October 22, 2025 • 56 mins
In this powerful episode, Steven Wolt, CEO of Valor Recovery, shares his personal journey through pornography addiction, shame, and the path to healing. He opens up about the hidden struggles many men face, the impact of addiction on relationships and self-worth, and the importance of community in recovery. Steven and Seano discuss practical tools for breaking the cycle, the challenges facing younger generations, and the hope that comes from vulnerability and connection.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
When I watched porn. It lit me up like a
Christmas tree. When I watched porn, that fog of depression
that loomed over me, my entire life lifted. When I
watched porn, that anxiety that was so crippling vanished. I
(00:20):
had this library of memories in my head that I
can draw upon it any time to get high, and
so dark sexual fantasy was like my drug of choice.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I had nothing left. I had nothing left in me,
and I'm a fighter guy. I had nothing left in me.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Before we start this amazing episode, please please subscribe, Please
please subscribe. Okay, today we're diving into a subject most
people avoid, the quiet struggle that lives in the shadows
for the addiction and the shame that comes with it.
For so many men, this isn't about sex. It's about secrecy.
(01:06):
It's about numbing pain hidden in silence and carrying a
weight that they don't feel safe to share. Shame becomes
a prison and the screen becomes the escape. But here's
the truth. Shame can't heal shame. Only courage, honesty, and community.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Can do that.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
That's why I got my brother Stephen Wilt here SEEO
of Valor recovery. His mission is helping men step out
of the darkness, break the cycle, and realize they are
not broken, they are human and they can heal.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Steve, Welcome to the SINO Show. Great to have you on.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
It's great to be here. Thank you for having me.
I'm excited.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
That's good.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Listen, before we talk about valor recovery and we're gonna
get into that, and your beautiful partner and your child
all amazing. We gotta go back a little bit because
it just didn't happen overnight. Would you mind, So let's
let's go back a little bit, tell the folks a
little bit about where you came from. And my god,
I've been front row center for it. So let's share
(02:03):
this amazing story together.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
I'd love to it. It's a fascinating story. It's an
incredible story, and it's a beautiful story. And at the
end of the day, it's a love story, which is
which is the best? Right? And so, so my name
is Stephen Walt, and I think as it relates to
this topic and this conversation, I'm in long term recovery
from sex addiction, and it's so important for me to
(02:30):
say those words, you know, shame and stigma make it
so hard for men to talk about these issues, and
men suffer in silence. And so my mission is really
to turn purpose to the pain I've experienced in my life,
and through the power of radical vulnerability, shine the light
(02:52):
on this story to help others get more comfortable sharing
their truth. And so I'm gonna attempt to do that
here for you and for your listeners. And so, you know,
I thought we had a little fun with this. And
you know, I take you back to a time in
the late nineties, and I was in my mid to
(03:13):
late twenties working in midtown Manhattan and working in financial services.
And from all our appearances like killing it in life.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
You're doing quite well, brother, you're doing it well.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
I was doing great. I worked my ass off. I
don't come from means, so it was so important for
me to kind of accomplish something professionally, and I did it,
you know. And I remember moving into my first apartment
in New York City. It was on the thirty second
floor of a skyscraper building and it was a big
deal for a guy like me. Right, you walk in
(03:46):
and they were floor to ceiling windows looking at downtown
New York, the un Building, the Empire State Building, and
it was this incredible moment of like I have arrived.
But I also remember a few weeks after moving in
getting the Internet in my apartment for the first time. Wow,
(04:11):
and for the first time having access to pornography. And
I'll tell you something. You know, when I watched porn,
it lit me up like a Christmas tree. When I
watched porn, that fog of depression that loomed over me
my entire life lifted. When I watched porn. That anxiety
(04:35):
that was so crippling vanished. And when I watched porn,
that loneliness that was so pervasive in my life went away,
at least temporarily. And you know, I watched porn to
numb really really uncomfortable feelings and it really really worked,
(04:55):
you know, until it didn't. And you know, things started
to change over time. You know, I started needing to
watch porn with more frequency, I started taking more risk
as to where I was watching that porn. I started
watching my office on my work computer, which was insane.
And you know, I started watching porn through all hours
(05:17):
of the night until the next morning. Sometimes. I mean
there were times I would literally an absolute disgust. I
would take my laptop and throw it down the garbage
shoot of the thirty second floor because I've been watching
pornography the entire night and could not stop. You know,
I had told myself countless times, never again, not doing
this again, and you know, the resolve would be gone
(05:40):
by the end of the day and I'd be back
at it. You know. It. It was hard, you know,
and pornography for me was very progressive, and you know,
I started watching different types of pornography. You know, I
gravitated towards watching dark fetish porn, sissy porn, transsexual porn,
(06:02):
porn outside of my sexual orientation, and I was a
heterosexual guy. That was really hard for me to understand
why I was doing this, and I had so much
shame around this. I didn't understand why I was so
attracted to this, why this was so intoxicating, and why
(06:23):
I couldn't stop. And it was really really painful. And
you know, at that time, I was in a relationship.
I was a really wonderful woman, and what I noticed
over time was the effect pornography had on that relationship.
You know, over time, as I got further engulfed in
(06:44):
this porn and fantasy world, sex to me was no
longer about any form of connection or intimacy. You know,
I turned my girlfriend into an object and grossly unfair
to her and to me because it really burnt off
the nerve endings of any sensuality in this relationship and
(07:05):
really affected both of our self esteems. You know, pornography
emasculated me because you know, over time I couldn't get
to maintain an erection during sex. I had been so
desensitized to sex because of all the porn I was consuming,
and then over time I couldn't orgasm during sex with
(07:27):
a beautiful, beautiful, lovely woman unless I was thinking about
sissy porn or some insane thing I'd been watching the
night before. I mean, there was this pornography just it
robbed me of my manhood and so my goodness, when
you think about what it did, it opened up Pandora's
(07:50):
box of repressed emotions that I sexualized. And you know,
porn addiction, like most addictions, is progressive, and you know,
it typically can get worse so for time, not better off,
left untreated, and that was absolutely the case for me,
because pornography was a gateway drug pornography led me to
(08:10):
strip clubs, led me to escorts, escort websites, prostitution. Pornography
led me to a bunch of cocaine and it really spent,
you know, kicked off a horrific cocaine addiction and I
spiraled really hard. And in two thousand and eight, I
(08:33):
got fired from that job, and I got fired publicly
and being in a strip club, you remember that, and
with a bunch of drugs involved, rightfully, so I shouldn't
fired years before, and I wasn't. And you know, when
I lost that job, I didn't realize that that was
the glue that was just keeping me together. You know,
(08:55):
I had so much of my identity tied into my
ability to earn and perform, and when I destroyed my
career and my reputation, things really really fell apart. And
I moved out to Los Angeles figure in somehow, you know,
doing a geographic you hear all the time and addiction,
(09:17):
you know, it was interesting. At that time, I told myself,
you know, I don't know whether I'm going to live
or die from this, but I certainly am not going
to give my mom a front row seat for this.
Remember that, And yeah, then I moved out and met
you or early on in the process. And you know,
I think about when I think about recovery, I think
(09:38):
about it really in three pieces and healthy intimacy, healthy sexuality,
and healthy masculinity, you know. With healthy intimacy. The first
part of this journey for me was I had to
learn how to have an intimate relationship with myself. There
was so much shame. There was so much self hatred,
(10:01):
you know, and I was in so much emotional pain
that I had sexualized and so what do you do
with that man? And how do you heal from that?
And you know, I went away to residential treatment, to
a program that specializes in treating sex addiction and childhood trauma.
It was a good experience for me, you know. I
learned about how I had, how the role of childhood
(10:23):
trauma played in my sex addiction. I learned about how
I wasn't just a man with no morals or ethics
that I actually was. I had a disease or a
medical condition that I was suffering from. I learned about
sexual anorexia, and you know, and some of the challenges
I had and being in relationships because I had so
(10:44):
much shame over where the disease of addiction brought me,
you know, and I learned about how the harms of pornography.
And I think most importantly what I experienced there Sino
was I was around other men like me who acted
out the same way, and maybe for the first time ever,
I didn't feel so alone. And you know, I made
(11:06):
the decision, you know, to move out to Los Angeles,
and I wish I could tell you that everything fucking
turned out. My goodness, I wish I could tell that story.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
We're just warming up, brother, It was just warming up.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
It got worse, and it got much worse, you know,
and I can't believe it could get much worse than
it did. And over the next few years it got
really really dark. You know. I got introduced to crystal
meth and all of those shenanigans. I got tied into
the West Hollywood escorts scene and all of those challenges,
(11:47):
and it got really, really bad. And the thing that's
fascinating about that time was I was doing everything that
was asked of me to get and stay sober. You know.
I was working with an addiction psychiatrist, taking medication for
anxiety and depression. I was working with you as a
therapist that specialized in sex addiction. I was going to
(12:09):
alcoholics anonymous meetings on a daily basis. I was going
to sex addicts anonymous meetings on a regular basis. I
was doing the steps in the program, and I couldn't
stay sober. You know, the obsession and compulsion was so
much stronger than me. And you know, for many years
(12:29):
I was this chronic relapser and it was so hard
to keep coming back, but I did. And you know
it's interesting, you know when I think about that time, man,
I wasn't leading yet to sustained abstinence, but I was
(12:50):
absolutely in recovery. When I look back at my today
and I look at those years, those are actually the
foundation of who I am as a man today. That
perseverance to never give up, that ability to keep coming back.
I would leave emergency rooms with fucking wristbands from the
hospital on my wrist and go straight to a fucking meeting,
(13:14):
walking in there on my hands and fucking knees. It
is in those moments where I found that power within
me to persevere, and as painful as it was and
as hard as it was, I mean it has shaped
and molded me into the man I am today. And
so when I think about that man, and I think
(13:35):
about all the fucking guys who help me, I think
about the power of community. The men in those meetings
who loved me when I could not love myself, Those
men who welt in me back with open arms time
and time again, those men who invited me to their
(13:56):
homes on the holidays when I had nowhere else to
fucking go. I had such little fuck self esteem. Man,
I ain't seen my family in years. Those guys, like,
fuck my goodness, they saved my life. They saved my life.
