstein's fun I had him as a guest on
last year. Couldn't agree with you more with regard to range.
He really breaks it down, gives so many examples. It's
a great episode. I hope everyone, if they haven't listened yet,
check it out. But what did you first become a
college head coach?
Speaker 1 (12:50):
What year was it? It was nineteen ninety nine. I
got my job at Marquette on my thirty third birthday.
I was coaching at Michigan State. We're getting ready to
go to the Final four. I accept their job on
a Wednesday night. We announced it the following Tuesday, and
I got it on my thirty third birthday. My wife
and I were sitting there and it was incredible. Meeting
(13:11):
Web of Bay Athletic director and flown up to East Lansing.
Bill Kurt's been from thirty three on. So nineteen ninety
nine two thousand was my first year at Marquette.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
You also coached many above average players, but one in
particular d Wade, Dwayne Wade. And also, did you coach
Jimmy Butler too?
Speaker 1 (13:27):
No, I left. Buzz Williams was my assistant, got the job,
and he recruited and signed Jimmy Butler. I had left
to go to Indiana. Oh, miss Jimmy by a year.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Fair enough? Well, I guess Ryle I wanted to ask
that question. My sophomore year at college playing baseball was
nineteen ninety nine. And you know, but since the late nineties,
early two thousands till now, I believe that there's been
a dramatic shift. I mean, coach, we often hear and
I'm sure you see it as well. People especially on
social media, will say kids are soft these days. You know,
kids are kids, aren't coacha. But whatever the case is, Well,
(13:59):
I stand back, I'm a parent, and I'm like, you know,
kids only know what they're taught, you know. To me,
it's sure if some people may think they're soft, well,
a lot of times they're cuddled. You know, they're not
allowed to fail, they're not allowed to struggle, they're not
put in positions where they have to overcome adversity. How
much have you seen from your experience of your first
year of being a college head coach in ninety nine
at thirty three, you know, till the last time you
(14:21):
coached in college, and even now where you've seen the
landscape shift maybe with the kids that you're bringing in,
and has there been an issue with resiliency as a
direct result of maybe them being coddled too much versus
the kids you got early on.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
I think there's some of that, absolutely. I definitely think
there's some of that. I don't think there's as much
sometimes as people think. I mean, there is issues, but
the reasons so many times, and I go back to this,
the word expectations. I think too many times parents coaches
when they're younger, they don't have enough expectations for those
(14:54):
things we're talking about. The expectations become results. The expectations
become points, they become home runs, they become hits, they
become goals, they become all wins, right, and you want
to teach them to win. I'm not saying that at all,
But I'm also saying that you've got to have expectations
for how they train, how they work, how they treat others,
(15:17):
because if you don't build those then you're really really
negating their ability to do what I think is getting
harder and harder all the time, which is to solve
your own problems. Because the way the world continues to evolve,
and it becomes so easy, okay, to not have to
be verbal in this world, it becomes so easy to
(15:38):
not have to talk. It becomes so easy to become
isolated that you've got to teach them to be able
to make decisions, to have a feel for what makes
a decision. I see this in recruiting. I think this
is definitely happening more and more. That's why there's so
many different voices in kids' lives. And now with the name,
image and likeness situation where you can have agents. I
(15:59):
know of story where a coach may call a young
person a player that's transferring, and they don't even want
to discuss it. Call my agent, Call my agent, call
my parents, and down the road. Then you've got kids
that aren't truly having to make decisions for what they want.
And I think that starts at a young age. And
(16:19):
I think there's way too much acceptance of it's not
going well for me, Okay, So I'm going to find
a way to blame. I'm going to find a way
to be critical. I'm gonna find a way to be negative.
I'm going to find a way to take that from me.
And I think when parents allow that to happen, and
it's always somebody else's fault, it's somebody else's on the team,
(16:42):
it's the coach isn't doing them right or playing them right.
When you allow that to happen, it just keeps manifesting
itself down the road. There are two places, all right,
where a kid is going to look when he's playing
on a field, when he's playing on a floor, okay,
when he's playing in a stadium, when he's playing on
a court, he's going to be looking at his coach
(17:02):
or coach is for how they're reacting, and they're going
to be looking at their parents. And the more that
they can find a place, okay, where they can feel
like a victim in the situation, where they can feel like,
oh man, I'm being wronged and my parents agree with me.
