Step It Up

After an action-packed week, Rennae and Caitlin are back, and the end of the year is staring us down the barrel! We talk Saudi Masters 1000, Mira Andreeva's visa snafu and lessons for everyone to learn. If you're gonna wake up in the morning and play pro tennis, come to WIN. Otherwise, call it a day and head to the Maldives. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (00:01):
I mean, I do know what you mean.

Speaker 3 (00:03):
So here we are, Caitlin, Good morning, Welcome to the
Renee Stubbs Tennis Podcast.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
We've got a lot to talk about this week.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Should we just jump right into it?

Speaker 1 (00:24):
I mean, yeah, let's jump right into it.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
It's the first of all the end of the year.
I feel like everything happens just all in a hurry
and gets scrambling around this time of year.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
Listen, let me just stop, because you know our listeners
expect this from me.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
How are you handling the cold?

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Thank you? I am touched that you and I can't
believe any listener actually cares how I'm dealing with the weather.
But it's sunny. I was outside playing tennis all weekend,
and I'm about to go to San Francisco actually for
a women in Tech, Media and Finance summit held by
our friend Jessica Leston, who is the founder of the

(01:04):
Information I'm going to be hanging out with our friend
Sophie Goldchmidt. We're speaking out a panel on Wednesday. I'm
going to see some Bay Area friends I don't get
to see usually, and I'm going to be playing some
tennis as I understand it with Meta, and we're going
to be at the Silverado Resort, so I'm going to
see my friend Katie Delich. So it's going to be
a bit of a whirlwind tour. I'll be in San
Francisco a couple of days. Yeah, I'm not getting those

(01:27):
Meta dollars though, So.

Speaker 3 (01:28):
That's nobody is except market sucker bug. Yeah, Caitlin, it's
been a great week. Oh so, if tennis you have
our listeners didn't hear from us last week, we all
just decided to have a sabbatical because it feels like
that at this time of the year, it's kind of like, eh.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
I think you have to rest up for one final push.
A lot of players are doing that. You went to
LA last week in fact, and we kind of felt like,
let's wait until we have a couple of things to discuss,
because week before last they were sort of scattered exhibition,
some tournaments, minor stuff, and then this past week we

(02:06):
had I think a couple of very interesting terms of events.
We had all of the sort of last minute placements
for who's going to get to the finals on the
ATP and WTA side, getting closer to fruition, the WTA
side is set, so you know, and then we had
some really interesting results. So I think, like, now there's
actually stuff to talk about, and there's a couple of

(02:28):
things that we can kind of get into, you know,
most of which are actual tennis news. So yeah, I
feel like, you know, sometimes we've got to take a
week off just because we don't have that much to say.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
Yes, and I would like to clarify something because I
don't know, because you don't care about my Twitter wars
or any of you.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
Can't think of anything I care about less.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
No, But here's the thing. This is what cracks me
up about.

Speaker 3 (02:50):
It is that I wake up sometimes in the morning,
or go to bed at night, or just happen to
check something and I'm like, what is what is happening here?
Why am I getting abused by people again?

Speaker 1 (03:00):
Right? You know, You're just like, what have I done now?
Kind of thing?

Speaker 3 (03:02):
You know, And then tt Sports put out and you know,
this is what some of these like ESPN dot Com
or TNT or Yahoo Sports or all of the fan
doors or whoever it is, you know, they decide to take.
And this is why, you know, Petko and I say
fuck you, fuck you to all these people that take
out like little snippets from our podcast and then they

(03:24):
put it up as a.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
Headline, like this is what she said. And it was
kind of along the lines of.

Speaker 3 (03:31):
Me saying that Novak Djokovic should just stop and he
there's no reason for him to keep playing because he's
not winning anymore, right, sort of I'm paraphrasing not.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
At all what you've said.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
It's not at all what I said. I said, and
I'll say it again.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
He doesn't need to keep playing in tennis anymore because
he's achieved everything and I don't and for me, if
he's not winning slams, you know, as much as he
loves playing tennis, and every right player that plays into
their late thirties, Roger Rafa, Serena, all the players, Andy Murray,
all of them. You know, they love to play, But

(04:08):
at some point, how much do you love to play
and not win major titles? Right when you're the greatest
player of all time, who's won the most Grand Slams
of all time?

Speaker 1 (04:19):
And I think, and so my words.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
Of course, they take that one line and then they
put it up as a headline, and then of course,
sixty five thousand Serbians decide to again go after me
for saying something like that taken out of context.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
So it drives me crazy. Then and then you.

Speaker 3 (04:37):
Say, wow, just ignore them, and that is all true.
I could ignore them, but the point is those comments
are taking out a contest.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
I if you kept going on my comments.

Speaker 3 (04:49):
My next comment was, I hope he keeps playing we
love him in the draw. I hope he keeps playing tennis.
I didn't say.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
I think as soon as you start explaining yourself to
people who are not interested in a good faith conversation,
you've lost. So that's mine. No, you've lost, You've lost
the you've lost the plot. If you're going to argue
with somebody who has no intention of creating a dialogue
in a good faith manner, you've lost the argument already.
It's like fighting with uh, somebody covered in poop. It's

(05:20):
like nope, nope, I'm out. You know what I mean.
It's just like, don't you're what's the There's an expression
like if you argue with crazy, then there's no difference
between either of you. It's just like, no thanks. Anybody
who leaves listens to the podcast, anybody who knows that
we have some spicy takes from here, and then know
that fundamentally we love tennis, we love seeing people who

(05:41):
are great at play it, and that doesn't make them
above criticism for certain amount of the behaviors, certainly, and
we're going to call those things out as we always have.
But in this case it's like, yeah, no, vik Djokovic
win wins, has won everything he needs to win, to
prove everything he's needed to prove, especially with the Olympics
last year. And player, don't you know, I think he yea,

(06:01):
he will choose to do whatever exactly he wants to do,
just like we see Venus Williams choosing to do. I
was on the other side of this a couple of
years ago. I was like, ah, Venus should retire. And
then somebody, I think it was the guys that the
Body Syrup, which is one of my favorite shows out
of Toronto, who were like, we should never tell athletes
when they can retire. They can do whatever they want,
you know, as long as Venus keeps putting butts and
seats and gets wild cards, she can't. And I was like, yeah,

(06:21):
actually that's remember and Andy Murray like, why does he
keep taking his walkouts?

Speaker 1 (06:26):
Because because he sells tickets.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
That's why people want to see him. And when people
don't show up to a single Venus match, when people
don't show up to a single Andy match, or people
don't show up to a single Novad match, then guess what,
those wildcards will dry up, and probably so will their
desire to play, because I don't want to play in
front of nobody. But until people are really uh you know,
signaling that they're done, and these players are choosing to

(06:49):
be done, then you know, what are we doing about it?
So yeah, I would my advice to you would be
don't wrestle with the covert and poop. No, just also
get off Twitter. That's not let them. Nothing good is
happening on Twitter much less any any referrals, any content.

Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah, I mean I see I don't seem to be
able to win.

Speaker 3 (07:07):
I mean they took contexts again from our podcast this
is like last year and actually equated the words that
were said to me and I didn't even say them,
and they posted it.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
Twitter anymore, so they have to come after you.