I wouldn't be here today without those men. I mean, heroes, angels.
(14:19):
You know, you never know the effect you could have
on someone else when they're hurting, when you reach out
your hand, and so, you know, I mean they helped me,
they carried me, and here we are today. And it's
such a it's such a beautiful story because my whole
life today is based on how those men helped me.
(14:40):
And so I didn't give up. You know, I always
joke I could sell my newcomer chips back to the
home office and retired and.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Yeah, I mean it's we laugh about it, Yeah, but
it's fucking brutal.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
I mean, you know many times your mom called me
if you heard from my son, you know, and you
play hard. I mean, you give your car up, you
take a television off, you don't buck around, dude, Steve.
Before we go into valor in your amazing recovery, I
think it's important for the audience to hear that last
episode been sure of Boulevard?
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Right, yeah, sure, can we do that? Yeah, that was
the last one.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
It's it's dark, it's dark. Yeah, and you know it would.
I'll tell the story. You know. I went to my
morning AA meeting, which I do at seven am almost
every day, and dude, old school AA is the best, right,
I mean, you got old timers there seven am on
a Tuesday morning. I mean, just good stuff, right, always
(15:41):
leaving that meeting in a good, healthy place, saying the
serenity prayer, looking in each other's eyes, same thing with
the group we have with SAA, dude, and what a
great way to start the day. And I left that off.
I left that meeting, I drove to my office in
Beverly Hills, and you know, at that time, I'm sure
(16:02):
I had you know, maybe four or five six months
of sobriety underneath my belt, as I normally did at
that time and before struggling again and complete resolved that
day to stay sober. And I noticed as the day
went on, you know, I, you know, I so struggled
with using sexual euphoric recall to deal with emotional turmoil.
(16:28):
And yeah, so I'm at work and I remember, and
then all of a sudden, by noon, I start recalling
memories of past acting out experiences. I you know, in
many ways, my mind was so diseased. I had this
library of memories in my head that I can draw
upon it any time to get high, and so dark
(16:49):
sexual fantasy was like my drug of choice. I dealt
with my emotional condition based on that kind of e
fork recall. And of course I start doing the dance
mid day at work. And the problem with a guy
like me is that that kind of fork recall can
take on a life of its own. Dancing with those
(17:09):
memories can be dangerous for a guy like me. And
so by the end of the day, with not talking
to a guy in program and just playing with those thoughts,
I mean, I'm drooling right now, and so so here
I am at the end of the work day, and dude,
I'm ready to go back out. And so even after
being in a really good place, I made the decision
to go visit Candy Cocks. I mean, can not that out,
(17:33):
but there's a lot of people out there named Candy Cox.
I would imagine in.
Speaker 5 (17:38):
The prostitute world, what you guys do, what you got
to do with that and familiar West Hollywood kind of place,
and you know it, went there and did my dance
of kind of porn and you know, acting out sexually
and doing cocaine and been there for a few hours,
and made my way over to another prostest place in
(17:59):
West hollyoo doing the dance again there with cocaine now
crystal meth.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
And it's on, you know. And then I ended up
after leaving there, walking the streets of Hollywood. What was
for a few days and which I did a lot
is you're aware of because you scooed me up from
a two of those walkabouts. And you know, I ended
up in a North Hollywood in a crack then and
(18:27):
smoking crystal meth and in the corner watching men have sex,
and you know, broken up for days, not knowing where
I am, and outside in the vestibule or courtyard. I
hear a laugh, and you know, I don't know whether
it was the drugs talking or what. I heard a
(18:49):
little boy laughing. And I looked out the window and
a little boy was king a soccer ball with his dad.
Fuck And I watched them, and I watched sat back
down listening to that laugh, and it broke me. The
(19:09):
innocence of that laugh. You know, how far had I
fallen from any type of innocence in my life? And
I remember a tear rolling down my face and that
warm genior against my kind of cold body, and more
(19:29):
tears began to follow, and it just recognized where I
was one more time. Thousands of AA meetings, thousands of
SAA meetings, treatment rehab therapists, countless dollars spent on care,
(19:50):
and here I was, one more time, up for days,
engaging in sexual behaviors that are so demoralizing and humiliating,
exposing myself to diseases, scaring the living shit out of
my family. One more time. I got up from sitting
down and I left the apartment, and I walked over
(20:12):
to the father and then just said, I'm sorry. I'm
sure he was scared, Like what is. I'm sure I
didn't look very good being up for days. You're thinking
about what I was apologizing for. You know, part of
me thinks, looking back, you know, I was perhaps apologizing
for the man I'd become, or maybe I was apologizing
(20:34):
to him that his son had to be so close
to that darkness. I'm not really sure. I walked outside,
and you know it, it was now rush hour. You know,
I made the decision it was time to end my life.
What was the point? I kind of this is years
now in the making. I really really tried, so you know,
(20:56):
I really tried. I gave everything I had to do,
and here I am once again, like, how the fuck
I don't have another recovery in me. Dude, I'm gonna
have to go to the emergency room. I'm gonna have
to go to detox. I had to go back to
residential treatment. I'm probably gonna get fucking fired. I just
(21:16):
I can't do this anymore. I'm too tired. And you know,
I walked to the curb and I remember I had
a conversation with my mom and I just said, Mom,
I tried, I'm sorry, this will be better for all
of us, and I meant it, I really meant it.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
I had nothing left. I had nothing left in me,
and I'm a fighter dude, had nothing left in me.
And you know, I think about as I built up
the courage, which is not really courage to take that
final step. And right in front of me, a Ford
Explorer hit another car and rolled on its side. Obviously shocked.
(22:04):
I hobbled over to the car.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
And I say hobbled because I'd been up for four
or five days and my toast is wearing dress shoes
were kind of broken. I hobbled over to that car
and with another man, pulled a little girl out of
the back seat who had been bleeding. I came to
shot of adrenaline. I had no wallet, I had no
cell phone, I had nothing on me. I don't know
(22:27):
where anything was. I borrowed someone's cell phone and I
called my mom and asked for help one more time. Yeah,
it wasn't my day to die. That's what it looked like,
my bottom. And that was how long ago, Steve?
Speaker 3 (22:47):
That was tin was fifteen, right, and you've been sober
how long now?
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Nine years? Nine years? Nine years?
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Man? Amazing, And let's just get in this. When did
you Let's just let's let's just let me before I
talk about your amazing company.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Buddy, What's the one thing that you did differently this
time that allowed you to say sober.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
Nine years that you didn't do before.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
You know, it's hard to answer that question, because, see, know,
the one thing I didn't do is I didn't give up.
I just didn't give up through all outside appearances like
you should give up the same fucking working dude. I
(23:41):
just didn't give up. And so I did everything and
I just didn't. I kept coming back, and you know,
I just kept coming back. I just kept coming back.
I just kept coming back. And then things started to
st and then, you know, it was this kind of
(24:04):
beautiful journey of learning how to experience like life. There
was so much that I wasn't doing in life. You know,
at this time around, I was actually able to begin
to experience healthy sensuality and healthy sexuality. You know, I
was just able to be you know, I started to
date and sober date, and I started to learn how
(24:30):
to have a healthy relationship with sex. I had to
learn how to these God given beautiful instincts, and so
much of this was transcending the shame that if I
felt that I was unlovable or inherently flawed or broken.
(24:50):
And then all of a sudden I started to kind
of get into a relationship and have my first sober
sexual experiences, and then again to my first sober long
term relationship, and then my first sober breakout and where
I began to truly learn how to experience healthy sexuality
(25:11):
and what an incredible thing. And then that was just
kind of the springboard for the life I'm living today.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
But when did the idea come into your head? You know,
You've always been a very savvy businessman, and when you're
sober incredible at what you're doing, nobody can touch you. Honestly,
When did the idea come to start valid recovery?
Speaker 4 (25:39):
How did that all t Yeah?
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Interesting? Yeah, yeah, So you know, in twenty eighteen, I
had this idea. I wanted to get out of my
old career. It didn't give my life purpose, and I
knew how to make money doing it, but it didn't
fulfill me. I wanted to find a way to do
(26:02):
something in recovery. Not sure what it was, but I
just felt like there was something. All these experiences I've
been to so many different treatment centers, I've been there
so much, I have so much to give back, and
so one day, this is a crazy story. One day
I was in Santa Monica, my office was at the time,
and my psychiatrist was in Beverly Hills. I had to
(26:23):
block off half a day to go to my psychiatrist
to renew well bututrin. So with LA traffic, it took
me an hour each way. I spent fifty bucks for parking.
I saw the doctor for fifteen minutes to renew well,
bututrit on the way home, I'm like, dude, this is insane,
(26:43):
man Like, why did I have to do this? Why
couldn't I just do it? You and I are doing
right now. And so I had the idea on why
isn't telebehavioral health being used with behavioral health? And so
I just started doing a deep dive around that, and
it wasn't The efficacyving wasn't proven, and surance companies weren't
reimbursing for it. And so I had this But the
(27:06):
VA had been using telebehavioral help for decades with their vets,
and they had all this data that it worked incredibly well.
So I had this idea. I said, why don't I
start a substance use disorder intensive outpatient program and do
it all virtually. This is long before COVID, right, and
(27:29):
so I teamed up with an organization, Freedom Institute in
New York. They'd been around for fifty years in the space.
I knew that chairman of the board from AA loved
the idea. We teamed up with it. Incredible idea in market.
Before COVID were virtual IOP, nobody was doing it. I mean,
the idea, I thought, my goodness, Well, once COVID happened,
(27:53):
the whole world kind of embraced this technology and we
did okay, but we just didn't have staying power. So
we ended up shutting the business down a few years ago.
And it was really really hard. It was really hard
for me. It was really hard if I mean I
(28:14):
felt I mean, I felt so bad about myself that
so much shame came up. You know, recently married, I
got a family to provide for. I went all in
on this startup, double down, triple down. There's no freaking
way I'm going to fail here. And it failed. I said, okay,
like now what and now what? And you know, it
(28:38):
really dawned on me. I wasn't able to liquidate, have
a liquidity event with this business, or really find a
way for it to profit for my family. But there
was so much experience that came from launching a business
and building a business and learning what worked and didn't work,
And so that was the that the monetization was those experiences.
