Music, Recovery, and Resilience with Russell Howard

On this episode, we're talking with award-winning composer Russell Howard. They explore Russell's career, collaborating with industry giants like Jay Z and Kobe Bryant, and his significant contributions to television, including 'Vanderpump Rules'. The discussion delves deeply into Russell's personal battles with addiction, his recovery journey, and how these experiences shape his music. Russell shares heartfelt reflections on fatherhood, capturing moving moments with his newborn son, and the spiritual guidance he relied on during his wife's pregnancy. He speaks on overcoming professional setbacks, persistence, and the blessings of prioritizing family.

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the SINO Show. My guest today is Russell Howard.
He's an award winning composer. He's worked with everyone from
Jay Z to Kobe Bryant to living with the Kardashians.
Has an amazing journey, very special person. We're gonna get
to it.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
So I met a guy that I heard speak and
he described alcoholism and addiction like an unsatisfiable fault finding,
highly opinionated mind that's always in a hurry, nowhere to go,
and can't stand the word. No. Inspiration for me is
as soon as you think you have it, it can
be fleeting too. It's like it doesn't want to be caught, right.
But I like that. I'm grateful for that because it

(00:35):
requires that I'm always seeking to find it.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Philly is in the house, Russell Howard, my brother from
another The guy's taking his madness and made beautiful poetry
out of it. I kind of see you that way.
And also I just want to say the thing I
probably love you about the most. You've hundreds and hundreds
of men gotten sober because of you.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Oh wow, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
You know, and that to me is always the grammy right,
you know, the worth of billion as you say it. Yeah,
that's why I'm a billionaire. And this is like the
promise is coming true. Indeed, I've got my show. I'm
here with my brother and we're gonna talk some truth.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
I just want to say real quick, this is so
great for you. I'm such a fan, such a fan,
and just it's wild, like I was in recovery for
so many years and we didn't cross paths right, and
then it just came at a perfect time. And you
know just how much you've helped me person personally, but

(01:41):
then also just the movement of shell, you know, just
helping me be a better father. And then my favorite
thing about you is you meet people where they are
and you don't try to change their identity. You work
with it. I could go on and on, so honestly,
I'm no, I'm really grateful, man, I really mean that,

(02:02):
And thanks you. Thanks for having me here.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
Yeah, we're in going to a lot of different directions
because there's so much with you. But here's where I
was just I kept coming in from me, buddy, I
want to start here. Let's talk about the sick and
tired of being sick and tired moment. Where are you
at what you're putting here, Systeff. Yeah, and then we'll
kind of go from there if that's cool.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
Love it, yeah, I love it. Twenty two years old,
just finished a twenty eight day stint at Hazelton, you
know the college, the College of Hazelton, the campus. The
disease was still calculating. During the whole twenty eight days.
I was starting to look better. You know, I could

(02:39):
speak the game right, but I still it still had
the whole plotting and cunning, baffling and just angling. So
here's what happened. Basically, Hazelton said, look, in order to leave,
we need you to find an aftercare programs. So I said,
I'm going to find one in California that lets me
have a car. Right, So I had done twenty eight days,
So open up these books and promises comes up. Now

(03:03):
this is Promises before it was like known for we
Sla Promises Malibu. But it was just starting to come
up because this is two thousand and two, right, so
you know, I'm like, I think this place may work,
right because I can have a car and I'm in
Malibu and I can still go do my thing. That
was the insanity that I actually believed that I was

(03:24):
going to go to an aftercare rehab right and still use,
you know what I mean. I was like, yeah, that's
gonna work. So I go there, and sure enough, I
get my car whatever. After like a day or two,
they run some tests. Okay, he sees sober, he's abstinate.
And so what happens is I I was dating these
two girls, okay, and one of them I'm still friends with,

(03:49):
and which is beautiful. She's a great mother and everything.
Shout out to Ashley and so so I leave, right,
I leave, I get my past to go out, and
I go to like Ceda wherever they were living or whatever,
and they're using. And the first night I get there,
I'm like, no, I'm sober now, guys. I'm just gonna
hang with you guys, right, yeah, So I make it

(04:09):
a day Okay, So I go back and then then
I go back to promises. Next day passes, I get
my car pass again. Boom. I go back and I'm like,
give me a sip of that. My thing was GHB
crystal meth. And then when I couldn't sleep, it was
snorting xanax. It was whatever I needed to do. The
drinking was just like yo, Like I just had that there, right,

(04:31):
I was a dry goods guy. Well the GHB was
liquid anyway. So then so I'm off to the races boom.
So my thing was I never wanted the party to
stop ever, never wanted to stop. So then so I'm like,
I gotta go back. So now I'm can I curse you?

Speaker 3 (04:47):
Now?

Speaker 1 (04:48):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (04:48):
Now I'm fucking okay. Now I'm fucked up. I'm driving
back right to Promises and I don't sleep, so I'm
up the whole night. I'm tweaking. I'm literally in a
Step two class, tweaking, looking around like I know they
can tell right the psychosis and everything. I make it
through that class, I get out, I take my pass again.
I go back to their place, and I'm off to
the races and I'm like, at nighttime, I say to

(05:10):
both the girls, I say, I can't do this. I
need you guys to break me out of this place.
You're gonna help me go. So we drive back to
Promises at nighttime, and then we brought one more girl,
and so I was in the backhouse right, So by
this time, I'm just ridiculously out of my mind. So
shirt comes off, I'm walking across the yard, right, I'm
waking people up. Lights are going on. I'm saying to
people like, come on, I got girls, let's get out

(05:32):
of here. They're like, bro, I'm trying to get sober,
you know what I mean, like known actors and stuff
like in there. And then the girls are like packing
up my luggage or whatever. So funny, and so we
get in the car and I take off, and so
we go back to their place after I just made
that big scene, all right, they go to sleep. I
don't want the party to end. So now I'm wandering
around this random apartment complex in Resida or whatever, and

(05:55):
I run into these let's say, let's call them. I
don't know if they were gangbang not, but you know
what I mean. And so I this crazy white boy
that I am, I'm, you know, all jacked up on
speed and g fearless or whatever, and and I'm like,
let's keep the party going. Blah blah blah. And the
last thing I remember is taking one more cap of
the GHB, and I come to with handcuffs on my wrists,

(06:19):
and like the good attic that I am, the first
words out of my mouth were no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
you got the wrong guy, right, the Nile defiance all
that immediately, and the cops say, really, look down. So
I look down, and I'm naked walking around in this
in the streets of Versida, and that was so strung
out that they were like, we're not even gonna take
you to jail whatever, and they and the next thing

(06:40):
I remember is again tubes down my mouth in the er,
waking up to a nurse being like, you're gonna die?
What are you on? You know, because GHB doesn't really
they could, they could find the crystal anyway. To make
a long story short, that was the moment where I
knew that this disease really had me, because I had

(07:01):
spent twenty eight days, you know, getting being sober, being
off it, and then within a three to four day
span of getting the promises, the disease progressed so quickly,
not just internally, but the circumstances so quickly that here
I was again worse off than before I even got
the Hazelton arrested or you know, in a er again

(07:24):
naked walking around and the girls and they partied. They
were like, we don't want you here, except Ashley and
she was like, I'm going to take you to a
hotel and I want to share this to finish the story.
I'll move it as quickly as I can because it
might upset some people. But I believe God is everywhere,
and I don't limit God, so I want to use
this analogy. So we go to this hotel in the

(07:44):
Marina and I pick up the phone. I call my dad.
I call Promises. My dad didn't want to hear it.
He was done. I call Promises, and Suzanne, who I
love so much, was just like, God is beautiful. We
love when we hit Bob, there's the thing. You can
come back right now, right, and so something new. There's

(08:06):
no way I'm going back. I needed help, and I said, Ashley,
give me a vic it in and she did m
and that fucking vico in calmed me enough. And I'm
not pro viking in. Please let's not hear hear what
I'm saying. Please, God is everywhere. I believe that, and
so I somehow it was enough to get me in

(08:29):
the car and my disease. The catastrophic thinking was like
I'm gonna go back to Promises. They're gonna scream at me,
They're gonna hate me all this stuff, all the noise,
all the bullshit scenarios. Right, I walk back after I
get dropped off across that yard, the same yard that
I made that big whole debacle and scene, and my
first real spiritual experience was they fucking clapped right on.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
Why they clap, buddy.

