November 19, 2025 • 45 mins
We recap the (predictably, but satisfying) ATP Tour Finals, discuss the Gazprom Open, bid farewell to Chris Eubanks and debate the justifiable entry into the International Tennis Hall of Fame of the GOAT (in our house, her name is Mary Carillo) as well as some guy named Roger Federer. Plus: who got snubbed and why?
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay, let's try that again. Hello, all right, one, two, three,
seems to be working.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
This up, you guys. I know there's people out there
probably listening anyway. Is it working, Yeah, it's working. Okay,
phones off? Please, jeez, that's probably your flat, it's not.
Oh hi, everybody, Welcome to the Renee sub Tennis Podcast. Caitlin.
(00:29):
I think people like al shenanigans before I actually get serious, like,
you guys should see the way we have to set up.
Do they this podcast?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
No? I don't think they like hearing about the labor
that goes into it. They just want this to seamlessly
appear in their feet.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Well, I hope that everybody appreciates that we do sound
better these days.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
It's true. I was having a conversation with Subner, frequent
listener who said, yeah, some of those episodes were real rough,
and I had to some Yeah, you know, it's all uh,
it's all the upswing. Everybody appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
You know what I appreciate.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
I think I've actually just learned how to do the
ad markers correctly. For the first time. I have been
placing them using a different system.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Yeah, you know, yeah, we apologize for that because we
did get a couple of people writing us on Twitter
and they were like, you know, and I would listen
to the I do listen to the podcast eventually myself,
just because I like to make sure it all goes smoothly.
And then I think, what am I going to get
sued for or something like that. But overall I do
listen to it, and I'm like, what the hell, I'm
in the middle of the word and or a santence
and boom we go straight to.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
This because the clock on the publishing software and the
clock on the timeline do not align. Why they don't align,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
So I want everybody out there to know that is
not my forte at all.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
It should be made so it's actually the Billiam rests here.
Oh good, finally, well you mean finally I can accountability for.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Finally, finally I can hear something.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
You're both the talent and uh, the person not responsible.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
For a Definitely, I would like everybody out there to
know that we do appreciate the fact that you have
stuck with us through the it and the bad.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Thanks. One thing on the note of the good is
I heard from a lot of people about the last
two episodes in particular, we really hit some nerves. I
think we talked about Battle of the Sexes. We talked
about whether Justin Hanna's back in was better or prettier
than the stan Verrinca's. I mostly heard from people who
affirmed my worldview. Oh my god, sure I ever heard
from people who affirmed your world do you We'll have
(02:21):
to have a neutral third party on maybe sometime soon
to mediate You.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Know who we're going to ask because she'll give it
to us because she does not have a one handed
back in. Is Petko when she comes back into New York,
and she will be back on the pot at some point,
We're going to ask her this question with her not
knowing unless she listens to the pod every time, and
she does, but sometimes she gets a bit behind.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah, maybe she hasn't heard it so she can win.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Well, we're going to ask her who she thinks, and
then we'll ask somebody with a great one handed back in. Anyway,
let's before we dive into a lot. We've got a
lot to talk about today. But Janick Sinner, Carlis Agarez,
I know it finished a few days ago. I'm'm sorry
we didn't get to you sooner, but Caitlin and I
get a little bit busy or out of town with
each other.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
We were both out of town. Actually we have incredibly
fun things to report. Yes, and also I would feel
worse about missing the day after if the exact thing
that I knew was going to happen didn't happen. So
it's like, okay, well, yep, GrlA Zakarez versus NX Center
in the final, with the NX centner winning comfortably in
two sets.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, it was uh look.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
I mean credit to them. I'm not saying it was bad.
It's just I didn't need to be on top of it.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
No, look, it was a fabulous match for about a set.
It was pretty good for two sets. But the standard
of tennis that these guys are playing now is it's
just on another level.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
It's true. Somebody was posting just even as recently as
twenty seventeen. One of the finals sort of highlight selections
from the Australian Open, which famously Router Fetter came back
and beat Rafa and like the pace, the movement, the
ball variety was. I remember at the time thinking wow,
tennis cannot get better than and then like it looks
(03:58):
like they're playing in slow motion. And this is like
literally less than ten years ago. Yeah, and so it's
just crazy to me how much more optimized the game
has gotten. And you know, not to take anything away
from anybody who played in a different era, it's just
the game keeps getting better. These guys keep getting fitter,
they keep getting bolder, And yeah, we saw the natural
sort of conclusion that I think a lot of us expected,
(04:18):
which was the two best players in the field by
several orders of magnitude faced off and the guy who
had a little bit more of a hot streak and
who had a better record on that surface prevented.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yeah, he's on an incredible winning streak indoors. It's really remarkable.
But his game is so suited to indoors. He can
just wallop the ball, just wallop the ball. And I'm
going to say and make a statement that I think
Darren Kle will be back next year because look at
that does get rid of him.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Can we just call him and just ask him to
confirm or deny so we don't have to have a
running dialogue about that.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I'll tell you what when and if he decides to
announce this finally and we get the aoka. I will
make him come on this podcast, or I will he.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Was a great when he was on this podcast before.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I will make him come on the podcast, or I
will divulge things about him weekly. Oh, Darren a threat,
You're unnoticed.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
He's told the funniest story about how his wife desperately
wanted him to coach merits Haf. It's so funny, and
instead he chose undo agacy for many reasons, but not
least which was the fact that Maretzaffen was sex on skates.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Financially, it was a very good decision and.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Better decision bring up for coach watch. Though. While we're
talking about that, you tweeted to Stephano saits.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Bass I said, Hi, are me he should? He should?
Speaker 1 (05:32):
He could?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
It was funny though, I mean I sort of did
it as a bit of a joke, and yet, knowing
his thoughts on women, I don't think he's going to
have a female coach.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
I don't think he's particularly sexist.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
He's a few dodgy stuff on.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
I think mostly Twitter persona is cut and pieced.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
All right, Well we'll soon find out, won't we. Yeah,
I'm putting it out there I am available, and I
am I'm available. But listen back to the match. It
was unbelievable quality. Nyanik was just a little bit better
on a couple of big occasions. I think one of
the things that Carlos did not do well is he
missed a couple of volleys that he normally would make
(06:10):
on big shots on big points. I think it's one
area as good a olley as he is. I actually
think it's an area that he can get better at.
I do not like his chopping motion on his volleys,
and people are going to be like, what, So just
trust me when I tell you one thing I can
critique any player on is how to hit a volley.
My volleys were very good. It's what the only thing
(06:31):
I could definitely rely on under pressure. But he gets
to chop choppy on his volley. So Carlos, friend, give
me a call. I'll help you with those. He just
drops his head of the racket too much on particularly
his forehand volley. But you know I'm picking at straws.
I mean, this guy's so good, So don't get at
me and be like, I can't believe you're trying to
(06:54):
tell Carlos Alcahaz how to play tennis.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
But I think one of the things that's so great
about both of them is that they are constantly improving
and constantly open to searing from their coaches. Obviously, because
every time they play, one of them has leapfrogged the
other in terms of skill sets. And so somebody was
joking around, like, you know, lol, the jokes on Yannick,
because this is only going to make the Carlos Alcaaz
(07:16):
that shows up in Melbourne in a month and a
half like that much better, which is pray it's not
on non credible like that is possible, quite possible and
probably likely. Oh yeah, I'm going to learn and improve
from this one match, which is crazy to me, the
metabolism of ways that these guys are getting better.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, no, they've spoken about it. I mean, the reason
why they're so good is that they know they have
to be that good to beat each other, and they
have set the bar for each other all the other players.
And I've listened to a couple of other podcasts and
some people you know, said, well, they're going to make
the players below them better. And I don't see the
players below them reaching that.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
I don't either see that. I don't either, but I
will extend and maybe I'm biased, Well I definitely am biased,
but I will extend a little Felix. Yes, I will
extend a little bit of optimism, because this Felix that
we have seen towards the end of the season, especially
at the tour finals, to make the Semis and make
a very very strong run, is looser, and I think
maybe they will never rach that gap. Like it's hard
(08:14):
to imagine right now that the way that the Slams
went this year, splitting between Carlos and Yanik, it's hard
enough to imagine that that happens again next year.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Maybe it happening for the next five years.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
But I do think there could and should be a
few players below them in the chase, who get inspired,
who get better, who get more comfortable, And I definitely
think from a comfort perspective. Al KaAZ has played, I mean,
Felix Aujelia Seam has played with a swagger and a
looseness that we haven't seen. He's not loose, I still
(08:49):
describe it.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
The issue with Felix is he has to do it
outside right. And this is the thing that you know,
look a couple of years ago when he won that
in the fond indoors, It's like, yes, and I again,
I don't at me. I'm not comparing myself, but I
know when I went indoors, I was like, my confidence
level went up ten to fifteen percent every time I
(09:11):
stepped on an indoor court.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
I was like, even in singles, I was like, I
can beat these players indoors on a quickish court, no variables.
I'm going to come in, I'm going to be aggressive,
like I just felt ten to twenty percent better.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah. And it's interesting because there are players like I'm
thinking of, like Alicia Parks for example, We're like, oh,
well that player really likes playing on an indoor are
like it, Suso game suits your game. She's got that
big serve.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
It's even bigger, and your anxiety level is less because
you know you're going to be if you played, yes,
you're going to be the better player. And that's how
Yannick is. The difference is that Yanni can play at
any court because he has no weaknesses. The guy has
no weaknesses. It's the same with Carlos.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
He's a little boring.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
He's a little boring. He doesn't have any weaknesses. No,
but you know, he implemented, He's implemented this year a
fourhand drop shot, like there was a massive point. He
got lucky on the break point, he hit a shank return.
Then he hit a huge toppy fourhand and got Carlos
off the court. And he chose to hit a slice,
fullhand drop shot that won the point. And that would
have done that two years ago.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Not only would he have not many years ago, but
I think that's a way in which he learns from
Carlos exactly. Like that's to me the coolest part of this.
