November 4, 2020 • 32 mins
Struggles, double standards, and our experiences with gender identity can make us self-conscious & shut out. This episode is all about celebrating our strengths, and learning to stand up for ourselves.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello, everyone, What's up? Welcome back to The Secret Syllabus podcast.
The Secret Syllabus is a production of The Female Quotation
and I Heart Radio and co produced by The Female
Quotient and Wonder Media Network. I'm Katie Tracy and I'm
Hannah Ashton. This episode is all about sexism, how it
affects us in college, and how it may affect us
(00:23):
in the workplace. First, let's start with the word sexism.
What is it? Sexism is discrimination based on a person's
sex or gender. Sexism can affect anyone, but it has
primarily affected women and girls. It's been linked to stereotypes
and gender roles, the belief that one sucks or gender
(00:43):
may be superior to another, and the subsequent unequal treatment
one faces because of it. Hannah, have you had any
conversations about this at home? I wouldn't say very many conversations. Um,
I learned more about it when I was growing up,
and I can talk about that in a second. But
going back to at home, I mean, I think that
there wasn't maybe as progression as you see like in
(01:05):
the world today, but I was very happy with what
I was presented with when I was growing up. I
remember my grandma and my mom. They advocated that when
my brother received a baseball glove as a gift, that
I also received a baseball glove, and like they put
me in tea ball with him, and I ended up
loving that and so went on to, um, you know,
play softball throughout middle school and then But also like
(01:27):
I was also taught a lot about femininity and my
mom she was a career woman and she was a dancer,
and so I was also put in ballet and more
like feminine sports, you could say. So I feel like
I really got the best of both worlds where I
got to witness both my parents be entrepreneurs at some point,
be very career focused. And I was never really told like, oh,
you can't do this because you're a woman, or you're
(01:48):
gonna even face challenges because of your a woman. Um yeah,
I never really received that growing up. And maybe in
some ways, I think it's really good because it gave
me the confidence to do what I'm doing today. You know,
to start YouTube so young, to start a business in
high school, I was like, well why not. But also
maybe it didn't prepare me as much for a world
that we live in where there are challenges that women
(02:10):
face just being in a business industry. So I did
not have the conversations at home. Um, and I I'm
interested to see how that will kind of affect me.
But I'm also really happy with with how I was raised.
But I'd love to know about what your story is, Katie. Yeah,
I mean, I think it's amazing that you've never felt
like your gender was something that limited you, because honestly,
(02:31):
for me, yes, I think I've experienced sexism. Growing up
in a conservative family and a conservative country. I've faced
a lot of sexism before I even knew what the
word meant. It started and how I looked, you know,
being told not to wear shorts, low cut tops, anything
to revealing. I couldn't even wear nail polish. Uh. I
(02:51):
was strongly discouraged to go out late at night because
that's quote when men took advantage of women. And when
it came to my education, I actually faced a lot
of resistance in studying university abroad in a foreign country
which is now the USA for me. But because I'd
be alone and no one would look after me as
(03:11):
a woman, and that was a narrative, I knew that
woman needed to be taken care of. I do want
to say, though, that I understand these concerns from my family.
I know what they mean everything out of love, and
a lot of their advice is based on real experiences.
And it's sex to say, but it's true. You know.
I love that you shared that, because I just love
(03:34):
hearing other people's perspectives, and especially from a different country.
But I'd love to know that, how has your perspective changed,
or what conversations are you having now since you've come
to the States and started going to Cornell. So many
I've had so many great conversations in college. And when
I first got to Cornell, actually I immediately joined to
women's empowerment organizations, one for women in computing and another
(03:58):
for women in business and leadership. And it's because I
was so excited to be surrounded by ambitious women who
were so passionate and unashamed in what they did. And
this confidence I felt is something I didn't have when
I was in high school. So in college, I'm now
an information science major. I've always been interested in STEM.
But when I was in high school and I took
(04:20):
my first computer science class, I was actually only one
of three girls in that class, and I remember being
really intimidated. I felt out of place. I was actually
embarrassed to admit that I liked STEM and computing fields
because I didn't see other people like it. I felt
like girls couldn't like these kinds of things. And so
there was a time when I really almost did not
(04:41):
pursue this because I felt that way. But you know,
thankfully my teacher encouraged me. I like I clung onto
those two other girls in that class, and I'm really
glad to make it to the other side now in
college because at Cornell specifically, our Engineering college has a
fifty fifty gender ratio split. I think that's huge, you know,
(05:02):
going from being like less than a third or going
from a third to now a half is such a
big improvement. And now in college, I'm having so many
conversations about being a woman not only in under represented fields.
I love that. And I'm jealous of your classes, the
women in business and leadership. I would love to take that,
(05:23):
And thinking about classes at Belma, and I'm not sure
if we have one like business classes specific for women,
but I love your points, and so in with my
experience in college, I've taken a few like liberal arts classes,
English classes that have just talked about you know, discrimination,
inequality in minorities as well as with women. Um but
(05:43):
I find that I've learned the most uh and learned
about gender roles and you know, how it affects society
through social media and just growing up on YouTube and Instagram.
I was introduced to this when I was in middle school,
and since I didn't have those conversations at home, it
was all brand new to me. I was, uh yeah,
just figuring out like, oh, maybe this has affected me
(06:05):
in some way, or you know, this is what other
people face, and it was all really really interesting. Um
but I'd love to know about u, Katie. Is sexism
something you worry about now or in the future. Very
hopeful for the future, especially as an international student, I
found America to be very empowering. I see groups of
people who have been traditionally silent, stripped of opportunities, bamed
(06:29):
together to uproot these systems. It's a really refreshing reminder
of how much power individuals have and how much more
we can have if we achieve it together. And I
really hope to take that with me in whatever community
I'm in. What about you that's so inspiring. Um, honestly,
I'm going to say yes, just because I've been hearing
(06:49):
so much about it, and we're going to talk about
the male dominated business industry with Cindy today, which I
am going into and you know, as I learned more
about it, I it does worry me a bit, like, oh,
I haven't faced uh sexism yet that I know of,
Like what how will I react when I do or
if I do? And you know, how can I start
(07:09):
building skills and traits now to build up my confidence
as a twenty one year old so that when I
do hopefully get in these big boardrooms later in life,
that I can feel confident in myself and my ideas then. So,
you know, it can be kind of nerve wracking when
there's so much about it going on in the media
and just in conversations, But like you, I'm also hopeful
(07:29):
that because we're having these conversations now, we will feel
equipped later. Yeah. Girl, I think your attitude is amazing
and you've got all of us supporting you and definitely me. Yeah,
but do tell us about our guests today? Yes, So
we have the honor to talk to Cindy eckert A
self made serial entrepreneur and vocal advocate for women. Cindy
(07:50):
is known for building and selling to pharmaceutical companies, notably
Sprout Pharmaceuticals, creator of female viagra. She talks to us
about wearing pink to make a statement and board meeting,
creating her own space in a male dominated industry, and
how mentorship is so important. Honestly, guys, grab a pen
and paper, because so much wisdom is coming your way.