Speaker 2 (08:55):
Welcome back. We love you unconditionally.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
You're safe. We don't understand, yeah, but they knew you
come back. Something was different.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yes, March twenty eight, two thousand and two, And I
don't count that day because of the vike it in,
so I count my sobriety in March twenty nine, two
thousand and two.

Speaker 1 (09:08):
It's eve been sober? How long? Now?

Speaker 2 (09:09):
Twenty two years?

Speaker 1 (09:10):
That's what's up, buddy?

Speaker 2 (09:11):
Thank you?

Speaker 1 (09:11):
Wow Hey, helpful hinter for our listeners. If you're out
of treatment center and you're thinking about going to a
Silver Living or another one and you want to use,
tell somebody, Yeah, tell someone. If you have a you know,
you might want to give somebody the heads up.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
Sure I could have done that. I'm thinking about, but
that's because.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
We got on to use. We want to use. So
let's do this. But if you're cool and We're just
gonna riff, because you and I can riff like no
one else. If you're miles on your cold trade, you
know what I mean, We'll get it.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
Man.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
Talk about highlights and recovery. What you've learned about your
brain and what you've learned to wake up, not just
the physical physical sobriety came easy for you, right.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, yeah, I did.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
Let's talk about growing up, Let's talk about some of
the and we'll kind of weave in through there. Is
that cool?

Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah, it's beautiful. I was. I was graced by the
obsession lifted fast, and so I'm so grateful for that. However,
so the first five six years about sobriety for me
was about Okay, I'm so pumped that I feel good. Look,
I'm looking better. And it was about I'm going to
be successful and I'm going to get out there and

(10:15):
I'm going to go to these meetings. And I was
really big in the fellowship and I did the steps,
but it was more about like just kind of you know,
finding my way again and having a point to prove
as a man. And one of the most profound things
happened to me is that I got a lot of
stuff on the outside, and so I had drifted away
from the program around nine to ten, and you hear

(10:36):
this a lot of guys going out around ten to eleven, right,
And because my whole life had become about money and women,
to be honest.

Speaker 1 (10:43):
With you, be honest.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
And so what happened was when that stopped working, working
and doing the same thing, quieting the noise which I
didn't even really know I had a noise. I didn't know.
I didn't really know how to identify what I call
my disease of alcoholism or addiction. I didn't know until
it was so loud and rampant that at eleven, twelve
years sober, with a lot of stuff on the outside,

(11:07):
I wanted to die. I didn't want to use, but
I didn't want to live though. It felt like the
walls were closing in with it within my brain, and
it felt like no matter what thought I had of
trying to look forward to something, there would be a
responding thought right after that would apathetically just crush that
thought and be like, what's the point. I felt very apathetic,

(11:30):
I felt very uninspired, I felt very stuck. And I
now realized that that has probably been always my old
friend since a young kid that I used over in
the first place. Right then, but at eleven, twelve years sober,
I was extremely scared, and by the grace of God,
I met a man. I met a guy at men's
I was told to go to men's meetings by Suzanne,

(11:51):
the same promised woman. Yes, And so I met a
guy that I heard speak and he described alcoholism and
addiction like I hadn't heard, but it worked for me,
and I cried. He described it as an unsatisfiable fault finding,
highly opinionated mind that's always in a hurry with nowhere
to go, and can't stand the word no. Right, And

(12:11):
I wait, wait, say that again, what do you mean unsatisfiable?
And I was tearing up. I said, so, you're saying
that I have something inside of me that no matter
what I get, if I'm untreated, this motherfucker inside of
me won't be satisfied. He said, absolutely, And that described
this crazy, trapped, claustrophobic feeling I had been fighting for

(12:38):
like a year and a half, two years, because my
whole life, even in sobriety, became about how can I
satisfy self?

Speaker 1 (12:45):
Right?

Speaker 2 (12:46):
Pleasure, pleasure, pleasure, I'm sober though, right, Hey, I'm sober though.
But my whole fucking life on the outside is what
can Russell get? How can I? And once that stopped working,
where do you go? Right? This is why Like EMMT Fox,
he interviewed thousands of people. Half of them were extremely broke,
half of them were extremely rich. And he said the
ones that were broke, at least they had the delusion

(13:07):
and hope that once they got the money they'd be happy.
So they were happier.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
Right.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
So, once he was able to put these things to
words to me, I dove in, like I believe a
gift of this program. Like if I see an opening,
I'm going all in. And so I saw an opening
and I dove in, and that began my real emotional recovery.
Let me reread the twelve and twelve. What is this

(13:31):
unmanageability that Bill talks about? Oh? Wait, for years I
thought unmanageability meant my life is unmanageable. When I drink
and use huh um huh, it gets more unmanageable. But
for me to reevaluate and reframe that and go no, no
no no, no, no no no no no, this irritable
restless and discontented thing. This I had this as a kid.

(13:52):
I drank over this unmanageability. I used the drugs to
treat this unmanageability. Okay, well, what the fuck is this unmanageability? Oh,
it's this? Okay, So you mean when I walked through
an airport and my head is just assassinating people that
I don't even know. I don't like this person. This
person reminds me of this. That's not actually Russell. That's

(14:13):
a disease inside of me that speaks to me in
my own voice and has been since I was a kid.
That makes life very hard to live in. That's what
I suffer from. That's one of the things. And I went,
oh shit, and I became fascinated with this disease. Around
twelve thirteen years sober, started reading all the books and
Fox is going through twelve or twelve, The Language of Love,
all this stuff and Mary Williamson and I looked at

(14:36):
it almost like a UFC fighter that was just obsessively
studying his opponent. Okay, And it worked for me. It
helped me out a lot. I'm a defense guy. I
like to strategize and all this. When I met you,
there was a shift where it went, let's not just
talk about the disease right on. You got that, we

(14:59):
know you can. Okay, let's shift now to the good,
the gratitude right without you even saying that. And you
said it, but it was all there was. So it
gave me permission, gave me permission that I needed to go.
I can, I can like breathe a little bit, and
when I share, when I share, you know what I mean,

(15:19):
I can get really intense. It gave me permission to
also to be like, yo, I'm really grateful for my life.
Life is good enough of this and that my I
don't have the same brain that assassinates people when I
walk to the airport. And even if I do, my
response to that doesn't have to be so intense around it.
I can chuckle at the disease instead of fighting the disease. Yes,

(15:42):
you following what I'm saying with you, brother, And so
I know I'm going on and on and on. So
it's important, but I'm sorry for talking just going on,
but it's a great question.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
And apologize. Please. It's beautiful.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
And that's where I've been lately, you know. And and
with this is that there's been a lightning up within
me that it's that has happened. And I don't know
if it's just time and age and grace or whatever,
but I don't have the same criticism on if I

(16:12):
feel like I'm in the disease as I used to have.
It's just maybe I think it's actually becoming a father that.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
Helped as well, that kind of softened your heart alone, Yes, yes, okay,
well we should just go with that. Then let's talk
about that beautiful boy Yers. And then in the generational trauma.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
Thank you, that's something you've really helped with. I think
the greatest thing for me about being a dad is that, well,
first of all, the the unconditional, the love that I
never really knew that I was capable of having a
but I'm I'm proud. I didn't know my friends. I

(16:51):
was the first of my close friends to have a son,
right my closest closest friends, well except for Matt, and
the bet was out, Am I going to be like
this strict hardcore guy or am I going to be
like this laid back guy who's gonna be one of
the other And I'm definitely not the strict hardcore guy. Okay,
I'm also not like I also still have some principles

(17:11):
where I will discipline my son, you know what I'm saying.
But like my love for him and the gentleness that
happened and came about also did something in me where
it started to heal. I don't know, I don't know
how to explain it, but things in me where I
just move a little more gentle.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
But you know what else it is, you're just not
fighting as much. You're not fighting as much. You're letting
people win more huge, letting people win, and it's important.
Let's talk about that. Letting people win? What does that mean?
Translate that in Russell's life?