(29:03):
And then I started to think about when we were
in that space, we were doing a lot of work
with impaired physicians and impaired lawyers and in those communities,
and I always felt this sense of imposter syndrome, like, LI,
the fuck am I you know running this treatment center.
I'm not a doctor, dude, you know I'm a business
(29:24):
guy who was a recovering addict. I always had a hint,
but as I made there was just one thing that
I always felt so confident about my knowledge and insights
and vulnerability around my sex addiction. Always believed that I
was on par with anybody that was willing to have
(29:44):
a conversation around this topic. I just felt like I
knew it. This was the space that was meant to
be in there, and there was one thing. These are
tough topics to talk about, but the radical vulnerability about
my story is something very special, and if I could
find a way to create a business around that where
(30:06):
we can leverage this founder's story to help break down
barriers for other men. It could be a great opportunity
to change the world. And so that's what I decided
to do. And so that that was the driver behind that.
The other thing that really always bothered me. You can
go to AA meetings around the world and they're amazing.
(30:28):
You make your way to twelve step recovery around sex addiction,
seventh and love addiction rooms around this country, that is
not the same. The rooms are empty around this country.
The quality of the recovery is poor around this country.
They're mixed meetings the world. We lived in in Los Angeles,
(30:51):
I mean, it's like the recovery capital the world. Those
s meetings are breathtaking. That's not what exists around this country.
And so there was such an opportunity to bring additional
resources around sexual compulsivity, sex addiction and using a virtual platform,
which I had a bunch of experience with with that
old prior company, And that was the thinking behind it.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
Wow, and how long has it been in existence now?
Speaker 1 (31:19):
We have been up and run for a little over
two years and we've worked with over three hundred clients
over two years, and we're growing and growing fast. And
it's really I have brought on what Valor Recovery does.
It's a coaching and pure support system and to really
(31:40):
help men dealing with a range of challenges from pornt abuse,
sexual compulsivity, sex and love addictions, and intimacy disorders. And
the mission behind Valor Recovery is to really empower men
to learn how to experience healthy intimacy, healthy sexuality, and
(32:01):
healthy masculinity. And so the uniqueness behind that is we
are you right. And so there's something so powerful and
I'm not knocking therapy. I've done a lot of therapy
in my life, but there's something powerful with one man
talking to another man saying me too. And so the
(32:26):
psychological safety, the empathy, the bond, the connection of that
shared life experience can be so powerful in helping to
transcend shame. And so a combination of you know, community
that we create, the coaching platform that we have, men
(32:46):
are doing really really well here and we're so proud
of what we've created. It's so rewarding, Cino, it is
so rewarding, and you know it because you've been part
of so many men's recoveries and lives when they try
and send the things that are keeping their lives small,
and so to be part of that experience is really rewarding.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
That's beautiful. Buddy.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Congratulations, you guys do extra. It's nice to see brother
theo Von give you a big shout out. That was impressive. Yeah,
that was great. But he's a very big fan of
your work that you guys do. I've got some questions
for you, stever, let's get into it. Let me ask
you this first one. Okay, why is pornography addiction so
(33:30):
difficult for men to talk about compared to other addictions?
Speaker 1 (33:35):
You know, it's there's so much shame. There's so much shame.
And we work with a lot of men that have
very strong religious beliefs, and the shame they experience as
it relates to their behaviors around their porrent consumption is lethal,
(33:58):
and so it is often misunderstood. It's something you do
in privacy. Right, You're not watching porn with your friends.
Come on over, guys, let's come out and watch them
porn out together. That might be fun tonight. You're not
doing that. So it's something done in privacy. It's something
done in secrecy, and it is shame based for a
(34:20):
lot of men. And I'll tell you what's really interesting.
The recovery from it is so hard. Think about a
recovery cocaine addict. If he had to get sober off coke,
but he had to walk around with cocaine in his
pocket everywhere he went, how hard would it be for
that person not to do that cocaine? Well, what do
(34:40):
you think it's like with your cell phone? So it's free,
it's easy, it's accessible with a click of a button,
and it's really really difficult. I think for so many men,
this is the hardest thing they'll ever have to do.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Beautiful and Steve in your experience, what are the hidden
costs of porn addiction beyond the obvious relationships self worth
and purpose? Can you talk about that?
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's a you know, the hidden costs
are are are interesting. A lot of guys don't think
about this, and so I'm gonna think about share with you.
Like what we see when a guy gets six months,
nine months, a year away from pornography. You see a
(35:28):
guy oftentimes get a big raise, go back to graduate school,
launch of business, Like, what the hell does that have
to do with you not watching porn? The answer is everything,
because what you're doing is transcending Shane when foe. Many
men experience porn and experience immense sen as a result
(35:53):
of their porn consumption. And what that does is that
feeds that narrative that they're inherently flawed. They see the
world through the lens of shame, They make decisions based
on Shane. They have trouble believing in themselves. And so,
you know, you know, the fascinating part of what happens
when someone gets sexually sober, they get to see how
(36:16):
porn has permeated every area of their lives, not only
their ability to earn income, their ability to show up
with friends in a meaningful and profound way, to show
up for colleagues, and so breaking free from the bondage
of that is an incredibly powerful experience where men's lives
come And I'll go even further, like, you know, I
(36:40):
don't watch porn today because if I'm watching porn, I
don't notice the waves in my wife's hair. If I'm
watching porn, I don't notice her smile. If I'm watching porn,
that little sexual energy that we have that banter when
she's maybe aching dinner in the kitchen is not there.
(37:03):
If I'm watching porn unless inclined to kiss my way.
And I'll be honest with you, if I'm watching porn,
sex is not nearly as enjoyable because I'm so fucking
charged up in my head, I'm not present for the experience.
And so when you talk about pornography're robbing of you
of your manhood, but your ability to show up as
(37:25):
a healthy man in relationships. What's the priced tag on that?
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Heymen, buddy beautiful, see if you mentioned it earlier, and
I absolutely agree with you about that last relapse you've had,
going to emotional recall basically the porn hub in your
brain and that it is a gateway.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
It's a gateway drug. Can you talk to listeners why
porn is a gateway drug to other things? Please?
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Here's what I believe to be true, and science kind
of supports this, right. So, porn addiction works off the
same part of the brain as drug addiction, that kind
of dopamine reward system. And so what happens is is,
you know, people need to tell me I needed to
watch porn with more frequency to get that same high.
(38:09):
I started to take more risks on where I was
watching that porn to get that same high, and then
all of a sudden, like these lines in the sand
that you said you would never ever, ever ever cross
get washed away because what happens all of a sudden,
poorn is not enough, and where guys go maybe they
go to OnlyFans, and then maybe they don't deal with
(38:30):
can girls, and then all of a sudden they're on
an escort website. I never ever would reach out to
an escort, and all of a sudden they're texting an escort,
and there's just this progression. Just like with drug addiction,
where you need more drugs and different types of drugs
to get the same high, the same thing exists with
compulsive sexual behaviors, and pornography is kind of at the
(38:54):
root of so much of this.
Speaker 4 (38:56):
Yeah beautiful now.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
I know for a lot of listeners are to go like,
how did this guy go from being with you know,
let's call it that last episode, you know, at three
different sites, doing really strong drugs, having all kinds of
different people, you know, being physical with and something that
(39:19):
he did not want to do. How did he forgive himself?
How did he move on, How did he say that's
not who I am anymore? Could you walk the audience through?
Because I know that was not an easy task for you.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
No, it still isn't an easy task. And so the
process of forgiveness takes time.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
For me.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
Step one, I had to stop engaging in behaviors that
weren't in alignment with my values. There was this process
of I just had to make a living amends to myself.
And that was the first step. And you know it's
in interesting. Sometimes I drift into remorse. I don't do
(40:04):
it with much frequency, Like I can't believe all the
money I gave away. I can't believe I did this.
I can't believe I did that. I mean, I can't.
I hurt my family. And here's the deal. If I
had one dollar more, one dollar that might have been
I might have bought coke with it, and that might
have been the line that killed me. If I had
(40:30):
one dollar more, I might not have met my wife.
If I had one dollar more, I might not have
launched valid recovery. So God is or God isn't. And
I had to get to a point where I had
to accept that my path was my path. I got
(40:52):
to a place where I accepted that I went through
everything I went through for a reason. Wasn't clear to
me then what the reason was. It's getting more clear
today what that reason is. But I went through everything
preparing me for this moment in time, and so there's
a purpose to everything. Yeah, and I have this incredible
ability right now to turn all that pain into purpose.
(41:17):
My journey to hell and back is my gift. Somehow
I survived. My job is to make the most of
it this.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Chance when you're doing it that a boy, buddy, Steve,
What's what's right now? Somebody listening right now, they're feeling
trapped by this horrific illness. What's the first step they
can do to end this vicious cycle?
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Talk about it? Oh, find a play, just talk about it,
you know. And you know, there are so much good
resources out there today to get help, whether it's a
therapist specializing in these challenges, whether it's treatment for these challenges,
whether it's twelve Step recovery, their online support groups, their
(42:02):
coaching programs, their programs like Valor Recovery. There's a lot
of good stuff out there. But the first step is
to have the ability to talk about it. With someone,
and so the thing that the way we kill shame
is shining the light on it and storytelling. And so
(42:25):
that's easier said than done. Right, Where do you find
a safe place to talk about this stuff? Right? It's
not easy? I get that, but you'd be surprised fucking
people in your friends group. I would not be surprised
if you're the only one having similar struggles.
Speaker 3 (42:40):
Beautiful Steve, what are some of the tools or practice
you've seen really help men reclaim intimacy?
Speaker 4 (42:48):
Confidence? Connection?
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Men need other men to be better men. Men need
vulnerability role models, Men need to run other men as
it relates to second compulsivity to transcend shame. You know,
these are progressive conditions that get worse over time, not
better if left untreated. And I believe you can't do
this alone. Recovery is a team sport. And so you know,
(43:16):
if you hear like poor an addiction, whatever the label
you're thrown at, it is an intimacy at its core,
an intimacy disorder, right and so so very naturally the
roadmap to healing has to lay the foundation in tracks
for connection and community. I believe men heal best in
community with accountability and so, man, you don't have to
(43:44):
do this alone, and it's so much more funny when
you do it together, you know. So from that perspective,
I think the power of community and healing is really important.