(08:10):
Let's go, Hi, Sin do you We are thrilled to
have you on the show. We know you are a
champion for uplifting women through entrepreneurship and making sure they
get a seat at the table. So to start, we
would love to ask how you got started with Sprout
Pharmaceuticals and why you decided to create a drug at
that centers around women's and not men's pleasure. Thank you
(08:32):
for having me, Hannah and Katie. So I'll tell you
why because I built a company with one of the
male sexual health drugs and guess how many there were?
Twenty six. We had twenty six FDA approved drugs for
some form of male sexual dysfunction and not a single
one for women. And I was standing there in two
(08:54):
thousand and ten, going what the hell is wrong with
this equation, because you don't have have to be a
rocket scientist to figure out something doesn't match there, because
just as many women obviously have issues in the bedroom
as men do, and yet because of the societal narrative
insects particularly, but my gosh, in healthcare period, when things
(09:16):
go wrong for men, we go, oh, biology, and we
go to work on fixing it, as witnessed by twenty
six options. Right when things go wrong for women, we say, oh, psychology,
and we pat them on the shoulder and we tell
them to take a bubble bath. And that is so
dismissive at its core. Biology walks into the bedroom with
(09:38):
us and is omnipresident in our healthcare and we need
to take it equally seriously. You're known for wearing pink
and embracing it, and so Katie and I actually put
on our pink clothes today for you. What does the
color pink mean to you? You know, I say, I'm
unapologetically pink. And here's what I mean by that. You know,
there are gender stereotypes, and we associate femininity and pink
(10:02):
often with weakness. I reject that. I actually see it
as a strength. And for me, when I started on
this mission with you know Addie, the quote female viagra,
um it's the little pink pill. And people would say, oh,
the little pink pill, like it was so cute. They
would pat me on the shoulder, pat me on the head,
(10:24):
and I thought, I'm gonna flip that script because for me,
you have two choices when people are making assumptions like that,
and maybe not even from a bad place, right, but
from what we a society have told about gender, I
think you have two choices. You're either going to lean
back in frustration or self doubt, or you go right
(10:47):
for it because that's the conversation you need to have,
which is why I show up and pink every day
because that's what I believe in and that's what we're
going to talk about. That's wonderful how you just reclaimed that,
and it made me think that, you know, even when
guys wear pink, we think it's progress, but there's always
a little side comment that's like, oh, you're in pink.
It's so true, it's so true. I will tell the story.
(11:08):
I you know, I've you can imagine like when I
was going out and trying to get investors for this.
Most of it are is a sea of like blue
and gray suits. Right, they're older guys. They were laughing
at me when I showed up to to raise money. Um.
And one of them who's like you know, when the
elder statesman, like the total blue suit, came into my
(11:28):
office last year, he sat down at my like board
table that has all pink chairs and he said, hey, Cindy,
and he lifted up his pant leg and he was
wearing pink socks and it was a little bit of
like a tip of the hat, like I get it.
Now there's power in this, and he now doesn't want
to be left out from the kind of opportunities I'm
(11:50):
looking at. That's progress. I'd love that so much. Can
you tell us more about what it was like? You know,
you being there in your pink blazer. I know you
talked in another of you about how you like walking
in Underestimated I do, listen, you know Here's why I
say that. Um, I'm sorry to tell all of the
(12:11):
ladies listening, you are going to be underestimated by all
of the numbers you get. Less funding, less promotions. You
guys know this, less in in you know, the pay
gap period. So there is an inherent under underestimation. And
I think that, you know, when I first started showing
up in the rooms, it was hard to not go
(12:32):
back out of that room and be piste for lack
of a better word, like and and anger isn't going
to propel me forward, right, It's gonna have me sit
and stew. So I flipped it in my mind and
I decided, I'm going to gamify this. This is gonna
be fun. They're gonna underestimate me. I'm going to just
go ahead and know that. And that I lost all
(12:54):
of its power as soon as I knew it was
going to happen, and for me, it became an invitation
to surprise people. What are some other challenges you faced
as a woman in a male dominated industry and how
have you navigated and adapted? Where do I begin? Um?
So you know, my my challenges are I think always
(13:17):
that you know, underestimated in the room, a little bit
of like looking like why is why is this woman
in pink in here? Um? You know, getting actual capital
to start my businesses? You know those were all, um,
real challenges and real roadblocks to my ultimate success. But
and it's a little bit blanket, um, Hannah. But I
think what happened for me is I got a really
(13:39):
good sense of humor. And here's what I'll say to everybody.
Humor has an ability to allow people to change their
mind and still save face. I don't imagine that. You know,
when I showed up in rooms, I knew by the numbers,
I wasn't the likely um winner of the cat, of
(14:00):
the job, of the whatever it may be. But when
I could, when I could have fun with it, as
when when ridiculous comments were made, if I could say,
oh my gosh, what is this the nineteen fifties, it
gave them a beat to realize how much they had
overstepped and recover. And I wasn't thinking they're a bad person.
(14:23):
I was thinking that they have a script in their
mind that has embedded there by our societal narratives. And
so I would just say to everybody listening, Um, you know,
does this sound like we want to say, like, don't
accept it? You know, fight back? Um, it's true, But
fighting back with room for people to change, that's really
(14:44):
the best tact, and it makes the space for all
of us. Ultimately, it's the same story as the guy
coming in my room with his pink socks. Right, he
totally totally laughed at me at the beginning. But imagine
if I had been stuck with that frustration and never
ever taken his call again. Now he invests in other women.
(15:04):
I've changed something really important there that's powerful. And later
we'll go into empathy, which I'm really excited talk to
you about. But for now, you mentioned the numbers. In
only two percent of total venture capital funding went to
female founders. I remember when I first heard this, my
friend told me that if I ever wanted to start
a company, I should find a male co founder. At first,
(15:28):
I thought that that she was like, she was giving
me practical advice, you know, this is how the world works.
