June 9, 2025 • 50 mins
Rennae and Caitlin swap positions on clay—the latter is done with it and Rennae wants to savor these last moments of the season on terre battue. And what a series of moments it was—two epic and drama-filled finals of this year's Roland Garros—both possessing of incredible narratives on (and off) court. We both give a full chapeau to Coco Gauff's unreal self belief and self possession in weathering the storm of Aryna Sabalenka, who played one of the most brilliant matches of the tournament to take out Iga Swiatek in the semis. On the men's side, an instant classic.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:14):
I don't remember you were screaming at the sidelines of
the WNBA or something.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
No, no, I got a cold and I went to
a Better Who concert, so I was singing to I
waited out, and then next day I woke up. I
was like done. Anyway, Helen, Welcome to the Renee Stuff
Tennis podcast. What a week of tennis. I am in Spain.
(00:38):
I actually watched the men's final in Majorca yesterday in Spanish,
which was kind of great. But before we get to
the men's final, we have to talk about the women's
We got to talk about the tournament in general. Yes,
I have a husky voice. No, it's because I didn't
smoke a pack of cigarettes when I arrived in Spain.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
I s lifestyle just lends itself to you know, Gene
Tonic and Sie and well, we are like ships in
the European night. Because I just flew back from Athens
and watched tennis on planes, trains and automobiles this past
couple of days. We have so much to get into.
(01:21):
Let's start with the women.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I mean, it's kind of like the first time that
we were like almost speechless going into a podcast because
that match was just unhinged yesterday between Sinner and Alcarez.
But yeah, let's let's start with the women because we've
got so much to talk about. Normally it's the other
way around. Normally we're like losing our minds about the
women and we're like, all right, let's talk about the guys.
But let's give both the finals their owed drama filled
(01:48):
before we get to the finals. So I want to
just touch upon the semi finals because there were things
that happened in the semi finals that also need to
be discussed. Let's talk about the eager Hiantech match with
sable Anka, high intensity. From the get go of that match,
sable Anka would have possibly played the best set of
(02:09):
tennis I've seen from her. In the third set, she
didn't make one error, and when you think about how
many errors she made in the final, just think about
that for a second. I do believe having the roof
closed helped her a tremendous amount though, And you know,
we've sort of talked about the roof being closed and
how that helps her ability to be able to strike
the ball a lot easier. It's just in the end,
(02:31):
Sabalanka just a little bit too good.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Can you talk a little bit more about the roof
that is such an object of controversy, especially for people
who correctly understand it as being an advantage for certain players.
Obviously it came up earlier this tournament with Novak Djokovic.
Hard to imagine that IgA loses that match or at
least the third set that badly if the roof is open.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, listen, so you know, when the roof is closed,
there's no variables, there's no sun to deal where, there's
no wind to deal with. And for me, Sabalanca is
truly it helps her a lot. I think it's one
of the reasons why she plays so well in Melbourne.
It's also one of the reasons why I think Novak
has played really well in Melbourne through the years, is
that the Melbourne court is it feels quite interior. It
(03:21):
feels quite like an indoor feel because of the way
it's built. It has the roof that comes all the
way over, so there's not a lot of wind that
gets in there.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
The US Open used to be a horrible court to
play on with wind. It now doesn't suffer from the wind.
Even andre Agassi I remember him walking on the court
the first time he saw the roof closer the US
Open and he's like, oh, it's completely different. There's no wind,
and that's why it gets so hot in there. That's
why you talk about like it's better of sweating like
so much during the US Open. So all these stadiums
(03:51):
now have this roof, there's not a lot of wind.
The French Open still gets quite a lot of wind
when the roof is open. I don't know why. It's
maybe the way the stairwells a belt. The wind gets
in there differently, gets a bit swirly. And there's no question, Saballenka,
it helps someone like her because she can throw that
ball toss that brings rain. It's like twenty feet in
(04:11):
the air. When you don't have to worry about wind,
you can smash your sir, you can smash your ground strokes.
The ball is going to be in the exact right position,
and so variables do change when the roof closes, and
that's why it and helps someone like her. I was
surprised there was some pundit to like, oh, it's it's
going to help eager because it's going to slow the
conditions down. I'm like, Sablenka doesn't care if it's heavy.
(04:33):
She can hit through that. So I think that really
helped her with the roof close. Having said that, she
still had to hit the ball perfectly, and she did
that against the Eager in the third set, and that's
why she got the wind.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
So just staying on the semifinal a little bit because
the other one was quite lopsided. And obviously we'll give
Coco her fair share of do for getting to the
final and obviously what happened in the final. But you know,
one thing that we talked about a lot coming into
this tournament, titled an entire podcast episode the Worry Index,
(05:03):
and put Ega at the top of it because she
had had a rough start to the year and obviously
a rough start to clay season, which was the most
surprising probably part of all. I actually don't think this
was such a terrible tournament for her, I think considering
how she came into it, you know, losing to a surging,
almost unbeatable Sebilenka in the semifinals. Yeah, I'm sure it's disappointing. Obviously,
(05:26):
she's won the tournament a handful of times. She was
by some accounts, the favorite, but actually she wasn't my
favorite to win it because of the form that she had,
So I actually think this was sort of a positive outcome,
even though I'm sure she's disappointed. I'm sure she, you know,
would have liked to have gotten through the final, which
you know, maybe would have taken you know, a different
a different narrative turn. But actually, for me, the Ega
(05:47):
narrative is not so so dire as it was at
the beginning of the of the Rilla and Guerra swing.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, I mean, listen, I think she'd be highly disappointed.
I think when she got into the third said she
probably thought she could win that map, and the quality
was very, very good from her throughout, but that that
was just I mean, for Arena Sabalanca to not make
one unfour Sarah in that third set, that was I mean,
that's unheard of, even for her standards. So I think
(06:14):
she just got beaten in the end by a surging
as you said, better player in the and I said
it on you know, the social media's confidence is an
extra arm right when when you go into a tournament
with a lot of confidence, which she did and Eager
did not. That's where it showed in that semi final
now in the final, it was a completely different story,
(06:36):
and we do want to give some flowers to Boss
on that lucky lose, a French player who made it
all the way the semifinals, which is pretty incredible. The
difference is her heavy spin on the forehand, which hurt
a lot of players in the tournament because you don't
see that a lot on the w TA two. Most
women have flatterer brown strokes. Boss Won's frehand top spin
hurt a lot of players, you think about it, Jessica Pagoula,
(06:58):
who likes the ball sort of more in her like
hip area, not above her shoulders. It didn't hurt Coco
because Coco loves Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
That's western forehand. That's like, you're exactly your strike zone.
You want that in her back end, it's exactly so
she I mean, and she just went out to lunch
on that that game.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
So for Coco it was like, oh, great, you're not
going to hit your fourhand flat to my forehand. Fine,
I can handle the spin. I move better than you.
My back ends ten times better than you. So it
was just a terrible matchup for her in the end,
and too good from Coco.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
When one thing about Boss just really quickly. She really
reminded me. She really reminded Sam. Yeah, she looked exactly
like Sam Stoser to me, she looked like Sam Stosser
in like Jenny Brady's body.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Actually, she reminded me a lot of Sam in a
lot of ways, like the really strong, you know, muscle, biceps,
storter and stature, but just that beautiful kick, serve, the
heavy forehand, you know, back end is the weakest, but
she can slice very similar to the way Sam plays.
So I expect to do well on clay going forward
in her career. I think he's going to give her
(08:02):
a ton of confidence and that big kick surve on hardcourt.
A lot of people like she should get a walkout
into Wimbledon. I'm like, look, just because someone had one
amazing tournament doesn't mean you necessarily give them a worldout,
particularly on grass. Will her game be the same on grass? No,
I don't think it will be. We'll see how she
does going forward, but in the end, you don't just go, oh,
(08:24):
let's give her a walkout right away. I didn't necessarily
agree with that statement, but hey, listen, if she's great
a player as we expect her to be, she'll make
it there. In the future.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
I'll be watching for her during the hard court swing.
I think, just like Sam stows her that, you know,
the hard courts will be a little bit more favorable
to her game style. But yeah, it was exciting to see. Okay,
now let's get into the final. WHOA. This final had everything.
It had everything. It had some extremely high moments, it
had some extremely low moments, it had some gutsy moments,
(08:57):
it had some gutless moments, It had some sort of
ugly moments afterwards. But ultimately, I think a lot of us,
especially you who called it and I was extremely dubious,
so hats off to you. I think it made a
lot of people very very very very happy, including me. Candidly,
I really like both those players. But I think, you know,
(09:18):
obviously the love we have for Cocoa Golf and some
of the tough love we've had for her this year,
I think was really, you know, amazing to experience watching
that three set thriller. What are your I know you
were very active about this on social media too, So
please just give me everything from start to finish from
your impressions, because I have very little dad.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yeah, you'll lit'll appreciate this. Our friend Daniel Crannon said,
your Twitter feed was like an RSS feed, So I
was like old days, like piping out like I was
at war. Wow. All I can say is I did
call it a little bit. I mean I did say
on ESPN dot com that I picked sabalancat slightly and
I mean slightly. But then during the match, what I
(10:01):
noticed immediately in that first set when it was full
one to sable Anca and she hit that serf to
got five one I believe, and it was called a
let and everything changed after that, and I saw her
anxiety level hit the roof. I mean, I have not
seen her lose her marbles like I saw it in
this match from that moment on, and I saw Coco
(10:23):
just calmly dig her way back into the match. And
I knew even if she lost that first set, I
felt like she knew that that arena was at her
wits end. And I knew as soon as she broke
in that first game the second set, I'm like, this
is a completely different match. It's now coming down to
(10:44):
then you hit winners against me because I Am not
going to miss Coco goth And that's how she was
when she won the US Open. When she won all
those tournaments leading to the US Open a couple of
years ago, she was in lockdown mode. She was not
going to miss replyn She's not gonna hit winners on it,
but she's not going to miss it. She wasn't double folding.
She double folded nine times in the match, I think,
but for her that's not too bad, particularly against Sabolenka,
(11:06):
who one time she lost I think six, four, seven, five,
and third hitting nineteen double folds. So I'm like nine
is nothing for her. And I just felt the crowd
was on her side. She was not missing. Sablenka was losing.
I mean, it was like she was a crackhead. It
was like not with control. How out of control she
was with her players box in the final, it was
(11:28):
I got interpreted what she was saying to them. She
was yelling at them, why are you even effing here?
