January 15, 2025 • 59 mins
On this episode Seano McFarland interviews Mercedes Coffman, a licensed marriage and family therapist specializing in trauma and addiction recovery. Mercedes shares her
journey from moving to the U.S. from Suriname at 15 to becoming a therapist with over a
decade of experience. She discusses her unexpected but fulfilling internship at CryHelp,
a nonprofit organization aiding addicts and alcoholics, and her approach to therapy, which includes addressing codependency, the importance of a sense of purpose in recovery, combating love bombing, and connecting with one's inner child. Mercedes also highlights the significance of having a higher power, nurturing self-worth, and maintaining a balance between structure and liberation.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
There's a thin line between making someone feel safe and
not letting them get too close to where they forget
where they end in where you start.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
People feel safe with you because they know that you
have a story. You had to make your own fucking clothes,
and you figured it out.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
For our next session, bring a picture of your four
year old self and then look at that kid, and
then I want you to tell me if you would
inflict the same torture upon that child that you do
to yourself. There's plenty of times that I cried in
my car when someone relapsed or client I had been
working with passed away. But I had to learn that
I can't save them. So when they're doing well, it's
(00:37):
not because of me, it's because of them.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Welcome back to the SINO Show.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I'm your host Cina McFarlane. Today's guest is Transforming Capital
t lives and mental health and addiction Recovery. She's a
licensed marriage and family therapist specializing in try I'm an addiction,
helping families heal with a multicultural background over decade of experience,
(01:08):
she also teaches future therapists at Woodbury University. It's my
pleasure to welcome my colleague Mercedes Kaufman to the show.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Welcome, thank you, thank you. I'm glad to be here
real Ques and I can't wait to get into some
great conversations.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
We're going to get into it. First off, tell folks
where you're from. That's a and how did you end up?
Probably start a cry Help start there.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
So I was born in South America, in Surinum, Surinum,
South America, which is a very small country right above Brazil.
We speak Dutch, which I think a lot of people
assume that I would speak Spanish, but I speak Dutch.
I moved here with my mother when I was fifteen.
It was just her and I. My father is still there.
(01:52):
We still have great contact with him as well. And
then my two loves were psychology and the mind. So
psychology the mind and fashion. I love fashion too, so
I kind of merged the two in undergrad doing both
fashion and psychology. But I really fell in love with
the psychology tract, so I continued that and I went
(02:14):
into grad school at Pepperdine where I completed clinical psychology
as Masters in Marriage and Family Therapy. And so then
my internship started at cry Help, which is where I
fell in love in love with working and treating people
with addiction.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Right tell people what cry Help is and what an
incredible learning ground for you?
Speaker 1 (02:35):
What was this? Yes, so I had no intentions of
working in the field of addiction. However, there were no
other To be completely transparent, there were no other internships
available at the time once I graduated grad school, and
cry Help was the only one that was available now.
Cry Help, for those of you who don't know, is
a phenomenal non profit organization that works to help addicts
(02:59):
and alcoholics recover. It's an inpatient and outpatient program and
the moment I stepped foot in that place, I had
the intention of only being there for one semester ended
up being five years because I fell in love with
the people and I had no experience working with addicts
and alcoholics. I am not necessarily an addict and alcoholic myself,
(03:22):
but just the humanity, the vulnerability to transparency in the
staff there, because ninety nine percent of the staff at
cry Help were in recovery as well, and I just
felt at home and comfortable, and seeing the pain and
trauma of the clients at cry Help made me realize
that I want to specialize in the expertise of working
(03:45):
with addicts and alcoholics. So that was where my love
started for treating and helping people.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
What I love about you in a salon, we got
to talk about your mad design aesthetic because you make clothes, right, Yes,
can we just talk about that just for a second
and then we'll get into work here. It's incredible what
you do. You're very humble, but tell the folks about
some of your magic. Leah, I am.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
A creative at heart. I am a very lively person.
I think I have a very lively inner child, and
I try to keep her alive at all costs. I've
always been creative and drawing and painting and fashion has
always been something that I've been so infatuated with. It's
also a great way of emotional expression. So for me
(04:31):
learning how to make clothes myself, especially at a young age,
come in here as an immigrant, not being able to
afford some high end and design or clothing, but just
staring at these windows of these great beautiful dresses and
outfits and saying, I want to learn how to make it.
And so I asked the guy in the mall one
(04:53):
time if he could teach me how.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
To sew, how old were you then?
Speaker 1 (04:56):
I would say seventeen, sixteen, seventeen, and he said you
could intern for me making clothes. I was getting paid,
I think fifty cent a shirt to sew his shirts
for him, but I didn't care because I loved it.
I got to learn, and I think I've always been
so open minded to learn and be a student of
everything and anything. And he taught me how to sew.
(05:19):
I didn't go to school for fashion. I learned from
him and I just started making my own clothes and
I loved it. Ever since I made my own wedding dress,
I've made dresses. It became a business when I didn't
have my legal papers yet come in as an immigrant,
and it served a great purpose and it still is
very near and dear to my heart.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
One of the reasons why I think you're so successful
with clients, particularly it's a rare exception where somebody is
not an addict who can be so successful with addicts
is I think your compassion and that people feel safe
with you because they know that you have a story
like you didn't just you know, end up a pepperdine
like you had a make your own fucking clothes, and
(06:01):
you figured it out.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Can you talk to me about that.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
I agree. I think that my clients could connect with
the saying of suffering breeds compassion. I think that it's
so powerful because I am extremely compassionate to people who
are suffering. And that's not because I had the most
traumatic life per se, but because when I first moved here,
(06:27):
I did have to figure things out as an immigrant
on my own. I didn't get scholarships and grants or
financial aid. My mother worked really hard and multiple jobs
to help my schooling, and I never took any of
it for granted, and I worked day and night, studied
day and night. And I just think that I have
(06:49):
such a weak spot in my heart for the underdog.
I always have been because I think I was the underdog.
I never was, you know, the popular girl. Always kind
of been the more introverted, quiet underdog. And because of that,
I connect very deeply to wounded people. And again, I
(07:10):
also because I was born in a family of workaholics,
I think I knew what it felt like not really
having people who had time to listen, which is why
I became the therapist who listens to others who need
to be heard.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
So that's kind of a rough group down there. Sometimes
I'm sure they were lining you up. I'm sure they're like,
damn sith, you know, like how did you work with
all that? What was your secret sauce there and disarming them?
Speaker 1 (07:41):
And yeah, well yeah with in cry Help in particular.
I think that for me it was of course, I
had to learn how to navigate working with you know,
some people had just been incarcerated, came out of prison,
and I had to learn boundaries first and foremost, being
a woman, had to learn boundaries that you know, it's
(08:03):
a very intimate field and you get to have intimate
conversations with people, and I think there's a thin line
between making someone feel safe and not letting them get
too close to where they forget where they end in
where you start. And so I had to learn how
to set boundaries, but also how to really pour my
(08:24):
heart into the recovery process, you know, Like there's plenty
of times that I cried in my car when someone
relapsed or client I had been working with passed away
and overdosed. But I had to learn that, you know,
I can't save them, So when they're doing well, it's
not because of me, it's because of them. And if
they're not doing well, it's also not because of me,
(08:46):
it's because of them. And so I learned how to
empower people and not try to just save and fix them.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
I love that. I love that.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Well, you know, you work with thousands of individuals there,
what were some of the key's to successful people got
long term recovery? Looking at kind of your case load there, I.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Think that if I were to look at the cases
that really ended up being success stories or clients that
till this day will still come into my classes and
speak about their recovery, I would say, first and foremost,
the longer you stay in treatment, the higher your chances
of success. I've noticed because just like a person's addiction
(09:31):
didn't grow overnight and their habits, their recovery is not
going to just take seven days or fourteen days. Now.
I understand that not everybody has insurance or the right
resources to stay longer, but the beauty of the recovery
field is that there's always someone willing to take people
under their wing. AA meetings, NA meetings, and that's what
(09:52):
I love about this field. It's not like you know,
regular insurance companies where you need to always have money
in order to recover. This field is filled with people
who are willing to help. Even if you don't have
a dime, you know this, You can help plenty people.
So I think that I would say the longer, the better.
I also would say having a sense of purpose. Another
(10:14):
thing I've noticed is recognizing why they were using to
begin with. I think that's where therapy is effective, is
getting an addict or an alcoholic to know why did
you start using, and not to stay there, but to
heal from it so that we could find better cop
and mechanisms instead of the destructive ones.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Right on, Oh beautiful, Okay, I have a lot of
clients that have the term bad pickers.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
See, this is where I think you really thrive.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I think this is where, honestly, I think you're one
of the best in the country on your opinions and
expertise on this. Let's talk about chasing emotionally unavailable people.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Can we just go there?
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Yes? Okay, yes, I often talk about this in my field.
Seems to have become a sort of expertise because I'm
faced with so many men and women who deal with
this not just an addiction, but the idea of having
a bad picker. Because a lot of us had unavailable parents,
and chasing an emotionally unavailable person usually always stems back
(11:18):
to an emotionally unavailable parent, whether one are both, because
you'll only chase what feels familiar, and if you didn't
have that childhood experience or early essential year experience, something
in you will say this hurts too much. My self
worth is too high to tolerate this. And so a
(11:39):
lot of people who chase emotionally unavailable people were once
wounded children who did not have an emotionally available parent,
and so it's familiar to chase that, and they tend
to people please and hope that this person will one
day validate their worth and value the way that their
parents should have.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Right on. Okay, so what are some of the flags
you warn your folks to be like, listen, you got
to look out for this. What are some of the
key Mercedes flags that you.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Know emotionally unavailable people? Yeah, I would say one of
the flags for emotionally unavailable people is people who don't
feel comfortable talking about their emotions, who cannot even know
what they're feeling. There's a lot of people who are
not comfortable with their vulnerability. So even on the first
date asking them, Hey, what are your fears? You know,
(12:33):
a simple question like that will be very tough for
an emotionally unavailable person to answer because it requires a
level of vulnerability to talk about your fears. I think
another one is how do you deal with conflict? Right,
emotionally unavailable people tend to avoid conflict. They do not
like dealing with it. They either will retreat, they will
(12:54):
remove themselves, distance themselves avoided, or use substances. And so
I think emotional availability is the ability to sit with
your emotions, know what you're feeling, and also be able
to sit with your partner's emotions and not need to
escape theirs or your own emotions.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
All right on, beautiful, Okay, could you please explain to
the audience what love bombing is.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Yes, that's another big one in our field. Love Bombing
is anytime a person is extremely excessive with their compliments
or their gestures of love and care or desire for
you in a very short period of time. So you
meet someone on the first date, by the second date,
(13:41):
they're already professing that they might be falling in love
with you, or you're the most beautiful woman they've ever seen.
Or the most handsome man they've ever seen, and they
want to have children with you and start a family
with you, all within less than two months. And so
this love bombing is highly addicting. I mean talk about
addiction and recovery, and so a lot of wounded people
(14:03):
fall for love bombing very easily. I mean, it feels good.
And we have to really be honest with ourselves that
love bombing, although it has a negative connotation, a lot
of us are wounded and long for that. We desire
for someone to come with that intensity that we never
felt our whole lives. And so when someone comes and
(14:25):
injects us with all this adoration and admiration, we immediately
sniff it up like a line of coke and go, wow,
this feels so good. And that's where addiction and codependency starts.
