Peter is back from paternity leave and shares how Will Levis will always be a part of his daughter’s birth story. Then he empties the notebook on all the latest news surrounding Lamar, Rodgers, Bryce Young, and Kliff Kingsbury. S2 Cognition’s Brandon Ally joins to tell us about the new cognitive / processing tool that’s being used by teams in lieu of the Wonderlic test. Then Peter answers listener questions, including a riveting review for The Super Mario Bros. movie!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
The Season with Peter Schreeger as a production of the
NFL in partnership with iHeartRadio. What's Up, Everybody, Welcome back
to the season with Peter Schreger. The last time we
(00:28):
did this podcast was at the Super Bowl in Arizona,
and it has been multiple months and multiple things have happened,
obviously in the football world, but also on a personal note,
I am a father of a new baby girl. This
was the big reason why I have not been on
the podcast the last few weeks, and I was on
(00:49):
paternity leave and not on Good Morning Football. In the
story is of course intertwined with the football and draft
and everything. So I'm at the Combine and it is
the Friday night of the Combine and the we're previewing
the next day. All right, We're previewing the next day,
and it comes to me and I'm talking about Will Levis,
(01:13):
the Kentucky quarterback. And I'm going into a real deep
dive on Will Levis about how in twenty twenty one
he had an offensive coordinator at Kentucky named Liam Cohen,
and Liam Cohen was then poached by the Los Angeles
Rams to be their offensive coordinator in twenty twenty two,
based on the job he did at Kentucky in his
familiarity with McVeagh from a previous part of his career.
(01:33):
With the Rams going deep on Liam Cohen talk about
Will live at Levis and my wife, who knows I'm
on TV, who knows I am fully engaged, and it's
hard enough to spit out stats and knowledge on Will
Levis on a Friday night in February is texting me
call me back a sap. Call me back, a sap,
(01:54):
Call me back a sap. All right, I'm about to
as were as I'm about to get to my phone,
Daniel Jeremiah starts listing off teams that might make sense
for a quarterback to be elected, and in my ear
Mark Teitelman, who's the producer of the combine, says, shregs,
we're gonna come to you. Just give us another team.
And I'm like frozen, paralyzed. I don't know what my
(02:16):
wife is calling about. I have no idea. Obviously, I
know what baby's on the way at some point, but
this is not when we were expecting it. It's early,
and I just get on camera and I just say, yeah, look,
I don't know what the deal is with Lamar Jackson
and the Ravens. I would think that the Ravens have
to put contingency plans on. And it's late February, but
I would think that the Ravens are going to do
(02:37):
all their due diligence on quarterbacks. Okay, go to commercial.
Call my wife. She's like, you gotta get home. This
thing is happening. All right, we're a couple weeks before
we thought we would be. I'm all and I'm looking
at my Twitter and it's blowing up and I've got
a million mentions. I'm like, what just happened? What did
I do? And they clipped off the clip of me
(02:58):
saying that the Ravens are going to be looking at
quarterbacks or should be looking at quarterbacks, and that went
like wildfire. And I swear it was before Lamar did
a trade request. It was before Lamar in the franchise tag,
it was before all the Lamar stuff. It was when
everyone thought Lamar was gonna be just fine and dandy,
and I just merely mentioned they might take a quarterback.
(03:20):
But it went like wildfire on Twitter, and I'm like,
I can't pay attention to that. Get home, and it
was a false alarm in that moment, but three days later,
our daughter was born. Her name is Betty Hazel. She
was born on March ninth, twenty twenty three. We are
so happy my son, Mel and Betty are all good.
(03:42):
The NFL network was cool enough to give me a
few weeks of paternity leave, which was important because my
son was also off on spring break for two weeks
and someone needs to entertain a six and a half
year old while my wife, Erica is with our baby daughter.
But I am back on air on Good Morning Football,
and I'm happy to announce we are bringing back this
(04:03):
season with Peter Schrager. It did not die at the
Super Bowl is going to be alive and we're going
to start going into high gear. I missed the entire
free agency window, and I apologize to the listeners for that.
Obviously I had other things going on. But we are
now a couple of weeks from draft, and I assure
you this is my sweet time and my time where
(04:25):
I like to hit home runs and keep you guys engaged.
I'll have more information than most I will share it
here on the podcast. I'll try to give you different
information than what you're getting on Good Morning Football, fresher, different,
more guests, all of that stuff. But I also feel
like I have a lot to catch up on with
the guys here in the room. We've got Aaron wang Kaufman,
(04:46):
my lovely producer and friend. We've got Jason English from iHeart,
who's in the building as well. Aaron, how are you?
Did you miss me? And what did I miss? Oh?
I'm great, of course I missed you. Yeah, And I
feel particularly bad that, unfortunately I didn't get to make
it the super Bowl this year to record with you,
because you know, day before I left tested positive for COVID,
(05:07):
so then I was not able to make it out
there and do the and do the recording. So I
haven't seen you in even longer than that. I know,
I know when I got that, Cause like that's so
finning that It's just we're gonna have this great way
to these plans of doing these you know, the great
Arizona hang Session and this whole thing. We're gonna bring
Brooklyn to Arizona, and then naturally COVID hits as it
(05:28):
always does. Um and you were not there, but Jason was.
We had a great two podcasts there, but the NFL
world keeps on spinning. Um, let's do what we do.
Let's go through five topics. You serve me up. You
tell me what you want to hear on and I'll
give you and I'll empty the bag on what I got.
And guys, if you're listening, it's good to be back
(05:48):
on the mics. I'm excited about this. Aaron. Let's go
all right. Well, first up, I mean, I know you
said you missed part of free agency, but there's still
some big things happening, namely Aaron Rodgers the Jets. What's happening?
Where do we stand with this? Where do we start? Okay,
so it's April eleventh as we record this, I'm gonna
go all the way back to that week of March sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth,
(06:14):
because that's when the Jets brass got the okay to
travel out to Malibu. Now, let me take you through this.
This hasn't been detailed as as much in depth as
maybe it should have been. Here's how it works. They
get the approval to be able to speak to Rogers.
Rogers gets out of his three four day, five day
darkness retreat, and you can roll your eyes if you
(06:35):
want it is what it is. That's what he did.
He says he wants to meet with the Jets. The
crew that traveled out to Malibu are the following head
coach Robert Sala, general manager Joe Douglas, team president himI
el High, Jets offensive coordinator Nathaniel Hackett, one team owner
(06:57):
Woody Johnson, another team owner Christopher Johnson. And you had
three different factions coming from three different places. So you
had Woody Johnson coming from Florida, you had Christopher Johnson
coming from Colorado, and you had all the other guys
coming from Jersey. They all fly in and yes, there
were cars parked outside of Rogers's house, and that made
(07:19):
a lot of news that the Jets would park in
front of his house. Who cares. Now it's thirty one
days later and he's still not a Jet, so none
of that matters. But yes, paparazzi picked up photos of
Woody exiting Rogers's house and Sala exiting rogers house. And
I'm told it was a four hour hang session for
most of them where Rogers hosted them. They all talked,
(07:40):
they all walked around his house, They talked about philosophy,
they talked about life. They talked about the team. Did
Rogers demand they picked players, No, but they were asking
him about certain players and his thoughts and he was
offering his feedback. Now as they exit, there's this feeling
of great optimism from everybody involved that this thing is
going to get done. The Jets brass flies back to
(08:03):
New Jersey. They're sitting in there waiting, and then Roger
decides in a couple of days he's going to go
on the Pat McAfee show. The McAfee interview I thought
was compelling. I also think Rogers and the Jets were
done no favors by some of the things that were said.
And I'm not blaming Rogers here. He was speaking to
his truth. He was talking what he wanted to say.
(08:25):
But I can tell you from sources around the league
that when Rogers was going through all his gratitude mentions
of mentioning you know, here we go. Bob Harlan was
the president of the Packers when I was drafted, and
Bob was a great guy. And this and that Mark Murphy,
the president of the Packers since two thousand and seven,
does not get a special shout out. He goes through
(08:45):
Ted Thompson, the late great Ted Thompson, who was the
evaluator of talent, who really put his name on Rogers instead,
it's time to move on far If he talks about
Ted Thompson quite a bit. No mention of Brian guten Kunz,
who's the current general manager. Now you could say, who
cares if he's not mentioned. When you're talking about the
equipment guys and members of the cafeteria, and you're talking
(09:06):
about all the coaches and all, and you start not
mentioning it. There's no reason that the Packers guys that
were gonna suddenly give Aaron Rodgers away for sixty cents
on the dollars. So they're staying firm on what they
think they need, which, to be honest, Aaron, as I'm
doing this conversation with you, I don't know the specifics
on that. I was told from people not in either
(09:30):
building that the Jets we're looking to make a trade
where it would not involve the first round pick, it
would not involve both of the second round picks, and
it would involve a future first that was conditional, meaning
we gotta get something out of Rogers. We can't just
(09:51):
get one gear or a commitment to one season, there's
got to be some sort of multiple season commitment in
which a first round pick is then triggered. If that
two years or one and a half years, or whatever
the starts that are required, it is not hit, then
it remains a second or third round pick, whatever it is. Packers, meanwhile,
are just like, well, we've got Rogers under contract already.
(10:14):
We agreed to one of the biggest contracts in NFL
history with him less than thirteen months ago, and we've
got Jordan Love playing on a rookie contract. Still, we're
gonna stay and stand tight here. It's now April eleventh.
Joe Douglass was on a local thing with Boomer and
Geo in Jersey City on Friday, in which he said,
like he'll be here, like Rodgers will be here. I
(10:36):
think everyone on both sides as the assumption that Aaron
Rodgers will not be a Packer and Aaron Rodgers will
be a New York Jets quarterback. But at some point
that trade needs to be executed, and then there's different
contract things that trigger. As we sit here on April eleventh,
I don't think we're any closer to either team giving
an inch on this now. If the Packers want a
(10:58):
first round pick, the Jets are steadfast and saying we're
not giving up a first round pick. If the Packers
want two second round picks, the Jets seem to be
steadfast and saying we're not giving up two second round picks. Aaron,
as I lay that all out to you, and this
conversation has been going on for days in the New
York media and also Green Bay media and also on Twitter.
Who holds the leverage in that situation. The guys who
(11:18):
have Rogers, who obviously wants to move on and said
he walked into that darkness retreat ninety percent sure he
was going to retire, or the Jets, who in this
case know that Rogers doesn't want to be there in
the Packers don't want Rogers there. Who has the leverage?
And if you're to pick, which side is going to
(11:39):
be the one that's gonna bend in the end, I
think whoever you ask is the one that has the leverage.
When he asked someone from the Jets, they have the leverage.
If he asked someone from the Packers, they have the leverage.
Because I mean, neither one, like you said, neither one
is thinking there's a different outcome. It's just a matter
of like, how do they get to this compromise of
what the picks are? And I think both of them
(12:01):
think the other one will bend first. I thought the
New York media would play a far bigger role in this.
They haven't. I thought every day on the back page,
it would be Joe Douglas with a clock and it's
say times tick and get this done, Get this done,
Get this done. But I feel like rational minds have
existed in the New York media on this thing, or
they've just been distracted with Mets, Yankees, Giants, nixt sets
(12:23):
like you know, Rangers, Islanders that Joe Douglas hasn't been
put through the crucible on this because I think at
a certain point, if the New York media was banging,
bang and bang and banging every single day, why is
this trade not done? Why is this trade not done?
Why is this trade not done? Why is this trade
not done? Joe go Douglas would say, Okay, look, it
certainly doesn't make the most football sense to give up
the thirteenth overall pick for a forty year old quarterback
and all the stuff, But let's just get it done.
(12:44):
Let's get Aaron Rodgers in the building. Let's start this thing.
He hasn't done that yet. I think the New York
media has been pretty kind to the Jets and the
Jets brass, because if I'm looking at it now from
thirty thousand feet, how do you get on that plane
to Malibu? How do you accord him? How do you
let all of your intentions be known? And how do
you not have that deal in place beforehand? To me,
that's the crazy part to it, that the intentions were
(13:06):
all made. You give up all your cards in this thing.
You show your cards that you're all in on Rodgers.
You're not gonna sign car, You're not gonna trade for
a little more, You're not gonna do any of that stuff.
And yet April eleventh, Rodgers is still not a New
York Jet, and I don't feel like it's gonna get
done until oh, I don't know, either draft day or
maybe even after the draft. I think both sides know
the ultimate conclusion is is that Rogers is going to
(13:30):
be a Jet. But like the second that draft starts,
it's on the clock really for that trade, and the
second it ends, like I don't know, the Jets lose,
or the Packers like just missed an entire year of
a draft where they could have picked up players that
could help. So I think the timing of the draft
being in two weeks is like puts pressure on the
(13:50):
Packers to make that trade so they get something in
return now, but without an owner, without anyone banging the
drum there to be like get it done. I don't
see the Packers having any urgency either, all right, from
one quarterback to another, we have I think the last
time that we were on, we were talking about Obj
deals and he finally signs with the Ravens for like
(14:11):
a little more than fifteen million, and immediately Lamar releases
the FaceTime photo of he and ob j facetiming, and
then this weekend they're hanging out in Miami together. What
do you what? What does this mean for the Lamar
Ravens deal? What's this mean? Just in general with Baltimore.
I wish I could give you an answer on Lamar Jackson,
(14:33):
and I even sit on the show on Monday that like,
I don't think Odell signs with the Ravens without knowing
or having some sort of assurance that Lamar Jackson is
throwing him passes. But if anybody in the media is
trying to pose as like a voice of Lamar or
give you some insight on Lamar, they're full of shit.
The raven side, they don't give much secrets out either.
(14:56):
I think from their angle on this thing, they've offered
Lamar Jackson multiple contracts that they think is is fair.
He has rebuffed them over the course of two years
with those multiple offers, and he's betting on himself a
little bit and saying, I think that there's more money
out there for me. And from what everyone says that
the Shawn Watson contract last year that was two hundred
(15:18):
forty million dollars guaranteed really was the trigger and all
of this, and that Lamar is look at that in
the number, Well he's not getting that number. It's not
going to get that number from the Ravens at least.
So again with the Rogers, the thing time about who
has to compromise, who has to bend. From a strictly
on paper way of analyzing this, you say, all right,
(15:40):
the Ravens have offered you multiple deals. The Ravens have
offered to make you one of the highest paid quarterbacks
in the league. The Ravens want to tell you that
they're your guy. The Ravens have publicly said they're two
hundred percent behind you. The Ravens blood the audit. The
Ravens have then changed the offensive coordinator, which seemed to
be a problem with the offense. Who knows, I seem
like Lamar had a lot of success in that offense.