It was just like NonStop and that's just stress and
her outward clear emotions got the better of her. But
Coco was like steady Eddy and she was not going
to miss under pressure and the key for her in
(11:49):
the end, And I said it leading into the last
game when she served for the match. Get your first
serve in the court, no matter what. You don't need
to get a free point on your serve. You're beating
her in the rallies, the crowded behind you, stay in
the moment, get the first serve in the court. And
that's what she did in the last game, and that's
what she hasn't done in a couple of big matches
(12:10):
of late where she's double folded and she's given her
opponent the win are basically and Sabalanca missed on that
one break point in this four or five game. A
second serve terrible era off of the return. That's where
you have to make the return if you SABALANKI don't
need to go for the winner there. And she went
(12:30):
for the winner and missed it. And you could tell
Kirker was like, oh, okay, you know what, she's not
hitting the winners like she would normally because she's lost
her mind. Let me get back to making my first serve,
which he did and she ended up winning the match.
And I mean, she hit that shank forehand on match
point at landon on the line. But you know what,
players hit balls, shank balls. They hit the line all
(12:51):
the time. And you have to be able to handle yourself.
And Sabalanca made an error on that backhand, and you
know on Instagram and on Twitter and all these speeds,
like she made seventy unforced eras she gave her the match.
I'm like people, it's like when Steffie Graft used to
lose to a rancher, Sanchez mccaria, a rancher had a
losing record against Steffie, but when she beat her, it
(13:12):
was because she made Steffie play one more ball and
Steffie got a little bit nervous and she'd miss. And
that's what Coco did to sabal Anka. Saballenka pressed because
she's playing against the fastest player we've ever seen on tour,
making more balls than anybody we've ever seen on tour.
And on top of it, when the ball goes to
her backhand, she can hit a winner on it. And
(13:34):
her forehand was great and she mixes the different spins
and Petko has talked about it on this podcast. She
had those big heavy spins on the forehand and then
she smashes the back end. Then she's chipping the forehand.
She's not making an error and that made Sabalanka miss
and that is all it comes down to. Tennis is
about hitting the ball in between the lines and winning
(13:54):
the point. And that's what she did better than Sablenka.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
I thank you for that. Soup to nuts, incredible sort
of recap of a lot of different things, tactical, emotional, mental,
I think the thing that is really stuck with me
and something I don't give Coco enough credit for, because
God knows, I've been critical of her game from time
to time again out of love, because I love who
(14:19):
she is. I love the the on and off court both.
You know, she's a representative of the game, she's showing
up at the things, she's political like, everything about her
I can't help but love at times the game itself.
It's so hard to for me to love a big, hitting, aggressive,
(14:40):
you know, sort of alpha player. That is is just
sort of my preference, which is why I have a
lot of time, hard time appreciating the counterpunchers. But what
I think I super super super am impressed by with
Coco is everything you just talked about in terms of resilience,
in terms of just extreme mental fortitude, the ability to
commit and refuse to lose, and the ability to hang
(15:03):
in even though you're going through you know what is uh,
you know, sort of adversity, certainly with the first set
with Arena getting up because as you said, when I
saw that Coco had leveled the first set, I thought, okay,
even if she loses this, now it's a match. The
only way Arena wins it matches blows her off the court, and.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Don't forget go was up full one in the tiebreak
as well, so there was a little bit of oh damn,
I could have won that set, but I think it
set her to go, I can win this match.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
That's right. And I think one of the things that
came out afterwards and shout out to New Balance and
a couple of her other like sponsors and partners who
work with her because they've done such a wonderful job
obviously that they put her in Mew Mew, which later
ended up not like adhering to the rules of the
f FT, which honestly is probably its own podcast, because
the f FT as much to love as I give
this slam, like who man, you understand, Yeah, a lot
(15:52):
of reasons, their digital content takedown requests for digital creators,
their rules there, you know, as a good body. We
have some notes, But for me, the fact that Coco
Goff wrote not only to herself a manifestation letter saying,
I will win the US, I will win the French Open,
I will win Rollangaros, I will be victorious in Paris,
(16:14):
and just reinforcing belief, the fact that she had like
a dream about it three or four years ago and
it was sort of like courageous and vulnerable enough to
put it out there. Like I just feel from a
human being perspective, you know, it's hard not to love Coco,
but I think she's such an exemplary human because of
how she gracefully and graciously and elegantly handles hardship, and
(16:37):
how she gracefully and elegantly and I think really inspirationally
handles victory and success. And she willed herself into that position,
and I think there is something for all of us.
I cannot hit like Arina Seblinka, and I never will,
and I never could. I can't run as fast as
Coco Goff, and I never can and I never will.
But I can imagine going through things that are hard
(16:58):
and having self belief and willing myself into a position
by having unwavering sort of commitment, and I think that,
to me is just unbelievably impressive. And I think every
single person who saw that, whether they understood that what
was happening or not, can take something away from that,
including Arena Sbalanca. I don't think that was her takeaway,
which we should also talk about, because she was salty
(17:21):
in a way that was I don't think befitting a
Grand Slam champion and a leader of our game, candidly,
but just to stay in Coco for a second, I
think for me, when you strip away all the tactics,
when you strip away all the head to heads, when
you strip away some of the stuff that you know,
we tend to get caught up in from results, and
you just focus on the fact that this is a
person who committed. It's sort of staggering and it's so
(17:45):
well deserved, and I'm really happy for her.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
I just know what's at such a young age to
be that mature and that graceful about things. And let's
not forget this was a kid that came on to
the to her with a big splash. Oh yeah, a
lot of pressure on her shoulders. And the fact that
she has now backed it up by winning two Grand
(18:08):
Slams on two different surfaces. Is testament to her upbringing
her parents her team. I got to give her credit for,
you know, adding a couple of different people to her
team in the last six months. It's just a fantastic
display of resilience and just her as a person, and
(18:29):
you know, knowing her the little bit that I do,
what you get is what you see. And she is
a special kid, and I'm We're so lucky to have
her in the game. Let's talk about what afterwards. Let's
talk about what happened afterwards. It was I immediately I
when Arena got up and listen, I have not lost
in the finals of a singles Grand Slam, but I've
(18:52):
lost in a doubles Grand Slam on that very court.
I have lost matches where I want to when I
tell you, I want to leave court. I don't want
to say anything notice about my opponent. I was a
terrible loser. I'm saying it right out here in the open.
But I can tell you I've never got on the
mic as much as I've seeded my opponent or disliked
(19:15):
the way I lost and said I played terrible. You're
lucky to win. Essentially, I could not believe those world's
words came out of her mouth, and you could tell
immediately she started to cry the moment she got a
mic and I was like, oh, my heart broke for her.
The crowd were ready to put their arms around her
(19:35):
and cheer her and give her a five minute standing
ovation like they've done so many times through the years
with so many great champions, and those words came out
of her mouth and the crowd went get silent, and
I was like, oh no, no, no, reel that back,
reel that back, and she didn't reel her back. And
then she went into press and she doubled down on it,
(19:57):
and I was like, this is so bad. And I
I talked to a couple of players about this and
all of them said I was I gave her impossible
what she said on the court, because.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
The seconds after losing, you got a microphone in your face,
your brain has scrambled eggs, been there, and also you've
been holding the microphone. I get why you are emotional
and maybe say some less than charitable things. Fine, no way, yes,
doubling down in the press conference and basically calling like
let's just illuminate and elucidate some of the things that
she said, which were, among other things, the match was
(20:28):
lost because she played badly, no credit to Coco. The
the semi final that she played and beat Ego would
have beaten Coco, which like, maybe if that is true,
maybe just does that need to be spoken out loud,
not at all? Just doubling down, uh, and yeah, kind
(20:51):
of throwing a tantrum in a way that I felt like,
you know, now that you've had some time to reflect this,
you've showered off, maybe you've debriefed with your box who,
as you said, she was pretty salty to in a
way that I didn't love. And again, you know, I
hated the moment. And we've had a lot of you know,
back and forth about various players getting motivated by various things.
You know, people like Novak obviously like that sort of conflict.
(21:11):
Other people, you know, need to hear constant support. You know,
I'm willing to kind of give some leeway, although I
wouldn't like to be talked to you like that if
I were her coaching team. But yeah, the doubling down
in the press and just the amount of text messages
I got from casual fans over the weekend being like,
ish this, I.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Got a lot to I got a lot of I
got a lot of Oh man, I loved sable Anca.
But I don't know anymore, like you know, she she
It took her twenty four hours after that to write
a you know, an apology essentially on Instagram. But I'm like, girlfriend, no,
(21:49):
that was so bad, and there's there's no excuses for it, Like,
there's just none. And that's coming from me, who, as
I said, I've said some stuff in press. I've said
some like you never take it away from your opponent.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Especially that a Grand sam final like that, especially with
the player who has also beaten you in another Grand
Sume final. It's not like she got lucky. And this
was the first time anyone has ever heard of Coco.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
It's like and also, but Caitlin, you have to know
as an opponent. You have to know as a player,
what are you attributes that your opponent does well and
frustrating the hell out of you and getting one more
ball back in the court. Nobody onto I does it
better than Poco well? And you know on clay you
have to have controlled aggression and if you don't have
(22:34):
controlled aggression, you are going to lose, and so you
have to give credit to your opponent no matter what.
And that's what happened in this match.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Yeah, I think what was sort of astonishing to me
about it was not only was it kind of like,
I get how it was salty, I get how it
was you know, emotional and painful, but I also didn't
think it was particularly self aware in a way that
was like, you know, oh, you want to be able
to take away something from the match. We'll get to
this in a second, because I think there was some
interesting insights similarly from Alcoriz and Center, although obviously opposite ones,
(23:06):
which is just like, understand what happened. You got tight,
you overhit, You were being out out maneuvered and out
mentally mentally positioned by somebody who has your number in
this way, like is your game possessing of more fireworks
and more exciting? Certainly to me absolutely, that said, the
(23:27):
tools don't count if you can't utilize them in the
right way, in a smart way, and the best kind
of player to play against you as somebody who can
figure out how to neutralize your weapons and get one
more ball back in the court, which clearly has not
only worked in this match, but has worked in finals
that you've played before, including at the US Open. So
like I found it not only ungracious, I found the
lack of self awareness, yes, sort of like And also,
(23:50):
what do you think happened out there? Do you think
she just got lucky for three sets? Like? No, you
she did that on purpose against you, dummy.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yeah. And also on top of that, you have to
also know that Caitlon Coco has one of, if not
the best back end in the game. And your backhand,
as good as Sabalanca's backhand is it can be, it
is neutralized and then hit back with more by Coco.
