Breaking Barriers: Keith Ferrazzi on Authenticity and Leadership

On this episode, host Seano McFarland engages in a deeply reflective conversation with Keith Ferrazzi, bestselling author of 'Never Eat Alone' and 'Leading Without Authority.' Ferrazzi delves into his journey of overcoming personal struggles related to poverty, sexuality, and self-worth. He emphasizes the power of authentic relationships, vulnerability, and the importance of supporting one another in both personal and professional settings. The discussion highlights the principles of co-elevation, the impact of plant medicine on personal growth, and the significance of self-love and service.

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
You don't think your way to a new way of acting.
You act your way to new way of thinking one
day at a time. If you're feeling stuck, you just
do the right next move. And the right next move
has got to be within support of others.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Why don't you be brave enough for one day not
to have negative self talk? Why don't you be brave
enough for one day? That fucking Keith Rosey's enough.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
What I'm trying to get people to do is just
be them. And the setup to get somebody to be
them is when my heart energy makes other people calm
down enough to not be judged, to not feel judged.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Welcome back to the Sino Show.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
This is great, right, I love your energy.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
I know that. Come on, brother, I'm your host. I'm
your host. You know McFarlane.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
Today today we're diving our relationships, leadership and rethinking the
ways we connect in business and life. Our guests number
one New York's time best selling author Right, Never Eat Alone,
Leading without Authority, and the new one we're going to
talk about this. This is a really everyone run to

(01:18):
the bookstore grab this now special book.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
He's going to talk about this. I mean, Keith, He's
a thought leader. He's about authenticity, he's about waking up,
he's about living out loud. He's also one of the kindest,
most passionate human beings I know. And I'm blessed to
have me. Welcome to the show man.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
I am daunted by thinking, do I have to meet
that energy during this conversation? You don't have to amazing
coming the whole way down here to Venice from the
hills just to see my buddy. I couldn't imagine a
better day.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yeah, And we have a lot of history here, and
I just want to say, I mean Keith. There's a
lot of things about Keith. Always curious, always hungry, always
wants to be a better version of himself every day
every day. And what a blessing coaches need, coaches. What
a blessing that I was able to be in spiritual
partnership with you and help you on this path. Man.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Absolutely, you are definitely my blessing. And as you know,
I have probably funneled a few mortgage payments in your
direction from friends of mine, yes, that have also become
your your mentees and coaches, and have been blessed from
it as well. You're a real gift to this planet,
my friend.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yeah, right on. Well, trust is a big deal, and
we trust each other and we bring and I've always
appreciated all the love you out for Schell and me,
so thank you.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
Pleasure.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Let's go back a little bit, if you don't mind,
I'd like to start with people, do a little bit
about you. The Caddy story, Pennsylvania. How you know nothing
came easy?

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Yeah? Well, look, I mean I think asking your listeners
a simple question, which is what are they going to
learn in the next hour with us, I'd set up
a couple of things. First, of I dug myself out
probably several times, which we can talk about from some
pretty desperate situations economically as a kid and along the

(03:11):
way as a leader and as a person, and I
hopefully will really be digging into some of those transformations.
And the first one you're alluding to, I grew up
in Pittsburgh. My old man was a immigrant Italian family
from you from Milan. They found their way to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania,
out on the Boonie Latrobe, Pennsylvania, and unfortunately the hope

(03:34):
and prosperity that they hoped to find was not there
for them. It was a time when the steel industry
had crashed. My old man, a ditch digger steel worker,
found himself unemployed most of his life. My mom had
to become a cleaning lady. God bless her. She's ninety one.
I was just there this past weekend and still working out.
She's crushing it. She's absolutely crushing it. Love her so much.

(03:56):
And by the way, I love her so much. And
a lot of the work that you and I did
help me find that love again, which is so important. Look,
when I was a little kid, I found out because
of my resentment that I was not born into wealth.
My old man got me into private, small schools just
through scholarship and through hook or cook from his good

(04:22):
personal hustle, got me into some really amazing early schools.
And I was sitting in those schools literally with the
melons and the scaifes, etc. And I was just a
poor kid, couldn't afford the clothes and shoes that everybody
else had, and feeling very much less than. But it
was also a blessing, right. What I resented in not

(04:45):
having been born into wealth, I found through relationships. I
was at Caddie at the Latrobe Country Club, where I
went made my twenty bucks a day busting my ass
carrying golf clubs, and I watched these rich people do deals.
I watched them get their kids jobs, and I just

(05:05):
sat there feeling other and less than what I realized. Though,
as I developed a relationship with one particular woman who
was an amazing golfer, her name was a Missus Poland.
Missus Poland really opened up doors for me. I became
her primary caddie. She opened up opportunities for me, She
introduced me to people, she got me other clients. She

(05:28):
was constantly hustling on my behalf. She ultimately was sort
of like a second mom to me. Wow emotional, that
was amazing. Well yeah, I mean her, her son became
my best friend. We went on trips together, we were
all part of the same church together, et cetera. But
the real lesson there that I woke up to was
that people opened doors for people that they care about.

(05:53):
That's what nepotism is about. That's why parents, you and
I would do anything for our kids, and we do constantly.
Now they're starting to pay back right and do stuff
for us, which is fantastic.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
You've been so kind of dyl and thank you by
the way, guy, what.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
A genius, amazing young man. But you know we would
do anything for our kids because we love them. Well,
if you build a relationship, people will open doors. The
relationship has got to be authentic, it's got to be generous.
You've got to open doors for other people, and people
will open doors for you. And that's the way I
lived my life and my first book, neverat Alone. It

(06:31):
shared with the world a pathway that gave me a
ton of success when I was young, a ton of success,
you know, youngest partner ever elected at Deloitte at the time,
youngest officer in a fortune five hundred at the time,
successful young entrepreneur, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
blah blah. And yeah, and I and what I realized

(06:55):
and I wrote the book about, was it was all
about relationship management. And the book was called Nevirit Alone,
but it was about building those authentic, caring, generous, mutual relationships.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
Keith, let's go back to something that you mentioned, being
in Pennsylvania and feeling less than the whole, you know,
the whole and the soul, if you will. So many
people on the show are in recovery or not in recovery,
are scared and had that piece to them. What's talk
about that and how you know how you overcame that.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
Let me start with talking a little bit about recovery, addictions,
et cetera. First of all, you've mentioned it. I've always
wanted to be a seeker. I've always felt now, I
think originally it came from the perspective of feeling less than.