(16:00):
But let's say that they'd moved on just for the
fact that Romans been there for six years. Time to
move on. Todd Monkin comes in. Then the Ravens go
out and get Odell Beckham, which, again on paper, you
say that guy's gonna be thirty one years old, is
coming off two acls, he didn't play last year. Regardless,
he's already their number one wide receiver. He's being paid
like a number one wide receiver. So they got him
(16:21):
the number one wide receiver on the market that was
available at the time. You add in Mark Andrews, you
add in Dobbins, you add in what seems to be
a pretty good offensive line. You're saying, we're doing everything
we can on our end, and we're still offering you
this very very handsome salary and this very very attractive
(16:42):
deal if you're willing to sign it. But Lamar hasn't
budged and FaceTime photos or not. It's now been more
than twenty four hours since they went and they made
a trade for Odell or they went and they signed
Odell Beckham, and they signed odeb Beckham for more money
than any other team I know is offering them. And
I think that might be from one to two to
(17:03):
three to four more a million dollars than anyone else
was offering Odell Beckham. So all that stuff happened. They
know they partied in Miami, is what the headline is.
They were at a club together, they were talking. I
also saw photos of Odell Beckham sitting and talking with
Joe Burrow and Donald Trump. So I don't know how
much they were hanging on Saturday in Miami. I don't
know what that meant, if they saw each other, if
(17:25):
they said what's up? I know they were seeing next
to each other. Lamar had that face like I can't
get out of this club quick enough. Nothing against Odell.
I think Lamar just wasn't looking to be hanging there
all night in the photo that I saw. I don't
know anyone who tells you that that this is a
slam dunk. Now Lamar is gonna accept less money after
he's hold out for more money all this time. I
don't know again, draft, if Lamar still has not signed
(17:50):
with the Ravens, and Lamar still has not agreed to
the franchise tag, and the draft starts, and the Ravens
at the twenty second pick, and let's just say Anthony
Richardson or Will Levis starts slipping seven, eight, nine, ten,
suddenly got like the eleventh, the twelfth, thirteenth pick, and
those teams don't need quarterbacks. Does Baltimore say screw it
(18:11):
and get themselves some assurance. Do they go and they
trade up and get a Will Levis? Did they go
up and trade up and get an Anthony Richardson. Did
they sit at twenty two and take Kendon Hooker just
to light a fire under Lamar. Anything's possible at this point.
I think the Ravens have tried to come to terms
with a contract for Lamar for over two years. What
I read is that when Josh Allen signed his contract
(18:32):
in the summer of I guess it was summer twenty twenty.
Was COVID now twenty twenty one. He signed his deal
in twenty twenty one. He signed this big contract, same
drive class as Lamar, everything I'll think being equal. He's
already made sixty six million dollars in cash. Lamar was
offered a similar deal at that time or at the
(18:52):
very least shortly thereafter, and has rebuffed it every time
along the way and has made you know, far less again.
He might win this thing. He might make all the money.
He might make a stand for quarterbacks, so that guaranteed
quarterback money is a thing that we put in the NFL.
Owners have to grind their teeth, and Lamar is going
to be a groundbreaker in a lot of ways. In
the short term. The Ravens, I think they've got to
(19:13):
look at the calendar and say, Okay, is it time
for us to maybe create a contingency plan here where
we select a quarterback in the NFL draft. Okay, another
team who is looking at quarterbacks in the NFL draft.
The Panthers traded up for the first overall pick. And
you know, the conversation now is Bryce Young, C J. Strout,
(19:33):
maybe Anthony Richardson, what do you think is going to
happen there? I'm following it really closely, and I know
that they're meeting with everyone. Things you need to know
about this Panthers team and what they did this offseason.
They spent so much money on their offensive coaching staff,
so much money. It wasn't enough that they hired Frank Reich.
(19:54):
They also went out and they brought Jim Caldwell, And
they also went out and brought Josh mccownen they brought out.
They went out and they got duced Staley. They are
spending a ton of money on their coaches. David Tepper
has opened up his wallet and he has gone above
and beyond to say, we are going to create the
most nurturing environment for whatever this young quarterback is and
(20:14):
whoever this young quarterback is. And on defense, they paid
head coach money for defensive coordinator. Ever, Oh, they are
spending real money to put the culture right in the
average between McCown and Reich, I think I did the numbers.
I think McCown played fifteen years in the league and
Reich played like eighteen years in the league. That's thirty
(20:36):
three years of quarterback experience. And I'm not a math major.
It might have been more or less whatever it is,
but that's thirty three years of quarterback experience. Then you
add in Jim Caldwell, who has coach Peyton Manning in
Indianapolis as coach Matthew Stafford and Detroit and has had
playoff seasons with both those teams. You put all that
together and then you say, Okay, give us a young
(20:57):
quarterback that you can PLoP in there and they're going
to learn. They have no other choice and they're going
to learn and they are going to succeed with that coaching.
I think Bryce Young is the pick that's on April eleventh.
The draft is in sixteen days. Things can change. I've
had countless times where I've been told from people around
the league that this is what I think is the pick,
(21:17):
and go with it, and then in the week that happens,
things change. This is my take as of now. I
think Bryce Young is the superior quarterback in every single
category to CJ. Stroud except for height, weight, size. And
you could say, well that's a lot. Well, the NFL
is changing, and with that quarterback coaching and with the
(21:40):
way an offense can be built and the way that
the mobile quarterback and the way that he works in
that pocket. I feel like it's something that they can
overlook right now. Now you could say, and you'd be
absolutely right. There's never been a quarterback of that size
in that build to have great success in this league.
Drew Brees. It was shorter, but Drew Brees was big.
He was like a stocky guy. Kyler Murray, whether you
(22:01):
think he's a success or not. Kyler Murray was under
six feet, but Kyler Murray is built like, you know,
a pretty big. This dude is slight. And the comparison
that everyone makes, everyone makes to Bryce Young is Steph Curry,
not not Hey, but Colt McCoy was this size or
(22:21):
Chase Daniel was this size. No, they go NBA Steph
Curry because of his point guard qualities at quarterback. Word
is that Nick Saban has been singing about this guy.
And you can say, well, Nick Saban sings about all
these guys. He does, he does, but I don't think
he's been singing about Jalen Hurts to or Back Jones
(22:41):
like he sings about this guy. Bryce Young, first Alabama
quarterback to win the Heisman obviously has had a ton
of success under Nick Saban in that offense. But he
has been that dude since he was a high school
player in Pasadena, California and came out here. He is
(23:01):
incredible in meetings. His voice is a little softer than
you might imagine, like this, like the Will Levis type
or one of these guys. He's a soft spoken young man,
but has like the leadership of a general. It's what
everyone says. He can lead the room. He's a savant
of the game and in the pocket he is so elusive.
If you watch some of these clips, he can move
(23:23):
like no one else can right now in the NFL.
In the pocket, he's got crazy footwork. The con of course,
is that that was against the SEC defenders. That's great,
that's fine. The NFL has guys who are six foot
seven six ft. The Atlanta Falcons have Calais Campbell, who's
gonna be breathing down his neck. The Atlanta Falcons have
(23:44):
a ton of other players that are gonna be coming
for him. David an Yumada is a huge guy. You
go to the Saints, Cam Jordan's a different type of
beast than what he saw in the SEC the past
few years. I think the number one pick is going
to be Bryce Young. I say that on April eleventh,
and I think that's the right pick if Carolina is
comfortable with his size everything else. Nothing against c J. Stroud,
(24:05):
Levis or Richardson. I just believe that Bryce Young has
all those qualities to be a face of the franchise
and be the quarterback for the Carolina Panthers in the future.
Number four, what's up with Cliff Yeah Kingsbury news late
last night is that he's going to be working with
the USC Trojans Now. The last time we spoke, As
(24:28):
you guys know, I'm very close with Cliff Kingsbury. He
it was in Thailand the last time we did this,
and that was around Super Bowl and he left. I
actually hung out with him the Friday of Super Bowl
at his place in Arizona, so he was back. We
had a long talk and the debate was do I
want to come back to football take a year off,
or do I want to do TV? Do I knew
anything like that? Cliff really never was considering the TV stuff.
(24:49):
He wanted to lay low. However, multiple teams expressed interest
and bringing him in either for an interview or just
giving him the job straight up. In the NFL, as
the offensive coordinator. He did go and meet with the
Houston Texans. He did have a really good interaction with
to Miko Ryan's but it wasn't the right fit. He
wasn't ready to take that job and take on the
responsibility of being an offensive coardiner in the NFL in
(25:10):
Houston at this time because I need a little breath,
and if they can't give me a couple, you know,
weeks whatever, as I consider and think this out, then
it's probably not best for us. So Houston moves on.
They hire Bobby Slowik, who was with Demiko and San Francisco.
Everyone's happy. They'll have a quarterback at number two and
they'll be fine. In the last couple of weeks, Cliff
was thinking about things. He has been traveling a lot.
(25:32):
He's been all over different countries. He's been all over
the America. He was in Miami for a bit. I
know that I had a friend who was like, I
think I saw Cliff Kingsbury at the Ultra Festival in
Miami at a rave. I'm like, it's possible. Sure enough,
Cliff was in Miami that weekend. Yes, he was. Cliff
Kingsbury and Lincoln Riley go back a long way. Of course,
they have history together and they've had several quarterbacks that
(25:55):
have overlapped over the years. And position was presented where
you could live in Los Angeles. You're not going to
be a title of coordinator. You're not gonna have to
route as much as if you were the head coach
of a college program. I don't even know how much
recruiting Cliffs is gonna do. I remember when he was
last year and I were talking. We were talking about
(26:15):
Texas Tech and all the stuff, and He's like, I
just can't imagine doing the recruiting stuff again, especially now
with Nil and all that. Stuff like that did not
appeal to him. Cliff Kingsbury, he's a coach. That's what
he wants to He wanst a coach. And so when
you give him this Caleb Wilson, who is the Heisman
Trophy winner and it is going to be the first
or second overall pick next year, you give him Lincoln Riley,
who's a dear friend. You give him Los Angeles, which
(26:37):
is a place where he was already heart. His heart
was already set on living when he accepted the USC
offensive coordinator job a few years ago before bolting for
the Cardinals, and then you say, Okay, you could still
keep your place in Arizona. You could keep you could
have a new place in usc you could live in
both places. You can you know, be part of this
great run we're doing, but we're not going to commit
you to this all in head coach recruiting type deal.
(26:59):
I think it's the perfect situation. Look, there's a lot
of people who are so critical a Cliff. I don't
understand that. Everyone's you know, I was on a text
chain and an agent was texting me and he was like,
all this guy does is fail upwards. I'm like, he's
taking a consultant role on a college football team, Like
why is that? It's not like he was just given
one hundred million dollars to go coach the Patriot's like
(27:21):
he was, He's going. He likes coaching, he wants to
coach this kid. He wants to have some sort of
work life balance, and I think he's gonna get it.
So I'm happy for Cliff. We'll see if he if
he if he hits the ground running and he's all
in on this thing, or if it's one of those
deals where he's coaching but he's also keeping his eye
in the NFL and we'll see what happens after that.
All right, we're leading up to the draft. We just
(27:41):
got a couple of weeks. Do you have a favorite
draft prospect that you've been watching or that you're excited
to see where they go, you know at the end
of the month. But we just did a four hour
tongue wagging session on Bryce Young. I think he could
do is as commercial. I don't know who Bryce Young's
agent is, and I will say this, this is gonna
be a different I don't know who any of these
guys agents are. I take pride in that I don't.
(28:02):
I get this all the time when I'm like talking
about prospects and then they'll say, like, it's because he's
friends with the agent. I'm like, most most of these
guys agents, I don't even know who they are. And
they've got NFL prospects that are making one hundred million
dollars and they've got NFL players that are on their
second contracts. These agents, aren't they know that, you know,
they could give me a heads up on this guy
(28:23):
that's that's impressing team, or this guy met with this team.
But anything an agent tells me is not going to
help where this player gets drafted. Truly. Like I could
talk about Bryce Young all day long. If if the
Panthers want to take CJ. Stroud, because Peter Schreker was
talking about Bryce Young on Good Morning Football, it's not
going to get him drafted before CJ. Stroud. That said,
(28:45):
I've got a guy I like. He's a wide receiver
at a All Miss, and I'm surprised he's not getting
all the love that everyone else got. He was at
the Senior Bowl, he was at the Combine, and he's
built like all these old Miss guys. And he's six
foot two, he's two hundred and twenty pounds, he runs
a four or four or forty. I'm talking about my guy,
Jonathan Mingo. Remember that name, Jonathan Mingo. He might go
(29:05):
second or third round. I don't know, but I could
see Jonathan Mingo being that dude who we're at the
twenty eight twenty nine thirty part of the draft and
a team's like, you know what, We're taking Jonathan Mingo?
All right? So Mingo did not have huge numbers. He
had a foot injury a couple of years ago, but
he is six to two twenty and comes from the
same factory of wide receivers at AJ Brown, DK Metcalf,
(29:26):
Elijah Moore have all come from in recent years, and
everyone said he's an awesome interview. He runs the routes,
he's raw physically because he's such a big guy that
you know you could do anything with him. I just
saw this happen with A. J. Brown, I saw it
happen with DK Metcalf, and I saw it happen with
Elijah Moore. I don't know why everyone's against the giant
wide receiver out of all miss I am into that.
(29:47):
I think those guys are three for three for having
some success in the league. And if anything, I'll trust
the history from that school and a guy who I'm
told as interviewing really well and went to the Senior
Bowl and played as a you know, as a senior
at college like in the SEC. So that's my name.
Everyone's gonna give you all these different prospects, and that's great.
I usually have an eye for these things and usually
hear it from the right people. I'm gonna say, Jonathan
(30:09):
Mingo Aaron and I do not know who his agent is. Awesome. Well, um,
I am excited to see especially because his size profile
is so different than all these other receivers that we
have in this draft. I mean kind of like Bryce
Young on the quarterbacks. But yeah, Mingo got some some
buzz around the Senior Bowl, so we should That'll be
fun to see where he goes. Was there five points?
(30:31):
We go through it? Aaron's feel good to be back.
It feels great. One thing we didn't hit, and I
want to spring it on you because I assume you're
all caught up. We're Succession, Season four, episode three. Oh
my god, if you tell me you haven't watched it yet, Like,
what are we doing? As mister? Should we move to
the ad break now? I just haven't watched you haven't
(30:51):
watched it. Now, I haven't watched this episode. I haven't
watched any of it. I haven't watched any of success
You've never seen an episode of Succession, never seen it?
What are you doing? What do you want to know?
I know I think at this point I am chasing you. Yeah,
I think it's I'm just gonna wait till the end
and then watch all of it at once. I don't
I don't know. I know it's amazing. Everyone tells me
(31:14):
it's amazing. Like, I'll admit to you, I never saw
a Game of Thrones. I never saw an episode of it. Um,
I don't as a New Yorker, as someone who loves media,
as someone Aaron, this is a I'm gonna say this,
This is an atrocity. Yeah, I know, I was. I
(31:36):
was hoping you We're gonna bring it up. We are,
We're gonna go We're gonna go to a commercial break.
I don't even know if we have commercials. We're gonna
go to a commercial break right now. We're gonna hash
this out. We'll be back in a second. One thing
we pride ourselves on and this podcast is being ahead
of the curve, but also being a smart podcast. We're
(31:58):
not just gonna be throwing stuff at the wall. We
want to make you smarter when you're listening to it,
and we want to make you aware of trends that
are coming and things that are happening in the league.
