September 16, 2020 • 34 mins
So...a global pandemic is happening. Students are facing massive challenges, from transitioning to online classes to making friends virtually to staying motivated. Can our college experience be saved in a post-COVID world? What does it mean for our careers? This episode digs into the tips & tricks of how to cope during a crisis that has derailed our lives—both personally and academically.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome back to The Secret Syllabus podcast. The Secret Syllabus
is a production of The Female Quotient and I Heart Radio.
I'm Hannah and I'm Katie and for today's episode, we're
going to talk about COVID, the global pandemic that has
altered all of our lives. COVID has changed everything from
work to college to family life in every way possible.
(00:26):
I am in the Philippines right now, and it's my
one hundred fiftieth day in quarantine. I have not left
since March when I returned from college. Wow. And I
did move back in with my parents in March when
they sent us home, but now I just moved into
an apartment near my campus. But we know this pandemic
has shattered so many expectations and opportunities. Agreed. I never
(00:49):
thought I would be doing online school, which is what
I'm doing right now with remote learning in a country
that's twelve hours ahead from the time zhone I'm normally
in and my sched it has changed dramatically. Instead of
you know, being in the morning and afternoon, it's either
early morning or really late at night for me. Uh,
with my afternoon's completely free. It's something I'm definitely getting
(01:12):
used to I'm so impressed with how you're handling that
I just think, props to you. But that's why this
episode is all about COVID nineteen and our future. But
before we introduce our guests, we want to introduce to
you guys are on Campus Correspondent, our college correspondent will
be joining us for some episodes to get an inside
look into what is happening on a college campus right now.
(01:35):
Christian is a YouTuber and first year student at Harvard
University this year, and we are so excited to talk
and just check in with her because she's doing the
whole movement thing, the whole orientation. She's living in a dorm,
and I imagine it's gonna look a lot different. Hi,
Welcome Christian. We are so excited to have you be
(01:56):
our on campus correspondent. Can you tell us a little
bit more about yourself? Where do you go to school
and what year are you? My name is Christian, I
am a first year at Harvard, And a little bit
about me. I'm super obsessed with theater, acapella, all things
like creative making YouTube videos, and I kind of don't
(02:16):
know what I'm going to study. Yet but something along
those lines and maybe like a social science thrown in.
But yeah, I don't know about me. That sounds super
fun and I think you'll love the acapella scene in college.
What made you choose to go to campus instead of
taking a gap year? When the news came out about
what our fal semester would look like in regards like
virtual learning and not having like a traditional college experience,
(02:40):
I initially had the desire to stay home and not
go on campus because I didn't know if the value
would be the same. But the more that I talked
to professors and other students, I learned that this situation
isn't normal and we kind of just have to make
the best of it. And now I'm here. Yeah. So
I remember when I moved in freshman year and it
(03:02):
was seriously like a party, Like people drove ran up
to our cars unpacked for us, like ran the stuff
up to our rooms, and everyone was like hugging and
welcoming you. But I'm curious to know what was the
energy like when you first arrived. There was definitely people
around to help and point out directions, but for the
most part, it was very self led, so like we
were able to pull our cars up to our dorms
(03:23):
and just move all of our stuff and with ourselves,
like with our family, And Harvard had a rule where
we only could have like one person helping this move
in to try to limit contact tracing and things like that,
and so it was very much a lot more independent.
But there were people to help you out if you
needed help with with directions or with testing, but for
the most part, it was pretty much just me and
my family. Yeah, my first year, I remember I had
(03:46):
my whole family with me because I'm also an international student,
and like all their lugages were filled with my stuff.
So I can't imagine doing the movement process without anyone.
So what measures has Harvard put in place to ensure
the safety of students. Yeah, so right now we're all
in a quarantine period, and so we every student or
(04:07):
every person on campus. So faculty, undergrad graduate students all
are getting tested three times a week. And when we
moved in, we got tested and then we were put
into a twenty four hour quarantine until we got our results.
And then you move into phase two of quarantine where
you get tested two more times in the week, and
then after you get your negative tests that kind of
(04:28):
allows you to have more freedom as far as socialization
and things like that go. But there's are there there
are some things that right now we just can't do,
like none of our facilities are open as far as
like gyms or libraries, and then we also can't have
other people in our room outside of our suite mate.
They're like also social distancing guidelines like sixt apart all
of that. So they have a lot of testing and
then also a lot of different guidelines to try and
(04:50):
limit the spread of the virus. But yeah, that's kind
of our current situation. Yeah, and so how is Harvard
enforcing those quarantine guidelines like our you're not allowed to
walk around and drive off campus. Yes, So that's kind
of the part that's been a little bit kind of
like a question mark because some people have clearly not
been following the guidelines, like with social media and stuff
(05:12):
like people going out on Harvard Square, our people with
large groups in the yard when we know that you're
not supposed to be like that right now, and so
then enforce the enforcing of the guidelines is something that
is still i think trying to be worked out, but
right now it is more of an honor system because
they really want to enforce it. It's not like a
policing situation, and so they're trying to create this community mindset.
(05:34):
And so with that, I think there definitely is room
for people to slip up, but they're trying to do
their best to let people doing naturally without taking like
extreme measures. So maybe that will come from the future,
but hopefully not got it. Quarantining and social distancing, though
I imagine, can be rough and probably really isolating because
this is your first time on campus and maybe you
(05:55):
haven't been able to meet as many people yet. So
on that note, how are people trying to stay connect
did and just how are you making friends at this time?
So I think something that I think is kind of
interesting that's really happened, that's like really also really positive,
is that so many people are much more willing I
think they would be to make connections with people, and
I found that it's been Honestly, like, my transition socially
(06:15):
has been pretty good because I made friends online because
we didn't have any college business or anything, so like
everyone was way more invested in our online interactions. And
then I when I came here, I do have a
sweet meet, and so she's really sweet, love her, and
so I'm able to like hang out with her a
lot because we live in the same room together. And
so I think I definitely understand how it can be isolating,
(06:36):
especially for people who maybe didn't form those online connections
at first. But there is space to meet people kind of,
and there is still space to have those moments like
walking to the dining hall with maybe like some random
person you meet, or like yesterday, I was like window
hopping and just like going by people's windows and waving
in their window and so like that was like brought
me a lot of joy because I got to see
(06:58):
people and it was just like small all things like
that that I think people are cherishing a lot more.
And so that kind of is how I make the
socialized relation a little bit more bearable. But finding those
unique ways like connect with people, I think has kind
of made it a little bit more special. Everything Christian
said is so valid. I've also spoken to some first
year students and they're worried about the social scene. They're
(07:20):
worried about whether they're just gonna get kicked off campus
again or if their experience is ever going to be
what they had wished it was for sure, And I
know talking to some upperclassmen in my classes online already,
they're worried about some students wanting to still go out
and have a good time, and other students are worried
at how that's not safe and they could be jeopardizing
(07:41):
the health of all the other students and faculties. So
there's a lot of conflicting concerns, but I think we're
all on the same page and worried about the same stresses.