And so you know that her strength, her forehand is
a weakness and she's not making error because she's hitting
(24:47):
high tops of in for you, which is not where
you like the ball. And then on top of it,
when there's like a short ball, Coco doesn't try and
hit the living shit out of it like you do.
When it's in a low position in front of the
service line, she'll tip it back, she'll get it into
the court. Instead, Savallenka tries to hit the living daylights
out of it and missus it and goes, oh, well,
(25:09):
that's just unlucky. No, that's tennis. You put the ball
back in the court. That's what you're supposed to do.
And like a perfect example is when she had that
easy volley on top of the net and tried to
hit the living daylights out of it and smashed it
into the net. It ended up not costing her in
that occasion, but that's on you. You can just hit
(25:29):
that into the open court and win it, but instead
you tried to crush it and you missed it. There
are just little nuances about playing tennis that are more important,
and in the end, it's about hitting the ball over
the net and in between the lines. And that's what
Coco did, and she kept her shit together and that's
why she's holding the trophy now and now a two
time Grandsime champion. And it was great to see and
(25:50):
she was gracious and she handled herself in pressed even
after someone told her what Arena said in the press conference.
She handled that with class. This kid is so special,
so great to see. And I may have said it.
I may have said it after Rhan look out Coco,
look out for Coco at the French Open.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Yeah, you're right, now I do have to say, I
think Arena's winning Wimbledon. I really do. We'll come back
to this, but I think now she's she responds pretty
well to this kind of thing, I think, and she
we've seen it before where she goes back and gets
extra fired up. What I would like to see is
her be a little more self aware. This seems like
a really good opening for a little graciousness. And I
(26:31):
want out of my number one. I want chrisma, I
want fireworks, I want all the stuff, but I also
want a leader. And so there are ways that Arena
Seblinka can improve on and off the court, and I
you know, it's a challenge that I want her to
do it, but absolutely fantastic from my viewpoint outcome from
Coco you called it, uh, and yeah, it is wonderful
(26:53):
that we have her now is a two time Grand
Slam champion. One is not a fluke. Two is a statement.
And you know, let's see where she goes from here,
because I think this has to give her just a tremendous,
tremendous amount of confidence, self belief, and you know, if
it was lacking before, just the idea that fortitude and
resilience is something that she has obviously an abundance of.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Which we could only use, you know, all of us
London to said it forever, if she was going to
win a Slam, was going to be the French because
they're aforehand. It gives them more time. YadA, YadA, YadA.
It's the one the US Open, which surprised us of
all the slams for her to win that one over
the French. But now look out, like lookout, because her
confidence going back to the French Open is going to
(27:36):
be sky high and I cannot wait to see it
because I think her and Eger and Sabolenca are going
to be fighting for that spot for years to come.
Let's get to the guys, speaking of world number ones,
that are gracious, great role models. Oh my god, that
final before we get to that, speaking of great role
models in the sense of careers, had I think and
(28:00):
I said it, I think that's the last we're going
to see of Novak Djokovic at the French Open. That
walk off is not what we normally see. But my god,
even that semi final, the level of tennis in that
match was so sky high. Alkoraz the course got the
walk over default with Masseti MASSTI was playing great for
one set and then sort of like he's going to
(28:20):
have to work on his ability to play long five setters.
We know that it's cost him a few times now,
particularly at the French Open, But that semi final was unbelievable.
Level was so good, and I just think that Novak
sort of saw a little bit of the end of
the road going. I played really well and I didn't
(28:43):
win a set, And there's little things that Novak did
in that semi final that also showed a little bit
of his age and just his drop in level just
ever so slightly, and Sinner's ability his level is just
higher now on a consistent basis, is that Novak made
errors at times you just don't normally see it in
those moments of like years ago, and I saw the
(29:06):
errors come, just basic errors, like an easy fourhand. He
went for that one forehand on that set point and
it missed by like, you know, a good two or
three feet. Normally, if he's going to miss, it's like
maybe an inch. You just see him missing balls that
he doesn't miss usually. And I just think father time
has caught up with him in that respect. And I
think that's why he sees kind of the end of
(29:28):
the road, because listen, no Vev Jocovitch doesn't want to
lose in quarters and sent me to the Grand Slam.
Sky's won twenty four of them, and so I just
as much as I would like him to stick around
because him against Sinner and Alcarez is always so mind blowing,
but I think that's the last time we're going to
see him at the French He kind of alluded to
it almost in the press conference afterwards as well. I
think he still is a huge chance at Wimbledon. I
(29:51):
really do believe that for sure, and I think he's
thinking about maybe this rain Open because he's won it
so many times, that being his swan thong out of
the tour. But that was the fabulos semi final, but
also showed where Sinner's at, and so I don't know
if you want to talk about that semi final, and
then onto the final was.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Just I have very little to add obviously, Mussetti fitness
and injuries not kind of how you want that match
to end. But I think it was Alcoraz's match no
matter how you slice it. I do love the season
on clay that Lorenzo Mussetti has had. And I think,
you know, if for nothing else than the esthetics of
the game, the one hit a backhand, the fits, Yeah,
(30:30):
the cuteness. I mean, it's just such a good you know,
it's such a good and potent sort of I don't
want to say counter narrative, but you know, it is
starting to feel a little bit like Sinner and Alcoraz
have a lot of the oxygen. So having interesting compelling
characters with alternate game styles into late stages of matches,
like a drag japer with the big lefty, fourhanded serve
(30:52):
or Lorenzo with the one hit backhand. You know, you
want the you don't want it to just be a
two person show. I don't anyway. That always sort of
bummed me out about the like Nadal Federer years, although
I mean, you could do worse, you could do worse
than those two. But yeah, just quickly on the semifinals,
it did feel like, especially the way he talked about it,
maybe no backs last and I think he knows he's
(31:16):
not on the level and I think he sees how
hard it is to get there Wimbledon yet let's see.
But yeah, onto the final I mean what, I don't
have a lot of words for what. This is just
about as good as our sport gets. I think it's
just about as good as the sport gets. I think
before we say anything about the final, I want to
(31:36):
talk about what he didn't have. It didn't have anybody
bitching to the umpire or being a baby about the
weather or the conditions or the umpires or the ball kids.
It didn't have any like dodgy medical timeouts that take forever.
It didn't have any moments where you're kind of like,
(31:57):
oh God, this guy again with this thing. It had
two incredible respected, equally certainly equally competitive and equally interesting
narratives coming together. But it didn't have on any of
that like kind of drama like a lot of times
when Americans and I don't relish being an American all
(32:18):
the time for previous reasons, but you know, when we
watch European football and everyone's like diving all the time
and appealing to the umpire for a card, it sort
of reminds me sometimes of the men in late stage
of the tournament where they just get a little in
their feelings, you know, and I just want to call
out the refreshing lack of that. In this match. There
was no drama. The only drama was between the net
(32:40):
and the two baselines. And I think for me, that
is about as pure an advertisement for tennis as you
can possibly have. And I just want to say how
much I like that.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
I think the most contrary seal thing was seeing from
you Onixina was when he questioned the call was it
like Bible or something in a fifth set when the
serv was clearly out thirty all a massive point in
the match. I can't remember exactly the game, but it
(33:11):
was and he looks at as Raki and he's like
it was out like and he goes and he shows
the mark and that was the most the angriest you'll
aver see yn ex center on the tennis court. And
he let it go. And then afterwards, even if in
the worst speech of his life, he thanks the umpires
(33:32):
and the Luttons people. I'm like this guy, oh my god.
But that's sidebar the match. You know, when you we
kind of I nitpick at things, and he did this
and there's nothing you can say. There's nothing you can say.
Who sets the love playing unbelievable tennis? Yannick hitting the
(33:53):
ball so hard. At the beginning of this match, coming
out with this purpose of I know I've lost you
a lot. I know this is Clay, I know you
the defending champion. I know you just beat me a
couple of weeks ago. I am coming out to win
this match. And he was striking the ball so big.
It was insane how well he was hitting the ball.
(34:15):
Carlos was looking up like, I can't, how am I
going to deal with this? And he just hung in there,
down two sets to love, one love and a break
and that sort of turned the tide a little bit, right.
Carlos got the break back and I was like, okay,
and then the crowd started getting into it. The momentum
started getting by Carlos. Carlos started feeding the crowd. And
(34:36):
there's one I guess there's only one critique, but you
really it's really hard for a player that's not like
this to get the crowd on their side. Yannick is
not an outwardly emotional human being. He's very stoic. He's
very quiet, and so the crowd don't gravitate to him
like they do Carlos. Carlos's game is a lot more
(34:57):
flair and a lot more bummus and getting the and
begging the crowd to help him, and they loved it,
and they stayed with him through the entire match. And
Yanick is kind of just like you. Just he's like
that kid where you just feel sorry for it because
you like just get a little bit more emotional on
the crowd get behind you too. It's just like there
was just nothing in this match that you could critique. Nothing.
(35:21):
I mean, yes, could Yanick have served a little better
when it counted when he was serving for the match. Sure,
he didn't get a lot of first serves in that
hurt him at love forty. I don't think he could
have been more aggressive. Carlos played an incredible three points
to get back to juice. It's like it was just
(35:41):
it was just tennis at another level. It was just
the fact that John McEnroe even said that these two
at their peak could beat Yanick, could beat Ruffi on
the daling play. I don't know about that, but I mean,
this is where they have taken the sport to a
level that I actually didn't think was possible, which is
hard to imagine. They moved better than anyone I've ever
(36:02):
seen on the court. I mean, you Onix Sinner is
six foot four, he moves like he's five ten. He's slid.