And I think, you know, talking about Pecko, one of
my favorite essays that she ever wrote for Racket was
talking about rivalries and the way that truly truly both
in the art world, which was her jumping off point
froming around Jackson Pollock and her.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
And if you guys haven't read that, get yourself.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
It's great. We should make it available maybe for the holidays. Yeah,
it's a good one. If you subscribe, you get access
to the back catalog, but if you don't, it's I
believe an issue number three or four. And she talked
about how that same artist rivalry informed and uh, sort
of paralleled her own with her countrywoman Angie Kerber, who
(10:54):
a friendly rivalry that is really truly opening up doors
and possibilities. In the case of Yennick and Carlos, like
really adding dimensionality to the way that they play. It's
exciting and you're right, like nobody really is going to
catch them. But I do hope that there's a little
bit of a tailwind for the other folks in the
top echelon. Everyone was said top ten or top eight,
(11:15):
which is obviously who should up to play in Turin
last week, but like just this, I hope that there's
the possibilities have been illuminated more thoroughly so that somebody
like Taylor Fritz, who's probably always going to be limited
a little bit by his lack of athleticism or.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Well he's lack of athleticism, but also I've spoken about
as at nauseum is his inability to play inside the
service line. He's just not a good volleyer. He picks
the wrong shots to come in on. He just it's
it's a shame because I think if he elevated that
part of his game, he might be able to not always,
but I think he could beat one of these guys
(11:50):
in a big match.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
He reminds me a little bit of Andy Murray in
that way where it's like Andy got dimensionality to his
game because he had to, yeah, and he went from
being kind of a retrievable style hard basseliner to somebody
who could really you know, and Andy was willing to
attack the angles of the court, and Andy knew that,
and he knew and Andy didn't really have a lot
of weaknesses either, and that the thing his second serve
(12:12):
was a bit shite kind of sat there. But other
than that, and speaking of second serves, I think one
of the things that Carlos will be looking out for
if he does play against Yanick in the next match
is that Yanick was taking a lot of chances on
his second serve. And there was some huge points in
that match where Yannick went for the second serve and
instead of just sort of hitting the you know, that
sort of ninety mile an hour kickserve, he was going
(12:34):
like one hundred miles.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
An hour hard and flatter, and it was it was
pushing Carlos back off of the baseline, and it was
creating errors off of the return, and it was also
keeping him not in the driver's seat. Yanick was in
the driver's seat with his serve first and second serve.
And I think he learned a big lesson from the
losses that he had was that he had to take
(12:56):
a few more chances. And he did that, and that
was the difference makeud his second serve or his serve
in general. And that's again, Caitlin, that you what you
can do indoors, you know and get I know, I
bring it back to my I don't usually do this,
but I do bring it back to myself in this situation.
I went for more on my second serve indoors as well,
because technically I had a good serve and he has technically,
(13:17):
Yannick a very good serve, so he can afford to
go for a little bit more indoors because there's no win,
there's no sun, you can take a few more chances
because you know you're ultimately probably going to make it
more than you're going to miss. So outdoors with the wind,
with the sun, you got to be a little bit careful.
The wind could take it a little bit further than
you wanted to or whatever. But indoors, you know exactly
(13:41):
what you need to do to get it to a spot.
And his serve is so good that he knows that
he can take those chances so he can have a done.
And look, you know, when he lost the French Open
this year, he served for the match and he did
not serve a good game. And I'm sure that that
just can bothers him so much that he didn't serve
that totament out. I don't think it bothers him that
he didn't. The game before when he was up love forty,
(14:02):
he played a pretty good game. He missed that one
fourhand off a bit of a dodgy bounce, which I've
spoken about. When he turned around and looked at the
Carlos crew, and I could tell his anxiety went up,
but it was more on the racket. When he served
for it, he did not serve a good game. So
I think the difference when he's won matches. Same at Wimbledon,
he went for the second serve and he utilized the
speed of that grass court, and he did it again
(14:22):
in the finals here. And look, there's no question that
Carlos was a little bit injured. Yeah, clearly he's pulled
out of Davis Cup, which you know some people were
probably like, well, it's not a surprise, I'm not shocked. Well,
the Spanish team have not won the Davis Cup since
I believe twenty nineteen, and Carlos was not a part
of that team. He's the new generation of Spanish players,
and I know that he's desperate to win a Davis
(14:45):
Cup because it is a notch in your belt to
say that you led your team to a Davis Cup.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Or super with the country that has such a proud
tradition of and team competition.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
The last time they won it was of course, I
think Rafa went eight to zero in his singles and doubles,
and Carlos he wants to have that. He wants to
have that legacy as well with Spanish tennis. So I
know that he went there to go and try and
win it. So he obviously has an injury. He pulled
out with that leg injury, so he was clearly injured
a little bit in the final. But having said that,
I think that Yannick, even if Carlos was probably one
(15:14):
hundred percent, probably wins that match just based on the
surface and the way he plays indoors. But hey, overall,
what an amazing year for the two of them. Carlos
finishes number one in the world. Yannick wins two majors.
Carlos wins two majors. Yanick has match points to win,
you know, potentially a third major. I know you hate
the sort of rivalry thing, but from a pure standpoint
(15:37):
of a viewer and a tennis fan and a tennis
purist like I am, these two are just I mean,
it's just so exciting, and I think the other guys
behind them really need to push the envelope a lot.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Well, let's talk about that, likely become close to them.
Do you think coming out of the Tour finals there
are any other players besides the two of them who
have some wind in their sales looking at what a
twenty No, I don't. Again, I don't really want to
sort of talk majors wise, because it's hard to imagine
anybody but them, barring any sort of serious injury or
(16:11):
series upset, doesn't exactly have one.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I have one at the straight and open anybody Novak
I think Novak can I do? And I said it
over and over. I do think that Novak is setting
his sights. I don't think he cared about the ATV finals.
Clearly he didn't play it. I think he's going to
put all this time and effort into busting his ass
one last.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Time to win down in Australia.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
I think he's the only one that can rock the
you know, the cherry cart for Yannick and for Carlos.
Carlos has never made the finals there. Yeah, I mean, look,
Novak crushed him down there last year. There was one
set that was really good, but overall Novak was a
better player. So I think Novak goes in there going
I know I can potentially get to a semim final there,
(16:56):
and I know I have maybe one more last grasp.
I don't think he'd beat as someone like Yanick on
that court. I think Yanick is just too good on
that court anymore. But it might be the one place
that Novak can you know.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
So you never know, I mean, that's where you play
the matches might not make it.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
This also injuries, I mean, an injury can happen to
a player, and you know, there's been a couple of
players that have slipped through and won a Grand Slam
because the top players got injured.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Who else besides Novak comes out of twenty twenty five
with some pep in their step.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
On the men's side, I think that Felix has an
opportunity to maybe reach a major semi in Australia. I
don't know. I mean Fonseca. You hope that he can,
like you know, find his rhythm and start having more
of a continuity to his results. Or I don't see
(17:50):
anybody else Mussetti on the clay. Maybe Musseti on the
clay as possible, certainly, but I don't see anybody else
breaking through next year. I hope we do. Look, don't
get me wrong, I really do.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
I would love to see Jack Streeper back and healthy.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Jack is certainly a potential if he's healthy and back
playing at the austra and Open. It's a good court
for him. It's very hot down there though, and he's
not exactly the best in the heat, but neither was
Novak and he won the tournament ten times. So I
remember Novactor would just be dying in the Australian heat,
but he figured out a way with his metabolism and
his you know what, he was putting in his body
(18:24):
to get him to be better in the heat.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
A lot of hugs also famously doing a lot of hugging.
He had a guru about hugs.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yes, maybe you need to get some hugs in.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Yeah, I'll hug Jack Chaper while we're.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Talking about the guys before we get to more things
that interesting. John Wortheim also spoke about it on the
Socials about some of these Russian players playing in this
gaz Prom event exhibition.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
I love tennis because you Renee Stubbs, a graduate of
the Australian Institute of Sport, are now talking about the
oligarch era, Russian pre Soviet breakup, financial distribution of resources.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Listen, I went to Russia when it was Russia, when
it was a Usshah.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
That's crazy.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
How old I am?
Speaker 1 (19:06):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I went there at eighteen in the Hotel Russia. It
was the biggest hotel I've ever stayed. And there was
an east, west, north, and south side of the hotel.
It was so big we weren't allowed to leave the hotel.
Sure it was I it was it was something else.
It was like, you can't leave the hotel. You go too.
I'm good, I don't go back to the hotel. It's like,
(19:28):
do you see me walking out of here? And then
like a couple of years later when they opened up
the US sign and became Russia. I remember being there
with Lisa Raymond and we used to walk every day.
We'd go to this American diner. We'd find this diner.
I can't remember the name of it, but it was
a diner and we were like, it was like, oh,
it was like the Mecca. We're like, oh my god.
(19:48):
We found like we'd have like tuna melts and like rubens.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
You just weren't drinking borshed by the gallon. Oh.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
We were going and finding the most disgusting American food
we could find, and we loved every second of it.
And it was like, as you know, I mean, I've
I should write a book, but anyway I.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Read a book, you need a ghost writer. I volunteer.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
I've already told you that you can write my book. Okay, great, anyway,
So what do you think about that?
Speaker 1 (20:11):
So situation more context. The Gazprom, which was obviously is
a state run Putin affiliated financier actually of a lot
of the bombings that are going on in Ukraine, has
put on an exhibition invited a number of top players
around the world, and many of the Russians are playing it,
including Medvedev, Karen Katchanov, Andrey Rublev. I believe is not
(20:36):
playing is not playing it, Podopova, I'm gonna get some
of the women's names wrong, but yeah, there's a there's
a there's some non Russians too. I think some of
the suburban All the women didn't surprise me at all. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Sure, they've all been very open about their love of
their country into this trying time. But I'm little surprised
at Medvedev, who apparently was invited last year and said no,
I said no. I'm a little surprised with Karen Hutchanoff,
to be honest as well.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Karen Kushenov is as far as I know, and my
Russian knowledge is not the most in depth, but not Chinese.
But I believe Karen Kashenov is from a minority group.
That is, I'm not sure what their relationship with the
majority government. You remember had the Saffins and Stephena were Tatars.