And that's why today Hannah and I are super excited
to be interviewing John Garisma. Yes, John Garisma is the
CEO of the Harris Poll, a leading public opinion, market research,
corporate brand and reputation strategy firm. He does so much.
(08:06):
He even conducted a COVID tracker and talked about on
this episode what people are feeling right now, So tune
in to hear all of his amazing insight on understanding
this pandemic. Welcome John, thanks so much for coming on
the show. So happy to be here with you both.
For listeners who don't know, can you elaborate on who
(08:26):
you are and what you do? Yeah, So, I run
a company called the Harris Pole. So we survey Americans
people around the world on a whole range of different
different issues, and I've also written a couple of books,
and I'm really interested in culture. On the note of
Harris Pol, we know Harris Pool is a global consulting
(08:48):
firm that has been doing extensive research on COVID and
its impact on different communities. Since Hannah and I are
college students, we're curious, did you find any surprising insights
about gen Z's response to the pandemic. What's really interesting
about what we're seeing with the gen Z data is
how seriously they are taking the pandemic. And I think
(09:09):
many times you're going to see these images, you know,
like we see on the news of college campuses and
young people socializing and not taking me seriously. In fact,
young people are actually highly more proponent of wearing masks
in our data, they're more actively proponent of social distancing.
And a lot of this is brand new research that
we've just done guys this week that's coming out with
(09:32):
the CDC. So you know, we see a very different
narrative around responsibility, and a lot of that is because
young people really want to get their lives back to
normal to get back on the college campuses and to
get get back to seeing their friends. Exactly. I hear
that conversation a lot with my friends. It's just like, Okay,
let's do hard best so that we can, you know,
by next year have a normal false semester with the
(09:54):
football games and the normal freshman coming on, and so
I can definite. I see how your research may reflect that.
But are there any ways you believe that gen Z
is positioned to thrive because of this pandemic? Yeah, I do.
I mean, I'll give you a quick example. One of
the things that we're doing is we're tracking ongoing data
(10:15):
in America that sort of looks at life. And one
of the things this is just from this past weekend.
We actually see that of Americans are fearful of a
second wave of COVID, fear leaving their house for essential errands.
And then there's this really remarkable sort of statistic where
(10:37):
there's fifty Americans right now that are afraid of dying
from COVID and an equal number that are afraid of
losing their job. And so I think when you put
those sort of statistics into some context, you start to
really look at how this is not unlike any other
event in our lifetimes. And we're seeing that in our data.
Seventy of Americans say right now that this is the
(11:00):
lowest point in US history that they can remember. So
this is our Pearl Harbor, right, this is our World
War two. And I think because of that, there's going
to be a lot of new opportunities for I think
attitudes and values in things to really change. We see
it in our work from home data, you know, we
see that right now a percent of Americans prefer to
(11:23):
actually work from home then going into the office. The
same number afraid of public transportation. So I think all
kinds of opportunities in a positive way are going to
get set up for this as businesses restructure, as new
attitudes as I said, you know, sort of sort of change.
Curious what you guys think. Just something that I've seen
(11:43):
because I'm an entrepreneurship major. So we've started having these
discussions with my fellow like entrepreneurship professors and classmates, and
just how a lot of businesses were born in a crisis, um,
you know, during the thousand eight recessions specifically, is what
you know we're looking at. And so that's what's been
interesting to me is talking with fellow students in business about,
like how you said, this will shape not only what
(12:05):
new businesses come out and new things that will be needing,
but also the whole work from home experience because Katie
and I also have been doing that for years. Is
we're mainly content creators, so we're used to the whole
working from home. But what about you, Katie, Yeah, exactly.
I've always identified as a homebody. I love side projects.
I'm excited for the passionate economy, the gig economy, and
(12:25):
since I was young, I've been making a lot of
YouTube videos from the home. I've been making apps, just
designing and lots of random things. So I'm very excited
to see how this pandemic is propelling us towards this
virtual and more flexible life. Oh absolutely, you guys, and
I think you've had the jump on it, you know.
(12:46):
But obviously by all the things that you guys just described,
and I do think there's going to be new businesses,
as you said, Hannah, like new startups. Um, they're going
to cater to all these new lifestyles. I mean, we're
seeing lots of different things in our data that are
kind of interesting and inspiring. I mean, one is that
home remodeling is way up, so people are actually looking
(13:07):
at their houses and their apartments and there's their places
in saying, you know what, maybe this is gonna be
more permanent. We're also seeing people that are interested in
moving to the suburbs or moving to a different city,
you know, because of that flexibility that you guys just described.
And of course, like we're having now, there's a lot
of conversation about how this pandemic will alter the future
(13:29):
of work, which is very top of mind for young
people who will be entering the workforce in the next
year or so. From everything you've seen or heard over
the last few months, how do you think COVID will
impact the future of work? Yeah, you know, we asked
that question in our survey and we track it every
week and um, one of the things that we see
as of just this past weekend, we asked this question.
(13:50):
You know, once the pandemic is over and things return
to normal, do you you know what do you think
will be very different or somewhat different or mostly the same.
And when it comes to work about Americans and this
is all Americans sort of eight team plus say, um,
you know, it'll be mostly the same, but you know,
you've got two say it's going to be very different,
(14:12):
in thirty two saying it's somewhat different. So you put
those two together. The majority of Americans really think work
life is going to be different. And I think we
see that, like in our lives now, people are thinking
not only about work from home, but like we said,
you know, maybe I'll go into the office two days
a week. It's a little bit of kind of how
school is right now in many parts of America right
(14:33):
a mixture of sort of online and um, you know,
and in person. And so the other things we're seeing
in our data is Americans are concerned about going back
into the office though, because of you know, the ventilation
and all of that. So they want to be able
to have staggered work hours. They want to not necessarily
be in high volume, you know, environments, and so I
(14:57):
think companies are gonna be rethinking all that. They'll be
rethinking king open spaces, they'll be rethinking sort of when
workers come in. And again I think all that will
create maybe new opportunities, particularly for young people to maybe
lead the way because the old ways clearly aren't I think,
going to be the same as they were before the crisis, right,
(15:19):
And as college students, these times are also not without
their challenges. We I see it as a college student
and just you know, how will I see my friends?
How will I get to have that college experience that
I was you know, really excited for. Do you know
any ways that gen Z could be challenged? Yeah, and
I think this is just a tremendously difficult time for
(15:43):
all of us, but but especially for young people. And
you know, my heart goes out to you guys. I
have a daughter who's seventeen, and we were running around
uh last week, um, you know, going up to New
England onto all these campuses, trying to get a feel
for the campus and you know, they're basically there's no
one there. And so just this being robbed of this
(16:05):
time of socializing. And because of that, we're seeing a
lot of anxiety, um and stress in our data, especially
with young people. Um. So you know, we see overall,
you know, sort of as of this past weekend, of
Americans say they're angry, percent say of cabin fever. Of
(16:27):
people say that they're lonely, and so those those are
really the emotions that are on the negative side. But
what is also interesting is I think this has been
a time for a perspective. I'm curious what you guys think,
but we're seeing also in the data seventy of people
say that they're appreciative um and sixty percent of people
saying that they're trying to feel more compassionate toward their
(16:50):
family members and their friends to try to create, uh,
that sense of empathy and so this sense of like
gratitude and thankfulness despite all this is sort of an
interesting dynamic. And I don't know what you guys think. Yeah,
I'm sure. I mean I notice obviously the challenges and
things that are different and the stuff that sucks about it.