(07:47):
It came from the perspective of not feeling like I
was enough and wanting to hustle to to be worthy. Right,
It was about worthiness, fundamental worthiness. You helped me discover
a lot of that on this couch the early days,
you know, being poor in a rich school made me
feel other and as I started to and I ultimately

(08:09):
got into Yale University. But at that point of time,
my sexuality started to come to the forefront and I
realized I was a gay man, and that was not
in my plans, you know, my dad and my plans
was I was going to be governor of Pennsylvania, President
of the United States. Back then, you know, it was
like an important thing, just kidding, yeah, and I was

(08:30):
really I had a path set in front of me.
And people were ready to stand up for that path.
I was being courted by very successful politicians. I was
working down in DC. All of those things. I woke
up and realized, Oh shit, I'm gay.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
And how old were you then? Gay?

Speaker 1 (08:45):
Well, I think when you first. When I first started
realizing that I was different, it was in fifth grade.
And then I started to become conscious of my sexuality
when I was in ninth grade. In high school, and
then throughout high school throughout college. I would go to
church every Sunday and I would be on my knees
praying to God that this curse would be taken away

(09:08):
from me. Why would God give this to me again?
Just reinforcing the sense of self worth and from a
negative perspective, when you're born into a blue collar, predominantly
Catholic Italian family, this is not this is not goodness.
This is not goodness. And there was no way that
I saw back then. There was no way that I
saw that I could be successful because I saw there

(09:31):
were no role models. I mean back then, there was
no Will and Grace on TV, there was no Tim
Cook from Apple, there was just nothing. Liberaci was straight,
my man.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
Do you remember, I mean you want to be more straight.
Back then, it was crazy. Everybody was straight, everybody everybody
said they were. But with that in mind, I just
dug deeper in the hole, in the hole of self worth,
in the whole of feeling less than in shame. I remember,
you know you spin Ahead and your work was so

(10:03):
important to me. The work of a brotherhood of people
committing to support each other, lifting each other up, was
very formative. You know the book that I wrote, Who's
Got Your Back? Yeah, which you were formative in.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
Because I'll give you the history, the intellectual history. Once
I wrote neveryt alone about the importance of relationships and
networking change your life, open doors, I started studying relationships
that were more meaningful than just networks. They were relationships
that wouldn't let each other fail. I studied weight watchers,
I studied AA, I studied other twelve step programs. I

(10:37):
studied YPO forums, small group of business people committing to
cross the finish line together to lift each other up.
I didn't have a word for it back then, but
what I was really studying was the principle of that
I now call co elevation, right on the principle of
having a shared mission, and a part of that mission
is lifting each other up to get there. And you
introduced me to a group of men that we live

(11:00):
that together in our everyday work, in our work, and
a real trifle. It was a real tribe. It was
a real tribe. And I remember, you know, being introduced
to some of your your crazy clients who you know
just unfortunately just lost a big fight recently, and a
few others. Right. But anyway, so that journey got me
into this couch, your conversation with you around around Shane,

(11:27):
around recovery, I think anybody listening, and I hope that
this episode bridges a much broader audience for you, because
I think most of the executives that I turn on
to you, it's not because they come to me and
they say, you know, I have an addiction. They come
to me and they say they're stuck. And I see
that they're stuck. I see that they are ways of

(11:48):
leading their ways of working, or having them bump up
against a glass ceiling that they haven't figured out how
to shatter with old behaviors. And if there's anybody who
can take a baseball bat to set of old behaviors
and a few heads it's you. Yeah, And that's what
you know. That's what I love about the principle of recovery,
the principle of addiction. Anybody listening to this, whether or

(12:09):
not you've got an addiction that shows up in a
twelve step program or not. And by the way, I
think all of us have addictions that show up in
twelve step programs. Called alan On, that's such an amazing
program where every day, if you think that you can
actually control the shit around you, then you've got a
twelve step program and they will teach you that you cannot.
And it's beautiful. So Alan and I spent a lot

(12:31):
of time in Once I. Once you open those doors
to me, remember I was in a I was in
an emotional relationship with an amazing man at the time
who I wanted to control their behavior right and I couldn't.
And I had gotten my side of the table clean,
and I was looking for that person to follow suit
and it wasn't. It wasn't working the way I wanted

(12:52):
it to work. And I was bumping my head up
against the proverbial wall and it was the definition of insanity.
You showed me a different way of letting them and
I say all this only because I just want to
scratch the surface. That's why I wrote Who's Got Your Back?
How to teach a small group of people how to
have each other's back. My nickname for it was twelve

(13:15):
Steps for the rest of Us. And remember I always said, yeah,
that's a book you should write right away. Maybe someday
you still will. We all need to practice, one day
at a time, a ruthless moral inventory, the ability to
be generous and give back to others, the looking at yourself,

(13:35):
the simple rituals and practices. I think it's amazing, and
that book was the germination of the work that ultimately
became this new book, Never Lead Alone, because what I'm
trying to make business people realize today is that the
team could be disproportionately better than it is. Every team.

(13:57):
We have twenty years of research, three thousand teams in
our day, just that every team can be elevated significantly
from what we generally find is fairly mediocre behavior behavior
of political, behavior of conflict avoidance, the meeting after the meeting,
the walk down the hallway, the talking behind each other's backs,
Versus a team that won't let each other fail, a

(14:20):
team that will lift each other up. A team that
will give each other feedback, A group of people whose
work is better because of being in relationship with each other.
A team that will cross the finish line together, that
nobody wins until the whole team wins. Imagine a roadmap,
and that's what the new book's about. It's a roadmap
for being that kind of team. And it's not the
leader's job. It's the team's job. And I wanted to

(14:43):
provide that one day at a time. Look at what
does it mean to be a high performing team? All
started here on this couch.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah that's beautiful man, Thank you buddy. What's the biggest
challenge you have facing teams when you get in there
like it? Will walk me through it, okay, because I
know you're you're working with the best of the best
in the world, complicated people that will line up on you.
They're going to try to get you out of the room.
Walk me through your process of what you do exactly,