But the more I thought about it, the more unsettled
I became, because why does it take having a male
counterpart to prove your legitimacy? So if you were there,
what would you have told me? Oh my gosh. So um.
It's first of all, I have to say, how do
we think that half of the population has two percent
(15:48):
of the good? Ideas ridiculous? Right, So very smart business
move to bed on the underdog, by the way, because
no one else is watching. And actually, by all the data,
women outperformed men. We have better outcomes ultimately in our companies.
And that is like data source after data source after
data source. What I would say to you is that's
(16:10):
b us advice. Absolutely not. But you're gonna be you
are going to be hunting a different investor. That's what
I would tell you. So you know what um what
feels like the curses often the blessing. And for me,
it's true traditional venture capital money, you know, the like
the traditional Silicon valley kind of money that we all
(16:32):
talk about, is less likely to come to women. So
find angel investors, because you know what, they're in every
single city. I raised a hundred million dollars from high
net worth individuals. I never got a dime from a
venture capitalist, so I'm included in that in that stat
But you know what, when that path wasn't available to me,
(16:53):
I found a different path and it was lucky because
actually angel investors are often you know, investing in things
they have a real personal passion for. If I'm in
a VC firm, They're going to play the odds. They
know how many startups fail. I'm not seeing. They're not
exceptionally smart. But like the deep personal investment is different
(17:14):
with an angel investor, and it is as easy as
literally googling it in your city, because there's an angel
investor group basically in every major metro in UM, in
the country in the US, UM, and so you can
find those angels again in the room with them, almost
easier than the vcs. Well, that's amazing and I'm thankful
I was able to bootstrap my planner business for women
(17:37):
maybe starting a company that's a smaller scale where they
don't need, you know, thirty two million dollars in financing.
Do you recommend them pitching themselves for grants or are
there other opportunities they can find? Um, I know, crowdsourcing
as big as well. Yeah, I love it. So I
actually think that, um, you know, crowdsourcing is sort of
the great equalizer for that same reason as angels, you're
(17:59):
really finding people that connect with what you're doing, and
I think you get a different level of commitment and
investment from them. That passion pays off, especially because they're
often strategically helpful in connecting you to other people if
they've been in that space or anything else. UM. But no,
I love that you. I call it still let us
strapping it. Um, So I I still let us strapped
(18:21):
it at the beginning to I used to cry in
the corner when the credit card companies were calling because
I had maxed out my credit cards. I don't recommend UM,
but but I do think there's something about that, right.
You've got to demonstrate that you're willing to take a
risk too before people open up their checkbooks to you. Um,
You've got to show that you've sacrificed or you're willing
(18:44):
to work for free for a period of time. All
of those things matter. But I love the idea of
you know, grants even loans, despite the fact that the
data is also not so great on women getting loans
versus men. I think that's changing. And if you go
to like SBA dot gov the Small Business Administration, you know,
(19:05):
they do pitch competitions around the country for women. Those
are great sources for early capital. Enter the contest. Go
to these like Angel Group pitch nights and win the
prizes and use that to fund your business at the outset.
So I'm really grateful that we're on this car right
now because it feels like you're mentoring us. And I
know that you said you didn't have any female mentors.
(19:27):
Why is that so important? Uh? You know what, there's
just a different conversation we can have with each other,
isn't there? There really is. And when I looked, you know,
up as I was growing my career, and there was
nobody who looked like me above me to sponsor me,
to mentor me. Now what it did the gift of
that is it forced me to look to my left
and my right. And I will say to everybody, your
(19:50):
mentors are all around you. Everyone can teach you something
if you're open minded about it and you're really constantly
asking for help. Sometimes we've forget you just need to ask.
You'd be surprised how willing people will be to help.
But I really, at least in terms of my work
today and the p incubator, you know, I want to
(20:10):
have really frank conversations with you know, incredible rising stars
like you two, um, where I can help you scale
your business and sometimes listen, the ideas aren't great, Like
all of our conversations aren't rainbows and unicorns. Um, some
of them are really very blunt that that somebody comes
(20:31):
in they're great, their idea isn't great, but that kind
of um candor is equally important, and I think it's
better delivered woman to woman. Guys right now, I will
tell you a little bit, are scared of being direct,
like they want the good guys like want to be helpful, right,
they actually want to help you succeed, so they may
(20:51):
cheer you on longer than they should because they're not
shooting it straight. And so it's why I think it's
so important for female to male mentor show. This is
interesting though, because just like you, I had two older
I have two older brothers, and I learned a lot
from them because they're both very business and entrepreneurial minded.
But can you talk about your experience growing up with
(21:13):
two male mentors? So, like, one thing I'm curious about
is were there any times you perhaps disagreed with their
male influence views and challenge them? Oh, I think I've
changed their mind on a lot of things. Because but
I will say, first and foremost, here's what I love
about my big brothers. So everybody everybody says like, oh,
(21:33):
you have two big brothers, they must have been so protective.
I'm like, hey, they missed that memo because they basically
thought that their job was to toughen me up for
the world. And I'm so grateful they did, because they
really did. UM never allow like any sort of sweet,
um save me, help me kind of mentality from me. Look,
(21:57):
I think sometimes their views, like all guys in the
locker room, like they can say the most ridiculous thing,
and I just always went after them for that, like
are you joking? Like what if that was me? And
I you know, they're They're wonderful. They've been such huge
influences in my life, and I think I could quickly
(22:19):
kind of change their mind on that. But yeah, I
think they And now one of them has two girls, Um,
so I have, Um, I have two nieces, and it's
been fun to watch, you know, how he sees the
world that he wants for them to. So for the
men listening, how can men on an individual level work
to uplift women, whether in the workplace or outside of it. Yeah,
(22:40):
it's not listen, it's at our core. I would like
to think that all of us believe, may the best
effort win whoever is making that best effort. And I
think that right now, you know, in all of the
headlines and press like we feel like there's really sort
(23:00):
of a war um, you know, who gets the job
who doesn't, And we can't see it that way, like
if you the only people threatened by equality are people
who don't believe they could win without advantage. And so
what I would say to you is what does it
say about you if you're threatened by that? And I
(23:21):
think there's great guys listening. I have two nephews who
I'm so proud of and are so like they can't
even believe some of my stories from like the early
days of when I was in career. They couldn't believe
that anybody was such a caveman um then, so I
think the way is be vocal in support of the
best effort and ask yourself, if you ever feel threatened
(23:45):
by it, what does that say about you that you
wouldn't want an even playing field? That's great, and I
think it goes, you know, into race as well, not
just with gender. So you've met with a lot of
women in business, and Katie and I have been running
our YouTube channels for years with business collaborations, and I
also run an e commerce store. But I know a
lot of women are afraid to start a business because
(24:07):
they don't believe they are qualified. What advice do you
have for those women? Okay, Um, I say it all
the time, but I'm gonna say it here. Success does
not come from having all the answers. Success comes from
having the courage. I didn't know what I was doing
when I started my first business, Are you kidding? I
(24:28):
mean I knew what I wanted to do. I could.