Speaker 3 (07:23):
Well, this was on everything, This is on Instagram. They
don't go on all my pics and they make these
you know, just horrible comments on my like photos of
you know, a bleach or something. You know.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
Let me tell you, now, you've given them more things
to talk about. So well, I I hope so, but
there's gonna they're going to find something to criticize.

Speaker 3 (07:42):
So the less you say, anyway, just just so everybody knows,
I hope no Jocovi it's place for another five years. Okay,
that's not the point of my point. Okay, anyway, all right,
so let's get to the tennis. Janick sinner unbelievable. He's
on an incredible wind streak on hard court indoors, and
it's really not even hardcore if you it's kind of

(08:03):
like I didn't even know how to describe. It's like
wood but indoors. He is a tremendous player on every
single surface. This is why he's, you know, arguably the
best player in the world right now, him and Carlos
who just heads and shoulders above everybody else. But I
got to give Zverev a lot of credit. He played
some really inspiring aggressive tennis in the final against Cinna,

(08:25):
and he really really made him work in this match.
I think Yannick got off to a quick break of
serve in the in the first set, lost his serve
and Alex like ran with that break of serve. Then
Yannick played an incredible game, an incredible point to break
as Vero serve in the second set, and then ran
away with that second set because let's face it, both
of these guys served so well, so big, and then

(08:48):
Yannick just played an incredible game at five all to
break and then served it out with no problem whatsoever.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
So Yannick again just on fire indoors.

Speaker 3 (08:58):
That's why I've picked him to win the the ATP
Tour Final, because it is indoors. And although Carlos you know,
has beaten him on occasions on a hard court, and
I believe indoors, I just feel like Yannick his power
is just you know. He hit a back end down
the line to give him breakpoint against Verev at five
all on the third It was an unbelievably long point

(09:20):
and then he just got the opportunity to go for
the back end down the line and hit just a
ridiculous back end down the line to win the to
get the break point, and then just too good on
Zverev made a pretty passive I believe error to lose
the game and then Yannick serves it out unbelievably.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
Well, I think the biggest question for me with.

Speaker 3 (09:38):
Janick is is Darren Kal going to keep going?

Speaker 1 (09:41):
He has said that he's you know, this is his last.

Speaker 3 (09:44):
Year, but man, you have to think that Janick's going
to be throwing a lot of dough his way to
like stick around and keep coaching, because you know, I know,
Darren's been coaching so long and it is such a
stressful job.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
People think, how's it stressful? You got the best player
in the world.

Speaker 3 (10:01):
It's not that difficult, blah blah blah, But the amount
of stress on you as a coach to get it right,
to tell them the right things, to give them the
right game plans.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
And Darren's really big on the game plans.

Speaker 3 (10:11):
And and just his whole thought process of getting Yani's
head around big matches. And it's going to be interesting
to see what happens if if Darren k Hill is
on the coaching bag next year, because you have to
think that Jani's gonna throw a lot of money out
him to stay.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
I uh, you know, alex Verev played more aggressive than
he usually does, but he's just not that guy. He's
just not that guy.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
Yeah, he's not that guy.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
He's not that guy. He's gonna falter what it counts,
not because his game's not great, not because he's not
a good mover, not because he has done well to
stay healthy the last two years. It's between the years
and uh, you know that said Center is, it's between
the incredibly dominant and it's hard to imagine anybody beating
him on hardcore for the rest of the year, certainly,

(10:59):
even though he has a chance to play against Carlos
Akaaz one more time before the ATP finals this week
in Master's one thousand Paris event, which is the last
big turn of the year for the men. So yeah,
I mean, for me, there's not so much that you
can say about Center that's particularly interesting. It's you know,
the most interesting thing Yannick Center has done is release

(11:21):
a single with Andrea Bocelli, which I don't feel like
anybody talked enough about frankly, but you know from the
tennis you know this guy keeps it between the tram lines.
And yeah, maybe if you're Darren Cahill, you just there's
only so much money you need.

Speaker 3 (11:35):
No, No, he's not like Mark Zuckerberg money, you know
what I mean, Like he's still I would say I
would do it for another couple of years and then
sail off into the sunset and not even worry about doing.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
Anything else the rest of my life.

Speaker 3 (11:49):
I think the only problem is, you know, at some
point he is married, he does have kids, you know,
you know how you want to spend a little more
time with them. But I think Darren's one of the
most level headed human beings there is, and he'll make
the decision based on what's best for him and his family.
But it's certainly going I think it would be very difficult.
Yanick has spoken about how important Darren is. He's kind

(12:11):
of like a father figure to him, and he's been
such a great influence over him as a person. And
those of us are lucky enough to spend time around
Darren Cahle, like myself, he's always been sort of like that.
I don't know, it's just that guy you like talking
to and bouncing ideas off. And so I would.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
Imagine, is he gonna say, is he still an ESPN commentator?

Speaker 3 (12:33):
As far as I know, Yes, of course, So I
don't know, We'll see. Yeah, look, Darren has so many
opportunities to do what ever he once because he's so
sought after as a coach, as a commentator, is one
of the best commentators, if not the best commentator in
the world. And so you know, that's all all up
for grabs, and we'll see what happens. We'll see what
Janick does. And that's a big void, like there's somebody

(12:55):
who played myself, and when you have somebody around you
that's been so influential in your life, you know, as
a as a coach and as a player and as
a person as Darren is, it's going to be interesting
to see what happens there. And I would suspect that
those questions will be asked a lot of Yannick and
Darren in the next like two or three weeks about
what's going to happen.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
So I don't know.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
I have to I have to give our Juao von Seka,
what a great, terrific win for him, But his opponent
just can't win a match. He can't win a match
when it matters in the final to win a tournament.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yeah, Da Vidovich Fakina to me is overdue for a title.
But I think I don't think it's going to happen
on hard courts. No, it's hard to imagine that he
gets his first title on anything other than the deeply
read clay of Southern Europe, probably Spain, from which he originates.

(13:53):
But I draft on Cheka is really fun to watch. Obviously,
Brazil has had a couple of really fun moments this year,
watching this kid really come into his own. There's been
a little back and forth about his speech to davidovich Fakina,
just saying, hey, man, don't worry, you'll get here one day.
And it comes from the eighteen year old who's already nineteen,

(14:15):
from the nineteen year old who has already got two
ATP titles. I feel for those guys having to give
speeches and having to receive speeches, because, you know, not
everyone as a speaker, especially not in a non native language.
Who I'm sure they're doing their best, but it did
sort of elicit some chuckles among the tennis commentariat to hear,
you know, davidovich Fakina, always a bridesmaid, never a bride

(14:36):
getting a consolation speech from Jeoff Munsika, who's you know,
obviously after a latenings.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
But can I just say it reminds me of I
don't know if you remember.