Speaker 2 (17:47):
You have a gift man of like you see things
in people that they don't quite see yet in themselves.
And I think that's why you're so good at what
you do. I like to think that I had that
as well, not to your level, and I appreciate that.
I'm so grateful that I have men in my life
that I can come to. And but when you said that,

(18:11):
it's powerful because I just was having this conversation with Adam,
my business partner, and like you know, we've been doing
some press on some of some of our stuff, some
music and stuff, and all of my texts are like,
you lead the way, this is your time to shine.
You know what I mean? Like I don't need to

(18:32):
be I don't need to be the center. I've won
enough awards. I mean this in a humble way, like
I don't have shit to prove like that. I still
want to hustle, I still want to build, but that
craving for like compensating. I gotta be seen all that

(18:54):
bullshit no way, no way, like And it's been such
fucking weight off my shoulders and a blessing to just
a let my business partners lead the way authentically, like
really grateful when my brother gets to shine, right and

(19:17):
then be one of the things you and I worked
on and I needed to work on. I don't need
to be the police to go out and police the
fucking world.

Speaker 1 (19:30):
I think I took your badge from you. Didn't.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
I took my retired your fucking bad I don't need
to do it. Yeah, I had for years this thought
of I'm gonna be the guy. If I get into
a text beef, I'm gonna hit back so hard because
I'm gonna hit so hard that I'm gonna teach them
a lesson so the next time they think about DA,
they won't do it right. I'm not doing that anymore.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
Good.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
We seas fighting with anything and everybody, including ourselves.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Including ourselves. Okay, now we're to go back to Philly.
You're a white kid in Philly. You hear things a
little differently. You've got some beats cut in your head. Yeah,
you find a record store. You're kind of wandering around.
But you think. I love about you, and I hope
you will know. You're insanely curious. And I bet if
we pulled all the great people you and I have
been blessed to work with, they're all insanely curious. And

(20:15):
you started. Let's just start our journey and walk our
way up to signature. And what you're doing now, is
that cool?

Speaker 2 (20:20):
That's great?

Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (20:21):
I love that youngest of you know, three brothers, right,
couldn't find my thing. Didn't matter how good of an
athlete I was. John was better, my middle didn't matter
how smart I was in school. George was better. Right,
I'm listening to fucking new kids on the block. I'm
eleven years old or twelve. My oldest brother, very good brother,

(20:45):
always introduced had me listening to the Cure at four right.
It was like, I love you, but we ain't gonna
have you listen to this shout out to new kids.
It's all love. Takes me to Sam Goodie, which was
like a tower wreck. Yeah, goes go, we go in there,
he gets Public Enemy, he goes listen to Welcome to

(21:07):
the Taro Doome and burn Hollywood, Burn, and let's talk
about it. I'm eleven, bro or twelve. I don't I'm
a kid in the suburbs. I don't really necessarily relate
to the lyrics. But I related to the passion, and
I related to the energy, and I related to that
feeling whatever that thing is that I got shited to
say in that fight, the power, whatever that is, I

(21:28):
popped out that way. And so again the curiosity and
again the same assets can also be the liabilities. Well,
the asset for me was if I get into something,
I'm all the way in. So now I find myself
walking to the bus stop obsessively listening to the Public
Enemy and NWA and all this stuff, and so I

(21:48):
start writing my own raps. It just starts happening. I'm
starting writing my own wraps. In my head. In my head,
I'm a writer. I read a boom boo boom as
I'm walking to the bus station. So I start doing this,
and I start doing this, and I start doing this,
and then I'm wrapping in front of my friends and
I'm doing all this stuff. And then I'm curious and
I'm like, I need to make my own beats to wrap.

(22:08):
Had no idea how to do it, so I beg
my parents to get me like a little mixer and turntable, stinking,
that's how you made beats, not how you make beats.
I learned that right away. So I was like, I
got a problem. I actually need an actual sampler. My
dad's like, well, you're going to get that on your own.
You're gonna come work for me, by the grace of God.
So I'm like, I'm gonna come work for you.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
Now.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
I'm down in Center City delivering messages around. I'm twelve thirteen,
I'm curious. I'm curious, and I had that young naivity.
So it's my dad. He's not gonna fire me. So
I'm sneaking off right, I'm sneaking off into this place
called Foonko Mart and sound to market places I probably
would shouldn't have gone. And I'm the only white boy there,
but I'm passionate and I'm authentically interested and they see that,

(22:51):
and so they take me in and they go, this
is the kind of sampler you need. Try sampling these records.
These are dope, break beats, this and that. Now I'm
there all the time, right, I'm ditching school. I'm taking
the train by myself, headphones on, writing wraps down. There
So no school training of music, none of that. So
the way I learned how to make music through curiosity

(23:13):
is that I would find my favorite track or album
and back then and the CDs you could open up
the cover and it would it would list contains a
sample of Miles Davis, something like that right kind of
blue or something right. And so I would open up
and I would say, okay, they used a Miles Davis sample.
So I'd go to the record store. I'd say, hey,

(23:33):
do you have this Miles Davis record and they'd say, why, yes,
we do. So then I'd go to the record and
I'd put the earphones on because they used to let
you listen to the records, and I did. That's it.
That's where they sampled it. Then i'd get that record.
I'd take this motherfucking record back home. I'd go home
and then i'd sample the same Miles Davis thing that

(23:54):
Pete Rock or whoever I was listening to used, and
I'd sample it, and then I would recreate his beat,
and I would try to emulate my favorite producer. So
then I would listen to his drums and I'd be like,
that snare drum is hitting a certain way. I got
to find a certain snare drum. I like how his
high hats are very crisp. I need to find that.
And I basically started to deconstruct and take apart my

(24:17):
favorite producer's tracks sound by sound, and then learn to
recreate them and emulate them. And then through that I
learned how to make beats, and then my own style started.
And so that was like thirteen fourteen fifteen. So then
I'm curious, right now I'm making my own tracks. I
pick up the Yellow Pages and I'm like, I need
to find a studio. So, by the grace of God,

(24:38):
I find this studio called Chill Factor, which is like
one mile from my house. Pick up the phone high
I'm like the book a session. My parents think I'm
crazy at this point. Anyway, I go in there with
my little EPs sixteen keyboard. I walk in. There's a
guy behind the board, you know, an engineer with all
the knobs, long hair, guitarists. He's like, great, man, cool
who's making the beats. I'm like me. He's like cool,

(24:59):
who's doing the rapping? I'm like me. He said, what
are you rapping about? Him? I said, weed and girls?
He goes, he goes, give me a second, I'm gonna gouy.
He calls his fucking sister. Hey, I got this kid
down here rapping about weed and girls, sampling Jimmy Hendrix. Listen.

Speaker 1 (25:17):
Fuck.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
I come out of the booth. She's sitting there. She's like, Hi,
my name is Murder. I'm married to Chris Schwartz. He
discovered the fujis and Cypress Hill. I want to manage you.
I'm like, all right, whatever, right, because I didn't give
I'm just a fucking crazy kid at this point. I
just I just cared about making music. Next thing I know,
I'm at their house and the barbecues and I'm being

(25:38):
brought in all this stuff and I'm managed by his wife. Right,
So that's how I was discovered. And then to fast forward,
so I'm in high school with Kobe. You know, it's
a very well known thing. Kobe and I had a
mutual respect because I never fucking asked him about basketball.
I didn't care. We talked about nas and biggie and lyrics, right,

(25:59):
So it was a break from him because everyone else
was so so one of my very good mutual friends
was always like Kobe. Listen to Russell's beats. Listen to
r Russell's beats. We lived down the street from each
other on Remington Road, and so h senior year, finally

(26:19):
it happens because there was a little pride thing between
COVID and I was a popular white kid, right, I
had a little I had that thing, right, don't get
a twist. I wasn't gonna like suck up to him, right,
and he was Kobe. So finally, once that BS was
put aside, he comes over to my bedroom senior year
and we start I start cooking up some beats. Bah blah'
was rapping, and then we go off our own ways.

