October 14, 2025 • 42 mins
Well how about those cousins—what the triumphant showing in Shanghai between Valentin Vacherot and Arthur Rinderknech (and let's not forget their lady cousin Chloe Pacquet) means for Novak Djokovic's final act as well as Meddy and the lost generation. Plus: A stubborn Coco prevails in Wuhan, JPeg's exhausting run to the finals and a Nick Kyrgios in his feelings about getting a podcast snub from Andy Murray.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Listen.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
There's one thing I'm going to do and it's research
French tennis players.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Hey, hi, everybody, welcome to the Renee Subs Tennis Podcast.
It is a gloomy, awful day in New York City.
It's been great though the weather. Every time we get
on here, we do mention it. I do want everyone
to know that it's.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
A really important thing for us to live in in
this in this city. For Nastus Meteorology podcast. Yeah, that's
what you guys, tune in for.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
It, right, it's it's it's about how I feel as
a person in general.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
You know.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
It's some sets moved.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I guess your name is on the podcast, so you
can set the agenda.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
This is true. So if you want to talk about
the weather. So if I fuck it up, yeah, it's
all it's terrible. It's all on me because there you go. Caitlin.
We had a week in China. We did, we did.
We can chain it, you know.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Speaking of the weather, the weather was really hot, really humid,
and it was super super sweaty, which candidly I was
jealous of. I was really wishing that it was this hot.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
I was steamy here. The funny thing I was about
to say to you, was have you been to China
in that heat? And I was like, oh, that's right, forget,
I forgot you lived there, I did. How long did
you live there? For eighteen months? I lived there for years,
So yeah, that's sufficient enough.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Beijing mostly Shaghai, went citian Zen and Gwandaan a couple
of times. You know, I haven't been to I mean,
China's a massive, massive, massive country. They speak, you know,
dozens of languages. But yeah, I lived there for a
little bit. And the weather extremes are brutal, profound.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
I haven't been there. Oh have I been there in winter?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
No?
Speaker 1 (01:36):
I haven't been.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
There in winter. I lived in Beijing. They have brutal winters,
very dry and cold, because Beijing is on the outskirts
of the Gobi Desert. In the wintertime, the Gobi Desert
tries to reclaim the city, as they say in local lore,
and so you get tons of sandstorms and it's nuts
and bonkers. But the weather was crazy, and even crazier
(01:58):
was what happened in Shanghai. Let's just jump in there.
They did in there a sort of a fairy tale,
yeah story, fairy tale, you know, we talked a lot
about Arthur Rindy Kinish, Yeah last week, because he was
tearing through everybody. Everybody, yea, including our favorite winer alex
Verev and lo and behold he faces off against his
(02:23):
cousin Valentine.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Did you say cousin in French? I don't know. I
don't know how you say cousin of French.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
He faced off against his cousin Valentine Vauchera in the finals,
which is a crazy story. Who came through qualities? What
did you make of all of this? He beat Novak Djokovic.
I mean this was a mass that he beat calder Garuna,
like this was a win, a master's one thousand wins.
Like you you didn't think either these guys were gonna
get very far on the main draw period in the finals.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Rindy Kinishi could make an argument that you know it
was a shock, No, because he's been playing very good
tennis over the last twelve months and he's got a big,
dangerous game. And China is notoriously quite fast a surface,
although everyone including certain players again have complained about the
(03:10):
pace of the courts are all the same, but it
is usually a pretty quick sort of surface. So it
does lend itself to players with big games, big serves,
players that like to come into the nat players that
like to be aggressive, and obviously Ridna Kinesh is sort
of that along those lines. He likes to get into
the neat, he likes to impose his big, big, strong,
tall body on the court. And yeah, I mean, he
(03:31):
had a fabulous tournament, but then he you know, the
great moment was when his cousin walks on the court
to congratulate him forgetting in the final, and then they
have to play against each other. I mean, you haven't
seen this very often, Like we don't have a lot
of siblings or you know, family members playing up against
each other. Of course, the greatest rivalry of all timers,
(03:51):
you know, the Williams sisters, the Malava sisters back in
the day, But in the men's game, you don't see it.
I can't even other than Bob and Mike Brian, but
they didn't even play and see each other, I'm sure,
and singles on the ATP tour. So it's a real
rarity to see family members. And they're sort of very similar.
They're tall, they're sort of lanky, they play that they
have that you know, big swings on their groundstrokes, and
(04:12):
he was just a better player. I mean, he played
great against Novak. I don't know what was going on
with Novak. He like had some injury in the leg,
but then seemed to be moving great in the second set.
So I'm not I mean, I just I think he
was the better player, and I think it's again, well,
you know, let's talk about Novak a little bit before
we talk about this fairy tale ending for this tournament.
(04:33):
But you know, he's just breaking down all the time.
If there was a legit injury, which you know, I'm
assuming it was in the first set, he looked pretty
good in the second set. But the same thing keeps
happening latter parts of tournaments for him, right, And if
you're talking about in best of three against a guy
that he should that literally said to him, it was
such a pleasure to play against you, it was.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
That's not exactly the thing you want to me here
when you're working up the net.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Now, the guy lost his first game, you know, and
you think Novak's gonna winness like two and two, and
the guy comes back and beats him legit on being
a better player that day. He bait him. He was
a better player that day. He was taking the ball earlier,
he was coming into the net, he was playing bigger.
Novak just doesn't look like he has enough on the
ball anymore against some of these players. And I mean, look,
(05:17):
he's the greatest player of all time, he has all
the records. But at some point, and I've spoken about
it for months actually maybe even a year or two,
fila time catches up with you and he just looks
like he doesn't quite have enough on the ball. He's
not imposing himself as much. He's not serving as great
as he used to when he won a lot of
these big tournaments and big matches, And at some point
it catches up with you, and you know, you just
(05:38):
wonder how long is he going to do this for?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Well, you've said before, and it seems given the timing
that it wouldn't be the craziest to imagine that he
calls it a day in around Australia, just given his
record there and how much success he's had there in
the past, and obviously given the big Serbian population, I mean,
it feels like of a lot of the big Moments tour,
this would be a very fitting one for him.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah, And I think the reason Caitlin I say it
is because he knows he can give one or two
really hard months of training, yeah, and then go down
to Australia and get the job done or not. Yeah,
but twenty five either we have a really strong showing,
really strong, stay healthy. But I just don't see. I mean, listen,
I hope I'm wrong. I want him to keep playing.
(06:23):
I mean, he's always so great to have in the draw,
but I just feel like, is he going to want
to keep just just grinding until the French and Wimbledon again?
I mean you have to think about that's six that's
nine months away essentially, you know, So is he going
to grind and play like Indian Wells and Miami and
you know, Monte Carlo and Barcelona and all these tournaments
(06:45):
again just to get to the French because he only
cares about the French and Wimbledon and the you are.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
He's trying to win another humulate points Masters one thousand
or a Master's five hundred.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
He's got all the records. There's no reason for him
to play anymore. So I just think I think mentally
it's such a grind and I said it. It was about
three years ago. I swear I interviewed him before a
match at the US Open, and there were things that
he said, and I don't know which episode it was
that we did, but he gave me an answer going
on to the court that felt different. It was just
(07:18):
along the lines I think. I asked him along the
lines of, you know, how do you get up? I mean,
playing Arthur ash at night? You know, how do you
get up for these matches? Still? And he has you
know what, I don't know. I can't remember exactly, but.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Not the sort of enthusiastic ready, I don't even know myself.
And I was like, oh, yeah, that's weird.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Yeah, it was just I don't know this moment in
time in my life as a commentator and as somebody
who gets to interview these amazing players. I just remember
thinking that felt different, that felt weird. And I don't
think he's won a Slam since that tournament.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Well, I will say, I think something that happens at
all levels of tennis is you sense some vulnerability. You
sense you know, people have auras and energy and certain inevitability,
storylines hanging around them. I mean, the best players. It's
you know, it's impenetrable. They just carry that aura of
like I am here to win, and you see them
(08:13):
do it so often that they and everybody else start
to believe that nothing else could possibly happen in terms
of the outcome. And then, you know, some chinks in
the armor start to appear and you start to say, oh,
that that aura has has faded a little bit. And
now that's certainly the case. I mean again, Novakhchyokovic is
making a semi at a Master's one thousand at age
eleveny billion, so like kudos. I mean, it's not I mean,
these aren't bad showings at all, but at some point,
(08:35):
but it is do you want to get on another plane?
Do you want to leave your kids that are getting older?
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Do you do you? You know, you start thinking, do
I semi finals making? You know two hundred thousand? Yeah,
that's great, fantastic. The guy's got a hundred million plus
dollars in the bank. He doesn't need any more money.
It's for me. It's a matter of you know, at
some point you have to say how much more do
I want to do this? And you just wonder, And
that's why I think maybe the strain open is a
(09:00):
real doable time for him time frame and then just
drop them. I can leave. And also the other thing
is that I want to say is that these other
players know that. Now, that's the difference. Like this qualifier
who's looked up to Novak his whole life, who says
what a pleasure it was and what you know, Oh
my god, Like he was so reverent when he went
(09:22):
to the net and said something. But at some point
you've got to be like, even a guy like that
is like, oh main, I actually on the court thought
I could win. Yeah, those matches you don't usually win,
all right, and Novak doesn't usually lose those types of matters.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I mean, would going back to this cousin display, I
mean they were teammates at the University in Texas, Texa
and m that's a place I have played many times,
College Station and that is a very very good men's program.
But you don't necessarily see a lot of stepping stones
to the ATP Tour. One of them, Frenda Connection is
now ranked twenty eight. Valentin Vasher is ranked forty now
(10:00):
a career high. I want to point out because I
don't know a lot of people know this Arthur. Rinda
Kanesh's mother is named Virginy Paque. Can you think of
anybody else whose last name is Paquet? Chloe Paque? On
the tour, the women's tour, who is their cousin? Also,
this is a there's a third and it's a lady.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
I love you coming with the knowledge.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Listen, there's one thing I'm going to do, and it's
research French tennis players. I realized that Valentin Vashero competes
under the mona Gesque flag. He is a Monica citizen,
butod he was born in France and this family is French.