(21:30):
I think Katschenov is from an ethnic minority group.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Yes, I do believe.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
I don't know where that ethnic minority group sits with
regards to I think Kremlin a.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Little opposite to the Kremlin. I believe so I'm a
little surprised. Anyway, it was just a little bit shocking.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I don't see this as being terribly different from any
other exo with prize money. I mean, I realized that
this is.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Like saying six kings, for example, or Saudi.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yeah, I don't see this. These are private contractors, which
was John Wortham's point, and they're going where the bag is. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
John John was not happy about it either. So anyway, I.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Just I don't know, I don't I mean, I'm not
trying to give anybody an out. I don't know Medvedev's
I'm not in politics, but I think because he lives
in France most of the time, he speaks a fluent
French and he's i think officially a citizen of Monaca. Yes,
I don't think he spends a ton of time.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
It's a bit a bit it was yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway,
that's that's my comments on it.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
You really like, you really came in, came in hot,
and I just went out like a lamb. I like,
I want to talk about Gazprom, I want to talk
about the Grimlin. I want to talk about Actually, You're like,
I don't.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Know geopolitically, you just have a better understanding of sort
of like those conversations. That's why I ask you. You
asked me tennis. I asked you politics. Yeah, of politics,
and the last thing you want to talk about in
your life is politics, which cracks me up.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Political journalists. Three presidential campaigns under my belt and not
one more for the rest of my life. I can
tell you that much, assuming we still have a presidency
in a couple of years.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Chris U.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Banks announced his refinement. What a gym.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah, lovely guy. Fantastic year that he had, was it
last year?
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Three years ago? Three?
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Yeah, two seasons ago.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
He one hand, backhand, South Atlanta native South Fulton Tennis
Center will represent one hander Georgia tech, yellow jacket, all
around stand up guy, phenomenal commentator, and a grass court specialist,
which I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
I last court. I would call him a fast court specialist.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
I would love to ask him if he anticipated his
best successes and titles coming on grass. Grass.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Yes, I can answer that question. But as a kid
growing up in with the merchant light sprinkled listen, I
would say my favorite and best surface was grass or
a fast indoor court. And I didn't grow up on
grass I mean, even though I was like, yeah, Australie
and of course you played on grass, I'm like, yeah,
we played on grass like once a year. Maybe we
(24:15):
were playing on synthetic grass and hard court and shitty
do it?
Speaker 1 (24:20):
I would weader and we should ask him, and I'm
sure he would do the pod. He's a lovely person, yea,
And yeah, Chris, come up. He's now doing as he
very very much deserves to be doing a little bit
of a victory lap. I hope he stays involved in
tennis and on our cover excellent at.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
It, but he'll be commentating down I uh.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
I have a suspicion he probably didn't play on grass
until at the very earliest, maybe in an international junior
tournament here there, like maybe he got invited to US
Junior Wimbledon or US or but I kind of doubt it.
I think he probably didn't play on grass until he
got to post pros. Anyway, I'm not trying to make
this his career all about grass, but he is. He
(24:59):
was exciting to who's fun to watch, and more than
anything else, he assumes like a universally beloved, thoughtful, kind looking.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Great guy, great guy of ten great commentator, great knowledge,
great and you know what the thing about Chris is,
and I can tell you this with working with him.
He researches and he does the work, and he does
the he does the he does the little things that
some other people don't when it comes to commentary and
comes to even if you if you get him for
(25:29):
an interview, he'll make sure that he's If you say, oh, Chris,
we want to talk about X, you know later today,
he'll research it and he just doesn't go out there
and come crush. So Chris, congratulations on an amazing career.
And I'm sure that you're going to be a successful
in doing whatever you're doing. So so well done, my friend.
I just want to backtrack a little bit to Davis
Cup for a second. I cannot believe that tennis is
(25:49):
still going on even Tennis Channel the other day put
on one of their.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
He's like wave the white flag like that.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Just when you thought the thing was over, we're still here.
You also, why Cineple's out. We'll give the guy a break.
He's won two titles back to back. For you, He's
had an unbelievably long year, a stress or a year
marked by you know the suspension for three months, which
I'm sure took a mental.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Toll on him.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
But you know, look, somebody else has to try and win.
There's enough bloody Italian players to try and win the
Davis Cup again.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
So very deep bench, I do think that much like
your topsy turvy let's throw a grenade in the mix
kind of commentary, like let's give everyone press access for
a year, or let's condense this. You know, have this
thing every four years, guys, please, oh yeah, just make
it meaningful because two years, every two years like the
(26:41):
World Cup kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Okay, with every two years. Its kind of like ryde
A Cup.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
You know. Well, I don't care about golf and I can't,
but I do think some I think four years feels good.
It's like the Olympics.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
We're like, oh, I don't have it in the Olympic year, don't.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Have it in the open you have it off years.
So every two years really big? Yeah, make it really big.
And I do think and you've been saying this for
a long time and I kind of have not really
appreciated it because I didn't ever play on my countries.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
I thought you were going to say you didn't appreciate.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Me, and maybe I didn't appreciate you. But here I
am telling you twice today. Wow, I'm gonna start crying.
I do think that you have been right to say
that it really misses out from not having a home
and away. I think the whole thing of it actually
is that you need to give people the opportunity to
celebrate their country. And I'm not saying you need to
(27:33):
play the preliminary rounds in a particular, you know place.
I think it's probably smart to rotate that, but when
it gets down to like the last.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
That especially better idea.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
I think should have rotation. They should. I it would
be cool to have it like the way that we
have basketball, where it's like if it's Australia VERSUS America,
then maybe it's best you do it every four years
American and Australia are going to split the finals. So
the one match in each place, and if there's a third,
whoever has the best or score, you do it there.
I don't know. Something that does get the crowd involved,
(28:03):
but maybe doesn't give us such a huge advantage, or
at least people can fly to one place and know
that they're going to see their people yeah, maybe.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
You have a grouped a thing at one place and
it becomes a destination for tennis fans to go and
watch their country, and then you have the winner. What
people don't understand is that those countries have to via
for it, like they you know, they have to say, yeah,
we want it to here, right. Some don't want it
because they can't afford it.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Who doesn't want it?
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Some can't afford it. Some you know, a country like
I don't know. Let's say I'm not gonna say Italy
because they get great support.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
But let's say Belgium.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Belgium, they can't afford to build the stadium or you
know it at all all the things. I don't know.
It's not that easy. It does cost the federation. It's
quite a lot of money to put on Fed Cup,
a Belligan King Cup and Davis Cup.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
So she resolve the more reason to do it every four.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Years exactly, and then all and the IF should be
unbelievably much more supportive of helping with that.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
That does grassroots.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Okay, well, let's get to a little bit of the
grassroots and talk about some fabulous news that we found
out today. Oh and this is one of the reasons
why we're glad we didn't do the podcast on Monday,
because we would not have known this news. One bit
of news that we already knew was that mister Roger
Federer will be going into the Tennis Hall of Fame,
(29:23):
and you know, arguably, I would say, is going to
be the most unbelievably popular champion to ever go in there.
I think the love he's going to receive that weekend
is going to be extraordinary, but more importantly.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
More importantly, more importantly a lot.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
For us, for me and you, Caitlin, and I can
honestly say this, this person is the reason, maybe not
the entire reason, but certainly a huge reason. Which of
what why I am in do commentary and I have
this podcast and I have taken it to loving this
sport so much and done it in the media after
(30:04):
finishing and not gonna get another job, is because this
person supported me more than anybody I've ever known in
my life in this industry of media and tennis. Then
our great friend and one of the nicest, most loving, supportive,
(30:24):
amazing people we've ever met in our lives, and that
is Mary Carrillo, is going into the Tennis Hall of
Fame as a contributor to the sport of tennis, and
we could not be fucking happier. And I saw the
announcement on Instagram today from Katrina Adams, our other great friend,
and I literally it came after I was just happened
(30:45):
to have the Hall of Fame came up on my
Instagram and it was like Roger getting announced by Kim
Cleisters and blah blah blah. And then the next slide
I see Katrina Adams and Mary Carillo and I'm like, oh, oh,
my god, and I started to cry because Mary Carillo is,
without question, my just I just I've I just want
(31:08):
to be Mary Carrilla. Yeah, I mean, I've wanted to
be Mary since I stopped playing tennis.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Mary Carillo is for me, the person I've wanted to
be when I grew up, and to this day, the
best person that I've outside of me, outside of Renee
Steps that I that I've have had the privilege of
spending time and space in the sport. She's somebody who
is unapologetically embracing of the sport in always she is
(31:37):
fearless about speaking truth to power, which truly, truly is
among the most formidable things about her, because if you
know anything about tennis, and this is probably not untrue
in other sports as well, or you know politics, which
is the world that I came from as a journalist
before before starting Ragget, and like the amount of self dealing,
(31:59):
self aggrandized, backstabbing, machinations, dummies in charge making very very
uninformed decision. It's just it's rife with a bunch of
amazing people, and it's rife with.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
A lot of I think you said it's self serving.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
It's rife with a lot of conflicts of interest and
very few people. Everyone is disincentivized from talking about it,
and a lot of people, even journalists that I know
and some I even admire, have decided to pull their punches.
And Mary has never been that person. He would rather,
on principle, and we've seen it from her time and
(32:38):
time and time again, lose her job, take herself out
of contention from commentating a match involving a player who
credibly accused by many of domestic abuse. She would rather
take a knee as opposed to working for or with
people she considers to be on the wrong side of
history and morals. And I think all of the wonderful
(33:00):
things you can say about Mary, her incredible commentary, her hilarious, heartfelt,
knowledgeable and insightful journalism. That her record speaks for itself.