I had looked at it in a very big way,
like what could I possibly accomplished? And then I built
a roadmap? Did I know how to do every piece
of that? Did I know the legal documents? Did I
know how to get a manufacturer? No? But here's what
I knew. I was capable. I was capable and and
(24:51):
unabashedly um bold and asking for help. And if you
really have that, if you have no worry about asking
other people to help you, you can figure it out.
What I'm so thankful for right now growing up, um
and being in colleges that I have so many people
to look up to, like yourself and all the women
(25:12):
that are now being featured on Forbes, and you know
that our billionaires in business, and I always say, you know,
we have so many resources available to us now like
I google everything that I have a question about UM
and it's amazing to have that inspiration. It's and it's
so great. I will say even now, if you know
there's a silver lining, it's a pink lining in my world.
(25:33):
If there's a pink lining of of COVID, it's that
we are all so connected UM. So you know online
as well, and you would be surprised for everybody listening
d M. Somebody who you look up to ask them something,
do not ask them I want to I just posted
telling you of this. Do not say like, hey, I
want to pick your brain. That will not get a response.
(25:55):
If you say, you know, Hannah, I am starting a business.
I would like to know how to incorporate it. Can
you tell me? Are there any resources online? Or how
you did it? People will answer you. You can get
to That's the beautiful thing, right is how connected we
Right now you can get to people who you never
would have been able to get to before. I loved
(26:16):
that post. That was great advice. And for all our listeners.
You mentioned that your d ms were open. I am.
I mean, listen, I've hired people from it. I've hired
people out of my d m might give advice. You know,
all the time I'm reading all of those um so
I you know, I just would ask, like, if you're coming,
you've got to come with a specific ask or I
(26:37):
can't quickly help you because it's you know, there's not
enough time in the day to just sit down as
much as I'd love to with every single person, but
like a really specific ask, I'll help amazing. So there's
double standard placed upon women in different workplace settings. For example,
you shouldn't wear too much makeup, or you should wear
makeup or two high upiels or too flashy, but shouldn't
(27:00):
be dressed too casual either. What what is your advice
for women like you who want to embrace the pink
but are afraid to um never be anybody but yourself
or you will be unhappy. And what I would tell
you is if you are in an environment that doesn't
allow you to show up as you leave, and I
know that feels hard to do at times when you're
(27:23):
in there, But the beauty is you. Guys, have you know,
an extraordinary opportunity and future ahead. Find the place where
you are celebrated for you. It was one of my
early lessons. You know, my first job out of college,
I worked for big corporate and it's exactly as you describe,
like there were, you know, this idea of a uniform
(27:44):
in terms of how you showed up, and there was
their way of doing things. And what struck me is
the most successful businesses I actually do not try to homogenize.
They do not try to make it a see of sameness.
They allow everyone's individuality to help them rise. And so
(28:04):
that is part of what you're looking for when you
guys are looking for your path and your job, look
for places where whatever the hell is you and you like,
no makeup, lots of makeup, lashes, no, whatever it is,
find that place. And lastly, do you have any last
advice for college students on how we can contribute to
working towards equality even if we aren't in the workplace yet.
(28:28):
I think, never underestimate the power of your own voice.
Really actually, um oh, there's such a good quote, and
I'm going to get it wrong. It's in essence it
is um you know, sort of the riskiest thing of
all is to um stand up for something against the
grain and do it out loud. I mean, it's one
(28:51):
thing to believe it and to sit there and and
feel that, but actually to really be true leaders and
and stand on those things with convict action that you
believe in. That's all we can ask for anybody. But
don't underestimate the contribution that that really makes and the
others who are watching your example who also will do
the same. There's an extraordinary ripple effect in UH and
(29:14):
being um showing true conviction and leadership. Cindy, thank you
so much for joining us on the Secret Syllabus. It
has been an honor to interview you and learn more
about your mission to put woman on top. To all
our listeners. You can follow Cindy at Cindy Pink's EO
and if you are a female entrepreneur you have to
check out the Pink Ceiling after this. We'll have it
(29:36):
in the show notes as well. Thank you, Cindy, thanks
for having me. Thank you, Hannah. I am speechless right now.
What did your takeaway? Can I just say the whole episode?
I seriously love Cindy so much and it spoke to
me so much that I've actually been writing a semester
long essay about the lack of female funding in America.
(29:59):
How would affect minorities especially, and then what steps we
could do to change this for the future. And needless
to say, this episode really spoke to me as I
am an entrepreneur now and aspiring to grow as an
entrepreneur and the fact that female founded businesses get two
percent of venture capital is scary, And like I said,
it ignited me to write a whole essay about this,
(30:21):
and I loved using this interview as a source for it.
Mm hmmm. And I'd love how she said to that
your destination can take many different ways, you know, so
even if you can't get that funding, you can try
angel investors. You can try many different ways to get
to where you want to. But my favorite part was
when Cindy talked about humor and its twofold power in
(30:43):
number one, being able to diffuse any insult with grace
and number two challenging the person who just made the
insult and giving them pause to reflect on the implications
of what they just said. I'm not gonna lie, though
this does presuppose that you have humor, and the funny
definitely comes more naturally to some people than others. That said,
(31:05):
I've always believed that being able to laugh at yourself
and bounce off hate is such a great life skill
and I had to learn it early by being on
YouTube since I was thirteen. And I'm sure you can
relate to Hannah No, I totally agree. I think that
was great advice, but like you, i'd be kind of
nervous delivering a joke that was also so savage. But
I really, like I said, took so much away, and
(31:27):
Cindy was so nice to both of us throughout the
episode before and after. Yes, Cindy is such an older sister,
and I think that was a great way to end
this week's episode. We are your host, Katie. You can
find me at Aloha Katie x on Instagram. And I'm Hannah.
You can find me at Miss Hannah Ashton on Instagram.
(31:47):
The Secret Syllabus is a production of The Female Quotient
and I Heart Radio and co produced by the Female
Quotient and Wonder Media Network. The Secret Syllabus is a
production of The Female Quotation and I Heart Radio and
co produced by the Female Quotient and Wonder Media Network.