And you know, I've been doing a lot of work
on the draft the last few months and obviously in
the last few weeks as I build my first mock
draft is going to come out next week. Been talking
to teams directly and when you talk to teams. They
(32:19):
use a lot of those terms. They use the hip swivel,
they use the catchability radius. They talk about, you know,
this guy's really good above the neck, which means he's smart.
And that's a word that you would never use in
real conversation. You would ever say the words this person's
really impressive above the neck. That's what they say in conversations.
And one thing that continues to be mentioned that I
(32:40):
had not heard of, and I'm almost ashamed I haven't.
It's something called the S two score. The S two score,
So okay, I'm nodding along, And a lot of these
conversations and multiple teams are mentioning the S two, the
S two. And I grew up in a wonderlick world,
so I've always known the wonderlock one to forty and
if this train starts at you know, stop, a train
b ends, it stops c and who is the fast train?
(33:02):
All that stuff. I grew up in a wonderlick draft world.
Sounds like there's a new show in town. It's the
S two, and it is a processing test. And to
get it explained better than me going on the company
website and trying to read I thought I would bring
someone from the company itself. This is our guest today.
This is Brandon Ally, and Brandon Ally is from the
(33:25):
S two test. I don't know what are you coming
with the companies called or whatever it's but Brandon, when
I reached out on the company website and said contact us,
your email came up, we interacted, you showed you sent
me white papers, and I am fascinated by any new
measure of intelligence and processing that this league is using.
And I know the NFL network and ESPN are not
talking about the S two scores yet, but they might
(33:46):
be soon. Brandon Ally, Welcome to the season with Peter Schreeker.
Thank you, appreciate it. Glad to be here. Brandon explained,
what is the S two test, dude, And start off
with what the test is, and then I'll pepper you
with questions because I love the stuff. Yeah. Man, so
I think it's really clear because you you illustrated a
(34:07):
great a great point with the wonderlick. Right, These IQ tests,
these intelligence tests, Uh, you know, there's there's no football
player on the planet that is when the ball is
snapped going to have to decide how fast trains are moving. Um,
and so we actually we stay away from the whole
IQ piece, the whole intelligence, the whole book smarts things
(34:27):
that is absolutely not what we measure. When we're gonna
go ahead and assume that these scouts in front offices
have done their homework on how well a guy is
going to learn their playbook, how well they can understand
complexity and things like that, what we measure are those speeded,
rapid cognitive processing that occurs once the ball is snapped.
So as an example, uh, you know you can you
(34:48):
can hear all of the arm armchair quarterbacks in the
world tell you, well, if the dB covers the curl,
you throw to the flat. If he covers the flat,
you throw it to the curl. It's way more complex
than that. And they can tell you the rules. There's
a host of quarterbacks that can tell you the rules.
But when the ball is snapped and they have to
filter through all of those rules, they become slow, they hesitate,
(35:09):
they may throw to the wrong route. So we're interested
in those cognitive processes. Is very rapid processing of visual information,
speeded decision making and execution of athletes when they're in
the game. So that's a big differentiator from previous things
or what's out there currently, whether they're really just tapping
(35:29):
into a player's IQ or their book smarts or their
ability to understand concepts within football. All right, so you
see with the wonderlock, and I hate to keep mentioning
a competitor, and you're probably like, ah, we don't really
acknowledge it. We just call it IQ test. Fine, IQ test.
Here are twelve questions in four minutes. Can you finish it?
And can you get them as many right as possible?
(35:49):
What is the S two tests? How do you measure
processing in a test like form? So it's important to
note that you know, Scott and I my co founder,
Scott Wiley, we didn't invent these tasks. These tasks have
been in laboratories around the world for decades to understand
how the brain works in speeded environments. So every you know,
(36:12):
we present stimuli and you have to respond most of
the time on our test in under half of a
second or within a second. Right, And they're facing these
tasks that have been used in the laboratory for decades,
and we try to understand the system itself. So I'm
going to use an example of impulse control, right, impulse
control task for us is one of the best predictors
(36:33):
of chase rates in Major League Baseball. It's one of
the best predictor of interception rate for quarterback hold penalties
for offensive linemen. We test the system. So think about
when you're sitting at a red light right in the
turn lane next to you turns green, and you hit
the gas and you go and you you hit the
break right. That's your impulse control system engaging. Some of
(36:54):
us are quicker and don't fall prey to that kind
of stuff, and others of us, man, we're hitting it
as soon as it turns green. We can test that
overall system and then make That's where Scott and I
have sort of built the business around, is interpreting that
in how it's going to manifest on the field. So
impulse control is really important for chasing sliders out of
(37:14):
the zone, you've got to inhibit that, or for partial
read throwing it into traffic because it looked good right
off the snap right, you've got to inhibit those responses.
So we test that system using sort of classic laboratory tests.
Give me an example of a classic laboratory test without
having it, you know, visually in front of us right now.
But if I'm Peter Schreeger PROSPECTS seven thirty five at
(37:37):
the combine, I'm sitting down for an S two tests.
What is the actual test? Yep? So our test is
about forty five minutes in which you sit in front
of a specialized gaming system that was built for millisecond precision.
One of the tests that I think a lot of
companies may use is object tracking, So how many objects
You've got to broaden your attention and keep track of
(37:58):
many moving objects? Right? An example of a laboratory based
test is you may you may have to track three
or four objects for ten or fifteen seconds. And here's
where Scott and I got a little bit more sophisticated,
is that's not how football operates, right. You've got to
have a play is three to five seconds. And so
we duplicated with how many objects are on the screen.
Is what a quarterback or a safety is going to
(38:19):
have to look at. And we actually measured how quickly
dbs and receivers move across the field. And so that's
how quickly our balls move across the screen. It's only
for three or five seconds like an NFL play, So
we really tried to narrow down the laboratory tests, which
may have ten or fifteen balls moving across the screen
and you've got to keep track of three of them.
(38:39):
We push the limits there. We make these defensive backs
and these middle linebackers have to track nine objects, right,
because that might be their life within three seconds at
the speed in which the game moves. So it's really
it's sports specific in that respect, but it is a
classic sort of computer based laboratory test. I'm interested in
the business of this stuff too, So the Wonderlock for
(39:00):
years is the gold standard. You guys come up with
this idea which is using classic tests but also using
modern technology. How do you get teams to buy in
to use it, how do you get prospects to agree
to do it? How do you get that story? What's
your origin story? If I'm on Shark Tank and you're
trying to pitch it to me, what's the story behind
the story? Yeah, so I'll give you a little bit
of origin story, and then I'll give you the way
(39:20):
that we operate. Because I think there's a lot of
misconceptions out there about who has access to the data
and all of those kind of things. So Scott and
I were both college athletes. I was a student athlete
at the University of Tennessee in the early nineties when
coach Tommy Moffatt was there, and he's the strength of
conditioning coach. It was just recently the strength and conditioning
coach at LSU. And I've had a twenty five year
(39:42):
relationship with Tommy, and so in twenty thirteen, I picked
up the phone and said, Hey, here's what Scott and
I are doing. And he was like, a guy, you
got to get down here and give this to the coaches.
So really we built the product at LSU. We bade
attested time and time again and again. Scott and I
we weren't like, hey, we know football. You know, Scott
played college football and college baseball. But it was one
(40:02):
of those things where we went to the experts and
you know, we asked Corey Raymond, Hey, what do defensive
backs have to do? What do you have? What do
your safeties have to do? And we worked through this
process for a few years at LSU, and then what
happened was the Saints, who were right down the road
from LSU. I think Jeff Ireland was at LSU for
a day or something scouting players and Jack Marucci, who's
(40:23):
one of our biggest allies, we don't don't we don't
put anything out in the market without working with Jack
for a year on it. Jack mentioned this to Jeff,
and Jeff picked this up, and so we went through
a three year period where we worked with exclusively with
the Saints and Cowboys, just figuring out does the product
measure what we say it measures, does it predict on
field performance, those kinds of things. And once that was
(40:47):
sort of rolling after about three years, we decided we
were going to go to one team in every division
because we didn't want everybody to have access this. We
wanted some level of exclusivity to get in there. So
we went to one team in every division and it
kind of worked through through guys they trusted and through
guys they knew. So Jeff Ireland had worked with Brandon,
so he picked up the phone and called Brandon Bean.
(41:09):
Chris Ballard was in the initial Ryan Poles when he
was at the Chiefs were one of the initial groups.
So we then had a small, tight knit group that
we really worked with. Their analytics groups, We really validated,
we did test retest, we did players on and off
ADHD Meds. I mean, we really dug into this, and
then a year and a half ago we decided we
(41:32):
wanted to open up a little bit more. And right
now it's just open to two teams in every division,
so only half of the league gets these scores, and
so we are not. And the way it operates, the
contracts operate, is those teams own the data, So we're
not allowed to discuss the data. We're not allowed to
give the data anybody else. Any scores that you see
in the media or leaked or whatever that's not us,
(41:55):
that's coming from either agents or front offices, or or
just supposition, because we've seen some outright way off the
mark claims. But ultimately only only right now, only fifteen
teams get the data and use it in their process. Well,
you can tie it to my sources if you guys
follow us. Who's got the data? Who doesn't? When I
(42:15):
told you that, I keep on hearing about the s
two scores. How does the prospect in the combine then
take this test and then how do they use that
as something that they can use as a pro as
opposed to a con Yeah, great, great question. So in
about twenty sixteen, we started going to all the All
Star games. So we go to the NFLPA Game, the
Gridiron Game, East West Senior Bowl, and at the time
(42:38):
we went to the Combine. And so every year we
get about eight hundred to eight hundred and fifty draft
eligible prospects for our teams in COVID. All testing stopped
at the Combine. So it is it is, we've we've
got to find these guys who've got to go to
their pro days. We've got to we've got to get
go to thirty visits for these teams, and they're willing
(42:58):
to do it. The players, the prospects, the agent is like,
go and sit there for forty five minutes. For most
of the time. It is part of their process. It
is part of it's built into the bowl games. So
I'm not gonna lie. At the Combine. It was probably
six hours of testing these athletes did. It was part
of their process. Wonderlick was one of them that everybody did.
The NFL has their own tool, the pat that they do.
(43:20):
Everybody does that, and then every group of teams also
has their own tests. I think for the most part,
it's really beneficial to engage in this from the S
two perspective, I think that you know, when you see
this kind of stuff in the media, you're hanging your
hat on a number, and it's just the overall number
we examine, like I alluded to earlier, nine different specific
(43:42):
cognitive tests, and it's really it's the pattern. And what's
most important for these athletes and agents to understand and
to know is these pattern of results lead to a
particular style of play. And I think it can be
really helpful for an athlete to match up with an
organization or a coordinator or a particular scheme based on
(44:04):
their results. So you may have a we're going to
stick with the quarterback position. You may have a quarterback
who can't track a ton of moving objects. They may
have a little bit of tunnel vision. They may not
be able to do four or five Q reads, they
can only do two or three Q reads. You need
to know that so that you can build your playbook
in your system around that athlete rather than forcing them
(44:27):
into what you're doing. I think one of the most
enlightening comments we ever heard was from Dave Randa, who
was like, Wow, man, I have been trying to fit
my players into my scheme I should be building my
scheme around what these kids can do. And it's like, yeah, absolutely.
So for an athlete, it will help them at the
next level. A get up to speed, quick, quicker, and
be your front office and coaches know what you're how
(44:51):
you're wired, how you're built for the game, so that
they can plan around that. You get this this test
up and running, you're rolling. And now what's a good score,
like what's in the wonder like Ryan Fitzpatrick to forty?
We talk about it, Johnny Menzel get the high score,
we talk about it. A player gets a low score,
we roll our eyes and say, you know, and we
(45:13):
dance around that that topic. What's a high score? What's
a low score? And if I was to rally around
my client, if I'm an agent talking to teams, am
I what am I saying? Yep? Great question. So as
opposed to those tests that just make up their own
scoring scales, what we do is we take their raw
data and we provide Z scores and then translate that
(45:36):
into percentiles. So every score you hear, that's how that
player ranks among all test takers. So our database is
about four thousand professional football players, and so if you
hear they scored an eighty seven. That means they scored
better than eighty seven percent of all football players taking
the test. Okay, so buy statistics and buy our normal
(45:57):
shape distribution. Fifty is average, So if you score fifty,
you're dead in the middle of all pro players. I
just want that in perspective because most of the time
here somebody yeah yeah. And so our average range is
between forty and sixty. So if you score at forty four,
people are like, holy smokes. Forty four is average. I
mean that is an average NFL player as an average
(46:19):
pro player. So score we consider elite is eighty and above.
What we score high average is sixty to eighty. Average
is forty to sixty. Below average is twenty to forty.
And you know, one of the one of the poorer
scores between zero and twenty, which you just don't see
that often in pro football. All right, two more questions
from me. The first one is I never played football
(46:42):
at any level, but I counsider myself a quick processor.
Can I walk in and get an eighty seven percent?
Or do you need to have football to be able
to do the test itself? Yep, No, this is not football. Specific.
All of our batteries of tasks are different for each
for each sport, but it requires zero football knowledge, and
I think that's where we sort of separate ourselves from
other other products. We're truly measuring the way the brain
(47:04):
is wired and how that will influence their play, versus
needing some sophisticated knowledge. I'll tell you this is pretty
cool because we wanted to get in the question of
gaming in these elite gamers and how do they score
against athletes? Right, Yeah, So we took the top ten
Halo players in the world and put them on this
football battle and on average these guys scored sixty eight
(47:28):
So they scored only about sixty eight percent. So when
you see these quarterbacks with these elite scores, they're better processing.
They're quicker processors than the best gamers in the world.
I think it's important context. Obviously, this is a contract
deal where you work with teams and you work with
prospects and you work at the balls. If an everyday
Joe just wanted to listen to this podcast and see
(47:49):
how they could fare, they could always google a Wonderlick
test and try to take it. Is there a sample
test on the website that there's somewhere where we could
test ours two scores, whether getting into the gaming screens
or not. Is there a way to be able to
do it if you're not a part of an NFL
team or trying to have have for the NFL. Yeah, so
we yes, I'll say yes and no. So we have
(48:11):
our elite system that's built on laboratory based precision. We
carry around these proprietary response pads that can capture reaction
time within one one thousandth of a second. We have
scaled onto Xbox and so we're using that Xbox model
for the sub collegiate level. So anybody bought a college
will probably be on the Xbox. And we have testing
(48:32):
centers around the country that are primarily you know, sports
based facilities, your d ones, your travel baseball facilities, those
kinds of things that you could walk in and take
a test. Okay, last one, extra one, nature versus nurture
on this thing. Could you take any high school athlete
PLoP them in there is there a chance that kid
could get a ninety? Absolutely? Yep, yep. This is testing
(48:54):
the way the system your brain is wired and and
this is this is not something that you can study for.
This is not something you could practice a bunch. We've
seen you know, we've seen the the It's interesting you
see these scores lead you hear the Bryce Young story.