And it's very, very difficult for people to heal from
love bombing once they get hooked on it.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Why it's such an important thing to learn how to
have tools to deal with this because if you're prey
to love bombing, when love bombing stops, that's when people
go out.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Right yes, Because if you think about love bombing increases
our dopamine levels. Dopamine is in every drug you could imagine.
So love bombing is the equivalent of the methamphetamines, the cocaine, stimulants, coffee,
anything in intensity. And so imagine a person's brain getting
(15:19):
hooked on that high level of dopamine and then now
all of a sudden it is bam, overnight removed. The
drop in dopamine will lead to immediate depressive symptomology. And
so that's what we need to not take for granted,
or we need to be more serious about. Is looking
at a person who has gotten used to love bombing
(15:41):
needs the same recovery and the patience of us are
from us that a person who was a cocaine addict would,
because the dopamine is just as intense and the recovery
will probably be just as difficult for that person.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
So what do you say to a client who's like
a weekend of dating the person and they're getting love
bomb and say, how do I handle this?
Speaker 3 (16:04):
What's your counsels to them?
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I would say, if a person is too sure of
you in a very short amount of time, pump the brakes.
You don't necessarily have to walk away from this person.
But verbalize that you want to take it slowly. I
always tell people get to know a potential dating partner
(16:26):
in different environments, around their friends, around their family, how
are they at their job if you have access to
those environments, see them in those environments before, because anything
could be performative when it's just the two of you
and when there's intimacy. But when you expand a person's
(16:47):
circle and you really get to see them in their
actual environments, that's when you really start seeing the inconsistencies
of what they show you versus how they actually are.
So I would say, if it feels too good, too quickly,
slow down, because it most likely is love bombing and
it's based on addictive patterns and not so much on
(17:07):
actual compatibility.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
I love the council about seeing them in other Environsment's
so good because what happens. I believe when you get
somebody to say pump the brakes, they're either gonna apologize,
go my god, you're right, or they're gonna turn on you. Yes,
there's no one between right, yes, and you really kind
of find fail what their nature is.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Yes, that's also another way to see if someone is
love bombing you. If they get offended by you saying,
pump the brakes, you gotta love bother, you might be
dealing with a love bomber or a narcissist, and so
you really kind of want to assert yourself and set
those boundaries early on to see how this person deals
with boundaries. That's a way to detect and assess if
(17:47):
someone is healthy and has been doing their healing work,
or if someone is still in a wounded narcissistic pattern.
And if that's the case, you probably should pack up
and run hard.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Hard. Okay, let me ask ask you this.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
This is something else that I love you know, reading
about and listening to you talk about. Why is abandonment
such a powerful wound?
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Oh? Because abandonment it blinds us to so many things.
I think that an abandonment wound is probably one of
the most harmful wounds that a person could experience, because
it could either lead to very intense codependency where people
(18:31):
will stay because they're so deadly afraid of ever being
left alone again. It will make them tolerate abuse much
more likely to do so even at the expense of
life threatening or even death. And so abandonment wounds almost
always lead to the person who was once abandoned to
(18:51):
abandon themselves. Right. So, when you deal with someone who
has been abandoned in childhood or somewhere where it was
very critical for them not to be abandoned, you really
have to do the healing work prior to them getting
into relationships because by default they already will prioritize relationships
(19:13):
with others or prioritize other people over themselves. Because I
have never worked with someone who has an abandonment wound
who has not abandoned themselves.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Amen, So talk about some of the techniques you help
people with the handle these wounds and get healthier around them.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yes. So, one of the things I do to get
people to reconnect to themselves is I work with them
on reconnecting to their inner child. A lot of people,
especially once we get in adulthood, we have less compassion
for ourselves. You know, we say, oh, i'll sleep later,
I'll get up earlier. Oh I could deal with the
pain or the heartbreaks not that bad. We kind of
(19:50):
minimize problems in adulthood and we feel as though we
should be able to handle it. However, when I tell
people for our next session, bring a picture of your
four year old self, preferably by himself or herself, and
then look at that kid, and then I want you
to tell me if you would inflict the same torture
upon that child that you do to yourself. And that's
(20:12):
when the walls come down and the person goes, oh
my god, I have been very abusive to myself. I
wouldn't do that to this kid. I wouldn't call this
kid fat or ugly. I wouldn't put them in the
care of an abuser or a toxic person. And so
I have them every morning look at that picture. I
tell them to put them on their phone screen or
their log screen, and every morning I have them look
(20:35):
at that kid and say, you're safe. Now, I'm going
to protect you and I'm not going to put you
in harm's way. And that's how reconnection starts because now
they could relate it to something that looks so innocent
and pure, and they all of a sudden develop compassion
for self. But you have to first put it in
(20:56):
the form of a child, and then they start eventually
start having that compassion for themselves as an adult as well.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Beautiful.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
You work, you know with a lot of people with
a lot of sexual trauma, a lot of PTSD, right,
how do you create like a safe space for them?
And what is somebody newly in recovery that having these
issues kind of walked through early stages of recovery.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
For that, I would say the first thing is to
always be a judge reezone, making a person feel like
there's nothing you could tell me that will shock me,
There's nothing you could tell me that will make me
look at you differently, There's nothing you could tell me
that I probably haven't heard before. And we'll go through
(21:41):
this together, at your speed, at your timing, whenever you're
ready to. And I think that the more authentic a
therapist is or a healer is in a session, the
safer the zone becomes for the patient or the client.
And so I think, whether it's PTSD or sexual trauma,
abandonment wounds, I think I always just try to connect
(22:04):
with the person first. You know, what are you into?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
You know?
Speaker 1 (22:08):
I like that outfit, and I find genuine things to
connect with them on. Once they start laughing and we
just connect, I said, look, I know you're probably nervous
because it is a very nerve wracking process once you
first start therapy or healing or recovery. But I just
want you to see this as a conversation with a person,
(22:28):
and before you know it, the ice breaks and the
person is ready to kind of dive deeper.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
And you know, like the question I asked you with
people in recovery around addiction, people recovering from sexual trauma
from PTSD, what are some of the keys of success
that you've seen?
Speaker 3 (22:45):
What are some of the secret sauce that they've been doing?
Do you see?
Speaker 1 (22:49):
I think consistency in their healing. I think that people
who have just like in recovery, they have a program,
you know. I think having a routine that keeps a
person grounded in their healing is essential to sustaining that
healing and that recovery. So I think the moment a
person unplugs from that, just like you know, in recovery,
(23:12):
we always say the attict could still come out, depending
on you know, whether your program is strong or your support.
So I think in anybody that I've worked with, what
I've noticed some of the key to success is that
staying surrounded by the right support and staying plugged in
in the right program, whatever that program may be for
that person.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Right on.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Okay, So what do you say to the husband or
the partner, or the moms, the kids, and they call
you up all the time and say, Mercedes, like, you know,
he won't get sober, he can't get sober, you know,
or he relapsed again.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
What's your counsel to them.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
My counsel to them is, I'll work with the client
that you need to work on yourself because loved ones
of addicts and alcoholics become addicted to the addict or
the alcoholic, and so they have to work on their
own recovery as well. They have to find a way
(24:10):
to connect to their lives as well, because most of
the partners, children, or parents of addicts and alcoholics I've
worked with have become so obsessed about the addict or
the alcoholic that they completely abandoned and neglected themselves. And
so my advice to them is always, let the professionals
(24:31):
work with the addict and alcoholic and let's have faith
that they're doing the right thing. But in the meantime,
it's essential for you to work on yourself, to heal
yourself and to recover from being so obsessed and addicted
to this other person.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
A lot of times they don't like to hear that
we don't understand the problem is no, right, it's.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Absolutely they don't wonder that. No, no. And that's why
I like working with addicts and alcoholics because by the
time they come to treatment, they know they have a problem.
The loved ones of the addicts and the alcoholics have
never thought that they're part of a problem. So for
(25:13):
them there was always an identified patient. So when I
then say, hey, look, you have issues you have to
work on as well, it is oftentimes shocking. It's like, wait, no,
but don't you know what he's been doing or what
she's been doing. And it's like, no, no, I know that,
and he knows that too. But you have to look
at what you've been doing and what addictive cycle you
(25:34):
are in, so that you could recover from it, so
that when he or she comes home, you're not wrapped
up in this codependent pattern that's going to make him
go use again.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Right on beautiful. Why did people stay in dysfunctional relationships?
Speaker 1 (25:49):
So many great loaded questions do they Well, there's several
different reasons. I think Familiarity I've noticed is the most
common one. People stay in relationships because one, it's familiar
to their upbringing, or the people they were around at
an early age. So if it's chaos that you were
(26:10):
raised around, or dysfunction or abandonment, you're much more comfortable
and your nervous system is more familiar with that, so
you'll tolerate it more. I think secondly, people who have
low self worth. We only tolerate people who reflect the
way that we perceive ourselves. So if I consider myself
(26:32):
of high value and worth, I will not tolerate a
person who does not respect and honor that same perspective
that I have about myself. And so the two things
I always work on is healing from childhood wounds and
increasing a person's self worth and value.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
How does a person get better self worth?
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Great question. The first thing is to spend more time
by yourself. When you spend time with yourself, for example,
I have a lot of fun different ways that I
have clients do that. One of them is I have
them explore with fashion. I love fashion, so I find
a way to bring it back into my session. I
have them try on different clothes, you know, different things
(27:15):
that they're not so limited to one particular role or presentation.
I have them break out of the limitations of emotional
expression through fashion, through painting, through art. And then I
also have them go on dates, and they're oftentimes deadly
afraid and embarrassed to do that. But I say, take
yourself out on a date. Go sit in that restaurant
(27:36):
by yourself. Don't worry about who thinks you'll get stood up.
Just sit there and sit through this comfort and just
be with yourself. Most people are so terrified by being
with themselves, which is where I think a lot of
pain keeps getting passed down from generation to generation.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Yeah, ultimately it's about self love, correct, right, Yes, you
got to have the self love, right.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Yes, that's where it all comes from.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
You know, you and I have talked about this last
two or three years. Suicide rates have just been skyrocketing.
Younger people check it out. What are you seeing out there?
What are you you know, what's happening out there? Why
are people so scared and overwhelmed right now? Why are
so many young people checking out?
Speaker 1 (28:26):
In your opinion, I think because the world is unfortunately
increasingly becoming more disconnected. You know, social media is connecting
us more, but personal relationships are becoming more and more disconnected,
and so the parents of these younger people are more disconnected.
You know, the whole thing of a lot of us
were raised by a tribe, by aunts and uncles, and
(28:49):
that is increasingly getting smaller. Then you throw social media
in the mix. Then you throw laptops and iPads and
all these different things in the mix. And so the
parents as well as the kids all are islands. It's
a bunch of islands in one home now. And so
now these children become teens and young adults who feel
(29:11):
so terribly alone, and so suicide oftentimes is just people
feeling as though the pain of being alone is too
much to handle and bear. They do not feel connected
to themselves and they do not feel connected to anybody else,
and so unfortunately that's the issue with this day and age.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
That's great, Yeah, fetanel doesn't help either, No, absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Of course, that's just the way that they check out.
That's just a way of dealing with the loneliness. It's
a means to an end. It's how do I cope
with feeling so disconnected? What could make me feel some
sort of connection to something, feel some kind of emotion.