See you after Class, Bye guys. H m HM
Hello, everyone, What's up? Welcome back to The Secret Syllabus podcast.
The Secret Syllabus is a production of The Female Quotation
and I Heart Radio and co produced by The Female
Quotient and Wonder Media Network. I'm Katie Tracy and I'm
Hannah Ashton. This episode is all about sexism, how it
affects us in college, and how it may affect us
(00:23):
in the workplace. First, let's start with the word sexism.
What is it? Sexism is discrimination based on a person's
sex or gender. Sexism can affect anyone, but it has
primarily affected women and girls. It's been linked to stereotypes
and gender roles, the belief that one sucks or gender
(00:43):
may be superior to another, and the subsequent unequal treatment
one faces because of it. Hannah, have you had any
conversations about this at home? I wouldn't say very many conversations. Um,
I learned more about it when I was growing up,
and I can talk about that in a second. But
going back to at home, I mean, I think that
there wasn't maybe as progression as you see like in
(01:05):
the world today, but I was very happy with what
I was presented with when I was growing up. I
remember my grandma and my mom. They advocated that when
my brother received a baseball glove as a gift, that
I also received a baseball glove, and like they put
me in tea ball with him, and I ended up
loving that and so went on to, um, you know,
play softball throughout middle school and then But also like
(01:27):
I was also taught a lot about femininity and my
mom she was a career woman and she was a dancer,
and so I was also put in ballet and more
like feminine sports, you could say. So I feel like
I really got the best of both worlds where I
got to witness both my parents be entrepreneurs at some point,
be very career focused. And I was never really told like, oh,
you can't do this because you're a woman, or you're
(01:48):
gonna even face challenges because of your a woman. Um yeah,
I never really received that growing up. And maybe in
some ways, I think it's really good because it gave
me the confidence to do what I'm doing today. You know,
to start YouTube so young, to start a business in
high school, I was like, well why not. But also
maybe it didn't prepare me as much for a world
that we live in where there are challenges that women
(02:10):
face just being in a business industry. So I did
not have the conversations at home. Um, and I I'm
interested to see how that will kind of affect me.
But I'm also really happy with with how I was raised.
But I'd love to know about what your story is, Katie. Yeah,
I mean, I think it's amazing that you've never felt
like your gender was something that limited you, because honestly,
(02:31):
for me, yes, I think I've experienced sexism. Growing up
in a conservative family and a conservative country. I've faced
a lot of sexism before I even knew what the
word meant. It started and how I looked, you know,
being told not to wear shorts, low cut tops, anything
to revealing. I couldn't even wear nail polish. Uh. I
(02:51):
was strongly discouraged to go out late at night because
that's quote when men took advantage of women. And when
it came to my education, I actually faced a lot
of resistance in studying university abroad in a foreign country
which is now the USA for me. But because I'd
be alone and no one would look after me as
(03:11):
a woman, and that was a narrative, I knew that
woman needed to be taken care of. I do want
to say, though, that I understand these concerns from my family.
I know what they mean everything out of love, and
a lot of their advice is based on real experiences.
And it's sex to say, but it's true. You know.
I love that you shared that, because I just love
(03:34):
hearing other people's perspectives, and especially from a different country.
But I'd love to know that, how has your perspective changed,
or what conversations are you having now since you've come
to the States and started going to Cornell. So many
I've had so many great conversations in college. And when
I first got to Cornell, actually I immediately joined to
women's empowerment organizations, one for women in computing and another
(03:58):
for women in business and leadership. And it's because I
was so excited to be surrounded by ambitious women who
were so passionate and unashamed in what they did. And
this confidence I felt is something I didn't have when
I was in high school. So in college, I'm now
an information science major. I've always been interested in STEM.
But when I was in high school and I took
(04:20):
my first computer science class, I was actually only one
of three girls in that class, and I remember being
really intimidated. I felt out of place. I was actually
embarrassed to admit that I liked STEM and computing fields
because I didn't see other people like it. I felt
like girls couldn't like these kinds of things. And so
there was a time when I really almost did not
(04:41):
pursue this because I felt that way. But you know,
thankfully my teacher encouraged me. I like I clung onto
those two other girls in that class, and I'm really
glad to make it to the other side now in
college because at Cornell specifically, our Engineering college has a
fifty fifty gender ratio split. I think that's huge, you know,
(05:02):
going from being like less than a third or going
from a third to now a half is such a
big improvement. And now in college, I'm having so many
conversations about being a woman not only in under represented fields.
I love that. And I'm jealous of your classes, the
women in business and leadership. I would love to take that,
(05:23):
And thinking about classes at Belma, and I'm not sure
if we have one like business classes specific for women,
but I love your points, and so in with my
experience in college, I've taken a few like liberal arts classes,
English classes that have just talked about you know, discrimination,
inequality in minorities as well as with women. Um but
(05:43):
I find that I've learned the most uh and learned
about gender roles and you know, how it affects society
through social media and just growing up on YouTube and Instagram.
I was introduced to this when I was in middle school,
and since I didn't have those conversations at home, it
was all brand new to me. I was, uh yeah,
just figuring out like, oh, maybe this has affected me
(06:05):
in some way, or you know, this is what other
people face, and it was all really really interesting. Um
but I'd love to know about u, Katie. Is sexism
something you worry about now or in the future. Very
hopeful for the future, especially as an international student, I
found America to be very empowering. I see groups of
people who have been traditionally silent, stripped of opportunities, bamed
(06:29):
together to uproot these systems. It's a really refreshing reminder
of how much power individuals have and how much more
we can have if we achieve it together. And I
really hope to take that with me in whatever community
I'm in. What about you that's so inspiring. Um, honestly,
I'm going to say yes, just because I've been hearing
(06:49):
so much about it, and we're going to talk about
the male dominated business industry with Cindy today, which I
am going into and you know, as I learned more
about it, I it does worry me a bit, like, oh,
I haven't faced uh sexism yet that I know of,
Like what how will I react when I do or
if I do? And you know, how can I start
(07:09):
building skills and traits now to build up my confidence
as a twenty one year old so that when I
do hopefully get in these big boardrooms later in life,
that I can feel confident in myself and my ideas then. So,
you know, it can be kind of nerve wracking when
there's so much about it going on in the media
and just in conversations, But like you, I'm also hopeful
(07:29):
that because we're having these conversations now, we will feel
equipped later. Yeah. Girl, I think your attitude is amazing
and you've got all of us supporting you and definitely me. Yeah,
but do tell us about our guests today? Yes, So
we have the honor to talk to Cindy eckert A
self made serial entrepreneur and vocal advocate for women. Cindy
(07:50):
is known for building and selling to pharmaceutical companies, notably
Sprout Pharmaceuticals, creator of female viagra. She talks to us
about wearing pink to make a statement and board meeting,
creating her own space in a male dominated industry, and
how mentorship is so important. Honestly, guys, grab a pen
and paper, because so much wisdom is coming your way.