He got to that one drop shot and to rebreak
at five to four in the fifth set, to go
fifteen forty on Carlos a serve and he put his
arms in the air and he was like finally getting
the crowd on his side a little bit. It was
just it had everything. And then you have Alcoraz stepping
(36:22):
into that fifth set tiebreak, playing that tie break better
than I've ever seen anyone play tennis. And one of
the things that you Nix Inner is known for is
how well he plays tiebreaks because he's usually the more
aggressive player, and he got a hand at the Carlos
because he's the one that ended up being the more
aggressive early on in that tie break, and that's what
(36:42):
got him the wind. It was. It was just mind
blowing how good it was. And then the speeches afterwards,
everything was just I couldn't agree more with you. It's
the most one of the most exceptional five and a
half hours of tennis I've ever seen.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Similarly, for those of us who can't contemplate hitting as
hard and moving as well and being as present as
a Yannick Center or somebody who can have the variety
and the bag of tricks and the incredible guts and
hutzba to to play the way that Alkaz played even
(37:23):
when his back was against the wall, especially when his
back was against the wall. You know, I struggle to
like look for ways that people can kind of get
their minds around it who don't understand just how high
the level of this tennis is, because hopefully it speaks
for itself and when you watch it, you know, I
think when you hear which is why I brought up,
(37:45):
you know, Coco's note to herself and just the self
belief and the willingness to ride through tough times on
the court to get to a place where you're now winning.
The thing that I want to make make sort of
an example of is how Alcarez talked about being down
(38:05):
not only two sets, but in that fourth set having
three match points on you know what otherwise would have been,
you know, the remaining seconds of the match, you know,
and he just says, when the situations are against you,
you have to keep fighting. It's a Grand Slam final.
It's no time to be tired. It's no time to
give up. It's time to keep fighting. Try to find
your moment, just go for it. You know, these champions
(38:28):
are made in these moments, and there's a reason it
ends up on T shirts and mugs and you know,
on plaques on the entrances to Grand Slams because it's
so trite seeming, but when you see somebody do it
in action, you were reminded as to the bravery it takes,
I think, to not lose your shit, to not stop
being courageous to you know, Yannick plays maybe one of
(38:51):
those points slightly differently or some you know, gust of
Wind carries one of Alkaaz's balls out, who knows, and
you know he would be the gracious, you know, celebratory
runner up. And the fact that Yannick, to his incredible credit,
obviously went out gave an incredible performance, was stunned in
(39:12):
the aftermath and just said, you know, I'm not sure
what the takeaway here is. It's just this happens. Sometimes
I left everything I could out there. You just have to,
you know, put this match in the past and keep
moving forward. All of that is true. All of those
things are true, you know, the skill, the bravery, the luck,
the you know, the toss of the coin a little bit,
and this is kind of how that felt to me,
which is not again not to take anything away from
(39:33):
two people just absolutely playing at their top level, but
rather just like an acknowledgment of how special that was.
And you know, there there's I think, nothing but amazing
things to expect from them both. So I couldn't be
happier with to me, honestly, both finals I thought were
very different, but the outcomes were both very, very great,
(39:54):
and I think they illustrated just how good the sport
can be, how interesting it can be, what the content
as to characters and tactics and styles is, you know.
And I think the fact that everyone involved was in
their twenties is an indication for me, which especially on
the men's side, it's been a long time since we
had somebody in a in a you know, position of
(40:15):
winning in Carlos's case, their fifth Grand Slam when they're
in their early twenties. The last time somebody did that
was literally rough at it all. So for me, the
fact that it is just the beginning for so many
of these players is a really really, really exciting prospect.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Yeah, and you think about that Sinner was about to
was one point away from winning his fourth, so they
would have been four each.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Right, So these two we never thought, you know, we
talk about this all the time. No one's gonna win
twenty again, There's no way. And I'm like, these two quids,
which is crazy, right, They're gonna have to beat each
other to do it. But as you were telling me,
you know, your sort of take on the bigger picture
of that final, I couldn't help but think about the
(40:56):
reason these two are where they are and how good
they are as tennis waz is because the interesting part
of the footprint on that court that is indelible and
going to be there for the rest of history of
Rafael Nadal, his footprint on that court, of the ultimate
warrior on clay, on that court as a sportsman, as
(41:19):
a competitor, as the guy that he is, and the
fact that those two young men would have looked up
to him for twenty years, I mean ten fifteen years
of their young tennis career as the person to be like.
And then on top of it, you had Novak Djokovic
still pushing the number one player every set six four, seven, seven, six,
(41:44):
and being so close to going into the fort set
and sending, you know, the goodbye to the French crowd there.
It's just remarkable when you think about the footprint on
the court and the guy that one of them beat
in the semifinals at thirty seven years of age, that
the reason they are at the highest of levels our
Carezence Inner is because they had to jump and equate
(42:08):
themselves to Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic and the Roger Federers,
but more importantly Novak and Rafa because they've been around
the last couple of years. It's just so poignant and
perfect that that longest final in French Open history was
that match yesterday, and then you had this incredible young woman,
(42:30):
Cocoa Goff, achieving what she did against a player that
has been virtually almost unstoppable this year. It was just
as you said, two incredible finals that and just a
tournament that I will not forget for a long a
long long time.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
I couldn't be I think happier with how both of
the slams have gone this year, having Maddi Keys victorious
after real real nail biter, especially the final and the
semifinal against Eager, having Sinner just so beautifully and confidently
step into the sort of inner circle of greatness. I
(43:07):
think you probably argue, who is already there?
Speaker 2 (43:09):
You know.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
I just I'm really happy with how tennis.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Is shaping up this here. Yeah, and one thing I
wanted to add, to see Sinner stand there the way
he did, and the way he spoke in that speech
after the match was so incredible. I mean, it kind
of makes me emotional thinking about it because I can
only imagine how incredibly the only thing he let on
(43:35):
when it's going to be tough to sleep tonight. And
let me tell you something, He's going to ruminate over
those match points. Not today, not tomorrow, not next week,
He's going to ruminate over those for the rest of
his life. Trust me, He's going to think about that
at some point in his day for the rest of
his life. And all I could think about watching that
(43:57):
match as well. One thing that did come out of
it is that thank God, Hey, I don't have kids,
but be that I don't have kids that play professional sports,
because to sit there and watch those parents go through
what they went through yesterday, especially Janik Sinner's mom, she
looked like she literally, I mean, she was had tears
(44:18):
in her eyes when he had three match points right,
and then you think an hour and a half later,
she's still out there begging and hoping and praying that
he wins. Then you've got al Choriz's parents sitting there
like you know, it's okay no matter what. You can
see where both of these kids get, like their capacity
to be good people because the parents and of themselves
(44:41):
so well, Coco's mom raying her joy when Coco won.
I mean, just you know the stress that the parents
and I did think about Sabalanka who lost her father
years ago, who got her into tennis, Like there's so
many backstories that people don't know, Like, you know, she
lost her dad. That has to weigh on her and
way emotionally on the tennis court as well. You just wonder,
(45:03):
you know where that comes from. Is that part of
her being upset on the court thinking about those things
Maybe that her dad would tell her in those times.
I don't know, but like I just think about these parents,
My God. Love to all the parents out there that
have kids play sports and professional sports and that live
in those moments, my God, Like kudos to you guys,
(45:24):
because wow, I mean the camera shots The one thing
about the FFP too, I hope they're directors and their
producers work a little bit better on not showing the
crowd every single point which they do. Their camera work
is not great. That's all I'm going to say. They
cut off the men's doubles hugging each other and went
(45:45):
to their box. That was one moment where I was like,
are you joking? So when people like yell at T
and T or Tennis channel or ESPN days, we don't
have control sometimes of the camera. The only control we
have is over American produced tennis matches, like at the
US Open. Esp AND controls that feed. But like and
you know the American television, where is it the French?
(46:05):
We don't control that. So don't yell at Tea and
Tea or you know, ESPN at Wimbledon if if you
don't get the shot you want, because it's not really
up to us. But you know, the shots of the
parents yesterday was just like I just kept thinking, how
did they do this? How did they do this? Well?
Speaker 1 (46:22):
I can only speak as a parent watching your kid
do something low stakes, but it is hard not to
have your heart in your throat. And I think the
fact that uh uh, certainly for Cocoa and the two men.
Everyone comported themselves extremely well and played extremely well. And
I think what you want is your kid to you know,
(46:43):
be a good human being. And yeah, I just so much,
so much to say about how fantastic this Calay season
ended up. I hate to say it because I'm sort
of you know, this is my favorite time of the year.
I'm ready for change. I'm ready for a visual change.
I'm ready for grass. I'm ready for you know. I
love the grit, I love the I was playing on
some beautiful clay courts over the weekend in Lefada, a
(47:05):
suburb of Athens, which was amazing. But I'm ready for
something else. I just want a visual reset. I need
the pristine, you know, manicured line part of the season,
which is now already upon us. I turned on the
TV this morning and people are already playing in Queens,
They're already playing at the HSBC, They're already playing a
couple of different locations. So I'm ready for it. I'm excited.
The Boss Open is well underway. They're playing in the Netherlands.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
You know, like, let's go me too, you know, the
beauty of clay was displayed so incredibly well in these finals.
Getting one more ball back in the court makes a
big difference on clay variety. I think that's where Yannick
if there's one thing you can take away from it
just getting a little bit more variety. Maybe he can
(47:47):
implement a drop shot, because I think that's what Carlos
did really well on some big occasions. Yesterday he threw
in that exceptional bourhand drop shot at times where I
was like, are you kidding me? You know, Yani doesn't
hit it as much. Maybe that something you can implement
on clay. If he wants to beat Carlos. On hard court,
it's a little bit harder to implement that, which is
why Sin is so good on hardcourt. But going into
(48:10):
the grass, look, who's going to win Wimbledon. I don't know.
I did sort of mention that I think Rebarking is
one to watch wombledon as well, because her game lens
itself so beautifully on grass and she composes herself so
well on the court. But look, I'm looking forward to
the nuances and the differences of grasses. You have to
be attacking, you have to be creative, and you have
to be more aggressive. So we'll see who comes out
(48:32):
on top at Wimbledon. But as far as I'm concerned,
I'm still getting over of the clay, which is opposite
because normally I'm not for the clay, for the grass,
and You're like, still, well, we're still playing on clay.