(17:10):
But I have talked about with friends and online how
being sent home back in March and being home for
the summer early has made me thankful for the time
I've gotten to spend with my family, honestly, and I'm
I'm grateful, like you use that word, that I have
a family and a home I could come home to
and feel safe in. I know that's not the same
for everyone, but especially spending time with my younger brother,
(17:31):
who's a senior in high school, this year, so you know,
we're not going to be home at the same time
a lot anymore. And just taking note of those little things,
UM have really kept me saying during all the craziness.
Same here. I'm actually an international student, so I'm in
the Philippines right now, and I study in New York
though at Cornell. But I have just been thinking a
(17:51):
lot about the opportunities and the privileges I've had of
you know, at least having two years abroad in college.
You know, I was disappointed when we had to evacuate
campus and I had to come back home, but at
the end of the day, I get to continue. Virtually.
I have a roof over my head, I have a
support system, and it's not something I can say for
a lot of other people in my country, which is
(18:13):
very impoverished. So being cognizant of all of that has
also inspired me to think about how I can use
my platform and the knowledge I've learned in college to
try to help these communities. That's amazing, That's very inspiring.
And I think you guys both have the incredible perspective
on this because I think if I had thought about
(18:33):
myself in your situation at your age, I'd feel really
disappointed about everything that's going on, and it's really great,
you know, to hear you think about it, and really
importantly what I'm hearing too is that you're thinking about
how you project this out and use it to your
benefit in the future, because gosh knows, we need a
lot of hope right now. Thank you. So we'd love
(18:55):
to talk more about your work in the gender equality
space now. You are a bestselling author, well known for
co authoring the book The Athena Doctrine, How women and
the men who think like them will Rule the Future.
Can you tell us more about the feminine qualities of
leadership that you think will create a better world for us, Sure, Katie. Yeah.
(19:16):
We What we did is we did a massive sample
of research. We talked to fifties six thousand Americans Chinese.
I think we were in thirteen different countries. So at
the total country pool for the data was almost eighty
percent of all of GDP, So it was just a
(19:36):
very large swath of of of the world. And what
we did is we sort of divided our sample into
two groups and we asked them to take a number
of different human traits, human skills, competencies, um, you know,
words like um, compassionate, selfless, um, angry, you know a
(19:56):
range of different things. And we asked them to gender
the to tell us that they thought that they were
more associated with women or men, or were they binary
or they neither. And then the other sample, we asked
them to take those very same traits and associate them
with what are the qualities for modern leaders And they
had no knowledge of whether we were talking about anything
(20:19):
having to do with gender, and so what we did
is we just modeled the data and started to look
at correlations, and we started to see really interestingly that
the qualities that people thought were associated with modern leadership
were also things that both men and women thought were feminine.
And really hope really possibly was basically, we're all human,
(20:39):
we could all use these things, is what they were saying.
But the things that they associated is modern and feminine
were empathy, collaboration, selflessness, patients, um, even resilience, And so
they really talked a lot about those as being sort
of really powerful traits that we need today, and we
think that those are very much aligned with the needs
(21:02):
of the modern economy. If the research shows that feminine
qualities are essential in improving our world. Why do we
still see huge agenda disparities in the workplace? Like what's
holding us back? Yeah, I mean I think this is
sort of the last gasp of toxic masculinity. I think
this is sort of a major generational shift that we're on.
(21:23):
You know, we have millennials now coming into power gen
Z moving into the workforce. We see ten to twelve
point differences on all kinds of attitudes that are far
more progressive among young people, both you know, more conservative
and more liberal. And so we see that at a
lot of our data is really thinking about how are
(21:45):
we lift up all of us? And so I think
that's probably what's at play here. But when you go
back to the workforce, you still have a lot of
older people, boomers, you know, that are still sort of
in positions authority haven't really moved fast enough to sort
of you know, address those issues. But that reckoning is coming.
(22:06):
You know. In our Black Lives Matter data that we
are tracking with the Harris Poll, you know, we see
major gaps in Americans support of Black Lives Matter, which
is so inspiring, Like they're saying, um, I think it's
roughly seventy two right now. Are very supportive of Black
Lives Matter movement, and they think it's going to be
(22:26):
different this time because so many different people are involved.
But when he gets to how businesses are performing with
regard to pay equality on either racial or gender basis,
it's like a twenty point difference, right, so it's about
fift say they're doing okay, and say they're not. So
clearly business has a lot of work to do. That's interesting,
(22:47):
and thinking about the workplace during COVID, there are conflicting
arguments about whether COVID has leveled the playing field for
women at work because on one side, everyone is home
and there's no special meetings or boys club playing out
in the workplace. But the other side is that women
are still considered the primary caregivers in the US and
have more responsibilities, maybe while working from home. So how
(23:10):
do you believe working remotely has impacted the way of
work moving forward? I think Canada, you're actually right. It's
placed greater pressure on women in a number of ways. Definitely,
the dual pressures of household work, of professional work, of
taking care of kids, and online classes. And we see
that in our data. Parents are stressed out right, They're
(23:33):
completely stressed. Over all these responsibilities, but moms are more
stressed out than dad's generally when we look across the data,
so that's still sort of those traditional sort of male
female parenting constructs are starting to change, at least with
within younger people, but clearly that's not happening fast enough,
(23:56):
and we're seeing women and moms talking with more anxiety
and stress because of it. I think the second thing
that's really kind of important to sort of look at
is that this COVID has disproportionately affected women this time
more than men. During a global financial crisis, it was
it was men that really got hit hard, and you know,
(24:17):
this one has been likened more to a she session,
you know, a recession. Recession that's really hit women harder,
particularly young women that might have been working in service industries,
you know, getting started, um, you know, in the restaurant
industry and and those types of things. So it's very
difficult right now economically and also sort of socially for women.
(24:40):
Right I think the picture that you paint is one
of there's this really promising future where Gen Z and
millennials are really like those dozen the values of you know, collectivism,
but at the same time the present we seem to
be living in is not quite there. You know, we
recognize that women are really actual workers, but there's still
(25:01):
a gap from the president in future, and I'm curious
what would it take to bridge that. Well. I think
that's why this event is so remarkable. Um that COVID
is tragic as it has been, is a major dislocation.
And usually what happens when there are major dislocations that
that our attitude ships and sort of new beliefs that
(25:23):
emerge out of them. What's remarkable is that this is
a triple headed crisis, right. It's a public health crisis,
it's an economic crisis that is spreading out into understanding
of income inequality, and so you know, even things like
you know, Obamacare that was seen as so progressive maybe
two years ago, that looks now sort of like mainstream
(25:46):
right that people need to have some type of adequate healthcare.