Speaker 3 (14:44):
This was when Andy Roddick lost to Roger Federer in
the finals of Wimbledon in that epic of course, I
remember the nightmare sixteen fourteen whatever it was, in the
fifth set, and Andy did barely did he lost of
one time in the whole match, still lost the tournament
and had lost I think two couple of Wimbledon finals,

(15:04):
you know, or whatever is. And Roger turns around says, hey, man,
I know how you feel because Roger lost the year
before to Rafa, and Andy's face, I'll never forget. It's like,
are you effing kidding me? You know, because you know
Andy would have thought that in his head because it
was like, wait, you're empathizing with me because you lost
that one time in a final of Wimbledon, and you're

(15:27):
gonna say, hey, dude, I know how you feel. No,
you don't know how I feel because I have never
won Wimbledon and you've already won it like five times,
So go fuck yourself.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yeah, I appreciated that, I feel like Andy. One of
the things that makes some great commentator and why his
podcast is so entertaining, is because he related some pull
punches and like, you know, look, Roger was the epitome
of that corporate class era of everyone you know, following
them over themselves to saying something that was nice as
opposed to something that was sort of a little bit

(15:56):
more I don't know, less polished. Say I feel like,
bring back shit talking in the speeches. That'll be much
more interesting. Otherwise they're just boring to watch.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
I don't know if it's on YouTube. It would be
funny to watch it on YouTube. But you should go
find the speech of that because Andy's face told the
story like, no, dude, you actually don't know how I feel,
So go fund yourself.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
Anyway, we need more cursing, and especially.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
At Wimbledon, especially at Wimbledon.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, they really appreciate salty language at Wimbledon. Hopefully between
or the royal family is there, so you know, just
more more the mirror. How good can jofud take a
get he hits the ship out of the ball, say.

Speaker 3 (16:38):
That very very, very very I mean the guy his
forehand is massive, How good can he get much much better?
I think he can improve on his serve. I don't
think his service motion is I don't love it. I
think that it's the sort of abbreviated. I think he
can get a little bit a lot more on it.
And listen, you can say it is what it is, Well,

(16:59):
no it's not. It is what it is because look
at Yanick Sinner what he did a couple of years
ago thanks to Darren Kale really emphasizing the step up
with the foot. You can change your service motion, especially
when you're that age. And I would like to see
him get a little bit more risks snap. I'd like
to see him get a little bit more on his serve.
He's not the biggest guy, so it's not going to
be as easy for someone like you know, Janick Sinner

(17:21):
who's very told to get that explosiveness and quick wrist
snap and leg drive up into the ball and just
get five to seven to eight more hour miles per
hour on the ball. But I do think he can
improve on that. You think he's back and can get
even better. But the thing that I love about him,
very much like Carlos al Karaz and I guess Novak

(17:42):
and Yannick in some ways, and we've talked about this
about Taylor Fritz, is that his willingness to move forward
and he has fabulous volleys like his forehand volley, And
I always judge a volleyer by often by their forehand
volley because it's not as natural as the back end volley.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
Should shouldn't it the back and should be more natural.

Speaker 3 (18:01):
That's why you'll see players run in and sort of
hit an inside out back and bolli as opposed to
hitting a forehand volley.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
I mean, I'm sort of pointing at myself, but his forehand.

Speaker 3 (18:11):
Volley and his volleys are excellent, Like he hit a
couple of really big ones on big points in that final,
and I think if I think for him that layering
and layering and layering is only going to get better.
Nineteen years of age, he has about three or four
years to really develop the serve, the backhand, the variety hits,

(18:31):
the beautiful drop shot. Like it's amazing to me after
watching these guys play, how much they really implement the
drop shot in the points now because they're both all
these players are so quick on the baseline and they're
all so good with their groundstrokes that they have to
have variety, and so the variety is the drop the
drop shot off the forehand, which we're seeing implemented even

(18:52):
more and more than it was in the back ten
to fifteen years ago thanks to Carlos really implementing that
forehand drop shot into the game. But it's the movement
for it forward and his volleys are excellent, like really
really good. So I just I think his upside is huge.
I think he would have learned a lot about himself
this year with a pressure on him to do better,
and he hasn't had a great year quote unquote for

(19:14):
what we expected the way he started the year when
he smoked rub Lev at the Strain Open this year
and I was like, oh, here he comes.

Speaker 1 (19:21):
But he didn't really have I mean, had a very
good year. Particularly it's number nineteen.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
But when you think about Karlas Saukaraz, he'd already won
a Grand Slam at nineteen, so you know, you was
open and so. But I think he sort of. I
love his attitude, he's the crowd love him. His forehand
is massive. I think he has to improve on the
depth of his backhand. He has the variety with the slice,
but I love that he moves in and I think

(19:47):
his serf can improve. So yeah, tons of upside, and yeah,
I'm hoping I know you hate to hear this, Caitlin,
because you don't like these rivalries, but I do feel
like Sinner and and Alcarez are so heads and shoulders
above everybody else.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
But I think Ja Fonseka can.

Speaker 3 (20:05):
Get there to really push those guys, because I hope
so a lot.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
I mean, I think the downside for all this, and
I'm not trying to be the no no or like
negative about it. It's just the ATP is so boring
right now that I don't it's hard to engage with it. Like, yes,
we already pretty much know the outcome of a lot
in the next two tournaments that are going to be played.
I am dying hoping against hope that Felix O j

(20:34):
eli Asim, who won a tournament in Belgium this past week,
who's really really most alive in most himself on indoor
hard courts. I hope somehow he gets in there as
a disruptor and maybe make some noise at Paris or
the ATP finals. I think the thing I don't like
about rivalries is just that they tend to de emphasize

(20:56):
the pack, and I don't like when things feel pre ordained,
and I don't like out for gun conclusions. I think
that's really boring. And so when we only have like
how many more can this one guy win or how
many you know, like a lot of times the matches
aren't particularly competitive or good, like we saw at the
US Open, and granted probably Yanik was not you know,

(21:17):
physically fit for that match, but you know, they only
really turned into classics on on certain occasions. And I think,
for me, what I want to see out of the
ATP certainly is that the Taylor Fritz is the zverevs.
The guys who are top five, not even the guys
who are top ten. Let's talk about the guy who
are top five. I want to see them taking some

(21:38):
wins in the finals when it matters, when it counts,
not necessarily in the Grand Slams, although yes, also the
Grand Slams. But I think the reason that the WTA
to me, just remains such a superior product from a
spectating viewpoint is it's up in the air, like I
don't know what's going to happen. I don't know which
version of Arena sbalanc is going to show up. Is
it the one who won the US Open and the

(21:58):
one who won Australia twice. Or is it the one
who loses her mind and goes a wall. Is it
Ega from pre uh, you know, pre Wimberley Wimbledon, Or
is it Ega who looked unstoppable and and you know,
mows everybody down. Are we going to get a wild card?

Speaker 3 (22:17):
Like?

Speaker 2 (22:17):
Are we going to get a Rebakina who's obviously the
last to qualify but has done extremely well on a
hard courts in years past, particularly when they're fast. So
you know, like, to me, that's exciting, like maybe Jess
mc pawolini is gonna come out of nowhere and snatcha title.
What I like about the WTA finals in particular is
you get some sort of counterintuitive winners. You know, Caroline

(22:38):
Garcia has won a WTA final, we had Fiddlina has
won a won a WTA final. We had Garbinia Magrutha,
who you know obviously won two slams. But like they're
they're the unpredictability is of it? To me is the
exciting part. And so yeah, I hope you're right. I
hope j'ofon Seka gets in there and I hope he

(22:59):
really surges. I hope one of these guys who frankly
is probably risking looking like the second Lost generation. Now
that Center and Alchoriz are installed at the top, and
you know they they didn't miss a beat between the
Big four or Big three and now these two guys.
You know, what's what's Taylor Fritzer or Alex Verev got
to say about it? Tcpass looks like he's lost at sea.

