September 11, 2024 • 76 mins
In this powerful episode, Seano sits down with Vernon Foster, a member of the Klamath Modoc / Yahooskin Band of Snake Indians. Vernon shares his incredible journey from a traumatic childhood filled with violence and despair to becoming a beacon of hope and a dedicated advocate for indigenous rights. Through his work with Buffalo Heart and Red Road Journeys, Vernon has touched countless lives, promoting healing and personal growth through ancient wisdom and spiritual connection.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
My guest today is Vernon Foster.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
He's a member of the Claimant Motich Motich Yahushkin Band
of Snake Indians.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Get close enough.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Yeah, he's a very special brother. And he's a brother
because we only say brother when we mean it. For
over forty years, he's been an advocate for human rights
and indigenous causes.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
He found a Buffalo.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Heart and Red Rony Red Road Journeys to share ancient
wisdom and promote healing and personal growth. Vernings teachings on
spiritual connection and self healing inspire people to find balance, health,
and happiness.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
Aim gave them a reason to live, gave them a
reason to step forward and say I'm proud to be
an Indian and I'm not ashamed to be an Indian.
And that was the burst of the American Indian Movement.
And when I opened the door, there stood depression, and
he looked at me and asked me, can I come in?
(01:04):
I should sure, come on in.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
I want to issue a challenge to listeners right now
to take a stand, take a stand and go face
to face in toe to toe with it.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
She took the back of her hand and she back
handed me so hard it cut my lips wording ring
cut my lip which I carry the scar today.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Welcome Vernon, thank you, thank you. It's to be here.
It's uh. You know, I thought we would just start
with something you and I practice every morning.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Thank you, Yes, thank you. Yes, so simple to start
in the morning, say thanks from the gate. And boy,
there's a lot to cover with you, sir. So I
want to set the stage for our listeners a little
bit because I know you so well.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
In your story alcoholic parents saw your father murder another
man in front of you. You saw your father put
a screwdriver in your mother. Yes, you saw a lot
of things sexually the children should not see. You watched
your brothers and sisters be taken out of your home
to different places. And let's flash forward to and we're
(02:15):
going to come back to all this when you and
your buddy decided, you know what, this life is too
much for us and let's go jump off this building.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
And what happened that beautiful night?
Speaker 5 (02:26):
Yeah sure you know that that was a whole change
in my life. It was like I was reaching the
end and.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
No hope, no hope whatsoever. And I didn't realize I
look back at it now, but that was a total
rebirth of my life. And it only took a few
hours to make that whole change was ready. I was
(03:01):
ready to end my life within moments when some situation
took me out of that put me in the hands
of Native people, and that just opened the whole door
for my life. And from that moment on, I've not
(03:22):
only given life to myself, but from that moment on,
I started giving my life for others as well. Yeah,
what a change, What.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
A change now?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
But I want you to tell a story what happened
when you happen with your buddy in the White Castle
and going to the Indian Center, because it's so powerful.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Yes, the way things.
Speaker 6 (03:45):
Were going.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
Throughout my childhood, to such dysfunction and you know that
sense of losing hope.
Speaker 5 (03:59):
My friend and I.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
I met a friend and he had a similar life
story as I did, not as intense, but similar, and
together we became such good partners that we decided to
do everything together. And one of the things that we
decided to do was to end our life. This was
(04:24):
in Minneapolis. By that time, I was in Minneapolis, Minnesota,
and the tallest building at that time in Minneapolis was
the I in S Building. The Sears Tower and my
friend and I we shook hands one afternoon after a
long period of talking and just kind of reminiscing about
(04:47):
our lives, we shook cans and made a pack that
on Thursday night, and it was Tuesday, Tuesday afternoon that
we made this pack that on Thursday we were going
to climb to the top of that building and we
were going to jump off. So we did. We met
(05:08):
Thursday and we climbed the building and got to the
rooftop and high as we can get and sat on
the edge and dangled our feet over the edge. And
you know, when it comes to that kind of situation,
nobody wants to die. We just lose hope. And that's
(05:33):
where we were. And as we were sitting there, because
we had that no hope, we're also stalling. Nobody wants
to die, Nobody wants to jump off the building. So
we were stalling, And in that process of stalling, we
started talking about our lives and kind of got to
(05:57):
a point where we were feeling sorry for ourselves and
we're going to do this.
Speaker 5 (06:03):
We've committed ourselves. There's no backing down. We're going to
do this.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
And so as we sat there reminiscing about these things.
My friend looked at me and they said, Vernon, I'm
kind of hungry. So I looked at him and I said,
you know, I am too. Why don't we go down
to white Castle, get some hamburgers, come back up, and
we'll sit here eat our hamburgers. Then we'll do it.
(06:31):
So we went down to white Castle, and of course
white Castle was closed, so the hamburgers weren't available. But
we did know that there was a meeting that was
being held every Thursday evening by Native people. Had no
(06:52):
idea what this meeting was. All we knew where the
building was, and we knew that after they get done
meeting they would have snacks and food and sandwiches where
everybody would partake. So my friend and I we decided, well,
we're just going to go in the building, go to
the table and start loading up on some food, and
(07:12):
go back to the I and S building. So we
strolled down Franklin Avenue and we found the meeting place,
small little side building, and we went into the building
and went directly to the kitchen to the table and
started loading up on cookies and sandwiches. And I was
(07:37):
reaching for a baloney sandwich, and this big hand grabbed
my wrist, and the sky had a.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
Huge voice, very native accent.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
Yes, ah, what you are?
Speaker 5 (07:57):
What you boys doing?
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Of course, he said, we're getting some food. And he
looked at us sa in the eyes. Big guy, he
stood seven wand broad shoulders. He was from Porcupines, South Dakota.
A big lookout the boy, and he said, well, you boys,
you boys can eat, but first you had to sit
(08:23):
and listen to what is being spoken in this meeting.
So he grabbed us and took us to the front
and sat us on both sides of himself, make sure
that we weren't going to get away, and we sat
and listened, not knowing what was happening. They see. I
(08:43):
didn't grow up with Native people. The only Native people
I ever saw was on television, the old Westerns. That's
what I pictured as native people. And here I was
sitting in a room full of men with red hair
headbands and red berets and long hair and braids and chokers.
(09:05):
And what I saw was sitting right in front of
me what I've always seen on television. Here it was.
I had no idea what was being discussed, but I
knew they were angry, and I sat and listened and
I connected one was because they were Native people like myself,
(09:30):
brown skin, dark haired, long hair.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
So I made that internal relationship.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
And following the meeting, we got to eat and fortunately
this man, this big Lokota man, his name was Roland Randall,
and he befriended us, took us under his wings. We
went and stayed with him for a few weeks, and
(10:02):
he just started to talk about the meeting that we
participated in, and he said that meeting was a movement
for Native people discussing, and at that period of time,
they didn't even have a name for their movement. Somebody
suggested CIA Concerned Indians of America, and then somebody opposed
(10:27):
that and said, wait, wait, wait, no, there's already a CIE.
And then I remember watching this grandma stand up and
she said, you boys are aiming to make change for
Native people, aiming shooting your aarrow forward.
Speaker 5 (10:49):
And then somebody said aim American Indian movement.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
So at that period of time, the meeting that I
was sitting in was the birth of the greatest movement
for Native American people in the history of America. And
from that day on, I began to relate to the
(11:19):
American Indian Movement and started to participate in the movement activities,
which at that time was isolated to the streets of Minneapolis.
They were starting to monitor the city police who was
(11:39):
taking Indians out of the bars, taking them down to
the Mississippi River and beating them and then taking them
to jail.
Speaker 5 (11:49):
So that was called the AIM Patrol. That was the
first AIM movement that happened.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
And as that happened, the popularity of the movement started
to grow national, and so they started calling AIM people,
which we referred to them at that time now the
AIM people to the West coast for the fishing disputes
(12:19):
and forest disputes, and started to travel outside of the
city of Minneapolis to where AIME grew so big and
so quickly that people started to recognize the quality and
(12:41):
what the movement was all about, making change for Native people,
giving Native people a voice. And you know, I saw
for myself so many men and women put down the
bottle and because the first time in history we had
(13:05):
something to reinstill the pride that we had almost lost
in meeting people, AIM gave them a reason to live,
gave them a reason to step forward and say I'm
proud to be an Indian and I'm not ashamed to
(13:26):
be an Indian. And that was the birth of the
American Indian Movement. And from that moment, my friend went
back to the reservation where he came from, but I
continued to stay involved with this movement. So the movement
saved my life. And because of that, I dedicated my
(13:51):
whole life to the American Indian Movement. I was born
into the movement, I can say, because that changed and
that was the birthplace of my life to the day
I die, and I'm still here. And so was the
American Indian Movement. The longest lasting movement in America. The
(14:14):
Black Panthers, they eventually fell by the loyast side, the
Brown Berets eventually broke up and fell away. The Weatherman,
which was a white political anti war movement, eventually went away.
But the American Indian Movement survived. And because it survived,
(14:39):
it had many arms, many chapters, and the whole premise
behind the movement that helped make that change was it
was a movement that utilized what we consider confrontational politics,
and that was wounded me. That was the takeover of Washington, DC,
(15:05):
Bureau of Indian Affairs, and all the occupations that we
started to do. Not only was it bringing a voice
to Native people, but it was making change political change.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
And from that movement, we were able to develop.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
The largest and the first ever Native American housing project.
We bought a housing project for one dollar from the
City of Minneapolis, a twelve hundred bedroom, a twelve hundred
room complex, and we bought it for a dollar and
(15:48):
turned it into the biggest Native American housing program. We
developed the Law Center, We developed Native American studies and
colleges and Universe cities. We went into the prisons and
started to develop spiritual programs in the prison system. So
(16:08):
AIM not only made change, but had made a great
contribution to where we are as Indian people. Not everybody,
not all Indians, supported the movement. You have your government Indians,
which were the tribal councils and the tribal chairmans.
Speaker 5 (16:31):
In fact, they had a.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Special word for the American Indian movement Aim for AIM
and for those that were being puppeted by the government.
Speaker 5 (16:44):
We were aim assholes in moccasins.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
So there was an opposition even within our own people,
but we are still here, right, we are still aim,
We are still developing pokem as Yeah, that's beautiful. At
the sixties and the seventies, that was a period of
time where we utilized and we needed to utilize to
(17:10):
have a voice. This means of confrontational politics, whereas today
this generation is using the education that Aim opened the
door for, oh wow, to make political changes.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Interesting, if I remember correctly, in my hometown of Phoenix, Arizona,
you brought a lot of awareness around all the children
that were killed there.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
Is that what I get right? Yeah? Because this is
you know, there was a time when in my later years,
jumping way ahead in my life, I became a leader
along with Dennis Banks and Russell Means, and then I
became a leader and I was eventually uh body and
(18:00):
to be the executive director of the American Union Movements
for the Southwest region, which included Phoenix and Arizona and
Colorado and different areas of the Southwest. Well, we were
instrumental and I had a strong, high profile and a
strong voice in the Native community to make change in Phoenix.