(08:10):
Let's go, Hi, Sin do you We are thrilled to
have you on the show. We know you are a
champion for uplifting women through entrepreneurship and making sure they
get a seat at the table. So to start, we
would love to ask how you got started with Sprout
Pharmaceuticals and why you decided to create a drug at
that centers around women's and not men's pleasure. Thank you
(08:32):
for having me, Hannah and Katie. So I'll tell you
why because I built a company with one of the
male sexual health drugs and guess how many there were?
Twenty six. We had twenty six FDA approved drugs for
some form of male sexual dysfunction and not a single
one for women. And I was standing there in two
(08:54):
thousand and ten, going what the hell is wrong with
this equation, because you don't have have to be a
rocket scientist to figure out something doesn't match there, because
just as many women obviously have issues in the bedroom
as men do, and yet because of the societal narrative
insects particularly, but my gosh, in healthcare period, when things
(09:16):
go wrong for men, we go, oh, biology, and we
go to work on fixing it, as witnessed by twenty
six options. Right when things go wrong for women, we say, oh, psychology,
and we pat them on the shoulder and we tell
them to take a bubble bath. And that is so
dismissive at its core. Biology walks into the bedroom with
(09:38):
us and is omnipresident in our healthcare and we need
to take it equally seriously. You're known for wearing pink
and embracing it, and so Katie and I actually put
on our pink clothes today for you. What does the
color pink mean to you? You know, I say, I'm
unapologetically pink. And here's what I mean by that. You know,
there are gender stereotypes, and we associate femininity and pink
(10:02):
often with weakness. I reject that. I actually see it
as a strength. And for me, when I started on
this mission with you know Addie, the quote female viagra,
um it's the little pink pill. And people would say, oh,
the little pink pill, like it was so cute. They
would pat me on the shoulder, pat me on the head,
(10:24):
and I thought, I'm gonna flip that script because for me,
you have two choices when people are making assumptions like that,
and maybe not even from a bad place, right, but
from what we a society have told about gender, I
think you have two choices. You're either going to lean
back in frustration or self doubt, or you go right
(10:47):
for it because that's the conversation you need to have,
which is why I show up and pink every day
because that's what I believe in and that's what we're
going to talk about. That's wonderful how you just reclaimed that,
and it made me think that, you know, even when
guys wear pink, we think it's progress, but there's always
a little side comment that's like, oh, you're in pink.
It's so true, it's so true. I will tell the story.
(11:08):
I you know, I've you can imagine like when I
was going out and trying to get investors for this.
Most of it are is a sea of like blue
and gray suits. Right, they're older guys. They were laughing
at me when I showed up to to raise money. Um.
And one of them who's like you know, when the
elder statesman, like the total blue suit, came into my
(11:28):
office last year, he sat down at my like board
table that has all pink chairs and he said, hey, Cindy,
and he lifted up his pant leg and he was
wearing pink socks and it was a little bit of
like a tip of the hat, like I get it.
Now there's power in this, and he now doesn't want
to be left out from the kind of opportunities I'm
(11:50):
looking at. That's progress. I'd love that so much. Can
you tell us more about what it was like? You know,
you being there in your pink blazer. I know you
talked in another of you about how you like walking
in Underestimated I do, listen, you know Here's why I
say that. Um, I'm sorry to tell all of the
(12:11):
ladies listening, you are going to be underestimated by all
of the numbers you get. Less funding, less promotions. You
guys know this, less in in you know, the pay
gap period. So there is an inherent under underestimation. And
I think that, you know, when I first started showing
up in the rooms, it was hard to not go
(12:32):
back out of that room and be piste for lack
of a better word, like and and anger isn't going
to propel me forward, right, It's gonna have me sit
and stew. So I flipped it in my mind and
I decided, I'm going to gamify this. This is gonna
be fun. They're gonna underestimate me. I'm going to just
go ahead and know that. And that I lost all
(12:54):
of its power as soon as I knew it was
going to happen, and for me, it became an invitation
to surprise people. What are some other challenges you faced
as a woman in a male dominated industry and how
have you navigated and adapted? Where do I begin? Um?
So you know, my my challenges are I think always
(13:17):
that you know, underestimated in the room, a little bit
of like looking like why is why is this woman
in pink in here? Um? You know, getting actual capital
to start my businesses? You know those were all, um,
real challenges and real roadblocks to my ultimate success. But
and it's a little bit blanket, um, Hannah. But I
think what happened for me is I got a really
(13:39):
good sense of humor. And here's what I'll say to everybody.
Humor has an ability to allow people to change their
mind and still save face. I don't imagine that. You know,
when I showed up in rooms, I knew by the numbers,
I wasn't the likely um winner of the cat, of
(14:00):
the job, of the whatever it may be. But when
I could, when I could have fun with it, as
when when ridiculous comments were made, if I could say,
oh my gosh, what is this the nineteen fifties, it
gave them a beat to realize how much they had
overstepped and recover. And I wasn't thinking they're a bad person.
(14:23):
I was thinking that they have a script in their
mind that has embedded there by our societal narratives. And
so I would just say to everybody listening, Um, you know,
does this sound like we want to say, like, don't
accept it? You know, fight back? Um, it's true, But
fighting back with room for people to change, that's really
(14:44):
the best tact, and it makes the space for all
of us. Ultimately, it's the same story as the guy
coming in my room with his pink socks. Right, he
totally totally laughed at me at the beginning. But imagine
if I had been stuck with that frustration and never
ever taken his call again. Now he invests in other women.
(15:04):
I've changed something really important there that's powerful. And later
we'll go into empathy, which I'm really excited talk to
you about. But for now, you mentioned the numbers. In
only two percent of total venture capital funding went to
female founders. I remember when I first heard this, my
friend told me that if I ever wanted to start
a company, I should find a male co founder. At first,
(15:28):
I thought that that she was like, she was giving
me practical advice, you know, this is how the world works.
But the more I thought about it, the more unsettled
I became, because why does it take having a male
counterpart to prove your legitimacy? So if you were there,
what would you have told me? Oh my gosh. So um.