Accountability is really important. Having someone in your life that
you can check in with on a daily basis. And
I like to say, like, great coaching, right, you think
about your Phil Jackson, Right, I know you're a Lakers fan,
(44:07):
But great coaching is around creating inspiration and motivation for change.
It's about teaching new skills and holding someone accountable to
practicing those skills. So you feel and think differently about
yourself over time, and so we change by acting differently.
And so what are the behaviors and who can hold
you accountable to practicing new behaviors on a daily basis?
(44:31):
And so I think accountability is really important. Having people
around you to call you on your bullshit really important, right,
And so I think that's really important. I think using
filters on your devices is really important. It's not a
perfect fix, but I'll tell you what you know when
(44:51):
you think about how easily accessible porn is on your
cell phone, on your laptops with the click of a button, dude,
it's second your nervous system as an auto response to
dealing with life. Why would you not put a filter
on it at least to create a pause from the
thought and the behavior, right to break this up. So
(45:13):
I think filters can be really important in healing, and
so I think that's important. And then I think it's
also really important. You know, you know, guys can stop
watching porn. They have trouble staying stop watching porn until
they really understand why they're watching porn. You know, as
(45:34):
much as you think porn is the problem, it's it's not.
It's the solution you'll turn into. What's really going on
right now? For so many young men in particular, it's
that boredom, It's that loneliness, is that kind of frustration
they have of being disconnected from society, that they're just
turning to porn as a way to cope. And so
(45:59):
understanding though, why, I think is really important what keeps
bringing you back to porn and understanding that and learning
new tools, especially around you know, boredom, loneliness, being tired,
you know, halt. You always hear an AA great acronym.
Same applies with porn as well, understanding you why I
(46:20):
think is really important to make in progress to kind
of you know, getting some recovery in this space.
Speaker 4 (46:26):
Well, let's stay with that.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
That great themes here with young men, with porn being
more accessible than ever, how do you see this affecting
younger generations some men in.
Speaker 4 (46:33):
Your practice there? Oh my god, yeah, break it down, brother,
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Yeah, I'll tell you. It's a real problem. So you know,
we have a real problem right now. This is a
generation of young men who have grown up with free pornography.
You know, it's interesting. We created a program for young men,
the as Send program. I have a porn addiction. I'm
an older man. I go work with a therapist like you.
Often what's at the root of that is some form
(47:01):
of trauma, right, physical abuse, sexual abuse, emotional abuse in
one's childhood. Is that the root of addiction With so
many of these young men, they've had kind of really
normal upbringings. The trauma is the porn they started watching
at ten years old. That's the trauma. And what has
(47:22):
happened Cino is because of the ease and accessibility of it.
This is the generation of young men who have used
pornography and social media to regulate their emotions. Feeling sad,
click a button, feeling angry, click a button, feeling anything,
click a button. And so it is a real problem.
(47:46):
You know, it's very well documented right now that we're
dealing with the loneliness epidemic in this country and our
young men are in trouble. I think I wrote the
stats down here with numbers. Men are three times more
likely young men, three times more likely to be, four
times more likely to kill themselves, and twelve times more
likely to be incarcerated. So this generation of young men
(48:07):
have never been more lonely, their skyrocking rates of anxiety
and depression, and they're not doing well. You know, they're
being so outperformed by their female counterparts. Now that's amazing
for women. Oh no, not the women at all. I
mean kudos, but these younger men, this generation, they're not
doing well. They're not dating. I mean, look at these
(48:30):
stats right here. Forty of men under the age of
thirty have experienced porn induced erectile dysfunction. Two out of
three men under the age of thirty are not in
a romantic relationship. Thirty three percent of men under the
age of thirty have not had sex in the last year,
(48:51):
and so when you just think about these dynamics, it's
pretty scary. And so you've got a generation of young
men that are really vulnerable. They're really lonely, and what's
really unfortunate, Cino, they're so vulnerable to these kind of
social media personalities that conflate masculinity with toxicity. They're very vulnerable.
(49:14):
They're not they're not they're not evolving into healthy men.
And porn is not the only problem. Social media is
a big issue, and there are a lot of other
things that are feeding us as well. You know, remote
work is not good for these young guys, not having
an office to go to, not having mentors in the workplace,
not having the structure of going to work, they're at
(49:35):
home all day long. I mean, there's a lot of
moving pieces with this. But pornography is not serving this
younger generation, and so it's a it's a real issue.
You know, it's fascinating. You get a twenty two year
old kid coming to our program right now who've been
watching porn for the last twelve years, and literally it's
like stopping watching porn is like coming off heroin.
Speaker 4 (49:58):
You know, Yeah, let's talk about that.
Speaker 3 (50:01):
Steve, let's talk about the Let's talk about the detox.
Speaker 1 (50:04):
Off that oh fucking brutal for these kids. Dude. They've
been watching porn daily, most of them for years upon years,
and there absolutely is a physical detox coming off of
pornography that makes it really hard not to return to it.
And so a big part of the work that we
(50:25):
do is just being hyper vision with these younger guys
coming into the program so they can get some traction.
That's why not having filters on your devices, having accountability partners,
having resources that you could call in real time are
so critical, because the desire to watch porn will come
back and come back with a vengeance, because that's all
(50:46):
you know.
Speaker 3 (50:47):
Interesting, Steve, I think you'll appreciate this and understand that
this really broke my case is that it's a case
I had recently. A young man, a sweetheart of a kid,
was arrested for sexual assault. And as I'm learning more
about the case, his pornography addiction was so progressive. From
eleven to seventeen. He thought this was the way all
(51:08):
women wanted to have sex, was rough sex. And he
didn't know and he thought, you know that he was
just like a role play, he thought, and she's like,
he didn't know.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
And this is real.
Speaker 3 (51:18):
It's a real epidemic, man, And I appreciate you talking
about that. But that being said, what should fathers be
talking to their kids about right now?
Speaker 1 (51:29):
Yeah, it's a great question, you know, as a new father,
these are these are things I think about. If you
don't talk to your kids about porn and sex, if
you don't teach your kids about these topics, porn will.
And so we've got to take the stigma away from this.
(51:49):
You know, think about the type of porn that's that's
out there for these kids to see. I mean, the
rape porn, the threesome porn, the gang bang porn. You know,
what the fuck is that? I mean, you know you
can't process that at eleven or twelve years old, and
putting all the body image things in addition to them,
(52:10):
you know, And it's like, I believe that there has
to be you know, so interesting people say, well, you
have a position on porn, and you know, poor, I
don't know, dude. All I know is it doesn't work
in my life, and I haven't seen it work in
a lot of people's lives right now. And so you know,
this grassroots movement early on, just educating people, young adults,
(52:32):
teenagers about the truth about poor just the truth behind it,
you know about you know what, who are these actors.
These are actors that are probably high on drugs. They've
been sexually abused themselves, they've been trafficked themselves. This s
ain't so fucking sexy when you actually see what it
is and learn about it. And so someone we've got
(52:54):
to be out there telling this story around, you know,
the truth about pornography. And I just think more needs
to be done.
Speaker 4 (53:04):
Mm.
Speaker 1 (53:05):
Great. And by the way, it's not just ports. You know,
go on Instagram, go on x go on Facebook, and
the explicit videos on these social media websites is profound.
Speaker 4 (53:19):
M m mm hm hmm.
Speaker 5 (53:21):
There.
Speaker 3 (53:21):
What do you say to someone who feels they'll never
be able to live without it?
Speaker 6 (53:25):
I get it, get it, And I said, you know,
it's like maybe we just got to figure out how
to get to tomorrow without it, you know what I'm saying,
And just maybe that's the case.
Speaker 1 (53:43):
Let's shrink this thing down and and you can do
anything for one day. Yeah, that'smorrow, beautiful?
Speaker 4 (53:53):
Yeah, right on.
Speaker 3 (53:54):
If you could sit one message directly to men listening
right now who carry this secret right now or deep
in the throes of addiction.
Speaker 4 (54:02):
What's the message you want to deliver to them right now?
Speaker 1 (54:06):
You don't have to do this alone. You don't. There's
a better way to live, and it's possible. And I
promise you, if I can do it, you can do.
Speaker 4 (54:16):
It, beautiful.
Speaker 3 (54:18):
And let's end this episode with the love story. You're
a father, you have a beautiful wife. She's a big
part of your recovery. You guys are in this together, right.
I mean, what's that been like for you?
Speaker 2 (54:32):
Man?
Speaker 1 (54:33):
It's been incredible. You know, it's a you know, it's
been incredible. You know, God did for me what I
couldn't do for myself. It wasn't a coincidence that we met.
Both of both of us had to go through what
we went through to meet each other, to time in
their lives when we did, and it's been this incredible,
profound love story and it just clicked and we have
(54:59):
so much love to give each other. It is just
the best thing that's ever happened to me. And it
turns out I'm a really good husband. I'm a really
good man. I take a lot of pride in loving
my wife and honoring my wife and respecting my wife
(55:24):
and giving her and showing her the love that she deserves.
Speaker 4 (55:28):
That's beautiful, buddy. Oh I felt that and I believe it.
Speaker 1 (55:32):
Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 4 (55:33):
I know it's true. I know it's true. How can
people find you, Steve in your an incredible program?
Speaker 1 (55:39):
They can, you know, yeah, they can. We our website
valor Recoverycoaching dot com, and you know, there's a lot
of information about who we are, the work we do,
and you know, feel free to you know, everyone to
reach out and talk to me. Happy to have that
conversation as well.
Speaker 4 (55:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (55:56):
I just want to say there's nobody better in America
right now to address this than you and and and
if you're struggling with porno addiction, please call them. I
just I believe in Steve. I believe in his mission
and he knows the game. You will get love, you
will get non judgment. He will give you a roadmap,
and he will give you a solution and take advantage
(56:17):
of his wisdom. Thanks Steve for being on the show.
Brother God speak, God blessed man.
Speaker 1 (56:21):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 4 (56:23):
That is incredible. Thank you buddy.