(26:42):
And the short of the story is he signs with
the Lakers, and by divine grace, It's this crazy long story,
but I had heard through a very dear friend of
mine that he wanted to start like a Wu Tang
type of group. And so I was brought in with
these other rappers to go and find the best talent
in Philadelphia. And we did that and we were signed

(27:02):
to Columbia Records. And I was eighteen nineteen years old
and I was brought out to LA And that's how
I was brought out here. Yeah yeah, yeah yeah. And
I spent a year and a half working on Kobe's album,
released a single. We were at Larrabie West, and the
album didn't come out because Kobe was like, hmmm, I
don't think I want to do this anymore, and he
bought back the album. But through that album and working

(27:26):
on that, every rapper you can think of wanted to
meet him, and so one of them was jay Z
and he wants you know, he walks in and Kobe
had a way of like always keeping you on your toes,
which I respect. You know, he wouldn't tell you things
right away to see how you'd like to see how
you would react. Sometimes I met that young, even that

(27:47):
young one hundred percent. This dude was the most methodical,
strategic guy I've ever met right young laser laser sharp
right sharp shooter right random call seven, Am, Hey, I'm
coming to pick you up. You're scared? Am I getting
sent home? You know? Why is he doing this? He
knows what he's doing, right. And then so it was
like he instead of being like jay Z's coming, it

(28:08):
was like, yeah, I got something coming by. He knows
what he's doing, right. So then I'm in there and
we hear a fucking telecom. Hi, Yes, mister Bryant, we
have a mister Sean Carter here. My stomach drops right,
And so he walks in and this is jay Z
like volume two, hard knock, like like you know what
I mean, Like you're kind of scared of this guy

(28:28):
at this point, shout out to shout out to him
such a fan. And and and so I had this
manager that was part of the process named Lenny Nicholson
and he still very good friend of mine, and he
spoke up in the studio and he said jay Z said,
Jay listen to this kid's beats. And Jay looked at
me like you know, okay, you know, and my hands

(28:54):
were shaken, and I had my little NPC and I
was like, okay, I played a track that I thought
for sure he's gonna like this one, and he was like,
what else you got. I'm like, fuck, I got one more.
And I fucking played thisce, you know, and it's on
the album, and I just remember like I had to
hit the pads a certain way for it to play right,

(29:15):
and I'm like, I can't mess this up. It's one
of those moments. And I did it, and he just
stepped back and just started mouth and doing his thing,
and then you.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
Just started to go right into the rap.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
Just he does this thing when he likes a beat
where he starts like it's like he starts pulling from
like out and he starts writing the lyrics or like
crafting it, and so the whole room is just like,
I'm like, how long do I let this beat play?
And so eventually he stopped and he came up to
me and he said, I need that on a CD.
So he leaves and he comes back and I put

(29:49):
it on a CD and I was like, all right,
that was my shot. And then then I made some
other beats, sent it off and then I was flown
to New York and two of the tracks made the album.
I was nineteen years old with my name in the credits,
and it sold seven million records I think to date,
and my life changed, I'm not kidding, like within a week,

(30:10):
a week, a week, like as soon as it came out,
it was my parents were getting calls because I was
an unknown. It was like, who the fuck is this kid?
Who is this kid? I mean, it's like Timberlain Swizz beats,
like massive producers. Then it's like song eight, Russell Howard
song twice, It's like who is this kid? This cup?
You know? And yeah, within within a week and and

(30:32):
it was a wild time because I had these songs
on jay Z and I was still like driving around
in a beat up Honda and everything because the residuals
hadn't kicked in yet and the drugs were working at
that time.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
So it was all going uphill.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
I'm fucking cruising, bro cruising man, cruising nineteen out here
buying the whole bar drinks at Vegas, doing how the
junk we do? You know? Was the residuals hit and yeah, yeah,
and so that was like, yeah, what did you.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
Do after that? After all that success? And what direction
were you moving in then?

Speaker 2 (31:03):
So it was getting darker progressively, and so essentially a
full circle happened. That lady Myrna, who discovered me, and
her husband Chris, ran into my parents in Philly and
go We always knew Russell was going to be doing things.

(31:26):
We saw the jay Z credits. We heard and Chris
tells my dad, Hey, I just signed this massive deal
with Columbia. I'll give Russell whatever he wants, tell him
to come to Philly. So my dad calls me up
and he's like, are you happy in California. I'm like,
I don't know, Like the Kobe thing's pretty much done.
I'm just feel like I'm just kind of out here.

(31:47):
And he's like, well, Chris, we'll give you whatever you want.
And I was hesitant to go back to Philly. And
at this point, I'm doing I'm getting high every day
every day. I'm drinking every day from the moment I
wake up, doing a lot of blow all the all
the stuff. And so I say, yeah, I do a

(32:09):
geographic and I go join with this record company. It's
actually it's actually interesting because I'm going to make it
amends to this guy. I need to make it amends
to Chris. And I go there and they treat me
like the prodigal Sun product whatever and just open the

(32:30):
doors man, and just like whatever I wanted. And I
got strung out on OxyS and I had the imposter syndrome.
Now that I look back, I was a twenty year
old kid. I had two songs on the biggest album
out and I didn't feel like I really had the talent.

(32:51):
Yet I felt like it was kind of luck. I
felt like it was there was like it was divinely orchestrated,
but I felt like it was also kind of lucky.
And I felt like, am I good enough to keep
up with all these demands because now they're looking at
me as a top A producer. So I'm having to
make music for all the artists on his label all

(33:11):
the time, and I'm like up all night and I'm
you know what I mean, And it just wasn't good, man,
It wasn't good. And I did my best, but essentially,
you know, I definitely weren't qualified for the job now,
bottom line, right now, I dropped that ball, right, yeah, yeah,
I was actually detoxing at the Grammy's. I got nominated
for a Grammy. It lost at jay Z's album lost

(33:33):
to eminem that year. But I was literally at the
crypto when I was the crypto, whatever come and I
was detoxing. Wow. Yeah, and that was the beginning of
the end. I called back to Philly to try to
get some oxy sent to me, and my brother Matt
was like, you're gonna die and he called he called
my parents and uh and that was like that was

(33:53):
like the beginning of the end and everything anyway, So yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:56):
Yeah, I thank you and I both agree. Addictions of
spiritual malady. Yeah right, yeah, let's talk about faith and
how you got connected to your source and kind of
walk me through that process for you and where it's
at today and how it's changed over the years, and
and also feedback for people that are trying to still
get tapped in. They don't know what their higher power

(34:17):
is yet.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
I feel like for me, you know, you hear or
I would hear, there's you're either in fear or faith.
I disagree. I think it's fear or love. I think
love activates faith for me, right, That's why first win
to love wins. If I can shift out of fear
and find even the like even which to me is

(34:39):
an open mind. How can I open my mind to
this right, that's a step. That's the step two principle
for me. And then I can not be in such
a defiance mode around something. Have a little opening, show up,
and then I feel like God shows off when I
show up, God shows off. Right. Love that, And so
that that was really the beginning of whatever this relationship

(35:04):
is with this this creator that I don't understand. I
don't want to understand. Don't let me under Don't let
me fucking think I understand God, because then I'll be God.
I'll start playing this is what we gotta do. No,
And so I don't want I don't want to understand.
And so that was like the beginning of it. I
had to unlearn a lot of stuff in here. I

(35:25):
was raised Christian by by loving parents, man, you know
what I'm saying that, and and a Presbyterian, you know what,
dancing in the church and stuff, and I personally, uh,
and forgive me Christians. I'm a follower of Christ. I
personally like respect the Old Testament. But I'm a New
Testament guy. I'm a Jesus guy, right, I'm love and

(35:47):
grace right, I'm unmerited favor, right, I'm not I don't
rock with the if I'm a good old boy, I'll
get loved and I'll get in there like that's not
my thing, right, Like I feel like I had to
really really discover that this thing was watching over me
when I wasn't even thinking about it at all. And

(36:07):
so my faith, my relationship with God and my faith
is the biggest dance that I do in recovery, where
meaning there are definitely times when I feel like I
am not doing my part. I'm not I feel like
I'm not doing my part. However, I deeply believe in

(36:29):
my heart God doesn't care. He still loves me justice
much Because if I don't care if my son comes
running up to me when I come in, I like that, right,
Or if he just stands there and plays with his
super Mario, I love him the same. And I'm a
flawed human as a father. So if I believe that

(36:51):
this creator is just unconditional love that I can't even understand,
I have to be fucking courageous enough to believe God,
I'm gonna do my part and I'm going to show
up and I'm going to believe that You're gonna be
there even even when. And there have been many times

(37:11):
in sobriety where I have felt like I cannot do
this thing that you that I know I'm supposed to
do it, but I just show up. So I personally
find my faith in showing up. That's where I find
my faith. That's where I feel like I meet God
is I show up. I get out of the way
and so but I try. I intellectualized a lot in

(37:33):
the beginning of recovery, because you know, I like to
think I fucking know things and all this stuff. But
it's become less and less and now it's about kindness.
It's been a huge thing for me, right and also
just the breath and being willing to go okay, let's

(37:54):
try that. I don't know. God helped me out with
this one. I don't know, And I think maybe you've
seen that with me, have seen that, yes, you know,
a shift in that like, okay, I'll surrender to that.