And whatever the grandparents were doing to birth a bevy
of professional tennis players is hats off Chapeau.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
I guess you would say nothing will compare to the
Malaba sisters. For me, it's still somebody needs to write
that documentary. That's one of the most unbelievable stories. Three girls,
three women inside the top ten, and I believe they
might have even been there at the same time at
one point. Believe that's it's just unbelievble. I mean, of course,
being us and Serena, but you know, but this is
three I love it, like come on, I love it.
(11:01):
I love that anyway. So yes, what an amazing effort
from him. Great job, well done.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Fantastic outcome. I do want to say, so we talked
a little about no Vectroovic. It does, yeah, like a
little bit of a missed opportunity for Medvedev here and listen,
his brain has been scrambled eggs for the better part
of eighteen months. So I don't want to like hang
too many things on this, but zooming out from Medvedev himself,
who I think everyone can agree this is a much
(11:27):
much better looking yeah, Danil Medvedev than what we saw
the summer in DC. Yeah, and the OS Open, where
no racket was safe from him smashing into smithereens or
water bottle or water bottle or bench or bench or whatever.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Coach.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
But I do want to sort of point out, like
I'm not a big rivalry person. I don't care that
much about the hegemony of one or two players at
the top, but it does sort of uh speak to
the idea that like, hey, if Yannick Center and Carlos
Alcarez are defeated, PA injured, retire whatever as was the case,
(12:03):
not to play, choose not to play as was the
case in both counts for this tournament. Like who's stepping
up and filling void there?
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Well, apparently nobody.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Great, Yeah, two obscure cousins from the Texas A and
m Maggie's, which is again great and fun.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
That's like why we love tennis. Go to school. Kids,
go to school.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Oh to school, totally go to school, you know, cam Norry.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
I've said this for years. I'm such a proponent, especially
on the men's tour, to play college tennis, Like why
not get a scholarship? Go you get the most amazing training.
You know, Caitlin, you did it. I did not. I
went straight to the pros. It was very different for me.
But given the opportunity, I would have liked I probably
would have loved to play two or three. It would
have been really good for me to actually play college tennis,
because I kind of waffled around for a few years,
(12:48):
like eighteen, nineteen, twenty twenty one. I mean, I think
I qualified at Wimbledon when I was eighteen or maybe
nineteen or something. But I think I honestly could have
done that and gone to college. That's what Lisa Raymond did.
She went to college for two years, and I think
made the fourth round of Wimbledon at one point still
at college, lost a type like a really unbelievable match
to Jennifer DICAPRIARTI, who was pro. And so there are
(13:10):
people that can do it, you know, Danielle Collins like,
so I just think if you're a little unsure and Navarro,
I mean, if you're a little bit unsure of sort
of like what you're capable of doing, go to school
and you can still play professionally for sure.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
And I would say for especially on the men's side.
You know, if you're playing at Texas Texas and m Florida, Stanford,
these are probably Alloys Illinois, Like there are several of
these programs that are quite elite who spit out pros. Yes,
maybe they don't stay for all four years. USC is
a great program, like, but yeah, you're getting the competition.
(13:45):
Maybe take a year or two. Get the strength training,
get the exactly, get the physique, get the you know.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Get the coaching. To go to a school with a
really good coach, good players. You know, you're going to
get two or three hours of practice every single day.
You're going to get in the gym, you're going to
have your nutrition less. You're gonna have literally a professional
style at college if you go to the right school,
and that can develop your game to be a better pro.
And then when you go in the pros, you you've
played and won a lot of matches and that really helps.
(14:14):
Then you go to the Challenger too, and you're like, Okay,
you're firing away there and you're winning matches, and then
you get into the pros and you can do I mean,
it's just unbelievable. This what this guy. I love it.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
I mean, it's a great it's a great story. And yeah,
let's see what these these many cousins have to have
to do it.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Once I did look at the race to Turin, and
Carlos Akarez has eleven thousand points and Yannick Sinner has
eighty five hundred points. The next closest is Novak Djokovic
at forty five, one hundred and eighty.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Poll they're like lapping every I mean that.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Is and then and then it's Vera forty two eighty,
Taylor Fritz, Ben Shelton, Alex dimonor Lorenzo Mussetti. So there
is a fight still for the last couple of spots.
It looks like those eight that I just said a
problem ble locked in though, because Jack Draper is not
really playing right He's not playing right now, and he
is five hundred points behind the lines. Tommy Paul is
(15:08):
he in the mix there? No, he's not. Tommy. Tommy
hasn't had a great year. I mean, you know, comparative
to the way he played last year, Tommy is not
even close. He's twentieth. He has no chance. It's like
Kolgaruna Rude is eleven, Felix asia Alissimus twenty nine, but
that he is five hundred points, almost five hundred points,
(15:28):
four hundred and fifty points behind Mussetti. So if Massetti
and dem Or not shit the bed and don't win
another round this year, and Felix wins and does something
great like winning an indoor tournament, which he's done before
in the house he likes, then he has I think
that's the only guy that can get into the top
eight now. So so that's they're really firing there, and
(15:50):
that's really important. So I just wanted to add that
before we got onto the.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
I mean, it's kind of related to this idea that
like if there's yeah, I can curlos, then where is
everybody else, and the through is pretty far behind. They're
in the Maldives, the rest of them around the world,
all right under the women.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
On to the women. Okay, so we stand corrected it
in so many ways. Okay, And I'm the first to
say I was wrong, but I'm not. I'm I was
wrong in one sense. But also I still stand behind
sort of the thought process of Coco not going and
playing in Asia, okay, and working on her game and
working on the part because she's only got a certain
(16:28):
amount of time before this rain open. But God, lover,
she goes and wins in Wuhan, and it's just like,
you know, what are you gonna do? And played really well. Look,
I feel like this is the story of Cooker. But
she played Look, I'll be really honest, like her draw
was pretty good. She didn't play against women that are
smacking the ball right. True. The hardest hitter that she
(16:51):
really played was, of course, Paulini hits the ball really
well and really hard, but with a bit of spin,
and Coco's game with that loopy forehand and run the
ball down. And the funny thing is Pauline's beat her
every time this year, So I give her a ton
of credit for getting that win, but other than Jess,
who I's got to say had to be out of steam.
(17:12):
Oh my god, how the hell did Jess Bigola make
the final? Not based on the fact that we know
how well she can play, but what the fuck? I mean,
that girl is on the court for twenty million hours
and vane.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
It was insane and she managed to beat like Aria
Sabalanca that hasn't lost at one.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
I don't think, no ever, no ever, no, I think
it was something crazy like twenty something matches, but also.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Twenty one and zero going into the Wuhan semi final.
She's only won that tournament.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
And she's been Jess like so many times in big matches,
and it's like she gets up five to two, I believe,
in the third and just goes to somewhere else, not Woophan,
the Maldives and the Maldives, and Jess started playing unbelievable
that I guess kind of had that attitude of our
fuck this shit, yeah, cannot lose again, fuck it and
then just started like hitting winners all over the place
(17:59):
in Sabalanne and hit a ball I loved it, like
couldn't make above it. And then Jess saved for the
match and couldn't get her. All of a sudden she
started choking her service, like horrendous. She'll be the first
to admit it. That's why I can say it. And
then you're just like, oh my god, who's going to
win this match. But prior to that though, also Elena Rubakina,
that was a smoking from Sablenka straight said she is
(18:20):
not like getting it done either, and she's trying to
get into the last spots of the WTA final aid
as well in rehad and so that was a that
was not a good That was an easy two set
match in the end from Saballage. And Sabilinka was playing
unbelievable that match. She was serving big, she was crushing
four hands all over the place. It was like look out.
(18:40):
And then all of a sudden, little Jess Bogola just
says no, not today, not today. Not today.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Might have been every other day leading up to this,
but not today. I mean I loved it. So what
was her draw, Jess Bagola?
Speaker 1 (18:52):
I mean she.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Brutal, absolutely brutal. Jess Begoola came into the final list.
Those two have pleaded each other a lot. They played
doubles together. You know, obviously they know each other's games
very very well, and I think, all things considered, just
put up a good fight. But yes, you could clearly
see that after going through sabal Anca, Sineakova, Alexandrova, who's
(19:14):
had a great year, you know, Hailey Baptiste, who she
barely barely got away with eating eight eight six and
the third set tiebreak like she's had. You know, she
she battled. She had every single match going into the
final with three sets. Every single match, I know it
was in some were some were tighter than others, like
the Sineakova match she kind of ran away with, but
(19:36):
the Sabalanca match was brutal third set tiebreak, you know,
Alexanderva really took it to her. Those were three hard,
WoT sets, and yeah, Hailey Baptiste seven six and third,
like she really had no easy road.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
And then she gets to the final and just like
I'm sure she was kind of like and Coco is
the worst kind of player for her to play against. Okay,
why because not one point is going to be easy.
You're gonna buy every point and no matter how well
Jess is hitting the ball, it's coming back and it's
coming back with height on the forehand, it's coming back
with some power on the backhand. It's coming back with
(20:09):
some shitty slice forehands that are going to make her
get down and hit her another make her hit a slice,
whether it be off the back end or the forehand.
Coco is gonna junk you. She's not gonna miss.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
She's gonna hit loop, slice, flat, cheesy, whatever it takets,
she's gonna make you flight, She'll make it.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
She'll bring it to you. I mean, she is the
ultimate at certain times, not all the time. So don't
take this the wrong way people that love Cocoke, because
you know how much I love her. She's the able, ultimate,
winning ugly. She really would be the first to say it.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
I mean, one of the things that was funny, but
in post tournament commentary, she released her video of herself
singing karaoke and celebrating afterwards, and she was like, yeah,
my team tried to tell me not to do this,
but guess what, I'm stubborn, And I think to.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Your point, she's stubborn. She's so stubborn. Hes stubborn in
even playing that thing.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, and then she's stubborn in the way she wins
especial situations where maybe she's got to win ugly, and
I think, you know, list't winning ugly, it is still winning.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
And my look, my thing was okay, and you know this,
I said this. It's the thing about winning ugly, is it.