And we did test Bryce in high school, right, he
was at the Quarterback Collective. We work with Richmond followers
and the Quarterback Collective guys. But this is not something
(49:16):
that you're like, Hey, Bryce took it as a high
schooler and he kept taking it at Alabama, so he's
going to score better. It is how you're wired. Bryce
literally scored the same as he did at at his
facility as he did when he was a junior in
high school. So the system isn't changing that much. I'll
say there is some brain maturation, right, I mean, your
brain is still developing until you're early twenties, so there's
(49:39):
a little bit of moving the needle. But this is
how you're wired. And for those that are interested in training,
because you can improve You're not going to improve your
score on our test. You can improve that specific cognitive
skill in the field. So you've got to do all
of your work on the field. We would never recommend
somebody go in and take these iPad apps and stay
on the iPad. Hey, I'm gonna improve your batting average
(49:59):
by thirty points if you do this iPad app. That's
not how it works. It won't transfer it on the field.
You actually have to do very so if it cognitively
focused drills on the field to improve performance. So you
can't hire someone from the Capitlan SATC service and have
them tutor you and just prep you for the test
like I did for the That is impossible. And every
every test we do you're required well, I would say
(50:22):
ninety percent of the test your responses are within half
a second. Yeah, So there's no like studying. There's no
like gaming it or practicing it. I mean, this is
the only way you can do is not give full
effort and you'll get hammered. That test prep wasted. Anyway,
I got a three ninety in math and I paid
a tutor and the whole thing, And yeah, that was that. Uh, Brandon,
(50:43):
you're the man. Where you guys located. We're based out
of Nashville, Tennessee. Nashville, Tennessee. That's really cool. You're a
young guy and you and your partner are building a
really cool business. And I could already feel and making
an impact in the NFL, and it feels like it's
a cool grassroots story that you guys built us yourselves. Congratulations, dude,
appreciate it, man, thanks for having me on. Really appreciate this,
no doubt. Guys. Brandon Ally, what's the company called if
(51:05):
people want to look it up, Brandon S two cognition
dot com. We've got a lot of social media stuff
where we try to post some educational content if you're
interested in in you know how you know how cognition
plays out on the sports field. Um, yeah, follow us
on social and listen to our podcasts and yep, love
(51:25):
it all right, dude, thank you so much for joining us,
and I'm sure we'll be hearing about the S two
cognitive tests in the next couple of weeks. Thanks brother,
I really appreciate it. You know, we could have had
on a GM maybe we will, or a draft prospect.
(51:46):
I'm finding them to get they're all like running together.
We do one good Morning Fall interview, like eight prospects
a day, and I can't even get them straight. They
all are just wonderful young men. But it's like, I
don't know if I need to hear from a nineteen
year old kid about training for the draft. Um, I
sounded pretty dismissive. Sorry, uh, but we were talking as
we get back, Like, Brandon ally is the type of
(52:06):
guest Aaron like I want to have on I'd never
heard of S two cognitive tests. Apparently it's been around
for a while and teams are using it to get
an edge on the other half of the league. I
find that interesting. Yeah, I want to know what those
other half of the league teams need to do to
get the S two tests, because it sounds like, you know,
if you're some of these people are getting my leg up.
(52:27):
I think it's a competitive advantage. Brandon was cool too,
young guy at a Nashville and anyone who's an entrepreneur
and could build their own company, I appreciate that stuff.
We're gonna end the pod with what we're gonna do
every week. I think we're gonna take reader tweets and respond,
I said, off Mike, and I'm not copying anybody, but like,
I love when Ryan Russillo does life advice. I love
when Bill Simmons and cousin sal do parent corner. This
(52:50):
isn't exactly reinventing the wheel. Let's read some tweets. What
do we got eron? Yes, so we did. We did
some tweets and some emails, and we got a couple questions,
some of my favorite ones here, what's your take on
the Amazon Thursday Nights stuff? Okay, So I wasn't at
the league meetings, usually I am, and I hear it
was like a pretty interesting room where it was presented
(53:12):
that the Amazon Thursday Night schedule would have the ability
to flex games at the end of this season. And
there is a big contingent that was for that, and
I believe from what it sounds like, the league was
more than willing to help push that over the finish line.
But then there was a strong contingent against it in
that it's not fair to the fans, like Week fourteen,
(53:35):
Week fifteen, Week sixteen, if you've bought your tickets for
US Sunday in December and then you're told the game
is actually Thursday Night at seven thirty. John Marrow was
the biggest voice of that, the owner of the Giants,
and to me, I'm always amazed that it could get
to that point that it gets to the room and
we're out a vote, and now John Mara's voicing like
his this pleasure for it. But that's what these league
(53:57):
meetings are. You have thirty one different people in that room.
Thirty two it's a representative from Green Bay, and they
have opinions, and it's an open forum. You know, David
Tepper is worth you know how many billion he's got,
and he owned Wall Street. He's got a voice in
that room. And so does you know Mike Brown who's
the owner of the Bengals, and it's a family run business,
(54:19):
and he's got a thought. Now, from what I'm told,
the argument for the pro side of it is not
the Amazon people, you know, lobbying like we're in DC
on the Hill or something. What it is is it's
Amazon paid a lot of money for a standalone package,
just like ESPN pays a lot of money for a
standalone package. Now, if you're CBS or Fox, you get
(54:41):
a slate of seven games every weekend. So you could
kind of say, all right, we had an expectation that
Packers Giants was going to be important, but the Packers
have three wins and the Giants have six wins this year.
In this instance, actually San Francisco, New Orleans, that's who
we're sending our crew to and we're gonna tell them
on Monday and they'll be there Sunday and we've got
that game. Amazon did not have that luxury last year,
(55:02):
and nor did ESPN. So ESPN had a late season
Packers Rams Monday Night game that I don't remember, but
I'm sure when they were given that game in May
before last season, Packers, Rams, McVeigh, Stafford, Rogers, all that stuff,
they expected to have the game of the year late season.
(55:22):
Well it wasn't. It was a dud. ESPN is part
of their deal. They get some flex games now at
the end of the season. It makes sense they had
no other choice. That was the only game they can get.
And as much as a scheduling quirk that might be,
it is fair for a media company, according to those
who are in favor of this thing, to have that luxury,
no matter who had the Thursday night game, whether it
(55:45):
was Apple or Google, or if you're not CBS and
you're not NBC and you're not Fox, you're getting dealt
what the league gives you. And you're straddled with this
thing despite paying the same money as the other guys.
So I understand it, and it's a better product, and
it helps everybody to have people watching foot ball. But
(56:07):
I also hear the other side of it. It's kind
of BS for the players, it's kind of BS for
the fans, and it's kind of BS for the season
ticket holders who have to base their lives around those games.
When the schedule comes out in May. Right now, it
sounds like they don't have enough votes, but they're a
couple short. In May, they're gonna vote on it again.
I'd be shocked if it doesn't pass. All right. Number two,
(56:29):
we already talk succession a little bit. What's another show
you watched while you were off? All right? So it
sounds like the guy who comes along in you know,
twenty twenty three, and it's like you never see Seinfeld.
It's pretty funny. I resisted ted Lasso for a long
time because I just, I don't know, It's like it
(56:50):
seemed very hokey dokey, and it seemed a little cringey
when I would see the ads. This show is an
awesome I've loved it. I am cursing up a storm.
We binged a shit out of Ted Lasso while we
were off, while I was off with Praternity Leave. I
love it. I love everything about it. I think it's
well written. I think it's got so much heart. I
think the soccer stuff is good. I think it's funny.
(57:11):
And I am so into Lasso that you know, this
is a show that's not a streamer that everyone just
being just like I am caught up to date. I've
been watching the first few episodes of season three and
I'm like up to date and I am ready. I
don't know what dy it drops. I honestly don't. I
just I get excited. I opened the Apple app and
it's there. I don't know, said Akas. I don't know
(57:32):
any of the show runners. I don't know Bill Lawrence.
I don't know guys. Hats off to them to have
an earnest, yet well written comedy that isn't in the
Michael Shore parks and rec mockumentary, abbot elementary mocumentary office
mockumentary format of everyone you know is looking at a
camera off screen, rolling their eyes, because that's just what
(57:54):
comedy has become. It's a real show that is like
old school. I feel like I'm watching Cheers every week.
I love it. I have no cynicism. I know you
said you don't watch Succession Aaron, have you done Ted Lasso?
I have. So. We were so into season one, loved it,
loved it, loved it, watched all season two as well.
(58:16):
Have not started season three yet. Um there were there
were elements of season two that didn't hook me the
same way one did. One was was just beautiful. I thought, Um,
I personally I didn't love when the assistant coach like
kind of turns evil. Yes, spoiler alert, I apologize, it's
actually a weird subplot. Still, yeah, it continues on to
(58:39):
season three, and I'm not gonna give anything away, but
I agree, like, I still don't. I still don't know
why he's so angry at Ted. Yeah, and um he there, Yeah,
there were elements of that. I also, uh, I know
that Beard is one of the writers, but I remember
last season like Beard episode, be Beard episode. I was like, ah,
(59:03):
if you're not, if you don't watch it. Basically, they
have this normal show and the plot advances, and then
on like episode nine, Coach Beard just has this long,
never ending night where he ends up in like glitter
pants and he's it's just like this deep, deep cut
of an assistant coach, a secondary character. I read after
the fact because I did not like that episode either.
People love it, Aaron, people love it. I think it's
(59:25):
like I look and apparently they had done eight episodes
in scripts and then they were like supposed to do
two more so on the back end they did that
and the Christmas episode and they kind of just dropped
them in. People love the Beard episode. Yeah, no, I know, yep,
it didn't hit for me. That's you know, it's okay. Yeah.
(59:47):
Season three is a new character in it who I'm
already digging. And there's some strange Aaron Rodgers parallels to
this character. I'll leave it as that. Did see Sadakis
at a Nick game. He was sitting courtside. I was not,
but he was with the cast of Ted Last So
and those guys look like they actually really get along
(01:00:08):
off camera too, which is pretty cool. Yeah. Another show
I've been watching that I'm not sure if you watch
is your friend Paul Rodd's Party Down. So explain, because
I've watched Party Down on Bravo years ago. Stars Yes,
Stars Love, Adam Scott Love, Martin Star Love, Lizzie Kaplan
what is? And then I kind of I missed this?
(01:00:29):
So Stars has and Paul Rudd was an executive producer
and a writer and all that. It's back or it's
a reunion show. What is it? A little bit of both?
They revived it reunion, it's it like takes place post
pandemic and it's I think six. They're like like Martin Star,
it's like a forty year old man. He's a forty
year old cater still. Yeah, so they're all I mean,
(01:00:51):
the premise of the show is people in LA who
are in some creative field, typically who their side job
is a catering business. The beauty of the setup of
the show is that it takes place at a new
event every week. So sometimes it's a dance or it
is a fundraiser or it's a big award ceremony, and
the caterers are always the same, but they're working these
(01:01:11):
different events. And this one is kind of like catching
up with everyone. Adam Scott is back with the catering company.
It is. I laughed so much watched Okay, so here's
my question. I remember vaguely watching episode here there whatever.
I wasn't like a party down. Can I jump in
on these? Yeah? There there will be There are new characters.
(01:01:33):
There are some jokes that are like paid off from long,
long time ago. But you don't need by any means. Yeah, okay,
I love this stuff. All right, what's your last one?
I'm sure? Yeah. And we had plenty of football related
ones that we answered earlier, but this one is really,
I think the most draft relevant question we received, which is,
(01:01:53):
what are your thoughts on the Super Mario movie? I
loved it? Can I tell you why I loved it?
Eighty two minutes? Holy? Was that enjoyable? Eighty two minutes?
It's in and out. As a fellow Brooklyn resident, you'll
appreciate it starts off in animated Brooklyn. And I don't
(01:02:14):
need to go through the entire plot of the Mario
Brothers movie with you, but I will tell you this.
It's eighty two minutes. It starts. You know, every character.
I don't know if you need to know the backstory
on the Mario saga, but they give you one. You know,
comes from a couple of parents that were, you know,
expecting more out a young Mario in Luigi, and yet
here they are saving the world. Loved it, My son
(01:02:36):
loved it. It made three hundred and seventy seven million
dollars worldwide in its first weekend. That's no surprise. And
I think the coolest thing is and this could be,
you know, a bad sign, but I think the Marvel thing.
And again I might be on like Reddit in bad ways,
but like the Marvel things seem to be petering out
a little bit. The DC thing keeps on having to
these upstarts. We haven't even started the Nintendo thing. And
(01:02:59):
you know, I think everyone was burned by the original
Mario movie, which is now becoming a cult classic. People
are going back me. I'm like Bob Hoskins in the
original Nintendo movie. He deserved an award. If this opens
the door to a Zelda movie, and this opens a
door to a Castlevania movie, if this opens the d
to a Metroid, to Ninja guiding, you name it, I'm
(01:03:21):
here for it. And in the previews, there was a
Ninja Turtles preview for a movie coming out in August.
That's a new Ninja Turtles movie. So I am just
hitting this awesome period with my son where he can
sit through a movie. But if you tell me it's
a three hour movie, or if there's dark, you know,
plot twist with death littered throughout it, I'm not in
on it. Mario, great movie. Enjoyed it? Jack Black singing
(01:03:45):
Peaches Market Market down right now? April eleventh, Peter Schreeger saying,
Jack Black will win an Oscar for Best Song at
the Oscars next year. I know how hungry the Academy
Awards are for stars and for any sort of relevance,
and I also think it deserves it. Jack Black singing
the song Peaches, It's King, It's it's Bowser's epic nod
(01:04:09):
to the princess and his love for her. All right,
putting you on the spot here, you don't have to
answer this if you don't want. Who would be your
dream directors for a Zelda, A Metroid, a Castlevania movie? Okay?
Dream directors? Do I have to say to Daniels um No,
I would say, uh, gosh, I would love a Pta
(01:04:30):
look at Zelda the Journey, um you know for for
for Zelda with with Paul Thomas Anderson would be great. Uh.
Metroid would have to be probably like you're going Ridley
Scott style, like you gotta go go that way? And
what was the last one Castlevania Sylvania? Yeah? Any of them? Yeah?
I mean obviously you can go with with Jordan Peel
(01:04:53):
for Castlevania, or you can go with Eli roth Um.
I gotta think I know he says he's retiring after
this next one, but I gotta think a Tarantino spin
on Paperboy would be a fantastic, fantastic film. I had
a group text with some friends. We actually were debating
this the other day, and my submission was a Wes
(01:05:15):
Anderson fantastic mister Fox style Yoshi's story, all cutouts and everything,
but awesome. That's the podcast. Aaron Won Kaufman, you are
the man. Jason English, you are the best from iHeart obviously,
we love all our folks at the NFL with Meredith
Batten and Matt Schneider and Jason Kleman and us getting
(01:05:35):
this thing back off the ground and up and running again.
It would took a little hiatus. That's okay, we're back.