(18:24):
And one of those changes was that we bought attention
to the Phoenix Indian Boarding School that existed there in Phoenix,
and we brought attention that there were hidden burials, which
(18:45):
was the case for many of the boarding schools around
the America and Canada. And so we found the incinerator
where bodies were being incinerated. And so once the Indian
boarding school closed, we went in and started to bring
(19:08):
attention to these hidden burials and crematorium things and all
of that. So that was one of the programs that
we helped bring attention to the Indian Phoenix Medical Center.
We brought attention to how people were being treated by
(19:28):
the medical staff, which, by the way, Indian Health Service
was a part of what we can saw what we
call the Commission Corps. It's the core of the Navy.
And so one of the changes that we made was
(19:51):
in the Commission Corps they would wear their naval outfits
in the hospital, whereas we made such a fussl with
that that they negotiated and wearing the uniforms only on Wednesday,
where they were their uniform all right, Right, that was
(20:13):
a change we brought attention to. You know, at that time,
we were taking labels that we have lived under for
so long. It started to bring attention that some of
these labels that we were under, our derogatory terms, Squaw
Peak Cose a big mountain in Arizona. It was American
(20:38):
Indian Movement of Arizona that started to bring attention to that,
and we did it in the proper manner. We met
with the Forestry department that is in charge of you know,
city names or names of mountains. So eventually the name changed.
(21:03):
Now it's Piasco up Peak and Piasco was the first
Native American female to be killed in desert storm, so
that mountain was named after her, a Hope woman, And
so that was one of the changes I personally repatriated
(21:26):
from at that time. It was Governor Simington. I repatriated pottery,
burial pottery from him. And what happened was we got
word that he had in his collection burial pottery. So
when he was being convicted for tax evasion and they
(21:52):
started auctioning off all his goods, I and myself and
twelve other members the American Numan Movement, we showed up
at that auction knowing and prior to that we had
a connection in some of the news media. So we
(22:16):
contacted the news channel, set up a press conference, and
attended that auction, and I was sitting there and they
started to auction off all his belongings.
Speaker 5 (22:31):
Then came the pottery. I knew we would.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
Never be able to afford that partery, but we weren't
there to buy it. We weren't there to get it.
We were there to make a statement. So the auction
opened up for his pottery, and I was the very
first one that stood up and said, I auctioned one
(22:55):
dollar for that partery, and that kicked off the whole
auction for this party. And there was a man behind
me that was building it up, and finally it settled
for twelve hundred dollars.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
You know, I thought, our work is done.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
No, we're going to leave. So I got up, and
the group got up, and we started to leave, and
somebody tapped me on the shoulder and said, you better
go out the side door. The media is crazy out there.
So they took us to the side door, and when
we were getting ready to exit the door, they kind
of shoved me in this little room. I didn't know
(23:36):
what was going on.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
I don't know if they were holding me to be
arrested or what.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
Shoved me in this little side room, and here come
a man that I didn't recognize who he was carrying
a box and he came and stood right in front
of me and he looked at me in the eyes
and he said, I think this belongs to you. Wow.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
And he handed me that box and I opened it
up and it was the pottery.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
So two of our AIM members were runners. They would run,
and so we gave this pottery to them and said
take this back because it came from Tucson.
Speaker 5 (24:27):
He said, take this parttery back to your people.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
And they took that box of pottery and they ran
it by foot from Phoenix, Arizona, to Tucson to the
Tahuatam tribe Wow in Arizona. So at that time, we
were making great differences, you know. Eventually I came and
(24:56):
I helped the Nation Islam fery Con and his group.
At that time, we're protesting the CIA that was distributing
cocaine to the neighborhoods, and so I participated in that.
And yeah, so my action being on the front lines
(25:23):
as a leader of the American movement has also made
great change.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
So a lot of my listeners are going to want
to know, Ernan, how did all the trauma, all the heartache,
all the.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Unrest, all the everything that was taken from you.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
How did you get over all that resentment and bitterness
to be able to serve your community at a global
level and have a good life.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
Yeah, I think you know. As I.
Speaker 5 (26:00):
Got involved with the movement, and as I started to.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
I didn't drift away from the movement, but I drift
away to start my own life. And in that process,
I started to work in the mental health field, and
through that I started meeting and working with medicine men
and medicine women, and that made a great impact in
(26:29):
my life. And the first thing that I was told
is I have to have forgiveness and I must begin
to live with compassion. But it began with myself. I
felt guilty. I was living with guilt because I was
(26:52):
becoming successful in the things I was doing and my
family was still suffering in what they grew up with,
which was the same thing that I grew up with.
And you know, all through my life, because of the
(27:12):
way I grew up, there was always a little man
inside of me that said there is something better. And
one day he spoke so loud that I had no
choice but to listen, and I listened and that's what
(27:33):
made that change. That's what allowed me to find a
way to forgive my parents for not being the parents
they were supposed to be. And through that, I think
that's what started my whole life and I started to
(27:58):
look at what my destiny was in life. It began
with my name Foster. It's not an Indian name, Foster.
So I started to research to see how that name
came about to my family. It started with my great
great grandfather, who at that period of time were being
(28:21):
arrested and placed on the reservations or in Indian country. Well,
there was a whole line of native people that were
given numbers and given names, and my grandfather stepped up
to the table in front of the Indian agent and
he said, your name is going to be Johnson, Jonas
(28:45):
whatever it was going to be an English name. And
my grandfather said, no, US Indians, we have names that
have great meaning. I am not taking that name. So,
of course, at that period time, to object to the
Indian agent meant going to Oklahoma, which Oklahoma was Indian territory,
(29:11):
which had the largest federal prison at that time. And
so my grandfather he physically reached up on the table
shackled his own arms and legs and said, take me
to Indian country. Wow. Well, at that time there were
so many Indians standing around that the Indian agent was
(29:35):
fearful of Indian uprising. So he called one of his
military men and he said, private come, and the private came.
He said, what is your name? He said Private Foster,
Private Foster, Sir, And he said what does that mean?
He said, it means to nurture, to care for something,
(29:59):
to take care, to foster in its life, foster its growth.
And my grandfather is listening to this, he said, huh,
I take that name. So he was given the name Foster.
Oh wow. And so not only did I receive that
(30:20):
name historically, but I was placed in foster care throughout
my life. Eventually, later on in life, I became a
foster parent, fostering over two hundred and fifty children for
the State of Arizona, not just native children, but we
(30:44):
were the first Native American licensed foster home. So we
took many children. And now I look back at my name.
That was my destiny. And now now in my work,
I foster those that need fostering, those that are coming
(31:06):
out of addiction, those that are coming out of abuse,
those that are coming out of traumas in their life,
and the beauty of it is being the native person
and having this platform and be able to bring in
the traditional knowledge, the ancient knowledge, and the teachings to
(31:30):
help people overcome modern day society in which we live
today the issues in their life.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Destiny Foster, that's beautiful man. So you know, yeah, I
think I got this right. You were working in mental
health for seven years.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
At beginning for seven years, I've always had my foot
in the door in some way or other, whether it
was working foreign agency or doing staff development foreign agency.
I even worked with the top guns in Arizona to
bring uh sensitivity to their training. Uh So, many capacities.
(32:20):
I worked in the prison system with the inmates, and
uh so, my field of mental health has been being
a broad field. I worked here in Los Angeles for
a short period of time in the City of Angels
Hospital and you know, psychiatric institution. Uh So, I've never
(32:47):
lost the connection of mental health. I've just been able
to implement ancient.
Speaker 5 (32:55):
Teachings to help us understand what mental health is.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
Well, one day, when you were in your office doing
your work, Hollywood came and knocking.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
Yeah right, Yeah, that was a time. You know, I
was very serious and I worked with Family and Children's
Services and they were coming a movie production company was
coming to the reservation. And at that time I was
much younger and long hair, and I really had a
(33:27):
nice look to myself, I guess a native look, and
so everybody encouraged me go go audition. They were auditioning
for movie, and I had no interest. I had no thought.
My work was the mental health work. So I was
sitting there and I was writing a report, and all
(33:54):
of a sudden, I just felt like, what the heck,
what do I have to lose? So I went down
and I auditioned and I got the whole story en role.
So I ended up taking time off of work and
for six weeks I shot this movie with a very
(34:15):
well known production here out of Hollywood. And after the
movie was completed, you know, and in that period of time,
I made a really good friendship with the actor who
was Tim McIntyre. His father was the old wagon Master
(34:37):
from Wagon Train and very very famous Western actor. Now
him and I, Tim and I made such good friendship
that we stayed in touch all the time. I continued
for another year and a half working with Family and
Children's Services, and then one day I just.
Speaker 5 (34:59):
Got the feeling. Tim convinced me to move to Los Angeles.
Speaker 4 (35:05):
So for a period of time, I left Family and
Children's Services, moved to Hollywood, got an agent, and started
doing television and motion pictures and music productions, music videos,
(35:26):
and for ten years I stayed with that. In that process,
you know when people start out first in the Hollywood business,
they end up waiting tables. Well, I couldn't see myself
waiting tables, so I got a private investigation license. So
I became a PI bounty hunter and I worked in
(35:47):
LA running the streets as Compton, looking for people and whatnot,
all the time doing motion pictures. And so I lived
that period of time doing a lot of motion picture
and the beauty of it was keeping connection with the
mental health field. I made such good friends with celebrities
(36:13):
that I begin to once I stepped out of the
Hollywood scene, continue to stay in touch with them and
utilizing them to fund the programs that was developing. So
I made great friendships with many actors and celebrities, and
they've helped to provide funding for some of the programs
(36:36):
that I developed, and so I continued, you know, and
I surprised myself because I thought when I was done
with the Hollywood scene, then that was it for me.
No more Hollywood. No. That last year, I had a
call from someone here in the production and they wanted
(36:59):
me to come and do a Netflix film called The Jangle.
I had no interest, and I said, you know, I
haven't done this for many years and I'm not really interested.
And oh, he really want you to come and fulfill
this role. And I wrote them a rejection letter and
(37:24):
they said, okay, and we understand, and a couple of lates,
a couple of weeks later, I got this email.
Speaker 5 (37:31):
Saying, we really would like to have you.
Speaker 4 (37:34):
So I agreed. So the last film that I did
was last year. Just you know, it's and I never
wanted to get locked into something that would take my
life away. So everything I did, and I had this
(37:55):
concept in my mind. I was going to do whatever
I wanted to do or whatever I was guided to
do and be successful at.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
And you know, I'm happy to say I have got
Let's talk about your great story.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
When you talk about depression knocking on your door.
Speaker 4 (38:21):
You know, I utilize and this comes from the Native
American aspect of things, being able to take issues not
of just my life, but people's lives and utilize it
in a means of storytelling. And one of the stories
(38:41):
is the story of depression. Sitting in my room, and
let's go back for a second, the way I grew up,
the way I was placed in Foster Home, after Foster Home,
after Foster.