So we are seeing full shifts into into more equality,
into sort of more thinking than that seems to be
taken hold with with larger groups of the population. And
what I think is exciting about the way the way
gen Z young men and women are thinking is that
(26:07):
they are looking at this as is sort of fundamental
moral issues, and I think that that that moral platform
could be a really interesting place where young conservatives and
young liberals could sort of come together and say, regardless
of our political differences and all of the way we
see the world, there are some fundamental tenants that make
us human and these are the things that we need
(26:28):
to focus on. And for college students, how can we
start reflecting the values, you know, these feminine values and
have them work together, um in just the clubs and
organizations that were part of maybe not yet a professional workplace. Yeah,
I mean, definitely taking action on campus, getting involved in programs,
(26:48):
taking advantage of this time. You know. One of the
things I found remarkable. I don't know what you guys think,
but we have far more access to our clients, to
people in the media, to people that we work with
now over these platforms, simply because it's convenient. You don't
waste as much time traveling. It's hard to do in
(27:10):
person meetings sometimes, and so I think there's just tremendous
opportunities for young people to use you know, Zoom and
teams and Google hangouts and all these awesome platforms to
get involved right to either you know, get involved on
a petition, to move on dot org, to get involved
in a charity. Um. You know, there's so many incredible
(27:31):
things that to be done, and I think that's a
big opportunity on campus. The other thing I'd say real
quickly is that business really needs young people. And I
firmly believe that human resources is really going to be
the innovation inside companies because company cultures are going to
(27:51):
be sort of the weapons differentiation right It's a war
on talent right now, and so so young people are
going to be using their vow. I used to judge
companies and say, hey, you know is this company? Does
it fit my value set? And so companies are going
to have to change to really focus on young, young
people and what they want from those value standpoint. And
(28:12):
if you look at something like the Business Roundtable, which
is a coalition of of organizations of companies, they finally
come out and said, you know, it's not just about
shareholder value, it's about stakeholder value. It's about having more
more of those types of things. So you're seeing business
as result, and it's all because the power of talent.
(28:33):
They need young people's talents. So those values are really
critical and after the two thousand nine financial crisis, you
also published another book called Spend Shift, How the post
crisis values revolution is changing the way we buy, sell,
and live. As we are in the midst of another crisis,
I'm curious if you feel any of those lessons still apply. Yeah.
(28:53):
We we were really kind of you know, Michael D'Antonio,
who's my co author. He's a pull enterprise winning reporter
from from Newsday and he works now at at CNN,
and he and I were just really interested in what
type of a crisis would spur, you know, a movement
to something better. And we started to really see that happening.
(29:15):
And one of the places we went where we really
saw it in our reporting was we went into inner
city Detroit. And this was in the middle of the crisis,
and basically Detroit downtown was indistinguishable from a place that
looked like it was in a war. You know, there
was nobody there, and yet in the middle of it,
we've met these entrepreneurs that were starting Detroit over and
(29:38):
they created this thing called the Detroit Declaration for the
entrepreneurs to support each other and to sort of rebuild.
And so I think that's very much this metaphor. I'm
very long on America. I'm very long on America's young people.
I think we've got tremendous opportunities to learn from this crisis,
to find our alience because you know, Americans are inherently optimistic,
(30:03):
and many people around the world optimistic, but there's something
about American ingenuity, entrepreneurialism. You know, what you two are
both doing is really hopeful and energetic, and I think
that's the thing that's sort of is going to drive
and feed and feed us forward. And that was really
what that book was all about, was doing that with
a sense of values and understanding that you know, there's
(30:25):
a values economy um that that is emerging. And that
book now is almost ten years old, and really we've
been really hardened to see how much business has moved
over the past decade towards that. That's amazing. For our
final question, we would love to know if you anticipate
any new cultural shifts or opportunities that will arise from COVID.
(30:46):
So we talked about the future of remote work, collectivism, culture,
and just this being so unique because it's an amalgamation
of many different issues just colliding at once and Also,
at the end of the day, how can we as
gen Z be ready for this change. That's a really
great question. I'm we're coming up on our six months
(31:06):
of data this next weekend, and we're gonna be taking
a look at back at what has changed and what hasn't.
Because one of the things the public opinion is that
you know it'll it'll expand and it will contract. We
always say people have an opinion until they change their minds,
and so things will sort of go back and forth.
So it's hard to predict too much into the future.
(31:27):
But I do believe there are major shifts in how
people will work. I think there's major shifts and where
people will live um and so that's going to impact
potentially cities and urban areas. But with that, I think
comes big opportunities for renaissance in in places that are
expensive and priced out right. So if real estate drops
(31:49):
in New York City, where I'm at today, how awesome
would that be for young people to come back in
and artists and and get ahold of revitalizing this city.
So those I think are really important. I also think
there's a major shift around empathy and understanding and gratitude.
I think people learned a lot as you talked about,
(32:09):
you know, with your with your siblings. People have learned
a lot about reflection on their relationships, you know, with
their spouses, with their parents, with their kids, with their friends.
And I think that ultimately there's going to be a
more of a closeness ironically, because we're social creatures, you know,
we haven't been able to hug for six months, we
have been able to see people, and I think that
(32:32):
that reappraisal of what makes us human and what makes
us really really tick as people is going to be
maybe a new form of spirituality in its own way
that's going to be really useful for us moving forward.
Thank you so much, John for being on the Secret
Syllabus and informing US college students about navigating the pandemic
(32:52):
as well as workforce equality and giving us hope for
our post crisis lives while giving us amazing stats um
as well, I'm own press. You knew all those off
the top of your head, but listeners that you can
learn more about John gersmad at John Gersma dot com
and the Harris Poll dot com, and of course check
out his book The Athena Doctrine. Thanks John, I am
(33:14):
so ready for the future. You know, when people used
to ask me what job or internship do you want?
I would never have a clear answer, and I would
actually joke. You know, the dream career I want doesn't
exist yet, and it was kind of a cop out then,
But right now I really feel it. The dream career
I want is one with flexibility, it's one with empathy.
(33:35):
It's one of the communities I care about, and it
is definitely one where I have the courage as a woman,
because growing up I didn't have that. But after this interview,
I am so ready to channel the inner Athena and me.
I love that. My takeaway from John is that now
is the time for gen z to step forward. Like
we are most familiar with technology, remote working, making money
(33:59):
from home and ex said dra so we need to
show up and help older generations with the tech world
and of course make away for ourselves to yes. Well,
thank you guys for checking us out today, and thank
you again to John Garzma for taking the time to
come on our podcast and share his wisdom. We are
your host, Katie. You can find me at Aloha Katie
(34:20):
x on Instagram and I'm Hannah. You can find me
at Miss Hannah Ashton on Instagram. The Secret Syllabus is
a production of The Female Quotion and I Heart Radio
and co produced by the Female Quotion and Wonder Media Network.