It's got to be so stressful, Like at some point,
how much is she going to be able to take?
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yeah, you're adrenal glance of like just being like zero, God,
I can't get a serve in the court.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Oh my god, I can't hit my forehand. Ah, it's
not like I'm just having okay, I'm a bit nervous today.
Like Jessica Gula, her biggest issue was always like, oh
my bracket doesn't feel great, and she's kinetically always hitting
her strings and being like I can't feel the ball.
And she's never like I can't hit I know I
can hit a serve or well, there was a period
of time there in the Sabalanca match where she.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Couldn't, but you know what I mean, Traditionally she's not.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
I would hate to walk out on the court and
know that there were two weaknesses that were so glaring
that everybody knew about. And as soon as I missed
one or two of them. I'm like, oh my god,
everybody knows I can't hit my forehand in the court
right now. It's like, how much like Sabalanca's not walking
out there? I mean she was when she was double
folding twenty eight times a match herself and serving under'm
she was like she had anxiety based on her surf. Right,
(22:06):
how many players in the top ten are going, oh
my god, I hope I can hit that shot in
the court today. And that is Coco. There are times
where she was double folding again it was in the
semis or the final or whatever. But no, she just
keeps going. I mean, I don't know. She's built different.
She is built different. I mean I give her tons
(22:27):
of credit. Fuck I mean, I mean, I love it.
I don't know if that's the right thing because at
some point, again in a big match at the major's okay,
because it is a different feeling. Is it going to
hurt her though that she hasn't worked on those things enough.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
I kind of feel this way about Coco all the time,
which is just like she's so good, she's such a fighter,
she's such a great boon to the sport. I can't
fathom why six months haven't been sacrificed at some point
along the way to just shore up the problems. Yeah,
(23:05):
because it can't be fun winning this way. But what
I tell you what today, I guess you know, lifting
the trophy of your head is the ultimate statement.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
So like, what right now, I'll tell you what's not
fun when you're a coaching team and she wins the
tournament says you know what, Fuck you guys, You're not
getting a bonus. Did you want to come.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Here? We were on Well, you know what, I'm keeping
my money because I came because I had to.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Do it on b of you guys. Yeah, that's not.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
That's a really interesting bit of insight.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah, we do have to also mention that Paulini just
she like smokes that was awesome, Like she played out
of her mind. I mean, shiron Tech also was not.
There's two things about shrion Tech and Rebeccna very similar
in the losses that they had just bad errors, just
(24:04):
not making the right shot at the right time. And
I don't know if that's lacking in confidence. I think
that could be the case with maybe Rebekina, but with Eager.
I mean I'm kind of like don't know if she's
in that space of being confident or not. You know,
she won in Korea and then she's been playing a
lot when's Wimbledon, so you kind of think she's kind
(24:24):
of in that like floating purgatory area right now, really
not knowing what she's doing. But you know, like I'll
give you an example. Two break points for Rebekina sable
Anca hit. I mean, because Rebekina can serve you off
the court like no, she's ind and you know, Sablenka
takes two returns and smacks them cross court to rabeck
(24:44):
In's backhand, and I kind have had like an opportunity
to go back cross quarter back through the middle, and
she tried to go down the line twice, bang down
the line, missing in the bottom of the banged down
the line, missing in the bottom of the net again,
And I'm like, that's technically one of the biggest points
of the match. You cannot afford to lose your serve
against sable Anka on one of the on two of the
biggest points in the match, I E. Breakpoint. You chose
(25:05):
to hit the hardest shot and as good as your
back end is and her back end is, who it's
as good as anybody's has ever been. You chose to
try and hit that one down the line, and then
you did it again on another breakpoint, So that, to me,
that's just bad shot selection. And then for Tech, very
similar in a lot of ways, like had opportunities and
(25:26):
just sort of miss them and you just think, oh,
is that really the right shot to hit there? And
then on top of that, Paolini playing unbelievable and Sablanca
playing unbelievable, which is why those matches were straight sets. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
for sure.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I mean for me, the there was.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
No Choco out there when and ugly getting that ball
back in the court. No, like Coco is not going
to try and hit that back and down the line. No,
he's going to take that back cross court.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
D true, And she's just want to speak percentage shut okay,
you you now go down the line. That's right. I
love seeing Paulini surge in this part of the calendar
year and be part of the conversation again, she's your
favorite player. The tour is so strong when she is
playing well, and in years past we have had nothing
(26:07):
but big hitters win in Asia traditionally, and so.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
The fact that big service big hitters, yet you know
it's fast.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
As you said, the Nisimova and Sabilanca and Rabakna game
style is certainly favored in that and instead we have,
you know, some variety which again going into if the
year end tournament finals are to be interesting, and we've
already kind of established that. Besides Yannick Center and Carlos
Ocaas on the men's side, I don't know who else
(26:35):
is going to bring their A game to turn the women.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
It seems like it's way more I.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Can tell you what the final is going to be
there already, Carlos Andiganik. Yeah, Yannick wins in three sets,
Yeah right, yeah, probably Yeah. I think when you look
at the race of the WTA finals, boy oh boy,
is a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
When you look at who is in that section read
the points, I'm curious. So so Sablanca is pretty far
ahead of everybody else. She's actually at ten thousand straight
points twent ten thousand on the nose, not even ten thousand,
one hundred ten ten down number. I think I've ever
seen that, to be honest, because it's very rare. Sean
take eighty three hundred and sixty eight. So they are locked.
(27:18):
Coco Goff locked in at number three, anissimo but at
fifty nine hundred points, so you know those four are locks.
Jess Bagoula is already in as well at fifty one
eighty three, and then there's a fight. Then you have
Maddie Keys at forty four hundred and forty nine points,
Number six Andreva forty three nineteen, so about one hundred
(27:42):
and twenty points behind, which is like the difference between
a quarter and a semi for example, at the next tournament,
now it comes down to winning or maybe a runner
up and a five hundred, and then Pauolini is at
eight at forty one hundred and thirty one points. Now
the big, big thing for Paulini was this week. Her
(28:02):
beating shon Tech and getting to the semis really helped
her because Rebarkina is at thirty nine thirteen, Okay, so
she is about one hundred let's see one hundred and
thirty about she's about two hundred points behind Pauolini. Now,
so that's a massive difference, right because when you so,
she's literally the only one that can pass Paolini. Alexandrova
(28:26):
is at thirty one fifty eight, so she is a
thousand points behind Paulini, so there's no chance of her
catching The only one that can catch Paolini is a Rebarkina.
And I believe there is a bunch of indoor tournaments.
So look, if Rabarkin is going to jump over Paulini,
it's certainly possible playing indoors in Europe. But that is
the only one. And so they jumped over Paulini, jumped
(28:49):
over Rebarkina for the number eight spot in the WTA
finals race in this tournament. So that's how important that
tournament was for Pauolini. And if Paulini had beaten Coco Oh,
that would have helped her mandus amount. But having said that,
she beats Riantech and now she's she's in the WTA
finals and rebark In it is outside of the top eight.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
It's it's all going to come down to the next
three weeks. In Asia. Yep, they don't go. The women
don't go to Europe.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
The men do.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
But they're in China, Japan, Hong Kong.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
And I got to tell you, Caitlin, I have been
there for this situation. I have been there for this
situation as a player in my own right, chasing points,
and I've been there as a coach with a player
who was chasing points, and it is so stressful. Sure,
it is so stressful and warrant profound, Yeah, of course,
and you're like, don't worry about what parl Like if
(29:40):
you're a rebek in this coach, or if you're a
poliness coach, you're like, don't worry about what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
You just you go and win the tournament. That's If
you win the tournament, you're going to be in and
you're going to be fine.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
You're like, yeah, And then all of a sudden, you're like,
you win one match and all you're doing is looking
at the scoreboard. Are they winning? Are they winning? Are
they winning? Did they lose? Did they lose? Because you like,
at this point, at this time of the year, you
have a shit about winning the tournament. You're just like,
I just want to get into you stuff. Let me
get in finals, you know. So yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
So it reminds me of October baseball, where it's like,
not enough for your team to win, the other teams
have to lose.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
You got to have a good record to get into
the postseason. I want to take a.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Pretty hard pivot out of the Asia Swing to talk
a little bit about two folks we've talked at length
about on the podcast, and you don't know at all
what I'm going to talk about. So I'm excited for
you to see your face.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
I love when you do this to me.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Yeah, So as you run, need a drum roll, get
into drubble. So as you know, Nick Curios has a podcast. Yes,
Nipios has been talking to a lot of folks on
his podcast.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
God I'm so scared now.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
And Nick Curios has, uh, you know, taking shots. It's
a lot easier for him to take those shots when
he's not playing tennis and doesn't have to back anything
up on the tennis court. And over the weekend he
took a bit of a shot at Andy Murray, Oh,
which you know, geez, here we go yikes, And you know,
I don't want to say it is the worst, but
(31:02):
he was basically like, we used to be friends. We're
not friends anymore. I guess, and these are his words.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
I guess.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
He's just like a colleague. I mean, we used to
be closer. He was one of the people who's very
supportive of me, but now we don't talk. I wanted
him on my podcast and he acted too important. There's
your truth, bro find some time.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Well, maybe Andy doesn't want to come on your podcast.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
It's pretty clear any Marie does not want to come
on your And.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
I think one of the reasons why I would venture
to say is that Andy doesn't want to have any
controversial shit out there, and he probably feels like it's
going to be a bit of a gotcha. Sure right,
And that's what you have to know when you do
podcasts or when you do especially long form interviews, which
a long form interview of people out there means it's long. Okay,
(31:49):
it's like thirty minutes, forty minutes an hour.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Yeah, you're not doing You're not doing at the desk
at Tennis Channel after you wint to matchine. You're unraveling
some big themes.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
You're going into some moment getting told in our ear
two minutes maximum, get him off the court. It's not
going to This is a different.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Situation I would if I were Andy Murray also hadly
go on Andy Raddick's podcast.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Andy Raddick podcast is great. Andy Raddick, I'm sure respects him,
and Andy, if you want to come on mine and.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Now, sure, yeah, come on, And I'm sure Andy Murray
would have a great time on a lot of the
other really excellent tennis podcasts. I'm not sure that I
would choose to go on Nick Curious podcast, knowing how
controversial Nick has become in the last couple of years.