But it's the part that I know and that you
know that people don't necessarily see, which is that she's
in the back rooms fighting the good fight, always, always,
And so yeah, I couldn't be more excited. I'm contemplating
(33:23):
just going up there and showing up for her and
then just been like, well, my time here is done. Bye.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
I did talk to her this morning for and I
did say that Mary, I just want to see your
speech because it's going to be in going to be hilarious,
it will be heartfelt. There were one hundred percent tiers
from everybody that I.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Soo when you meet people as talented as she is
and don't get it twisted. Mary Crilla also has a
Grand Slam to her name, which is one more Grand
Slam than almost anybody else on the planet, by the way,
winning a mixed doubles with John Ekron at the French
I believe in seventy eight ers yesterday. Yes, so you know,
not a shitty tennis player when you when you think
of all the amazing things about you know, people who
(34:05):
have really expanded our understanding the game, made so many
doorways open. She made it fun. Yeah, she was just
she's She's truly tremendous. And to me, she's one of
the best commentators who's ever lived and.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
One of the greatest vices on the world.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Feed yea more than I enjoy almost everyone on the
main broadcast.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
And if Mary she does listen to our podcast from
time to time, and I hope she listens to this one.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
And I'm going to.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Make her because she's going to hate every lovely thing
we're saying about her. She's going to want to throw
herself off a building. But Mary, one thing you don't
know about Mary is that Mary carries around these books
of you know, like when you're at school and you
there's certain those certain.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Books that you carry around notebook thank you.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
I didn't go to school, And she has boxes and
boxes and boxes, and I I hope that I actually
will make this suggestion to her, and it probably won't happen,
but one of the things that I would like to
see go into the Hall of Fame is one of
those books, oh her archives, because she You've never like
Mary will get a story about someone and she'll write
(35:14):
it in that in that book. And then she'll hear
a story about someone else and she'll write in that book,
and then she'll research something about them that she'll write
it in that book. And then the match will get
played and she'll write something in the book. And Mary
is so old school with the journalistic and sort of
commentators way of doing things that the things that are
written in those books she's luis. She'll like, she'll have
(35:35):
one with her and we'll be changed. Oh, listen to
listen to this back in sevent you know, ninety five,
and she'll click through the thing and she'll have some
story that she's written down. She just she's an archives
of her own, and it should be the Mary Carillo
Archives would be very interesting.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
The international tennis of him. I will read her book.
At one point offered to write her book. I say,
doesn't need my help to write. She's a fantastic writer.
But I think in conclusion, Mary Krillo is, if there
are any justice in the world, would be truly in
charge of the whole thing of it.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
She she's a mensch and we just we love her.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Well. Congratulations, Mary will be there to celebrate you.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
We will be there with some bells. We'll bring some bells.
One thing that was a little bit controversially about that
didn't get in was one Martin del Potro did not
get it, put in in his first ballot, which is interesting.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
He's fellow Argentine, Gabriella Sebertini. Yeah, got in with the
same amount of slams. Yeah as he has.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Yeah, he had Davis cupp and he has maybe also
at the Olympics. But more controversial is the fact that
Svetlana kuz Netzba didn't get in. She's like four, Like,
what are we doing? Hey, are you guys voting on
actual criteria? Because there are people in the Hall of
Fame that won one Grand Slam, Michael Chang, Gabriellas Abertini,
We've mentioned a.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Few of them.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Yeah, and it's not a slide on them because they
were very important in their ears and very important with
what they gave to tennis. But fuck, come on, I mean,
is it because she's Russian? Maybe the only thing that
I can think of, because Svetlana kus Netzeva has won
two major titles in singles, won multiple doubles Grand slams,
which should count. There are doubles players in the in
(37:11):
the Hall of Fame. Yeah, and one fed Cup Billy
Jean Cup many times for Russia, was the stalwart of
that team for years.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
And has a really cool back tattoo.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
And fairly certain she's won medals at the Olympics. I
should look that up.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Yeah, she has.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
And you don't vote her into the Hall of Fame.
What the fuck are we doing? Like, come on now.
The only thing I can think of is that they
wanted Raja on his own. If that's the case, don't
nominate somebody else.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Yeah, that is true, because that is bullshit. Sorry, no, agree.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Svetlana kuz Netzeva deserves to be in the Tennis Hall
of Fame on her first ballot.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Make drop, no disagreement.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
So and I get it. It's going to be all
about Roger and it should be. And Mary Krillo at
the hilarity of the fact that we did laugh about
the fame that Mary is on the ballot with Roger,
and she's just like, what are you gonna do it?
But you know, it's sort of like perfect because they do.
She deserves it and I'm sure she got it.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
She is the goat of what she does. Yeah, yeah,
if anybody thinks of her as anything other than the
main course, like, I don't know, get your head, jack.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Mary and I do matches. We've worked a lot at
the last four Olympics together and we have called many
matches where I'm in one country and she's in another.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Love that and.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Mary is the most one of the things. I just
I know we keep going on about Mary, but Mary's
the most generous play by play person you could ever
work with. And there are some play by people that
talk a lot, that take a lot of the air.
There's some that don't really do much research. Mary research
the living daylights out of everything, and she's so good
at stepping back and letting the analysts do their job.
And she's an expert. She played. She's a very good
(38:48):
player in her own right. So I just want to
say I'm a little upset with the Hall of Fame
that they didn't vote in Sveetlana.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
I think that I don't know who's doing the voting.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
I don't vote.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Do you vote votes? I got to vote maybe a
couple of years ago for on behalf of the media.
But I think it must alternate because I don't know.
I don't know if it'd.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Say today, I was like, no offense, But how do
I get a vote of as some random tennis writer.
I'm in tennis media, I work on television, I have
a podcast. I played, Well, why am I? Why are
someone like me not getting a vote?
Speaker 1 (39:25):
Well?
Speaker 2 (39:25):
I didn't get that. I do need to ask my friends.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
I think, like a lot of this stuff, it's it's
a opaque and hierarchical system that only benefits the people
currently in power. And you saw what happened with the
Academy Awards and the Golden Globes when they were revealed
to be just like, very non diverse, very same same.
(39:52):
I know that there's an International Tennis Writers Association that,
as far as I know, doesn't.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Do you think it's Caushi's Russian? I think probably I
didn't want to have that controversy with Roger.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
No, I don't think there. I don't think. I don't
think Russia is as controversial as it probably should be.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
And put their flags back as tennis players agreed.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
I don't think what are we doing? This form of
protest is not really that useful, but I do think
it's more recency bias and it's probably some old fashioned misogyny. Well,
it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
I should be in there too, like Spetlana Kuznetsova needs
to be ahead of one Martin. I mean she wonted
way more titles than he did, so anyway, and you know,
she was the start of the Russians really doing really
well too, you know.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
I mean there were Elena Dementi never won a.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
Grand Slam, true, uh, miss Skina one one prior to
one of French Open, French Open, prior to Swetlanta. But
Spetlana then, Swetlana really was the best Russian player, you know,
when they've had some great other than Maria Sharapova, Yeah,
sure so, and Marie after Atlanta. Really, you know, it's
thought of about the same time, but a little bit.
(41:04):
But Svetlana is the one that really was always in
the mix win slams. So I'm a little disappointed in
that one.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
But well, let's let's end on a positive note that
actually in Newport, I was what were you doing?
Speaker 2 (41:15):
I went up there to work with the Tennis Hall
of Fame and Gamebridge and Parody and a wonderful group
of young women of all ages from about oh boy,
I guess the youngest was probably like maybe seven or
eight right through to like eighteen, and kids going to college,
(41:37):
the girls going to college, and it was it was awesome.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
OK.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
I was on port with the kids, and then afterwards
I did a like a talk, like a little bit
of a not a ted talk, but like a fireside
chat with them, and they were so great. These kids
were awesome. I just want to give them all a
shout out because I said I would, and they they're
looking forward to hearing about it on the Pody Curse.
(42:04):
I tell them that I would curse less on this
podcast today.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Have you cursed less?
Speaker 2 (42:08):
I don't know, what do you think?
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Yeah, actually there haven't been. There's been some sprinkling, but
less like outbursts.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Less outbursts. But Marguerite and all the coaches that I
worked with up there were fantastic. They did such a
good job with the girls. And I sat around after
we played tennis and we did a nice little it's
called their Tennis Fame event that they it's the first
time I think, I believe they've done it, and they're
just introducing people like me that have sort of have
(42:37):
stories to tell and knowledge to give to the young
women about life and about tennis. And I've had some
amazing messages actually from a couple of the girls over
the last few days. Some of them said some really
lovely things at the end, and I'd.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Say lovely things, really good. Those are the smart ones.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
I didn't say it, but a lot of the kids
they were really thankful that I came up and did it.
And I just want to shout out to the Tennis
Wall of Fame and to all the the aforementioned people
that I said, and they did a great job, and
it's what a great you know, the kids are learning
about life and that is so important, and tennis is
such an amazing sport for life. Lessons about being able
(43:16):
to let go of the past, being able to let
go of a bad point. And you know, I was
honest with a lot of the stories that I told them,
and you know, one of the most important things in
life is really to be authentic. And I felt like
I was with the kids and they.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Were, yeah, you're good with kids.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
They were awesome, and I just want to give them
a big shout out. So thanks for having me up there.
Marguerite and crew and all the coaches. They were awesome.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
So that's kay.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Where were you? You're in New Orleans.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
I took Peter, my son to New Orleans. Our friend,
some family friends were there. The dad was filming a
movie with Master P Wow. While our kids were eating
pizza and watching anime in the hotel. We nipped out
and went to the set, which was a New Orleans
strip club.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
Wow. And then this is a little different to my
enter up to rhighte On Island.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
And then I was like, hey, so where's mister P.
You know, I'm a big fan of No Limit Records obviously,
and the dad was like, oh, well, the start of
the show is coming. Just hold tight, and in walks
Tiffany Hattish, what who gives the you did? Tell me?
Speaker 2 (44:16):
You had an.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
Incredible monologue as the proprietor of the strip club. This
movie is filming now New Orleans. It is awesome. It
turns out all of New Orleans knows about this movie.
And I was going in blind and maybe if you know,
I play my cards right my shoulder, the left side
of my left shoulder will be visible for millim seconds.
(44:43):
While Tifnany Hatish was giving her a big spiel.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Oh, great.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
We love Tiffany Haddish, so she's fantastic and her last
big her first big breakthrough movie was in New Orleans
with The Girls Trip, So I had no idea I
was about to see her, and then she comes in
and commands the room. I love it anyway, different than
your weekend, but similar, really fun and engaging.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
Happy to Yeah, and can I just say, it's the
first time I've ever been to the Tennis Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
Oh, it's really beautiful.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
It's gorgeous.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
Sports are great.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Oh my god, they were. I walked in, I went great.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
Man.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
I would have loved to have played here back in
the day.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
The grass is really good.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
Unfortunately it was when I was playing. It was all
There was a men's event, not a women's and I
would have crushed.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
It there, but you would have. This year was the
first year they had men and women. Yeah, this past year.
It was great and they got a good turnout as
they deserved. Yeah. Well, I'm excited to go up there
with you to celebrate our friend Mary Rilla, to whom
this episode is dedicated.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
We dedicate this to the one and only Mary. Well. Guys,
thanks for joining us this week and we'll talk to
you next week. What are we going to talk about
next week?