The f Q is committed to advancing equality and elevating
women from college campuses to the corner office. You can
find out more at www dot The Female Quotient dot com.
(34:44):
Hi guys, see you after class.
Welcome back to The Secret Syllabus podcast. The Secret Syllabus
is a production of The Female Quotient and I Heart Radio.
I'm Hannah and I'm Katie and for today's episode, we're
going to talk about COVID, the global pandemic that has
altered all of our lives. COVID has changed everything from
work to college to family life in every way possible.
(00:26):
I am in the Philippines right now, and it's my
one hundred fiftieth day in quarantine. I have not left
since March when I returned from college. Wow. And I
did move back in with my parents in March when
they sent us home, but now I just moved into
an apartment near my campus. But we know this pandemic
has shattered so many expectations and opportunities. Agreed. I never
(00:49):
thought I would be doing online school, which is what
I'm doing right now with remote learning in a country
that's twelve hours ahead from the time zhone I'm normally
in and my sched it has changed dramatically. Instead of
you know, being in the morning and afternoon, it's either
early morning or really late at night for me. Uh,
with my afternoon's completely free. It's something I'm definitely getting
(01:12):
used to I'm so impressed with how you're handling that
I just think, props to you. But that's why this
episode is all about COVID nineteen and our future. But
before we introduce our guests, we want to introduce to
you guys are on Campus Correspondent, our college correspondent will
be joining us for some episodes to get an inside
look into what is happening on a college campus right now.
(01:35):
Christian is a YouTuber and first year student at Harvard
University this year, and we are so excited to talk
and just check in with her because she's doing the
whole movement thing, the whole orientation. She's living in a dorm,
and I imagine it's gonna look a lot different. Hi,
Welcome Christian. We are so excited to have you be
(01:56):
our on campus correspondent. Can you tell us a little
bit more about yourself? Where do you go to school
and what year are you? My name is Christian, I
am a first year at Harvard, And a little bit
about me. I'm super obsessed with theater, acapella, all things
like creative making YouTube videos, and I kind of don't
(02:16):
know what I'm going to study. Yet but something along
those lines and maybe like a social science thrown in.
But yeah, I don't know about me. That sounds super
fun and I think you'll love the acapella scene in college.
What made you choose to go to campus instead of
taking a gap year? When the news came out about
what our fal semester would look like in regards like
virtual learning and not having like a traditional college experience,
(02:40):
I initially had the desire to stay home and not
go on campus because I didn't know if the value
would be the same. But the more that I talked
to professors and other students, I learned that this situation
isn't normal and we kind of just have to make
the best of it. And now I'm here. Yeah. So
I remember when I moved in freshman year and it
(03:02):
was seriously like a party, Like people drove ran up
to our cars unpacked for us, like ran the stuff
up to our rooms, and everyone was like hugging and
welcoming you. But I'm curious to know what was the
energy like when you first arrived. There was definitely people
around to help and point out directions, but for the
most part, it was very self led, so like we
were able to pull our cars up to our dorms
(03:23):
and just move all of our stuff and with ourselves,
like with our family, And Harvard had a rule where
we only could have like one person helping this move
in to try to limit contact tracing and things like that,
and so it was very much a lot more independent.
But there were people to help you out if you
needed help with with directions or with testing, but for
the most part, it was pretty much just me and
my family. Yeah, my first year, I remember I had
(03:46):
my whole family with me because I'm also an international student,
and like all their lugages were filled with my stuff.
So I can't imagine doing the movement process without anyone.
So what measures has Harvard put in place to ensure
the safety of students. Yeah, so right now we're all
in a quarantine period, and so we every student or
(04:07):
every person on campus. So faculty, undergrad graduate students all
are getting tested three times a week. And when we
moved in, we got tested and then we were put
into a twenty four hour quarantine until we got our results.
And then you move into phase two of quarantine where
you get tested two more times in the week, and
then after you get your negative tests that kind of
(04:28):
allows you to have more freedom as far as socialization
and things like that go. But there's are there there
are some things that right now we just can't do,
like none of our facilities are open as far as
like gyms or libraries, and then we also can't have
other people in our room outside of our suite mate.
They're like also social distancing guidelines like sixt apart all
of that. So they have a lot of testing and
then also a lot of different guidelines to try and
(04:50):
limit the spread of the virus. But yeah, that's kind
of our current situation. Yeah, and so how is Harvard
enforcing those quarantine guidelines like our you're not allowed to
walk around and drive off campus. Yes, So that's kind
of the part that's been a little bit kind of
like a question mark because some people have clearly not
been following the guidelines, like with social media and stuff
(05:12):
like people going out on Harvard Square, our people with
large groups in the yard when we know that you're
not supposed to be like that right now, and so
then enforce the enforcing of the guidelines is something that
is still i think trying to be worked out, but
right now it is more of an honor system because
they really want to enforce it. It's not like a
policing situation, and so they're trying to create this community mindset.
(05:34):
And so with that, I think there definitely is room
for people to slip up, but they're trying to do
their best to let people doing naturally without taking like
extreme measures. So maybe that will come from the future,
but hopefully not got it. Quarantining and social distancing, though
I imagine, can be rough and probably really isolating because
this is your first time on campus and maybe you
(05:55):
haven't been able to meet as many people yet. So
on that note, how are people trying to stay connect
did and just how are you making friends at this time?
So I think something that I think is kind of
interesting that's really happened, that's like really also really positive,
is that so many people are much more willing I
think they would be to make connections with people, and
I found that it's been Honestly, like, my transition socially
(06:15):
has been pretty good because I made friends online because
we didn't have any college business or anything, so like
everyone was way more invested in our online interactions. And
then I when I came here, I do have a
sweet meet, and so she's really sweet, love her, and
so I'm able to like hang out with her a
lot because we live in the same room together. And
so I think I definitely understand how it can be isolating,
(06:36):
especially for people who maybe didn't form those online connections
at first. But there is space to meet people kind of,
and there is still space to have those moments like
walking to the dining hall with maybe like some random
person you meet, or like yesterday, I was like window
hopping and just like going by people's windows and waving
in their window and so like that was like brought
me a lot of joy because I got to see
(06:58):
people and it was just like small all things like
that that I think people are cherishing a lot more.
And so that kind of is how I make the
socialized relation a little bit more bearable. But finding those
unique ways like connect with people, I think has kind
of made it a little bit more special. Everything Christian
said is so valid. I've also spoken to some first
year students and they're worried about the social scene. They're
(07:20):
worried about whether they're just gonna get kicked off campus
again or if their experience is ever going to be
what they had wished it was for sure, And I
know talking to some upperclassmen in my classes online already,
they're worried about some students wanting to still go out
and have a good time, and other students are worried
at how that's not safe and they could be jeopardizing
(07:41):
the health of all the other students and faculties. So
there's a lot of conflicting concerns, but I think we're
all on the same page and worried about the same stresses.
And that's why today Hannah and I are super excited
to be interviewing John Garisma. Yes, John Garisma is the
CEO of the Harris Poll, a leading public opinion, market research,
corporate brand and reputation strategy firm. He does so much.