Or it's not going right for me and my parents
agree with me. Or I'm not getting the ball enough
(17:24):
and I can tell my parents agree with me. Those
are bad things. Those are hard to grow out. If
I was coaching at Indiana, we had a player that
had an issue because because you've got to be able
to grow out of looking at your family, looking at
your mom and dad as you go down the line
in sports, you've got to be able to grow out
of that. But if you become somebody, okay, that goes
(17:47):
through a period of time where you feel better because
you look over because they're commiserating with you, all right,
or they're helping validate you know. It's one thing to clap,
it's one thing to give at the boys and keep
going and all those kinds of things. Those things are good,
but when they look over and see that negative body language,
it might feel them in a negative way, but it's
(18:07):
certainly going to bring stress to them. And I had
an NBA team in to tell and we're talking about
a player, and he said, tell so and so to
quit looking at his dad every time he makes a
play in a game or every time somebody goes wrong,
because his dad won't be sitting anywhere near the court
of the NBA. And it was like it was a
really good point because as you go up the ladder,
(18:29):
they notice those things. The college coaches that the professional scouts,
they notice those type of things. So if you allow
that to manifest itself and they see you in the
stands complaining and ripping somebody and ripping the refs constantly
and yelling at the coach, it just brings stress and
it becomes something that they don't have the tools so
(18:52):
many times when they're younger to be able to get
out of because as you and I both know, then
a lot of times that carries into the car ride,
and then that becomes even worse because now you're trapped.
Now the kid is trapped, there's nowhere to go, and
that's where it becomes so hard and his parents we've
got to guard against that constantly. Constantly, we have to
(19:13):
guard against that and help them grow because they are
going to get wrong, they are going to go through
hard times, they are going to have bad games, they
are going to play with selfish teammates, they are going
to get messed around by a coach here and again.
But they've got to be able to deal with it
to have any success moving forward.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
When we come back, Coach Creede and I discuss why
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(20:37):
Where we left off, Tom and I were about to
talk about the importance of being able to read your
kid in order to find the right time to bring
up difficult conversation. I love how you brought up the
car ride and you just because that is like such
a I mean, think about there's no one there, right,
there's no one, you know, it's your your one on one.
Everyone's in the moment. You got emotions, you know. I
remember as a young player. You know, you're sitting there
(21:00):
and maybe you didn't have a great game, and you
could just I love my God rest his soul, my father.
But it was like you wouldn't get mad, but I
could just tell God what happened, you know, And I
don't want to explain to shut up dad. You know
in my head I didn't have it bad. But any
type of negativity, you just don't want to hear it
from your parents. At least I didn't. I was lucky though,
I had a great you know, great parents who didn't
really give it to me. But my dad was a
(21:20):
competitor and a coach in his own right. But how
do you harness that energy, coach, because I mean, listen,
you're a parent, you're also a coach. You know, you're
coach for a living I heard a great example. I
forget which guest said it to me, but talked about
literally had a visualization of he coaches his kids, you know,
in the youth game or whatever. And then it's almost
(21:40):
like he gave an analogy. When I have my hat on,
I'm coach, but when I get in the car, I
take my hat off, I'm dad. And I thought that
was a great, a great way for a young kid
to be able to understand, right and to set that boundary.
How do you navigate that? Because parents, you know, we
get excited, right, we're passionate.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
How do you navigate that energy? That's hard because I've
made many mistakes and I'm going to tell you this
is not about do it just as I've done it
type of thing. I've made those mistakes, and I think
because we're invested, you have passion. There's an old saying
that Doc Rivers said to me one time. I don't
know if he coined it, but he's the one I
heard it from that a parent is only as happy
as their unhappy as child. And that is a very
(22:20):
true statement. I mean, it's any parent understands that completely.
And it's hard. It's very hard. You're invested, you're passionate.
You want to see them do well. You want to
share in their joy, you want to take their pain away,
all those different things. And I think the things that
I have learned over a period of time that are
so important is you have to be able to read
(22:42):
your kid. You have to be able to read when
is that time to bring it up? Because anybody says, well,
don't bring it up. No, I don't agree with that whatsoever.