And so the drug is just kind of almost like
the last resort more so than the problem. The problem
(30:01):
is we have a bunch of disconnected people. That's what
we need to solve. The drug is actually their best friend,
and although it's detrimental and oftentimes deadly to that person,
it's a glimmer of feeling good.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
So I've found out as great satisfaction that you know,
we're developing more younger listeners on the show, like teenagers,
and it really warms my heart. That's great, and it's
interesting who they relate to whatever. And but these issues
that you just spoke about so beautifully, what can you
say to that person right now who's got the real
(30:39):
what I say, the darkness is on you right now,
they're debating shriving beyond this planet anymore.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
What is your counsel to that person?
Speaker 2 (30:46):
What is the first step for somebody who's really every
day struggling whether or not they want to be around?
Speaker 1 (30:53):
I would say, you're here for a reason. That's the
first thing I think that you know. So I've taught
a lot about the journey of conception. I teach a
lot in my classes on how we all got here
and how many things could have went wrong for us
not to be here during conception and the fact that
(31:16):
you are here, the fact that you made it through
the entire intricate process, that you, out of billions and
billions of sperm, were the ones who made it, the
ones who have a purpose to be here. I would say,
you may not know what your purpose is yet, but
I promise you if you just hang on a little
(31:37):
longer and talk to somebody, there are people out there
who care. There are people out there who will connect
you to your purpose. Just do not check out prematurely,
because there is a reason you're here, and there are
other generations who are looking up to you to help
them as well. So that's what I would say. I
(31:59):
think that every single person on this planet has a
purpose right on.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
I love that, And just to as a friendly mind
of the audience, you know, I always tell people because
darkness will tell you not to reach out, It will
tell you don't bother people. But all you have to
do is text help. That's what I tell people that
you don't have to get into it. Just tell somebody
you're scared, you need help. It's the most important thing.
Let's go in a little bit. I'm gonna come around
(32:25):
all the others. Great things you're teaching what's that like
for you and teaching and how long you've been doing
that and kind of your messaging there and yeah, well.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
I love teaching, I do. I feel like it's similar
like therapy. I love connecting with people on a more
intimate level and having intellectual conversations, and my undergrad students
are brilliant young minds. I teach an intro to the
(32:54):
Psychology of Addictions class. I usually teach communication interpersonal communication
to listen better, how to connect better, and then I
also teach a lot of communication courses. I've taken a
break because my private practice has gotten much bigger, but
I've been teaching since two thousand and thirteen, so I
(33:15):
definitely is something at Woodburr University. What I love about
that school is it's small classes. So my classes would
range from twenty to twenty five the most. The capacity
for classes are about twenty five, so each student gets
to really intimately connect with the professors, and the professors
get to really learn from the students and the students
(33:37):
from the professors. So it's not like, for example, you know,
my husband's from Penn State, those classes are massive. I
like smaller, more intimate settings and really reach these people
and impact them so that they could impact other generations
and people around them as well. So I love it.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Wow, beautiful, beautiful. Let me ask you this.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
I've talked to you many times.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
You're always on a high frequency.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
You're always got that beautiful smile, there's always a beautiful light.
And I know you're busy, and I know you're dealing
with life and death every day. How do you maintain
this level of serenity, this level of consciousness, this level
of awareness? You know, can you what's going on over there?
Speaker 1 (34:21):
I think for me, I have a great relationship with
my higher power. I think that for me that consists
of a more spiritual grounding. I love nature. You've been
to my place very much into having peaceful surroundings around me.
(34:42):
I know that for me, balance is very important dealing
in the field that we're in where it could get
very heavy. I prioritize my rest, I prioritize affection, hugs
with my husband, with my dogs. I connect with nature.
I have intimate relationships with the squirrels, and you know this,
(35:04):
the squirrels, the birds. I think that that's what really
keeps me ground it because it puts things in perspective.
It allows me to recognize that even though I could
make a great impact in a session, I'm also just
one of Earth's many inhabitants sharing this with my animal friends.
And so I think that that really, for me personally,
(35:27):
is a very meditative practice that I do every single day.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
I've never been to Bali, but being at your house,
I feel like I visited ball. I mean, what you
created there is really quite something. Do you mind tell
the folks like kind of what you're magical little? I mean,
it's really kind of a special plaze out there.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
I love it. I think we got so blessed in
finding our place. It's surrounded by trees, so we have
about I think twenty eight palm trees. We have about
twenty four fruit trees. So there's papaya, there's lemons, of course,
or and just peaches, nectars, there's berries. We're starting to
(36:06):
do berries. We got apples this this month. We had mangoes.
And so for me, I think just the curiosity that
I get when I go outside and the wonder. Like
I said, my inner child just feels so alive. Coming
from South America, I was raised around nature and fruits
and vegetables, and so for me it is far more
(36:27):
than just a pretty place and a relaxing place. It
is medicine for me, and it's so healing.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
Yeah, I got has spoken there. Truth is spoken there.
You know. It's like you honest see, like a Mary
Poppins thing.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Going on there, like oh, here's a squirrel come on,
and the squirrels come up to you.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Yes, I love it. It's I'm the snow white in
my neighborhood. I'm brown white.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
I am.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Okay, that's good, Okay, what's on your mind right now?
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Now?
Speaker 3 (37:00):
What would you like to talk about?
Speaker 2 (37:01):
What issues you think are important that we're looking at
in the world right now? That you're seeing more and
more that you want to be discussed more, more things
in your practice more, you know, what's coming to mind.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
I think divisiveness is a big one. I think, you know,
going back to that isolation and people being disconnected. I'm
sure you see it. You work with large groups of people,
you travel all over. I think that we have a
don't talk about things that may rock the boat conversations.
And although we should be respectful of different perspectives, I
(37:35):
also think that when we get too far into not
talking about things. That's another reason why we're not connecting
with people because I remember time where people will talk
about their different stances on things, you know, and nobody
would feel as though the relationship was going to end.
(37:56):
And I think now everybody kind of just has to
deal with things on their own, which is kind of
why I think mental health issues are on the rise still,
you know, so, I mean, do you feel like divisiveness
is a big thing now, a huge thing?
Speaker 3 (38:09):
People are too aggressive or too scared?
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Not a lot of them betrain and just once again
in the addiction field, it's just you know, you have
to be Let's talk about triggers, like why do people
go back out and relash?
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Why do you got here?
Speaker 1 (38:24):
I think that a lot of people go back. I
always say it this way, I say that, you know.
And Tony Robbins talks about the six basic human needs,
and I love those six basic human needs because I
apply them to the couples I work with and the
people in recovery. One of them that I consider to
be a trigger that will make a person relapse is
(38:45):
when they no longer feel significant in recovery and they
feel more significant while using or while on distract. So,
for example, an addict who has been on the street
and was the connect and knew how to mix the drugs,
and you know, everybody considered him important in the drug circle,
(39:08):
but now comes home in recovery and his wife has
a system, nobody at the house needs him. He feels
very insignificant. He doesn't have a job, he doesn't contribute.
Guess what significance is one of the most important human
needs that will determine where a person remains. And if
they do not feel significant in a particular environment, they
(39:29):
will stray. It happens with infidelity. If a wife or
a husband does not feel significant in their household, they
will seek it elsewhere. And it's the same in recovery.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Once again, going back to your theme of you got
to have a sense of purpose. Yes, ket, it's sense
of purpose. It's so important. Okay, let's talk about this.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
Then. Why is finding a higher power and recovery so important.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
That's another great one. I think it's about surrendering. I
think a lot of people start using to regain a
sense of control and power, whether it is that they've
experienced extreme trauma or rape or sexual assault or abuse.
And for a lot of clients I've worked with, the
(40:12):
drugs was their way to feel a sense of control again,
and so in recovery, I think it's important to learn
how to surrender of trying to control, and the best
way to do that is to connect with higher power,
something greater than yourself, and not to keep resorting to
your own thoughts and feelings to find solutions for problems
(40:37):
that are not yours to solve.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
So when a client comes into your office, is I
don't know what to believe in. I don't know where
do I start? Mercedes like, fuck, how do I find
this higher power?
Speaker 3 (40:47):
Person?
Speaker 1 (40:48):
I typically and everybody's approach is different. For me, my
approach is to just have a conversation with them about
what they enjoy. Where do you feel most at peace?
Is it the beach? Is it around trees? Is it
around birds? Is it in a church? Make that your
higher power? Make something that makes you feel like you
(41:09):
are calm and your body is surrendering to that environment.
Make that your higher power, and then we'll worry about
the rest later. Because a higher power is not about
what I think it is or you think it is.
It's about what feels like a higher power to a
particular person and that is their choice.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
Beautiful. Oh, I love that.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
I know you love Tony, I you know I do.
How does Tony Robins resonate with young.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
I love Tony Robbins. I've been a huge supporter of
all his teachings. I've shown him in many of my
classes to my students. I think that he is such
a powerful presence and I've never met him. Still waiting
for you to take me there one day. I think
that he has such a powerful presence, but such a
(41:57):
healing presence where he doesn't make you feel like there's
a disconnect between you and him, at least from what
I've seen, feels like just a humble, powerful, healing presence.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
You know.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
One of the things I love about him. It's a
long I just went out there to surprise him, you know.
And he's always so curious. He always wants to learn,
you know, and he's just fascinated. Listen, he just it's
actually today's day five. He's doing date with Destiny. It's
a six day thing. He doesn't need to do it
(42:32):
for the money, he doesn't need to do it. He's
doing it for his love of it, because he knows
the get down is helping other people. He gets so
excited when somebody breaks through, and I know you do too. Yes,
I think that's why you're happy and he can enjoy
your life and talk to the goddamn squirrels. Is because right,
you love when like goes on with people. And also
you know, if it doesn't go on and people die here,
(42:55):
it's just the way it is. It's not a reflection
of your skill set.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Absolutely, and I agree with you. I think what I
love about Tony and you and my work is we
don't turn people away because they can't afford help, you know.
And even Tony, I you know, he's been doing I
think the Facebook stuff, especially during COVID, he did a
lot of Facebook thing that was for free, with giving
(43:20):
so many gems and working with people virtually on how
to help them heal, which this person doesn't have to
do anything for free. But the fact that we love
what we do, which is I think precisely why it's
a sustainable career for people like us, because it doesn't
feel like work. There's plenty of times that I'm like, wait,
(43:41):
there's so many people who forgot to pay like wait money,
and you know, and you have to be in a
place where you really love your field in order to
not check payment every time.
Speaker 3 (43:53):
Yeah, and there's a lot of burnout in our career.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
And it's really, I think comes down because people think
they're trying to save people, and you and I both
know you can't save anybody exactly.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
We just can't.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
I'm not I'm just a middle man. I'm just trying
to drop some truth from light and some compassionate love
on you and help you get past your sad story.
But if I'm trying to save you, then I think
I know it's better an ego and then you know,
it gets a little fucking scary.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Absolutely, But I think that unfortunately, we can't teach that necessarily.
I think that takes time. I think that you've been
in this field for a long time. I've been in
here for quite some time, and I think it's after
trying to save them that we finally go, wait a minute,
(44:41):
there's just no way it's possible. And then we surrender,
you know, we surrender and we go, wait a minute,
that's all ego stuff. We can't save or fix anybody.
We're just here to help and share what we've got,
and you'll take what you could use and what you
don't want, that's fine too.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
Yeah, people are gonna do what they want to do.