(08:06):
He even conducted a COVID tracker and talked about on
this episode what people are feeling right now, So tune
in to hear all of his amazing insight on understanding
this pandemic. Welcome John, thanks so much for coming on
the show. So happy to be here with you both.
For listeners who don't know, can you elaborate on who
(08:26):
you are and what you do? Yeah, So, I run
a company called the Harris Pole. So we survey Americans
people around the world on a whole range of different
different issues, and I've also written a couple of books,
and I'm really interested in culture. On the note of
Harris Pol, we know Harris Pool is a global consulting
(08:48):
firm that has been doing extensive research on COVID and
its impact on different communities. Since Hannah and I are
college students, we're curious, did you find any surprising insights
about gen Z's response to the pandemic. What's really interesting
about what we're seeing with the gen Z data is
how seriously they are taking the pandemic. And I think
(09:09):
many times you're going to see these images, you know,
like we see on the news of college campuses and
young people socializing and not taking me seriously. In fact,
young people are actually highly more proponent of wearing masks
in our data, they're more actively proponent of social distancing.
And a lot of this is brand new research that
we've just done guys this week that's coming out with
(09:32):
the CDC. So you know, we see a very different
narrative around responsibility, and a lot of that is because
young people really want to get their lives back to
normal to get back on the college campuses and to
get get back to seeing their friends. Exactly. I hear
that conversation a lot with my friends. It's just like, Okay,
let's do hard best so that we can, you know,
by next year have a normal false semester with the
(09:54):
football games and the normal freshman coming on, and so
I can definite. I see how your research may reflect that.
But are there any ways you believe that gen Z
is positioned to thrive because of this pandemic? Yeah, I do.
I mean, I'll give you a quick example. One of
the things that we're doing is we're tracking ongoing data
(10:15):
in America that sort of looks at life. And one
of the things this is just from this past weekend.
We actually see that of Americans are fearful of a
second wave of COVID, fear leaving their house for essential errands.
And then there's this really remarkable sort of statistic where
(10:37):
there's fifty Americans right now that are afraid of dying
from COVID and an equal number that are afraid of
losing their job. And so I think when you put
those sort of statistics into some context, you start to
really look at how this is not unlike any other
event in our lifetimes. And we're seeing that in our data.
Seventy of Americans say right now that this is the
(11:00):
lowest point in US history that they can remember. So
this is our Pearl Harbor, right, this is our World
War two. And I think because of that, there's going
to be a lot of new opportunities for I think
attitudes and values in things to really change. We see
it in our work from home data, you know, we
see that right now a percent of Americans prefer to
(11:23):
actually work from home then going into the office. The
same number afraid of public transportation. So I think all
kinds of opportunities in a positive way are going to
get set up for this as businesses restructure, as new
attitudes as I said, you know, sort of sort of change.
Curious what you guys think. Just something that I've seen
(11:43):
because I'm an entrepreneurship major. So we've started having these
discussions with my fellow like entrepreneurship professors and classmates, and
just how a lot of businesses were born in a crisis, um,
you know, during the thousand eight recessions specifically, is what
you know we're looking at. And so that's what's been
interesting to me is talking with fellow students in business about,
like how you said, this will shape not only what
(12:05):
new businesses come out and new things that will be needing,
but also the whole work from home experience because Katie
and I also have been doing that for years. Is
we're mainly content creators, so we're used to the whole
working from home. But what about you, Katie, Yeah, exactly.
I've always identified as a homebody. I love side projects.
I'm excited for the passionate economy, the gig economy, and
(12:25):
since I was young, I've been making a lot of
YouTube videos from the home. I've been making apps, just
designing and lots of random things. So I'm very excited
to see how this pandemic is propelling us towards this
virtual and more flexible life. Oh absolutely, you guys, and
I think you've had the jump on it, you know.
(12:46):
But obviously by all the things that you guys just described,
and I do think there's going to be new businesses,
as you said, Hannah, like new startups. Um, they're going
to cater to all these new lifestyles. I mean, we're
seeing lots of different things in our data that are
kind of interesting and inspiring. I mean, one is that
home remodeling is way up, so people are actually looking
(13:07):
at their houses and their apartments and there's their places
in saying, you know what, maybe this is gonna be
more permanent. We're also seeing people that are interested in
moving to the suburbs or moving to a different city,
you know, because of that flexibility that you guys just described.
And of course, like we're having now, there's a lot
of conversation about how this pandemic will alter the future
(13:29):
of work, which is very top of mind for young
people who will be entering the workforce in the next
year or so. From everything you've seen or heard over
the last few months, how do you think COVID will
impact the future of work? Yeah, you know, we asked
that question in our survey and we track it every
week and um, one of the things that we see
as of just this past weekend, we asked this question.
(13:50):
You know, once the pandemic is over and things return
to normal, do you you know what do you think
will be very different or somewhat different or mostly the same.
And when it comes to work about Americans and this
is all Americans sort of eight team plus say, um,
you know, it'll be mostly the same, but you know,
you've got two say it's going to be very different,
(14:12):
in thirty two saying it's somewhat different. So you put
those two together. The majority of Americans really think work
life is going to be different. And I think we
see that, like in our lives now, people are thinking
not only about work from home, but like we said,
you know, maybe I'll go into the office two days
a week. It's a little bit of kind of how
school is right now in many parts of America right
(14:33):
a mixture of sort of online and um, you know,
and in person. And so the other things we're seeing
in our data is Americans are concerned about going back
into the office though, because of you know, the ventilation
and all of that. So they want to be able
to have staggered work hours. They want to not necessarily
be in high volume, you know, environments, and so I
(14:57):
think companies are gonna be rethinking all that. They'll be
rethinking king open spaces, they'll be rethinking sort of when
workers come in. And again I think all that will
create maybe new opportunities, particularly for young people to maybe
lead the way because the old ways clearly aren't I think,
going to be the same as they were before the crisis, right,
(15:19):
And as college students, these times are also not without
their challenges. We I see it as a college student
and just you know, how will I see my friends?
How will I get to have that college experience that
I was you know, really excited for. Do you know
any ways that gen Z could be challenged? Yeah, and
I think this is just a tremendously difficult time for
(15:43):
all of us, but but especially for young people. And
you know, my heart goes out to you guys. I
have a daughter who's seventeen, and we were running around
uh last week, um, you know, going up to New
England onto all these campuses, trying to get a feel
for the campus and you know, they're basically there's no
one there. And so just this being robbed of this
(16:05):
time of socializing. And because of that, we're seeing a
lot of anxiety, um and stress in our data, especially
with young people. Um. So you know, we see overall,
you know, sort of as of this past weekend, of
Americans say they're angry, percent say of cabin fever. Of
(16:27):
people say that they're lonely, and so those those are
really the emotions that are on the negative side. But
what is also interesting is I think this has been
a time for a perspective. I'm curious what you guys think,
but we're seeing also in the data seventy of people
say that they're appreciative um and sixty percent of people
saying that they're trying to feel more compassionate toward their
(16:50):
family members and their friends to try to create, uh,
that sense of empathy and so this sense of like
gratitude and thankfulness despite all this is sort of an
interesting dynamic. And I don't know what you guys think. Yeah,
I'm sure. I mean I notice obviously the challenges and
things that are different and the stuff that sucks about it.