I mean, that's part of You've got to have conversations
if you feel that they're warranted. That's part of parenting,
that's part of helping them learn. So it's not about that.
It's really about processing your thoughts okay, and not letting
(23:04):
emotion and being emotional right take over from the beginning
it's almost okay, fine. It's like you try to get
your players to know there are three things. You go
into a press conference, you meet with a reporter, you know,
you've got to have a couple of things you can
go back to, right, And it might be two for some,
it might be three for another. You know, we always
(23:24):
try to say, okay, let's make sure when you get stuck, okay,
when you get into a situation, have a couple of
things that you can go back to that make sure
you never leave talking to the press, talking to somebody
without praising at least two teammates and a coach, right
and so like, I would always try to get players
to focus on that rather than the emotional response they
(23:45):
might give, so that they don't get stuck. And it
doesn't always work, but you try to give them that
platform and that organization in their mind. Not the same
for us as parents. You get a couple of thoughts,
you're going to wait for the right time, and then
you do the hardest thing, which is you just breathe.
You take deep breaths, You get your you help your
child settle in. Maybe you talk about something else, but
(24:09):
you breathe, you process, and you just wait for the
right time, and you do everything you can do. Okay,
because I know some of my worst moments as a coach,
and when I went right into the locker room after
a tough game and start going right. You got to
be able to process it. There's a reason that a
lot of great coaches say the best three words you
(24:31):
can use after a game when you're not feeling right
is bring it in right, bring it in, and then
deal with it tomorrow. Well, a lot of times in
that car ride you're going to deal with it, but
you can't deal with it immediately. Wait for the timing,
have your thoughts in process, and then let them talk.
The best thing to try to do is a parent
(24:53):
to get that level of engagement going with your kid
is once it's settled in. Now again, they can't the
kid is not doesn't get to sit there and fight
it off and not talk at all. Right that You've
got to teach them to process their feelings. But you
can't just give them questions that can be answered with
a yes or no. You can't give them questions that
(25:14):
are just one two three word answers. You want to
try to formulate questions in your head or things that
you want to ask or things that you want to
cover that will register with them. And go back to
that word absorb. You want them to absorb what they're
hearing so that they can apply it and then you
kind of take it from there. And I think those
are some of the most They're hard to do, but
(25:36):
I think those are some of the best ways to
do it.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Coach Crean, this is freaking awesome. I can't think, you know,
where can people get up with you? Follow because you
put out some amazing content.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Man, I think my Twitter is at Tom Crean. So
I didn't do I didn't pay for the blue check,
but I still let me see what I have here. Yeah,
at Tom Crean. And and I'm on Instagram. I don't
do a lot with Insta, but that's where it's at
for the most part. ESPN. This year again for the
(26:05):
college basketball season, I'll be doing that. But I try
to think of things that I would want to hear,
that I would want to know, and I try to
put those out there. And so I really appreciate it.
Nick having a chance to be on with you.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
I appreciate you, coach. That's Tom Cream, ESPN College Basketball Analyst.
Thanks for listening to the Reform Sports Podcast. If you've
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You've got to have expectations for how they train, how
they work, how they treat others, because if you don't
build those then you're really negating their ability to do
what I think is getting harder and harder all the time,
which is to solve your own problems. Because the way
the world continues to evolve, it becomes so easy to
(00:23):
not have to be verbal.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
This is the Reform Sports Project, a podcast about restoring
healthy balance and perspective in all areas of sports through
education and advocacy. Hi, this is Nick Bonacor from the
Reform Sports Podcast. Today, I'm speaking with Tom Crane, college
basketball analyst for ESPN and former Division I head coach.
Prior to rejoining ESPN in twenty twenty two, Tom served
(00:48):
as a head men's basketball coach at Georgia, Indiana and Marquette,
winning over four hundred games throughout his twenty plus coaching career.