Speaker 5 (38:56):
Home, I had it was inevitable.
Speaker 4 (39:00):
I had to have depression in my life, and I did.
And I didn't recognize it until it come knocking on
my door. I was sitting in my room by myself,
in my apartment, and I received a knock on the door.
When I opened that door, there was depression.
Speaker 5 (39:22):
It didn't greet me by saying hello, good morning.
Speaker 4 (39:27):
It just came into my apartment, sat down on my couch,
picked up my remote control and started flicking through the
television channels, went interned on the radio, went and made coffee,
went to the bathroom, went and laid down on my bed,
did whatever it wanted to do, just took over and
(39:48):
when it was finished with me, didn't say thank you,
didn't say goodbye, didn't say I'll see you later. It
just left.
Speaker 5 (39:57):
And weeks went by, and I.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
The knock on the door, and I opened the door,
and there's depression with the whole box full of groceries,
went directly to my kitchen, removed everything I liked to eat,
put in the cupboards everything it liked to eat, filled
my refrigerator with all of its food, and again took over,
(40:23):
did whatever it wanted to do, and when it was finished,
got up and left. A few more weeks went by,
knock on the door. I opened up the port the door,
and there's depression with black clothes, hangers full of clothes.
Suitcase came in, went directly to my closet, took down
(40:47):
my white shirts, took down my green and red shirts,
all my colorful clothes, and hung his black t shirts
and his black shirts and his black pants. But this
time he was there to stay. That's why he brought
all his clothes. And so at nighttime we went our
(41:08):
separate ways. I slept in my bed and he slept
on the couch or wherever I wanted to sleep. I
got up the next morning, we're sitting at the table
drinking my coffee, and in walks depression and on Tuitively
I knew what Depression wanted to ask me, and I
(41:34):
didn't want to do it because I tried it.
Speaker 7 (41:38):
Three times. I tried it and didn't succeed. So I
looked at Depression and I said, SI, come sin, now
we need to talk. I said, listen, this is my apartment.
It's my coffee, my closet full of clothes, my television,
(42:02):
this is mine. Now listen, You're welcome to come here
anytime you want, but when you do, you have to
follow my rules. And with that, Depression got up, looked
(42:24):
at me and said I respect you, and I'm thinking why,
look at all you've done.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
Why And the reply back was you stirred up to
And I looked at Depression and I said I respect
you too, because I know how much power you have.
(42:54):
And with that, Depression said, I am leaving. And it
got a been left. Months went by and I got
a knock on the door and when I opened the door,
there stood Depression and he looked at me and asked me,
(43:16):
can I come in? I said, sure, come on in.
Depression came in. We sat down, had a good cup
of coffee. I went and got my guitar. Depression helped
me write two beautiful songs. I looked at my watch
and I said, it's time for you to go now,
(43:37):
right on, and depression got up and left. Does depression
come and visit me? Yes, because he's my friend. I
made a friend. I made an alley ally out of
what I've tried to make an enemy out. And it's
(43:58):
not just depression. It's anger, it's anxiety, and when you
break it down, it's feelings and emotions. For years, we
all try to push our feelings away. And when we
(44:20):
try to push our feelings away, we start to try
to make an enemy. And when we make an enemy
of our feelings and emotions, we are making an enemy
of our self.
Speaker 5 (44:35):
So anything we try to do and anything we try.
Speaker 4 (44:39):
To do good, we oppose it because it's an enemy
and we don't look at the good side what should
be our ally, And that's the story that I developed
to bring across the car on set. Stop fighting yourself?
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Yeah, right on?
Speaker 4 (45:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
I want to issue a challenge to listeners right now
to take a stand, to take a stand against your alcoholism,
take a stand against your acting out sexually, if you're
a cutter, if you overeat, if you gamble, if you're
prone to self negativity, self talk, take a stand and
go face to face, in toe to toe with it
right now, right now, I invite you to do that
(45:26):
through a great teacher. Here Now, I want to move
into this run because I think people you and I
talk about this a lot. You know, we've been blessed
to have success, We've been blessed to have long term sobriety,
we've been blessed to you know, not live in the
war zone. And what people don't understand is we have
to work on it every single day. And you and
(45:49):
I both still have triggers. And one of the stories
you talk about is the ketchup bottle. Yes, would you.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
Mind telling that story?
Speaker 4 (45:57):
Catch up? Bottle of Ketchup? Very simple, but so traumatizing
to me because I was in a home, a foster home,
and which at that time, you know, it was supposed
to bring love, nurturing and those things to us. Well,
(46:22):
it was my duty. It was my job to set
the dinner table for the evening dinner. And I did,
just as always, put everything on the table that was
supposed to be the bottle of ketchup, the salt and pepper,
the butter, all of those things, and my foster mother
(46:42):
came in and she looked at the table and she
looked directly at me and said, where's the ketchup? I said,
it's right there. It's on the table. I put it
on the table. I don't see the ketchup, said, and
it's right there. As soon as I pointed in my
(47:02):
finger to the table, she got offended and she said,
are you talking back to me? I said, no, no,
I'm just showing you. It's just well, it sounds like
you're assassay. And at that moment, she took the back
of her hand and she backhanded me so hard it
(47:22):
cut my lips. Her wedding ring cut my lip, which
I carry the scar today. Such a traumatic experience. I
was telling the truth, and here I was called I
was being called a liar when it was right there.
(47:45):
You know, out of all the abuse I experienced, I
overcame that I see a bottle of ketchup, and it
triggers a memory. You know what's so traumatic about that
memory was.
Speaker 5 (48:05):
I thought I was loved.
Speaker 4 (48:08):
I thought I overcame all those things and was being trusted.
And here, at that very moment, when I had already
settled in my mind this family loves me, they take
care of me, they watch over me, and through that moment,
(48:35):
violated me and took all of that away. And so
when I see a ketch a bottle today, it triggers
that memory. But you know, fortunate, being the survivor, that
I am unable to go to that memory but not
get stuck in it anymore. And we all have triggers, sure,
(49:00):
the weather, the sound of someone's voice, a color, we
all have these triggers. And it's a matter of being
strong enough to not deny those triggers, but to go
back to that memory and not get stuck, knowing you
can always come out of it.
Speaker 3 (49:23):
Beautiful Renee, how do you how do you mix ancient
wisdom with today's lifestyle and your teachings?
Speaker 1 (49:30):
I mean, you're doing it now. Could you break that
down a little bit more for us?
Speaker 4 (49:33):
You know, the most simple and the most powerful thing
that you can do for yourself to begin the healing
process is to say thank you. You know, I was forced.
I was forced to recognize that because two years ago
(49:56):
I had a major heart attack that almost took my life.
And as I look back, perhaps I was taking life
for granted, not taking care of myself just living spontaneously.
And it wasn't until I had that heart attack that
(50:18):
I've realized in my age today, I cannot afford to
not say thank you. I have to be thankful for
every day that I have.
Speaker 5 (50:33):
So no matter where I am, the moment.
Speaker 4 (50:37):
I open my eyes, the words come out of my
mind my mouth, thank you. And because I've turned that
thank you into a way of life, not something separate,
but I've made it a way of life, just as
(50:59):
we make brushing our teeth a way of life, something
that we do without thought. To say thank you, and
I don't have to give and break it down for
everything that I'm thankful for. If I'm sincere in saying
(51:20):
thank you, this great spirit creator knows everything that I'm
thankful for. That's the most powerful thing you can do
that comes from ancient teaching of the value of gratitude,
is to say thank you. And you know, that's the
(51:46):
most powerful and the most simplest thing you can do,
that comes from ancient teachings that you can do on
a daily basis in today's society, and everything I've for
that will fall into.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Place, beautiful, thank you, brother.
Speaker 3 (52:05):
Why are traditional ceremonies like sundance envision question so relevant now.
Speaker 4 (52:11):
When we really look at it, the sundance, the ghost dance, ceremonies,
our language, stories, our language. Those are only physical attributes
(52:32):
that remind us of the path that we live. Without
those things, you still have spirituality. But these things help
us to remind us and to enhance our spiritual growth
(52:53):
because for whatever reason, as human beings, sometimes we have
to see it. Sometimes we have to feel it to
believe it. And that's what these things are. It's like
I can be an ordained minister, know the hymns no
(53:14):
verses from the Bible lead people to the altar, but.
Speaker 5 (53:18):
That does not make me spiritual.
Speaker 4 (53:21):
I can have all these ceremonies, but these ceremonies and
all these things are not going to make me spiritual.
What makes me spiritual is how I live my life,
and living your life with values, living with values.
Speaker 5 (53:44):
Makes you spiritual.
Speaker 4 (53:46):
Today, spirituality has become a separate component to the way
we live our life. Native people, there is only one
way of life, and everything that we had included, and
that was our spirituality as well, was included into that
(54:06):
way of life.
Speaker 5 (54:08):
Then we were introduced to a new way of life.
We adapted.
Speaker 4 (54:13):
But in this new way of life, we begin to
learn to put our spirituality outside of our way of
living when it should all be one. So even our listeners,
if you're out there living a spiritual life, you're like
our indigenous people. You now find yourself living in two
(54:37):
worlds and to find that balance, and that balance is simple.
That balance is living a life with values. And if
you live your life with those values, that includes happiness,
that includes means and ideas and cons how to overcome
(55:02):
issues that we're faced with every day. It's all in
one package.
Speaker 1 (55:07):
You know.
Speaker 4 (55:09):
We have to live it. We have to live our ceremony.
And you know I came up with a quote many
years ago that carries so much weight, and that is
on the spiritual path. We must be willing to compromise
(55:30):
our lifestyle to commodate our spiritual path. But we must
not be willing to compromise our spiritual path to accommodate
our lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (55:46):
Straight up, brother, Yeah, let's keep on that thing.
Speaker 3 (55:52):
Can we talk about You talked about it on Saturday
at the workshop here at shell Grandmother's Blood.
Speaker 4 (55:57):
Yes, that was powerful man. You know this is really important,
especially in this day of age where is men are
trying to reclaim their masculinity. Women have already started that movement.
They started to recognize the female in themselves and the
(56:18):
power that they carry. But it's time us men. And
so one of the things that I share is, let's
go back into a male lineage. Every man has a grandmother,
a mother, a great great grandmother, and a great great
(56:40):
great great grandmother. And that great great great grandmother she
drank the water from the springs, from the streams, and
when she put that water in her body, it turned
into her blood and through generations, that blood is handed
(57:04):
down even in the male lineage. I have my great
great grandmother's blood in my body. And when we have
that component in our body, that basically is saying I
(57:25):
have a female inside of me. I have my grandmother,
I have my mother, I have my sisters, I have
my female lineage in my body. And I recognize that
because it is through my great great great grandmother that
I have the ability to be a sensitive male, to
(57:48):
be a gentle male. And because I recognize that, it
allows me the gift that our women already have but
I able to acquire is intuition. Male intuition comes from
your great great great grandmother.