We're gonna get your draft stuff. To our guest Brendan Ally,
and to you the listeners, I'm Peter Schreeger and this
is the season. Joy. The Season with Peter Schreeger is
(01:05:58):
a production of the NFL and partnership with iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts from IHEARTRADIOVI is it the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
wherever you get your podcasts,
The Season with Peter Schreeger as a production of the
NFL in partnership with iHeartRadio. What's Up, Everybody, Welcome back
to the season with Peter Schreger. The last time we
(00:28):
did this podcast was at the Super Bowl in Arizona,
and it has been multiple months and multiple things have happened,
obviously in the football world, but also on a personal note,
I am a father of a new baby girl. This
was the big reason why I have not been on
the podcast the last few weeks, and I was on
(00:49):
paternity leave and not on Good Morning Football. In the
story is of course intertwined with the football and draft
and everything. So I'm at the Combine and it is
the Friday night of the Combine and the we're previewing
the next day. All right, We're previewing the next day,
and it comes to me and I'm talking about Will Levis,
(01:13):
the Kentucky quarterback. And I'm going into a real deep
dive on Will Levis about how in twenty twenty one
he had an offensive coordinator at Kentucky named Liam Cohen,
and Liam Cohen was then poached by the Los Angeles
Rams to be their offensive coordinator in twenty twenty two,
based on the job he did at Kentucky in his
familiarity with McVeagh from a previous part of his career.
(01:33):
With the Rams going deep on Liam Cohen talk about
Will live at Levis and my wife, who knows I'm
on TV, who knows I am fully engaged, and it's
hard enough to spit out stats and knowledge on Will
Levis on a Friday night in February is texting me
call me back a sap. Call me back, a sap,
(01:54):
Call me back a sap. All right, I'm about to
as were as I'm about to get to my phone,
Daniel Jeremiah starts listing off teams that might make sense
for a quarterback to be elected, and in my ear
Mark Teitelman, who's the producer of the combine, says, shregs,
we're gonna come to you. Just give us another team.
And I'm like frozen, paralyzed. I don't know what my
(02:16):
wife is calling about. I have no idea. Obviously, I
know what baby's on the way at some point, but
this is not when we were expecting it. It's early,
and I just get on camera and I just say, yeah, look,
I don't know what the deal is with Lamar Jackson
and the Ravens. I would think that the Ravens have
to put contingency plans on. And it's late February, but
I would think that the Ravens are going to do
(02:37):
all their due diligence on quarterbacks. Okay, go to commercial.
Call my wife. She's like, you gotta get home. This
thing is happening. All right, we're a couple weeks before
we thought we would be. I'm all and I'm looking
at my Twitter and it's blowing up and I've got
a million mentions. I'm like, what just happened? What did
I do? And they clipped off the clip of me
(02:58):
saying that the Ravens are going to be looking at
quarterbacks or should be looking at quarterbacks, and that went
like wildfire. And I swear it was before Lamar did
a trade request. It was before Lamar in the franchise tag,
it was before all the Lamar stuff. It was when
everyone thought Lamar was gonna be just fine and dandy,
and I just merely mentioned they might take a quarterback.
(03:20):
But it went like wildfire on Twitter, and I'm like,
I can't pay attention to that. Get home, and it
was a false alarm in that moment, but three days later,
our daughter was born. Her name is Betty Hazel. She
was born on March ninth, twenty twenty three. We are
so happy my son, Mel and Betty are all good.
(03:42):
The NFL network was cool enough to give me a
few weeks of paternity leave, which was important because my
son was also off on spring break for two weeks
and someone needs to entertain a six and a half
year old while my wife, Erica is with our baby daughter.
But I am back on air on Good Morning Football,
and I'm happy to announce we are bringing back this
(04:03):
season with Peter Schrager. It did not die at the
Super Bowl is going to be alive and we're going
to start going into high gear. I missed the entire
free agency window, and I apologize to the listeners for that.
Obviously I had other things going on. But we are
now a couple of weeks from draft, and I assure
you this is my sweet time and my time where
(04:25):
I like to hit home runs and keep you guys engaged.
I'll have more information than most I will share it
here on the podcast. I'll try to give you different
information than what you're getting on Good Morning Football, fresher, different,
more guests, all of that stuff. But I also feel
like I have a lot to catch up on with
the guys here in the room. We've got Aaron wang Kaufman,
(04:46):
my lovely producer and friend. We've got Jason English from iHeart,
who's in the building as well. Aaron, how are you?
Did you miss me? And what did I miss? Oh?
I'm great, of course I missed you. Yeah, And I
feel particularly bad that, unfortunately I didn't get to make
it the super Bowl this year to record with you,
because you know, day before I left tested positive for COVID,
(05:07):
so then I was not able to make it out
there and do the and do the recording. So I
haven't seen you in even longer than that. I know,
I know when I got that, Cause like that's so
finning that It's just we're gonna have this great way
to these plans of doing these you know, the great
Arizona hang Session and this whole thing. We're gonna bring
Brooklyn to Arizona, and then naturally COVID hits as it
(05:28):
always does. Um and you were not there, but Jason was.
We had a great two podcasts there, but the NFL
world keeps on spinning. Um, let's do what we do.
Let's go through five topics. You serve me up. You
tell me what you want to hear on and I'll
give you and I'll empty the bag on what I got.
And guys, if you're listening, it's good to be back
(05:48):
on the mics. I'm excited about this. Aaron. Let's go
all right. Well, first up, I mean, I know you
said you missed part of free agency, but there's still
some big things happening, namely Aaron Rodgers the Jets. What's happening?
Where do we stand with this? Where do we start? Okay,
so it's April eleventh as we record this, I'm gonna
go all the way back to that week of March sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth,
(06:14):
because that's when the Jets brass got the okay to
travel out to Malibu. Now, let me take you through this.
This hasn't been detailed as as much in depth as
maybe it should have been. Here's how it works. They
get the approval to be able to speak to Rogers.
Rogers gets out of his three four day, five day
darkness retreat, and you can roll your eyes if you
(06:35):
want it is what it is. That's what he did.
He says he wants to meet with the Jets. The
crew that traveled out to Malibu are the following head
coach Robert Sala, general manager Joe Douglas, team president himI
el High, Jets offensive coordinator Nathaniel Hackett, one team owner
(06:57):
Woody Johnson, another team owner Christopher Johnson. And you had
three different factions coming from three different places. So you
had Woody Johnson coming from Florida, you had Christopher Johnson
coming from Colorado, and you had all the other guys
coming from Jersey. They all fly in and yes, there
were cars parked outside of Rogers's house, and that made
(07:19):
a lot of news that the Jets would park in
front of his house. Who cares. Now it's thirty one
days later and he's still not a Jet, so none
of that matters. But yes, paparazzi picked up photos of
Woody exiting Rogers's house and Sala exiting rogers house. And
I'm told it was a four hour hang session for
most of them where Rogers hosted them. They all talked,
(07:40):
they all walked around his house, They talked about philosophy,
they talked about life. They talked about the team. Did
Rogers demand they picked players, No, but they were asking
him about certain players and his thoughts and he was
offering his feedback. Now as they exit, there's this feeling
of great optimism from everybody involved that this thing is
going to get done. The Jets brass flies back to
(08:03):
New Jersey. They're sitting in there waiting, and then Roger
decides in a couple of days he's going to go
on the Pat McAfee show. The McAfee interview I thought
was compelling. I also think Rogers and the Jets were
done no favors by some of the things that were said.
And I'm not blaming Rogers here. He was speaking to
his truth. He was talking what he wanted to say.
(08:25):
But I can tell you from sources around the league
that when Rogers was going through all his gratitude mentions
of mentioning you know, here we go. Bob Harlan was
the president of the Packers when I was drafted, and
Bob was a great guy. And this and that Mark Murphy,
the president of the Packers since two thousand and seven,
does not get a special shout out. He goes through
(08:45):
Ted Thompson, the late great Ted Thompson, who was the
evaluator of talent, who really put his name on Rogers instead,
it's time to move on far If he talks about
Ted Thompson quite a bit. No mention of Brian guten Kunz,
who's the current general manager. Now you could say, who
cares if he's not mentioned. When you're talking about the
equipment guys and members of the cafeteria, and you're talking
(09:06):
about all the coaches and all, and you start not
mentioning it. There's no reason that the Packers guys that
were gonna suddenly give Aaron Rodgers away for sixty cents
on the dollars. So they're staying firm on what they
think they need, which, to be honest, Aaron, as I'm
doing this conversation with you, I don't know the specifics
on that. I was told from people not in either
(09:30):
building that the Jets we're looking to make a trade
where it would not involve the first round pick, it
would not involve both of the second round picks, and
it would involve a future first that was conditional, meaning
we gotta get something out of Rogers. We can't just
(09:51):
get one gear or a commitment to one season, there's
got to be some sort of multiple season commitment in
which a first round pick is then triggered. If that
two years or one and a half years, or whatever
the starts that are required, it is not hit, then
it remains a second or third round pick, whatever it is. Packers, meanwhile,
are just like, well, we've got Rogers under contract already.
(10:14):
We agreed to one of the biggest contracts in NFL
history with him less than thirteen months ago, and we've
got Jordan Love playing on a rookie contract. Still, we're
gonna stay and stand tight here. It's now April eleventh.
Joe Douglass was on a local thing with Boomer and
Geo in Jersey City on Friday, in which he said,
like he'll be here, like Rodgers will be here. I
(10:36):
think everyone on both sides as the assumption that Aaron
Rodgers will not be a Packer and Aaron Rodgers will
be a New York Jets quarterback. But at some point
that trade needs to be executed, and then there's different
contract things that trigger. As we sit here on April eleventh,
I don't think we're any closer to either team giving
an inch on this now. If the Packers want a
(10:58):
first round pick, the Jets are steadfast and saying we're
not giving up a first round pick. If the Packers
want two second round picks, the Jets seem to be
steadfast and saying we're not giving up two second round picks. Aaron,
as I lay that all out to you, and this
conversation has been going on for days in the New
York media and also Green Bay media and also on Twitter.
Who holds the leverage in that situation. The guys who
(11:18):
have Rogers, who obviously wants to move on and said
he walked into that darkness retreat ninety percent sure he
was going to retire, or the Jets, who in this
case know that Rogers doesn't want to be there in
the Packers don't want Rogers there. Who has the leverage?
And if you're to pick, which side is going to
(11:39):
be the one that's gonna bend in the end, I
think whoever you ask is the one that has the leverage.
When he asked someone from the Jets, they have the leverage.
If he asked someone from the Packers, they have the leverage.
Because I mean, neither one, like you said, neither one
is thinking there's a different outcome. It's just a matter
of like, how do they get to this compromise of
what the picks are? And I think both of them
(12:01):
think the other one will bend first. I thought the
New York media would play a far bigger role in this.
They haven't. I thought every day on the back page,
it would be Joe Douglas with a clock and it's
say times tick and get this done, Get this done,
Get this done. But I feel like rational minds have
existed in the New York media on this thing, or
they've just been distracted with Mets, Yankees, Giants, nixt sets
(12:23):
like you know, Rangers, Islanders that Joe Douglas hasn't been
put through the crucible on this because I think at
a certain point, if the New York media was banging,
bang and bang and banging every single day, why is
this trade not done? Why is this trade not done?
Why is this trade not done? Why is this trade
not done? Joe go Douglas would say, Okay, look, it
certainly doesn't make the most football sense to give up
the thirteenth overall pick for a forty year old quarterback
and all the stuff, But let's just get it done.
(12:44):
Let's get Aaron Rodgers in the building. Let's start this thing.
He hasn't done that yet. I think the New York
media has been pretty kind to the Jets and the
Jets brass, because if I'm looking at it now from
thirty thousand feet, how do you get on that plane
to Malibu? How do you accord him? How do you
let all of your intentions be known? And how do
you not have that deal in place beforehand? To me,
that's the crazy part to it, that the intentions were
(13:06):
all made. You give up all your cards in this thing.
You show your cards that you're all in on Rodgers.
You're not gonna sign car, You're not gonna trade for
a little more, You're not gonna do any of that stuff.
And yet April eleventh, Rodgers is still not a New
York Jet, and I don't feel like it's gonna get
done until oh, I don't know, either draft day or
maybe even after the draft. I think both sides know
the ultimate conclusion is is that Rogers is going to
(13:30):
be a Jet. But like the second that draft starts,
it's on the clock really for that trade, and the
second it ends, like I don't know, the Jets lose,
or the Packers like just missed an entire year of
a draft where they could have picked up players that
could help. So I think the timing of the draft
being in two weeks is like puts pressure on the
(13:50):
Packers to make that trade so they get something in
return now, but without an owner, without anyone banging the
drum there to be like get it done. I don't
see the Packers having any urgency either, all right, from
one quarterback to another, we have I think the last
time that we were on, we were talking about Obj
deals and he finally signs with the Ravens for like
(14:11):
a little more than fifteen million, and immediately Lamar releases
the FaceTime photo of he and ob j facetiming, and
then this weekend they're hanging out in Miami together. What
do you what? What does this mean for the Lamar
Ravens deal? What's this mean? Just in general with Baltimore.
I wish I could give you an answer on Lamar Jackson,
(14:33):
and I even sit on the show on Monday that like,
I don't think Odell signs with the Ravens without knowing
or having some sort of assurance that Lamar Jackson is
throwing him passes. But if anybody in the media is
trying to pose as like a voice of Lamar or
give you some insight on Lamar, they're full of shit.
The raven side, they don't give much secrets out either.
(14:56):
I think from their angle on this thing, they've offered
Lamar Jackson multiple contracts that they think is is fair.
He has rebuffed them over the course of two years
with those multiple offers, and he's betting on himself a
little bit and saying, I think that there's more money
out there for me. And from what everyone says that
the Shawn Watson contract last year that was two hundred
(15:18):
forty million dollars guaranteed really was the trigger and all
of this, and that Lamar is look at that in
the number, Well he's not getting that number. It's not
going to get that number from the Ravens at least.
So again with the Rogers, the thing time about who
has to compromise, who has to bend. From a strictly
on paper way of analyzing this, you say, all right,
(15:40):
the Ravens have offered you multiple deals. The Ravens have
offered to make you one of the highest paid quarterbacks
in the league. The Ravens want to tell you that
they're your guy. The Ravens have publicly said they're two
hundred percent behind you. The Ravens blood the audit. The
Ravens have then changed the offensive coordinator, which seemed to
be a problem with the offense. Who knows, I seem
like Lamar had a lot of success in that offense.
(16:00):
But let's say that they'd moved on just for the
fact that Romans been there for six years. Time to
move on. Todd Monkin comes in. Then the Ravens go
out and get Odell Beckham, which, again on paper, you
say that guy's gonna be thirty one years old, is
coming off two acls, he didn't play last year. Regardless,
he's already their number one wide receiver. He's being paid
like a number one wide receiver. So they got him
(16:21):
the number one wide receiver on the market that was
available at the time. You add in Mark Andrews, you
add in Dobbins, you add in what seems to be
a pretty good offensive line. You're saying, we're doing everything
we can on our end, and we're still offering you
this very very handsome salary and this very very attractive
(16:42):
deal if you're willing to sign it. But Lamar hasn't
budged and FaceTime photos or not. It's now been more
than twenty four hours since they went and they made
a trade for Odell or they went and they signed
Odell Beckham, and they signed odeb Beckham for more money
than any other team I know is offering them. And
I think that might be from one to two to
(17:03):
three to four more a million dollars than anyone else
was offering Odell Beckham. So all that stuff happened. They
know they partied in Miami, is what the headline is.