(15:11):
because it's really quite something.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
So I'll refer to the process. But I'm going to
answer your first question, which is what's the greatest problem
with all teams? It's the unwillingness to challenge each other
and push each other higher. M it's conflict avoidance, it's
the it's the absence of a social contract that says, buddy,

(15:38):
I am not going to let you fail and I'm
not going to step on eggshells in in order to
communicate with you. We're going to be clear, we're going
to be direct, we're going to be courageous, and we're
gonna we're going to get to it in a very
big and beautiful way. Now, that's an outcome of a

(15:59):
set of pro to says that I talk about in
the book that increase candor among teams. There's one thing
that can exist that make it makes it a lot better,
which is love. You know, you could actually have a
business which is all about direct, clear challenge conversations, data
being right, truth get into a better answer. You know,

(16:23):
if you look at some of the most successful businesses,
Amazon in its early day even today to great extent,
there's a guy named Ray Gallio who wrote a book
called Principles that really talks about this kind of a
challenge culture. The early days of Microsoft were not pleasant,
but they were rich in their ability to challenge and
to have healthy conflict, and sometimes in those instances, maybe

(16:46):
even unhealthy conflict, but they win because they're trying to
get to truth and they're wrestling to get to truth
and they're not bullshitting. Right, that's the attribute of a
high performing team.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
You can either do it because you have that constitution
and everybody does.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
Or you can build it.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
From love and commitment. You can build it from the
perspective of saying, we love each other, we're committed to
each other, We're not gonna let each other fail. We're
gonna lift each other up. We're gonna be joyful, we're
gonna celebrate, we're gonna high five, We're gonna tell each
other the truth when we don't want to hear it
because we're gonna win together. We're gonna win together. Now,
those are two very different states.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
Both work.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
You know, you can get it get there with love,
or you can get there just by a set of practices.
But where you won't get there winning is through conflict
avoidance and politics and the bullshit that I see and
most most teams, most teams are very mediocre. I'm gonna
say something, you know, I'll let you chime in. It's

(17:48):
like this sounds absolutely heretical, we've over indexed on leadership
and leaders We've over focused on leadership and leaders we
have under indexed on teamship and teams. We need to
focus on the teams. I started twenty years ago a
roadmap for what does it mean to be high performing
in relationship with each other? And that's you know, this

(18:10):
is twenty years of work. It's why the book is
so small. It's you know, as it. Ben Franklin said,
if this if I had more time, this this letter would.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
Have been shorter.

Speaker 1 (18:20):
Well, I had twenty years to really really hone my
craft of high performing teams, and I'm really proud of
this one.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
Well that's beautiful. Okay, let's talk about this, buddy. I
would I would say things to you over the you know,
early on, I would say, listen, I know you kind
of always want to know what the secret sauce is.
You want me to give it to you, like the
thing with oh yeah, And I say, why don't you
be brave enough for one day not to have negative

(18:47):
self talk? Why don't you be brave enough for one
day that fucking Keith Rosy's enough. Look, those those.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
Words still have meaning to me, right, my shame. That
was born from poverty and my sense of otherness and
shame associated with my sexuality. You know that stuff is core.

(19:20):
It's core, and I have I have love in my
life today. After two relationships I was gonna I was
gonna say unsuccessful, but they were not. I mean, I
had two beautiful relationships that that I did not open
myself to and you know, part of it was I

(19:41):
mean so much of it was just I was not
capable and ready for love. And today I am today.
I am today, I am in the best relationship I
could have ever imagined. I am, and I don't know
that I would have ever been ready for it until
I did the hard that journey, you know that twenty

(20:01):
years or so, waking up, and even before that for
that matter. But those still words, they still hurt. But
you just said one day where you're just going to
love on yourself and you're not going to self doubt
and you're not going to have negative self language. I
still need to hear that, right, I mean, it still
fucking plays in the back of my head that those

(20:22):
tapes still play. I've started thinking about and I have
a list of the ten most impactful things that I've
done in my life that have opened up new doors
and awakening.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
For me.

Speaker 1 (20:36):
Early on, therapy was definitely one of them, and I
would put you into the category of whether it was therapy, coaching,
et cetera. But the ability to have another person look
at you and for you to show up and be
accountable for moving forward, that is a powerful one of
my ten, no question. You know, more more recently, about

(20:58):
five years ago, we'll talk about that, I'm sure, But
plant medicine opened up an entirely different But before that
it was things like your audience may or may not
know about plant medicine. We can chat about it, but
before that it was meditation. Religion was very important to
me as well, particularly in the early days of my journey.
But you know what I have found today that my biggest,

(21:21):
my biggest awakening tool is love. The love that I
have for my fiance and the man that I want
to be to not hurt or disappoint, but instead to
help that other beautiful soul that I care more about

(21:43):
than anything, to have that human elevated. The principle of
co elevation which I mentioned earlier, I think as a
guiding principle for all of our relationships of every relationship.
You know, it should be the basis of your teams,
it should be the basis of your business relationships. You

(22:05):
and I know that I've had a troubled relationship with it,
particularly a particular individual who's exited the organization in a
very disruptive way, you know, And looking back on that that,
I can say this, that human was not a coleivating soul.
And I tolerated that relationship in a way because it

(22:29):
was economically advantageous for the both of us in a
way that I'm paying for now emotionally and paid for
even in money as well money real money. But you
know what, I look back on that with compassion for myself.
I'm starting to look at it with compassion for myself
because that was a really serious learning journey and it

(22:49):
still is right now for me. But I got to
tell you love, Love is my greatest healing tool. Right now,
We're going to get into love real quick. But I
want to go back a.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
Little bit, yeah and celebrate you. I think one of
the reasons Keith, you're so successful with these very tricky,
complicated teams one is you make people feel safe they
trust you, And part of it is you're you have
the gift of active listening. You really care, and you
understand other people's pain because you know your own pain,

(23:24):
you know, and all those things.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
Yeah right, you know that's a that's a beautiful That
is a beautiful you see it phrase that I can
see other people's pain because I know my own pain.
You know. People have often suggested that my superpower is
my vulnerability, and I willing miss to open other people
to vulnerability. I don't think I had made the connection

(23:46):
that having been as shame ridden and as as in
pain as I was, it really allows me to be
comfortable with it, open up others to be comfortable with it.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
Right on. That's beautiful, Yeah, right on, Thank you for that.
Yeah man, okay, love. Plant medicine cracked your heart? Brother, Yeah,
how did you go down that road? Walk people through
what plant medicine is, what your experience has been with it.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
So it was about the time that I was writing
Who's Got Your Back? I came here into your uh,
into your universe and met the you know, met the
men's group and the twelve step programs that you were
affiliated with, and you open me up. And I remember
going to those alan On meetings and how powerful they were.