It's first of all, I have to say, how do
we think that half of the population has two percent
(15:48):
of the good? Ideas ridiculous? Right, So very smart business
move to bed on the underdog, by the way, because
no one else is watching. And actually, by all the data,
women outperformed men. We have better outcomes ultimately in our companies.
And that is like data source after data source after
data source. What I would say to you is that's
(16:10):
b us advice. Absolutely not. But you're gonna be you
are going to be hunting a different investor. That's what
I would tell you. So you know what um what
feels like the curses often the blessing. And for me,
it's true traditional venture capital money, you know, the like
the traditional Silicon valley kind of money that we all
(16:32):
talk about, is less likely to come to women. So
find angel investors, because you know what, they're in every
single city. I raised a hundred million dollars from high
net worth individuals. I never got a dime from a
venture capitalist, so I'm included in that in that stat
But you know what, when that path wasn't available to me,
(16:53):
I found a different path and it was lucky because
actually angel investors are often you know, investing in things
they have a real personal passion for. If I'm in
a VC firm, They're going to play the odds. They
know how many startups fail. I'm not seeing. They're not
exceptionally smart. But like the deep personal investment is different
(17:14):
with an angel investor, and it is as easy as
literally googling it in your city, because there's an angel
investor group basically in every major metro in UM, in
the country in the US, UM, and so you can
find those angels again in the room with them, almost
easier than the vcs. Well, that's amazing and I'm thankful
I was able to bootstrap my planner business for women
(17:37):
maybe starting a company that's a smaller scale where they
don't need, you know, thirty two million dollars in financing.
Do you recommend them pitching themselves for grants or are
there other opportunities they can find? Um, I know, crowdsourcing
as big as well. Yeah, I love it. So I
actually think that, um, you know, crowdsourcing is sort of
the great equalizer for that same reason as angels, you're
(17:59):
really finding people that connect with what you're doing, and
I think you get a different level of commitment and
investment from them. That passion pays off, especially because they're
often strategically helpful in connecting you to other people if
they've been in that space or anything else. UM. But no,
I love that you. I call it still let us
strapping it. Um, So I I still let us strapped
(18:21):
it at the beginning to I used to cry in
the corner when the credit card companies were calling because
I had maxed out my credit cards. I don't recommend UM,
but but I do think there's something about that, right.
You've got to demonstrate that you're willing to take a
risk too before people open up their checkbooks to you. Um,
You've got to show that you've sacrificed or you're willing
(18:44):
to work for free for a period of time. All
of those things matter. But I love the idea of
you know, grants even loans, despite the fact that the
data is also not so great on women getting loans
versus men. I think that's changing. And if you go
to like SBA dot gov the Small Business Administration, you know,
(19:05):
they do pitch competitions around the country for women. Those
are great sources for early capital. Enter the contest. Go
to these like Angel Group pitch nights and win the
prizes and use that to fund your business at the outset.
So I'm really grateful that we're on this car right
now because it feels like you're mentoring us. And I
know that you said you didn't have any female mentors.
(19:27):
Why is that so important? Uh? You know what, there's
just a different conversation we can have with each other,
isn't there? There really is. And when I looked, you know,
up as I was growing my career, and there was
nobody who looked like me above me to sponsor me,
to mentor me. Now what it did the gift of
that is it forced me to look to my left
and my right. And I will say to everybody, your
(19:50):
mentors are all around you. Everyone can teach you something
if you're open minded about it and you're really constantly
asking for help. Sometimes we've forget you just need to ask.
You'd be surprised how willing people will be to help.
But I really, at least in terms of my work
today and the p incubator, you know, I want to
(20:10):
have really frank conversations with you know, incredible rising stars
like you two, um, where I can help you scale
your business and sometimes listen, the ideas aren't great, Like
all of our conversations aren't rainbows and unicorns. Um, some
of them are really very blunt that that somebody comes
(20:31):
in they're great, their idea isn't great, but that kind
of um candor is equally important, and I think it's
better delivered woman to woman. Guys right now, I will
tell you a little bit, are scared of being direct,
like they want the good guys like want to be helpful, right,
they actually want to help you succeed, so they may
(20:51):
cheer you on longer than they should because they're not
shooting it straight. And so it's why I think it's
so important for female to male mentor show. This is
interesting though, because just like you, I had two older
I have two older brothers, and I learned a lot
from them because they're both very business and entrepreneurial minded.
But can you talk about your experience growing up with
(21:13):
two male mentors? So, like, one thing I'm curious about
is were there any times you perhaps disagreed with their
male influence views and challenge them? Oh, I think I've
changed their mind on a lot of things. Because but
I will say, first and foremost, here's what I love
about my big brothers. So everybody everybody says like, oh,
(21:33):
you have two big brothers, they must have been so protective.
I'm like, hey, they missed that memo because they basically
thought that their job was to toughen me up for
the world. And I'm so grateful they did, because they
really did. UM never allow like any sort of sweet,
um save me, help me kind of mentality from me. Look,
(21:57):
I think sometimes their views, like all guys in the
locker room, like they can say the most ridiculous thing,
and I just always went after them for that, like
are you joking? Like what if that was me? And
I you know, they're They're wonderful. They've been such huge
influences in my life, and I think I could quickly
(22:19):
kind of change their mind on that. But yeah, I
think they And now one of them has two girls, Um,
so I have, Um, I have two nieces, and it's
been fun to watch, you know, how he sees the
world that he wants for them to. So for the
men listening, how can men on an individual level work
to uplift women, whether in the workplace or outside of it. Yeah,
(22:40):
it's not listen, it's at our core. I would like
to think that all of us believe, may the best
effort win whoever is making that best effort. And I
think that right now, you know, in all of the
headlines and press like we feel like there's really sort
(23:00):
of a war um, you know, who gets the job
who doesn't, And we can't see it that way, like
if you the only people threatened by equality are people
who don't believe they could win without advantage. And so
what I would say to you is what does it
say about you if you're threatened by that? And I
(23:21):
think there's great guys listening. I have two nephews who
I'm so proud of and are so like they can't
even believe some of my stories from like the early
days of when I was in career. They couldn't believe
that anybody was such a caveman um then, so I
think the way is be vocal in support of the
best effort and ask yourself, if you ever feel threatened
(23:45):
by it, what does that say about you that you
wouldn't want an even playing field? That's great, and I
think it goes, you know, into race as well, not
just with gender. So you've met with a lot of
women in business, and Katie and I have been running
our YouTube channels for years with business collaborations, and I
also run an e commerce store. But I know a
lot of women are afraid to start a business because
(24:07):
they don't believe they are qualified. What advice do you
have for those women? Okay, Um, I say it all
the time, but I'm gonna say it here. Success does
not come from having all the answers. Success comes from
having the courage. I didn't know what I was doing
when I started my first business, Are you kidding? I
(24:28):
mean I knew what I wanted to do. I could.