They were at a club together, they were talking. I
also saw photos of Odell Beckham sitting and talking with
Joe Burrow and Donald Trump. So I don't know how
much they were hanging on Saturday in Miami. I don't
know what that meant, if they saw each other, if
(17:25):
they said what's up? I know they were seeing next
to each other. Lamar had that face like I can't
get out of this club quick enough. Nothing against Odell.
I think Lamar just wasn't looking to be hanging there
all night in the photo that I saw. I don't
know anyone who tells you that that this is a
slam dunk. Now Lamar is gonna accept less money after
he's hold out for more money all this time. I
don't know again, draft, if Lamar still has not signed
(17:50):
with the Ravens, and Lamar still has not agreed to
the franchise tag, and the draft starts, and the Ravens
at the twenty second pick, and let's just say Anthony
Richardson or Will Levis starts slipping seven, eight, nine, ten,
suddenly got like the eleventh, the twelfth, thirteenth pick, and
those teams don't need quarterbacks. Does Baltimore say screw it
(18:11):
and get themselves some assurance. Do they go and they
trade up and get a Will Levis? Did they go
up and trade up and get an Anthony Richardson. Did
they sit at twenty two and take Kendon Hooker just
to light a fire under Lamar. Anything's possible at this point.
I think the Ravens have tried to come to terms
with a contract for Lamar for over two years. What
I read is that when Josh Allen signed his contract
(18:32):
in the summer of I guess it was summer twenty twenty.
Was COVID now twenty twenty one. He signed his deal
in twenty twenty one. He signed this big contract, same
drive class as Lamar, everything I'll think being equal. He's
already made sixty six million dollars in cash. Lamar was
offered a similar deal at that time or at the
(18:52):
very least shortly thereafter, and has rebuffed it every time
along the way and has made you know, far less again.
He might win this thing. He might make all the money.
He might make a stand for quarterbacks, so that guaranteed
quarterback money is a thing that we put in the NFL.
Owners have to grind their teeth, and Lamar is going
to be a groundbreaker in a lot of ways. In
the short term. The Ravens, I think they've got to
(19:13):
look at the calendar and say, Okay, is it time
for us to maybe create a contingency plan here where
we select a quarterback in the NFL draft. Okay, another
team who is looking at quarterbacks in the NFL draft.
The Panthers traded up for the first overall pick. And
you know, the conversation now is Bryce Young, C J. Strout,
(19:33):
maybe Anthony Richardson, what do you think is going to
happen there? I'm following it really closely, and I know
that they're meeting with everyone. Things you need to know
about this Panthers team and what they did this offseason.
They spent so much money on their offensive coaching staff,
so much money. It wasn't enough that they hired Frank Reich.
(19:54):
They also went out and they brought Jim Caldwell, And
they also went out and brought Josh mccownen they brought out.
They went out and they got duced Staley. They are
spending a ton of money on their coaches. David Tepper
has opened up his wallet and he has gone above
and beyond to say, we are going to create the
most nurturing environment for whatever this young quarterback is and
(20:14):
whoever this young quarterback is. And on defense, they paid
head coach money for defensive coordinator. Ever, Oh, they are
spending real money to put the culture right in the
average between McCown and Reich, I think I did the numbers.
I think McCown played fifteen years in the league and
Reich played like eighteen years in the league. That's thirty
(20:36):
three years of quarterback experience. And I'm not a math major.
It might have been more or less whatever it is,
but that's thirty three years of quarterback experience. Then you
add in Jim Caldwell, who has coach Peyton Manning in
Indianapolis as coach Matthew Stafford and Detroit and has had
playoff seasons with both those teams. You put all that
together and then you say, Okay, give us a young
(20:57):
quarterback that you can PLoP in there and they're going
to learn. They have no other choice and they're going
to learn and they are going to succeed with that coaching.
I think Bryce Young is the pick that's on April eleventh.
The draft is in sixteen days. Things can change. I've
had countless times where I've been told from people around
the league that this is what I think is the pick,
(21:17):
and go with it, and then in the week that happens,
things change. This is my take as of now. I
think Bryce Young is the superior quarterback in every single
category to CJ. Stroud except for height, weight, size. And
you could say, well that's a lot. Well, the NFL
is changing, and with that quarterback coaching and with the
(21:40):
way an offense can be built and the way that
the mobile quarterback and the way that he works in
that pocket. I feel like it's something that they can
overlook right now. Now you could say, and you'd be
absolutely right. There's never been a quarterback of that size
in that build to have great success in this league.
Drew Brees. It was shorter, but Drew Brees was big.
He was like a stocky guy. Kyler Murray, whether you
(22:01):
think he's a success or not. Kyler Murray was under
six feet, but Kyler Murray is built like, you know,
a pretty big. This dude is slight. And the comparison
that everyone makes, everyone makes to Bryce Young is Steph Curry,
not not Hey, but Colt McCoy was this size or
(22:21):
Chase Daniel was this size. No, they go NBA Steph
Curry because of his point guard qualities at quarterback. Word
is that Nick Saban has been singing about this guy.
And you can say, well, Nick Saban sings about all
these guys. He does, he does, but I don't think
he's been singing about Jalen Hurts to or Back Jones
(22:41):
like he sings about this guy. Bryce Young, first Alabama
quarterback to win the Heisman obviously has had a ton
of success under Nick Saban in that offense. But he
has been that dude since he was a high school
player in Pasadena, California and came out here. He is
(23:01):
incredible in meetings. His voice is a little softer than
you might imagine, like this, like the Will Levis type
or one of these guys. He's a soft spoken young man,
but has like the leadership of a general. It's what
everyone says. He can lead the room. He's a savant
of the game and in the pocket he is so elusive.
If you watch some of these clips, he can move
(23:23):
like no one else can right now in the NFL.
In the pocket, he's got crazy footwork. The con of course,
is that that was against the SEC defenders. That's great,
that's fine. The NFL has guys who are six foot
seven six ft. The Atlanta Falcons have Calais Campbell, who's
gonna be breathing down his neck. The Atlanta Falcons have
(23:44):
a ton of other players that are gonna be coming
for him. David an Yumada is a huge guy. You
go to the Saints, Cam Jordan's a different type of
beast than what he saw in the SEC the past
few years. I think the number one pick is going
to be Bryce Young. I say that on April eleventh,
and I think that's the right pick if Carolina is
comfortable with his size everything else. Nothing against c J. Stroud,
(24:05):
Levis or Richardson. I just believe that Bryce Young has
all those qualities to be a face of the franchise
and be the quarterback for the Carolina Panthers in the future.
Number four, what's up with Cliff Yeah Kingsbury news late
last night is that he's going to be working with
the USC Trojans Now. The last time we spoke, As
(24:28):
you guys know, I'm very close with Cliff Kingsbury. He
it was in Thailand the last time we did this,
and that was around Super Bowl and he left. I
actually hung out with him the Friday of Super Bowl
at his place in Arizona, so he was back. We
had a long talk and the debate was do I
want to come back to football take a year off,
or do I want to do TV? Do I knew
anything like that? Cliff really never was considering the TV stuff.
(24:49):
He wanted to lay low. However, multiple teams expressed interest
and bringing him in either for an interview or just
giving him the job straight up. In the NFL, as
the offensive coordinator. He did go and meet with the
Houston Texans. He did have a really good interaction with
to Miko Ryan's but it wasn't the right fit. He
wasn't ready to take that job and take on the
responsibility of being an offensive coardiner in the NFL in
(25:10):
Houston at this time because I need a little breath,
and if they can't give me a couple, you know,
weeks whatever, as I consider and think this out, then
it's probably not best for us. So Houston moves on.
They hire Bobby Slowik, who was with Demiko and San Francisco.
Everyone's happy. They'll have a quarterback at number two and
they'll be fine. In the last couple of weeks, Cliff
was thinking about things. He has been traveling a lot.
(25:32):
He's been all over different countries. He's been all over
the America. He was in Miami for a bit. I
know that I had a friend who was like, I
think I saw Cliff Kingsbury at the Ultra Festival in
Miami at a rave. I'm like, it's possible. Sure enough,
Cliff was in Miami that weekend. Yes, he was. Cliff
Kingsbury and Lincoln Riley go back a long way. Of course,
they have history together and they've had several quarterbacks that
(25:55):
have overlapped over the years. And position was presented where
you could live in Los Angeles. You're not going to
be a title of coordinator. You're not gonna have to
route as much as if you were the head coach
of a college program. I don't even know how much
recruiting Cliffs is gonna do. I remember when he was
last year and I were talking. We were talking about
(26:15):
Texas Tech and all the stuff, and He's like, I
just can't imagine doing the recruiting stuff again, especially now
with Nil and all that. Stuff like that did not
appeal to him. Cliff Kingsbury, he's a coach. That's what
he wants to He wanst a coach. And so when
you give him this Caleb Wilson, who is the Heisman
Trophy winner and it is going to be the first
or second overall pick next year, you give him Lincoln Riley,
who's a dear friend. You give him Los Angeles, which
(26:37):
is a place where he was already heart. His heart
was already set on living when he accepted the USC
offensive coordinator job a few years ago before bolting for
the Cardinals, and then you say, Okay, you could still
keep your place in Arizona. You could keep you could
have a new place in usc you could live in
both places. You can you know, be part of this
great run we're doing, but we're not going to commit
you to this all in head coach recruiting type deal.
(26:59):
I think it's the perfect situation. Look, there's a lot
of people who are so critical a Cliff. I don't
understand that. Everyone's you know, I was on a text
chain and an agent was texting me and he was like,
all this guy does is fail upwards. I'm like, he's
taking a consultant role on a college football team, Like
why is that? It's not like he was just given
one hundred million dollars to go coach the Patriot's like
(27:21):
he was, He's going. He likes coaching, he wants to
coach this kid. He wants to have some sort of
work life balance, and I think he's gonna get it.
So I'm happy for Cliff. We'll see if he if
he if he hits the ground running and he's all
in on this thing, or if it's one of those
deals where he's coaching but he's also keeping his eye
in the NFL and we'll see what happens after that.
All right, we're leading up to the draft. We just
(27:41):
got a couple of weeks. Do you have a favorite
draft prospect that you've been watching or that you're excited
to see where they go, you know at the end
of the month. But we just did a four hour
tongue wagging session on Bryce Young. I think he could
do is as commercial. I don't know who Bryce Young's
agent is, and I will say this, this is gonna
be a different I don't know who any of these
guys agents are. I take pride in that I don't.
(28:02):
I get this all the time when I'm like talking
about prospects and then they'll say, like, it's because he's
friends with the agent. I'm like, most most of these
guys agents, I don't even know who they are. And
they've got NFL prospects that are making one hundred million
dollars and they've got NFL players that are on their
second contracts. These agents, aren't they know that, you know,
they could give me a heads up on this guy
(28:23):
that's that's impressing team, or this guy met with this team.
But anything an agent tells me is not going to
help where this player gets drafted. Truly. Like I could
talk about Bryce Young all day long. If if the
Panthers want to take CJ. Stroud, because Peter Schreker was
talking about Bryce Young on Good Morning Football, it's not
going to get him drafted before CJ. Stroud. That said,
(28:45):
I've got a guy I like. He's a wide receiver
at a All Miss, and I'm surprised he's not getting
all the love that everyone else got. He was at
the Senior Bowl, he was at the Combine, and he's
built like all these old Miss guys. And he's six
foot two, he's two hundred and twenty pounds, he runs
a four or four or forty. I'm talking about my guy,
Jonathan Mingo. Remember that name, Jonathan Mingo. He might go
(29:05):
second or third round. I don't know, but I could
see Jonathan Mingo being that dude who we're at the
twenty eight twenty nine thirty part of the draft and
a team's like, you know what, We're taking Jonathan Mingo?
All right? So Mingo did not have huge numbers. He
had a foot injury a couple of years ago, but
he is six to two twenty and comes from the
same factory of wide receivers at AJ Brown, DK Metcalf,
(29:26):
Elijah Moore have all come from in recent years, and
everyone said he's an awesome interview. He runs the routes,
he's raw physically because he's such a big guy that
you know you could do anything with him. I just
saw this happen with A. J. Brown, I saw it
happen with DK Metcalf, and I saw it happen with
Elijah Moore. I don't know why everyone's against the giant
wide receiver out of all miss I am into that.
(29:47):
I think those guys are three for three for having
some success in the league. And if anything, I'll trust
the history from that school and a guy who I'm
told as interviewing really well and went to the Senior
Bowl and played as a you know, as a senior
at college like in the SEC. So that's my name.
Everyone's gonna give you all these different prospects, and that's great.
I usually have an eye for these things and usually
hear it from the right people. I'm gonna say, Jonathan
(30:09):
Mingo Aaron and I do not know who his agent is. Awesome. Well, um,
I am excited to see especially because his size profile
is so different than all these other receivers that we
have in this draft. I mean kind of like Bryce
Young on the quarterbacks. But yeah, Mingo got some some
buzz around the Senior Bowl, so we should That'll be
fun to see where he goes. Was there five points?
(30:31):
We go through it? Aaron's feel good to be back.
It feels great. One thing we didn't hit, and I
want to spring it on you because I assume you're
all caught up. We're Succession, Season four, episode three. Oh
my god, if you tell me you haven't watched it yet, Like,
what are we doing? As mister? Should we move to
the ad break now? I just haven't watched you haven't
(30:51):
watched it. Now, I haven't watched this episode. I haven't
watched any of it. I haven't watched any of success
You've never seen an episode of Succession, never seen it?
What are you doing? What do you want to know?
I know I think at this point I am chasing you. Yeah,
I think it's I'm just gonna wait till the end
and then watch all of it at once. I don't
I don't know. I know it's amazing. Everyone tells me
(31:14):
it's amazing. Like, I'll admit to you, I never saw
a Game of Thrones. I never saw an episode of it. Um,
I don't as a New Yorker, as someone who loves media,
as someone Aaron, this is a I'm gonna say this,
This is an atrocity. Yeah, I know, I was. I
(31:36):
was hoping you We're gonna bring it up. We are,
We're gonna go We're gonna go to a commercial break.
I don't even know if we have commercials. We're gonna
go to a commercial break right now. We're gonna hash
this out. We'll be back in a second. One thing
we pride ourselves on and this podcast is being ahead
of the curve, but also being a smart podcast. We're
(31:58):
not just gonna be throwing stuff at the wall. We
want to make you smarter when you're listening to it,
and we want to make you aware of trends that
are coming and things that are happening in the league.