They're gonna do what they want to do. Let's talk
about family's healing.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
It's a big component of your work helping families hell helping.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
Can you talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
Yes, I think that in recovery or in any process,
whether it's infidelity or substance abuse, I think the entire
family is affected by a particular person's actions, behaviors, or patterns.
And so I think for me, the reason I love
the Marriage and Family Chat is because we don't just
(45:32):
work on individuals. We work with partners, with families, with siblings,
and so I always say, you know, you need to
be able to zoom in and zoom out for healing
to really really have a great ripple effect, which means
you work with the individual, when then you zoom out
and you work with their entire family. Because the truth
is is that until everybody is willing to change the
(45:55):
narrative that has been circling in the family, chances are
somebody is going to want to pull the dysfunction back out.
And so I think that everybody has to heal in
order for families, and not every family is willing to
do that. That's the hard fact that we should acknowledge to.
Most families are willing to only point the figure at
(46:19):
one scapegoat and say he or she is the problem.
I'm not the problem. And so of course we can't
force families to heal. But if a family is willing,
the chances of healing to actually stick is much higher
in those people than in those who are resistant.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
So what do you say to a client male or female,
or they say, I don't know if I can ever
forgive them for what they've done.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
I said, that's okay, maybe you're not ready yet. I
never force forgiveness. I first meet a person where they're at,
and I say, wherever you're at is where you need
to be, because I'm sure we all know that forgiveness
could help, but there's a reason that person isn't ready
to and I'm here just to find out what the
(47:06):
reasons are and then we'll navigate it together.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
I love that. Why is that put such a smile
on your face when you talk about.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
That, because I think it just reiterates the power of surrendering,
you know, being fluid with the client instead of trying
to do the textbook therapy or the textbook healing of
we should all forgive. Although there's a lot of commonalities
in human beings, we're all very different and we need
(47:35):
to respect and honor the fact that we're all very different.
And so I think kind of taking a more serenity
approach as I'm getting wiser, I think makes my job
a lot easier and my sessions a lot more effective.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
I love that because I think I've been successful. I'm
going to make you classes. I can't stop freebasing. I say, cool,
I don't go. You're gonna die. Yes, they don't want
They'd have heard that all their life. What no one
says is okay, right, okay goes a.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
Long way, yep, because now they have to look at themselves.
But the more that you're going to take responsibility for them,
now they don't have to take responsibility for themselves. You
remove yourself out of the way. Now they're left to
look at themselves. And I've done it with clients too,
and I know it's a risky move. I had a
client who kept relapsing, and you know, I've tried all
(48:29):
the traditional approaches first, and then after a while I
did your approach. I was like, look, let's just be honest.
You want to keep using you love it, You're not
going to stop. This is who you are, this is
what you want to keep doing. And she immediately was like, no,
I don't. I don't love it, you know, and I
kind of just went along with, Well, then she'll be
(48:51):
show me some different exactly because I'm not going to
be the responsible person for you. You have just as much
of a developed frontal lope as I have. I need
you to start learning how to use it, and if
you could use it, then you don't need me. But
I'm not going to enable you to keep that cycle
(49:13):
of helplessness that I know is not true because you're
not helpless.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
I think there's a real art when you say to somebody,
and it's how you say it.
Speaker 3 (49:22):
It's always about tone.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
You know, I'm really kind of getting bored with your
fucking sad story. How do you deliver that message? What's
your expertise with that?
Speaker 1 (49:35):
I love that. I'm typically very assertive with my clients.
This is why connection and rapport is so important. I
make my clients first feel as though I have their
backs and that I want what's best for them, and
once it's all about feeling it out. This is where
mindfulness comes into play. If I feel as though the
relationship is strong enough, then I could say to them, hey, look,
(49:59):
I can't want this more for you than you do.
But of course you can't say that to a person
you just meet the first or second session. But once
the rapport is there, you could absolutely push and challenge
the person. And I tell them the first session, I say, look,
I'm the kind of therapist who challenges their clients. I'm assertive,
I'm very involved. I'm going to give you one hundred
(50:21):
and fifty percent of me, but it's going to feel
challenging and uncomfortable, which means I call you out. My
clients do not think of Mercedes as passive and sweet
right now, but they love me because I am challenging
and I get them to look at themselves.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
Well, I love about you is you're very feminine, but
you're also fucking fierce.
Speaker 3 (50:45):
Have you always had that? Were you just always that way?
Speaker 2 (50:48):
And just like give a look to a brother and
they would know like, okay, I'll shut the fuck up.
Speaker 3 (50:52):
Yes, have you always had that? Yes?
Speaker 1 (50:54):
I am an aires, I'm a fire sign, and I
I am walking and talking fire. You know, I don't burn.
I've learned how to harness it. But I am definitely feisty,
and I have a leadership mentality, and I've always had that,
(51:15):
and so I think that I've been blessed with parents
who allowed me to be my feisty little self. And
so now you know, it works in the fields I'm
in as both as both a professor and a therapist.
You know, I get to lead, but I don't lead
with ego. I lead with make a person the best
(51:36):
version of themselves.
Speaker 3 (51:38):
Why is codependency such a serious affliction.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
Codependency is very dangerous, and I think a lot of
people minimize how detrimental codependency could be because they think
of it as, oh, I'm just dependent on another person,
and of course that is the more simple definition of it.
But a codependent person is a person who who again
going back to abandonment of self, who has abandoned themselves.
(52:04):
They're worth their power, their stands, their voice, and they
have created this correlation that they're worth their emotions and
their well being is dependent on another person. And so
if another person mistreats you, and if that other person
(52:26):
doesn't like you one day or doesn't respect you one day.
I've seen people go into a full on depression and
self sabotaging patterns because they're so dependent on the moods
of another person, and that is very dangerous. If you're
so dependent on another person's wavelengths, you have completely abandoned yourself.
(52:51):
And that is just far too much power to give
another person.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
What are some basic steps of recovery for somebody who's
got your codependency? What are just beginner steps for you
that you try to teach your folks.
Speaker 1 (53:04):
I get them to explore themselves. Who are you? What
do you like? What don't you like? And oftentimes codependent
people might not know what they like and who they are, right,
and so I say, well, what don't you like? They're
more likely to know what they don't like, So we
start with what don't you like? Okay, based on that
list of what you don't like, now we could look
(53:25):
at what's the opposite of what you probably would like.
Then then we start really looking and building an identity
for themselves. Who are you? Based on these things? Based
on your list of what you don't like, we could
detect what your standards are, what your boundaries are. We
could figure out what kind of compatibility is actual compatibility
and not codependency, and so we kind of start building,
(53:48):
establishing and cultivating an identity that they actually could invest
in and spend more time with. But it's no different
than any addiction. And so in codependent relationships, especially when
they're toxic or dysfunctional, distance, just like recovery is essential.
You cannot recover from your codependency if you're still with
(54:09):
this person twenty four to seven, just like you cannot
recover from your drug addiction if you're still using every day.
It doesn't matter how many tools and how many meetings
you attend.
Speaker 2 (54:20):
You know, Tony also is very very big about routines.
You know, I have a very intense morning routine that
I will never go off.
Speaker 3 (54:28):
What are your routines for me?
Speaker 1 (54:29):
It's quite the opposite. What revigorates me is sure. I
have a very specific health regimen where I do my
every morning. I start with warm water with lemon, fresh
ground ginger root, cayenne, pepper, and turmeric. So I make
(54:50):
a shot for me, make one for my husband, and
then it's a workout. I do a workout routine, whether
it's pilates or I run on the treadmill. It's great
for my mood stabilized. And then for me, I balance
routine with liberation. So after I've done the basics of
what my body needs, then I free my mind. So
(55:10):
then I break structure. I'm like, you know what, I
don't want to eat this today. I want to eat
this for breakfast. Or you know what I'm gonna after
my sessions. I'm going to go to the mall. I'm
not going to do what's expected. I'm going to let
my inner child have some fun, right because I think
that sometimes I think we're like those old school scales,
(55:33):
you know, when you go a little too much to
the left or the right, you get off balance. I'm
constantly adjusting between structure, which is the security and liberation
which Tony talks about as well, you know, And I
make sure that I have plenty of fun every single day,
and I have enough structure to sustain the fun that
I want to have for the rest of my life.
Speaker 3 (55:52):
Beautiful, beautiful.
Speaker 2 (55:54):
A lot of people I'm sure ask you, like how
do I get in this filth? Like I want to
help people. I want maybe someday be a psychologist or
a counselor.
Speaker 3 (56:03):
When they ask you, what do you tell them.
Speaker 1 (56:05):
I say, go to school for it. I think it's
an extremely rewarding field. Do it because you want to
do it and you're genuinely curious about psychology or relationships
or recovery, whatever the niche field is that you want
to get into. But don't do it for the money.
The money is great eventually, but your clients need you
(56:28):
to do it for the love of the field. I
think that's where healing happens, and clients are very in
tuned with your intentions in why you're helping them. A
lot of clients have trust issues, and so if you
want to get into this helping field, I would urge
you to follow through on it because we always need
(56:48):
more people in this field. But do it for the
right reasons. Do it because that's where your heart is.
Speaker 3 (56:52):
Oh, beautiful, beautiful. I'll also add, if you're really serious,
go volunteer for a little bit and see if you
actually like it. Yes, go volunteer.
Speaker 2 (57:00):
You're somewhere, some center, something, some treatment center. You don't
see if it actually you.
Speaker 1 (57:04):
Know, absolutely, I mean, and that's why I'm glad grad
schools do internships. You have to do an internship before
you graduate because you don't want to get into this
field because again, it could be very harmful. If you're
not in it for the right reasons. You could steer
a client in a completely different direction and that could
be life and death.
Speaker 2 (57:24):
You know.
Speaker 1 (57:24):
So we want to ensure that people are doing it
to where they'll consider human life as sacred and they
really do the best that they can to help. So
that's what I would say. I say, volunteer, do internships
and really really make sure is this something you naturally
do in your friend's circle and your family circle. Are
you the one who really is intrigued with the mind
(57:46):
and relationships or recovery, then go for it. Follow your
heart and the money eventually will come.
Speaker 2 (57:51):
Let's stay with that. Following your heart. Why is that
so important? You always follow your heart, but not everyone
does that? But why is that so important?
Speaker 1 (57:58):
Because it's the fastest way to sustain anything you want.
I think that if we follow our hearts, we enjoy
what we do and we'll have less regrets and resentments
later on in life.
Speaker 3 (58:14):
Yeah, it's so important. What's your final message to everybody?
Speaker 1 (58:18):
I say, we could all heal, therapy and recovery is
not just for the crazy or the attics, or the alcoholics,
or the sick or the mentally ill. It is aerobics
of the mind and the soul. And we all need that.
We all need to exercise our bodies, we need to
exercise our minds. And so I would say, treat yourself
(58:43):
the end of this year, tomorrow, the beginning of next year.
Treat yourself by healing, by exploring healing practices. It is
the most loving thing you could do for yourself, for
your children, for your parents, for your husbands, for your wives,
for your future families, for your friends. And so I
would say, really spoil yourself, get yourself a great holiday
(59:06):
present or a great New Year's resolution by really exploring
who you are and what you actually want to do
with your life.
Speaker 3 (59:14):
Amen.
Speaker 2 (59:15):
Amen, thank you for being on the show, and say
hi to the Scrolls in the morning.
Speaker 3 (59:20):
Corby William of.
Speaker 1 (59:21):
Course, of course, thank you so much for having me
so you know.