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Tennis will still be going in somewhere. Sorry, okay, we'll
talk about that.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Bye everybody, Thanks,
Okay, let's try that again. Hello, all right, one, two, three,
seems to be working.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
This up, you guys. I know there's people out there
probably listening anyway. Is it working, Yeah, it's working. Okay,
phones off? Please, jeez, that's probably your flat, it's not.
Oh hi, everybody, Welcome to the Renee sub Tennis Podcast. Caitlin.
(00:29):
I think people like al shenanigans before I actually get serious, like,
you guys should see the way we have to set up.
Do they this podcast?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
No? I don't think they like hearing about the labor
that goes into it. They just want this to seamlessly
appear in their feet.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Well, I hope that everybody appreciates that we do sound
better these days.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
It's true. I was having a conversation with Subner, frequent
listener who said, yeah, some of those episodes were real rough,
and I had to some Yeah, you know, it's all uh,
it's all the upswing. Everybody appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
You know what I appreciate.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
I think I've actually just learned how to do the
ad markers correctly. For the first time. I have been
placing them using a different system.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Yeah, you know, yeah, we apologize for that because we
did get a couple of people writing us on Twitter
and they were like, you know, and I would listen
to the I do listen to the podcast eventually myself,
just because I like to make sure it all goes smoothly.
And then I think, what am I going to get
sued for or something like that. But overall I do
listen to it, and I'm like, what the hell, I'm
in the middle of the word and or a santence
and boom we go straight to.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
This because the clock on the publishing software and the
clock on the timeline do not align. Why they don't align,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
So I want everybody out there to know that is
not my forte at all.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
It should be made so it's actually the Billiam rests here.
Oh good, finally, well you mean finally I can accountability for.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Finally, finally I can hear something.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
You're both the talent and uh, the person not responsible.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
For a Definitely, I would like everybody out there to
know that we do appreciate the fact that you have
stuck with us through the it and the bad.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Thanks. One thing on the note of the good is
I heard from a lot of people about the last
two episodes in particular, we really hit some nerves. I
think we talked about Battle of the Sexes. We talked
about whether Justin Hanna's back in was better or prettier
than the stan Verrinca's. I mostly heard from people who
affirmed my worldview. Oh my god, sure I ever heard
from people who affirmed your world do you We'll have
(02:21):
to have a neutral third party on maybe sometime soon
to mediate You.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Know who we're going to ask because she'll give it
to us because she does not have a one handed
back in. Is Petko when she comes back into New York,
and she will be back on the pot at some point,
We're going to ask her this question with her not
knowing unless she listens to the pod every time, and
she does, but sometimes she gets a bit behind.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah, maybe she hasn't heard it so she can win.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Well, we're going to ask her who she thinks, and
then we'll ask somebody with a great one handed back in. Anyway,
let's before we dive into a lot. We've got a
lot to talk about today. But Janick Sinner, Carlis Agarez,
I know it finished a few days ago. I'm'm sorry
we didn't get to you sooner, but Caitlin and I
get a little bit busy or out of town with
each other.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
We were both out of town. Actually we have incredibly
fun things to report. Yes, and also I would feel
worse about missing the day after if the exact thing
that I knew was going to happen didn't happen. So
it's like, okay, well, yep, GrlA Zakarez versus NX Center
in the final, with the NX centner winning comfortably in
two sets.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, it was uh look.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
I mean credit to them. I'm not saying it was bad.
It's just I didn't need to be on top of it.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
No, look, it was a fabulous match for about a set.
It was pretty good for two sets. But the standard
of tennis that these guys are playing now is it's
just on another level.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
It's true. Somebody was posting just even as recently as
twenty seventeen. One of the finals sort of highlight selections
from the Australian Open, which famously Router Fetter came back
and beat Rafa and like the pace, the movement, the
ball variety was. I remember at the time thinking wow,
tennis cannot get better than and then like it looks
(03:58):
like they're playing in slow motion. And this is like
literally less than ten years ago. Yeah, and so it's
just crazy to me how much more optimized the game
has gotten. And you know, not to take anything away
from anybody who played in a different era, it's just
the game keeps getting better. These guys keep getting fitter,
they keep getting bolder, And yeah, we saw the natural
sort of conclusion that I think a lot of us expected,
(04:18):
which was the two best players in the field by
several orders of magnitude faced off and the guy who
had a little bit more of a hot streak and
who had a better record on that surface prevented.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yeah, he's on an incredible winning streak indoors. It's really remarkable.
But his game is so suited to indoors. He can
just wallop the ball, just wallop the ball. And I'm
going to say and make a statement that I think
Darren Kle will be back next year because look at
that does get rid of him.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Can we just call him and just ask him to
confirm or deny so we don't have to have a
running dialogue about that.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I'll tell you what when and if he decides to
announce this finally and we get the aoka. I will
make him come on this podcast, or I will he.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Was a great when he was on this podcast before.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I will make him come on the podcast, or I
will divulge things about him weekly. Oh, Darren a threat,
You're unnoticed.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
He's told the funniest story about how his wife desperately
wanted him to coach merits Haf. It's so funny, and
instead he chose undo agacy for many reasons, but not
least which was the fact that Maretzaffen was sex on skates.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Financially, it was a very good decision and.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Better decision bring up for coach watch. Though. While we're
talking about that, you tweeted to Stephano saits.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Bass I said, Hi, are me he should? He should?
Speaker 1 (05:32):
He could?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
It was funny though, I mean I sort of did
it as a bit of a joke, and yet, knowing
his thoughts on women, I don't think he's going to
have a female coach.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
I don't think he's particularly sexist.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
He's a few dodgy stuff on.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
I think mostly Twitter persona is cut and pieced.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
All right, Well we'll soon find out, won't we. Yeah,
I'm putting it out there I am available, and I
am I'm available. But listen back to the match. It
was unbelievable quality. Nyanik was just a little bit better
on a couple of big occasions. I think one of
the things that Carlos did not do well is he
missed a couple of volleys that he normally would make
(06:10):
on big shots on big points. I think it's one
area as good a olley as he is. I actually
think it's an area that he can get better at.
I do not like his chopping motion on his volleys,
and people are going to be like, what, So just
trust me when I tell you one thing I can
critique any player on is how to hit a volley.
My volleys were very good. It's what the only thing
(06:31):
I could definitely rely on under pressure. But he gets
to chop choppy on his volley. So Carlos, friend, give
me a call. I'll help you with those. He just
drops his head of the racket too much on particularly
his forehand volley. But you know I'm picking at straws.
I mean, this guy's so good, So don't get at
me and be like, I can't believe you're trying to
(06:54):
tell Carlos Alcahaz how to play tennis.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
But I think one of the things that's so great
about both of them is that they are constantly improving
and constantly open to searing from their coaches. Obviously, because
every time they play, one of them has leapfrogged the
other in terms of skill sets. And so somebody was
joking around, like, you know, lol, the jokes on Yannick,
because this is only going to make the Carlos Alcaaz
(07:16):
that shows up in Melbourne in a month and a
half like that much better, which is pray it's not
on non credible like that is possible, quite possible and
probably likely. Oh yeah, I'm going to learn and improve
from this one match, which is crazy to me, the
metabolism of ways that these guys are getting better.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, no, they've spoken about it. I mean, the reason
why they're so good is that they know they have
to be that good to beat each other, and they
have set the bar for each other all the other players.
And I've listened to a couple of other podcasts and
some people you know, said, well, they're going to make
the players below them better. And I don't see the
players below them reaching that.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
I don't either see that. I don't either, but I
will extend and maybe I'm biased, Well I definitely am biased,
but I will extend a little Felix. Yes, I will
extend a little bit of optimism, because this Felix that
we have seen towards the end of the season, especially
at the tour finals, to make the Semis and make
a very very strong run, is looser, and I think
maybe they will never rach that gap. Like it's hard
(08:14):
to imagine right now that the way that the Slams
went this year, splitting between Carlos and Yanik, it's hard
enough to imagine that that happens again next year.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Maybe it happening for the next five years.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
But I do think there could and should be a
few players below them in the chase, who get inspired,
who get better, who get more comfortable, And I definitely
think from a comfort perspective. Al KaAZ has played, I mean,
Felix Aujelia Seam has played with a swagger and a
looseness that we haven't seen. He's not loose, I still
(08:49):
describe it.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
The issue with Felix is he has to do it
outside right. And this is the thing that you know,
look a couple of years ago when he won that
in the fond indoors, It's like, yes, and I again,
I don't at me. I'm not comparing myself, but I
know when I went indoors, I was like, my confidence
level went up ten to fifteen percent every time I
(09:11):
stepped on an indoor court.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
I was like, even in singles, I was like, I
can beat these players indoors on a quickish court, no variables.
I'm going to come in, I'm going to be aggressive,
like I just felt ten to twenty percent better.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah. And it's interesting because there are players like I'm
thinking of, like Alicia Parks for example, We're like, oh,
well that player really likes playing on an indoor are
like it, Suso game suits your game. She's got that
big serve.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
It's even bigger, and your anxiety level is less because
you know you're going to be if you played, yes,
you're going to be the better player. And that's how
Yannick is. The difference is that Yanni can play at
any court because he has no weaknesses. The guy has
no weaknesses. It's the same with Carlos.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
He's a little boring.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
He's a little boring. He doesn't have any weaknesses. No,
but you know, he implemented, He's implemented this year a
fourhand drop shot, like there was a massive point. He
got lucky on the break point, he hit a shank return.
Then he hit a huge toppy fourhand and got Carlos
off the court. And he chose to hit a slice,
fullhand drop shot that won the point. And that would
have done that two years ago.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Not only would he have not many years ago, but
I think that's a way in which he learns from
Carlos exactly. Like that's to me the coolest part of this.