I had looked at it in a very big way,
like what could I possibly accomplished? And then I built
a roadmap? Did I know how to do every piece
of that? Did I know the legal documents? Did I
know how to get a manufacturer? No? But here's what
I knew. I was capable. I was capable and and
(24:51):
unabashedly um bold and asking for help. And if you
really have that, if you have no worry about asking
other people to help you, you can figure it out.
What I'm so thankful for right now growing up, um
and being in colleges that I have so many people
to look up to, like yourself and all the women
(25:12):
that are now being featured on Forbes, and you know
that our billionaires in business, and I always say, you know,
we have so many resources available to us now like
I google everything that I have a question about UM
and it's amazing to have that inspiration. It's and it's
so great. I will say even now, if you know
there's a silver lining, it's a pink lining in my world.
(25:33):
If there's a pink lining of of COVID, it's that
we are all so connected UM. So you know online
as well, and you would be surprised for everybody listening
d M. Somebody who you look up to ask them something,
do not ask them I want to I just posted
telling you of this. Do not say like, hey, I
want to pick your brain. That will not get a response.
(25:55):
If you say, you know, Hannah, I am starting a business.
I would like to know how to incorporate it. Can
you tell me? Are there any resources online? Or how
you did it? People will answer you. You can get
to That's the beautiful thing, right is how connected we
Right now you can get to people who you never
would have been able to get to before. I loved
(26:16):
that post. That was great advice. And for all our listeners.
You mentioned that your d ms were open. I am.
I mean, listen, I've hired people from it. I've hired
people out of my d m might give advice. You know,
all the time I'm reading all of those um so
I you know, I just would ask, like, if you're coming,
you've got to come with a specific ask or I
(26:37):
can't quickly help you because it's you know, there's not
enough time in the day to just sit down as
much as I'd love to with every single person, but
like a really specific ask, I'll help amazing. So there's
double standard placed upon women in different workplace settings. For example,
you shouldn't wear too much makeup, or you should wear
makeup or two high upiels or too flashy, but shouldn't
(27:00):
be dressed too casual either. What what is your advice
for women like you who want to embrace the pink
but are afraid to um never be anybody but yourself
or you will be unhappy. And what I would tell
you is if you are in an environment that doesn't
allow you to show up as you leave, and I
know that feels hard to do at times when you're
(27:23):
in there, But the beauty is you. Guys, have you know,
an extraordinary opportunity and future ahead. Find the place where
you are celebrated for you. It was one of my
early lessons. You know, my first job out of college,
I worked for big corporate and it's exactly as you describe,
like there were, you know, this idea of a uniform
(27:44):
in terms of how you showed up, and there was
their way of doing things. And what struck me is
the most successful businesses I actually do not try to homogenize.
They do not try to make it a see of sameness.
They allow everyone's individuality to help them rise. And so
(28:04):
that is part of what you're looking for when you
guys are looking for your path and your job, look
for places where whatever the hell is you and you like,
no makeup, lots of makeup, lashes, no, whatever it is,
find that place. And lastly, do you have any last
advice for college students on how we can contribute to
working towards equality even if we aren't in the workplace yet.
(28:28):
I think, never underestimate the power of your own voice.
Really actually, um oh, there's such a good quote, and
I'm going to get it wrong. It's in essence it
is um you know, sort of the riskiest thing of
all is to um stand up for something against the
grain and do it out loud. I mean, it's one
(28:51):
thing to believe it and to sit there and and
feel that, but actually to really be true leaders and
and stand on those things with convict action that you
believe in. That's all we can ask for anybody. But
don't underestimate the contribution that that really makes and the
others who are watching your example who also will do
the same. There's an extraordinary ripple effect in UH and
(29:14):
being um showing true conviction and leadership. Cindy, thank you
so much for joining us on the Secret Syllabus. It
has been an honor to interview you and learn more
about your mission to put woman on top. To all
our listeners. You can follow Cindy at Cindy Pink's EO
and if you are a female entrepreneur you have to
check out the Pink Ceiling after this. We'll have it
(29:36):
in the show notes as well. Thank you, Cindy, thanks
for having me. Thank you, Hannah. I am speechless right now.
What did your takeaway? Can I just say the whole episode?
I seriously love Cindy so much and it spoke to
me so much that I've actually been writing a semester
long essay about the lack of female funding in America.
(29:59):
How would affect minorities especially, and then what steps we
could do to change this for the future. And needless
to say, this episode really spoke to me as I
am an entrepreneur now and aspiring to grow as an
entrepreneur and the fact that female founded businesses get two
percent of venture capital is scary, And like I said,
it ignited me to write a whole essay about this,
(30:21):
and I loved using this interview as a source for it.
Mm hmmm. And I'd love how she said to that
your destination can take many different ways, you know, so
even if you can't get that funding, you can try
angel investors. You can try many different ways to get
to where you want to. But my favorite part was
when Cindy talked about humor and its twofold power in
(30:43):
number one, being able to diffuse any insult with grace
and number two challenging the person who just made the
insult and giving them pause to reflect on the implications
of what they just said. I'm not gonna lie, though
this does presuppose that you have humor, and the funny
definitely comes more naturally to some people than others. That said,
(31:05):
I've always believed that being able to laugh at yourself
and bounce off hate is such a great life skill
and I had to learn it early by being on
YouTube since I was thirteen. And I'm sure you can
relate to Hannah No, I totally agree. I think that
was great advice, but like you, i'd be kind of
nervous delivering a joke that was also so savage. But
I really, like I said, took so much away, and
(31:27):
Cindy was so nice to both of us throughout the
episode before and after. Yes, Cindy is such an older sister,
and I think that was a great way to end
this week's episode. We are your host, Katie. You can
find me at Aloha Katie x on Instagram. And I'm Hannah.
You can find me at Miss Hannah Ashton on Instagram.
(31:47):
The Secret Syllabus is a production of The Female Quotient
and I Heart Radio and co produced by the Female
Quotient and Wonder Media Network. The Secret Syllabus is a
production of The Female Quotation and I Heart Radio and
co produced by the Female Quotient and Wonder Media Network.
See you after Class, Bye guys. H m HM
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