Speaker 7 (58:10):
And so.
Speaker 4 (58:12):
I recognize these sides of me, which allows me to
respect our women and to see in the traditional manner
our women, being our sisters, our life givers. Allows me
to respect them, but it also allows me to recognize
(58:34):
the female inside of me without losing my masculinity. That's
very important for us men today.
Speaker 1 (58:45):
You know, thank you. You know, we talk a lot
on the show about boundaries and the power of this
word called no yes. And I know for you you
started with us earlier.
Speaker 3 (58:58):
As more success came, you've always remained humble, but you
had family members that didn't choose this path of awareness, yes,
of reconciliation, of forgiveness and you and you know we
talked about compassion attachment and you know, kept giving them fifties,
right and then can you kind of walk through people
when you have to say no to people?
Speaker 4 (59:17):
And we need to take a break and yeah, well,
you know, and as Native people, we are taught never
pray for yourself because somebody else is praying for you,
which covers your prayer. You know. Yes, uh, I realized
(59:41):
in time that I was enabling my brothers, enabling my
sisters to continue their lifestyle which was alcohol, partying drugs,
because there was something missing in me that was the
need to be accepted, the need to be loved by
(01:00:04):
own family members. And because of that, because I was
working so hard at that, I didn't have a life.
It was their life I was living. Mine wasn't mine.
It was their sickness that I carried, not mine. And
(01:00:25):
I had to realize that, and I had to cut
them loose in order to find that. And I realized,
and you know, going back to your question about ceremony,
that's what ceremony is all about. I can't drag them
to become healed. I can't take them and force them
(01:00:46):
for their own healing. So what I can do is
during ceremonies is sing for them, pray for them, offer
for them. Those are the things that being ceremony is about.
And one day, just like our prayers are answered, not
(01:01:07):
on our time limit, but on Creator's time limit, perhaps
one day.
Speaker 5 (01:01:13):
My brothers and sisters they will stop that.
Speaker 4 (01:01:18):
And you know, the beauty of it is, even though
I'm not bonded with my brothers and sisters, and I
don't know them that well, because once we were separated
as children, we didn't know each other. I know my
sister is no longer drinking. She's older than I am,
so maybe age has to do with it, but I
(01:01:40):
don't think so. I think prayer had to do with it.
The more I offered it ceremony for healing for my sister,
and the more I prayed for her, I think what
I see today are the results of that.
Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
Beautiful Soverne.
Speaker 3 (01:01:55):
One of the many accompliments you've done is I believe
if I got this right, in every prison system there's
a sweat lodge.
Speaker 4 (01:02:02):
Now, yes, yes, there was many people involved with that.
I was just a part of helping out or I could,
but yes, you know, talking about the sweat lodge before
I talk about the prison system. I think it's important
to know that in America you have the National Veterans
(01:02:28):
Association out of Washington, DC, and it is through the
Sweat Lodge that they begin to recognize not just Native
American veterans, but for all veterans. That the sweat Lodge
has become one of the most successful geers for dealing
(01:02:51):
with post war syndrome. Wow.
Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:02:55):
Walk us through the benefit of that in your teachings
and doing the sweat Lodge and by the way's got
a sweat lodge coming up here pretty soon if you
want to DM and get some information on that.
Speaker 4 (01:03:05):
Yes, yes, well, you know, the sweat lodge is is
very ancient means that Native people we use to purify
our mind, our heart, our body, and our spirit. It
(01:03:25):
has always been used. The lawyers used it before they
went into battle, the hunters used it before they went
into to hunt the buffalo.
Speaker 5 (01:03:35):
Today it's still utilized and we utilize it.
Speaker 4 (01:03:39):
I've used it many many times before I met with
the governor of the state or with some diplomatic meeting.
So it's a means. It's a means through the sweat,
and it's such a ceremony that takes time to define
(01:04:01):
all about it. But it is a place in which
we per physically take the toxins out of our body
through the sweat, and through that we begin to purify
our mind and purify our hearts and begin to seek
(01:04:22):
those changes. It's a place of prayer, Oh beautiful, just
like for some the church there's a place of prayer. Well,
this is our church. It's a place where we go
to pray and to make connection. And we often say
in Indian country, you know, people go to church to
talk about God.
Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
We go to the sweat lodge to talk to God. Oh,
beautiful man, beautiful man. So I did a sweat lotch
with you, the first time I've ever done one. And
you know, I'm a pretty good shaped guy and can
handle some extremes. And it's getting hot in there, and
we're trying to hold a tent up and you're just
cool as a cute comber.
Speaker 4 (01:05:04):
How did it take it?
Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
A call as a cutecumber?
Speaker 4 (01:05:08):
Well, I think, you know, and I can't really explain
what happens, but I get to a point where when
I'm in the sweat lodge and the heat is so intense,
my body and myself start to cool down.
Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
Yeah, and I.
Speaker 4 (01:05:29):
I don't know, I can't explain it, whether it's a
scientific thing or if it's just something that happens.
Speaker 5 (01:05:35):
But yeah, and I think it's the power of prayer.
You know, a lot of times.
Speaker 4 (01:05:47):
People make the sweat lodge so hot it becomes distraction
to prayer. And so when actually, when I go into
a sweat lodge with people, I try to not only
make it comfortable without losing the protocol or losing the
(01:06:11):
intention of it, but to allow people to be able
to pray, you know, to be able to bring that
across without distraction. You make a sweat lodge so hot,
people are going to focus on the heat, and then
they're going to get scared, or they're going to get claustaphobic,
or prayer isn't in their mind. So you know, it's
(01:06:35):
a place of prayer. It represents the womb of Mother Earth.
So not only do we go into the sweat lodge
to take a journey to the four Directions, but by
the time we come out, it should be a rebirth
because we are returned to the womb of our mother.
Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
That's beautiful.
Speaker 3 (01:07:00):
So a lot of parents listen to the show. They've
got children, teenagers, they don't know what to do anymore,
and they're drinking, or they're stealing, or they're being abusive,
or you know, running away or different things.
Speaker 1 (01:07:15):
Or you know, obviously you know the drugs are so strong.
Now you know that better than anybody. What advice do
you have to the parents to talk to their children,
What counsel do you have to them?
Speaker 4 (01:07:26):
You know, I think it's so vital first of all,
that we look at our children. We are only caretakers
up there. They do not belong to us. They are
not our possession. But part of the colonial system is
(01:07:50):
to take possession of things my car, my house, my wife,
my woman, my child, and.
Speaker 5 (01:08:05):
Their creators.
Speaker 4 (01:08:07):
They belong to creator. Creator gave us children to take care.
Sometimes we do a good job. Sometimes we do an
awful job. You know, there is no parent university. But
getting back to your question, listening, listening to our child,
(01:08:28):
not cutting them off when they get angry at us,
but listen to why they're angry. You know, we don't
listen even as adults. We don't listen to each other,
let each other finish our conversation without throwing our opinion
in or cutting them off. And that's so vital because
(01:08:51):
part of the healing process is sometimes people just need
to be heard. Once you hear somebody and start listening,
you can prevent from the escalation of confrontation. Because whether
(01:09:14):
somebody is angry, anger is a feeling, it's an emotion,
and through anger, we oftentimes escalate where we're start battling
each other. If we just sit and listen and understand
that what that person is saying to us, whether we
(01:09:37):
like it or not, whether we want to hear it
or not. It's an expression they're expressing that anger is
coming out. Let it come out. Don't swallow it, because
if you swallow it, it's going to contaminate, it's going
to manifest, You're going to become sick. Allow each other.
(01:10:00):
And that's what we need to do our children. With
our children. You know, there was a time MTV was
popular and all our kids wanted to do was sit
and watch MTV, and so we fought it. We fought
at a long time. Why do you sit here? Why
do you sit here and just listen all day long?
All you do want to do is watch EMTV. Then
(01:10:23):
we got amongst ourselves and said, wait a minute, let's
stop fighting our kids. Let's encourage them. Why sit here
watch MTV? Why don't you go get on MTV? And
then pretty soon they got interest in music, they got
interested in that, and now our kids are all over.
(01:10:46):
We have great actors, great musicians because we stopped fighting
them and we encourage them, just like in our life,
we encourage to take the things that are bad in
our life and be able to turn that around, see
the other side of it, and utilize it.
Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
That's beautiful. Where can people find you.
Speaker 4 (01:11:13):
For I don't know.
Speaker 1 (01:11:15):
I love that about.
Speaker 4 (01:11:22):
I'm not up in technology yet, so I do have
a Facebook that I communicate through Messenger. So if somebody
befriends me on a Messenger, I try to keep my
Facebook for that so that we can follow up on
sessions private sessions. We communicate through Facebook. I have an Instagram,
(01:11:44):
I have a website. I don't know the address to
those things, but if they're interested, I can get you
the information and yeah, and then you could passing on
to the listeners.
Speaker 1 (01:11:59):
All right, we just got a couple minutes left. One
of the things I love about you is song.
Speaker 3 (01:12:05):
Can you take us out in song? Do you know
the one we do in the beginning of ceremony takasha?
You know Pilomia, thank you.
Speaker 4 (01:12:13):
No no for you listeners, this is a song that
can help you and carry you throughout the day. And
if you sing this song, you are giving thanks for
every moment of your day. And it's very simple. Pilamia
(01:12:39):
and we say pilamia lo which means thank you. This
is Locoto language, and tonkashila, which is Grandfather, the Great Mystery,
the great Spirit.
Speaker 5 (01:12:53):
So if you can follow the melody. You can pick
up the words.
Speaker 6 (01:13:02):
Be loamae, pe loamae, pe lomaello.
Speaker 1 (01:13:21):
Hey.
Speaker 4 (01:13:23):
Tom cushi lo.
Speaker 6 (01:13:28):
Be loamaa loo, p loamaelo hei pe lomaea, p lama
(01:13:50):
loo p loamallo, Why tom oh gosh pe loama pe loama.
Speaker 4 (01:14:16):
You know you sing these songs and you put feelings
behind these songs, they will have the results that you
are seeking your life. For you, listeners is very simple.
You just have to follow your heart.
Speaker 5 (01:14:38):
Listen to your heart, exercise your heart.
Speaker 4 (01:14:42):
And becoming a part of your mind so that they
could work together in balance. Your mind and your heart.
They are meant to be compatible, and compatibility only means
working together. Your mind. Your brain that is your strategist.
(01:15:07):
It tells you how to do things. Your heart, that's
the intuitive side of yourself, tells you what you need
to do. That's the balance. Thank you for your time.
Thank you for giving me this opportunity soon, Thank you
(01:15:28):
for bringing me here today, and I hope to hear
from you.
Speaker 5 (01:15:32):
I hope to follow up and be able to share
with you more.
Speaker 1 (01:15:37):
Thank you, brother, Thank you creator.
Speaker 3 (01:15:41):
The Sino Show is a production of iHeart Podcasts hosted
by me Cina McFarlane, produced by Pod People and twenty eighth.