Speaker 3 (56:25):
The Sino Show is a production of iHeart Podcasts hosted
by me Cina McFarlane, produced by pod People in twenty
eighth av Our lead producer is Keith Carnlick, Our executive
prouser is Lindsey Hoffman, Marketing lead is Ashley Weaver. Thank
you so much for listening. We'll see you next week.
When I watched porn. It lit me up like a
Christmas tree. When I watched porn, that fog of depression
that loomed over me, my entire life lifted. When I
watched porn, that anxiety that was so crippling vanished. I
(00:20):
had this library of memories in my head that I
can draw upon it any time to get high, and
so dark sexual fantasy was like my drug of choice.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I had nothing left. I had nothing left in me,
and I'm a fighter guy. I had nothing left in me.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Before we start this amazing episode, please please subscribe, Please
please subscribe. Okay, today we're diving into a subject most
people avoid, the quiet struggle that lives in the shadows
for the addiction and the shame that comes with it.
For so many men, this isn't about sex. It's about secrecy.
(01:06):
It's about numbing pain hidden in silence and carrying a
weight that they don't feel safe to share. Shame becomes
a prison and the screen becomes the escape. But here's
the truth. Shame can't heal shame. Only courage, honesty, and community.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Can do that.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
That's why I got my brother Stephen Wilt here SEEO
of Valor recovery. His mission is helping men step out
of the darkness, break the cycle, and realize they are
not broken, they are human and they can heal.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Steve, Welcome to the SINO Show. Great to have you on.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
It's great to be here. Thank you for having me.
I'm excited.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
That's good.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Listen, before we talk about valor recovery and we're gonna
get into that, and your beautiful partner and your child
all amazing. We gotta go back a little bit because
it just didn't happen overnight. Would you mind, So let's
let's go back a little bit, tell the folks a
little bit about where you came from. And my god,
I've been front row center for it. So let's share
(02:03):
this amazing story together.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
I'd love to it. It's a fascinating story. It's an
incredible story, and it's a beautiful story. And at the
end of the day, it's a love story, which is
which is the best? Right? And so, so my name
is Stephen Walt, and I think as it relates to
this topic and this conversation, I'm in long term recovery
from sex addiction, and it's so important for me to
(02:30):
say those words, you know, shame and stigma make it
so hard for men to talk about these issues, and
men suffer in silence. And so my mission is really
to turn purpose to the pain I've experienced in my life,
and through the power of radical vulnerability, shine the light
(02:52):
on this story to help others get more comfortable sharing
their truth. And so I'm gonna attempt to do that
here for you and for your listeners. And so, you know,
I thought we had a little fun with this. And
you know, I take you back to a time in
the late nineties, and I was in my mid to
(03:13):
late twenties working in midtown Manhattan and working in financial services.
And from all our appearances like killing it in life.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
You're doing quite well, brother, you're doing it well.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
I was doing great. I worked my ass off. I
don't come from means, so it was so important for
me to kind of accomplish something professionally, and I did it,
you know. And I remember moving into my first apartment
in New York City. It was on the thirty second
floor of a skyscraper building and it was a big
deal for a guy like me. Right, you walk in
(03:46):
and they were floor to ceiling windows looking at downtown
New York, the un Building, the Empire State Building, and
it was this incredible moment of like I have arrived.
But I also remember a few weeks after moving in
getting the Internet in my apartment for the first time. Wow,
(04:11):
and for the first time having access to pornography. And
I'll tell you something. You know, when I watched porn,
it lit me up like a Christmas tree. When I
watched porn, that fog of depression that loomed over me
my entire life lifted. When I watched porn. That anxiety
(04:35):
that was so crippling vanished. And when I watched porn,
that loneliness that was so pervasive in my life went away,
at least temporarily. And you know, I watched porn to
numb really really uncomfortable feelings and it really really worked,
(04:55):
you know, until it didn't. And you know, things started
to change over time. You know, I started needing to
watch porn with more frequency, I started taking more risk
as to where I was watching that porn. I started
watching my office on my work computer, which was insane.
And you know, I started watching porn through all hours
(05:17):
of the night until the next morning. Sometimes. I mean
there were times I would literally an absolute disgust. I
would take my laptop and throw it down the garbage
shoot of the thirty second floor because I've been watching
pornography the entire night and could not stop. You know,
I had told myself countless times, never again, not doing
this again, and you know, the resolve would be gone
(05:40):
by the end of the day and I'd be back
at it. You know. It. It was hard, you know,
and pornography for me was very progressive, and you know,
I started watching different types of pornography. You know, I
gravitated towards watching dark fetish porn, sissy porn, transsexual porn,
(06:02):
porn outside of my sexual orientation, and I was a
heterosexual guy. That was really hard for me to understand
why I was doing this, and I had so much
shame around this. I didn't understand why I was so
attracted to this, why this was so intoxicating, and why
(06:23):
I couldn't stop. And it was really really painful. And
you know, at that time, I was in a relationship.
I was a really wonderful woman, and what I noticed
over time was the effect pornography had on that relationship.
You know, over time, as I got further engulfed in
(06:44):
this porn and fantasy world, sex to me was no
longer about any form of connection or intimacy. You know,
I turned my girlfriend into an object and grossly unfair
to her and to me because it really burnt off
the nerve endings of any sensuality in this relationship and
(07:05):
really affected both of our self esteems. You know, pornography
emasculated me because you know, over time I couldn't get
to maintain an erection during sex. I had been so
desensitized to sex because of all the porn I was consuming,
and then over time I couldn't orgasm during sex with
(07:27):
a beautiful, beautiful, lovely woman unless I was thinking about
sissy porn or some insane thing I'd been watching the
night before. I mean, there was this pornography just it
robbed me of my manhood and so my goodness, when
you think about what it did, it opened up Pandora's
(07:50):
box of repressed emotions that I sexualized. And you know,
porn addiction, like most addictions, is progressive, and you know,
it typically can get worse so for time, not better off,
left untreated, and that was absolutely the case for me,
because pornography was a gateway drug pornography led me to
(08:10):
strip clubs, led me to escorts, escort websites, prostitution. Pornography
led me to a bunch of cocaine and it really spent,
you know, kicked off a horrific cocaine addiction and I
spiraled really hard. And in two thousand and eight, I
(08:33):
got fired from that job, and I got fired publicly
and being in a strip club, you remember that, and
with a bunch of drugs involved, rightfully, so I shouldn't
fired years before, and I wasn't. And you know, when
I lost that job, I didn't realize that that was
the glue that was just keeping me together. You know,
(08:55):
I had so much of my identity tied into my
ability to earn and perform, and when I destroyed my
career and my reputation, things really really fell apart. And
I moved out to Los Angeles figure in somehow, you know,
doing a geographic you hear all the time and addiction,
(09:17):
you know, it was interesting. At that time, I told myself,
you know, I don't know whether I'm going to live
or die from this, but I certainly am not going
to give my mom a front row seat for this.
Remember that, And yeah, then I moved out and met
you or early on in the process. And you know,
I think about when I think about recovery, I think
(09:38):
about it really in three pieces and healthy intimacy, healthy sexuality,
and healthy masculinity, you know. With healthy intimacy. The first
part of this journey for me was I had to
learn how to have an intimate relationship with myself. There
was so much shame. There was so much self hatred,
(10:01):
you know, and I was in so much emotional pain
that I had sexualized and so what do you do
with that man? And how do you heal from that?
And you know, I went away to residential treatment, to
a program that specializes in treating sex addiction and childhood trauma.
It was a good experience for me, you know. I
learned about how I had, how the role of childhood
(10:23):
trauma played in my sex addiction. I learned about how
I wasn't just a man with no morals or ethics
that I actually was. I had a disease or a
medical condition that I was suffering from. I learned about
sexual anorexia, and you know, and some of the challenges
I had and being in relationships because I had so
(10:44):
much shame over where the disease of addiction brought me,
you know, and I learned about how the harms of pornography.
And I think most importantly what I experienced there Sino
was I was around other men like me who acted
out the same way, and maybe for the first time ever,
I didn't feel so alone. And you know, I made
(11:06):
the decision, you know, to move out to Los Angeles,
and I wish I could tell you that everything fucking
turned out. My goodness, I wish I could tell that story.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
We're just warming up, brother, It was just warming up.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
It got worse, and it got much worse, you know,
and I can't believe it could get much worse than
it did. And over the next few years it got
really really dark. You know. I got introduced to crystal
meth and all of those shenanigans. I got tied into
the West Hollywood escorts scene and all of those challenges,
(11:47):
and it got really, really bad. And the thing that's
fascinating about that time was I was doing everything that
was asked of me to get and stay sober. You know.
I was working with an addiction psychiatrist, taking medication for
anxiety and depression. I was working with you as a
therapist that specialized in sex addiction. I was going to
(12:09):
alcoholics anonymous meetings on a daily basis. I was going
to sex addicts anonymous meetings on a regular basis. I
was doing the steps in the program, and I couldn't
stay sober. You know, the obsession and compulsion was so
much stronger than me. And you know, for many years
(12:29):
I was this chronic relapser and it was so hard
to keep coming back, but I did. And you know
it's interesting, you know when I think about that time, man,
I wasn't leading yet to sustained abstinence, but I was
(12:50):
absolutely in recovery. When I look back at my today
and I look at those years, those are actually the
foundation of who I am as a man today. That
perseverance to never give up, that ability to keep coming back.
I would leave emergency rooms with fucking wristbands from the
hospital on my wrist and go straight to a fucking meeting,
(13:14):
walking in there on my hands and fucking knees. It
is in those moments where I found that power within
me to persevere, and as painful as it was and
as hard as it was, I mean it has shaped
and molded me into the man I am today. And
so when I think about that man, and I think
(13:35):
about all the fucking guys who help me, I think
about the power of community. The men in those meetings
who loved me when I could not love myself, Those
men who welt in me back with open arms time
and time again, those men who invited me to their
(13:56):
homes on the holidays when I had nowhere else to
fucking go. I had such little fuck self esteem. Man,
I ain't seen my family in years. Those guys, like,
fuck my goodness, they saved my life. They saved my life.
I wouldn't be here today without those men. I mean, heroes, angels.
(14:19):
You know, you never know the effect you could have
on someone else when they're hurting, when you reach out
your hand, and so, you know, I mean they helped me,
they carried me, and here we are today. And it's
such a it's such a beautiful story because my whole
life today is based on how those men helped me.