(24:41):
And you know, I feel like anything that we do,
you always get whatever you get from it. And then
there's some sloping off because you've got this this asymptotic
you know, like push of like, oh my god, this
is an entirely new technolog this is an entirely new

(25:01):
set of verbiage, et cetera. Right, and you go through
this massive push and then you get this leveling of life.
It's like whoa. And I remember being in this community
which a lot of the folks in the twelve step community,
of course, would stay away from anything that seemed psychedelic

(25:21):
or intoxicating, sure, because there were some significant things that
took them down to that bad path that had some
of those brands associated with them. I got to tell you,
the thing that I was called to was this thing
called ayahuasca. Now, somebody mentioned to me that there's this
drink that if you drink this drink, your mind will

(25:44):
become rewired and the old trauma that has been deep
rooted into your brain will begin to be more malleable
and flexible will show up in your journey and you
will view it with less attachment. And therefore, when you
get out of your journey, there will be permanence with

(26:06):
your having less attachment to this trauma, whereas in therapy
the idea is that you can you can experience the
trauma in an intellectual perspective, and over repeated therapies, et cetera,
and new practices and coaching, you can begin to rewire
some of this. But the thought was that this was

(26:27):
like the final fucking Roto Router for me, Like it
was this imagining, like We're going to clean the pipes,
It's going to be fresh, and I'm going to be
able to re I'm going to go back to some
of those places that a lot of this shame and
hucking and jiving and that came from. So I heard
about this, and I heard about a guy who was
able to deliver this, and I called him up and

(26:51):
I said, hey, listen, I hear that you do this
stuff called ahuasca. And he was in New York and
I was living in LA at the time. He said,
he said, you know, just having a brief conversation with you,
maybe I was talking for ten minutes. He's like, I
don't want to give it to you.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
You're not ready.

Speaker 4 (27:09):
I'm like, what, what the fuck does that mean, it's like,
this thing is supposed to be, you know, this amazing cure.
He's like, instead, what I want you to do is
I'm actually going to be in l A next week.

Speaker 1 (27:21):
I'm doing a group journey. I would like you to
do psilocybin with me, which is magic mushrooms and has
a lot of the same healing practices and properties that
ayahuasca does. And I said, well, I'll make you deal.
I'll come and do this psilocybin thing with you, but

(27:42):
once I get over that, right, I want an appointment
for the following Wednesday to do the real stuff. Right,
we're gonna do ayahuasca. I fly to New York and
we're gonna do ayahuasca the following week. And he's like, okay, fine,
no problem. So I I did ayahuasca. I'm sorry, I
did psilocybin. And I was in a ball, sweating and

(28:09):
shaking for four hours wow, constantly playing over in my
head why can't I even get this right? Why can't
I even get this right? And I came out of
that and ironically, I actually that night I got on
a red eye after that journey and flew to Atlanta,

(28:33):
and the whole time all I kept thinking was, you know,
that's exactly what I needed, because that experience of trying
to hold onto control, fighting it, sweating self doubt, shame,
that's how I lived my life. You know, I've gotten

(28:53):
good at masks by that time, I'd been very successful,
had gotten pretty good at masking my insecurities years, et cetera.
Unless you talk to my spouses prior, which would say,
of course that I had not been very good and look,
I was not a good I was not a good husband.
And I look back on that moment and I said,

(29:16):
oh my god, that's how I'm living my life. I
did keep that next appointment on Wednesday the following week,
but I wanted to go back and continue to try
the medicine of psilocybin because I felt like going for
what they call the grandmother plant medicine ayahuasca. I didn't
think I was ready.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
So it really humbled you, and you knew, like, I'm
not right. There's something that changed just in that.

Speaker 1 (29:40):
Yeah, it didn't call me. I think what people say
is that these medicines they are spiritual. They're the ones
that I do are from the earth, right, the psilocybin,
the the ayahuasca. They're indigenous, They've been used for literally
thousands of years with indigenous peoples and their medicine. They're
an opening to spirit ruality. I've never been closer to God,

(30:02):
and I am a spiritual religious human. I'm a Christian.
I've never been closer to God than when I'm in
these practices and I'm seeing what God made me, and
I'm rebirthing the human that was birthed into this planet,
that God made me pure at the time, and I'm
just trying to just, you know, shake off all the

(30:25):
crap that I and others have put on the emer since. Yeah,
so that was powerful. That was powerful. So highly recommend
that people read about it right now. There's so much,
so much research. You know, it's not something you have
to take someone's word for it. None of these things
are recreational. These are medicines. You should only do them

(30:47):
with with serious guides that have come with referrals and
experience and training. These are not These are not This
is not a joke. This is serious, hard work, and
you need to do the integri before you know and after.
All of these things are important. But what I can
tell you is they are meaningful and they can and

(31:09):
will change your life.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
My reflection on watching you in the last five years,
from your journeys, the numerous journeys you've taken over the years,
is your kinder, more balanced, not so worried what other
people think about you. And I want to really see
what it's like to be with one person and open

(31:31):
my heart and be vulnerable with one person. It gave you,
It gave you the gift like I feel like I
can actually do this in my life right now. And
you called it.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
In, you called in, Keil, Yeah, I did. I called in.
You called it called in the love of my life.
And I used to think that it really didn't ever
imagine that I could feel the kind of love that
I would watch on movies. I thought it was just
totally escape me. And I just assumed either that nobody
really could or maybe I was just so damn right

(32:01):
that I would never be able to feel that. I
was like, okay, you know, then then finding good acquaintanceship
was sufficient, right, right, And then I would and I would,
I would subject a yes to a relationship that I
knew wasn't the love of my life because I couldn't
feel it. I couldn't absorb it. And that's really so
unfair to the people I've been with. And by the way,
it's not even you know, I've had two long loves

(32:24):
and a number of other relationships. But I even now
think about as I go back on the people who,
you know, I would have dating relationships with, and realized
how unfair I would be, how I was not present
and yeah, you know, I might have been in my
mind high integrity because everything was on the table and it.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
Was like this guy's selfishness. Yeah, this guy. Yeah, this
guy's a selfishness. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:50):
It's nice to be in a different place today.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
Yeah, it's really great, it's really oh my god. Yeah. Also,
your capacity, I just want to you know, your net
for helping people is universal, but it's even more specific now.
You help people in such a different way right now.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
Well, look, I'm not just in the workplace human beings. Yeah,
I still have so much further to go.