And yeah, it kind of the bedmeats who's kept with
you know, the Andrew Tears of the World and other folks.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Did he say anything, did he say anything controversial about
Andy over the last couple of years.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
He's not, He's not ingratiated himself to a lot of
these players.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
I think the arey don't necessarily trust.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
That he's gonna do right by him, do right by
him necessarily. And and now I think if there's stipulation's
right to say, Okay, I'm happy to come on it,
but I don't want to. I don't want you asking
me about this, and I don't want you to ask
me about or or I have full control over what
goes out, But then you don't know, right, shit gets leaked,
stuff gets said, somebody will say something.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
This is what he said on the pod. We didn't
release it.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
I mean, just yeah, it's if I were any Murray,
I would hang out with my kids and my wife,
and UH play golf, play golf and be funny because
that's what he's doing on my own terms and uh
playing a lot of golf.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Keep it moving.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
So but it is really funny to sort of Nick's
uh sort of claims it relevance seemed to be the
further away we get from him playing professional tennis, a
little bit more desperate.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
I don't know, the whole thing is here. He's going
to be in New York, Yeah, being in the Garden Cup,
I believe December eighth. Yeah, the last one wasn't very good.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
So maybe this I mean, you know, look, I got
to tell you, you know when I when I look
at it as an overall picture, I just it's he
I feel like.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
And Nick will never agree. Nick will never admit this,
and maybe we get him on this podcast and ask
him this question. Long for an interview with Renee Stabbs.
But I just feel like in twenty years time, he's
going to look back on his career and he's going
to regret a lot of things. And if if if
if if it's exactly right, if if it doesn't exist,
(34:08):
like if does not exist?
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Put in the work, you didn't you got the results
who didn't you can always you know, there's honor and
leaving it all out there and come, but there's not
a lot of honor.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
And you know, look, look he got he got injuries.
There's no question that he had. You know, it was
a terrible risk injury. And someone who like someone who
knows what that feels like. I had a risk injury
and was out for nine months and it really derailed
my singles career, team dominic, team, bench del Potro. I
think it's the worst, for sure, the worst injury a
tennis player can have. If you can't hit the tennis ball,
(34:39):
you can't play tennis. You know, of course every injury
is bad, but you know, I would argue to say
that a risk injury is the worst injury you can
have as a tennis player. But you know, if you
don't put the work in enough week in and week
out and you sustain it like a Novak Djokovic has done,
and like Rufa did, and Roger and you know, Serena
and all these people. The reason why they were great
(34:59):
is because they work hard every single day and they
didn't take a day off. And greatness comes with the
most incredible work ethic and it's really hard. It's really
hard mentally to be out there on the tour for
twenty plus years, like you know, the greats of the
game have done. It's mentally draining. It's why these players
(35:20):
are pulling out left and rights, why we've been asking
about changing the calendar and tennis has changed. Like I
literally sit and watch some of these matches, Caitlin, and
I'm like, these points are going for like thirty forty
seconds minimally, you know, we're talking like some of these
points are going for like a minute.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
If you watch old YouTube videos, it's so comical.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yeah, how different. Yeah, and it's not the faults of
thirty forty years ago.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
And there's a lot to love about the old day
of playing, but clearly, but it's a different game, this
different game overall. Point is absolutely correct, which.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Is just saw a guy who wasn't even in qualifying
beat the greatest player of all time and win a
Master's one thousand and he played college. Yes, Like the
level is of all the players has gotten so much better,
and these players are so good. I mean I was
watching the match in particular against Novak, even in the
(36:13):
second set, I mean, it was incredible points and the final,
like they were battling like twenty thirty forty ball rallies.
Even when I was watching the women's like Jessica Pagoula
and sable Anca and like Coco and I mean, they
were playing like fifty ball rallies. It was insane and
barely breathing. Like literally, there was one.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Point that Sabalaninka try to hit a twin out was
the dumber shot she could ever hit and actually didn't
end up costing her in that particular.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
I respect that particular, but I was like, what the
hell is that? But like just played like a forty
ball rally and was barely breathing. I'm like, these players
are so fit. They put in so much hard work.
So if you want to be great, if you wanted
to be great, Nick Carros, you had to put in
the work week in and week out for years and
years and years, and you build layers of fitness and
(37:00):
build layers of ability to have a hang in there
in the big moments. And you were you great to
beat Roger Rafa and Novak. And there are the players
that can say that, no, yeah, wait to go unbelievable room.
But man I swear in twenty years time, he's gonna
look back and go, you won't ever admit it in public. Yeah,
(37:20):
I don't think, Yeah, but I think to himself in
the mirror. And I heard this on my favorite podcast
of all time right now is Amy Pollack. Good hang,
but agreed to good hand. Kristen Wigg said, you know
what I used to do, look at myself in the mirror.
And you look at yourself in the mirror and tell
yourself because you can't lie to yourself, right. And so
she would like look in the mirror and like say
(37:41):
the things that she needed to say to herself. And
they can posit whatever eations or you got to get
your sit together. You got to stop thinking because you
cannot lie to yourself in the mirror, right. And so
Nick needed to look at himself in the mirror and
be like, what could I be doing better? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Or or or let me address what actually this is,
which is probably a little bit of fear.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Yeah. Well you know, listen, go back on the podcast
that I've talked. We've talked about this at length. So
much of it came from his childhood. I think so
much of it came from him being bullied as a kid, sure,
growing up at Australia as a you know, a person
of color in a very country sort of town. Inch
in Canberra. It's our capital, but it's you know, it's
not like Sydney or Melbourne. And I think he was
(38:23):
bullied to as a kid, and I think that really
made a difference in his life to how he thought
about things. So I don't know. I think he's in
unbelievable case study for what could have been and he
is the ultimate if if if if if if.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Let's end on a positive note, which is we are
going to be making some changes at the POD. I
think we're going to try to be filming these and
we're going to be doing some live events. Yeah, more
to come on that front. Will have some very exciting announcements,
especially for people who live or travel to New York often,
because that is obviously we're we're beast. What do you
(38:57):
want to hear from us? What do you want to
see from us? What should we talk about? Give us
some good end of the year topics, especially before Renee
heads down south for Australia, and we'll try to finish
the year with a bang, because it's been a really
good one. We've had amazing it's been a bang every year.
We're different Grand Slam champions on the women's side, crazy
amazing Grand Slam champion and not like random, no great
(39:18):
keys after spending two decades on the tour basically and
getting her made in the Slam in the most deserved fashion,
unbelievable eagish fiantec her least favorite surface. Nobody said she
could even make it basically like a final, much less
win one wins Wimbledon. We've got the French Hoko winning
the French and oldest, which you know, it just everything
(39:39):
was amazing. And then on the men's side we have,
you know, really a dialogue of two people, and the
tournaments have been unbelievably good. And you know, obviously as
tennis always provides us with amazing storylines, we've had those
in spades. So drop us a line. You know, Renee's
on Twitter, were on Instagram to give us some messages.
Let us know and we'll be back in your ear
(40:00):
to start looking towards the very last chapter of the
year and also end.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
On a how note, And you know what I think
would be fun for everyone out there, because the USTA
implemented that mixed doubles, new thing, and then the strain
opens to do in their one point for a million dollars.
You should get down there, Caitlin, you have no win. Ugly,
get that serve and volley.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
It makes you think I'm gonna win, Ugly, slide that forehand,
and my whole thing is losing.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Pretty like, how fun is that? For a million dollars.
Alcoraz has already said he's doing it. I mean, listen,
any player that's a good, decent player could win a
point against a great player if they get lucky right.
You could hit shank a ball, you could like hit
a neck chord, like it's possible. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
I always said, if I were ever to play one
of the game's great it's like a serena. I'm just
going to try to to tree. You know what I
would do. I'm not trying to get in a rally.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
I'm going to give you all a little hint out there.
This is what you should do if you're an amateur player.
Serve under arm, Seriously, serve under armed. Just chuck it in. Sure,
they had to have to run forward, they're gonna have
to eat it, and you might hit a passing shot.
A lot. It's possible. So anyway, my point in saying
this is that it's interesting that all the majors are
(41:06):
starting to sort of try and one up each other
in these new different aspects of tennis. I like it.
I think it's fun. I don't think Wimbledon's ever going
to do anything like that, but you know what, that's
kind of the unique thing. Yeah, but at the same time,
Wimbledon need to start really thinking about how they're going
to grow, right because these other tournaments are making so
much money now trying to do these new implementations of
(41:27):
three weeks. I have a whole big idea, but I'll
save another praccast. Oh should we save that on for
next week?
Speaker 2 (41:31):
I mean, maybe it's the most glaringly off topic off
season idea. But I don't think Wimbledon should embrace not
their tradition, which is.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Tell you what they should do. Everyone should have to
serve in volley one time in their service game.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Oh wow, one out of every serv and but that's
a great idea. Yeah, mandatory servant.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Play your tournament. Yeah, play one tournament, first to six games.
You have to serve and volley one time at least
one time. One time serve on your service game. I
just think they should expand the grass season and make
it a whole thing. That's what I think. Yeah, well,
you and I love the love the grass, so do
best are not against that best service? Service?