Av Our Lead producer is Keith carlak Our, Executive producer
is Lindsey Hoffman. Marketing lead is Ashley Weaver. Thank you
so much for listening. We'll see you next week and
My guest today is Vernon Foster.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
He's a member of the Claimant Motich Motich Yahushkin Band
of Snake Indians.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Get close enough.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Yeah, he's a very special brother. And he's a brother
because we only say brother when we mean it. For
over forty years, he's been an advocate for human rights
and indigenous causes.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
He found a Buffalo.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Heart and Red Rony Red Road Journeys to share ancient
wisdom and promote healing and personal growth. Vernings teachings on
spiritual connection and self healing inspire people to find balance, health,
and happiness.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
Aim gave them a reason to live, gave them a
reason to step forward and say I'm proud to be
an Indian and I'm not ashamed to be an Indian.
And that was the burst of the American Indian Movement.
And when I opened the door, there stood depression, and
he looked at me and asked me, can I come in?
(01:04):
I should sure, come on in.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
I want to issue a challenge to listeners right now
to take a stand, take a stand and go face
to face in toe to toe with it.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
She took the back of her hand and she back
handed me so hard it cut my lips wording ring
cut my lip which I carry the scar today.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Welcome Vernon, thank you, thank you. It's to be here.
It's uh. You know, I thought we would just start
with something you and I practice every morning.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Thank you, Yes, thank you. Yes, so simple to start
in the morning, say thanks from the gate. And boy,
there's a lot to cover with you, sir. So I
want to set the stage for our listeners a little
bit because I know you so well.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
In your story alcoholic parents saw your father murder another
man in front of you. You saw your father put
a screwdriver in your mother. Yes, you saw a lot
of things sexually the children should not see. You watched
your brothers and sisters be taken out of your home
to different places. And let's flash forward to and we're
(02:15):
going to come back to all this when you and
your buddy decided, you know what, this life is too
much for us and let's go jump off this building.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
And what happened that beautiful night?
Speaker 5 (02:26):
Yeah sure you know that that was a whole change
in my life. It was like I was reaching the
end and.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
No hope, no hope whatsoever. And I didn't realize I
look back at it now, but that was a total
rebirth of my life. And it only took a few
hours to make that whole change was ready. I was
(03:01):
ready to end my life within moments when some situation
took me out of that put me in the hands
of Native people, and that just opened the whole door
for my life. And from that moment on, I've not
(03:22):
only given life to myself, but from that moment on,
I started giving my life for others as well. Yeah,
what a change, What.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
A change now?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
But I want you to tell a story what happened
when you happen with your buddy in the White Castle
and going to the Indian Center, because it's so powerful.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Yes, the way things.
Speaker 6 (03:45):
Were going.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
Throughout my childhood, to such dysfunction and you know that
sense of losing hope.
Speaker 5 (03:59):
My friend and I.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
I met a friend and he had a similar life
story as I did, not as intense, but similar, and
together we became such good partners that we decided to
do everything together. And one of the things that we
decided to do was to end our life. This was
(04:24):
in Minneapolis. By that time, I was in Minneapolis, Minnesota,
and the tallest building at that time in Minneapolis was
the I in S Building. The Sears Tower and my
friend and I we shook hands one afternoon after a
long period of talking and just kind of reminiscing about
(04:47):
our lives, we shook cans and made a pack that
on Thursday night, and it was Tuesday, Tuesday afternoon that
we made this pack that on Thursday we were going
to climb to the top of that building and we
were going to jump off. So we did. We met
(05:08):
Thursday and we climbed the building and got to the
rooftop and high as we can get and sat on
the edge and dangled our feet over the edge. And
you know, when it comes to that kind of situation,
nobody wants to die. We just lose hope. And that's
(05:33):
where we were. And as we were sitting there, because
we had that no hope, we're also stalling. Nobody wants
to die, Nobody wants to jump off the building. So
we were stalling, And in that process of stalling, we
started talking about our lives and kind of got to
(05:57):
a point where we were feeling sorry for ourselves and
we're going to do this.
Speaker 5 (06:03):
We've committed ourselves. There's no backing down. We're going to
do this.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
And so as we sat there reminiscing about these things.
My friend looked at me and they said, Vernon, I'm
kind of hungry. So I looked at him and I said,
you know, I am too. Why don't we go down
to white Castle, get some hamburgers, come back up, and
we'll sit here eat our hamburgers. Then we'll do it.
(06:31):
So we went down to white Castle, and of course
white Castle was closed, so the hamburgers weren't available. But
we did know that there was a meeting that was
being held every Thursday evening by Native people. Had no
(06:52):
idea what this meeting was. All we knew where the
building was, and we knew that after they get done
meeting they would have snacks and food and sandwiches where
everybody would partake. So my friend and I we decided, well,
we're just going to go in the building, go to
the table and start loading up on some food, and
(07:12):
go back to the I and S building. So we
strolled down Franklin Avenue and we found the meeting place,
small little side building, and we went into the building
and went directly to the kitchen to the table and
started loading up on cookies and sandwiches. And I was
(07:37):
reaching for a baloney sandwich, and this big hand grabbed
my wrist, and the sky had a.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
Huge voice, very native accent.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
Yes, ah, what you are?
Speaker 5 (07:57):
What you boys doing?
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Of course, he said, we're getting some food. And he
looked at us sa in the eyes. Big guy, he
stood seven wand broad shoulders. He was from Porcupines, South Dakota.
A big lookout the boy, and he said, well, you boys,
you boys can eat, but first you had to sit
(08:23):
and listen to what is being spoken in this meeting.
So he grabbed us and took us to the front
and sat us on both sides of himself, make sure
that we weren't going to get away, and we sat
and listened, not knowing what was happening. They see. I
(08:43):
didn't grow up with Native people. The only Native people
I ever saw was on television, the old Westerns. That's
what I pictured as native people. And here I was
sitting in a room full of men with red hair
headbands and red berets and long hair and braids and chokers.
(09:05):
And what I saw was sitting right in front of
me what I've always seen on television. Here it was.
I had no idea what was being discussed, but I
knew they were angry, and I sat and listened and
I connected one was because they were Native people like myself,
(09:30):
brown skin, dark haired, long hair.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
So I made that internal relationship.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
And following the meeting, we got to eat and fortunately
this man, this big Lokota man, his name was Roland Randall,
and he befriended us, took us under his wings. We
went and stayed with him for a few weeks, and
(10:02):
he just started to talk about the meeting that we
participated in, and he said that meeting was a movement
for Native people discussing, and at that period of time,
they didn't even have a name for their movement. Somebody
suggested CIA Concerned Indians of America, and then somebody opposed
(10:27):
that and said, wait, wait, wait, no, there's already a CIE.
And then I remember watching this grandma stand up and
she said, you boys are aiming to make change for
Native people, aiming shooting your aarrow forward.
Speaker 5 (10:49):
And then somebody said aim American Indian movement.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
So at that period of time, the meeting that I
was sitting in was the birth of the greatest movement
for Native American people in the history of America. And
from that day on, I began to relate to the
(11:19):
American Indian Movement and started to participate in the movement activities,
which at that time was isolated to the streets of Minneapolis.
They were starting to monitor the city police who was
(11:39):
taking Indians out of the bars, taking them down to
the Mississippi River and beating them and then taking them
to jail.
Speaker 5 (11:49):
So that was called the AIM Patrol. That was the
first AIM movement that happened.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
And as that happened, the popularity of the movement started
to grow national, and so they started calling AIM people,
which we referred to them at that time now the
AIM people to the West coast for the fishing disputes
(12:19):
and forest disputes, and started to travel outside of the
city of Minneapolis to where AIME grew so big and
so quickly that people started to recognize the quality and
(12:41):
what the movement was all about, making change for Native people,
giving Native people a voice. And you know, I saw
for myself so many men and women put down the
bottle and because the first time in history we had
(13:05):
something to reinstill the pride that we had almost lost
in meeting people, AIM gave them a reason to live,
gave them a reason to step forward and say I'm
proud to be an Indian and I'm not ashamed to
(13:26):
be an Indian. And that was the birth of the
American Indian Movement. And from that moment, my friend went
back to the reservation where he came from, but I
continued to stay involved with this movement. So the movement
saved my life. And because of that, I dedicated my
(13:51):
whole life to the American Indian Movement. I was born
into the movement, I can say, because that changed and
that was the birthplace of my life to the day
I die, and I'm still here. And so was the
American Indian Movement. The longest lasting movement in America. The
(14:14):
Black Panthers, they eventually fell by the loyast side, the
Brown Berets eventually broke up and fell away. The Weatherman,
which was a white political anti war movement, eventually went away.
But the American Indian Movement survived. And because it survived,
(14:39):
it had many arms, many chapters, and the whole premise
behind the movement that helped make that change was it
was a movement that utilized what we consider confrontational politics,
and that was wounded me. That was the takeover of Washington, DC,
(15:05):
Bureau of Indian Affairs, and all the occupations that we
started to do. Not only was it bringing a voice
to Native people, but it was making change political change.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
And from that movement, we were able to develop.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
The largest and the first ever Native American housing project.
We bought a housing project for one dollar from the
City of Minneapolis, a twelve hundred bedroom, a twelve hundred
room complex, and we bought it for a dollar and
(15:48):
turned it into the biggest Native American housing program. We
developed the Law Center, We developed Native American studies and
colleges and Universe cities. We went into the prisons and
started to develop spiritual programs in the prison system. So
(16:08):
AIM not only made change, but had made a great
contribution to where we are as Indian people. Not everybody,
not all Indians, supported the movement. You have your government Indians,
which were the tribal councils and the tribal chairmans.
Speaker 5 (16:31):
In fact, they had a.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Special word for the American Indian movement Aim for AIM
and for those that were being puppeted by the government.
Speaker 5 (16:44):
We were aim assholes in moccasins.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
So there was an opposition even within our own people,
but we are still here, right, we are still aim,
We are still developing pokem as Yeah, that's beautiful. At
the sixties and the seventies, that was a period of
time where we utilized and we needed to utilize to
(17:10):
have a voice. This means of confrontational politics, whereas today
this generation is using the education that Aim opened the
door for, oh wow, to make political changes.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Interesting, if I remember correctly, in my hometown of Phoenix, Arizona,
you brought a lot of awareness around all the children
that were killed there.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
Is that what I get right? Yeah? Because this is
you know, there was a time when in my later years,
jumping way ahead in my life, I became a leader
along with Dennis Banks and Russell Means, and then I
became a leader and I was eventually uh body and
(18:00):
to be the executive director of the American Union Movements
for the Southwest region, which included Phoenix and Arizona and
Colorado and different areas of the Southwest. Well, we were
instrumental and I had a strong, high profile and a
strong voice in the Native community to make change in Phoenix.