But Caitlin, we're usually lost for work. I'm usually not
lost for words, but I have to say this last
twenty four hours was lost. Forty eight hours has been
(48:53):
really amazing. And yeah, I can't wait for the grass
to start, but I'm going to I'm going to save
for those two matches, particularly that men's final, for a
couple more days.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
All right, let's check in in a week's time. Who
knows where our travels will take us, but we'll have
lots to discuss. Queens has women for the first time
in a long time. Uh, and yeah, we'll leave everyone
on a high note. Chef's kiss for the two finals.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
Chef's kiss, and my voice will not sound like this
next week, hopefully unless I do a little too much
parting here in Spain. But anyway, guys, thanks for joining
us today. What a memorable, memorable a couple of days
and I hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks guys, to
see you next week. Show adios,
I don't remember you were screaming at the sidelines of
the WNBA or something.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
No, no, I got a cold and I went to
a Better Who concert, so I was singing to I
waited out, and then next day I woke up. I
was like done. Anyway, Helen, Welcome to the Renee Stuff
Tennis podcast. What a week of tennis. I am in Spain.
(00:38):
I actually watched the men's final in Majorca yesterday in Spanish,
which was kind of great. But before we get to
the men's final, we have to talk about the women's
We got to talk about the tournament in general. Yes,
I have a husky voice. No, it's because I didn't
smoke a pack of cigarettes when I arrived in Spain.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
I s lifestyle just lends itself to you know, Gene
Tonic and Sie and well, we are like ships in
the European night. Because I just flew back from Athens
and watched tennis on planes, trains and automobiles this past
couple of days. We have so much to get into.
(01:21):
Let's start with the women.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I mean, it's kind of like the first time that
we were like almost speechless going into a podcast because
that match was just unhinged yesterday between Sinner and Alcarez.
But yeah, let's let's start with the women because we've
got so much to talk about. Normally it's the other
way around. Normally we're like losing our minds about the
women and we're like, all right, let's talk about the guys.
But let's give both the finals their owed drama filled
(01:48):
before we get to the finals. So I want to
just touch upon the semi finals because there were things
that happened in the semi finals that also need to
be discussed. Let's talk about the eager Hiantech match with
sable Anka, high intensity. From the get go of that match,
sable Anka would have possibly played the best set of
(02:09):
tennis I've seen from her. In the third set, she
didn't make one error, and when you think about how
many errors she made in the final, just think about
that for a second. I do believe having the roof
closed helped her a tremendous amount though, And you know,
we've sort of talked about the roof being closed and
how that helps her ability to be able to strike
the ball a lot easier. It's just in the end,
(02:31):
Sabalanka just a little bit too good.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Can you talk a little bit more about the roof
that is such an object of controversy, especially for people
who correctly understand it as being an advantage for certain players.
Obviously it came up earlier this tournament with Novak Djokovic.
Hard to imagine that IgA loses that match or at
least the third set that badly if the roof is open.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, listen, so you know, when the roof is closed,
there's no variables, there's no sun to deal where, there's
no wind to deal with. And for me, Sabalanca is
truly it helps her a lot. I think it's one
of the reasons why she plays so well in Melbourne.
It's also one of the reasons why I think Novak
has played really well in Melbourne through the years, is
that the Melbourne court is it feels quite interior. It
(03:21):
feels quite like an indoor feel because of the way
it's built. It has the roof that comes all the
way over, so there's not a lot of wind that
gets in there.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
The US Open used to be a horrible court to
play on with wind. It now doesn't suffer from the wind.
Even andre Agassi I remember him walking on the court
the first time he saw the roof closer the US
Open and he's like, oh, it's completely different. There's no wind,
and that's why it gets so hot in there. That's
why you talk about like it's better of sweating like
so much during the US Open. So all these stadiums
(03:51):
now have this roof, there's not a lot of wind.
The French Open still gets quite a lot of wind
when the roof is open. I don't know why. It's
maybe the way the stairwells a belt. The wind gets
in there differently, gets a bit swirly. And there's no question, Saballenka,
it helps someone like her because she can throw that
ball toss that brings rain. It's like twenty feet in
(04:11):
the air. When you don't have to worry about wind,
you can smash your sir, you can smash your ground strokes.
The ball is going to be in the exact right position,
and so variables do change when the roof closes, and
that's why it and helps someone like her. I was
surprised there was some pundit to like, oh, it's it's
going to help eager because it's going to slow the
conditions down. I'm like, Sablenka doesn't care if it's heavy.
(04:33):
She can hit through that. So I think that really
helped her with the roof close. Having said that, she
still had to hit the ball perfectly, and she did
that against the Eager in the third set, and that's
why she got the wind.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
So just staying on the semifinal a little bit because
the other one was quite lopsided. And obviously we'll give
Coco her fair share of do for getting to the
final and obviously what happened in the final. But you know,
one thing that we talked about a lot coming into
this tournament, titled an entire podcast episode the Worry Index,
(05:03):
and put Ega at the top of it because she
had had a rough start to the year and obviously
a rough start to clay season, which was the most
surprising probably part of all. I actually don't think this
was such a terrible tournament for her, I think considering
how she came into it, you know, losing to a surging,
almost unbeatable Sebilenka in the semifinals. Yeah, I'm sure it's disappointing. Obviously,
(05:26):
she's won the tournament a handful of times. She was
by some accounts, the favorite, but actually she wasn't my
favorite to win it because of the form that she had,
So I actually think this was sort of a positive outcome,
even though I'm sure she's disappointed. I'm sure she, you know,
would have liked to have gotten through the final, which
you know, maybe would have taken you know, a different
a different narrative turn. But actually, for me, the Ega
(05:47):
narrative is not so so dire as it was at
the beginning of the of the Rilla and Guerra swing.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, I mean, listen, I think she'd be highly disappointed.
I think when she got into the third said she
probably thought she could win that map, and the quality
was very, very good from her throughout, but that that
was just I mean, for Arena Sabalanca to not make
one unfour Sarah in that third set, that was I mean,
that's unheard of, even for her standards. So I think
(06:14):
she just got beaten in the end by a surging
as you said, better player in the and I said
it on you know, the social media's confidence is an
extra arm right when when you go into a tournament
with a lot of confidence, which she did and Eager
did not. That's where it showed in that semi final
now in the final, it was a completely different story,
(06:36):
and we do want to give some flowers to Boss
on that lucky lose, a French player who made it
all the way the semifinals, which is pretty incredible. The
difference is her heavy spin on the forehand, which hurt
a lot of players in the tournament because you don't
see that a lot on the w TA two. Most
women have flatterer brown strokes. Boss Won's frehand top spin
hurt a lot of players, you think about it, Jessica Pagoula,
(06:58):
who likes the ball sort of more in her like
hip area, not above her shoulders. It didn't hurt Coco
because Coco loves Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
That's western forehand. That's like, you're exactly your strike zone.
You want that in her back end, it's exactly so
she I mean, and she just went out to lunch
on that that game.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
So for Coco it was like, oh, great, you're not
going to hit your fourhand flat to my forehand. Fine,
I can handle the spin. I move better than you.
My back ends ten times better than you. So it
was just a terrible matchup for her in the end,
and too good from Coco.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
When one thing about Boss just really quickly. She really
reminded me. She really reminded Sam. Yeah, she looked exactly
like Sam Stoser to me, she looked like Sam Stosser
in like Jenny Brady's body.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Actually, she reminded me a lot of Sam in a
lot of ways, like the really strong, you know, muscle, biceps,
storter and stature, but just that beautiful kick, serve, the
heavy forehand, you know, back end is the weakest, but
she can slice very similar to the way Sam plays.
So I expect to do well on clay going forward
in her career. I think he's going to give her
(08:02):
a ton of confidence and that big kick surve on hardcourt.
A lot of people like she should get a walkout
into Wimbledon. I'm like, look, just because someone had one
amazing tournament doesn't mean you necessarily give them a worldout,
particularly on grass. Will her game be the same on grass? No,
I don't think it will be. We'll see how she
does going forward, but in the end, you don't just go, oh,
(08:24):
let's give her a walkout right away. I didn't necessarily
agree with that statement, but hey, listen, if she's great
a player as we expect her to be, she'll make
it there. In the future.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
I'll be watching for her during the hard court swing.
I think, just like Sam stows her that, you know,
the hard courts will be a little bit more favorable
to her game style. But yeah, it was exciting to see. Okay,
now let's get into the final. WHOA. This final had everything.
It had everything. It had some extremely high moments, it
had some extremely low moments, it had some gutsy moments,
(08:57):
it had some gutless moments, It had some sort of
ugly moments afterwards. But ultimately, I think a lot of us,
especially you who called it and I was extremely dubious,
so hats off to you. I think it made a
lot of people very very very very happy, including me. Candidly,
I really like both those players. But I think, you know,
(09:18):
obviously the love we have for Cocoa Golf and some
of the tough love we've had for her this year,
I think was really, you know, amazing to experience watching
that three set thriller. What are your I know you
were very active about this on social media too, So
please just give me everything from start to finish from
your impressions, because I have very little dad.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yeah, you'll lit'll appreciate this. Our friend Daniel Crannon said,
your Twitter feed was like an RSS feed, So I
was like old days, like piping out like I was
at war. Wow. All I can say is I did
call it a little bit. I mean I did say
on ESPN dot com that I picked sabalancat slightly and
I mean slightly. But then during the match, what I
(10:01):
noticed immediately in that first set when it was full
one to sable Anca and she hit that serf to
got five one I believe, and it was called a
let and everything changed after that, and I saw her
anxiety level hit the roof. I mean, I have not
seen her lose her marbles like I saw it in
this match from that moment on, and I saw Coco
(10:23):
just calmly dig her way back into the match. And
I knew even if she lost that first set, I
felt like she knew that that arena was at her
wits end. And I knew as soon as she broke
in that first game the second set, I'm like, this
is a completely different match. It's now coming down to
(10:44):
then you hit winners against me because I Am not
going to miss Coco goth And that's how she was
when she won the US Open. When she won all
those tournaments leading to the US Open a couple of
years ago, she was in lockdown mode. She was not
going to miss replyn She's not gonna hit winners on it,
but she's not going to miss it. She wasn't double folding.
She double folded nine times in the match, I think,
but for her that's not too bad, particularly against Sabolenka,
(11:06):
who one time she lost I think six, four, seven, five,
and third hitting nineteen double folds. So I'm like nine
is nothing for her. And I just felt the crowd
was on her side. She was not missing. Sablenka was losing.
I mean, it was like she was a crackhead. It
was like not with control. How out of control she
was with her players box in the final, it was
(11:28):
I got interpreted what she was saying to them. She
was yelling at them, why are you even effing here?