Speaker 2 (59:24):
The Sinal Show is a production of iHeart Podcasts, hosted
by me Cina McFarlane, produced by pod People and twenty
eighth av Our. Lead producer is Keith carlak Our Executive
producer is Lindsey Hoffman, Marketing lead is Ashley Weaver.
Speaker 3 (59:40):
Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week.
There's a thin line between making someone feel safe and
not letting them get too close to where they forget
where they end in where you start.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
People feel safe with you because they know that you
have a story. You had to make your own fucking clothes,
and you figured it out.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
For our next session, bring a picture of your four
year old self and then look at that kid, and
then I want you to tell me if you would
inflict the same torture upon that child that you do
to yourself. There's plenty of times that I cried in
my car when someone relapsed or client I had been
working with passed away. But I had to learn that
I can't save them. So when they're doing well, it's
(00:37):
not because of me, it's because of them.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Welcome back to the SINO Show.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I'm your host Cina McFarlane. Today's guest is Transforming Capital
t lives and mental health and addiction Recovery. She's a
licensed marriage and family therapist specializing in try I'm an addiction,
helping families heal with a multicultural background over decade of experience,
(01:08):
she also teaches future therapists at Woodbury University. It's my
pleasure to welcome my colleague Mercedes Kaufman to the show.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Welcome, thank you, thank you. I'm glad to be here
real Ques and I can't wait to get into some
great conversations.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
We're going to get into it. First off, tell folks
where you're from. That's a and how did you end up?
Probably start a cry Help start there.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
So I was born in South America, in Surinum, Surinum,
South America, which is a very small country right above Brazil.
We speak Dutch, which I think a lot of people
assume that I would speak Spanish, but I speak Dutch.
I moved here with my mother when I was fifteen.
It was just her and I. My father is still there.
(01:52):
We still have great contact with him as well. And
then my two loves were psychology and the mind. So
psychology the mind and fashion. I love fashion too, so
I kind of merged the two in undergrad doing both
fashion and psychology. But I really fell in love with
the psychology tract, so I continued that and I went
(02:14):
into grad school at Pepperdine where I completed clinical psychology
as Masters in Marriage and Family Therapy. And so then
my internship started at cry Help, which is where I
fell in love in love with working and treating people
with addiction.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Right tell people what cry Help is and what an
incredible learning ground for you?
Speaker 1 (02:35):
What was this? Yes, so I had no intentions of
working in the field of addiction. However, there were no
other To be completely transparent, there were no other internships
available at the time once I graduated grad school, and
cry Help was the only one that was available now.
Cry Help, for those of you who don't know, is
a phenomenal non profit organization that works to help addicts
(02:59):
and alcoholics recover. It's an inpatient and outpatient program and
the moment I stepped foot in that place, I had
the intention of only being there for one semester ended
up being five years because I fell in love with
the people and I had no experience working with addicts
and alcoholics. I am not necessarily an addict and alcoholic myself,
(03:22):
but just the humanity, the vulnerability to transparency in the
staff there, because ninety nine percent of the staff at
cry Help were in recovery as well, and I just
felt at home and comfortable, and seeing the pain and
trauma of the clients at cry Help made me realize
that I want to specialize in the expertise of working
(03:45):
with addicts and alcoholics. So that was where my love
started for treating and helping people.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
What I love about you in a salon, we got
to talk about your mad design aesthetic because you make clothes, right, Yes,
can we just talk about that just for a second
and then we'll get into work here. It's incredible what
you do. You're very humble, but tell the folks about
some of your magic. Leah, I am.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
A creative at heart. I am a very lively person.
I think I have a very lively inner child, and
I try to keep her alive at all costs. I've
always been creative and drawing and painting and fashion has
always been something that I've been so infatuated with. It's
also a great way of emotional expression. So for me
(04:31):
learning how to make clothes myself, especially at a young age,
come in here as an immigrant, not being able to
afford some high end and design or clothing, but just
staring at these windows of these great beautiful dresses and
outfits and saying, I want to learn how to make it.
And so I asked the guy in the mall one
(04:53):
time if he could teach me how.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
To sew, how old were you then?
Speaker 1 (04:56):
I would say seventeen, sixteen, seventeen, and he said you
could intern for me making clothes. I was getting paid,
I think fifty cent a shirt to sew his shirts
for him, but I didn't care because I loved it.
I got to learn, and I think I've always been
so open minded to learn and be a student of
everything and anything. And he taught me how to sew.
(05:19):
I didn't go to school for fashion. I learned from
him and I just started making my own clothes and
I loved it. Ever since I made my own wedding dress,
I've made dresses. It became a business when I didn't
have my legal papers yet come in as an immigrant,
and it served a great purpose and it still is
very near and dear to my heart.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
One of the reasons why I think you're so successful
with clients, particularly it's a rare exception where somebody is
not an addict who can be so successful with addicts
is I think your compassion and that people feel safe
with you because they know that you have a story
like you didn't just you know, end up a pepperdine
like you had a make your own fucking clothes, and
(06:01):
you figured it out.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Can you talk to me about that.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
I agree. I think that my clients could connect with
the saying of suffering breeds compassion. I think that it's
so powerful because I am extremely compassionate to people who
are suffering. And that's not because I had the most
traumatic life per se, but because when I first moved here,
(06:27):
I did have to figure things out as an immigrant
on my own. I didn't get scholarships and grants or
financial aid. My mother worked really hard and multiple jobs
to help my schooling, and I never took any of
it for granted, and I worked day and night, studied
day and night. And I just think that I have
(06:49):
such a weak spot in my heart for the underdog.
I always have been because I think I was the underdog.
I never was, you know, the popular girl. Always kind
of been the more introverted, quiet underdog. And because of that,
I connect very deeply to wounded people. And again, I
(07:10):
also because I was born in a family of workaholics,
I think I knew what it felt like not really
having people who had time to listen, which is why
I became the therapist who listens to others who need
to be heard.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
So that's kind of a rough group down there. Sometimes
I'm sure they were lining you up. I'm sure they're like,
damn sith, you know, like how did you work with
all that? What was your secret sauce there and disarming them?
Speaker 1 (07:41):
And yeah, well yeah with in cry Help in particular.
I think that for me it was of course, I
had to learn how to navigate working with you know,
some people had just been incarcerated, came out of prison,
and I had to learn boundaries first and foremost, being
a woman, had to learn boundaries that you know, it's
(08:03):
a very intimate field and you get to have intimate
conversations with people, and I think there's a thin line
between making someone feel safe and not letting them get
too close to where they forget where they end in
where you start. And so I had to learn how
to set boundaries, but also how to really pour my
(08:24):
heart into the recovery process, you know, Like there's plenty
of times that I cried in my car when someone
relapsed or client I had been working with passed away
and overdosed. But I had to learn that, you know,
I can't save them, So when they're doing well, it's
not because of me, it's because of them. And if
they're not doing well, it's also not because of me,
(08:46):
it's because of them. And so I learned how to
empower people and not try to just save and fix them.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
I love that. I love that.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Well, you know, you work with thousands of individuals there,
what were some of the key's to successful people got
long term recovery? Looking at kind of your case load there, I.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Think that if I were to look at the cases
that really ended up being success stories or clients that
till this day will still come into my classes and
speak about their recovery, I would say, first and foremost,
the longer you stay in treatment, the higher your chances
of success. I've noticed because just like a person's addiction
(09:31):
didn't grow overnight and their habits, their recovery is not
going to just take seven days or fourteen days. Now.
I understand that not everybody has insurance or the right
resources to stay longer, but the beauty of the recovery
field is that there's always someone willing to take people
under their wing. AA meetings, NA meetings, and that's what
(09:52):
I love about this field. It's not like you know,
regular insurance companies where you need to always have money
in order to recover. This field is filled with people
who are willing to help. Even if you don't have
a dime, you know this, You can help plenty people.
So I think that I would say the longer, the better.
I also would say having a sense of purpose. Another
(10:14):
thing I've noticed is recognizing why they were using to
begin with. I think that's where therapy is effective, is
getting an addict or an alcoholic to know why did
you start using, and not to stay there, but to
heal from it so that we could find better cop
and mechanisms instead of the destructive ones.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Right on, Oh beautiful, Okay, I have a lot of
clients that have the term bad pickers.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
See, this is where I think you really thrive.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I think this is where, honestly, I think you're one
of the best in the country on your opinions and
expertise on this. Let's talk about chasing emotionally unavailable people.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Can we just go there?
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Yes? Okay, yes, I often talk about this in my field.
Seems to have become a sort of expertise because I'm
faced with so many men and women who deal with
this not just an addiction, but the idea of having
a bad picker. Because a lot of us had unavailable parents,
and chasing an emotionally unavailable person usually always stems back
(11:18):
to an emotionally unavailable parent, whether one are both, because
you'll only chase what feels familiar, and if you didn't
have that childhood experience or early essential year experience, something
in you will say this hurts too much. My self
worth is too high to tolerate this. And so a
(11:39):
lot of people who chase emotionally unavailable people were once
wounded children who did not have an emotionally available parent,
and so it's familiar to chase that, and they tend
to people please and hope that this person will one
day validate their worth and value the way that their
parents should have.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Right on. Okay, so what are some of the flags
you warn your folks to be like, listen, you got
to look out for this. What are some of the
key Mercedes flags that you.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Know emotionally unavailable people? Yeah, I would say one of
the flags for emotionally unavailable people is people who don't
feel comfortable talking about their emotions, who cannot even know
what they're feeling. There's a lot of people who are
not comfortable with their vulnerability. So even on the first
date asking them, Hey, what are your fears? You know,
(12:33):
a simple question like that will be very tough for
an emotionally unavailable person to answer because it requires a
level of vulnerability to talk about your fears. I think
another one is how do you deal with conflict? Right,
emotionally unavailable people tend to avoid conflict. They do not
like dealing with it. They either will retreat, they will
(12:54):
remove themselves, distance themselves avoided, or use substances. And so
I think emotional availability is the ability to sit with
your emotions, know what you're feeling, and also be able
to sit with your partner's emotions and not need to
escape theirs or your own emotions.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
All right on, beautiful, Okay, could you please explain to
the audience what love bombing is.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Yes, that's another big one in our field. Love Bombing
is anytime a person is extremely excessive with their compliments
or their gestures of love and care or desire for
you in a very short period of time. So you
meet someone on the first date, by the second date,
(13:41):
they're already professing that they might be falling in love
with you, or you're the most beautiful woman they've ever seen.
Or the most handsome man they've ever seen, and they
want to have children with you and start a family
with you, all within less than two months. And so
this love bombing is highly addicting. I mean talk about
addiction and recovery, and so a lot of wounded people
(14:03):
fall for love bombing very easily. I mean, it feels good.
And we have to really be honest with ourselves that
love bombing, although it has a negative connotation, a lot
of us are wounded and long for that. We desire
for someone to come with that intensity that we never
felt our whole lives. And so when someone comes and
(14:25):
injects us with all this adoration and admiration, we immediately
sniff it up like a line of coke and go, wow,
this feels so good. And that's where addiction and codependency starts.
And it's very, very difficult for people to heal from
love bombing once they get hooked on it.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Why it's such an important thing to learn how to
have tools to deal with this because if you're prey
to love bombing, when love bombing stops, that's when people
go out.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Right yes, Because if you think about love bombing increases
our dopamine levels. Dopamine is in every drug you could imagine.