Speaker 2 (33:14):
Mm hm.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
You know you say that I'm a seeker. I am
in that. I only hope and imagine that five years
from now, ten years from now, I will be yet
at a fundamentally different level in terms of my ability
to show up with compassion without the tape in my
head continuing to play Yeah, yeah, all.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
Right, let's talk about this, buddy. You have got your
ass handed to you on mini levels, business wise, relationship wise,
a lot of different things, a lot of failures, a
lot of betrayals, a lot of tricky things. Helping you know,
your kids out to the audience, the relapsers, the people
that are falling down, the people that are scared of,

(33:55):
the people that just like, what the fuck, how'd you
keep going? How'd you stay in the how did you
walk us through that path? Please? Keith.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
So, I don't think anybody out there needs to hear
what about my DNA made me resilient and got me
to always get up and get back to the table.
That's not as relevant, to be honest, because I know,
and I've never experienced this, I know that there are
people out there that just don't want to get out
of bed. And you know, whether that's actually I'm sure

(34:26):
they're plenty, or if it's just more euphemistic in terms
of you know, just wanting not seeing the path, not
seeing the light, not seeing possibility. But I'm going to
take it very differently. It was a phrase that you
taught me that I learned hanging around your community. You
don't think your way to new way of acting. You
act your way to a new way of thinking. The

(34:47):
most important part of that is that when you're stuck,
it's trying to get yourself into a fundamentally different mindset
is not the point. The point is action. What I
can tell you in all of my research of twenty
some years to the most important actions are the actions
of otherness, the actions of collectivism, actions of letting a

(35:08):
group of people help you. So everybody out there thinks
they have darkness, whatever that happens to be, there are
a group of people that, if you opened yourself up,
would be there for you to help you get out
of that darkness. And you know, whether that's your team
that you work with, whether it's you're a church group,
whether it's finding a men's support group, whether it's as

(35:30):
we talked about before, you know, alan On, but there's
a group of people that could help you take those
next individual steps to get to the next place. It's
why I love coaching, you know. It's coaching is what
you do for me. As you are one of those
other people that I can turn to when I'm stuck
and you just can't do it yourself, right, you cannot

(35:52):
do it yourself, and a willingness to ask for help
and open yourself up to others. And sometimes you have
to pay those people. Sometimes you can find them for free.
But one of the things that's important is that you
should find a posse that you don't pay for, right,
that is that group for you at all times? And
we all need that. You know, my friend Peter diamandis is.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
That way for me? We had Peter our last week.
Oh did you really Yes, that's all we talked about you.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
You know, it's so important that we find the posse
that we aspire to be like and at the same
time all aspire to lift each other up. That's why
I wrote Who's Got Your Back? You know I wrote that,
and now I've written the book that does it in
the workplace. You know, if you want the self help version,
you could probably go and get through Who's Got Your Back,

(36:40):
which is much bigger book, but over twenty years I've
fouled it down into this much thinner compendium of shifts
we need to make. We talked about the shift from
being conflict avoidant to being courageous and candid, the shift
from being accidental relationships and building bonds to being very

(37:03):
purposeful about that. The shift from trying to do it
all yourself and figure out the answers in your own
brilliant head, or the shift to inclusion and listening to
diverse opinions and opening yourself up to collaborate with people.
That gets bigger and bolder ideas than you could ever
do yourself. So there's ten critical shifts in the book,

(37:26):
and each of those shifts have a hero story. To
have a few simple practices, and the idea is to
use the book as a team to one chapter at
a time. Just start playing, trying new stuff on and
seeing what manifests with the team.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. Something else that you are
a master of the best way to get out of
self is be a service. Yeah, let's talk about service.
There's service in what you're just laid out. Be there
for your fellow play Let's talk about in a global way, though,
let's talk about it for your own way. Okay, let's
talk about that.

Speaker 1 (38:04):
So, look, I think that I had an advantage. My
shame was my fuel for service. Early on, I'll explain
what I mean by that. I think early on, I
didn't think that anybody would let me be let me
in a room that I didn't deserve to be in
the room, whatever that room was. And if I didn't

(38:26):
bust my ass and be of service to others, then
I wouldn't be invited and I wouldn't be worthy.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
And it's interesting because that opened up massive doors. If
I'm running around looking at somebody that I aspire to
be in company with, that I inspire to create things with,
that I inspire to to show up with, and I
look at that person, I'm like, Okay, how do I
serve that person? I'm gonna use as scenoism, how do

(38:55):
I serve that person like a motherfucker? And you know,
it's like the ability to be of radical service, Yeah, man,
to somebody, it is amazing. All of a sudden, some
of those powerful people in the world pause and they're like, WHOA,
you want to do what for me? You want to
help me how? And then once you do that, then
I would follow with my natural authenticity, my vulnerability, and

(39:17):
I would find that these powerful people who came into
listening for a moment because I thought. I told them
I always go up to people, and I'm like, in
my head, I prepared five packets of generosity, Like when
I first met Peter. In the back of my head,
I was like, Okay, how do I help Peter raise
money for Exprize?

Speaker 2 (39:34):
Right?

Speaker 1 (39:34):
Right? This is a guy who I saw doing brilliant
things as a young man. He wasn't the famous Peter
Dimontis at the time. Don't even think he had written
a book. He was a space geek trying to raise
money for this thing called Exprize. But I really bought
into this guy, and I was like, Wow, how do
I help this guy? Wow? And then when I show up,

(39:55):
But let's go one step further. If I can show
up being of service to some and they pause for
a moment, why don't I then tell them what's really
going on in my life? And why don't I invite
them to tell me what's going on in their life.
Now I apply that same service to another level of depth.
Oh so you're struggling in this way, hmm, Well maybe

(40:15):
you can talk to my friend Sino. Well you're struggling
in this way, Well, maybe you can talk to this
other friend, or maybe I can introduce you over here.
So all of a sudden, I'm now being a life
coach right to somebody that I've had a transactional business
relationship with, And now the relationship is loyal, it's deep,
it's solidified. Imagine if a team did that for each other.