And I think, you know, talking about Pecko, one of
my favorite essays that she ever wrote for Racket was
talking about rivalries and the way that truly truly both
in the art world, which was her jumping off point
froming around Jackson Pollock and her.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
And if you guys haven't read that, get yourself.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
It's great. We should make it available maybe for the holidays. Yeah,
it's a good one. If you subscribe, you get access
to the back catalog, but if you don't, it's I
believe an issue number three or four. And she talked
about how that same artist rivalry informed and uh, sort
of paralleled her own with her countrywoman Angie Kerber, who
(10:54):
a friendly rivalry that is really truly opening up doors
and possibilities. In the case of Yennick and Carlos, like
really adding dimensionality to the way that they play. It's
exciting and you're right, like nobody really is going to
catch them. But I do hope that there's a little
bit of a tailwind for the other folks in the
top echelon. Everyone was said top ten or top eight,
(11:15):
which is obviously who should up to play in Turin
last week, but like just this, I hope that there's
the possibilities have been illuminated more thoroughly so that somebody
like Taylor Fritz, who's probably always going to be limited
a little bit by his lack of athleticism or.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Well he's lack of athleticism, but also I've spoken about
as at nauseum is his inability to play inside the
service line. He's just not a good volleyer. He picks
the wrong shots to come in on. He just it's
it's a shame because I think if he elevated that
part of his game, he might be able to not always,
but I think he could beat one of these guys
(11:50):
in a big match.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
He reminds me a little bit of Andy Murray in
that way where it's like Andy got dimensionality to his
game because he had to, yeah, and he went from
being kind of a retrievable style hard basseliner to somebody
who could really you know, and Andy was willing to
attack the angles of the court, and Andy knew that,
and he knew and Andy didn't really have a lot
of weaknesses either, and that the thing his second serve
(12:12):
was a bit shite kind of sat there. But other
than that, and speaking of second serves, I think one
of the things that Carlos will be looking out for
if he does play against Yanick in the next match
is that Yanick was taking a lot of chances on
his second serve. And there was some huge points in
that match where Yannick went for the second serve and
instead of just sort of hitting the you know, that
sort of ninety mile an hour kickserve, he was going
(12:34):
like one hundred miles.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
An hour hard and flatter, and it was it was
pushing Carlos back off of the baseline, and it was
creating errors off of the return, and it was also
keeping him not in the driver's seat. Yanick was in
the driver's seat with his serve first and second serve.
And I think he learned a big lesson from the
losses that he had was that he had to take
(12:56):
a few more chances. And he did that, and that
was the difference makeud his second serve or his serve
in general. And that's again, Caitlin, that you what you
can do indoors, you know and get I know, I
bring it back to my I don't usually do this,
but I do bring it back to myself in this situation.
I went for more on my second serve indoors as well,
because technically I had a good serve and he has technically,
(13:17):
Yannick a very good serve, so he can afford to
go for a little bit more indoors because there's no win,
there's no sun, you can take a few more chances
because you know you're ultimately probably going to make it
more than you're going to miss. So outdoors with the wind,
with the sun, you got to be a little bit careful.
The wind could take it a little bit further than
you wanted to or whatever. But indoors, you know exactly
(13:41):
what you need to do to get it to a spot.
And his serve is so good that he knows that
he can take those chances so he can have a done.
And look, you know, when he lost the French Open
this year, he served for the match and he did
not serve a good game. And I'm sure that that
just can bothers him so much that he didn't serve
that totament out. I don't think it bothers him that
he didn't. The game before when he was up love forty,
(14:02):
he played a pretty good game. He missed that one
fourhand off a bit of a dodgy bounce, which I've
spoken about. When he turned around and looked at the
Carlos crew, and I could tell his anxiety went up,
but it was more on the racket. When he served
for it, he did not serve a good game. So
I think the difference when he's won matches. Same at Wimbledon,
he went for the second serve and he utilized the
speed of that grass court, and he did it again
(14:22):
in the finals here. And look, there's no question that
Carlos was a little bit injured. Yeah, clearly he's pulled
out of Davis Cup, which you know some people were
probably like, well, it's not a surprise, I'm not shocked. Well,
the Spanish team have not won the Davis Cup since
I believe twenty nineteen, and Carlos was not a part
of that team. He's the new generation of Spanish players,
and I know that he's desperate to win a Davis
(14:45):
Cup because it is a notch in your belt to
say that you led your team to a Davis Cup.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Or super with the country that has such a proud
tradition of and team competition.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
The last time they won it was of course, I
think Rafa went eight to zero in his singles and doubles,
and Carlos he wants to have that. He wants to
have that legacy as well with Spanish tennis. So I
know that he went there to go and try and
win it. So he obviously has an injury. He pulled
out with that leg injury, so he was clearly injured
a little bit in the final. But having said that,
I think that Yannick, even if Carlos was probably one
(15:14):
hundred percent, probably wins that match just based on the
surface and the way he plays indoors. But hey, overall,
what an amazing year for the two of them. Carlos
finishes number one in the world. Yannick wins two majors.
Carlos wins two majors. Yanick has match points to win,
you know, potentially a third major. I know you hate
the sort of rivalry thing, but from a pure standpoint
(15:37):
of a viewer and a tennis fan and a tennis
purist like I am, these two are just I mean,
it's just so exciting, and I think the other guys
behind them really need to push the envelope a lot.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Well, let's talk about that, likely become close to them.
Do you think coming out of the Tour finals there
are any other players besides the two of them who
have some wind in their sales looking at what a
twenty No, I don't. Again, I don't really want to
sort of talk majors wise, because it's hard to imagine
anybody but them, barring any sort of serious injury or
(16:11):
series upset, doesn't exactly have one.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I have one at the straight and open anybody Novak
I think Novak can I do? And I said it
over and over. I do think that Novak is setting
his sights. I don't think he cared about the ATV finals.
Clearly he didn't play it. I think he's going to
put all this time and effort into busting his ass
one last.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Time to win down in Australia.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
I think he's the only one that can rock the
you know, the cherry cart for Yannick and for Carlos.
Carlos has never made the finals there. Yeah, I mean, look,
Novak crushed him down there last year. There was one
set that was really good, but overall Novak was a
better player. So I think Novak goes in there going
I know I can potentially get to a semim final there,
(16:56):
and I know I have maybe one more last grasp.
I don't think he'd beat as someone like Yanick on
that court. I think Yanick is just too good on
that court anymore. But it might be the one place
that Novak can you know.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
So you never know, I mean, that's where you play
the matches might not make it.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
This also injuries, I mean, an injury can happen to
a player, and you know, there's been a couple of
players that have slipped through and won a Grand Slam
because the top players got injured.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Who else besides Novak comes out of twenty twenty five
with some pep in their step.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
On the men's side, I think that Felix has an
opportunity to maybe reach a major semi in Australia. I
don't know. I mean Fonseca. You hope that he can,
like you know, find his rhythm and start having more
of a continuity to his results. Or I don't see
(17:50):
anybody else Mussetti on the clay. Maybe Musseti on the
clay as possible, certainly, but I don't see anybody else
breaking through next year. I hope we do. Look, don't
get me wrong, I really do.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
I would love to see Jack Streeper back and healthy.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Jack is certainly a potential if he's healthy and back
playing at the austra and Open. It's a good court
for him. It's very hot down there though, and he's
not exactly the best in the heat, but neither was
Novak and he won the tournament ten times. So I
remember Novactor would just be dying in the Australian heat,
but he figured out a way with his metabolism and
his you know what, he was putting in his body
(18:24):
to get him to be better in the heat.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
A lot of hugs also famously doing a lot of hugging.
He had a guru about hugs.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yes, maybe you need to get some hugs in.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Yeah, I'll hug Jack Chaper while we're.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Talking about the guys before we get to more things
that interesting. John Wortheim also spoke about it on the
Socials about some of these Russian players playing in this
gaz Prom event exhibition.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
I love tennis because you Renee Stubbs, a graduate of
the Australian Institute of Sport, are now talking about the
oligarch era, Russian pre Soviet breakup, financial distribution of resources.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Listen, I went to Russia when it was Russia, when
it was a Usshah.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
That's crazy.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
How old I am?
Speaker 1 (19:06):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I went there at eighteen in the Hotel Russia. It
was the biggest hotel I've ever stayed. And there was
an east, west, north, and south side of the hotel.
It was so big we weren't allowed to leave the hotel.
Sure it was I it was it was something else.
It was like, you can't leave the hotel. You go too.
I'm good, I don't go back to the hotel. It's like,
(19:28):
do you see me walking out of here? And then
like a couple of years later when they opened up
the US sign and became Russia. I remember being there
with Lisa Raymond and we used to walk every day.
We'd go to this American diner. We'd find this diner.
I can't remember the name of it, but it was
a diner and we were like, it was like, oh,
it was like the Mecca. We're like, oh my god.
(19:48):
We found like we'd have like tuna melts and like rubens.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
You just weren't drinking borshed by the gallon. Oh.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
We were going and finding the most disgusting American food
we could find, and we loved every second of it.
And it was like, as you know, I mean, I've
I should write a book, but anyway I.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Read a book, you need a ghost writer. I volunteer.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
I've already told you that you can write my book. Okay, great, anyway,
So what do you think about that?
Speaker 1 (20:11):
So situation more context. The Gazprom, which was obviously is
a state run Putin affiliated financier actually of a lot
of the bombings that are going on in Ukraine, has
put on an exhibition invited a number of top players
around the world, and many of the Russians are playing it,
including Medvedev, Karen Katchanov, Andrey Rublev. I believe is not
(20:36):
playing is not playing it, Podopova, I'm gonna get some
of the women's names wrong, but yeah, there's a there's
a there's some non Russians too. I think some of
the suburban All the women didn't surprise me at all. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Sure, they've all been very open about their love of
their country into this trying time. But I'm little surprised
at Medvedev, who apparently was invited last year and said no,
I said no. I'm a little surprised with Karen Hutchanoff,
to be honest as well.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Karen Kushenov is as far as I know, and my
Russian knowledge is not the most in depth, but not Chinese.
But I believe Karen Kashenov is from a minority group.
That is, I'm not sure what their relationship with the
majority government. You remember had the Saffins and Stephena were Tatars.