(23:22):
You know, there's really not too many guys. He's you know,
he's on a mental journey. But like, what are we
doing here, guys, Like let's step it up, Like are
you guys cool just showing up and collecting your third
place paycheck every week? Like I don't know that. I mean, look,
I would be candidly fine with that, but I don't

(23:42):
think that that's what you think of when you wake
up every morning as a professional athlete, Like, oh, I'm cool,
bronze for me. Let me get my cafeteria tray and
just take whatever slop's left over from these two dudes.
It's like, come on, dudes, get fired up, Like it's
not making this boring, you know, so anyway, you've you've
you've gotten me all now. But how I feel about
the ATP it feels like it's going to be all

(24:03):
over everybody else. Now you come at me, bros like
it's it's it's two guys and everybody else. And until
that changes, I don't know. I can't get that excited
about it.

Speaker 3 (24:11):
Well, I mean, sits a pass Withdrew sort of hours
before his opening round just recently in Vienna. But he
had no problem going to collect his one point five
million at the six Kings, but all of a sudden
he has a back problem. So I mean, get your bag, bro,
I mean get your bag, and then.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
I mean Vera, I've played one fifty four minute match.

Speaker 3 (24:34):
Yeah, I mean so with I mean the amount of
injuries as well, Like Felix Asia ali Usim, your guy
is trying to make the ATP finals, had to withdraw
against Mina after losing the first set. So there's like
they're like limping to the finish line.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
It's brutal, it's.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
It's it's tough out that rude as well, he's struggling
coming down the end with injuries.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
So there's there's guys pulling out left and right.

Speaker 3 (24:56):
But you know, when I look at the men's schedule
as well, these are big tournaments that these guys are
sort of like trying to get into the a TV finals,
but you know, the women are already in rear, they're
getting ready to play, and the guys are still going
and like and playing Masters one thousand tournaments. Like, I mean,
can we talk about how packed this section, like this
part of the drawers for the men indoors in Europe,

(25:19):
and they're just adding like these random exhibitions in like
the Middle East.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
It's just crazy. I mean, Sinner clearly didn't matter.

Speaker 3 (25:30):
He won six kings, then he goes and wins, you know,
another tournament in Europe.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
So but he is.

Speaker 3 (25:36):
The difference with him, I feel is he is so
assured of his schedule and his load on his body
and when he wants to play and when he doesn't
want to play, and when he does decide to play,
he usually follows.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
Through and finishes a tournament.

Speaker 3 (25:51):
And so I don't know if that's testament to his fitness,
his work ethic or what, but he certainly has no
problem getting to the end of these tournament.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
Yeah. And I think maybe it's also his style of play,
like he is very very He's not there's nothing wild
going on, you know what. I mean, like unless something
out of Yeah, there's an efficiency to him, like you know,
watching him on the US Open courts, you know, he's
not taking any extra detours. He's not you know, he's

(26:23):
not looking to extend any rallies. He doesn't have to, like,
let's get it done, get off court, get into recovery,
and get ready for the next you know what I mean.
So there's a brutal efficiency that. But I also think,
like you know, when it comes to the schedule, which

(26:45):
now we should definitely talk about, especially as we're on
the topic of the ATP. You know, when it comes
to the schedule, I think John Mortham made the very
interesting point and I want to piggyback off of it
because I think he was right and although I'm not
sure exactly why, and I want your help figuring out
if you agree. John Wortham said this whole thing about
the schedule being both highly highly problematic and also a symptom,

(27:14):
not a cause of the exhibitions. The exhibitions are problematic
in the sense that they are perceived as being competing
for the players and also you know, obviously taking the
players into another performance environment in which they can get

(27:36):
hurt and that in a year where the season is
too long already and when they're getting injured already, like
that's not great. On the other hand, if the season
were coherent and maybe made sense, we maybe would see
less of these exhibitions. That's the point where I'm was
making and I feel like it's true, although I'm not
sure I can articulate why I think it's true, and

(27:56):
so I don't actually think it's that productive to single
out any one exhibition. You know, Yeah, the Saudi's paid
more than labor Cup did, but both of them meant
exactly the same, which is zero. So what is it
about the exhibitions versus length of schedule that we can
fix in one fell swoop? Because I don't know that
we should be prohibiting people from going and making money

(28:18):
wherever they want to make it, and I absolutely you
have made that point many times on this show. So
it's for me, it's just more of a question of like,
how can we get what we want out of tennis,
which is a massive meta narrative that makes sense because
right now it doesn't and players that are healthy because
right now they're not.

Speaker 3 (28:37):
Are you getting paid by the minute with saying meta
on this podcast today.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
I'm not getting paid to anything by Meta damn it.
Unfortunately they rebranded to a very useful adjective. Otherwise they
would never utter their word at all.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
You know, it's it is an interesting conversation.

Speaker 3 (28:55):
Then you and I have talked about ad nauseum on
our pod, about adding these weeks and adding these schedules
and getting on a plane and going to practice, and
you're not going to just there's some exhibitions.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
Where you just don't give a you know what.

Speaker 3 (29:09):
And I would suspect that Alcarez or some of these
players don't even hit a ball before they go and
play Rod Labor Prod Labor, the Labor Cup like this
is so quick after the US Open that they need
a break, you know, physically and mentally and emotionally, and
so you know, you know, I know that like Carlos
went and played the Garden Cup here at Madison Square

(29:29):
Garden in December, I think it was he hadn't hit
a ball in like two or three weeks.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
So, by the way, Carlos has two of those coming up.
He's coming back to New York and I think doing
somebody in New Jersey, and he's got another one in Miami,
So like, yeah, there's not the you know, I get
the temptation to beat up on Saudi and we can
certainly do that, especially when you talk about the Master's
one thousands. But I think you know, no, I'm not
saying by you, but like by people, by'd be like
six King Slam there, Ai marketing was terrible. There ar

(29:53):
marketing was terrible, six King Slam. Do we feel comfortable
with this? That's separate conversation. But like as an exhibition,
can't critique it without critiquing.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
We critique every exhibition.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
And I'm not again, I'm not saying you, I'm saying
the tennis governing, the tennis chattering class tends to want
to you know, have exceptional Well, well, no, Labor Cup
is more real because it's no, it's not. It's not
one bit more real. Like it's not real. Don't tell
me that they care because they're playing for you know, yick, noah,

(30:26):
don't you know.