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Is that technically the same speed every week? So would
Zara be happy? Yeah, no, he'd be complaining as he
always does. Yeah, just give him something to complain about anyway.
All right, all right, guys, thanks so much. We're off
to dinner here in New York, and thanks joining us
this week.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
To you next week, you next week, babe,
Listen.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
There's one thing I'm going to do and it's research
French tennis players.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Hey, hi, everybody, welcome to the Renee Subs Tennis Podcast.
It is a gloomy, awful day in New York City.
It's been great though the weather. Every time we get
on here, we do mention it. I do want everyone
to know that it's.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
A really important thing for us to live in in
this in this city. For Nastus Meteorology podcast. Yeah, that's
what you guys, tune in for.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
It, right, it's it's it's about how I feel as
a person in general.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
You know.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
It's some sets moved.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I guess your name is on the podcast, so you
can set the agenda.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
This is true. So if you want to talk about
the weather. So if I fuck it up, yeah, it's
all it's terrible. It's all on me because there you go. Caitlin.
We had a week in China. We did, we did.
We can chain it, you know.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Speaking of the weather, the weather was really hot, really humid,
and it was super super sweaty, which candidly I was
jealous of. I was really wishing that it was this hot.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
I was steamy here. The funny thing I was about
to say to you, was have you been to China
in that heat? And I was like, oh, that's right, forget,
I forgot you lived there, I did. How long did
you live there? For eighteen months? I lived there for years,
So yeah, that's sufficient enough.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Beijing mostly Shaghai, went citian Zen and Gwandaan a couple
of times. You know, I haven't been to I mean,
China's a massive, massive, massive country. They speak, you know,
dozens of languages. But yeah, I lived there for a
little bit. And the weather extremes are brutal, profound.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
I haven't been there. Oh have I been there in winter?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
No?
Speaker 1 (01:36):
I haven't been.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
There in winter. I lived in Beijing. They have brutal winters,
very dry and cold, because Beijing is on the outskirts
of the Gobi Desert. In the wintertime, the Gobi Desert
tries to reclaim the city, as they say in local lore,
and so you get tons of sandstorms and it's nuts
and bonkers. But the weather was crazy, and even crazier
(01:58):
was what happened in Shanghai. Let's just jump in there.
They did in there a sort of a fairy tale,
yeah story, fairy tale, you know, we talked a lot
about Arthur Rindy Kinish, Yeah last week, because he was
tearing through everybody. Everybody, yea, including our favorite winer alex
Verev and lo and behold he faces off against his
(02:23):
cousin Valentine.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Did you say cousin in French? I don't know. I
don't know how you say cousin of French.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
He faced off against his cousin Valentine Vauchera in the finals,
which is a crazy story. Who came through qualities? What
did you make of all of this? He beat Novak Djokovic.
I mean this was a mass that he beat calder Garuna,
like this was a win, a master's one thousand wins.
Like you you didn't think either these guys were gonna
get very far on the main draw period in the finals.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Rindy Kinishi could make an argument that you know it
was a shock, No, because he's been playing very good
tennis over the last twelve months and he's got a big,
dangerous game. And China is notoriously quite fast a surface,
although everyone including certain players again have complained about the
(03:10):
pace of the courts are all the same, but it
is usually a pretty quick sort of surface. So it
does lend itself to players with big games, big serves,
players that like to come into the nat players that
like to be aggressive, and obviously Ridna Kinesh is sort
of that along those lines. He likes to get into
the neat, he likes to impose his big, big, strong,
tall body on the court. And yeah, I mean, he
(03:31):
had a fabulous tournament, but then he you know, the
great moment was when his cousin walks on the court
to congratulate him forgetting in the final, and then they
have to play against each other. I mean, you haven't
seen this very often, Like we don't have a lot
of siblings or you know, family members playing up against
each other. Of course, the greatest rivalry of all timers,
(03:51):
you know, the Williams sisters, the Malava sisters back in
the day, But in the men's game, you don't see it.
I can't even other than Bob and Mike Brian, but
they didn't even play and see each other, I'm sure,
and singles on the ATP tour. So it's a real
rarity to see family members. And they're sort of very similar.
They're tall, they're sort of lanky, they play that they
have that you know, big swings on their groundstrokes, and
(04:12):
he was just a better player. I mean, he played
great against Novak. I don't know what was going on
with Novak. He like had some injury in the leg,
but then seemed to be moving great in the second set.
So I'm not I mean, I just I think he
was the better player, and I think it's again, well,
you know, let's talk about Novak a little bit before
we talk about this fairy tale ending for this tournament.
(04:33):
But you know, he's just breaking down all the time.
If there was a legit injury, which you know, I'm
assuming it was in the first set, he looked pretty
good in the second set. But the same thing keeps
happening latter parts of tournaments for him, right, And if
you're talking about in best of three against a guy
that he should that literally said to him, it was
such a pleasure to play against you, it was.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
That's not exactly the thing you want to me here
when you're working up the net.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Now, the guy lost his first game, you know, and
you think Novak's gonna winness like two and two, and
the guy comes back and beats him legit on being
a better player that day. He bait him. He was
a better player that day. He was taking the ball earlier,
he was coming into the net, he was playing bigger.
Novak just doesn't look like he has enough on the
ball anymore against some of these players. And I mean, look,
(05:17):
he's the greatest player of all time, he has all
the records. But at some point, and I've spoken about
it for months actually maybe even a year or two,
fila time catches up with you and he just looks
like he doesn't quite have enough on the ball. He's
not imposing himself as much. He's not serving as great
as he used to when he won a lot of
these big tournaments and big matches, And at some point
it catches up with you, and you know, you just
(05:38):
wonder how long is he going to do this for?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Well, you've said before, and it seems given the timing
that it wouldn't be the craziest to imagine that he
calls it a day in around Australia, just given his
record there and how much success he's had there in
the past, and obviously given the big Serbian population, I mean,
it feels like of a lot of the big Moments tour,
this would be a very fitting one for him.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah, And I think the reason Caitlin I say it
is because he knows he can give one or two
really hard months of training, yeah, and then go down
to Australia and get the job done or not. Yeah,
but twenty five either we have a really strong showing,
really strong, stay healthy. But I just don't see. I mean, listen,
I hope I'm wrong. I want him to keep playing.
(06:23):
I mean, he's always so great to have in the draw,
but I just feel like, is he going to want
to keep just just grinding until the French and Wimbledon again?
I mean you have to think about that's six that's
nine months away essentially, you know, So is he going
to grind and play like Indian Wells and Miami and
you know, Monte Carlo and Barcelona and all these tournaments
(06:45):
again just to get to the French because he only
cares about the French and Wimbledon and the you are.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
He's trying to win another humulate points Masters one thousand
or a Master's five hundred.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
He's got all the records. There's no reason for him
to play anymore. So I just think I think mentally
it's such a grind and I said it. It was about
three years ago. I swear I interviewed him before a
match at the US Open, and there were things that
he said, and I don't know which episode it was
that we did, but he gave me an answer going
on to the court that felt different. It was just
(07:18):
along the lines I think. I asked him along the
lines of, you know, how do you get up? I mean,
playing Arthur ash at night? You know, how do you
get up for these matches? Still? And he has you
know what, I don't know. I can't remember exactly, but.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Not the sort of enthusiastic ready, I don't even know myself.
And I was like, oh, yeah, that's weird.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Yeah, it was just I don't know this moment in
time in my life as a commentator and as somebody
who gets to interview these amazing players. I just remember
thinking that felt different, that felt weird. And I don't
think he's won a Slam since that tournament.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Well, I will say, I think something that happens at
all levels of tennis is you sense some vulnerability. You
sense you know, people have auras and energy and certain inevitability,
storylines hanging around them. I mean, the best players. It's
you know, it's impenetrable. They just carry that aura of
like I am here to win, and you see them
(08:13):
do it so often that they and everybody else start
to believe that nothing else could possibly happen in terms
of the outcome. And then, you know, some chinks in
the armor start to appear and you start to say, oh,
that that aura has has faded a little bit. And
now that's certainly the case. I mean again, Novakhchyokovic is
making a semi at a Master's one thousand at age
eleveny billion, so like kudos. I mean, it's not I mean,
these aren't bad showings at all, but at some point,
(08:35):
but it is do you want to get on another plane?
Do you want to leave your kids that are getting older?
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Do you do you? You know, you start thinking, do
I semi finals making? You know two hundred thousand? Yeah,
that's great, fantastic. The guy's got a hundred million plus
dollars in the bank. He doesn't need any more money.
It's for me. It's a matter of you know, at
some point you have to say how much more do
I want to do this? And you just wonder, And
that's why I think maybe the strain open is a
(09:00):
real doable time for him time frame and then just
drop them. I can leave. And also the other thing
is that I want to say is that these other
players know that. Now, that's the difference. Like this qualifier
who's looked up to Novak his whole life, who says
what a pleasure it was and what you know, Oh
my god, Like he was so reverent when he went
(09:22):
to the net and said something. But at some point
you've got to be like, even a guy like that
is like, oh main, I actually on the court thought
I could win. Yeah, those matches you don't usually win,
all right, and Novak doesn't usually lose those types of matters.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I mean, would going back to this cousin display, I
mean they were teammates at the University in Texas, Texa
and m that's a place I have played many times,
College Station and that is a very very good men's program.
But you don't necessarily see a lot of stepping stones
to the ATP Tour. One of them, Frenda Connection is
now ranked twenty eight. Valentin Vasher is ranked forty now
(10:00):
a career high. I want to point out because I
don't know a lot of people know this Arthur. Rinda
Kanesh's mother is named Virginy Paque. Can you think of
anybody else whose last name is Paquet? Chloe Paque? On
the tour, the women's tour, who is their cousin? Also,
this is a there's a third and it's a lady.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
I love you coming with the knowledge.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Listen, there's one thing I'm going to do, and it's
research French tennis players. I realized that Valentin Vashero competes
under the mona Gesque flag. He is a Monica citizen,
butod he was born in France and this family is French.