(18:24):
And one of those changes was that we bought attention
to the Phoenix Indian Boarding School that existed there in Phoenix,
and we brought attention that there were hidden burials, which
(18:45):
was the case for many of the boarding schools around
the America and Canada. And so we found the incinerator
where bodies were being incinerated. And so once the Indian
boarding school closed, we went in and started to bring
(19:08):
attention to these hidden burials and crematorium things and all
of that. So that was one of the programs that
we helped bring attention to the Indian Phoenix Medical Center.
We brought attention to how people were being treated by
(19:28):
the medical staff, which, by the way, Indian Health Service
was a part of what we can saw what we
call the Commission Corps. It's the core of the Navy.
And so one of the changes that we made was
(19:51):
in the Commission Corps they would wear their naval outfits
in the hospital, whereas we made such a fussl with
that that they negotiated and wearing the uniforms only on Wednesday,
where they were their uniform all right, Right, that was
(20:13):
a change we brought attention to. You know, at that time,
we were taking labels that we have lived under for
so long. It started to bring attention that some of
these labels that we were under, our derogatory terms, Squaw
Peak Cose a big mountain in Arizona. It was American
(20:38):
Indian Movement of Arizona that started to bring attention to that,
and we did it in the proper manner. We met
with the Forestry department that is in charge of you know,
city names or names of mountains. So eventually the name changed.
(21:03):
Now it's Piasco up Peak and Piasco was the first
Native American female to be killed in desert storm, so
that mountain was named after her, a Hope woman, And
so that was one of the changes I personally repatriated
(21:26):
from at that time. It was Governor Simington. I repatriated pottery,
burial pottery from him. And what happened was we got
word that he had in his collection burial pottery. So
when he was being convicted for tax evasion and they
(21:52):
started auctioning off all his goods, I and myself and
twelve other members the American Numan Movement, we showed up
at that auction knowing and prior to that we had
a connection in some of the news media. So we
(22:16):
contacted the news channel, set up a press conference, and
attended that auction, and I was sitting there and they
started to auction off all his belongings.
Speaker 5 (22:31):
Then came the pottery. I knew we would.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
Never be able to afford that partery, but we weren't
there to buy it. We weren't there to get it.
We were there to make a statement. So the auction
opened up for his pottery, and I was the very
first one that stood up and said, I auctioned one
(22:55):
dollar for that partery, and that kicked off the whole
auction for this party. And there was a man behind
me that was building it up, and finally it settled
for twelve hundred dollars.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
You know, I thought, our work is done.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
No, we're going to leave. So I got up, and
the group got up, and we started to leave, and
somebody tapped me on the shoulder and said, you better
go out the side door. The media is crazy out there.
So they took us to the side door, and when
we were getting ready to exit the door, they kind
of shoved me in this little room. I didn't know
(23:36):
what was going on.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
I don't know if they were holding me to be
arrested or what.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
Shoved me in this little side room, and here come
a man that I didn't recognize who he was carrying
a box and he came and stood right in front
of me and he looked at me in the eyes
and he said, I think this belongs to you. Wow.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
And he handed me that box and I opened it
up and it was the pottery.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
So two of our AIM members were runners. They would run,
and so we gave this pottery to them and said
take this back because it came from Tucson.
Speaker 5 (24:27):
He said, take this parttery back to your people.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
And they took that box of pottery and they ran
it by foot from Phoenix, Arizona, to Tucson to the
Tahuatam tribe Wow in Arizona. So at that time, we
were making great differences, you know. Eventually I came and
(24:56):
I helped the Nation Islam fery Con and his group.
At that time, we're protesting the CIA that was distributing
cocaine to the neighborhoods, and so I participated in that.
And yeah, so my action being on the front lines
(25:23):
as a leader of the American movement has also made
great change.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
So a lot of my listeners are going to want
to know, Ernan, how did all the trauma, all the heartache,
all the.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Unrest, all the everything that was taken from you.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
How did you get over all that resentment and bitterness
to be able to serve your community at a global
level and have a good life.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
Yeah, I think you know. As I.
Speaker 5 (26:00):
Got involved with the movement, and as I started to.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
I didn't drift away from the movement, but I drift
away to start my own life. And in that process,
I started to work in the mental health field, and
through that I started meeting and working with medicine men
and medicine women, and that made a great impact in
(26:29):
my life. And the first thing that I was told
is I have to have forgiveness and I must begin
to live with compassion. But it began with myself. I
felt guilty. I was living with guilt because I was
(26:52):
becoming successful in the things I was doing and my
family was still suffering in what they grew up with,
which was the same thing that I grew up with.
And you know, all through my life, because of the
(27:12):
way I grew up, there was always a little man
inside of me that said there is something better. And
one day he spoke so loud that I had no
choice but to listen, and I listened and that's what
(27:33):
made that change. That's what allowed me to find a
way to forgive my parents for not being the parents
they were supposed to be. And through that, I think
that's what started my whole life and I started to
(27:58):
look at what my destiny was in life. It began
with my name Foster. It's not an Indian name, Foster.
So I started to research to see how that name
came about to my family. It started with my great
great grandfather, who at that period of time were being
(28:21):
arrested and placed on the reservations or in Indian country. Well,
there was a whole line of native people that were
given numbers and given names, and my grandfather stepped up
to the table in front of the Indian agent and
he said, your name is going to be Johnson, Jonas
(28:45):
whatever it was going to be an English name. And
my grandfather said, no, US Indians, we have names that
have great meaning. I am not taking that name. So,
of course, at that period time, to object to the
Indian agent meant going to Oklahoma, which Oklahoma was Indian territory,
(29:11):
which had the largest federal prison at that time. And
so my grandfather he physically reached up on the table
shackled his own arms and legs and said, take me
to Indian country. Wow. Well, at that time there were
so many Indians standing around that the Indian agent was
(29:35):
fearful of Indian uprising. So he called one of his
military men and he said, private come, and the private came.
He said, what is your name? He said Private Foster,
Private Foster, Sir, And he said what does that mean?
He said, it means to nurture, to care for something,
(29:59):
to take care, to foster in its life, foster its growth.
And my grandfather is listening to this, he said, huh,
I take that name. So he was given the name Foster.
Oh wow. And so not only did I receive that
(30:20):
name historically, but I was placed in foster care throughout
my life. Eventually, later on in life, I became a
foster parent, fostering over two hundred and fifty children for
the State of Arizona, not just native children, but we
(30:44):
were the first Native American licensed foster home. So we
took many children. And now I look back at my name.
That was my destiny. And now now in my work,
I foster those that need fostering, those that are coming
(31:06):
out of addiction, those that are coming out of abuse,
those that are coming out of traumas in their life,
and the beauty of it is being the native person
and having this platform and be able to bring in
the traditional knowledge, the ancient knowledge, and the teachings to
(31:30):
help people overcome modern day society in which we live
today the issues in their life.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Destiny Foster, that's beautiful man. So you know, yeah, I
think I got this right. You were working in mental
health for seven years.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
At beginning for seven years, I've always had my foot
in the door in some way or other, whether it
was working foreign agency or doing staff development foreign agency.
I even worked with the top guns in Arizona to
bring uh sensitivity to their training. Uh So, many capacities.
(32:20):
I worked in the prison system with the inmates, and
uh so, my field of mental health has been being
a broad field. I worked here in Los Angeles for
a short period of time in the City of Angels
Hospital and you know, psychiatric institution. Uh So, I've never
(32:47):
lost the connection of mental health. I've just been able
to implement ancient.
Speaker 5 (32:55):
Teachings to help us understand what mental health is.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
Well, one day, when you were in your office doing
your work, Hollywood came and knocking.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
Yeah right, Yeah, that was a time. You know, I
was very serious and I worked with Family and Children's
Services and they were coming a movie production company was
coming to the reservation. And at that time I was
much younger and long hair, and I really had a
(33:27):
nice look to myself, I guess a native look, and
so everybody encouraged me go go audition. They were auditioning
for movie, and I had no interest. I had no thought.
My work was the mental health work. So I was
sitting there and I was writing a report, and all
(33:54):
of a sudden, I just felt like, what the heck,
what do I have to lose? So I went down
and I auditioned and I got the whole story en role.
So I ended up taking time off of work and
for six weeks I shot this movie with a very
(34:15):
well known production here out of Hollywood. And after the
movie was completed, you know, and in that period of time,
I made a really good friendship with the actor who
was Tim McIntyre. His father was the old wagon Master
(34:37):
from Wagon Train and very very famous Western actor. Now
him and I, Tim and I made such good friendship
that we stayed in touch all the time. I continued
for another year and a half working with Family and
Children's Services, and then one day I just.
Speaker 5 (34:59):
Got the feeling. Tim convinced me to move to Los Angeles.
Speaker 4 (35:05):
So for a period of time, I left Family and
Children's Services, moved to Hollywood, got an agent, and started
doing television and motion pictures and music productions, music videos,
(35:26):
and for ten years I stayed with that. In that process,
you know when people start out first in the Hollywood business,
they end up waiting tables. Well, I couldn't see myself
waiting tables, so I got a private investigation license. So
I became a PI bounty hunter and I worked in
(35:47):
LA running the streets as Compton, looking for people and whatnot,
all the time doing motion pictures. And so I lived
that period of time doing a lot of motion picture
and the beauty of it was keeping connection with the
mental health field. I made such good friends with celebrities
(36:13):
that I begin to once I stepped out of the
Hollywood scene, continue to stay in touch with them and
utilizing them to fund the programs that was developing. So
I made great friendships with many actors and celebrities, and
they've helped to provide funding for some of the programs
(36:36):
that I developed, and so I continued, you know, and
I surprised myself because I thought when I was done
with the Hollywood scene, then that was it for me.
No more Hollywood. No. That last year, I had a
call from someone here in the production and they wanted
(36:59):
me to come and do a Netflix film called The Jangle.
I had no interest, and I said, you know, I
haven't done this for many years and I'm not really interested.
And oh, he really want you to come and fulfill
this role. And I wrote them a rejection letter and
(37:24):
they said, okay, and we understand, and a couple of lates,
a couple of weeks later, I got this email.
Speaker 5 (37:31):
Saying, we really would like to have you.
Speaker 4 (37:34):
So I agreed. So the last film that I did
was last year. Just you know, it's and I never
wanted to get locked into something that would take my
life away. So everything I did, and I had this
(37:55):
concept in my mind. I was going to do whatever
I wanted to do or whatever I was guided to
do and be successful at.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
And you know, I'm happy to say I have got
Let's talk about your great story.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
When you talk about depression knocking on your door.
Speaker 4 (38:21):
You know, I utilize and this comes from the Native
American aspect of things, being able to take issues not
of just my life, but people's lives and utilize it
in a means of storytelling. And one of the stories
(38:41):
is the story of depression. Sitting in my room, and
let's go back for a second, the way I grew up,
the way I was placed in Foster Home, after Foster Home,
after Foster.
Speaker 5 (38:56):
Home, I had it was inevitable.
Speaker 4 (39:00):
I had to have depression in my life, and I did.