(40:37):
Imagine if a team not only was of service to
each other's ideas, but they were in service of each
other's energy right on right, And that's that's powerful when
you start to mix those things together. And what's funny
about it is it's not a difficult path. It really isn't.
It's just starting with simple practices. So today I get

(40:59):
to be of I get to be of service. I
pinch myself like I am called in to help the
turnarounds of some of the most prestigious brand companies you'd
ever know. I sit in these rooms with icons, and
I'm also at the same time helping some of the

(41:20):
wealthiest people in this world who have started some of
the most successful young companies with their paths is young
high growth teams. And as you know, I've started to
work with governments. Yeah right, I mean, for God's sakes,
you know, to be invited in to help transform a
government and help a country double its GDP and retain

(41:42):
it's you know, it's gross domestic happiness. So anyway, it's
like I just God, I love it. I mean I'm
on a path. It's not a cruise control as you know,
like God, it's not cruise control. My crazy head is
still always talking to me.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
But what I said when you first you're.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
People.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
He came in here really cocky, you know, like okay, yeah,
who are you? Kind of like how you talk to
that shaman, like I give, give me on what? And
I only loved you more because I understood how much
pain you were in.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
I never send delicate people to you. No, I send
the people I send to you are the people who
need broken through because they are so resistant. You know,
if you look at some of your iconic success successful clients,
uh you know, so many of them were not the

(42:36):
delicate types.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
No.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
Yeah, now you are able to take a brace baseball
bat to glass ceilings.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
Spiritual baseball bat.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
You know.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
I also want to say something to Buddy that you
mentioned in the warmest my heart when you you know
some of that you pinch yourself every day. I always
tell people we talk about we never ever want to
forget where we came from. And for me with you,
it was the kid who couldn't afford the ayz odd shirts.
I never forget tell a story about that, because it's

(43:06):
really I mean.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
My mom, we were so poor that I'd go to
these rich schools and I couldn't afford the clothing that
they had. My mom would go to the cheapest seers
or wherever it was that to buy regular, just shirts.
But then she would go to the to the Salvation Armies,
the nearly new shops, and she would buy the children's clothing,

(43:29):
the cheapest, rattiest stuff that might have had an eyes
on on it. She'd cut it off and she'd sew
it back on my shirt. But it's even worse because
then I would show up at the caddy yard in
you know, as a caddie, and the kids were like
who is this? Who is this kid trying to not
be us? Like? Who's this kid trying to be better?
They would hold me down and rip those eyes odds off.

(43:52):
And so it's like I was living in these two
worlds where I was trying to aspire to be worthy
of these rich communities, and I was still, you know,
in a world where they didn't appreciate somebody trying to
get out and trying to pull that back. And I
certainly had no navigation skills. My parents, God bless them,

(44:15):
and this is really problematic for Mom and I, but
they didn't know how to deal with it, so they
gave me all of this access. They made it possible.
But then I'd be ashamed of them because I wouldn't
want Dad to show up at his beat up clothing
and his dirty hands and in our car with rough
spots all over it. I'd want them to drop me off,

(44:36):
you know, outside of the school, or not show up
to the things. And that really hurt my parents. I
could imagine they didn't have the skills to be my coach,
like they didn't have the parenting kind of stuff that
we write the people write about today, And so then
I would get my parents giving me shit, like not
just shit, but they'd be like, you know, you're you're

(44:56):
so you're ashamed of us. All we want to do
is helpful to you. And I was writing cotton all
three right in the middle of all three of those things. Fuck,
I mean, no, wonder it fucked me up?

Speaker 2 (45:08):
Yeah right, yeah, what are you thinking?

Speaker 1 (45:12):
Right?

Speaker 2 (45:12):
Now, buddy, I just think I want to cry. Yeah,
why Why Just.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
A little bit of empathy, you know, Yeah, a little
bit of empathy to why and to that kid, you know.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
Mm hmm. We gotta love him every day. We gotta
love that little boy every day. I also think that's
why you're so good at what you do, because you
see the little boys and little girls and other people
whatever their version of the eyes on and the bullies
ripping them off. You get that really well, yeah, thank you.
That's a real honor man, because I know when I'm
blessed to go to any event that you're doing or

(45:48):
going to your house, I go, see, no, boy, this
is you're really blessed man being this good company.

Speaker 1 (45:55):
It's gonna be fun. Yeah, it's not gonna be fum
into a big event a couple of days.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
Couple of days, you know.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
And again it's to me, it's easy to I call
it relaxing in the gravity, you know. Great. What I'm
trying to get people to do is just be them,
you know. And the setup to get somebody to be
them is when when my heart energy makes other people

(46:26):
calm down enough to not be judged, to not feel
judged to not feel, you know, to feel feel capable
of stretching themselves into that vulnerability. And once you get
one person showing up that way, and I usually do
it for myself, you know, like I will you know,
the exercise. It's like I asked people, like, what's really

(46:48):
going on in your life right now that you're struggling with?
What a crazy thought that people would actually tell you?
And it is totally doable. You know, you give people
long to show up as the master simple question, right,
you know, ask a simple question, but then answer it yourself.
You got to set it up. If I just asked,

(47:09):
what's what's everyone struggling with? You would get an intellectual answer, right, great,
But if I.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
Deliver my strugg well, it's a different version of drunk
to drunk, trauma survivor trauma survivor business person, business person? Right,
how about the person who's watching this and going, yeah, Frosey,
you're the fucking master networker, Like, I'm just scared of
crowd and to go to the coffee place here and
introduce myself to a fellow employee, walk somebody who you know.

(47:34):
You talk about networking, you talk about getting out of
here comfort zone. Somebody that doesn't maybe have the skill
set small steps for people. Can you walk them through it?