And you know, I've been doing a lot of work
on the draft the last few months and obviously in
the last few weeks as I build my first mock
draft is going to come out next week. Been talking
to teams directly and when you talk to teams. They
(32:19):
use a lot of those terms. They use the hip swivel,
they use the catchability radius. They talk about, you know,
this guy's really good above the neck, which means he's smart.
And that's a word that you would never use in
real conversation. You would ever say the words this person's
really impressive above the neck. That's what they say in conversations.
And one thing that continues to be mentioned that I
(32:40):
had not heard of, and I'm almost ashamed I haven't.
It's something called the S two score. The S two score,
So okay, I'm nodding along, And a lot of these
conversations and multiple teams are mentioning the S two, the
S two. And I grew up in a wonderlick world,
so I've always known the wonderlock one to forty and
if this train starts at you know, stop, a train
b ends, it stops c and who is the fast train?
(33:02):
All that stuff. I grew up in a wonderlick draft world.
Sounds like there's a new show in town. It's the
S two, and it is a processing test. And to
get it explained better than me going on the company
website and trying to read I thought I would bring
someone from the company itself. This is our guest today.
This is Brandon Ally, and Brandon Ally is from the
(33:25):
S two test. I don't know what are you coming
with the companies called or whatever it's but Brandon, when
I reached out on the company website and said contact us,
your email came up, we interacted, you showed you sent
me white papers, and I am fascinated by any new
measure of intelligence and processing that this league is using.
And I know the NFL network and ESPN are not
talking about the S two scores yet, but they might
(33:46):
be soon. Brandon Ally, Welcome to the season with Peter Schreeker.
Thank you, appreciate it. Glad to be here. Brandon explained,
what is the S two test, dude, And start off
with what the test is, and then I'll pepper you
with questions because I love the stuff. Yeah. Man, so
I think it's really clear because you you illustrated a
(34:07):
great a great point with the wonderlick. Right, These IQ tests,
these intelligence tests, Uh, you know, there's there's no football
player on the planet that is when the ball is
snapped going to have to decide how fast trains are moving. Um,
and so we actually we stay away from the whole
IQ piece, the whole intelligence, the whole book smarts things
(34:27):
that is absolutely not what we measure. When we're gonna
go ahead and assume that these scouts in front offices
have done their homework on how well a guy is
going to learn their playbook, how well they can understand
complexity and things like that, what we measure are those speeded,
rapid cognitive processing that occurs once the ball is snapped.
So as an example, uh, you know you can you
(34:48):
can hear all of the arm armchair quarterbacks in the
world tell you, well, if the dB covers the curl,
you throw to the flat. If he covers the flat,
you throw it to the curl. It's way more complex
than that. And they can tell you the rules. There's
a host of quarterbacks that can tell you the rules.
But when the ball is snapped and they have to
filter through all of those rules, they become slow, they hesitate,
(35:09):
they may throw to the wrong route. So we're interested
in those cognitive processes. Is very rapid processing of visual information,
speeded decision making and execution of athletes when they're in
the game. So that's a big differentiator from previous things
or what's out there currently, whether they're really just tapping
(35:29):
into a player's IQ or their book smarts or their
ability to understand concepts within football. All right, so you
see with the wonderlock, and I hate to keep mentioning
a competitor, and you're probably like, ah, we don't really
acknowledge it. We just call it IQ test. Fine, IQ test.
Here are twelve questions in four minutes. Can you finish it?
And can you get them as many right as possible?
(35:49):
What is the S two tests? How do you measure
processing in a test like form? So it's important to
note that you know, Scott and I my co founder,
Scott Wiley, we didn't invent these tasks. These tasks have
been in laboratories around the world for decades to understand
how the brain works in speeded environments. So every you know,
(36:12):
we present stimuli and you have to respond most of
the time on our test in under half of a
second or within a second. Right, And they're facing these
tasks that have been used in the laboratory for decades,
and we try to understand the system itself. So I'm
going to use an example of impulse control, right, impulse
control task for us is one of the best predictors
(36:33):
of chase rates in Major League Baseball. It's one of
the best predictor of interception rate for quarterback hold penalties
for offensive linemen. We test the system. So think about
when you're sitting at a red light right in the
turn lane next to you turns green, and you hit
the gas and you go and you you hit the
break right. That's your impulse control system engaging. Some of
(36:54):
us are quicker and don't fall prey to that kind
of stuff, and others of us, man, we're hitting it
as soon as it turns green. We can test that
overall system and then make That's where Scott and I
have sort of built the business around, is interpreting that
in how it's going to manifest on the field. So
impulse control is really important for chasing sliders out of
(37:14):
the zone, you've got to inhibit that, or for partial
read throwing it into traffic because it looked good right
off the snap right, you've got to inhibit those responses.
So we test that system using sort of classic laboratory tests.
Give me an example of a classic laboratory test without
having it, you know, visually in front of us right now.
But if I'm Peter Schreeger PROSPECTS seven thirty five at
(37:37):
the combine, I'm sitting down for an S two tests.
What is the actual test? Yep? So our test is
about forty five minutes in which you sit in front
of a specialized gaming system that was built for millisecond precision.
One of the tests that I think a lot of
companies may use is object tracking, So how many objects
You've got to broaden your attention and keep track of
(37:58):
many moving objects? Right? An example of a laboratory based
test is you may you may have to track three
or four objects for ten or fifteen seconds. And here's
where Scott and I got a little bit more sophisticated,
is that's not how football operates, right. You've got to
have a play is three to five seconds. And so
we duplicated with how many objects are on the screen.
Is what a quarterback or a safety is going to
(38:19):
have to look at. And we actually measured how quickly
dbs and receivers move across the field. And so that's
how quickly our balls move across the screen. It's only
for three or five seconds like an NFL play, So
we really tried to narrow down the laboratory tests, which
may have ten or fifteen balls moving across the screen
and you've got to keep track of three of them.
(38:39):
We push the limits there. We make these defensive backs
and these middle linebackers have to track nine objects, right,
because that might be their life within three seconds at
the speed in which the game moves. So it's really
it's sports specific in that respect, but it is a
classic sort of computer based laboratory test. I'm interested in
the business of this stuff too, So the Wonderlock for
(39:00):
years is the gold standard. You guys come up with
this idea which is using classic tests but also using
modern technology. How do you get teams to buy in
to use it, how do you get prospects to agree
to do it? How do you get that story? What's
your origin story? If I'm on Shark Tank and you're
trying to pitch it to me, what's the story behind
the story? Yeah, so I'll give you a little bit
of origin story, and then I'll give you the way
(39:20):
that we operate. Because I think there's a lot of
misconceptions out there about who has access to the data
and all of those kind of things. So Scott and
I were both college athletes. I was a student athlete
at the University of Tennessee in the early nineties when
coach Tommy Moffatt was there, and he's the strength of
conditioning coach. It was just recently the strength and conditioning
coach at LSU. And I've had a twenty five year
(39:42):
relationship with Tommy, and so in twenty thirteen, I picked
up the phone and said, Hey, here's what Scott and
I are doing. And he was like, a guy, you
got to get down here and give this to the coaches.
So really we built the product at LSU. We bade
attested time and time again and again. Scott and I
we weren't like, hey, we know football. You know, Scott
played college football and college baseball. But it was one
(40:02):
of those things where we went to the experts and
you know, we asked Corey Raymond, Hey, what do defensive
backs have to do? What do you have? What do
your safeties have to do? And we worked through this
process for a few years at LSU, and then what
happened was the Saints, who were right down the road
from LSU. I think Jeff Ireland was at LSU for
a day or something scouting players and Jack Marucci, who's
(40:23):
one of our biggest allies, we don't don't we don't
put anything out in the market without working with Jack
for a year on it. Jack mentioned this to Jeff,
and Jeff picked this up, and so we went through
a three year period where we worked with exclusively with
the Saints and Cowboys, just figuring out does the product
measure what we say it measures, does it predict on
field performance, those kinds of things. And once that was
(40:47):
sort of rolling after about three years, we decided we
were going to go to one team in every division
because we didn't want everybody to have access this. We
wanted some level of exclusivity to get in there. So
we went to one team in every division and it
kind of worked through through guys they trusted and through
guys they knew. So Jeff Ireland had worked with Brandon,
so he picked up the phone and called Brandon Bean.
(41:09):
Chris Ballard was in the initial Ryan Poles when he
was at the Chiefs were one of the initial groups.
So we then had a small, tight knit group that
we really worked with. Their analytics groups, We really validated,
we did test retest, we did players on and off
ADHD Meds. I mean, we really dug into this, and
then a year and a half ago we decided we
(41:32):
wanted to open up a little bit more. And right
now it's just open to two teams in every division,
so only half of the league gets these scores, and
so we are not. And the way it operates, the
contracts operate, is those teams own the data, So we're
not allowed to discuss the data. We're not allowed to
give the data anybody else. Any scores that you see
in the media or leaked or whatever that's not us,
(41:55):
that's coming from either agents or front offices, or or
just supposition, because we've seen some outright way off the
mark claims. But ultimately only only right now, only fifteen
teams get the data and use it in their process. Well,
you can tie it to my sources if you guys
follow us. Who's got the data? Who doesn't? When I
(42:15):
told you that, I keep on hearing about the s
two scores. How does the prospect in the combine then
take this test and then how do they use that
as something that they can use as a pro as
opposed to a con Yeah, great, great question. So in
about twenty sixteen, we started going to all the All
Star games. So we go to the NFLPA Game, the
Gridiron Game, East West Senior Bowl, and at the time
(42:38):
we went to the Combine. And so every year we
get about eight hundred to eight hundred and fifty draft
eligible prospects for our teams in COVID. All testing stopped
at the Combine. So it is it is, we've we've
got to find these guys who've got to go to
their pro days. We've got to we've got to get
go to thirty visits for these teams, and they're willing
(42:58):
to do it. The players, the prospects, the agent is like,
go and sit there for forty five minutes. For most
of the time. It is part of their process. It
is part of it's built into the bowl games. So
I'm not gonna lie. At the Combine. It was probably
six hours of testing these athletes did. It was part
of their process. Wonderlick was one of them that everybody did.
The NFL has their own tool, the pat that they do.
(43:20):
Everybody does that, and then every group of teams also
has their own tests. I think for the most part,
it's really beneficial to engage in this from the S
two perspective, I think that you know, when you see
this kind of stuff in the media, you're hanging your
hat on a number, and it's just the overall number
we examine, like I alluded to earlier, nine different specific
(43:42):
cognitive tests, and it's really it's the pattern. And what's
most important for these athletes and agents to understand and
to know is these pattern of results lead to a
particular style of play. And I think it can be
really helpful for an athlete to match up with an
organization or a coordinator or a particular scheme based on
(44:04):
their results. So you may have a we're going to
stick with the quarterback position. You may have a quarterback
who can't track a ton of moving objects. They may
have a little bit of tunnel vision. They may not
be able to do four or five Q reads, they
can only do two or three Q reads. You need
to know that so that you can build your playbook
in your system around that athlete rather than forcing them
(44:27):
into what you're doing. I think one of the most
enlightening comments we ever heard was from Dave Randa, who
was like, Wow, man, I have been trying to fit
my players into my scheme I should be building my
scheme around what these kids can do. And it's like, yeah, absolutely.
So for an athlete, it will help them at the
next level. A get up to speed, quick, quicker, and
be your front office and coaches know what you're how
(44:51):
you're wired, how you're built for the game, so that
they can plan around that. You get this this test
up and running, you're rolling. And now what's a good score,
like what's in the wonder like Ryan Fitzpatrick to forty?
We talk about it, Johnny Menzel get the high score,
we talk about it. A player gets a low score,
we roll our eyes and say, you know, and we
(45:13):
dance around that that topic. What's a high score? What's
a low score? And if I was to rally around
my client, if I'm an agent talking to teams, am
I what am I saying? Yep? Great question. So as
opposed to those tests that just make up their own
scoring scales, what we do is we take their raw
data and we provide Z scores and then translate that
(45:36):
into percentiles. So every score you hear, that's how that
player ranks among all test takers. So our database is
about four thousand professional football players, and so if you
hear they scored an eighty seven. That means they scored
better than eighty seven percent of all football players taking
the test. Okay, so buy statistics and buy our normal
(45:57):
shape distribution. Fifty is average, So if you score fifty,
you're dead in the middle of all pro players. I
just want that in perspective because most of the time
here somebody yeah yeah. And so our average range is
between forty and sixty. So if you score at forty four,
people are like, holy smokes. Forty four is average. I
mean that is an average NFL player as an average
(46:19):
pro player. So score we consider elite is eighty and above.
What we score high average is sixty to eighty. Average
is forty to sixty. Below average is twenty to forty.
And you know, one of the one of the poorer
scores between zero and twenty, which you just don't see
that often in pro football. All right, two more questions
from me. The first one is I never played football
(46:42):
at any level, but I counsider myself a quick processor.
Can I walk in and get an eighty seven percent?
Or do you need to have football to be able
to do the test itself? Yep, No, this is not football. Specific.
All of our batteries of tasks are different for each
for each sport, but it requires zero football knowledge, and
I think that's where we sort of separate ourselves from
other other products. We're truly measuring the way the brain
(47:04):
is wired and how that will influence their play, versus
needing some sophisticated knowledge. I'll tell you this is pretty
cool because we wanted to get in the question of
gaming in these elite gamers and how do they score
against athletes? Right, Yeah, So we took the top ten
Halo players in the world and put them on this
football battle and on average these guys scored sixty eight
(47:28):
So they scored only about sixty eight percent. So when
you see these quarterbacks with these elite scores, they're better processing.
They're quicker processors than the best gamers in the world.
I think it's important context. Obviously, this is a contract
deal where you work with teams and you work with
prospects and you work at the balls. If an everyday
Joe just wanted to listen to this podcast and see
(47:49):
how they could fare, they could always google a Wonderlick
test and try to take it. Is there a sample
test on the website that there's somewhere where we could
test ours two scores, whether getting into the gaming screens
or not. Is there a way to be able to
do it if you're not a part of an NFL
team or trying to have have for the NFL. Yeah, so
we yes, I'll say yes and no. So we have
(48:11):
our elite system that's built on laboratory based precision. We
carry around these proprietary response pads that can capture reaction
time within one one thousandth of a second. We have
scaled onto Xbox and so we're using that Xbox model
for the sub collegiate level. So anybody bought a college
will probably be on the Xbox. And we have testing
(48:32):
centers around the country that are primarily you know, sports
based facilities, your d ones, your travel baseball facilities, those
kinds of things that you could walk in and take
a test. Okay, last one, extra one, nature versus nurture
on this thing. Could you take any high school athlete
PLoP them in there is there a chance that kid
could get a ninety? Absolutely? Yep, yep. This is testing
(48:54):
the way the system your brain is wired and and
this is this is not something that you can study for.
This is not something you could practice a bunch. We've
seen you know, we've seen the the It's interesting you
see these scores lead you hear the Bryce Young story.