Speaker 3 (30:27):
I would like to see I would like to see
these exhibitions or some of them be played every couple
of years, right and so interesting like the l at
P and W T A. I'm hearing more and more
that you know, there might be a combined atp w
t A in the coming year or two, and I
think that would be great. I think that you combine everything,

(30:50):
you really strategically sit down and you say, what are
important parts around the world, where do we want to play,
Where are we strategically putting the bigger tournaments, and you
carve out some areas where there's exhibition play those players.
You think about someone like gunnix Inn or alcoraz Mades,
how much did they get paid to go and play
six kings. I mean, it's just insane, but it's like

(31:13):
they can make that money easily. They're getting paid a
million dollars a night for an exhibition. So you know,
that's why we sort of, I don't complain, but when
people say the Grand slams Majors need to give more
money to the players, that's why. Because they're playing seven
matches to win about four million dollars and you think
they just got paid five million right to go to

(31:33):
Saudi and play no matches that counted or they cared
about right for no pressure, no pressure, no nothing, nothing
on the line. Just here's some money play for our
people in front of our people in our country and
whitewasher sport. Right here we are, and then you're playing
seven matches of intensity and stress and injuries and fighting

(31:55):
through shit and like dealing with the press and dealing
with you know, not the fans, but like there's all
of that stuff around you, and you're winning four million
dollars or four and a half million dollars or maybe
five million dollars, right depending on what Grand Slam you're winning.
So when people are like, wow, they're still making a
lot of money, it was like, really a mages, not really,
when these majors are winning taking home hundreds of millions

(32:16):
of dollars, you know, whether it be the French Federation, Wimbledon, whatever,
whoever it is, we always yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
I think it's it's very very useful to think less
about the top line number for the prize money and
much more useful to think about it as a proportion.
The players are making a fraction of the money that
the Slams are making. The Slams are rich beyond your
wildest beliefs, and the truth is the most of the

(32:42):
other tournaments are not making that much money, and they
cannot afford both the appearance fees and the prize money.
To keep them. So if the choice, and I'm say,
steph TC Busle, let's not pick on him at all,
because you know, I actually really love him, but like
it is my choice to maybe I think he probably
does have a little bit of a lingering back issue,
certainly been something he's dealt with the last couple of years.

(33:02):
Go make one million dollars in fifty seconds in over
a weekend, or play a two fifty for a total
prize money of two hundred k in Hong Kong. Yeah,
this guy already trains in Dubai. Going to Saudi is
an hour and a half flight yep. Okay, So like
what's it's like that that's a that's an insane choice
to expect anybody to make for what But.

Speaker 3 (33:22):
I guess I guess going back to John's point, it's
like what comes first, the chicken or the egg or
what comes first?

Speaker 1 (33:28):
Like what's where's the problem?

Speaker 2 (33:29):
Lie?

Speaker 3 (33:30):
And you know, maybe talking to the players a little
bit more about how we can make it better. And certainly, look,
I'm as you said, I'm not against any of these
players going making a million and a half dollars to like,
if you're getting paid that, go for it.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
Or five million dollars if you're Yannick and Carlos.

Speaker 3 (33:44):
They deserve it and they're getting you know, Netflix paid
for it to put it on their on their screens.
People watched it, so you know, Netflix wants to get
a little bit more into sports and into tennis.

Speaker 1 (33:56):
Go for it.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
It's only going to betterment. It's only betterment for the
players in the future of the sport.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
So I'm all for it.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
But make sure that like the Vienna's and the Basels
and you know, the Tokyo's and all this where players
are pulling out, the tours have to really make sure
that that's not happening and figure out a way to
make it better for everybody, including the people that are
putting money up at These tournaments are a lot.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
Of money, and I think for me, there's two ways
to go about this, and I think, you know, here's
the portion where I try to be positive and opera
solutions instead of just complaining, which is you know, I
think it is very realistic, especially if the tours merge
in some meaningful way, that the schedule will get shorter,
there will be fewer tournaments. And say what you will
about the two week long Masters one thousands. I think
a lot of people think they're too long. I can

(34:40):
understand that we're not going to have that debate at
this moment because we've talked about it a lot on
this show. But I think for me, the the when
you say the sacrifice that smaller tournaments will have to
make by not being a Master's one thousand or a Slam,
which is true, if those gain and importance are remain
most important, then somebody's got to be a loser. What

(35:04):
I would love to see the tours do in that
regard is not necessarily jets in those tournaments, because we
know for a fact that the players ranked outside of
the top fifty desperately want to be able to play
every week, to make money, to be able to get
their points, and everything that goes along with just being
a touring professional that we don't necessarily see because they're
not necessarily the ones who are most vocal at the top,

(35:24):
which is the tours need to definitively invest in making
the tournament themselves, Tennis, the tennis itself, and the players
more interesting and noteworthy than just the top ten players.
Right now, tennis doesn't have a very good marketing system
and the players really market themselves, so they want to

(35:46):
pat themselves on the back for being like, we have
the most dynamic, interesting athletes, and it's like, yeah, not
because of you. What your job is is to make
sure that whether Vienna has number fifty through number one
hundred and fifty in their draws, it is seen as
just a valid and interesting and great imistration of professional tennis.
As if you had four gas ranked in the top ten.
Now that's a long road to hoe, and that's a

(36:06):
very sort of subtle critique. But I think tennis itself,
if you have a tennis tournament in your town, it
doesn't matter if you've never heard of a single person
hitting a ball, they will be the best tennis player
you've ever seen. And I think until tennis as an
establishment starts selling this sport is that then it's going
to be to have and have nots even more drastically
than already is now, especially in a new reformed universe

(36:27):
where the two second tier tournaments don't even get a
second thought. And so for me, the world of tennis
needs to do a much better job of marketing the
experience of seeing live tennis at a high level, and
it doesn't matter if there's a name brand player in
the draw or not.

Speaker 1 (36:43):
It just helps. Okay, So let's talk a little bit
about the ladies.

Speaker 3 (36:48):
I want to give a shout out to Blinda Benchicch
who came through a just an exhaustive week this week
to win in Tokyo at a tournament that I used
to love playing in the Pan Pacific, but it used
to be at the start of the year. Now it's
at the end of the year because all the women's
tournaments are in Asia. But Belinda Benchicic who survived a
match point down against Mukhova and then comes through after

(37:09):
being on court for like almost six hours before the
final even started, and she gets the job done in
straight sets against Oskova, who played about thirty five minutes
to get to the final because she had a default
from Ribak in the semi finals and the Rebeki Na
solidified her spot off into the WTA finals.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
All right, let's talk there. I'll start a new link.
So good. No, actually we've got most of that. You
said the Oskova played about eleven minutes to get to
the final, and then I think you're going to make
one final point about Benchec.

Speaker 3 (37:40):
Yeah, yeah, so I just want to give a huge
shout out to Belinda Benchicch that's the year outside of
like the top five hundred, I believe, and finishes like this,
a player that we've all always known is such a
great player. I knew that Noscova was going to have
a hard time against her because Belinda Benchicz is that
type of player that if you hit hard to her,
she was going to come back because she just has

(38:03):
that beautiful ability to take a ball really fast on
a fast court, which Tokyo is and Noskova hadn't really
played a lot of tennis getting into the final, whereas Benchitch,
on the other hand, had played oodles and hours and
hours of tennis, including that epic match against Mukhova. And
so I'm just like, that's just huge. You know, comes

(38:24):
back has a kid. I think she's really I think
it's really helped her. I think a lot of people
have come back what must have had a baby. Their
the perception on things is so much different. And she
was a little petulant from time to time in the court,
whereas I think she's certainly improved on that now being
a mom. She's just like, I can't act like that like,
I've got a little girl like watching me play tennis. Now,

(38:46):
so yeah, I mean her excitement level when she won
that time it was pretty big. This is a you know,
former well never former always gold medal champion at the
Olympics and certainly likes to play in Japan because that's
where she picks up a lot of her big time,
having won the Tokyo Olympic Games. So so yeah, a
huge effort from her. It was, you know, possible that

(39:08):
she was going to play Rebarkin in the final instead
of Noskova, but Ribarkin had pulled out with an injury
to her back. Now I just wonder she had made
the WTA finals by winning that quarterfinal match and getting
to the semifinals, and you just wonder if she's like
I gotta get to read see a piece out or
if she you know, it was a legit back problem.