Speaker 1 (38:04):
Let's talk about kindness. What does kindness mean?

Speaker 2 (38:06):
You pausing when agitated or doubtvil you know, asking asking
to see for help, to see the good in people, Empathy,
seeing being able to see versions of myself in others

(38:27):
and and find that relating to that person. I sometimes
feel like man some people pop out more kind than others, man,
you know, and I have I definitely always had a
heart for that. I remember walking in the in the
city with my father and wanting to give a five
dollars build a homeless guy, you know, young young. So

(38:50):
I felt like I was always graced with that spirit
of kindness. I felt like when the bullying and all
that nonsense happened that happens to us, and the guards
were developed, and the walls that become our fucking prison
that were there to protect me, all that shit went
away because then all the narratives and the stories began,
right that, you know, with the women, the less you

(39:12):
sweat them, the more you get them, all this bullshit, right,
the harder you are, the more you act like you
don't care, the more they want you, and all that
that narrative. So I lost my kindness along the way,
and but I feel like it's I feel like it's
really come back.

Speaker 1 (39:27):
I hope, I hope you never lose it, because I
think it's the most beautiful part about you.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
Thank you, thank you.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
That's a real grace to your kindness. Thank you. Let's
talk about why it's so important to help others and
you and I share, like, if you're not helping other people,
shut the fuck up. Yeah, I got nothing to say
to you.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
Yeah, let's talk you help a lot of people, man.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
Let's talk about that philosophy and why that's a mandate here.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
I mean, when you're in the programs, you know, there's
the principle of it gets it gets me out of self, right.
I do still think it's very ironic that Bill talks
about self centeredness, self obsession, whatever is the root of
this thing that I have, right, And I wonder how

(40:15):
he stumbled upon Like I think it was grace that
he I don't. I think the Holy Spirit wrote the
wrote the book. But anyway, so I guess the principle
is once I am helping someone else out, I'll speak
for myself when I'm really dialed in, because there's helping people,
and there's really helping people. And like when I'm sitting
across the table from someone like really they're committed, surrendered,

(40:38):
not in compliance, I'm there, you know, and I feel
what that person's going through, and I'm there's a there's
a moment, there's a flow that I get when I'm
making music where the outer world stops, the inner world stops, right,
and it's a meditative I'm here, and I think the
message is carried through. And to me, aside from maybe

(41:02):
the ninth step, I think it's the most powerful gift
of recovery is to work with others. I think, when
in doubt, if all else fails, right, go pick someone
else up, you know, be the greeter, right, clean up
the chairs, right, ask what I can do. And I
remember being told that too, when you know, when I

(41:23):
was newly sober, like the first year, and I had
to go. I was going on my first vacation with
my parents again, and I was told, listen, here's what
you do. Thirty seconds about you, tops two minutes about
them in conversation. Keep asking about them, keep asking. And
I was like, oh, that's interesting.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
I like that.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
It's a game plan. I like game plans. Right, keep asking.
Then next, go to your mom, Hey, can I help
with the dishes? Ask your dad about his work, you know,
look around the house, comment hey mom, this looks really
nice what you did here. Get out of this this
absorption right that traps us get out. And I did that,
and it made a huge differenceference and and yeah, people

(42:01):
could say yeah, well it was manufactured. I don't care
like you know what I mean, because it takes on
a life of its own and it works, and it's
still to this day it still works that if I'm
in discomfort, by the grace of God, if I can
remember these principles, because sometimes I don't, I can be like,
oh man, you're self obsessed right now, you're making all

(42:21):
about you shift boom, how's your dam man? Tell me
about you? What's what's been going on with you? And
you'll notice we do I do that, we do that.
You know. It's like it's like, what's the west Side's uh?
West side meant? Bravo was like one minute problem, two
minute solution, right right, that kind of ratio of it.
And so that's I still try to apply that today. Absolutely,

(42:42):
I don't want to talk about me, no no, no, no no,
I want to hear about you. And then you get
two addicts that no, no, no, I want to hear about you.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
And then that thing clicks mm hm where you see
them get a job, when you see them go through adversity,
when you see them leave prison, when you see them
go back to the family, and saying will you guys
please give me a chance. It's priceless, man, It's fucking priceless.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
My brother, my brother Jose, you know Jose.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
Yeah, where does Jose hit you?

Speaker 2 (43:21):
So beautiful? I don't hold back tears these days, man,
I've sponsored dozens, dozens of guys and that's not like
a flex. I'm grateful actually that they asked me. But
and my brother Adam is such a gatherer. He has
such a knack for being like yo, I think you would,
you know, and he's and he's always so kind about

(43:43):
like building me up. So he met he Adam met
Jose at this meditation meeting and and Jose was struggling
with the.

Speaker 1 (43:51):
Disease and he was give a little background on Jose.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
He was at the Salvation Army. And you know, he's
grew up in a gang banging family that he openly
talk about and and uh followed that path and ended
up in prison, had a divine moment in prison where
God did for him what he couldn't do right and
got out of prison and was at the Salvation Army.

(44:18):
I think he had, you know, a full family and everything,
you know, and so I'll never forget Adam's like you
got to meet this guy, Jose. I'm like, all right,
at this point, I'm on fire, bro, Like I I was.
I was like having the meetings at my place, you
know what I mean, And I'm like diving in. I'm
at every men's meeting and all this, and Jose shows

(44:42):
up to my place and he's all nervous. He's a big,
big brother, he's got tattoos everywhere. And he comes in
to rust you rush us. Yeah yeah, and you know, look,
I mean this humbly, but you know, my Condra, it
was nice. It was like it was decked out and everything,
and he's like, there's all these people there and he
he just starts doing what the addicts do the disease.

(45:04):
I don't know if I belong here, bro, I don't
know if I fit in. Blah blah, me me me,
me me. I said, yo, come, you're really fucking self
absorbed right now. He said what. He's a big dude,
right right, But truth doesn't need explanation, right. So it's
like when I said it, it hit him not in

(45:25):
a like I'm checking you, but in a like I
love checking like I love you type of check like.
And he was like, you're right, I'm making this all
about me. I'm like, they don't care, bro, They're thinking
about themselves. Back to the principle that was just talking
about ask them about them, don't make it about it.
And that was like this we had this. It was
like he went from who's this you know, white boy

(45:49):
in this thing telling me about this, to like this
is my brother bang boom boom. He thinks like me boom,
And then it was like all right. And then so
then I'm going to the Salvation Army and we're walking
around what is it fourteenth in peak or whatever it is, right,
and we're just walking and I just kept drilling in him, No,
that's not your voice, that's the disease voices. And finally

(46:11):
we're sitting in the coffee shop and I said, jose
you have a hater in your head. He went, Yo,
I got a hater in my head. I've had a
hater in my head my whole life. That's what I'm
that's it. He goes, fuck that hater. I'm gonna start
watching this hater and it was like it's a light

(46:31):
ball moment. It's a light ball moment. That was his
step one, right, and then he was like, Okay, and
then we dove into the book The Meditation Babbon and
now this I mean, bro, you know, listen, now he's
like father geez, like right hand man, you know, killing
a homeboy industries. You know, has a full blown five
bedroom house out and deep in the valley. Like every

(46:53):
time I see him on Instagram he's giving speeches with
fucking Buddhist monks and all this stuff. He's my brother,
you know. But I can still call him anytime and
if I need to be like, yo, you're out of pocket.
I haven't seen you in a meeting. And the more
he goes right to you know what, there's no defiance,
there's no bullshit. And so yeah, I love jose.