It was just like NonStop and that's just stress and
her outward clear emotions got the better of her. But
Coco was like steady Eddy and she was not going
to miss under pressure and the key for her in
(11:49):
the end, And I said it leading into the last
game when she served for the match. Get your first
serve in the court, no matter what. You don't need
to get a free point on your serve. You're beating
her in the rallies, the crowded behind you, stay in
the moment, get the first serve in the court. And
that's what she did in the last game, and that's
what she hasn't done in a couple of big matches
(12:10):
of late where she's double folded and she's given her
opponent the win are basically and Sabalanca missed on that
one break point in this four or five game. A
second serve terrible era off of the return. That's where
you have to make the return if you SABALANKI don't
need to go for the winner there. And she went
(12:30):
for the winner and missed it. And you could tell
Kirker was like, oh, okay, you know what, she's not
hitting the winners like she would normally because she's lost
her mind. Let me get back to making my first serve,
which he did and she ended up winning the match.
And I mean, she hit that shank forehand on match
point at landon on the line. But you know what,
players hit balls, shank balls. They hit the line all
(12:51):
the time. And you have to be able to handle yourself.
And Sabalanca made an error on that backhand, and you
know on Instagram and on Twitter and all these speeds,
like she made seventy unforced eras she gave her the match.
I'm like people, it's like when Steffie Graft used to
lose to a rancher, Sanchez mccaria, a rancher had a
losing record against Steffie, but when she beat her, it
(13:12):
was because she made Steffie play one more ball and
Steffie got a little bit nervous and she'd miss. And
that's what Coco did to sabal Anka. Saballenka pressed because
she's playing against the fastest player we've ever seen on tour,
making more balls than anybody we've ever seen on tour.
And on top of it, when the ball goes to
her backhand, she can hit a winner on it. And
(13:34):
her forehand was great and she mixes the different spins
and Petko has talked about it on this podcast. She
had those big heavy spins on the forehand and then
she smashes the back end. Then she's chipping the forehand.
She's not making an error and that made Sabalanka miss
and that is all it comes down to. Tennis is
about hitting the ball in between the lines and winning
(13:54):
the point. And that's what she did better than Sablenka.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
I thank you for that. Soup to nuts, incredible sort
of recap of a lot of different things, tactical, emotional, mental,
I think the thing that is really stuck with me
and something I don't give Coco enough credit for, because
God knows, I've been critical of her game from time
to time again out of love, because I love who
(14:19):
she is. I love the the on and off court both.
You know, she's a representative of the game, she's showing
up at the things, she's political like, everything about her
I can't help but love at times the game itself.
It's so hard to for me to love a big, hitting, aggressive,
(14:40):
you know, sort of alpha player. That is is just
sort of my preference, which is why I have a
lot of time, hard time appreciating the counterpunchers. But what
I think I super super super am impressed by with
Coco is everything you just talked about in terms of resilience,
in terms of just extreme mental fortitude, the ability to
commit and refuse to lose, and the ability to hang
(15:03):
in even though you're going through you know what is uh,
you know, sort of adversity, certainly with the first set
with Arena getting up because as you said, when I
saw that Coco had leveled the first set, I thought, okay,
even if she loses this, now it's a match. The
only way Arena wins it matches blows her off the court, and.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Don't forget go was up full one in the tiebreak
as well, so there was a little bit of oh damn,
I could have won that set, but I think it
set her to go, I can win this match.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
That's right. And I think one of the things that
came out afterwards and shout out to New Balance and
a couple of her other like sponsors and partners who
work with her because they've done such a wonderful job
obviously that they put her in Mew Mew, which later
ended up not like adhering to the rules of the
f FT, which honestly is probably its own podcast, because
the f FT as much to love as I give
this slam, like who man, you understand, Yeah, a lot
(15:52):
of reasons, their digital content takedown requests for digital creators,
their rules there, you know, as a good body. We
have some notes, But for me, the fact that Coco
Goff wrote not only to herself a manifestation letter saying,
I will win the US, I will win the French Open,
I will win Rollangaros, I will be victorious in Paris,
(16:14):
and just reinforcing belief, the fact that she had like
a dream about it three or four years ago and
it was sort of like courageous and vulnerable enough to
put it out there. Like I just feel from a
human being perspective, you know, it's hard not to love Coco,
but I think she's such an exemplary human because of
how she gracefully and graciously and elegantly handles hardship, and
(16:37):
how she gracefully and elegantly and I think really inspirationally
handles victory and success. And she willed herself into that position,
and I think there is something for all of us.
I cannot hit like Arina Seblinka, and I never will,
and I never could. I can't run as fast as
Coco Goff, and I never can and I never will.
But I can imagine going through things that are hard
(16:58):
and having self belief and willing myself into a position
by having unwavering sort of commitment, and I think that,
to me is just unbelievably impressive. And I think every
single person who saw that, whether they understood that what
was happening or not, can take something away from that,
including Arena Sbalanca. I don't think that was her takeaway,
which we should also talk about, because she was salty
(17:21):
in a way that was I don't think befitting a
Grand Slam champion and a leader of our game, candidly,
but just to stay in Coco for a second, I
think for me, when you strip away all the tactics,
when you strip away all the head to heads, when
you strip away some of the stuff that you know,
we tend to get caught up in from results, and
you just focus on the fact that this is a
person who committed. It's sort of staggering and it's so
(17:45):
well deserved, and I'm really happy for her.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
I just know what's at such a young age to
be that mature and that graceful about things. And let's
not forget this was a kid that came on to
the to her with a big splash. Oh yeah, a
lot of pressure on her shoulders. And the fact that
she has now backed it up by winning two Grand
(18:08):
Slams on two different surfaces. Is testament to her upbringing
her parents her team. I got to give her credit for,
you know, adding a couple of different people to her
team in the last six months. It's just a fantastic
display of resilience and just her as a person, and
(18:29):
you know, knowing her the little bit that I do,
what you get is what you see. And she is
a special kid, and I'm We're so lucky to have
her in the game. Let's talk about what afterwards. Let's
talk about what happened afterwards. It was I immediately I
when Arena got up and listen, I have not lost
in the finals of a singles Grand Slam, but I've
(18:52):
lost in a doubles Grand Slam on that very court.
I have lost matches where I want to when I
tell you, I want to leave court. I don't want
to say anything notice about my opponent. I was a
terrible loser. I'm saying it right out here in the open.
But I can tell you I've never got on the
mic as much as I've seeded my opponent or disliked
(19:15):
the way I lost and said I played terrible. You're
lucky to win. Essentially, I could not believe those world's
words came out of her mouth, and you could tell
immediately she started to cry the moment she got a
mic and I was like, oh, my heart broke for her.
The crowd were ready to put their arms around her
(19:35):
and cheer her and give her a five minute standing
ovation like they've done so many times through the years
with so many great champions, and those words came out
of her mouth and the crowd went get silent, and
I was like, oh no, no, no, reel that back,
reel that back, and she didn't reel her back. And
then she went into press and she doubled down on it,
(19:57):
and I was like, this is so bad. And I
I talked to a couple of players about this and
all of them said I was I gave her impossible
what she said on the court, because.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
The seconds after losing, you got a microphone in your face,
your brain has scrambled eggs, been there, and also you've
been holding the microphone. I get why you are emotional
and maybe say some less than charitable things. Fine, no way, yes,
doubling down in the press conference and basically calling like
let's just illuminate and elucidate some of the things that
she said, which were, among other things, the match was
(20:28):
lost because she played badly, no credit to Coco. The
the semi final that she played and beat Ego would
have beaten Coco, which like, maybe if that is true,
maybe just does that need to be spoken out loud,
not at all? Just doubling down, uh, and yeah, kind
(20:51):
of throwing a tantrum in a way that I felt like,
you know, now that you've had some time to reflect this,
you've showered off, maybe you've debriefed with your box who,
as you said, she was pretty salty to in a
way that I didn't love. And again, you know, I
hated the moment. And we've had a lot of you know,
back and forth about various players getting motivated by various things.
You know, people like Novak obviously like that sort of conflict.
(21:11):
Other people, you know, need to hear constant support. You know,
I'm willing to kind of give some leeway, although I
wouldn't like to be talked to you like that if
I were her coaching team. But yeah, the doubling down
in the press and just the amount of text messages
I got from casual fans over the weekend being like,
ish this, I.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Got a lot to I got a lot of I
got a lot of Oh man, I loved sable Anca.
But I don't know anymore, like you know, she she
It took her twenty four hours after that to write
a you know, an apology essentially on Instagram. But I'm like, girlfriend, no,
(21:49):
that was so bad, and there's there's no excuses for it, Like,
there's just none. And that's coming from me, who, as
I said, I've said some stuff in press. I've said
some like you never take it away from your opponent.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Especially that a Grand sam final like that, especially with
the player who has also beaten you in another Grand
Sume final. It's not like she got lucky. And this
was the first time anyone has ever heard of Coco.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
It's like and also, but Caitlin, you have to know
as an opponent. You have to know as a player,
what are you attributes that your opponent does well and
frustrating the hell out of you and getting one more
ball back in the court. Nobody onto I does it
better than Poco well? And you know on clay you
have to have controlled aggression and if you don't have
(22:34):
controlled aggression, you are going to lose, and so you
have to give credit to your opponent no matter what.
And that's what happened in this match.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Yeah, I think what was sort of astonishing to me
about it was not only was it kind of like,
I get how it was salty, I get how it
was you know, emotional and painful, but I also didn't
think it was particularly self aware in a way that
was like, you know, oh, you want to be able
to take away something from the match. We'll get to
this in a second, because I think there was some
interesting insights similarly from Alcoriz and Center, although obviously opposite ones,
(23:06):
which is just like, understand what happened. You got tight,
you overhit, You were being out out maneuvered and out
mentally mentally positioned by somebody who has your number in
this way, like is your game possessing of more fireworks
and more exciting? Certainly to me absolutely, that said, the
(23:27):
tools don't count if you can't utilize them in the
right way, in a smart way, and the best kind
of player to play against you as somebody who can
figure out how to neutralize your weapons and get one
more ball back in the court, which clearly has not
only worked in this match, but has worked in finals
that you've played before, including at the US Open. So
like I found it not only ungracious, I found the
lack of self awareness, yes, sort of like And also,
(23:50):
what do you think happened out there? Do you think
she just got lucky for three sets? Like? No, you
she did that on purpose against you, dummy.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yeah. And also on top of that, you have to
also know that Caitlon Coco has one of, if not
the best back end in the game. And your backhand,
as good as Sabalanca's backhand is it can be, it
is neutralized and then hit back with more by Coco.