And I didn't recognize it until it come knocking on
my door. I was sitting in my room by myself,
in my apartment, and I received a knock on the door.
When I opened that door, there was depression.
Speaker 5 (39:22):
It didn't greet me by saying hello, good morning.
Speaker 4 (39:27):
It just came into my apartment, sat down on my couch,
picked up my remote control and started flicking through the
television channels, went interned on the radio, went and made coffee,
went to the bathroom, went and laid down on my bed,
did whatever it wanted to do, just took over and
(39:48):
when it was finished with me, didn't say thank you,
didn't say goodbye, didn't say I'll see you later. It
just left.
Speaker 5 (39:57):
And weeks went by, and I.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
The knock on the door, and I opened the door,
and there's depression with the whole box full of groceries,
went directly to my kitchen, removed everything I liked to eat,
put in the cupboards everything it liked to eat, filled
my refrigerator with all of its food, and again took over,
(40:23):
did whatever it wanted to do, and when it was finished,
got up and left. A few more weeks went by,
knock on the door. I opened up the port the door,
and there's depression with black clothes, hangers full of clothes.
Suitcase came in, went directly to my closet, took down
(40:47):
my white shirts, took down my green and red shirts,
all my colorful clothes, and hung his black t shirts
and his black shirts and his black pants. But this
time he was there to stay. That's why he brought
all his clothes. And so at nighttime we went our
(41:08):
separate ways. I slept in my bed and he slept
on the couch or wherever I wanted to sleep. I
got up the next morning, we're sitting at the table
drinking my coffee, and in walks depression and on Tuitively
I knew what Depression wanted to ask me, and I
(41:34):
didn't want to do it because I tried it.
Speaker 7 (41:38):
Three times. I tried it and didn't succeed. So I
looked at Depression and I said, SI, come sin, now
we need to talk. I said, listen, this is my apartment.
It's my coffee, my closet full of clothes, my television,
(42:02):
this is mine. Now listen, You're welcome to come here
anytime you want, but when you do, you have to
follow my rules. And with that, Depression got up, looked
(42:24):
at me and said I respect you, and I'm thinking why,
look at all you've done.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
Why And the reply back was you stirred up to
And I looked at Depression and I said I respect
you too, because I know how much power you have.
(42:54):
And with that, Depression said, I am leaving. And it
got a been left. Months went by and I got
a knock on the door and when I opened the door,
there stood Depression and he looked at me and asked me,
(43:16):
can I come in? I said, sure, come on in.
Depression came in. We sat down, had a good cup
of coffee. I went and got my guitar. Depression helped
me write two beautiful songs. I looked at my watch
and I said, it's time for you to go now,
(43:37):
right on, and depression got up and left. Does depression
come and visit me? Yes, because he's my friend. I
made a friend. I made an alley ally out of
what I've tried to make an enemy out. And it's
(43:58):
not just depression. It's anger, it's anxiety, and when you
break it down, it's feelings and emotions. For years, we
all try to push our feelings away. And when we
(44:20):
try to push our feelings away, we start to try
to make an enemy. And when we make an enemy
of our feelings and emotions, we are making an enemy
of our self.
Speaker 5 (44:35):
So anything we try to do and anything we try.
Speaker 4 (44:39):
To do good, we oppose it because it's an enemy
and we don't look at the good side what should
be our ally, And that's the story that I developed
to bring across the car on set. Stop fighting yourself?
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Yeah, right on?
Speaker 4 (45:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
I want to issue a challenge to listeners right now
to take a stand, to take a stand against your alcoholism,
take a stand against your acting out sexually, if you're
a cutter, if you overeat, if you gamble, if you're
prone to self negativity, self talk, take a stand and
go face to face, in toe to toe with it
right now, right now, I invite you to do that
(45:26):
through a great teacher. Here Now, I want to move
into this run because I think people you and I
talk about this a lot. You know, we've been blessed
to have success, We've been blessed to have long term sobriety,
we've been blessed to you know, not live in the
war zone. And what people don't understand is we have
to work on it every single day. And you and
(45:49):
I both still have triggers. And one of the stories
you talk about is the ketchup bottle. Yes, would you.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
Mind telling that story?
Speaker 4 (45:57):
Catch up? Bottle of Ketchup? Very simple, but so traumatizing
to me because I was in a home, a foster home,
and which at that time, you know, it was supposed
to bring love, nurturing and those things to us. Well,
(46:22):
it was my duty. It was my job to set
the dinner table for the evening dinner. And I did,
just as always, put everything on the table that was
supposed to be the bottle of ketchup, the salt and pepper,
the butter, all of those things, and my foster mother
(46:42):
came in and she looked at the table and she
looked directly at me and said, where's the ketchup? I said,
it's right there. It's on the table. I put it
on the table. I don't see the ketchup, said, and
it's right there. As soon as I pointed in my
(47:02):
finger to the table, she got offended and she said,
are you talking back to me? I said, no, no,
I'm just showing you. It's just well, it sounds like
you're assassay. And at that moment, she took the back
of her hand and she backhanded me so hard it
(47:22):
cut my lips. Her wedding ring cut my lip, which
I carry the scar today. Such a traumatic experience. I
was telling the truth, and here I was called I
was being called a liar when it was right there.
(47:45):
You know, out of all the abuse I experienced, I
overcame that I see a bottle of ketchup, and it
triggers a memory. You know what's so traumatic about that
memory was.
Speaker 5 (48:05):
I thought I was loved.
Speaker 4 (48:08):
I thought I overcame all those things and was being trusted.
And here, at that very moment, when I had already
settled in my mind this family loves me, they take
care of me, they watch over me, and through that moment,
(48:35):
violated me and took all of that away. And so
when I see a ketch a bottle today, it triggers
that memory. But you know, fortunate, being the survivor, that
I am unable to go to that memory but not
get stuck in it anymore. And we all have triggers, sure,
(49:00):
the weather, the sound of someone's voice, a color, we
all have these triggers. And it's a matter of being
strong enough to not deny those triggers, but to go
back to that memory and not get stuck, knowing you
can always come out of it.
Speaker 3 (49:23):
Beautiful Renee, how do you how do you mix ancient
wisdom with today's lifestyle and your teachings?
Speaker 1 (49:30):
I mean, you're doing it now. Could you break that
down a little bit more for us?
Speaker 4 (49:33):
You know, the most simple and the most powerful thing
that you can do for yourself to begin the healing
process is to say thank you. You know, I was forced.
I was forced to recognize that because two years ago
(49:56):
I had a major heart attack that almost took my life.
And as I look back, perhaps I was taking life
for granted, not taking care of myself just living spontaneously.
And it wasn't until I had that heart attack that
(50:18):
I've realized in my age today, I cannot afford to
not say thank you. I have to be thankful for
every day that I have.
Speaker 5 (50:33):
So no matter where I am, the moment.
Speaker 4 (50:37):
I open my eyes, the words come out of my
mind my mouth, thank you. And because I've turned that
thank you into a way of life, not something separate,
but I've made it a way of life, just as
(50:59):
we make brushing our teeth a way of life, something
that we do without thought. To say thank you, and
I don't have to give and break it down for
everything that I'm thankful for. If I'm sincere in saying
(51:20):
thank you, this great spirit creator knows everything that I'm
thankful for. That's the most powerful thing you can do
that comes from ancient teaching of the value of gratitude,
is to say thank you. And you know, that's the
(51:46):
most powerful and the most simplest thing you can do,
that comes from ancient teachings that you can do on
a daily basis in today's society, and everything I've for
that will fall into.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Place, beautiful, thank you, brother.
Speaker 3 (52:05):
Why are traditional ceremonies like sundance envision question so relevant now.
Speaker 4 (52:11):
When we really look at it, the sundance, the ghost dance, ceremonies,
our language, stories, our language. Those are only physical attributes
(52:32):
that remind us of the path that we live. Without
those things, you still have spirituality. But these things help
us to remind us and to enhance our spiritual growth
(52:53):
because for whatever reason, as human beings, sometimes we have
to see it. Sometimes we have to feel it to
believe it. And that's what these things are. It's like
I can be an ordained minister, know the hymns no
(53:14):
verses from the Bible lead people to the altar, but.
Speaker 5 (53:18):
That does not make me spiritual.
Speaker 4 (53:21):
I can have all these ceremonies, but these ceremonies and
all these things are not going to make me spiritual.
What makes me spiritual is how I live my life,
and living your life with values, living with values.
Speaker 5 (53:44):
Makes you spiritual.
Speaker 4 (53:46):
Today, spirituality has become a separate component to the way
we live our life. Native people, there is only one
way of life, and everything that we had included, and
that was our spirituality as well, was included into that
(54:06):
way of life.
Speaker 5 (54:08):
Then we were introduced to a new way of life.
We adapted.
Speaker 4 (54:13):
But in this new way of life, we begin to
learn to put our spirituality outside of our way of
living when it should all be one. So even our listeners,
if you're out there living a spiritual life, you're like
our indigenous people. You now find yourself living in two
(54:37):
worlds and to find that balance, and that balance is simple.
That balance is living a life with values. And if
you live your life with those values, that includes happiness,
that includes means and ideas and cons how to overcome
(55:02):
issues that we're faced with every day. It's all in
one package.
Speaker 1 (55:07):
You know.
Speaker 4 (55:09):
We have to live it. We have to live our ceremony.
And you know I came up with a quote many
years ago that carries so much weight, and that is
on the spiritual path. We must be willing to compromise
(55:30):
our lifestyle to commodate our spiritual path. But we must
not be willing to compromise our spiritual path to accommodate
our lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (55:46):
Straight up, brother, Yeah, let's keep on that thing.
Speaker 3 (55:52):
Can we talk about You talked about it on Saturday
at the workshop here at shell Grandmother's Blood.
Speaker 4 (55:57):
Yes, that was powerful man. You know this is really important,
especially in this day of age where is men are
trying to reclaim their masculinity. Women have already started that movement.
They started to recognize the female in themselves and the
(56:18):
power that they carry. But it's time us men. And
so one of the things that I share is, let's
go back into a male lineage. Every man has a grandmother,
a mother, a great great grandmother, and a great great
(56:40):
great great grandmother. And that great great great grandmother she
drank the water from the springs, from the streams, and
when she put that water in her body, it turned
into her blood and through generations, that blood is handed
(57:04):
down even in the male lineage. I have my great
great grandmother's blood in my body. And when we have
that component in our body, that basically is saying I
(57:25):
have a female inside of me. I have my grandmother,
I have my mother, I have my sisters, I have
my female lineage in my body. And I recognize that
because it is through my great great great grandmother that
I have the ability to be a sensitive male, to
(57:48):
be a gentle male. And because I recognize that, it
allows me the gift that our women already have but
I able to acquire is intuition. Male intuition comes from
your great great great grandmother.
Speaker 7 (58:10):
And so.