And whatever the grandparents were doing to birth a bevy
of professional tennis players is hats off Chapeau.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
I guess you would say nothing will compare to the
Malaba sisters. For me, it's still somebody needs to write
that documentary. That's one of the most unbelievable stories. Three girls,
three women inside the top ten, and I believe they
might have even been there at the same time at
one point. Believe that's it's just unbelievble. I mean, of course,
being us and Serena, but you know, but this is
three I love it, like come on, I love it.
(11:01):
I love that anyway. So yes, what an amazing effort
from him. Great job, well done.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Fantastic outcome. I do want to say, so we talked
a little about no Vectroovic. It does, yeah, like a
little bit of a missed opportunity for Medvedev here and listen,
his brain has been scrambled eggs for the better part
of eighteen months. So I don't want to like hang
too many things on this, but zooming out from Medvedev himself,
who I think everyone can agree this is a much
(11:27):
much better looking yeah, Danil Medvedev than what we saw
the summer in DC. Yeah, and the OS Open, where
no racket was safe from him smashing into smithereens or
water bottle or water bottle or bench or bench or whatever.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Coach.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
But I do want to sort of point out, like
I'm not a big rivalry person. I don't care that
much about the hegemony of one or two players at
the top, but it does sort of uh speak to
the idea that like, hey, if Yannick Center and Carlos
Alcarez are defeated, PA injured, retire whatever as was the case,
(12:03):
not to play, choose not to play as was the
case in both counts for this tournament. Like who's stepping
up and filling void there?
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Well, apparently nobody.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Great, Yeah, two obscure cousins from the Texas A and
m Maggie's, which is again great and fun.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
That's like why we love tennis. Go to school. Kids,
go to school.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Oh to school, totally go to school, you know, cam Norry.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
I've said this for years. I'm such a proponent, especially
on the men's tour, to play college tennis, Like why
not get a scholarship? Go you get the most amazing training.
You know, Caitlin, you did it. I did not. I
went straight to the pros. It was very different for me.
But given the opportunity, I would have liked I probably
would have loved to play two or three. It would
have been really good for me to actually play college tennis,
because I kind of waffled around for a few years,
(12:48):
like eighteen, nineteen, twenty twenty one. I mean, I think
I qualified at Wimbledon when I was eighteen or maybe
nineteen or something. But I think I honestly could have
done that and gone to college. That's what Lisa Raymond did.
She went to college for two years, and I think
made the fourth round of Wimbledon at one point still
at college, lost a type like a really unbelievable match
to Jennifer DICAPRIARTI, who was pro. And so there are
(13:10):
people that can do it, you know, Danielle Collins like,
so I just think if you're a little unsure and Navarro,
I mean, if you're a little bit unsure of sort
of like what you're capable of doing, go to school
and you can still play professionally for sure.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
And I would say for especially on the men's side.
You know, if you're playing at Texas Texas and m Florida, Stanford,
these are probably Alloys Illinois, Like there are several of
these programs that are quite elite who spit out pros. Yes,
maybe they don't stay for all four years. USC is
a great program, like, but yeah, you're getting the competition.
(13:45):
Maybe take a year or two. Get the strength training,
get the exactly, get the physique, get the you know.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Get the coaching. To go to a school with a
really good coach, good players. You know, you're going to
get two or three hours of practice every single day.
You're going to get in the gym, you're going to
have your nutrition less. You're gonna have literally a professional
style at college if you go to the right school,
and that can develop your game to be a better pro.
And then when you go in the pros, you you've
played and won a lot of matches and that really helps.
(14:14):
Then you go to the Challenger too, and you're like, Okay,
you're firing away there and you're winning matches, and then
you get into the pros and you can do I mean,
it's just unbelievable. This what this guy. I love it.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
I mean, it's a great it's a great story. And yeah,
let's see what these these many cousins have to have
to do it.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Once I did look at the race to Turin, and
Carlos Akarez has eleven thousand points and Yannick Sinner has
eighty five hundred points. The next closest is Novak Djokovic
at forty five, one hundred and eighty.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Poll they're like lapping every I mean that.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Is and then and then it's Vera forty two eighty,
Taylor Fritz, Ben Shelton, Alex dimonor Lorenzo Mussetti. So there
is a fight still for the last couple of spots.
It looks like those eight that I just said a
problem ble locked in though, because Jack Draper is not
really playing right He's not playing right now, and he
is five hundred points behind the lines. Tommy Paul is
(15:08):
he in the mix there? No, he's not. Tommy. Tommy
hasn't had a great year. I mean, you know, comparative
to the way he played last year, Tommy is not
even close. He's twentieth. He has no chance. It's like
Kolgaruna Rude is eleven, Felix asia Alissimus twenty nine, but
that he is five hundred points, almost five hundred points,
(15:28):
four hundred and fifty points behind Mussetti. So if Massetti
and dem Or not shit the bed and don't win
another round this year, and Felix wins and does something
great like winning an indoor tournament, which he's done before
in the house he likes, then he has I think
that's the only guy that can get into the top
eight now. So so that's they're really firing there, and
(15:50):
that's really important. So I just wanted to add that
before we got onto the.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
I mean, it's kind of related to this idea that
like if there's yeah, I can curlos, then where is
everybody else, and the through is pretty far behind. They're
in the Maldives, the rest of them around the world,
all right under the women.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
On to the women. Okay, so we stand corrected it
in so many ways. Okay, And I'm the first to
say I was wrong, but I'm not. I'm I was
wrong in one sense. But also I still stand behind
sort of the thought process of Coco not going and
playing in Asia, okay, and working on her game and
working on the part because she's only got a certain
(16:28):
amount of time before this rain open. But God, lover,
she goes and wins in Wuhan, and it's just like,
you know, what are you gonna do? And played really well. Look,
I feel like this is the story of Cooker. But
she played Look, I'll be really honest, like her draw
was pretty good. She didn't play against women that are
smacking the ball right. True. The hardest hitter that she
(16:51):
really played was, of course, Paulini hits the ball really
well and really hard, but with a bit of spin,
and Coco's game with that loopy forehand and run the
ball down. And the funny thing is Pauline's beat her
every time this year, So I give her a ton
of credit for getting that win, but other than Jess,
who I's got to say had to be out of steam.
(17:12):
Oh my god, how the hell did Jess Bigola make
the final? Not based on the fact that we know
how well she can play, but what the fuck? I mean,
that girl is on the court for twenty million hours
and vane.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
It was insane and she managed to beat like Aria
Sabalanca that hasn't lost at one.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
I don't think, no ever, no ever, no, I think
it was something crazy like twenty something matches, but also.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Twenty one and zero going into the Wuhan semi final.
She's only won that tournament.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
And she's been Jess like so many times in big matches,
and it's like she gets up five to two, I believe,
in the third and just goes to somewhere else, not Woophan,
the Maldives and the Maldives, and Jess started playing unbelievable
that I guess kind of had that attitude of our
fuck this shit, yeah, cannot lose again, fuck it and
then just started like hitting winners all over the place
(17:59):
in Sabalanne and hit a ball I loved it, like
couldn't make above it. And then Jess saved for the
match and couldn't get her. All of a sudden she
started choking her service, like horrendous. She'll be the first
to admit it. That's why I can say it. And
then you're just like, oh my god, who's going to
win this match. But prior to that though, also Elena Rubakina,
that was a smoking from Sablenka straight said she is
(18:20):
not like getting it done either, and she's trying to
get into the last spots of the WTA final aid
as well in rehad and so that was a that
was not a good That was an easy two set
match in the end from Saballage. And Sabilinka was playing
unbelievable that match. She was serving big, she was crushing
four hands all over the place. It was like look out.
(18:40):
And then all of a sudden, little Jess Bogola just
says no, not today, not today. Not today.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Might have been every other day leading up to this,
but not today. I mean I loved it. So what
was her draw, Jess Bagola?
Speaker 1 (18:52):
I mean she.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Brutal, absolutely brutal. Jess Begoola came into the final list.
Those two have pleaded each other a lot. They played
doubles together. You know, obviously they know each other's games
very very well, and I think, all things considered, just
put up a good fight. But yes, you could clearly
see that after going through sabal Anca, Sineakova, Alexandrova, who's
(19:14):
had a great year, you know, Hailey Baptiste, who she
barely barely got away with eating eight eight six and
the third set tiebreak like she's had. You know, she
she battled. She had every single match going into the
final with three sets. Every single match, I know it
was in some were some were tighter than others, like
the Sineakova match she kind of ran away with, but
(19:36):
the Sabalanca match was brutal third set tiebreak, you know,
Alexanderva really took it to her. Those were three hard,
WoT sets, and yeah, Hailey Baptiste seven six and third,
like she really had no easy road.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
And then she gets to the final and just like
I'm sure she was kind of like and Coco is
the worst kind of player for her to play against. Okay,
why because not one point is going to be easy.
You're gonna buy every point and no matter how well
Jess is hitting the ball, it's coming back and it's
coming back with height on the forehand, it's coming back
with some power on the backhand. It's coming back with
(20:09):
some shitty slice forehands that are going to make her
get down and hit her another make her hit a slice,
whether it be off the back end or the forehand.
Coco is gonna junk you. She's not gonna miss.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
She's gonna hit loop, slice, flat, cheesy, whatever it takets,
she's gonna make you flight, She'll make it.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
She'll bring it to you. I mean, she is the
ultimate at certain times, not all the time. So don't
take this the wrong way people that love Cocoke, because
you know how much I love her. She's the able, ultimate,
winning ugly. She really would be the first to say it.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
I mean, one of the things that was funny, but
in post tournament commentary, she released her video of herself
singing karaoke and celebrating afterwards, and she was like, yeah,
my team tried to tell me not to do this,
but guess what, I'm stubborn, And I think to.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Your point, she's stubborn. She's so stubborn. Hes stubborn in
even playing that thing.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, and then she's stubborn in the way she wins
especial situations where maybe she's got to win ugly, and
I think, you know, list't winning ugly, it is still winning.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
And my look, my thing was okay, and you know this,
I said this. It's the thing about winning ugly, is it.