Coach Crean and I discuss what it means to be
a good teammate, teaching kids how to advocate for themselves,
elves and make their own decisions, and why it's important
for kids to grow out of looking at their parents
for validation while playing coach Tom Creane, Man, I am
(01:08):
freaking fired up. I'm excited to have you coach. Thanks
so much for joining.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Well, thanks for asking me that I appreciate it, and
then I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Well, I appreciate you. I know that we're we're talking
about something that you're not only experienced with, but it's
certainly passionate with. And where I want to start with you, coaches,
is I talked to several and had several guests on
you know, high level coaches like yourself, and you know,
especially in the college basketball arena. And you know, I'm
turning forty four soon, and you know, I grew up
in a different era. I have six kids who are
(01:35):
growing up in this time and playing sports, and man,
even as a parent, it's sometimes challenging. And I want
to ask you as far as the landscape of coaching
is concerned. You know, it seems like the word discipline
and accountability at times gets a bad rap. I feel
like people tied discipline with like extreme cases. And you know,
(01:56):
but then I look at some of the most successful coaches,
whether it be in college basketball or any sport for
that matter, and it seems like there's always accountability there's
always energy, there's always passion. How does discipline, accountability and
those things get misconstrued with kind of people talk about abuse.
I mean to me, it seems like it's pretty easy
to separate, but at times there's a fine line. And
can you kind of get into that a little bit
(02:17):
where we went wrong and how that took place?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yeah, absolutely, because I think discipline is like sacrifice. Those
words so many times are looked at as four letter words,
you're not the good ones, and it's and they're so
far from that. I mean, there's no question that you
take those words and right away, and so many people
there's a negative connotation that just it almost puts a
(02:40):
period at the end of the sentence before you can
ever get anywhere else, or an exclamation point, And there's
so many different ways to get it across. And I
think it's like anything else in this world, You've got
to continue to find words that register. You got to
find phrases after you teach something. It's so much about reminders.
And I think when you look at discipline, when you
look at sacrifice, when you look at accountability, I think
(03:03):
you got to look at standards. Hey, it's a really
cool word right. Standards is a cool word, but it's
not something it just comes to mind that people just automatically.
It just registers on what that means. So you have
to give people, give young people what those standards are.
And so much of it is the discipline that you
need to be successful. It is like you mentioned your energy,
(03:25):
it's your enthusiasm, it's your attention to the things that
the details in what you're doing. Okay, that inches matter,
you know, feet matter, whatever it is, you know, body angles,
all those different things matter, and those become part of
the standards. And then I think the other thing. It's
(03:47):
so big. And this is one thing that's really hard
for coaches at times, it's hard for parents that it's
okay to have expectations. And it's not expectations of Okay,
you've got to score twenty, you've got to hit x
amount of home runs, you've got to be able to
pass for X amount of yards, you've got to get
x amount of touches or targets or catches. No, no,
(04:07):
it's not that. It's the expectation for how you should
handle things. And to me, the personal part of it
starts so much, okay, with how you are as a teammate,
and the expectation that you have or your child or
your player as a teammate, as somebody then that is coachable,
as somebody that has the right type of body language,
(04:31):
the right type of eye contact, you know, all those things.
Those become expectations that can then lead into Okay, here's
the amount of work that you have to put in.
Here's the amount of time you have to spend on this,
here's the type of things you have to work on,
and the standards become. Okay, if you're going to get
better and be a complete basketball player, you can't only
(04:52):
work on what you're good at. You've got to do
x amounts maybe with your left hand if you're a
right handed player, or you've got to do x amount
shooting free throws, or you've got to do x amount
when it comes to one on one defense, whatever it is,
whatever sport is. And you help chet those standards because
you have expectations of your child or your player to
(05:16):
do certain things well and right and consistently, and that
in time turns into being where the production comes from.
And I think so many times people see expectations as
X amount of wins, the X amount of results for
their individual sport, and that, to me is not what
it is. It's all the things that lead into that
(05:37):
that then give you a fighting chance or a better
chance to achieve those results of those individual accolades that
people like to see you get in your own life.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I love that word standards, and it's funny. I've never
really dug into that word, but you know words are
so powerful. And to take it a step further, sure,
there's certain standards that you have when you get to college.
You know, when you're becoming a college athlete, then there's
certain stands a high school. Is there such thing as
age appropriate? And I love you to get into that
because you know, my oldest is eighteen. He's getting ready
(06:06):
to go wrestle in college. And I also have a
five year old almost five year old, and I got
four others in between. And I don't parent my eighteen
year old the same as I do my five year old.