(21:30):
I think Katschenov is from an ethnic minority group.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Yes, I do believe.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
I don't know where that ethnic minority group sits with
regards to I think Kremlin a.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Little opposite to the Kremlin. I believe so I'm a
little surprised. Anyway, it was just a little bit shocking.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I don't see this as being terribly different from any
other exo with prize money. I mean, I realized that
this is.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Like saying six kings, for example, or Saudi.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yeah, I don't see this. These are private contractors, which
was John Wortham's point, and they're going where the bag is. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
John John was not happy about it either. So anyway, I.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Just I don't know, I don't I mean, I'm not
trying to give anybody an out. I don't know Medvedev's
I'm not in politics, but I think because he lives
in France most of the time, he speaks a fluent
French and he's i think officially a citizen of Monaca. Yes,
I don't think he spends a ton of time.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
It's a bit a bit it was yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway,
that's that's my comments on it.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
You really like, you really came in, came in hot,
and I just went out like a lamb. I like,
I want to talk about Gazprom, I want to talk
about the Grimlin. I want to talk about Actually, You're like,
I don't.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Know geopolitically, you just have a better understanding of sort
of like those conversations. That's why I ask you. You
asked me tennis. I asked you politics. Yeah, of politics,
and the last thing you want to talk about in
your life is politics, which cracks me up.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Political journalists. Three presidential campaigns under my belt and not
one more for the rest of my life. I can
tell you that much, assuming we still have a presidency
in a couple of years.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Chris U.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Banks announced his refinement. What a gym.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah, lovely guy. Fantastic year that he had, was it
last year?
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Three years ago? Three?
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Yeah, two seasons ago.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
He one hand, backhand, South Atlanta native South Fulton Tennis
Center will represent one hander Georgia tech, yellow jacket, all
around stand up guy, phenomenal commentator, and a grass court specialist,
which I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
I last court. I would call him a fast court specialist.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
I would love to ask him if he anticipated his
best successes and titles coming on grass. Grass.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Yes, I can answer that question. But as a kid
growing up in with the merchant light sprinkled listen, I
would say my favorite and best surface was grass or
a fast indoor court. And I didn't grow up on
grass I mean, even though I was like, yeah, Australie
and of course you played on grass, I'm like, yeah,
we played on grass like once a year. Maybe we
(24:15):
were playing on synthetic grass and hard court and shitty
do it?
Speaker 1 (24:20):
I would weader and we should ask him, and I'm
sure he would do the pod. He's a lovely person, yea,
And yeah, Chris, come up. He's now doing as he
very very much deserves to be doing a little bit
of a victory lap. I hope he stays involved in
tennis and on our cover excellent at.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
It, but he'll be commentating down I uh.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
I have a suspicion he probably didn't play on grass
until at the very earliest, maybe in an international junior
tournament here there, like maybe he got invited to US
Junior Wimbledon or US or but I kind of doubt it.
I think he probably didn't play on grass until he
got to post pros. Anyway, I'm not trying to make
this his career all about grass, but he is. He
(24:59):
was exciting to who's fun to watch, and more than
anything else, he assumes like a universally beloved, thoughtful, kind looking.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Great guy, great guy of ten great commentator, great knowledge,
great and you know what the thing about Chris is,
and I can tell you this with working with him.
He researches and he does the work, and he does
the he does the he does the little things that
some other people don't when it comes to commentary and
comes to even if you if you get him for
(25:29):
an interview, he'll make sure that he's If you say, oh, Chris,
we want to talk about X, you know later today,
he'll research it and he just doesn't go out there
and come crush. So Chris, congratulations on an amazing career.
And I'm sure that you're going to be a successful
in doing whatever you're doing. So so well done, my friend.
I just want to backtrack a little bit to Davis
Cup for a second. I cannot believe that tennis is
(25:49):
still going on even Tennis Channel the other day put
on one of their.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
He's like wave the white flag like that.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Just when you thought the thing was over, we're still here.
You also, why Cineple's out. We'll give the guy a break.
He's won two titles back to back. For you, He's
had an unbelievably long year, a stress or a year
marked by you know the suspension for three months, which
I'm sure took a mental.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Toll on him.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
But you know, look, somebody else has to try and win.
There's enough bloody Italian players to try and win the
Davis Cup again.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
So very deep bench, I do think that much like
your topsy turvy let's throw a grenade in the mix
kind of commentary, like let's give everyone press access for
a year, or let's condense this. You know, have this
thing every four years, guys, please, oh yeah, just make
it meaningful because two years, every two years like the
(26:41):
World Cup kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Okay, with every two years. Its kind of like ryde
A Cup.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
You know. Well, I don't care about golf and I can't,
but I do think some I think four years feels good.
It's like the Olympics.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
We're like, oh, I don't have it in the Olympic year, don't.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Have it in the open you have it off years.
So every two years really big? Yeah, make it really big.
And I do think and you've been saying this for
a long time and I kind of have not really
appreciated it because I didn't ever play on my countries.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
I thought you were going to say you didn't appreciate.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Me, and maybe I didn't appreciate you. But here I
am telling you twice today. Wow, I'm gonna start crying.
I do think that you have been right to say
that it really misses out from not having a home
and away. I think the whole thing of it actually
is that you need to give people the opportunity to
celebrate their country. And I'm not saying you need to
(27:33):
play the preliminary rounds in a particular, you know place.
I think it's probably smart to rotate that, but when
it gets down to like the last.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
That especially better idea.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
I think should have rotation. They should. I it would
be cool to have it like the way that we
have basketball, where it's like if it's Australia VERSUS America,
then maybe it's best you do it every four years
American and Australia are going to split the finals. So
the one match in each place, and if there's a third,
whoever has the best or score, you do it there.
I don't know. Something that does get the crowd involved,
(28:03):
but maybe doesn't give us such a huge advantage, or
at least people can fly to one place and know
that they're going to see their people yeah, maybe.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
You have a grouped a thing at one place and
it becomes a destination for tennis fans to go and
watch their country, and then you have the winner. What
people don't understand is that those countries have to via
for it, like they you know, they have to say, yeah,
we want it to here, right. Some don't want it
because they can't afford it.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Who doesn't want it?
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Some can't afford it. Some you know, a country like
I don't know. Let's say I'm not gonna say Italy
because they get great support.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
But let's say Belgium.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Belgium, they can't afford to build the stadium or you
know it at all all the things. I don't know.
It's not that easy. It does cost the federation. It's
quite a lot of money to put on Fed Cup,
a Belligan King Cup and Davis Cup.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
So she resolve the more reason to do it every four.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Years exactly, and then all and the IF should be
unbelievably much more supportive of helping with that.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
That does grassroots.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Okay, well, let's get to a little bit of the
grassroots and talk about some fabulous news that we found
out today. Oh and this is one of the reasons
why we're glad we didn't do the podcast on Monday,
because we would not have known this news. One bit
of news that we already knew was that mister Roger
Federer will be going into the Tennis Hall of Fame,
(29:23):
and you know, arguably, I would say, is going to
be the most unbelievably popular champion to ever go in there.
I think the love he's going to receive that weekend
is going to be extraordinary, but more importantly.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
More importantly, more importantly a lot.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
For us, for me and you, Caitlin, and I can
honestly say this, this person is the reason, maybe not
the entire reason, but certainly a huge reason. Which of
what why I am in do commentary and I have
this podcast and I have taken it to loving this
sport so much and done it in the media after
(30:04):
finishing and not gonna get another job, is because this
person supported me more than anybody I've ever known in
my life in this industry of media and tennis. Then
our great friend and one of the nicest, most loving, supportive,
(30:24):
amazing people we've ever met in our lives, and that
is Mary Carrillo, is going into the Tennis Hall of
Fame as a contributor to the sport of tennis, and
we could not be fucking happier. And I saw the
announcement on Instagram today from Katrina Adams, our other great friend,
and I literally it came after I was just happened
(30:45):
to have the Hall of Fame came up on my
Instagram and it was like Roger getting announced by Kim
Cleisters and blah blah blah. And then the next slide
I see Katrina Adams and Mary Carillo and I'm like, oh, oh,
my god, and I started to cry because Mary Carillo is,
without question, my just I just I've I just want
(31:08):
to be Mary Carrilla. Yeah, I mean, I've wanted to
be Mary since I stopped playing tennis.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Mary Carillo is for me, the person I've wanted to
be when I grew up, and to this day, the
best person that I've outside of me, outside of Renee
Steps that I that I've have had the privilege of
spending time and space in the sport. She's somebody who
is unapologetically embracing of the sport in always she is
(31:37):
fearless about speaking truth to power, which truly, truly is
among the most formidable things about her, because if you
know anything about tennis, and this is probably not untrue
in other sports as well, or you know politics, which
is the world that I came from as a journalist
before before starting Ragget, and like the amount of self dealing,
(31:59):
self aggrandized, backstabbing, machinations, dummies in charge making very very
uninformed decision. It's just it's rife with a bunch of
amazing people, and it's rife with.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
A lot of I think you said it's self serving.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
It's rife with a lot of conflicts of interest and
very few people. Everyone is disincentivized from talking about it,
and a lot of people, even journalists that I know
and some I even admire, have decided to pull their punches.
And Mary has never been that person. He would rather,
on principle, and we've seen it from her time and
(32:38):
time and time again, lose her job, take herself out
of contention from commentating a match involving a player who
credibly accused by many of domestic abuse. She would rather
take a knee as opposed to working for or with
people she considers to be on the wrong side of
history and morals. And I think all of the wonderful
(33:00):
things you can say about Mary, her incredible commentary, her hilarious, heartfelt,
knowledgeable and insightful journalism. That her record speaks for itself.
But it's the part that I know and that you
know that people don't necessarily see, which is that she's
in the back rooms fighting the good fight, always, always,
And so yeah, I couldn't be more excited. I'm contemplating
(33:23):
just going up there and showing up for her and
then just been like, well, my time here is done. Bye.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
I did talk to her this morning for and I
did say that Mary, I just want to see your
speech because it's going to be in going to be hilarious,
it will be heartfelt. There were one hundred percent tiers
from everybody that I.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Soo when you meet people as talented as she is
and don't get it twisted. Mary Crilla also has a
Grand Slam to her name, which is one more Grand
Slam than almost anybody else on the planet, by the way,
winning a mixed doubles with John Ekron at the French
I believe in seventy eight ers yesterday. Yes, so you know,
not a shitty tennis player when you when you think
of all the amazing things about you know, people who
(34:05):
have really expanded our understanding the game, made so many
doorways open. She made it fun. Yeah, she was just
she's She's truly tremendous. And to me, she's one of
the best commentators who's ever lived and.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
One of the greatest vices on the world.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Feed yea more than I enjoy almost everyone on the
main broadcast.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
And if Mary she does listen to our podcast from
time to time, and I hope she listens to this one.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
And I'm going to.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Make her because she's going to hate every lovely thing
we're saying about her. She's going to want to throw
herself off a building. But Mary, one thing you don't
know about Mary is that Mary carries around these books
of you know, like when you're at school and you
there's certain those certain.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Books that you carry around notebook thank you.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
I didn't go to school, And she has boxes and
boxes and boxes, and I I hope that I actually
will make this suggestion to her, and it probably won't happen,
but one of the things that I would like to
see go into the Hall of Fame is one of
those books, oh her archives, because she You've never like
Mary will get a story about someone and she'll write
(35:14):
it in that in that book. And then she'll hear
a story about someone else and she'll write in that book,
and then she'll research something about them that she'll write
it in that book. And then the match will get
played and she'll write something in the book. And Mary
is so old school with the journalistic and sort of
commentators way of doing things that the things that are
written in those books she's luis. She'll like, she'll have
(35:35):
one with her and we'll be changed. Oh, listen to
listen to this back in sevent you know, ninety five,
and she'll click through the thing and she'll have some
story that she's written down. She just she's an archives
of her own, and it should be the Mary Carillo
Archives would be very interesting.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
The international tennis of him. I will read her book.