Speaker 1 (47:44):
Please? I will. Those are what I call high return practices,
and can give you a few practices. But again, I
think I want to go back to my core belief,
which is it's about other people. Don't think you can
do this yourself. The ability for you to get out
of your comfort zone and into a very difficult situation.
You need a wingman or a wingwoman. The wingman or

(48:07):
the wing woman in this case is somebody who will.
You know, if I went into a bar when I
was single, I could, you know, I could schmooze, I
could flirt, I could do whatever. But the one person
that I looked at that I was like, wow, there's
something special there. I was so incapable of walking up

(48:28):
and talking to that person. But with a wingman, you
got that courage. Sometimes they'd walk over with you. You'd
both walk over. Maybe maybe that person would go over
and say, Hey, see that person over there, that person
over there thinks you're cute. You want to talk to them?
I mean, like whatever, it is like a wingman. A
good wingman is somebody who can turn your life around.
And we need that in our lives. And sometimes I said,

(48:50):
you get Sometimes you have to pay for them. You
can buy a coach, a therapist. Sometimes you sign up
for it like you go to alan On or some
group a men grow prayer breakfast exactly, you know, and
sometimes you over time you create it for yourself. But
we need others, that's the bottom line.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
God need others.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
And interesting enough, the same thing I do for teams.
So here we are, we're sitting on a team at work,
and I don't think about them as my lifelines. I
don't think about them as my co elevators. You know,
I get my job done, you're getting your job done.
We're plugging it in, we're doing this stuff. It's like
all of a sudden, if you can flip that to

(49:30):
being a different social contract, we're gonna lift each other up,
We're gonna not let each other fail, et cetera. Game changer.
So it's the same advice across different dimensions.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
You know, Beautiful, I'm gonna move gears a little bit.
Let's i'd like you to talk about your dear friend
who passed recently in Las Vegas. You started a foundation
and his name. I think it's an incredible story to
tell and what you learn there and what you're doing there,
if you don't mind, thank you.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
So when I had written every I heard that there
was a company in Las Vegas that had my book
on a wall in a frame and that they were
giving it away to people who would do tours of

(50:18):
the company. And I'm like, wait a second, first of all,
tours of the company, what do you mean tours of
the company. Yeah, Apparently this company was so unique in
its culture and the way it did work that people
came and took tours to see what they were doing.
And the company was called Zappo's Shoes. And what they
had done is they had taken an old school call

(50:41):
center company e commerce selling shoes online. And this guy
who was one of the co founders, Tony, she said,
I want to prove that if you love on a
group of people, and you give them permission and encouragement
to love on each other, that we could create a

(51:02):
level of employee experience that would that would flow out
to customers, and customers would be disproportionately more loyal through
this culture. And he did it, and he did it.
It was iconic, and he wrote a book on it.
Called happiness delivered, and he unfortunately was struggling with his

(51:30):
own demons. And during the pandemic, when we were all
locked up and locked away, Tony started a downward spiral
emotionally for himself and JULTI culminated in his death during
the pandemic. And when when I heard about it, after

(51:54):
I literally got up off the floor, I decided that
I was going to start the Tony Share Award. And
I don't think anybody could fill Tony's shoes, but maybe
thousands of other entrepreneurs and leaders who were looking to

(52:18):
elevate humans in the workplace in crazy ass radical ways
and redefine work that would not only change work, but
would change society. That we're going to find those people
and we're going to bring them together, and they're going
to serve each other. This community will share its best
practices and elevate each other. But then we'll create onlookers.

(52:40):
Next Tuesday, Monday night and Tuesday I fly to New
York for the gathering of the Tony Share Award, where
I have eighty of the most prominent heads of HR
and sios technology officers of the largest companies talking about

(53:00):
how their partnership is changing the workplace in society, all
in Tony's honor and name. So yeah, No, I think
what Tony did for me, he was an investor, he
was a friend, he was a confidante. What he did
for me and what he did for society is something

(53:21):
that I just want to make sure it doesn't dissipate
into the myst like came a lot and you know,
I let me just pause on that. There's legacy is
a funny thing. Yeah, Like I think many of us,
particularly many of us of success, we get twisted in,

(53:43):
you know, as Tony Robbins. When I would go to
his events, got to know Tony really well, we'd talk
about significance, right, and you know what is driving you?
And significance is a big driver for a lot of people.
What are they thinking of me? What do they think
of me? And I think legacy is often is often

(54:08):
thought of as a way to continue to live, but
I think sometimes it's offered as a way to continue
to live, to be continue to be thought of. And
I'm not sure that's the healthiest way to think about
legacy versus the way I've tried to think about it,

(54:28):
which is how do I live leave the greatest footprint
on this planet. If God gave me a set of capabilities,
how do I be of greatest service with those capabilities?
You know, it causes me to do crazy things like,
you know, running around the world trying to serve a
country on the other side of the world that takes me,

(54:50):
you know, like a day and a half to get there. Yeah,
I just want to and and I think some of
it probably goes back, as I said, some of it
probably goes back to wanting to continue to prove to
myself that I'm worthy, that I'm worthy. But in the meantime,
I don't think I don't think anyone's gonna fault me

(55:12):
from trying to be of service in a radical way.

Speaker 2 (55:14):
Amen, buddy, you never will stop that. It's unacceptable to
stop that. Speaking of our our beautiful brother Tony Robbins,
it's so funny. I was just thinking about him while
you're talking what's the greatest What's what's the best thing
you've learned from brother Tony?

Speaker 1 (55:26):
What I just said a second ago, probably and that
what is the tape that's constantly playing in the back
of your head that's driving your actions? And and what
are those that what are those tapes that really need
to be shifted, Like, what are they thinking of me?
M that's got a shift, that's got a shift. Yeah,

(55:50):
that was for me. He has a wonderful scenario that
he goes through and a date with destiny and a
number of other discourses that and by the way, I
put him on my list of one of the ten
things that have shifted my life.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
Yeah, no question, Yeah, yeah. Other mintors that have had
great impact on you. Who besides that, the generous woman
at the golf course, you know?