Right now, I have standards for all of them, but
how much does age? Because I want you know, parents
who may not have a college or or you know,
high level playing sport experience themselves, are really walking around
(06:28):
this culture. Coach, like, what do I do you know what,
I got this at this ex pro who's running this club,
who's telling me I got to specialize all year long
at nine in order for my kid to have a shot.
And then I got this other guy telling me it's okay,
play everything. And you know, people are confused, their kids
are gonna miss out, they're afraid.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
How do they.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Manage being pushed and pulled? And also I would love
for you to not only speak to the parents of
how they navigate that, but also to the coaches what
is age appropriate? Is there a difference how you should
coach your seventeen U Premier team versus your seven U
Miss Machene pitch team. For lack of a better express.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Absolutely, absolutely there's a difference. And that's where standards are different.
Fundamental standards are different, All those things are different. Here's
three things that I think are relevant to age, and
especially when when you just said between eighteen and five,
and I think obviously it's different how you get them across.
But I think these three things are absolutely crucial no
(07:26):
matter what age. And first and foremost, okay, from the
side of being on a team or learning skills, you've
got to be a teammate you've got to keep teaching
ways to be a better teammate, and so many times
being a better teammate, especially when they're younger, is how
you react. And that's where number two comes in, which
(07:48):
is incredibly important. What leads into the coachability part of it,
and that's your body language. There have got to be
standards and expectations for young people three team teen, high teen,
college age, whatever it is, especially in pro level, but
there's got to be You've got to have expectations in demands.
(08:09):
You've got to be able to make those corrections, make
those renders, make those adjustments, show it. And so many
times there's parents they're filming every move their kids make,
which is not totally wrong. I'm not saying that's negative
at all, But when's the last time somebody filmed them
having an interaction with a referee or a teammate or
on the bench, or showing frustration at a call or
(08:32):
a non call or something with the homeplate, umpire or
the referee. Showing those things, you know, the visual tool
and coaching, and I've coached in college for so long
that the visual tool of showing somebody not only what
they're doing well, not only what they're doing right when
it comes to the actual game, but showing them on
a bench, showing their reaction to a teammate, showing their
(08:55):
reaction to a referee, and at times it's private and
at times it's in front of everybody else because you
really have to and this is a strong word, but
it's a very important word. You have to be able
to pierce people and children and your players at times
with them really getting the message. And I don't mean
piercing in a negative, physical nasty at all, but you've
(09:18):
got to be able to get their attention. They got
to absorb it, right, because the only way they're going
to apply it is if they've absorbed it. And what
you and I absorb as adults, or what you and
I absorb as coaches, is a lot different than what
our players absorb. And that's where the age part gets
so crazy, right, because eighteen to five is a huge difference,
(09:41):
which you still have to get their attention. So I
think when you look at being a teammate and all
the different ways you can build that, when you look
at your body language, which leads to your coachability, because
eye contact, how you listen, how you respond, how you talk.
That's all part of the body language. And then third,
and this is where I think when it's parents, if
(10:03):
they're doing it themselves, but when they are studying people
that are going to be with their children, okay, are
they helping build them athletically? And in so many cases
the younger they are, it's flexibility, it's stuability, right, it's
making sure they're able to function in so many different
(10:23):
ways athletically. It could be sprints, it could be all
these different things that are so important to help your
kids build their athleticism. The strength is a different component,
and I think so many times people see strength and conditioning,
is it all encompassing things? No, it's really not training
ripe speed training, endurance training, flexibility, building your hands, building
(10:49):
your feet, ankle and foot stability all right, and being
able to make sure that as you go up the
ladder that your feet and your ankles are in the
shape and that you're building those type of things. And
that's why for me, I've never been caught up with
our own children, especially my son who played more sports,
(11:10):
or in recruiting, to have to find a specialist, to
have to find somebody that will year round with a
sport because I think that can create a lot if
you want to do it, it's great, but at some
point in time throughout that you've got to put the
fact are they truly having fun with this training? Are
they truly having fun with the games, or is it
(11:33):
becoming something that becomes so stressful because that's all they're
doing that they're not really challenging their mind. And a
good book to read on that is Ranged by David Epstein.