It's got to be so stressful, Like at some point,
how much is she going to be able to take?
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yeah, you're adrenal glance of like just being like zero, God,
I can't get a serve in the court.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Oh my god, I can't hit my forehand. Ah, it's
not like I'm just having okay, I'm a bit nervous today.
Like Jessica Gula, her biggest issue was always like, oh
my bracket doesn't feel great, and she's kinetically always hitting
her strings and being like I can't feel the ball.
And she's never like I can't hit I know I
can hit a serve or well, there was a period
of time there in the Sabalanca match where she.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Couldn't, but you know what I mean, Traditionally she's not.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
I would hate to walk out on the court and
know that there were two weaknesses that were so glaring
that everybody knew about. And as soon as I missed
one or two of them. I'm like, oh my god,
everybody knows I can't hit my forehand in the court
right now. It's like, how much like Sabalanca's not walking
out there? I mean she was when she was double
folding twenty eight times a match herself and serving under'm
she was like she had anxiety based on her surf. Right,
(22:06):
how many players in the top ten are going, oh
my god, I hope I can hit that shot in
the court today. And that is Coco. There are times
where she was double folding again it was in the
semis or the final or whatever. But no, she just
keeps going. I mean, I don't know. She's built different.
She is built different. I mean I give her tons
(22:27):
of credit. Fuck I mean, I mean, I love it.
I don't know if that's the right thing because at
some point, again in a big match at the major's okay,
because it is a different feeling. Is it going to
hurt her though that she hasn't worked on those things enough.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
I kind of feel this way about Coco all the time,
which is just like she's so good, she's such a fighter,
she's such a great boon to the sport. I can't
fathom why six months haven't been sacrificed at some point
along the way to just shore up the problems. Yeah,
(23:05):
because it can't be fun winning this way. But what
I tell you what today, I guess you know, lifting
the trophy of your head is the ultimate statement.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
So like, what right now, I'll tell you what's not
fun when you're a coaching team and she wins the
tournament says you know what, Fuck you guys, You're not
getting a bonus. Did you want to come.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Here? We were on Well, you know what, I'm keeping
my money because I came because I had to.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Do it on b of you guys. Yeah, that's not.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
That's a really interesting bit of insight.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah, we do have to also mention that Paulini just
she like smokes that was awesome, Like she played out
of her mind. I mean, shiron Tech also was not.
There's two things about shrion Tech and Rebeccna very similar
in the losses that they had just bad errors, just
(24:04):
not making the right shot at the right time. And
I don't know if that's lacking in confidence. I think
that could be the case with maybe Rebekina, but with Eager.
I mean I'm kind of like don't know if she's
in that space of being confident or not. You know,
she won in Korea and then she's been playing a
lot when's Wimbledon, so you kind of think she's kind
(24:24):
of in that like floating purgatory area right now, really
not knowing what she's doing. But you know, like I'll
give you an example. Two break points for Rebekina sable
Anca hit. I mean, because Rebekina can serve you off
the court like no, she's ind and you know, Sablenka
takes two returns and smacks them cross court to rabeck
(24:44):
In's backhand, and I kind have had like an opportunity
to go back cross quarter back through the middle, and
she tried to go down the line twice, bang down
the line, missing in the bottom of the banged down
the line, missing in the bottom of the net again,
And I'm like, that's technically one of the biggest points
of the match. You cannot afford to lose your serve
against sable Anka on one of the on two of the
biggest points in the match, I E. Breakpoint. You chose
(25:05):
to hit the hardest shot and as good as your
back end is and her back end is, who it's
as good as anybody's has ever been. You chose to
try and hit that one down the line, and then
you did it again on another breakpoint, So that, to me,
that's just bad shot selection. And then for Tech, very
similar in a lot of ways, like had opportunities and
(25:26):
just sort of miss them and you just think, oh,
is that really the right shot to hit there? And
then on top of that, Paolini playing unbelievable and Sablanca
playing unbelievable, which is why those matches were straight sets. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
for sure.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I mean for me, the there was.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
No Choco out there when and ugly getting that ball
back in the court. No, like Coco is not going
to try and hit that back and down the line. No,
he's going to take that back cross court.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
D true, And she's just want to speak percentage shut okay,
you you now go down the line. That's right. I
love seeing Paulini surge in this part of the calendar
year and be part of the conversation again, she's your
favorite player. The tour is so strong when she is
playing well, and in years past we have had nothing
(26:07):
but big hitters win in Asia traditionally, and so.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
The fact that big service big hitters, yet you know
it's fast.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
As you said, the Nisimova and Sabilanca and Rabakna game
style is certainly favored in that and instead we have,
you know, some variety which again going into if the
year end tournament finals are to be interesting, and we've
already kind of established that. Besides Yannick Center and Carlos
Ocaas on the men's side, I don't know who else
(26:35):
is going to bring their A game to turn the women.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
It seems like it's way more I.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Can tell you what the final is going to be
there already, Carlos Andiganik. Yeah, Yannick wins in three sets,
Yeah right, yeah, probably Yeah. I think when you look
at the race of the WTA finals, boy oh boy,
is a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
When you look at who is in that section read
the points, I'm curious. So so Sablanca is pretty far
ahead of everybody else. She's actually at ten thousand straight
points twent ten thousand on the nose, not even ten thousand,
one hundred ten ten down number. I think I've ever
seen that, to be honest, because it's very rare. Sean
take eighty three hundred and sixty eight. So they are locked.
(27:18):
Coco Goff locked in at number three, anissimo but at
fifty nine hundred points, so you know those four are locks.
Jess Bagoula is already in as well at fifty one
eighty three, and then there's a fight. Then you have
Maddie Keys at forty four hundred and forty nine points,
Number six Andreva forty three nineteen, so about one hundred
(27:42):
and twenty points behind, which is like the difference between
a quarter and a semi for example, at the next tournament,
now it comes down to winning or maybe a runner
up and a five hundred, and then Pauolini is at
eight at forty one hundred and thirty one points. Now
the big, big thing for Paulini was this week. Her
(28:02):
beating shon Tech and getting to the semis really helped
her because Rebarkina is at thirty nine thirteen, Okay, so
she is about one hundred let's see one hundred and
thirty about she's about two hundred points behind Pauolini. Now,
so that's a massive difference, right because when you so,
she's literally the only one that can pass Paolini. Alexandrova
(28:26):
is at thirty one fifty eight, so she is a
thousand points behind Paulini, so there's no chance of her
catching The only one that can catch Paolini is a Rebarkina.
And I believe there is a bunch of indoor tournaments.
So look, if Rabarkin is going to jump over Paulini,
it's certainly possible playing indoors in Europe. But that is
the only one. And so they jumped over Paulini, jumped
(28:49):
over Rebarkina for the number eight spot in the WTA
finals race in this tournament. So that's how important that
tournament was for Pauolini. And if Paulini had beaten Coco Oh,
that would have helped her mandus amount. But having said that,
she beats Riantech and now she's she's in the WTA
finals and rebark In it is outside of the top eight.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
It's it's all going to come down to the next
three weeks. In Asia. Yep, they don't go. The women
don't go to Europe.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
The men do.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
But they're in China, Japan, Hong Kong.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
And I got to tell you, Caitlin, I have been
there for this situation. I have been there for this
situation as a player in my own right, chasing points,
and I've been there as a coach with a player
who was chasing points, and it is so stressful. Sure,
it is so stressful and warrant profound, Yeah, of course,
and you're like, don't worry about what parl Like if
(29:40):
you're a rebek in this coach, or if you're a
poliness coach, you're like, don't worry about what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
You just you go and win the tournament. That's If
you win the tournament, you're going to be in and
you're going to be fine.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
You're like, yeah, And then all of a sudden, you're like,
you win one match and all you're doing is looking
at the scoreboard. Are they winning? Are they winning? Are
they winning? Did they lose? Did they lose? Because you like,
at this point, at this time of the year, you
have a shit about winning the tournament. You're just like,
I just want to get into you stuff. Let me
get in finals, you know. So yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
So it reminds me of October baseball, where it's like,
not enough for your team to win, the other teams
have to lose.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
You got to have a good record to get into
the postseason. I want to take a.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Pretty hard pivot out of the Asia Swing to talk
a little bit about two folks we've talked at length
about on the podcast, and you don't know at all
what I'm going to talk about. So I'm excited for
you to see your face.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
I love when you do this to me.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Yeah, So as you run, need a drum roll, get
into drubble. So as you know, Nick Curios has a podcast. Yes,
Nipios has been talking to a lot of folks on
his podcast.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
God I'm so scared now.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
And Nick Curios has, uh, you know, taking shots. It's
a lot easier for him to take those shots when
he's not playing tennis and doesn't have to back anything
up on the tennis court. And over the weekend he
took a bit of a shot at Andy Murray, Oh,
which you know, geez, here we go yikes, And you know,
I don't want to say it is the worst, but
(31:02):
he was basically like, we used to be friends. We're
not friends anymore. I guess, and these are his words.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
I guess.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
He's just like a colleague. I mean, we used to
be closer. He was one of the people who's very
supportive of me, but now we don't talk. I wanted
him on my podcast and he acted too important. There's
your truth, bro find some time.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Well, maybe Andy doesn't want to come on your podcast.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
It's pretty clear any Marie does not want to come
on your And.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
I think one of the reasons why I would venture
to say is that Andy doesn't want to have any
controversial shit out there, and he probably feels like it's
going to be a bit of a gotcha. Sure right,
And that's what you have to know when you do
podcasts or when you do especially long form interviews, which
a long form interview of people out there means it's long. Okay,
(31:49):
it's like thirty minutes, forty minutes an hour.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Yeah, you're not doing You're not doing at the desk
at Tennis Channel after you wint to matchine. You're unraveling
some big themes.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
You're going into some moment getting told in our ear
two minutes maximum, get him off the court. It's not
going to This is a different.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Situation I would if I were Andy Murray also hadly
go on Andy Raddick's podcast.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Andy Raddick podcast is great. Andy Raddick, I'm sure respects him,
and Andy, if you want to come on mine and.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Now, sure, yeah, come on, And I'm sure Andy Murray
would have a great time on a lot of the
other really excellent tennis podcasts. I'm not sure that I
would choose to go on Nick Curious podcast, knowing how
controversial Nick has become in the last couple of years.