And so you know that her strength, her forehand is
a weakness and she's not making error because she's hitting
(24:47):
high tops of in for you, which is not where
you like the ball. And then on top of it,
when there's like a short ball, Coco doesn't try and
hit the living shit out of it like you do.
When it's in a low position in front of the
service line, she'll tip it back, she'll get it into
the court. Instead, Savallenka tries to hit the living daylights
out of it and missus it and goes, oh, well,
(25:09):
that's just unlucky. No, that's tennis. You put the ball
back in the court. That's what you're supposed to do.
And like a perfect example is when she had that
easy volley on top of the net and tried to
hit the living daylights out of it and smashed it
into the net. It ended up not costing her in
that occasion, but that's on you. You can just hit
(25:29):
that into the open court and win it, but instead
you tried to crush it and you missed it. There
are just little nuances about playing tennis that are more important,
and in the end, it's about hitting the ball over
the net and in between the lines. And that's what
Coco did, and she kept her shit together and that's
why she's holding the trophy now and now a two
time Grandsime champion. And it was great to see and
(25:50):
she was gracious and she handled herself in pressed even
after someone told her what Arena said in the press conference.
She handled that with class. This kid is so special,
so great to see. And I may have said it.
I may have said it after Rhan look out Coco,
look out for Coco at the French Open.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Yeah, you're right, now I do have to say, I
think Arena's winning Wimbledon. I really do. We'll come back
to this, but I think now she's she responds pretty
well to this kind of thing, I think, and she
we've seen it before where she goes back and gets
extra fired up. What I would like to see is
her be a little more self aware. This seems like
a really good opening for a little graciousness. And I
(26:31):
want out of my number one. I want chrisma, I
want fireworks, I want all the stuff, but I also
want a leader. And so there are ways that Arena
Seblinka can improve on and off the court, and I
you know, it's a challenge that I want her to
do it, but absolutely fantastic from my viewpoint outcome from
Coco you called it, uh, and yeah, it is wonderful
(26:53):
that we have her now is a two time Grand
Slam champion. One is not a fluke. Two is a statement.
And you know, let's see where she goes from here,
because I think this has to give her just a tremendous,
tremendous amount of confidence, self belief, and you know, if
it was lacking before, just the idea that fortitude and
resilience is something that she has obviously an abundance of.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Which we could only use, you know, all of us
London to said it forever, if she was going to
win a Slam, was going to be the French because
they're aforehand. It gives them more time. YadA, YadA, YadA.
It's the one the US Open, which surprised us of
all the slams for her to win that one over
the French. But now look out, like lookout, because her
confidence going back to the French Open is going to
(27:36):
be sky high and I cannot wait to see it
because I think her and Eger and Sabolenca are going
to be fighting for that spot for years to come.
Let's get to the guys, speaking of world number ones,
that are gracious, great role models. Oh my god, that
final before we get to that, speaking of great role
models in the sense of careers, had I think and
(28:00):
I said it, I think that's the last we're going
to see of Novak Djokovic at the French Open. That
walk off is not what we normally see. But my god,
even that semi final, the level of tennis in that
match was so sky high. Alkoraz the course got the
walk over default with Masseti MASSTI was playing great for
one set and then sort of like he's going to
(28:20):
have to work on his ability to play long five setters.
We know that it's cost him a few times now,
particularly at the French Open, But that semi final was unbelievable.
Level was so good, and I just think that Novak
sort of saw a little bit of the end of
the road going. I played really well and I didn't
(28:43):
win a set, And there's little things that Novak did
in that semi final that also showed a little bit
of his age and just his drop in level just
ever so slightly, and Sinner's ability his level is just
higher now on a consistent basis, is that Novak made
errors at times you just don't normally see it in
those moments of like years ago, and I saw the
(29:06):
errors come, just basic errors, like an easy fourhand. He
went for that one forehand on that set point and
it missed by like, you know, a good two or
three feet. Normally, if he's going to miss, it's like
maybe an inch. You just see him missing balls that
he doesn't miss usually. And I just think father time
has caught up with him in that respect. And I
think that's why he sees kind of the end of
(29:28):
the road, because listen, no Vev Jocovitch doesn't want to
lose in quarters and sent me to the Grand Slam.
Sky's won twenty four of them, and so I just
as much as I would like him to stick around
because him against Sinner and Alcarez is always so mind blowing,
but I think that's the last time we're going to
see him at the French He kind of alluded to
it almost in the press conference afterwards as well. I
think he still is a huge chance at Wimbledon. I
(29:51):
really do believe that for sure, and I think he's
thinking about maybe this rain Open because he's won it
so many times, that being his swan thong out of
the tour. But that was the fabulos semi final, but
also showed where Sinner's at, and so I don't know
if you want to talk about that semi final, and
then onto the final was.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Just I have very little to add obviously, Mussetti fitness
and injuries not kind of how you want that match
to end. But I think it was Alcoraz's match no
matter how you slice it. I do love the season
on clay that Lorenzo Mussetti has had. And I think,
you know, if for nothing else than the esthetics of
the game, the one hit a backhand, the fits, Yeah,
(30:30):
the cuteness. I mean, it's just such a good you know,
it's such a good and potent sort of I don't
want to say counter narrative, but you know, it is
starting to feel a little bit like Sinner and Alcoraz
have a lot of the oxygen. So having interesting compelling
characters with alternate game styles into late stages of matches,
like a drag japer with the big lefty, fourhanded serve
(30:52):
or Lorenzo with the one hit backhand. You know, you
want the you don't want it to just be a
two person show. I don't anyway. That always sort of
bummed me out about the like Nadal Federer years, although
I mean, you could do worse, you could do worse
than those two. But yeah, just quickly on the semifinals,
it did feel like, especially the way he talked about it,
maybe no backs last and I think he knows he's
(31:16):
not on the level and I think he sees how
hard it is to get there Wimbledon yet let's see.
But yeah, onto the final I mean what, I don't
have a lot of words for what. This is just
about as good as our sport gets. I think it's
just about as good as the sport gets. I think
before we say anything about the final, I want to
(31:36):
talk about what he didn't have. It didn't have anybody
bitching to the umpire or being a baby about the
weather or the conditions or the umpires or the ball kids.
It didn't have any like dodgy medical timeouts that take forever.
It didn't have any moments where you're kind of like,
(31:57):
oh God, this guy again with this thing. It had
two incredible respected, equally certainly equally competitive and equally interesting
narratives coming together. But it didn't have on any of
that like kind of drama like a lot of times
when Americans and I don't relish being an American all
(32:18):
the time for previous reasons, but you know, when we
watch European football and everyone's like diving all the time
and appealing to the umpire for a card, it sort
of reminds me sometimes of the men in late stage
of the tournament where they just get a little in
their feelings, you know, and I just want to call
out the refreshing lack of that. In this match. There
was no drama. The only drama was between the net
(32:40):
and the two baselines. And I think for me, that
is about as pure an advertisement for tennis as you
can possibly have. And I just want to say how
much I like that.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
I think the most contrary seal thing was seeing from
you Onixina was when he questioned the call was it
like Bible or something in a fifth set when the
serv was clearly out thirty all a massive point in
the match. I can't remember exactly the game, but it
(33:11):
was and he looks at as Raki and he's like
it was out like and he goes and he shows
the mark and that was the most the angriest you'll
aver see yn ex center on the tennis court. And
he let it go. And then afterwards, even if in
the worst speech of his life, he thanks the umpires
(33:32):
and the Luttons people. I'm like this guy, oh my god.
But that's sidebar the match. You know, when you we
kind of I nitpick at things, and he did this
and there's nothing you can say. There's nothing you can say.
Who sets the love playing unbelievable tennis? Yannick hitting the
(33:53):
ball so hard. At the beginning of this match, coming
out with this purpose of I know I've lost you
a lot. I know this is Clay, I know you
the defending champion. I know you just beat me a
couple of weeks ago. I am coming out to win
this match. And he was striking the ball so big.
It was insane how well he was hitting the ball.
(34:15):
Carlos was looking up like, I can't, how am I
going to deal with this? And he just hung in there,
down two sets to love, one love and a break
and that sort of turned the tide a little bit, right.
Carlos got the break back and I was like, okay,
and then the crowd started getting into it. The momentum
started getting by Carlos. Carlos started feeding the crowd. And
(34:36):
there's one I guess there's only one critique, but you
really it's really hard for a player that's not like
this to get the crowd on their side. Yannick is
not an outwardly emotional human being. He's very stoic. He's
very quiet, and so the crowd don't gravitate to him
like they do Carlos. Carlos's game is a lot more
(34:57):
flair and a lot more bummus and getting the and
begging the crowd to help him, and they loved it,
and they stayed with him through the entire match. And
Yanick is kind of just like you. Just he's like
that kid where you just feel sorry for it because
you like just get a little bit more emotional on
the crowd get behind you too. It's just like there
was just nothing in this match that you could critique. Nothing.
(35:21):
I mean, yes, could Yanick have served a little better
when it counted when he was serving for the match. Sure,
he didn't get a lot of first serves in that
hurt him at love forty. I don't think he could
have been more aggressive. Carlos played an incredible three points
to get back to juice. It's like it was just
(35:41):
it was just tennis at another level. It was just
the fact that John McEnroe even said that these two
at their peak could beat Yanick, could beat Ruffi on
the daling play. I don't know about that, but I mean,
this is where they have taken the sport to a
level that I actually didn't think was possible, which is
hard to imagine. They moved better than anyone I've ever
(36:02):
seen on the court. I mean, you Onix Sinner is
six foot four, he moves like he's five ten. He's slid.
He got to that one drop shot and to rebreak
at five to four in the fifth set, to go
fifteen forty on Carlos a serve and he put his
arms in the air and he was like finally getting
the crowd on his side a little bit. It was
just it had everything. And then you have Alcoraz stepping
(36:22):
into that fifth set tiebreak, playing that tie break better
than I've ever seen anyone play tennis. And one of
the things that you Nix Inner is known for is
how well he plays tiebreaks because he's usually the more
aggressive player, and he got a hand at the Carlos
because he's the one that ended up being the more
aggressive early on in that tie break, and that's what
(36:42):
got him the wind. It was. It was just mind
blowing how good it was. And then the speeches afterwards,
everything was just I couldn't agree more with you. It's
the most one of the most exceptional five and a
half hours of tennis I've ever seen.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Similarly, for those of us who can't contemplate hitting as
hard and moving as well and being as present as
a Yannick Center or somebody who can have the variety
and the bag of tricks and the incredible guts and
hutzba to to play the way that Alkaz played even
(37:23):
when his back was against the wall, especially when his
back was against the wall. You know, I struggle to
like look for ways that people can kind of get
their minds around it who don't understand just how high
the level of this tennis is, because hopefully it speaks
for itself and when you watch it, you know, I
think when you hear which is why I brought up,
(37:45):
you know, Coco's note to herself and just the self
belief and the willingness to ride through tough times on
the court to get to a place where you're now winning.