It's really really good. It's out in paperback now. There's
so many books that hit that, but books for me
and I know you didn't ask this, but I think
(11:53):
this is really good for parents. Read a book called
The Talent Code by Daniel Coyle that teaches you so
much about out people that are in all these different
places that they might have been specialists, they might not
have been, but they had the right training. There's a
book called The gold Mine by Rasmus Ankerson who's from
(12:13):
the Netherlands. I believe, or I believe it's another those
but it's a great book where these people they went
and they dove into why people were successful from certain areas,
how they trained, and what you find out is it's
a lot about what we're talking about. It's okay to
have expectations for your kids. It's okay to have standards
for your kids. It's how you go about it that's
(12:34):
the trick, and that's the key.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
David Epstein's fun I had him as a guest on
last year. Couldn't agree with you more with regard to range.
He really breaks it down, gives so many examples. It's
a great episode. I hope everyone, if they haven't listened yet,
check it out. But what did you first become a
college head coach?
Speaker 1 (12:50):
What year was it? It was nineteen ninety nine. I
got my job at Marquette on my thirty third birthday.
I was coaching at Michigan State. We're getting ready to
go to the Final four. I accept their job on
a Wednesday night. We announced it the following Tuesday, and
I got it on my thirty third birthday. My wife
and I were sitting there and it was incredible. Meeting
(13:11):
Web of Bay Athletic director and flown up to East Lansing.
Bill Kurt's been from thirty three on. So nineteen ninety
nine two thousand was my first year at Marquette.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
You also coached many above average players, but one in
particular d Wade, Dwayne Wade. And also, did you coach
Jimmy Butler too?
Speaker 1 (13:27):
No, I left. Buzz Williams was my assistant, got the job,
and he recruited and signed Jimmy Butler. I had left
to go to Indiana. Oh, miss Jimmy by a year.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Fair enough? Well, I guess Ryle I wanted to ask
that question. My sophomore year at college playing baseball was
nineteen ninety nine. And you know, but since the late nineties,
early two thousands till now, I believe that there's been
a dramatic shift. I mean, coach, we often hear and
I'm sure you see it as well. People especially on
social media, will say kids are soft these days. You know,
kids are kids, aren't coacha. But whatever the case is, Well,
(13:59):
I stand back, I'm a parent, and I'm like, you know,
kids only know what they're taught, you know. To me,
it's sure if some people may think they're soft, well,
a lot of times they're cuddled. You know, they're not
allowed to fail, they're not allowed to struggle, they're not
put in positions where they have to overcome adversity. How
much have you seen from your experience of your first
year of being a college head coach in ninety nine
at thirty three, you know, till the last time you
(14:21):
coached in college, and even now where you've seen the
landscape shift maybe with the kids that you're bringing in,
and has there been an issue with resiliency as a
direct result of maybe them being coddled too much versus
the kids you got early on.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
I think there's some of that, absolutely. I definitely think
there's some of that. I don't think there's as much
sometimes as people think. I mean, there is issues, but
the reasons so many times, and I go back to this,
the word expectations. I think too many times parents coaches
when they're younger, they don't have enough expectations for those
(14:54):
things we're talking about. The expectations become results. The expectations
become points, they become home runs, they become hits, they
become goals, they become all wins, right, and you want
to teach them to win. I'm not saying that at all,
But I'm also saying that you've got to have expectations
for how they train, how they work, how they treat others,
(15:17):
because if you don't build those then you're really really
negating their ability to do what I think is getting
harder and harder all the time, which is to solve
your own problems. Because the way the world continues to evolve,
and it becomes so easy, okay, to not have to
be verbal in this world, it becomes so easy to
(15:38):
not have to talk. It becomes so easy to become
isolated that you've got to teach them to be able
to make decisions, to have a feel for what makes
a decision. I see this in recruiting. I think this
is definitely happening more and more. That's why there's so
many different voices in kids' lives. And now with the name,
image and likeness situation where you can have agents. I
(15:59):
know of story where a coach may call a young
person a player that's transferring, and they don't even want
to discuss it. Call my agent, Call my agent, call
my parents, and down the road. Then you've got kids
that aren't truly having to make decisions for what they want.