And yeah, it kind of the bedmeats who's kept with
you know, the Andrew Tears of the World and other folks.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Did he say anything, did he say anything controversial about
Andy over the last couple of years.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
He's not, He's not ingratiated himself to a lot of
these players.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
I think the arey don't necessarily trust.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
That he's gonna do right by him, do right by
him necessarily. And and now I think if there's stipulation's
right to say, Okay, I'm happy to come on it,
but I don't want to. I don't want you asking
me about this, and I don't want you to ask
me about or or I have full control over what
goes out, But then you don't know, right, shit gets leaked,
stuff gets said, somebody will say something.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
This is what he said on the pod. We didn't
release it.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
I mean, just yeah, it's if I were any Murray,
I would hang out with my kids and my wife,
and UH play golf, play golf and be funny because
that's what he's doing on my own terms and uh
playing a lot of golf.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Keep it moving.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
So but it is really funny to sort of Nick's
uh sort of claims it relevance seemed to be the
further away we get from him playing professional tennis, a
little bit more desperate.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
I don't know, the whole thing is here. He's going
to be in New York, Yeah, being in the Garden Cup,
I believe December eighth. Yeah, the last one wasn't very good.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
So maybe this I mean, you know, look, I got
to tell you, you know when I when I look
at it as an overall picture, I just it's he
I feel like.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
And Nick will never agree. Nick will never admit this,
and maybe we get him on this podcast and ask
him this question. Long for an interview with Renee Stabbs.
But I just feel like in twenty years time, he's
going to look back on his career and he's going
to regret a lot of things. And if if if
if if it's exactly right, if if it doesn't exist,
(34:08):
like if does not exist?
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Put in the work, you didn't you got the results
who didn't you can always you know, there's honor and
leaving it all out there and come, but there's not
a lot of honor.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
And you know, look, look he got he got injuries.
There's no question that he had. You know, it was
a terrible risk injury. And someone who like someone who
knows what that feels like. I had a risk injury
and was out for nine months and it really derailed
my singles career, team dominic, team, bench del Potro. I
think it's the worst, for sure, the worst injury a
tennis player can have. If you can't hit the tennis ball,
(34:39):
you can't play tennis. You know, of course every injury
is bad, but you know, I would argue to say
that a risk injury is the worst injury you can
have as a tennis player. But you know, if you
don't put the work in enough week in and week
out and you sustain it like a Novak Djokovic has done,
and like Rufa did, and Roger and you know, Serena
and all these people. The reason why they were great
(34:59):
is because they work hard every single day and they
didn't take a day off. And greatness comes with the
most incredible work ethic and it's really hard. It's really
hard mentally to be out there on the tour for
twenty plus years, like you know, the greats of the
game have done. It's mentally draining. It's why these players
(35:20):
are pulling out left and rights, why we've been asking
about changing the calendar and tennis has changed. Like I
literally sit and watch some of these matches, Caitlin, and
I'm like, these points are going for like thirty forty
seconds minimally, you know, we're talking like some of these
points are going for like a minute.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
If you watch old YouTube videos, it's so comical.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yeah, how different. Yeah, and it's not the faults of
thirty forty years ago.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
And there's a lot to love about the old day
of playing, but clearly, but it's a different game, this
different game overall. Point is absolutely correct, which.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Is just saw a guy who wasn't even in qualifying
beat the greatest player of all time and win a
Master's one thousand and he played college. Yes, Like the
level is of all the players has gotten so much better,
and these players are so good. I mean I was
watching the match in particular against Novak, even in the
(36:13):
second set, I mean, it was incredible points and the final,
like they were battling like twenty thirty forty ball rallies.
Even when I was watching the women's like Jessica Pagoula
and sable Anca and like Coco and I mean, they
were playing like fifty ball rallies. It was insane and
barely breathing. Like literally, there was one.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Point that Sabalaninka try to hit a twin out was
the dumber shot she could ever hit and actually didn't
end up costing her in that particular.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
I respect that particular, but I was like, what the
hell is that? But like just played like a forty
ball rally and was barely breathing. I'm like, these players
are so fit. They put in so much hard work.
So if you want to be great, if you wanted
to be great, Nick Carros, you had to put in
the work week in and week out for years and
years and years, and you build layers of fitness and
(37:00):
build layers of ability to have a hang in there
in the big moments. And you were you great to
beat Roger Rafa and Novak. And there are the players
that can say that, no, yeah, wait to go unbelievable room.
But man I swear in twenty years time, he's gonna
look back and go, you won't ever admit it in public. Yeah,
(37:20):
I don't think, Yeah, but I think to himself in
the mirror. And I heard this on my favorite podcast
of all time right now is Amy Pollack. Good hang,
but agreed to good hand. Kristen Wigg said, you know
what I used to do, look at myself in the mirror.
And you look at yourself in the mirror and tell
yourself because you can't lie to yourself, right. And so
she would like look in the mirror and like say
(37:41):
the things that she needed to say to herself. And
they can posit whatever eations or you got to get
your sit together. You got to stop thinking because you
cannot lie to yourself in the mirror, right. And so
Nick needed to look at himself in the mirror and
be like, what could I be doing better? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Or or or let me address what actually this is,
which is probably a little bit of fear.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Yeah. Well you know, listen, go back on the podcast
that I've talked. We've talked about this at length. So
much of it came from his childhood. I think so
much of it came from him being bullied as a kid, sure,
growing up at Australia as a you know, a person
of color in a very country sort of town. Inch
in Canberra. It's our capital, but it's you know, it's
not like Sydney or Melbourne. And I think he was
(38:23):
bullied to as a kid, and I think that really
made a difference in his life to how he thought
about things. So I don't know. I think he's in
unbelievable case study for what could have been and he
is the ultimate if if if if if if.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Let's end on a positive note, which is we are
going to be making some changes at the POD. I
think we're going to try to be filming these and
we're going to be doing some live events. Yeah, more
to come on that front. Will have some very exciting announcements,
especially for people who live or travel to New York often,
because that is obviously we're we're beast. What do you
(38:57):
want to hear from us? What do you want to
see from us? What should we talk about? Give us
some good end of the year topics, especially before Renee
heads down south for Australia, and we'll try to finish
the year with a bang, because it's been a really
good one. We've had amazing it's been a bang every year.
We're different Grand Slam champions on the women's side, crazy
amazing Grand Slam champion and not like random, no great
(39:18):
keys after spending two decades on the tour basically and
getting her made in the Slam in the most deserved fashion,
unbelievable eagish fiantec her least favorite surface. Nobody said she
could even make it basically like a final, much less
win one wins Wimbledon. We've got the French Hoko winning
the French and oldest, which you know, it just everything
(39:39):
was amazing. And then on the men's side we have,
you know, really a dialogue of two people, and the
tournaments have been unbelievably good. And you know, obviously as
tennis always provides us with amazing storylines, we've had those
in spades. So drop us a line. You know, Renee's
on Twitter, were on Instagram to give us some messages.
Let us know and we'll be back in your ear
(40:00):
to start looking towards the very last chapter of the
year and also end.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
On a how note, And you know what I think
would be fun for everyone out there, because the USTA
implemented that mixed doubles, new thing, and then the strain
opens to do in their one point for a million dollars.
You should get down there, Caitlin, you have no win. Ugly,
get that serve and volley.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
It makes you think I'm gonna win, Ugly, slide that forehand,
and my whole thing is losing.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Pretty like, how fun is that? For a million dollars.
Alcoraz has already said he's doing it. I mean, listen,
any player that's a good, decent player could win a
point against a great player if they get lucky right.
You could hit shank a ball, you could like hit
a neck chord, like it's possible. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
I always said, if I were ever to play one
of the game's great it's like a serena. I'm just
going to try to to tree. You know what I
would do. I'm not trying to get in a rally.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
I'm going to give you all a little hint out there.
This is what you should do if you're an amateur player.
Serve under arm, Seriously, serve under armed. Just chuck it in. Sure,
they had to have to run forward, they're gonna have
to eat it, and you might hit a passing shot.
A lot. It's possible. So anyway, my point in saying
this is that it's interesting that all the majors are
(41:06):
starting to sort of try and one up each other
in these new different aspects of tennis. I like it.
I think it's fun. I don't think Wimbledon's ever going
to do anything like that, but you know what, that's
kind of the unique thing. Yeah, but at the same time,
Wimbledon need to start really thinking about how they're going
to grow, right because these other tournaments are making so
much money now trying to do these new implementations of
(41:27):
three weeks. I have a whole big idea, but I'll
save another praccast. Oh should we save that on for
next week?
Speaker 2 (41:31):
I mean, maybe it's the most glaringly off topic off
season idea. But I don't think Wimbledon should embrace not
their tradition, which is.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Tell you what they should do. Everyone should have to
serve in volley one time in their service game.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Oh wow, one out of every serv and but that's
a great idea. Yeah, mandatory servant.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Play your tournament. Yeah, play one tournament, first to six games.
You have to serve and volley one time at least
one time. One time serve on your service game. I
just think they should expand the grass season and make
it a whole thing. That's what I think. Yeah, well,
you and I love the love the grass, so do
best are not against that best service? Service?
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Is that technically the same speed every week? So would
Zara be happy? Yeah, no, he'd be complaining as he
always does. Yeah, just give him something to complain about anyway.
All right, all right, guys, thanks so much. We're off
to dinner here in New York, and thanks joining us
this week.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
To you next week, you next week, babe,
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