The thing that I want to make make sort of
an example of is how Alcarez talked about being down
(38:05):
not only two sets, but in that fourth set having
three match points on you know what otherwise would have been,
you know, the remaining seconds of the match, you know,
and he just says, when the situations are against you,
you have to keep fighting. It's a Grand Slam final.
It's no time to be tired. It's no time to
give up. It's time to keep fighting. Try to find
your moment, just go for it. You know, these champions
(38:28):
are made in these moments, and there's a reason it
ends up on T shirts and mugs and you know,
on plaques on the entrances to Grand Slams because it's
so trite seeming, but when you see somebody do it
in action, you were reminded as to the bravery it takes,
I think, to not lose your shit, to not stop
being courageous to you know, Yannick plays maybe one of
(38:51):
those points slightly differently or some you know, gust of
Wind carries one of Alkaaz's balls out, who knows, and
you know he would be the gracious, you know, celebratory
runner up. And the fact that Yannick, to his incredible credit,
obviously went out gave an incredible performance, was stunned in
(39:12):
the aftermath and just said, you know, I'm not sure
what the takeaway here is. It's just this happens. Sometimes
I left everything I could out there. You just have to,
you know, put this match in the past and keep
moving forward. All of that is true. All of those
things are true, you know, the skill, the bravery, the luck,
the you know, the toss of the coin a little bit,
and this is kind of how that felt to me,
which is not again not to take anything away from
(39:33):
two people just absolutely playing at their top level, but
rather just like an acknowledgment of how special that was.
And you know, there there's I think, nothing but amazing
things to expect from them both. So I couldn't be
happier with to me, honestly, both finals I thought were
very different, but the outcomes were both very, very great,
(39:54):
and I think they illustrated just how good the sport
can be, how interesting it can be, what the content
as to characters and tactics and styles is, you know.
And I think the fact that everyone involved was in
their twenties is an indication for me, which especially on
the men's side, it's been a long time since we
had somebody in a in a you know, position of
(40:15):
winning in Carlos's case, their fifth Grand Slam when they're
in their early twenties. The last time somebody did that
was literally rough at it all. So for me, the
fact that it is just the beginning for so many
of these players is a really really, really exciting prospect.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Yeah, and you think about that Sinner was about to
was one point away from winning his fourth, so they
would have been four each.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Right, So these two we never thought, you know, we
talk about this all the time. No one's gonna win
twenty again, There's no way. And I'm like, these two quids,
which is crazy, right, They're gonna have to beat each
other to do it. But as you were telling me,
you know, your sort of take on the bigger picture
of that final, I couldn't help but think about the
(40:56):
reason these two are where they are and how good
they are as tennis waz is because the interesting part
of the footprint on that court that is indelible and
going to be there for the rest of history of
Rafael Nadal, his footprint on that court, of the ultimate
warrior on clay, on that court as a sportsman, as
(41:19):
a competitor, as the guy that he is, and the
fact that those two young men would have looked up
to him for twenty years, I mean ten fifteen years
of their young tennis career as the person to be like.
And then on top of it, you had Novak Djokovic
still pushing the number one player every set six four, seven, seven, six,
(41:44):
and being so close to going into the fort set
and sending, you know, the goodbye to the French crowd there.
It's just remarkable when you think about the footprint on
the court and the guy that one of them beat
in the semifinals at thirty seven years of age, that
the reason they are at the highest of levels our
Carezence Inner is because they had to jump and equate
(42:08):
themselves to Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic and the Roger Federers,
but more importantly Novak and Rafa because they've been around
the last couple of years. It's just so poignant and
perfect that that longest final in French Open history was
that match yesterday, and then you had this incredible young woman,
(42:30):
Cocoa Goff, achieving what she did against a player that
has been virtually almost unstoppable this year. It was just
as you said, two incredible finals that and just a
tournament that I will not forget for a long a
long long time.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
I couldn't be I think happier with how both of
the slams have gone this year, having Maddi Keys victorious
after real real nail biter, especially the final and the
semifinal against Eager, having Sinner just so beautifully and confidently
step into the sort of inner circle of greatness. I
(43:07):
think you probably argue, who is already there?
Speaker 2 (43:09):
You know.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
I just I'm really happy with how tennis.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Is shaping up this here. Yeah, and one thing I
wanted to add, to see Sinner stand there the way
he did, and the way he spoke in that speech
after the match was so incredible. I mean, it kind
of makes me emotional thinking about it because I can
only imagine how incredibly the only thing he let on
(43:35):
when it's going to be tough to sleep tonight. And
let me tell you something, He's going to ruminate over
those match points. Not today, not tomorrow, not next week,
He's going to ruminate over those for the rest of
his life. Trust me, He's going to think about that
at some point in his day for the rest of
his life. And all I could think about watching that
(43:57):
match as well. One thing that did come out of
it is that thank God, Hey, I don't have kids,
but be that I don't have kids that play professional sports,
because to sit there and watch those parents go through
what they went through yesterday, especially Janik Sinner's mom, she
looked like she literally, I mean, she was had tears
(44:18):
in her eyes when he had three match points right,
and then you think an hour and a half later,
she's still out there begging and hoping and praying that
he wins. Then you've got al Choriz's parents sitting there
like you know, it's okay no matter what. You can
see where both of these kids get, like their capacity
to be good people because the parents and of themselves
(44:41):
so well, Coco's mom raying her joy when Coco won.
I mean, just you know the stress that the parents
and I did think about Sabalanka who lost her father
years ago, who got her into tennis, Like there's so
many backstories that people don't know, Like, you know, she
lost her dad. That has to weigh on her and
way emotionally on the tennis court as well. You just wonder,
(45:03):
you know where that comes from. Is that part of
her being upset on the court thinking about those things
Maybe that her dad would tell her in those times.
I don't know, but like I just think about these parents,
My God. Love to all the parents out there that
have kids play sports and professional sports and that live
in those moments, my God, Like kudos to you guys,
(45:24):
because wow, I mean the camera shots The one thing
about the FFP too, I hope they're directors and their
producers work a little bit better on not showing the
crowd every single point which they do. Their camera work
is not great. That's all I'm going to say. They
cut off the men's doubles hugging each other and went
(45:45):
to their box. That was one moment where I was like,
are you joking? So when people like yell at T
and T or Tennis channel or ESPN days, we don't
have control sometimes of the camera. The only control we
have is over American produced tennis matches, like at the
US Open. Esp AND controls that feed. But like and
you know the American television, where is it the French?
(46:05):
We don't control that. So don't yell at Tea and
Tea or you know, ESPN at Wimbledon if if you
don't get the shot you want, because it's not really
up to us. But you know, the shots of the
parents yesterday was just like I just kept thinking, how
did they do this? How did they do this? Well?
Speaker 1 (46:22):
I can only speak as a parent watching your kid
do something low stakes, but it is hard not to
have your heart in your throat. And I think the
fact that uh uh, certainly for Cocoa and the two men.
Everyone comported themselves extremely well and played extremely well. And
I think what you want is your kid to you know,
(46:43):
be a good human being. And yeah, I just so much,
so much to say about how fantastic this Calay season
ended up. I hate to say it because I'm sort
of you know, this is my favorite time of the year.
I'm ready for change. I'm ready for a visual change.
I'm ready for grass. I'm ready for you know. I
love the grit, I love the I was playing on
some beautiful clay courts over the weekend in Lefada, a
(47:05):
suburb of Athens, which was amazing. But I'm ready for
something else. I just want a visual reset. I need
the pristine, you know, manicured line part of the season,
which is now already upon us. I turned on the
TV this morning and people are already playing in Queens,
They're already playing at the HSBC, They're already playing a
couple of different locations. So I'm ready for it. I'm excited.
The Boss Open is well underway. They're playing in the Netherlands.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
You know, like, let's go me too, you know, the
beauty of clay was displayed so incredibly well in these finals.
Getting one more ball back in the court makes a
big difference on clay variety. I think that's where Yannick
if there's one thing you can take away from it
just getting a little bit more variety. Maybe he can
(47:47):
implement a drop shot, because I think that's what Carlos
did really well on some big occasions. Yesterday he threw
in that exceptional bourhand drop shot at times where I
was like, are you kidding me? You know, Yani doesn't
hit it as much. Maybe that something you can implement
on clay. If he wants to beat Carlos. On hard court,
it's a little bit harder to implement that, which is
why Sin is so good on hardcourt. But going into
(48:10):
the grass, look, who's going to win Wimbledon. I don't know.
I did sort of mention that I think Rebarking is
one to watch wombledon as well, because her game lens
itself so beautifully on grass and she composes herself so
well on the court. But look, I'm looking forward to
the nuances and the differences of grasses. You have to
be attacking, you have to be creative, and you have
to be more aggressive. So we'll see who comes out
(48:32):
on top at Wimbledon. But as far as I'm concerned,
I'm still getting over of the clay, which is opposite
because normally I'm not for the clay, for the grass,
and You're like, still, well, we're still playing on clay.
But Caitlin, we're usually lost for work. I'm usually not
lost for words, but I have to say this last
twenty four hours was lost. Forty eight hours has been
(48:53):
really amazing. And yeah, I can't wait for the grass
to start, but I'm going to I'm going to save
for those two matches, particularly that men's final, for a
couple more days.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
All right, let's check in in a week's time. Who
knows where our travels will take us, but we'll have
lots to discuss. Queens has women for the first time
in a long time. Uh, and yeah, we'll leave everyone
on a high note. Chef's kiss for the two finals.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
Chef's kiss, and my voice will not sound like this
next week, hopefully unless I do a little too much
parting here in Spain. But anyway, guys, thanks for joining
us today. What a memorable, memorable a couple of days
and I hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks guys, to
see you next week. Show adios,
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