(14:40):
And so I didn't give up. You know, I always
joke I could sell my newcomer chips back to the
home office and retired and.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Yeah, I mean it's we laugh about it, Yeah, but
it's fucking brutal.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
I mean, you know many times your mom called me
if you heard from my son, you know, and you
play hard. I mean, you give your car up, you
take a television off, you don't buck around, dude, Steve.
Before we go into valor in your amazing recovery, I
think it's important for the audience to hear that last
episode been sure of Boulevard?
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Right, yeah, sure, can we do that? Yeah, that was
the last one.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
It's it's dark, it's dark. Yeah, and you know it would.
I'll tell the story. You know. I went to my
morning AA meeting, which I do at seven am almost
every day, and dude, old school AA is the best, right,
I mean, you got old timers there seven am on
a Tuesday morning. I mean, just good stuff, right, always
(15:41):
leaving that meeting in a good, healthy place, saying the
serenity prayer, looking in each other's eyes, same thing with
the group we have with SAA, dude, and what a
great way to start the day. And I left that off.
I left that meeting, I drove to my office in
Beverly Hills, and you know, at that time, I'm sure
(16:02):
I had you know, maybe four or five six months
of sobriety underneath my belt, as I normally did at
that time and before struggling again and complete resolved that
day to stay sober. And I noticed as the day
went on, you know, I, you know, I so struggled
with using sexual euphoric recall to deal with emotional turmoil.
(16:28):
And yeah, so I'm at work and I remember, and
then all of a sudden, by noon, I start recalling
memories of past acting out experiences. I you know, in
many ways, my mind was so diseased. I had this
library of memories in my head that I can draw
upon it any time to get high, and so dark
(16:49):
sexual fantasy was like my drug of choice. I dealt
with my emotional condition based on that kind of e
fork recall. And of course I start doing the dance
mid day at work. And the problem with a guy
like me is that that kind of fork recall can
take on a life of its own. Dancing with those
(17:09):
memories can be dangerous for a guy like me. And
so by the end of the day, with not talking
to a guy in program and just playing with those thoughts,
I mean, I'm drooling right now, and so so here
I am at the end of the work day, and dude,
I'm ready to go back out. And so even after
being in a really good place, I made the decision
to go visit Candy Cocks. I mean, can not that out,
(17:33):
but there's a lot of people out there named Candy Cox.
I would imagine in.
Speaker 5 (17:38):
The prostitute world, what you guys do, what you got
to do with that and familiar West Hollywood kind of place,
and you know it, went there and did my dance
of kind of porn and you know, acting out sexually
and doing cocaine and been there for a few hours,
and made my way over to another prostest place in
(17:59):
West hollyoo doing the dance again there with cocaine now
crystal meth.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
And it's on, you know. And then I ended up
after leaving there, walking the streets of Hollywood. What was
for a few days and which I did a lot
is you're aware of because you scooed me up from
a two of those walkabouts. And you know, I ended
up in a North Hollywood in a crack then and
(18:27):
smoking crystal meth and in the corner watching men have sex,
and you know, broken up for days, not knowing where
I am, and outside in the vestibule or courtyard. I
hear a laugh, and you know, I don't know whether
it was the drugs talking or what. I heard a
(18:49):
little boy laughing. And I looked out the window and
a little boy was king a soccer ball with his dad.
Fuck And I watched them, and I watched sat back
down listening to that laugh, and it broke me. The
(19:09):
innocence of that laugh. You know, how far had I
fallen from any type of innocence in my life? And
I remember a tear rolling down my face and that
warm genior against my kind of cold body, and more
(19:29):
tears began to follow, and it just recognized where I
was one more time. Thousands of AA meetings, thousands of
SAA meetings, treatment rehab therapists, countless dollars spent on care,
(19:50):
and here I was, one more time, up for days,
engaging in sexual behaviors that are so demoralizing and humiliating,
exposing myself to diseases, scaring the living shit out of
my family. One more time. I got up from sitting
down and I left the apartment, and I walked over
(20:12):
to the father and then just said, I'm sorry. I'm
sure he was scared, Like what is. I'm sure I
didn't look very good being up for days. You're thinking
about what I was apologizing for. You know, part of
me thinks, looking back, you know, I was perhaps apologizing
for the man I'd become, or maybe I was apologizing
(20:34):
to him that his son had to be so close
to that darkness. I'm not really sure. I walked outside,
and you know it, it was now rush hour. You know,
I made the decision it was time to end my life.
What was the point? I kind of this is years
now in the making. I really really tried, so you know,
(20:56):
I really tried. I gave everything I had to do,
and here I am once again, like, how the fuck
I don't have another recovery in me. Dude, I'm gonna
have to go to the emergency room. I'm gonna have
to go to detox. I had to go back to
residential treatment. I'm probably gonna get fucking fired. I just
(21:16):
I can't do this anymore. I'm too tired. And you know,
I walked to the curb and I remember I had
a conversation with my mom and I just said, Mom,
I tried, I'm sorry, this will be better for all
of us, and I meant it, I really meant it.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
I had nothing left. I had nothing left in me,
and I'm a fighter dude, had nothing left in me.
And you know, I think about as I built up
the courage, which is not really courage to take that
final step. And right in front of me, a Ford
Explorer hit another car and rolled on its side. Obviously shocked.
(22:04):
I hobbled over to the car.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
And I say hobbled because I'd been up for four
or five days and my toast is wearing dress shoes
were kind of broken. I hobbled over to that car
and with another man, pulled a little girl out of
the back seat who had been bleeding. I came to
shot of adrenaline. I had no wallet, I had no
cell phone, I had nothing on me. I don't know
(22:27):
where anything was. I borrowed someone's cell phone and I
called my mom and asked for help one more time. Yeah,
it wasn't my day to die. That's what it looked like,
my bottom. And that was how long ago, Steve?
Speaker 3 (22:47):
That was tin was fifteen, right, and you've been sober
how long now?
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Nine years? Nine years? Nine years?
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Man? Amazing, And let's just get in this. When did
you Let's just let's let's just let me before I
talk about your amazing company.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Buddy, What's the one thing that you did differently this
time that allowed you to say sober.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
Nine years that you didn't do before.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
You know, it's hard to answer that question, because, see, know,
the one thing I didn't do is I didn't give up.
I just didn't give up through all outside appearances like
you should give up the same fucking working dude. I
(23:41):
just didn't give up. And so I did everything and
I just didn't. I kept coming back, and you know,
I just kept coming back. I just kept coming back.
I just kept coming back. And then things started to
st and then, you know, it was this kind of
(24:04):
beautiful journey of learning how to experience like life. There
was so much that I wasn't doing in life. You know,
at this time around, I was actually able to begin
to experience healthy sensuality and healthy sexuality. You know, I
was just able to be you know, I started to
date and sober date, and I started to learn how
(24:30):
to have a healthy relationship with sex. I had to
learn how to these God given beautiful instincts, and so
much of this was transcending the shame that if I
felt that I was unlovable or inherently flawed or broken.
(24:50):
And then all of a sudden I started to kind
of get into a relationship and have my first sober
sexual experiences, and then again to my first sober long
term relationship, and then my first sober breakout and where
I began to truly learn how to experience healthy sexuality
(25:11):
and what an incredible thing. And then that was just
kind of the springboard for the life I'm living today.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
But when did the idea come into your head? You know,
You've always been a very savvy businessman, and when you're
sober incredible at what you're doing, nobody can touch you. Honestly,
When did the idea come to start valid recovery?
Speaker 4 (25:39):
How did that all t Yeah?
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Interesting? Yeah, yeah, So you know, in twenty eighteen, I
had this idea. I wanted to get out of my
old career. It didn't give my life purpose, and I
knew how to make money doing it, but it didn't
fulfill me. I wanted to find a way to do
(26:02):
something in recovery. Not sure what it was, but I
just felt like there was something. All these experiences I've
been to so many different treatment centers, I've been there
so much, I have so much to give back, and
so one day, this is a crazy story. One day
I was in Santa Monica, my office was at the time,
and my psychiatrist was in Beverly Hills. I had to
(26:23):
block off half a day to go to my psychiatrist
to renew well bututrin. So with LA traffic, it took
me an hour each way. I spent fifty bucks for parking.
I saw the doctor for fifteen minutes to renew well,
bututrit on the way home, I'm like, dude, this is insane,
(26:43):
man Like, why did I have to do this? Why
couldn't I just do it? You and I are doing
right now. And so I had the idea on why
isn't telebehavioral health being used with behavioral health? And so
I just started doing a deep dive around that, and
it wasn't The efficacyving wasn't proven, and surance companies weren't
reimbursing for it. And so I had this But the
(27:06):
VA had been using telebehavioral help for decades with their vets,
and they had all this data that it worked incredibly well.
So I had this idea. I said, why don't I
start a substance use disorder intensive outpatient program and do
it all virtually. This is long before COVID, right, and
(27:29):
so I teamed up with an organization, Freedom Institute in
New York. They'd been around for fifty years in the space.
I knew that chairman of the board from AA loved
the idea. We teamed up with it. Incredible idea in market.
Before COVID were virtual IOP, nobody was doing it. I mean,
the idea, I thought, my goodness, Well, once COVID happened,
(27:53):
the whole world kind of embraced this technology and we
did okay, but we just didn't have staying power. So
we ended up shutting the business down a few years ago.
And it was really really hard. It was really hard
for me. It was really hard if I mean I
(28:14):
felt I mean, I felt so bad about myself that
so much shame came up. You know, recently married, I
got a family to provide for. I went all in
on this startup, double down, triple down. There's no freaking
way I'm going to fail here. And it failed. I said, okay,
like now what and now what? And you know, it
(28:38):
really dawned on me. I wasn't able to liquidate, have
a liquidity event with this business, or really find a
way for it to profit for my family. But there
was so much experience that came from launching a business
and building a business and learning what worked and didn't work,
And so that was the that the monetization was those experiences.
(29:03):
And then I started to think about when we were
in that space, we were doing a lot of work
with impaired physicians and impaired lawyers and in those communities,
and I always felt this sense of imposter syndrome, like, LI,
the fuck am I you know running this treatment center.