(17:10):
But I have talked about with friends and online how
being sent home back in March and being home for
the summer early has made me thankful for the time
I've gotten to spend with my family, honestly, and I'm
I'm grateful, like you use that word, that I have
a family and a home I could come home to
and feel safe in. I know that's not the same
for everyone, but especially spending time with my younger brother,
(17:31):
who's a senior in high school, this year, so you know,
we're not going to be home at the same time
a lot anymore. And just taking note of those little things,
UM have really kept me saying during all the craziness.
Same here. I'm actually an international student, so I'm in
the Philippines right now, and I study in New York
though at Cornell. But I have just been thinking a
(17:51):
lot about the opportunities and the privileges I've had of
you know, at least having two years abroad in college.
You know, I was disappointed when we had to evacuate
campus and I had to come back home, but at
the end of the day, I get to continue. Virtually.
I have a roof over my head, I have a
support system, and it's not something I can say for
a lot of other people in my country, which is
(18:13):
very impoverished. So being cognizant of all of that has
also inspired me to think about how I can use
my platform and the knowledge I've learned in college to
try to help these communities. That's amazing, That's very inspiring.
And I think you guys both have the incredible perspective
on this because I think if I had thought about
(18:33):
myself in your situation at your age, I'd feel really
disappointed about everything that's going on, and it's really great,
you know, to hear you think about it, and really
importantly what I'm hearing too is that you're thinking about
how you project this out and use it to your
benefit in the future, because gosh knows, we need a
lot of hope right now. Thank you. So we'd love
(18:55):
to talk more about your work in the gender equality
space now. You are a bestselling author, well known for
co authoring the book The Athena Doctrine, How women and
the men who think like them will Rule the Future.
Can you tell us more about the feminine qualities of
leadership that you think will create a better world for us, Sure, Katie. Yeah.
(19:16):
We What we did is we did a massive sample
of research. We talked to fifties six thousand Americans Chinese.
I think we were in thirteen different countries. So at
the total country pool for the data was almost eighty
percent of all of GDP, So it was just a
(19:36):
very large swath of of of the world. And what
we did is we sort of divided our sample into
two groups and we asked them to take a number
of different human traits, human skills, competencies, um, you know,
words like um, compassionate, selfless, um, angry, you know a
(19:56):
range of different things. And we asked them to gender
the to tell us that they thought that they were
more associated with women or men, or were they binary
or they neither. And then the other sample, we asked
them to take those very same traits and associate them
with what are the qualities for modern leaders And they
had no knowledge of whether we were talking about anything
(20:19):
having to do with gender, and so what we did
is we just modeled the data and started to look
at correlations, and we started to see really interestingly that
the qualities that people thought were associated with modern leadership
were also things that both men and women thought were feminine.
And really hope really possibly was basically, we're all human,
(20:39):
we could all use these things, is what they were saying.
But the things that they associated is modern and feminine
were empathy, collaboration, selflessness, patients, um, even resilience, And so
they really talked a lot about those as being sort
of really powerful traits that we need today, and we
think that those are very much aligned with the needs
(21:02):
of the modern economy. If the research shows that feminine
qualities are essential in improving our world. Why do we
still see huge agenda disparities in the workplace? Like what's
holding us back? Yeah, I mean I think this is
sort of the last gasp of toxic masculinity. I think
this is sort of a major generational shift that we're on.
(21:23):
You know, we have millennials now coming into power gen
Z moving into the workforce. We see ten to twelve
point differences on all kinds of attitudes that are far
more progressive among young people, both you know, more conservative
and more liberal. And so we see that at a
lot of our data is really thinking about how are
(21:45):
we lift up all of us? And so I think
that's probably what's at play here. But when you go
back to the workforce, you still have a lot of
older people, boomers, you know, that are still sort of
in positions authority haven't really moved fast enough to sort
of you know, address those issues. But that reckoning is coming.
(22:06):
You know. In our Black Lives Matter data that we
are tracking with the Harris Poll, you know, we see
major gaps in Americans support of Black Lives Matter, which
is so inspiring, Like they're saying, um, I think it's
roughly seventy two right now. Are very supportive of Black
Lives Matter movement, and they think it's going to be
(22:26):
different this time because so many different people are involved.
But when he gets to how businesses are performing with
regard to pay equality on either racial or gender basis,
it's like a twenty point difference, right, so it's about
fift say they're doing okay, and say they're not. So
clearly business has a lot of work to do. That's interesting,
(22:47):
and thinking about the workplace during COVID, there are conflicting
arguments about whether COVID has leveled the playing field for
women at work because on one side, everyone is home
and there's no special meetings or boys club playing out
in the workplace. But the other side is that women
are still considered the primary caregivers in the US and
have more responsibilities, maybe while working from home. So how
(23:10):
do you believe working remotely has impacted the way of
work moving forward? I think Canada, you're actually right. It's
placed greater pressure on women in a number of ways. Definitely,
the dual pressures of household work, of professional work, of
taking care of kids, and online classes. And we see
that in our data. Parents are stressed out right, They're
(23:33):
completely stressed. Over all these responsibilities, but moms are more
stressed out than dad's generally when we look across the data,
so that's still sort of those traditional sort of male
female parenting constructs are starting to change, at least with
within younger people, but clearly that's not happening fast enough,
(23:56):
and we're seeing women and moms talking with more anxiety
and stress because of it. I think the second thing
that's really kind of important to sort of look at
is that this COVID has disproportionately affected women this time
more than men. During a global financial crisis, it was
it was men that really got hit hard, and you know,
(24:17):
this one has been likened more to a she session,
you know, a recession. Recession that's really hit women harder,
particularly young women that might have been working in service industries,
you know, getting started, um, you know, in the restaurant
industry and and those types of things. So it's very
difficult right now economically and also sort of socially for women.
(24:40):
Right I think the picture that you paint is one
of there's this really promising future where Gen Z and
millennials are really like those dozen the values of you know, collectivism,
but at the same time the present we seem to
be living in is not quite there. You know, we
recognize that women are really actual workers, but there's still
(25:01):
a gap from the president in future, and I'm curious
what would it take to bridge that. Well. I think
that's why this event is so remarkable. Um that COVID
is tragic as it has been, is a major dislocation.
And usually what happens when there are major dislocations that
that our attitude ships and sort of new beliefs that
(25:23):
emerge out of them. What's remarkable is that this is
a triple headed crisis, right. It's a public health crisis,
it's an economic crisis that is spreading out into understanding
of income inequality, and so you know, even things like
you know, Obamacare that was seen as so progressive maybe
two years ago, that looks now sort of like mainstream
(25:46):
right that people need to have some type of adequate healthcare.