Speaker 1 (47:15):
Man, big love for Jose and Jose needs to get
father boiled down. And were working on it, oh for sure. Yeah,
it's on that. We're just trying to get it worked
out with his schedule. Yeah yeah, but signature tracks, Yeah,
how did it start? How long did it start? And
walk everybody what you do with that? So March twenty one,
two thousand and two, I get sober. I do some movies.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
For a couple of years, I was afraid to do music.
But you know, my Mom always says, you know your
heart will end up where your feet are right. So
and so I i God opens this door again where
I'm doing this movie, and the music supervisor's Babyface and
his brother in law, and they had heard by a

(47:58):
girlfriend of mine that I had done the jay Z thing.
I'm gonna fast forward. So within like a week, I'm
like an in house producer for Babyface the Icon right,
and they treated me like family. It was a great experience.
I build a catalog over there. I learned how to
like create music for other things than just artists. So
I learned how to make music for TV and films
and all that stuff. At this point, I still wanted

(48:20):
to be like a rapper and like, you know, a
famous producer. I still wanted all that stuff. God knew
better and always does. And so I'm living with David,
my best longest best friend, known of them since we
were eight and a half nine years old, and we're
living together in this little condo in West LA. And
he comes home one day and he's like, I quit
my bartending job and I'm going to start from scratch,

(48:43):
and I'm gonna because I know if I don't quit,
I never will and I'm going to start as a
PA on the UFC reality TV show or something like that, right,
And I'm like, and that's one of the things I
love about Dave. You know, we're very similar, but we
are delivery is very different, right, And so I'm like,
all right, brother, I support that. I got you, you know.
And Dave's a very likable guy, very integrity driven guy,

(49:06):
trustworthy guy. And so he starts moving his way up.
And he's also curious. So during lunch breaks, he's going
to the directors, Hey, can you show me how to
work this camera? Can you do this? I don't need
to eat lunch. Can I learn this?

Speaker 1 (49:18):
Right?

Speaker 2 (49:19):
And so he's working his way up. He's working his
way up, and he has got a lot of ideas,
and so he's fucking pitching me this idea. He's like, dude,
comes home with he goes yo. I was in the
edit base and I'm asking him about who's this mus's
doing this music and the music is not good. But
I asked to run my friend and my homie told
me one of the guys doing the music for Biggest
Loser or whatever has a plane. Like, what you mean

(49:40):
he has a plane? What you mean like a plane. Plane.
Like he's like, I think he has a plane. I'm like,
all right, we'll find out more about that, you know.
And so so he's like, I want to start a company,
and I'll and they're my homies, so I'll just be like, yo,
use our music. Your music is good. Music sucks. And
I'm like, I don't know, well, defiance right, and I'm like,
I don't know, man, I'll tell you what. Take my catalog.

(50:03):
At this point, I had parted ways with the baby Face.
They Babyface, they let me walk with my catalog, thank
you so much, and so I had like three thousand beats. Right,
I'm like, take my damn catalog. You and Adam get together,
you guys like formulate it and if it works cool.
I don't want to be involved. So fucking three weeks later,

(50:24):
we get a call from one of our homies. And
we had all these friends from Philly that were producers
and executive producers and all this stuff that Dave's like
making friends with and dah blah blah blah blah in
these shows. So we get a call two three weeks
later by this guy Matt Duklo, who I love to
death and He's like, we just fired our composer. We're
bringing you guys on. Are you ready? So we say yes,
which I believe in leap. Then you look period boom right,

(50:48):
So we're like, yep, were we ready? No? Right, but
it was like all right. So then it caught my
attention and they paid us up front money. Now I'm
coming from the record industry, right, the abused child record industry,
where I didn't trust anyone. I don't. I don't mean
that it's like forgive me if I say if actual,
I didn't mean like I was actually abused, but like
I was never paid on time, like like I was

(51:09):
like trying to like track down record labels, right, it
was like it was a weird system. So I come
in with this jaded mentality to a whole different energy
where they're like, Hi, you're gonna start working on this date.
And we did, Hi, here's your upfront money. And the
check clears, right, it didn't bounce or anything like that, like,

(51:30):
and I'm like and I'm still not trusting any of this,
but it caught my attention. And I'm twenty nine, thirty
years old at this point, and I had a light
bulb moment so I'm like, first of all, you guys
got to let me into this company, right, I know.
I said no, and Dave and I always love him
for this, he was like, of course, bro, come on,
We're not doing this without you, right. Adam was a
little reluctant, right, but I love him to dead.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
And I don't blame give background on Adam real quick
because people aren't going to know who Adam is.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
Yeah, Adam's my other best friend. I'm known since we
were ten years old. We have a lot of similarities,
very creative. We've butt had sometimes we've learned really beautifully
to dance, to dance and vibe together now. But we're
very strong minded in ways, a lot of ways, and
we had to learn how to coexist with each other lovingly, right,

(52:15):
and we really have it. I'm super grateful. I'm really
proud of what he's doing too. And so he's also
my business partner as well and best friends. So anyway,
so to make a long story short, I'm twenty nine,
thirty years old and we do our first show and
I learned I had to learn how to be a composer.
I had no idea. I just was a kid making

(52:36):
beats and so I studied. So I had a friend
of mine, Dave and Adams, give me a CD of
like the most eighty I think eighty to one hundred
used tracks on TV Realty from all these different composers.
So I said, fuck this shit. So I just would

(52:57):
drive around and listen to that work out, listen to it,
and I would study again. This is the divine orchestration.
If you think about how I learned how to make
beats as a fourth, it's insane, right, So God opens
up this door. I'm like, come on, I can do this,
and I mean this humbly, but I gotta say it honestly,
all right. I came in like a force bro before Us,

(53:19):
before Signature, like there was this guy. There is this guy,
David Vanikoory is very talented. He did all the music
for like Survivor, but if you think of reality TV,
it was just like that big orchestral or like circusy
cheesy music. I said, nah, I came in dropping beats
like we're bringing energy in this not because I knew

(53:40):
that that was the move. It's because I didn't know
how else to do anything else. So I just authentically
showed up. Then I took elements from the stuff that
I was studying from the other composers, and I infused
them like a good addict. I'm a chemist. I fucking
infused him, and so it developed a sound. It was
like this modern hip hop beat driven music. But then

(54:04):
like these plucky pisocados that you hear all over TV,
the comedy, quirky stuff. Kardashians can't find their underwear, boom
with beats, with beats, right and so, and I'm just
knocking them out. I'm knocking them out. I'm not Quantity
breeds quality. Quantity breeds quality. So I'm just like doing
six seven a day boom because I had a lightning
ball moment. And so I'm locking my door, I'm going

(54:25):
to meetings, I'm making music, and boom boom, boom, boom boom.
They start getting placed. Boom boom boom. Then the networks
are like, what is this? This is fresh? What is this?
And it just one show after another show after another
show after another show, And then what happened, really what
happened was when we got a call. We had done

(54:47):
some music for the Hills and we got a call
from this guy, Bill Langworthy, who was doing the show
called vander Pump Rules and it was a pilot and
he's like, I want you guys to do the music.
And he came over to my studio and we sat
in my studio and he's like, I wanted to sound
like I can't mention the show. I wanted to sound
like this. But but younger I was like, say no more.

(55:08):
Boom started cooking up the beats and so we did
the music for the pilot episode. The show took off,
it's still going. And then that really opened the door
for us because like an articles after that, an article
came out in the New York Times, the actual New
York Times, where it said the sound of reality TV everywhere,
the sound of Bravo And it was myself, David Adam

(55:28):
in the New York Times twenty nineteen, and really it
was a life changing moment. Yeah, and so now we've
done over I don't even know thousands of series. I've
won twenty seven as CAP Awards. You know, I have
a team of we have a team of forty plus composers,
several at whole admin team. We have a you know,
strategic partnership deal with Concord Music, and just you know,

(55:51):
it's what God has done for this company has been
nothing short of amazing. Man, it's been. It's turned into
a full blown machine. So and and wrapped. Now I'm
at this beautiful place where I really really have switched gears.
I still make music, but now I'm at this place
I want to see my younger guys come up and succeed.
So I'm going into more of like a mentor and coaching.

(56:12):
Oh wow yeah yeah, yeah yeah, where I have all
these different text threads with different composers and they send
me their tracks and I'm like, speed the tempo up.
Change this, that intro is too long, this, this is
going to confuse the editors. This is do that. And
just dialing in, dialing in with them and just to
see their growth happening quickly is amazing. And to see
some of them buy homes, buy homes, you know what

(56:35):
I mean, take their girlfriends to Italy, support you know,
support families. Man's it's really really a blessing.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
So wow, yeah, right, you put a lot of people
to work, and I love you for that. Get a
lot of food on people's tables, man, thank you. That's
very cool. But you talk about the creative process, being
sober and not sober. You know, the old bullshit. You
gotta be a torture artist to make the best or investment.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
What walk the audience through that your process, what you've learned?