(39:28):
And I'm not saying it wasn't because you know, likelihoods
it was because you always want to win a tournament
and she was probably well and truly the favorite to
win that tournament in Tokyo if she'd made the finals. Now,
certainly you would think that she would want to play
because she hasn't had a great She ends up making
the WTAF finals, but for her standards, she hasn't won
a tournament.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
For a little bit.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
It would feel really good winning a tournament then going
in to play the the WTAF finals. So you know,
the back is a bit of a concern going into
the WTAF finals.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
Ye about Andreva not being able to get a visa,
So we just.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
Kind of bring that up. I mean, it is so
hard to fathom, and it really makes the irregularity of
visa problems which pop up occasionally time to time, usually
not to Japan. Usually it's a little bit more. You know,
Russia has been an issue in years past. Obviously that's
less of an issue now that there's no main major
tournaments out there, you know, China, obviously there's like political hotspots,

(40:26):
so we can get into. But the fact that like
they're just like a paperwork problem, it seems it's hard
to know whether that was Mira Andreva and her team
not filing for a visa application in time. It's hard
to imagine they would have rejected her. But we learned
this because our friend Anastasia, who we did a live
podcast with in the spring around the French Open was

(40:48):
tweeting about it being nuts that the WTA, you know,
final contender Andreva couldn't get to Japan, and our friend
Ellen Perez was the one who was like, yeah, she
had a visa issue. So Twitter did a little bit
of reporting because of Anastasia's tweeting, which and again just
so random. And again you don't know if Andreava, even

(41:11):
if she shows up, is going to get that far
enough in the tournament to win. You know, this is
when all those scenarios come into place. Probably she would
be in the finals or at least in contention for them,
but you never know. Things have a way of you know,
being surprising. But yeah, no, it is crazy that the
thing that blocked her was when it came down to it, paperwork.

Speaker 3 (41:34):
Related Caitlin, she was six points, okay, six points behind
Jasmin Paulini.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
It's crazy.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
If she wins one round in Tokyo she is in
What happened?

Speaker 2 (41:50):
I mean, I know you don't know, but like speculate.

Speaker 3 (41:54):
I think that she didn't expect to need to go
to Japan and so did and have the visa in time,
because it takes sometimes weeks to get a visa and
approved and particularly being Russian, it's more of a nightmare,
as we have heard from our fellow guests that have

(42:14):
had we've had.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
On the pod. So I don't think she expected.

Speaker 3 (42:20):
To need to go to Japan and then all of
a sudden the last minute trying to scramble to get
a visa to get into the tournament and it wasn't possible.
But you know, Elena Rabakina jumped over her. Okay, because
Mira Andreva currently, if you look at the points after
the tournaments were finished, is forty three hundred and nineteen

(42:41):
points and Rebarkina is forty three one hundred and fifty
points and jumped ahead of Mattie Keys and ahead of
Paulini by.

Speaker 1 (42:50):
Like mire points. We're talking like twenty points separates four players.

Speaker 3 (42:56):
And that happened a couple of years ago when I
was coaching Carolina Police Gover same thing. There was four
players literally going for the last like three spots, and
Elena Switzerlina, interestingly enough, was the person that was looking
through the glasshouse at everyone going to play Moscow and
she couldn't get into Moscow. So she went to Bali
on a holiday and said, fuck it, I'm out of here,

(43:19):
and then all of those players lost.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
In the first round.

Speaker 3 (43:22):
Carolina Police go Over lost first round in Moscow, Sloan
Stevens last first round in Moscow, and I'm trying to
remember the other one who lost first round of Moscow,
so they only got one point, so she stayed in.
And then Simona Hallap who was ahead of everybody, pulled out.

Speaker 1 (43:37):
Because she hurt herself. So they all.

Speaker 3 (43:39):
Got in, including Switzelina, who was on a holiday in
Bali not caring and got in.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
And guess what she did.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
That's good, that's a good lesson in Uh, you know,
anything could happen chaos, I will see. Let me see
something actually, which kind of to the point of being
in Bali and by the time you decide you don't care,
you're so relaxed and maybe you just show up for
the tour finals and you play your face off. As
you just said. I don't think it's a bad thing
that Miron Dreva did not get qualified for Riady And

(44:10):
we'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. I love
Miro Andreva. She is one of my favorite players, and
to me, she is what I was saying about the
ATP being a sort of outside of the top two,
kind of a wasteland of could have, should have and
would have. But Mirror Andreva is dynamite. She is going

(44:30):
to be great. She has moments of being great, as
we have seen, certainly in the beginning part of this year,
you know, in the Middle East and in uh in
Ewells beating Sablanca, which is like one of the most
definitive losses that I think Sebolanka has taken, and certainly
a definitive win from Mirion Dreva. She has looked so bad,

(44:51):
and I don't mean bad in the tennis spence. I
think bad in the soul sense. In the last six
to eight weeks. I think she is post and I
think spiritually she needs to go to Bali and she
needs to be like, you know what, I'm still a teen.
I've had a great start to this year, a lot
of pressure mounted, and then when push came to shove,

(45:12):
I didn't get it done. I didn't show up fully
prepared and or I kind of threw some fits on
the court. And I'm going to give her a big
pass because she's young, and I think part of her
emotion is in fact what fuels her fantastic, brilliant and
varied tennis that I like so much, and we haven't
ever seen it really an outburst directed anybody, but it

(45:34):
seems like her box and her own self. It feels
more Medvedevian than it does like her, you know, sort
of getting in a fight with another player. But I
just think she's young. She'll be back there, she'll be
back in this position. Hopefully the six points difference will,
you know, not reappear on the Ledger state. But I
think it's not a bad thing that she's shutting down

(45:55):
our season and she's got to go like cool out
and start again.

Speaker 3 (45:58):
You know how much any times she's probably thought about
that one match that she just tanked because she just
had the sits and she was done with it, right,
And you think, if I just not lost my shit there,
I would be in the WTA finals.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
And what a good lesson to learn as a teenager
as opposed to a thirty five year old journey person
on your last tournament or two, your last year or two.
She won't make that mistake again. And I think the
larger point I'm making almost said meta again, the larger
point I'm making is I think she has a lot
of tennis in front of her. Obviously, her career is
just getting started, and she's got all the tools, and

(46:32):
she needs to make sure that the body and the
mind are sound before she goes and deploys those tools.
So losing and learning a very painful lesson, which is
don't take a match, get your paperwork together, don't take
anything for granted. Those are three lessons wrapped up in
one fell swoop. And yeah, she's going to end her
season earlier than she would have liked to and miss
out on a giant paycheck which anybody gets just shown

(46:54):
up for the finals. But what a good time to
learn that lesson when you're young, and not when you
know it's the end of your career and the last
you know what I should have Cutter is going to
really hire you for the rest of your life. You know,
she has a chance to quarts, correct.