So love bombing is the equivalent of the methamphetamines, the cocaine, stimulants, coffee,
anything in intensity. And so imagine a person's brain getting
(15:19):
hooked on that high level of dopamine and then now
all of a sudden it is bam, overnight removed. The
drop in dopamine will lead to immediate depressive symptomology. And
so that's what we need to not take for granted,
or we need to be more serious about. Is looking
at a person who has gotten used to love bombing
(15:41):
needs the same recovery and the patience of us are
from us that a person who was a cocaine addict would,
because the dopamine is just as intense and the recovery
will probably be just as difficult for that person.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
So what do you say to a client who's like
a weekend of dating the person and they're getting love
bomb and say, how do I handle this?
Speaker 3 (16:04):
What's your counsels to them?
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I would say, if a person is too sure of
you in a very short amount of time, pump the brakes.
You don't necessarily have to walk away from this person.
But verbalize that you want to take it slowly. I
always tell people get to know a potential dating partner
(16:26):
in different environments, around their friends, around their family, how
are they at their job if you have access to
those environments, see them in those environments before, because anything
could be performative when it's just the two of you
and when there's intimacy. But when you expand a person's
(16:47):
circle and you really get to see them in their
actual environments, that's when you really start seeing the inconsistencies
of what they show you versus how they actually are.
So I would say, if it feels too good, too quickly,
slow down, because it most likely is love bombing and
it's based on addictive patterns and not so much on
(17:07):
actual compatibility.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
I love the council about seeing them in other Environsment's
so good because what happens. I believe when you get
somebody to say pump the brakes, they're either gonna apologize,
go my god, you're right, or they're gonna turn on you. Yes,
there's no one between right, yes, and you really kind
of find fail what their nature is.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Yes, that's also another way to see if someone is
love bombing you. If they get offended by you saying,
pump the brakes, you gotta love bother, you might be
dealing with a love bomber or a narcissist, and so
you really kind of want to assert yourself and set
those boundaries early on to see how this person deals
with boundaries. That's a way to detect and assess if
(17:47):
someone is healthy and has been doing their healing work,
or if someone is still in a wounded narcissistic pattern.
And if that's the case, you probably should pack up
and run hard.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Hard. Okay, let me ask ask you this.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
This is something else that I love you know, reading
about and listening to you talk about. Why is abandonment
such a powerful wound?
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Oh? Because abandonment it blinds us to so many things.
I think that an abandonment wound is probably one of
the most harmful wounds that a person could experience, because
it could either lead to very intense codependency where people
(18:31):
will stay because they're so deadly afraid of ever being
left alone again. It will make them tolerate abuse much
more likely to do so even at the expense of
life threatening or even death. And so abandonment wounds almost
always lead to the person who was once abandoned to
(18:51):
abandon themselves. Right. So, when you deal with someone who
has been abandoned in childhood or somewhere where it was
very critical for them not to be abandoned, you really
have to do the healing work prior to them getting
into relationships because by default they already will prioritize relationships
(19:13):
with others or prioritize other people over themselves. Because I
have never worked with someone who has an abandonment wound
who has not abandoned themselves.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Amen, So talk about some of the techniques you help
people with the handle these wounds and get healthier around them.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yes. So, one of the things I do to get
people to reconnect to themselves is I work with them
on reconnecting to their inner child. A lot of people,
especially once we get in adulthood, we have less compassion
for ourselves. You know, we say, oh, i'll sleep later,
I'll get up earlier. Oh I could deal with the
pain or the heartbreaks not that bad. We kind of
(19:50):
minimize problems in adulthood and we feel as though we
should be able to handle it. However, when I tell
people for our next session, bring a picture of your
four year old self, preferably by himself or herself, and
then look at that kid, and then I want you
to tell me if you would inflict the same torture
upon that child that you do to yourself. And that's
(20:12):
when the walls come down and the person goes, oh
my god, I have been very abusive to myself. I
wouldn't do that to this kid. I wouldn't call this
kid fat or ugly. I wouldn't put them in the
care of an abuser or a toxic person. And so
I have them every morning look at that picture. I
tell them to put them on their phone screen or
their log screen, and every morning I have them look
(20:35):
at that kid and say, you're safe. Now, I'm going
to protect you and I'm not going to put you
in harm's way. And that's how reconnection starts because now
they could relate it to something that looks so innocent
and pure, and they all of a sudden develop compassion
for self. But you have to first put it in
(20:56):
the form of a child, and then they start eventually
start having that compassion for themselves as an adult as well.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Beautiful.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
You work, you know with a lot of people with
a lot of sexual trauma, a lot of PTSD, right,
how do you create like a safe space for them?
And what is somebody newly in recovery that having these
issues kind of walked through early stages of recovery.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
For that, I would say the first thing is to
always be a judge reezone, making a person feel like
there's nothing you could tell me that will shock me,
There's nothing you could tell me that will make me
look at you differently, There's nothing you could tell me
that I probably haven't heard before. And we'll go through
(21:41):
this together, at your speed, at your timing, whenever you're
ready to. And I think that the more authentic a
therapist is or a healer is in a session, the
safer the zone becomes for the patient or the client.
And so I think, whether it's PTSD or sexual trauma,
abandonment wounds, I think I always just try to connect
(22:04):
with the person first. You know, what are you into?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
You know?
Speaker 1 (22:08):
I like that outfit, and I find genuine things to
connect with them on. Once they start laughing and we
just connect, I said, look, I know you're probably nervous
because it is a very nerve wracking process once you
first start therapy or healing or recovery. But I just
want you to see this as a conversation with a person,
(22:28):
and before you know it, the ice breaks and the
person is ready to kind of dive deeper.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
And you know, like the question I asked you with
people in recovery around addiction, people recovering from sexual trauma
from PTSD, what are some of the keys of success
that you've seen?
Speaker 3 (22:45):
What are some of the secret sauce that they've been doing?
Do you see?
Speaker 1 (22:49):
I think consistency in their healing. I think that people
who have just like in recovery, they have a program,
you know. I think having a routine that keeps a
person grounded in their healing is essential to sustaining that
healing and that recovery. So I think the moment a
person unplugs from that, just like you know, in recovery,
(23:12):
we always say the attict could still come out, depending
on you know, whether your program is strong or your support.
So I think in anybody that I've worked with, what
I've noticed some of the key to success is that
staying surrounded by the right support and staying plugged in
in the right program, whatever that program may be for
that person.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Right on.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Okay, So what do you say to the husband or
the partner, or the moms, the kids, and they call
you up all the time and say, Mercedes, like, you know,
he won't get sober, he can't get sober, you know,
or he relapsed again.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
What's your counsel to them.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
My counsel to them is, I'll work with the client
that you need to work on yourself because loved ones
of addicts and alcoholics become addicted to the addict or
the alcoholic, and so they have to work on their
own recovery as well. They have to find a way
(24:10):
to connect to their lives as well, because most of
the partners, children, or parents of addicts and alcoholics I've
worked with have become so obsessed about the addict or
the alcoholic that they completely abandoned and neglected themselves. And
so my advice to them is always, let the professionals
(24:31):
work with the addict and alcoholic and let's have faith
that they're doing the right thing. But in the meantime,
it's essential for you to work on yourself, to heal
yourself and to recover from being so obsessed and addicted
to this other person.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
A lot of times they don't like to hear that
we don't understand the problem is no, right, it's.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Absolutely they don't wonder that. No, no. And that's why
I like working with addicts and alcoholics because by the
time they come to treatment, they know they have a problem.
The loved ones of the addicts and the alcoholics have
never thought that they're part of a problem. So for
(25:13):
them there was always an identified patient. So when I
then say, hey, look, you have issues you have to
work on as well, it is oftentimes shocking. It's like, wait, no,
but don't you know what he's been doing or what
she's been doing. And it's like, no, no, I know that,
and he knows that too. But you have to look
at what you've been doing and what addictive cycle you
(25:34):
are in, so that you could recover from it, so
that when he or she comes home, you're not wrapped
up in this codependent pattern that's going to make him
go use again.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Right on beautiful. Why did people stay in dysfunctional relationships?
Speaker 1 (25:49):
So many great loaded questions do they Well, there's several
different reasons. I think Familiarity I've noticed is the most
common one. People stay in relationships because one, it's familiar
to their upbringing, or the people they were around at
an early age. So if it's chaos that you were
(26:10):
raised around, or dysfunction or abandonment, you're much more comfortable
and your nervous system is more familiar with that, so
you'll tolerate it more. I think secondly, people who have
low self worth. We only tolerate people who reflect the
way that we perceive ourselves. So if I consider myself
(26:32):
of high value and worth, I will not tolerate a
person who does not respect and honor that same perspective
that I have about myself. And so the two things
I always work on is healing from childhood wounds and
increasing a person's self worth and value.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
How does a person get better self worth?
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Great question. The first thing is to spend more time
by yourself. When you spend time with yourself, for example,
I have a lot of fun different ways that I
have clients do that. One of them is I have
them explore with fashion. I love fashion, so I find
a way to bring it back into my session. I
have them try on different clothes, you know, different things
(27:15):
that they're not so limited to one particular role or presentation.
I have them break out of the limitations of emotional
expression through fashion, through painting, through art. And then I
also have them go on dates, and they're oftentimes deadly
afraid and embarrassed to do that. But I say, take
yourself out on a date. Go sit in that restaurant
(27:36):
by yourself. Don't worry about who thinks you'll get stood up.
Just sit there and sit through this comfort and just
be with yourself. Most people are so terrified by being
with themselves, which is where I think a lot of
pain keeps getting passed down from generation to generation.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Yeah, ultimately it's about self love, correct, right, Yes, you
got to have the self love, right.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Yes, that's where it all comes from.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
You know, you and I have talked about this last
two or three years. Suicide rates have just been skyrocketing.
Younger people check it out. What are you seeing out there?
What are you you know, what's happening out there? Why
are people so scared and overwhelmed right now? Why are
so many young people checking out?
Speaker 1 (28:26):
In your opinion, I think because the world is unfortunately
increasingly becoming more disconnected. You know, social media is connecting
us more, but personal relationships are becoming more and more disconnected,
and so the parents of these younger people are more disconnected.
You know, the whole thing of a lot of us
were raised by a tribe, by aunts and uncles, and
(28:49):
that is increasingly getting smaller. Then you throw social media
in the mix. Then you throw laptops and iPads and
all these different things in the mix. And so the
parents as well as the kids all are islands. It's
a bunch of islands in one home now. And so
now these children become teens and young adults who feel
(29:11):
so terribly alone, and so suicide oftentimes is just people
feeling as though the pain of being alone is too
much to handle and bear. They do not feel connected
to themselves and they do not feel connected to anybody else,
and so unfortunately that's the issue with this day and age.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
That's great, Yeah, fetanel doesn't help either, No, absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Of course, that's just the way that they check out.
That's just a way of dealing with the loneliness. It's
a means to an end. It's how do I cope
with feeling so disconnected? What could make me feel some
sort of connection to something, feel some kind of emotion.
And so the drug is just kind of almost like
the last resort more so than the problem. The problem
(30:01):
is we have a bunch of disconnected people. That's what
we need to solve. The drug is actually their best friend,
and although it's detrimental and oftentimes deadly to that person,
it's a glimmer of feeling good.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
So I've found out as great satisfaction that you know,
we're developing more younger listeners on the show, like teenagers,
and it really warms my heart. That's great, and it's
interesting who they relate to whatever. And but these issues
that you just spoke about so beautifully, what can you
say to that person right now who's got the real
(30:39):
what I say, the darkness is on you right now,
they're debating shriving beyond this planet anymore.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
What is your counsel to that person?