Speaker 1 (56:21):
Prior to uh, well, there was a guy who I
met when he was an open heart surgeon and my
first husband and I were out to dinner with him
one night and his wife and he got beaped that
he had to go and like replace a person's heart

(56:42):
that night.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
And I got to follow and observe that whole thing
was just amazing, And he and I became very good friends.
And one of the things that I've always said is
I had so admired his love for his wife and
so admired her commitment and partnership with him, the two

(57:07):
of them. He ultimately became a very famous doctor, and
it was all because of the work that his wife
did in the early stage helped him realize that he
should create a series of books called You the Owner's Manual.
Before any of us was talking about longevity or anything,
he was. And then as a result, Oprah figured out

(57:29):
that this guy was special and brought him on her show.
He ultimately had his own show. His name was.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
Doctor oz Oh. Wow Wow.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
And I know a lot of people may or may
not agree with his politics, but behind the scenes, and look,
and I'm I don't think it's If you read my
early books, you see a lot of the relationships that
I had with people like the Clintons and bomb in
the early days, et cetera. So it's probably not surprising

(57:58):
to folks that I may not I've been a Trump fan.
But I but I. But you know what I did.
I went I Cale, and I flew down to Florida
during the during the election, and I had dinner with
Mehmeta Lisa for the sole purpose of I wanted them
to try to convince me that this guy was okay,

(58:22):
like I was.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
I was.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
Again, I think it's just I wanted to be a secret.
It's like, here, here are two people that I admire
and respect who I love their love, I care for
them as people, and I wanted them to convince me
that this guy was okay and he wasn't going to
do the thoughts, the things that I had had in
my head that were going to be done with his presidency.
You know, I just I do feel that that politics

(58:47):
has become so divisive and so lacking any empathy or
desire to listen. Like I grew up in an era
when Reagan and Tip O'Neill would battle it out and
then have drinks together. You know, I like, I want

(59:11):
to understand other people's points of view, and I want
to I want to have I want to Anyway, I
was just on another podcast and they asked me the
question if if you were called by the chief, the
new chief of staff, to coach the cabinet, the new

(59:33):
cabinet being formed, would you do so and what would
you do? Ironically, I wrote an article about this for
the Biden cabinet. I wrote an article in Fast Company
magazine that described what I would do to make the
cabinet co elevate. Because the cabin is a bunch of
individuals working for themselves in their own areas, there is

(59:54):
no commitment across the finish line together, and they certainly
don't have a commitment with the hill. You take a
look at the government and how it works in silos
that are divisive and constantly embattled across party lines, when
in reality we should be on one team trying to
make the country better and trying to serve the people.
And that should be true of companies, that should be

(01:00:16):
true of governments. Yeah, so I would. I would serve
any government to try to help them, you know, level
up to correlevate.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
Okay, routines, I know you very well. You're like me.
Talk about your workouts, diet, meditation, What keeps you being
able to get on planes travel around the world.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
Yeah, every day that I can, I work out. So
you know, yesterday I left my mom in Pittsburgh and
was moving out here. Traveling out here there was no
NonStop flight. You had to go to Chicago. You got here,
my boys were at home. I needed to do some decorating.

(01:00:58):
So tomorrow, yesterday I can get a chance to work out.
But every other day I make sure that I work
out only when it's unfeasionable, feasible to do it. That's
number one. Number two, I say gratitudes every morning. So
every morning I wake up, I always wake up fifteen

(01:01:21):
minutes before I need to put on snooze, and then
that fifteen minutes right a lie in bed and I
focus on the three things that I'm most grateful for
that right there in the moment. And I'm never in
my life allowed to repeat two things. So, yeah, you
have to find something your three new things you're grateful
for that you've never shared before. And not difficult, not

(01:01:44):
difficult when you get into the attitude about right on
that is that yours attitude of gratitude or is that Tony's.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
I think that might be Tony's and I think Tony
stall from somebody in recovery.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
Yeah, I'm sure many things have. And then the second
thing I do in three things I'm great full four
and then three things that in that day I'm looking
forward to on that day. So it could be a
shitty day that I'm that I've got a bunch of
stuff I don't want to do, but then I'll find
the three things I'm looking forward to. And I think

(01:02:13):
that's a powerful ritual. I do that every day. I
don't meditate. I wish I did. Maybe I call this
my meditation. Yeah, you know it's a it's a verbal meditation.
It's I certainly from a diet perspective, you know, I
try to keep my weight appropriate and I don't eat,

(01:02:34):
you know, too much crap. I have found that as
a wrestler most of my life, I know how to
feel my weight. So like if I'm five pounds overweight,
I feel it right and I know how to get
it back in Chuck, It's amazing how these peptides that
are coming along now, like like ozembic et cetera. It's

(01:02:57):
gonna be game changing for the world. I don't know
why people are shitting all over the uh, the the
the the idea that we're going to have some some
medical support in getting weight loss under control. You look
at where I just came back from Pittsburgh and I
went shopping at Walmart.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
A lot of big folks there.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
There's a lot of big folks there at folks, And
I can't wait until these individuals find a path to
help all right.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
All in with this, buddy, you and I have both
known worked with billionaires, big artists, a lot of interesting
people that are miserable. What what's the key to happiness? Keith.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
You know, for me, it's one day at a time
loving myself, right, and that's.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
That's big star with self love.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
Yeah, it's very difficult, that's I would say, it's got
to be. I remember going to my first aahuasca retreat
and and they were talking about this idea of self
love and I literally raised my hand at a with
a group of maybe forty other individuals that were at
this retreat, maybe was thirty, and I said, you know,

(01:04:05):
I'll be honest, I have no idea what you're talking about.
I don't think I've ever loved myself, and I don't
even know how to approach it. I don't know where
I would go. And I said, if any of you
truly loves yourself, could you come and help me, like,
let me know what the path is for you. And

(01:04:27):
you know, I think that if I think it's a journey,
and it's a journey, I don't think that I am.
I'm not in love with myself as much as I'm
in love with my partner, but I'm in love with
myself enough that I can be in love with my partner.
And it's all the basic steps, all the simple steps

(01:04:48):
that you talk about. I actually think that if you,
you know, follow the Dalai Lama's wisdom, the twelve steps
are God's greatest gift to humanity in this century. And
I feel like you should, all of us should follow
the twelve steps as a basic way of living. You know,

(01:05:10):
I've been encouraging you for years to write that book.

Speaker 2 (01:05:13):
Well I had. This is my twelve Step book. Yeah,
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
My intention was to make you get out there and
help all of us, you know, following those beautiful twelve
steps of awakening.

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
So yeah, time man, Thank you for making time today, buddy.
This is special. This is really, really, really special.

Speaker 1 (01:05:33):
You say that to all the girls.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
The Sino Show is a production of iHeart Podcasts, hosted
by me Cina McFarlane, produced by pod People and twenty
eighth av Our. Lead producer is Keith Carlack. Our executive
prouser is Lindsey Hoffman. Marketing lead is Ashley Weaver. Thank
you so much for listening. We'll see you next week.