At one point offered to write her book. I say,
doesn't need my help to write. She's a fantastic writer.
But I think in conclusion, Mary Krillo is, if there
are any justice in the world, would be truly in
charge of the whole thing of it.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
She she's a mensch and we just we love her.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Well. Congratulations, Mary will be there to celebrate you.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
We will be there with some bells. We'll bring some bells.
One thing that was a little bit controversially about that
didn't get in was one Martin del Potro did not
get it, put in in his first ballot, which is interesting.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
He's fellow Argentine, Gabriella Sebertini. Yeah, got in with the
same amount of slams. Yeah as he has.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Yeah, he had Davis cupp and he has maybe also
at the Olympics. But more controversial is the fact that
Svetlana kuz Netzba didn't get in. She's like four, Like,
what are we doing? Hey, are you guys voting on
actual criteria? Because there are people in the Hall of
Fame that won one Grand Slam, Michael Chang, Gabriellas Abertini,
We've mentioned a.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Few of them.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Yeah, and it's not a slide on them because they
were very important in their ears and very important with
what they gave to tennis. But fuck, come on, I mean,
is it because she's Russian? Maybe the only thing that
I can think of, because Svetlana kus Netzeva has won
two major titles in singles, won multiple doubles Grand slams,
which should count. There are doubles players in the in
(37:11):
the Hall of Fame. Yeah, and one fed Cup Billy
Jean Cup many times for Russia, was the stalwart of
that team for years.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
And has a really cool back tattoo.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
And fairly certain she's won medals at the Olympics. I
should look that up.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Yeah, she has.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
And you don't vote her into the Hall of Fame.
What the fuck are we doing? Like, come on now.
The only thing I can think of is that they
wanted Raja on his own. If that's the case, don't
nominate somebody else.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Yeah, that is true, because that is bullshit. Sorry, no, agree.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Svetlana kuz Netzeva deserves to be in the Tennis Hall
of Fame on her first ballot.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Make drop, no disagreement.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
So and I get it. It's going to be all
about Roger and it should be. And Mary Krillo at
the hilarity of the fact that we did laugh about
the fame that Mary is on the ballot with Roger,
and she's just like, what are you gonna do it?
But you know, it's sort of like perfect because they do.
She deserves it and I'm sure she got it.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
She is the goat of what she does. Yeah, yeah,
if anybody thinks of her as anything other than the
main course, like, I don't know, get your head, jack.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Mary and I do matches. We've worked a lot at
the last four Olympics together and we have called many
matches where I'm in one country and she's in another.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Love that and.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Mary is the most one of the things. I just
I know we keep going on about Mary, but Mary's
the most generous play by play person you could ever
work with. And there are some play by people that
talk a lot, that take a lot of the air.
There's some that don't really do much research. Mary research
the living daylights out of everything, and she's so good
at stepping back and letting the analysts do their job.
And she's an expert. She played. She's a very good
(38:48):
player in her own right. So I just want to
say I'm a little upset with the Hall of Fame
that they didn't vote in Sveetlana.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
I think that I don't know who's doing the voting.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
I don't vote.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Do you vote votes? I got to vote maybe a
couple of years ago for on behalf of the media.
But I think it must alternate because I don't know.
I don't know if it'd.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Say today, I was like, no offense, But how do
I get a vote of as some random tennis writer.
I'm in tennis media, I work on television, I have
a podcast. I played, Well, why am I? Why are
someone like me not getting a vote?
Speaker 1 (39:25):
Well?
Speaker 2 (39:25):
I didn't get that. I do need to ask my friends.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
I think, like a lot of this stuff, it's it's
a opaque and hierarchical system that only benefits the people
currently in power. And you saw what happened with the
Academy Awards and the Golden Globes when they were revealed
to be just like, very non diverse, very same same.
(39:52):
I know that there's an International Tennis Writers Association that,
as far as I know, doesn't.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Do you think it's Caushi's Russian? I think probably I
didn't want to have that controversy with Roger.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
No, I don't think there. I don't think. I don't
think Russia is as controversial as it probably should be.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
And put their flags back as tennis players agreed.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
I don't think what are we doing? This form of
protest is not really that useful, but I do think
it's more recency bias and it's probably some old fashioned misogyny. Well,
it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
I should be in there too, like Spetlana Kuznetsova needs
to be ahead of one Martin. I mean she wonted
way more titles than he did, so anyway, and you know,
she was the start of the Russians really doing really
well too, you know.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
I mean there were Elena Dementi never won a.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
Grand Slam, true, uh, miss Skina one one prior to
one of French Open, French Open, prior to Swetlanta. But
Spetlana then, Swetlana really was the best Russian player, you know,
when they've had some great other than Maria Sharapova, Yeah,
sure so, and Marie after Atlanta. Really, you know, it's
thought of about the same time, but a little bit.
(41:04):
But Svetlana is the one that really was always in
the mix win slams. So I'm a little disappointed in
that one.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
But well, let's let's end on a positive note that
actually in Newport, I was what were you doing?
Speaker 2 (41:15):
I went up there to work with the Tennis Hall
of Fame and Gamebridge and Parody and a wonderful group
of young women of all ages from about oh boy,
I guess the youngest was probably like maybe seven or
eight right through to like eighteen, and kids going to college,
(41:37):
the girls going to college, and it was it was awesome.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
OK.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
I was on port with the kids, and then afterwards
I did a like a talk, like a little bit
of a not a ted talk, but like a fireside
chat with them, and they were so great. These kids
were awesome. I just want to give them all a
shout out because I said I would, and they they're
looking forward to hearing about it on the Pody Curse.
(42:04):
I tell them that I would curse less on this
podcast today.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Have you cursed less?
Speaker 2 (42:08):
I don't know, what do you think?
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Yeah, actually there haven't been. There's been some sprinkling, but
less like outbursts.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Less outbursts. But Marguerite and all the coaches that I
worked with up there were fantastic. They did such a
good job with the girls. And I sat around after
we played tennis and we did a nice little it's
called their Tennis Fame event that they it's the first
time I think, I believe they've done it, and they're
just introducing people like me that have sort of have
(42:37):
stories to tell and knowledge to give to the young
women about life and about tennis. And I've had some
amazing messages actually from a couple of the girls over
the last few days. Some of them said some really
lovely things at the end, and I'd.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Say lovely things, really good. Those are the smart ones.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
I didn't say it, but a lot of the kids
they were really thankful that I came up and did it.
And I just want to shout out to the Tennis
Wall of Fame and to all the the aforementioned people
that I said, and they did a great job, and
it's what a great you know, the kids are learning
about life and that is so important, and tennis is
such an amazing sport for life. Lessons about being able
(43:16):
to let go of the past, being able to let
go of a bad point. And you know, I was
honest with a lot of the stories that I told them,
and you know, one of the most important things in
life is really to be authentic. And I felt like
I was with the kids and they.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Were, yeah, you're good with kids.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
They were awesome, and I just want to give them
a big shout out. So thanks for having me up there.
Marguerite and crew and all the coaches. They were awesome.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
So that's kay.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Where were you? You're in New Orleans.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
I took Peter, my son to New Orleans. Our friend,
some family friends were there. The dad was filming a
movie with Master P Wow. While our kids were eating
pizza and watching anime in the hotel. We nipped out
and went to the set, which was a New Orleans
strip club.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
Wow. And then this is a little different to my
enter up to rhighte On Island.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
And then I was like, hey, so where's mister P.
You know, I'm a big fan of No Limit Records obviously,
and the dad was like, oh, well, the start of
the show is coming. Just hold tight, and in walks
Tiffany Hattish, what who gives the you did? Tell me?
Speaker 2 (44:16):
You had an.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
Incredible monologue as the proprietor of the strip club. This
movie is filming now New Orleans. It is awesome. It
turns out all of New Orleans knows about this movie.
And I was going in blind and maybe if you know,
I play my cards right my shoulder, the left side
of my left shoulder will be visible for millim seconds.
(44:43):
While Tifnany Hatish was giving her a big spiel.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Oh, great.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
We love Tiffany Haddish, so she's fantastic and her last
big her first big breakthrough movie was in New Orleans
with The Girls Trip, So I had no idea I
was about to see her, and then she comes in
and commands the room. I love it anyway, different than
your weekend, but similar, really fun and engaging.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
Happy to Yeah, and can I just say, it's the
first time I've ever been to the Tennis Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
Oh, it's really beautiful.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
It's gorgeous.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
Sports are great.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Oh my god, they were. I walked in, I went great.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
Man.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
I would have loved to have played here back in
the day.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
The grass is really good.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
Unfortunately it was when I was playing. It was all
There was a men's event, not a women's and I
would have crushed.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
It there, but you would have. This year was the
first year they had men and women. Yeah, this past year.
It was great and they got a good turnout as
they deserved. Yeah. Well, I'm excited to go up there
with you to celebrate our friend Mary Rilla, to whom
this episode is dedicated.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
We dedicate this to the one and only Mary. Well. Guys,
thanks for joining us this week and we'll talk to
you next week. What are we going to talk about
next week?
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Tennis will still be going in somewhere. Sorry, okay, we'll
talk about that.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Bye everybody, Thanks,
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