I'm not a doctor, dude, you know I'm a business
(29:24):
guy who was a recovering addict. I always had a hint,
but as I made there was just one thing that
I always felt so confident about my knowledge and insights
and vulnerability around my sex addiction. Always believed that I
was on par with anybody that was willing to have
(29:44):
a conversation around this topic. I just felt like I
knew it. This was the space that was meant to
be in there, and there was one thing. These are
tough topics to talk about, but the radical vulnerability about
my story is something very special, and if I could
find a way to create a business around that where
(30:06):
we can leverage this founder's story to help break down
barriers for other men. It could be a great opportunity
to change the world. And so that's what I decided
to do. And so that that was the driver behind that.
The other thing that really always bothered me. You can
go to AA meetings around the world and they're amazing.
(30:28):
You make your way to twelve step recovery around sex addiction,
seventh and love addiction rooms around this country, that is
not the same. The rooms are empty around this country.
The quality of the recovery is poor around this country.
They're mixed meetings the world. We lived in in Los Angeles,
(30:51):
I mean, it's like the recovery capital the world. Those
s meetings are breathtaking. That's not what exists around this country.
And so there was such an opportunity to bring additional
resources around sexual compulsivity, sex addiction and using a virtual platform,
which I had a bunch of experience with with that
old prior company, And that was the thinking behind it.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
Wow, and how long has it been in existence now?
Speaker 1 (31:19):
We have been up and run for a little over
two years and we've worked with over three hundred clients
over two years, and we're growing and growing fast. And
it's really I have brought on what Valor Recovery does.
It's a coaching and pure support system and to really
(31:40):
help men dealing with a range of challenges from pornt abuse,
sexual compulsivity, sex and love addictions, and intimacy disorders. And
the mission behind Valor Recovery is to really empower men
to learn how to experience healthy intimacy, healthy sexuality, and
(32:01):
healthy masculinity. And so the uniqueness behind that is we
are you right. And so there's something so powerful and
I'm not knocking therapy. I've done a lot of therapy
in my life, but there's something powerful with one man
talking to another man saying me too. And so the
(32:26):
psychological safety, the empathy, the bond, the connection of that
shared life experience can be so powerful in helping to
transcend shame. And so a combination of you know, community
that we create, the coaching platform that we have, men
(32:46):
are doing really really well here and we're so proud
of what we've created. It's so rewarding, Cino, it is
so rewarding, and you know it because you've been part
of so many men's recoveries and lives when they try
and send the things that are keeping their lives small,
and so to be part of that experience is really rewarding.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
That's beautiful. Buddy.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Congratulations, you guys do extra. It's nice to see brother
theo Von give you a big shout out. That was impressive. Yeah,
that was great. But he's a very big fan of
your work that you guys do. I've got some questions
for you, stever, let's get into it. Let me ask
you this first one. Okay, why is pornography addiction so
(33:30):
difficult for men to talk about compared to other addictions?
Speaker 1 (33:35):
You know, it's there's so much shame. There's so much shame.
And we work with a lot of men that have
very strong religious beliefs, and the shame they experience as
it relates to their behaviors around their porrent consumption is lethal,
(33:58):
and so it is often misunderstood. It's something you do
in privacy. Right, You're not watching porn with your friends.
Come on over, guys, let's come out and watch them
porn out together. That might be fun tonight. You're not
doing that. So it's something done in privacy. It's something
done in secrecy, and it is shame based for a
(34:20):
lot of men. And I'll tell you what's really interesting.
The recovery from it is so hard. Think about a
recovery cocaine addict. If he had to get sober off coke,
but he had to walk around with cocaine in his
pocket everywhere he went, how hard would it be for
that person not to do that cocaine? Well, what do
(34:40):
you think it's like with your cell phone? So it's free,
it's easy, it's accessible with a click of a button,
and it's really really difficult. I think for so many men,
this is the hardest thing they'll ever have to do.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Beautiful and Steve in your experience, what are the hidden
costs of porn addiction beyond the obvious relationships self worth
and purpose? Can you talk about that?
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's a you know, the hidden costs
are are are interesting. A lot of guys don't think
about this, and so I'm gonna think about share with you.
Like what we see when a guy gets six months,
nine months, a year away from pornography. You see a
(35:28):
guy oftentimes get a big raise, go back to graduate school,
launch of business, Like, what the hell does that have
to do with you not watching porn? The answer is everything,
because what you're doing is transcending Shane when foe. Many
men experience porn and experience immense sen as a result
(35:53):
of their porn consumption. And what that does is that
feeds that narrative that they're inherently flawed. They see the
world through the lens of shame, They make decisions based
on Shane. They have trouble believing in themselves. And so,
you know, you know, the fascinating part of what happens
when someone gets sexually sober, they get to see how
(36:16):
porn has permeated every area of their lives, not only
their ability to earn income, their ability to show up
with friends in a meaningful and profound way, to show
up for colleagues, and so breaking free from the bondage
of that is an incredibly powerful experience where men's lives
come And I'll go even further, like, you know, I
(36:40):
don't watch porn today because if I'm watching porn, I
don't notice the waves in my wife's hair. If I'm
watching porn, I don't notice her smile. If I'm watching porn,
that little sexual energy that we have that banter when
she's maybe aching dinner in the kitchen is not there.
(37:03):
If I'm watching porn unless inclined to kiss my way.
And I'll be honest with you, if I'm watching porn,
sex is not nearly as enjoyable because I'm so fucking
charged up in my head, I'm not present for the experience.
And so when you talk about pornography're robbing of you
of your manhood, but your ability to show up as
(37:25):
a healthy man in relationships. What's the priced tag on that?
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Heymen, buddy beautiful, see if you mentioned it earlier, and
I absolutely agree with you about that last relapse you've had,
going to emotional recall basically the porn hub in your
brain and that it is a gateway.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
It's a gateway drug. Can you talk to listeners why
porn is a gateway drug to other things? Please?
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Here's what I believe to be true, and science kind
of supports this, right. So, porn addiction works off the
same part of the brain as drug addiction, that kind
of dopamine reward system. And so what happens is is,
you know, people need to tell me I needed to
watch porn with more frequency to get that same high.
(38:09):
I started to take more risks on where I was
watching that porn to get that same high, and then
all of a sudden, like these lines in the sand
that you said you would never ever, ever ever cross
get washed away because what happens all of a sudden,
poorn is not enough, and where guys go maybe they
go to OnlyFans, and then maybe they don't deal with
(38:30):
can girls, and then all of a sudden they're on
an escort website. I never ever would reach out to
an escort, and all of a sudden they're texting an escort,
and there's just this progression. Just like with drug addiction,
where you need more drugs and different types of drugs
to get the same high, the same thing exists with
compulsive sexual behaviors, and pornography is kind of at the
(38:54):
root of so much of this.
Speaker 4 (38:56):
Yeah beautiful now.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
I know for a lot of listeners are to go like,
how did this guy go from being with you know,
let's call it that last episode, you know, at three
different sites, doing really strong drugs, having all kinds of
different people, you know, being physical with and something that
(39:19):
he did not want to do. How did he forgive himself?
How did he move on, How did he say that's
not who I am anymore? Could you walk the audience through?
Because I know that was not an easy task for you.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
No, it still isn't an easy task. And so the
process of forgiveness takes time.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
For me.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
Step one, I had to stop engaging in behaviors that
weren't in alignment with my values. There was this process
of I just had to make a living amends to myself.
And that was the first step. And you know it's
in interesting. Sometimes I drift into remorse. I don't do
(40:04):
it with much frequency, Like I can't believe all the
money I gave away. I can't believe I did this.
I can't believe I did that. I mean, I can't.
I hurt my family. And here's the deal. If I
had one dollar more, one dollar that might have been
I might have bought coke with it, and that might
have been the line that killed me. If I had
(40:30):
one dollar more, I might not have met my wife.
If I had one dollar more, I might not have
launched valid recovery. So God is or God isn't. And
I had to get to a point where I had
to accept that my path was my path. I got
(40:52):
to a place where I accepted that I went through
everything I went through for a reason. Wasn't clear to
me then what the reason was. It's getting more clear
today what that reason is. But I went through everything
preparing me for this moment in time, and so there's
a purpose to everything. Yeah, and I have this incredible
ability right now to turn all that pain into purpose.
(41:17):
My journey to hell and back is my gift. Somehow
I survived. My job is to make the most of
it this.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Chance when you're doing it that a boy, buddy, Steve,
What's what's right now? Somebody listening right now, they're feeling
trapped by this horrific illness. What's the first step they
can do to end this vicious cycle?
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Talk about it? Oh, find a play, just talk about it,
you know. And you know, there are so much good
resources out there today to get help, whether it's a
therapist specializing in these challenges, whether it's treatment for these challenges,
whether it's twelve Step recovery, their online support groups, their
(42:02):
coaching programs, their programs like Valor Recovery. There's a lot
of good stuff out there. But the first step is
to have the ability to talk about it. With someone,
and so the thing that the way we kill shame
is shining the light on it and storytelling. And so
(42:25):
that's easier said than done. Right, Where do you find
a safe place to talk about this stuff? Right? It's
not easy? I get that, but you'd be surprised fucking
people in your friends group. I would not be surprised
if you're the only one having similar struggles.
Speaker 3 (42:40):
Beautiful Steve, what are some of the tools or practice
you've seen really help men reclaim intimacy?
Speaker 4 (42:48):
Confidence? Connection?
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Men need other men to be better men. Men need
vulnerability role models, Men need to run other men as
it relates to second compulsivity to transcend shame. You know,
these are progressive conditions that get worse over time, not
better if left untreated. And I believe you can't do
this alone. Recovery is a team sport. And so you know,
(43:16):
if you hear like poor an addiction, whatever the label
you're thrown at, it is an intimacy at its core,
an intimacy disorder, right and so so very naturally the
roadmap to healing has to lay the foundation in tracks
for connection and community. I believe men heal best in
community with accountability and so, man, you don't have to
(43:44):
do this alone, and it's so much more funny when
you do it together, you know. So from that perspective,
I think the power of community and healing is really important.