Speaker 4 (58:12):
I recognize these sides of me, which allows me to
respect our women and to see in the traditional manner
our women, being our sisters, our life givers. Allows me
to respect them, but it also allows me to recognize
(58:34):
the female inside of me without losing my masculinity. That's
very important for us men today.
Speaker 1 (58:45):
You know, thank you. You know, we talk a lot
on the show about boundaries and the power of this
word called no yes. And I know for you you
started with us earlier.
Speaker 3 (58:58):
As more success came, you've always remained humble, but you
had family members that didn't choose this path of awareness, yes,
of reconciliation, of forgiveness and you and you know we
talked about compassion attachment and you know, kept giving them fifties,
right and then can you kind of walk through people
when you have to say no to people?
Speaker 4 (59:17):
And we need to take a break and yeah, well,
you know, and as Native people, we are taught never
pray for yourself because somebody else is praying for you,
which covers your prayer. You know. Yes, uh, I realized
(59:41):
in time that I was enabling my brothers, enabling my
sisters to continue their lifestyle which was alcohol, partying drugs,
because there was something missing in me that was the
need to be accepted, the need to be loved by
(01:00:04):
own family members. And because of that, because I was
working so hard at that, I didn't have a life.
It was their life I was living. Mine wasn't mine.
It was their sickness that I carried, not mine. And
(01:00:25):
I had to realize that, and I had to cut
them loose in order to find that. And I realized,
and you know, going back to your question about ceremony,
that's what ceremony is all about. I can't drag them
to become healed. I can't take them and force them
(01:00:46):
for their own healing. So what I can do is
during ceremonies is sing for them, pray for them, offer
for them. Those are the things that being ceremony is about.
And one day, just like our prayers are answered, not
(01:01:07):
on our time limit, but on Creator's time limit, perhaps
one day.
Speaker 5 (01:01:13):
My brothers and sisters they will stop that.
Speaker 4 (01:01:18):
And you know, the beauty of it is, even though
I'm not bonded with my brothers and sisters, and I
don't know them that well, because once we were separated
as children, we didn't know each other. I know my
sister is no longer drinking. She's older than I am,
so maybe age has to do with it, but I
(01:01:40):
don't think so. I think prayer had to do with it.
The more I offered it ceremony for healing for my sister,
and the more I prayed for her, I think what
I see today are the results of that.
Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
Beautiful Soverne.
Speaker 3 (01:01:55):
One of the many accompliments you've done is I believe
if I got this right, in every prison system there's
a sweat lodge.
Speaker 4 (01:02:02):
Now, yes, yes, there was many people involved with that.
I was just a part of helping out or I could,
but yes, you know, talking about the sweat lodge before
I talk about the prison system. I think it's important
to know that in America you have the National Veterans
(01:02:28):
Association out of Washington, DC, and it is through the
Sweat Lodge that they begin to recognize not just Native
American veterans, but for all veterans. That the sweat Lodge
has become one of the most successful geers for dealing
(01:02:51):
with post war syndrome. Wow.
Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:02:55):
Walk us through the benefit of that in your teachings
and doing the sweat Lodge and by the way's got
a sweat lodge coming up here pretty soon if you
want to DM and get some information on that.
Speaker 4 (01:03:05):
Yes, yes, well, you know, the sweat lodge is is
very ancient means that Native people we use to purify
our mind, our heart, our body, and our spirit. It
(01:03:25):
has always been used. The lawyers used it before they
went into battle, the hunters used it before they went
into to hunt the buffalo.
Speaker 5 (01:03:35):
Today it's still utilized and we utilize it.
Speaker 4 (01:03:39):
I've used it many many times before I met with
the governor of the state or with some diplomatic meeting.
So it's a means. It's a means through the sweat,
and it's such a ceremony that takes time to define
(01:04:01):
all about it. But it is a place in which
we per physically take the toxins out of our body
through the sweat, and through that we begin to purify
our mind and purify our hearts and begin to seek
(01:04:22):
those changes. It's a place of prayer, Oh beautiful, just
like for some the church there's a place of prayer. Well,
this is our church. It's a place where we go
to pray and to make connection. And we often say
in Indian country, you know, people go to church to
talk about God.
Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
We go to the sweat lodge to talk to God. Oh,
beautiful man, beautiful man. So I did a sweat lotch
with you, the first time I've ever done one. And
you know, I'm a pretty good shaped guy and can
handle some extremes. And it's getting hot in there, and
we're trying to hold a tent up and you're just
cool as a cute comber.
Speaker 4 (01:05:04):
How did it take it?
Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
A call as a cutecumber?
Speaker 4 (01:05:08):
Well, I think, you know, and I can't really explain
what happens, but I get to a point where when
I'm in the sweat lodge and the heat is so intense,
my body and myself start to cool down.
Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
Yeah, and I.
Speaker 4 (01:05:29):
I don't know, I can't explain it, whether it's a
scientific thing or if it's just something that happens.
Speaker 5 (01:05:35):
But yeah, and I think it's the power of prayer.
You know, a lot of times.
Speaker 4 (01:05:47):
People make the sweat lodge so hot it becomes distraction
to prayer. And so when actually, when I go into
a sweat lodge with people, I try to not only
make it comfortable without losing the protocol or losing the
(01:06:11):
intention of it, but to allow people to be able
to pray, you know, to be able to bring that
across without distraction. You make a sweat lodge so hot,
people are going to focus on the heat, and then
they're going to get scared, or they're going to get claustaphobic,
or prayer isn't in their mind. So you know, it's
(01:06:35):
a place of prayer. It represents the womb of Mother Earth.
So not only do we go into the sweat lodge
to take a journey to the four Directions, but by
the time we come out, it should be a rebirth
because we are returned to the womb of our mother.
Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
That's beautiful.
Speaker 3 (01:07:00):
So a lot of parents listen to the show. They've
got children, teenagers, they don't know what to do anymore,
and they're drinking, or they're stealing, or they're being abusive,
or you know, running away or different things.
Speaker 1 (01:07:15):
Or you know, obviously you know the drugs are so strong.
Now you know that better than anybody. What advice do
you have to the parents to talk to their children,
What counsel do you have to them?
Speaker 4 (01:07:26):
You know, I think it's so vital first of all,
that we look at our children. We are only caretakers
up there. They do not belong to us. They are
not our possession. But part of the colonial system is
(01:07:50):
to take possession of things my car, my house, my wife,
my woman, my child, and.
Speaker 5 (01:08:05):
Their creators.
Speaker 4 (01:08:07):
They belong to creator. Creator gave us children to take care.
Sometimes we do a good job. Sometimes we do an
awful job. You know, there is no parent university. But
getting back to your question, listening, listening to our child,
(01:08:28):
not cutting them off when they get angry at us,
but listen to why they're angry. You know, we don't
listen even as adults. We don't listen to each other,
let each other finish our conversation without throwing our opinion
in or cutting them off. And that's so vital because
(01:08:51):
part of the healing process is sometimes people just need
to be heard. Once you hear somebody and start listening,
you can prevent from the escalation of confrontation. Because whether
(01:09:14):
somebody is angry, anger is a feeling, it's an emotion,
and through anger, we oftentimes escalate where we're start battling
each other. If we just sit and listen and understand
that what that person is saying to us, whether we
(01:09:37):
like it or not, whether we want to hear it
or not. It's an expression they're expressing that anger is
coming out. Let it come out. Don't swallow it, because
if you swallow it, it's going to contaminate, it's going
to manifest, You're going to become sick. Allow each other.
(01:10:00):
And that's what we need to do our children. With
our children. You know, there was a time MTV was
popular and all our kids wanted to do was sit
and watch MTV, and so we fought it. We fought
at a long time. Why do you sit here? Why
do you sit here and just listen all day long?
All you do want to do is watch EMTV. Then
(01:10:23):
we got amongst ourselves and said, wait a minute, let's
stop fighting our kids. Let's encourage them. Why sit here
watch MTV? Why don't you go get on MTV? And
then pretty soon they got interest in music, they got
interested in that, and now our kids are all over.
(01:10:46):
We have great actors, great musicians because we stopped fighting
them and we encourage them, just like in our life,
we encourage to take the things that are bad in
our life and be able to turn that around, see
the other side of it, and utilize it.
Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
That's beautiful. Where can people find you.
Speaker 4 (01:11:13):
For I don't know.
Speaker 1 (01:11:15):
I love that about.
Speaker 4 (01:11:22):
I'm not up in technology yet, so I do have
a Facebook that I communicate through Messenger. So if somebody
befriends me on a Messenger, I try to keep my
Facebook for that so that we can follow up on
sessions private sessions. We communicate through Facebook. I have an Instagram,
(01:11:44):
I have a website. I don't know the address to
those things, but if they're interested, I can get you
the information and yeah, and then you could passing on
to the listeners.
Speaker 1 (01:11:59):
All right, we just got a couple minutes left. One
of the things I love about you is song.
Speaker 3 (01:12:05):
Can you take us out in song? Do you know
the one we do in the beginning of ceremony takasha?
You know Pilomia, thank you.
Speaker 4 (01:12:13):
No no for you listeners, this is a song that
can help you and carry you throughout the day. And
if you sing this song, you are giving thanks for
every moment of your day. And it's very simple. Pilamia
(01:12:39):
and we say pilamia lo which means thank you. This
is Locoto language, and tonkashila, which is Grandfather, the Great Mystery,
the great Spirit.
Speaker 5 (01:12:53):
So if you can follow the melody. You can pick
up the words.
Speaker 6 (01:13:02):
Be loamae, pe loamae, pe lomaello.
Speaker 1 (01:13:21):
Hey.
Speaker 4 (01:13:23):
Tom cushi lo.
Speaker 6 (01:13:28):
Be loamaa loo, p loamaelo hei pe lomaea, p lama
(01:13:50):
loo p loamallo, Why tom oh gosh pe loama pe loama.
Speaker 4 (01:14:16):
You know you sing these songs and you put feelings
behind these songs, they will have the results that you
are seeking your life. For you, listeners is very simple.
You just have to follow your heart.
Speaker 5 (01:14:38):
Listen to your heart, exercise your heart.
Speaker 4 (01:14:42):
And becoming a part of your mind so that they
could work together in balance. Your mind and your heart.
They are meant to be compatible, and compatibility only means
working together. Your mind. Your brain that is your strategist.
(01:15:07):
It tells you how to do things. Your heart, that's
the intuitive side of yourself, tells you what you need
to do. That's the balance. Thank you for your time.
Thank you for giving me this opportunity soon, Thank you
(01:15:28):
for bringing me here today, and I hope to hear
from you.
Speaker 5 (01:15:32):
I hope to follow up and be able to share
with you more.
Speaker 1 (01:15:37):
Thank you, brother, Thank you creator.
Speaker 3 (01:15:41):
The Sino Show is a production of iHeart Podcasts hosted
by me Cina McFarlane, produced by Pod People and twenty eighth.
Av Our Lead producer is Keith carlak Our, Executive producer
is Lindsey Hoffman. Marketing lead is Ashley Weaver. Thank you
so much for listening. We'll see you next week and
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