Speaker 3 (47:06):
Her and Rublever off to the Maldives because ruby Lev
decided to shut his down because he said he was burnout,
he was tired, he was mentally exhausted, he needed a
break from tennis. And we have seen just like Andreva
through the year, like just some outbursts on the tennis
court where you just like, there needs to be a
mental check on these guys, you know what I mean.

(47:28):
Medvedev's same thing. I mean, heal the latter part of
this year, there was some stuff that he did on
court and listen, hey pot Colin Cattle, Like, I'm not
saying I was an angel on the court, but I've
saw some stuff from these guys.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
It was even worse than me. So I'm like that
I agree with you in a sense.

Speaker 3 (47:45):
I agree with it for sure. I think it's a
moment that you'll look back on and be like, damn it. Like,
if I want to be the best, beat the best,
I got to be playing against the best all the time.
And not being in the WTA finals is going to
hurt because, as you said, it's an enormous amount of money.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
But you know, someone like jazzmn.

Speaker 3 (48:02):
Paulini, who had a bit of a tough year comparative
to last year where she made two major finals. She
battled her way through, you know, wins rome, battles through
some big matches, doesn't quit on certain matches, and she's
gotten herself at the last spot in the WTA finals.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
Because of that. Yeah, and she certainly got her.

Speaker 3 (48:20):
Visas organized a little bit better, but certainly that would
be and you know, just looking at the points, Caitlin
Blinda Benchic finished eleven in the race before you know,
the final tally. There certainly tournaments still going on, but
the fact that she got to eleven is unbelievable. That
just shows you how like solid she's been all year,
considering she's come back from having a baby, and you know,

(48:43):
as she's young, so that really helps after you've had
a kid, like Kim Cleisters came back and won major
titles after having her first baby because she had a
baby when she was in her mid twenties, you know,
Osaka interesting to see how she kind of turns up
next year.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
She finished sixteenth on the.

Speaker 3 (48:58):
List, which is still pretty goo, but you know, there
were moments where we thought she was going to really
make a run.

Speaker 1 (49:04):
I think that.

Speaker 3 (49:05):
Loss in Canada to Mumbucco was sort of like a
tough one for her probably to take still, but you know,
having said that, like even Fitzlina, she shut her season
down early.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
Was she ended up being fourteenth on the list.

Speaker 3 (49:21):
So that you know, all these players that really I
think the most impressive player to meet this year, that
made it into the WTA Finals without questions starting the
year at you know what, you start the year every
year zero points, right, and then ranking is different to
the WTA ranking to get into the WTA Finals, that

(49:41):
is purely based on how you do starting January one,
whereas the rotating the ranking system as a rotation of
the twelve month rotation. So if someone won Tokyo last
year and they didn't win it this year, that drops off.
So depending on how you do, you'll leave the drop
or go forward. Unless you won the tournament, you're not
going anywhere. But Amanda Anasamova to me is just the

(50:04):
MVP of the WTA.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
Tour this year.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
Agree like agree.

Speaker 3 (50:07):
Finishing fourth on the race and finishing seven hundred points
ahead of Jessica Bagoula at five seven hundred points is
a lot, so that is incredibly, incredibly impressive. She ended up,
you know, seven hundred points ish behind Coco Goff. But

(50:27):
Coco won the French Open and had a fabulous year herself.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
But Arena Sablanca.

Speaker 3 (50:33):
Ninety eight hundred points well and truly above everybody else.
He gives you on ticket number two. But Amanda Anasimova
for me, MVP getting into the WTA finals huge interructs
to her.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
Agree, Agree, And I think the four American women I
don't really care that much about like jinguistic nationalistic stuff
so much. But I do think like this is the
first year there.

Speaker 3 (50:52):
I know, because sometimes you just like, I'm Canadian, but
now the American.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
Side listen, America is not you know, shakes as a
brand right now, so it's not like I'm trying to
join the team. But I also think like tennis is
so wonderful because it's like, oh, look at all these
amazing places that are represented. You know, You've got people
from tiny countries where it means so much to everybody
and everyone knows who they are, Whereas you know, I
think if Jpeg were to walk down the street, you

(51:19):
know a lot of people in America wouldn't recognize her, right,
So like that's you got all all that. And I
do think like the four US women in the in
the top qualifying group here are all very different. Like
it's so interesting that they all earned their stays in
a different way. You know. Jessica Poogola has had a
very consistent year. She's gone deep in tournaments throughout surfaces,

(51:41):
and sizes of tournaments and portions of the schedule, whereas
obviously Mattie Keys has had and Coco have had parts
of the year that have gone off better than others.
You know, Maddie in the in the Swing down Under
and Coco you know on Clay. Obviously, what I think
and why I agree with you that Anissi Mova's is
probably the most impressive. It's just she's at the beginning

(52:03):
of this year to where she is now, the depth
and importance of the places that she did well, not
only in this Slam sense, but also just the high
stakes of the matches that it took to get her
and even the matches she lost, she improved upon them.
And I actually think kind of to my point about
why it's cool to have a WTA finals and why

(52:24):
the WTA is so so exciting compared to the men,
because I think, like Ansi Mova has just as much
of a chance. Despite the point differentially you just listed Arina,
I wouldn't be surprised in the least if any one
of these eight women won this thing A and B.
I think I actually kind of favor somebody like an
Ees Mova over Arina said, like an ego, not because

(52:44):
their bests are different, but just because that's kind of
the unpredictable thing that can happen in this sort of
end of year tournament, and I think that's why it
makes it worth watching. Whereas you know, for me with
the men, it's like I might watch the finals maybe,
but I do I need to see another Carlos and
Yannick match. Not really, I'm good I saw that.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
A No, I didn't. That's no.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
I know that that's a controverty controversial take, and most
people will disagree with that.

Speaker 3 (53:06):
You and I different because there's a lot of the
matches through the tournament that I'm not going to be
that interested in watching.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
Be real blunt.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
With the men, like I will watch every one of
the WTA matches. I will the men's I will watch
maybe the finals or if somebody if FAA looks like
he can make a run, because I really like it,
you know, like I'm not saying I'm not going to watch.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
It, but he is to get in. He's not even
close to in.

Speaker 2 (53:28):
I know that's kind of but my point is like,
there's there's the unpredictability in general a WT is why
I watch it and I think the women have done
extremely well to present themselves as a very diverse and
interesting group, any of whom could walk away with this thing.
What about a Paulini victory, that'd be awesome.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (53:46):
So looking at the men's, you know, Massetti is the
last one, and he's four hundred points above Rude and
five hundred points give or take above Felix, as you
alive seen. Obviously, with a thousand points on the line,
certainly you make the finals, you get five hundred points.
And so when you think about it, if Marceti wins
a match or two, it's gonna be hard to jump

(54:08):
over him if you're Rude and Faa. So it looks
like the men's might be a little bit set, but
certainly depends. We saw what fa did a number of
years ago by winning Paris indoors. He won a lot
of in his very good indoors, but also pulling out
against Mona.