And I think that starts at a young age. And
(16:19):
I think there's way too much acceptance of it's not
going well for me, Okay, So I'm going to find
a way to blame. I'm going to find a way
to be critical. I'm gonna find a way to be negative.
I'm going to find a way to take that from me.
And I think when parents allow that to happen, and
it's always somebody else's fault, it's somebody else's on the team,
(16:42):
it's the coach isn't doing them right or playing them right.
When you allow that to happen, it just keeps manifesting
itself down the road. There are two places, all right,
where a kid is going to look when he's playing
on a field, when he's playing on a floor, okay,
when he's playing in a stadium, when he's playing on
a court, he's going to be looking at his coach
(17:02):
or coach is for how they're reacting, and they're going
to be looking at their parents. And the more that
they can find a place, okay, where they can feel
like a victim in the situation, where they can feel like,
oh man, I'm being wronged and my parents agree with me.
Or it's not going right for me and my parents
agree with me. Or I'm not getting the ball enough
(17:24):
and I can tell my parents agree with me. Those
are bad things. Those are hard to grow out. If
I was coaching at Indiana, we had a player that
had an issue because because you've got to be able
to grow out of looking at your family, looking at
your mom and dad as you go down the line
in sports, you've got to be able to grow out
of that. But if you become somebody, okay, that goes
(17:47):
through a period of time where you feel better because
you look over because they're commiserating with you, all right,
or they're helping validate you know. It's one thing to clap,
it's one thing to give at the boys and keep
going and all those kinds of things. Those things are good,
but when they look over and see that negative body language,
it might feel them in a negative way, but it's
(18:07):
certainly going to bring stress to them. And I had
an NBA team in to tell and we're talking about
a player, and he said, tell so and so to
quit looking at his dad every time he makes a
play in a game or every time somebody goes wrong,
because his dad won't be sitting anywhere near the court
of the NBA. And it was like it was a
really good point because as you go up the ladder,
(18:29):
they notice those things. The college coaches that the professional scouts,
they notice those type of things. So if you allow
that to manifest itself and they see you in the
stands complaining and ripping somebody and ripping the refs constantly
and yelling at the coach, it just brings stress and
it becomes something that they don't have the tools so
(18:52):
many times when they're younger to be able to get
out of because as you and I both know, then
a lot of times that carries into the car ride,
and then that becomes even worse because now you're trapped.
Now the kid is trapped, there's nowhere to go, and
that's where it becomes so hard and his parents we've
got to guard against that constantly. Constantly, we have to
(19:13):
guard against that and help them grow because they are
going to get wrong, they are going to go through
hard times, they are going to have bad games, they
are going to play with selfish teammates, they are going
to get messed around by a coach here and again.
But they've got to be able to deal with it
to have any success moving forward.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
When we come back, Coach Creede and I discuss why
he believes most parents are only as happy as their
unhappiest child as we go into break, I wanted to
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(19:50):
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(20:37):
Where we left off, Tom and I were about to
talk about the importance of being able to read your
kid in order to find the right time to bring
up difficult conversation. I love how you brought up the
car ride and you just because that is like such
a I mean, think about there's no one there, right,
there's no one, you know, it's your your one on one.
Everyone's in the moment. You got emotions, you know. I
remember as a young player. You know, you're sitting there
(21:00):
and maybe you didn't have a great game, and you
could just I love my God rest his soul, my father.
But it was like you wouldn't get mad, but I
could just tell God what happened, you know, And I
don't want to explain to shut up dad. You know
in my head I didn't have it bad. But any
type of negativity, you just don't want to hear it
from your parents. At least I didn't. I was lucky though,
I had a great you know, great parents who didn't
really give it to me. But my dad was a
(21:20):
competitor and a coach in his own right. But how
do you harness that energy, coach, because I mean, listen,
you're a parent, you're also a coach. You know, you're
coach for a living I heard a great example. I
forget which guest said it to me, but talked about
literally had a visualization of he coaches his kids, you know,
in the youth game or whatever. And then it's almost
(21:40):
like he gave an analogy. When I have my hat on,
I'm coach, but when I get in the car, I
take my hat off, I'm dad. And I thought that
was a great, a great way for a young kid
to be able to understand, right and to set that boundary.