Speaker 2 (30:46):
What is the first step for somebody who's really every
day struggling whether or not they want to be around?
Speaker 1 (30:53):
I would say, you're here for a reason. That's the
first thing I think that you know. So I've taught
a lot about the journey of conception. I teach a
lot in my classes on how we all got here
and how many things could have went wrong for us
not to be here during conception and the fact that
(31:16):
you are here, the fact that you made it through
the entire intricate process, that you, out of billions and
billions of sperm, were the ones who made it, the
ones who have a purpose to be here. I would say,
you may not know what your purpose is yet, but
I promise you if you just hang on a little
(31:37):
longer and talk to somebody, there are people out there
who care. There are people out there who will connect
you to your purpose. Just do not check out prematurely,
because there is a reason you're here, and there are
other generations who are looking up to you to help
them as well. So that's what I would say. I
(31:59):
think that every single person on this planet has a
purpose right on.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
I love that, And just to as a friendly mind
of the audience, you know, I always tell people because
darkness will tell you not to reach out, It will
tell you don't bother people. But all you have to
do is text help. That's what I tell people that
you don't have to get into it. Just tell somebody
you're scared, you need help. It's the most important thing.
Let's go in a little bit. I'm gonna come around
(32:25):
all the others. Great things you're teaching what's that like
for you and teaching and how long you've been doing
that and kind of your messaging there and yeah, well.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
I love teaching, I do. I feel like it's similar
like therapy. I love connecting with people on a more
intimate level and having intellectual conversations, and my undergrad students
are brilliant young minds. I teach an intro to the
(32:54):
Psychology of Addictions class. I usually teach communication interpersonal communication
to listen better, how to connect better, and then I
also teach a lot of communication courses. I've taken a
break because my private practice has gotten much bigger, but
I've been teaching since two thousand and thirteen, so I
(33:15):
definitely is something at Woodburr University. What I love about
that school is it's small classes. So my classes would
range from twenty to twenty five the most. The capacity
for classes are about twenty five, so each student gets
to really intimately connect with the professors, and the professors
get to really learn from the students and the students
(33:37):
from the professors. So it's not like, for example, you know,
my husband's from Penn State, those classes are massive. I
like smaller, more intimate settings and really reach these people
and impact them so that they could impact other generations
and people around them as well. So I love it.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Wow, beautiful, beautiful. Let me ask you this.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
I've talked to you many times.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
You're always on a high frequency.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
You're always got that beautiful smile, there's always a beautiful light.
And I know you're busy, and I know you're dealing
with life and death every day. How do you maintain
this level of serenity, this level of consciousness, this level
of awareness? You know, can you what's going on over there?
Speaker 1 (34:21):
I think for me, I have a great relationship with
my higher power. I think that for me that consists
of a more spiritual grounding. I love nature. You've been
to my place very much into having peaceful surroundings around me.
(34:42):
I know that for me, balance is very important dealing
in the field that we're in where it could get
very heavy. I prioritize my rest, I prioritize affection, hugs
with my husband, with my dogs. I connect with nature.
I have intimate relationships with the squirrels, and you know this,
(35:04):
the squirrels, the birds. I think that that's what really
keeps me ground it because it puts things in perspective.
It allows me to recognize that even though I could
make a great impact in a session, I'm also just
one of Earth's many inhabitants sharing this with my animal friends.
And so I think that that really, for me personally,
(35:27):
is a very meditative practice that I do every single day.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
I've never been to Bali, but being at your house,
I feel like I visited ball. I mean, what you
created there is really quite something. Do you mind tell
the folks like kind of what you're magical little? I mean,
it's really kind of a special plaze out there.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
I love it. I think we got so blessed in
finding our place. It's surrounded by trees, so we have
about I think twenty eight palm trees. We have about
twenty four fruit trees. So there's papaya, there's lemons, of course,
or and just peaches, nectars, there's berries. We're starting to
(36:06):
do berries. We got apples this this month. We had mangoes.
And so for me, I think just the curiosity that
I get when I go outside and the wonder. Like
I said, my inner child just feels so alive. Coming
from South America, I was raised around nature and fruits
and vegetables, and so for me it is far more
(36:27):
than just a pretty place and a relaxing place. It
is medicine for me, and it's so healing.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
Yeah, I got has spoken there. Truth is spoken there.
You know. It's like you honest see, like a Mary
Poppins thing.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Going on there, like oh, here's a squirrel come on,
and the squirrels come up to you.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Yes, I love it. It's I'm the snow white in
my neighborhood. I'm brown white.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
I am.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Okay, that's good, Okay, what's on your mind right now?
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Now?
Speaker 3 (37:00):
What would you like to talk about?
Speaker 2 (37:01):
What issues you think are important that we're looking at
in the world right now? That you're seeing more and
more that you want to be discussed more, more things
in your practice more, you know, what's coming to mind.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
I think divisiveness is a big one. I think, you know,
going back to that isolation and people being disconnected. I'm
sure you see it. You work with large groups of people,
you travel all over. I think that we have a
don't talk about things that may rock the boat conversations.
And although we should be respectful of different perspectives, I
(37:35):
also think that when we get too far into not
talking about things. That's another reason why we're not connecting
with people because I remember time where people will talk
about their different stances on things, you know, and nobody
would feel as though the relationship was going to end.
(37:56):
And I think now everybody kind of just has to
deal with things on their own, which is kind of
why I think mental health issues are on the rise still,
you know, so, I mean, do you feel like divisiveness
is a big thing now, a huge thing?
Speaker 3 (38:09):
People are too aggressive or too scared?
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Not a lot of them betrain and just once again
in the addiction field, it's just you know, you have
to be Let's talk about triggers, like why do people
go back out and relash?
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Why do you got here?
Speaker 1 (38:24):
I think that a lot of people go back. I
always say it this way, I say that, you know.
And Tony Robbins talks about the six basic human needs,
and I love those six basic human needs because I
apply them to the couples I work with and the
people in recovery. One of them that I consider to
be a trigger that will make a person relapse is
(38:45):
when they no longer feel significant in recovery and they
feel more significant while using or while on distract. So,
for example, an addict who has been on the street
and was the connect and knew how to mix the drugs,
and you know, everybody considered him important in the drug circle,
(39:08):
but now comes home in recovery and his wife has
a system, nobody at the house needs him. He feels
very insignificant. He doesn't have a job, he doesn't contribute.
Guess what significance is one of the most important human
needs that will determine where a person remains. And if
they do not feel significant in a particular environment, they
(39:29):
will stray. It happens with infidelity. If a wife or
a husband does not feel significant in their household, they
will seek it elsewhere. And it's the same in recovery.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Once again, going back to your theme of you got
to have a sense of purpose. Yes, ket, it's sense
of purpose. It's so important. Okay, let's talk about this.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
Then. Why is finding a higher power and recovery so important.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
That's another great one. I think it's about surrendering. I
think a lot of people start using to regain a
sense of control and power, whether it is that they've
experienced extreme trauma or rape or sexual assault or abuse.
And for a lot of clients I've worked with, the
(40:12):
drugs was their way to feel a sense of control again,
and so in recovery, I think it's important to learn
how to surrender of trying to control, and the best
way to do that is to connect with higher power,
something greater than yourself, and not to keep resorting to
your own thoughts and feelings to find solutions for problems
(40:37):
that are not yours to solve.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
So when a client comes into your office, is I
don't know what to believe in. I don't know where
do I start? Mercedes like, fuck, how do I find
this higher power?
Speaker 3 (40:47):
Person?
Speaker 1 (40:48):
I typically and everybody's approach is different. For me, my
approach is to just have a conversation with them about
what they enjoy. Where do you feel most at peace?
Is it the beach? Is it around trees? Is it
around birds? Is it in a church? Make that your
higher power? Make something that makes you feel like you
(41:09):
are calm and your body is surrendering to that environment.
Make that your higher power, and then we'll worry about
the rest later. Because a higher power is not about
what I think it is or you think it is.
It's about what feels like a higher power to a
particular person and that is their choice.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
Beautiful. Oh, I love that.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
I know you love Tony, I you know I do.
How does Tony Robins resonate with young.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
I love Tony Robbins. I've been a huge supporter of
all his teachings. I've shown him in many of my
classes to my students. I think that he is such
a powerful presence and I've never met him. Still waiting
for you to take me there one day. I think
that he has such a powerful presence, but such a
(41:57):
healing presence where he doesn't make you feel like there's
a disconnect between you and him, at least from what
I've seen, feels like just a humble, powerful, healing presence.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
You know.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
One of the things I love about him. It's a
long I just went out there to surprise him, you know.
And he's always so curious. He always wants to learn,
you know, and he's just fascinated. Listen, he just it's
actually today's day five. He's doing date with Destiny. It's
a six day thing. He doesn't need to do it
(42:32):
for the money, he doesn't need to do it. He's
doing it for his love of it, because he knows
the get down is helping other people. He gets so
excited when somebody breaks through, and I know you do too. Yes,
I think that's why you're happy and he can enjoy
your life and talk to the goddamn squirrels. Is because right,
you love when like goes on with people. And also
you know, if it doesn't go on and people die here,
(42:55):
it's just the way it is. It's not a reflection
of your skill set.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Absolutely, and I agree with you. I think what I
love about Tony and you and my work is we
don't turn people away because they can't afford help, you know.
And even Tony, I you know, he's been doing I
think the Facebook stuff, especially during COVID, he did a
lot of Facebook thing that was for free, with giving
(43:20):
so many gems and working with people virtually on how
to help them heal, which this person doesn't have to
do anything for free. But the fact that we love
what we do, which is I think precisely why it's
a sustainable career for people like us, because it doesn't
feel like work. There's plenty of times that I'm like, wait,
(43:41):
there's so many people who forgot to pay like wait money,
and you know, and you have to be in a
place where you really love your field in order to
not check payment every time.
Speaker 3 (43:53):
Yeah, and there's a lot of burnout in our career.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
And it's really, I think comes down because people think
they're trying to save people, and you and I both
know you can't save anybody exactly.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
We just can't.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
I'm not I'm just a middle man. I'm just trying
to drop some truth from light and some compassionate love
on you and help you get past your sad story.
But if I'm trying to save you, then I think
I know it's better an ego and then you know,
it gets a little fucking scary.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Absolutely, But I think that unfortunately, we can't teach that necessarily.
I think that takes time. I think that you've been
in this field for a long time. I've been in
here for quite some time, and I think it's after
trying to save them that we finally go, wait a minute,
(44:41):
there's just no way it's possible. And then we surrender,
you know, we surrender and we go, wait a minute,
that's all ego stuff. We can't save or fix anybody.
We're just here to help and share what we've got,
and you'll take what you could use and what you
don't want, that's fine too.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
Yeah, people are gonna do what they want to do.
They're gonna do what they want to do. Let's talk
about family's healing.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
It's a big component of your work helping families hell helping.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
Can you talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
Yes, I think that in recovery or in any process,
whether it's infidelity or substance abuse, I think the entire
family is affected by a particular person's actions, behaviors, or patterns.