Speaker 1 (54:25):
What's going on.

Speaker 3 (54:26):
Physically, so you know he's going to have to have
the tournament of his life, which he did a couple
of years ago.

Speaker 1 (54:30):
He beat Novak in the final.

Speaker 3 (54:32):
Novak's a question as well, like going into the ATP
finals not having a lot of tennis under his belt
either certainly Sarah Owns, Fritz, Alex Di minor Ben Shelton's
a little bit of an unknown as well.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
Yeah, it's gonna happen there.

Speaker 3 (54:48):
But just back to the women, Yeah, I mean, I'll
tell you like, there is not one player that can't
win that tournament. And Jasmine Palini, who's the last one in,
has played pretty well over the last couple of months.
So Maddie Keys is probably the one that hasn't played
that well over the last couple of months.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
But Rebarkin is certainly looking good. Jpeg always Coco's won
a tournament, you know in Wuhan.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
Sabalanka is going to be the one to beat IGIs Jontek.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
You never know.

Speaker 3 (55:16):
And of course Amanda and Anismova, I think one thing
just looking at and talking and finishing up on the women,
Amanda Anasmova talk about somebody who said, you know what
if I don't want to play, She wins the tournament in.

Speaker 1 (55:30):
China and then goes home. She doesn't stay out there,
she doesn't keep playing, she doesn't play the next week.

Speaker 3 (55:35):
She just goes home and she says, yep, because she
has understood if I'm not mentally there, I don't want
to play.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
I will take eight to nine months off of the
tour if I feel like I'm not emotionally able to
handle this, and I think that is it is a
great lesson for everyone out there, particularly the young players.
Mira Andreva could be one to say, I don't feel
like playing for a couple of months. I've got millions
of dollars in the bank. I know how good I am,

(56:06):
but I'm.

Speaker 3 (56:07):
Not going to be my best if I'm not emotionally
and physically ready to go and grind to win a
WT one thousand or a w T five hundred tournament
having to play against the best players in the world
from the start of the tournament. So I think Amanda Anisimova,
just like ash Barty did number of years ago, stopping
a couple of years because she didn't want to be

(56:28):
out there and didn't want to play. Find your inner
piece and find your inner strength to want to be
out there and grind because you are too good to
be losing first and second round because you get the
shits and you don't want.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
To be there, so don't play.

Speaker 3 (56:40):
I agree, and then decide I'm going to play, and
I want to win the tournament, and that is what
Amanda Anisimova has done this whole entire year. Yah coming
back last year and then establishing establishing herself is one
of the best players in the world, and we all
know when she's at her best she can beat anybody.
No one hits the ball more pure than she does.
If she's not a mentally and emotionally ready and wanting

(57:03):
to grind and play, she doesn't play.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
And that's a really smart idea.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
I think you just summed up to me what is
the sort of post US Open malaise, some of the
generational highs and lows, and also a takeaway for everyone
following along at home, certainly for me, which is like,
if you're going to get out of the bed and
step on a tennis court, come to win, and if

(57:28):
you're not capable of doing that and you can't get
it together, that's okay. Just don't call it. Call it.
It's okay, call it.

Speaker 1 (57:36):
And just be like, go to the Maldives.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
Go to the Maldives. All right, I'm going to go
to the Maldives metaphorically right now because in your mind, yeah,
me too, some other stuff to do. But as ever,
this has been a very useful chat. Is there anything
else that we didn't cover that you feel like as
a parting shot we need to get into. No, just
the weather's beautiful and let's go enjoy the sunshine.

Speaker 1 (57:55):
I think we'll covered it really well.

Speaker 3 (57:56):
I think we started the way we always do, which
is just letting everybody know what the whether. There's like
outside here in New York, very cold, and I'm looking
forward to I'm looking forward to the WTA Finals. My
only issue is it it's a really bad time for
me to watch on television because it's in the Middle East.
And thank God for Tennis Channels. Wrap up, I do

(58:19):
love the match in fifteen minutes.

Speaker 2 (58:22):
Favorite thing is great.

Speaker 3 (58:24):
I will say this is my favorite thing on Tennis
Channel when I miss matches and I can sit down
and watch it. Kudos to the Tennis Channel for doing it.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
I think I like the highlights.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
That Christina Thompson was that was her innovation. Really yeah,
digital digital Douien over there at Tennis Channel. We have
given through the years TC a lot of shit, and
I will say it is really really really stepped up
and the digital in your face, the app, everything has
gotten so much better, and the fifteen minute matches for

(58:53):
me are a godsend because also I don't know what
I'm going to be able to sit down and watch tennis,
and so now I can just get caught up. It's great.

Speaker 3 (59:00):
I would like to make one suggestion to the match
in fifteen minutes. I think it's fantastic because there have
been particularly when you're playing tournaments in China and the
Middle East, as an American watcher, it's hard to get
up at three in the morning all the time, right
and watch tennis. So the match in fifteen minutes is
so fantastic. Just I know it might be AI generated.

(59:21):
I don't know, like they pick the best points of
the game and they put it up there. I'm not sure,
but I would make one request is that you don't
miss a break point, and you do not miss a
set point. And most of the time they don't miss
a set point, but on the match recaps of the
top fift you know the fifteen match, don't miss the
break points because it's nice to know how somebody got

(59:44):
broke broken, particularly in the men's game. Right. So yeah,
so that's my only suggestion for them, But other than that,
it's so fun. I get put on the app and
you have everything. I mean they are behind the scenes
watching people in the gym right now. If you want
to do.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
They still have.

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
Did they still have your interview with Carlos soft Forest
cruising down the Brooklyn Bridge up on the app? I
bet they do.

Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
It's somewhere out there, so I for you didn't see it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
You can see me tal Carlos before the tournament started
when I said, well, Carlos, you always get tattoos when
you win a major, so I think you should get
And I turned around and pointed at the Brooklyn Bridge
and said, I think you should get that tattooed on you.
And I said if you win, and I said, no,
when you win. So I think I planted the seed.

(01:00:30):
I did my Oprah Winfrey moment there of like what
she call it, the board, putting it on.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
The board boarded him.

Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
A vision, boarded him that he was going to get
the Brooklyn Bridge when he won the tournament before the
tournament started on the postmatch interview. I don't know, I
have to check with him, but he said on ESPN's
coverage at the end on the desk that he made
it back before the tournament and he's getting the Brooklyn Beach.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
So there you go.

Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
That was my interpretation of how Carlos would say it
in English.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
But yes, truly terrible impersonation.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
You're welcome everybody out there.

Speaker 3 (01:01:09):
But I think that the bottom line is I will
have to have him show me on his body and
I will take a photo and I will put it
out there. And also hopefully maybe one day dreams can
come true. We can get him on the pod.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
Love that all right? If I that?

Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
If not, go and find it on the Tennis channel.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
App fantastic, all right, good go to the Maldives or
or sure.

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
I'm just going to go to breakfast.

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
Nothing, all right, awesome, Renee creating with you.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
Check it next week's out, see you next week, everybody,
they