How do you navigate that? Because parents, you know, we
get excited, right, we're passionate.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
How do you navigate that energy? That's hard because I've
made many mistakes and I'm going to tell you this
is not about do it just as I've done it
type of thing. I've made those mistakes, and I think
because we're invested, you have passion. There's an old saying
that Doc Rivers said to me one time. I don't
know if he coined it, but he's the one I
heard it from that a parent is only as happy
as their unhappy as child. And that is a very
(22:20):
true statement. I mean, it's any parent understands that completely.
And it's hard. It's very hard. You're invested, you're passionate.
You want to see them do well. You want to
share in their joy, you want to take their pain away,
all those different things. And I think the things that
I have learned over a period of time that are
so important is you have to be able to read
(22:42):
your kid. You have to be able to read when
is that time to bring it up? Because anybody says, well,
don't bring it up. No, I don't agree with that whatsoever.
I mean, that's part of You've got to have conversations
if you feel that they're warranted. That's part of parenting,
that's part of helping them learn. So it's not about that.
It's really about processing your thoughts okay, and not letting
(23:04):
emotion and being emotional right take over from the beginning
it's almost okay, fine. It's like you try to get
your players to know there are three things. You go
into a press conference, you meet with a reporter, you know,
you've got to have a couple of things you can
go back to, right, And it might be two for some,
it might be three for another. You know, we always
(23:24):
try to say, okay, let's make sure when you get stuck, okay,
when you get into a situation, have a couple of
things that you can go back to that make sure
you never leave talking to the press, talking to somebody
without praising at least two teammates and a coach, right
and so like, I would always try to get players
to focus on that rather than the emotional response they
(23:45):
might give, so that they don't get stuck. And it
doesn't always work, but you try to give them that
platform and that organization in their mind. Not the same
for us as parents. You get a couple of thoughts,
you're going to wait for the right time, and then
you do the hardest thing, which is you just breathe.
You take deep breaths, You get your you help your
child settle in. Maybe you talk about something else, but
(24:09):
you breathe, you process, and you just wait for the
right time, and you do everything you can do. Okay,
because I know some of my worst moments as a coach,
and when I went right into the locker room after
a tough game and start going right. You got to
be able to process it. There's a reason that a
lot of great coaches say the best three words you
(24:31):
can use after a game when you're not feeling right
is bring it in right, bring it in, and then
deal with it tomorrow. Well, a lot of times in
that car ride you're going to deal with it, but
you can't deal with it immediately. Wait for the timing,
have your thoughts in process, and then let them talk.
The best thing to try to do is a parent
(24:53):
to get that level of engagement going with your kid
is once it's settled in. Now again, they can't the
kid is not doesn't get to sit there and fight
it off and not talk at all. Right that You've
got to teach them to process their feelings. But you
can't just give them questions that can be answered with
a yes or no. You can't give them questions that
(25:14):
are just one two three word answers. You want to
try to formulate questions in your head or things that
you want to ask or things that you want to
cover that will register with them. And go back to
that word absorb. You want them to absorb what they're
hearing so that they can apply it and then you
kind of take it from there. And I think those
are some of the most They're hard to do, but
(25:36):
I think those are some of the best ways to
do it.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Coach Crean, this is freaking awesome. I can't think, you know,
where can people get up with you? Follow because you
put out some amazing content.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Man, I think my Twitter is at Tom Crean. So
I didn't do I didn't pay for the blue check,
but I still let me see what I have here. Yeah,
at Tom Crean. And and I'm on Instagram. I don't
do a lot with Insta, but that's where it's at
for the most part. ESPN. This year again for the
(26:05):
college basketball season, I'll be doing that. But I try
to think of things that I would want to hear,
that I would want to know, and I try to
put those out there. And so I really appreciate it.
Nick having a chance to be on with you.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
I appreciate you, coach. That's Tom Cream, ESPN College Basketball Analyst.
Thanks for listening to the Reform Sports Podcast. If you've
enjoyed this episode, we would appreciate it if you took
a moment to rate and review our podcast. As we
work to grow our community of supporters and advocates for
more reform sports content, please subscribe to our newsletter and
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(26:41):
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.