Accountability is really important. Having someone in your life that
you can check in with on a daily basis. And
I like to say, like, great coaching, right, you think
about your Phil Jackson, Right, I know you're a Lakers fan,
(44:07):
But great coaching is around creating inspiration and motivation for change.
It's about teaching new skills and holding someone accountable to
practicing those skills. So you feel and think differently about
yourself over time, and so we change by acting differently.
And so what are the behaviors and who can hold
you accountable to practicing new behaviors on a daily basis?
(44:31):
And so I think accountability is really important. Having people
around you to call you on your bullshit really important, right,
And so I think that's really important. I think using
filters on your devices is really important. It's not a
perfect fix, but I'll tell you what you know when
(44:51):
you think about how easily accessible porn is on your
cell phone, on your laptops with the click of a button, dude,
it's second your nervous system as an auto response to
dealing with life. Why would you not put a filter
on it at least to create a pause from the
thought and the behavior, right to break this up. So
(45:13):
I think filters can be really important in healing, and
so I think that's important. And then I think it's
also really important. You know, you know, guys can stop
watching porn. They have trouble staying stop watching porn until
they really understand why they're watching porn. You know, as
(45:34):
much as you think porn is the problem, it's it's not.
It's the solution you'll turn into. What's really going on
right now? For so many young men in particular, it's
that boredom, It's that loneliness, is that kind of frustration
they have of being disconnected from society, that they're just
turning to porn as a way to cope. And so
(45:59):
understanding though, why, I think is really important what keeps
bringing you back to porn and understanding that and learning
new tools, especially around you know, boredom, loneliness, being tired,
you know, halt. You always hear an AA great acronym.
Same applies with porn as well, understanding you why I
(46:20):
think is really important to make in progress to kind
of you know, getting some recovery in this space.
Speaker 4 (46:26):
Well, let's stay with that.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
That great themes here with young men, with porn being
more accessible than ever, how do you see this affecting
younger generations some men in.
Speaker 4 (46:33):
Your practice there? Oh my god, yeah, break it down, brother,
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Yeah, I'll tell you. It's a real problem. So you know,
we have a real problem right now. This is a
generation of young men who have grown up with free pornography.
You know, it's interesting. We created a program for young men,
the as Send program. I have a porn addiction. I'm
an older man. I go work with a therapist like you.
Often what's at the root of that is some form
(47:01):
of trauma, right, physical abuse, sexual abuse, emotional abuse in
one's childhood. Is that the root of addiction With so
many of these young men, they've had kind of really
normal upbringings. The trauma is the porn they started watching
at ten years old. That's the trauma. And what has
(47:22):
happened Cino is because of the ease and accessibility of it.
This is the generation of young men who have used
pornography and social media to regulate their emotions. Feeling sad,
click a button, feeling angry, click a button, feeling anything,
click a button. And so it is a real problem.
(47:46):
You know, it's very well documented right now that we're
dealing with the loneliness epidemic in this country and our
young men are in trouble. I think I wrote the
stats down here with numbers. Men are three times more
likely young men, three times more likely to be, four
times more likely to kill themselves, and twelve times more
likely to be incarcerated. So this generation of young men
(48:07):
have never been more lonely, their skyrocking rates of anxiety
and depression, and they're not doing well. You know, they're
being so outperformed by their female counterparts. Now that's amazing
for women. Oh no, not the women at all. I
mean kudos, but these younger men, this generation, they're not
doing well. They're not dating. I mean, look at these
(48:30):
stats right here. Forty of men under the age of
thirty have experienced porn induced erectile dysfunction. Two out of
three men under the age of thirty are not in
a romantic relationship. Thirty three percent of men under the
age of thirty have not had sex in the last year,
(48:51):
and so when you just think about these dynamics, it's
pretty scary. And so you've got a generation of young
men that are really vulnerable. They're really lonely, and what's
really unfortunate, Cino, they're so vulnerable to these kind of
social media personalities that conflate masculinity with toxicity. They're very vulnerable.
(49:14):
They're not they're not they're not evolving into healthy men.
And porn is not the only problem. Social media is
a big issue, and there are a lot of other
things that are feeding us as well. You know, remote
work is not good for these young guys, not having
an office to go to, not having mentors in the workplace,
not having the structure of going to work, they're at
(49:35):
home all day long. I mean, there's a lot of
moving pieces with this. But pornography is not serving this
younger generation, and so it's a it's a real issue.
You know, it's fascinating. You get a twenty two year
old kid coming to our program right now who've been
watching porn for the last twelve years, and literally it's
like stopping watching porn is like coming off heroin.
Speaker 4 (49:58):
You know, Yeah, let's talk about that.
Speaker 3 (50:01):
Steve, let's talk about the Let's talk about the detox.
Speaker 1 (50:04):
Off that oh fucking brutal for these kids. Dude. They've
been watching porn daily, most of them for years upon years,
and there absolutely is a physical detox coming off of
pornography that makes it really hard not to return to it.
And so a big part of the work that we
(50:25):
do is just being hyper vision with these younger guys
coming into the program so they can get some traction.
That's why not having filters on your devices, having accountability partners,
having resources that you could call in real time are
so critical, because the desire to watch porn will come
back and come back with a vengeance, because that's all
(50:46):
you know.
Speaker 3 (50:47):
Interesting, Steve, I think you'll appreciate this and understand that
this really broke my case is that it's a case
I had recently. A young man, a sweetheart of a kid,
was arrested for sexual assault. And as I'm learning more
about the case, his pornography addiction was so progressive. From
eleven to seventeen. He thought this was the way all
(51:08):
women wanted to have sex, was rough sex. And he
didn't know and he thought, you know that he was
just like a role play, he thought, and she's like,
he didn't know.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
And this is real.
Speaker 3 (51:18):
It's a real epidemic, man, And I appreciate you talking
about that. But that being said, what should fathers be
talking to their kids about right now?
Speaker 1 (51:29):
Yeah, it's a great question, you know, as a new father,
these are these are things I think about. If you
don't talk to your kids about porn and sex, if
you don't teach your kids about these topics, porn will.
And so we've got to take the stigma away from this.
(51:49):
You know, think about the type of porn that's that's
out there for these kids to see. I mean, the
rape porn, the threesome porn, the gang bang porn. You know,
what the fuck is that? I mean, you know you
can't process that at eleven or twelve years old, and
putting all the body image things in addition to them,
(52:10):
you know, And it's like, I believe that there has
to be you know, so interesting people say, well, you
have a position on porn, and you know, poor, I
don't know, dude. All I know is it doesn't work
in my life, and I haven't seen it work in
a lot of people's lives right now. And so you know,
this grassroots movement early on, just educating people, young adults,
(52:32):
teenagers about the truth about poor just the truth behind it,
you know about you know what, who are these actors.
These are actors that are probably high on drugs. They've
been sexually abused themselves, they've been trafficked themselves. This s
ain't so fucking sexy when you actually see what it
is and learn about it. And so someone we've got
(52:54):
to be out there telling this story around, you know,
the truth about pornography. And I just think more needs
to be done.
Speaker 4 (53:04):
Mm.
Speaker 1 (53:05):
Great. And by the way, it's not just ports. You know,
go on Instagram, go on x go on Facebook, and
the explicit videos on these social media websites is profound.
Speaker 4 (53:19):
M m mm hm hmm.
Speaker 5 (53:21):
There.
Speaker 3 (53:21):
What do you say to someone who feels they'll never
be able to live without it?
Speaker 6 (53:25):
I get it, get it, And I said, you know,
it's like maybe we just got to figure out how
to get to tomorrow without it, you know what I'm saying,
And just maybe that's the case.
Speaker 1 (53:43):
Let's shrink this thing down and and you can do
anything for one day. Yeah, that'smorrow, beautiful?
Speaker 4 (53:53):
Yeah, right on.
Speaker 3 (53:54):
If you could sit one message directly to men listening
right now who carry this secret right now or deep
in the throes of addiction.
Speaker 4 (54:02):
What's the message you want to deliver to them right now?
Speaker 1 (54:06):
You don't have to do this alone. You don't. There's
a better way to live, and it's possible. And I
promise you, if I can do it, you can do.
Speaker 4 (54:16):
It, beautiful.
Speaker 3 (54:18):
And let's end this episode with the love story. You're
a father, you have a beautiful wife. She's a big
part of your recovery. You guys are in this together, right.
I mean, what's that been like for you?
Speaker 2 (54:32):
Man?
Speaker 1 (54:33):
It's been incredible. You know, it's a you know, it's
been incredible. You know, God did for me what I
couldn't do for myself. It wasn't a coincidence that we met.
Both of both of us had to go through what
we went through to meet each other, to time in
their lives when we did, and it's been this incredible,
profound love story and it just clicked and we have
(54:59):
so much love to give each other. It is just
the best thing that's ever happened to me. And it
turns out I'm a really good husband. I'm a really
good man. I take a lot of pride in loving
my wife and honoring my wife and respecting my wife
(55:24):
and giving her and showing her the love that she deserves.
Speaker 4 (55:28):
That's beautiful, buddy. Oh I felt that and I believe it.
Speaker 1 (55:32):
Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 4 (55:33):
I know it's true. I know it's true. How can
people find you, Steve in your an incredible program?
Speaker 1 (55:39):
They can, you know, yeah, they can. We our website
valor Recoverycoaching dot com, and you know, there's a lot
of information about who we are, the work we do,
and you know, feel free to you know, everyone to
reach out and talk to me. Happy to have that
conversation as well.
Speaker 4 (55:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (55:56):
I just want to say there's nobody better in America
right now to address this than you and and and
if you're struggling with porno addiction, please call them. I
just I believe in Steve. I believe in his mission
and he knows the game. You will get love, you
will get non judgment. He will give you a roadmap,
and he will give you a solution and take advantage
(56:17):
of his wisdom. Thanks Steve for being on the show.
Brother God speak, God blessed man.
Speaker 1 (56:21):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 4 (56:23):
That is incredible. Thank you buddy.
Speaker 3 (56:25):
The Sino Show is a production of iHeart Podcasts hosted
by me Cina McFarlane, produced by pod People in twenty
eighth av Our lead producer is Keith Carnlick, Our executive
prouser is Lindsey Hoffman, Marketing lead is Ashley Weaver. Thank
you so much for listening. We'll see you next week.
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