And so I think for me, the reason I love
the Marriage and Family Chat is because we don't just
(45:32):
work on individuals. We work with partners, with families, with siblings,
and so I always say, you know, you need to
be able to zoom in and zoom out for healing
to really really have a great ripple effect, which means
you work with the individual, when then you zoom out
and you work with their entire family. Because the truth
is is that until everybody is willing to change the
(45:55):
narrative that has been circling in the family, chances are
somebody is going to want to pull the dysfunction back out.
And so I think that everybody has to heal in
order for families, and not every family is willing to
do that. That's the hard fact that we should acknowledge to.
Most families are willing to only point the figure at
(46:19):
one scapegoat and say he or she is the problem.
I'm not the problem. And so of course we can't
force families to heal. But if a family is willing,
the chances of healing to actually stick is much higher
in those people than in those who are resistant.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
So what do you say to a client male or female,
or they say, I don't know if I can ever
forgive them for what they've done.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
I said, that's okay, maybe you're not ready yet. I
never force forgiveness. I first meet a person where they're at,
and I say, wherever you're at is where you need
to be, because I'm sure we all know that forgiveness
could help, but there's a reason that person isn't ready
to and I'm here just to find out what the
(47:06):
reasons are and then we'll navigate it together.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
I love that. Why is that put such a smile
on your face when you talk about.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
That, because I think it just reiterates the power of surrendering,
you know, being fluid with the client instead of trying
to do the textbook therapy or the textbook healing of
we should all forgive. Although there's a lot of commonalities
in human beings, we're all very different and we need
(47:35):
to respect and honor the fact that we're all very different.
And so I think kind of taking a more serenity
approach as I'm getting wiser, I think makes my job
a lot easier and my sessions a lot more effective.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
I love that because I think I've been successful. I'm
going to make you classes. I can't stop freebasing. I say, cool,
I don't go. You're gonna die. Yes, they don't want
They'd have heard that all their life. What no one
says is okay, right, okay goes a.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
Long way, yep, because now they have to look at themselves.
But the more that you're going to take responsibility for them,
now they don't have to take responsibility for themselves. You
remove yourself out of the way. Now they're left to
look at themselves. And I've done it with clients too,
and I know it's a risky move. I had a
client who kept relapsing, and you know, I've tried all
(48:29):
the traditional approaches first, and then after a while I
did your approach. I was like, look, let's just be honest.
You want to keep using you love it, You're not
going to stop. This is who you are, this is
what you want to keep doing. And she immediately was like, no,
I don't. I don't love it, you know, and I
kind of just went along with, Well, then she'll be
(48:51):
show me some different exactly because I'm not going to
be the responsible person for you. You have just as much
of a developed frontal lope as I have. I need
you to start learning how to use it, and if
you could use it, then you don't need me. But
I'm not going to enable you to keep that cycle
(49:13):
of helplessness that I know is not true because you're
not helpless.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
I think there's a real art when you say to somebody,
and it's how you say it.
Speaker 3 (49:22):
It's always about tone.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
You know, I'm really kind of getting bored with your
fucking sad story. How do you deliver that message? What's
your expertise with that?
Speaker 1 (49:35):
I love that. I'm typically very assertive with my clients.
This is why connection and rapport is so important. I
make my clients first feel as though I have their
backs and that I want what's best for them, and
once it's all about feeling it out. This is where
mindfulness comes into play. If I feel as though the
relationship is strong enough, then I could say to them, hey, look,
(49:59):
I can't want this more for you than you do.
But of course you can't say that to a person
you just meet the first or second session. But once
the rapport is there, you could absolutely push and challenge
the person. And I tell them the first session, I say, look,
I'm the kind of therapist who challenges their clients. I'm assertive,
I'm very involved. I'm going to give you one hundred
(50:21):
and fifty percent of me, but it's going to feel
challenging and uncomfortable, which means I call you out. My
clients do not think of Mercedes as passive and sweet
right now, but they love me because I am challenging
and I get them to look at themselves.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
Well, I love about you is you're very feminine, but
you're also fucking fierce.
Speaker 3 (50:45):
Have you always had that? Were you just always that way?
Speaker 2 (50:48):
And just like give a look to a brother and
they would know like, okay, I'll shut the fuck up.
Speaker 3 (50:52):
Yes, have you always had that? Yes?
Speaker 1 (50:54):
I am an aires, I'm a fire sign, and I
I am walking and talking fire. You know, I don't burn.
I've learned how to harness it. But I am definitely feisty,
and I have a leadership mentality, and I've always had that,
(51:15):
and so I think that I've been blessed with parents
who allowed me to be my feisty little self. And
so now you know, it works in the fields I'm
in as both as both a professor and a therapist.
You know, I get to lead, but I don't lead
with ego. I lead with make a person the best
(51:36):
version of themselves.
Speaker 3 (51:38):
Why is codependency such a serious affliction.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
Codependency is very dangerous, and I think a lot of
people minimize how detrimental codependency could be because they think
of it as, oh, I'm just dependent on another person,
and of course that is the more simple definition of it.
But a codependent person is a person who who again
going back to abandonment of self, who has abandoned themselves.
(52:04):
They're worth their power, their stands, their voice, and they
have created this correlation that they're worth their emotions and
their well being is dependent on another person. And so
if another person mistreats you, and if that other person
(52:26):
doesn't like you one day or doesn't respect you one day.
I've seen people go into a full on depression and
self sabotaging patterns because they're so dependent on the moods
of another person, and that is very dangerous. If you're
so dependent on another person's wavelengths, you have completely abandoned yourself.
(52:51):
And that is just far too much power to give
another person.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
What are some basic steps of recovery for somebody who's
got your codependency? What are just beginner steps for you
that you try to teach your folks.
Speaker 1 (53:04):
I get them to explore themselves. Who are you? What
do you like? What don't you like? And oftentimes codependent
people might not know what they like and who they are, right,
and so I say, well, what don't you like? They're
more likely to know what they don't like, So we
start with what don't you like? Okay, based on that
list of what you don't like, now we could look
(53:25):
at what's the opposite of what you probably would like.
Then then we start really looking and building an identity
for themselves. Who are you? Based on these things? Based
on your list of what you don't like, we could
detect what your standards are, what your boundaries are. We
could figure out what kind of compatibility is actual compatibility
and not codependency, and so we kind of start building,
(53:48):
establishing and cultivating an identity that they actually could invest
in and spend more time with. But it's no different
than any addiction. And so in codependent relationships, especially when
they're toxic or dysfunctional, distance, just like recovery is essential.
You cannot recover from your codependency if you're still with
(54:09):
this person twenty four to seven, just like you cannot
recover from your drug addiction if you're still using every day.
It doesn't matter how many tools and how many meetings
you attend.
Speaker 2 (54:20):
You know, Tony also is very very big about routines.
You know, I have a very intense morning routine that
I will never go off.
Speaker 3 (54:28):
What are your routines for me?
Speaker 1 (54:29):
It's quite the opposite. What revigorates me is sure. I
have a very specific health regimen where I do my
every morning. I start with warm water with lemon, fresh
ground ginger root, cayenne, pepper, and turmeric. So I make
(54:50):
a shot for me, make one for my husband, and
then it's a workout. I do a workout routine, whether
it's pilates or I run on the treadmill. It's great
for my mood stabilized. And then for me, I balance
routine with liberation. So after I've done the basics of
what my body needs, then I free my mind. So
(55:10):
then I break structure. I'm like, you know what, I
don't want to eat this today. I want to eat
this for breakfast. Or you know what I'm gonna after
my sessions. I'm going to go to the mall. I'm
not going to do what's expected. I'm going to let
my inner child have some fun, right because I think
that sometimes I think we're like those old school scales,
(55:33):
you know, when you go a little too much to
the left or the right, you get off balance. I'm
constantly adjusting between structure, which is the security and liberation
which Tony talks about as well, you know, And I
make sure that I have plenty of fun every single day,
and I have enough structure to sustain the fun that
I want to have for the rest of my life.
Speaker 3 (55:52):
Beautiful, beautiful.
Speaker 2 (55:54):
A lot of people I'm sure ask you, like how
do I get in this filth? Like I want to
help people. I want maybe someday be a psychologist or
a counselor.
Speaker 3 (56:03):
When they ask you, what do you tell them.
Speaker 1 (56:05):
I say, go to school for it. I think it's
an extremely rewarding field. Do it because you want to
do it and you're genuinely curious about psychology or relationships
or recovery, whatever the niche field is that you want
to get into. But don't do it for the money.
The money is great eventually, but your clients need you
(56:28):
to do it for the love of the field. I
think that's where healing happens, and clients are very in
tuned with your intentions in why you're helping them. A
lot of clients have trust issues, and so if you
want to get into this helping field, I would urge
you to follow through on it because we always need
(56:48):
more people in this field. But do it for the
right reasons. Do it because that's where your heart is.
Speaker 3 (56:52):
Oh, beautiful, beautiful. I'll also add, if you're really serious,
go volunteer for a little bit and see if you
actually like it. Yes, go volunteer.
Speaker 2 (57:00):
You're somewhere, some center, something, some treatment center. You don't
see if it actually you.
Speaker 1 (57:04):
Know, absolutely, I mean, and that's why I'm glad grad
schools do internships. You have to do an internship before
you graduate because you don't want to get into this
field because again, it could be very harmful. If you're
not in it for the right reasons. You could steer
a client in a completely different direction and that could
be life and death.
Speaker 2 (57:24):
You know.
Speaker 1 (57:24):
So we want to ensure that people are doing it
to where they'll consider human life as sacred and they
really do the best that they can to help. So
that's what I would say. I say, volunteer, do internships
and really really make sure is this something you naturally
do in your friend's circle and your family circle. Are
you the one who really is intrigued with the mind
(57:46):
and relationships or recovery, then go for it. Follow your
heart and the money eventually will come.
Speaker 2 (57:51):
Let's stay with that. Following your heart. Why is that
so important? You always follow your heart, but not everyone
does that? But why is that so important?
Speaker 1 (57:58):
Because it's the fastest way to sustain anything you want.
I think that if we follow our hearts, we enjoy
what we do and we'll have less regrets and resentments
later on in life.
Speaker 3 (58:14):
Yeah, it's so important. What's your final message to everybody?
Speaker 1 (58:18):
I say, we could all heal, therapy and recovery is
not just for the crazy or the attics, or the alcoholics,
or the sick or the mentally ill. It is aerobics
of the mind and the soul. And we all need that.
We all need to exercise our bodies, we need to
exercise our minds. And so I would say, treat yourself
(58:43):
the end of this year, tomorrow, the beginning of next year.
Treat yourself by healing, by exploring healing practices. It is
the most loving thing you could do for yourself, for
your children, for your parents, for your husbands, for your wives,
for your future families, for your friends. And so I
would say, really spoil yourself, get yourself a great holiday
(59:06):
present or a great New Year's resolution by really exploring
who you are and what you actually want to do
with your life.
Speaker 3 (59:14):
Amen.
Speaker 2 (59:15):
Amen, thank you for being on the show, and say
hi to the Scrolls in the morning.
Speaker 3 (59:20):
Corby William of.
Speaker 1 (59:21):
Course, of course, thank you so much for having me
so you know.
Speaker 2 (59:24):
The Sinal Show is a production of iHeart Podcasts, hosted
by me Cina McFarlane, produced by pod People and twenty
eighth av Our. Lead producer is Keith carlak Our Executive
producer is Lindsey Hoffman, Marketing lead is Ashley Weaver.
Speaker 3 (59:40):
Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week.
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