So we are seeing full shifts into into more equality,
into sort of more thinking than that seems to be
taken hold with with larger groups of the population. And
what I think is exciting about the way the way
gen Z young men and women are thinking is that
(26:07):
they are looking at this as is sort of fundamental
moral issues, and I think that that that moral platform
could be a really interesting place where young conservatives and
young liberals could sort of come together and say, regardless
of our political differences and all of the way we
see the world, there are some fundamental tenants that make
us human and these are the things that we need
(26:28):
to focus on. And for college students, how can we
start reflecting the values, you know, these feminine values and
have them work together, um in just the clubs and
organizations that were part of maybe not yet a professional workplace. Yeah,
I mean, definitely taking action on campus, getting involved in programs,
(26:48):
taking advantage of this time. You know. One of the
things I found remarkable. I don't know what you guys think,
but we have far more access to our clients, to
people in the media, to people that we work with
now over these platforms, simply because it's convenient. You don't
waste as much time traveling. It's hard to do in
(27:10):
person meetings sometimes, and so I think there's just tremendous
opportunities for young people to use you know, Zoom and
teams and Google hangouts and all these awesome platforms to
get involved right to either you know, get involved on
a petition, to move on dot org, to get involved
in a charity. Um. You know, there's so many incredible
(27:31):
things that to be done, and I think that's a
big opportunity on campus. The other thing I'd say real
quickly is that business really needs young people. And I
firmly believe that human resources is really going to be
the innovation inside companies because company cultures are going to
(27:51):
be sort of the weapons differentiation right It's a war
on talent right now, and so so young people are
going to be using their vow. I used to judge
companies and say, hey, you know is this company? Does
it fit my value set? And so companies are going
to have to change to really focus on young, young
people and what they want from those value standpoint. And
(28:12):
if you look at something like the Business Roundtable, which
is a coalition of of organizations of companies, they finally
come out and said, you know, it's not just about
shareholder value, it's about stakeholder value. It's about having more
more of those types of things. So you're seeing business
as result, and it's all because the power of talent.
(28:33):
They need young people's talents. So those values are really
critical and after the two thousand nine financial crisis, you
also published another book called Spend Shift, How the post
crisis values revolution is changing the way we buy, sell,
and live. As we are in the midst of another crisis,
I'm curious if you feel any of those lessons still apply. Yeah.
(28:53):
We we were really kind of you know, Michael D'Antonio,
who's my co author. He's a pull enterprise winning reporter
from from Newsday and he works now at at CNN,
and he and I were just really interested in what
type of a crisis would spur, you know, a movement
to something better. And we started to really see that happening.
(29:15):
And one of the places we went where we really
saw it in our reporting was we went into inner
city Detroit. And this was in the middle of the crisis,
and basically Detroit downtown was indistinguishable from a place that
looked like it was in a war. You know, there
was nobody there, and yet in the middle of it,
we've met these entrepreneurs that were starting Detroit over and
(29:38):
they created this thing called the Detroit Declaration for the
entrepreneurs to support each other and to sort of rebuild.
And so I think that's very much this metaphor. I'm
very long on America. I'm very long on America's young people.
I think we've got tremendous opportunities to learn from this crisis,
to find our alience because you know, Americans are inherently optimistic,
(30:03):
and many people around the world optimistic, but there's something
about American ingenuity, entrepreneurialism. You know, what you two are
both doing is really hopeful and energetic, and I think
that's the thing that's sort of is going to drive
and feed and feed us forward. And that was really
what that book was all about, was doing that with
a sense of values and understanding that you know, there's
(30:25):
a values economy um that that is emerging. And that
book now is almost ten years old, and really we've
been really hardened to see how much business has moved
over the past decade towards that. That's amazing. For our
final question, we would love to know if you anticipate
any new cultural shifts or opportunities that will arise from COVID.
(30:46):
So we talked about the future of remote work, collectivism, culture,
and just this being so unique because it's an amalgamation
of many different issues just colliding at once and Also,
at the end of the day, how can we as
gen Z be ready for this change. That's a really
great question. I'm we're coming up on our six months
(31:06):
of data this next weekend, and we're gonna be taking
a look at back at what has changed and what hasn't.
Because one of the things the public opinion is that
you know it'll it'll expand and it will contract. We
always say people have an opinion until they change their minds,
and so things will sort of go back and forth.
So it's hard to predict too much into the future.
(31:27):
But I do believe there are major shifts in how
people will work. I think there's major shifts and where
people will live um and so that's going to impact
potentially cities and urban areas. But with that, I think
comes big opportunities for renaissance in in places that are
expensive and priced out right. So if real estate drops
(31:49):
in New York City, where I'm at today, how awesome
would that be for young people to come back in
and artists and and get ahold of revitalizing this city.
So those I think are really important. I also think
there's a major shift around empathy and understanding and gratitude.
I think people learned a lot as you talked about,
(32:09):
you know, with your with your siblings. People have learned
a lot about reflection on their relationships, you know, with
their spouses, with their parents, with their kids, with their friends.
And I think that ultimately there's going to be a
more of a closeness ironically, because we're social creatures, you know,
we haven't been able to hug for six months, we
have been able to see people, and I think that
(32:32):
that reappraisal of what makes us human and what makes
us really really tick as people is going to be
maybe a new form of spirituality in its own way
that's going to be really useful for us moving forward.
Thank you so much, John for being on the Secret
Syllabus and informing US college students about navigating the pandemic
(32:52):
as well as workforce equality and giving us hope for
our post crisis lives while giving us amazing stats um
as well, I'm own press. You knew all those off
the top of your head, but listeners that you can
learn more about John gersmad at John Gersma dot com
and the Harris Poll dot com, and of course check
out his book The Athena Doctrine. Thanks John, I am
(33:14):
so ready for the future. You know, when people used
to ask me what job or internship do you want?
I would never have a clear answer, and I would
actually joke. You know, the dream career I want doesn't
exist yet, and it was kind of a cop out then,
But right now I really feel it. The dream career
I want is one with flexibility, it's one with empathy.
(33:35):
It's one of the communities I care about, and it
is definitely one where I have the courage as a woman,
because growing up I didn't have that. But after this interview,
I am so ready to channel the inner Athena and me.
I love that. My takeaway from John is that now
is the time for gen z to step forward. Like
we are most familiar with technology, remote working, making money
(33:59):
from home and ex said dra so we need to
show up and help older generations with the tech world
and of course make away for ourselves to yes. Well,
thank you guys for checking us out today, and thank
you again to John Garzma for taking the time to
come on our podcast and share his wisdom. We are
your host, Katie. You can find me at Aloha Katie
(34:20):
x on Instagram and I'm Hannah. You can find me
at Miss Hannah Ashton on Instagram. The Secret Syllabus is
a production of The Female Quotion and I Heart Radio
and co produced by the Female Quotion and Wonder Media Network.
The f Q is committed to advancing equality and elevating
women from college campuses to the corner office. You can
find out more at www dot The Female Quotient dot com.
(34:44):
Hi guys, see you after class.
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