And we did test Bryce in high school, right, he
was at the Quarterback Collective. We work with Richmond followers
and the Quarterback Collective guys. But this is not something
(49:16):
that you're like, Hey, Bryce took it as a high
schooler and he kept taking it at Alabama, so he's
going to score better. It is how you're wired. Bryce
literally scored the same as he did at at his
facility as he did when he was a junior in
high school. So the system isn't changing that much. I'll
say there is some brain maturation, right, I mean, your
brain is still developing until you're early twenties, so there's
(49:39):
a little bit of moving the needle. But this is
how you're wired. And for those that are interested in training,
because you can improve You're not going to improve your
score on our test. You can improve that specific cognitive
skill in the field. So you've got to do all
of your work on the field. We would never recommend
somebody go in and take these iPad apps and stay
on the iPad. Hey, I'm gonna improve your batting average
(49:59):
by thirty points if you do this iPad app. That's
not how it works. It won't transfer it on the field.
You actually have to do very so if it cognitively
focused drills on the field to improve performance. So you
can't hire someone from the Capitlan SATC service and have
them tutor you and just prep you for the test
like I did for the That is impossible. And every
every test we do you're required well, I would say
(50:22):
ninety percent of the test your responses are within half
a second. Yeah, So there's no like studying. There's no
like gaming it or practicing it. I mean, this is
the only way you can do is not give full
effort and you'll get hammered. That test prep wasted. Anyway,
I got a three ninety in math and I paid
a tutor and the whole thing, And yeah, that was that. Uh, Brandon,
(50:43):
you're the man. Where you guys located. We're based out
of Nashville, Tennessee. Nashville, Tennessee. That's really cool. You're a
young guy and you and your partner are building a
really cool business. And I could already feel and making
an impact in the NFL, and it feels like it's
a cool grassroots story that you guys built us yourselves. Congratulations, dude,
appreciate it, man, thanks for having me on. Really appreciate this,
no doubt. Guys. Brandon Ally, what's the company called if
(51:05):
people want to look it up, Brandon S two cognition
dot com. We've got a lot of social media stuff
where we try to post some educational content if you're
interested in in you know how you know how cognition
plays out on the sports field. Um, yeah, follow us
on social and listen to our podcasts and yep, love
(51:25):
it all right, dude, thank you so much for joining us,
and I'm sure we'll be hearing about the S two
cognitive tests in the next couple of weeks. Thanks brother,
I really appreciate it. You know, we could have had
on a GM maybe we will, or a draft prospect.
(51:46):
I'm finding them to get they're all like running together.
We do one good Morning Fall interview, like eight prospects
a day, and I can't even get them straight. They
all are just wonderful young men. But it's like, I
don't know if I need to hear from a nineteen
year old kid about training for the draft. Um, I
sounded pretty dismissive. Sorry, uh, but we were talking as
we get back, Like, Brandon ally is the type of
(52:06):
guest Aaron like I want to have on I'd never
heard of S two cognitive tests. Apparently it's been around
for a while and teams are using it to get
an edge on the other half of the league. I
find that interesting. Yeah, I want to know what those
other half of the league teams need to do to
get the S two tests, because it sounds like, you know,
if you're some of these people are getting my leg up.
(52:27):
I think it's a competitive advantage. Brandon was cool too,
young guy at a Nashville and anyone who's an entrepreneur
and could build their own company, I appreciate that stuff.
We're gonna end the pod with what we're gonna do
every week. I think we're gonna take reader tweets and respond,
I said, off Mike, and I'm not copying anybody, but like,
I love when Ryan Russillo does life advice. I love
when Bill Simmons and cousin sal do parent corner. This
(52:50):
isn't exactly reinventing the wheel. Let's read some tweets. What
do we got eron? Yes, so we did. We did
some tweets and some emails, and we got a couple questions,
some of my favorite ones here, what's your take on
the Amazon Thursday Nights stuff? Okay, So I wasn't at
the league meetings, usually I am, and I hear it
was like a pretty interesting room where it was presented
(53:12):
that the Amazon Thursday Night schedule would have the ability
to flex games at the end of this season. And
there is a big contingent that was for that, and
I believe from what it sounds like, the league was
more than willing to help push that over the finish line.
But then there was a strong contingent against it in
that it's not fair to the fans, like Week fourteen,
(53:35):
Week fifteen, Week sixteen, if you've bought your tickets for
US Sunday in December and then you're told the game
is actually Thursday Night at seven thirty. John Marrow was
the biggest voice of that, the owner of the Giants,
and to me, I'm always amazed that it could get
to that point that it gets to the room and
we're out a vote, and now John Mara's voicing like
his this pleasure for it. But that's what these league
(53:57):
meetings are. You have thirty one different people in that room.
Thirty two it's a representative from Green Bay, and they
have opinions, and it's an open forum. You know, David
Tepper is worth you know how many billion he's got,
and he owned Wall Street. He's got a voice in
that room. And so does you know Mike Brown who's
the owner of the Bengals, and it's a family run business,
(54:19):
and he's got a thought. Now, from what I'm told,
the argument for the pro side of it is not
the Amazon people, you know, lobbying like we're in DC
on the Hill or something. What it is is it's
Amazon paid a lot of money for a standalone package,
just like ESPN pays a lot of money for a
standalone package. Now, if you're CBS or Fox, you get
(54:41):
a slate of seven games every weekend. So you could
kind of say, all right, we had an expectation that
Packers Giants was going to be important, but the Packers
have three wins and the Giants have six wins this year.
In this instance, actually San Francisco, New Orleans, that's who
we're sending our crew to and we're gonna tell them
on Monday and they'll be there Sunday and we've got
that game. Amazon did not have that luxury last year,
(55:02):
and nor did ESPN. So ESPN had a late season
Packers Rams Monday Night game that I don't remember, but
I'm sure when they were given that game in May
before last season, Packers, Rams, McVeigh, Stafford, Rogers, all that stuff,
they expected to have the game of the year late season.
(55:22):
Well it wasn't. It was a dud. ESPN is part
of their deal. They get some flex games now at
the end of the season. It makes sense they had
no other choice. That was the only game they can get.
And as much as a scheduling quirk that might be,
it is fair for a media company, according to those
who are in favor of this thing, to have that luxury,
no matter who had the Thursday night game, whether it
(55:45):
was Apple or Google, or if you're not CBS and
you're not NBC and you're not Fox, you're getting dealt
what the league gives you. And you're straddled with this
thing despite paying the same money as the other guys.
So I understand it, and it's a better product, and
it helps everybody to have people watching foot ball. But
(56:07):
I also hear the other side of it. It's kind
of BS for the players, it's kind of BS for
the fans, and it's kind of BS for the season
ticket holders who have to base their lives around those games.
When the schedule comes out in May. Right now, it
sounds like they don't have enough votes, but they're a
couple short. In May, they're gonna vote on it again.
I'd be shocked if it doesn't pass. All right. Number two,
(56:29):
we already talk succession a little bit. What's another show
you watched while you were off? All right? So it
sounds like the guy who comes along in you know,
twenty twenty three, and it's like you never see Seinfeld.
It's pretty funny. I resisted ted Lasso for a long
time because I just, I don't know, It's like it
(56:50):
seemed very hokey dokey, and it seemed a little cringey
when I would see the ads. This show is an
awesome I've loved it. I am cursing up a storm.
We binged a shit out of Ted Lasso while we
were off, while I was off with Praternity Leave. I
love it. I love everything about it. I think it's
well written. I think it's got so much heart. I
think the soccer stuff is good. I think it's funny.
(57:11):
And I am so into Lasso that you know, this
is a show that's not a streamer that everyone just
being just like I am caught up to date. I've
been watching the first few episodes of season three and
I'm like up to date and I am ready. I
don't know what dy it drops. I honestly don't. I
just I get excited. I opened the Apple app and
it's there. I don't know, said Akas. I don't know
(57:32):
any of the show runners. I don't know Bill Lawrence.
I don't know guys. Hats off to them to have
an earnest, yet well written comedy that isn't in the
Michael Shore parks and rec mockumentary, abbot elementary mocumentary office
mockumentary format of everyone you know is looking at a
camera off screen, rolling their eyes, because that's just what
(57:54):
comedy has become. It's a real show that is like
old school. I feel like I'm watching Cheers every week.
I love it. I have no cynicism. I know you
said you don't watch Succession Aaron, have you done Ted Lasso?
I have. So. We were so into season one, loved it,
loved it, loved it, watched all season two as well.
(58:16):
Have not started season three yet. Um there were there
were elements of season two that didn't hook me the
same way one did. One was was just beautiful. I thought, Um,
I personally I didn't love when the assistant coach like
kind of turns evil. Yes, spoiler alert, I apologize, it's
actually a weird subplot. Still, yeah, it continues on to
(58:39):
season three, and I'm not gonna give anything away, but
I agree, like, I still don't. I still don't know
why he's so angry at Ted. Yeah, and um he there, Yeah,
there were elements of that. I also, uh, I know
that Beard is one of the writers, but I remember
last season like Beard episode, be Beard episode. I was like, ah,
(59:03):
if you're not, if you don't watch it. Basically, they
have this normal show and the plot advances, and then
on like episode nine, Coach Beard just has this long,
never ending night where he ends up in like glitter
pants and he's it's just like this deep, deep cut
of an assistant coach, a secondary character. I read after
the fact because I did not like that episode either.
People love it, Aaron, people love it. I think it's
(59:25):
like I look and apparently they had done eight episodes
in scripts and then they were like supposed to do
two more so on the back end they did that
and the Christmas episode and they kind of just dropped
them in. People love the Beard episode. Yeah, no, I know, yep,
it didn't hit for me. That's you know, it's okay. Yeah.
(59:47):
Season three is a new character in it who I'm
already digging. And there's some strange Aaron Rodgers parallels to
this character. I'll leave it as that. Did see Sadakis
at a Nick game. He was sitting courtside. I was not,
but he was with the cast of Ted Last So
and those guys look like they actually really get along
(01:00:08):
off camera too, which is pretty cool. Yeah. Another show
I've been watching that I'm not sure if you watch
is your friend Paul Rodd's Party Down. So explain, because
I've watched Party Down on Bravo years ago. Stars Yes,
Stars Love, Adam Scott Love, Martin Star Love, Lizzie Kaplan
what is? And then I kind of I missed this?
(01:00:29):
So Stars has and Paul Rudd was an executive producer
and a writer and all that. It's back or it's
a reunion show. What is it? A little bit of both?
They revived it reunion, it's it like takes place post
pandemic and it's I think six. They're like like Martin Star,
it's like a forty year old man. He's a forty
year old cater still. Yeah, so they're all I mean,
(01:00:51):
the premise of the show is people in LA who
are in some creative field, typically who their side job
is a catering business. The beauty of the setup of
the show is that it takes place at a new
event every week. So sometimes it's a dance or it
is a fundraiser or it's a big award ceremony, and
the caterers are always the same, but they're working these
(01:01:11):
different events. And this one is kind of like catching
up with everyone. Adam Scott is back with the catering company.
It is. I laughed so much watched Okay, so here's
my question. I remember vaguely watching episode here there whatever.
I wasn't like a party down. Can I jump in
on these? Yeah? There there will be There are new characters.
(01:01:33):
There are some jokes that are like paid off from long,
long time ago. But you don't need by any means. Yeah, okay,
I love this stuff. All right, what's your last one?
I'm sure? Yeah. And we had plenty of football related
ones that we answered earlier, but this one is really,
I think the most draft relevant question we received, which is,
(01:01:53):
what are your thoughts on the Super Mario movie? I
loved it? Can I tell you why I loved it?
Eighty two minutes? Holy? Was that enjoyable? Eighty two minutes?
It's in and out. As a fellow Brooklyn resident, you'll
appreciate it starts off in animated Brooklyn. And I don't
(01:02:14):
need to go through the entire plot of the Mario
Brothers movie with you, but I will tell you this.
It's eighty two minutes. It starts. You know, every character.
I don't know if you need to know the backstory
on the Mario saga, but they give you one. You know,
comes from a couple of parents that were, you know,
expecting more out a young Mario in Luigi, and yet
here they are saving the world. Loved it, My son
(01:02:36):
loved it. It made three hundred and seventy seven million
dollars worldwide in its first weekend. That's no surprise. And
I think the coolest thing is and this could be,
you know, a bad sign, but I think the Marvel thing.
And again I might be on like Reddit in bad ways,
but like the Marvel things seem to be petering out
a little bit. The DC thing keeps on having to
these upstarts. We haven't even started the Nintendo thing. And
(01:02:59):
you know, I think everyone was burned by the original
Mario movie, which is now becoming a cult classic. People
are going back me. I'm like Bob Hoskins in the
original Nintendo movie. He deserved an award. If this opens
the door to a Zelda movie, and this opens a
door to a Castlevania movie, if this opens the d
to a Metroid, to Ninja guiding, you name it, I'm
(01:03:21):
here for it. And in the previews, there was a
Ninja Turtles preview for a movie coming out in August.
That's a new Ninja Turtles movie. So I am just
hitting this awesome period with my son where he can
sit through a movie. But if you tell me it's
a three hour movie, or if there's dark, you know,
plot twist with death littered throughout it, I'm not in
on it. Mario, great movie. Enjoyed it? Jack Black singing
(01:03:45):
Peaches Market Market down right now? April eleventh, Peter Schreeger saying,
Jack Black will win an Oscar for Best Song at
the Oscars next year. I know how hungry the Academy
Awards are for stars and for any sort of relevance,
and I also think it deserves it. Jack Black singing
the song Peaches, It's King, It's it's Bowser's epic nod
(01:04:09):
to the princess and his love for her. All right,
putting you on the spot here, you don't have to
answer this if you don't want. Who would be your
dream directors for a Zelda, A Metroid, a Castlevania movie? Okay?
Dream directors? Do I have to say to Daniels um No,
I would say, uh, gosh, I would love a Pta
(01:04:30):
look at Zelda the Journey, um you know for for
for Zelda with with Paul Thomas Anderson would be great. Uh.
Metroid would have to be probably like you're going Ridley
Scott style, like you gotta go go that way? And
what was the last one Castlevania Sylvania? Yeah? Any of them? Yeah?
I mean obviously you can go with with Jordan Peel
(01:04:53):
for Castlevania, or you can go with Eli roth Um.
I gotta think I know he says he's retiring after
this next one, but I gotta think a Tarantino spin
on Paperboy would be a fantastic, fantastic film. I had
a group text with some friends. We actually were debating
this the other day, and my submission was a Wes
(01:05:15):
Anderson fantastic mister Fox style Yoshi's story, all cutouts and everything,
but awesome. That's the podcast. Aaron Won Kaufman, you are
the man. Jason English, you are the best from iHeart obviously,
we love all our folks at the NFL with Meredith
Batten and Matt Schneider and Jason Kleman and us getting
(01:05:35):
this thing back off the ground and up and running again.
It would took a little hiatus. That's okay, we're back.
We're gonna get your draft stuff. To our guest Brendan Ally,
and to you the listeners, I'm Peter Schreeger and this
is the season. Joy. The Season with Peter Schreeger is
(01:05:58):
a production of the NFL and partnership with iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts from IHEARTRADIOVI is it the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
wherever you get your podcasts,
Host
Peter Schrager
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