Speaker 2 (57:05):
Genuine fear, genuine fear. When I made the jay Z records, Uh,
I was definitely intoxicated, you know. And there then then,
like you said, then comes the the the the cunning, baffling,
powerful delusion that the disease will tell me that my
creativity is directly associated with being high, and it's a

(57:27):
strong association, and and and and then it backs it
up with historical evidence. See, your biggest records were when
you were high, and it's all that noise and a
lot of artists die over that. I got sober, and
for the first six months to a year, I did
not feel creative at all, and it scared me, absolutely
scared me. My music equipment stayed in a storage for
a while, and so I acted and I did some movies,

(57:50):
and I was like, maybe I don't do music anymore.
Nonsense nonsense timing. I had to be patient, which is
my patience. Man, that's another thing. I'm okay. I And
and when I got back. There was this moment. I'll
never forget this moment where I don't know how to

(58:14):
explain this. I was never trained on how to play
the piano. I was a drummer and one day making
music sober, the key it was like a matrix thing. Man,
the keyboard made sense and I saw it numerically, hm,

(58:36):
and I was like, and I just started to play
sober right. I think at that time, I was like
two three years sober, and I played like I never
played before. And I was like, oh, this is this.
Oh this goes into a minor. Oh this, and I
was like, what the fuck has happening? And then I
was like worried, like don't go away, you know what
I mean, Like, let me film this. And then to
touch on that because I want to speak to artists

(58:57):
out there, because it is nonsense about that, but that
you can only make really great music when you hire
whatever the torture. And look, there's a lot of dope
ass to Kurk Cobain, I mean, you know.

Speaker 3 (59:08):
But.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
For me, the ritual and the consistency of making music,
especially in my field, there is no way I'm doing
that when I'm getting high. So I'm a right side
of the brain and the left side of the brain. Guy,
thank you God. And so I made a decision. I said,

(59:30):
we're gonna come up with a blueprint here and this
was all all from recovery. I said, we're gonna plain action, right, Yeah,
We're gonna do three tracks a day, six days a week,
one day off period. And that's what I did for
years for boom ba boom ba, boom ba, boom ba,
boom ba boom. So again, your assets can be your liabilities.

(59:54):
Your liabilities can be your assets. That creature of habit
thing inside of me channeled the right way, built a
machine in me. I went to the gym, I did
my morning routine. I made three tracks that day. I
probably went to a night meeting. Maybe I was dating
some girl, whatever. But day in day, day in, day

(01:00:15):
in day, Dan looked up won my first award. You know,
And I will say, and I talk about this a lot,
is that inspiration? Jay Z talks about that in a
movie that he did, Fade to Black. He says, when
you're not inspired, you got to go find it. And
it's a beautiful scene where he goes and he flies

(01:00:35):
to Miami to meet Timberland and I believe in that,
and I believe it is my duty as an artist,
privilege as an artist to stay inspired. The mistake I
see is that artists think that that means like finding
new sounds or doing something musically, which can sometimes work.

(01:00:57):
I don't believe in that. I believe you go the
other way. So what I will do is I will
go bodyboarding, I will go do some running along the beach,
I will take drives. I will do something differently right
to open up that energy inside of me that's directly
correlated with creativity. So it's something I'll go bowling with

(01:01:20):
my son, I'll go I'll fly and take a trip
somewhere and alone alone. I'll travel alone, and I'll walk
around the streets and I'll hear I'm over that. I
like that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
What is that?

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
Right? That's that showing up And so inspiration for me
is the most pressure. It's as soon as you think
you have it, it can be fleeting too. So it's beautiful,
it's dope. It's like it doesn't want to be caught, right.
But I like that. I'm grateful for that because it
requires that I'm always seeking to find it, and there
are a lot of times when I don't feel inspired

(01:01:53):
right now is one of them musically, But it's also
it's okay on trip because I know I got tools
around it, right, and I just get back into that
seeking and then it comes back, and then it's about
riding that wave. And then it's about not being too
attached to that wave, because if I get to attach
to that, it's before I can go there, right, you
know what I mean. But it's creativity is a trip.

(01:02:13):
It's so much about like, Okay, I just appreciate this wave.
I'm gonna ride this wave, and when this wave ends,
is gonna end, and I'm gonna trust that, and then
I'm gonna go I'm gonna hop on another wave and
it's gonna do what it's gonna do. And and that's
how I have treated my creative process. I try to
show up to the studio with no objective, none, you know.
I don't want to go in there thinking I'm gonna

(01:02:35):
try to find some hit. That's nonsense. I want to
go in there just to show up. I don't know
how it's gonna be. I didn't ask you today for
the questions, even if you would have been like, do
you want me to send the questions. I would say,
fuck no, right on, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
Anyway, thanks for letting me ran yeah, no, no, no, buddy,
let me ask you this. Your son says to your dad,
I gotta do a project at school, and I got
to bring in your favorite beaten song? Mmmm, what song
do you give him to bring?

Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
I'm gonna be that guy, and I'm gonna be like,
all right, we're doing one together. That's right, say we're
gonna do We're gonna do one together. We're gonna make
a beat together, which I've done one with him already,
And so I mean, I have some tracks that I
think I'm like really proud of musically. I have one
that I did where I was like rapping about him too.
Because I was gonna do an album for a while,

(01:03:29):
I chose not to, but but I think that that's
what I would do. I'd say, all right, deal, and
this comes from my own father. It's like, there's no
free lunch that I need this fair enough. Then you're
gonna get engaged too, and we're gonna do this together,
you know, And so I would make one with him.
That's what I would do.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
What can you say? The lyrics about the one you
wrote about him. Can you remember him?

Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
I just you know, it's like I never write. I
don't write him down, right, I just kind of go
in there and I just piece it together. It's called
hold my Finger too. I'd have to dig it up
in my phone. I just posted I'm sorry, man. But
the reason it's called hold my fingers because my first
memory was second memory of Zay really was when he

(01:04:15):
was born and then he was brought over. And then
they brought him over and he was like crying, and
so I put out my pinky and he held my finger,
you know what I'm saying, and he calmed them down. Yeah.
So the song was called hold my Finger and stuff
like that. But and the beats sick and everything was
talking about like I had this moment where I was

(01:04:36):
scared when when Nancy was pregnant, I was really scared,
and I would meditate and I heard this. It's hard
to say I heard it because I don't think it
does it justice. When the spirit speaks or whatever it does,
Mike drops or whatever, and it just said, put your
family first, I'll take care of the rest. But it
was deeper than words, you know what I'm saying. And

(01:04:56):
I think. I think that's how I started off the lyrics.

Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
It was something like I heard God telling me, put
your family first and I'll take care of the rest.
So I listened, and since then my personal life and
success has been blessed or some stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
It was like that, right, and then I and then
I moved into talking about Zay the privilege of being
a father and all that stuff. But yeah, and I
was going to do a whole album, like mature album
and all that type of stuff, and my dad and
I had a talk and we decided not to. Yeah,
I want to stay low key.

Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
Yeah here you brother, Yeah yeah. People see you drive
around and your rolls Royce. Yeah, that beautiful car that
you busted your ass far thank you, and people form
opinions that people think, oh, Russ has got it easy. Yeah,
But what people don't understand is how many fucking knows
you got, how many doors you got slammed in your face,

(01:05:49):
how many said no, we're not doing this, but you
kept going because one of the things that you and
I believe, and we're in the show up business. We're
not in the result business.

Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
And if there's anything I want to really talked to
people is do something that's right. If it's for ten minutes,
do something right to start, let's just talk, let's just
go on that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
Yeah, man, you're right. And my dad shares the same sentiment,
but he also feels what you feel too, because he
saw the whole thing since I was and my mom
and my mom, mom, I love you, and you know,
there was definitely a overcompensating moment that I was living

(01:06:31):
in like twenty twenty two ish, and I actually do
love those cars, but there was also definitely like a
loudness to me. And I'm grateful that that has definitely
ran its course or as much it's changed drastically. That
being said, I think the drive to buy the Ferraris

(01:06:58):
and the roses and is because I worried obsessively for years.
I would call my dad managers whatever. After I blew
the jay Z, after I had the jay Z songs.
You gotta understand, like he was the biggest rap artist

(01:07:18):
period at that time, and to have two songs on
a jay Z album and then disappear after it's not
really heard of, right, and so the drugs and I
take full responsibility in it, but my biggest fear was
Lightning won't strike twice And so then it became who

(01:07:41):
auditions and auditions and audish dude, well, I I lost
like five screen tests when I was really acting and
I'm not an actor. I just I fell into it,
but like real life changing things in front of my hands,
you know, like she's the man with me and Channing

(01:08:03):
with a man of by Boom, give it to Channing.
I'm talking about like the final person, like this other
show that I was supposed to do, you know, I'm
this this ABC series with that's like you know, and
the thing is what they do is they make you
sign the contract before you they tell you who's gonna
get it. So as a kid, I'm twenty six, and
you know, you're like, yo, I'm gonna get paid one
hundred grand of fucking episode's gonna change my life. And

(01:08:24):
and that fell through, and then the Friday Nights light
thing fell through that I could that I was supposed
to be, like so many things like and this is
just the acting right that I did for like four
years just I had Boom Boom gone, you know, or
or a McDonald's campaign. I remember doing the music for that.
You're gonna get it you're gonna get it. You're gonna
get it. People are telling me, babyface something, you're gonna

(01:08:44):
get it, You're gonna get Oh sorry, last minute. They
went in a different direction time after time, record deals
with it with Atlantic, you know, sign deals and then
to be shelved or to submit songs, and then and
then they'll be like, you know, we really like the beats,
but let's take you off the song and let's get
it to uh pretty Ricky or to Lupe Fiasco or
to Paul Wall right, which is still cool because you're

(01:09:05):
still making you're still doing things, but like just consistent, consistent. Oh,
Colombia wants to sign you again, this one d blah
blah blah. Oh to do a song with Seal Seal right, Oh,
he wants to put this on his album. Blah blah blah.
Last minute, he doesn't think it's for him. A song
with DMX where I was was, I was rapping with
the song and I made the beat. Someone got a
hold the song leaked it before it got released on

(01:09:27):
this album. I mean, just like countless, endless, endless, endless things, Records,
publishing deal, song deals falling through this and that. So
by the time signature happened and really started to take off,
and I started to feel that success. You're damn right.
I was like, I was like a pit bull, let loose.

(01:09:50):
I was man, you know, and I was gonna fucking
say a big forgive me, but we gotta get, honestly,
a big FU to everyone that told me no from
the moment I was eleven, twelve, thirteen, you can't be
a rapper. You don't look like it. I didn't have tattooesday,
even the even the story real quick, you know, at

(01:10:11):
fourteen with Murder and Chris, who I was talking about,
Chris came over to my house and said to my dad, listen,
Russell will never make it as a rapper. I'm not
knocking his talent. He doesn't look the part. Let's send
him to a dance school, a pop school, teach him
how to dance, and let's turn him into a pop star.
And I came in, I'm like, nah, I'm good. But

(01:10:31):
my point is, since the inception of me man really
discovering music, it was always like you don't belong, you
don't belong, and I get it, I get it right,
and so that fueled me. It made me hungry. It
was like I had something to prove. I personally performed
my best when I got something to prove, or if

(01:10:51):
I feel a little beef around the corner, you know,
and so yes, thank you for bringing that up. There
thousands of no's, but all it takes is one yes, man,
right on, All the fucking takes is one yes. I'm
gonna throw stuff up the wall, and I don't know
what's gonna stick, and it's probably not gonna be the

(01:11:13):
thing that I think is the best thing for my life,
and it's but it's better than I thought because now
I get to make music, I get to help other people,
and I get to stay low key. You couldn't pay
me enough money to be famous.

Speaker 1 (01:11:30):
I believe you. Actually, thank yeah, I believe you.

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
Yeah, I'm good.

Speaker 1 (01:11:34):
Okay, let me ask you this. There's somebody listening to
this when they listen to it, who's strung out right now,
there's gonna be somebody who's listening to the show who's
entreatment getting with some fanciful ideas about what they're gonna
do next. There's somebody who's terrified to write a song.
There's somebody who just got fired. There's somebody that is

(01:11:55):
in a really shitty, codependent fuck relationship that it's terrified.
What do you want to say to them?

Speaker 2 (01:12:04):
I've been there. I know you. I don't know you,
but I know you. I've been there, and inches and seconds,
small steps. Make the bed. Can you just make the
bed this morning? Can you just pray for the willingness

(01:12:26):
to after you make your bed, to hop on your knees.
Can you lift the phone? The healing starts not necessarily
when the other person talks to you on the phone,
but when you pick up the phone. Can there be
enough willingness? Please? Or pain? Can there be enough pain?

Speaker 1 (01:12:41):
God?

Speaker 2 (01:12:42):
Can you give them enough pain not to just destroy,
but enough that it creates a willingness to pick up
that phone and to call someone, and please let that
person on the other end of the phone be the
right person. Can there be a meeting nearby? And please,
when that meeting is there, let it be warm inside,

(01:13:03):
Let there be a seat. Let there be someone next
to them that smiles of that person and puts his
hand out and says welcome, because you are welcome here.
The arms of recovery are the most spiritual, real, unconditional, loving,
safe place that I have ever experienced in any religion

(01:13:23):
that I've ever sought out, not that AA is a religion,
but in any spiritual, any practice anything. So I would say, small,
small steps, small steps?

Speaker 1 (01:13:32):
Please? Please?

Speaker 2 (01:13:33):
Can we make like your thing is like you're really
great on harm reduction right, which I love? So please,
can we not give the disease enough room to convince
you to just stay in bed? So don't feel like, yo,
you got to get sober for thirty days? Fuck that.
Can you just get out of the bed, make a

(01:13:56):
call and stay sober for an hour? Can we do
an hour? Can we get to that meeting and just
do an hour? And then maybe after that, can maybe
can we find willingness to maybe, maybe, by the grace
of God, have someone say, hey, we're gonna go get
coffee or have you eaten? And can you maybe say yes,
I'm willing to go eat with you, and can we

(01:14:17):
just start there. That's really what I would say, because
the drug addiction that I had wanted me alone in
a closet, paranoid psychosis, dodging phone calls, dodging people at
my door, dodging, you know, afraid of life. That was
my just deeply deeply isolated, afraid couldn't do anything. So

(01:14:39):
I know that feeling of being stuck. So I hope
you're hearing me out there that there is real, real
support and unconditional love. And what I also believe. I
believe this is that the beam of recovery and the
beam of AA it can move fast, man, like healing

(01:15:01):
can happen. I've seen it, like seeing someone come in
who can barely make the meeting, and then they get
some brotherly love or some hugs and some things explained
to them, and they make it past the day and
they get a little fucking hope. It's exponential, man, you
know what I'm saying. And they get a little and
they oh, I can do this. I can make another meeting,
and then boom their in and then two weeks later

(01:15:25):
they're the greeter, you know what I'm saying, And then
they're leading a meeting and then their life is changing.
But then it gets funky. It can get funky because
then the disease. But oh, you think you got this right?
We getting cocky now, no, But anyway, but that's that's
what I would do. That's how that's how I would start,
don't That's the best advice I got.

Speaker 1 (01:15:43):
Yeah, let us love you until you can love yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:15:45):
There it is.

Speaker 1 (01:15:46):
Thank you, brother, I love you.

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
I love you too, man. Thank you my favorite podcast
I've ever done. Your energy speaks so loud. I can
barely make out what you're saying, man like that. That's
my favorite quote. And you just I just feel your love, man.
And you ask questions that I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:16:03):
Bro.

Speaker 2 (01:16:03):
You have you you you bring out the best of people,
you really do.

Speaker 1 (01:16:08):
Thank you, yeah, man.

Speaker 2 (01:16:09):
And you're an amazing dad and you inspire me. I'm
gonna tear up, and that's okay. You're an amazing father
and and you're you're a mentor of mine, and you're
a leader, and you're someone I look to and I
deeply respect. And I just fuck with you, man. I
just I love what you're doing and the people that
you help. And you live a big life man, and
you and that was a big thing. You don't let
anyone dim your light, right, and you're out there and

(01:16:31):
you live out loud, man, and it's authentically you. And
I just I pray grace and love over you, my man.

Speaker 1 (01:16:38):
God, thank you, brother, absolutely well. The Sino Show is
a production of iHeart Podcasts, hosted by me Cina McFarlane,
produced by pod People and twenty eighth ab Our Lead
producer is Keith carlak Our Executive producer is Lindsay Hoffman,
Marketing lead is Ashley Weaver. Thank you so much for listening.
We'll see you next week.